<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:25</&>
  

  <WSC#DGB043:0005:HB>
      tim good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0010:XT>
      good morning jim

  <WSC#DGB043:0015:JA>
      good morning tim

  <WSC#DGB043:0020:XT>
      <?>this is an old an old friend of yours from dunedin</?> jim

  <WSC#DGB043:0025:XT>
      i would how would you restructure the the present housing
      corporation jim

  <WSC#DGB043:0030:JA>
      <drawls>well</drawls> the housing corporation has traditionally
      and historically been a a um a housing body that looks after
      those who are not able for variety of reasons health income um
      security to provide housing from the private sector

  <WSC#DGB043:0035:JA>
      there's always been a private sector and <&>1:00</&> there
      always will be and so there should in a mixed economy but the
      housing corporation has been there to provide housing for those
      in need who are not able to fulfil that need which is an
      essential er service really

  <WSC#DGB043:0040:JA>
      i mean health education housing and employment i think are the
      four keys to to human survival and um the housing corporation
      should be there

  <WSC#DGB043:0045:JA>
      we would see housing as one of the main economic and social
      instruments of an alliance government so we would invest two
      hundred and fifty million dollars into the housing corporation
      to actually provide more housing and do it each year for five
      years

  <WSC#DGB043:0050:JA>
      that would also provide more jobs

  <WSC#DGB043:0055:JA>
      it would deal with the hundred thousand new zealanders who are
      living in appallingly bad housing conditions at the present time
      and provide employment opportunities as well and we would
      monitor and um restrict the rent increases to a percentage

  <WSC#DGB043:0060:JA>
      we suggest twenty five percent of total income

  <WSC#DGB043:0065:JA>
      i mean i just had a a fifty six year old yesterday ring my
      electorate office

  <WSC#DGB043:0070:JA>
      she's she's living in a housing corporation rental

  <WSC#DGB043:0075:JA>
      her <&>2:00</&> rental is going up from seventy three dollars to
      ninety dollars this week and she's earning a hundred and thirty
      one dollars a week

  <WSC#DGB043:0080:JA>
      now come on

  <WSC#DGB043:0085:JA>
      i mean how in GOD'S name are we expecting people to cope and
      because she's in a housing rental a housing corporation rental
      or housing new zealand rental she doesn't qualify for any
      accommodation benefit so it's just become impossible for people
      to survive

  <WSC#DGB043:0090:HB>
      now <.>all</.> for all those of you listeners who want to know
      more about housing you can hear it from jim anderton but um john
      luxton will be on next monday so er get your housing questions
      ready then

  <WSC#DGB043:0095:HB>
      john luxton <{1><[1>the minister of housing</[1> he'll be on
      next monday

  <WSC#DGB043:0100:HB>
      good er to have your call tim

  <WSC#DGB043:0105:HB>
      you're listening to radio pacific the <{2><[2>talk of new
      zealand</[2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0110:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine is the number

  <WSC#DGB043:0115:HB>
      if you'd like to give us a call then the lines are open for you
      to do so

  <WSC#DGB043:0120:HB>
      jim anderton is our guest <&>2:50</&> <&>advertisements not
      transcribed</&> <&>3:09</&>

  <WSC#DGB043:0125:JA>
      <[1><O>sneezes</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0130:JA>
      <[2><O>coughs</O></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0135:HB>
      on radio pacific now

  <WSC#DGB043:0140:HB>
      richard good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0145:Z1>
      er hello yes er mister anderton <{1><[1>i would like</[1> to ask
      you er about the health policy

  <WSC#DGB043:0150:Z1>
      i've <,> been a labour voter <,> <sighs>er</sighs> but i am
      thinking of <.>s</.> swinging over but you had a a mister
      gribbon i <{2><[2><?>think</?> on</[2> on television i haven't
      seen much about alliance since then on on television

  <WSC#DGB043:0155:Z1>
      what <,> what are you going to be doing about the crown health
      enterprises um

  <WSC#DGB043:0160:JA>
      <[1>yes richard</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0165:JA>
      <[2>barry gribbons</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0170:JA>
      we're going to abolish them

  <WSC#DGB043:0175:JA>
      we're going to go back to elected area health boards with
      professional management <{><[>to</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0180:HB>
      <[>why</[></{> are they so much better though for goodness sake

  <WSC#DGB043:0185:HB>
      i mean we've gone through all this and

  <WSC#DGB043:0190:JA>
      yes that's right and we're going through it all again

  <WSC#DGB043:0195:JA>
      why are we going through <.>th</.> the crown health enterprises
      <{><[>thing i mean</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0200:HB>
      <[>mm</[></{> why would you abolish them <&>4:00</&>

