<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>tape one side two <&>0:56 bill dillon mister speaker in the general debate of this afternoon we have had a number of issues raised by the opposition er some of them have dealt with the major issue that has been raised by the government and that is the question of the clyde dam and it is proposed that this be <,> this be this be summed up er at this stage <,> here we have the latest three hundred and thirty seven MILlion stabilisation bill for clyde <,> this being but the most recent in a saga of blunders and disasters associated with this project mister speaker it could probably be significantly termed the maramarua memorial certainly not a memorial hall but it will stand there forever more as a memorial to the member for maramarua <,,> blackadder's pyramid has been suggested <,> blackadder goes <&>2:00 forth and brings forth a dam coughs Mister speaker the blame for this fiasco <{1><[1><,> rests entirely with the national opposition and in particular the member for maramarua but of course there is equal blame for those who supported those who were in government at that time primarily that would be for those who were in cabinet <,> BUT also extending through to those who were in caucus too bad that we didn't have a previous person like the member for albany who could have in the face of the proposal tendered his resignation <,> coughs but what do we have we do have from the member for selwyn a very sincere expression of apology <&>3:02 an expression of regret er for having er supported the proposal at that time it might well be significant mister speaker if also the member for raglan er were reminded of what HE had to say concerning er the clyde dam <,> <.>a and i quote from some of those <,> some of those reports <.>b at that time in june and er in nineteen eighty two <,> where the member for raglan said the public have a right to be sceptical about the government's support for the clyde high dam <,> how true <,> much of the information was both compelling and disturbing to commit a workforce and capital to the project when it knew that shows a cynical disregard for the rule of law now those are <&>4:00 quotations from the member for raglan in june nineteen eighty two at a time when the THEN government was committed er to the clyde high dam proposal er but when in fact it had not made the vast investments of money that are <&>drawl now a memorial to the member for maramarua <,> mister speaker taxpayers are still paying er for <&>drawl the member for maramarua's pet projects <,,> besides the clyde dam there are all the other think big schemes which he so proudly touted around the country at that time but which now are approaching a monstrous figure of nine point five BILlion DOLlars <,> this three hundred and thirty seven added to the previous nine billion takes it towards takes it towards the nine point five <&>5:02 BILlion figure <,> but <,> let's be fair the member for maramarua is not the only member who should hang his head in shame <,,> once again this government is left to clean up another mess left to it <,> by the opposition <,> as usual they will take no blame it will all be someone else's fault if the opposition cannot take responsibility for their past actions what hope is there that they will take responsibility for their actions in the future mister speaker the members in the opposition benches are tainted with the clyde dam fiasco this debate is proof that national are unfit to govern new zealand their caucus is FULL of former ministers who rejected that sound advice given to them who displayed contempt for the due process of law <&>6:00 who refused to heed public opinion <,> and who wasted millions of dollars <,> of the taxpayers' money <,> today these same people are trying to tell us they can form the next government of this country mister speaker in reality they CANnot be trusted <,> mister speaker <,,> let's just have a look at some of the headlines that have been in the newspaper in the media er since this revelation er has been er publicised in the last few days and weeks muldoon defends clyde dam decision the member for tamaki still retains that this was a sound decision he argues that the clyde dam was built with the support of the best <&>7:00 professional advice the headline suggesting that there was a public danger that there was official secrecy and the clyde dam still came through as publicised <&>pronounced as publishised by the national business review all of this refutes muldoon's the claim <.>fro the member for <{2><[2>tamaki <[1>order <[2>order yeah i think the <,> the the member must refer <,,><&>6 <{><[><,> no the not not the member <[>er mister speaker is that an interjection from the member <{1><[1>who wished who wished that the dead person <{2><[2>on mount maunganui <[1>order order <[2>order order if the member resumes his seat no the the member <,> order <,> the the member er in referring to a member of the house used his er his his <{><[>er surname <[>and immediately immediately <{><[>corrected sir <[>and the member the member <,> we have <.>we <.>a approved in this house the reference to to the muldoon government and to er to er rogernomics for example <&>8:06 <&>tape cuts out then continues on second tape <&>tape two side one <&>0:29 we can use people's names for those when they become part of a a a muldoonist approach i think <.>t is is is acceptable but but not not <.>j not in the terms which the member used <{><[>word <[>yes mister speaker i immediately corrected by calling him <.>th the member for tamaki <,,><&>3 <{><[>bill dillon <[>mister speaker <,> do we hear from the member for for kaimai the member who had the audacity <&>1:00 to write a letter to me WISHing that the name of the person killed on mount maunganui was monica dillon rather than monica candwell that's absolute rubbish well you just take that back word absolute <{><[>rubbish <[>just take that <{><[>back <[>absolute rubbish mister speaker <,> mister speaker can i say that <,> the claim by the member for tamaki <,> the member for tamaki <,> still has his claim that the clyde dam decision could be deFENDed refuted by that in the national business REview <,> the report which shows that the official secrecy and the public danger still required in <&>2:00 THAT member's mind the clyde dam to proceed mister speaker i suggest that <,> the <,> since the last debate on the clyde dam fiasco there has come to hand the new information which reveals national's incompetence over this issue <,> today they want <,> to lay this to rest they want to debate anything in this general debate except the clyde dam i believe it is important and significant to this country that this dam fiasco the fiasco of the dam be reminded to the people of this country to show that those who were in power at that time are still those <,> who <,,> favour the treasury benches who seek to <&>3:04 gain the treasury benches and that new zealand needs to be reminded that that sort of fiasco should not ever be visited on this country ever again <,> mister speaker the cabinet paper that has been revealed this week shows it all that despite there being a choice between the low dam and the high dam <,> because of the aramoana er power scheme er that was bruited but which of course was <,> well behind before the work was initially er undertaken it was still possible for the government of the day to revert back to the low dam after the power smelter the smelter at aramoana er had been put to rest no it continued on and we now have <{1><[1><,> a further obligation <{2><[2>to find means of <{3><[3>stabilising the ground in that area <[1>order <[2>order <[3>the honorable member's time has now expired <&>4:08 <&>unsourced recording <&>32:43 yes the right honourable <,> helen clark mister chairman <.>it it's really amazing what some members of the opposition get into a lather about sir a small trust designed to help trade unions bring themselves into the modern age sir bring themselves into the modern age MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITION <&>33:00 constantly rail against trade unions they call them outdated oldfashioned ineffective and when somebody tries to do something about that they find a conspiracy sir and i say they only allege conspiracy because they're too dull to actually go through their estimates properly and ask the sort of questions which might show them just how well part of the taxpayers' money was being spent and seeing sir that unions are modern and effective industrial institutions in the nineteen nineties sir i say the trust is a worthwhile experiment sir i say that unions will be able to service their members better and that is in the interests of industrial relations in this country <&>33:53 <&>end of Helen Clark's talk