S1A001K <$A> You can join them and do the cooking <$B> Sammy has <-_switch><+_switched> off your radio <$C> Yeah you can sit <$D> Oh You're not supposed to have music with that <$A> Now you guys can continue <$C> What is it <$?> What are we supposed to talk about by the way <$?> Si my ugali <$?> Tell us anything <$?> You know Sue you are so conscious It is so hard to just talk <$C> We want to talk about my ugali and why men cook <$A> Is it allowed <$C> Why should men cook <$?> Sasa we Jwan si you ask us questions I think that time he was asking akina Judy questions si ndio <$?> Yeah <$A> No I wasn't asking them questions <$?> You were 'cause you <$A> Okay those Those ones came 'cause Judy wanted to know so she was asking and I was asking her questions also <$?> Oh my You better ask us questions <$A> No gosh <$?> You are people of very few words <$A> No You <./>Y <-/>You just have to find something to discuss <$?> Now discuss what The party was discussed now what can we discuss about <$C> Sammy <$?> <$C> find some discussion <$?> Yeah let us talk <$C> You can talk <$?> Uh <$C> I'm wondering just why men cook <$?> Why men cook <$C> Uh <$?> Ati why men cook <$?> They have to cook because they eat <$C> Are they meant to cook really <$?> Yeah Kwani <$C> Why They don't have soft fingers and such <$?> You have come in with shoes <$A> Uh Sorry people are not oh yeah I saw a notice on the door Oh I'm very sorry for that <$?> Oh pole sana <$?> <$?> <$?> <-/>mhm So si you talk <$A> Are you guys with Olivia in the same class <$?> Sorry <$?> No <$?> No <$?> She's in same class with Judy And we are in the same class <$C> Oh which one is TMS and which one is SOC <$?> TMS is her SOC is me <$C> And GPA <$?> Oh uh you want to know the full whatever uh acronyms yeah <$C> <-/>mhm <$?> That's where the full whatever <$C> No I know them <$?> Uh <$C> But I was wondering who is in GPA who is in SOC <$?> It's only Judy <$?> Us we are SOC major <$C> Oh okay <$?> Yes but different minors <$C> Do you mind closing your window or it will interfere with you again <$?> Why Why <$C> It may interfere with recording <$?> Serious <$C> I'm not sure but if you need it there is no problem <$?> I wish the would keep quiet They are making so much noise <$C> Imagine I was in your place What do you call these things <$?> <./>Tho Those two of mites what are they <-_call><+_called> <$C> Oh the fleas <$?> The fleas <$C> The fleas yeah <$?> You didn't seal your whatever you're sealing <$C> Yes I did but <$?> We did <$C> I did but <$?> What type did you use This one <$C> No <$?> The masking tape <$C> Yes but not the small one <$?> Oh okay <$C> It is now fair so many around <$?> <-/>mhm <$C> So many <$?> But you know those things I think they depend on the whatever the whether If it's hot they are in plenty If it's cold they are scarce <$C> What the flees or the bugs <$?> The flees I don't know They hibernate on something <$A> No but I think si this time it means the birds have hatched <$?> No I don't know because when it was cold those things were not there You remember the days we used to go to the bathroom and find those things You come with them from your bathroom there were none They get into your hair and you are in problems <$C> They get into your hair <$?> Uh <$A> Are you serious <$?> But you know for guys you just wash <$?> For us <$?> For guys you just wash Now imagine like Flo's hair yeah if that thing just decides to go in it <$C> I know it can be very difficult <$?> 'Cause I remember that time I was in 101 those things were in my room <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> Those things were in my room So I hadn't plaited my hair <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> So I used to whatever They used to come in I had to wash and blow dry or just blow dry without washing <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> <-/>mhm <$A> You take to You take your hair to a blow drier <$?> Yeah even if you have just done that one and they die <$A> When you blow dry <$?> Yeah <$A> Uh <$?> <-/>mhm but that one is expensive <$A> Gosh <$?> You just have to keep on <$C> The way I can't put my head in that thing I would remove it before it <$?> No don't that's a drier Blow dry is first like a comb <$A> Uh <$?> A hot comb <$C> It is not that <./>ki machine that somebody uh <$?> The way that thing exploded on somebody's head <$?> By the way another time I saw that thing exploded on somebody's head <$A> Exploded <$?> Yeah The drier I don't <$?> Here <$?> Yeah I don't know what happened but phoop That is how it went <$A> Gosh <$?> You see somebody in the <-_>in the<-/> whatever in the drier <$?> It was a short circuit <$?> I think so or those guys don't know how to operate those things <$C> They just know how to put on and off <$?> Off yeah And just to regulate <$?> They should go for training seriously <$?> uh here this lady had a flat face <$C> The one wearing specs <$?> uh that one <$C> Oh <$?> And then she looks like a whatever a <$A> She is the one who won the uh <$?> The MUSO <$C> She's the one who won uh <$?> The MUSO <$C> Uh the same many <$?> Is she the one <$?> uh that was <$C> In <$?> That was when I was in second year or third year <$C> When <$?> When we were in second year or third year <$?> Third year Was it third year or second year <$?> Second <-/>second <-/>second year <$?> There was no Lucy in third year <$?> There was no Lucy in third year <$C> uh si they could have refused the film <$?> They were scared <$C> They were scared those guys could have made some <$A> Someone told me that she won something <$?> Who <$A> Someone told me she won something <$?> She won something like what <$C> Some awards or what <$A> <./>Li <$?> Gathoni <$?> Perhaps those women things She's always attending conferences by the way <$?> Which one <$A> The <-/>ee the lipstick is it lipstick <$C> There was no competition <$?> No I don't think <$A> They were giving awards to for people who use their products <$?> Where <$A> And she won <$?> Here <./>i or in Nairobi <$A> Here <-/>here <-/>here <-/>here <-/>here on the campus here <$?> Those guys have never come <-_this><+_these> sides <$A> Somebody was just <-/>just making fun that she's one of the people who put a lot of lipsticks <$?> uh Sammy <$C> I'm there <$?> The degree <$C> uh <$?> Here I was fat <$?> This guy by the way What's the name of this guy We're in the same group with him <$?> Mwaniki <$?> Mwaniki is not a man <$?> Just wait you know This guy it's like we were in another GPA class so it's like we were divided into groups Then this guy when it came time for presenting he took off and he was the guy who was supposed to present <$A> Did he <$?> This guy uh where is he This one did you want his cheeks to shake in class <$?> Yes his chubby cheeks <$C> There <-/>there is another guy in class he is a little fat We had a presentation for population economics <-/>hoho the cheeks shook <$?> Who is this 'Cause in your class guys are very few <$A> Which group was this now <$?> That's TMS class In this TMS I used to think he <$?> This man disappointed us Wanyoike <$A> Okay you know this guy is coming to spray my room today <$?> They came <$A> Yeah <$?> Can you stay in your room The smell is usually very bad <$A> They sprayed in the morning <$?> Oh Okay <$A> Uh but I found them throwing my things all over the place <$?> But you're supposed to clear your things <$A> I don't know <$?> When they are spraying <$?> You were not there <$A> No <$?> Wairimu was there <$A> Yeah But they had told me to clear I didn't I didn't know exactly what they meant by clearing <$?> The utensils <$A> Yeah those ones were not there <$?> Oh yeah your bed exactly They spray the bed <$?> They <-/>they <-/>they spray so much that it's liquid kabisa <$A> Uh Uh <$?> Me I can't imagine having to sleep in a bed that's sprayed <$A> They really sprayed <$C> There was a time they sprayed my room I stayed for two days without sleeping there <$A> The smell is too much <$C> The thing is too much You can't sleep <$?> You open the window <$A> Just open there is no problem No problem It's no big deal okay <$?> Spray <$A> But I've realised the bugs are not as many here <$?> I find them so many <$A> No <$?> Oh this place <$A> Yeah <$?> Now they are quiet At six five by the way they are usually awake <$?> In the morning <$?> Yeah As soon as <$?> Even a few minutes ago they were making so much noise you feel like they might fall there yeah <$?> Nyakima <$C> Yeah <$?> Just come we are here There is no noise so don't come and start making noise <$?> <-/>Ah now why are you guys locking the door <$?> Uh Come in <$A> Oh the door was locked <$?> Come in <$?> I saw him today <$?> You saw him today By the way he's been cleaning the corridors He's been slashing <$?> <$?> <-/>mhm Seriously <$C> <-/>mhm is it <$?> By the way have you seen him slashing some other day over here <$C> <$?> You my neighbour sasa <$?> Where were you going to <$?> <-/>Ah <$?> <$A> Okay sit down and talk <$?> No You don't have to like it <$?> Uh uh I hate it That's why I don't want to listen to it <$?> But you now you are already here <$?> So this is specimen A <$?> See you talk <$?> There's nothing to talk about <$A> There <-/>There <-/>There is a problem I have with them <$?> Yeah You see Ajaja kumbe You guys are just boring this way <$?> No but you should talk <$?> How long are we supposed to talk <$?> Don't mind <$?> Maybe I'm supposed to talk <$?> should be talking more even <$?> And the way Jwan is looking at people <$?> I'm not a man of many words <$?> Prompting <$?> Let me see that photo <$?> Just TMS photo <$?> So when are you going to going there <$?> <-/>mhm I don't know but it's this Friday <$?> At night <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> The party <$?> The bus is taking you guys <$?> at Sirikwa <$?> A dinner costing three hundred shillings <$?> The bus is taking you guys <$?> Yeah <$?> and back <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> For those who will want to break a leg <$?> They shall not be allowed in only sixty people <$?> No <-/>no uh uh uh You did not get my question Those who want to remain behind and dance <$?> <-/>mhm it's a Friday <$?> It's a Friday I mean <$?> Oh I guess those ones can go and hang as long as you don't leave the party to go and hang But I can't leave a party to go and hang I first have to eat before I go and hang <$?> No You know people are looking for employers 'cause those are prospective employers <$?> Yeah The guys are coming over <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> But you know they should have invited enough people <$?> Which guys <$?> Are they coming <$?> Are they responding <$?> MDs from several companies <$?> Are they coming Are they <-/>they coming <$C> Yeah ten of them have already confirmed <$?> Like which companies <$C> The companies like East African <-/>mhm <$A> Who is <-_>who is<-/> paying for the dinner <$?> They pay for themselves <$C> You <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You pay three hundred and then the university will subsidise with something small <$?> Now us people like okay GPA <$?> Just leave alone that even guys of USIU who do business <./>admin all those business <./>admin it's like their course <$C> It's just like a course <$?> I don't think we <-/>aha <$?> But I <-/>I think we do more courses than them But it's more of less that is what people know <$C> There <-/>There is also this course called management studies It's also done by some of the institutions <$?> Yeah this is your <$?> And I think <./>tha uh <./>th that's what we mostly do management studies So we are going to sell ourselves <$?> You have to talk nicely Talk nicely <$A> No they are going to market themselves <$?> Africans will just say they are going to sell themselves <$?> It's <-/>It's just a direct translation <$?> <$?> <$?> You know to market yourself is a broad lasting thing <$A> East African industries will take a few of you definitely <$?> <-/>mhm <$A> They always have some jobs <$?> But you see the problem like <-/>ah these guys who cleared last year they are going for an interview yeah for management trainees at EAI Then you are asked 'cause you know guys from Nai are close to them that's guys yeah And <-/>and the guys will tell they don't BA they don't know So these guys go and ask si you there to be interviewed Those guys will come and asked who has done sijui mass project project Moi guys and Eger guys are like what are those you know S1A002K <$A> But I was told some <-_interview><+_interviews> were being conducted <$?> Yeah they conducted interviews by the way <$?> That's what I'm saying See normally they go for an interview and of course the people who will pass will pass and the guys who are taken are taken and you <-/>you fail or you are not taken that's what cuts As in generally they might not even pick and after all this they might not even pick or elect someone from Moi uh because they have a wide variety of people Are you hearing me Ask She'll tell you <$?> She got picked <$?> No they were picked for the interview They were the shortlisted guys but you see the interview is just preliminary as in theatre Now they are going to sit down the panel and staff if you are not they want eight as in generally from Nairobi <$C> Who told you <$?> Ask the people who went for the interview themselves They will tell you the story <$?> Even Pascal was there <-_>was there<-/> by the way Yeah she was there They were dressed even some were carrying purses <$?> For the interview <$?> guys were really threaded <$?> But you see there was competition <$C> No you don't take chances <$?> You know unga yangu is spoilt <$C> <$?> You check for the expiry date <$?> <$?> It is expired but I wonder whether it's <$?