<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>side two <&>0:06 be if they would admit to that but whether they do or not they are becoming australians because of the the er tremendous influence that television has <{><[>on <[>it's totally overpowering isn't it well it it's um it gets into your vernacular er you talk about the er the funny things that you saw on this programme last night ricky stewart laughs well but we've had it for years of course er er the americans have been displaced to a degree by the australians and the british have been displaced to a degree but er the australians have <.>ha have been able to er develop their er industry by giving some protection to it that's right and er this is something that er people like <&>1:00 williamson and others just don't seem to er understand i i mean the williamson the minister of er broadcasting doesn't seem to understand er this is part of the MANAGEMENT that i was talking about earlier we should be managing our economy we should be managing our broadcasting er system we should be managing our our two cultures' development rather than er let it be determined by foreigners who are able to produce in bulk and sell er cheaply to into new zealand and er and er attract television one television two and television three to buy their programmes whata i <.>d i don't think er i'll throw my own opinion in here i don't think there's much doubt that new zealand pakeha maJORITY of the pakeha population <.>w would would quite like to follow australia and be australians i don't think there's any doubt on that and and er it's been proved by the great success of the television diet we're receiving you could say that er if activists were at work er with an <&>2:00 economic collapse here we've referred to this then you modify public opinion because television is more powerful than ANYTHING <.>em emanating from parliament or the other press or radio modify public opinion and then when an ECONOMIC BARGAIN is struck later on we simply have union with australia <,> <{><[>so this is a predicate to political union with australia <[>well <.>that yes and and people are working on it at quite a high level i think that's er there's a real possibility er there that's er why we need our own television and er radio services because er we should be able to communicate with each other on what our preferences <{><[>er are <[>mm there wouldn't be er there wouldn't be er any any claim we could lay under the treaty of waitangi to being the eighth state of australia is there <.>we could we claim new zealand back under the treaty whata if we were <.>t went off if if new zealand went off shore well actually er there's er er the treaty of waitangi is speaking to us every day and in everything we do it applies to all aspects of <&>3:00 our lives and er there's there's no doubt there's hardly a a policy that comes out of government or that is pursued in the er in er new zealand which is not er in some way prejudicial to some aspect of our tikanga and er the invasion by foreign er culture to er television and er radio is one of those areas and i i think that it's er quite plausible that er we could take a case to the waitangi tribunal and and win it to say that broadcasting policy has been er has been detrimental in terms of tikanga that has of course been argued before the high court now that the language has been er threatened by the invasion of of the english language but we didn't take er the case that the tikanga had been invaded by <&>4:00 foreign programming on television and and radio and that's another line quite a big discussion point earlier this morning on te upoko was the claim over the whales oh i see yes on the breakfast show <{><[>this morning and ngai tahu were going for the tohora <[>laughs yes yes er do you support that whata well i tell you what er voc we should be claiming all of the fisheries of <{><[>course <[>you'll be claiming the airwaves next laughs <{><[>i can tell you this that i i think in this regard the waitangi tribunal didn't take on the issue in the er when when er they er heard our submissions on broadcasting they should have taken on the er the property issue and they side stepped er that one and er and i don't er i don't think we <.>s we've heard the end of it but it's true that er we have full er <&>5:00 rights to the er frequencies the airwaves access should be ours guaranteed under the er treaty of waitangi there's no prior claim that the crown has to those so yes i we er should be continuing to pursue our case that we own the airwaves <[>coughs er <.>i to give credit to bishop manu huia on the airwaves claim whata my reading was that although he didn't award assets and improvements which the waitangi tribunal always says is has a less moral purity than inhales than the pure issue it did er approve what the lawyers describe as the fetter on the crown's prerogative tut yes <{><[>well <[>on public property and to describe a prior right that maori will have now on all public resources which which looks to me like whales whata laughs <{><[>laughs laughs <[>laughs so so <{1><[1>er the listeners i'm sure the listeners will be interested in the claim of the whales by the way if you'd like to join the discussion give us a call on seven three two nine eight oh if you want to talk about er television or or the whales and so on er <&>6:00 whata i'm very interested that the news er GROSSLY misreported the whales one last night er you know the er tut the er er did a much better job of reporting the history of that over the last two years <{2><[2>when kaikoura has been er has been er there has been intense hostility to maori actually making their mark <{3><[3>and establishing a successful company you've got to take your hat off to bill solomon <[1>yeah laughs <[2>mm <[3>mm yes yes well i um tut i think that's er er er there's there's no doubt that there are there are opportunities er available er to us and we've got to be er searching er for those swallows and er meanwhile we've got to make sure that the ground rules don't preclude us the <.>v ground rules don't cut us out and of course er that is what er happened in fisheries over several years cumulatively until the point where <.