<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>introduction not transcribed</&>
  <&>8:30</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI113:0005:IW>
      now he's come up with kiwi mathematics an innovative teaching
      method for PARENTS to use to help children er master their
      tables and basic maths work skills

  <WSC#DGI113:0010:IW>
      des is with me this afternoon in auckland

  <WSC#DGI113:0015:IW>
      thanks for coming in des

  <WSC#DGI113:0020:IW>
      good afternoon to you <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0025:DR>
      good afternoon wayne

  <WSC#DGI113:0030:IW>
      well why did you develop kiwi mathematics first off

  <WSC#DGI113:0035:DR>
      well over <O>tut</O> the years with my own children er seven of
      them from two marriages i had developed a way of helping them
      with their tables and basic maths which was was very effective
      and on retiring i thought why not help other parents by making
      this <.>m</.> method available to them because i HAD gathered as
      i think most other parents and people in new zealand <.>do</.>
      have that er this is an area of some weakness for many of our
      children

  <WSC#DGI113:0040:IW>
      any idea why that is?

  <WSC#DGI113:0045:DR>
      no er <,> i DO have some beliefs as to ways that it could be
      remedied

  <WSC#DGI113:0050:DR>
      i <.>d</.> i DO think that for example i've been up to singapore
      recently and i KNOW that parents there spend a lot of time have
      a lot of interest in helping their kids with their maths and
      with their school work generally and i DO think that our parents
      er present day parents like the <.>th</.> like their parents
      before them have to pitch in and help teachers <.>suppl</.>
      supplement what <,> teachers do <&>10:00</&> in class by helping
      kids with their tables at home er and i think the problem there
      is that many parents don't really have a very good way or or
      unsure <.>h</.> how to do that and that's what my methods <,> um
      set about trying to do <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0055:IW>
      right

  <WSC#DGI113:0060:IW>
      is it because parents think oh this new maths i can't cope with
      this

  <WSC#DGI113:0065:IW>
      i'll stay right out of this

  <WSC#DGI113:0070:IW>
      they'll learn it in the class

  <WSC#DGI113:0075:IW>
      is it a reflection on them <{><[>or</[> is it the teaching
      methods being used

  <WSC#DGI113:0080:DR>
      <[><O>voc</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0085:DR>
      um

  <WSC#DGI113:0090:DR>
      <{><[>i don't think it</[> <.>th</.> the the level of <.>s</.>
      work <O>voc</O> the level of maths that i have interest in the
      tables and basic skills <.>r</.> really are at quite a <.>l</.>
      <.>s</.> low level that any parent <.>r</.> most parents should
      be able to help their children there and the new maths thing
      doesn't really cut across that at all <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0095:IW>
      <[>or a reflection of both?</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0100:IW>
      mm parents don't realise then just how bad the situation is from
      with this this basic maths skills

  <WSC#DGI113:0105:IW>
      is that what you're <{><[>saying</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0110:DR>
      <[><drawls>well</drawls></[></{> <,> all i can really say there
      is that from talking to teachers i hear from teachers
      particularly <&>11:00</&> intermediate school teachers that er
      they are quite disturbed at the start of each new school year
      with what they are getting oh er <.>fr</.> in the way of
      capability from their <.>childr</.> from the new intake coming
      in <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0115:IW>
      mhm <,> so what is the learning programme all about then des

  <WSC#DGI113:0120:IW>
      is <.>th</.> it's basic facts is it with er with addition and
      subtraction <,> <{1><[1>division</[1> and multiplication is <{2><[2>it</[2>

  <WSC#DGI113:0125:DR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGI113:0130:DR>
      <[2>well</[2></{2> basic facts add multiply subtract and divide
      um

  <WSC#DGI113:0135:DR>
      do you want me to say something about my own method <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0140:IW>
      well i DO really because <.>i</.> just so we can get an idea of
      how how it works

