<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side two</&>
  <&>12:54</&>
  

  <WSC#DGB038:0005:HM>
      hello bill

  <WSC#DGB038:0010:Z1>
      hello mike

  <WSC#DGB038:0015:HM>
      i'm sorry i shouldn't have put you on

  <WSC#DGB038:0020:HM>
      i got somebody else in front of you but you leapt in front
      <&>13:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0025:Z1>
      er very good

  <WSC#DGB038:0030:Z1>
      er i'm going to rarotonga in april and i've got the thing in
      front of me about tipping and it says there <reads>tipping is
      not practised or encouraged at all</reads>

  <WSC#DGB038:0035:HM>
      that's right

  <WSC#DGB038:0040:Z1>
      <reads>please do not offend by offering tips</reads>

  <WSC#DGB038:0045:HM>
      well that's the the reason for that is because the island people
      in rarotonga are so generous and courteous <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0050:Z1>
      yeah that's right <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0055:HM>
      and lovely with their time they don't need to be encouraged with
      financial reward to er to do a good job

  <WSC#DGB038:0060:Z1>
      now i've been over to england and er er <.>it</.> er oh years
      and years ago and of course they <.>w</.> <.>we</.> tipping was
      practised there to a large degree <,> taxi drivers <{><[>especially</[>
      and in australia a certain amount of it is done providing you
      get good service

  <WSC#DGB038:0065:HM>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0070:HM>
      the <.>difficult</.> well i mean <.>at</.> <.>at</.> this early
      stage it's probably fair enough isn't it in the sense that if
      you get exceptional service and <.>y</.> and and it's over and
      beyond the call of duty then maybe you say well this <.>w</.>
      this is worth a reward and i guess that's fair enough

  <WSC#DGB038:0075:HM>
      the <&>14:00</&> difficulty of it is is that if you introduce it
      if you welcome it then inevitably what happens is you find
      yourself in the american situation whereby EVERYbody expects a
      tip service or no service <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0080:Z1>
      service or no <{><[><.>s</.> service that's right</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0085:HM>
      <[>and all you're</[></{> all you're doing is lining their
      pockets to be ordinary and i mean why would you do that

  <WSC#DGB038:0090:Z1>
      no reason at all to <{><[>do that</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0095:HM>
      <[><?>so</?> exactly</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0100:HM>
      i think that service i mean it it is part of the job isn't it

  <WSC#DGB038:0105:HM>
      if you're a receptionist or you're a waiter or a porter or
      whatever and you serve people that's your JOB
      <with high pitched voice>isn't it</with high pitched voice>

  <WSC#DGB038:0110:Z1>
      exactly <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0115:HM>
      none of <.>the</.> i mean the <O>voc</O> you don't pay me any
      extra if i crack an extra joke this morning or say something
      particularly clever

  <WSC#DGB038:0120:HM>
      i'm paid to do my job and i do it every morning

  <WSC#DGB038:0125:HM>
      it's the same as same as applicable to every job isn't it

  <WSC#DGB038:0130:Z1>
      oh it is

  <WSC#DGB038:0135:Z1>
      <{><[><?>i</?></[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0140:HM>
      <[>and</[></{> i don't know why they're worried about it

  <WSC#DGB038:0145:HM>
      i don't even know why they er brought the subject up

  <WSC#DGB038:0150:HM>
      inevitably i think that er if we keep going the way we are we
      will find it in this country because we'll naturally follow on
      the coat tails of other countries

  <WSC#DGB038:0155:Z1>
      exactly

  <WSC#DGB038:0160:HM>
      but it's a custom that needs to be avoided i am sure

  <WSC#DGB038:0165:HM>
      where are you <{><[>staying</[> in rarotonga by the way

  <WSC#DGB038:0170:Z1>
      <[><?>yeah</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0175:Z1>
      er the edgewater <.>res</.> <{><[>resort</[> <&>15:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0180:HM>
      <[>very</[></{> nice place

  <WSC#DGB038:0185:HM>
      very good choice

  <WSC#DGB038:0190:HM>
      we <{><[>stayed</[> at the rarotongan and er that was a mistake
      and the other one is the pacific resort i think it is from
      memory but you'll enjoy the edgewater

  <WSC#DGB038:0195:HM>
      it's got all the good facilities nice beach and all of that sort
      of thing

