<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side two</&>
  <&>0:06</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI055:0005:WW>
      be if they would admit to that but whether they do or not they
      are becoming australians because of the the er tremendous
      influence that television has <{><[>on</[>

  <WSC#DGI055:0010:IP>
      <[>it's</[></{> totally overpowering isn't it

  <WSC#DGI055:0015:WW>
      well it it's um it gets into your vernacular

  <WSC#DGI055:0020:WW>
      er you talk about the er the funny things that you saw on this
      programme last night <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0025:IP>
      <with pseudo Australian accent>ricky</with pseudo Australian accent>
      stewart

  <WSC#DGI055:0030:WW>
      <O>laughs</O> well but we've had it for years of course er

  <WSC#DGI055:0035:WW>
      er the americans have been displaced to a degree by the
      australians and the british have been displaced to a degree but
      er the australians have <.>ha</.> have been able to er develop
      their er industry by giving some protection to it <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0040:IP>
      that's right

  <WSC#DGI055:0045:WW>
      and er this is something that er people like <&>1:00</&>
      williamson and others just don't seem to er understand i i mean
      the williamson the minister of er broadcasting doesn't seem to
      understand

  <WSC#DGI055:0050:WW>
      er this is part of the MANAGEMENT that i was talking about
      earlier

  <WSC#DGI055:0055:WW>
      we should be managing our economy

  <WSC#DGI055:0060:WW>
      we should be managing our broadcasting er system

  <WSC#DGI055:0065:WW>
      we should be managing our our two cultures' development rather
      than er let it be determined by foreigners who are able to
      produce in bulk and sell er cheaply to into new zealand and er
      and er attract television one television two and television
      three to buy their programmes

  <WSC#DGI055:0070:IP>
      whata i <.>d</.> i don't think er i'll throw my own opinion <?>in
      here</?>

  <WSC#DGI055:0075:IP>
      i don't think there's much doubt that new zealand pakeha
      maJORITY of the pakeha population <.>w</.> would would quite
      like to follow australia and be australians

  <WSC#DGI055:0080:IP>
      i don't think there's any doubt on that and and er it's been
      proved by the great success of the television diet <?>we're</?>
      receiving

  <WSC#DGI055:0085:IP>
      you could say that er if activists were at work er with an
      <&>2:00</&> economic collapse here we've referred to this then
      you modify public opinion because television is more powerful
      than ANYTHING <.>em</.> emanating from parliament or the other
      press or radio modify public opinion and then when an ECONOMIC
      BARGAIN is struck later on we simply have union with australia
      <,> <{><[>so</[> this is a predicate to political union with
      australia <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0090:WW>
      <[>well <.>that</.></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0095:WW>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0100:IP>
      and and people are working on it at quite a high level <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0105:WW>
      i think that's er there's a real possibility er there

  <WSC#DGI055:0110:WW>
      that's er why we need our own television and er radio services
      because er we should be able to communicate with each other on
      what our preferences <{><[>er</[> are

  <WSC#DGI055:0115:IP>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0120:IP>
      there wouldn't be er there wouldn't be er any any claim we could
      lay under the treaty of waitangi to being the eighth state of
      australia is there

  <WSC#DGI055:0125:IP>
      <.>we</.> could we claim new zealand back under the treaty whata
      if we <?>were <.>t</.></?> went off if if new zealand went off
      shore

  <WSC#DGI055:0130:WW>
      well actually er there's er er the treaty of waitangi is
      speaking to us every day and in everything we do

  <WSC#DGI055:0135:WW>
      it applies to all aspects of <&>3:00</&> our lives and er
      there's there's no doubt there's hardly a a policy that comes
      out of government or that is pursued in the er in er new zealand
      which is not er in some way prejudicial to some aspect of our
      <indig=Maori>tikanga</indig=Maori> and er the invasion by
      foreign er culture to er television and er radio is one of those
      areas and i i think that it's er quite plausible that er we
      could take a case to the waitangi tribunal and and win it to say
      that broadcasting policy has been er has been detrimental in
      terms of <indig=Maori>tikanga</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DGI055:0140:WW>
      that has of course been argued before the high court now that
      the language has been er threatened by the invasion of of the
      english language but we didn't take er the case that the
      <indig=Maori>tikanga</indig=Maori> had been invaded by
      <&>4:00</&> foreign programming on television and and radio and
      that's another line