  <WSC#DGI113:0145:IW>
      i mean WHY why it's a little bit <{><[>different</[> from what
      er what WE perhaps learnt <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0150:DR>
      <[><?>yes</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0155:DR>
      well in overview first of all i <.>di</.> um <,> <.>th</.> the
      main <,> er features of my method are first that there's an
      error free method used and that means that at the learning stage
      of this children actually learn their tables without making ANY
      mistakes um

  <WSC#DGI113:0160:DR>
      it's a bit hard to explain on the <.>ai</.> over the air wayne
      but <&>12:00</&> there is a a built in way that er answers are
      provided to children at the point where they're stuck for them
      so that instead of making a mistake they write in the correct
      answer and as they do this a number of times they come to need
      that crutch less and less and and <.>qu</.> quite quickly in
      fact discard it and they actually learn their tables without
      making any mistakes or practically any <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0165:IW>
      what is it a learning by rote sort of <.>th</.> <{><[>situation</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0170:DR>
      <[><drawls>um</drawls></[></{> it is certainly a <.>r</.> a <.>r</.>
      a repetitive er drill TYPE of a method and that's absolutely
      necessary for <.>th</.> in in this particular area then um <.>s</.>
      um the second main feature would be after the error free would
      be er the <,> type of progress chart that is available

  <WSC#DGI113:0175:DR>
      now children will usually be doing three exercises at a time and
      that gives them the opportunity to improve from one to the other
      either in terms of <&>13:00</&> accuracy or in terms of speed
      and there is a VERY neat little way that children record their
      own results write them in and they can see in the course of a
      single evening the progress which they make and that that is
      exciting for them and motivating for them and they want to come
      back the next night and and work to get up to a better level
      still <O>tut</O> and <.>th</.> i think the third feature of my
      method is that it is it is very systematic er

  <WSC#DGI113:0180:DR>
      if parents will use it properly if they go step by step er it it
      it takes children all the way to er well my aim is to develop
      all children to a level of individual excellence <,> er so it's
      this <.>th</.> the programme is NOT just for children who are
      behind er who are slow or behind with their tables

  <WSC#DGI113:0185:DR>
      it's for ALL children even the good ones

  <WSC#DGI113:0190:DR>
      even <?>the</?> child you might think is good could probably be
      two or three or four times faster <&>14:00</&> and that's a
      tremendous help if the kid gets on to say intermediate school or
      <.>i</.> or if the kid gets to taking part in a mathex
      competition where they're working on their thinking hard on
      their feet and wanting to figure hard and quick on their feet
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0195:IW>
      is it is it <.>mo</.> is it more work or i mean cos they're
      doing their own work anyways is this an addition or is this
      built in to be part of it

  <WSC#DGI113:0200:IW>
      do you know what i mean by that des

  <WSC#DGI113:0205:IW>
      <{><[>i mean</[> is it adding is it an extra workload on these
      young students

  <WSC#DGI113:0210:DR>
      <[><O>voc</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0215:DR>
      well it IS er <,> <?>but</?> it's designed to take very little
      time um

  <WSC#DGI113:0220:DR>
      ten minutes a night three or four nights a week isn't much at
      the <.>a</.> when kids are say er about er seven eight nine
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0225:IW>
      so that's who it's for that age group <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0230:DR>
      that's it er essentially but then most of our kids will still
      benefit from this at eleven twelve or even thirteen and in fact
      there's high school kids um and <.>h</.> who who perhaps <&>pronounced
      as prap</&> even fifth formers i find fifth formers <&>15:00</&>
      <O>coughs</O> or headmasters telling me that their fifth formers
      are shot in their basics and need to do remedial work there
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0235:IW>
      mm so it's so is it backing up the what's going on in the <{><[>classroom</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0240:DR>
      <[><.>a</.> oh</[></{> absolutely it's backing that up

  <WSC#DGI113:0245:IW>
      <{><[>okay</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0250:DR>
      <[>er <.>r</.></[></{> really i've got a lot of sympathy for
      teachers because they do not have the time the <.>in</.> to give
      children the individual attention which they need in this area
      and i think that that parents MUST be involved

  <WSC#DGI113:0255:IW>
      so parents are letting down their <.>t</.> their their children
      is <{><[>that <mumbles>what you're saying</mumbles></[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0260:DR>
      <[><.>i</.> if</[></{> <?>if</?> they don't yep

