<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:05</&>
  

  <WSC#DGB022:0005:CR>
      oh absolutely an impossibility for low income families

  <WSC#DGB022:0010:CR>
      i mean er <.>th</.> <.>y</.> there's no way in the world that
      they can save the deposit gap

  <WSC#DGB022:0015:CR>
      we've er lost schemes such as home start and um <.>y</.> you
      just can't get that deposit together now even if they could meet
      the er <.>r</.> repayments and that's highly unlikely even with
      er interest rates coming down so er what has been the dream for
      many new zealanders of owning their own home is er fast fading
      and er increasingly people will be reliant lower income people
      will be reliant on the rental market

  <WSC#DGB022:0020:CR>
      now that's at a time when in fact er the state housing rental
      market is looking very shaky

  <WSC#DGB022:0025:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine the telephone number

  <WSC#DGB022:0030:HB>
      callum good morning <,>

  <WSC#DGB022:0035:HB>
      you there callum <,>

  <WSC#DGB022:0040:HB>
      okay flag you mate <drawls>er</drawls> <&>1:00</&> <O>voc</O>
      <,>

  <WSC#DGB022:0045:HB>
      oh is he

  <WSC#DGB022:0050:HB>
      right three is callum

  <WSC#DGB022:0055:Z1>
      er yes good morning tim

  <WSC#DGB022:0060:Z1>
      good morning major

  <WSC#DGB022:0065:Z1>
      er i'd like to compliment you on what you are saying

  <WSC#DGB022:0070:Z1>
      now the experience <,> i can muster up is that my nephew at the
      age of about forty five is just qualified through a theological
      school and will get his er bachelor of divinity next year

  <WSC#DGB022:0075:Z1>
      now the other friend is the er legal representative for the
      anglican diocese of new zealand and also chancellor of the
      canterbury er cathedral <&>pronounced cathredral</&> and those
      two people before well the er chancellor is <&>2:00</&> still in
      the legal business and he sees what's going on and my nephew he
      as a part of his training was er er prison visiting and er doing
      all sorts of er theological work before he qualified and you are
      exactly correct in what you say and my theory is that the prime
      minister does just does not want to know about this

  <WSC#DGB022:0080:Z1>
      it's a fact but he just doesn't want to know about it

  <WSC#DGB022:0085:CR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGB022:0090:Z1>
      and neither does his <.>c</.> his er cabinet or caucus

  <WSC#DGB022:0095:CR>
      well well thank you callum

  <WSC#DGB022:0100:CR>
      <.>i</.> it's er it certainly is concerning when you're looking
      at er some of what is happening to low income vulnerable new
      zealanders

  <WSC#DGB022:0105:CR>
      i believe that a society is judged by how it treats its most
      vulnerable member and er when you lay that yardstick against er
      new zealand society at the present then er there's got to be a
      lot of <&>3:00</&> questions about the policies that we're
      actually following

  <WSC#DGB022:0110:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine

  <WSC#DGB022:0115:HB>
      it's er coming up to a quarter to eleven er <&>3:10</&> <&>one
      minute forty seconds of advertisements not transcribed</&>
      <&>4:50</&>

  <WSC#DGB022:0120:HB>
      one on one around new zealand

  <WSC#DGB022:0125:HB>
      my name is tim bickerstaff

  <WSC#DGB022:0130:HB>
      our guest in the studio this morning is major campbell roberts

  <WSC#DGB022:0135:HB>
      we're <.>l</.> of the salvation army looking at the crisis that
      is occurring in new zealand

  <WSC#DGB022:0140:HB>
      er as far as housing is concerned is it going to get worse
      <&>5:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB022:0145:CR>
      <O>tut</O> i believe it is going to get worse unfortunately
      because er <.>th</.> the policy that <.>s</.> we're following
      just cannot er house people substantially and er it will for low
      income new zealanders get worse

  <WSC#DGB022:0150:HB>
      well tell me this

  <WSC#DGB022:0155:HB>
      um er how do we compare new zealand with other say developed
      <unclear>word</unclear> countries

  <WSC#DGB022:0160:CR>
      well you see this is the tragedy

  <WSC#DGB022:0165:CR>
      we have been <,> very comparable

  <WSC#DGB022:0170:CR>
      i mean <O>voc</O> our housing has been much better than most
      other countries in the world

  <WSC#DGB022:0175:CR>
      people have been well housed in new zealand

  <WSC#DGB022:0180:CR>
      we don't have the situations of the new yorks of people er
      living on the streets in cardboard boxes for the whole of their
      lives

  <WSC#DGB022:0185:CR>
      um we don't have those problems and we haven't had those
      problems in in new zealand but what we are now introducing is a
      policy which those countries have been following um and which
      has ended up in massive levels of homelessness

  <WSC#DGB022:0190:CR>
      now that's that's the worry that er what we have <&>6:00</&>
      known as a good situation in terms of being well housed in new
      zealand is on the change

  <WSC#DGB022:0195:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine the telephone number