> No ninety-six <$C> Oh let me see <$?> See ninety-six <$?> January <$?> Oh it's January <$?> January <$?> Uh <$?> Try <-_>Try <-/> <$?> Try what uh uh <$A> Now what shows that it's expired <$?> In fact if it had If it was really bad you would see those threads <$A> No it's not bad It is not bad I don't think it is <$?> I once got some with worms <$?> What <$?> I once bought unga and found worms I just I took it back to the shop immediately <$?> Here <-/>Here <$?> No in at home <$C> There's a <-/>There's <-/>a time it was like that in the whole country <$?> But you can't die once I bought uji mix and made porridge and we drank and we didn't die Jwan tell me Do you know how to cook this nyuka kal <$C> Uh yes <$?> You are supposed to boil <$?> Yeah <$?> Wait <-/>Wait You are supposed to boil <$A> Yeah <$?> Yeah it is supposed to boil <$?> Is it supposed to boil <$A> When <$?> Is it supposed to boil <$?> When you're cooking out you cook that uji <$?> Wait <$?> How <$?> Oh how And she was telling us if it boils it will katika so it will become so light <$?> How does it taste <$A> Yeah it's <-/>it's wimbi <$?> It's not supposed to boil Even my granny I used to see her <$C> Oh I know <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> <-_>I know<-/> the one which is not supposed to boil <$?> <$?> Yeah how is it called <$C> That one you are not supposed to boil <$?> You just boil like then you remove it <$C> <$?> Uh I'm surprised your mother doesn't complain <$A> But it's still the same <$?> But it usually boils <$A> I'm not sure <$?> Uh it is not supposed to boil Hi Nicky <$?> Hello <$A> Hello How are you <$?> Fine Thank you <$?> <-/>mhm was there was there another project left <$?> I don't think so This one is the last one <$?> I came to visit Oh you want that <$?> I was in another group <$?> You were doing some work <$?> Which group was that <$?> <$?> And you are going to them <$?> Yes <$?> Nicky who in particular invited you <$?> Is it somebody I know <$?> Not somebody you know <$?> I know He's not a <-/>a technique <$?> I know <$?> Guys why are you on that chick like that <$?> Oh She She's <-/>She's blushing quick and then she stays longer <$?> No don't know the guy Already I'm a still <$?> You are hanging in between somewhere <$?> Uh uh <$?> That thing called chemistry <$?> Olivia <$?> Yeah <$?> What are you going to do in future <$?> I want to become a counsellor <$?> Join Carlo <$?> uh <$C> Counsellor <$?> Uh <$C> <$?> Counsellor as in advising people or like a mayor <$?> It's supposed to be a <-/>a counsellor or a <$C> So you want to become a counsellor or a councillor <$?> A counsellor <$?> mayor <$?> Counsellor for counselling people like the woman <$?> I just want to be I know why she's asking me that 'cause <$A> Judy <$?> Judy <$?> Yeah <$?> Why do ask me that <$A> Prepare your chapatis well because I'm coming I'm not going anywhere <$?> You want to be part of this congregation <$?> Yeah <$?> so please <$?> Multitude <$?> <$?> In direct translation si that's what they say <$C> in Jango <$?> <$?> There is nothing like that <$?> I don't have that <$?> <$A> <$?> <$C> What is that now <$?> <$?> <$C> <-/>aha <$A> Yeah when you are putting water for cooking <$?> <$?> Like this story I heard a guy who went to the this akasema hapana now this babe thinks this ugali will be enough Then he saw another drum there this thing had These guys used to slaughter some animals so they put the blood there So this guy thought this was a drum of water by that time the babe had gone just outside kidogo He scooped and just poured the thing So the babe was making ugali uh It was red and <-/clotty> That's the time she knew that this guy <$?> He makes these thatched houses whereby you used these <$C> The lamps <$?> these <-/>these not even candles these funny lamps <$?> kerosene <$C> we call them candles <$A> ati what <$?> <$?> Like a candle <$?> She took <$?> <-/>mhm I didn't see the one <$?> She used the red basin <$?> I used this I'm actually using it <$?> Okay So the relationship just stopped 'cause the guy was greedy <$?> <$?> <$C> <$A> Why did you say that <$C> Uh <$A> Why did you find that <$C> <$A> Uh <$C> That Kiswahili saying <$A> Yeah <$C> That one I got through my experience <$?> You are a geography teacher <$C> I had a geography teacher who when he uses uh one uh what do you call those things <$A> Uh <$C> Those things <$?> Proverbs <$C> Those <./>ma proverbs <$A> Yeah <$C> Then he just misplaces them <$A> <$C> Like now let's say you go to Nairobi <$A> Yeah <$C> And maybe you're messed up <$?> There's not even a relevance <$C> And it does not apply completely <$A> Okay <$?> It's a very difficult one <$?> We used to cram those things <$?> Leave alone cramming Mulao and their explanations <$?> We actually We knew what they were the saying But you had to know the meaning <$?> And even write a story about it <$?> You know uh You had to know you had to jua <$A> Yeah they are very interesting <$?> <-/>mhm <$?> <$?> <$A> Basic knowledge Knowledge for knowledge's sake It's true like <$?> But I think I think what we used to do in Seco We used to learn Here we are not learning Sure here your marks and you seriously here we're not learning <$C> No <-/>No <-/>No But Uh uh Yeah No it is true <$?> No <$C> The way I used to read in Seco me I used to read those things <$?> Let me tell you Let me tell you why you're learning whatever you're learning 'Cause you <-/>you do something which really occupies your mind and you are really required a lot of thinking like accounts you ours it's si I'll get this mark in this CAT or something <-/>something like that Us we don't keep something in the head <$C> Application us guys have to apply a lot <$?> Us we have no continuation by the way 'cause it's like whatever you do this semester just ends <$?> Do you apply your GPA <$?> Well maybe administration but that is for people who will be in those public offices <$?> You are not going to be there <$?> Si I'm a counsellor <$C> What grade do you <$?> you remember the kanini you've just done now <$?> sexual harassment uh guys today the best topic that people would have wanted to go on until the end of the semester People have come up with their own ideas Lakini how can boys who've gone to school think like that Uh <$?> What are they saying <$C> What were they saying <$?> I mean there <-/>there are obvious things like for example this story of <-/provocativeness> or you are dressed provocatively You it keeps coming up ati you know that chick was she dressed provocatively but there are obvious things for example this story of uh that chick was raped because she dressed provocatively but it's all in the mind If I have dressed I mean I wouldn't wear something that is not decent you know So long as I'm dressed i I jua I'm decent yeah even if it's minis People wear minis please yeah <$C> What about if it is not decent <$?> But it's you you <$?> Are you an animal that if you see a lady's legs you just feel <$?> No <./>e <./>e exactly that is what the teacher said It is the animal instinct that takes over because really you are provoked as in you've seen and it's like okay those are nice legs ooh she is <$?> Just appreciate <$?> Appreciate and move on You can admire and that's it Why do you go out of your way to grab her and rape her and then you say she provoked me and someone came up with this idea that this chick who was raped in Mombasa she was a Muslim in a bikini and you know the way bikinis are What would you say about that Was she provocative really no What was wrong <$C> What <-/>What about What about women who rape men <$?> Okay there was all that they said <$C> No you have You never <-_>You never<-/> seen this movie <-_>this movie<-/> called The Disclosure It shows how women when they are given power what they can do This lady was atop somebody She was an executive manager somewhere and then the guy <$?> She had a guy a small guy <$C> uh and the guy <$?> But that is not really rape <$C> It's just power If they are given power they also be raping men <$?> But let me tell you the woman by the way she'll be in that top position with the other workers you know what she will do she will make advances at you She will make you know She will not just come and tell you come in dress you and say or rape you know this way rape <-/rape> <-/rape> <$?> We women we have that shame We are not like guys have no shame and guys you see like I don't know <$C> It also depends on the character of somebody <$?> Can I tell you what the guy the woman by the way she'll be The women if given power they won't just come and rape you <$C> Yeah I It's <-/>It's <-/>It's <-/>It's because of culture But if it changes such that women are given now power I tell they will be on the street here they will be picking men like <$?> No But you see <$C> It's only that they're not as strong <$?> No but you see What is wrong with picking Listen There is nothing wrong with picking men What we are saying is big deal but the rape of a woman and the rape of a man are all different things You know why by the time this man is raped he morally has more or less succumbed You get because you see <$?> And a lady cannot rape a man by the way A lady cannot rape a man <$?> Yeah like in America It's like girls of our age have guns yeah <$?> People anywhere have guns <$?> In case you just try to do something she'll just shoot you She doesn't care <$?> said that what about a case where if people have guns then a woman can hold a man and unleash <-/>unleash <-/>unleash at gunpoint But honestly okay even the teacher said <$?> How <$?> At gunpoint okay I'm holding a gun to a man's head all right and I'm telling him to undress now it's definite that everything will shrink to use his words Let's face it one hand is holding a gun okay How will they do it <$A> I <./>tho <-/>I thought you were going to ask so that he can demonstrate <$?> I mean no I'm saying no I mean You've undressed So how are you am I going to rape you No you explain <$C> No you see now You see what happens now okay here is the gun okay somebody undress <$?> Yeah undress <$C> Yeah undress Now he throws away the gun and says he <$?> It's whatever it's a strong guy yeah S1A003K <$?> Yeah it will just be okay But a man <-_>a man<-/> <-_>a man<-/> a big man who knows what's going to happen to him at gunpoint You see that time you are in two different <-_situation><+_situations> Somebody is forcing you to do something that you can't in that case you will switch off But a kid There is no <-_>There is no<-/> way <$C> The same way The same thing <$?> There's no threat <-_>There's no threat<-/> No threat at all <$C> There are threats no There are threats <-_>There are threats<-/> Some <-/>some <-/>some of these kids <-_>Some of these kids<-/> are just carried by the maids na usiseme No it's true <$?> In fact can I tell you something that normally happens one for a maid to do such a thing it's like your sister you know it's someone they have gotten used to that is another point you have to take into account you see it's not ati a maid a neighbour there who comes and rapes a kid of this house all right <$C> Sometimes it happens anyway <$?> No but more often than not it doesn't happen It's the maid of the house You know by the time the maid is getting to do these things on the boy he may not even think it's wrong let me tell you okay because <$?> The kid is so excited <$C> Yaani and <-/>and <-/>and you rape some boy and she doesn't feel it's wrong <$?> The lady will feel it's wrong but the kid wouldn't know what's happening <$?> I'm not saying it's wrong but the kid will know what is happening because you can't <$C> Now No I'm taking a case whereby you know it's not just very small a boy like that maybe somebody like maybe standard four <$?> uh <$?> Even that is still a kid <$C> Yeah He's a still a kid He's still a kid but when somebody is in standard four like when I was in standard four that undressed like that so a boy like that one that one ni sawa now the maid gets in there <$?> Take a case where it's the maid who bathes the boy <$?> What if it's the maid who washes the boy <$C> The boy has faked an age whereby just wash yourself that time the maid gets in in that case is true <$?> Uh Let me tell you those ones happen to kids who are spoiled because the maid knows uh mazee this one I'm going to wash him <$?> Yeah And before a maid actually in such she must really know there is a maid in our place not really our house but in the estate This girl there were two boys in the house She used to fondle the two nyonyo you know fondle <-/>fondle and then the kids they didn't know it was just normal <$?> It was just normal until then <$?> Until one time the mother of those kids came in all right and then the woman comes in and <$?> About what age were they <$?> They were small six years old about eight years old So when she came in she is the one who caught her in the act okay and of course she noticed let me tell you those kids now when they were being asked you know is when they kept now saying by the way they spilled everything oh she does this and this oh in fact she could tell them and then where on her you know at she is feeling sick <$?> It's good they don't know what they are doing <$?> Yeah you see <$?> And let me tell you they had apparently had done that on and on and on so you see like that kind of maid she could even rape those kids ana do this Yeah it's rape but you see the kids were not bothered because they don't know <$C> Now me I had you know the issue of a maid when we talked about shrinking of a man when <$?> But if he is an adolescent or aspiring adolescent he <./>th those mechanisms might just you know <$?> go off <$A> go off or go on <$?