<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>side one <&>0:56 i would've said probably in those days that what i was looking for was god or you know um <,> tut i i felt there was sort of i felt <.>th that i had kind of got out of touch with my feelings in a way because um i'd got very intellectual in in those days <.>d <.>d as the sort of teaching thing went on and um tut in the process i i think i <.>l i kind of lost a bit of balance inside myself i wasn't aware of i mean this is how it looks from <.>h here looking back i wasn't quite aware of that then but i felt you know that er um well i just felt i needed something that er that i <.>wa you know i well it wasn't didn't seem to be there i mean in in hindsight now i realise that it was there all along of course it was just that i had sort of lost touch with it <.>w were you were you filling a gap were you was was it something like that at that time <&>2:00 well i i thought it it was er i mean it <.>w it was <,> a quite a profound sort of <,> point in my life um <,> where i suppose for the first time i i i began to take my life really seriously um <,> i <,> yeah i would have said it was a gap i yeah i felt it i i'd had also for instance i'd had quite a lot of relationships um which had failed to sort of satisfy me it was almost you know various things had happened that i thought would give one satisfaction and that they didn't so you know for instance i bought a house and i thought oh when i buy this house i'm going to feel sort of fulfilled in a way you know i i'll it'll <.>no <.>n didn't happen at all and um er you know you you'd write the music and the pieces would get performed and so on and voc while it was all happening sort of yes it's very satisfying but afterwards it's <&>3:00 sort of oh you know it was all gone and and oh so unsatisfying relationships and just all <,> i i was wondering why i still felt you know <.>th there was <.>s something not quite hooked up course outwardly you seemed to be you were very successful <{><[>weren't you HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL <[>oh good god yes but outwardly i mean what is <.>outw see in i mean i was <.>ver i was especially when you're young you know you you you you have to seem to have it all together er at least that's what you <.>th that's what i you know and i i was pretty good <,> um at <.>co you know at covering up my <,> well uncertainties if you like i mean you er er it would never do to show that er one was maybe laughs in a bit of a mess um <,> and i that's why i mean teaching for me became quite a a sort of trial because i had to always i thought that i had to always appear like completely in charge in control of my my material and you <&>4:00 know seem to know what i was talking about well er er i mean when it comes to a subject like music i mean it's just er <.>absolute very hard thing to talk about and and only a fool can imagine that he has to sort of know everything that he's talking about because it's an enormous subject and er so it seems like that you know things that i thought that i ought to be able to do and couldn't do and just had to spend lots of years subsequently finding out where the limits of words and things really are and that there ARE things that we'll never be able to talk about very successfully so at that time <,> <.>y did you fill the gap or did you think you'd filled the gap at that stage by er your exploration of the divine light mission um yeah well it <.>g it it certainly gave me um what i was looking for mostly through a quite a lot of <&>5:00 unpleasant experiences this was sort of um <,> i'd i started to meditate and i took this <.>v very seriously um but er mostly what i experienced in my meditations was sort of er er a gradual realising of <.>w what a real twit i really was you know i've er i sort of one begins to see one's own shortcomings i mean i i up until that point really i don't think i'd ever seriously examined myself you know i just <.>ha i i had <.>s <.>s taken sort of so much for granted um <,> and when i did sort of sit down and i mean i i i i meditated for oh eight or nine years um and whenever i go into anything i've always gone in to sort of boots and all you know heave ho just jump in and and just really go for it you know it's it's been a matter of extremes like that for me but i can't <&>6:00 help it that's the sort of person i am um and of course when you do that i mean you learn the lessons you you learn are are extremely painful but er you learn them very well you know um and so the whole the the whole experience of that tut tut i would <.>th it gave me a <.>k a <,> a kind of i got my feet on the ground it gave me it gave me something so solid that it's er completely part of me you know i don't even think about it now i mean i don't formally meditate i haven't done that for years but then the whole experience of meditation just kind of became part of me so it's <,> er well can we describe it as an attitudinal thing it's part of your attitude to life now well i wouldn't even say that i have an attitude to life i mean i've got my life and me are just one thing um i think to even say that you have an attitude to life or have a philosophy is to kind of <&>7:00 set er is to kind of make a division <,> whereas um tut if what you <.>i if <,> it's got to be real tut it's got to be i mean <,> er it er what you believe is not nearly so important as what you are um and er what you are it <.