  <WSC#DGB022:0200:HB>
      jo good morning

  <WSC#DGB022:0205:Z2>
      good morning tim and major roberts

  <WSC#DGB022:0210:Z2>
      <{><[>um</[>

  <WSC#DGB022:0215:CR>
      <[>hello</[></{> jo

  <WSC#DGB022:0220:Z2>
      yes um major roberts has given a very accurate account of what's
      happening and it's obvious this government has embarked on a
      scheme to rid the state houses of tenants and by that i mean um
      people already residing in housing corp homes can barely meet
      the costs of the increases in rents as it is and the needy
      people who have been on the waiting lists cannot meet the
      expenses to move into a house now

  <WSC#DGB022:0225:Z2>
      it would really be between eight hundred and a thousand dollars
      just to er move in and this consists of rent in advance and a
      bond and if you're living somewhere else expenses for
      <&>7:00</&> shifting plus if you have a telephone and not many
      have these days and power er there's a bond required for that
      also and the people um er you know just cannot afford to move
      into them and some of the empty houses have been er filling up
      but they are filling up with people who er have money and can
      afford it

  <WSC#DGB022:0230:Z2>
      we're seeing a different type of tenant whereas before like
      campbell was saying um it was done on a point system where the
      very neediest people with the biggest need got the the um
      housing and i feel that these policies also do split the um er
      people like that earlier caller <&>8:00</&> you know people are
      looking at er why aren't i getting this but you know you do have
      to give these er things to the very desperate and at the moment
      the very desperate are not receiving um er the assistance that
      they used to and next july when the landlords get the <unclear>word</unclear>
      of the housing situation will be even more er diabolical than it
      is already and the the the government have listed er state
      houses with the land agents and they're selling off blocks of
      state houses as urgent government surplus sales and i think this
      is absolutely unacceptable and on the other side of the coin er
      the spin off from poor housing will be poor health

  <WSC#DGB022:0235:Z2>
      we're seeing things that haven't been here since the nineteen
      thirties like um <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DGB022:0240:HB>
      <[>that's basically</[></{> <&>9:00</&> what er what you're
      saying major campbell wasn't it <latch>

  <WSC#DGB022:0245:CR>
      mm <{><[><O>tut</O> that's</[> right and er you know <.>th</.>
      there is going to be these changes you're quite right jo in
      terms of for people who are on those low incomes

  <WSC#DGB022:0250:HB>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB022:0255:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine

  <WSC#DGB022:0260:HB>
      er neil good morning

  <WSC#DGB022:0265:Z3>
      good morning major <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DGB022:0270:CR>
      <[>hello</[></{> neil

  <WSC#DGB022:0275:Z3>
      i'm in the position i can actually raise deposit on my on my <,>
      housing unit

  <WSC#DGB022:0280:CR>
      right

  <WSC#DGB022:0285:Z3>
      and i actually wrote to the housing corporation and asked them
      what they wanted for a place and he said about seventy thousand
      and they wanted ten percent which i which i could raise by my
      relatives

  <WSC#DGB022:0290:CR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGB022:0295:Z3>
      then i found out if i took out i can't take out a mortgage
      because my repayments must exceed a third of my income

  <WSC#DGB022:0300:Z3>
      i'm only on the pension

  <WSC#DGB022:0305:CR>
      right <{><[>right</[>

  <WSC#DGB022:0310:Z3>
      <[>so</[></{> my income would then be round about roughly
      <drawls>fifty</drawls> eight dollars i should imagine and so i
      can't i can't do that i can't get my house but they've quite
      cheerfully under this new scheme put my rent up to ninety five
      dollars

  <WSC#DGB022:0315:CR>
      right yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGB022:0320:Z3>
      the new scheme

  <WSC#DGB022:0325:Z3>
      now there's another <&>10:00</&> alternative

  <WSC#DGB022:0330:Z3>
      i could actually move a friend in i've got enough room to move a
      friend in but if i move in a friend in <O>coughs</O> my living
      alone allowance gets cut and i also probably come off a single
      pension i get classified as married or if i take some um
      flatmates in <.>o</.> of the same sex i'm i'm <.>th</.> then
      classified as as income an income tax can can get me so whatever
      way i turn i'm in a minefield i can't escape from

  <WSC#DGB022:0335:CR>
      yeah i feel very sorry for you neil in that situation and i
      think that that's the you you actually illustrate what is true
      for a lot of people that that's the sort of situation

  <WSC#DGB022:0340:CR>
      they're trying to actually help themselves as you are trying to
      er er purchase your own place but it's it's just not possible is
      it

  <WSC#DGB022:0345:Z3>
      <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DGB022:0350:HB>
      all right thanks very much for your call er neil

  <WSC#DGB022:0355:Z3>
      right thank you <latch>

  <WSC#DGB022:0360:HB>
      we'll take a break

  <WSC#DGB022:0365:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine to talk with major campbell
      roberts <&>10:55</&> <&>one minute forty seconds of
      advertisements not transcribed</&> <&>12:35</&>

  <WSC#DGB022:0370:CR>
      a decent housing policy which actually as <.>w</.> i think most
      new zealanders don't want people to be badly housed in new
      zealand

