<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:56</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI085:0005:JM>
      i would've said probably in those days that what i was looking
      for was god or you know um <,> <O>tut</O> i i felt there was
      sort of i felt <.>th</.> that i had kind of got out of touch
      with my feelings in a way because um i'd got very intellectual
      in in those days <.>d</.> <.>d</.> as the sort of teaching thing
      went on and um <O>tut</O> in the process i i think i <.>l</.> i
      kind of lost a bit of balance inside myself

  <WSC#DGI085:0010:JM>
      i wasn't aware of i mean this is how it looks from <.>h</.> here
      looking back

  <WSC#DGI085:0015:JM>
      i wasn't quite aware of that then but i felt you know that er um
      well i just felt i needed something that er that i <.>wa</.> you
      know i well it wasn't didn't seem to be there

  <WSC#DGI085:0020:JM>
      i mean in in hindsight now i realise that it was there all along
      of course

  <WSC#DGI085:0025:JM>
      it was just that i had sort of lost touch with it

  <WSC#DGI085:0030:IM>
      <.>w</.> were you were you filling a gap were you was was it
      something like that at that time <&>2:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI085:0035:JM>
      well i i thought it it was er i mean it <.>w</.> it was <,> a
      quite a profound sort of <,> point in my life um <,> where i
      suppose for the first time i i i began to take my life really
      seriously um <,>

  <WSC#DGI085:0040:JM>
      i <,> yeah i would have said it was a gap i yeah i felt it

  <WSC#DGI085:0045:JM>
      i i'd had also for instance i'd had quite a lot of relationships
      um which had failed to sort of satisfy me

  <WSC#DGI085:0050:JM>
      it was almost you know various things had happened that i
      thought would give one satisfaction and that they didn't so you
      know for instance i bought a house and i thought oh when i buy
      this house i'm going to feel sort of fulfilled in a way you know

  <WSC#DGI085:0055:JM>
      i i'll it'll <.>no</.> <.>n</.> didn't happen at all and um er
      you know you you'd write the music and the pieces would get
      performed and so on and <O>voc</O> while it was all happening
      sort of yes it's very satisfying but afterwards it's <&>3:00</&>
      sort of oh you know it was all gone and and oh so unsatisfying
      relationships and just all <,> i i was wondering why i still
      felt you know <.>th</.> there was <.>s</.> something not quite
      hooked up

  <WSC#DGI085:0060:IM>
      course outwardly you seemed to be you were very successful <{><[>weren't
      you</[> HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL

  <WSC#DGI085:0065:JM>
      <[>oh good <?>god</?></[></{> yes but outwardly i mean what is
      <.>outw</.> see in i mean i was <.>ver</.> i was especially when
      you're young you know you you you you have to seem to have it
      all together er at least that's what you <.>th</.> that's what i
      you know and i i was pretty good <,> um at <.>co</.> you know at
      covering up my <,> well uncertainties if you like

  <WSC#DGI085:0070:JM>
      i mean you er er it would never do to show that er one was maybe
      <O>laughs</O> in a bit of a mess um <,> and i that's why i mean
      teaching for me became quite a a sort of trial because i had to
      always i thought that i had to always appear like completely in
      charge in control of my my material and you <&>4:00</&> know
      seem to know what i was talking about

  <WSC#DGI085:0075:JM>
      well er er i mean when it comes to a subject like music i mean
      it's just er <.>absolute</.> very hard thing to talk about and
      and only a fool can <laughs>imagine that he has to</laughs> sort
      of know everything that he's talking about because it's an
      enormous subject and er so it seems like that

  <WSC#DGI085:0080:JM>
      you know things that i thought that i ought to be able to do and
      couldn't do and just had to spend lots of years subsequently
      finding out where the limits of words and things really are and
      that there ARE things that we'll never be able to talk about
      very successfully

  <WSC#DGI085:0085:IM>
      so at that time <,> <.>y</.> did you fill the gap or did you
      think you'd filled the gap at that stage by er your exploration
      of the divine light mission

  <WSC#DGI085:0090:JM>
      um yeah well it <.>g</.> it it certainly gave me um what i was
      looking for mostly through a quite a lot of <laughs><&>5:00</&>
      unpleasant experiences</laughs>

  <WSC#DGI085:0095:JM>
      this was sort of um <,> i'd i started to meditate and i took
      this <.>v</.> very seriously um but er mostly what i experienced
      in my meditations was sort of er er a gradual realising of <.>w</.>
      what a <laughs>real twit i really was</laughs>

