<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>side one <&>0:18 right <,> like i've said to everybody if we could keep this meeting to half an hour i think cos we're <,> we've all got lots of things to keep us occupied <,> um jasmine has er given me a few things on the agenda i haven't distributed an agenda um <,> <.>last unless anybody has any objections i will just choose an order which suits go on is that okay <{><[>agreed laughs <[>okay okay right um first <,> perhaps start with something controversial inhales um and that is now that jasmine has officially retired <&>1:00 just a minute <&>closes the door <,> and her job is vacant and may or may not be replaced inhales it might be an idea for us to give eileen OUR ideas on <{><[>how r p d should be restructured <[>mm not r p d just this section of it anyway <{><[>needs word <[><.>well <.>well well i mean the yeah okay but um <.>h but r p d because i mean it affects <{><[>what other positions may or may not be <[>mm mm be created what the people can <{1><[1>can i say i i'm delighted i feel like toscanini because when he retired or <.>i he might have died <{2><[2>anyway the <{3><[3>orchestra word no anyway no anyway the orchestra decided they couldn't possibly disband and they went on anyway <[1>here <[2>word <[3>he he did eventually mm and i really think it's quite important because if we don't do something <.>an <.>an and HARD <,> it'll just <,> be lost and um <.>i i hope to demonstrate with the tape that i've got here that i think it'd be a great SHAME <.>if if the <&>2:00 <,> SPECIFIC a a <,> function was just sort of <,> WAS disappeared not disappeared <.>b but <{><[>you know <[>made redundant mm yeah the disappeared <{><[>ones word <[>mm <,> <.>bu er er <.>but but <.>tr is there um <,> possibility within r p d though for there to be inhales more advisers not just audio advice i mean should there be created if they're going to restructure <,> at any stage more um more <,> thump head laughs um <.>ad advisers as jasmine was for audio should there be something for um <.>au um video <{><[>computing <[>video yes yes <{><[>computing and things like that <[>well aren't aren't you the the <.>a <.>a adviser already mm? i thought you were <{1><[1>the <{2><[2>audio adviser in so far as <[1>oh <[2>yes but word he'd happy to do some <[2>voc <.>i i <.>i <.>i word i mean having responsibility cos now that jasmine has retired madeleine is <{><[>in charge of everything <[>she ought to be here my god word meeting oh <.>no <.>does doesn't matter no <.>w we'll just <.>h have this <{1><[1>among ourselves um she gets in charge of EVerything with no no help at <&>3:00 all and it seems to me given the complexity of all the <,> editing arrangements that <,> um eventually some restructuring involving at least <,> one <,> person whether that person should have different needs to be just audio or <{2><[2>be like a a deputy to madeleine with perhaps specific responsibility for audio but also helped her with some administration is another matter i don't know what anybody else thinks <[1>okay <[2>mm mm i mean is it do we need to present some sort of submissions <{><[>or something <[>well <.>i <.>can i was going to go back a bit and just sort of um think about how this whole er a a group was set <{1><[1>up in the first place and what actually happened was that um there was a senior teacher position GENERAL senior teacher in the editing group which was then word <,> and <,> that was me <,> and <,> then a second <,> <&>4:00 senior teacher editing was appointed carmen and after a while i sort of shifted sideways so that carmen had the main responsibility in the er <{2><[2>word editing and with some back up from me <,> but i had the total responsibility for setting up a parallel a a group <[1>mm <[2>word mm inhales so at that point i mean my job had actually <,> it wasn't voc <{1><[1>what i'm saying is that when i was doing it this wasn't my total job i wasn't er supposed to be doing nothing but a a what i was doing was was sort of giving back up to the madeleine of the day um but having a a as PART of the job <,> and i'm wondering whether that's a possibility whether that there is a <{2><[2>some sort of a position that would maybe combine a a and video <,> and <{3><[3>i don't know that <[1>word <[2>word <[3>very different areas aren't they mm that's <{><[>true <[>computing is a totally different skill <&>5:00 and computing is a <{><[>totally different skill <[>word c e r c rom or whatever <{><[>it gets called <[>well i'm very conscious though i'm very conscious that we have a lot of skills in audio mm audio advising broadcasting audio editing um and in producing in the audio suite and <,> i felt <.>r really distressed to <{1><[1>hear that there was a possibility of your position going but i've been thinking about it further and wonder whether <,> um <.