<&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies <&>Victoria University of Wellington <&>side one <&>0:20 we won't be disturbed mm we <{><[>hope <[>what time is your class it's quarter past ten but i have to go and try and get the sticks um tut what do you call those long sticks that <{><[>they use for the er <[>oh rakau ones yes ti rakau mm right because mere asked me to try and get them mere's taking my class <{><[>word <[>oh that's good <,,><&>3 now we need to work out those criteria for outstanding and we need to do the course outline so which one shall we do first we'll do the criteria if i understand well <&>1:00 maybe similar <.>to <,,><&>3 to the other m s one hundreds <,> well i think they'll be somewhere between the one hundreds and the <{><[>three hundreds <[>three hundreds yes i went to that course on assessment the <{><[>other night and um i've got <.>mo mixed feelings about it laughs <[>oh did you right the thing that really got me was one of the points that came up <.>w he was talking about a biology criteria that they were trying to set down for <.>biolo a biology <.>course secondary biology course and one of the things that the teachers wanted to include was caring about living things <,> um tut and all the teachers thought that was important but they had to ditch it in the end because there was no way they could assess it and i find that sort of thing really alarming that you take <&>2:00 something out of your objectives mm simply because you can't assess it <,,> so er wouldn't you <.>c assess it <.>on on <.>behaviour behaviour voc but it's subjective you see and <.>of of course it's important and <{1><[1>you can assess it in your head but you can't actually <{2><[2>write down things and <.>the oh so <.>i that really worries me but apart from <.>th that i found that basically <.>the <,> achievement based assessment is more or less what we do anyway so that was quite comforting because i <{3><[3>hadn't caught up with the jargon <[1>yes <[2>write it down <[3><.>but yes yeah doesn't it differ from <,,><&>3 you <.>know in terms of language learning <,,><&>3 assessment <.>h how did <.>w how would you assess say language <&>3:00 learning as opposed to achieving a number of criteria in your maths you know <{1><[1>in your maths lesson say for instance you want to find out whether children are achieving in addition or subtraction <{2><[2>whatever it may be that would be quite easy to assess but <{3><[3>how would you assess something like a language <.>learning <[1>yeah <[2>mm <[3>mm mm well it really is very difficult mm because you can even spout sentences on cue but not necessarily use them in real korero <{><[>situation and that's the sort of thing that i think goes against us when it comes to <.>this <[>yes yes type of assessment <,,> i mean our students' pronunciation for <.>instance our students might pronounce maori beautifully when we ask them to recite this or that but then when it comes to actually pronouncing it correctly when they're <&>4:00 talking about a street name or a place name and things that's <.>when that's really the <{><[>crunch isn't it <[>when it's yes in <.>n normal run of <{1><[1>conversation mm so it is difficult for us but um <.>i i've got this list here about the criteria that i thought we might glance at as we go through this um criteria must be consistent with course objectives <{2><[2>well i suppose that's fairly basic er do you want to have a look at <{3><[3>that i <.>might actually i might run a copy off <{4><[4>yeah afterwards yeah just have a look at it now but <.>i'll i'll run a copy off afterwards mm? <[1>mm yes <[2>yes mm <[3><.>c word a copy <[4>well the <.>photocopier's word it may pay <.>to for us to <.>have both have <.>a have a <{><[>copy each so that word copiers on oh okay then well that won't take a minute <[>oh yes okay well i'll go yes okay well i'll go and do a copy now is the <.>printer er copier on right now i want <.>to <,,><&>23 <&>5:11 anything new though in assessment <.>and did you <{><[>find anything <[>no well <.>i <.>i i found <.>ou i felt more comfortable in some ways because <.>there i felt more comfortable that it's more or less what i'm aiming for yes but I feel as if i'm a long way away from it yes and that we probably all are in our <{1><[1>department but i ALSO have this nagging feeling of is it really worth striving for um to be able to <{2><[2>assess everything aren't there some things <[1>yes <[2><.>w yes that we have to <.>g let go that are PRECIOUS yeah mm yeah and that can only <.>be it's HARD to assess those internal things mm it is it really is you can't put a number to <.>them to them or a LETTER to them or sometimes even words no no it's a gut feeling <{1><[1>often isn't it and they do include attitudes in their <,> um <{2><[2>types of objectives <[1>yes <&>6:00 <[2>right and that's important i think <{><[>word <[>yes <.>but but THEY seem to think that you can assess attitudes in that calculating way and <.>i i have my doubts about that i think it's all very subjective yes it is tut um but at <.>least at least i know that we're moving in the right direction with it is there any other department who are involved in <.>language actual language learning in the <{><[>college here? <[>in the college no though english would have the same sorts of difficulties as WE do <{><[>in that they're looking at literature um language acquisition er in terms of furthering their knowledge of english <[>yes yeah but <.>then and those things <{><[>are hard to assess too <[>it's <.>different it's different though with being less <.