> Oh At gunpoint you are there <$?> they at gunpoint lakini the treatment will be just like that of a kid <$C> They will go off at gunpoint <$?> But surprisingly enough even at gunpoint I hear they can still let them up <$?> Who told you this <$?> Some men <$?> Okay Uh Olivia just like you by the way it's like put yourself in that situation somebody <$?> Guys A rapist he will let it up because if his work is raping he might even have it up all the time really <$?> <$A> Who was Which topic was it you guys were discussing I mean <$?> Sexual harassment in the public and private sector <$?> But does it usually have to go so far to be sexual harassment Even that touching of you are just passing <$?> No just insisting on a date insisting on a date making phone calls and telling people weird things you know That is sexual harassment It's not really the By the way the physical could be very minimal What they actually do to her you know could be minimal but just what you suggest looking at her suggestively you know looking winking those things flirting with people That is all sexual harassment <$C> And it's so common <$?> So the teacher decided we are being taught especially the men in our class <$?> Yes they need to be told <$?> So that they do not go out there and do this <$?> and do the same <$C> Now they should tell both of them <$?> But let me tell you <$C> I think those mini-skirts is harassment also so it should <$?> But let me ask you Let me ask you where is it coming now in the city ama <$?> If you do not have self-control over yourself then it's your problem <$C> No <-/>no you The thing is you are harassed <$?> Let me ask you Why <-/>Why is it coming now In the sixties our mothers used to wear these skirts wait <-/>wait <$C> They used to harass the men then <$?> Wait No How come they were <./>no <./>no not raped then <$?> By the way morals as now <$C> No there were sexual harassment because you are saying this whatever is sexual harassment <$?> No look at our tradition People used to wear next to nothing even in South Africa they still wear that just small skirts and nothing <$C> So now okay now What is sexual harassment then <$?> You guys you have no self-control you see <$?> Yeah <$C> No self-control We have <$?> But I told you I put on that mini by the way they even go to an extent of tearing it you know that means you can't control yourself because what you are seeing is not you want to see something more than that <$?> If your eyes Yeah Yeah <$C> No Okay now Uh you see now <-/>now You are <-_>You are<-/> telling me about rape Us guys were talking about sexual harassment By the way what have you said what is sexual harassment <$?> It's It is It involves from touching commenting doing the real act without consent from the victim you know <$?> making passes at the victim without you know you are unwelcome but <$C> Now the <-/>the <-/>the psychological feeling of it <$?> That does not come in my dear Forget about psychological problems <$C> It is <$?> It isn't <$C> It is kama a phone call is psychological it is just something that you <$?> It is not psychological because you we talk Let me tell you <$?> It's physical <$C> It's one <$?> No It is by the way you could call me and say Hi my dear How are you That's it you could call me and tell me please can I have a date with you that is harassing me if saying hello to me how can you be <./>psycholo no <-/>no <-/>no That is not psychological <$C> Okay So what is psychological <$?> But you know Can I tell you something The psychological aspect of it you know the you in you as in you deal with it okay Now if you see a mini-skirt and straight away you think <-/>mhm straight away your mind your evil mind the animal instinct in you is taking control because you would like by the way you see more and to see what is beneath that skirt <$C> By the way No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No Now I disagree with you I disagree with you uh <$?> You see a lady in mini-skirt It's like you already classify that lady as an object That's an object and what's in the object is what you want <$C> No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No It's what you see <$?> That is what you get <$C> Yeah uh No <$?> Not what you want to see <$C> Now you've seen You've seen somebody uh somebody in a mini-skirt <$?> What you see is what you get <$C> So you guys are not giving me time uh You've <-/>You <-/>You <-/>You've seen a lady in a mini-skirt okay And you know of course we are mature personally you know already that one now you are harassing me because now I know what those ones are meant for you know <$?> What are they meant for <$?> Meant for what <$C> You see It's the husband who is supposed to see these thighs you know not just anybody else You know these my thighs my boobs are for the husband to see sasa If somebody else sees them then that is harassment <$?> Sammy Let me ask you a question Where guys and babes swim together is harassment there You tell me <$C> No <$?> Cause you see now everything by the way You see almost everything Why <$C> It's the <-_>It's the<-/> occasion <$?> Everything is an occasion <$?> No Someone can't wear a mini like that at daytime <$?> Can you tell me what is wrong with wearing a decent mini-skirt whatever to work official you look in fact they look very tough <$?> No I <-/>I know the minis that you have in mind I know the minis that you have in mind It's not the one I'm talking about <$?> I'm not having a mental mini here or here with thigh sticking out <$?> You look very decent <$C> Yeah Then Me That's harassment <$?> The one in a <$C> Now that one becomes a different case all the same They are different circumstances <$?> Okay leave alone that Okay <-/>okay just <-/>just <$C> Those are very different circumstances <$?> Okay If you insist Let me just correct <./>cor <-/>correct you If you insist people wear minis okay in the instances where an old grandmother woman who is eighty years old is raped by some psycho even her she was wearing mini Even her she was very provocative according to Sammy because that is what you are saying <$C> Because of what she is wearing <$?> And let me tell you does she look nice <$C> Even a kid who doesn't is raped <$?> You want to tell me that man saw those withered thighs she wore you see a granny is wearing something the withered thighs just provoked him to go and rape her <$C> That's why okay That's why I said it depends on the occasion and the situation that someone is in <$?> <./>Le Let's put it this way Sammy let me ask you Tell me <$?> That shows if you get so excited because of just seeing thighs that shows you have just adjusted your mind to the rape 'cause by the way you see those thighs are normal <$C> You know it becomes <-_>It becomes<-/> normal yeah <$?> You see in abroad how comes babe and you see <$C> It is with time It is with time No <-/>no There is nothing like that <$?> No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No <-/>No Let me tell you that is nothing <$C> That is nothing because they have been used to it They have been used to it <$?> You get 'cause <-/>'cause <$?> You have better get used to it <$C> No Yeah To get used to it now you have to change adjust to change <$?> How do we change you by wearing long skirts How do we change you by not wearing <$?> <-/>By <-/>By <-/>By <-/>By the time it changes because we will have raped enough people <$?> But let me ask you Okay <-/>Okay <-/>Okay That shows you guys are weak because <$C> Us guys are not used <$?> us guys <-/>us <-/>guys can see you in shorts and nothing happens It's normal S1A004K <$A> You know it is long since I saw Jackie When was the last time I saw Jackie That evening the evening of the There was so much then <$B> You people kwani what had you talked you know What had you talked with Jackie <$C> When <$B> That evening There was something I didn't know you people here discussed <$A> Uh <$C> Is it <$B> Why was Jackie insisting so much that I should come and pick you <$A> I thought he was supposed to be in that party <$B> Yes but it was abnormal I mean it was unlike Jackie to do such a thing to insist so much yaani mpaka started <$A> No but you see last time you disappointed us and so Jackie did not want this other uh function to go without our presence being felt She was simply being a good lady <$B> <-/>Aih Me I don't know lakini I was suspicious <$C> Is it <$B> Yeah even Peggy was suspicious Why can It's unlike Jackie to insist this much <$C> Who is Peggy <$B> Anne <$C> Oh okay <-/>okay <-/>okay <-/>okay <-/>okay <$B> You know we normally call her Peggy not Anne <$C> What is her full name <$B> Anne <$C> Anne who Anne <$B> <$C> Oh <$A> Peggy's short form <$B> No Peggy <$C> What does Peggy mean <$B> Si just a name <$C> So she's Anne Peggy <$B> No she I don't know It is her father who named her Peggy The way you can just love your daughter and just give her a name <$C> A nickname <$B> But there are people who I know are called Peggy <$C> Yeah that's why I'm wondering Okay like we're calling my boy Bobo and it's like everybody knows him by that name in fact nobody knows his real name and it just came up when he was a kid and he was doing bobo you know the way kids behave <-/>eh So could hers have originated from a similar source <$B> No maybe she was just a sweet little girl and the dad decided it's Peggy <$A> Uh <$B> <-/>mhm <$C> So Let's go back to Friday I hope <$B> No <-/>no <-/>no <-/>no We are not talking about Friday <$C>That is <-_>That is<-/> what I'm interested in <$B> We are not talking about Friday <$C> When we met Victor where were you guys <$B> Who's Victor <$C> The guy you sent <$B> Oh <./>tha that guy <$C> Yeah <$B> Outside your ninii your hall <$C> Where were you people going to Were you coming from somewhere or you were coming to our place <$B> Eh kwani are you interviewing me <$C> No I uh <$B> No you know you are we are talking to the to <-/>to inform you that the ninii the function will be at that on Friday night <-_>Friday night<-/> <$A> <-/>aha <$B> But now when we reached there we started discussing who should knock your door It is like nobody was willing so we decided we can as well send somebody <$A> Sure Uh I thought knocking a door was something quite <-/>quite easy <$B> No <./>i <./>a it was Jackie wanted to send me <$A> Uh <$B> And since you <-/>you <-/>you had talked to Jackie I wasn't seeing how she can send me after all I didn't know what you had discussed so I was telling her you <$C> She told you we had discussed <$B> Not really <$C> Okay you thought <$B> I mean I don't know where the conversation when the conversation <./>wh where you were talking from or I didn't know anything She just told me that Jwan wanted to know about the party <$A> Actually we asked her one time yeah <$B> So she wanted to send me and me I refused and her she didn't want to know <$C> Why did you refuse <$B> Because I didn't know about it very well She's the one who <$C> You didn't know about the party <$A> You didn't know that the <$B> No Your conversation <$A> But I thought the conversation was not important What was important was what was discussed and that was the party <$B> Why should she send me and she can go <$A> I mean anybody could go and see him <$C> I think there is something very hidden about <$B> What <$C> There is something very interesting that we need to know <$B> <./>Wha What <$C> You see 'cause you're saying that why How come Jackie insisted <$B> Yeah you see at the end of the day she kept on that one lunch see it was lunchtime she insisted very much that I should be the one to come up I refused then when we were coming from Soweto she again wanted to send me She didn't want to come up So me I refused That's why we came together <$A> I think uh what might have happened Jackie did not want to be part of uh any failure again <$B> <-/>Ah <$A> The other time it was you who was blamed for having uh not <$B> How was I blamed by the way <$C> Come in <$A> Yes <$D> Hi's <$C> Yes Joyce How are you <$D> I've looked for you mpaka uh I knew you were here <$A> How are you How have you been <$B> Karibu <$A> How is hall five <$D> Fine <$A> <-/>mhm <$C> Come on sit next to me here <$D> Oh You are doing some work Yeah <$C> No just sit <$A> We are just talking <$D> You are talking about something <$C> No <-/>no <-/>no Look at you <$B> By the way this thing is on <$C> How are you <$D> Si we are supposed to talk when akina Olivia are here <$C> How are you <$D> Not bad <-/>mhm <$C> Where have you looked for us <$A> Yeah they are coming You are from the hostel <$D> Eeh <$A> Okay <$D> Now I wanted to Could I borrow your deck we watch another tape and we bring it back <$C> At what timecan we take it at five Is that okay with you <$D> Fine <$C> About a quarter to five We've got a tape we would want to watch at that time to be exact Will you find that too late <$D> Yes I think it's okay <$B> When is she finishing that one <$C> I don't know You wanted it right away I mean right away <$D> Yeah ama she will mind <$C> I'm not sure <$D> There is another very good tape you've got <$A> What does it talk about <$D> Waiting to Exhale <$C> Waiting to <$D> Exhale <$C> Judy where are you going to <$B> I'm coming back <$C> Okay <$A> I hope you are going to check where Jackie is <$C> Please don't take long <$B> I won't <$C> All right <$B> Yeah <$C> <-/>aha <$C> Francis what do you think <$D> You guys wanted to watch uh a movie before the match <$A> No it is just that it is being watched <./>wh whatever is there is being watched now and uh it cannot go beyond five because at five shortly a <-/>a around ten minutes to five there will be that match which we have to watch So that means it will be occupied <$D> Okay <$A> Yeah <$D> Fine Wacha I check at that