>i it should in fact be incorporated in the whole audio broadcasting area <{2><[2>more than it is at the moment because which would actually give it more form and more skill base <{3><[3>to do the job because um people that are in i almost call it a fourth dimension the ability to <{4><[4>present things in in the audio field in an exciting way and it's almost is another way of looking at the world <,> and if you've already got people that are involved in broadcasting and audio it seems a shame <,> to have a separate audio <&>6:00 advisers group when there is all this <{5><[5>wealth in broadcasting advising and audio production <[1>mm <[2>word <[3>well <.>i uhuh word just <[4>yes <[5>mm well when i wrote my annual <{1><[1>reports i brought that up time and again <,> that i wanted a closer link i thought it would be a good idea never mind that i wanted to have a closer link with audio <,> with the audio producers but i THINK <,> there's going to be fighting about that because laughs divided off the you know r p d that's er planning and development section from the production <{2><[2>section and the <,> er <,> well <.>i i'm in two minds about it i agree with you enTIREly i think the production audios needs to be emphasised more but i also think that a as need to be in much much earlier at the planning stage i've thinked that for YONKS and nothing's <{3><[3>ever happened <[1>mm <[2>yeah <[3>mm yes even i'm now i'm jumping on on your agenda but know i <{><[>gave you that point <[>no it's also no bad thing provided <.>a any <&>7:00 advisory group <,> you know sort of a a group can work hand in hand with the audio er broadcasting <{><[>side to <.>pr you know to produce a united front on some things <[>mm two of us word um <,> but do you remember in the early days we actually used to have um people from well ted use to come and <{1><[1>michael and so on to the a a <{2><[2>meetings sometimes <[1>yes <[2>well they used to that that went on for a <{><[>long time <[>and went <.>in yeah went on for quite <{><[>a long time <[>well i thought it was an excellent idea and and <{><[>so <[>so that so that in fact WE were sort of because i i felt if somebody who <,> er was trying to be an audio advisor <,> um <,> but wasn't ACtually involved in making broadcasts or making tapes any more that i quickly got out of touch particularly <{1><[1>about what was happening in the sort of technological area <{2><[2>in <{3><[3>in the audio suite <[1>yes <[2>mm <[3>mm <.>n now you sorry adam can i can i jump or tut um well i think that's what i'm trying to sort out one thing at a time though er colin have you got any yeah <.>i i see the key finding from what jasmine <&>8:00 and di said we're too compartmentalised here as if <{><[>you can sort of separate off the functions into neat little <[>yeah word just to suit mike thompson's model of of r you know <{><[>r p d being different from production really <[>laughs yes mm this isn't it's just not just audio no i think as you say we we should actually be in earlier in the planning but so many courses DON'T use tapes <{1><[1>when they could jolly well make better use of tapes and secondly i'm disappointed to see how the production of the tapes sometimes is so <,> boring and disappointing after the potential you can see in it <{2><[2>word <{3><[3>word <[1>yes <[2>yes yes yeah but word yes <[3>mm mm exactly yeah and the third one is that it's coming to that um mm tut c d rom thing i know if you've just sort of have heard the first part of it <,> you know and all the visuals going on and the audio track that came with it was so POOR the the production was lousy and <{1><[1>what's the point of having all this wonderful thing going on on the screen <{2><[2>when <{3><[3>word <[1>mm <[2>laughs <[3>word i i i actually checked i went actually saw the maths one this morning there <.>wa there was this was a very early one it had madeleine and <&>9:00 caroline's voices on <{1><[1>it and <{2><[2>caroline's voice there was <{3><[3>no projection or anything <[1>oh <[2>oh no no no no NO NO <[3>oh that was that was <{><[>just a pilot <[>that was word <[>word <{><[>word <[>no no no <.>all all that's been redone <{><[>yeah <[>yeah it's been totally redone yes well i'm sure everybody agrees <{><[>that it was a disappointment yeah <&>9:00 <[>yeah well they didn't have a clue <{><[>but <[>yes and i think caroline was the first person to say had i been making this for any real purpose i wouldn't have chosen myself to do it at <{1><[1>all <,> that was the one <{2><[2>they did when they were over in <{3><[3>australia <{4><[4>wasn't it <[1>mm <[2>mm <[3>australia <[4>yeah yeah okay mm mm yeah er but i think it exemplifies my point that um you can't say that <.>thi this is this is um <,> video adviser or computing adviser cos both of them have an <.>audi an audio er element in them <{><[>and it's <[>inhales <.