<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>side one <&>introduction not transcribed <&>8:30 now he's come up with kiwi mathematics an innovative teaching method for PARENTS to use to help children er master their tables and basic maths work skills des is with me this afternoon in auckland thanks for coming in des good afternoon to you good afternoon wayne well why did you develop kiwi mathematics first off well over tut the years with my own children er seven of them from two marriages i had developed a way of helping them with their tables and basic maths which was was very effective and on retiring i thought why not help other parents by making this <.>m method available to them because i HAD gathered as i think most other parents and people in new zealand <.>do have that er this is an area of some weakness for many of our children any idea why that is? no er <,> i DO have some beliefs as to ways that it could be remedied i <.>d i DO think that for example i've been up to singapore recently and i KNOW that parents there spend a lot of time have a lot of interest in helping their kids with their maths and with their school work generally and i DO think that our parents er present day parents like the <.>th like their parents before them have to pitch in and help teachers <.>suppl supplement what <,> teachers do <&>10:00 in class by helping kids with their tables at home er and i think the problem there is that many parents don't really have a very good way or or unsure <.>h how to do that and that's what my methods <,> um set about trying to do right is it because parents think oh this new maths i can't cope with this i'll stay right out of this they'll learn it in the class is it a reflection on them <{><[>or is it the teaching methods being used <[>voc um <{><[>i don't think it <.>th the the level of <.>s work voc the level of maths that i have interest in the tables and basic skills <.>r really are at quite a <.>l <.>s low level that any parent <.>r most parents should be able to help their children there and the new maths thing doesn't really cut across that at all <[>or a reflection of both? mm parents don't realise then just how bad the situation is from with this this basic maths skills is that what you're <{><[>saying <[>well <,> all i can really say there is that from talking to teachers i hear from teachers particularly <&>11:00 intermediate school teachers that er they are quite disturbed at the start of each new school year with what they are getting oh er <.>fr in the way of capability from their <.>childr from the new intake coming in mhm <,> so what is the learning programme all about then des is <.>th it's basic facts is it with er with addition and subtraction <,> <{1><[1>division and multiplication is <{2><[2>it <[1>yes <[2>well basic facts add multiply subtract and divide um do you want me to say something about my own method well i DO really because <.>i just so we can get an idea of how how it works i mean WHY why it's a little bit <{><[>different from what er what WE perhaps learnt <[>yes well in overview first of all i <.>di um <,> <.>th the main <,> er features of my method are first that there's an error free method used and that means that at the learning stage of this children actually learn their tables without making ANY mistakes um it's a bit hard to explain on the <.>ai over the air wayne but <&>12:00 there is a a built in way that er answers are provided to children at the point where they're stuck for them so that instead of making a mistake they write in the correct answer and as they do this a number of times they come to need that crutch less and less and and <.>qu quite quickly in fact discard it and they actually learn their tables without making any mistakes or practically any what is it a learning by rote sort of <.>th <{><[>situation <[>um it is certainly a <.>r a <.>r a repetitive er drill TYPE of a method and that's absolutely necessary for <.>th in in this particular area then um <.>s um the second main feature would be after the error free would be er the <,> type of progress chart that is available now children will usually be doing three exercises at a time and that gives them the opportunity to improve from one to the other either in terms of <&>13:00 accuracy or in terms of speed and there is a VERY neat little way that children record their own results write them in and they can see in the course of a single evening the progress which they make and that that is exciting for them and motivating for them and they want to come back the next night and and work to get up to a better level still tut and <.>th i think the third feature of my method is that it is it is very systematic er if parents will use it properly if they go step by step er it it it takes children all the way to er well my aim is to develop all children to a level of individual excellence <,> er so it's this <.>th the programme is NOT just for children who are behind er who are slow or behind with their tables it's for ALL children even the good ones even the child you might think is good could probably be two or three or four times faster <&>14:00 and that's a tremendous help if the kid gets on to say intermediate school or <.>i or if the kid gets to taking part in a mathex competition where they're working on their thinking hard on their feet and wanting to figure hard and quick on their feet is it is it <.>mo is it more work or i mean cos they're doing their own work anyways is this an addition or is this built in to be part of it do you know what i mean by that des <{><[>i mean is it adding is it an extra workload on these young students <[>voc well it IS er <,> but it's designed to take very little time um ten minutes a night three or four nights a week isn't much at the <.>a when kids are say er about er seven eight nine so that's who it's for that age group that's it er essentially but then most of our kids will still benefit from this at eleven twelve or even thirteen and in fact there's high school kids um and <.