time <$A> Uh <$D> <-/>mhm <$C> Or it's going to be too late when is the nini supposed to be taken the <-/>the tape <$D> No it's in fact it's ours It's one of my <-_friend><+_friends> who is coming from home <$C> Okay And it's a thriller <$D> Well I don't know I know it's new film It's a new film so I don't know <$A> It's beautiful It has been <$D> It's rather poetic <$A> Okay <$C> I mean people <-/>people have been talking about which is this you said it is <$D> Waiting to Exhale <$C> Waiting to Exhale <$D> Exhale <$C> Exhale Okay Have a seat and <$A> How <-/>How is <-_>How is<-/> Madame Omolo <$D> She is okay <$A> <-/>mhm <$C> I'm sure you guys must be finding feeling so bad about the <-/>the <-/>the Bold <$D> Yeah <$C> Now that soccer has taken over <$D> It's dominating <$A> Yeah somehow we have to <-/>to <-/>to <$C> But I was really disappointed is it on <-/>on Friday You know the last time when it ended I thought well many of us thought that Mago had told Christine you know had revealed to Christine Did you watch <$D> Yeah <-/>yeah <-/>yeah <$C> On Sunday the other one <$D> Yeah <-/>yeah When he was imagining <$C> That's right Yeah and then immediately he fell down Christine came in Yeah So I thought people thought that at last today he has been caught but kumbe the lady didn't <$D> But by the way it was there on Friday The Bold <$C> Yeah I watched Yeah there was nothing kumbe she didn't tell Christine anything now that <$D> She hadn't She hadn't told she didn't tell her <$C> No <$A> So you managed to go to B <$C> Yeah I watched <$A> Okay <$C> I watched <$B> You went to B Jwan <$C> Yeah that time I went to B <$B> You didn't watch in your I make for you some tea <$C> Not now please You will make that later <$B> Okay <$C> You don't want us to stay for some time <$A> Oh yeah <-/>yeah <-/>yeah <$C> So How is your reception in your place now <$D> Just Not so good But imagine I noticed this other side is better 'cause another I gave another babe to watch another programme in the morning and it was very clear this side <$C> Yeah but I think that's what I told you the other time If you this side of akina where we are now <$D> Yes <$C> It's beautiful <$D> <-/>Ha <$C> It's very <-/>very clear The other side is not as clear as this other side <$D> Me I thought side wouldn't be clear because of the obstruction of the hostel and all that <$A+C> Oh <$A> Now this other side is closer to Timboroa than the other side <$D> Where is Timboroa Timboroa is this side <$A> Yeah <$C> It's <-/>It's more direct to Timboroa therefore the reception is <$A> This is a very powerful snap In fact it should be sent to those guys who make success cards <$B>Where is it <$A> It's very nice <$B> <-/>mhm I see <$A> Just as nice as this one <$B> Are you sure <$A> Yes <$B> That one is not nice <$A> So <$C> Okay <$B> I don't <-_>I don't<-/> like that one <$C> What <$B> The way you are looking at that one <$C> No I <-/>I want to revisit the Friday eh <$B> Uh no We are not going to talk about Friday now <$A> But so long as I will still be <$B> What <$A> We are talking about Friday <$C> I want to talk about Friday <$B> We are talking about what <$C> We are not through with I want to get to some interesting episode <$A> What was this lady's name <$B> Rama <$A> Ei is she a <./>M <-/>a Mhindi <$B> Real <$C> <./>Ra <$B> Ramakat Rael <$C> Rocket <$A> Ramakat Rael <$B> Ramakat <$A> Uh She was a Kale <$B> Which one by the way <$A> This one <$B> This one uh She's a Kale <$A> Sure <$B> Ramakat is a Kaleo <$A> Oh <-/>oh <-/>oh I knew she was a <-/>a Kyuk all this time <$B> Because she was walking with me <$D> Joyce <$C> I realized Mutuota has become very good with his books <$D> <-/>mhm <$C> Mutuota he must be a good guy You can hardly find lecturers who give students their books then all you need to do is record your name down you bring it back somebody picks it <$D> Yeah he's good Mutuota is not a bad guy He�s really good <$C> That is the book you are telling me he uses eh <$B> Yeah <$C> The one you're <-/>you're were returning that day <$E> What is it <$D> <-/>mhm <$A> Now I'm just wondering whether my guess is right <$B> For what <$A> Who is this <$B> My son <$A> No you can't give birth to your son of this age <$B> I mean kwani uh <$A> Even if you gave birth at five your son cannot be this old <$C> No <$B> And what is wrong with that <$A> No this is a man older than you You can only give birth to a son who is younger <$B> What do you think that is my bro and he's younger than me for your information <$A> Yeah but you see Somebody can be younger than you but not some <$D> This is campus <$B> Yeah <$C> Who is it <$D> Oh this is the bishop Uh uh Bishop Korir <$C> The bishop of Eldoret uh <$D> This is a campusserian <$B> uh the guy <$A> Come on Let's Let me see it <$A> Come on Let me see it <$B> No you are not seeing it <$A> Snaps are supposed to be seen surely <$B> You said <$C> But <-/>But it should be seen We have been waiting for you all this time <$E> Really I <-/>I It wasn't four <$A> Sure I like the way you keep time <$C> We are still waiting for the but just have a seat <$E> I <-/>I <-/>I have a headache <$C> Is it why <$E> the sun uko <$C> Oh when you sit in the sun <$E> I went to the bus stop and I think that is how <$A> You had seen somebody off <$E> <-/>mhm <$C> Okay Who are these lucky people who are seen off <$B> Jwan is very tall I wish I was that tall <$C> Who <-/>Who was this lucky person who is seen off on a Sunday afternoon <$E> My friend S1A005K <$C> Well here in hall four or hall five <$E> You know She's just worried I hear there is a nice system there There is a good system in the room anyway <$B> Who was telling it Mary Sheila's system was picked <$C> What about if you know the person whose key <$E> Mary Sheila's system was picked when I was there and do you know The last <-_>the last<-/> day That's when her ninii was picked <$A> She didn't lock her room <$?> She was not there She locked her door everything while she was not there <$B> She went somewhere <$A> She had gone visiting <$E> Well She was not there <$A> Or she had gone to clear the <-/>the semester in a big way <$E> Yeah maybe but all I know is she was not there I insist she was not there <$A> Yeah <$B> So somebody came with a master key <$E> I have no idea but someone picked that system And it went <$A> For all you know <$C> What about if you locked the person inside <$E> Lock which person inside <$C> If you lock the key <-_>the key<-/> the person with the key <$E> Yeah see the key that locks will just open <$C> Does it follow automatically <$B> Yeah <$E> We have this my the key for my former room was a master key it can open and close many rooms <$A> Sometimes <-/>Sometimes they open but they don't close <$C> This was the same problem with Florence <$B> She doesn't have the specs <$C> And she doesn't have the same hairstyle <$A> You know Florence has become so uh Seeing Flo in another hairstyle it would be very difficult to recognise <$B> It was You never used to know her <$C> The first time I saw her she was in this type of hairstyle <$?> Uh <$A> But I mean <./>th the one she has now <$E> I mean those days Judy you specialising in snap taking ama it is that psycho who took you those ones <$B> Which ones <$B> Oh yeah He is the one <$E> Okay whose birthday was this with many candles Ama these are <$B> My cousin's <$E> He was here yeah <$B> Yeah that's my cousin No this was my cousin That's her boyfriend Mzuri sana <$E> They are still he She Both of them are still here <$B> Uh uh <$E> Or he cleared <$B> The guy cleared That's my friend who made me stay here up to five or six thirty on <-/>on Friday <$A> Waiting for her <$B> Si talking <$B> You know this guy you know on Friday I didn't sleep the whole night <$C> Oh Okay <-/>okay <$A> Uh That was great <$C> Uh this is the padre <$E> He's a padre <$B> No he's not yet <$C> This <-/>this is the boy who was saying he is somewhere in Arusha <$B> Uh <$C> <-/>What uh What is he doing in Arusha <$A> Trying to be a priest <$B> He is in seminary <$C> Oh he is in a seminary <$B> Yeah the Jesuits <$C> Okay <$B> Yeah So they are brothers of Jesuits in Arusha <$C> Okay So he'll be there for how long <$B> Ten more years <$C> Ten more years <$A> What will be happening in the meantime <$B> <./>Li uh Like now si he has stuck for two years yeah two years I guess two years are over <$D> He was small <$?> Form two <$A> Yaani this idea came to you fairly late in life <$B> Uh uh he had joined and then he chucked to come to campus and then <$A> Do you stop doing that to come to campus <$?> No uh He had joined the seminary the training <$C> He had not finished <$B> He had not <./>fin In fact he was I guess second year <$C> Right <$B> Then he was called back <$C> Then he left to come to college <$B> Yeah Then after college he went back but a different congregation <$C> Why <$B> At that time he was a diocesan <$C> Yeah <$B> And uh now he's uh <-_>he's uh<-/> religious <$C> Okay <$B> That's very innocent <$C> So he's in Arusha for ten years <$B> But yeah he's after all he's After now he is <-_>he is<-/> taking his vows next week and then he will go to He will come by end of October <$C/$D> To do what <$B> Uh first round <$D> Jwan let me go and come you will here or <$C> I'll have gone back <$D> Five yeah <$C> Five <$D> Take note <$A> Can <$C> It is about twelve past four <$A> Can you pass my regards to a lady called <$D> Okay <$A> Yes and uh and <-/>and Edith also <$D> Fine <$A> Yeah <$C> All right See you then <$A> Let me ask you this lady who is she You know I saw her the other <$B> Ouma is a girl from <$C> uh <$B> Ouma <$C> Who is <-_>who is<-/> Ouma <$A> And is she a student here <$B> Me I don't know <$E> Let me see <$A> But she was very busy in the <-_>in the<-/> conference or she <$B> She's a student here I guess a second year Let me see <$A> Okay <$C> Kwani you don't know some of the students around here <$B> You <-/>you know You used to know everybody during your time <$B> This girl is a student the one in a bluish mini She's a student here <$A> Uh <$C> <-/>mhm <$B> I know she is <$E> <$B> <$B> Oh yeah <$E> <$E> Summit <$B> Yes <$A> Oh kwani O J is which one <$B>O J Summit This guy who feels good who twangs <$E> Hi ladies Hi girls <$C> Uh <$E> Hi girls uh Summit <$A> You mean the other one Okay <$C> So it's he <$E> uh Summit <$A> Oh that other one who is <$C> Where does he stay <$B> like in Lavingtone <$C> Here is Soweto <$A> Yeah when we were going kept on sending people for their whatever people kept on laughing <$B> Who's this <$A> He's a Mluhya boy <$B> <-/>mhm Nobala <$A> Not Nobala Nobala does not crack jokes This other one is just full of jokes <$C> You mean Nobala does not crack jokes <$A> Yeah <$B> Which one is this <$A> When we were coming back he sat in front He would talk and talk and talk In fact there was a time he was talking to some lady and the lady was firing him and he is very good he is usually good in giving the before you finish your sentence He has given one and the whole bus laughs <$B> I don't know because me I know that refugee guys are very boring <$C> Why <-/>why do you say that <$B> Si They're just boring They don't amuse me <$C> Why <$A> Sure You know <$B> Just like that They are flat <$C> They don't talk <$B> They talk but not the kind of talk <$E> This is at Ian's place Keino's place which uh <$B> Uh <-/>Uh <-/>Uh <$A> This is the one called O J ow <$E> Summit <$B> uh That is O <$C> The one who raps Who is he <$A> This one do I know him <$B> I know he acquired that twang when he came here <$E> <$B> <$A> But it's not a crime It's okay you can acquire and <$E> What was happening Oh that day of ordaining nanii <$B> Uh <$A> By the way this is the lady who is sick <$C> I've never <-/>never seen this <$B> Which one <$C> Oh this is the lady <$A> Yes <$C> She would have been a fourth year this year or a fifth year <$B> <$A> Fourth because she was in IS <$A> Uh <$C> You know her she's in fourth <$B> What are you asking me not really but she is <$C> What does she do with herself now She's not recovered <$C> She Speak up <$A> She does what <$B> Maybe she just stays at home I guess she's doing computers I'm not sure <$E> She will come back <$B> I don't know <$A> But I thought she was sick People who are sick can still do computers <$B> Si it's just normal stress <$C> But that's just Does it end when you leave this place Does it follow automatically that when you leave <$B> No it doesn't end but me I don't know what she is doing at home <$A> You mean she just decided to walk out <$B> No <$two women> She was sick <$E> She was going to sparko <$E> Isn't it the truth Okay How would you say it Those are my words <$B> That's so crude Olivia How can you describe <$E> But she's it's just like I can say that Mwangi is sparko He is sparko in the head that man the short photographer <$B> Let me ask you When you were here Mwangi was uh what year <$A> Mwangi was my classmate <$C> I don't know him <$B> Mwangi was your classmate <$C> I don't know him I never knew him <$A> Mwangi the photographer <$women together> Yeah <$A> He was my classmate not only year mate He was classmate <$C> Okay Why you why did you ask <$B> <$A> Uh <$E> But the guy he's sparko I am scared of him and he always grins at me you know <$B> But he grins at everybody <$E> Grins <$C> Not greets <$E> Initially listen Initially he used to talk he used to say hello to me I thought he was very kawa until You're looking nice you are looking nice the day of the party <$B> That day <-_>that day<-/> The day you were <-_>you were<-/> taking some snaps <$E> Of the snaps in fact he <-/>he insisted I took snaps with him He is the one who insisted I take the pictures so I thought uh kwani till later Jackie told me you