  <WSC#DGB043:0205:JA>
      well because at the present time the community has very little
      input into what's going on in their health care at a local level

  <WSC#DGB043:0210:JA>
      for example area health boards at least used to have their
      meetings in public

  <WSC#DGB043:0215:JA>
      the er crown health enterprises don't and er the public know
      very little

  <WSC#DGB043:0220:JA>
      they know exactly what they're told you know from propaganda and
      i don't think that's good enough for an essential service like
      health and furthermore the principle of health service will be
      that er people receive health care because they need it not
      because they can pay for it and that will go through the primary
      system g ps and prescriptions and through the secondary care
      services like public hospitals and um we will increase taxation
      to to make health care free on a universal basis

  <WSC#DGB043:0225:JA>
      that means free to the user

  <WSC#DGB043:0230:JA>
      it's not free of course and that would cost about a total of
      four hundred million dollars more that is to have free g ps free
      prescriptions and free public <&>5:00</&> hospitals as public
      hospitals should be of course

  <WSC#DGB043:0235:JA>
      the idea of of of paying to go into a public hospital is is a
      <.>n</.> negation in terms so um that's the deal er rich or poor

  <WSC#DGB043:0240:JA>
      if you're rich you've paid a bit more tax over your lifetime but
      <?>i mean</?> whenever you need care you get it as of right
      forever

  <WSC#DGB043:0245:JA>
      i mean the idea that you send out a bill to a premature baby of
      three months old for four hundred and fifty or five hundred
      dollars for care in an intensive care neonatal unit is obscene
      and that's what's happening in my electorate and all over the
      country

  <WSC#DGB043:0250:HB>
      is that enough to swing your vote richard

  <WSC#DGB043:0255:Z1>
      well yeah it <.>i</.> <.>i</.> it does seem very good so you'll
      have a universal <{><[>publicly funded</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0260:JA>
      <[>a universal right</[></{> to free health care for all people
      in this country paid through a progressive tax system

  <WSC#DGB043:0265:JA>
      fundamentally <{1><[1>what</[1> it always used to be to be
      honest

  <WSC#DGB043:0270:JA>
      that's what we used to do

  <WSC#DGB043:0275:JA>
      you paid a a rate of tax according to your income and when you
      needed essential care like er health you got it <{2><[2>free</[2>
      of charge <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0280:Z1>
      <[1><unclear>word</unclear></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0285:Z1>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0290:Z1>
      well that <&>6:00</&> <,> that that seems very good

  <WSC#DGB043:0295:Z1>
      i i've been er watching er um that t v programme counterpoint
      <{1><[1>and</[1> they have <,> helen clark <{2><[2>on and</[2>
      er they used to have simon upton but what you're proposing seems
      um VERY you know er <.>v</.> very different from both <{3><[3>national
      and labour</[3>

  <WSC#DGB043:0300:JA>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0305:JA>
      <[2>that's right</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0310:JA>
      <[3>well it is different and i've</[3></{3> written to
      television and <{1><[1>said</[1> if you want if you want to have
      a different viewpoint why don't you have the alliance because
      <.>th</.> labour and national are so close

  <WSC#DGB043:0315:JA>
      i mean as i say the only specific difference that i can see in
      labour's health policy is that they would abolish the hospital
      charges and if national does abolish them labour haven't got a
      policy <{2><[2><?>basically</?></[2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0320:Z1>
      <[1><unclear>word</unclear></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0325:HB>
      <[2>okay richard</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0330:HB>
      nice to have your call

  <WSC#DGB043:0335:HB>
      three oh nine three oh double nine is the number

  <WSC#DGB043:0340:HB>
      sarah good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0345:Z2>
      oh good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0350:Z2>
      mister anderton <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0355:JA>
      yes sarah <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0360:Z2>
      i'd like to ask just two quick questions but as there are so
      many issues we'd like to discuss and there's not time on <,> air
      after that is it possible for us to get an address where by we
      could write to you

  <WSC#DGB043:0365:JA>
      care of parliament buildings wellington

  <WSC#DGB043:0370:Z2>
      oh that simply thank you

  <WSC#DGB043:0375:Z2>
      now um compulsory <&>7:00</&> union membership are you bringing
      that back in

  <WSC#DGB043:0380:JA>
      no <,>

  <WSC#DGB043:0385:JA>
      the unions themselves don't want it now

  <WSC#DGB043:0390:JA>
      i mean there may be the odd union leader that would but by and
      large they recognise that um that regime is gone and they've got
      to win support from their members