  <WSC#DGI085:0100:JM>
      you know i've er i sort of one begins to see one's own
      shortcomings

  <WSC#DGI085:0105:JM>
      i mean i i up until that point really i don't think i'd ever
      seriously examined myself you know

  <WSC#DGI085:0110:JM>
      i just <.>ha</.> i i had <.>s</.> <.>s</.> taken sort of so much
      for granted um <,> and when i did sort of sit down and i mean i
      i i i meditated for oh eight or nine years um and whenever i go
      into anything i've always gone in to sort of boots and all you
      know heave ho just jump in and and just really go for it

  <WSC#DGI085:0115:JM>
      you know it's it's been a matter of extremes like that for me
      but i can't <&>6:00</&> help it that's the sort of person i am
      um and of course when you do that i mean you learn the lessons
      you you learn are are extremely painful but er you learn them
      very well you know um and so the whole the the whole experience
      of that <O>tut</O> <O>tut</O> i would <.>th</.> it gave me a <.>k</.>
      a <,> a kind of i got my feet on the ground

  <WSC#DGI085:0120:JM>
      it gave me it gave me something so solid that it's er completely
      part of me you know

  <WSC#DGI085:0125:JM>
      i don't even think about it now

  <WSC#DGI085:0130:JM>
      i mean i don't formally meditate i haven't done that for years
      but then the whole experience of meditation just kind of became
      part of me

  <WSC#DGI085:0135:IM>
      so it's <,> er well can we describe it as an attitudinal thing

  <WSC#DGI085:0140:IM>
      it's part of your attitude to life now

  <WSC#DGI085:0145:JM>
      well i wouldn't even say that i have an attitude to life

  <WSC#DGI085:0150:JM>
      i mean i've got my life and me are just one thing um

  <WSC#DGI085:0155:JM>
      i think to even say that you have an attitude to life or have a
      philosophy is to kind of <&>7:00</&> set er is to kind of make a
      division <,> whereas um <O>tut</O> if what you <.>i</.> if <,>
      it's got to be real <O>tut</O> it's got to be i mean <,> er it
      er what you believe is not nearly so important as what you are
      um and er what you are it <.>m</.> may start out as being a
      consequence of certain beliefs but what i find with beliefs and
      attitudes is is that they <O>tut</O> they constantly change

  <WSC#DGI085:0160:JM>
      you can take up one you know you take up one approach and as you
      work your way through it you get to the other side of it and you
      begin to see what was missing in that that it wasn't
      satisfactory you know there's wasn't quite enough to it so then
      you have to sort of examine all the other possibilities and then
      you you find yourself maybe doing complete about face and
      working your way through the opposite and er i i mean whilst i
      was still sort of thinking in terms of what do i believe in um
      <O>tut</O> this just happened to me over and <&>8:00</&> over
      and over and over again so that if you you know if you're sort
      of aiming towards er what you conceive to be the ultimate i mean
      when you're when you're shall we say spiritually young like in
      kindergarten <O>voc</O> at first it's all just wonderful cos
      you're having a lot of positive things happen in your life
      usually when you get into something like that and you <.>th</.>
      and then you begin to think ah i understand it you know i know
      it all and i mean this is just a trade mark of every every um
      enthusiast shall we say i won't quite go so far as to say
      fanatic but the thing is that that the moment you do start to
      take your life seriously powerful things certainly begin to
      happen to you and er <latch>

  <WSC#DGI085:0165:IM>
      can you give me an example of <latch>

  <WSC#DGI085:0170:JM>
      oh well there are so many and i don't like even talking about
      them because it <.>i</.> you know <.>i</.> it it's it's not
      doesn't matter what they are

  <WSC#DGI085:0175:JM>
      they're different you know they'll be sort of <&>8:00</&>
      specifically different for every person but it's the effect of
      them that's important

  <WSC#DGI085:0180:JM>
      it <.>grou</.> it grounds you it directs you it makes you <,> it
      makes you solid finally you know because those experiences HAVE
      to be powerful to kind of make you realise that there is a LOT
      to learn

  <WSC#DGI085:0185:IM>
      almost what we're doing now to some extent is abetting this
      exercise because we're talking in words about experiences that
      are um already impossible to put into words but we're sort of
      scratching <laughs>around the surface</laughs> to some extent
      but but you are discovering in a in a way who you are and this
      is something that goes on all your life i <{><[><?>presume</?></[>