know that man Mwangi is sparko I said uuwi and the way I was making noise at him uh he would have harakishad me <$B> By the way You I <-/>I don't know but now he still talking to us <$E> Then since then there even me since then I stopped talking to him but let me tell you he always has that <./>expenct expectant grin on his face <$B> You know that's how he is <$A> Does it mean that you don't like talking to people who are sick mentally <$E> No I was scared Why because he I had really I really made noise at him and so when the next time I saw him I didn't know but of course now I knew he is unwell okay I didn't know how to approach I just you know So since I had never known I decided the best thing is not to say hello and even him on that note he just looks at me he looks at me though a <-/grinnish> look you know uh Even he grins all the time Even the other some guy told me is that guy grinning at you or something I told him uh that is Mwangi I mean please it's okay I just didn't know how to react <$B> But I guess now he's quite normal It's only that he keeps on Maybe it's because of the tabs he took He's quite normal <$A> Have you listened to his story uh what <-/>what happened between him and a Maurice He was uh Maurice's cube-mate Nasser has not told you that Wow <-/>wow it was a scene and a half <$E> When he went to tell him to shut up <$A> You What happened they were staying in the same room Was it in G Then at that time he had just begun having those problems so Amori <-/>Amori <-/>Amori was to come back home some evening from and it's like the whole house was full of water you know It's like Mwangi has been trying to mop but he changed his mind in the process <$C> Okay <$A> So <$C> He wanted to mop and <./>th then he stopped <$A> Yeah he stopped uh all the same but you know like in NYS we used to say maji <$B> No stop that tabia <$E> No I You know why I <$B> Please do stop It's even necessary <$A> So Amori just told that was not good so he needs to stop he didn't stop at that Another time he would come and he would make noise and he used to come late I mean until a got worked up and told him to check his steps otherwise things were not going to be in his favour Now wait until that day he said today everything here is dirty and so there needs to be thorough cleaning So there was water all over the place on 's bed and you in G had problems all those beds So Amori was worked up Amori beat the boy and it was serious <$C> Amori beat the boy even though he was unwell <$A> That time Amori had not realised you know he was just a normal boy then his head went nuts Amori just beat him up and people came Then things just went bad and Mwangi had to leave but I don't think he picked uh litter as such <$B> Me I find him so well in fact I'm so happy that he doesn't talk to us <$C/$E > Why <$C> Why <$A> People who are unwell are not supposed to be talking to you <$?> He can disturb S1A006K <$B> <$E> Now who the hell is this <$B> My brother's friend <$A> How old was this lady <$B> Which lady Sarah <$A> Uh <$B> Sarah is now what <$B> Si it's this one <$B> She's twenty-one now <$C> Okay That is your sister or <$B> Cousin <$C> Oh Okay <$A> What was she catching here now uh <$B> By the way that was a party between her and her boyfriend only There were no people <$A> Sure Why <-/>Why were they that mean <$B> Uh si they just love each other and they thought that it was good <$C> They would have told some people to come and <$A> Now the boyfriend was taking snaps <$B> Uh they <$A> So at no time they ever took a snap <$C> It is not that part who will take you people a snap I think that is where <$B> Si you just <-/>just go out to the other room and ask somebody to take you <$C> Oh it is in college <$?> Not in college Where he works <$A> And then you tell that person about the first bus <$E> I like this father <$C> How is he <$B> Uh Which one <$C> Uh the short guy <$B> uh <$A> This <-/>This is I hope I'm not being taken to be another Mwangi <$C> The other Mwangi who is <$A> Yeah <$C>It's only you fear that <$A> Oh You mean you had even been evaluated <$E> What do you mean No It is hot <$A> Oh This was the day everybody was in red <$B> That was first year I see It's not That was first year <$A> This one <$B> Yeah Sarah Sarah by then she was a graduate so she decided to repeat the exercise again <$A> And this one What was her name <$B> Susan <$A> Susan <$A> She's so <-/>so quiet yeah <$B> Susan was not quiet gosh <-/>mhm <-/>mhm But she was a very nice lady You haven't seen her in <-/>in the snaps <$A> I have seen her in some of these snaps <-/>mhm That's good <$C> Which school were you in <$B> Why <$C> See I saw those snaps and you said you were in a party for the fourth formers or something <$B> No <$C> You said for <$B> A levellers <$C> Oh here <$A/$C> Have you ever been as round <$B> Pardon <$A> Have you ever been as round <$B> I was very thin <$C> When was this taken <$B> See here <$C> When <$B> I won't tell you <$A> This is uh what's his name <$E> Who <$B> Nobala <$A> Not Nobala This <$C> <$A> No <$E> Who's Nobala The other one <$A> Nobala is this one here <$E> Nobala But then Nobala is Luhya <$B> Yeah <$E> He doesn't look like a Luhya <$A> He's more of a Teso than a Luhya <$E> Yeah Even his characteristics <$C> A Teso <$E> He's <-/>mhm He's I don't know He's <-/>he's not <-/>he's <-/>he'd <-/>he's he <./>d does not behave Luhya for sure <$B> Luhyas are Kwani how do they behave <$E> That <-/>that is just what I think <$A> That's not an official <$E> Yeah It's just what I think <$A> Okay You stand to be corrected <$E> Yeah <$A> Good <$E> It's just the way someone could be uh like a Luhya but then you are like a uh they don't you know they don't that kind of thing <$B> Francis how do you behave <$C> Luos are usually loud-mouthed <$B> How do you behave Francis Yeah anyway Luos Kwanza girls gosh all girls it's only Nume and Debby <$E> Are you sure Millie and Dede are noisy in their own way <$B> The guys are They don't shout <$E> No In their own way <$B> Millie and Dede are not loud <$A> And who is Millie <$E> So you want to say we are loud <-/>loud loud <$C> Where do they stay <$B> But you were You Jackie and Tina gosh <$C> Who is Tina <$B> You don't know Tina you <$C> No <$A> Who are these <$E> You know Tina <$C> No Unless <$E> Slim and wears specs Her boyfriend is tall You <-/>You can always tell them by the difference Tall and short <$C> Oh Okay <-/>okay <$A> Who are these <$C> This one That one <$A> Is this the boyfriend <$C> No She's small and she wears specs <$E> The bald one is Marto and that is Yuckins <$C> She's short The obvious lady There only one Luo lady who is short here <$A> <-/>mhm <$B> Kwani you people <$C> The one I told you I found at place one time and <$A> Okay <-/>okay You are there <$C> I always see her with some tall young man around here <$A> Okay <$E> But it is that is Okay it's easier to describe him like that People click faster <$C> You know I told you that there was a time I was coming from the lib and it was like they were holding one another <$A> <-/>mhm <$C> There was a lot of love that transpired <$E> Ati badly What do you mean badly Nicely tight tighter than tight <$B> Wewe Olivia <$E> Wait uh <$A> You know badly that means Badly means yaani like that <$E> To death it's called Show me love <$?> It's called <$B> When you are held you are supposed to be loved <$E> No listen Show me love They are professing it in whichever way they want to It's okay <$A> There are many ways of killing a rat <$E> Yeah Uh I mean that is one of them Especially maybe they didn't actually think someone was watching <$A> He's also Luo <$E> <-/>mhm <$C> That guy <$E> He's Luhya <$A> See this is that lady <$E> But listen guys these you people let me tell you one They <./>d you know They describe people by that day that one that story that <$A> No for <-/>for this one This lady had a bad <-_>a bad<-/> whatever when we were together Besides her <-/>her sister was my classmate <$B> Francis let me ask you Anything you <-/>you see around these parts of Moi University or you hear or <./>y you are told you have to tell Jwan and it's bad <$C> No that's not true <$E> By the way they are all of them are like that We told Alex a very confidential story Alex tu to the boys <$A> I got that story from you Olivia <$E> Okay the boys <-_>the boys<-/> <$A> So it's wrong It's inaccurate to say that Alex told it to us be specific <$E> By the way you know If you really value that story as in if you hee Me I was so worried like by the way but the subject in question like I said before and I always say like I couldn't care less whether he got to know or he didn't It's okay In fact maybe it would do him a bit of good That is good <$A> This is your granny <$B> No That is a sister of my mum <$C> Why do you say that uh Why did you say that Judy that's <-/>that's bad <$B> Francis always tells you <$E> Let me loyalties It's just the way uh please It's <-/>it's uh I if someone uh <-/>someone uh uh it would be <./>w weird to tell Claire something and then tell her but don't tell Olivia anyway <$B> But maybe sometimes somebody <$E> Certain most of the things I don't think they are things I wouldn't know even if she doesn't tell me No Okay that what I'm saying very minimal but these other story <-/>story <-/>story <-/>story that way okay <$B> But imagine if somebody tells me I'm telling you something and please don't tell anybody <$E> Okay That is confidentiality which okay But what I'm saying is there are those moments of course there are those things you discuss the two of you and those are stories between the two of you But now when it comes to story like I saw so and so I met who in this and that you know such <$A> No there are some of these things are highly confidential <$E> Bu Yeah But some of these that's what I'm saying like now this one they are not that confidential <$B> But you see Francis unless I tell you this is a secret and don't tell anybody even Jwan You will always think that it's not very serious so you will go and tell anybody even Jwan <$A> No but you see <$C> Do have any <$A> You see what happens here is that there can be a time where a topic can arise and maybe you want to compare like and like But I'm just not going to come from the blues and oh Olivia was saying this and this We can't gossip like that That is tantamount to gossiping <$E> No it's just that You know That day Yeah You know why we said that In fact we remember after discussing that story so we said We told Alex uh haki I hope you are not going to tell your buddies because and we let me tell you what happened 'cause even them I'm sure they will say these girls Then anyway in the end we said anyway big deal because really that is not the case that's not how it happened And you know Alex told us ati uh how could I do that surely uh you know until I <-_lank><+_linked> up with Jwan and he was asking me you know he was and then he was asking me it's not bad but I just thought our mouths <$C> Oh it depends on what you discuss I know the story already <$E> Okay But that one was uh By the way that one In any case it's a story I had wanted we had just forgotten so that time we saw him like this we just remembered by the way you know even if it was not Alex we would have told any other person because that story we had decided surely we have to tell these boys You know <-/>mhm one at least we were burning with it but then we forgot uh <$A> This was good <$C> This was the day of the harambee <$B> harambee <$C> The last one or <$B> No that's kitambo Those are A-Levellers by the way <$C> Oh Okay <$B> I'm not sure <$C> Even this one is a long time one <$B> Which one <$E> By the way Irine went home <$B> Uh <$E> <$B> Nairobi you know <$A> I suspected Irine went home Not that we talked about it this time uh uh <$C> Who is Irine <$A> But your lights were on very late last night <$C> Oh Irine is your neighbour your roommate <$B> Uh <$E> <$C> I have a problem with memory I'm very very forgetful <$E> Na she was home the other day <$B> Si the other day <$C> Admission yeah <$E> Boyfie was admitted to the bar He's taking law <$C> Uh He finished <$E> <-/>mhm <$C> Okay <$B> By this time I guess she will <$C> I thought you told me she was saved <$E> She is saved <$B> uh Kwani saved people are not supposed to have boyfriends <$E> Even saved people have needs <$A> Basic needs Basic needs <$E> And do you know what the basic needs are <$B> Uh <$E> The physiological food shelter Security is not there <$C> Going to the toilet <$E> Security is not there And sex Physiological needs That is what your teacher told us And I'm not I'm very proud to say <$B> Gosh it is food <$E> Basic water uh basic needs <$C> Physiological needs <$E> The physiological needs Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs physiological We have water I mean food shelter clothing education nowadays plus <$A> Education is not physiological <$E> Okay No but some people Okay but <$B> But even sex is not basic Olivia <$C> It is very basic <$E> It's a physiological Listen It is a physiological need that is very basic <$C> It is a physiological need <$B> Yeah but you know <$A> You have to admit that fact <$E> And once it's a physiological need it is basic okay <$C> Physiological needs are basic <$B> You <-/>You are <-/>eh <$A> They have to be met first before the needs of the other levels are met <$B> No me I don't believe in that <$E> I'm telling you from a scholar's point of view <$B> Uh Yeah But because I have seen so many people who <$E> who abstain <$B> who postpone they don't have <$E> They postpone or they abstain <$B> They postpone that <$A> You know it's just that sex is done in a private place usually But food people eat food in hotels <$E> Yeah and anywhere else you know <$B> Yeah <$C> You know how you feel when you're thirsty <$B> Uh <$C> You know just <-/>just answer my question When you <-/>you feel thirsty you need water <$B> No Let's continue in this particular <$C> Do you know what you feel That is exactly what it is Those are the <./>physio physiological needs When you hungry you are starving <$A> You know like You know a physiological need now from psychological point of view is that one which you must satisfy in order to acquire another one <$A/$E> to move to the next the next yeah <$B> But <-/>but you can acquire others before you satisfy sexual <$C> A physiological need No <$E> sexual Yeah you can You can <-_>You can<-/> S1A007K <$A> The first person who speaks will be person A That is uh uh which who <-/>who is me uh and I'm a student <$B>> Are we putting an A I mean <$A> yeah So uh <./>tha <./>tha that was the saga you were telling me about the evening And then what happened yeah you told me <$C> The crisis of government department <$A> Oh okay <-/>okay yeah that <-/>that was the problem uh <$D> Yeah that was the problem <$A> Yeah sawa So uh I was telling you uh when we left uh <-_>when we left<-/> that uh Kenyan Ugandan students discussion uh I was giving somebody a <-/>a push down to <-/>to her hall <-/>hall twelve Now uh this babe doesn't know <-_this><+_these> sides yeah si ndio And then uh I told her so you follow like this First she <-/>she <-/>she saw a dead rat yeah and then she <$?