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<I> <$A> <#/>You can join them and do the cooking
<$B> <#/>Sammy has  <-_switch><+_switched> off your radio
<$C> <#/>Yeah you can sit
<$D> <#/>Oh You’re not supposed to have music with that
<$A> <#/>Now you guys can continue
<$C> <#/>What is it
<$?> <#/>What are we supposed to talk about by the way
<$?> <#/><ea/>Si my <ea/>ugali 
<$?> <#/>Tell us anything 
<$?> <#/>You know Sue you are so conscious It is so hard to just talk 
<$C> <#/>We want to talk about my <ea/>ugali and why men cook
<$A> <#/>Is it allowed 
<$C> <#/> Why should men cook
<$?> <#/> <ea/>Sasa we Jwan <ea/>si you ask us questions <#/>I think that time he was asking <ea/>akina Judy questions <#/><ea/>si <ea/>ndio 
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$A> <#/>No I wasn’t asking them questions
<$?> <#/>You were 'cause you
<$A> <#/>Okay those <#/>Those ones came 'cause Judy wanted to know so she was asking and I was asking her questions also
<$?> <#/>Oh my <#/>You better ask us questions
<$A> <#/>No gosh
<$?> <#/>You are people of very few words
<$A> <#/>No You <./>Y <-/>You just have to find something to discuss
<$?> <#/>Now discuss what <#/>The party was discussed now what can we discuss about 
<$C> <#/>Sammy 
<$?><#/><O/>
<$C> <#/>find some discussion 
<$?> <#/>Yeah let us talk 
<$C> <#/>You can talk
<$?> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/>I'm wondering just why men cook 
<$?> <#/>Why men cook 
<$C> <#/>Uh 
<$?> <#/> <ea/>Ati why men cook
<$?> <#/> They have to cook because they eat
<$C> <#/>Are they meant to cook really
<$?> <#/>Yeah <ea/>Kwani 
<$C> <#/>Why <#/>They don’t have soft fingers and such
<$?> <#/>You have come in with shoes
<$A> <#/>Uh Sorry people are not <#/>Oh yeah I saw a notice on the door  <#/>Oh I’m very sorry for that
<$?> <#/>Oh <ea/>pole sana<-/> 
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/><-/>Mhm So <ea/>si you talk 
<$A> <#/>Are you guys with Olivia in the same class
<$?> <#/>Sorry
<$?> <#/>No 
<$?> <#/>No 
<$?> <#/>She’s in same class with Judy <#/>And we are in the same class
<$C> <#/>Oh which one is TMS and which one is SOC 
<$?> <#/>TMS is her SOC is me 
<$C> <#/>And GPA
<$?> <#/>Oh uh you want to know the full whatever uh acronyms yeah
<$C> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$?> <#/>That's where the full whatever
<$C> <#/>No I know them
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>But I was wondering who is in GPA who is in SOC
<$?> <#/>It’s only Judy
<$?> <#/>Us we are SOC major
<$C> <#/>Oh okay
<$?> <#/>Yes but different minors
<$C> <#/>Do you mind closing your window or it will interfere with you again
<$?> <#/>Why <#/>Why
<$C> <#/>It may interfere with recording
<$?> <#/>Serious
<$C> <#/>I’m not sure but if you need it there is no problem
<$?> <#/>I wish the <O/> would keep quiet <#/>They are making so much noise 
<$C> <#/>Imagine I was in your place <#/>What do you call these things
<$?> <#/><./>Tho Those two of mites what are they <-_call><+_called> 
<$C> <#/>Oh the fleas
<$?> <#/>The fleas
<$C> <#/>The fleas yeah 
<$?> <#/>You didn't seal your whatever you're sealing
<$C> <#/>Yes I did but 
<$?> <#/>We did
<$C> <#/> I did but
<$?> <#/> What type did you use <#/>This one
<$C> <#/>No 
<$?> <#/>The masking tape
<$C> <#/>Yes but not the small one
<$?> <#/>Oh okay 
<$C> <#/>It is now fair so many around
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>So many
<$?> <#/>But you know those things I think they depend on the whatever the whether <#/>If it's hot they are in plenty <#/>If it's cold they are scarce
<$C> <#/>What the flees or the bugs
<$?> <#/>The flees I don’t know <#/>They hibernate on something
<$A> <#/>No but I think <ea/>si this time it means the birds have hatched 
<$?> <#/>No I don’t know because when it was cold those things were not there <#/>You remember the days we used to go to the bathroom and find those things <#/>You come with them from your bathroom <#/><O/> there were none <#/>They get into your hair and you are in problems
<$C> <#/>They get into your hair
<$?> <#/>Uh 
<$A> <#/>Are you serious 
<$?> <#/>But you know for guys you just wash
<$?> <#/>For us
<$?> <#/>For guys you just wash <#/>Now imagine like Flo's hair yeah <#/>If that thing just decides to go in it 
<$C> <#/>I know it can be very difficult
<$?> <#/>'Cause I remember that time I was in one hundred and one those things were in my room 
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$?> <#/>Those things were in my room <#/>So I hadn't plaited my hair
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$?> <#/>So I used to whatever <#/>They used to come in <#/>I had to wash and blow dry or just blow dry without washing 
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>You take to <#/>You take your hair to a blow drier
<$?> <#/>Yeah even if you have just done that one and they die
<$A> <#/>When you blow dry
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$?> <#/><-/>Mhm but that one is expensive 
<$A> <#/>Gosh
<$?> <#/>You just have to keep on
<$C> <#/>The way I can't put my head in that thing <#/>I would remove it before it <O/>
<$?> <#/>No don't that’s a drier <#/>Blow dry is first like a comb
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$?> <#/>A hot comb 
<$C> <#/>It is not that <./>ki machine that somebody uh 
<$?> <#/>The way that thing exploded on somebody’s head 
<$?> <#/>By the way another time I saw that thing exploded on somebody's head
<$A> <#/>Exploded 
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>The drier I don’t
<$?> <#/>Here
<$?> <#/>Yeah I don’t know what happened but <onom/>phoop <#/>That is how it went
<$A> <#/>Gosh 
<$?> <#/>You see somebody in the <-_>in the<-/> whatever in the drier
<$?> <#/>It was a short circuit 
<$?> <#/>I think so or those guys don't know how to operate those things
<$C> <#/>They just know how to put on and off
<$?> <#/>Off yeah <#/>And just to regulate 
<$?> <#/>They should go for training seriously
<$?> <#/>uh here this lady had a flat face
<$C> <#/>The one wearing specs
<$?> <#/>uh that one
<$C> <#/>Oh 
<$?> <#/>And then she looks like a <O/> whatever a <O/> <O/>
<$A> <#/>She is the one who won the uh
<$?> <#/>The MUSO 
<$C> <#/>She’s the one who won uh 
<$?> <#/>The MUSO
<$C> <#/>Uh the same many 
<$?> <#/>Is she the one
<$?> <#/>uh that was 
<$C> <#/>In
<$?> <#/> That was when I was in second year or third year
<$C> <#/> When
<$?> <#/>When we were in second year or third year 
<$?> <#/>Third year Was it third year or second year
<$?> <#/>Second <-/>second <-/>second year
<$?> <#/>There was no Lucy in third year 
<$?> <#/>There was no Lucy in third year
<$C> <#/>uh <ea/>si they could have refused the film
<$?> <#/>They were scared
<$C> <#/>They were scared those guys could have made some <O/>
<$A> <#/>Someone told me that she won something 
<$?> <#/>Who
<$A> <#/>Someone told me she won something
<$?> <#/>She won something like what
<$C> <#/>Some awards or what
<$A> <#/><./>Li
<$?> <#/>Gathoni
<$?> <#/>Perhaps those women things <#/>She’s always attending conferences by the way
<$?> <#/>Which one 
<$A> <#/>The <-/>ee the lipstick is it lipstick 
<$C> <#/>There was no competition
<$?> <#/>No I don't think
<$A> <#/>They were giving awards to for people who use their products
<$?> <#/>Where
<$A> <#/>And she won 
<$?> <#/>Here <./>i or in Nairobi
<$A> <#/>Here <-/>here <-/>here <-/>here <-/>here on the campus here
<$?> <#/>Those guys have never come <-_this><+_these> <#/>sides 
<$A> <#/>Somebody was just <-/>just making fun that she’s one of the people who put a lot of lipsticks
<$?> <#/>uh Sammy
<$C> <#/>I’m there
<$?> <#/>The degree
<$C> <#/>uh
<$?> <#/>Here I was fat
<$?> <#/> This guy by the way <#/>What’s the name of this guy <#/>We’re in the same group with him
<$?> <#/>Mwaniki
<$?> <#/>Mwaniki is not a man 
<$?> <#/>Just wait you know <#/>This guy it's like we were in another GPA class so it's like we were divided into groups <#/>Then this guy when it came time for presenting he took off and he was the guy who was supposed to present
<$A> <#/>Did he
<$?> <#/>This guy uh <#/>Where is he <#/>This one did you want his cheeks to shake in class
<$?> <#/>Yes his chubby cheeks 
<$C> <#/>There <-/>there is another guy in class <#/>He is a little fat <#/>We had a presentation for population economics <-/>hoho the cheeks shook 
<$?> <#/>Who is this  <#/>'Cause in your class guys are very few
<$A> <#/>Which group was this now
<$?> <#/> That's TMS class <#/>In this TMS I used to think he <O/>
<$?> <#/> This man disappointed us Wanyoike
<$A> <#/>Okay you know this guy is coming to spray my room today
<$?> <#/>They came
<$A> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/>Can you stay in your room <#/>The smell is usually very bad
<$A> <#/>They sprayed in the morning
<$?> <#/>Oh Okay 
<$A> <#/>Uh but I found them throwing my things all over the place 
<$?> <#/>But you’re supposed to clear your things
<$A> <#/> I don’t know 
<$?> <#/> When they are spraying
<$?> <#/>You were not there
<$A> <#/>No
<$?> <#/>Wairimu was there
<$A> <#/>Yeah <#/>But they had told me to clear <#/>I didn’t <#/>I didn’t know exactly what they meant by clearing
<$?> <#/>The utensils
<$A> <#/>Yeah those ones were not there 
<$?> <#/>Oh yeah your bed exactly  <#/>They spray the bed
<$?> <#/>They <-/>they <-/>they spray so much that it's liquid <ea/>kabisa 
<$A> <#/>Uh Uh 
<$?> <#/>Me I can't imagine having to sleep in a bed that's sprayed
<$A> <#/>They really sprayed
<$C> <#/>There was a time they sprayed my room <#/>I stayed for two days without sleeping there
<$A> <#/>The smell is too much 
<$C> <#/>The thing is too much <#/>You can’t sleep
<$?> <#/>You open the window 
<$A> <#/>Just open there is no problem <#/>No problem <#/>It’s no big deal okay 
<$?> <#/>Spray
<$A> <#/>But I’ve realised the bugs are not as many here
<$?> <#/>I find them so many 
<$A> <#/>No
<$?> <#/>Oh this place 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>Now they are quiet <#/>At six five by the way they are usually awake
<$?> <#/>In the morning
<$?> <#/>Yeah As soon as 
<$?> <#/>Even a few minutes ago they were making so much noise you feel like they might fall there yeah
<$?> <#/>Nyakima
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>Just come we are here <#/>There is no noise so don't come and start making noise
<$?> <#/><-/>Ah now why are you guys locking the door 
<$?> <#/>Uh Come in 
<$A> <#/>Oh the door was locked
<$?> <#/>Come in 
<$?> <#/>I saw him today 
<$?> <#/>You saw him today  <#/>By the way he's been cleaning the corridors <#/>He's been slashing
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/><-/>Mhm Seriously
<$C> <#/><-/>Mhm is it
<$?> <#/>By the way have you seen him slashing some other day over here
<$C> <#/>
<$?> <#/>You my neighbour <ea/>sasa
<$?> <#/>Where were you going to 
<$?> <#/><-/>Ah
<$?> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Okay sit down and talk
<$?> <#/>No You don’t have to like it 
<$?> <#/>Uh uh I hate it <#/>That's why I don't want to listen to it
<$?> <#/>But you now you are already here
<$?> <#/>So this is specimen A
<$?> <#/>See you talk
<$?> <#/> There’s nothing to talk about
<$A> <#/> There <-/>There <-/>There is a problem I have with them
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>You see <ea/>Ajaja <ea/>kumbe <#/>You guys are just boring this way 
<$?> <#/>No but you should talk
<$?> <#/>How long are we supposed to talk
<$?> <#/>Don't mind
<$?> <#/>Maybe I'm supposed to talk 
<$?> <#/><name/> should be talking more even 
<$?> <#/>And the way Jwan is looking at people
<$?> <#/>I’m not a man of many words
<$?> <#/>Prompting
<$?> <#/> Let me see that photo
<$?> <#/>Just TMS photo
<$?> <#/>So when are you going to  going there
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm I don’t know but it's this Friday
<$?> <#/>At night
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$?> <#/>The party
<$?> <#/>The bus is taking you guys
<$?> <#/> at Sirikwa 
<$?> <#/> A dinner costing three hundred shillings
<$?> <#/>The bus is taking you guys
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/>and back
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$?> <#/>For those who will want to break a leg 
<$?> <#/>They shall not be allowed in only sixty people
<$?> <#/>No <-/>no uh uh uh You did not get my question  Those who want to remain behind and dance
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm it’s a Friday 
<$?> <#/>It’s a Friday I mean 
<$?> <#/>Oh I guess those ones can go and hang  as long as you don't leave the party to go and hang  But I can't leave a party to go and hang I first have to eat before I go and hang 
<$?> <#/>No You know people are looking for employers 'cause those are prospective employers
<$?> <#/>Yeah The guys are coming over
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$?> <#/>But you know  they should have invited enough people
<$?> <#/>Which guys 
<$?> <#/>Are they coming 
<$?> <#/>Are they responding 
<$?> <#/>MDs from several companies
<$?> <#/>Are they coming <#/>Are they  <-/>they coming
<$C> <#/>Yeah ten of them have already confirmed
<$?> <#/>Like which companies
<$C> <#/>The companies like East African etcetera
<$A> <#/>Who is <-_>who is<-/> paying for the dinner 
<$?> <#/>They pay for themselves 
<$C> <#/>You <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You pay three hundred and then the university will subsidise with something small
<$?> <#/>Now us people like okay GPA 
<$?> <#/>Just leave alone that even guys of USIU who do business <./>admin all those business <./>admin it's like their course
<$C> <#/>It’s just like a course 
<$?> <#/> I don't think we <-/>aha 
<$?> <#/>But I <-/>I think we do more courses than them <#/>But it's more of less that is what people know 
<$C> <#/>There <-/>There is also this course called management studies <#/>It's also done by some of the institutions
<$?> <#/>Yeah this is your
<$?> <#/>And I think <./>tha uh <./>th that’s what we mostly do management studies  So we are going to sell ourselves
<$?> <#/>You have to talk nicely Talk nicely 
<$A> <#/>No they are going to market themselves 
<$?> <#/>Africans will just say they are going to sell themselves
<$?> <#/>It’s <-/>It’s just a direct translation 
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>You know to market yourself is a broad lasting thing
<$A> <#/>East African industries will take a few of you definitely
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>They always have some jobs
<$?> <#/>But you see the problem like uh these guys who cleared last year they are going for an interview yeah for management trainees at EAI <#/>Then you are asked 'cause you know guys from Nai are close to them that's <O/> guys yeah <#/>And <-/>and the guys will tell they don't BA they don't know <#/>So these guys go and ask <ea/>si you <O/> there to be interviewed <#/>Those guys will come and asked who has done <ea/>sijui mass project <O/> project Moi guys and Eger guys are like what are those you know <#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/><#/> </I> 
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<I> <$A> <#/>But I was told some <-_interview><+_interviews> were being conducted 
<$?> <#/>Yeah they conducted interviews by the way 
<$?> <#/>That’s what I’m saying <#/>See normally they go for an interview and of course the people who will pass will pass and the guys who are taken are taken and you <-/>you fail or you are not taken that's what cuts <#/>As in generally they might not even pick and after all this they might not even pick or elect someone from Moi uh because they have a wide variety of people <#/>Are you hearing me <#/>Ask <name/> <#/>She’ll tell you
<$?> <#/>She got picked
<$?> <#/>No they were picked for the interview <#/>They were the shortlisted guys but you see the interview is just preliminary as in theatre <#/>Now they are going to sit down <O/> the panel and staff if you are not <O/> they want eight as in generally from <O/> Nairobi 
<$C> <#/>Who told you
<$?> <#/>Ask the people who went for the interview themselves <#/>They will tell you the story
<$?> <#/>Even Pascal was there  was there by the way <#/>Yeah she was there <#/>They were dressed <#/>Even some were carrying purses 
<$?> <#/>For the interview
<$?> <#/><O/> guys were really threaded 
<$?> <#/>But you see there was <O/> competition 
<$C> <#/>No you don’t take chances 
<$?> <#/>You know <ea/>unga <ea/>yangu is spoilt 
<$C> <#/>
<$?> <#/>You check for the expiry date
<$?><#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>It is expired but I wonder whether it's 
<$?> <#/>No ninety-six 
<$C> <#/>Oh let me see
<$?> <#/>See ninety-six
<$?> <#/>January 
<$?> <#/>Oh it's January
<$?> <#/>January
<$?> <#/>Uh 
<$?> <#/>Try <O/> <-_>Try <O/><-/>
<$?> <#/>Try what uh uh
<$A> <#/>Now what shows that it’s expired 
<$?> <#/> In fact if it had <#/>If it was really bad you would see those threads 
<$A> <#/> No it’s not bad <#/>It is not bad <#/>I don't think it is 
<$?> <#/>I once got some with worms 
<$?> <#/>What
<$?> <#/>I once bought <ea/>unga and found worms <#/>I just  <#/>I took it back to the shop immediately
<$?> <#/>Here <-/>Here
<$?> <#/>No in at home
<$C> <#/>There’s a <-/>There’s <-/>a time it was like that in the whole country
<$?> <#/>But you can’t die <#/>Once I bought <ea/>uji mix and made porridge and we drank and we didn't die  <#/><O/> Jwan tell me <#/>Do you know how to cook this <ea/>nyuka <ea/>kal
<$C> <#/>Uh yes
<$?> <#/>You are supposed to boil 
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/>Wait <-/>Wait <#/>You are supposed to boil 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>Yeah it is supposed to boil 
<$?> <#/>Is it supposed to boil
<$A> <#/>When
<$?> <#/>Is it supposed to boil
<$?> <#/>When you’re cooking out you cook that <ea/>uji
<$?> <#/>Wait 
<$?> <#/>How
<$?> <#/>Oh how <#/>And she was telling us if it boils it will <ea/>katika so it will become so light
<$?> <#/>How does it taste 
<$A> <#/>Yeah it’s <-/>it's <ea/>wimbi
<$?> <#/>It’s not supposed to boil <#/>Even my granny <#/>I used to see her
<$C> <#/>Oh I know <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> the one which is not supposed to boil   
<$?> <#/> 
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>How is it called
<$C> <#/> That one you are not supposed to boil
<$?> <#/>You just boil like <O/> then you remove it 
<$C> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Uh I’m surprised your mother doesn't complain 
<$A> <#/>But it's still the same 
<$?> <#/>But it usually boils
<$A> <#/>I'm not sure
<$?> <#/>Uh it is not supposed to boil <#/>Hi Nicky
<$?> <#/>Hello
<$A> <#/>Hello <#/>How are you
<$?> <#/>Fine <#/>Thank you
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm was there <-_>was there<-/> another project left
<$?> <#/>I don’t think so <#/>This one is the last one
<$?> <#/>I came to visit <#/>Oh you want that
<$?> <#/>I was in another group
<$?> <#/>You were doing some work
<$?> <#/>Which group was that
<$?><#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>And you are going to them
<$?> <#/>Yes
<$?> <#/>Nicky who in particular invited you
<$?> <#/>Is it somebody I know 
<$?> <#/>Not somebody you know
<$?> <#/>I know He’s not a <-/>a technique 
<$?> <#/>I know 
<$?> <#/>Guys why are you on that chick  like that
<$?> <#/>Oh She She’s <-/>She’s blushing quick and then she stays longer
<$?> <#/>No don’t know the guy  Already I’m a still 
<$?> <#/>You are hanging in between somewhere
<$?> <#/>Uh uh 
<$?> <#/>That thing called chemistry 
<$?> <#/>Olivia
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/>What are you going to do in future
<$?> <#/>I want to become a counsellor
<$?> <#/>Join Carlo
<$?> <#/>uh
<$C> <#/>Counsellor
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Counsellor as in advising people or like a mayor 
<$?> <#/>It's supposed to be a <-/>a counsellor or a <O/> 
<$C> <#/>So you want to become a counsellor or a councillor
<$?> <#/>A counsellor
<$?> <#/>mayor
<$?> <#/>Counsellor for counselling people like the woman
<$?> <#/>I just want to be <#/>I know why she’s asking me that 'cause 
<$A> <#/>Judy
<$?> <#/>Judy
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/> Why do ask me that
<$A> <#/>Prepare your <ea/>chapatis well because I’m coming <#/>I'm not going anywhere 
<$?> <#/>You want to be part of this congregation
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>so please
<$?> <#/>Multitude
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>In direct translation <ea/>si <#/>That's what they say 
<$C> <#/> in <ea/>Jango 
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>There is nothing like that
<$?> <#/>I don’t have that 
<$?> <#/>
<$A> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/>What is that now 
<$?> <#/><$?> <#/><$C> <#/><-/>aha 
<$A> <#/>Yeah when you are putting water for cooking
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Like this story <#/>I heard a guy who went to the <O/> this <O/> <ea/>akasema <ea/>hapana <#/>Now this babe thinks this <ea/>ugali will be enough <#/>Then he saw another drum there <#/><O/> this thing had <#/>These guys used to slaughter some animals so they put the blood there <#/>So this guy thought this was a drum of water <#/>By that time the babe had gone just outside <ea/>kidogo <#/>He scooped and just poured the thing <#/>So the babe was making <ea/>ugali uh <#/>It was red and <-/clotty> <O/> <#/>That's the time she knew that this guy 
<$?> <#/>He makes these thatched houses whereby you used these
<$C> <#/>The lamps
<$?> <#/>these <-/>these not even candles these funny lamps 
<$?> <#/>kerosene 
<$C> <#/> we call them candles
<$A> <#/> <ea/>ati what
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Like a candle 
<$?> <#/>She took 
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm I didn’t see the one
<$?> <#/>She used the red basin
<$?> <#/>I used this <#/>I’m actually using it 
<$?> <#/>Okay <#/>So the relationship just stopped 'cause the guy was greedy
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Why did you say that 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>Why did you find that 
<$C> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/>That Kiswahili saying
<$A> <#/>Yeah 
<$C> <#/>That one I got  through my experience
<$?> <#/> You are a geography teacher 
<$C> <#/>I had a geography teacher who when he uses uh one uh <#/>What do you call those things 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Those things
<$?> <#/>Proverbs
<$C> <#/>Those <./>ma proverbs
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Then he just misplaces them
<$A> <#/>
<$C> <#/>Like now let's say you go to Nairobi 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>And maybe you're messed up
<$?> <#/>There’s not even a relevance
<$C> <#/>And it does not apply completely
<$A> <#/>Okay 
<$?> <#/>It's a very difficult one
<$?> <#/>We used to cram those things
<$?> <#/>Leave alone cramming Mulao and their explanations 
<$?> <#/>We actually <#/>We knew what they were the saying <#/>But you had to know the meaning
<$?> <#/>And even write a story about it 
<$?> <#/>You know uh <#/>You had to know you had to <ea/>jua 
<$A> <#/>Yeah they are very interesting
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$A> <#/> Basic knowledge <#/>Knowledge for knowledge’s sake <#/>It’s true like 
<$?> <#/>But I think I think what we used to do in Seco e used to learn <#/>Here we are not learning  <#/>Sure here <O/> your marks and you seriously here we’re not learning
<$C> <#/>No <-/>No <-/>No But Uh uh <#/>Yeah <#/>No it is true 
<$?> <#/>No
<$C> <#/> The way I used to read in Seco <#/>Me I used to read those things
<$?> <#/> Let me tell you <#/>Let me tell you why you’re learning whatever you’re learning <#/>'Cause you <-/>you do something which really occupies your mind and you are really required a lot of thinking like accounts you ours it's <O/><ea/>si I'll get this mark in this CAT or something <-/>something like that <#/>Us we don't keep something in the head
<$C> <#/>Application us guys have to apply a lot
<$?> <#/>Us we have no continuation by the way 'cause it's like whatever you do this semester just ends 
<$?> <#/>Do you apply your GPA
<$?> <#/>Well maybe <O/> administration but that is for people who will be in those public offices
<$?> <#/>You are not going to be there
<$?> <#/><ea/>Si I'm a counsellor
<$C> <#/>What grade do you <$?> <#/>You remember the <ea/>kanini you've just done now 
<$?> <#/>Sexual harassment <#/>uh guys today the best topic that people would have wanted to go on until the end of the semester <#/>People have come up with their own ideas <#/>Lakini how can boys who’ve gone to school think like that Uh
<$?> <#/>What are they saying
<$C> <#/>What were they saying 
<$?> <#/>I mean there <-/>there are obvious things like for example this story of <-/provocativeness> or you are dressed provocatively <#/>You it keeps coming up <ea/>ati you know that chick was she dressed provocatively but there are obvious things for example this story of uh that chick was raped because she dressed provocatively but it's all in the mind <#/>If I have dressed I mean I wouldn't wear something that is not decent you know <#/>So long as I'm dressed <ea/>i I <ea/>jua I'm decent yeah even if it's minis <#/>People wear minis please yeah 
<$C> <#/>What about if it is not decent
<$?> <#/>But it’s you <O/> you
<$?> <#/>Are you an animal  that if you see a lady’s legs you just feel 
<$?> <#/> No <./>e <./>e exactly that is what the teacher said <#/>It is the animal instinct that takes over because really you are provoked as in you've seen and it's like okay those are nice legs <#/><onom/>ooh she is 
<$?> <#/>Just appreciate
<$?> <#/>Appreciate and move on <#/>You can admire and that’s it <#/>Why do you go out of your way to grab her and rape her and then you say she provoked me and someone came up with this idea that this chick who was raped in Mombasa she was a Muslim in a bikini and you know the way bikinis are  <#/>What would you say about that <#/>Was she provocative really no  <#/>What was wrong
<$C> <#/>What <-/>What about <#/>What about women who rape men
<$?> <#/>Okay there was all that they said 
<$C> <#/>No you have <#/>You never <-_>You never<-/> seen this movie <-_>this movie<-/> called The Disclosure <#/>It shows how women when they are given power what they can do <#/>This lady was atop somebody <#/>She was an executive manager somewhere and then the guy
<$?> <#/>She had a guy a small guy 
<$C> <#/> uh and the guy 
<$?> <#/>But that is not really rape 
<$C> <#/>It's just power <#/>If they are given power they also be raping men 
<$?> <#/>But let me tell you the woman by the way she'll be in that top position with the other workers you know what she will do she will make advances at you <#/>She will make you know <#/>She will not just come and tell you come in dress you and say or rape you know this way rape <-/rape> <-/rape> 
<$?> <#/>We women we have that shame <#/>We are not like guys have no shame and guys you see like I don't know 
<$C> <#/>It also depends on the character of somebody 
<$?> <#/>Can I tell you what the guy the woman by the way she’ll be <#/>The women if given power they won't just come and rape you 
<$C> <#/>Yeah I <#/>It’s <-/>It’s <-/>It’s <-/>It’s because of culture <#/>But if it changes such that women are given now <O/> power I tell they will be on the street here they will be picking men like 
<$?> <#/>No <#/>But you see 