  <WSC#DGI113:0265:IW>
      so how did you go about developing it

  <WSC#DGI113:0270:IW>
      i mean how did you know what content was required

  <WSC#DGI113:0275:DR>
      oh that was <.>i</.> i guess my clinical psychology and research
      background made it easy for me to devise a a method <drawls>and</drawls>
      um the content that's easy enough because <O>voc</O> add
      multiply subtract divide

  <WSC#DGI113:0280:DR>
      the the the the basic facts area's very a very defined one

  <WSC#DGI113:0285:DR>
      it's one of the easiest ones to define and it's also one of the
      easiest to um to measure the results and er <&>16:00</&> this is
      where <.>ag</.> again an <.>a</.> an area that i'd like to see
      developed

  <WSC#DGI113:0290:DR>
      i'd like parents to know <?>at</?> the end of a school year in
      fact at the beginning of a school year i'd like them to know
      quantitatively and qualitatively where their kids are at <{><[>with</[>
      their tables because at present they don't

  <WSC#DGI113:0295:IW>
      <[><quietly>mm</quietly></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0300:IW>
      mhm <O>tut</O> and um it's parent friendly obviously

  <WSC#DGI113:0305:IW>
      <{1><[1>this is this</[1> is another <{2><[2><O>laughs</O></[2>
      as i have <laughs>said before</laughs> a lot of parents oh no no
      you no i don't want a they'll i'll only teach my <,> old methods
      and that's not the way you should go

  <WSC#DGI113:0310:DR>
      <[1>oh yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGI113:0315:DR>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGI113:0320:DR>
      yes it's it's designed to be easy to administer and fun for the
      kids to do

  <WSC#DGI113:0325:IW>
      is revision an area where many students today fall by the
      wayside des <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0330:DR>
      oh very much um <,,>

  <WSC#DGI113:0335:DR>
      my method divides the this whole area into three parts

  <WSC#DGI113:0340:DR>
      the first is the new learning that i referred to

  <WSC#DGI113:0345:DR>
      the second is revision consolidation and the third is the expert
      stage <&>17:00</&> and er revision <O>voc</O> is over for a
      period of probably three or four years it's essential that kids
      revise revise revise because this stuff just can slip away from
      them without that

  <WSC#DGI113:0350:IW>
      so um how do you encourage that i mean revision <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DGI113:0355:IW>
      it's up to the <.>in</.> individual surely

  <WSC#DGI113:0360:IW>
      only only the individual <,> <{1><[1>you know can</[1> <.>d</.>
      can do can do that to reap the benefits <{2><[2>as i keep he
      says</[2> as he <laughs>keeps telling his <{3><[3>children</[3>
      <,> but i don't think</laughs> they're listening

  <WSC#DGI113:0365:DR>
      <[1><drawls>well</drawls></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGI113:0370:DR>
      <[2>yes well parents</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGI113:0375:DR>
      <[3><O>laughs</O></[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGI113:0380:DR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0385:IW>
      so <,> <O>voc</O> you know i mean how does it work with this is
      <O>voc</O> do you work this <.>ou</.> all out on separate tables
      for example <.>w</.> <.>y</.> your with your method

  <WSC#DGI113:0390:DR>
      um <,> probably the easiest way i can <,> <.>ex</.> explain that
      is the way that i work it with my own kids

  <WSC#DGI113:0395:DR>
      now i've got a nine year old for example or last year when he
      was eight the way i used this method was in parallel with what
      was happening at school if um i don't like yeah if the boy came
      home as for example one time and i found he was working on his
      four times <&>18:00</&> they'd started their four times table at
      school <{><[>then</[> i would take this i would do exactly the
      same table at home with him and he would work through first of
      all learning his four times table then going to the next stage
      consolidating er it and working up to a very good speed with it
      er to an expert <.>le</.> speed level with that and then i would
      leave that perhaps do a little revision of other tables that
      we'd learned and then i would wait until he <.>came</.> there
      was an indication that they were doing some other table at
      school

