<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side two</&>
  <&>0:24</&>
  

  <WSC#DGB004:0005:HS>
      so what HAPPENS if <.>you're</.> if you're made redundant <,>
      through no fault of your own

  <WSC#DGB004:0010:Z1>
      <.>they</.> they have a labour shortage in fact <&>clears throat
      and laughs</&>

  <WSC#DGB004:0015:Z1>
      they're importing labour from both malaysia and indonesia

  <WSC#DGB004:0020:Z1>
      there aren't any out of work singaporeans so successful is their
      economy

  <WSC#DGB004:0025:HS>
      just go back to that discipline

  <WSC#DGB004:0030:HS>
      are we talking traditional chinese family links that impose
      discipline or <{><[>a</[> sense of value of education or
      something

  <WSC#DGB004:0035:Z1>
      <[><.>ye</.></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0040:Z1>
      er well both those things

  <WSC#DGB004:0045:Z1>
      um lee has always been very concerned er not <.>to</.> lee kuan
      yew <&>1:00</&> not to have a SOFT society

  <WSC#DGB004:0050:Z1>
      he sees the west as decadent and soft and he does stress um the
      need for <,> er families to support each other so <,> <.>i</.>
      in your old age either you've saved for it or your family looks
      after you

  <WSC#DGB004:0055:Z1>
      er <?><.>th</.></?> you certainly don't look to the state for
      handouts

  <WSC#DGB004:0060:HS>
      and you know that from day one

  <WSC#DGB004:0065:Z1>
      you know that from day one yes <{><[><?><.>th</.></?></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0070:HS>
      <[>mm

  <WSC#DGB004:0075:HS>
      what</[></{> about the emphasis on education

  <WSC#DGB004:0080:HS>
      do you also know that THAT is something whether you like it or
      not that has to be addressed as a young person

  <WSC#DGB004:0085:Z1>
      yes it is one of the quite remarkable er achievements of
      independent singapore

  <WSC#DGB004:0090:Z1>
      keep in mind they only got their independence from britain in
      fifty nine and from malaysia in sixty five and <O>voc</O> when
      the british left <O>voc</O> only twelve to fifteen per cent of
      the population was literate AT ALL

  <WSC#DGB004:0095:Z1>
      now it would be totally literate population WITH great emphasis
      on the acquisition of skills and literacy and numeracy and so on

  <WSC#DGB004:0100:Z1>
      <{><[>lee</[> wanted to get away from a labour intensive <,> er
      economy to a brains intensive economy and he's done it

  <WSC#DGB004:0105:HS>
      <[>how do <.>you</.></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0110:HS>
      mm

  <WSC#DGB004:0115:HS>
      how do you turn those literacy figures around so fast

  <WSC#DGB004:0120:HS>
      <{><[>do you</[> have to be quite tough minded and harsh

  <WSC#DGB004:0125:Z1>
      <[><.>well</.></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0130:Z1>
      i don't know that it's a very harsh society really

  <WSC#DGB004:0135:Z1>
      the schools are perhaps <,> <drawls>more</drawls> disciplined
      and authoritarian than ours but singapore children don't seem
      wildly unhappy <laughs>to the casual eye</laughs>

  <WSC#DGB004:0140:HS>
      so it's something that they have there as well

  <WSC#DGB004:0145:HS>
      what can we learn from their success or is their success in a
      way irrelevant to OUR lifestyle and OUR attitudes

  <WSC#DGB004:0150:Z1>
      no i think we can learn a great deal

  <WSC#DGB004:0155:Z1>
      keep in mind that when i first went to singapore thirty years
      ago they had leprous beggars in the streets and most of the
      houses didn't have running water in old chinatown and so on and
      er <O>voc</O> there was wall to wall slums

  <WSC#DGB004:0160:Z1>
      now <&>3:00</&> everybody's um housed properly they certainly
      have running water and so on er <O>voc</O> and <,> ONE of the
      reasons for that i think is er very CLEAR sighted government er
      and economic policy

  <WSC#DGB004:0165:Z1>
      er WE debate the virtues or otherwise of intervention

  <WSC#DGB004:0170:Z1>
      um the <?>p a p</?> government in singapore has certainly
      regarded one of their roles as being to direct the economy to
      encourage investment from outside to make er <,,> decisions
      about the TYPE of economy they want to encourage for instance er
      in the nineteen sixties they DOUBLED at a stroke the minimum
      wage because lee didn't want to persist with high um labour
      intensive <.>int</.> industries

  <WSC#DGB004:0175:Z1>
      he wanted to FORCE employers to move across to <.>cap</.>
      capital intensive industries that sort of thing