<$C> <#/> It’s only that they’re not as strong <O/>
<$?> <#/>No but you see <#/>What is wrong with picking <#/>Listen  There is nothing wrong with picking men <#/>What we are saying is big deal but the rape of a woman and the rape of a man are all different things <#/>You know why by the time this man is raped he morally has more or less succumbed <#/>You get because you see 
<$?> <#/> And a lady cannot rape a man by the way <#/>A lady cannot rape a man 
<$?> <#/>Yeah like in America  <#/>It’s like girls of our age have guns yeah 
<$?> <#/>People anywhere have guns
<$?> <#/>In case you just try to do something she'll just shoot you <#/>She doesn't care
<$?> <#/><name/> said that what about a case where if people have guns then a woman can hold a man and unleash <-/>unleash <-/>unleash at gunpoint <#/>But honestly okay even the teacher said
<$?> <#/>How
<$?> <#/>At gunpoint okay I’m holding a gun to a man's head all right and I'm telling him to undress now it's definite that everything will shrink to use his words <#/>Let's face it one hand is holding a gun okay <#/>How will they do it
<$A> <#/>I <./>tho <-/>I thought you were going to ask so that he can demonstrate  
<$?> <#/>I mean no <#/>I’m saying no I mean <#/>You’ve undressed <#/>So how are you am I going to rape you <#/>No you explain
<$C> <#/>No you see now <#/>You see what happens <#/>Now okay here is the gun <#/>Okay somebody undress
<$?> <#/>Yeah undress
<$C> <#/>Yeah undress <#/>Now he throws away the gun and says he 
<$?> <#/>It's whatever it’s a strong guy yeah 

S1A003K
<I> <$?> <#/>Yeah it will just be okay <#/>But a man <-_>a man<-/> <-_>a man<-/> a big man who knows what's going to happen to him at gunpoint <#/>You see that time you are in two different <-_situation><+_situations> <#/>Somebody is forcing you to do something that you can't in that case you will switch off <#/>But a kid <#/>There is no <-_>There is no<-/> way
<$C> <#/>The same way <#/>The same thing
<$?> <#/>There’s no threat <-_>There’s no threat<-/>  <#/>No threat at all
<$C> <#/>There are threats no <#/>There are threats <-_>There are threats<-/> <#/>Some <-/>some <-/>some of these kids <-_>Some of these kids<-/> are just carried by the maids <ea/>na <ea/>usiseme <#/>No it's true
<$?> <#/> In fact can I tell you something that normally happens one for a maid to do such a thing <#/><O/> it's like your sister you know it's someone they have <AmE/>gotten used to <#/>That is another point you have to take into account <#/>You see it's not <ea/>ati a maid a neighbour there who comes and rapes a kid of this house all right
<$C> <#/>Sometimes it happens anyway
<$?> <#/>No but more often than not it doesn't happen  <#/>It's the maid of the house <#/>You know by the time the maid is getting to do these things on the boy he may not even think it's wrong let me tell you okay because 
<$?> <#/> The kid is so excited 
<$C> <#/><ea/>Yaani and <-/>and <-/>and you rape some boy and she doesn't feel it's wrong
<$?> <#/>The lady will feel it's wrong but the kid wouldn't know what's happening
<$?> <#/> I’m not saying it's wrong but the kid will know what is happening because you can't 
<$C> <#/>Now <#/>No I’m taking a case whereby you know it's not just very small a boy like that maybe somebody like maybe standard four
<$?> <#/>uh
<$?> <#/>Even that is still a kid
<$C> <#/>Yeah He’s a still a kid <#/>He’s still a kid but when somebody is in standard four like when I was in standard four  that undressed like that so a boy like that one <O/> that one <ea/>ni <ea/>sawa now the maid gets in there
<$?> <#/>Take a case where it's the maid who bathes the boy
<$?> <#/> What if it’s the maid who washes the boy
<$C> <#/>The boy has faked an age whereby just wash yourself that time the maid gets in  <#/>In that case is true 
<$?> <#/>Uh Let me tell you those ones happen to kids who are spoiled because the maid knows uh <ea/>mazee this one I'm going to wash him
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>And before a maid actually in such she must really know there is a maid in our place not really our house but in the estate <#/>This girl <#/>There were two boys in the house <#/>She used to fondle the two <ea/>nyonyo you know  fondle <-/>fondle and then the kids they didn't know it was just normal 
<$?> <#/>It was just normal until then
<$?> <#/>Until one time the mother of those kids came in all right  and then the woman comes in and 
<$?> <#/>About what age were they
<$?> <#/>They were small six years old about eight years old <#/>So when she came in she is the one who caught her in the act okay and of course she noticed <#/>Let me tell you those kids now when they were being asked you know  is when they kept now saying by the way they spilled everything oh she does this and this oh in fact she could tell them  and then where on her <O/> you know at she is feeling sick 
<$?> <#/>It's good they don’t know what they are doing
<$?> <#/>Yeah you see
<$?> <#/>And let me tell you they had apparently had done that on and on and on so you see like that kind of maid she could even rape those kids <ea/>ana <O/> do this <#/>Yeah it's rape but you see the kids were not bothered because they don't know 
<$C> <#/>Now me I had you know the issue of a maid when we talked about shrinking of a man when <O/>
<$?> <#/>But if he is an adolescent or aspiring adolescent he <./>th those mechanisms might just you know
<$?> <#/>go off
<$A> <#/>go off or go on
<$?> <#/>Oh <#/>At gunpoint <O/> you are there
<$?> <#/> they at gunpoint <ea/>lakini the treatment will be just like that of a kid 
<$C> <#/> They will go off at gunpoint
<$?> <#/>But surprisingly enough even at gunpoint I hear they can still let them up 
<$?> <#/>Who told you this 
<$?> <#/>Some men
<$?> <#/> Okay <#/>Uh Olivia just like you by the way <O/> it's like put yourself in that situation somebody 
<$?> <#/>Guys A rapist he will let it up because if his work is raping he might even have it up all the time really 
<$?> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Who was <#/>Which topic was it you guys were discussing I mean
<$?> <#/>Sexual harassment in the public and private sector
<$?> <#/>But does it usually have to go so far to be sexual harassment  <#/>Even that touching of you are just passing
<$?> <#/> No just insisting on a date insisting on a date making phone calls and telling people weird things you know <#/>That is sexual harassment <#/>It’s not really the <#/>By the way the physical could be very minimal <#/>What they actually do to her you know could be minimal but just what you suggest looking at her suggestively you know looking winking those things flirting with people <#/>That is all sexual harassment
<$C> <#/>And it's so common
<$?> <#/>So the teacher decided we are being taught especially the men in our class
<$?> <#/>Yes they need to be told
<$?> <#/>So that they do not go out there and do this 
<$?> <#/>and do the same
<$C> <#/>Now they should tell both of them 
<$?> <#/>But let me tell you 
<$C> <#/>I think those miniskirts is harassment also  so it should 
<$?> <#/>But <O/> let me ask you <#/>Let me ask you  where is <O/> it coming now in the city <ea/>ama
<$?> <#/> If you do not have self-control over yourself then it's your problem
<$C> <#/> No <-/>No you <#/>The thing is you are harassed
<$?> <#/>Let me ask you Why <-/>Why is it coming now <#/>In the sixties our mothers used to wear these skirts wait <-/>wait
<$C> <#/>They used to harass the men then 
<$?> <#/>Wait No <#/>How come they were <./>no <./>no not raped then 
<$?> <#/> By the way morals as now 
<$C> <#/>No there were sexual harassment  because you are saying this whatever is sexual harassment
<$?> <#/>No look at our tradition <#/>People used to wear next to nothing even in South Africa they still wear that just small skirts and nothing
<$C> <#/>So now okay now <#/>What is sexual harassment then
<$?> <#/>You guys you have no self-control  you see
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/> No self-control <#/>We have
<$?> <#/>But I told you I put on that mini  by the way they even go to an extent of tearing it you know that means you can't control yourself because what you are seeing is not you want to see something more than that
<$?> <#/> If your eyes <#/>Yeah Yeah 
<$C> <#/>No <#/>Okay now <#/>Uh you see now <-/>now <#/>You are <-_>You are<-/> telling me about rape <#/>Us guys were talking about sexual harassment <#/>By the way what have you said what is sexual harassment 
<$?> <#/>It’s It is <#/>It involves from touching commenting doing the real act without  consent from the victim you know
<$?> <#/> making passes at the victim without you know you are unwelcome but
<$C> <#/>Now the <-/>the <-/>the psychological feeling of it 
<$?> <#/>That does not come in my dear  <#/>Forget about psychological problems
<$C> <#/>It is 
<$?> <#/>It isn’t 
<$C> <#/>It is <ea/>kama a phone call is psychological  it is just something that you
<$?> <#/>It is not psychological  because you we talk <#/>Let me tell you
<$?> <#/>It’s physical
<$C> <#/>It's one <O/>
<$?> <#/>No <#/>It is by the way you could call me and say Hi my dear How are you <#/>That's it you could call me and tell me please can I have a date with you that is harassing me if saying hello to me how can you be <./>psycholo <-/>no <-/>no <-/>no <#/>That is not psychological
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>So what is psychological
<$?> <#/>But you know <#/>Can I tell you something <#/>The psychological aspect of it you know the you in you as in you deal with it okay <#/>Now if you see a mini-skirt and straight away you think <-/>mhm straight away your mind your evil mind the animal instinct in you is taking control because you would like by the way you see more and to see what is beneath that skirt
<$C> <#/> By the way <#/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <#/>Now I disagree with you <#/>I disagree with you uh
<$?> <#/> You see a lady in mini-skirt <#/>It’s like you already classify that lady as an object <#/>That’s an object  and what's in the object is what you want
<$C> <#/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <#/>It's what you see 
<$?> <#/>That is what you get 
<$C> <#/>Yeah uh No
<$?> <#/>Not what you want to see
<$C> <#/>Now you’ve seen <#/>You’ve seen somebody uh somebody in a mini-skirt 
<$?> <#/>What you see is what you get 
<$C> <#/>So you guys are not giving me time uh  <#/>You’ve <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You’ve seen a lady in a mini-skirt okay <#/>And you know of course we are mature personally you know already <O/> that one now you are harassing me because now I know what those ones are meant for you know
<$?> <#/> What are they meant for
<$?> <#/>Meant for what
<$C> <#/>You see <#/>It's the husband who is supposed to see these thighs you know not just anybody else <#/>You know these my thighs my <slang/>boobs are for the husband to see <ea/>sasa <#/>If somebody else sees them then that is harassment
<$?> <#/> Sammy Let me ask you a question <#/>Where guys and babes swim together is harassment there <#/>You tell me
<$C> <#/>No 
<$?> <#/>Cause you see now everything by the way <#/>You see almost everything Why 
<$C> <#/>It’s the <-_>It’s the<-/> occasion
<$?> <#/>Everything is an occasion
<$?> <#/>No Someone can't wear a mini like that at daytime
<$?> <#/> Can you tell me what is wrong with wearing a decent mini-skirt whatever to work official you look in fact they look <O/> very tough
<$?> <#/> No I <-/>I know the minis that you have in mind I know the minis that you have in mind <#/>It’s not the one I’m talking about 
<$?> <#/> I’m not having a mental mini here or here with thigh sticking out
<$?> <#/>You look very decent
<$C> <#/> Yeah <#/>Then Me <#/>That's harassment 
<$?> <#/>The one in a <O/> <O/>
<$C> <#/>Now that one becomes a different case all the same  <#/>They are different circumstances
<$?> <#/> Okay leave alone that <#/>Okay <-/>okay just <-/>just
<$C> <#/>Those are very different circumstances
<$?> <#/>Okay <#/>If you insist <#/>Let me just correct <./>cor <-/>correct you <#/>If you insist <O/> people wear minis okay in the instances where an old grandmother woman who is eighty years old is raped by some psycho even her she was wearing mini <#/>Even her she was very provocative according to Sammy because that is what you are saying
<$C> <#/>Because of what she is wearing
<$?> <#/>And let me tell you  does she look nice
<$C> <#/> Even a kid who doesn't <O/> is raped
<$?> <#/>You want to tell me that man saw those withered thighs she wore you see a granny is wearing something <O/> the withered thighs just provoked him to go and rape her
<$C> <#/>That’s why okay <#/>That’s why I said it depends on the occasion and the situation  that someone is in
<$?> <#/><./>Le Let’s put it this way <#/>Sammy let me ask you <#/>Tell me 
<$?> <#/> That shows if you get so excited because of just seeing thighs that shows you have just adjusted your mind to the rape 'cause by the way you see those thighs are normal
<$C> <#/> You know it becomes <-_>it becomes<-/> normal yeah 
<$?> <#/>You see in abroad how comes babe and you see
<$C> <#/>It is with time <#/>It is with time <#/>No <-/>No  <#/>There is nothing like that
<$?> <#/> No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <#/>Let me tell you that is nothing 
<$C> <#/>That is nothing because they have been used to it  <#/>They have been used to it
<$?> <#/>You get 'cause <-/>'cause
<$?> <#/> You have better get used to it 
<$C> <#/>No Yeah T<#/>o get used to it now you have to change adjust to change 
<$?> <#/>How do we change you by wearing long skirts <#/>How do we change you by not wearing <O/> 
<$?> <#/> <-/>By <-/>By <-/>By <-/>By the time it changes because  we will have raped enough people
<$?> <#/> But let me ask you <#/>Okay <-/>Okay <-/>Okay <#/>That shows you guys are weak because 
<$C> <#/>Us guys are not used
<$?> <#/>Us guys <-/>us <-/>guys can see you in shorts and nothing happens <#/>It's normal 
</I>
S1A004K
<I> <$A> <#/>You know it is long since I saw Jackie <#/>When was the last time I saw Jackie <#/>That evening the evening of the <#/>There was so much then <O/>
<$B> <#/>You people <ea/>kwani what had you talked you know <#/>What had you talked with Jackie
<$C> <#/>When
<$B> <#/>That evening <#/>There was something I didn’t know you people here discussed
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Is it 
<$B> <#/>Why was Jackie insisting so much that I should come and pick you <&/>lexeme
<$A> <#/>I thought he was supposed to be in that party 
<$B> <#/>Yes but it was abnormal <#/>I mean it was unlike Jackie to do such a thing to insist so much <ea/>yaani <ea/>mpaka started 
<$A> <#/>No but you see last time you disappointed us and so Jackie did not want this other uh function to go without our presence being felt <#/>She was simply being a good lady 
<$B> <#/><-/>Aih Me I don’t know <ea/>lakini I was suspicious 
<$C> <#/>Is it 
<$B> <#/>Yeah  even Peggy was suspicious <#/>Why can <#/>It’s unlike Jackie to insist this much 
<$C> <#/>Who is Peggy
<$B> <#/>Anne
<$C> <#/>Oh okay <-/>okay <-/>okay <-/>okay <-/>okay 
<$B> <#/>You know we normally call her Peggy not Anne
<$C> <#/>What is her full name 
<$B> <#/>Anne
<$C> <#/>Anne who Anne
<$B> <#/><name/>
<$C> <#/>Oh
<$A> <#/>Peggy’s short form <name/>
<$B> <#/>No Peggy 
<$C> <#/>What does Peggy mean
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si just a name 
<$C> <#/>So she’s Anne Peggy <name/>
<$B> <#/>No she I don’t know <#/>It is her father who named her Peggy <#/>The way you can just love your daughter and just give her a name 
<$C> <#/>A nickname 
<$B> <#/>But there are people who I know are called Peggy
<$C> <#/>Yeah that’s why I’m wondering <#/>Okay like we’re calling my boy Bobo and it's like everybody knows him by that name in fact nobody knows his real name and it just came up when he was a kid and he was doing <ea/>bobo you know the way kids behave <-/>eh <#/>So could hers have originated from a similar source 
<$B> <#/>No maybe she was just a sweet little girl and the dad decided it's Peggy
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>So Let’s go back to Friday I hope 
<$B> <#/>No <-/>no <-/>no <-/>no <#/>We are not talking about Friday
<$C> <#/>That is <-_>That is<-/> what I’m interested in 
<$B> <#/>We are not talking about Friday
<$C> <#/>When we met Victor where were you guys 
<$B> <#/>Who’s Victor 
<$C> <#/>The guy you sent 
<$B> <#/>Oh <./>tha that guy 
<$C> <#/>Yeah 
<$B> <#/>Outside your <ea/>ninii your hall 
<$C> <#/>Where were you people going to <#/>Were you coming from somewhere or you were coming to our place 
<$B> <#/><ea/>Eh <ea/>kwani are you interviewing me
<$C> <#/>No I uh 
<$B> <#/>No you know you are we are talking to the to <-/>to inform you that the <ea/>ninii the function will be at that on Friday night <-_>Friday night<-/>
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$B> <#/>But now when we reached there we started discussing who should knock your door <#/>It is like nobody was willing so we decided we can as well send somebody 
<$A> <#/>Sure <#/>Uh I thought knocking a door was something quite <-/>quite easy
<$B> <#/>No <./>i <./>a it was Jackie wanted to send me 
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$B> <#/>And since you <-/>you <-/>you had talked to Jackie I wasn't seeing how she can send me after all I didn't know what you had discussed so I was telling her you 
<$C> <#/>She told you we had discussed
<$B> <#/>Not really 
<$C> <#/>Okay you thought 
<$B> <#/>I mean I don’t know where the conversation when the conversation <./>wh where you were talking from or I didn’t know anything <#/>She just told me that Jwan wanted to know about the party
<$A> <#/>Actually we asked her one time yeah
<$B> <#/>So she wanted to send me and me I refused and her she didn't want to know
<$C> <#/>Why did you refuse
<$B> <#/>Because I didn't know about it very well <#/>She's the one who
<$C> <#/>You didn't know about the party
<$A> <#/>You didn't know that the
<$B> <#/>No <#/>Your conversation 
<$A> <#/>But  I thought the conversation was not important <#/>What was important was what was discussed and that was the party
<$B> <#/>Why should she send me and she can go 
<$A> <#/>I mean anybody could go and see him
<$C> <#/>I think there is something very hidden about 
<$B> <#/>What 
<$C> <#/>There is something very interesting that we need to know
<$B> <#/><./>Wha What 
<$C> <#/>You see 'cause you’re saying that why <#/>How come Jackie insisted 
<$B> <#/>Yeah you see at the end of the day she kept on that one lunch see it was lunchtime she insisted very much that I should be the one to come up <#/>I refused then when we were coming from Soweto she again wanted to send me <#/>She didn't want to come up <#/>So me I refused <#/>That's why we came together
<$A> <#/>I think uh what might have happened Jackie did not want to be part of uh any failure again
<$B> <#/><-/>Ah
<$A> <#/>The other time it was you who was blamed for having uh not 
<$B> <#/>How was I blamed by the way 

<$C> <#/> Come in 
<$A> <#/>Yes 
<$D> <#/>Hi's 
<$C> <#/>Yes Joyce How are you
<$D> <#/>I’ve looked for you <ea/>mpaka  uh I knew you were here 
<$A> <#/>How are you <#/>How have you been
<$B> <#/><ea/>Karibu
<$A> <#/>How is hall five
<$D> <#/>Fine 
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>Come on sit next to me here
<$D> <#/>Oh You are doing some work <#/>Yeah 
<$C> <#/>No just sit 
<$A> <#/> We are just talking 
<$D> <#/>You are talking about something
<$C> <#/>No <-/>no <-/>no <#/>Look at you
<$B> <#/>By the way this thing is on
<$C> <#/>How are you
<$D> <#/><ea/>Si we are supposed to talk when <ea/>akina Olivia are here
<$C> <#/>How are you
<$D> <#/>Not bad <-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>Where have you looked for us 
<$A> <#/>Yeah they are coming <#/>You are from the hostel
<$D> <#/><ea/>Eeh
<$A> <#/>Okay 
<$D> <#/>Now I wanted to <#/>Could I borrow your deck <#/>We watch another tape and we bring it back 
<$C> <#/>At what timecan we take it at five <#/>Is that okay with you 
<$D> <#/>Fine
<$C> <#/>About a quarter to five <#/>We've got a tape we would want to watch at that time to be exact <#/>Will you find that too late
<$D> <#/>Yes I think it’s okay 
<$B> <#/>When is she finishing that one 
<$C> <#/>I don’t know <#/>You wanted it right away <#/>I mean right away
<$D> <#/>Yeah <ea/>ama she will mind 
<$C> <#/>I’m not sure 
<$D> <#/>There is another very good tape you've got
<$A> <#/>What does it talk about
<$D> <#/>Waiting to Exhale
<$C> <#/>Waiting to 
<$D> <#/>Exhale
<$C> <#/>Judy where are you going to 
<$B> <#/>I’m coming back 
<$C> <#/>Okay 
<$A> <#/>I hope you are going to  check where Jackie is
<$C> <#/>Please don’t take long 
<$B> <#/>I won’t
<$C> <#/>All right
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/><-/>aha 
<$C> <#/>Francis what do you think 
<$D> <#/>You guys wanted to watch uh a movie before the match
<$A> <#/>No it is just that it is being watched <./>wh whatever is there is being watched now and uh it cannot go beyond five because at five shortly a <-/>a around ten minutes to five there will be that match which we have to watch <#/>So that means it will be occupied
<$D> <#/>Okay 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$D> <#/>Fine <ea/>Wacha I check at that time 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$C> <#/>Or it's going to be too late when is the <ea/>nini supposed to be taken the <-/>the tape
<$D> <#/>No it’s in fact it’s ours <#/>It's one of my <-_friend><+_friends> who is coming from home 
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>And it's a thriller
<$D> <#/>Well I don’t know <#/>I know it’s new film <#/>It's a new film so I don't know 
<$A> <#/>It's beautiful <#/>It has been 
<$D> <#/>It's rather poetic
<$A> <#/>Okay 
<$C> <#/>I mean people <-/>people have been talking about which is this you said it is 
<$D> <#/>Waiting to Exhale
<$C> <#/>Waiting to Exhale <$D> <#/>Exhale
<$C> <#/>Exhale <#/>Okay <#/>Have a seat and 
<$A> <#/>How <-/>How is <-_>How is<-/> Madame Omolo
<$D> <#/>She is okay 
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$C> <#/>I’m sure you guys must be finding feeling so bad about the <-/>the <-/>the Bold 
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Now that soccer has taken over 
<$D> <#/>It's dominating
<$A> <#/>Yeah somehow we have to <-/>to <-/>to 
<$C> <#/>But I was really disappointed <#/>Is it on <-/>on Friday <#/>You know the last time when it ended I thought well many of us thought that Mago had told Christine you know had revealed to Christine <#/>Did you watch
<$D> <#/>Yeah <-/>yeah <-/>yeah 
<$C> <#/>On Sunday the other one
<$D> <#/>Yeah <-/>yeah When he was  imagining
<$C> <#/>That’s right <#/>Yeah and then immediately he fell down Christine came in <#/>Yeah <#/>So I thought people thought that at last today he has been caught but <ea/>kumbe the lady didn't 
<$D> <#/>But by the way it was there on Friday The Bold
<$C> <#/>Yeah I watched <#/>Yeah there was nothing <ea/>kumbe she didn't tell Christine anything now that 
<$D> <#/>She hadn't <#/>She hadn't told she didn't tell her 
<$C> <#/>No 
<$A> <#/>So you managed to go to B
<$C> <#/>Yeah I watched 
<$A> <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>I watched
<$B> <#/>You went to B Jwan
<$C> <#/>Yeah that time I went to B
<$B> <#/>You didn’t watch in your I make for you some tea
<$C> <#/>Not now please <#/>You will make that later
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>You don't want us to stay for some time 
<$A> <#/>Oh yeah <-/>yeah <-/>yeah 
<$C> <#/>So How is your reception in your place now 
<$D> <#/>Just <#/>Not so good <#/>But imagine I noticed this other side is better 'cause another I gave another babe to watch another programme in the morning and it was very clear this side
<$C> <#/>Yeah but I think that's what I told you the other time <#/>If you this side of <ea/>akina where we are now
<$D> <#/>Yes
<$C> <#/>It's beautiful 
<$D> <#/><-/>Ha 
<$C> <#/>It’s very <-/>very clear <#/>The other side is not as clear as this other side 
<$D> <#/>Me I thought side wouldn't be clear because of the obstruction of the hostel and all that
<$A>&<$C> <#/>Oh 
<$A> <#/>Now this other side is closer to Timboroa than the other side 
<$D> <#/>Where is Timboroa <#/>Timboroa is this side 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>It’s <-/>It’s more direct to Timboroa therefore the reception is
<$A> <#/>This is a very powerful snap <#/>In fact it should be sent to those guys who make success cards 
<$B>Where is it
<$A> <#/>It’s very nice 
<$B> <#/><-/>Mhm I see
<$A> <#/>Just as nice as this one
<$B> <#/>Are you sure
<$A> <#/>Yes 
<$B> <#/>That one is not nice
<$A> <#/>So 
<$C> <#/>Okay 
<$B> <#/>I don't <-_>I don't<-/> like that one
<$C> <#/>What
<$B> <#/>The way you are looking at that one 
<$C> <#/>No I <-/>I want to revisit the Friday <-/>eh
<$B> <#/>Uh no <#/>We are not going to talk about Friday now
<$A> <#/>But so long as I will still be 
<$B> <#/>What 
<$A> <#/> We are talking about Friday
<$C> <#/>I want to talk about Friday
<$B> <#/>We are talking about what 
<$C> <#/>We are not through with I want to get to some interesting episode 
<$A> <#/>What was this lady’s name 
<$B> <#/>Rama
<$A> <#/><ea/>Ei is she a <./>M <-/>a <ea/>Mhindi
<$B> <#/>Real
<$C> <#/><./>Ra
<$B> <#/>Ramakat Rael
<$C> <#/>Rocket
<$A> <#/>Ramakat Rael
<$B> <#/>Ramakat
<$A> <#/>Uh She was a <ea/>Kale <$B> <#/>Which one by the way 
<$A> <#/>This one 
<$B> <#/>This one uh <#/>She’s a <ea/>Kale
<$A> <#/>Sure
<$B> <#/>Ramakat is a <ra/>Kaleo
<$A> <#/>Oh <-/>oh <-/>oh I knew she was a <-/>a <ea/>Kyuk all this time
<$B> <#/>Because she was walking with me
<$D> <#/>Joyce
<$C> <#/>I realized Mutuota has become very good with his books
<$D> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>Mutuota he must be a good guy <#/>You can hardly find lecturers who give students their books then all you need to do is record your name down you bring it back somebody picks it 
<$D> <#/>Yeah he’s good Mutuota is not a bad guy <#/>He's really good
<$C> <#/>That is the book you are telling me he uses eh
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>The one you’re <-/>you’re  were returning that day
<$E> <#/>What is it
<$D> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$A> <#/>Now I’m just wondering whether my guess is right 
<$B> <#/>For what
<$A> <#/>Who is this 
<$B> <#/>My son 
<$A> <#/>No you can't give birth to your son of this age
<$B> <#/>I mean <ea/>kwani uh
<$A> <#/>Even if you gave birth at five your son cannot be this old 
<$C> <#/>No
<$B> <#/>And what is wrong with that 
<$A> <#/>No this is a man older than you <#/>You can only give birth to a son who is younger
<$B> <#/>What do you think that is my <slang/>bro and he’s younger than me for your information 
<$A> <#/>Yeah but you see somebody can be younger than you  but not some 
<$D> <#/>This is campus
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Who is it
<$D> <#/>Oh this is the bishop uh uh Bishop Korir 
<$C> <#/>The bishop of Eldoret uh
<$D> <#/>This is a campusserian 
<$B> <#/>uh the guy 
<$A> <#/>Come on <#/>Let's Let me see it
<$A> <#/>Come on <#/>Let me see it 
<$B> <#/>No you are not seeing it 
<$A> <#/>Snaps are supposed to be seen surely 
<$B> <#/>You said 
<$C> <#/>But <-/>But it should be seen <#/>We have been waiting for you all this time
<$E> <#/>Really I <-/>I It wasn't four
<$A> <#/>Sure I like the way you keep time
<$C> <#/>We are still waiting for the <O/> but just have a seat 