  <WSC#DGI055:0145:IP>
      quite a big discussion point earlier this morning on
      <indig=Maori>te upoko</indig=Maori> was the claim over the
      whales

  <WSC#DGI055:0150:WW>
      oh i see <laughs>yes</laughs> <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0155:IP>
      on the breakfast show <{><[>this morning and ngai</[> tahu were
      going for the <indig=Maori>tohora</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DGI055:0160:WW>
      <[><O>laughs</O> yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0165:WW>
      yes

  <WSC#DGI055:0170:IP>
      er do you support that whata

  <WSC#DGI055:0175:WW>
      well i tell you what er <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0180:WW>
      we should be claiming all of the fisheries of <{><[>course</[>

  <WSC#DGI055:0185:IP>
      <[><?>you'll be</?></[></{> claiming the airwaves next

  <WSC#DGI055:0190:WW>
      <O>laughs</O> <{><[>i</[> can tell you this that i i think in
      this regard the waitangi tribunal didn't take on the issue in
      the er when when er they er heard our submissions on
      broadcasting they should have taken on the er the property issue
      and they side stepped er that one and er and i don't er i don't
      think we <.>s</.> we've heard the end of it but it's true that
      er we have full er <&>5:00</&> rights to the er frequencies the
      airwaves

  <WSC#DGI055:0195:WW>
      access should be ours guaranteed under the er treaty of waitangi

  <WSC#DGI055:0200:WW>
      there's no prior claim that the crown has to those so yes i we
      er should be continuing to pursue our case that we own the
      airwaves

  <WSC#DGI055:0205:IP>
      <[><O>coughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0210:IP>
      er <.>i</.> to give credit to bishop manu huia on the airwaves
      claim whata my reading was that although he didn't award assets
      and improvements which the waitangi tribunal always says is has
      a less moral purity than <O>inhales</O> than the pure issue it
      did er approve what the lawyers describe as the fetter on the
      crown's prerogative

  <WSC#DGI055:0215:WW>
      <O>tut</O> yes <{><[><?>well</?></[>

  <WSC#DGI055:0220:IP>
      <[>on</[></{> public property and to describe a prior right that
      maori will have now on all public resources which which looks to
      me like whales whata

  <WSC#DGI055:0225:WW>
      <O>laughs</O> <{><[><O>laughs</O></[> <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0230:IP>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0235:IP>
      so so <{1><[1>er the listeners i'm sure the listeners will be
      interested in the claim of the whales

  <WSC#DGI055:0240:IP>
      by the way if you'd like to join the discussion give us a call
      on seven three two nine eight oh if you want to talk about er
      television or or the whales</[1> and so on

  <WSC#DGI055:0245:IP>
      er <&>6:00</&> whata i'm very interested that the news er
      GROSSLY misreported the whales one last night er

  <WSC#DGI055:0250:IP>
      you know the er <O>tut</O> the er er <title>listener</title> did
      a much better job of reporting the history of that over the last
      two years <{2><[2>when</[2> kaikoura has been er has been er
      there has been intense hostility to maori actually making their
      mark <{3><[3>and</[3> establishing a successful company

  <WSC#DGI055:0255:IP>
      you've got to take your hat off to bill solomon

  <WSC#DGI055:0260:WW>
      <[1>yeah <O>laughs</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGI055:0265:WW>
      <[2><?>mm</?></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGI055:0270:WW>
      <[3>mm</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGI055:0275:WW>
      yes yes well i um <O>tut</O> i think that's er er er there's
      there's no doubt that there are there are opportunities er
      available er to us and we've got to be er searching er for those
      <O>swallows</O> and er meanwhile we've got to make sure that the
      ground rules don't preclude us the <.>v</.> ground rules don't
      cut us out and of course er that is what er happened in
      fisheries over several years cumulatively until the point where
      <.>we've</.> we er had practically no one in <&>7:00</&> the
      fishing industry

  <WSC#DGI055:0280:WW>
      now there's a return <,> to the to the industry by our people
      and er some of the arrangements made through the recent er maori
      fisheries legislation

  <WSC#DGI055:0285:IP>
      we're getting somewhere are we with fisheries do you think