>sh you know <&>7:00 lot of the students have alREADY got a basic knowledge of english haven't they and quite a rounded knowledge of english <{><[>word whereas with OURS it's just a completely new language <[>and certainly they all know that english is word mm <,> it's different in that respect and it's different too in that ours need winning over <{><[>often <[>yes yes but in terms of difficulty in assessing it i bet it's very HARD for them to assess somebody's feeling for literature for instance yes yes yes so i think they've got very similar difficulties and perhaps we should meet with them at some stage to talk about assessment oh we <.>ch yeah and <.>w i guess yeah for our departments we would have similar er problems with assessment <{><[>as they would <[>mm mm and the other department of course is tuhonohono tangata because they have that business of attitudes mm um that's almost entirely what <&>8:00 they're all about isn't <{><[>it attitudes <[>yes yes right it is it is and look how a lot of the <.>students not boycotted but didn't enrol in their classes <{><[>and their numbers were real low down <[>mm mm as compared to previous years and i <.>wo just wonder whether that's an attitudinal thing <,> tut i think it's only partly that but partly people are coming to maori studies for <.>their for their BIculturalism mm mm and <.>they've <,> they've perhaps moved away from wanting the multicultural <.>i i would see that as PARTLY positive but there may be negative things going on there too mm <,,> anyway it's something we need to <{><[>look at but before we set our own criteria perhaps we could have a look at this and just see if we can learn anything from it <,,><&>3 <&>9:00 <[>yeah it says here in c the criteria should identify strengths rather than weaknesses and be written in positive language mm but <.>then isn't weaknesses also part of our <.>a assessment and examination <,> is it <{><[>not so much pointing out the weaknesses but it's <.>expressing it's the way we express it i suppose <[>yeah mm there ARE some examples here from the biology course um <,,><&>5 that's very small but <.>that there are some examples there when you say <.>that what the child or the person CAN do right um something like he SOMEtimes pronounces maori words correctly for instance <{><[><.>so so it DOES say that most of the time he <&>10:00 doesn't but <,> tut um <,,><&>3 tut <,,> yes there was a better one there that was clearer and i can't find it <,,> oh here was one level one atTEMPTS to draw a graph level two draws a graph which has SOME points correctly placed level three draws a graph which has MOST points correctly placed and that's the sort of way they do it <[>yeah yes and um yes <.>well yeah here it is here attitudes works towards a completion of some investigations completes SOME <.>invesi completes MOST investigations <{><[>completes investigations yes <[>yes that's the way they do it mm but THEN <.>there's I took issue with this use of frequently and USUALLY voc now to YOU if i frequently <,,> um remember to pronounce maori words properly and you USUALLY remember to pronounce <{><[>maori words properly who does it most <,> <&>11:00 <[>yes the <.>fre the frequent one would it laughs well that's the way <{><[>they've got it <[>word yes but to ME it's the other way round usually means almost all the time <{><[>i mean <.>that's <.>that's <[>frequently does too frequently just means often to ME but i mean these words are <{1><[1>also <,> very um tut individual aren't they we use words in a different <{2><[2>way <.>i <[1>yes <[2>and of course they have individual <.>term <.>t you know <.>m <.>me it's obviously it means <.>s something different to you than it does to me EXACTLY and when i went home and um talked about that one to lenny HIS usage of frequently and usually is the same as mine but i guarantee if you got a room full of <{><[>people you <.>would laughs <[>yes you'd have <.>split laughs <,> no yes <{><[>you'd have different <.>ideas this was it <,,><&>3 oh that was another <.>one that was an <&>12:00 art one anyway we'll look at these some other time <[>word yes but i argue with that use of frequently <.>and yes they have the <.>criter rarely sometimes <{1><[1>USUALLY frequently and consistently to me i would turn the usually and the frequently round the other way because to me frequently means often and usually means well that's my HABIT but occasionally i break it if i say i FREQUENTLY have breakfast in the mornings to me that might mean four or five times a week but if i USUALLY have breakfast it means <{2><[2>that i DO have breakfast it's just once in a blue moon i forget <.>or or don't moon i forget <.>or or don't have time so to me they're the other way round but you could argue it until the cows came <{3><[3>home and i bet there'd be people who would differ on that so the very criteria that you set down <{4><[4>are so important <{5><[5><.>and and so PERSONAL <[1>yes <[2>yes yes yes <[3>yes <[4>mm <[5>it is mm very personal tut and it's also personal <&>13:00 to the <.>writer to the assessor yes of course it is but THESE ones were interesting <.>because have a look at those voc borrow these anyway and go through <{1><[1>them but there is an actual report that has been written according to these criteria those um <,> those college ones <,,> oh that side that's the one those ones have been written on on the basis of this type of um information <{2><[2>you see and <,> it says in the area of communication winton can communicate written ideas to others orally he communicates ideas clearly and tries to promote interest when searching for information he locates information but requires assistance to select <&>14:00 appropriate material he accurately records relevant data and presents it he also produces diagrams he uses detailed observations and makes comparisons and it all sort of <[1>mm <[2>yes yeah sounds very impressive but apparently that was all written with a computer <&>14:15