> Where was that <$A> she screamed just outside hall five outside near the booth She screamed and I asked her Hey what's the problem So we went down mpaka between hall six and hall seven si you know there is a penya where you just squeeze <$C> Hall six and seven <$A> Yeah <$D> Yeah yeah there is a <$B> That route which we used to <$D> The route <$A> that kiroute over there So I was taking her through there and then we come out into that AGD field yeah That field that faces it between hall <-/>hall six seven and eight and AGD And then we go through AGD and then she drops <$D> Okay that bushy field <$?> basi <$?> Okay <$A> Now see you fika there I told her we go right And then she's like uh wait a minute bwana where you uh where are you taking me And I was like uh I mean you don't trust me and I anyway I mean I was hurt honestly speaking 'cause I mean where <-/>where did she <-_>where did she<-/> think I was taking her and to do what with her honestly <$B> Okay <$A> Yeah uh okay I understand her sentiments but uh uh please I <-/>I mean trust is just the best thing <$D> Okay just a minute <$B> For how long have you known the <-/>the lady <$A> No <-/>no not that I really know her so much <-_>so much<-/> I mean we are <-_>we are<-/> classmates we <-/>we were classmates and uh we are acquaintances so uh <$B> You didn't expect such a reaction <$A> I was it was a little bit too much for me as you know Would I <-_>Would I<-/> <-_>Would I<-/> Okay to some extent she was right in that uh <-_>in that<-/> uh you have to find out where you know uh where somebody is taking you but on my side I mean it was hurting bwana I mean if you just don't trust me 'cause she <-/>she actually was waiting for <$D> Yeah <$A> Now she was like uh Why <-/>why don't we go down together until the willow has disappeared Now she had gone So she was like see you give me a push I <-/>I <-/>I <-/>I have no problem So in the process of giving her a push on the way didn't trust me I was so disappointed Anyway that's life Those things do happen <$D> In fact I was <-_>I was<-/> about to tell you that today I closed a file uh uh Oscar told me to postpone this story till now uh There are other crises <$?> <$D> I have not told you while I was waiting for you <$B> Which story is that <$D> I <-/>I can say I have made two major decisions in my life for the past three <-/>three <-/>three days These three days that have <-/past> I made two major decisions Booting friends You have the wish to keep them but your <-/>your mind stroke brain wants to boot them because they are kind of infringing <$B> Your principles <$D> Yes exactly <$A> <./>Whe <./>Whe When they do uh uh you will just have to but you take a choice you know <$D> What can you do for example let me <-_>let me<-/> give you a very practical example It's like this You give somebody your notes personal notes Then you tell her please bring these notes tomorrow morning She brings them in the evening Then what happens is this once she brings them in the evening you ask her what happened She tells you that I had not finished with your notes Is that a <./>jus <-_>is that a<-/> very good reason for not returning your notes Then what happens is this when I go for a Kiswahili lecture and then I bounce a <-/>a philosophy lecture I come and tell her Can you <./>Ca <-_>Can you<-/> give me your notes so that I can go and copy in fact it was the lecture about the end of a human act Then she says No Reason She gives no reason Then today I told her very early in the morning that that time you were telling me that you <-/>you will have that There was some reading going on here <$B> Okay I <-/>I know the <-/>the <-/>the <-/>the situation I decided to keep away <$A> You <-/>You read between the lines yeah <$B> Yeah <$A> <$D> He had to do because I <-/>I called her and then I told her that I want to talk to you but Yeah <./>let let's talk Uh Therefore I told her like this <$B> And then you received her <$D> Very simply it's like this You requested my notes I got angry when I got your message that you had written that I promised you that I'll give you my notes That was not true because I did not promise you I just said probably I'll bring my notes tomorrow meaning on Friday evening Then I said Okay that's it We <-/>We went and then I also added that uh <-/>that is what I said therefore your promise according to the philosophy of language a promise it means a lot it means a lot There is a difference between promise and probability Therefore I said okay that's what I said Therefore you are wrong on that in <-/>in writing that message in fact Therefore I said <$B> You <-/>you didn't promise her <$D> I didn't promise Therefore I still I <-/>I asked her do you still want the notes Yes But I <-/>I <-/>I love to make you remember two incidents that happened in second year And you'll tell me whether or not I'm just finally giving you my notes <$B> Okay <$D> Then I started Okay one time I gave you my Mazrui notes in fact I had mentioned that thing in class on Thursday And I said okay I'll give you my notes What happened how <-/>how long did I stay with your notes I told her that uh you stayed with my notes for more than eight hours and each and every minute means a lot to me What was the end of the first incident Then the second one I told her about those uh notes she refused to give Said that I can't remember You know what I told her I'm very sorry I don't like this but I'm very sorry to have such a memorable mind I <-/>I just I don't I just don't want you to remember things It's very unfortunate but I have a very vivid memory <$A> You mean clear memory <$D> Yeah A clear memory not a vivid one And then I said okay that's it <$B> That's the first uh one of the major decisions <$D> Yeah And then she took off hungrily <$A> And there <-/>there goes a friend but anyway you know what uh at the end of the day I was telling this guy Me I believe if you've done the right thing it's <-/>it's okay because if that's the kind of a friend she is where <./>every everything just rotates around and about her her interest then uh you are better off relegate her to an acquaintance <$B> Surely <$D> Sure <$A> And that's <-_>and that's<-/> as much as it stands right now because if she comes back to gus with you I mean I don't think you <-/>you would refuse her but still you'll you <-/>you'll <-/>you'll have established your limits you have established what kind of a person she is and uh that's the most important thing <$B> And I think this a major I <-/>I may presuppose that this a major tendency that uh most of our ladies here uh uh are fond of <-/>of <-/>of <-/>of <-/>of acquiring some sort of or <-/>or using <$C> You see they <-/>they <-/>they <-/>they are not out to assist you In most cases you find it that it's a one way kind of traffic kind of relationship uh She She's not <$A> But that's the society Everyone is just opportunistic you know <$D> Why <$C> Where <-/>Where can we place the blame now Because for one thing they have been fighting for equality and with this equality that they are fighting for me I believe that you first have to <-/>to level the ground and make sure that everything is at par such that whatever she gets if she gets fifty I also get fifty And it should be what we've all worked for individually <$A> But you see there's <-/>there's this question yeah somebody was posing uh the Kenyan the <-/>the <-/>the Nairobian lady I mean we are working in the accounts department She earns as much as I do And she has the audacity to come and tell me Hi Oscar Hi How are you nzuri Take me out You know I mean We <./>ear uh We earn the same yeah Buy me lunch Let's go for Take me for a movie Please I mean it's not like I have any extra shillings above what she has yeah But they're always on the receiving end even when their salaries are the same you know they are getting the same and the same <-_>the same<-/> allowance or you know uh <$?> e t c <$A> I'm just a Kenyan anyway <$C> The problem is this they claim that One they have a lot of things which cannot be met by their salary Secondly they say that it's better they <-/>they utilise our money instead of us taking that money to a bar You see such kind of bizarre reasons <$A> But you see <-_>you see<-/> yeah They always try to make it uh their <-/>their us-conscience you know ati conscience for us in <-/>in saying that rather than you go to the bar and <-/>and waste your money down there and you know you <-/>you stand a risk of let's say getting drunk being mugged and you know so instead of like even saying you bring your you put your money to something that's useful that's gonna <-/>gonna come back to you <-/>you spend it on them that's a better investment you know <$D> You know that therefore <-/>therefore you cannot say that this <-/>this gender equality thing I don't think it can work in anywhere in this world What we can have is gender equity There is no way she can come and claim that <-/>that to spend my <./>mo your money on me that is a better investment it <-/>it <-/>it means implicitly that she's <-/>she's like just starting a business You invest too much in her <$B> And given the fact that some of them have been letting many guys uh down <$D> Yeah <$B> You might even invest the way they <-/>they take it to be And finally she <-/>she <-/>she gets married to someone else So you <-/>you end up losing <$A> By the way By the way that's <-/>that's <-/>that's normally how it is yeah I've come to realise they quite know You find ati ati I'm pushing with a certain lady We've gone out for a couple of years by the way This time me I am going out with her like let's say tonight we in <-/>in a movie theatre Tomorrow I buy her lunch we walk in place and feeling many times there's another guy much older than me He's buddy busy reading a accounts or reading you know law he's <-/>he's <-/>he's finalising his profession Ama he's busy now just entering into the profession ama you know in his career He's setting And then once he get the he gets the economical you know the <-/>the financial standing Now you just come and her off from here and you know she goes and You can imagine how when you backtracked with this date And I was still shining with her and you know and someone was <./>re busy making you know colours for her and uh <$C> I think we have a Somehow we have committed a fallacy We cannot generalise the talk because there is this thing called love Money can't <./>b <-/>can't buy me love <$A> Yeah but it's true but in <-/>in <-/>in the sense that she might not take the money because of <$C> love S1A008K <$C> Do you <-_>do you<-/> imply <-_>Do you imply<-/> that relationships nowadays are structured on economic grounds <$B> No Not wholly We don't want to make generalisations We are taking <$A> I didn't say that I said however much the relationships may not necessarily so much so be because of the economic bit of it it could be love but still the fact is the babe I'm pushing with today chances of me marrying her are not a<./>re not so high Okay probably for the age yes but you know those that teenage thing it's normally just popular you know You start Hey this is my babe Shortly you change to somebody else and then somebody else You know <$B> And me if <-/>if such a thing would happen to me I don't abstain totally <$A> It's so natural why not It's just like you and then you came to <$D> abstain from what Opela <$B> From making friends <$A> No <-/>no I mean it's so healthy to it's there is no problem The only <-_>The onl<-/>y fact is it's <-/>it's a reality like <-/>like okay I've had a girlfriend Now the relationship is over I mean when <-/>when <-/>when we are the guys believe you me I'll tell you uh Us guys are getting married getting married you know We are into the real thing you know And things happen you realise Oh okay The marriage was postponed or rather put off <$?