  <WSC#DGI055:0290:WW>
      well we um <O>tut</O> we're getting organised and er the initial
      ten percent is helpful er in that there is some guarantee of <O>voc</O>
      an amount of fish and the number of species available to us but
      um it's just the er the first step in ten steps to get us to a
      hundred percent

  <WSC#DGI055:0295:IP>
      <O>inhales</O> well whatarangi wonderful digressions here

  <WSC#DGI055:0300:IP>
      let's come back to to getting ready for the minister's <unclear>word</unclear>
      <indig=Maori>hui</indig=Maori> on television

  <WSC#DGI055:0305:IP>
      the maori council has called a a maori er <indig=Maori>hui</indig=Maori>
      er on friday and you're having it in auckland

  <WSC#DGI055:0310:IP>
      i guess er as i said this morning there's so much maori
      television people up there

  <WSC#DGI055:0315:IP>
      what's the purpose <&>8:00</&> of having a <indig=Maori>hui</indig=Maori>
      for maori on friday <,>

  <WSC#DGI055:0320:WW>
      we need to be er sure that the position taken by <indig=Maori>nga
      kaiwhaka pumau i te reo</indig=Maori> and er the new zealand
      maori council <O>swallows</O> er those two bodies are the
      claimants er that the position taken by these two bodies is
      understood

  <WSC#DGI055:0325:WW>
      um we need to assist our people to understand the nature of the
      television industry er the er er financing er requirements of
      the er industry the er technical developments within the er
      industry and we need to present what er we believe to be the
      requirements for the development of <indig=Maori>tikanga</indig=Maori>
      maori television

  <WSC#DGI055:0330:IP>
      what are they whata <&>9:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI055:0335:WW>
      <O>tut</O> well <O>tut</O> um <O>tut</O> we need er access to
      the frequencies <O>tut</O> and er <drawls>v</drawls> h f was the
      one we went after with the third television channel application

  <WSC#DGI055:0340:WW>
      now t v three got that er

  <WSC#DGI055:0345:WW>
      there are alternatives er though and er they need to be looked
      at

  <WSC#DGI055:0350:WW>
      that's er u h f in particular <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0355:IP>
      <?>can i</?> just stop with a b s er er

  <WSC#DGI055:0360:IP>
      t v three got it

  <WSC#DGI055:0365:IP>
      er you're hiding a lot when you say t v three got it er

  <WSC#DGI055:0370:IP>
      maori council spent i think over half a million dollars on that

  <WSC#DGI055:0375:IP>
      what's your summary of the fruit of that effort of a b s

  <WSC#DGI055:0380:IP>
      did it achieve anything

  <WSC#DGI055:0385:WW>
      <.>oh</.> <,> well you need to see it in two parts

  <WSC#DGI055:0390:WW>
      er one was the <O>voc</O> effort to <O>tut</O> win the third
      television channel and we were unsuccessful there but within
      that process er there were <&>10:00</&> some important steps and
      one was to get the broadcasting <.>comiss</.> er broadcasting
      corporation of new zealand the old b c n z to commit to the
      provision of equipment and funding for that a b s application

  <WSC#DGI055:0395:WW>
      now subsequently they withdrew they backed out on that deal but
      it did set a standard

  <WSC#DGI055:0400:WW>
      it er said that's here the major broadcasting agent of the crown
      saying yes there should be maori television and they were
      prepared to support it

  <WSC#DGI055:0405:WW>
      they subsequently decided that they couldn't afford it <,> <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0410:WW>
      now that er gave er prominence to the er maori claim for for
      television and for a <?>full</?> channel and the three er
      requirements were access as i mentioned a moment ago to the
      appropriate frequency er secondly funding in order to work that
      frequency and the third autonomy doing it ourselves <latch>
      <&>11:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI055:0415:IP>
      <.>h</.> <.>h</.> how much funding <,> <O>tut</O> is <{><[>needed</[>

  <WSC#DGI055:0420:WW>
      <[>well</[></{> there are two parts to that and one is the
      capital requirement <{><[>and</[>

  <WSC#DGI055:0425:IP>
      <[>it</[></{> has to build the machinery <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0430:WW>
      yep that's to get the machinery and to <O>swallows</O> perhaps
      put up a building and or to er acquire <O>tut</O> outside
      broadcast er units get the er cameras that are necessary and so
      on broadcasting studios um and then er there is the annual
      operating er costs <O>voc</O> <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0435:WW>
      the <,> the best option available to us now i believe is to seek
      to acquire the assets of t v three

