<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:20</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI151:0005:IM>
      <theme music>ramari stewart is her own kind of modern day woman

  <WSC#DGI151:0010:IM>
      she leads an adventurous but at times solitude life as ramari
      looks into the wonders of the natural environment

  <WSC#DGI151:0015:IM>
      our <indig=Maori>kaupapa</indig=Maori> takes off when ramari
      explains her <indig=Maori>hapu</indig=Maori> background</theme music>

  <WSC#DGI151:0020:RS>
      <?>i</?> originally came from near whakatane at er ohiwa ohiwa
      harbour

  <WSC#DGI151:0025:RS>
      um it's the area that i was raised in is now known as potohopi
      and i guess my early beginnings there fostered a lot of interest
      in natural history

  <WSC#DGI151:0030:RS>
      <.>m</.> my mother's <&>1:00</&> english so er on my <.>m</.> my
      father's side er there was ngati awa and ngati kahungunu <&>tape
      cuts out</&>

  <WSC#DGI151:0035:IM>
      <?>in</?> your drafted c v at the moment and looking at it it's
      really really <drawls>impressive</drawls> er it seems like i'm
      talking to a professional woman <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0040:IM>
      where <.>did</.> <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0045:RS>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0050:IM>
      where did this er need to it seems a voyage of discovery of a of
      a high calibre where did this come from

  <WSC#DGI151:0055:RS>
      well <O>voc</O> i left school and went into nursing as a
      profession and i saw that through at middlemore where i did my
      training and then postgrad

  <WSC#DGI151:0060:RS>
      i went into accident and emergency department and later
      intensive care so my interest there lay with clinical work er
      and finally when i left i went to polynesia

  <WSC#DGI151:0065:IM>
      and what made you leave the hospital area <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0070:RS>
      well i think i'd decided that er continued after registering and
      i really wanted to explore a lot of other interests in life and
      <&>2:00</&> i've always been interested especially in the marine
      environment

  <WSC#DGI151:0075:RS>
      er i think my mother said that i could swim before i could walk
      so because that interest was <.>al</.> always there <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0080:RS>
      when i went to polynesia i had also prior to that er at the age
      of eighteen um had taken up scuba diving so that i guess er led
      to my going to polynesia

  <WSC#DGI151:0085:RS>
      i was especially interested in the traditional fishing and i was
      lucky enough to to experience time in the outer islands where in
      those days that was in the midseventies um tongan fishermen were
      still luring different species and there were specialist
      families and the first er family that i went with um <&>tape
      cuts out</&> good at luring sharks <&>3:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI151:0090:IM>
      these are the big sharks big sharks <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0095:RS>
      yes it's it was quite an experience because women normally can't
      go out over the reef <,> on <.>fish</.> <{><[><?>and i</?></[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0100:IM>
      <[>is that</[></{> a tradition or is that <{><[><?>new</?></[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0105:RS>
      <[>on</[></{> fishing expeditions so there was a lot to be
      considered

  <WSC#DGI151:0110:RS>
      their concern was that hina who was the leading shark would be
      jealous and so they had to er there was quite a lot of ceremony
      involved women out in out in the canoes

  <WSC#DGI151:0115:IM>
      is hina a female shark <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0120:RS>
      yes

  <WSC#DGI151:0125:IM>
      <softly><unclear>word</unclear></softly> and is she the judas of
      the of the group

  <WSC#DGI151:0130:IM>
      does she lure them to the men

  <WSC#DGI151:0135:RS>
      maybe <O>laughs</O> <{><[><O>laughs</O></[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0140:RS>
      anyway they overcome this this problem and off we went and it
      was a very successful voyage and from then on the word went
      round round the islands <.>that</.> i guess i became a bit of a
      talisman <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0145:IM>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI151:0150:IM>
      <O>laughs</O> <latch> <&>4:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI151:0155:RS>
      and i lived with one or two other <.>eg</.> examples um <&>tape
      cuts out</&> the octopus people who lured the octopus

  <WSC#DGI151:0160:RS>
      i was fascinated by tongan carvings of the of the
      <foreign=Tongan>feke</foreign=Tongan>