>m may start out as being a consequence of certain beliefs but what i find with beliefs and attitudes is is that they tut they constantly change you can take up one you know you take up one approach and as you work your way through it you get to the other side of it and you begin to see what was missing in that that it wasn't satisfactory you know there's wasn't quite enough to it so then you have to sort of examine all the other possibilities and then you you find yourself maybe doing complete about face and working your way through the opposite and er i i mean whilst i was still sort of thinking in terms of what do i believe in um tut this just happened to me over and <&>8:00 over and over and over again so that if you you know if you're sort of aiming towards er what you conceive to be the ultimate i mean when you're when you're shall we say spiritually young like in kindergarten voc at first it's all just wonderful cos you're having a lot of positive things happen in your life usually when you get into something like that and you <.>th and then you begin to think ah i understand it you know i know it all and i mean this is just a trade mark of every every um enthusiast shall we say i won't quite go so far as to say fanatic but the thing is that that the moment you do start to take your life seriously powerful things certainly begin to happen to you and er can you give me an example of oh well there are so many and i don't like even talking about them because it <.>i you know <.>i it it's it's not doesn't matter what they are they're different you know they'll be sort of <&>8:00 specifically different for every person but it's the effect of them that's important it <.>grou it grounds you it directs you it makes you <,> it makes you solid finally you know because those experiences HAVE to be powerful to kind of make you realise that there is a LOT to learn almost what we're doing now to some extent is abetting this exercise because we're talking in words about experiences that are um already impossible to put into words but we're sort of scratching around the surface to some extent but but you are discovering in a in a way who you are and this is something that goes on all your life i <{><[>presume <[>coughs well er i i for for me it all it sort of it finally ended up that the questions all went away and everything became focused back on music and see now i'm i mean er er i was always a musician er but <.>i in in the earlier days when i felt that you know it <.>w it <&>10:00 it that the rewards of music and so on weren't permanent um er it's it's sort of very much changed for me i've become <.>m er like er er just completely focused into my work now and my <.>p my personal i don't have any personal questions really i mean i <.>s i you can't talk about things i don't even like the word god i just find it a very unhelpful word um but there just comes a point where you realise there's just you can't there's <.>n there's nothing you can really say about that you you have to if you haven't got it in your own soul there's no <.>w what you believe what you talk about isn't going to help um and once you have it then you can just sort of get on with what i feel you know you're really meant to be doing i'm meant to be doing music there's no doubt in my mind about that so it's sort of right morning to night now every day is i just get up and i work all day and er <,> that's it you know no questions <.>da and and and the <.>wa rewards are in the work <,> you know it's not as though you do something and expect later to have something <&>11:00 back from it is that it's something that's um dynamic and is happening all the time yeah tut yeah it's the um in the last sort of three years i mean it's been a quite a long journey for me er it's only in the last sort of three years that er <,> um i i've i've found a kind of <.>s steadiness you know because i've been through so many changes you know ups and downs it's quite oh oh alarming i mean to go through those things if you haven't if you haven't got something solid <,> and and once you have you know you you just <,> no questions no can get on so i think everyone's got something in their life that there that is for them to do and to find that once you've found that then all you can just forget about the question you can forget about the philosophy and you don't <&>12:00 have to talk about god and all this because you you with every breath <.>you you're kind of connected up with your own life and you're on the right road at least i mean that is as we said before dynamic it's something that continues day by day moment by moment absolutely i mean you you i mean who can ever know that they're on the RIGHT what is the RIGHT i mean <.>th it's a different road for everyone um i think it's probably the right road when you when you stop worrying about it and just get on with it um but i don't i mean often i'm STUCK in my work you know i i get to points where i wonder you know have i sort of i mean i'm talking completely sort of technically now have i have i sort of been attacking this musical problem and and has the way i've been approaching it been been er maybe i've just been wasting my time with that approach then maybe i'll try another one um but you see it's all those problems which were formerly in my life are now <&>13:00 just in my work <,> you know because you might think past in in in about your life like that have i been sort of approaching things in the right way i mean <.>th this is the way i sort of questioned yourself questioned myself for years er this and that and and and but now somehow some i can't explain it but it's all got turned into art <,> my whole being is <.>ab is absorbed by art not just my art not just music but all kinds you know painting um tut books being creative well yes because that seems to me where where the crunch really is because the the artists i mean our work is spiritual that's what we do <,> um in a sense we're sort of guardians of the spirit but we we i mean artists create <,> new spirit too <,> um it's a fantastic responsibility really wonderful <&>14:04