  <WSC#DGI055:0440:WW>
      it's a full channel

  <WSC#DGI055:0445:WW>
      it's er limping along <.>s</.>

  <WSC#DGI055:0450:WW>
      it er we'd be able to buy those assets at a MODEST price
      compared with what it would cost to start <&>12:00</&> from
      scratch <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0455:WW>
      the annual operating costs are fairly substantial <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI055:0460:WW>
      i would put those in the er neighbourhood of ninety million
      dollars <,> all up annually to run a full channel so where would
      we get that money from

  <WSC#DGI055:0465:IP>
      yes it's it's difficult isn't it in the current environment

  <WSC#DGI055:0470:IP>
      radio new zealand is collapsing for the want of four million
      without help from ministers

  <WSC#DGI055:0475:IP>
      their total budget er for noncommercial radio about twenty seven
      twenty nine million

  <WSC#DGI055:0480:IP>
      you're wanting ninety million for a new maori channel

  <WSC#DGI055:0485:WW>
      well it would need to come from two or three er different
      sources

  <WSC#DGI055:0490:WW>
      if t v three went off the air then its er revenues would go to
      <,> television new zealand <,> and its <.>r</.> current revenues
      are in the neighbourhood of sixty million

  <WSC#DGI055:0495:IP>
      you're saying that if t v three went off air <.>r</.> t v <{><[>n
      z</[> would get more advertising as a result <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0500:WW>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0505:WW>
      yes yes it would <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0510:IP>
      and make more money

  <WSC#DGI055:0515:WW>
      yep <O>tut</O> and i er the appropriate approach <&>13:00</&>
      would be to put a levy on t v one and t v two

  <WSC#DGI055:0520:WW>
      now that sort of thing is done elsewhere

  <WSC#DGI055:0525:WW>
      the commercial television channels er levy of fifteen percent
      <O>swallows</O> would er would be reasonable here and that would
      er produce sixty or seventy million dollars <O>tut</O> and they
      would er charge their their advertising people accordingly

  <WSC#DGI055:0530:WW>
      the revenues er that t v three are getting now would be gotten
      by somebody else and that would be t v one and t v two unless um
      unless er our channel having taken over t v three er continued
      to have sponsorships and advertising which it might do if it
      steadily phased in maori programming

  <WSC#DGI055:0535:IP>
      so it would keep the pakeha programme and pakeha staff <.>t</.>
      <.>a</.> <.>a</.> and be a maori concern with er phasing in
      maori programming <{><[>later on</[> <&>14:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI055:0540:WW>
      <[>well</[></{> i'd see it taking place over two or three years
      er piripi

  <WSC#DGI055:0545:WW>
      you could start with all of the continue all of the best
      programmes of of t v three <latch>

  <WSC#DGI055:0550:IP>
      bill ralston

  <WSC#DGI055:0555:WW>
      well <{><[>i don't know about bill ralston but well the er er</[>
      the good programmes those that that that are that attract er the
      listenership and and therefore that advertisers want to pay to
      have their products associated with

  <WSC#DGI055:0560:WW>
      if you keep that on phase er phase in a maori presence over a a
      couple of years and er and er change the er staff er steadily
      because there are people leaving all the time and you'd
      gradually work in maori staff and after two or three years we'd
      have a a maori channel

  <WSC#DGI055:0565:IP>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI055:0570:IP>
      <indig=Maori>kia ora</indig=Maori> whata

  <WSC#DGI055:0575:IP>
      well interesting well er listeners if you want to join us

  <WSC#DGI055:0580:IP>
      whata's got to leave us in a couple of moments later on before
      midday

  <WSC#DGI055:0585:IP>
      the next thirty five minutes we have to talk to ripeka evans

  <WSC#DGI055:0590:IP>
      whata will be with us just for a moment or two

  <WSC#DGI055:0595:IP>
      that number's seven three two nine eight oh

  <WSC#DGI055:0600:IP>
      don't worry about bill ralston

  <WSC#DGI055:0605:IP>
      <.>he</.> he asks for it

  <WSC#DGI055:0610:IP>
      <{><[><indig=Maori>kia ora</indig=Maori></[> <indig=Maori><?>tatou</?></indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DGI055:0615:WW>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{> <&>15:00</&> <&>end of sample</&>
</I>