  <WSC#DGB004:0180:HS>
      so it's an enormous social experiment that's worked or social
      <laughs>laboratory if you want</laughs> <latch> <&>4:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB004:0185:Z1>
      well yes i mean there's some people would say <.>th</.> that the
      cost has been too high

  <WSC#DGB004:0190:Z1>
      some people would argue that there's been a <,> a death of the
      human spirit or an erosion of freedoms or whatever in singapore
      but keep in mind that lee kwan yew has NEVER got less than THREE
      quarters of the popular vote at ONE election after another and
      he's sometimes got up to eighty five percent of popular vote

  <WSC#DGB004:0195:Z1>
      WE haven't had a government HERE elected by more than fifty per
      cent of the populace since nineteen fifty one so he must be
      doing SOMETHING right something of which his people approved

  <WSC#DGB004:0200:HS>
      what about the critics who say it's a police state

  <WSC#DGB004:0205:HS>
      can't drop a cigarette butt on the foot path without being LEAPT
      on and all that sort <laughs>of thing</laughs> <latch>

  <WSC#DGB004:0210:Z1>
      well <.>certain</.> certainly it has specialised in forms of
      discipline er social discipline with which we are unfamiliar

  <WSC#DGB004:0215:Z1>
      er it might i think to a free spirit like yourself seem in the
      long run <.>a</.> a place you didn't wish to live

  <WSC#DGB004:0220:Z1>
      there are continuous government exhortations to you know SMILE
      at <&>5:00</&> tourists to FLUSH the loos in public places and
      things like that but keep in mind that it <.>WOULD</.> it WAS
      dirty grimy um poverty stricken and now it is clean and green
      and efficient and perhaps er human beings just simply do need a
      bit more OVERT discipline than we are used to or than we find
      <.>c</.> er we're comfortable living with

  <WSC#DGB004:0225:HS>
      could you impose those things on us <,>

  <WSC#DGB004:0230:HS>
      i mean they say here the courts can't even collect the fines
      that ARE imposed <,>

  <WSC#DGB004:0235:HS>
      could you actually START <,> riding the population really HARD
      TO FLUSH THE LAVATORY and be tidy?

  <WSC#DGB004:0240:Z1>
      <O>laughs</O> i think we'd have to have a full scale
      restructuring of our <,,> our education system probably to start
      with

  <WSC#DGB004:0245:Z1>
      i mean i think the glories of our education system are not to be
      <&>6:00</&> um scoffed at

  <WSC#DGB004:0250:Z1>
      we DO produce <,> nice welladjusted er children

  <WSC#DGB004:0255:Z1>
      we produce free spirits

  <WSC#DGB004:0260:Z1>
      we produce a lot of creativity and drive er but we have in my
      lifetime anyway er stressed er <,> <O>tut</O> <.>the</.> the
      virtues of free expression and so on have we not to perhaps the
      detriment of discipline with a capital d

  <WSC#DGB004:0265:HS>
      well it's certainly changed even since my day you know the way
      young people are and their rights <{><[>being</[> paramount
      rather than the responsibilities

  <WSC#DGB004:0270:Z1>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0275:Z1>
      yes

  <WSC#DGB004:0280:HS>
      say some crusty middle aged people

  <WSC#DGB004:0285:Z1>
      mm

  <WSC#DGB004:0290:HS>
      um <latch>

  <WSC#DGB004:0295:Z1>
      keep in mind too that singapore did er get born in difficulty if
      you like

  <WSC#DGB004:0300:Z1>
      <.>the</.> lee er had a fight to the death in his view with the
      communists

  <WSC#DGB004:0305:Z1>
      he was determined that communism WOULDN'T take over singapore
      that it would remain a free port and so on and so forth

  <WSC#DGB004:0310:Z1>
      he does <,> um talk in terms of struggle

  <WSC#DGB004:0315:Z1>
      to say that <&>7:00</&> he runs a police state is <.>a</.> an
      OVERstatement in my view

  <WSC#DGB004:0320:Z1>
      he <.>has</.> it is true a handful of political prisoners but
      ONLY a handful

  <WSC#DGB004:0325:Z1>
      he has it is true a lot of rules and regulations governing
      people's lives and whether they should sit in the streets er but
      he also as i say has a huge amount of popular support from the
      people and approval of what he's done and is doing

  <WSC#DGB004:0330:HS>
      tell us something about home mortgages

  <WSC#DGB004:0335:HS>
      is it true there aren't any mortgages someone wants to know

  <WSC#DGB004:0340:Z1>
      i've never heard <laughs>that

  <WSC#DGB004:0345:Z1>
      <{><[><.>i</.> i just don't see</[> why not</laughs>

  <WSC#DGB004:0350:HS>
      <[>no well that must <.>be</.></[></{> <,> just an aside <latch>