>we've we er had practically no one in <&>7:00 the fishing industry now there's a return <,> to the to the industry by our people and er some of the arrangements made through the recent er maori fisheries legislation we're getting somewhere are we with fisheries do you think well we um tut we're getting organised and er the initial ten percent is helpful er in that there is some guarantee of voc an amount of fish and the number of species available to us but um it's just the er the first step in ten steps to get us to a hundred percent inhales well whatarangi wonderful digressions here let's come back to to getting ready for the minister's word hui on television the maori council has called a a maori er hui er on friday and you're having it in auckland i guess er as i said this morning there's so much maori television people up there what's the purpose <&>8:00 of having a hui for maori on friday <,> we need to be er sure that the position taken by nga kaiwhaka pumau i te reo and er the new zealand maori council swallows er those two bodies are the claimants er that the position taken by these two bodies is understood um we need to assist our people to understand the nature of the television industry er the er er financing er requirements of the er industry the er technical developments within the er industry and we need to present what er we believe to be the requirements for the development of tikanga maori television what are they whata <&>9:00 tut well tut um tut we need er access to the frequencies tut and er v h f was the one we went after with the third television channel application now t v three got that er there are alternatives er though and er they need to be looked at that's er u h f in particular can i just stop with a b s er er t v three got it er you're hiding a lot when you say t v three got it er maori council spent i think over half a million dollars on that what's your summary of the fruit of that effort of a b s did it achieve anything <.>oh <,> well you need to see it in two parts er one was the voc effort to tut win the third television channel and we were unsuccessful there but within that process er there were <&>10:00 some important steps and one was to get the broadcasting <.>comiss er broadcasting corporation of new zealand the old b c n z to commit to the provision of equipment and funding for that a b s application now subsequently they withdrew they backed out on that deal but it did set a standard it er said that's here the major broadcasting agent of the crown saying yes there should be maori television and they were prepared to support it they subsequently decided that they couldn't afford it <,> tut now that er gave er prominence to the er maori claim for for television and for a full channel and the three er requirements were access as i mentioned a moment ago to the appropriate frequency er secondly funding in order to work that frequency and the third autonomy doing it ourselves <&>11:00 <.>h <.>h how much funding <,> tut is <{><[>needed <[>well there are two parts to that and one is the capital requirement <{><[>and <[>it has to build the machinery yep that's to get the machinery and to swallows perhaps put up a building and or to er acquire tut outside broadcast er units get the er cameras that are necessary and so on broadcasting studios um and then er there is the annual operating er costs voc tut the <,> the best option available to us now i believe is to seek to acquire the assets of t v three it's a full channel it's er limping along <.>s it er we'd be able to buy those assets at a MODEST price compared with what it would cost to start <&>12:00 from scratch voc the annual operating costs are fairly substantial tut i would put those in the er neighbourhood of ninety million dollars <,> all up annually to run a full channel so where would we get that money from yes it's it's difficult isn't it in the current environment radio new zealand is collapsing for the want of four million without help from ministers their total budget er for noncommercial radio about twenty seven twenty nine million you're wanting ninety million for a new maori channel well it would need to come from two or three er different sources if t v three went off the air then its er revenues would go to <,> television new zealand <,> and its <.>r current revenues are in the neighbourhood of sixty million you're saying that if t v three went off air <.>r t v <{><[>n z would get more advertising as a result <[>yeah yes yes it would and make more money yep tut and i er the appropriate approach <&>13:00 would be to put a levy on t v one and t v two now that sort of thing is done elsewhere the commercial television channels er levy of fifteen percent swallows would er would be reasonable here and that would er produce sixty or seventy million dollars tut and they would er charge their their advertising people accordingly the revenues er that t v three are getting now would be gotten by somebody else and that would be t v one and t v two unless um unless er our channel having taken over t v three er continued to have sponsorships and advertising which it might do if it steadily phased in maori programming so it would keep the pakeha programme and pakeha staff <.>t <.>a <.>a and be a maori concern with er phasing in maori programming <{><[>later on <&>14:00 <[>well i'd see it taking place over two or three years er piripi you could start with all of the continue all of the best programmes of of t v three bill ralston well <{><[>i don't know about bill ralston but well the er er the good programmes those that that that are that attract er the listenership and and therefore that advertisers want to pay to have their products associated with if you keep that on phase er phase in a maori presence over a a couple of years and er and er change the er staff er steadily because there are people leaving all the time and you'd gradually work in maori staff and after two or three years we'd have a a maori channel <[>laughs kia ora whata well interesting well er listeners if you want to join us whata's got to leave us in a couple of moments later on before midday the next thirty five minutes we have to talk to ripeka evans whata will be with us just for a moment or two that number's seven three two nine eight oh don't worry about bill ralston <.>he he asks for it <{><[>kia ora tatou <[>laughs <&>15:00 <&>end of sample