<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:15</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI038:0005:IK>
      can you tell us a little about how <,> <O>tut</O> the early
      settlers fertilised their ground when they were gardening

  <WSC#DGI038:0010:HL>
      well it depends on who you mean by early settlers

  <WSC#DGI038:0015:HL>
      the er of course the first settlers in new zealand were the
      maori people

  <WSC#DGI038:0020:HL>
      <.>a</.> they were fantastic gardeners but they believed that
      gardens were sacred for much of the time the crops were growing
      and so er because of the tapu nature of the gardens they didn't
      use any form of er manure er

  <WSC#DGI038:0025:HL>
      the fertiliser that they would have had would have been the ash
      derived from burning off the vegetation

  <WSC#DGI038:0030:HL>
      of course when the missionaries arrived um they i don't think
      fully appreciated the um extent of maori gardening practices or
      the nature <&>1:00</&> of them and er they were very upset that
      the maoris wouldn't use animal excrement um or dung um er

  <WSC#DGI038:0035:HL>
      <.>they</.> i don't think they really realised it was because
      the gardens were tapu but of course the europeans had <.>ha</.>
      a very long tradition of using um manure and it wasn't just the
      animal manure it was all their household sweepings um

  <WSC#DGI038:0040:HL>
      it was the water from washing people and food and vegetables and
      so on plus what they called the night soil which was the er the
      HUMAN excrement and all of this tended to be er collected up in
      big pits or in heaps and er they'd er probably sprinkle ash over
      it to er sort of deodorise it somewhat and then when it had
      broken down they had no problem at all

  <WSC#DGI038:0045:HL>
      they put it straight into the gardens including flower gardens

  <WSC#DGI038:0050:IK>
      why does it have to be broken down

  <WSC#DGI038:0055:IK>
      why do you have to put it in a holding area <&>2:00</&> first

  <WSC#DGI038:0060:HL>
      well there are some problems with the um the most rich um
      excrements that they can BURN plants and i think they realised
      that if you for example put on human excrement on your plants
      straight away you could <.>ek</.> um get burnt leaves or the
      plant might die

  <WSC#DGI038:0065:HL>
      i think there would be an odour problem as well there kathryn

  <WSC#DGI038:0070:IK>
      just to go back to the maori what effect did it have the fact
      that they didn't use er dung on their gardens

  <WSC#DGI038:0075:HL>
      well they had to um move their gardens er <.>qu</.> quite
      regular intervals

  <WSC#DGI038:0080:HL>
      for a long time they were limited to quite light sandy soils
      because they didn't have steel er spades or anything like that
      to cultivate with and they used um quite hard wood er digging
      sticks

  <WSC#DGI038:0085:HL>
      this meant that from a labouring point of view you were best to
      grow things like your kumara and your taro <O>tut</O> in coastal
      soils or the lighter er <&>3:00</&> valley bottom soils um <O>tut</O>
      and <,> the nutrients in these would be quite quickly exhausted

  <WSC#DGI038:0090:HL>
      probably they'd get three seasons cropping and then <.>the</.>
      the yields would fall off and er they would need to clear a new
      area and in the clearing with the burning off of the vegetation
      for that patch they would er release er you know ash and that
      would feed the crop for a short period

  <WSC#DGI038:0095:IK>
      and they were aware of that

  <WSC#DGI038:0100:IK>
      they were using it as as a fertilising mechanism were they

  <WSC#DGI038:0105:HL>
      i'm sure they were aware that the the first season after you'd
      cleared the patch when the ash was there er that that was
      probably feeding the crop in some way

  <WSC#DGI038:0110:IK>
      you hear about um the maori being market gardeners to the
      european settlers up round hamilton and auckland um you know <.>i</.>
      in the middle of last century

  <WSC#DGI038:0115:HL>
      yes there there was an enormous gardening renaissance

  <WSC#DGI038:0120:HL>
      when the european crops arrived maoris had been er stuck with
      <&>4:00</&> about five crops for you know just on a thousand
      years and needless to say there were a few difficulties with
      some of these

  <WSC#DGI038:0125:HL>
      probably virus in the sweet potato was causing very small yields
      and small tubers and as soon as the europeans introduced THEIR
      range of garden crops the maoris took these up made them their
      own so to speak and um reproduced them brilliantly

  <WSC#DGI038:0130:HL>
      i mean they were feeding the um early settlements in in auckland
      and to some extent wellington as well um and this was before the
      chinese market gardening um started become important from about
      the eighteen sixties on

  <WSC#DGI038:0135:IK>
      so were they doing this market gardening without manures without
      fertilisers as we'd know them