<$E> <#/>I <-/>I <-/>I have a headache 
<$C> <#/>Is it why
<$E> <#/>The sun <ea/>uko 
<$C> <#/>Oh when you sit in the sun
<$E> <#/>I went to the bus stop and I think that is how
<$A> <#/>You had seen somebody off
<$E> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>Who are these lucky people who are seen off
<$B> <#/>Jwan is very tall I wish I was that tall
<$C> <#/>Who <-/>Who was this lucky person who is seen off on a Sunday afternoon
<$E> <#/>My friend 
T</I>

S1A005K
<I> <$C> <#/>Well here in hall four or hall five 
<$E> <#/>You know <#/>She’s just worried <#/>I hear there is a nice system there <#/>There is a good system in the room anyway
<$B> <#/>Who was telling it Mary Sheila’s system was picked
<$C> <#/>What about if you know the person whose key
<$E> <#/>Mary Sheila’s system was picked when I was there and do you know <#/>The last <-_>the last<-/> day <ea/><O/> <#/>That’s when her <ea/>ninii was picked
<$A> <#/>She didn’t lock her room
<$?> <#/>She was not there <#/>She locked her door everything while she was not there 
<$B> <#/>She went  somewhere
<$A> <#/>She had gone visiting
<$E> <#/>Well she was not there 
<$A> <#/>Or she had gone to clear the <-/>the semester in a big way 
<$E> <#/>Yeah maybe but all I know is she was not there <#/>I insist she was not there
<$A> <#/>Yeah 
<$B> <#/>So somebody came with a master key 
<$E> <#/>I have no idea but someone picked that system <#/>And it went
<$A> <#/>For all you know 
<$C> <#/>What about if you locked the person inside 
<$E> <#/>Lock which person inside
<$C> <#/>If you lock the key <-_>the key<-/> the person with the key
<$E> <#/>Yeah see the key that locks will just open 
<$C> <#/>Does it follow automatically 
<$B> <#/>Yeah 
<$E> <#/>We have this my the key for my former room was a master key <#/>It can open and close many rooms
<$A> <#/>Sometimes <-/>Sometimes they open but they don't close
<$C> <#/>This was the same problem with Florence 
<$B> <#/>She doesn't have the specs
<$C> <#/>And she doesn’t have the same hairstyle 
<$A> <#/>You know Florence has become so uh <#/>Seeing Flo in another hairstyle it would be very difficult to recognise 
<$B> <#/>It was <#/>You never used to know her
<$C> <#/>The first time I saw her she was in this type of hairstyle 
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>But I mean <./>th the one she has now 
<$E> <#/>I mean those days Judy you specialising in snap-taking <#/><ea/>ama it is that psycho who took you those ones
<$B> <#/>Which ones
<$B> <#/>Oh yeah <#/>He is the one 
<$E> <#/>Okay whose birthday was this with many candles <#/><ea/>Ama these are 
<$B> <#/>My cousin's
<$E> <#/>He was here yeah 
<$B> <#/>Yeah that’s my cousin <#/>No this was my cousin <#/>That’s her boyfriend <ea/>Mzuri <ea/>sana 
<$E> <#/>They are still <#/>He She Both of them are still here
<$B> <#/>Uh uh 
<$E> <#/>Or he cleared 
<$B> <#/>The guy cleared <#/>That’s my friend who made me stay here up to five or six thirty on <-/>on Friday
<$A> <#/>Waiting for her
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si talking 
<$B> <#/>You know this guy you know on Friday  I didn’t sleep the whole night
<$C> <#/>Oh Okay <-/>okay 
<$A> <#/>Uh That was great
<$C> <#/>Uh this is the padre 
<$E> <#/>He’s a padre
<$B> <#/>No he’s not yet 
<$C> <#/>This <-/>this is the boy who was saying he is somewhere in Arusha 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>What uh <-/>What is he doing in Arusha 
<$A> <#/>Trying to be a priest
<$B> <#/>He is in seminary
<$C> <#/>Oh he is in a seminary
<$B> <#/>Yeah the Jesuits
<$C> <#/>Okay
<$B> <#/>Yeah <#/>So they are brothers of Jesuits in Arusha
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>So he’ll be there for how long 
<$B> <#/>Ten more years
<$C> <#/>Ten more years
<$A> <#/>What will be happening in the meantime
<$B> <#/><./>Li uh Like now <ea/>si he has stuck for two years yeah two years <#/>I guess two years are over 
<$D> <#/>He was small
<$?> <#/>Form two
<$A> <#/><ea/>Yaani this idea came to you fairly late in life
<$B> <#/>Uh uh he had joined and then he chucked to come to campus and then
<$A> <#/>Do you stop doing that to come to campus
<$?> <#/>No uh <#/>He had joined the seminary the training 
<$C> <#/>He had not finished 
<$B> <#/>He had not <./>fin <#/>In fact he was I guess second year
<$C> <#/>Right
<$B> <#/>Then  he was called back

<$C> <#/>Then he left to come to college 
<$B> <#/>Yeah <#/>Then after college he went back but a different congregation
<$C> <#/>Why
<$B> <#/>At that time he was a diocesan
<$C> <#/>Yeah 
<$B> <#/>And uh now he’s uh <-_>he’s uh<-/> religious 
<$C> <#/>Okay 
<$B> <#/>That's very innocent
<$C> <#/>So he’s in Arusha for ten years 
<$B> <#/>But yeah he’s after all he’s After now he is <-_>he is<-/> taking his vows next week and then he will go to <#/>He will come by end of October 
<$C/$D> <#/>To do what
<$B> <#/>Uh first round
<$D> <#/>Jwan let me go and come you will here or
<$C> <#/>I’ll have gone back
<$D> <#/>Five yeah
<$C> <#/>Five 
<$D> <#/>Take note
<$A> <#/>Can
<$C> <#/>It is about twelve past four
<$A> <#/>Can you pass my regards to a lady called <name/>
<$D> <#/>Okay 
<$A> <#/>Yes and uh and <-/>and Edith also
<$D> <#/>Fine 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>All right <#/>See you then
<$A> <#/>Let me ask you this lady who is she <#/>You know I saw her the other 
<$B> <#/>Ouma is a girl from <O/>
<$C> <#/>uh
<$B> <#/>Ouma
<$C> <#/>Who is <-_>who is<-/> Ouma
<$A> <#/>And is she a student here
<$B> <#/>Me I don’t know
<$E> <#/>Let me see
<$A> <#/>But she was very busy in the <-_>in the<-/> conference or she
<$B> <#/>She’s a student here I guess a second year Let me see
<$A> <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>Kwani you don't know some of the students around here
<$B> <#/>You <-/>you know <#/>You used to know everybody during your time
<$B> <#/>This girl is a student the one in a bluish mini <#/>She's a student here 
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/><-/>mhm 
<$B> <#/>I know she is 
<$E> <#/><$B> <#/><$B> <#/>Oh yeah <$E> <#/><$E> <#/>Summit <$B> <#/>Yes <$A> <#/>Oh <ea/>kwani O J is which one 
<$B> <#/>O J Summit <#/>This guy who feels good who twangs <$E> <#/>Hi ladies Hi girls
<$C> <#/>Uh 
<$E> <#/>Hi girls  uh Summit
<$A> <#/>You mean the other one <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>So it's he 
<$E> <#/>uh Summit
<$A> <#/>Oh that other one who is <O/>
<$C> <#/>Where does he stay
<$B> <#/>like in Lavingtone
<$C> <#/>Here is Soweto
<$A> <#/>Yeah when we were going kept on sending people for their whatever people kept on laughing
<$B> <#/>Who’s this
<$A> <#/>He’s a <ea/>Mluhya boy
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm Nobala
<$A> <#/>Not Nobala <#/>Nobala does not crack jokes <#/>This other one is just full of jokes
<$C> <#/>You mean Nobala does not crack jokes
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>Which one is this
<$A> <#/>When we were coming back he sat in front <#/>He would talk and talk and talk <#/>In fact there was a time he was talking to some lady and the lady was firing him and he is very good he is usually good in giving the <O/> before you finish your sentence <#/>He has given one and the whole bus laughs 
<$B> <#/>I don’t know because me I know that refugee guys are very boring
<$C> <#/>Why <-/>why do you say that 
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si <#/>They’re just boring <#/>They don’t amuse me 
<$C> <#/>Why 
<$A> <#/>Sure  You know
<$B> <#/>Just like that <#/>They are flat
<$C> <#/>They don’t talk
<$B> <#/>They talk but not the kind of talk 
<$E> <#/>This is at Ian's place Keino's place which uh
<$B> <#/>Uh <-/>Uh <-/>Uh 
<$A> <#/>This is the one called O J now
<$E> <#/>Summit
<$B> <#/>uh That is O J 
<$C> <#/>The one who raps <#/>Who is he
<$A> <#/>This one do I know him 
<$B> <#/>I know he acquired that twang when he came here
<$E> <#/><&/>Kiswahili
<$B> <#/><&/>Kiswahili
<$A> <#/>But it’s not a crime <#/>It’s okay you can acquire and 
<$E> <#/>What was happening <#/>Oh that day of ordaining <ea/>nanii
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$A> <#/>By the way this is the lady who  is sick
<$C> <#/>I’ve never <-/>never seen this 
<$B> <#/>Which one
<$C> <#/>Oh this is the lady 
<$A> <#/>Yes 
<$C> <#/>She would have been a fourth year this year or a fifth year
<$B> <#/><ea/>
<$A> <#/>Fourth because she was in IS <&_>information science<&/>

<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/>You know her she’s in fourth
<$B> <#/>What are you asking me not really but she is
<$C> <#/>What does she do with herself now <#/>She’s not recovered
<$C> <#/>She <#/>Speak up 
<$A> <#/>She does what 
<$B> <#/>Maybe she just stays at home <#/>I guess she's doing computers <#/>I'm not sure
<$E> <#/>She will come back
<$B> <#/>I don’t know
<$A> <#/>But I thought she was sick <#/>People who are sick can still do computers
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si it's just normal stress
<$C> <#/>But that’s just <#/>Does it end when you leave this place <#/>Does it follow automatically that when you leave 
<$B> <#/>No it doesn’t end but me I don't know what she is doing at home
<$A> <#/>You mean she just decided to walk out 
<$B> <#/>No
<$two women> <#/>She was sick
<$E> <#/>She was going to <ea/>sparko 
<$E> <#/>Isn’t it the truth <#/>Okay <#/>How would you say it <#/>Those are my words
<$B> <#/>That's so crude Olivia <#/>How can you describe
<$E> <#/>But she's it's just like I can say that Mwangi is <ea/>sparko <#/>He is <ea/>sparko in the head that man the short photographer
<$B> <#/>Let me ask you <#/>When you were here Mwangi was uh what year
<$A> <#/>Mwangi was my classmate
<$C> <#/>I don’t know him
<$B> <#/>Mwangi was your classmate
<$C> <#/>I don't know him <#/>I never knew him
<$A> <#/>Mwangi the photographer
<$women together> <#/>Yeah 

<$A> <#/>He was my classmate not only year mate <#/>He was classmate
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>Why you why did you ask
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Uh 
<$E> <#/>But the guy he’s <ea/>sparko <#/>I am scared of him and he always grins at me you know
<$B> <#/>But he grins at everybody
<$E> <#/>Grins 
<$C> <#/>Not greets
<$E> <#/>Initially listen Initially he used to talk he used to say hello to me <#/>I thought he was very <ea/>kawa until  You're looking nice you are looking nice the day of the party 
<$B> <#/>That day <-_>that day<-/> The day you were <-_>you were<-/> taking some snaps 
<$E> <#/>Of the snaps in fact he <-/>he insisted I took snaps with him <#/>He is the one who insisted I take the pictures so I thought uh <ea/>kwani till later <#/>Jackie told me you know that man Mwangi is <ea/>sparko <#/>I said <ea/>uuwi and the way I was making noise at him uh he would have <ea/>harakishad me
<$B> <#/>By the way You I <-/>I don’t know but now he <O/> still talking to us
<$E> <#/>Then since then there even me since then I stopped talking to him but let me tell you he always has that <./>expenct expectant grin on his face
<$B> <#/>You know that’s how he is
<$A> <#/>Does it mean that you don’t like talking to people who are sick mentally
<$E> <#/>No I was scared <#/>Why because he I had really I really made noise at him and so when the next time I saw him I didn't know but of course now I knew he is unwell okay <#/>I didn't know how to approach <#/>I just you know <#/>So since I had never known I decided the best thing is not to say hello and even him on that note he just looks at me <O/> he looks at me though a <-/grinnish> look you know uh <#/>Even he grins all the time <#/>Even the other some guy told me is that guy grinning at you or something I told him uh that is Mwangi <#/>I mean please it's okay I just didn't know how to react
<$B> <#/>But I guess now he’s quite normal <#/>It’s only that he keeps on <#/>Maybe it's because of the tabs he took <#/>He's quite normal
<$A> <#/>Have you listened to his story uh what <-/>what happened between him and a Maurice <#/>He was uh Maurice's cube-mate <#/>Nasser has not told you that <#/>Wow <-/>wow it was a scene and a half
<$E> <#/>When he went to tell him to shut up
<$A> <#/>You What happened they were staying in the same room <#/>Was it in G <#/>Then at that time he had just begun having those problems so Amori <-/>Amori <-/>Amori was to come back home some evening from <O/> and it's like the whole house was full of water you know <#/>It's like Mwangi has been trying to mop but he changed his mind in the process 
<$C> <#/>Okay
<$A> <#/>So 
<$C> <#/>He wanted to mop and <./>th then he stopped 
<$A> <#/>Yeah he stopped uh all the same but you know like  in NYS we used to say <ea/>maji <O/>
<$B> <#/>No stop that <ea/>tabia 
<$E> <#/>No I <#/>You know why I 
<$B> <#/>Please do stop  <#/>It’s even necessary
<$A> <#/>So Amori just told that was not good so he needs to stop he didn't stop at that <#/>Another time he would come and he would make noise and he used to come late <#/>I mean until a <O/> got worked up and told him to check his steps otherwise things were not going to be in his favour <#/>Now wait until that day he said today everything here is dirty and so there needs to be thorough cleaning <#/>So there was water all over the place on <name/>'s bed and you in G had problems all those beds <#/>So Amori was worked up Amori beat the boy and it was serious
<$C> <#/>Amori beat the boy even though he was unwell
<$A> <#/>That time Amori had not realised you know he was just a normal boy then his head went nuts <#/>Amori just beat him up and people came <#/>Then things just went bad and Mwangi had to leave but I don't think he picked uh litter as such
<$B> <#/>Me I find him so <#/>Well in fact I’m so happy that he doesn't talk to us
<$C/$E > Why
<$C> <#/>Why
<$A> <#/>People who are unwell are not supposed to be talking to you
<$?> <#/>He can disturb
</I>
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<I> <$B> <#/>
<$E> <#/>Now who the hell is this
<$B> <#/>My brother’s friend
<$A> <#/>How old was this lady
<$B> <#/>Which lady Sarah
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>Sarah is now what 
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si it's this one
<$B> <#/>She’s twenty-one now
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>That is your sister or
<$B> <#/>Cousin
<$C> <#/>Oh Okay
<$A> <#/>What was she catching here now uh
<$B> <#/>By the way that was a party between her and her boyfriend only <#/>There were no people
<$A> <#/>Sure <#/>Why <-/>Why were they that mean
<$B> <#/>Uh <ea/>si they just love each other and they thought that it was good
<$C> <#/>They would have told some people to come and
<$A> <#/>Now the boyfriend was taking snaps 
<$B> <#/>Uh they 
<$A> <#/>So at no time they ever took a snap 
<$C> <#/>It is not that part who will take you people a snap <#/>I think that is where 
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si you just <-/>just go out to the other room and ask somebody to take you
<$C> <#/>Oh it is in college
<$?> <#/>Not in college <#/>Where he works
<$A> <#/>And then you tell that person about the first bus
<$E> <#/>I like this father 
<$C> <#/>How is he 
<$B> <#/>Uh Which one 
<$C> <#/>Uh the short guy
<$B> <#/>uh
<$A> <#/>This <-/>This is <#/>I hope I'm not being taken to be another Mwangi 
<$C> <#/>The other Mwangi who is
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>It's only you fear that 
<$A> <#/>Oh You mean you had even been evaluated
<$E> <#/>What do you mean <#/>No  <#/>It is hot
<$A> <#/>Oh This was the day everybody was in red
<$B> <#/>That was first year <O/> <#/>I see <#/>It’s not <#/>That was first year 
<$A> <#/>This one 
<$B> <#/>Yeah Sarah <#/>Sarah by then she was a graduate so she decided to repeat the exercise again
<$A> <#/>And this one <#/>What was her name 
<$B> <#/>Susan
<$A> <#/>Susan
<$A> <#/>She’s so <-/>so quiet yeah
<$B> <#/>Susan was not quiet gosh <-/>mhm <-/>mhm <#/>But she was a very nice lady <#/>You haven’t seen her in <-/>in the snaps
<$A> <#/>I have seen her in some of these snaps <-/>mhm <#/>That’s good 
<$C> <#/>Which school were you in
<$B> <#/>Why
<$C> <#/>See I saw those snaps and you said you were in a party for the fourth formers or something
<$B> <#/>No
<$C> <#/>You said for
<$B> <#/>A levellers
<$C> <#/>Oh here
<$A/$C> <#/>Have you ever been as round
<$B> <#/>Pardon
<$A> <#/>Have you ever been as round
<$B> <#/>I was very thin
<$C> <#/>When was this taken 
<$B> <#/>See here
<$C> <#/>When
<$B> <#/>I won’t tell you 
<$A> <#/>This is uh what’s his name
<$E> <#/>Who
<$B> <#/>Nobala
<$A> <#/>Not Nobala This
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/>No
<$E> <#/>Who's Nobala <#/>The other one
<$A> <#/>Nobala is this one here
<$E> <#/>Nobala <#/>But then Nobala is <ea/>Luhya
<$B> <#/>Yeah 
<$E> <#/>He doesn't look like a <ea/>Luhya
<$A> <#/>He’s more of a <ea/>Teso than a <ea/>Luhya
<$E> <#/>Yeah <#/>Even his characteristics
<$C> <#/>A <ea/>Teso
<$E> <#/>He’s <-/>mhm <#/>He’s I don’t know <#/>He’s <-/>he’s not <-/>he’s <-/>he'd <-/>he’s he <./>d does not behave <ea/>Luhya for sure
<$B> <#/><ea/>Luhyas are <ea/>Kwani how do they behave
<$E> <#/>That <-/>that is just what I think
<$A> <#/>That’s not an official 
<$E> <#/>Yeah <#/>It’s just what I think
<$A> <#/>Okay <#/>You stand to be corrected 
<$E> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>Good
<$E> <#/>It’s just the way someone could be uh like a <ea/>Luhya but then you are like a uh they don't you know they don't that kind of thing
<$B> <#/>Francis how do you behave
<$C> <#/><ea/>Luos are usually loud-mouthed
<$B> <#/>How do you behave Francis Yeah anyway <ea/>Luos <ea/>Kwanza girls gosh all girls it's only Nume and Debby
<$E> <#/>Are you sure Millie and Dede are noisy in their own way 
<$B> <#/>The guys are <#/>They don't shout
<$E> <#/>No In their own way 
<$B> <#/>Millie and Dede are not loud
<$A> <#/>And who is Millie
<$E> <#/>So you want to say we are loud <-/>loud  loud 
<$C> <#/>Where do they stay
<$B> <#/>But you were <#/>You Jackie and Tina gosh
<$C> <#/>Who is Tina
<$B> <#/>You don’t know Tina you
<$C> <#/>No 
<$A> <#/>Who are these
<$E> <#/>You know Tina
<$C> <#/>No <#/>Unless
<$E> <#/>Slim and wears specs <#/>Her boyfriend is tall <#/>You <-/>You can always tell them by the difference  Tall and short
<$C> <#/>Oh Okay <-/>okay 
<$A> <#/>Who are these
<$C> <#/>This one <#/>That one 
<$A> <#/>Is this the boyfriend
<$C> <#/>No <#/>She’s small and she wears specs
<$E> <#/>The bald one is Marto  and that is Yuckins
<$C> <#/>She’s short <#/>The obvious lady <#/>There only one <ea/>Luo lady who is short here
<$A> <#/><-/>Mhm
<$B> <#/><ea/>Kwani you people  
<$C> <#/>The one I told you I found at <name/> place one time and
<$A> <#/>Okay <-/>okay <#/>You are there
<$C> <#/>I always see her with some tall young man around here
<$A> <#/>Okay
<$E> <#/>But it is that is <#/>Okay it’s easier to describe him like that  <#/>People click faster
<$C> <#/>You know I told you that there was a time I was coming from the <slang/>lib and it was like they were holding one another
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>There was a lot of love that transpired
<$E> <#/><ea/>Ati badly <#/>What do you mean badly <#/>Nicely tight tighter than tight
<$B> <#/><ea/>Wewe Olivia
<$E> <#/>Wait uh
<$A> <#/>You know badly that means <#/>Badly means <O/> <ea/>yaani like that
<$E> <#/>To death it's called Show me love
<$?> <#/>It’s called 
<$B> <#/>When you are held you are supposed to be loved 
<$E> <#/>No listen <#/>Show me love <#/>They are professing it in whichever way they want to <#/>It’s okay
<$A> <#/>There are many ways of killing a rat
<$E> <#/>Yeah <#/>Uh I mean that is one of them <#/>Especially maybe they didn’t actually think someone was watching
<$A> <#/>He's also <ea/>Luo
<$E> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>That guy
<$E> <#/>He's <ea/>Luhya
<$A> <#/>See this is that lady
<$E> <#/>But listen guys these you people let me tell you one  <#/>They <./>d you know <#/>They describe people by that day that one that story that 
<$A> <#/>No for <-/>for this one <#/>This lady had a bad <-_>a bad<-/> whatever when we were together <#/>Besides her <-/>her sister was my classmate
<$B> <#/>Francis let me ask you <#/>Anything you <-/>you see around these parts of Moi University or you hear or <./>y you are told you have to tell Jwan and it's bad
<$C> <#/> No that’s not true 
<$E> <#/>By the way they are all of them are like that <#/>We told Alex a very confidential story Alex <ea/>tu to the boys
<$A> <#/>I got that story from you Olivia
<$E> <#/>Okay the boys <-_>the boys<-/>
<$A> <#/>So it's wrong <#/>It’s inaccurate to say that Alex told it to us be specific 
<$E> <#/>By the way you know if you really value that story as in if you <ea/>hee <#/>Me I was so worried like by the way but the subject in question like I said before and I always say like I couldn't care less whether he got to know or he didn't <#/>It's okay <#/>In fact maybe it would do him a bit of good <#/>That is good
<$A> <#/>This is your granny
<$B> <#/>No <#/>That is a sister of my mum
<$C> <#/>Why do you say that uh <#/>Why did you say that Judy  that's <-/>that's bad
<$B> <#/>Francis always tells you
<$E> <#/>Let me loyalties <#/>It's just <O/> the way uh please <#/>It's <-/>it's uh I if someone uh <-/>someone uh uh it would be <./>w weird to tell Claire something and then tell her but don't tell Olivia anyway
<$B> <#/>But maybe sometimes somebody 
<$E> <#/>Certain most of the things I don't think they are things I wouldn't know even if she doesn't tell me <#/>No <#/>Okay that what I'm saying very minimal but these other story <-/>story <O/> <-/>story <O/> <-/>story that way okay
<$B> <#/>But imagine if somebody tells me I’m telling you something and please don’t tell anybody 
<$E> <#/>Okay <#/>That is confidentiality which okay <#/>But what I’m saying is there are those moments of course there are those things you discuss the two of you and those are stories between the two of you <#/>But now when it comes to story like I saw so and so I met who in this and that you know such 
<$A> <#/>No there are some of these things are highly confidential
<$E> <#/>Bu yeah But some of these that's what I'm saying like now this one  they are not that confidential
<$B> <#/>But you see Francis unless I tell you this is a secret and don’t tell anybody even Jwan <#/>You will always think that it's not very serious so you will go and tell anybody even Jwan
<$A> <#/>No but you see
<$C> <#/>Do have any 
<$A> <#/>You see what happens here is that there can be a time where a topic can arise and maybe you want to compare like and like <#/>But I'm just not going to come from the blues and oh Olivia was saying this and this <#/>We can't gossip like that <#/>That is tantamount to gossiping
<$E> <#/>No it’s just that <#/>You know that day <#/>Yeah You know why we said that <#/>In fact we remember after discussing that story so we said We told Alex uh <ea/>haki <#/>I hope you are not going to tell your buddies because and we let me tell you what happened 'cause even them I'm sure they will say these girls <#/>Then anyway in the end we said anyway big deal because really that is not the case that's not how it happened <#/>And you know Alex told us <ea/>ati uh how could I do that surely uh you know until I <-_lank><+_linked> up with Jwan and he was asking me you know he was and then he was asking me <#/>It's not bad but I just thought our mouths
<$C> <#/>Oh it depends on what you discuss  <#/>I know the story already
<$E> <#/>Okay But that one was uh <#/>By the way that one <#/>In any case it’s a story I had wanted we had just forgotten so that time we saw him like this we just remembered by the way you know even if it was not Alex we would have told any other person because that story we had decided surely we have to tell these boys you know <-/>mhm one at least we were burning with it but then we forgot uh
<$A> <#/>This was good
<$C> <#/>This was the day of the <ea/>harambee 
<$B> <#/><ea/>harambee 
<$C> <#/>The last one or
<$B> <#/>No that’s <ea/>kitambo <#/>Those are A-Levellers by the way
<$C> <#/>Oh Okay
<$B> <#/>I'm not sure
<$C> <#/>Even this one is a long time one
<$B> <#/>Which one 
<$E> <#/>By the way Irine went home
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$E> <#/>
<$B> <#/>Nairobi you know
<$A> <#/>I suspected Irine went home <#/>Not that we talked about it this time uh uh
<$C> <#/>Who is Irine
<$A> <#/>But your lights were on very late last night
<$C> <#/>Oh Irine is your neighbour your roommate 
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$E> <#/>
<$C> <#/>I have a problem with memory <#/>I'm very very forgetful
<$E> <#/><ea/>Na she was home the other day 
<$B> <#/><ea/>Si the other day 
<$C> <#/>Admission yeah
<$E> <#/>Boyfie was admitted to the bar <#/>He’s taking law
<$C> <#/>Uh He finished 
<$E> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>Okay 
<$B> <#/>By this time I guess she will <O/>
<$C> <#/>I thought you told me she was saved 
<$E> <#/>She is saved
<$B> <#/>uh <ea/>Kwani saved people are not supposed to have boyfriends
<$E> <#/>Even saved people have needs
<$A> <#/>Basic needs  Basic needs
<$E> <#/>And do you know what the basic needs are
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$E> <#/>The physiological food shelter  <#/>Security is not there
<$C> <#/>Going to the toilet
<$E> <#/>Security is not there <#/>And sex <#/>Physiological needs <#/>That is what your teacher told us  <#/>And I'm not I'm very proud to say
<$B> <#/>Gosh it is food
<$E> <#/>Basic water uh basic needs 
<$C> <#/>Physiological needs 
<$E> <#/>The physiological needs <#/>Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs physiological <#/>We have water I mean food shelter clothing education nowadays plus
<$A> <#/>Education is not physiological
<$E> <#/>Okay <#/>No but some people <#/>Okay but
<$B> <#/>But even sex is not basic Olivia
<$C> <#/>It is very basic 
<$E> <#/>It’s a physiological <#/>Listen <#/>It is a physiological need that is very basic
<$C> <#/>It is a physiological need
<$B> <#/>Yeah but you know 
<$A> <#/>You have to admit that fact
<$E> <#/>And once it’s a physiological need it is basic okay
<$C> <#/>Physiological needs are basic
<$B> <#/>You <-/>You are <-/>eh
<$A> <#/>They have to be met first before the  needs of the other levels are met
<$B> <#/>No me I don’t believe in that
<$E> <#/>I’m telling you from a scholar’s point of view
<$B> <#/>Uh Yeah <#/>But because I have seen so many people who
<$E> <#/>who abstain
<$B> <#/>who postpone <#/>They don't have
<$E> <#/>They postpone or they abstain 
<$B> <#/>They postpone that
<$A> <#/>You know it’s just that sex is done in a private place usually <#/>But food people eat food in hotels
<$E> <#/>Yeah and anywhere else you know
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>You know how you feel when you’re thirsty
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>You know just <-/>just answer my question <#/>When you <-/>you feel thirsty you need water 
<$B> <#/>No <#/>Let’s continue in this particular
<$C> <#/>Do you know what you feel <#/>That is exactly what it is <#/>Those are the <./>physio physiological needs <#/>When you hungry you are starving
<$A> <#/>You know like <#/>You know a physiological need now from psychological point of view is that one which you must satisfy in order to acquire another one
<$A/$E> <#/>to move to the next the next yeah
<$B> <#/>But <-/>but you can acquire others before you satisfy sexual 