  <WSC#DGB022:0375:CR>
      there's no way that we want to um move into the situations of
      overseas cities think most new zealanders and one of the things
      that er that <.>a</.> that always encourages me is that wherever
      you talk to people people at all spectrums of new zealand
      society DO want people well housed

  <WSC#DGB022:0380:CR>
      they are <&>13:00</&> proud of the state housing system and er i
      think that's what we want from the government

  <WSC#DGB022:0385:CR>
      we want them to deliver on a housing policy which will enable
      people to live in dignity and um will make sure that er
      particularly vulnerable women and children um get well cared for
      and that that safety net is there and that's what state housing
      has done

  <WSC#DGB022:0390:HB>
      <O>tut</O> robert good morning

  <WSC#DGB022:0395:Z4>
      good morning

  <WSC#DGB022:0400:CR>
      morning robert

  <WSC#DGB022:0405:Z4>
      <.>i</.> i'd er i'd like to comment on er mister roberts um i
      suppose description <.>o</.> of the current housing policy

  <WSC#DGB022:0410:Z4>
      er i'm the coordinator of the wellington housing trust

  <WSC#DGB022:0415:Z4>
      er we've been providing er housing assistance to low income
      people for about ten years and the thing i'd like to to talk
      about a bit is er i think the the dilution of responsibility er
      in government departments in handling housing

  <WSC#DGB022:0420:Z4>
      er formerly the housing corporation seemed to have be
      responsible for housing people

  <WSC#DGB022:0425:Z4>
      um now it's it's <&>14:00</&> been devolved into three different
      organisations the housing ministry housing new zealand and the
      community funding agency um <.>a</.> and as such er
      organisations like ours find it very difficult to actually get
      support and to continue support for providing housing to low
      income people and i think this this is an effect that that's
      being felt er very strongly in the community in terms of
      actually getting support for continuing er housing needs or
      adjusting the housing needs and er further to that that
      organisations like ours are being forced to reduce or even
      eliminate housing services as as a result of er reduced
      government services and and the difficulty of actually
      engendering more

  <WSC#DGB022:0430:CR>
      robert you'd be er er housing er people on low incomes and sort
      of vulnerable families

  <WSC#DGB022:0435:Z4>
      that's right

  <WSC#DGB022:0440:Z4>
      um we we also have um we also cater to people who are not
      strictly in the government guidelines for example ex prisoners
      er used to be handled by the <.>gover</.> er by <&>15:00</&>
      department of justice er those funds have been slashed
      considerably um street kids and just people ex psychiatric
      patients often that aren't keyed in to normal government
      services we handle people like that and because it's generic
      there's no specific contract that we can have with places like
      the community funding agencies and we're concerned that these
      people are being left and marginalised

  <WSC#DGB022:0445:CR>
      right so there's nowhere really for you to go now is there
      because each of those housing agencies has a specific
      responsibility

  <WSC#DGB022:0450:Z4>
      we've been trying for a year now er to try some sort of
      contracted service with the government without any success

  <WSC#DGB022:0455:Z4>
      er as of july first er all <.>o</.> all of our subsidies that
      we've been <.>redu</.> receiving from the housing corporation
      will vanish

  <WSC#DGB022:0460:CR>
      right

  <WSC#DGB022:0465:Z4>
      er

  <WSC#DGB022:0470:CR>
      and and there is no no extra provisions for you in that
      situation

  <WSC#DGB022:0475:Z4>
      not that we've been able to discover so but i i i appreciate er
      campbell's er i guess description and and bringing bringing the
      the <&>16:00</&> housing er situation to to the public to er to
      the radio audience

  <WSC#DGB022:0480:Z4>
      i think it's very valuable that it that it be kept up and i i
      suppose if there's a question i have to campbell it's <.>w</.>
      what can we do to make the government listen

  <WSC#DGB022:0485:Z4>
      there's been very little er there's been very little notice of
      community input into the policies

  <WSC#DGB022:0490:Z4>
      er we we make submissions to the housing restructuring bill and
      they're viewed by er backbenchers who have very little to do
      with the writing of of the housing bill itself and in fact we
      find that it er <.>th</.> er there have been at least a hundred
      and fifty submissions that i know of from community agencies and
      i saw absolutely <.>no</.> nothing reflected er in the rewriting
      of the housing bill that was finally passed

  <WSC#DGB022:0495:CR>
      <O>tut</O> yeah i think that's incredibly discouraging that er
      there has been a lot of voices in terms of <.>th</.> that
      questioning this policy and er in fact no notice has been taken
      of that at all

  <WSC#DGB022:0500:CR>
      i think all we can do is keep putting the pressure on

  <WSC#DGB022:0505:CR>
      i think certainly as it comes up to elections next year um we
      need to be asking all politicians for a <drawls>very</drawls>
      clear er definitions of what their housing policies are because
      i believe it's at the KEY of the delivery <&>pronounced livery</&>
      of er a just and equal er social situation in new zealand
      <&>17:17</&>
</I>