>h who who perhaps <&>pronounced as prap even fifth formers i find fifth formers <&>15:00 coughs or headmasters telling me that their fifth formers are shot in their basics and need to do remedial work there mm so it's so is it backing up the what's going on in the <{><[>classroom <[><.>a oh absolutely it's backing that up <{><[>okay <[>er <.>r really i've got a lot of sympathy for teachers because they do not have the time the <.>in to give children the individual attention which they need in this area and i think that that parents MUST be involved so parents are letting down their <.>t their their children is <{><[>that what you're saying <[><.>i if if they don't yep so how did you go about developing it i mean how did you know what content was required oh that was <.>i i guess my clinical psychology and research background made it easy for me to devise a a method and um the content that's easy enough because voc add multiply subtract divide the the the the basic facts area's very a very defined one it's one of the easiest ones to define and it's also one of the easiest to um to measure the results and er <&>16:00 this is where <.>ag again an <.>a an area that i'd like to see developed i'd like parents to know at the end of a school year in fact at the beginning of a school year i'd like them to know quantitatively and qualitatively where their kids are at <{><[>with their tables because at present they don't <[>mm mhm tut and um it's parent friendly obviously <{1><[1>this is this is another <{2><[2>laughs as i have said before a lot of parents oh no no you no i don't want a they'll i'll only teach my <,> old methods and that's not the way you should go <[1>oh yes <[2>yes yes it's it's designed to be easy to administer and fun for the kids to do is revision an area where many students today fall by the wayside des oh very much um <,,> my method divides the this whole area into three parts the first is the new learning that i referred to the second is revision consolidation and the third is the expert stage <&>17:00 and er revision voc is over for a period of probably three or four years it's essential that kids revise revise revise because this stuff just can slip away from them without that so um how do you encourage that i mean revision voc it's up to the <.>in individual surely only only the individual <,> <{1><[1>you know can <.>d can do can do that to reap the benefits <{2><[2>as i keep he says as he keeps telling his <{3><[3>children <,> but i don't think they're listening <[1>well <[2>yes well parents <[3>laughs yes so <,> voc you know i mean how does it work with this is voc do you work this <.>ou all out on separate tables for example <.>w <.>y your with your method um <,> probably the easiest way i can <,> <.>ex explain that is the way that i work it with my own kids now i've got a nine year old for example or last year when he was eight the way i used this method was in parallel with what was happening at school if um i don't like yeah if the boy came home as for example one time and i found he was working on his four times <&>18:00 they'd started their four times table at school <{><[>then i would take this i would do exactly the same table at home with him and he would work through first of all learning his four times table then going to the next stage consolidating er it and working up to a very good speed with it er to an expert <.>le speed level with that and then i would leave that perhaps do a little revision of other tables that we'd learned and then i would wait until he <.>came there was an indication that they were doing some other table at school that's how i how I use it <[>mm so it's getting back to the old tried and true methods in a way i remember the days <,> teacher running the finger up the <.>ment you know the mental <,> arithmetic and we had to yell out the right number otherwise it was curtains <.>w yes well in in some ways yes er but <.>th voc my methods DO differ <.>qu <.>su <.>f FAIRly substantially from the old way um <.>y i guess myself as a kid and many of us older people would've learnt you know two twos are <&>19:00 four two threes are six we always getting the table in the same sort of order and right and if we wanted to find out what seven eights were we'd perhaps have to think what seven sixes were and then what seven sevens were what seven eights were er this method gets right totally away from that er <{><[>and that <[>in what way how do you how do you do it then the even from the start all of the er <.>w take it a <.>t a <.>t table at a time but um the the facts in the table are always in a different order the children'll still learn them that way but they will never learn them in a in a but they do not generally learn them in a sequential order but they WILL have done that previously in class as <{><[>part of the er preparation for work with tables and i i DO want to say on that point that the understanding er <,> aspect of <.>t of table work is ABsolutely vital and that's where teachers play an eNORmous part in developing that understanding by concrete experience and <&>20:00 teaching and <.>f for the several years before children actually get to the point of being ready for <.>t work with tables <[>mm i would've thought it'd be easier to learn by rote just following on you know and just just going up a step each time but you're not you're saying that you <{><[>don't feel that way about it <[>well <.>th <.>th that there's nothing wrong with that but er er <.>th the proof of the pudding is in the eating and er if you check out the you <.>ac the results with children that you're using different methods then that's when you find that a particular method is particularly good um i i'll just mention one <,> at the expert <.>le i haven't talked at all about the expert level and um <,> at that point <,> instead of a child doing say a four times exercise um <,> it may switch to him doing a forty times exercise that count that's a very <&>21:00 easy switch and once the <.>chi and quite exciting for the child and then from forty times <.>th the the next thing the child can go to forty six times um there's also at that stage they can do do er pattern jobs like adding instead of adding seven they'll add seven <.