> Indefinitely <$B> Uh In this case what <-/>what can you do You just indulge but you make sure that you don't indulge so much But the problem <$A> No you make You make friends you make uh You actually uh I personally I believe it's healthy I mean you learn so much So that when you have the <-/>the person you're really you know uh serious with you'll not be making some funny <-/>funny errors <$D> In fact that was what I <$C> I'm not a person who makes trials and errors You make a trial and it's the thing the real thing You are very serious about it And you play your part even if the part is not played by the other party Then it's not a mistake <$B> This is why I'm saying that there is a problem We <-/>We don't know where to draw the line between uh the <-/>the real the <-/>the <-_>the real<-/> Okay if I may use the term courtship this discussion <$D> Yeah <$B> If we can't draw that line it <-/>it is difficult to draw it and <-/>and maybe to identify someone who is not wholly committed If it's the man he might be cheating the lady that oh you know whereby you are the one and <-/>and you are mean a lot to me and <-/>and such like sweet nothings if I may say so If it's the <-_>If it's the<-/> lady she might also put all the <-_>all the<-/> all those kinds of words whenever they meet one another But finally one of them is going to disappoint the other yeah There's a problem you can you can't <-_>you can't<-/> tell who is cheating and who is giving true love <$D> Therefore you've identified the problem <$B> You can't Okay this is what I'm trying to get from you I'm saying that it's hard for me to draw that line so what can you do <$D> Between a problem and a solution or between problems <$B> Okay it is between uh uh Maybe you did not get me clearly or maybe I'm not the one who is getting you clearly I'm saying it's very difficult to draw a line between the one who is uh giving true love and one who is cheating the other <$A> You are right Because me honestly speaking okay some relationships me I look at them like this uh I just wonder I mean uh is it for conveniences purposes or is it for the <-_>for the<-/> fact that we are in this age so in this age people normally have girlfriends so even me I have one some just don't think serious you know Okay some look serious but you can just see that honestly is isn't it they are you know like uh skewed you know it's <-/bended> on one side and you know someone is I don't know <$D> But on this line I think I can support ladies because most people who are serious about relationships courtships they are ladies Guys are never serious <$C> Can you <-_>Can you<-/> substantiate <$D> I have a lot of friends who tell me how they can probably uh This lady she's <-/>she's just there for a short short-term basis and then I <-/>I know <-_>I know<-/> the person I will marry Not this kind She's just here to I don't know The guy is biding his time Therefore but for ladies you approach a lady and ask her How do you think about your guy She'll tell you that <-/>that is the guy of my dreams probably imagining getting one of his sons or daughters They think very far But for guys I'm telling you they just see someone very close either just for marriage <$A> <$D> I I'm saying most guys not all guys I'm making myself clear Most guys And most people who are serious I repeat once again are ladies about relationships Though if you find some who are not serious that is ladies then just regret why you fell in love in the first place Because they can torment you uh <$A> 'Till all hell breaks loose <$D> Otherwise we'll have to wait and see Experience is <$B> the best teacher <$D> Yes <$?> best lecturer <$D> the best lecturer <$B> I think there's this thing we wanted to talk about What happens when a person dies <$A> uh see I saw <-_>I saw<-/> you in the <-_>in the<-/> student centre You came briefly and disappeared <$B> Yeah <$A> What was not happening <$B> What <-/>What <-/>What I expected was not happening <$A> What did you expect <$B> I expected <$A> What did you get <$B> Yeah surely and uh <-/>and uh in this situation I thought that uh maybe it was supposed to be a meeting between those uh visitors from Makerere University <$A> they meant it to be a <-/>a meeting uh and then <$B> between Makerere students and uh <-/>and officials or <-/>or members <$A> Okay <$B> So and I went there and found out okay it was some kind of a <-/>a just a general discussion okay involving uh students from all <-/>all <-/>all <-/>all units uh I mean all courses and all associations within the university So I was not expecting that and <-/>and therefore I paused for a for some time and tried to listen what they were discussing about and I could not catch up with it and I just left again <$A> Uh we were <-_>we were<-/> discussing pan-Africanism <./>Wha What do you think of pan-Africanism <$D> On pan-Africanism I can talk a lot courtesy of <$A> Generally <$D> Professor Ali Mazrui I know <$A> Shortly Briefly <$D> Very briefly pan-Africanism should I say at initially it was a Negro movement but nowadays it's a movement of governments in Africa in the Caribbean <$A> Okay a movement of governments but <./>wha what are <-_>what are<-/> you going to boil down is that does pan-Africanism really exist truly speaking <$D> You know it depends from which school of thought you are arguing from If you are a Eurocentric definitely you will say that this thing is a myth If you are Afrocentric you will say it's a reality Do you know why even these scholars we think that they <-/>they They have some kind of bias whereby if from a Eurocentric perspective you cannot argue that pan-Africanism is a reality Mazrui argues from an Afrocentric and says it is a reality and we have five types of pan-Africanism and goes out to <-/>to delineate <-_this><+_these> kinds of pan-Africanisms whereby we have this <./>sub uh sub-Saharan pan-Africanism about the black country scene black Africa the so-called sub-Saharan Africa We have this other one which links us with these people who are uh Arabs <$B> The <./>no <-/>the northern <$D> Yeah the northerners by arguing that though there is the Sahara desert in between <$?> <$D> Yeah the this <./>bri this Sahara desert is more of a bridge than a death trap When you go to the <./>Cari Caribbean islands we find that there is this <./>west western-hemispheric pan-Africanism whereby we have uh these people coming together having uh unions that can uh cater for their welfare because of being <./>ensel enslaved together <$B> That is <./>whi which region <$D> The western-hemispheric region Caribbean islands and that kind of things Then we have this kind of transatlantic pan-Africanism whereby the black Americans or the so-called African-Americans nowadays link up with <-_this><+_these> sub-Saharan and <./>transatlan <./>tran trans-Saharan pan-Africanists and argue that uh we are all blacks We've been through hard times together These governments have been very rough to for us And then the whole thing is encompassed in the global pan-Africanism And that is what I think Oscar is asking about And therefore it <-/>it all depends from where you are arguing <$B> School of thought <$D> Yeah <$A>But how is the consciousness Pan-Africanism viewed as <-_a> consciousness was a was more or less a psychic spiritual thing you know You are conscious of uh your values as <-/>as <-/>as <-/>as blacks you know as uh <-/>as you try to bring that unity amongst you a unifying factor which is a uh being from Africa being black and uh having finished you know marginalisation in terms of economic and uh political stress from <-/>from the outside world yeah Just how much Just how much of that is in <-_>is in the<-/> <-_>is in the<-/> common man today <$D> One problem is that in Africa especially Africa <./>sou sub-Saharan Africa we have a problem with culture You know culture is a very simple word that people just pass by But if you sit down and analyse what culture is all about you come to realise that in sub-Saharan Africa we have a cultural crisis identity crisis whereby people disrespect their culture And this is unheard of <-_>unheard of<-/> in any part of world People are very very uh serious about their culture But in Africa we have a problem People don't want to identify with their so-called traditional beliefs simply because they've been told <./>the these beliefs are primitive uncivilised barbaric You name them Therefore without first of all sitting down and reconstructing what was destroyed by colonialism and its predecessor uh slavery and such kind of things or its successor neo-colonialism right now I don't think we are going anywhere This is a problem that faced African countries on the eve of independence Instead of these leaders sitting down and discussing how to reconstruct this culture that has been that had been at least destroyed by all those years of colonialism they embarked on trying to achieve economic dreams for example industrialisation without taking into consideration that these people have to be sensitised that they are black They have to be sensitised that they have a common cause with the other blacks in all those spheres Mazrui observes We just have to sit down and we say okay Minister of Finance do something about the budget Do something about this Therefore there is no way people can be conscious of pan-Africanism and yet we do not do something about our culture And that is why it doesn't have a a lot of adherents in Africa <$B> And just to add on what you are talking about maybe if I <-/>I may go to <-/>to the grass-root level that even to identify ourselves uh with our own nation-state has been a problem in some of the African states such that uh there is this factor that has been hindering this <-/>this consciousness at the larger level of I mean <./>pan-Akr pan-Africanism at <-/>at that <-_>at that<-/> level because one thing ethnicity is a major factor People do identify themselves in most cases with their ethnic groups and <-/>and the ethnic origins rather than with their own nation as a whole first of all I mean nation-state And uh <-/>and it's from this level <./>where whereby we uh <-/>we might come together and uh okay As a result of this <-/conscienceness> we might come together and uh <-/>and uh be unified as blacks within Africa or blacks within the <./>eth ethnic continental level So ethnicity is a major hindrance <$D> Okay <$?> Okay we <$D> What were they discussing there <$A> Somebody presented a paper so-called a paper She talked about pan-Africanism Then <$B> Was she from <-/>from here <$A> From Uganda Then uh the reactions from the floor where people criticised people added people refuted and uh basically that was it One thing is that at the end of my view was like I was really just wondering just how much pan-Africanists are we S1A009K <$A> You know there are things like we wouldn't we would yeah <-_>we wouldn't<-/> uh you wouldn't take your grandpa to <-/>to <-/>to a grandfather uh grandparents' home That <-/>That concept hasn't quite dawned on African society And when they come visiting they'd still be treated with you know that kind of respect you know that that's the thing that's in uh that that's not physical culture as such But what remains like when you just look around Okay physical or uh uh the non-physical culture There's so much of it exists even like in this hall <-_>this hall<-/> of ours If you just take each and every individual and you can quantify that okay he has this measure of culture our traditional culture in him still Just what you know What percentage of uh the population in let's say the students in this hall would <-/>would come up where they still hold our culture dearly and I mean from the onset you just look at it it looks like it's fast eroding It's eroding pretty fast <$B> Very fast in fact even the percentage is really insignificant You can't <$A> Okay probably that that's <-/>that's uh regional uh But that as much as we are here we never see any of that But then when you do start travelling around you definitely see those huts <./>gra grass-thatched roofs you know and that's physical culture you see And then uh very many other things but you'd agree with me that in the first place yeah so much of it has been lost where like you <-/>you <-/>you <-/>you uh think about when uh some communities would go to the shrine to worship uh a certain traditional god You know when <-/>when <-/>when uh probably some <-/>some <-/>some cultures still hold it in that for them when someone dies there's just so much you know uh <-_>there's so much<-/> <-_>there's so much<-/> don't dos and dos that have to you know go about with the funeral but still at the end of the day they <-/>they <-/>they have changed yeah There's some dynamism in it It probably isn't what it used to be you know like for the Luo when they say they <-/>they really cherish funerals yeah but probably it's not what it used to be exactly you know taken back to three generations uh I think <$B> It it's quite different in a way <$A> I think it uh funerals used to be something Well we can't blame anybody when there's a <-_>there's a<-/> strong influence from another culture what <-/>what would you expect Or what do you guys think <$D> What I think about this whole affair of culture is that we're the problem In fact it's identified by Professor that when these people came they came with their own culture And the African culture was supplanted by this foreign culture And in order I think in order to try to re-establish what was in fact my <./>obje my prime objection is we miss immaterial culture erosion Not material culture as such Material culture has nothing to do with it What is immaterial is always more important because it reflects how you think how you respect people how you obey them such kind of things the <-/>the way you dress There is no problem with this European dress The problem is how we and when we wear these things because the <$?