  <WSC#DGI038:0140:HL>
      well the missionary colenso said that he couldn't persuade them
      to use er manure and this was as late as the fifties <,>

  <WSC#DGI038:0145:HL>
      we can't be totally sure <.>th</.> it could that they were able
      with new tools to break in <&>5:00</&> new land and therefore
      they were taking advantage of things like the old forest floor
      leaf litter in in the new areas they were developing cos of
      course the european crops weren't as as er um hard to grow <.>in</.>
      especially in the south island as the kumara and the taro had
      been

  <WSC#DGI038:0150:HL>
      i mean they were limited basically to as far south as banks
      peninsula and nothing much further so things like the potato and
      the maize um they could be grown in other areas <,> and the <.>s</.>
      potato became a real staple for the south island and maoris grew
      hundreds and hundreds of hectares of that

  <WSC#DGI038:0155:IK>
      given that you know the land grab and the fights over land
      between the two races were happening at this time and given that
      the maori were having to use increasing amounts of land because
      they weren't fertilise it you could see that that system had to
      come to an end couldn't you

  <WSC#DGI038:0160:HL>
      <O>tut</O> yes i <.>thi</.> i think it HAD a a definite time
      limit um <,> <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI038:0165:HL>
      however <,> there are OTHER ways of you can use <&>6:00</&>
      seaweed

  <WSC#DGI038:0170:HL>
      that that's a help

  <WSC#DGI038:0175:HL>
      um you can bring IN vegetation that you've cut and you've you
      can burn that without having to use <.>the</.> the other forms
      of manure but i think probably by the seventies and eighties
      they were using um animal manure because the the old systems <.>were</.>
      were changing to some extent

  <WSC#DGI038:0180:IK>
      now when the european settlers came out <.>th</.> they brought
      with them quite a tradition of cottage gardening and and using
      manures and making special beds for special plants didn't they

  <WSC#DGI038:0185:HL>
      yes they they had some very elaborate technology and and partly
      this was the response to the the british climate

  <WSC#DGI038:0190:HL>
      um they were very used to making hot beds and and of course hot
      beds are wonderfully exciting things to make because they can go
      wrong

  <WSC#DGI038:0195:HL>
      <.>i</.> i've tried with er a few heaps of er compost and with a
      bit of animal manure thrown in and you can generate enormous
      heat

  <WSC#DGI038:0200:HL>
      well er the er skills of the eighteenth and early nineteenth
      century gardeners in britain was that you had to harness this
      heat <&>7:00</&> without allowing it to destroy your crop so in
      in late winter they would get in fresh cartloads of stable
      manure that was one of the best and they'd mix it with er
      sometimes um the bark used in tanning pits or with leaves um or
      <.>fo</.> straw and turn it over and and leave it about a couple
      of weeks for the first sort of excess of heat to disperse and
      then they would er put a thin layer of soil over the top of it
      and big heavy glass frames over that which they called lights
      and and then they would start the um <,> <O>tut</O> very often
      it was things like er melons um cucumbers in the soil on top of
      that great um decomposing mass in underneath and they'd er test
      for the heat er at regular intervals and open and shut the
      frames and so on so it was a very elaborate thing

  <WSC#DGI038:0205:HL>
      now it must have been wonderful to come to new zealand
      <&>8:00</&> because in most parts of new zealand you didn't need
      these great big hot beds but <.>th</.> the skills they had
      developed over the years in in in making these um <.>we</.> you
      know really quite interesting

  <WSC#DGI038:0210:IK>
      at THIS stage what did they know about the components of of
      fertiliser and <.>wha</.> what gardens needed

  <WSC#DGI038:0215:HL>
      well the <,> midnineteenth century view was that if you took
      carbonaceous material from the soil in the form of crops you had
      to return it <,> um <,> <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI038:0220:HL>
      they had a very good knowledge of all the different properties
      of manures

  <WSC#DGI038:0225:HL>
      i mean for example horse manure they considered to be hot
      therefore you would apply it to cold wet soils

  <WSC#DGI038:0230:HL>
      um it was probably hot because it was dryer than the other
      manures er

  <WSC#DGI038:0235:HL>
      pig manure is is er a cold manure and it's it's wet but quite
      nutritious as far as as plants go

  <WSC#DGI038:0240:HL>
      um sheep manure they liked

  <WSC#DGI038:0245:HL>
      um they had quite <&>9:00</&> a lot of pigeon manure because of
      course there were pigeon lofts

  <WSC#DGI038:0250:IK>
      yes

  <WSC#DGI038:0255:HL>
      and er that's really one of the reasons why they got so keen on
      guano when it first became um er an export from the islands off
      south america <{><[>cos of course</[>