  <WSC#DGB038:0200:Z1>
      <[><?>yep</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0205:Z1>
      <{><[>yeah i</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0210:HM>
      <[>you ever</[></{> been there before

  <WSC#DGB038:0215:Z1>
      no i've never been there before

  <WSC#DGB038:0220:HM>
      outstanding place

  <WSC#DGB038:0225:Z1>
      <drawls>yeah</drawls> well the travel agent said it was er the
      edgewater was the best one there

  <WSC#DGB038:0230:HM>
      yeah <.>the</.> the the three the rarotongan the edgewater and
      the pacific are are regarded as the sort of the main ones there
      but they they were running down the rarotongan when we were
      there because of the new hyatt or sheraton or whatever the big
      one is they're building there but you'll have a ball

  <WSC#DGB038:0235:HM>
      buy yourself a tee shirt

  <WSC#DGB038:0240:HM>
      they're got a local tee shirt industry and they make very
      creative tee shirts and when i was there they were only six
      bucks a tee shirt

  <WSC#DGB038:0245:Z1>
      oh that's good

  <WSC#DGB038:0250:HM>
      and er the fruit and vegetables are incredibly cheap

  <WSC#DGB038:0255:Z1>
      yeah

  <WSC#DGB038:0260:HM>
      the er the licence you got to get for your motor scooter

  <WSC#DGB038:0265:HM>
      you got to hire a motor scooter

  <WSC#DGB038:0270:HM>
      you're not going to hire a car are you

  <WSC#DGB038:0275:Z1>
      i don't know

  <WSC#DGB038:0280:Z1>
      i <{1><[1>haven't made up my mind</[1> on that <{2><[2>yet</[2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0285:HM>
      <[1>hire a motor <.>sc</.></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0290:HM>
      <[2>motor</[2></{2> scooter's a lot of fun a lot of fresh air
      <{><[>and</[> you're got to take a licence test

  <WSC#DGB038:0295:Z1>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0300:Z1>
      yeah <{><[>that's <.>right</.></[> <&>16:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0305:HM>
      <[>and the licence</[></{> test they'll er make you go round the
      block and the cop will follow you

  <WSC#DGB038:0310:HM>
      it's hilarious

  <WSC#DGB038:0315:Z1>
      <O>laughs</O> <laughs>it would be too</laughs> <{><[><O>laughs</O></[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0320:HM>
      <[>and it's one</[></{> of the great revenue generating
      exercises

  <WSC#DGB038:0325:HM>
      you know they really don't care whether you drive properly or
      not

  <WSC#DGB038:0330:HM>
      all they want's your two bucks

  <WSC#DGB038:0335:Z1>
      yeah that's right <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0340:HM>
      it's a wonderful place <{><[>rarotonga</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0345:Z1>
      <[>well</[></{> one book said two bucks and the other book said
      two dollars fifty

  <WSC#DGB038:0350:HM>
      well it was two dollars when i was there

  <WSC#DGB038:0355:HM>
      it may well have been updated since then <{1><[1>but <.>every</.></[1>
      everything's a bargain in rarotonga and er life seems so simple
      and er you can sit on the beach

  <WSC#DGB038:0360:HM>
      you know you drive along that road there

  <WSC#DGB038:0365:HM>
      there's just one road on the island go round and round and round
      and er in evening you can see the locals out there catching
      their dinner

  <WSC#DGB038:0370:HM>
      <{2><[2>catch some</[2> fish on the reef

  <WSC#DGB038:0375:HM>
      you <{3><[3>can</[3> go er snorkelling

  <WSC#DGB038:0380:HM>
      you know you can go up to knee deep and there are all these
      beautiful tropical fish there just swimming around you

  <WSC#DGB038:0385:HM>
      it's incredible place

  <WSC#DGB038:0390:Z1>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0395:Z1>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0400:Z1>
      <[3><?>yeah</?></[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGB038:0405:Z1>
      yeah <{1><[1>i'm looking forward</[1> <?>for it <{2><[2>all</?></[2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0410:HM>
      <[1>have a good time</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0415:HM>
      <[2>well</[2></{2> so you should be

  <WSC#DGB038:0420:HM>
      i'm envious now

  <WSC#DGB038:0425:HM>
      i shouldn't have started talking about it

  <WSC#DGB038:0430:HM>
      have a good trip mate

  <WSC#DGB038:0435:Z1>
      okay thanks very much mike

  <WSC#DGB038:0440:HM>
      all the best <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0445:Z1>
      good <{><[>ta</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0450:HM>
      <[>it's</[></{> one of the great tourist destinations rarotonga