>t seven plus the first exercise seventeen plus the second and twenty seven plus the third mm and so on and so on i oh i i won't say any more about that <{><[>it's a bit complex <[>okay i just well that's what i mean is <.>i is is is it SOUNDS as though it's a bit more bit bit complicated and adds adds a BIT MORE for the youngsters to take in at the expert level er <.>i that is so at the beginning and um speed and accuracy level it's very very simple i wanted to know why this simplicity of the method it teaches youngsters to grasp the basic facts where other methods perhaps are not you know not doing the job um it's partly the simplicity it's partly actually the aMOUNT of work because kids <&>22:00 get <.>th in in ten minutes with this they <.>g getting through a treMENdous amount of work mhm and they just are bound to learn if er <.>i if that is followed through um so <.>i yes i think that is a big aspect the the <.>shee although it's only ten minutes they get through a treMENdous amount of work in a single night right so is it's basic skills tables not changing the face of mathematics as a whole certainly not <{><[>word <[>well over three three hundred schools have purchased the programme in less than what a year since it's been going now is it des? er over four hundred now oh is it um yes <,> about er particularly in north auckland it's <.>be taken over very strongly er <,> the south island i haven't really got to yet <.>wi with what sort of results well er voc the main thing with the northland thing is that it seems to be spreading by word of mouth mm i don't have facts and figures on the on the improvement that has been shown er <&>23:00 that's the sort of information that i would like to get and how does the ministry of education feel about the programme being used in schools or or the school boards er very encouraging very supportive er for example the auckland maths education consultants um heartily recommend the method and the <.>r the recording practices er i've got something in front of me that says your programme will greatly assist most children to achieve the goal of recall <&>pronounced as reCALL mastery in the basic facts so er they've been i've consulted them along the way and they have been most supportive and what about um outside of new zealand des any any countries showing an interest in that <{><[>in the programme <[>i have been i HAVE just been up to singapore there was a book fair there last month and i took that opportunity to go up and er meet with some publishers and distributors er i also um was fortunate enough to get a time with the ministry people the curriculum er maths <&>24:00 curriculum people <.>i in singapore um i met with five of the top experts i was very nervous i can tell you yeah but er that went particularly well tut and er as a result of that there are four companies for now that i'm preparing material for er and as soon as i have got it readied we'll be sending it through to them that's probably be two or three weeks now what's the cost we need to know the you know we live in a very commercial world we need to know the cost of things um more than EVER these <{><[>days of classroom and homework procedure <.>o <.>o well of the basic <[>yep yes of the word i know it's a difficult thing to explain um on an interview and you're in one city and i'm in another yeah and i appreciate what <.>yo your efforts in trying to explain kiwi mathematics to us but <.>wha what's what's the cost for maybe <,> <{><[>a a programme for someone starting out <[>well for parents i have a package for parents and i have a package for teachers for parents if they have the full package which is four booklets er workbooks <&>25:00 covering add multiply subtract divide and a book of standard tests with a video that's fifty seven dollars and without the video it's forty five necessary to have the video? er it's not necessary but it gives um a great idea at the start what the thing is about far better than any talking that i can do or or better than people can get from reading the guide <{1><[1>they see in the video they'll see four kids going through their paces and it brings the thing to life at p t a meetings that i address it's always the video that er instantly arouses parent interest and er they're <.>a <.>a as excited as er as what word <{2><[2>laughs <[1>mm <[2>okay well it seems as though retirement has led you into a booming second career voc that's right and i learn that you're developing a new game of outdoor cricket cum softball laughs <{><[>laughs <[>how how far down the track are you with THIS <{><[>enterprise <[>um pretty well <.>n now er wayne i've just started trialling it in schools um there are three auckland <.>s three north shore schools that are <&>26:00 are are presently starting on it and i'm hoping to get five or six more er <{><[>it's <[>it's yeah <{><[>how's the how's the trials going how's it working out <[>that well i had <.>tr um what was the <,> um milford primary gave a um <.>h <.>wh a wild er rapturous er <,,> few words about it thought it was wonderful um i should could say that the reason it came about wayne was if if you've taken kids yourself to cricket yeah and you see the kids sitting around for half of the game yep it makes you think why on earth can't there be a game like that where the kids can be on the field the whole time so without going into the game too much because of the patenting etcetera side of it this game is designed that the kids er er all kids bat all kids bowl all kids field they all compete for possession so that instead of a hit they <.>g they when the <.>whi when the ball is hit er it's not just the other side <,> <&>27:00 going for it it's both sides going for it so we've got tremendous excitement there and there's a lot of other features too that i won't mention now <{><[>but it i <.>c it IS a very exciting game and i'm sure kids are going to take to it <[>laughs big kids too by the sound of things eh? yes sounds like fun <,> thanks for the information des great talking to you today and thank you for coming into our studio in auckland it's a pleasure wayne <&>27:20 <&>end of extract