  <WSC#DGB004:0355:Z1>
      it is true that they have encouraged people to OWN their own
      flats and properties and one of the ways you can buy your
      housing corporation flat is by putting some of your compulsorily
      saved earnings er towards that flat

  <WSC#DGB004:0360:Z1>
      they have <.>a</.> a provident fund that all er wage and salary
      earners must contribute to for their old age <&>8:00</&> and er
      that has of course given the state a VAST <,> little kitty of
      capital er with which to develop the state over the past thirty
      years

  <WSC#DGB004:0365:HS>
      so would you advocate some reform of our education system that
      started to inculcate these disciplines <,> or the acceptance of
      discipline toward the greater good of the greatest number

  <WSC#DGB004:0370:Z1>
      i think that <,> we ARE seeing from doctor lockwood smith just
      recently <drawls><.>a</.> a recognition</drawls> that students
      should be <,> compelled if you like to study mathematics and
      english and science for longer so that you don't have thirteen
      and fourteen year olds deciding that they've had enough of er
      <.>these</.> so we are moving i think to <.>a</.> to a
      recognition that there should be <.>a</.> a CORE curriculum to
      which ALL children are subject <,> that if we DON'T have a
      literate and numerate society then we're <&>9:00</&> going to
      retreat into a peasant lifestyle very rapidly in my view

  <WSC#DGB004:0375:HS>
      and how often does the rattan get applied to the singaporean
      back

  <WSC#DGB004:0380:Z1>
      <laughs>i don't know but i can't imagine that</laughs> it's very
      often

  <WSC#DGB004:0385:Z1>
      um it's presumably er reserved for quote unquote serious crimes
      such as drugrunning and keep in mind that malaysia uses the
      rattan for like purposes as well

  <WSC#DGB004:0390:HS>
      right

  <WSC#DGB004:0395:HS>
      professor clark thank you for that background

  <WSC#DGB004:0400:Z1>
      not at <{><[><.>all</.></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0405:HS>
      <[>lots</[></{> to think about <{><[><laughs>bye bye</laughs></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0410:Z1>
      <[>good</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0415:Z1>
      <laughs>see you</laughs> <{><[>bye</[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0420:HS>
      <[>bye</[></{> <&>9:27</&> <&>adverts</&> <&>9:37</&>

  <WSC#DGB004:0425:HS>
      two z b twenty seven past eleven's the time

  <WSC#DGB004:0430:HS>
      dave good morning <,> dave?

  <WSC#DGB004:0435:Z2>
      oh

  <WSC#DGB004:0440:HS>
      ha <{><[>ha ha</[> good morning

  <WSC#DGB004:0445:Z2>
      <[>good morning</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0450:Z2>
      er yes

  <WSC#DGB004:0455:Z2>
      i'm ringing in regards to um these people who are sort of <,> um
      complaining about people <.>go</.> going er duck shooting

  <WSC#DGB004:0460:HS>
      <O>voc</O> yes

  <WSC#DGB004:0465:Z2>
      um <,> you know in <.>the</.> <.>the</.> these times we've got
      <?>to</?> try and um get some sort of food for <&>10:00</&> our
      families <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGB004:0470:Z2>
      um i'm just going back to er the depression period when er
      people had to try and get some <.>sport</.> some form of food
      and they used to go either rabbit shooting duck shooting <,> um
      <softly>you know</softly>

  <WSC#DGB004:0475:HS>
      you don't think the animal rights activists have a point

  <WSC#DGB004:0480:Z2>
      no

  <WSC#DGB004:0485:HS>
      about ducks?

  <WSC#DGB004:0490:Z2>
      about any sort <.>of</.> sort of wild animals that are
      introduced into the country

  <WSC#DGB004:0495:HS>
      would you eat more rabbit than duck

  <WSC#DGB004:0500:Z2>
      <drawls>well</drawls> i don't eat either but i used to

  <WSC#DGB004:0505:HS>
      well rabbits are a nuisance aren't they

  <WSC#DGB004:0510:HS>
      ducks aren't

  <WSC#DGB004:0515:Z2>
      well <.>the</.> <laughs>you got plenty of them</laughs>

  <WSC#DGB004:0520:HS>
      plenty of <{><[>ducks</[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0525:Z2>
      <[><.>they</.></[></{> they seem to know when to <.>go</.> to go
      to the zoo anyway

  <WSC#DGB004:0530:HS>
      what the ducks

  <WSC#DGB004:0535:Z2>
      the ducks when it's duck season <{><[>you know</[> <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGB004:0540:HS>
      <[><O>snorts</O></[></{> <,> good for them <,> good for them

  <WSC#DGB004:0545:HS>
      well <O>exhales</O> i mean do people go out duck shooting for
      the VITAL VITAL supplies of protein that they need or do they go
      out for the sheer pleasure of <&>11:00</&> shooting the head off
      a feathered friend