  <WSC#DGB038:0455:HM>
      it's er it remains to this day under commercialised which
      <&>17:00</&> i've always found a particularly attractive aspect
      of er going on holidays

  <WSC#DGB038:0460:HM>
      if you go to er various islands around the pacific they're
      awfully commercialised nowadays and the prices go through the
      roof and it's all very er plastic and superficial but rarotonga
      is is is incredibly unsuperficial

  <WSC#DGB038:0465:HM>
      really it's very unsophisticated in many ways <&>17:18</&> <&>one
      minute five seconds not transcribed as HM's monologue continues</&>
      <&>18:23</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0470:HM>
      there's that thing about human nature isn't there that the grass
      is always greener on the other side of the fence and it's not
      always true

  <WSC#DGB038:0475:HM>
      hello anne

  <WSC#DGB038:0480:HM>
      <{><[>you've been very patient

  <WSC#DGB038:0485:HM>
      i've put put all these people on in front of you</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0490:Z2>
      <[><?>that's not fair</?>

  <WSC#DGB038:0495:Z2>
      oh that's all right mike

  <WSC#DGB038:0500:Z2>
      it was <.>ve</.></[></{> very nice listening to you talking
      anyway as you <.>t</.>

  <WSC#DGB038:0505:Z2>
      oh you've taken the words out of my mouth actually

  <WSC#DGB038:0510:Z2>
      i was just going to say the grass on the other side is always
      greener

  <WSC#DGB038:0515:HM>
      it is isn't it

  <WSC#DGB038:0520:Z2>
      um this morning actually i <.>i</.> i must confess i wasn't
      going to ring you first

  <WSC#DGB038:0525:Z2>
      i was trying to get through to the christchurch council
      botanical gardens and after thirty five minutes of trying and
      nonstop engaged signals um and time limited i thought well i'll
      talk to you <&>19:00</&> about what i'm concerned about and it
      was the teddy bears' picnic yesterday <{1><[1>and i</[1> i <.>h</.>
      <?>a</?> bouquet to all the organisation excellent even the
      powers that be that turned on the weather but for all of us
      grandmas mums dads who toddled along to the paddling pool some
      with lilos in their swimming togs the <.>m</.> the grounds were
      beautiful

  <WSC#DGB038:0530:Z2>
      no water absolutely no water <{2><[2>in the</[2> paddling pond
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0535:HM>
      <[1>right</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0540:HM>
      <[2>where</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0545:HM>
      in the pool? <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0550:Z2>
      yes only two weeks of summer holidays to go and no water in
      there

  <WSC#DGB038:0555:Z2>
      i haven't been there this year so i can't say whether it's been
      filled and drained but for a big event like this yesterday

  <WSC#DGB038:0560:HM>
      how bizarre

  <WSC#DGB038:0565:Z2>
      it was absolutely heartbreaking <{><[><?>and <.>the</.></?></[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0570:HM>
      <[>did they</[></{> use the pool for anything

  <WSC#DGB038:0575:Z2>
      no it just said <{1><[1>out of order

  <WSC#DGB038:0580:Z2>
      no</[1> no no it just said out of order and <{2><[2>of course
      yes so <?>would you</?> accept that</[2> without the kids <.>cr</.>
      you know you have an ice block and you say oh well it's out of
      order and and that but i was quite concerned

  <WSC#DGB038:0585:Z2>
      on walking back through <&>20:00</&> <O>inhales</O> the main
      park again behind the um <O>tut</O> stage there's the victoria
      lake there which was considerably churned up and muddy with the
      pirates' display and we rescued a little tot about fourteen
      months who had just toddled straight out into that muddy deep
      water and it isn't shallow

  <WSC#DGB038:0590:HM>
      <[1>no activities in there or</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0595:HM>
      <[2>out of order?