  <WSC#DGI113:0400:DR>
      that's how i how I use it <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0405:IW>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0410:IW>
      so it's getting back to the old tried and true methods in a way

  <WSC#DGI113:0415:IW>
      i remember the days <,> teacher running the finger up the <.>ment</.>
      you know the mental <,> arithmetic and we had to yell out the
      right number otherwise it was curtains

  <WSC#DGI113:0420:DR>
      <.>w</.> yes well in in some ways yes er but <.>th</.> <O>voc</O>
      my methods DO differ <.>qu</.> <.>su</.> <.>f</.> FAIRly
      substantially from the old way um

  <WSC#DGI113:0425:DR>
      <.>y</.> i guess myself as a kid and many of us older people
      would've learnt you know <sings>two twos are <&>19:00</&> four
      two threes are six</sings>

  <WSC#DGI113:0430:DR>
      we always getting the table in the same sort of order and
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0435:IW>
      right <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0440:DR>
      and if we wanted to find out what seven eights were we'd perhaps
      have to think what seven sixes were and then what seven sevens
      were what seven eights were er

  <WSC#DGI113:0445:DR>
      this method gets right totally away from that er <{><[>and that</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0450:IW>
      <[>in what</[></{> way

  <WSC#DGI113:0455:IW>
      how do you how do you do it then <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0460:DR>
      the even from the start all of the er <.>w</.> take it a <.>t</.>
      a <.>t</.> table at a time but um the the facts in the table are
      always in a different order

  <WSC#DGI113:0465:DR>
      the children'll still learn them that way but they will never
      learn them in a in a but they do not generally learn them in a
      sequential order but they WILL have done that previously in
      class as <{><[>part</[> of the er preparation for work with
      tables and i i DO want to say on that point that the
      understanding er <,> aspect of <.>t</.> of table work is
      ABsolutely vital and that's where teachers play an eNORmous part
      in developing that understanding by concrete experience and
      <&>20:00</&> teaching and <.>f</.> for the several years before
      children actually get to the point of being ready for <.>t</.>
      work with tables <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0470:IW>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0475:IW>
      i would've thought it'd be easier to learn by rote just
      following on you know and just just going up a step each time
      but you're not you're saying that you <{><[>don't feel that way
      about it</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0480:DR>
      <[>well <.>th</.> <.>th</.> that</[></{> there's nothing wrong
      with that but er er <.>th</.> the proof of the pudding is in the
      eating and er if you check out the <?>you</?> <.>ac</.> the
      results with children that you're using different methods then
      that's when you find that a particular method is particularly
      good um

  <WSC#DGI113:0485:DR>
      i i'll just mention one <,> at the expert <.>le</.> i haven't
      talked at all about the expert level and um <,> at that point
      <,> instead of a child doing say a four times exercise um <,> it
      may switch to him doing a forty times exercise

  <WSC#DGI113:0490:DR>
      that count that's a very <&>21:00</&> easy switch and once the
      <.>chi</.> and quite exciting for the child and then from forty
      times <.>th</.> the the next thing the child can go to forty six
      times um

  <WSC#DGI113:0495:DR>
      there's also at that stage they can do do er pattern jobs like
      adding instead of adding seven they'll add seven <.>t</.> seven
      plus the first exercise seventeen plus the second and twenty
      seven plus the third <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0500:IW>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0505:DR>
      and so on and so on

  <WSC#DGI113:0510:DR>
      i oh i i won't say any more about that

  <WSC#DGI113:0515:DR>
      <{><[>it's a bit complex</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0520:IW>
      <[>okay i just</[></{> well that's what i mean

  <WSC#DGI113:0525:IW>
      is <.>i</.> is is is it SOUNDS as though it's a bit more bit bit
      complicated and adds adds a BIT MORE for the youngsters to take
      in <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0530:DR>
      at the expert level er <.>i</.> that is so

  <WSC#DGI113:0535:DR>
      at the beginning and um speed and accuracy level it's very very
      simple <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0540:IW>
      i wanted to know why this simplicity of the method it teaches
      youngsters to grasp the basic facts where other methods perhaps
      are not you know not doing the job