  <WSC#DGI038:0260:IK>
      <[>oh did we import</[></{> guano did we

  <WSC#DGI038:0265:HL>
      er yes we did to some extent but it was more often sent to
      europe

  <WSC#DGI038:0270:HL>
      um it was based on er almost slave labour had a terrible impact
      on some of the pacific peoples but <.>i</.> it became the basis
      of a real boom in in BRITISH horticulture and agriculture <,>
      <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI038:0275:HL>
      the er <,> the COLD manures which were the the sheep and and the
      pig and the cow manures er they thought were best for the the
      light sandy soils um <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI038:0280:HL>
      they all had their own recipes for composts and manure heaps and
      so on and and they realised that if you didn't cover manure
      heaps as they rotted you'd <&>10:00</&> lose a lot of the
      nitrogen um in the form of ammonia <O>tut</O> so they began to
      find out about the chemicals but one of the big breakthroughs
      came when they realised how they could use bone dust on er soils
      that weren't acid

  <WSC#DGI038:0285:HL>
      um this goes actually back to the to the late eighteenth century
      er when it was found that if you put ground up bone on er quite
      acid soils it acted as a very good fertiliser

  <WSC#DGI038:0290:IK>
      how did they find that out

  <WSC#DGI038:0295:HL>
      i'm not actually <laughs>sure kathryn</laughs>

  <WSC#DGI038:0300:HL>
      um it was an agricultural discovery and that it's supposed to
      have been about er seventeen seventy or so but it didn't work on
      the nonacid soils but <.>w</.> er for the for the areas that
      COULD use it it er it set in motion a a a pretty terrible
      episode in which um the <.>britain</.> british people were using
      ground up bones from um catacombs in sicily and apparently from
      <&>11:00</&> battlefields on the crimea and waterloo and so on

  <WSC#DGI038:0305:HL>
      i mean human reMAINS were being brought back the bones were
      being brought back to be ground up

  <WSC#DGI038:0310:HL>
      well then about eighteen forty um er someone invented the
      superphosphate process which meant that you could treat the bone
      er or um some form of calcium phosphate with sulphuric acid and
      THAT meant that you could apply it to all sorts of soils so <.>tha</.>
      that superphosphate actually goes right back to about eighteen
      forty two

  <WSC#DGI038:0315:IK>
      and of course that's played a a major part in our <{><[>agriculture
      hasn't it</[>

  <WSC#DGI038:0320:HL>
      <[>indeed yes</[></{> yes

  <WSC#DGI038:0325:HL>
      they they also had a um a strong respect for lime and and er i
      can recall er you know even in my own childhood people limed
      their gardens very very vigorously

  <WSC#DGI038:0330:HL>
      i mean you'd see this great white covering all over the soil er
      er you know during the winter digging over and er i always sort
      of assumed it was something you had to put on every year

  <WSC#DGI038:0335:HL>
      um <&>12:00</&> when i started my own gardening i realised that
      only some crops really need it and er you know i i i just apply
      it normally now for the particular crop that needs lime and i
      don't just spread it everywhere

  <WSC#DGI038:0340:IK>
      for those of us who actually don't understand fertiliser at all
      what ARE the basic components and what do they do

  <WSC#DGI038:0345:HL>
      well <,> you know the the way it's presented is that you need
      <,> nitrogen for leafy growth and er er potassium is useful for
      root growth and er phosphate for fruit so um you need various
      mixtures concentrating more on one than the other for the type
      of crop you're growing but to be quite honest i think you can
      make real mistakes in taking that line and i mean that's the
      line i grew up with but i prefer to make a good well balanced
      compost and supplement it with a little bit of inorganic general
      fertiliser <&>13:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI038:0350:IK>
      well how do you know what's well balanced

  <WSC#DGI038:0355:IK>
      i mean i hear people talking about different recipes for their
      compost heaps er you <.>know</.>

  <WSC#DGI038:0360:IK>
      do <.>y</.> <{><[>er can</[>

  <WSC#DGI038:0365:HL>
      <[>i i'm afraid</[></{> mine is disorganised

  <WSC#DGI038:0370:HL>
      i just put everything i can from the household into it um even
      including some paper um <,> <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI038:0375:HL>
      i try and add some animal manure just to speed it up a bit

  <WSC#DGI038:0380:HL>
      i'm afraid my compost is rather a slow one

  <WSC#DGI038:0385:HL>
      it's <.>not</.> not an ideal one but er twice a year i i manage
      to spread a really good dark brown sweet smelling stuff onto the
      soil and i supplement that with um a commercial fertiliser
      <&>13:35</&>
</I>