  <WSC#DGB043:0395:JA>
      i think there is a case for people paying their share of costs
      for <.>commu</.> communal benefits like you know wage and
      condition wages and conditions that are won by award
      negotiations and so on by unions but er the unions would prefer
      to win that support on a voluntary basis

  <WSC#DGB043:0400:Z2>
      good thank you and g s t any changes there

  <WSC#DGB043:0405:JA>
      yes one big change

  <WSC#DGB043:0410:JA>
      i'm going to abolish it <,> over five six years i think it would
      take us to do it phase it out at about two two and a half
      percent a year and replace it with a financial transactions tax
      which is a much broader base of financial transactions
      throughout the community

  <WSC#DGB043:0415:JA>
      something like <,> ten or twelve times the total gross domestic
      product of the country actually is what the volume of money
      going <&>8:00</&> through the <.>banks</.> banking system is and
      we'd tax on that and <{><[>people would pay</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0420:Z2>
      <[>okay so what transactions</[></{> are taxed <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0425:JA>
      financial transactions <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0430:Z2>
      financial <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0435:JA>
      the volume of <{><[>money that goes</[> through the banking
      system

  <WSC#DGB043:0440:Z2>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB043:0445:HB>
      doesn't it turn the banks though into the policemen

  <WSC#DGB043:0450:JA>
      no it turns them into tax collectors like all businesses in new
      zealand are turned into tax collectors

  <WSC#DGB043:0455:JA>
      i mean every small business that has to administer g s t has to
      pay enormous compliance costs for that so it would be a BOON to
      small businesses not to have to do it

  <WSC#DGB043:0460:HB>
      good to have your call sarah

  <WSC#DGB043:0465:HB>
      twenty one minutes away from eleven oclock here on radio pacific

  <WSC#DGB043:0470:HB>
      you can er talk to jim anderton by calling three oh nine three
      oh double nine

  <WSC#DGB043:0475:HB>
      if you're calling from out of auckland of course put a zero nine
      in front of that and your call will be given priority
      <&>8:39</&> <&>advertisements not transcribed</&> <&>8:43</&>

  <WSC#DGB043:0480:HB>
      radio pacific of course broadcasting up and down the nation with
      jim anderton in our studio this morning and kathy good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0485:Z3>
      yes good morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0490:Z3>
      good <{><[>morning mister anderton</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0495:Z3>
      i would like to ask you about education because i'm the mother
      of five gifted <&>9:00</&> children and education is crippling
      our <.>ord</.> very ordinary family

  <WSC#DGB043:0500:Z3>
      i would like to ask you what your policy is on external
      secondary school exams and tertiary education because that's
      what i will be voting on this election

  <WSC#DGB043:0505:JA>
      <[>good morning kathy</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB043:0510:JA>
      well let's take them in turn

  <WSC#DGB043:0515:JA>
      the education system and and investment in education is probably
      the most important social investment that we can make <.>in</.>
      for the country's future and although many politicians give lip
      service to that unfortunately over recent years education has
      actually fallen in real terms er in the provision that's made
      for it and that's going to actually cause us a lot of problems
      <,> in the future because many other countries that are
      developing rapidly are spending more on education while we spend
      in effectively less

  <WSC#DGB043:0520:JA>
      now er our policy again is the same as for the essential area of
      health that we see education as a community benefit

  <WSC#DGB043:0525:JA>
      it's not just an <&>10:00</&> individual benefit

  <WSC#DGB043:0530:JA>
      the whole community benefits if we have good doctors good
      lawyers good mothers and fathers good technicians good radio er
      interviewers and <{><[><laughs>politicians</laughs></[> and
      therefore we shouldn't ask people to pay for education when
      they're getting it

  <WSC#DGB043:0535:JA>
      we should ask them to pay for it when they've had it and they're
      earning money and er the more education they've got USUALLY the
      better money they earn so they pay a higher rate of tax through
      progressive taxation so we say free er education from
      kindergarten or preschool right through to tertiary level and
      postgraduate and THEN when people have got good jobs in this
      country they will pay back that money instead of charging for
      loans or fees and then trying to take it back over the next
      twenty years and all this nonsense

  <WSC#DGB043:0540:JA>
      let's call a spade a spade and get education as a a KEY element
      for the future of new zealand and provide it free of charge

  <WSC#DGB043:0545:HB>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGB043:0550:HB>
      okay kathy?