  <WSC#DGI151:0165:RS>
      it always seemed to have a rat on its head and i was intrigued
      to know why and they said that's because the <.>o</.> the
      octopus disliked the rat <,> and the story goes that in the
      early days er a rat was swimming from one atoll to another and
      ran into difficulties and nearly drowned and it was the octopus
      who saved it by allowing it to sit on his head

  <WSC#DGI151:0170:RS>
      however the stress of near drowning the the rat er crapped on
      the octopus's head so apparently this is the reason why to this
      day that the octopus <.>disli</.> has an immense dislike for the
      for the rat and when living with these people who lure octopus
      <&>5:00</&> they use a lure fashioned to look like a rat and
      they shake it over the octopus's hole <drawls>and</drawls> you
      see an octopus come out er and then he spots the lure or spots
      the rat and turns bright red with anger and just grabs hold of
      it and there's no hook no nothing to fasten him he just hangs on
      really tight and they pull him out of the water and then of
      particular interest to me was the carving family

  <WSC#DGI151:0175:RS>
      um <O>tut</O> they had <O>voc</O> during the er days when the
      european whalers visited tonga um they took on tongan crews just
      as what happened here in new zealand and in tonga <drawls>they're</drawls>
      short of timber <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0180:RS>
      historically there were a lot of raids with fiji over timber <.>to</.>
      especially to build their large er multihulled vessels called
      <foreign=Tongan>kalias</foreign=Tongan> and the tongan
      <&>6:00</&> carvers learned to use whalebone and so they had <,>
      picked up a skill from the europeans and i was very fortunate at
      that time to get out on a whaling expedition which was all hand
      harpoon stuff

  <WSC#DGI151:0185:RS>
      they were humpback whales out off <?>tekumereke</?> <drawls>and</drawls>
      <.>j</.> i was out there for seven days in the middle of nowhere

  <WSC#DGI151:0190:RS>
      <O>laughs</O> it's quite exciting watching someone pouring water
      on the bowsprit so it doesn't catch alight when the lines are
      running out and to see them <O>tut</O> their adaptations

  <WSC#DGI151:0195:RS>
      these whales don't <.>fly</.> er float <,> <O>tut</O> <,> so
      they someone hopped in the water and sewed the lips up um <?>yeah</?>
      so that <.>w</.> <?>that</?> they could tow it home and they
      towed it all the way home

  <WSC#DGI151:0200:RS>
      they have these er <,> they maintain these whaleboats

  <WSC#DGI151:0205:RS>
      they are a <.>l</.> a form of er type of longboat and they've
      they have them rigged with polynesian <&>7:00</&> design sail
      and <O>voc</O> you see them <.>s</.> er sailing around in the
      tongan group today and they are left over from that whaling
      period the european whaling period

  <WSC#DGI151:0210:IM>
      how <drawls>many</drawls> <O>voc</O> men would it take to tow
      the whale back to shore

  <WSC#DGI151:0215:RS>
      <O>tut</O> <,> it's not so much men it's it's um vessel power so
      er we <.>had</.> there were a couple of boats <{><[>with the
      whale</[> under tow and when they get back to the island of
      origin um everybody's down there ready to help butcher the
      animal

  <WSC#DGI151:0220:RS>
      not a <.>b</.> not <.>an</.> nothing was wasted but of course
      this is not happening today <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0225:IM>
      <[>and <?>then</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI151:0230:IM>
      mm do they when you <.>the</.> <.>the</.> <.>boat</.> whaleboat
      you went out on do they attract the sharks

  <WSC#DGI151:0235:RS>
      yes they do

  <WSC#DGI151:0240:RS>
      that's what intrigued me was er there're a lot of pelagic white
      tip um sharks in the water because they're attracted by all the
      blood and the and the frenzied activity <,> and yet they seemed
      to just go about their business the tongans <laughs>without</laughs>
      um <&>8:00</&> paying much attention

  <WSC#DGI151:0245:RS>
      i also saw this in other island groups

  <WSC#DGI151:0250:RS>
      um there seems to be an understanding there um they seem to
      understand er just how to behave in the water so as not to
      attract er an attack