  <WSC#DGB038:0600:HM>
      oh maybe they had a crack in there or something</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0605:HM>
      yeah

  <WSC#DGB038:0610:Z2>
      you go down just about nearly up to neck deep of <{><[>this</[>
      little one <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0615:HM>
      <[><?>that's right</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0620:HM>
      where where was er his parents

  <WSC#DGB038:0625:HM>
      where WERE his <{><[>parents</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0630:HM>
      asleep

  <WSC#DGB038:0635:Z2>
      <[>asleep</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0640:Z2>
      yes

  <WSC#DGB038:0645:HM>
      oh <{><[>yes</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0650:Z2>
      <[>and</[></{> there were a lot of parents asleep

  <WSC#DGB038:0655:Z2>
      i mean but <O>voc</O> <.>g</.> falling asleep i know it's back
      to supervision but falling asleep by this dirty muddy water

  <WSC#DGB038:0660:Z2>
      you couldn't even see it was so thick and then a lot of other
      children were playing there as well and i just felt that my
      concern that these children were playing in this filthy muddy
      water and the money that has been spent on the botanical grounds
      i would like to have known an answer but as i say <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>
      <&>21:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0665:HM>
      <[>well <.>ka</.></[></{> kathleen'll get on to <{1><[1>it

  <WSC#DGB038:0670:HM>
      she'll</[1> she'll break through <{2><[2>the red tape

  <WSC#DGB038:0675:HM>
      fear not</[2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0680:Z2>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0685:Z2>
      <[2>well that's what i thought

  <WSC#DGB038:0690:Z2>
      i</[2></{2> tried the botanical gardens first cos i would have
      liked <{1><[1>to have</[1> come to you and to voice my concern
      and said right i HAVE done something <{2><[2>about it but i
      haven't got through yeah but <.>it</.></[2> but it's quite sad
      isn't it that a big event like this two weeks of school holidays
      no water to paddle in <{3><[3><unclear>word</unclear></[3>

  <WSC#DGB038:0695:HM>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0700:HM>
      <[2>well good on you

  <WSC#DGB038:0705:HM>
      no at least the thought the thought was there

  <WSC#DGB038:0710:HM>
      the thought was there and that's what counts</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0715:HM>
      <[3><?>that's on</[3></{3> the yeah</?> out of order <{1><[1>indicates</[1>
      a crack or something wrong with the <{2><[2>facility doesn't it</[2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0720:Z2>
      <[1>mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0725:Z2>
      <[2><drawls>well</drawls> i hope</[2></{2> not

  <WSC#DGB038:0730:Z2>
      it's all been resurfaced <{><[>so</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0735:HM>
      <[>sure</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0740:HM>
      i was there a week ago and <.>i</.> i'm sure that it was a sunny
      day and there were a <{1><[1>zillion people</[1> there and i'm
      almost almost certain there was water <{2><[2>in it</[2> at the
      time

  <WSC#DGB038:0745:HM>
      <{3><[3>certainly</[3> there were kids in the pool <{4><[4>and
      if there was no water they were wasting their time weren't they</[4>

  <WSC#DGB038:0750:Z2>
      <[1>was there water</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0755:Z2>
      <[2>oh</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0760:Z2>
      <[3>yes</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGB038:0765:Z2>
      <[4>oh yeah people were paddling</[4></{4> yeah wandering around
      in it but no water at all in in either of them so <{><[><unclear>word</unclear>
      interesting</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0770:HM>
      <[>oh well how how</[></{> strange

  <WSC#DGB038:0775:HM>
      yeah yeah we'll <{><[>check it out

  <WSC#DGB038:0780:HM>
      kathleen's on to it

  <WSC#DGB038:0785:HM>
      fear not</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0790:HM>
      bye bye <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0795:Z2>
      <[>yep thank you mike yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:0800:Z2>
      thank you bye bye <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:0805:HM>
      it's nine twenty nine

  <WSC#DGB038:0810:HM>
      your calls welcome this morning

  <WSC#DGB038:0815:HM>
      three four oh ten ninety eight <&>21:48</&> <&>four minutes
      fifty six seconds of HM's monologue plus news and weather
      broadcasts and commercials not transcribed</&> <&>26:44</&>

  <WSC#DGB038:0820:HM>
      the answer to the pool is er that they painted it

  <WSC#DGB038:0825:HM>
      it was too slippery so they er had a lot of complaints about
      children falling over so for the er picnic yesterday they
      emptied it so noone would use it and they're going to sandblast
      it and they're going to repaint it so the young ones don't slip
      over