  <WSC#DGI085:0190:JM>
      <[><O>coughs</O></[></{> well er i i for for me it all it sort
      of it finally ended up that the questions all went away and
      everything became focused back on music and see now i'm i mean
      er er i was always a musician er but <.>i</.> in in the earlier
      days when i felt that you know it <.>w</.> it <&>10:00</&> it
      that the rewards of music and so on weren't permanent um er it's
      it's sort of very much changed for me

  <WSC#DGI085:0195:JM>
      i've become <.>m</.> er like er er just completely focused into
      my work now and my <.>p</.> my personal i don't have any
      personal questions really

  <WSC#DGI085:0200:JM>
      i mean i <.>s</.> i you can't talk about things i don't even
      like the word god

  <WSC#DGI085:0205:JM>
      i just find it a very unhelpful word um but there just comes a
      point where you realise there's just you can't there's <.>n</.>
      there's nothing you can really say about that

  <WSC#DGI085:0210:JM>
      you you have to if you haven't got it in your own soul there's
      no <.>w</.> what you believe what you talk about isn't going to
      help um and once you have it then you can just sort of get on
      with what i feel you know you're really meant to be doing

  <WSC#DGI085:0215:JM>
      i'm meant to be doing music

  <WSC#DGI085:0220:JM>
      there's no doubt in my mind about that so it's sort of right
      morning to night now every day is i just get up and i work all
      day and er <,> that's it you know no questions <.>da</.> and and
      and the <.>wa</.> rewards are in the work <,> you know it's not
      as though you do something and expect later to have something
      <&>11:00</&> back from it

  <WSC#DGI085:0225:IM>
      is that it's something that's um dynamic and is happening all
      the time

  <WSC#DGI085:0230:JM>
      yeah <O>tut</O> yeah it's the um in the last sort of three years
      i mean it's been a quite a long journey for <laughs>me</laughs>

  <WSC#DGI085:0235:JM>
      er it's only in the last sort of three years that er <,> um i
      i've i've found a kind of <.>s</.> steadiness you know because
      i've been through <laughs>so many</laughs> changes you know ups
      and downs

  <WSC#DGI085:0240:JM>
      it's quite oh oh alarming i mean to go through those things if
      you haven't if you haven't got something solid <,> and and once
      you have you know you you just <,> no questions no can get on so
      i think everyone's got something in their life that there that
      is for them to do and to find that once you've found that then
      all you can just forget about the question you can forget about
      the philosophy and you don't <&>12:00</&> have to talk about god
      and all this because you you with every breath <.>you</.> you're
      kind of connected up with your own life

  <WSC#DGI085:0245:IM>
      and you're on the right road at least i mean that is as we said
      before dynamic

  <WSC#DGI085:0250:IM>
      it's something that continues day by day moment by moment

  <WSC#DGI085:0255:JM>
      absolutely i mean you you i mean who can ever know that they're
      on the RIGHT what is the RIGHT i mean <.>th</.> it's a different
      road for everyone um

  <WSC#DGI085:0260:JM>
      i think it's probably the right <laughs>road</laughs> when you
      when you stop worrying about it and just get on with it um but i
      don't i mean often i'm STUCK in my work you know

  <WSC#DGI085:0265:JM>
      i i get to points where i wonder you know have i sort of i mean
      i'm talking completely sort of technically now

  <WSC#DGI085:0270:JM>
      have i have i sort of been attacking this musical problem and
      and has the way i've been approaching it been been er maybe i've
      just been wasting my time with that approach then maybe i'll try
      another one um but you see it's all those problems which were
      formerly in my life are now <&>13:00</&> just in my work <,> you
      know because you might think past in in in about your life like
      that

  <WSC#DGI085:0275:JM>
      have i been sort of approaching things in the right way

  <WSC#DGI085:0280:JM>
      i mean <.>th</.> this is the way i sort of questioned yourself
      questioned myself for years er this and that and and and but now
      somehow some i can't explain it but it's all got turned into art
      <,>

  <WSC#DGI085:0285:JM>
      my whole being is <.>ab</.> is absorbed by art not just my art
      not just music but all kinds you know painting um <O>tut</O>
      books

  <WSC#DGI085:0290:IM>
      being creative

  <WSC#DGI085:0295:JM>
      well yes because that seems to me where where the crunch really
      is because the the artists i mean our work is spiritual

  <WSC#DGI085:0300:JM>
      that's what we do <,>

  <WSC#DGI085:0305:JM>
      um in a sense we're sort of guardians of the spirit but we we i
      mean artists create <,> new spirit too <,>

  <WSC#DGI085:0310:JM>
      um it's a fantastic responsibility really wonderful <&>14:04</&>
</I>