<$C> <#/>A physiological need No
<$E> <#/>sexual <#/>Yeah you can <#/>You can  <-_>You can<-/> 
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<I> <$A> <#/>The first person who speaks will be person A <#/>That is uh uh which who <-/>who is me uh and I'm a student 
<$B>> Are we putting an A <#/>I mean <O/> 
<$A> <#/><O/> yeah So uh <O/> <./>tha <./>tha that was the saga you were telling me about the evening <#/>And then what happened yeah you told me <O/>
<$C> <#/>The crisis of government department
<$A> <#/>Oh okay <-/>okay yeah that <-/>that was the problem uh
<$D> <#/>Yeah that was the problem
<$A> <#/>Yeah <ea/>sawa <#/>So uh I was telling you uh when we left uh <-_>when we left<-/> that uh Kenyan Ugandan students discussion uh I was giving somebody a <-/>a push down to <-/>to her hall <-/>hall twelve <#/>Now uh this babe doesn’t know <-_this><+_thesE> <#/>sides yeah <ea/>si <ea/>ndio And then uh I told her so you follow like this <#/>First she <-/>she <-/>she saw a dead rat yeah and then she 
<$?> <#/>Where was that
<$A> <#/>she screamed just outside hall five outside near the booth <#/>She screamed and I asked her Hey what's the problem <O/> <#/>So we went down <ea/>mpaka between hall six and hall seven <ea/>si you know there is a <ea/>penya where you just squeeze
<$C> <#/>Hall six and seven
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$D> <#/>Yeah yeah there is a <O/> 
<$B> <#/>That route which we used to 
<$D> <#/>The route 
<$A> <#/> that <ea/>kiroute over there <#/>So I was taking her through there and then we come out into that AGD field yeah <#/>That field that faces it between hall <-/>hall six seven and eight and AGD <#/>And then we go through AGD and then she drops <O/>
<$D> <#/>Okay that bushy field
<$?> <#/><ea/>basi
<$?> <#/>Okay
<$A> <#/>Now see you <ea/>fika there I told her we go right <#/>And then she’s like uh wait a minute <ea/>bwana where you uh where are you taking me <#/>And I was like uh I mean you don't trust me and I anyway I mean I was hurt honestly speaking 'cause I mean where <-/>where did she <-_>where did she<-/> think I was taking her and to do what with her honestly 
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$A> <#/>Yeah uh okay I understand her sentiments but uh uh please I <-/>I mean trust is just the best thing 
<$D> <#/>Okay just a minute
<$B> <#/>For how long have you known the <-/>the lady
<$A> <#/>No <-/>no not that I really know her so much <-_>so much<-/> <#/>I mean we are <-_>we are<-/> classmates we <-/>we were classmates and uh we are acquaintances so uh 
<$B> <#/>You didn’t expect such a reaction
<$A> <#/>I was <#/>it was a little bit too much for me as you know <#/>Would I <-_>Would I<-/> <-_>Would I<-/> <#/>Okay to some extent she was right in that uh <-_>in that<-/> uh you have to find out where you know uh where somebody is taking you but on my side I mean it was hurting <ea/>bwana <#/>I mean if you just don't trust me 'cause she <-/>she actually was waiting for <name/> <O/>
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>Now she was like uh why <-/>why don't we go down together until the willow has disappeared <#/>Now she had gone <#/>So she was like see you give me a push I <-/>I <-/>I <-/>I have no problem <#/>So in the process of giving her a push on the way didn’t trust me <#/>I was so disappointed <#/>Anyway that’s life <#/>Those things do happen
<$D> <#/>In fact I was <-_>I was<-/> about to tell you that today I closed a file <O/> uh uh <#/>Oscar told me to postpone this story till now uh <#/>There are other crises
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>I have not told you while I was waiting for you 
<$B> <#/>Which story is that
<$D> <#/><O/> I <-/>I can say I have made two major decisions in my life for the past three <-/>three <-/>three days <#/>These three days that have <-/past> I made two major decisions <#/>Booting friends <#/>You have the wish to keep them but your <-/>your mind stroke brain wants to boot them because they are kind of infringing 
<$B> <#/>Your principles
<$D> <#/>Yes exactly
<$A> <#/><./>Whe <./>Whe When they do uh uh you will just have to but you take a choice you know
<$D> <#/>What can you do <#/>For example let me <-_>let me<-/> give you a very practical example <#/>It's like this <#/>You give somebody your notes personal notes <#/>Then you tell her please bring these notes tomorrow morning <#/>She brings them in the evening <#/>Then what happens is this once she brings them in the evening you ask her what happened <#/>She tells you that I had not finished with your notes <#/>Is that a <./>jus <-_>is that a<-/> very good reason for not returning your notes <#/>Then what happens is this when I go for a Kiswahili lecture and then I bounce a <-/>a philosophy lecture I come and tell her  Can you <./>Ca <-_>Can you<-/> give me your notes so that I can go and copy<#/> In fact it was the lecture about the end of a human act <#/>Then she says no reason <#/>She gives no reason <#/>Then today I told her very early in the morning that that time you were telling me that you <-/>you will have that <#/>There was some reading going on here 
<$B> <#/>Okay I <-/>I know the <-/>the <-/>the <-/>the situation  <#/>I decided to keep away
<$A> <#/>You <-/>You read between the lines yeah
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>He had to do because I <-/>I called her and then I told her that I want to talk to you but <#/>Yeah <./>let let's talk <#/>Uh Therefore I told her like this 
<$B> <#/>And then you received her 
<$D> <#/>Very simply it's like this <#/>You requested my notes <#/>I got angry when I got your message that you had written that I promised you that I'll give you my notes <#/>That was not true because I did not promise you <#/>I just said probably I'll bring my notes tomorrow meaning on Friday evening <#/>Then I said Okay that's it <#/>We <-/>We went and then I also added that uh <-/>that is what I said therefore your promise according to the philosophy of language a promise it means a lot <#/>It means a lot <#/>There is a difference between promise and probability <#/>Therefore I said okay that's what I said <#/>Therefore you are wrong on that in <-/>in writing that message in fact <#/>Therefore I said 
<$B> <#/>You <-/>you didn't promise her 
<$D> <#/>I didn't promise <#/>Therefore I still I <-/>I asked her do you still want the notes <#/>Yes <#/>But I <-/>I <-/>I love to make you remember two incidents that happened in second year <#/>And you'll tell me whether or not I'm just finally giving you my notes
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$D> <#/>Then I started <#/>Okay one time I gave you my Mazrui notes <#/>In fact I had mentioned that thing in class on Thursday <#/>And I said okay I'll give you my notes <#/>What happened <#/><O/> how <-/>how long did I stay with your notes <#/>I told her that uh you stayed with my notes for more than eight hours and each and every minute means a lot to me <#/>What was the end of the first incident <#/>Then the second one <#/>I told her about those uh notes she refused to give <#/>Said that I can't remember <#/>You know what I told her I'm very sorry <#/>I don't like this but I'm very sorry to have such a memorable mind <#/>I <-/>I just I don't I just don't want you to remember things <#/>It's very unfortunate but I have a very vivid memory 
<$A> <#/>You mean clear memory 
<$D> <#/>Yeah <#/>A clear memory not a vivid one <#/>And then I said okay that's it 
<$B> <#/>That's the first uh one of the major decisions
<$D> <#/>Yeah <#/>And then she took off hungrily
<$A> <#/>And there <-/>there goes a friend but anyway you know what uh at the end of the day I was telling this guy Me I believe if you’ve done the right thing it's <-/>it's okay because if that's the kind of a friend she is where <./>every everything just rotates around and about her her interest then uh you are better off relegate her to an acquaintance 
<$B> <#/>Surely
<$D> <#/>Sure
<$A> <#/>And that's <-_>and that's<-/> as much as it stands right now because if she comes back to <ea/>gus with you I mean I don't think you <-/>you would refuse her but still you’ll you <-/>you’ll <-/>you’ll have established your limits you have established what kind of a person she is and uh that's the most important thing
<$B> <#/>And I think this a major I <-/>I may presuppose that this a major tendency that uh most of our ladies here uh uh are fond of <-/>of <-/>of <-/>of <-/>of acquiring some sort of or <-/>or using
<$C> <#/>You see they <-/>they <-/>they <-/>they are not out to assist you <#/>In most cases you find it that it’s a one way kind of traffic kind of relationship uh  <#/>She She’s not 
<$A> <#/>But that's the society <#/>Everyone is just opportunistic you know
<$D> <#/>Why
<$C> <#/>Where <-/>Where can we place the blame now <#/>Because for one thing they have been fighting for equality and with this equality that they are fighting for me I believe that you first have to <-/>to level the ground and make sure that everything is at par such that whatever she gets if she gets fifty I also get fifty <#/>And it should be what we’ve all worked for  individually 
<$A> <#/>But you see there’s <-/>there’s this question yeah somebody was posing uh the Kenyan the <-/>the <-/>the Nairobian lady <#/>I mean we are working in the accounts department <#/>She earns as much as I do <#/>And she has the audacity to come and tell me Hi Oscar Hi How are you <ea/>nzuri Take me out <#/>You know I mean  <#/>We <./>ear uh We earn the same yeah <#/>Buy me lunch  <#/>Let's go for <#/>Take me for a movie <#/>Please I mean it’s not like I have any extra shillings above what she has yeah <#/>But they're always on the receiving end even when their salaries are the same you know they are getting the same <O/> and the same <-_>the same<-/> allowance or you know uh 
<$?> <#/>e t c 
<$A> <#/>I’m just a Kenyan anyway 
<$C> <#/>The problem is this they claim that One they have a lot of things which cannot be met by their salary <#/>Secondly they say that it's better they <-/>they utilise our money instead of us taking that money to a bar <#/>You see such kind of bizarre reasons 
<$A> <#/>But you see <-_>you see<-/> yeah <#/>They always try to make it uh their <-/>their us-conscience you know <ea/>ati conscience for us in <-/>in saying that rather than you go to the bar and <-/>and waste your money down there and you know you <-/>you stand a risk of let’s say getting drunk being mugged and you know so instead of like even saying you bring your you put your money to something that's useful that's <slang/>gonna <-/>gonna come back to you <-/>you spend it on them that's a better investment you know  
<$D> <#/>You know that therefore <-/>therefore you cannot say that this <-/>this gender equality thing I don't think <O/> it can work in anywhere in this world <#/>What we can have is gender equity <#/>There is no way she can come and claim that <-/>that to spend my <./>mo your money on me that is a better investment it <-/>it <-/>it means implicitly that she's <-/>she's like just starting a business <#/>You invest too much in her 
<$B> <#/>And given the fact that some of them have been letting many guys uh down
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>You might even invest the way they <-/>they take it to be <#/>And finally she <-/>she <-/>she gets married to someone else <#/>So you <-/>you end up losing <$A> <#/>By the way By the way that's <-/>that's <-/>that's normally how it is yeah <#/>I've come to realise they quite know <#/>You find <ea/>ati <ea/>ati I’m pushing with a certain lady <#/>We’ve gone out for a couple of years by the way <#/>This time me I am going out with her like let’s say tonight we <O/> in <-/>in a movie theatre <#/>Tomorrow I  buy her lunch we walk in <O/> place and feeling many times there’s another guy much older than me <#/>He's buddy busy reading a accounts or reading you know law  <#/>He’s <-/>he’s <-/>he’s finalising his profession <ea/>Ama <&_>Kiswahili: or either<&/> he’s busy now just entering into the profession <ea/>ama you know in his career <#/>He’s setting <O/> <#/>And then once he get the he gets the economical you know the <-/>the financial standing <#/>Now you just come and <O/> her off from here and you know she goes and <#/>You can imagine how when you backtracked with this date <O/> <#/>And I was still shining with her and you know and someone was <./>re busy making you know colours <O/> for her and uh
<$C> <#/>I think we have a <#/>Somehow we have committed a fallacy <#/>We cannot generalise the talk because there is this thing called love <#/>Money can’t <./>b <-/>can’t buy me love 
<$A> <#/>Yeah but it's true but in <-/>in <-/>in the sense that she might not take the money because of 
<$C> <#/>love
</I>
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<I> <$C> <#/>Do you <-_>do you<-/> imply <-_>Do you imply<-/> that relationships nowadays are structured on economic grounds
<$B> <#/>No <#/>Not wholly <#/>We don't want to make generalisations <#/>We are taking
<$A> <#/>I didn't say that <#/>I said however much the <O/> relationships may not necessarily so much so be because of the economic bit of it it could be love but still the fact is the babe I’m pushing with today chances of me marrying her are not a<./>re not so high <#/>Okay  probably for the age yes but you know those that teenage thing it's normally just popular you know <#/>You start Hey this is my babe <#/>Shortly you change to somebody else and then somebody else you know 
<$B> <#/>And me if <-/>if such a thing would happen to me I don't abstain totally 
<$A> <#/>It's so natural why not It’s just like you <O/> and then you came to <O/>
<$D> <#/>abstain from what Opela
<$B> <#/>From making friends <O/>
<$A> <#/>No <-/>no I mean it's so healthy to <#/>It's there is no problem <#/>The only <-_>The only<-/> fact is it's <-/>it's a reality like <-/>like okay I've had a girlfriend <#/>Now the relationship is over I mean when <-/>when <-/>when we are the guys believe you me I’ll tell you uh <#/>Us guys are getting married  getting married you know <#/>We are into the real thing you know <#/>And things happen you realise <#/>Oh okay <#/>The marriage was postponed or rather put off 
<$?> <#/>Indefinitely 
<$B> <#/>Uh In this case what <-/>what can you do <#/>You just indulge but you make sure that you don’t indulge so much  <#/>But the problem 
<$A> <#/>No you make <#/>You make friends you make uh <#/>You actually uh I personally I believe it's healthy <#/>I mean you learn so much <#/>So that when you have the <-/>the person you're really you know uh serious with you’ll not be making some funny <-/>funny errors 
<$D> <#/>In fact that was what I 
<$C> <#/>I’m not a person who makes trials and errors <#/>You make a trial and it’s the thing the real thing <#/>You are very serious about it <#/>And you play your part even if the part is not played by the other party <#/>Then it's not a mistake 
<$B> <#/>This is why I'm saying that there is a problem <#/>We <-/>We don't know where to draw the line between uh the <-/>the real the <-/>the <-_>the real<-/> <#/>Okay if I may use the term courtship <O/> this discussion
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>If we can't draw that line it <-/>it is difficult to draw it and <-/>and maybe to identify someone who is not wholly committed <#/>If it's the man he might be cheating the lady that oh you know whereby you are the one and <-/>and you are mean a lot to me and <-/>and such like sweet nothings if I may say so  <#/>If it’s the <-_>If it’s the<-/> lady she might also put all the <-_>all the<-/> all those kinds of words whenever they meet one another <#/>But finally one of them is going to disappoint the other yeah <#/>There's a problem you can you can't <-_>you can't<-/> tell who is cheating and who is  giving true love
<$D> <#/>Therefore you've identified the problem <O/>
<$B> <#/>You can't <#/>Okay this is what I'm trying to get from you <#/>I'm saying that it's hard for me to draw that line so what can you do 
<$D> <#/>Between a problem and a solution or between problems
<$B> <#/>Okay it is between uh uh <#/>Maybe you did not get me clearly or maybe I’m not the one who is getting you clearly <#/>I'm saying it's very difficult to draw a line between the one who is uh giving true love and one who is cheating the other
<$A> <#/>You are right <#/>Because me honestly speaking okay some relationships me I look at them like this uh I just wonder I mean uh is it for conveniences purposes or is it for the <-_>for the<-/> fact that we are in this age so in this age people normally have girlfriends so even me I have one <#/><O/> some just don’t think serious you know <#/>Okay some look serious but you can just see that honestly is isn’t it <#/>They are you know like uh skewed you know <#/>It's <-/bended> <#/>on one side and you know someone is <#/>I don’t know
<$D> <#/>But on this line I think I can support ladies because most people who are serious about relationships <O/> courtships they are ladies <O/> <#/>Guys are never serious 
<$C> <#/><O/> Can you <-_>Can you<-/> substantiate 
<$D> <#/>I have a lot of friends who tell me how they can probably uh <#/>This lady she's <-/>she’s just there for a short short-term basis and then I <-/>I know <-_>I know<-/> the person I will marry <#/>Not this kind <#/>She's just here to I don’t know <#/>The guy is biding his time <#/>Therefore but for ladies you approach a lady and ask her How do you think about your guy <#/>She'll tell you that <-/>that is the guy of my dreams probably imagining getting one of his sons or daughters <#/>They think very far <#/>But for guys I'm telling you they just see someone very close either just for marriage 
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>I I'm saying most guys not all guys <#/>I'm making myself clear <#/>Most guys <#/>And most people who are serious <#/>I repeat once again are ladies about relationships <#/>Though if you find some who are not serious that is ladies then just regret why you fell in love in the first place  <#/>Because they can torment you uh
<$A> <#/>'Till all hell breaks loose 
<$D> <#/>Otherwise we'll have to wait and see <#/>Experience is 
<$B> <#/>the best teacher
<$D> <#/>Yes 
<$?> <#/><O/> best lecturer 
<$D> <#/>the best lecturer
<$B> <#/><O/> I think there’s this thing we wanted to talk about <#/>What happens when  a person dies 
<$A> <#/><O/> uh see I saw <-_>I saw<-/> you in the <-_>in the<-/> student centre <#/>You came briefly and disappeared 
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>What was not happening
<$B> <#/>What <-/>What <-/>What I expected was not happening 
<$A> <#/>What did you expect
<$B> <#/>I expected 
<$A> <#/>What did you get
<$B> <#/>Yeah surely and uh <-/>and uh in this situation I thought that uh maybe it was supposed to be a meeting between those uh visitors from Makerere University 
<$A> <#/>they meant it to be a <-/>a meeting uh and then
<$B> <#/>between Makerere students and uh <-/>and <O/>officials or <-/>or <O/> members
<$A> <#/>Okay
<$B> <#/>So and I went there and found out okay it was some kind of a <-/>a just a general discussion okay involving uh students from all <-/>all <-/>all <-/>all units uh I mean all courses and all associations within the university <#/>So I was not expecting that and <-/>and therefore I paused for a for some time and tried to listen what they were discussing about and I could not catch up with it and I just left again
<$A> <#/>Uh we were <-_>we were<-/> discussing pan-Africanism <#/><./>Wha What do you think of pan-Africanism 
<$D> <#/>On pan-Africanism I can talk a lot courtesy of
<$A> <#/>Generally
<$D> <#/>Professor Ali Mazrui I know 
<$A> <#/>Shortly Briefly
<$D> <#/>Very briefly pan-Africanism should I say at initially it was a Negro movement but nowadays it's a movement of governments in Africa in the Caribbean 
<$A> <#/>Okay a movement of governments but <./>wha what are <-_>what are<-/> you going to boil down is that does pan-Africanism really exist truly speaking
<$D> <#/>You know it depends from which school of thought you are arguing from <#/>If you are a Eurocentric definitely you will say that this thing is a myth <#/>If you are Afrocentric you will say it's a reality <#/>Do you know why even these scholars we think that they <-/>they <O/> <#/>They have some kind of bias whereby if from a Eurocentric perspective you cannot argue that pan-Africanism is a reality <#/>Mazrui argues from an Afrocentric and says it is a reality and we have five types of pan-Africanism and goes out to <-/>to delineate <-_this><+_these> kinds of pan-Africanisms whereby we have this <./>sub uh sub-Saharan pan-Africanism about the black country scene black Africa the so-called sub-Saharan Africa We have this other one which links us with these people who are uh Arabs 
<$B> <#/>The <./>no <-/>the northern
<$D> <#/>Yeah the northerners by arguing that though there is the Sahara desert in between 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>Yeah the this <./>bri this Sahara desert is more of a bridge than a death trap <#/>When you go to the <./>Cari Caribbean islands we find that there is this <./>west western-hemispheric pan-Africanism whereby we have uh these people coming together having uh unions that can uh cater for their welfare because of being <./>ensel enslaved together 
<$B> <#/>That is <./>whi which region 
<$D> <#/>The western-hemispheric region Caribbean islands and  that kind of things <#/>Then we have this kind of transatlantic pan-Africanism whereby the black Americans or the so-called African-Americans nowadays link up with <-_this><+_these> <#/>sub-Saharan and <./>transatlan <./>tran trans-Saharan pan-Africanists and argue that uh we are all blacks <#/>We've been through hard times together <#/>These governments have been very rough to for us <#/>And then the whole thing is encompassed in the global pan-Africanism <#/>And that is what I think Oscar is asking about <#/>And therefore it <-/>it all depends from where you are arguing
<$B> <#/>School of thought
<$D> <#/>Yeah 
<$A> <#/>But how is the consciousness <#/>Pan-Africanism viewed as <-_a> consciousness was a was more or less a psychic spiritual thing you know You are conscious of uh your values as <-/>as <-/>as <-/>as blacks you know as uh <-/>as you try to bring that unity amongst you a unifying factor which is a uh being from Africa being black and uh having finished you know marginalisation in terms of economic and uh political stress from <-/>from the outside world yeah <#/>Just how much <#/>Just how much of that is in <-_>is in the<-/> <-_>is in the<-/> common man today 
<$D> <#/>One problem is that in Africa especially Africa <./>sou sub-Saharan Africa we have a problem with culture <#/>You know culture is a very simple word that people just pass by <#/>But if you sit down and analyse what culture is all about you come to realise that in sub-Saharan Africa we have a cultural crisis identity crisis whereby people disrespect their culture <#/>And this is unheard of <-_>unheard of<-/> in any part of world <#/>People are very very uh serious about their culture <#/>But in Africa we have a problem People don't want to identify with their so-called traditional beliefs simply because they've been told <./>the these beliefs are primitive uncivilised barbaric <#/>You name them <#/>Therefore without first of all sitting down and reconstructing what was destroyed by colonialism and its predecessor uh slavery and such kind of things or its successor neo-colonialism right now I don't think we are going anywhere This is a problem that faced African countries on the eve of independence <#/>Instead of these leaders sitting down and discussing how to reconstruct this culture that has been that had been at least destroyed by all those years of colonialism they embarked on trying to achieve economic dreams for example industrialisation without taking into consideration that these people have to be sensitised that they are black <#/>They have to be sensitised that they have a common cause with the other blacks in all those spheres Mazrui observes <#/>We just have to sit down and we say okay Minister of Finance do something about the budget <#/>Do something about this <#/>Therefore there is no way people can be conscious of pan-Africanism and yet we do not do something about our culture <#/>And that is why it doesn't have a a lot of adherents in Africa 
<$B> <#/>And just to add on what you are talking about maybe if I <-/>I may go to <-/>to the grass-root level that even to identify ourselves uh with our own nation-state has been a problem in some of the African states such that uh there is this factor that has been hindering this <-/>this consciousness at the larger level of I mean <./>pan-Akr pan-Africanism at <-/>at that <-_>at that<-/> level because one thing ethnicity is a major factor <#/>People do identify themselves in most cases with their ethnic groups and <-/>and the ethnic origins rather than with their own nation as a whole first of all I mean nation-state <#/>And uh <-/>and it’s from this level <./>where whereby we uh <-/>we might come together and uh okay <#/>As a result of this <-/conscienceness> we might come together and uh <-/>and uh be unified as blacks within Africa or blacks within the <./>eth ethnic continental level <#/>So ethnicity is a major hindrance 
<$D> <#/>Okay 
<$?> <#/>Okay we
<$D> <#/>What were they discussing there
<$A> <#/>Somebody presented a paper so-called a paper <#/>She talked about pan-Africanism <#/>Then
<$B> <#/>Was she from <-/>from here
<$A> <#/>From Uganda <#/>Then uh the reactions from the floor where people criticised people added people refuted and uh basically that was it <#/>One thing is that at the end of my view was like I was really just wondering just how much pan-Africanists are we <#/></I>
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<I> <$A> <#/>You know there are things like we wouldn’t we would yeah <-_>we wouldn't<-/> uh you wouldn’t take your grandpa to <-/>to <-/>to a grandfather uh grandparents' home <#/>That <-/>That concept hasn't quite dawned on African society <#/>And when they come visiting they’d still be treated with you know that kind of respect you know that that's the thing that's in uh that that’s not physical culture as such <#/>But what remains like when you just look around <#/>Okay physical or uh uh the non-physical culture <#/>There’s so much of it exists even like in this hall <-_>this hall<-/> of ours <#/>If you just take each and every individual and you can quantify that okay he has this measure of culture our traditional culture in him still <#/>Just what you know <#/>What percentage of uh the population in let’s say the students in this hall would <-/>would come up <O/> where they still hold our culture dearly and I mean from the onset you just look at it it looks like it's fast eroding It's eroding pretty fast 
<$B> <#/>Very fast in fact even the percentage is really insignificant <#/>You can't