  <WSC#DGI151:0255:RS>
      i later on worked actually worked with sharks in polynesia with
      an american research project and <O>tut</O> the work consisted
      largely of acoustic studies on sharks in polynesia

  <WSC#DGI151:0260:RS>
      that meant that they were using sound to attract sharks

  <WSC#DGI151:0265:RS>
      um they have some very specialised cells called ampullae of
      lorenzi and these pick up vibrations in the water and we
      discovered that if we played certain frequencies in the water
      that you could actually <.>at</.> attract a shark without um
      without bait or anything else and if <.>th</.> if the frequency
      was intense enough they would <&>9:00</&> actually break into a
      frenzy which was not motivated by feeding

  <WSC#DGI151:0270:RS>
      it was motivated by a sound alone

  <WSC#DGI151:0275:IM>
      can the human ear hear it

  <WSC#DGI151:0280:RS>
      <O>tut</O> no no

  <WSC#DGI151:0285:RS>
      the other thing was that <,> we worked with grey reef sharks
      which are in shallow water around the reefs

  <WSC#DGI151:0290:RS>
      they're very <.>c</.> very common if the reef is healthy <,,>
      and i noticed that um if you pursued them they'd go into a sort
      of startled posture um

  <WSC#DGI151:0295:RS>
      it was just like a cat being startled and there was er lifting
      of the snout er arching of the back and very exaggerated lateral
      bending of the tail and the pectoral fins were er <,> almost
      brought <&>pronounced as bought</&> to right angles to the body
      rather than the normal um swimming position and they would weave
      around in a kind of circle or figure of eight pattern <O>tut</O>
      <?>and</?> if they went through this complete ritual
      <&>10:00</&> you could guarantee that they would turn and attack
      you <,> and we understood that this was a territorial type of
      response <drawls>um</drawls> because we noticed that in the case
      of when we looked at shark attack um statistics particularly in
      australia whose where they've had a lot er and south africa
      people were able to go in and rescue the person and they had a
      single bite um so we felt that there was a lot of this was
      territorial response rather than motivated by <{><[>feeding</[>
      <,> but it was interesting to <drawls>see</drawls> the
      polynesians who spend so much time in the water gathering <,>
      <indig=Maori>kaimoana</indig=Maori> um

  <WSC#DGI151:0300:RS>
      they seem to have a wonderful relationship with their
      environment and if they are ever bitten by sharks <,> they treat
      that as just being unlucky um

  <WSC#DGI151:0305:RS>
      it's usually an accident <O>swallows</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0310:RS>
      it's often a <&>11:00</&> fisherman who's got one wrapped up in
      some gear and he's trying to free it <,> <O>tut</O> or it's a
      maybe um a shark inside the lagoon <?><.>a</.></?> and the exit
      is blocked so the animal is responding to sort of clear its path
      so there's a single bite and you don't see it again

  <WSC#DGI151:0315:IM>
      <[>mhm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGI151:0320:IM>
      mm

  <WSC#DGI151:0325:IM>
      how different when you take um both because you've come through
      both avenues there's how the natives the indigenous people er
      take their role <?>and their</?> scientific approach to the
      shark and all that goes with the sea and there's the
      americanised way

  <WSC#DGI151:0330:RS>
      mhm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0335:IM>
      which is high frequencies high tech <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0340:RS>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0345:IM>
      er <.>w</.> <O>voc</O> do they meet <.>i</.> in at some basis
      point or are they so <.>pa</.> far apart they need to talk to
      each other

  <WSC#DGI151:0350:RS>
      er there was interest there but a scientist is a scientist
      <drawls>and</drawls> the term is called anthropomorphising

  <WSC#DGI151:0355:RS>
      you do not anthropomorphise <&>12:00</&> and <,> the <O>tut</O>
      well perhaps to give you an example of the differences