  <WSC#DGB038:0830:HM>
      that's the <&>27:00</&> reason for the emptying it

  <WSC#DGB038:0835:HM>
      see you <.>ca</.> <.>you</.> you put a question to us

  <WSC#DGB038:0840:HM>
      we will find the answer

  <WSC#DGB038:0845:HM>
      hello albie

  <WSC#DGB038:0850:Z3>
      good morning mike

  <WSC#DGB038:0855:Z3>
      i would like to er make reference to your <drawls>er</drawls>
      interview with er ruth richardson on friday

  <WSC#DGB038:0860:HM>
      yep

  <WSC#DGB038:0865:Z3>
      where she said i suggest to you you don't know what you're
      talking about

  <WSC#DGB038:0870:Z3>
      now mike

  <WSC#DGB038:0875:HM>
      she does this on a regular basis albie

  <WSC#DGB038:0880:Z3>
      yes but i would suggest to her that she doesn't know what she's
      talking about because the proof of the pudding is always in the
      eating and her policy to date has hasn't got us anywhere

  <WSC#DGB038:0885:HM>
      well that's not true

  <WSC#DGB038:0890:HM>
      <{1><[1>we we we</[1> we must be careful of sweeping
      generalisations <{2><[2><O>inhales</O></[2> er

  <WSC#DGB038:0895:HM>
      she gave us six main points er the things that this government
      wanted to achieve in its first term <O>inhales</O> <{3><[3><drawls>er</drawls></[3>

  <WSC#DGB038:0900:HM>
      she she's hooked in on inflation and interest rates and <{4><[4>she
      is</[4> right

  <WSC#DGB038:0905:HM>
      they are they are better off

  <WSC#DGB038:0910:HM>
      they are lower and many people are better off because of them

  <WSC#DGB038:0915:HM>
      it's not just the national government that did that

  <WSC#DGB038:0920:HM>
      labour started that of course

  <WSC#DGB038:0925:HM>
      the two that we were talking about the deficit and the
      unemployment rate er you're right and er they've got us nowhere

  <WSC#DGB038:0930:HM>
      you're in in fact the <&>28:00</&> only place they have got us
      is worse off than we were before

  <WSC#DGB038:0935:Z3>
      <[1>is that not true</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:0940:Z3>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:0945:Z3>
      <[3>yes</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGB038:0950:Z3>
      <[4>yes</[4></{4>

  <WSC#DGB038:0955:Z3>
      exactly

  <WSC#DGB038:0960:HM>
      er the argument still remains that er she believes the policies
      the government are following at the moment will eventually pay
      off

  <WSC#DGB038:0965:HM>
      it becomes increasingly debatable because once again you're
      right in saying the proof <drawls>in er</drawls> is in the
      eating or the er the results are the only things that count
      aren't they

  <WSC#DGB038:0970:Z3>
      exactly

  <WSC#DGB038:0975:HM>
      and the results so far and er george hawkins pointed it out the
      other day if an election was held tomorrow and unemployment will
      have risen EIGHTEEN percent in the last two and a bit years from
      a government that promised to halve it and er that's the result
      that's the end of the story and so i suppose that all you can
      say is that at this point it's a failure

  <WSC#DGB038:0980:HM>
      it's er a matter now of us listening and making up our minds and
      deciding whether or not that the general path that we're
      travelling down is is the correct one

  <WSC#DGB038:0985:Z3>
      <{><[>yeah</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:0990:HM>
      <[>many</[></{> will say it's not of course

  <WSC#DGB038:0995:Z3>
      it'll be very interesting to see this year anyway and i'm
      looking forward to it

  <WSC#DGB038:1000:HM>
      oh it's a <?><.>stunning</.></?> it'll be a FAscinating year as
      far as observation is concerned

  <WSC#DGB038:1005:HM>
      the tragedy of political debate though is that as <&>29:00</&>
      as interesting as it is

  <WSC#DGB038:1010:HM>
      it is in fact affecting our lives isn't it <{><[>and</[> and
      it's great to discuss these things and it's great to er
      speculate and pontificate about possibilities and probabilities
      but er you know policies affect our lives and interest rates
      going down mean that er if you want to invest some you're not
      receiving as much in return

  <WSC#DGB038:1015:HM>
      i'm paying less on my mortgage

  <WSC#DGB038:1020:HM>
      unemployment's going up you know all of these things that er
      shape our lives in <drawls>a</drawls> at this stage anyway a
      fairly unhappy fashion don't they

  <WSC#DGB038:1025:Z3>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:1030:Z3>
      i think the price is too high