<$A> <#/>Okay probably that that's <-/>that's uh regional uh <#/>But that as much as we are here we never see any of that <#/>But then when you do start travelling around you definitely see those huts <./>gra grass-thatched roofs you know and that's physical culture you see <#/>And then uh very many other things but you'd agree with me that in the first place yeah so much of it has been lost where like you <-/>you <-/>you <-/>you uh think about when uh some communities would go to the shrine to worship uh a certain traditional god <#/>You know when <-/>when <-/>when uh probably some <-/>some <-/>some cultures still hold it in that for them when someone dies there's just so much you know uh <-_>there's so much<-/> <-_>there's so much<-/> don't dos and dos that have to you know go about with the funeral but still at the end of the day they <-/>they <-/>they have changed yeah <#/>There’s some dynamism in it <#/>It probably isn't what it used to be you know like for the Luo when they say they <-/>they really cherish funerals yeah but probably it's not what it used to be exactly you know taken back to three generations uh I think 
<$B> <#/>It it's quite different in a way
<$A> <#/>I think it uh funerals used to be something <O/> <#/>Well we can't blame anybody when there's a <-_>there's a<-/> strong influence from another culture what <-/>what would you expect <#/>Or what do you guys think
<$D> <#/>What I think about this whole affair of culture is that we're the problem <#/>In fact it's identified by Professor <name/> that when these people came they came with their own culture <#/>And the African culture was supplanted by this foreign culture <#/>And in order I think in order to try to re-establish what was in fact my <./>obje my prime objection is we miss immaterial culture erosion <#/>Not material culture as such <#/>Material culture has nothing to do with it <#/>What is immaterial is always more important because it reflects how you think how you respect people how you obey them such kind of things the <-/>the way you dress <#/>There is no problem with this European dress <#/>The problem is how we and when we wear these things because the 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>Yeah <#/>For example mini-skirts <#/>It was in the immaterial culture of the Africans most Africans that a lady should not display her thighs <#/>The European brought a long dress and a short one <#/>Now where is the problem <#/>If she wears the long dress she will have betrayed the material culture of wearing skins <#/>When she wears the short one she betrays both you see the material and immaterial culture <#/>This is where the problem lies 
<$A> <#/>Okay like now uh there's this <-_>there's this<-/> thing about wife inheritance <#/>In light of what you know would you <-_>would you<-/> like uphold such a culture
<$C> <#/>There is no problem with wife inheritance
<$D> <#/>In fact I was at Mary's place 
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$D> <#/>and I had to run away from that discussion  because it was Mary and another guy called <name/> <#/>They introduced that wife inheritance <#/>And I was quiet for around seven minutes  listening to them
<$B> <#/>That’s a very long time
<$D> <#/>because there was one day this the Philosophical Students' Association held this debate about <O/> and <name/> presented a paper yes <#/>And then we discussed that paper for around two hours and <name/> said this so-called wife inheritance is a connotation from a Eurocentric point of view <#/>What we have is a companionship <#/>He used very good words 
<$B> <#/>to refer to that practice
<$A> <#/>I <-/>I <-/>I think that is clothing quinine in sugar
<$D> <#/>We have uh <#/>Yeah 
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>Therefore he said it’s <-/>it’s wife guardianship family guardianship a lot of terms 
<$A> <#/>I think <-_>I think<-/> okay did he specify what <-/>what the so-called quote unquote wife inheritance implies
<$D> <#/>The whole affair <#/>Briefly he said it like this <#/>A wife who is a widow uh may decide whether or not even according to the Luo traditional customs whether or not she will be inherited quote unquote <#/>And if she decides she will be inherited she decides among the brothers of the clan she is in <#/>You know he was arguing for 
<$?> <#/><O/> 
<$B> <#/>I think no I think what <-/>what it should be or what it used to be is this that it was <-/>it <-/>was  like this <#/>When <-/>When the husband died the widow had no choice other than being inherited because for one thing  she was regarded yeah she was regarded as the property I mean as <-/>as the member a member of that family you see In fact he was married to 
<$A> <#/><O/>even when <-_>even when<-/> he is alive <#/>The minute you get married in the African culture or rather in the <-_>in the<-/> Euro-culture we became part and parcel of the family where the man comes from
<$D> <#/>That is true <#/>That is what Mr <name/> said
<$B> <#/>Yeah he said so
<$A> <#/>To an <./>e <-_>To an<-/> extent that when you die you cannot be buried by your dad <#/>You're buried by your in-laws <#/>Yes to the extent that when he dies someone has to <#/>Okay there <-/>there <-/>there are virtues that went with it <#/>This guy who inherited you was there to take over the roles of the brother providing for you you know uh taking care of you and his children <#/>And in any case fulfilling each and every role that goes with it
<$C> <#/>Yeah that is what I understand I can remember very well
<$A> <#/>But you see at the end of the day I <O/> <#/>He defended <O/> guardianship or what calling it wife inheritance is not a really <#/>Because after all uh what is inheritance <#/>When my dad dies I take over his empire yeah <#/>And it’s a business empire for manufacturing textiles I take over and I'm the boss now <#/>I'm the man 
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>And uh from henceforth the decisions that have <O/> are made for by me <#/>In other words I run the company <#/>So by me inheritance inherits the wife he assumes each and every role so to speak
<$C> <#/>Yes
<$A> <#/>And provide for the children and give advice <#/>Well you know after all your my wife <O/>
<$D> <#/>Yeah I remember that that discussion took two hours and when we were standing with Mr <name/> outside there in that corner then we discussed for another two hours <#/>The questions are these <#/>In fact Mary was asking <name/> <name/> is a Luo
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>A
<$A> <#/>Oh Mary <#/>Mary is a Luo uh
<$D> <#/>Yeah <#/>Does the present situation in the country call for such kind of customs to be continually you know practised by these uh <#/>You know the society has changed <#/>She was arguing the society has changed <#/>Therefore does the present economic situation justify such a condition if at all the wife is in a position to sustain her family 
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>React to that 
<$A> <#/>What I would say is <#/>I mean you don't need we don't need the economic conditions as such to make us lose that one <#/>Supposing uh she was able to or supposing she was not able to <#/>Don't you think like the thought today's thought process who do you marry you marry I marry someone I love 
<$C> <#/>Yes that's true
<$A> <#/>You marry <-_>you marry<-/> someone you love to the extent that your dad would tell you marry Jane <#/>You go and get your Anne wherever you fished her from <#/>Whatever is in her that made you like her whatever is in you that made her like you it's all up to the two of you it's mutual <#/>That's what matters <#/>You get married <#/>Now your younger brother here gets married to so and so <#/>Okay yeah <#/>Now your younger brother's wife dies <#/>So would you inherit her even if it's not the economic factor <#/>With today's kind of reasoning and uh viewpoint towards <O/> <#/>First of all if uh <-/>if you are for it then you'd be much so a <./>pro or <-/>a potential polygamist to be able to think of having two wives yeah <#/>And then for me to think of taking my younger brother's uh wife to the full extent <#/>I mean we can help her that one is for sure <#/>I mean she's part of family <#/>Yeah if she really cannot economically we can chip in economically and help economically <#/>But not to the extent of bringing her to my house or you know integrating her into my blood family and <#/>You see 
<$D> <#/>Yeah I understand
<$A> <#/>It's also a matter of if <-/>if <-/>if you're marrying because I think before you you’d actually even know your <-/>your bride on the last day as in far taking it very much behind 
<$?> <#/>According to the African tradition 
<$A> <#/>You <./>nev <-/>you never used to choose as such <#/>The ladies never did have a choice as such <#/>You are just being told uh you come from a <-/>a family that is well known to be you know doctors <#/>There’s another family there who are doctors as well or blacksmiths and blacksmiths and you know <#/>It will be done for you like I know he’s got a very good son <#/>It’s a reputable family and we’d like to have association with and you <./>ha <-/>you have no choice <#/>You see at that time the individual wasn’t really  prepared
<$B> <#/><O/> 
<$A> <#/>It was a social thing so that even if you <-_>if you<-/> <#/>You see first of all your wife was brought to you <#/>So if you are brought for another one then who cares <O/> you go out and choose <#/>And you say I just cannot have a relationship with Anne because she is x y z <#/>I can have with so and so because I like this thing about her <#/>I like this personality about her <#/>I love her <#/>You know <#/>Then when someone pours off another <-/>another lady to your side to <-/>to call your wife you wouldn’t accept it whether it’s economical also or not you see <#/>You get my point 
<$D> <#/>Yeah we understand you 
<$C> <#/>You can <#/>Can you <O/> this yeah <#/>How about in a situation whereby somebody plans the death of this husband eyes the wife and conspires 
<$A> <#/>You see okay
<$D> <#/>Nowadays 
<$C> <#/>I don’t care about nowadays
<$A> <#/>However good the <-/>the wife inheritance thing was as per 
<$D> <#/>Those days 
<$A> <#/>This <-/>This guy who you were talking to 
<$C> <#/>Okay
<$A> <#/><O/> One thing is for sure that it had its negative effects <#/>I mean what is if my <-_>if my<-/> brother has married a <-/>a cute wife 
<$D> <#/>
<$A> <#/>uh wouldn’t I wish for his death  <#/>You <-/>You wouldn’t be surprised <O/>
<$B> <#/>You can’t avoid it <#/>Even if you suppress it that is still there in <-/>in you that at least you <-/>you <-/>you have that feeling that you 
<$A> <#/><./>Wa You wait till he dies  you know <#/>You’d be so willing to take over 
<$D> <#/>But do you know <./>the there is a lot of responsibility that goes with this so-called wife inheritance let uh <-/>let alone the role <#/>You know there is only one role people think about 
<$A> <#/>There there’s so much <#/>There’s so much
<$D> <#/>How about the <-/>the other things I think I can show her from <$B> <#/>This is <-_>This is<-/> why 
<$C> <#/>Because of other responsibilities]
<$A> <#/>But you see <#/>Okay you might shy away but shy away but one thing is for sure like as we were saying if it was mandatory it’s another thing <O/>
<$D> <#/>obligatory
<$A> <#/>Yeah  and after all she’s tired  <O/>
<$D> <#/><O/> Opela tell us something
<$B> <#/>I think what <-/>what maybe <name/> was implying and maybe what I should hold as my own personal views is this that this thing <-/>this uh <-/>this issue when <-/>when somebody’s husband is dead then the decision should be left for <-/>for <-/>for the woman to make 
</I>
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<I> <$A> <#/>And how much did they go for
<$B> <#/>I don’t know <O/>
<$A> <#/>It's a present you're given by someone or something 
<$C> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Why uh <#/>Do you know I hadn’t seen 
<$C> <#/>This <-/>this pen of yours is dead <#/>This pen of yours is dead 
<$A> <#/>I knew it <#/>That pen has a problem <#/>Let me just get you another one because that <O/>
<$D> <#/><-/>aha  Tony and <name/>
<$B> <#/><O/> some protection here uh 
<$C> <#/>Okay Okay <O/> 
<$B> <#/>The boy has to be <./>prote protected uh
<$A> <#/>Uh that's good <O/>
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>What is that 
<$A> <#/>Just some things I mean <O/>
<$B> <#/>She got it from there also 
<$D> <#/>From some teeny <O/> he brings to me
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/><ea/>Ati
<$B> <#/><ea/>Ati <ea/>chiromo 
<$D> <#/>I’ve seen enough people with this thing 
<$B> <#/>Where are you going 
<$D> <#/><O/> buy from that teeny
<$B> <#/>How much 
<$D> <#/>One fifty 
<$A> <#/>I think it's
<$B> <#/>One fifty
<$D> <#/>It was one fifty
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/> This thing doesn't chuck <#/>It can't chuck this <-/>this place 
<$B> <#/>I think so <O/>
<$C> <#/>By the way do you <-_>do you<-/> <-_>do you<-/> go swimming 
<$B> <#/>Me 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>Uh <O/> Why 
<$C> <#/>I was just asking if it's water-proof <O/>
<$B> <#/>No but <O/> I go to shower <#/>I remove but sometimes I forget 
<$A> <#/>Let me see <#/>Let me ask you where <./>wh there is a note that <O/>
<$B> <#/>Yeah behind 
<$D> <#/>Behind <O/> Kamba 
<$A> <#/>As you said Kabisa
<$D> <#/>So you did the wrong thing 
<$?> <#/>I am done <#/>See you people
<$B> <#/><ea/>Baadaye 
<$D> <#/>See you 
<$B> <#/>What do you say 
<$C> <#/>That it’s <-/>it’s <O/>
<$B> <#/>I think it is this <-/chut> <-/>chut stuff
<$A> <#/> they are going for ten bob <#/>Some very nice things 
<$D> <#/>Yeah 
<$A> <#/>You wonder why they are so cheap you know 
<$D> <#/><O/> why I never trust them 
<$A> <#/>So guys go like <ea/>hapana <O/>
<$C> <#/><O/> in fact it was just this weekend <O/>
<$B> <#/><ea/>Akamba
<$C> <#/>Uh recklessly <O/> listen we’re not in a hurry 
<$A> <#/>And you <./>kn and <ea/>Akambas usually they they’re slow uh 
<$D> <#/>They are always <O/> 
<$C> <#/>You know during I hear during the day is when they are slow <#/>At night <O/>
<$D> <#/>Ah they are fast at night  because
<$B> <#/>But they have those inspectors on the road
<$C> <#/>Yeah  <O/> like a corporation 
<$A> <#/>Yeah  but talk about 
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$D> <#/>In fact they are selling <O/> at uh Nakuru 
<$B> <#/>Yeah 
<$D> <#/>They really took time
<$B> <#/>So they don’t come up with 
<$C> <#/>Yeah that It’s like that guy had his own missions <ea/>yani 
<$A> <#/>Then me I <-/>I usually imagine <ea/>Akamba is this the most reliable <O/> 
<$B> <#/>It’s <./>ac It’s actually 
<$A> <#/>Yeah of course Stage Coach yeah
<$D> <#/>But it’s uncomfortable yeah
<$C> <#/>Stage Coach 
<$A> <#/>Stage Coach 
<$?> <#/>
<$D> <#/><ea/>Kwanza there is <O/> part of the seats where you guys are looking at one another you know 
<$C> <#/>Yeah that’s <-/>that’s the double deck
<$B> <#/>Yeah the double deck
<$A> <#/>The double deck
<$D> <#/>No Not the double deck even the single deck
<$D> <#/>Even no the single <O/>
<$A> <#/><O/> the ones that travel far 
<$C> <#/>No  the express ones no
<$D> <#/>It’s only the double 
<$A> <#/>Really 
<$C> <#/>Yeah  cause you know they have to maximise <O/>
<$A> <#/>And you know by the way it’s  you know the space between your legs is just <ea/>kidogo like this as in you guys you have to look at one another 
<$D> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/><O/> stretch 
<$D> <#/>At some level you look look and look 
<$A> <#/>You know <O/>
<$C> <#/>But those things they are quite <#/>They are quite <ea/>nini <#/>They are quite stable yeah <#/>They are just like you know like <#/>Okay try it <O/> but upcountry <O/>
<$A> <#/>Imagine me I don’t  I don’t wish 
<$A> <#/>Me I don’t wish 
<$B> <#/>You see the problem every small <ea/>kamove is exaggerated <O/> <#/>But I’ve used it to KU and it was fine because I could sit inside the 
<$D> <#/>Were you up or you down
<$B> <#/>I was up 
<$C> <#/>You see that <ea/>nini <O/>
<$B> <#/>Which one
<$C> <#/>
<$B> <#/><O/> Nyayo Bus Co-operation place <O/> 
<$A> <#/>You know that is over <#/>It’s over <O/> 
<$B> <#/><O/> Nyayo buses we used to see those days 
<$A> <#/>Yeah They <-/>they were enough
<$B> <#/>Some have no
<$D> <#/>And then one donated them to schools 
<$C> <#/>They’re <-/>They’re all imported you know <#/>Things that are made for those western you know uh roads And they come here uh 
<$A> <#/>They have no spare parts uh 
<$D> <#/>They were not being maintained <#/>Nothing was being done 
<$B> <#/><O/> Those guys could ask for consultancy from like uh Stage Coach 
<$C> <#/>Yeah Me I think it <ea/>nini <#/>I think it was a matter of uh expense of importing spare parts <#/>You look at those <-/>those trucks <O/> IVECOS 
<$B> <#/>IVECOS 
<$C> <#/>Uh 
<$B> <#/>Now it’s Tata
<$D> <#/>Tata 
<$A> <#/>Tata is <#/>It’s uh 
<$?> <#/>It's <O/> <ea/>mahindra stuff  
<$A> <#/>They are built here in Kenya 
<$C> <#/><O/> it’s an Indian thing 
<$A> <#/>Okay <#/>Those Kamsoon things
<$B> <#/>Yeah Kamsoon makers 
<$D> <#/><O/>
<$C> <#/><O/> sold through Marshall's uh
<$C> <#/>Oh yeah <#/>Tata is sold to Marshall's
<$C> <#/>And when you buy the bus you buy a built one
<$B> <#/>Oh yeah
<$A> <#/>What about  this green Stage Coach <#/>What about this green double deck <#/>Is it a Stage Coach 
<$B> <#/><O/> Consolidated
<$C> <#/>Which green one <#/>Is there a green one 
<$A> <#/>There’s a <ea/>kafunny green <O/> 
<$C> <#/>Stage Coach a big one
<$A> <#/>A very big one green 
<$C> <#/>For what
<$A> <#/>Double 
<$B> <#/>Consolidated Bank as in they have bought 
<$A> <#/>They <./>bo Uh Okay 
<$B> <#/>As in you only see Stage Coach behind there 
<$A> <#/>You just see a <./>ka Yeah 
<$C> <#/><O/> it’s <-/>it’s much bigger than the <ea/>kawaa 
<$B> <#/>No it's <ea/>kwaida <O/>
<$A> <#/>Well it's <ea/>kawaa but it’s green 
<$B> <#/>It’s just like they how they used advertise <O/>
<$all> Yeah 
<$B> <#/>That thing used to look <ea/>nzuri 
<$A> <#/>Now this one is all green 
<$D> <#/>It’s all green though it looks bigger
<$B> <#/>That Consolidated <O/> <ea/>sijui what's what 
<$C> <#/>It just looks well and then you <-/>you know what I thought it was a staff bus
<$A> <#/>You know me too <#/>I thought it was a staff bus
<$C> <#/><O/> they pay Stage Coach 
<$D> <#/>Yeah to advertise in their bus 
<$A> <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>I mean life is funny like <-/>like the other day who <-/>who <-/>who found us over there outside the <slang/>lib uh registering members for <O/>
<$D> <#/>I was there 
<$C> <#/>Yeah I hear even to do that you have to ask for permission <ea/>yaani
<$B> <#/>In campus here
<$C> <#/>Yeah You just don’t bring a table and then you decide <ea/>eti you want a 
<$B> <#/> So where do you go
<$A> <#/>You have to ask a permit for a permit or something
<$C> <#/>Yeah from the dean or something 
<$D> <#/>Oh you have to have a letter 
<$A> <#/>So much bureaucracy uh 
<$D> <#/>Uh 
<$B> <#/>And if you do that <O/>
<$B> <#/>Uh please 
<$B> <#/><O/> permit <#/>You have to apply <#/>I mean they have to know what is cutting
<$A> <#/>So much formalities and all
<$D> <#/>Yeah of course like <-/>like these meetings <O/> <name/> he was telling us like for Rotaract Club they want to have a meeting in hall six <O/> they are told Huh you <-/>you just don’t come for a meeting like that <#/>You write letters what <-/>what <#/>They have to sign
<$A> <#/>There was this time where there was a bash yeah <O/> <#/>So like we stayed up for so long and we were making so much noise <#/>So the custodian came <O/> first of all did you people have permission to hold this bash in the room you know <#/>We were like <O/> please for heaven’s sake like when else you know <#/>It was like you have to have permission <O/> to hold a bash and then in fact they can even give you a room like maybe like the aerobics room or the tennis room down there <O/> formalities <#/><O/> the guy was being mad at us <O/> cause we were making noise <#/><O/> it was in Aida's room and Aida is the chairlady of the WASWA so at least <O/>
<$C> <#/>But believe you me those bureaucracies help <#/>If anything ever happened and if someone went with a went back to her room without one leg 
<$A> <#/> Yeah actually yeah yeah
<$D> <#/>It would cure
<$C> <#/><O/> Then you know it's them who are going to be blamed yeah <ea/>eti did you guys give these guys permission  <O/>
<$A> <#/>Yeah actually yeah when you come to think of it on those sides
<$C> <#/>You know bureaucracy is bureaucracy <#/>It’s really a a bog down you know so many procedures but at the end of the day
<$A> <#/>At the end of the day it has some 
<$A> <#/><ea/>karibuni
<$?> <#/><ea/>saa Vero
<$?> <#/>Yvonne
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$?> <#/>May I see you please
<$A> <#/>Okay <#/>Excuse me you guys uh 
<$?> <#/>All right <ea/>sawa
<$C> <#/>Imagine my cousin got an accident uh <#/>And then uh her <-/>her leg was hanging 
<$D> <#/>Accident <O/> road accident 
<$C> <#/>So her leg <-/>Her <-/>leg <#/>The seat <-/>The <-/>seat came back and uh cut the leg <#/>Uh it entangled the leg <#/>It broke uh okay uh her knees got broken <#/>And then she was telling me flesh was just hanging <#/>And she was telling these guys <O/> <#/>She was telling these guys You guys all I want is you guys give me first aid <#/>She was bleeding profusely yeah <#/>And then these guys are saying <ea/>hapana it's a police case here
<$D> <#/>They were waiting for the police 
<$C> <#/>No Not that <#/>Not that they were waiting for police <#/>But they have to write a statement first and then uh you can go ahead and you <O/> can imagine <ea/>yaani <O/> <#/>There are guys who can't just look at such a sight <#/>Even on a movie you know you <#/>Me I can imagine your leg you see flesh is just hanging you know and then somebody is telling you you have to <O/> statement because this is <-_>this is<-/> police case <O/> After that they can take you to the hospital <#/>I tell you I <-/>I <-/>I think some guys just actually die out of uh 
<$D> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>And she was <O/>
<$C> <#/>No she was just given first aid and then she was brought to this uh hospital there in Nairobi <O/>
<$B> <#/>And the lady is fine now
<$D> <#/>Brought up to Nairobi 
<$C> <#/>Okay she was taken <O/> Moi uh hospital <#/>She was treated <-/>treated and then uh <O/>
<$B> <#/>She’s still in <slang/>hosi now 
<$D> <#/>And then the leg also broke <-/>broke 
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>When did she get the accident 
<$C> <#/>Some uh uh probably three weeks ago
<$D> <#/>Uh those road accidents <#/>They are scary
<$B> <#/>Why <-/>Why <-/>Why is Vero maintaining a low profile like that 
<$E> <#/><O/> He's coming back <#/>He's coming back
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$E> <#/>Yes 
<$D> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/><O/> some polite respect 
<$B> <#/>Uh please 
<$?> <#/>At the end of the day it works you know 
<$C> <#/><O/> situation 
<$?> <#/>No wonder how we feel like a good <O/> feminist  
<$C> <#/>But imagine it’s a plot <ea/>yaani <#/>And you walk somewhere you have to be recognised <O/> shortly
<$?> <#/>You have to enjoy every bit of it
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/><ea/>Wazee uh <#/>You’re walking somewhere and you’re really <#/>Your presence is really realised <O/>
<$B> <#/>That's the thing called <O/>
<$A> <#/>Somehow people will even keep quiet and yes be noticed 
<$C> <#/><O/> They normally analyse the two of you <O/>  you guys don't match <O/> <#/>You know like people normally have so many <-_>so many<-/> ideas of how you know couples should be 
<$B> <#/>Like you know there was one time I had a babe complaining that <O/> was asking <ea/>ati <ea/>ati <ea/>ati what <O/> <ea/>ati how <-/>how did you get to meet that guy <O/> why uh <#/>That guy’s such a nice guy <#/><./>The Then the babe was like I mean are you trying to say that guy is too good for me  </I>
S1A011K
<I> <$D> <#/><O/> when someone asks you <O/>
<$C> <#/>By the way there's a day <#/>There's a day 
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$C> <#/>There's a day <-_>There's a day<-/> I had some <O/> two young girls <#/><O/> <ea/>ati my <-/>my old lady was my old man's first <O/> girlfriend and my old man was my old lady's first boyfriend <#/>I was wondering <O/> 
<$D> <#/>Those fine details
<$C> <#/>Yeah <ea/>bwana
<$D> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> maybe they want <-_>they want<-/> to tell <O/> you don’t have to hurry and just take your time you can never make <O/>
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Yeah they tried to <O/>
<$C> <#/><O/> keep you content 
<$A> <#/>Because I mean <./>ho how did she know <#/>How <./>d <-/>How did they <#/>How did that <ea/>kagirl know <#/>Maybe their mom told her  <#/>You know there are people who are so free 
<$C> <#/><O/> <ea/>yani then I told my grandfather <O/>
<$A> <#/><O/> was worse 
<$?> <#/>Let me tell you something <#/>Have you ever seen those old <O/> 
<$?> <#/>And now you should see 
<$A> <#/>People are complaining now <#/>But I’m telling you they used to have minis and those <O/> that you see people wearing these days  <#/>Yes <#/>They were there
<$C> <#/>So they were there that's why <O/>
<$?> <#/>I’m telling you <O/> 
<$C> <#/> it's a <-_>it's a<-/> <ea/>kali it's <ea/>kali like mine uh but it  <#/>You know it's <-/>it's straight but wavy you know <#/>Not like mine <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> cut here
<$?> <#/>Uh They used to have <#/>They have that cut 
<$?> <#/><O/> cut here 
<$?> <#/>Like Malcom X
<$?> <#/>Yeah Malcom X <O/>
<$B> <#/>Uh Malcom X
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>You know this snap of mine I took it when <O/> 
<$?> <#/>Yeah that one <O/> you posed like this 
<$?> <#/>Uh no <#/>You know it’s not the cameraman who told me to pose like this <#/>Uh Enough people have told me <ea/>ati uh you pose <O/>
<$C> <#/><O/> a guy is like this you know <O/> 
<$?> <#/>Yeah and the watch has to be seen <#/>I mean like that watch has to be seen
<$B> <#/>Have you heard this theory that black and white photos last longer than the coloured ones
<$C> <#/>Yeah I’ve <-/>I’ve <-/>I’ve heard that but <-/>but when it’s well done yeah it really looks good 
<$B> <#/><O/> long lasting <O/> what happens when it's becomes old you just go and you do it <ea/>sijui <O/>
<$C> <#/>'Cause uh the there is some truth in it in that uh <ea/>si coloured you have to use more chemicals and it’s this <./>decompo decomposition thing <#/>It's like newspapers you know after some time they just <O/> <#/>And then you know some of them are dumped so fast <O/>
<$D> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>It’s raining
<$all> <#/>It’s raining 
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>For sure 
<$B> <#/>Rain rain
<$?> <#/>Yeah it’s <-/>It’s raining 
<$?> <#/><O/> this rain
<$C> <#/>Please <O/>
<$?> <#/>Well I guess it’s only drizzling uh <#/>It's not so heavy as such
<$?> <#/>Do you hear it
<$C> <#/>Me I'm thinking someone is pouring some water <O/> 
<$?> <#/>For heaven’s sake for that long
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> used to be so so naughty <#/>So now like you go to the loo yeah <#/>Okay like in those sides of the classes there was one loo for the babes because it's like those the other ones maybe were locked when there was no water <O/> <#/>So you stay for long she asks you Is it that you are conjuring hot porridge you know
<$?> <#/>'Cause you have stuck for long
<$?> <#/>Or Or you <-/>you are passing from behind a sharp knife  sharp on both ends  <#/>That chick was naughty <#/>You know the pain and all <#/>Uh no
<$?> <#/><O/> umbrella uh
<$?> <#/>Yeah Yeah <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>No that was a <./>b <#/>That was a brolly 
<$?> <#/><O/> a brolly