  <WSC#DGI151:0360:RS>
      i was working on the in shallow water about thirty thirty feet
      and we were setting up a cage for our own protection <{><[><.>bec</.></[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0365:IM>
      <[>now</[></{> this is when you were with the americans or the
      <{><[>er the islanders</[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0370:RS>
      <[><O>tut</O> this is</[></{> during this er project yes and we
      were setting up a cage on the bottom for our own protection
      because what we were going to do <?><.>was</.></?> had a certain
      element of danger <,> <drawls>and a</drawls> tahitian appeared
      from nowhere

  <WSC#DGI151:0375:RS>
      he just bare feet er little wee japanese goggles and waved and
      he only had one arm <O>swallows</O> which had been bitten by a
      shark six months beforehand and i actually attended that er that
      victim and we took him to papeete for treatment <,>

  <WSC#DGI151:0380:RS>
      he was bitten in the forearm however <.>j</.> through
      <&>13:00</&> infection and things like that he had to <.>high</.>
      have a high quarter amputation

  <WSC#DGI151:0385:RS>
      now this man appeared from nowhere to say hello

  <WSC#DGI151:0390:RS>
      he heard that i was down there so he came to say hello and a
      grey reef shark swam quite close and he just stuck his foot out
      and pushed himself off it and big smile on his face <,>

  <WSC#DGI151:0395:RS>
      as far as he was concerned um the reason for for his accident
      was it was WAS an accident he'd done something wrong <,> <{><[>whereas</[>
      we were looking at the behaviour of these animals trying to
      understand why they react this way and that way <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0400:RS>
      um maybe we should've been looking at the <?><.>th</.></?> the
      behaviour of people and seeing um how they react to to um
      animals er in particular sharks and you know turn things around
      a bit <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGI151:0405:RS>
      we might've learnt more <O>laughs</O> <latch> <&>14:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI151:0410:IM>
      <[><?><.>and</.></?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI151:0415:IM>
      did anything while you were with the tahitians and the tongans
      and all the people of the pacific <latch>

  <WSC#DGI151:0420:RS>
      mm

  <WSC#DGI151:0425:IM>
      the secrets some of them showed you did they come in handy at
      one dangerous point in your life when you were dealing with
      trying to understand the sea

  <WSC#DGI151:0430:RS>
      <O>tut</O> yes they did

  <WSC#DGI151:0435:RS>
      um i lost my fear of sharks in polynesia um

  <WSC#DGI151:0440:RS>
      you got so familiar <,> we got you got so used to them being
      around <O>tut</O> and you learned to respect them

  <WSC#DGI151:0445:RS>
      you also learned to understand what their role was in the
      environment <O>clears throat</O> <O>tut</O> and you got to like
      them

  <WSC#DGI151:0450:RS>
      er you started even recognising individuals when you spent <?>a</?>
      long enough time

  <WSC#DGI151:0455:RS>
      we also tagged a lot of them by swimming up to them and sticking
      barbs in them which had um spaghetti <?>trailer</?> colour coded
      tags on them so that helped us get to know um individuals
      <&>15:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI151:0460:RS>
      however um <,> it was some time after when i came back to new
      zealand and i was <,> diving off the poor knight's and i jumped
      into the middle of a school of travelly and i was trying to take
      photographs and the next thing there was a whoosh right past my
      right buttock and it was a mako and i was over blue water and to
      this day i still have a fear of hanging over the blue abyss um
      because of that encounter <?>with <{><[>this</?></[>

  <WSC#DGI151:0465:IM>
      <[>now</[></{> can you take us back to the blue abyss

  <WSC#DGI151:0470:IM>
      what does this all mean <.>t</.> in terms of shark attack

  <WSC#DGI151:0475:IM>
      is that where if <.>w</.> you're gonna get eaten anywhere that's
      where it's gonna be or

  <WSC#DGI151:0480:RS>
      well i was doing something that did have <.>a</.> <O>voc</O> you
      know there is <?>a</?> risk when you're in the middle of a <.>s</.>
      a frenzied school of fish who are feeding and then predators
      turn up um there is THAT's when you're in in a risk <&>16:00</&>
      situation because when they rush into the school they've got
      their jaws wide open and and they could hit you <&>16:07</&>
</I>