  <WSC#DGB004:0550:Z2>
      well <.>it's</.> <.>it's</.> better <.>the</.> they shoot
      <laughs>the duck than to er</laughs> you know do it to somebody
      else <{><[><?>i suppose</?></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0555:HS>
      <[>yeah but</[></{> some of them are messy they miss and the
      things are full of shot anyway

  <WSC#DGB004:0560:HS>
      <{1><[1>well</[1> you want to hear about the goose i bought <&>pronounced
      brought</&> for christmas

  <WSC#DGB004:0565:HS>
      OH don't start me

  <WSC#DGB004:0570:HS>
      <{2><[2><,> it had been run over</[2>

  <WSC#DGB004:0575:Z2>
      <[1>well</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB004:0580:Z2>
      <[2>yeah well see you go <.>out</.> <.>you</.></[2></{2> see you
      went out and sort of <{><[>bought <.>it</.></[> <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGB004:0585:HS>
      <[>I DIDN'T GO OUT</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0590:HS>
      i bought it in a plastic bag and <{><[>hopefully it had died of
      old age</[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0595:Z2>
      <[>yeah that's right <.>you</.> you got someone</[></{> else to
      do it <{><[>for you <O>laughs</O></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0600:HS>
      <[>imagine my surprise</[></{> when i discovered that i think it
      had been run over

  <WSC#DGB004:0605:Z2>
      mm

  <WSC#DGB004:0610:HS>
      judging by the things that were sticking out through the SKIN

  <WSC#DGB004:0615:HS>
      anyway we won't dwell on that because i'm off <{1><[1>animal
      stories

  <WSC#DGB004:0620:HS>
      as you know</[1> <quickly>i don't <.>actually</.> twenty years
      of broadcasting refuse to talk about cruelty to animals because
      it upsets me too much but</quickly> the duck thing is
      interesting because here <O>inhales</O> is an introduced thing
      <?><.>of</.></?> animal <{2><[2>feathery</[2> feathery friend of
      which there are a great many

  <WSC#DGB004:0625:HS>
      on the other hand when i saw those people clutching the injured
      swan my heart broke

  <WSC#DGB004:0630:HS>
      i mean you see their point of view <{3><[3><.>and</.></[3>

  <WSC#DGB004:0635:Z2>
      <[1>right okay <.>then</.></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB004:0640:Z2>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB004:0645:Z2>
      <[3><O>laughs</O> have</[3></{3> you ever been attacked by a
      swan <{><[><O>laughs</O></[> <&>12:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB004:0650:HS>
      <[>well oh for goodness sake</[></{> you're a great big grown up
      boy

  <WSC#DGB004:0655:HS>
      so what if a swan comes <{><[>at you

  <WSC#DGB004:0660:HS>
      you're bigger than the swan</[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0665:Z2>
      <[>no no no <.>what</.> <.>my</.> my son</[></{> was attacked
      <.>wh</.> <O>voc</O> by <.>a</.> er sort of <.>a</.> you know
      <{><[>couple of <.>th</.></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0670:HS>
      <[>well you should have</[></{> kept him away from the swan

  <WSC#DGB004:0675:Z2>
      <O>laughs</O> well he was FEEDING them <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGB004:0680:HS>
      well animals have rights too and swans are notoriously bad
      tempered like talkback people and you <{><[>know</[> you just
      should be warned

  <WSC#DGB004:0685:Z2>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0690:Z2>
      right <{><[>okay</[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0695:HS>
      <[>all right</[></{> <,> all right

  <WSC#DGB004:0700:HS>
      now listen i think that animals have taken a savage beating in
      the last century and should be left alone to get on with their
      lives

  <WSC#DGB004:0705:Z2>
      <laughs>right okay</laughs>

  <WSC#DGB004:0710:Z2>
      now <{><[>another one <.>is</.></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0715:HS>
      <[>and not have</[></{> david attenborough STICKING CAMERAS UP
      THEIR FURRY BACKSIDES

  <WSC#DGB004:0720:Z2>
      well yes <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGB004:0725:HS>
      well that's cruel because he's a wonderful man <{><[>but</[> i
      just <,> i don't like that programme the trials of life

  <WSC#DGB004:0730:HS>
      i don't watch it

  <WSC#DGB004:0735:HS>
      the moment anything RED comes on the screen i leave the room
      don't you

  <WSC#DGB004:0740:Z2>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB004:0745:Z2>
      well <{><[>yeah <O>voc</O> <.>i</.></[>

  <WSC#DGB004:0750:HS>
      <[><O>voc</O></[></{> let's get the monkeys ripping each other
      up <O>voc</O> why not

  <WSC#DGB004:0755:Z2>
      right okay <&>12:47</&>
</I>