<$?> <#/>Me I lose those things
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>There is another policy where you operate a small brolly <O/>
<$?> <#/>No <-/>No <-/>No Not for <-_>Not for<-/> that reason <ea/>yani   <#/>So when I <-/>When <-/>I chucked 
<$C> <#/>I <-/>I read it like this <O/> <ea/>kidogo <O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh me I think I <O/> brolly 
<$C> <#/><O/> I keep forgetting <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Me I especially me I leave them 
<$?> <#/>Me the big one <O/>
<$?> <#/><ea/>Kwanza those big ones are the ones I  very small and the most portable
<$C> <#/>You know the worst thing is you leave it in <O/> <#/>I mean can you prove that black and white umbrella was yours <#/>I mean there are so many 
<$?> <#/><O/> in such instances you just forget about your brolly 
<$?> <#/>What happened to <O/> 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>It was under renovation or something uh 
<$C> <#/>Which one <O/>
<$?> <#/>No one this one down here near
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>The one up there  have you gone to <O/> in Westlands 
<$?> <#/>That’s Masala now
<$C> <#/>I heard they have <ea/>nzuri meal 
<$?> <#/>They have good uh <#/>Their food generally <O/>
<$?> <#/>Their sauce is thick but sometimes it's <ea/>kali you can run away 
<$?> <#/>With flowing tears  <O/> 
<$?> <#/>Slash <#/>It’s vegetarian uh 
<$?> <#/>Somebody was telling me that they have good <ea/>masala there also  
<$?> <#/>It’s uh on 
<$?> <#/>What do you call that place
<$?> <#/>Uh this <ea/>kalane <#/>This <ea/>kalane after Visions 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/><O/> petrol station <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> the other side where you face the curios yeah
<$C> <#/>Yeah <./>i it’s a greenish <-/>greenish place 
<$all> <#/>No 
<$?> <#/>Red and blue 
<$?> <#/>It’s red 
<$C> <#/>There’s another time we went there to another place <#/>They had <O/> funny <ea/>masala <O/>
<$?> <#/>I’ve only taken their <ea/>bajias <#/>Their <ea/>bajias are okay
<$?> <#/>Where
<$?> <#/>Slash
<$?> <#/>How much are their <ea/>bajias
<$?> <#/>How much was it <#/>Thirty 
<$?> <#/>Plenty <ea/>ama <O/>  
<$?> <#/>And it’s vegetarian <#/>They don’t sell meaty things 
<$?> <#/><O/> Farmer’s Choice 
<$?> <#/>As you win your G or your what 
<$C> <#/>Do they still give you those presents 
<$?> <#/>No <#/>Okay of late I have not seen 
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/>How <-/>How true is that thing <ea/>yani 
<$?> <#/>What is happening there 
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> If you are found reading Nation newspaper you are given how much
<$?> <#/>A G
<$C> <#/>A G 
<$?> <#/>You are given a G on the spot 
<$?> <#/>Yeah 
<$?> <#/>Buy <#/>And then at the end of all that buying you don’t even get
<$?> <#/>Then in the morning Nation please
<$?> <#/>No <-/>No Taifa Taifa is the cheapest
<$?> <#/>Then you do like this man is a national G <O/>
<$?> <#/>He will only <O/> after you have already bought me
<$?> <#/>And now <O/> afford reading Nation <#/>How many guys <O/> read Nation surely 
<$?> <#/>Like the
<$C> <#/>Is it reading <ea/>ama buying
<$?> <#/>Reading or buying <#/>They spot even the village
<$?> <#/>Some particular people of course not like now <ea/>bwana sausage <#/>Now I don't know he used to <O/> the whole of town
<$C> <#/>Hasn't that guy <O/> <ea/>njaro somewhere <#/>He's just <-_>He's just<-/> taking his coffee <ea/>piga indoors and then they remember <O/> somebody is eating sausage he <-/>he should take a G  
<$?> <#/>He just used to shout Farmer's Choice 
<$?> <#/>I know you really have to show it yeah 
<$?> <#/>And then the guy wondered why didn't he say sausage  <#/>That's what we used to do when we were Kisumu <ea/>bwana
<$?> <#/>Just Farmer’s Choice 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh They were country-wide yeah
<$?> <#/>You know we really used to shout <O/> Farmer’s Choice 
<$C> <#/>See the next day <O/>  <#/>We went to another place of which we would have gone <O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh just like these things over here someone has 
<$?> <#/>Uh me I <-/>I watched once when that <ea/>kaboy won the car 
<$?> <#/>Uh and that chap who used to <O/> that thing has become fat yeah 
<$?> <#/>He’s big 
<$?> <#/>That guy he’s fat  the other time I met him here he was so fat
<$?> <#/>Uh that guy has become what's cutting <O/>
<$C> <#/>You see I don’t know <#/>He’s no <#/>He’s not <#/>I don’t know I find him fat in a funny way 
<$?> <#/>He’s obese <-/>eh 
<$?> <#/>He’s obese <ea/>si <ea/>ndio <#/>That's fit uh
<$?> <#/>Yeah the butt is just
<$?> <#/>And the <-/>And <-/>the tummy 
<$?> <#/>He's just become fatter than 
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>See I guess yeah uh 'cause <O/> 
<$?> <#/>Anyway <O/>
<$C> <#/>But he's one of the <O/> guys yeah 
<$?> <#/>Oh really 
<$C> <#/>Uh there is this guy <O/>
<$?> <#/>Victor <name/>
<$?> <#/>Victor <name/>
<$?> <#/>Victor is big 
<$?> <#/>By the way and have you ever seen <./>Vic Victor's babes <#/>Small chicks small <#/>Some of them are even smaller than me 
<$?> <#/>Victor is uh <ea/>bwana <O/>
<$?> <#/>That guy is big 
<$?> <#/>That guy used to be on campus here  
<$?> <#/>Yeah he is doing computer science 
<$?> <#/> first <-/>first year we were together 
<$?> <#/>He quit 
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/><O/> He defected in a hurry
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Home science and guitar don't <ea/>ingra <ea/>yani
<$?> <#/>You know he used to go <#/>He plays piano in the <O/>
<$?> <#/>Safari Park 
<$?> <#/>Safari Park 
<$?> <#/>He used to earn a lot of money <#/>He decided to venture into music after all 
<$?> <#/>In fact they are the ones who <O/>
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>And you know that guy used to sing but singing was in him even when he was in Kabarak <#/>He used to compose for them songs <#/>They <O/> and they win 
<$C> <#/><O/> some talent 
<$?> <#/>It’s in him <#/>It’s not forced 
<$C> <#/>There’s a guy <#/>There's a guy <O/> for him <ea/>nini who was telling me this <O/>
<$?> <#/>And you know <#/>Do you know it's Nani's old man who've who sponsored Five Alive the first time to go abroad
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/><name/>
<$?> <#/>Major <name/>
<$?> <#/>Major <name/> the uh <-/>the big guy uh
<$?> <#/>Major
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Retired
<$?> <#/>Retired 
<$?> <#/>He works with <O/>
<$C> <#/>Security officer you know <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> big guy
<$?> <#/>And the <-/>the wife is this controversial <name/>
<$?> <#/>Oh That's the mother 
<$?> <#/><O/> the one who is always fighting <O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh She’s always fighting <O/>
<$?> <#/>She has guts as in she was contesting against him <#/>Yes Tena on BP
<$?> <#/><O/> nowadays He's gone undercover 
<$?> <#/><ea/>Si <ea/>nani <ea/>is <O/> who has uh overtaken him Kanes 
<$?> <#/>Ah 
<$?> <#/>There was another <#/>There was another <O/> outside State House  <#/>That guy is becoming powerful <-/>eh 
<$C> <#/>Which guy
<$?> <#/>Kanes 
<$?> <#/>But you know what happen I mean 
<$C> <#/>He He’s a minister for what 
<$?> <#/>State House 
<$?> <#/>I remember Kanes <#/>Do you remember that time <O/> initiated that uh was it uh talks of ethnic or something <ea/>si they crossed with Kanes there <#/>Uh <O/> who abandoned that thing
<$?> <#/>Oh that thing of 
<$?> <#/>uh the talks  that guy is a wild guy <#/>He's <O/> <ea/>Kipsigis 
<$?> <#/>All <ea/>Kipsigis are wild yeah 
<$?> <#/><name/> was telling us the way he enters State House I mean parliament <-/>mhm <#/>That guy enters <ea/>yaani in style <O/> he waits for people <#/><O/> entered  See now he <#/>You should see him strolling in Upper Hill in the evening
<$?> <#/>He <-_stroll><+_strolls>
<$?> <#/>Uh
<$?> <#/>Solo
<$?> <#/>Solo
<$?> <#/>No guard 
<$?> <#/>They follow him from far just behind far <O/> strolling
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>He feels good uh <O/>
<$?> <#/><ea/>Kwani <ea/>Kwani stays in Upper Hill okay 
</I>
S1A012K
<I> <$?> <#/>No kids no what
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>Just stroll alone with his mobile 
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>I just saw him that day and then he was doing like this <O/>
<$?> <#/>He’s a proud guy  <#/>He’s a real <ea/>Kipsigis
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$?> <#/>You know <ea/>Kipsigis men are very proud <#/><#/>He is a <ea/>Kipsigis
<$?> <#/><O/> he laughs then he does like this  
<$?> <#/><O/> like that
<$C> <#/><O/> He He’s got this uh innocent look on him <#/>He looks so young you know and then he is a foreign affairs <O/>  <#/>He thinks he's just the ambassador himself 
<$?> <#/>The ambassador himself
<$?> <#/>The<-/> The smartest
<$?> <#/><O/> just smiling twenty-four hours
<$C> <#/><ea/>Ntimama
<$?> <#/><ea/>Ntimama
<$?> <#/>With his gap
<$?> <#/>With his gap yeah 
<$C> <#/>You know <O/> that guy was at Thika
<$?> <#/>What was it 
<$?> <#/>You were not there when he was chucking guys stopping guys from greeting him
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/><ea/>Ntimama
<$?> <#/>What was he driving
<$C> <#/>A Toyota <O/> funny Toyota <ea/>bwana
<$D> <#/><O/> 
<$C> <#/><O/> A vibrant guy <#/>And where did Kanes come from <#/>Kones was in parliament <ea/>si this is his first parliament
<$?> <#/>I think so <#/>I don’t even know <O/>
<$?> <#/>So did you know he is grounded
<$?> <#/>Yeah okay <#/>He’s not as powerful as he used to be 
<$C> <#/>Who
<$?> <#/>Total man
<$?> <#/>Yeah
<$D> <#/>It’s called politics 
<$?> <#/>Politics
<$C> <#/>It's power changes hands 
<$?> <#/>Yeah imagine you rise and you fall
<$C> <#/>Yeah I was being told now yeah <#/>You know how we hear <ea/>ati let's say in the <-_>in the<-/> news bulletin so and so has been elected uh has been appointed uh minister for what you know <#/>I mean you could just <O/> <#/>Let's say I'm the minister for education uh 
<$?> <#/><O/> decided can I go back to my ranch 
<$C> <#/><O/> were here in the morning uh <ea/>kawaa <ea/>tu <O/>
<$?> <#/>That guy is proud uh <#/>Imagine <#/>Uh The way he refused that appointment and decided to go back to the roots to his farm <#/>And in fact he was the one who was on top of the tractor ploughing <O/> he was even ploughing for his neighbours after he finishes <O/>
<$?> <#/> Ambush
<$?> <#/>He decided I have better become a farmer than to become <ea/>sijui the under-secretary of <O/> 
<$?> <#/>Yeah <O/> the guy who was his 
<$?> <#/>Oh I see <#/>I see the logic <#/>Because the chief secretary is ahead of all permanent secretaries is on the top of all ambassadors
<$C> <#/>Okay
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$C> <#/>This guy is just picking up a <ea/>nini East African Community <O/>
<$?> <#/>He was still going to be under the chief secretary <#/>And while <O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh 
<$?> <#/>The Chief Secretary is responsible for all civil servants all of them under him all irrespective of where you are <#/>All of them are under his <./>dir ultimate <#/>So shortly he will be made an ambassador from a chief secretary <O/> 
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>He will <#/>He’ll <-/>He’ll sign your transfer 
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>Okay 
<$?> <#/>No he was a permanent secretary <O/> director of Public Service Commission 
<$?> <#/>There was this <-_>There was this<-/> time on the newspapers there was these guys when FORD-Kenya were really fighting those days when they were really fighting during the elections and all <#/>And there was this time Railla was <#/>I don't know what was cutting between <O/> <#/>Railla went to see him off in the airport you know <#/>So people are really wondering all these guys you know it's so funny yeah <#/>Actually all of a sudden Railla and <name/>
<$?> <#/>Yeah at times them those two people <#/>I don't know how it is at times they really <O/>
<$?> <#/>There is something about them <#/>So now <#/>There was this other guy who was fighting against <O/> Railla <#/>No okay not fighting against Railla <#/>There was something <#/>There was something to do with some court case that had some petition that had been taken to court  <#/>Was it a Thika thing <#/>And then there was someone called Sango <ea/>sijui who was or is it Mango
<$?> <#/>Justice Sango
<$?> <#/><-/>mhm who was <./>pr who was uh like heading the whatever the petition and all
<$?> <#/><-/>aha <#/>It was Sango 
<$?> <#/>So now these guys are demonstrating on the streets the FORD-Kenya guys against this Sango guy yeah <ea/>ati <ea/>sijui <#/>I don’t know what <#/>I think his <-/>his verdict was not what they wanted was against Railla and these guys were not seeing the logic <ea/>ati why should this guy be against Railla while <name/> himself is for Railla <#/>I’m telling you those guys were demonstrating <O/> <ea/>mpaka some of them were stripping <O/> <#/>It was like a real theatre on the <#/>I even had that newspaper <#/>I kept it <#/>I wanted to show you Pheres Kidwa they were demonstrating somewhere outside near Harambee House so Pheres Kidwa went to like see what was happening because everything came to a standstill around that place <#/>So <ea/>ati he trying to talk to these guys to cool them down <#/>So there is this Jango who comes with his ego uh <#/>So he's <-/>he's trying to argue out <#/>Okay Pheres Kidwa is trying to argue out to these guys <#/>So he tells this guy Uh <#/>And you <-/>you look familiar <#/>So this guy goes like <ea/> ati Don’t worry I’m just a <#/>Just call me a civilised Kenyan <#/>You can imagine you know a very egoistic guy
<$?> <#/>The Jango is the one who telling him
<$?> <#/>Yeah <#/>Just call me a very civilised Kenyan he told him <#/>And you look familiar <#/>Have we met somewhere else <#/>That was Pheres Kidwa now <#/>This guy was like Just leave me alone Just call me a civilised Kenyan <#/>You know what Pheres Kidwa told him <#/>Oh <O/> sometimes you are civilised  <#/>By the way it was <O/> <ea/>yaani that thing was a drama <#/>There were people were stripping and then some of them are lying down some are screaming <O/> and then now that conversation with Kidwa <ea/>yaani <#/>The whole thing was a big joke <#/>uh it was a crazy thing on the newspaper 
<$?> <#/>Hi Yvonne <#/>May I see you for a second
<$?> <#/>Fine 
<$C> <#/>Hi Veronica <#/>How are you doing 
<$?> <#/>It is something <#/>It's our assignment
<$?> <#/><O/> so much <O/> 
<$?> <#/>You know sometimes <./>Ge Get me 
<$?> <#/>She’s changed her view <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> to intermingle
<$?> <#/>And willing to intermingle <O/> <#/>What do you want 
<$C> <#/>You guys you <-/>you <-/>you have a hard yeah 
<$?> <#/>Why 
<$C> <#/>Like <-/>Like me in my room there are about three shirts four five shirts trousers and basically that it  <#/>You look at this room <ea/>yaani <O/> I feel ashamed 
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$C> <#/>You Now me I came to visit you today and <O/>
<$?> <#/>And what happened
<$C> <#/><O/> You were not in 
<$D> <#/>freedom from hunger walk <O/>
<$C> <#/>But I didn't find you 
<$?> <#/>That’s quite versatile eh
<$?> <#/>Whatever versatile means 
<$D> <#/>That’s like you know there is another man from Nyeri you give him fish he will never eat uh <#/>You know that <#/>Like <O/>
<$?> <#/><ea/>Kwani even that fish is a snake
<$C> <#/><ea/>Kwani them they never used to have fish in those uh rivers and lakes of theirs 
<$?> <#/>Where in central I only heard of Embus eating fish
<$C> <#/>Hey by the way <ea/>Kyukes eat <-/>eat those things <-/>eh <#/>I think it's the most widely-sold thing in the cafeteria <O/>
<$?> <#/>How much do they sell it
<$C> <#/>I think some sixty-something
<$?> <#/><O/> fits with everything else <O/> rice <ea/>ugali
<$C> <#/>Me I said one day I will go a buffet <ea/>yaani <#/>I will be told Uh you now go out  <O/>
<$?> <#/>Are you sure <#/>You are lying 
<$?> <#/><O/> what's whatever your problem is 
<$C> <#/>Uh You <#/>What's your problem
<$?> <#/>Me I'm always <O/> 
<$?> <#/>What <O/>
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>That’s <-/>That’s Nani's boyfriend Judy’s roommate’s boyfriend 
<$?> <#/> <O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh He's from <slang/>Eld
<$?> <#/><slang/>Eld <#/>And I have never seen that guy <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/>
<$?> <#/>Uh You know me I apply <O/> Africa's socialism at heart <#/>Am not like Vero when she see me she <O/> me <#/>Only she only talks to me when it's convenient   
<$C> <#/>Who was this <O/> 
<$C> <#/>Judas <O/> <#/>This guy I’m not arresting 
<$?> <#/><O/> He’s even good to me when I'm arrested
<$C> <#/>Now you’ve peeled the whole banana <#/>You've left nothing
<$?> <#/>Yeah this was the cartoon on Wednesday
<$C> <#/>It looks like you don’t have that experience
<$?> <#/>Are you sure
<$C> <#/><O/> these Ugandans who are still around here
<$?> <#/>
<$?> <#/>They went I thought
<$C> <#/>There are others who went and the others who are around
<$?> <#/>Okay
<$?> <#/>They are in hall five yeah <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> There was this one who was peeling those bananas <#/>I didn't like it <#/>She was wasting the whole thing 
<$?> <#/>Her 
<$?> <#/>That was a fake Ugandan
<$?> <#/>Of course
<$C> <#/><name/> is a smart guy 
<$D> <#/>A smiling guy 
<$C> <#/><O/> kill me quick
<$C> <#/>I just like I been wonder uh thinking <#/>You know like me I get married to a <ea/>jungu and some things <O/> in my house are just out 
<$?> <#/>like
<$C> <#/>This <ea/>mama <ea/> tumbo stuff <#/>There is another babe uh <#/>She works with Red Cross <#/>Now those guys them they are given uh lunch those sides <O/> <#/>So there is this babe a friend of hers she's a <ea/>jungu <#/>She told her <O/> <#/>And you know that day it was chicken in the office you know as in <ea/>joboo lunch was chicken and you know x y z <O/> onions and then there are some tomatoes and then she made uh sandwiches <#/>She <-/>She worked at them on the table <#/>And she was still waiting for the surprise <ea/>yaani <#/>Come on have a seat <O/> <#/>Give me those you know uh <#/>And that is lunch <ea/>yaani  is the tradition of you know which guys Uh <#/>She was disgusted <O/> <#/>But anyway she has a point you know <O/> any anything specific 
<$?> <#/>Just like <-_>Just like<-/> you have a <O/> and everytime I go to a place it's <O/> let me make lunch today 
<$C> <#/>Have you ever <O/> in one of the <ea/>Harambee uh dining halls 
<$?> <#/>These solid things 
<$C> <#/><O/> seven thirty you know they are standing students are still around uh <#/>They give that emergency order <#/>I I took porridge and something you know <#/>Take porridge you know
<$?> <#/>You know there was one time you know I was <O/> guys who eat <#/>One time I went to visit a friend of mine in New Orleans <#/>He is a mechanic <#/>He's a <ea/>Luhya <O/> <#/>So I went to his place and found him cooking <#/>He brought half a kilo of meat and some <ea/>sukuma <ea/>wiki <O/> <#/>Then he told me <ea/>ati uh <O/> you just checked in at the <-_>at the<-/> right time I was going to cook <O/> <#/>I will cook plus you I told him uh <ea/>hapana <O/> <#/>In fact as I talk I'm <O/> some pieces of <ea/>ugali <O/> <#/>So I told the guy <#/>So when the <ea/>maji boils <O/> one kilo he went and chucked one <O/> <#/>I told you about feeding <#/>I told him yeah I know  <#/><O/> this guy didn't chuck anything <#/>I think his eye knows <#/>He just opened the packet and <O/>
<$?> <#/><O/> 
<$?> <#/>The <ea/>ugali was a kilo in fact more 'cause of the water 
<$?> <#/>The <./>m <-/>The meat was 
<$?> <#/>Half a kilo 
<$?> <#/>plus <ea/>sukumas
<$?> <#/>plus <ea/>sukuma 
<$C> <#/><O/>
<$C> <#/>And finally he buried his uh 
<$?> <#/>We <slang/>'cussed <#/>We <slang/>'cussed <#/>Then at about five 
<$C> <#/>Some tea <O/> 
<$?> <#/><O/> like tea
<$?> <#/>They like tea 
<$?> <#/> <O/> a <-/>a kiosk <-_>a kiosk<-/> that thing <-_>that thing<-/>
<$?> <#/><O/> </I>
S1A013K
<I> <$A> <#/> in the darkness just you and me 
<$B> <#/>Isn't that like the home alone movie and you're scaring me <$A> <#/>pardon
<$B> <#/>Just you and me
<$A> <#/>No <-/>no <-/>no
<$B> <#/>Are you afraid
<$A> <#/>No I'm not
<$B> <#/>uh
<$A> <#/>I'm not
<$B> <#/>just you and me and then I go right after that
<$A> <#/> just you and me 
<$B> <#/>so every time now <-/>now I'm in fear
<$A> <#/>uh you're in fear
<$B> <#/>now I'm in fear not anticipation fear
<$A> <#/>you know I have never in all my life 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha 
<$A> <#/>uh caused any lady to <-/>to be afraid
<$B> <#/>Okay first time
<$A> <#/> perhaps only <-/>only no <-/>no <-/>no <-/>no only afraid that I might disappear <$B> <#/> I think that's called vanity
<$A> <#/>but not no <-/>no not vanity 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha the truth 
<$A> <#/>is it
<$B> <#/>it's the truth 
<$A> <#/>it's the truth is it just a matter of a <-/>a proper and accurate appraisal of oneself
<$B><-/>aha 
<$A> <#/>now if you have 
<$B> <#/> <-/>aha
<$A> <#/>the best thing you should do is just uh but the only thing you should do is simply acknowledge say the facilities <#/>Oh my God
<$B> <#/>That sounds that sounds like 
<$A> <#/>Yeah it was yeah
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>It's along the same line 
<$B> <#/>that was good that really was but you know I still believe that's <O/><$A> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/> all <-/>all parts remain constant but in order to <$A> <#/>No but it's true <#/>I wasn't lying <#/>uh there was a service in progress
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>You know those divine service things
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>a service <-_begin><+-begins> with a hymn scripture reading that kind of stuff
<$B><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>and then somewhere along the line uh the <-/>the pastor they were supposed to preach the sermon 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>Now at the end of the sermon they're supposed to follow <$B> <#/>What is that <#/>No it is kind of light <#/>I can't quite tell <#/>Is that colour right the texture
<$B> <#/>I don't know <#/>I'm not sure why don't you just leave all that those bits that look like that 
<$A> <#/>All that look suspect
<$B> <#/>Yeah at least until the ladies come back 
<$A> <#/>They're many
<$B> <#/>That look like that no the rest doesn't look like that 
<$A> <#/>The rest looks fine enough 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>So now on the platform up by the pulpit there is this guy whose <-/>whose <-/>whose role was to <-/>to call the last song the closing song after the sermon <#/>Now when the preacher stood up to do his thing he preached and preached and 
<$B> <#/> <-/>aha
<$A> <#/>I don't know but he was boring or uh the <-/>the guy who was supposed to call the last was uh was tired
<$B> <#/> tired
<$A> <#/>But uh whatever the case the damn guy slept
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>He dozed he just went totally <#/>Now the preacher preached <-/>preached then somewhere in uh <-/>in the middle of his sermon he <?/>pulled probably for effect 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Now that quiet the sudden quiet must have uh jolted the man awake
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>and so thinking that uh his time had come that was his cue he stood up 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>proceeded to the microphone and said And now brothers and sisters we're going to close with uh hymn number such and such
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>Then he realized wait
<$B> <#/> <./>si silence
<$A> <#/>something isn't right 
<$B> <#/>Was it silence or a collective sigh of relief from the crowd
<$A> <#/>No <-/>no <-/>no <#/>it was silence it was a stunned silence more than anything else <#/>What is he up to <#/>And he was like why isn't that the customary movement 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>shuffling of books then the turning of pages and someone getting to their feet <#/>Then he looked around and to his horror he saw that the pastor 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>was right there 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha at the pulpit
<$A> <#/>no <-/>no <-/>no toward the end you know the front toward one uh <-/>one <-/> <O/> one he was a very able man <#/>He was he would move around with many theatrics 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>And <-/>and he was there just gaping wondering what is going on 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>It was a true thing a true incident 
<$B> <#/>And then you all looked down and as you <O/> and then go back to sit
<$A> <#/>And you know you are Christians so you are like uh 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>you can't laugh at the guy though in other settings you had laughed at the top of your voice
<$B> <#/><$A> <#/>the man was so thoroughly embarrassed 
<$B> <#/>then <-/>then sat down
<$A> <#/>I met someone who spoke to me that you are a rich lady
<$B> <#/>I'm a rich lady
<$A> <#/>yeah and that uh 
<$B> <#/>I have <./>som someone who is <-_>who is<-/> <O/> that's what happens
<$A> <#/>It's all right 
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$A> <#/>Remember in this Nairobi we have to boil water before we drink it so uh that water was not for drinking whatever is in the 
<$B> <#/>Is not 
<$A> <#/>Don't come into contact then <#/>I know you don't like water especially cold water 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>time like this is a cold night
<$B> <#/>uh yes
<$A> <#/>well until I thought consider 
<$B> <#/>yes having a warm shower
<$A> <#/>not a warm shower A hot water bottle although it's very effective
<$B> <#/>Is it
<$A> <#/>Yeah you have never had that 
<$B> <#/>uh no
<$A> <#/>Where have you grown up somewhere in <$B> <#/>the back of the <O/>
<$A> <#/>I'm telling you 
<$B> <#/>Maybe it's not bad
<$A> <#/>I know what has happened you see <#/>I went to <-_>I went to<-/> <-/>I when I went to washing it I used warm to hot water
<$B> <#/>oh
<$A> <#/>so I can imagine that uh the coloration 
<$B> <#/>Is poor and maybe we could ask her what's wrong with it <O/> <#/>What time did your ladies go off
<$A> <#/>I don't know <#/>I just came in a few minutes ago <#/>I had gone to <#/>Wait a minute this can't be right or is it 
<$B> <#/>It could be because 
<$A> <#/>the
<$B> <#/>the little spaces there so the water the hot water got to 
<$A> <#/> actually notice that the <-/>the <-/>the top the outer pot is actually large
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/><O/> so I came from we have a  meeting 
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>in progress
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>so I came from church passed by <#/>I was with my girl
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>so I left her there
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm tell her see you later sweetheart
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>with a kiss and a hug
<$B> <#/>no <#/>No need to get into the 
<$A> <#/>are you feeling are you 