  <WSC#DGB043:0555:Z3>
      no um <{1><[1>he's</[1> completely ignored my first <{2><[2>i'd
      like to know that</[2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0560:HB>
      <[1>oh</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0565:JA>
      <[2>i'm sorry the the</[2></{2> question of external exams
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0570:Z3>
      yes

  <WSC#DGB043:0575:JA>
      well <O>tut</O> the education policy of the alliance
      <&>11:00</&> is actually going to be er announced after the end
      of may

  <WSC#DGB043:0580:JA>
      BASICALLY er my view of what i've heard through the discussions
      in the alliance is that external examinations are not looked
      upon with great favour in the education community

  <WSC#DGB043:0585:JA>
      there may be a place for them for some kind of maintenance of
      standards but by and large we should trust our education
      institutions as we trust our <.>in</.> universities

  <WSC#DGB043:0590:JA>
      after all when you go to university you don't have an external
      university exam you have an internal one and we should trust our
      schools to have internal exams and give us um a a fair view of
      the abilities of students

  <WSC#DGB043:0595:JA>
      it's always disturbed me very badly that we have a pass fail
      situation in this country right from the beginning when you go
      to school certificate

  <WSC#DGB043:0600:JA>
      you know fifty percent of new zealanders <.>f</.> fail <O>tut</O>
      a a key examination and they have failure branded on them in
      their mind in their emotions at a very tender age and i think
      that's a a heinous thing to do to people so we should have
      <&>12:00</&> a a more success oriented a win win situation

  <WSC#DGB043:0605:JA>
      in other words let's let's concentrate on the abilities that
      every individual has develop those and use those skills

  <WSC#DGB043:0610:JA>
      i mean i know many people who failed school certificate who
      actually make a very worthwhile contribution <.>an</.> and in
      some cases a highly intellectual one too but just because they
      failed in the fifth form er doesn't mean to say they they are
      failures at all and yet we do tend to use that as a measurement
      in employment and everything else

  <WSC#DGB043:0615:HB>
      okay kathy?

  <WSC#DGB043:0620:Z3>
      oh not really <{><[>no</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0625:HB>
      <[>well</[></{> no i didn't think <{1><[1>with</[1> five gifted
      children it must be pretty difficult <{2><[2>i would imagine</[2>

  <WSC#DGB043:0630:Z3>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGB043:0635:Z3>
      <[2>yes because i</[2></{2> actually find that the internal <.>as</.>
      assessment is a lose lose system <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0640:JA>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0645:Z3>
      for average or lower than average children <{><[>and that</[> i
      wouldn't because there are subjects in the sixth form
      certificate it's impossible to pass so no matter what your child
      does <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0650:JA>
      <[>why is that</[></{>

  <WSC#DGB043:0655:JA>
      why is it impossible to pass them <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0660:Z3>
      because they give the high grades to academic subjects and
      nonacademic subjects get the failing <{><[>grade</[>

  <WSC#DGB043:0665:JA>
      <[>but</[></{> that's the school certificate system <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0670:Z3>
      no this is also a system in the sixth form and it's <&>13:00</&>
      much more marked than than the school certificate

  <WSC#DGB043:0675:Z3>
      i'm actually a a mathematics coach <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0680:JA>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGB043:0685:Z3>
      and i find the children who are hurt by the internal assessment
      are the average or lower than average children

  <WSC#DGB043:0690:JA>
      well now that's <.>a</.> that's a fault of the measurement er er
      criteria isn't it

  <WSC#DGB043:0695:JA>
      i mean <.>i</.> if you have people who are measured in such a
      way that <.>the</.> they have to fail because of the grading
      system that's a fault there

  <WSC#DGB043:0700:JA>
      it's not a fault of whether it's internal or external because
      the school certificate system is exactly the same

  <WSC#DGB043:0705:JA>
      for YEARS they actually down graded people who took maori for
      example and more of them failed than <.>h</.> those who took say
      mathematics

  <WSC#DGB043:0710:JA>
      now that was a failure of the school cert system and the way in
      which they marked and graded

  <WSC#DGB043:0715:JA>
      now you can have that bad marking and grading system whether you
      have external or internal examination

  <WSC#DGB043:0720:HB>
      it's a topic you could go on talking about all morning

  <WSC#DGB043:0725:HB>
      kathy i'm afraid we've got to cut it there

  <WSC#DGB043:0730:HB>
      good to have your call though

  <WSC#DGB043:0735:HB>
      fourteen minutes away from eleven oclock

  <WSC#DGB043:0740:HB>
      we're going down to napier to have a chat to james

  <WSC#DGB043:0745:HB>
      good morning <&>13:57</&>
</I>