> <$D> Yeah For example mini-skirts It was in the immaterial culture of the Africans most Africans that a lady should not display her thighs The European brought a long dress and a short one Now where is the problem If she wears the long dress she will have betrayed the material culture of wearing skins When she wears the short one she betrays both you see the material and immaterial culture This is where the problem lies <$A> Okay like now uh there's this <-_>there's this<-/> thing about wife inheritance In light of what you know would you <-_>would you<-/> like uphold such a culture <$C> There is no problem with wife inheritance <$D> In fact I was at Mary's place <$B> Okay <$D> and I had to run away from that discussion because it was Mary and another guy called They introduced that wife inheritance And I was quiet for around seven minutes listening to them <$B> That's a very long time <$D> because there was one day this the Philosophical Students' Association held this debate about and presented a paper yes And then we discussed that paper for around two hours and said this so-called wife inheritance is a connotation from a Eurocentric point of view What we have is a companionship He used very good words <$B> to refer to that practice <$A> I <-/>I <-/>I think that is clothing quinine in sugar <$D> We have uh Yeah <$A> <$D> Therefore he said it's <-/>it's wife guardianship family guardianship a lot of terms <$A> I think <-_>I think<-/> okay did he specify what <-/>what the so-called quote unquote wife inheritance implies <$D> The whole affair Briefly he said it like this A wife who is a widow uh may decide whether or not even according to the Luo traditional customs whether or not she will be inherited quote unquote And if she decides she will be inherited she decides among the brothers of the clan she is in You know he was arguing for <$?> <$B> I think no I think what <-/>what it should be or what it used to be is this that it was <-/>it <-/>was like this When <-/>When the husband died the widow had no choice other than being inherited because for one thing she was regarded yeah she was regarded as the property I mean as <-/>as the member a member of that family you see In fact he was married to <$A> even when <-_>even when<-/> he is alive The minute you get married in the African culture or rather in the <-_>in the<-/> Euro-culture we became part and parcel of the family where the man comes from <$D> That is true That is what Mr said <$B> Yeah he said so <$A> To an <./>e <-_>To an<-/> extent that when you die you cannot be buried by your dad You're buried by your in-laws Yes to the extent that when he dies someone has to Okay there <-/>there <-/>there are virtues that went with it This guy who inherited you was there to take over the roles of the brother providing for you you know uh taking care of you and his children And in any case fulfilling each and every role that goes with it <$C> Yeah that is what I understand I can remember very well <$A> But you see at the end of the day I He defended guardianship or what calling it wife inheritance is not a really Because after all uh what is inheritance When my dad dies I take over his empire yeah And it's a business empire for manufacturing textiles I take over and I'm the boss now I'm the man <$D> Yeah <$A> And uh from henceforth the decisions that have are made for by me In other words I run the company So by me inheritance inherits the wife he assumes each and every role so to speak <$C> Yes <$A> And provide for the children and give advice Well you know after all your my wife <$D> Yeah I remember that that discussion took two hours and when we were standing with Mr outside there in that corner then we discussed for another two hours The questions are these In fact Mary was asking is a Luo <$?> Uh <$D> A <$A> Oh Mary Mary is a Luo uh <$D> Yeah Does the present situation in the country call for such kind of customs to be continually you know practised by these uh You know the society has changed She was arguing the society has changed Therefore Does the present economic situation justify such a condition if at all the wife is in a position to sustain her family <$?> Uh <$D> React to that <$A> What I would say is I mean you don't need we don't need the economic conditions as such to make us lose that one Supposing uh she was able to or supposing she was not able to Don't you think like the thought today's thought process who do you marry you marry I marry someone I love <$C> Yes that's true <$A> You marry <-_>you marr<-/>y someone you love to the extent that your dad would tell you marry Jane You go and get your Anne wherever you fished her from Whatever is in her that made you like her whatever is in you that made her like you it's all up to the two of you it's mutual That's what matters You get married Now your younger brother here gets married to so and so Okay Yeah Now your younger brother's wife dies So would you inherit her even if it's not the economic factor With today's kind of reasoning and uh viewpoint towards First of all if uh <-/>if you are for it then you'd be much so a <./>pro or <-/>a potential polygamist to be able to think of having two wives yeah And then for me to think of taking my younger brother's uh wife to the full extent I mean we can help her that one is for sure I mean she's part of family Yeah if she really cannot economically we can chip in economically and help economically But not to the extent of bringing her to my house or you know integrating her into my blood family and You see <$D> Yeah I understand <$A> It's also a matter of if <-/>if <-/>if you're marrying because I think before you you'd actually even know your <-/>your bride on the last day as in far taking it very much behind <$?> According to the African tradition <$A> You <./>nev <-/>you never used to choose as such The ladies never did have a choice as such You are just being told uh you come from a <-/>a family that is well known to be you know doctors There's another family there who are doctors as well or blacksmiths and blacksmiths and you know It will be done for you like I know he's got a very good son It's a reputable family and we'd like to have association with and you <./>ha <-/>you have no choice You see at that time the individual wasn't really prepared <$B> <$A> It was a social thing so that even if you <-_>if you<-/> You see first of all your wife was brought to you So if you are brought for another one then who cares you go out and choose And you say I just cannot have a relationship with Anne because she is x y z I can have with so and so because I like this thing about her I like this personality about her I love her You know Then when someone pours off another <-/>another lady to your side to <-/>to call your wife you wouldn't accept it whether it's economical also or not you see You get my point <$D> Yeah we understand you <$C> You can Can you this yeah How about in a situation whereby somebody plans the death of this husband eyes the wife and conspires <$A> You see okay <$D> Nowadays <$C> I don't care about nowadays <$A> However good the <-/>the wife inheritance thing was as per <$D> Those days <$A> This <-/>This guy who you were talking to <$C> Okay <$A> One thing is for sure that it had its negative effects I mean what is if my <-_>if m<-/>y brother has married a <-/>a cute wife <$D> <$A> uh wouldn't I wish for his death You <-/>You wouldn't be surprised <$B> You can't avoid it Even if you suppress it that is still there in <-/>in you that at least you <-/>you <-/>you have that feeling that you <$A> <./>Wa You wait till he dies you know You'd be so willing to take over <$D> But do you know <./>the there is a lot of responsibility that goes with this so-called wife inheritance let uh <-/>let alone the role You know there is only one role people think about <$A> There there's so much There's so much <$D> How about the <-/>the other things I think I can show her from <$B> This is <-_>This is<-/> why <$C> Because of other responsibilities <$A> But you see Okay you might shy away but shy away but one thing is for sure like as we were saying if it was mandatory it's another thing <$D> obligatory <$A> Yeah and after all she's tired <$D> Opela tell us something <$B> I think what <-/>what maybe was implying and maybe what I should hold as my own personal views is this that this thing <-/>this uh <-/>this issue when <-/>when somebody's husband is dead then the decision should be left for <-/>for <-/>for the woman to make S1A010K <$A> And how much did they go for <$B> I don't know <$A> It's a present you're given by someone or something <$C> <$A> Why uh Do you know I hadn't seen <$C> This <-/>this pen of yours is dead This pen of yours is dead <$A> I knew it That pen has a problem Let me just get you another one because that <$D> <-/>aha Tony and <$B> some protection here uh <$C> Okay Okay <$B> The boy has to be <./>prote protected uh <$A> Uh that's good <$B> <$A> <$B> What is that <$A> Just some things I mean <$B> She got it from there also <$D> From some teeny he brings to me <$B> <$A> Ati <$B> Ati chiromo <$D> I've seen enough people with this thing <$B> Where are you going <$D> buy from that teeny <$B> How much <$D> One fifty <$A> I think it's <$B> One fifty <$D> It was one fifty <$B> <$A> This thing doesn't chuck It can't chuck this <-/>this place <$B> I think so <$C> By the way do you <-_>do you<-/> <-_>do you<-/> go swimming <$B> Me <$C> Uh <$B> Uh Why <$C> I was just asking if it's water-proof <$B> No but I go to shower I remove but sometimes I forget <$A> Let me see Let me ask you where <./>wh there is a note that <$B> Yeah behind <$D> Behind Kamba <$A> As you said Kabisa <$D> So you did the wrong thing <$?> I am done See you people <$B> Baadaye <$D> See you <$B> What do you say <$C> That It's <-/>It's <$B> I think it is this <-/chut> <-/>chut stuff <$A> they are going for ten bob Some very nice things <$D> Yeah <$A> You wonder why they are so cheap you know <$D> why I never trust them <$A> So guys go like hapana <$C> in fact it was just this weekend <$B> Akamba <$C> Uh recklessly listen we're not in a hurry <$A> And you <./>kn and Akambas usually they they're slow uh <$D> They are always <$C> You know during I hear during the day is when they are slow At night <$D> Ah they are fast at night because <$B> But they have those inspectors on the road <$C> Yeah like a corporation <$A> Yeah but talk about <$B> <$D> In fact they are selling at uh Nakuru <$B> Yeah <$D> They really took time <$B> So they don't come up with <$C> Yeah that It's like that guy had his own missions yani <$A> Then me I <-/>I usually imagine Akamba is this the most reliable <$B> It's <./>ac It's actually <$A> Yeah of course Stage Coach yeah <$D> But it's uncomfortable yeah <$C> Stage Coach <$A> Stage Coach <$?> <$D> Kwanza there is part of the seats where you guys are looking at one another you know <$C> Yeah that's <-/>that's the double deck <$B> Yeah the double deck <$A> The double deck <$D> No Not the double deck even the single deck <$D> Even no the single <$A> the ones that travel far <$C> No the express ones no <$D> It's only the double <$A> Really <$C> Yeah cause you know they have to maximise <$A> And you know by the way it's you know the space between your legs is just kidogo like this as in you guys you have to look at one another <$D> <$B> stretch <$D> At some level you look look and look <$A> You know <$C> But those things they are quite They are quite nini They are quite stable yeah They are just like you know like Okay try it but upcountry <$A> Imagine me I don't I don't wish <$A> Me I don't wish <$B> You see the problem every small kamove is exaggerated But I've used it to KU and it was fine because I could sit inside the <$D> Were you up or you down <$B> I was up <$C> You see that nini <$B> Which one <$C> <$B> Nyayo Bus Co-operation place <$A> You know that is over It's over <$B> Nyayo buses we used to see those days <$A> Yeah They <-/>they were enough <$B> Some have no <$D> And then one donated them to schools <$C> They're <-/>They're all imported you know Things that are made for those western you know uh roads And they come here uh <$A> They have no spare parts uh <$D> They were not being maintained Nothing was being done <$B> Those guys could ask for consultancy from like uh Stage Coach <$C> Yeah Me I think it nini I think it was a matter of uh expense of importing spare parts You look at those <-/>those trucks IVECOS <$B> IVECOS <$C> Uh <$B> Now it's Tata <$D> Tata <$A> Tata is It's uh <$?> It's mahindra stuff <$A> They are built here in Kenya <$C> it's an Indian thing <$A> Okay Those Kamsoon things <$B> Yeah Kamsoon makers <$D> <$C> sold through Marshall's uh <$C> Oh Yeah Tata is sold to Marshall's <$C> And when you buy the bus you buy a built one <$B> Oh yeah <$A> What about this green Stage Coach What about this green double deck Is it a Stage Coach <$B> Consolidated <$C> Which green one Is there a green one <$A> There's a kafunny green <$C> Stage Coach a big one <$A> A very big one green <$C> For what <$A> Double <$B> Consolidated Bank as in they have bought <$A> They <./>bo Uh Okay <$B> As in you only see Stage Coach behind there <$A> You just see a <./>ka Yeah <$C> it's <-/>it's much bigger than the kawaa <$B> No it's kwaida <$A> Well it's kawaa but it's green <$B> It's just like they how they used advertise <$all> Yeah <$B> That thing used to look nzuri <$A> Now this one is all green <$D> It's all green though it looks bigger <$B> That Consolidated sijui what's what <$C> It just looks well and then you <-/>you know what I thought it was a staff bus <$A> You know me too I thought it was a staff bus <$C> they pay Stage Coach <$D> Yeah to advertise in their bus <$A> Okay <$C> I mean life is funny like <-/>like the other day who <-/>who <-/>who found us over there outside the lib uh registering members for <$D> I was there <$C> Yeah I hear even to do that you have to ask for permission