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>feeling jealous
<$B> <#/>no I'm not
<$A> <#/>Well then how is it that some people have 
<$B> <#/>as to have  such as the
<$A> <#/>What have they <-_>what have they<-/> that I have not 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha as
<$A> <#/>but has disqualified me where they succeed 
<$B> <#/>they qualify where they qualify
<$A> <#/>where they qualify 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>don't worry 
<$B> <#/>But my time shall come 
<$A> <#/>now that you scare me
<$B> <#/> <-/>hahaha
<$A> <#/>But find myself on the receiving end as well what is the giving end whatever that means 
<$B> <#/>It means yah
<$A> <#/>yah
<$B> <#/>Because I would have wanted the other elaboration then  <-/>then <-/>then collaboration
<$A> <#/>But <-/>but <-/>but the particulars 
<$B> <#/>yes
<$A> <#/>Well I'm here to <./>colla collabrate with you ain't I 
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>How is your love life
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/>Who is he 
<$B> <#/>Why did you do that funny laugh
<$A> <#/>Pardon
<$B> <#/>Why did you do that laugh  like <onom/>ha
<$A> <#/>I didn't laugh <#/>I didn't laugh
<$B> <#/>like <onom/>ha 
<$A> <#/>I don't know
<$B> <#/>I mean is that the lucky man as in lucky man or <onom/>ha
<$A> <#/><onom/>Ha as in like uh 
<$B> <#/>which one is it
<$A> <#/>I think uh the latter
<$B> <#/>How dare you
<$A> <#/>How dare you 
<$B> <#/>Just off my feet
<$A> <#/>You didn't consult me 
<$B> <#/>Am I supposed to
<$A> <#/>yeah <#/>I mean I have eminent domain over you
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>You should ask for notice <#/>you should ask for short notice
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm saying
<$A> <#/>warning all men
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm
<$A> <#/>that uh he that uh
<$B> <#/>weary
<$A> <#/>shall love life and wish to have <&/>laughing and wish to meet his maker with all his limbs intact
<$B> <#/>had better not
<$A> <#/>had better first of all consult me <-_>consult me<-/> before he makes any <-/>any move in 
<$B> <#/> 
<$A> <#/>I'm a jealous man
<$B> <#/>I'll ask you to come by and see me
<$A> <#/>I'm a jealous man
<$B> <#/>I promise I'll tell him look I forgot to do something at the beginning of this relationship
<$A> <#/>yes
<$B> <#/>there's someone who had <O/>
<$A> <#/>uh but uh it's called a life-time interest that you may 
<$B> <#/> 
<$A> <#/>you may give away every interest that is in yourself but there is <O/> right 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha self-preservation
<$A> <#/>not that <-_>not that<-/> 
<$B> <#/>really 
<$A> <#/>a right that shall always belong to me it's like land <#/>Land belongs ultimately to the government 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>so that uh one dies and uh and uh you have to <-_>you have to<-/> do what and one <-/>one does like <./>who whose whose land is it ultimately
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>you find that government steps in like <-/>like if we all die I have land <#/>I die I have no relative nobody to claim after me 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>the land will have to go back to government <#/>So similarly
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/> I do have <#/>I stand in a similar position 
<$B> <#/>As <-/>as regards me
<$A> <#/>as <-_regard><+_regards> yourself that when all else fails 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>it's something they cannot really give away
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>somebody belongs to me  
<$B> <#/> too much played too much to life
<$A> <#/><-/>Mhm this is just the 
<$B> <#/>but
<$A> <#/>simple way 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>to state uh 
<$B> <#/>you're clean
<$A> <#/>like
<$B> <#/>is it state or stake
<$A> <#/>no <-/>no I'm not staking it 
<$B> <#/>just stating 
<$A> <#/>yes stating it but I'm restating it but I believe we 
<$B> <#/>have a wonderful 
<$A> <#/> before we <-/>we both know uh where we stand
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>so that for the benefit of society altogether who might uh <-/>might not know
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>know the law has a will protecting the innocent partisan
<$B> <#/><-/>aha just beware
<$A> <#/><./>ye yes somebody will be protecting the innocent partisan a party who <O/> for value without notice
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>right so to avoid that without notice but we are giving notice
<$B> <#/>
<$A> <#/>about everything we have to say
<$B> <#/>they are not 
<$A> <#/>they are not 
<$B> <#/>they refused to wake up in the morning for aerobics 
<$A> <#/>does that count
<$B> <#/> Now you ask 
<$A> <#/>I always believed that aerobics are for ladies
<$B> <#/>no it's also for men 
<$A> <#/>the exercises are too they're too what they're too can't get the term they're too late 
<$B> <#/>let's do this 
<$A> <#/>I need something heavy
<$B> <#/>let's do this 
<$A> <#/>after all
<$B> <#/>you're heavy 
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>you're tough you're hard 
<$A> <#/> oh <foreign/>brudica
<$B> <#/>yeah enjoy yourself
<$A> <#/> is a girl
<$B> <#/>to <?/>brudicaring
<$A> <#/>Whatever you want to talk about or uh or <O/> it's always a girl 
<$B> <#/>and who voices all these complaints for the small roles in this country 
<$A> <#/>are they 
<$B> <#/>about girls how come this year they're not <?/>stocky 
<$A> <#/>well they
<$B> <#/>because Beijing is over
<$A> <#/>yeah I think so that's one then 
<$B> <#/>that would be really negative
<$A> <#/>probably the girls have discovered that one men don't exploit women 
<$B> <#/>oh really what do they do 
<$A> <#/>women too 
<$B> <#/>to be exploited 
<$A> <#/>not even be really they choose to be depicted in a particular manner 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>now if they <O/> depiction is to <-/>to weaken the position of the woman 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>she has herself entirely 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>to blame I hadn't sympathized with those who play the dominant position 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>and then when it doesn't turn out too well they start complaining nobody forces those women to stand back there are they forced to 
<$B> <#/>no they're not all but the complaint was not for those who stand back it wasn't for that women in front of a car
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm
<$B> <#/>but they're not complaining for her <#/>They're complaining for that woman who never stood in front of the car but who will later be seen as a possession because of 
<$A> <#/>But what I ask is this why did that woman choose <#/>I mean so who is really to blame the person who called out to stand there or the person who stood there
<$B> <#/>It is uh <-_>it is<-/> both of them society  <-/>society
<$A> <#/>Society between the women folk
<$B> <#/>yes
<$A> <#/>So I've never heard anyone addressing specifically women and saying look women we are willing accomplices <./>ac <-/>accomplices in this uh <-/>this whole process
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>Nobody ever points a finger 
<$B> <#/>They do <#/>They just have attended too many seminars and workshops on that 
<$A> <#/>Well they say that when they just want to I don't know 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>wanting to have what
<$B/$A> <#/>a habit 
<$B> <#/>But I read a funny 
<$A> <#/>The easiest way I might win this battle
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>is simply <O/> that no woman 
<$B> <#/>How 
<$A> <#/>unless you guys clean your house don't talk to us <#/>We have all you 
<$B> <#/>We live in separate houses 
<$A> <#/>We know your duty 
<$B> <#/>You know I love this 
<$A> <#/>Honest you love this <#/>You love  the truth I'm glad
<$B> <#/> go on
<$A> <#/>Did you read uh My Mother Myself 
<$B> <#/>no
<$A> <#/>on Sunday <#/>Sunday Nation 
<$B> <#/>no
<$A> <#/>it's a novel by somebody called My Mother My Self 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>and it's very interesting 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>uh there's where <./>sh the author A lady by the way
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>you know duty just let me know for what <#/>Go on 
<$A> <#/>Yeah we find that you women one thing you complain you say oh we are being uh discriminated we want to be equal <#/>Yeah we seek equality everywhere then
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>is it equal by means really <#/>I don't get the point <#/>We are equal we are <O/> <#/>Let me give you an example
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>What happened we were that's now when we went back to participate in an attempt at uh
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>Do you know there are these women 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>fellow soldiers if you wish </I>
S1A014K
<I> <$A> <#/>it's love founded in struggle that whereby he's writing the poem is I <-/>I wanted to is somebody who is far away further removed from whereby he's addressing and uh as we're talking about what it have it has happened take the people in Africa during <-/>during the age of uh and struggle against uh colonialism most people who are <O/> uh their families their relationships in the camp of <O/> <#/>So these days writing from a faraway place <-_>faraway place<-/> we can't tell a place where but there is any location to show that uh he is further removed from where his addressee and that wherever his addressee will be <./>ha they will be have a special relationship holding together
<$B> <#/>there is also an auditory to ask question about you know his idea to be a contract worker <O/> get me know for instance that uh the <-/>the contract workers who are really <-_>who are really<-/> workers who are in they <-/>they <-/>they were all they were not uh <-_>they were not<-/> educated and these people were supposed to <-/>to work really <#/>Their labour was contracted you know by the South African government so is like uh <O/> of it all during that period and through that period and at least they were working <#/>They were supposed you know they were supposed to work very hard and apart from that you know they were supposed to <#/>The money was taken away by the South African government and the South African government in turn will suppose were supposed pay now pay the Portuguese government and the Portuguese government again in turn you know contract uh deduct whatever it considered as tax <O/> <-/>mhm yeah <O/> drawing from the pay yeah from the pay of this
<$A> <#/>I tell what it means they give the family to the <O/>
<$B> <#/>yeah
<$A> <#/>this was a regular manner
<$B> <#/>okay so is like uh this contract worker was <-/>was isolated as he put it but we know really that uh the contract workers were really working in South Africa so is like this <-/>this is a letter now I think as you rightly put it addressing to <-/>to one of his lovers
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm <slang/>'coz I'm imagining <-_>I'm imagining<-/> somebody's old factory they had to go home if at all they go home and he's addressing somebody who he's really loving one he loves but he's away from her
<$B> <#/>yeah so <-/>so how can we identify the okay the <-/>the generally the pain of this particular point <#/>I wanted you I wanted to address you to <-/>to this particular line on the a nameless pain which pursues me a nameless pain which <-/>which is this pain he is talking about
<$A> <#/>of this pain which the <O/> want <#/>I feel a nameless pain which pursues me <#/>is it the pain of separation
<$B> <#/>yeah now that we have identified from what that what we have said we have already identified that uh that is isolation it is lack of education and the basic emotion here is love is it <#/>So perhaps we can say that uh that reference to a nameless pain has to do with uh that aloneness that this gentleman must be feeling wherever he is
<$A> <#/>due to their separation
<$B> <#/>I don't know that is maybe but you can make additions
<$A> <#/>I guess the pain he <-_feel><+_feels> hurt there is this person he loves very much but apparently is far for him and the <-/>the <-/>the use of the word pain it is not something that maybe he caused to happen <#/>It's not his fault that they are separated <#/>Could be it is the system that was <?/>wanted to <-_separation><+_separate> them that have to force people to get out of their homes go and work for long days or months without having to see their families so that pain of separation from especially somebody who loves
<$B> <#/>yeah <#/>let me just to make uh an addition <#/>It could also refer to the anguish that he feels within himself the anguish of uh what <-_have><+_has> happened the dream of life of him and his likes <#/>It becomes a constant stigma in terms that to feel that you just must be a contract worker that <-/>that is your destiny and that kind of feeling
<$A> <#/>and also that it has to relegating to that kind of life you know where how you <O/> that together you have to communicate this way you can never stay together anymore
<$B> <#/>and also this it is this destiny to hiding the nature of this contract not aiming at his memories not perhaps to something that is a bit <-_>a bit<-/> as he put it is a it is <-_>it is<-/> some anguish which is in the heart but apart from this that I think it is also something which is again uh so immense it is not just one there is other pains
<$C> <#/>yes <#/>I don't know
<$B> <#/>it it's a pain not as we know it in the ordinary sense this is a pain that is unique
<$A> <#/>is it why it is taken it is nameless this term nameless <#/>Why has it been
<$B> <#/>yeah or <O/> express
<$C> <#/>there is something which I really <#/><O/> if he says it pursues me which means it is constant in his life it is something that follows him night and day it is something that is in him will come really <O/> so it is uh I would say it is like uh a stigma and then again this is your point as you say you know he can't write and really the idea of this poem is that this guy wants to write a letter to whoever he loves but he can't write so what <-/>what is your modification as in the context of this point <#/>Does he complain that he doesn't have education as a tool to help him communicate his emotions his feelings to the other person or does he look at it with uh <-/>with uh in a satirical manner as to say just that uh maybe perhaps he doesn't need it at all <#/>What is your view what is education is a very central issue during that particular time like in the camp of <O/>
<$B> <#/>you're really
<$C> <#/>there weren't some really complaints that he can't write and really wants to write <#/>Is it a complaint that he's putting across or is it just at it in a satirical manner <#/>Does it uh does he just want to bring up a humour <#/>Okay as in the <-/>the last few stanzas you have to agree on a very critical issue here when not is this a uh the best agents of <-/>of you know conveying this particular love as the major role you know the major role <-_>the major role<-/> things in life like uh
<$B> <#/>the wind
<$C> <#/>the winds you know the cashew and the coffee trees even he talks about the <-_animal><+_animals> the hyenas and the buffalo so is like uh is like he's <-/>he's making uh some point about education here uh <#/>I wouldn't <-_>I wouldn't<-/> really say that uh uh he does not really need this education
<$B> <#/>okay
<$C> <#/>I think he's part of this pain he's talking about is uh <-/>is as a result of you know lack of his education that perhaps now that he has <-_>he has<-/> <-_>he has<-/> been uh rejected now that he has not he has been denied this particular education he is not too happy very much happy about it and perhaps is now resorting to another means you know of conveying the same message perhaps even winds will do it better than you know the <-/>the <-/>the written message
<$B> <#/>uh the nature of the finals of the final line I think it's very emphatic but I can't write to see that oh my hopelessness <#/>I can't write it <#/>I think it's very emphatic <-/>emphatic as to suggest that uh but the way for this guy there is not to have education he feels some form of adoration from <-/>from what perhaps he would like to be or something like that
<$C> <#/>now I also want to know really I wanted to bring attention to this particular line about the <-/>the addressee in this line the addressee also can't read the addressee can't read <#/>I know we know that the addressee is right <-/>right back in the home country that is in uh <-/>in <-/>in Angola okay <#/>So what <-/>what is your <-/>your view about you know the situation of <-/>of the colonised
<$B> <#/>no now it <-/>it <-/>it they still would say that
<$C> <#/>I would say that uh in this a letter to from a contract worker so I think the trend was that uh these people were not supposed to get education because they were supposed to be contract workers <#/>If <-/>if <-/>if perhaps they got education they'll become more critical <#/>They will question the kind of thing within their <-/>their lives <#/>They want to perhaps to have <./>some uh something better than just being mere contract workers <#/>The so in turn you were missing that comes from this pains that uh the <-/>the destiny for <-/>for the uneducated in the context of Portuguese uh colonies was uh to become a contract worker <#/>You didn't have to bring anything else what else and this man looks at that kind of thing that kind of <-/>of stereotyping and is what fills him the lot of anguish above on just the fact that he cannot communicate his message of love to <-/>to his lover in a letter <#/>It's also that kind of he feels that uh uh this lack of education <O/> him lot and his like I mean the people the other contract workers of the other countries around him
<$B> <#/>and I wanted also to bring your attention to this <#/>Okay to me it appears as if it is some paradox of some kind who is talking to the person in this case is lamenting that he cannot write yet at the end of the day he's written a poem <#/>What does it mean 
<$A> <#/>all he's saying really is his intention
<$C> <#/>well you see this is a reflection <-_>is a<-/> reflection of society this poem that is a reflection of society you know you cannot you can't just write what you are not but what you can observe isn't it 
<$B> <#/>yeah so he's whoever wrote this poem the <O/> was just uh a reflection on his society was this reflecting on that strains being in society the emotions that go through the minds of people how they feel about the systems
<$C> <#/>so <-/>so in <-/>in other words you are saying that uh the <-/>the person in this case is quite <-_>is quite<-/> distanced from the <-/>the poet
<$B> <#/>yeah I would say because we know <-_>we know<-/> <-_>we know<-/> the poet <-_>the poet<-/> is Antonio Jacinto
<$C> <#/>yeah
<$B> <#/>but now he's created he has created a person ..
<$A> <#/>yeah this person 
<$C> <#/>yeah I
<$B> <#/>so it is this I now who is not able to who is not able to write
<$A> <#/>yeah <-/>yeah <-/>yeah
<$B> <#/>he's just
<$C> <#/>so it is now recollecting on <-/>on <-/>on experiences in <-/>in the society
<$B> <#/>yeah
<$C> <#/>it's just like uh <-/>like you would for example you look around and you see things happen in daily <-_surrounding><+_surroundings> <#/>Some you really feel for them you feel is there something to suffering and you feel for him but at one time or another you identify his particular problem in the <-_>in the<-/> particular case you can't write a poem you're even just do it yourself you are sure one person would say <onom/>aye because you also feel that's <-/>that's the emotion that caused to <O/> that particular person
<$B> <#/>and it's also this other issue <#/>I wanted to bring your attention to okay especially the <-/>the second the last the second last stanza uh the sorrowful words of the letter <O/> you <-/>you <-/>you know that uh the words of this poem change from sorrowful
<$C> <#/>they really look sorrowful in the <-_>in the<-/> strictest sense of <-/>of the word what <-/>what 
<$A> <#/>let's <-/>let's metell you just there is a point here the <O/> pitying <?/>or sharp soul from song to song lament to lament would lead to pure and hot the <?/>ban <#/>the sorrowful words are very talented to read to me <#/>I don't know what is the person of the
<$B> <#/>okay as have you supported the <-/>the person is that acquaints some <-/>some anguish but then he wants to write a <-/>a love poem uh a <-/>a love letter to <-/>to <-/>to the addressee who is way back who is now very far back home uh and now he <-/>he in the first stanza he's talks about this nameless pain and <-/>and now he is talking about you know the <-/>the intimate secrects and in a letter of memories of you <#/>Okay then he goes on to <-/>to discuss the <-/>the nature <-_>the nature<-/> of this particular of the <-_>of the<-/> addressee her lips you know the hair the eyes you know the breast all this thing that caresses <#/>Yet I was really wondering towards the end he is talking about the sorrowful words of the letter and you know that these words is he the <-/>the poet is writing or the person is writing are not even sorrowful <</I>
S1A015K
<I> <$A> <#/>It is okay
<$B> <#/>Yeah is okay
<$A> <#/>Which topic is that
<$B> <#/>Twenty-first academics <#/>You know all these things will just come as you talk
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>Uh not all 
<$A> <#/>I think uh let's start with the philosophy of religion and especially uh this part whereby uh we are tracing the origin of religion 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>in the society
<$B>Uh 
<$A> <#/>Have you attended any class in the uh
<$B> <#/>Yeah <#/>I have been at least I have been attending
<$A> <#/>But I think your classes have been colliding with uh the philosophy classes
<$B> <#/>Yeah and you know the uh philosophy lecturers don't want to co-operate <#/>Like you know the timetables changed while they are in need those were put for the private but you know is like they are not wishing anybody to do the private
<$A> <#/>Yeah most of them sure <#/>They want to see what they will get before the end of the week 
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>And also do they clash with your <O/> your external courses also
<$B> <#/>No at least now because
<$A> <#/>You do external courses
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>In town
<$B> <#/>Yeah in town
<$A> <#/>Which courses are they
<$B> <#/><O/>
<$A> <#/><O/>
<$B> <#/>for they shall grow in <-/>in fact they just
<$A> <#/>Which section now are you in so far
<$B> <#/>Three
<$A> <#/>Section three <./>hey you must be fast <#/>After that uh you go to which stage
<$B> <#/>Four now section four <#/>Okay each part has two sections like part one has section one and section two part two section three and section four part three section four <#/>I mean section five and section six <#/>So each part has two sections <#/>Now I am in the third section 
<$A> <#/>Section three
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>You are through with section one and section two
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>You are now in section three
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>So you at least qualified to be uh an accountant or something
<$B> <#/>Yeah 
<$B> <#/>as an account assistant not an accountant <#/>An accountant is a bigger man
<$A> <#/>okay
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>A chief accountant
<$B> <#/>Ah that one you must have finished section six
<$A> <#/>And that one I think is tough 
<$C> <#/>And where do this really applied PNC NCNC scheme
<$B> <#/>Okay SPNP
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>It used to be there a long time ago but it has uh replaced by KATC you know 
<$C> <#/>uh 
<$B> <#/>Kenyan Accountants and Technicians
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>certificate
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/><-/>Ooh
<$C> <#/>So which is the highest level which is uh or it can even be done up to a degree level
<$B> <#/>No <#/>what I am told you is that after you finish section six you can qualify for masters
<$C> <#/>For masters after finishing section six  
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>This means this section six is equivalent  to a degree a Bachelors degree
<$B> <#/>Yes
<$A> <#/>a Bachelors degree
<$B> <#/>It is equivalent to a Bachelors degree
<$A> <#/>And so for somebody to obtain that one has to be very tough
<$B> <#/>Uh I don't think these things are because if you compare it with what we are doing here 
<$A> <#/>They are better off
<$B> <#/>Not better off <#/>They are easy
<$A> <#/>They are easy
<$C> <#/><-/>Mhm
<$B> <#/>Because you know there you are taught you know compare being in a college and being in a university <#/>You know in a university you must read for yourself <#/>The lecturer is just advises you on how to work
<$A> <#/><O/> reading and researching 
<$B> <#/>Yeah 
<$A> <#/>He will only give you twenty per cent of what you require
<$B> <#/>Yeah that means you have to research you know you go to the library but there
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>they really make sure that 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>they teach you
<$A> <#/>In fact uh you have to get a lot of grasping
<$B> <#/>And you know all these colleges are competing among themselves

<$A> <#/>unlike the university you know in a university you are not competing with any other university why because they are autonomous
<$B> <#/>But you know all these colleges they are competing among themselves so that 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>so that the best colleges
<$A> <#/>for quality
<$B> <#/>can attract so many students
<$A> <#/>They gear towards quality
<$B> <#/>Yeah they want to
<$A> <#/>They just want to produce uh quantity 
<$C> <#/>And maybe to attract more students
<$B> <#/>Yeah because they are 
<$C> <#/>commercial colleges
<$B> <#/>They are commercial colleges 
<$A> <#/>Which one are you in Which college
<$B> <#/>
<$B> <#/>Yeah but is not very expensive especially
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>for even students you know people <O/> fear more when they hear school that is expensive but I don't think is expensive
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>because like in the evening class you pay like four thousand eight hundred for the whole semester
<$A> <#/>of three months
<$B> <#/>four months
<$A> <#/>four months
<$B> <#/>because two months' accommodation is left for 
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$B> <#/> you know there are times when you are course intensity <#/>That is what they call property development exercise
<$A> <#/>So boy you mean you stay around <O/>
<$B> <#/>Yeah I stay around 
<$A> <#/>Your parent is here
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>So you mean that you are through with our academic programme in the university here and you still have a place to stay
<$B> <#/>Uh I just stick around
<$A> <#/>Uh  You see such course will be hard for us because some of us have to live uh we just go to the city
<$B> <#/>But these colleges must be wherever you are.