>could <{><[><.>could <[>what is being proposed at <{1><[1>the moment about about <{2><[2>restructure <[1>well a a about about this <.>n nothing <[2>we don't know <{><[>that's that's why it's not i hadn't i i'd er reckon it's fair just to see what people here <[>nothing so why don't we propose it i think it's a good <{><[>idea too <[>thought i mean i mean you know <.>h how much is jasmine's loss going to be um a grave i mean as a <,> as a word in the word <{><[>laughs going to be felt um and what might the repercussions be and how much <,> structuring does the new thing need <&>10:00 <[>laughs well i just see this part and parcel of the <{1><[1>whole thing we cut down the teaching staff and the quality of the teaching goes down now now if we cut down the staff within the course development the quality of <{2><[2>the courses is going to go down <[1>mm <[2>mm mm <{><[>mm <[>mm <[>but that isn't really what we're suggesting is it <{><[>i mean just suggesting that word <[>oh no we're not suggesting that but that's what they're that's what they're doing to it mm mm <,> i mean <.>i the question to me is is whether there is a need for <,> a p r position <,> or whether <,> it can be taken under the wing of general d t a but sort of <{1><[1>um kept word yeah with <{2><[2>people who who have that <{3><[3>discretionary responsibility agree to get together from time to time <[1>with people who'll take responsibility <[2>mm <[3>or whatever mm and i have to ADMIT <,> that <,> when i mainly was doing a a and not a lot else <,> it didn't take me nearly as <{1><[1>much time as say <{2><[2>a p r two senior teacher in a subject <{3><[3>area does it just wasn't as big a job <[1>mm <[2>word <[3>no way no way <.>jus so if <&>11:00 <,> if we're looking at recommending that that a p r position be made we've either got to add some other duties to the p r position OR we've got to um suggest a p r one or <,> or something <{><[>cos i mean i i think definitely we need to keep the focus <[><.>i but i i think you know <{><[>word <[>i mean it's just how to do it at one stage you know when oh who the hell was it er tut <,> philip jeffs was going round making a report mm um we had meetings <,> the two no with ken from s a <{1><[1>t and colin <,> and ted <,,> and michael morrison that was for broadcasting and me <,> and i as as um <,> kind of audio <.>electron <{2><[2><.>wh what is it called you go word so electronic media something we weren't even included in the thing <{3><[3>but there's always there seems to be this division that we MUST <&>12:00 have a leg in both camps in the production side and in the in the <[1>mm <[2>laughs <[3>mm scripting and <{><[>development <[>scripting i mean in at the planning stage because <,> you see <,> a hell of a lot happens because di's part in the broadcasting and also used in tapes a lot and because i sit down here and i purposely put myself down here but you're <{><[>part of the you're part of the <[>word right voc yes a a and broadcasting and e t a <{><[>and e t a <[>yes but aren't you part of the r p d <{1><[1>committee that considers all plans for all courses <{2><[2>word that's something i wanted to ask you <[1>yes i am <[2>yes but i'm not i'm oh hang on i'm not i'm <{><[>not talking about that <[>can i ask you a question do you do you actually get involved in all course proposals or only <{1><[1>the ones where they've already asked for a tape i mean do <{2><[2>you have the opportunity of doing what colin <{3><[3>suggested that is saying if they haven't suggested a tape for this course but it would be much better if it had one <[1>yes <[2>no by the time <[3>no no word by the time well i don't get involved in all at all <&>13:00 now because i don't exist <{1><[1>but by the time the a a got involved it <{2><[2>was at after p r <,> three is it after the first proposal <[1>right but when you did laughs <[2>mm that you <{1><[1>were on the r p d group but not <{2><[2>the curriculum <{3><[3>group <[1>it was the old p r four <[2>yes <[3>no the curriculum i was on the curriculum committee oh well in in that case <{1><[1>inhales <{2><[2>but that that is actually is quite it actually really is quite a an important deletion it means there's no <[1>right <[2>but because word right <{><[>well madeleine <&>surname <[>there's no <[>it means there's no specific mm tape <{1><[1>input into <{2><[2>considering the <[1>no <.