  <WSC#DGB038:1035:HM>
      yeah i the the i i would agree

  <WSC#DGB038:1040:HM>
      i would agree with you

  <WSC#DGB038:1045:HM>
      i think that er you look at the <.>unemploy</.> those
      unemployment figures particularly and er go back to eighty four
      or preeighty four or when unemployment wasn't as big a deal as
      it is now and you balance that up the social cost of
      unemployment versus the er the economic gains that we've made
      and you got to ask it's a pretty tough question you got to ask
      and i don't have the answer

  <WSC#DGB038:1050:HM>
      i don't think anybody does actually

  <WSC#DGB038:1055:HM>
      BUT i'm yet to i'm yet to be convinced of something stunning in
      the way of an alternative

  <WSC#DGB038:1060:Z3>
      if there was a war tomorrow mike there'd be all <&>30:00</&> the
      money in the world to equip and send young people away <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1065:HM>
      mm

  <WSC#DGB038:1070:Z3>
      so we've <?>got</?> <unclear>word</unclear> <?>an</?> economic
      war and we should fight it with the same methods

  <WSC#DGB038:1075:HM>
      yes but the difficulty is where do you get that money from

  <WSC#DGB038:1080:Z3>
      we've got to create it

  <WSC#DGB038:1085:HM>
      how do we do that

  <WSC#DGB038:1090:Z3>
      well er the in the <drawls>er</drawls> depression of the
      thirties where i live there was a concrete wall nice stone wall
      built right round the waterfront and <drawls>the</drawls> er
      labour was paid for out of <?>number five</?> scheme

  <WSC#DGB038:1095:Z3>
      <{><[>we've</[> got something to show for it and the people
      doing the job were learning something constructive <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1100:HM>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:1105:HM>
      sure that's true

  <WSC#DGB038:1110:HM>
      the problem is we didn't have any debt back then did we didn't
      have to borrow from the banks and when we did we paid it back

  <WSC#DGB038:1115:HM>
      we can't do that any more and that's the great tragedy of it all

  <WSC#DGB038:1120:Z3>
      yes

  <WSC#DGB038:1125:HM>
      and if you owed as much money as this country did you wouldn't
      borrowing any more to spend it either would you

  <WSC#DGB038:1130:Z3>
      <.>perha</.> perhaps where this country is not being run inside
      the country

  <WSC#DGB038:1135:Z3>
      perhaps we're being dictated to <.>by</.> by <{><[>influences
      outside</[>

  <WSC#DGB038:1140:HM>
      <[>there's there's an</[></{> element of that

  <WSC#DGB038:1145:HM>
      if i was if i was mister banker <&>31:00</&> and you were er
      mister new zealand and you owed me sixty four billion dollars
      i'd be calling the tune wouldn't i

  <WSC#DGB038:1150:Z3>
      <with high pitched voice>of course you would</with high pitched voice>

  <WSC#DGB038:1155:Z3>
      <{><[>yes</[> and we've silly to get ourselves into that
      situation

  <WSC#DGB038:1160:HM>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:1165:HM>
      weren't we just but it's all our fault to be fair

  <WSC#DGB038:1170:HM>
      <{1><[1>mister muldoon</[1> came to the people of the country
      and he said we'll make this superannuation universal won't we

  <WSC#DGB038:1175:HM>
      <{2><[2>we'll</[2> have a wage and price freeze and we'll you
      know do all those wonderful protectionist things that got us in
      trouble in the first place

  <WSC#DGB038:1180:Z3>
      <[1><O>laughs</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB038:1185:Z3>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB038:1190:Z3>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1195:HM>
      and then the labour government came in and made a whole lot of
      stupid decisions that saw us borrowing ludicrous amounts of
      money for minimal return <&>pronounced as retur</&> and here we
      are in ninety ninety three i <O>voc</O> debt up to the eyeballs

  <WSC#DGB038:1200:HM>
      it's a <{><[>frightening</[> business isn't it <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1205:Z3>
      <[><?><O>laughs</O></?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB038:1210:Z3>
      <O>laughs</O> <laughs>certainly is</laughs> <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1215:HM>
      good to talk to you <latch>

  <WSC#DGB038:1220:Z3>
      <laughs>well good on you mike

  <WSC#DGB038:1225:Z3>
      <{><[>thank you</[> bye</laughs>

  <WSC#DGB038:1230:HM>
      <[>bye bye</[></{> <&>31:36</&>
</I>