  <WSC#DGI113:0545:DR>
      um it's partly the simplicity

  <WSC#DGI113:0550:DR>
      it's partly actually the aMOUNT of work because kids
      <&>22:00</&> get <.>th</.> in in ten minutes with this they <.>g</.>
      getting through a treMENdous amount of work

  <WSC#DGI113:0555:IW>
      mhm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0560:DR>
      and they just are bound to learn if er <.>i</.> if that is
      followed through um so <.>i</.> yes i think that is a big aspect
      the the <.>shee</.> although it's only ten minutes they get
      through a treMENdous amount of work in a single night

  <WSC#DGI113:0565:IW>
      right so is it's basic skills tables not changing the face of
      mathematics as a whole

  <WSC#DGI113:0570:DR>
      certainly not <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0575:IW>
      <[>well over</[></{> three three hundred schools have purchased
      the programme in less than what a year since it's been going now
      is it des? <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0580:DR>
      er over four hundred now <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0585:IW>
      oh is it

  <WSC#DGI113:0590:DR>
      um yes <,> about er particularly in north auckland it's <.>be</.>
      taken over very strongly er <,>

  <WSC#DGI113:0595:DR>
      the south island i haven't really got to yet <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0600:IW>
      <.>wi</.> with what sort of results

  <WSC#DGI113:0605:DR>
      well er <O>voc</O> the main thing with the northland thing is
      that it seems to be spreading by word of mouth <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0610:IW>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0615:DR>
      i don't have facts and figures on the on the improvement that
      has been shown er <&>23:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI113:0620:DR>
      that's the sort of information that i would like to get <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0625:IW>
      and how does the ministry of education feel about the programme
      being used in schools or or the school boards

  <WSC#DGI113:0630:DR>
      er very encouraging very supportive er for example the auckland
      maths education consultants um heartily recommend the method and
      the <.>r</.> the recording practices er

  <WSC#DGI113:0635:DR>
      i've got something in front of me that says your programme will
      greatly assist most children to achieve the goal of recall <&>pronounced
      as reCALL</&> mastery in the basic facts so er they've been i've
      consulted them along the way and they have been most supportive

  <WSC#DGI113:0640:IW>
      and what about um outside of new zealand des

  <WSC#DGI113:0645:IW>
      any any countries showing an interest in that <{><[>in the
      programme</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0650:DR>
      <[>i have been</[></{> i HAVE just been up to singapore

  <WSC#DGI113:0655:DR>
      there was a book fair there last month and i took that
      opportunity to go up and er meet with some publishers and
      distributors er

  <WSC#DGI113:0660:DR>
      i also um was fortunate enough to get a time with the ministry
      people the curriculum er maths <&>24:00</&> curriculum people
      <.>i</.> in singapore um

  <WSC#DGI113:0665:DR>
      i met with five of the top experts

  <WSC#DGI113:0670:DR>
      i was very nervous i can tell you <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0675:IW>
      <laughs>yeah</laughs> <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0680:DR>
      but er that went particularly well <O>tut</O> and er as a result
      of that there are four companies for now that i'm preparing
      material for er and as soon as i have got it readied we'll be
      sending it through to them

  <WSC#DGI113:0685:DR>
      that's probably be two or three weeks

  <WSC#DGI113:0690:IW>
      now what's the cost

  <WSC#DGI113:0695:IW>
      we need to know the you know we live in a very commercial world

  <WSC#DGI113:0700:IW>
      we need to know the cost of things um more than EVER these <{><[>days</[>
      of classroom and homework procedure <.>o</.> <.>o</.> well of
      the basic

  <WSC#DGI113:0705:DR>
      <[>yep</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0710:DR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0715:IW>
      of the <unclear>word</unclear> i know it's a difficult thing to
      explain um on an interview and you're in one city and i'm in
      another <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0720:DR>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0725:IW>
      and i appreciate <?>what <.>yo</.></?> your efforts in trying to
      explain kiwi mathematics to us but <.>wha</.> what's what's the
      cost for maybe <,> <{><[>a a</[> programme for someone starting
      out

  <WSC#DGI113:0730:DR>
      <[>well</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0735:DR>
      for parents i have a package for parents and i have a package
      for teachers

  <WSC#DGI113:0740:DR>
      for parents if they have the full package which is four booklets
      er workbooks <&>25:00</&> covering add multiply subtract divide
      and a book of standard tests with a video that's fifty seven
      dollars and without the video it's forty five

  <WSC#DGI113:0745:IW>
      necessary to have the video?