>act <[2>at the beginning return mm but it was all it was at that stage already too late to suggest why don't you put in tapes because by that time they they've already said we want a course to include a b c d and e and i think what colin and that's not too late then <{1><[1>because it's <{2><[2>still it's only very early on <[1>it's not too late <[2>i actually see one of the the ways that i can be the most helpful to a course is not only knowing the technical side of putting things together but i have a LOT of yes creative <&>14:00 <{1><[1>input in audio <{2><[2>terms and for that reason i think i could be better use right at early planning <{3><[3>stage in <{4><[4>in the writing <[1>word <[2>mm <[3>mm <[4>mm mm um but i would suspect that anybody who is in the area of audio in the other sections like in production or in broadcasting and things also has that funny bent that creative bent which may WELL <,> add to courses particularly for the secondary courses in in a way which hasn't <{1><[1>really happened up <{2><[2>till now <[1>they they don't use it <[2>mm word <{><[>word <[><.>d <.>d do we at the very least need to recommend that <,> that the potential for audio input needs to be taken into account by the curriculum committee especially now that jasmine is not <{1><[1>here i mean <{2><[2>does seem something which we <.>get we at least we can at least say that no matter <,> what we say about any <{3><[3>possible restructuring <[1>yes <[2>mm <[3>yeah i think it's quite important to to um sort of include madeleine in this <{><[>because obviously <[>and she ought she was going to be here but <{1><[1>for some reason she didn't <{2><[2>come yes <,> oh yes <[1>mm <[2>because you know the fact that that <{1><[1>jasmine's job has been delegated to <{2><[2>madeleine <&>15:00 <[1>mm <[2>madeleine and the other <{1><[1>other bit of <{2><[2>it has word <[1>mm <[2>um if we start saying you know sort of it should happen this way or we suggest it happen that way <{><[>and <[>mm <[>can i express my <,> unease at <,> this group being <,> taken over by d t a who are print text orientated people by and large mm um you're welcome to write that down di all laugh and i'm fearful that that the other ways of presenting learning material will be lost because of that <{><[>dominance <[>yes yes word <{><[>word word <[>mm carried <{><[>unanimously you'd say <[>word <{><[>word <[>say yes <{><[>yes yes <,> so <.>tho those two <.>iss issues the <.>pa you know the <,> of that plus the word committee and the noninvolvement from now on so therefore the implicit um sidelining or the danger of sidelining other <&>16:00 <[>laughs who are we <{1><[1>actually going to to <{2><[2>er submit this to word <[1>word <[2>madeleine madeleine word madeleine i'm just writing out the <{><[>minutes just just minutes <[>or eileen? well madeleine can take it to eileen eileen but leave it out word with your minutes when we go oh i'll show you i've got a list of <{><[>what i'd like to <[>word okay <{><[>right <[>oh right they're just minutes <{><[>mm <[>right okay um well actually well perhaps those are the most have <{1><[1>not much point i think going on past <{2><[2>restructuring <[1>word <[2>there was one other thing that pauline shaw who was one of the producers and she used to be in a a well that's word came to me only for <.>p have i done anything about about it can i give her any info er she's going to meet eileen because she's concerned about exactly the same thing that she doesn't think there's enough use made of audio tapes which are VERY CHEAP i mean they're <{1><[1>relatively if you compare it with the c d rom i mean <,> help and there's not enough use being made for <&>17:00 it of them particularly she's interested in i p s where kids see a text and they turn off now <{2><[2>if they had some other different stimulus it might just start <{3><[3>them off <{4><[4>wouldn't it <[1>mm <[2>mm <[3>right <[4>so for the fact <{><[>that the that the second item of the word this is really what di was saying too about the <[><.>jus mm early involvement so perhaps this i mean this links to the other <,> other item too so <{1><[1>perhaps we need to we need to state <,> in a in the you know the minutes our <,> inhales our concern for the <,> about the we have a need for early involvement of <,> audio advising <,> <{2><[2>before detailed planning starts <[1>mm <[2>designing mm the courses that's word laughs i i cut you off while i was thinking of my mm <{><[>word <[>word i think the two things but i'm on record of saying this about the english teachers and i feel that <,> <.>we we do a little bit of listening comprehension in the third and fourth form <{><[>cos it's syllabus <[>mm mm but i mean it <.>str strikes me as rather peculiar when after all most <{1><[1>people actually listen far more in a day than they read and yet we emphasise reading comprehension and not listening comprehension <{2><[2>it's crazy <[1>it's pathetic <&>18:00 <[2>yes mhm and the other thing is word social studies work and as an a a i i've been a social studies teacher word planning i don't think a person's culture and so much of a culture is transmitted <.>o <.>au aurally <{><[>and there's just <[>yes yes <{><[>mm <[>mm this is in writing and word and they don't use it in the secondary much AT all <&>18:27