<$A> <#/>But you see now we come from rural area some of us <#/>So you can't just find these colleges there and 
<$B> <#/>Check okay
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>I would have <-_>I would have<-/> registered for it because instead of picking economics 
<$B> <#/>Oh you are doing economics
<$A> <#/>No I'm no longer doing it <#/>I am doing political science and philosophy
<$B> <#/>But at times you are doing economics 
<$A> <#/>Can't you remember <#/>You have forgotten
<$B> <#/>No I used to think you're the one I use to meet in philosophy <#/>Although you are very familiar <-/>ba 
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>So as I was saying I like university where you have to read on your own <#/>In such colleges they must make you pass <O/> who if they were to know where the exam will come from they will just teach you on how to pass it
<$A> <#/><-/>mhm
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>because they are just competing among themselves
<$C> <#/>This exam is set by the uh I mean is a national exam 
<$C> <#/>I think is a national exam
<$B> <#/>No is a national exam
<$A> <#/>Some thing then all the students must register for this course
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>Okay so is something recognised
<$B> <#/>is recognised
<$C> <#/>It is very much recognised <#/>In fact they have specific dates for this exam 
<$A> <#/>So now boy can you comment on this issue how religion came into the society 
<$C> <#/>Okay I have not attended much of the classes but yeah give your general view about it your layman's understanding of it 
<$C> <#/>How religion came
<$A> <#/>Yeah you explain what Ottelo was trying to <-/>to ask  <#/>What is your conceptualisation of religion in the society <#/>Trace <-/>trace its origins <#/>How do you come that man need to come down and think about maybe having something <-/>something supreme or something of that thing
<$C> <#/>Uh I think this religion must have come in when man discovered he had <-_>he had<-/> problems
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>and it was difficult to solve
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>You know first of all you have problem
<$A> <#/><-/>aha 
<$C> <#/>And you don't know how to solve it <#/>Okay like from my own experience I only think of God when I have problem
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$B> <#/>It is good to be honest 
<$A> <#/>It is good to be honest
<$C> <#/>Yeah at times like I don't know there is a time I had a very pressing problem
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>And this time I promised God God if you assist me to solve this problem I will be saved 
<$A> <#/>Are you saved now
<$C> <#/>I am not 
<$A> <#/>So your problem was solved
<$C> <#/>The problem was solved
<$A> <#/>So you cheated God now
<$C> <#/>Yeah Yeah <#/>I cheated God 
<$B> <#/>If there is God
<$C> <#/>Yeah if there is God 
<$A> <#/>Of course God is there
<$C> <#/>Then I lied to him
<$A> <#/>That is the thing at least we commonly know that God is there we can't uh <-_>we can't<-/> achieve that 
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>We know God exists <#/>How would you react to
<$C> <#/>The fact that we can't prove that God exists means he is not there
<$A> <#/>So we <-/>we try to prove and we can't uh <-_>we can't<-/> even convince this means <-_>this means<-/> is like we can't also if we don't have the material <-_>the material<-/> the linguistic material to explain or to express God's existence that means that God is not there <#/>God is still there <#/>I still believe that
<$B> <#/>You believe or you can prove
<$A> <#/>We can't prove because you see God is 
<$B> <#/>That kind of thing <#/>Believing I mean we need to believe you can't <-_>you can't<-/> 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So that you can understand 
<$B> <#/>Have you borrowed it from <name/> 
<$A> <#/>I can't borrow it from <name/> but I read some of his works
<$B> <#/>Some time ago
<$A> <#/>Uh so but now boy I have still one question
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>Now that you told me that when you have problems
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>you tend to maybe remember God or such things are your problems really getting solved now as a result of you taking them before God or how does the solution of the problems come about
<$C> <#/>I think most of the problems have been solved 
<$A> <#/>By the power of God or by what power
<$C> <#/>All circumstances that came uh 
<$B> <#/>Yeah you <-/>you know all circumstance can come in but you tend to think that
<$C> <#/>Uh What happen there is another day in fact I don't know what really happen because you have you just see a coincidence and you <-/>you really don't know how it worked out <#/>Like assuming you are here
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>two minutes ago
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>then something tells you just walk from here go and stand there 
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Then no sooner have you walked away from there than say a bomb erupts from here 
<$A> <#/>uh
<$C> <#/>Now how <-/>how will you <-_>how will you<-/> explain that <#/>You know at least you 'll tend to think the power of God is working <#/>God is really with me
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>At least is God who told me to move away from here
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>because he knew something was going to happen
<$A> <#/>Okay now let me ask you some question there
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>So you want to tell me that those who have been perishing as a result of the explosion of this bomb
<$C> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>are not with God since you claimed you are with God and God has guided you to move from that point of disaster to a safer point so you want to tell me that those who perish there are not with God
<$C> <#/>And this is where I find religion to be uh
<$A> <#/>absurd
<$C> <#/>absurd and maybe to claim that it is God that guided you 
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>also to be absurd
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>because for one thing
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>God being the creator of all humankind
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>why should he decide to <-/>to take away boy from a particular place where a bomb is <-/>is 
<$C> <#/>almost exploding 
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>and leave the others to be <-_>to be<-/> knocked down by the bomb and perish uh
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>This is the question I have been asking all these people who <-_>all these people who<-/> claim that they are <-_saviour><+_saved> <#/>and they come to <-/>to trying to <-/>to save me also or help me get saved <#/>I still don't understand <#/>Like there is a case <#/>Okay a certain relative of mine who died in a very <-_>a very<-/> <-_>a very<-/> 
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>what can I say <#/>I mean he suffered so much 
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>before finally getting finally dying
<$A> <#/>Okay there was much <-/>much
<$C> <#/>Yeah much pain <#/>Now I am asking if at all God knew that this man
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>is finally going to die because at least we are all aware that God knows what is going to happen to someone and everybody if anything
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Just like they say
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Now even if we all know it
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Now how comes he can let one to suffer so much
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>before finally taking away his life <#/>Why can't he just take away his life early enough so that he does not suffer and maybe some kind of  you see <#/>These are some of the problems that religion cannot answer
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>when we start questioning we ask more questions than they can answer <#/>So  is part of the problem  anyway is part of the problem
<$A> <#/>How do you constitution of it boy the whole idea 
<$C> <#/> Beautiful there is a claim that God has a plan for everybody
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>Like you know like there are at times Christians could come to me and how we need to get saved
<$A> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>So I use to ask them why is it that God is so I don't know which word to use <O/> he makes some people suffer while others enjoy
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Yeah <#/>God is so discriminating
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and they used to tell me that God has a plan for everybody 
<$A> <#/>He is a jealous god 
</I>
S1A016K
<I> <$C> <#/>It appeared surprisingly the charge was reduced it from murder to manslaughter 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and then I don't know he's now only convicted for a few <-_month><+_months>
<$D> <#/>Which one is better <#/>Manslaughter is better I think
<$C> <#/>I think now he was convicted for around a year <#/>I'm not sure and you know 
<$C> <#/>He has already stayed in the prison for some time <O/> he was appealed for 
<$C> <#/>Yeah so you know the magistrate the judge was convinced that since he has already stayed in prison for some time
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and he has now been convicted for a year
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>he should be released because at least he has already finished a year
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So the girl was released 
<$A> <#/>He was acquitted
<$C> <#/>Yeah the girl self and you know what she gives them problems she gives them testimonies because she still gives them problems now
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>She just can't decide to get saved 
<$C> <#/><O/> a white man who is a missionary in my place
<$A> <#/>Uh Would you allow me to release a <O/> from my own <#/>I will be coming just immediately.
<$C> <#/>Yeah so I was talking about this missionary in my place that he was telling me that he comes from Canada <#/>I just want to visit him in his place but he lives in Nairobi
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>so he told me <-_>he told me<-/> that you see in Canada people don't care about going to the church
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>because people they have basically everything for human existence that they need like a car almost everybody is having a car 
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>and there is just no much problems 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and some people will find no reason of going to church <&/>prep 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So I told him so <O/> people are materialistic in your place
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>He said Yeah kind of kind of people are materialistic but you see
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Yeah somebody can have that concept of God and you can know that God is there
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>but to bother to go to church or why go to church there is no need
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/><O/> unless
<$B> <#/>There are no problems
<$C> <#/>Yeah unless one is in full service that is the time he is going to take himself now to the church for
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>such purposes 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So I was trying to compare it with Africa <#/>So he said now in our case if you come to Africa so how do you find here
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So he declined to comment
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>Sometimes I don't  know due to personal reasons or what he declined to comment the
<$B> <#/>He is a foreigner isn't it 
<$C> <#/>Yeah he is a foreigner
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>But he was very good <#/>He was very social
<$B> <#/>It could be <-_>it could be<-/> he was declining because he does not know much about Africa
<$C> <#/>Yeah maybe because he was enquiring a lot of things from me
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So
<$B> <#/>And for that matter what <-/>what was he implying <#/>Was he implying that in Canada uh people are not 
<$B> <#/>people are not all that religious
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>And then if they are it is just an insignificant of them 
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>Okay
<$C> <#/>Yeah they don't see it because people are comfortable
<$B> <#/>I see
<$C> <#/>So you bring a <O/> to them tell them that this is the new way
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>And they are already comfortable you see uh
<$B> <#/>They don't bother 
<$C> <#/>So the impact is just insignificant 
<$C> <#/>So to a very big extent or to a large extent
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>What <O/> was saying that uh
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>You see when you have problem is the time people rush to church <#/>I think  is a 
<$C> <#/>is appointment to <O/>
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/>to hold water
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>So you must be wondering why people must go to the church
<$C> <#/>Yes that is the question I have been asking myself for a very long time
<$B> <#/><-/>Mhm
<$C> <#/>and I have even come to conclusion on subjective basis 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>that I should not maybe consider myself as one of the people to go in the street because of any church <#/>I don't just love it
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>I have found that it is of no use 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>In fact it is expensive
<$B> <#/>And is very expensive
<$C> <#/>and in fact <O/> are commercialising it and most of the people are not even 
<$C> <#/>Yes
<$B> <#/>This thing they call <$C> <#/>And with this money
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>and out of this money
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>the man can even buy some of the <-/>the his house properties
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>Uh and it is that money 
<$C> <#/>That is what she is going to <O/>
<$B> <#/>Surely
<$C> <#/>They don't misuse it
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>They are supposed to be not
<$B> <#/>No for the wedding 
<$B> <#/><O/> collect some money to be used during the wedding
<$C> <#/>Yeah during the wedding
<$B> <#/>But you know these are <O/> because of the wedding 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>then they find their houses and begin to
<$C> <#/>Yeah and even <-_>and even<-/> 
<$C> <#/>And even develop a plot 
<$C> <#/>They can even develop a plot
<$B> <#/>I mean they have got this fund for their wedding or something else
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>so is not fair to the people
<$D> <#/>Is not fair
<$C> <#/>And it is very bad by the time we are waiting for a class in the mph
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and so there is a lady a certain lady who brought her another card for us <#/>I was sitting next to Kabuwe
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>so Kabuwe abuwe told us that if it is for wedding I am not going to contribute
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>Which class was that government class
<$C> <#/>We were waiting <-_>we were waiting<-/> here we were in a <-_>we were<-/> in second year
<$D> <#/>Second year <-/>aha
<$C> <#/>We were waiting for government class
<$B> <#/><-/>aha
<$C> <#/>The lady was so much embarrassed
<$D> <#/>Why
<$C> <#/>Usually because she was expecting that at least we contribute and then if uh we don't have money there and then
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>then we can write something and later on give him give her the money
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>But by the time we just put her off <-/>ey 
<$B> <#/>And it was pre-wedding card
<$C> <#/>Yeah pre-wedding card  
<$B> <#/>Things are commercialising these days
<$D> <#/>Uh
<$B> <#/>Too <-/>too entrepreneur in nature
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$D> <#/>So you decided not to 
<$C> <#/>Me I have come to a point whereby I don't think it is important to <O/> first the principle that the first principle that I have based on my rejection for wedding is that maybe people are taking it to be a kind of a show-off
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>Somebody wants to display how much
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>how much <O/> used in the wedding
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>And now you see it is like a competition such that
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>When you let's say for my case now if I don't have enough <-_fund><+_funds> to uh spend for the wedding
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/><O/> below that level 
<$D> <#/>And others <-/>others take it for prestigious purposes you see
<$C> <#/>Yeah others you see people have been 
<$D> <#/>That you <-/>you are all Christians and you've been going to church together and now somebody you can even hear somebody I mean 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>carrying on some rumour that so and so <O/> this is the way he is that he cannot even hold a wedding he cannot and then they claim to be Christians you know is just to <-/>to diminish others I mean relegate others
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>while you praise yourself you feel prestigious
<$B> <#/>It has become a matter of competition
<$D> <#/>Yeah and then 
<$D> <#/>They are distorting the meaning of the thing all together  <#/>And this thing has discouraged many people from doing their weddings in churches because
<$B> <#/>Uh 
<$D> <#/>So in my case I don't know that is still a question I put to in suspense 
<$D> <#/>Anyway I have not decided which way to follow 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>I can use the traditional way which is still fine 
<$B> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>Or you <-/>you wed in 
<$D> <#/>Yeah these are all possibilities  <#/>Maybe a time will come I will maybe get to I will <O/> it
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$D> <#/>Yeah about it
<$A> <#/>So let's go back to this issue of religion boy
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>You know I <-/>ey  <#/>Do you people believe in the existence of uh spirit <O/> spirit
<$B> <#/><O/> spirit
<$A> <#/>Uh that when someone dies there are so many <O/> spirits there 
<$A> <#/>Even yellow spirit boy
<$B> <#/><O/> spirit <#/>Well I don't know  
<$C> <#/><O/> being philosophical rather than being religious
<$A> <#/>Yeah the two must go together because you see philosophy asks why this
<$C> <#/>Uh and religion asks why this in philosophy
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>in fact during medieval time the argument is that philosophy is a lot of religion
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>And religious people argue that is now <#/>No I mean is the philosophy people are arguing that 
<$C> <#/>that religion comprises of philosophy 
<$A> <#/>That is the conflict between religion and philosophy
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>Yeah
<$C> <#/>But I don't see anything wrong with it <#/>We can just discuss it for the sake of being I mean rationally and looking at things critically
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>without even basing our arguments on okay without even referring to those who are only religious people or those who are only philosophers
<$A> <#/>Yeah that is general now <#/>Do you think this thing called soul does it exist <#/>Do we have <#/>Does human being have a soul
<$C> <#/>Now what do you mean by a soul
<$A> <#/>Is like in religion <#/>I have heard many people say that you see when you die your soul goes somewhere
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>or something for that <O/>
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>So I have tended to doubt there is one court house
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>So that thing they call that I don't know 
<$C> <#/>In fact in Plato Platonic sense
<$A> <#/>Plato that one will be different because I think they were pretty so
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>to <O/>
<$C> <#/>to psyche
<$A> <#/>Yeah I think so
<$C> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>In the mind
<$C> <#/>Yeah in the mind
<$A> <#/>That is why we think that you see when you
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>the soul goes to the world of the ideal world of <-/>of forms
<$C> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>so that it goes back again into and <-_inhabit><+_inhabits> another body
<$C> <#/><-/>aha 
<$A> <#/>in the process of <O/> or so
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>the Platonic kind of transfiguration or so
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>So that one I think you don't believe in <#/>I don't know  but I think it was like <O/>
<$C> <#/>If we don't divorce philosophy do you think that  can be equivalent of God <#/>You mean they mean the same thing
<$A> <#/>the ghost
<$C> <#/>I think a ghost has usually been <-/>been taken in the sense that it means something that is <#/>Okay those spirits that are somehow evil
<$A> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>and they are not out for the main good of those who are still living now for a soul <#/>It is taken to be something that is <-/>is something holy and when someone dies it will be going to either to hell or going somewhere where we don't know waiting for the judgement according to religion
<$A> <#/>So do you think a soul can be associated with something good or a ghost is
<$C> <#/>That is what I tend to think but I stand to be corrected <#/>I don't know
<$B> <#/>Yes of course
<$A> <#/>Me I don't think so because now if we associate a ghost to something negative that is what you imply
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>Therefore it means that saying Holy Ghost if they say that God is Holy Ghost in Christianity
<$C> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>So what does then 
<$A> <#/>You see it is contradictory now 
<$A> <#/>Holy and ghost and then you say that ghost is something I mean is a spirit that is bad that causes evil on peoples
<$C> <#/><-/>aha
<$A> <#/>that brings things that are negative
<$C> <#/>Okay <#/>Yeah something of that nature <#/>How do you say about to such an extent <#/>I don't think <#/>I think I speak uh
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$C> <#/>So it can still be treated to a ghost 
<$A> <#/>A ghost uh
<$B> <#/>Yeah then if at all a ghost then I think they exist because I have heard of stories where people say they saw so <-/>so and so that died <#/>Have you heard of such a story
<$A> <#/>Yeah I have heard of such stories but I am still yet to understand how really it is <#/>You see you can't understand some of these things and you don't know how they come about 
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>How can somebody say that somebody died a long time ago and now she saw the ghost of the same <-/>same person also last night
<$B> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>You wonder what is really happening for that matter <#/>I think we can in fact
<$C> <#/>So we have a ghost <#/>That is what we conclude
<$A> <#/>A ghost and a spirit 
<$C> <#/>Uh
<$A> <#/>it is just the same thing <#/>These are synonymous terms
<$C> <#/>Yeah
<$A> <#/>so that we can have an evil spirit or an evil ghost and <-/>and a good spirit you see
<$B> <#/>Or good ghost
<$A> <#/>Yeah maybe we could have such things 
 
</I>
S1A017K
<I> <$A> <#/>What I'm saying is you said I should and I say I'm going to get married or I intend to later on but right now I think it just depends if the right person comes along <#/>Now this thing of being swept off your feet
 <$B> <#/>Now let me suggest specify a certain point from here <#/>I get married at the twentieth of July after I leave campus
<$A> <#/>No but what's your right age to get married <#/>There is never a right day <#/>The right is I think is more the right time than the right age <#/>How do you know you're ready for a marriage <O/> uh the day my daughter was ready to marry if not you must be quite unfortunate 
<$C> <#/>it's true <#/>That's why I think marriage really it has to wait
<$B> <#/>Waiting with all the frog's faith your beauty create the prince
<$A> <#/>Why it has <O/> it has to be 
<$B> <#/>Well it happens to most of the people is that you know you can only take a case study of yourself.
<$C> <#/>Now let's take a case whereby maybe your background at home you see marriages and you see directly what is happening in marriages <#/>You see them breaking up going towards divorce and all that <#/>Why should I look forward to marriage after I've seen all that
<$B> <#/>Well I believe here the situation is different
<$A> <#/>Yeah 
<$C> <#/>circumstance
<B> <#/>I also think that you can take the opponents of the work this institution work <#/>Look make a difference to be one it means 
<$C> <#/>To prove your points there are also some marriages which are very good still <#/>You know people live happily they <?/>need together understand each other <#/>I think the main thing here is just understanding
<$A> <#/>and get paid
<$B> <#/>my at least in I don't say <O/> when my brideprice enough
<$A> <#/>with any marriage
<$C> <#/>Yeah and I'm not going without that price being big
<$B> <#/>I think is this the prevailing situation <#/>You know things are changing for the better or for the worse or whatever so brideprice actually is uh what individualistic
<$A> <#/>culturally I think
<$B> <#/>so we should do our road
<$C> <#/>Well let's say your parents you might want to do it but your parents might not <#/>See after educating you all these years they may want to get something after the whole process 
<$?> <#/>But no right right now <?/>divisions are basic need
<$C> <#/>It is yes it's a basic need but the sacrifices your parents had you got it
<$B> <#/>More than this my husband is more educated than I am you have to be <O/> you know
<$C> <#/>He still <-_>he still<-/> has to pay for that kind of respective work when you are <-_took><+_taken>
<$A> <#/>I don't <-_>I don't<-/> <#/>I just find <O/> it drags <-_>it drags<-/> marriages and all like if I go without him being anything it's like have eloped and I wouldn't want to have that reputation that I eloped
<$B> <#/>I think uh Christianity authorists have off to claim peace <#/>My parents never paid that kind of brideprice in the fifties can you believe 
<$C> <#/>Yeah my mum would have paid for brideprice <#/>I think it was not the boys <#/>They are trying to set an example in a society where everyone else is doing this but still today when I meet my cousin <O/> my mum would have paid for your brideprice <#/>So if anything happens its opponents give in if that situation arises at you you have to pay 
<$A> <#/>But I okay thanks that setting communities whereby if like your mother has given that brideprice now when she dies there arises a problem your mother's people will come and claim that she is still their daughter <slang/>'coz they don't recognise your father
<$?> <#/>Yeah for us is a provision provided if yeah to get that lady instead where you have to pay an initial price of three goats <#/>Once you have three goats just three goats as it were <-/>were three goats in faith three goats nothing can separate you even if they go to the courts 
<$?> <#/>I see your father has to pay three goats
<$?> <#/>Three goats 
<$?> <#/>to your mother's people
<$A> <#/>I believe three goats yeah <#/>First when you're going to meet them you take beer and take four goats one the people eat and the other three are kept
<$B> <#/>Okay so that one has already cleared that
<$C> <#/>That's cleared that <#/>Now let's setting the stage for any other things that you would want to give your <$B> <#/>Is the first thing your father goes to your mother's home
<$A> <#/>No
<$B> <#/>Is it like an introduction <#/>Is it like to propose yourself a proposal like for the marriage or your mother is already gone
<$C> <#/>Okay first the two people might have met before the parents no long time it was used to be parents sometimes arranged from both sides <#/>But now in these days they meet by themselves and that's okay so <#/>Well much later they can do the tradition if they want to get married <#/>First we shall go through the custom the custom of really <O_><O/> <#/>your parents have the goat <O_><O/> <#/>there's a goat in your hand that you want to dig <O_><O/> <#/>So now it's up to your parents to say yes only to say yes <#/>When they have the goat they <-/>they go and bring the first goat and beer they did bring it <#/>It's called the beer step into the home
<$A> <#/>Yeah saying step in the home that beer both parents take <#/>First the lady takes the mother the bride's mother takes gifts to the bride's father <#/>After they take gifts their negotiations start <#/>If the <O/> go ahead means when they can go back and bring the goats <#/>At this stage the parents can still say no <#/>The parents now will have now they might have goat <#/>But the <?/>ops they obviously leave the <-/>the goats in their ropes 
<$B> <#/><-/>mhm that's we believe we're saying all the first time we never get married again
<$C> <#/>So that they have to just agree 
<$A> <#/>they have to agree
<$B> <#/>for every proposal what comes
<$C> <#/>for every proposal that comes <#/>I mean if a man is interested in you
<$B> <#/>okay
<$A> <#/>what is holding you back that's the way they used to live
<$C> <#/>it's like the girl has no choice
<$B> <#/>yeah that's right <#/>It's sort of like the girl has no say <#/>If the man is interested then she just has to go
<$A> <#/>she has to go yeah
<$B> <#/>whether she likes it or not
<$C> <#/>whether she like it or not
<$B> <#/>that's forced
<$C> <#/>yeah
<$A> <#/>to get married
<$?> <#/>they did initial three goats that are still alive <#/>They're supposed to be still alive <#/>They're not supposed to be killed <#/>It's only the <-/>the one that's slaughtered supposed to be three <-_goat><+_goats> 
<$A> <#/>okay well at least it's shows promise you promise to take care of something
<$?> <#/>yeah
<$B> <#/>which will be accepted <#/>But this really it's like
<$C> <#/>so even in the contemporary society another case right now examined interesting and we read out here obvious that will be the arranged marriages <#/>We read out here first he has to bring his four goats
<$A> <#/>okay nowadays you get these people where which would say come and stay whereby you move into your boyfriend's house and you stay <#/>You have your first kid second kid before he even meets your parents <#/>Now then one great day he just <-_meet><+_meets> someone else and he went dresses up from your house which you live in and then he goes to attend the wedding <#/>You only get to hear that your husband got married your boyfriend got married <#/>Now in this case he will leave you <#/>You don't have a basis on which to say that you are married but according to everyone of the neighbours you are married <slang/>'coz you used to live together
<$?> <#/>that comes still estate agencies yeah comes state nothing you need
<$B> <#/>now I'd rather say not go through that
<$C> <#/>at this stage they may think brideprice is not 
<$?> <#/>it's important
<$?> <#/>that's why I'm saying
<$?> <#/>it's a binding
<$?> <#/>it has to <-_>it has to<-/> be there <#/>There is no other way we can do <#/>We just walk up to be parents
<$A> <#/>no but on the other hand is the legal procedure that means you can either go to the DC and you declare you're married <#/>At least something to show <#/>Know that one day you'll just walk out and that is all
<$B> <#/>I don't know why <#/>I don't know why but have this feeling that this is the <-_>that this is the<-/> register place <#/>It's not so bad but compared to the custom you can just wake up and say no forget it we are not into each other we're just bad <#/>But you see now before you get to separate and you've gone through the other custom of the brideprice the traditional manner then in a state of trying to reconciliate 
<$C> <#/>as in the it is a provision for that by the entrance
<$B> <#/>yeah you have to come if you decide to divorce will take a long process <#/>First you go to your mother-in-law <#/>You tell her why you want you don't want this man anymore in your life <#/>If she can't settle the thing you have come to the state you might just go back to your place to your mother's place <#/>If you go now the <O/> would come to your parents' home <#/>From then on you can sort things out and problems but and you can't go back. 
<$A> <#/>now like let's say there are some cases whereby men take brideprice to be like binding and so they can beat you any time they're drunk they can send you home any time you <$B> <#/>no on that basis I'd rather not have brideprice
<$C> <#/>surely now it's become a punishing bargain because you never feel good
<$A> <#/><slang/>'coz every time you do something they want to be paid brideprice or to get some proof when you didn't go and cut the tails from the goats like if <-/>if <-/>if you punishing him because of the brideprice you paid then reduce them <#/>So you go home and cut the tail from the goats so it becomes less for a cow so that I'm worth what I am 
<$B> <#/>is it a sort of idiom 
<$A> <#/>it's an idiom
<$C> <#/>it's an idiom
<$B> <#/>it's an idiom yeah <#/>You go and cut the goat
<$C> <#/>cut the tails
<$C> <#/>cut the tails so it is the worth that will count
<$B> <#/>my worth <#/>I'm worth what I am
<$A> <#/>okay
<$C> <#/>you do have to count that you bought him <#/>We are equal
<$B> <#/>but nowadays people don't pay with goats <#/>You go with money and other things
<$C> <#/>it's commercialised
<$A> <#/>it's commercialised <#/>It's a business
<$B> <#/>yeah sure
<$C> <#/>the more daughters you have it is the rich person <#/>Yeah in fact most <-_African><+_Africans> now the men nowadays they'd rather have daughters than boys as opposed long time when you get a daughter you go and throw it in the bush <#/>You don't want to reduce your <O/> <#/>In my country giving back two daughters only is supposed to give back two sons also
<$A> <#/>sounds very expensive
<$C> <#/>land you have to give them land
<$B> <#/>you have to provide for that brideprice
<$C> <#/>yeah you have to pay the brideprice <#/>In fact your father pays for you the brideprice
<$A> <#/>and let the other party I understand that is the lady who pays
<$B> <#/>the lady pays for the man and <-/>and it's the lady who's the called head of the house
<$C> <#/>the head of the house 
<$A> <#/>why not no that you think to <-/>to want to dominate
<$B> <#/>no it's however much I'll want to dominate I still want to see the man as the man not as the one I bought
<$C> <#/>still yeah like you can <-_>you can<-/> go anytime according to how you want it you can leave until you go plus the brideprice <#/>I don't want this is just the worst state <#/>He doesn't want you <#/>He doesn't want his brideprice back so you know that really is no way is no doubt about it he does not want you back
<$B> <#/>he does not write to you a word anymore
<$C> <#/>yeah or he brings another a second wife and then he says say I paid the brideprice at your home what is wrong with me paying brideprice at another home 
<$A> <#/>he gets all has all the money <#/>They can marry as many wives as they can depending on how much money you have <#/>Provided you can pay brideprice it is okay <#/>You can even marry ten in the age of the grandchildren it's okay.
<$C> <#/>in fact the worst thing of the old man wanting to marry the young <#/>You know you marry someone that is younger than your own children much younger
<$B> <#/>much much younger
<$A> <#/>just because you know you have the women have no say in this you know
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