  <WSC#DGI113:0750:DR>
      er it's not necessary but it gives um a great idea at the start
      what the thing is about far better than any talking that i can
      do or or better than people can get from reading the guide

  <WSC#DGI113:0755:DR>
      <{1><[1>they see</[1> in the video they'll see four kids going
      through their paces and it brings the thing to life

  <WSC#DGI113:0760:DR>
      at p t a meetings that i address it's always the video that er
      instantly arouses parent interest and er they're <.>a</.> <.>a</.>
      as excited as er as what <laughs><unclear>word</unclear></laughs>
      <{2><[2><O>laughs</O></[2>

  <WSC#DGI113:0765:IW>
      <[1>mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGI113:0770:IW>
      <[2>okay</[2></{2> well it seems as though retirement has led
      you into a booming second career

  <WSC#DGI113:0775:DR>
      <O>voc</O> that's right <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0780:IW>
      and i learn that you're developing a new game of outdoor cricket
      cum softball <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0785:DR>
      <O>laughs</O> <{><[><O>laughs</O></[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0790:IW>
      <[>how how far down the</[></{> track are you with THIS <{><[>enterprise</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0795:DR>
      <[><drawls>um</drawls></[></{> pretty well <.>n</.> now er wayne

  <WSC#DGI113:0800:DR>
      i've just started trialling it in schools um

  <WSC#DGI113:0805:DR>
      there are three auckland <.>s</.> three north shore schools that
      are <&>26:00</&> are are presently starting on it and i'm hoping
      to get five or six more er

  <WSC#DGI113:0810:DR>
      <{><[>it's</[>

  <WSC#DGI113:0815:IW>
      <[>it's</[></{> yeah <{><[>how's the</[> how's the trials going

  <WSC#DGI113:0820:IW>
      how's it working out

  <WSC#DGI113:0825:DR>
      <[>that</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0830:DR>
      well i had <.>tr</.> um what was the <,> um milford primary gave
      a um <.>h</.> <.>wh</.> a wild er rapturous er <,,> few words
      about it thought it was wonderful um

  <WSC#DGI113:0835:DR>
      i should could say that the reason it came about wayne was if if
      you've taken kids yourself to cricket

  <WSC#DGI113:0840:IW>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0845:DR>
      and you see the kids sitting around for half of the game

  <WSC#DGI113:0850:IW>
      yep

  <WSC#DGI113:0855:DR>
      it makes you think why on earth can't there be a game like that
      where the kids can be on the field the whole time so without
      going into the game too much because of the patenting etcetera
      side of it this game is designed that the kids er er all kids
      bat all kids bowl all kids field

  <WSC#DGI113:0860:DR>
      they all compete for possession so that instead of a hit they
      <.>g</.> they when the <.>whi</.> when the ball is hit er it's
      not just the other side <,> <&>27:00</&> going for it it's both
      sides going for it so <?>we've</?> got tremendous excitement
      there and there's a lot of other features too that i won't
      mention now <{><[>but it i <.>c</.></[> it IS a very exciting
      game and i'm sure kids are going to take to it

  <WSC#DGI113:0865:IW>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI113:0870:IW>
      big kids too by the sound of things <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0875:DR>
      eh? yes <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0880:IW>
      sounds like fun <,>

  <WSC#DGI113:0885:IW>
      thanks for the information des great talking to you today and
      thank you for coming into our studio in auckland <latch>

  <WSC#DGI113:0890:DR>
      it's a pleasure wayne <&>27:20</&> <&>end of extract</&>
</I>
