<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side two</&>
  <&>0:04</&>
  

  <WSC#DGI157:0005:PK>
      and um we're two members <drawls>of</drawls> um eleven women who
      make up the entire collective of <indig=Maori>te whare rokiroki</indig=Maori>
      maori women's refuge

  <WSC#DGI157:0010:PK>
      we range from um <O>tut</O> twenty three years of age up to our
      late er fifties and we come from very diverse backgrounds and we
      all have a passion and dedication to um <indig=Maori>wahine</indig=Maori>
      and <indig=Maori>tamariki</indig=Maori> protecting them keeping
      them as safe as we possibly can and er meeting a need for um <O>clears
      throat</O> <drawls>um</drawls> work of family violence
      prevention within the maori community

  <WSC#DGI157:0015:IM>
      <softly>mm</softly> the history behind women's refuge

  <WSC#DGI157:0020:PK>
      <O>swallows</O> well <indig=Maori>te whare rokiroki</indig=Maori>
      first opened his <.>door</.> its doors as a refuge in nineteen
      eighty nine

  <WSC#DGI157:0025:PK>
      however we got our house in nineteen eighty six and it took us
      three years to renovate our house

  <WSC#DGI157:0030:PK>
      um <drawls>we</drawls> operate <drawls>a</drawls> normal er
      beautifully warm <&>1:00</&> and um homely three bedroom house
      that um sleeps up to sixteen bodies maximum or legally that's
      how many bodies we're able to have in the <indig=Maori>whare</indig=Maori>
      but of course we have um extra mattresses and a big huge living
      room that's available er <.>w</.> for use when we have an
      overflow of women um <O>clears throat</O>

  <WSC#DGI157:0035:PK>
      yes we opened our doors in nineteen eighty nine <drawls>and</drawls>
      er we've been providing a safe house um an advocacy community
      advocacy <.>su</.> <.>f</.> support service for women and
      children who perhaps don't need to come into our <indig=Maori>whare</indig=Maori>
      but would like some <.>w</.> women to come and talk with them
      somebody to come and talk to them about some of the options that
      may be available to them and help them get through their crisis

  <WSC#DGI157:0040:PK>
      we run education <O>clears throat</O> <.>pro</.> training
      programmes for anybody and any organisations that are interested
      in learning more about um <,> family violence and learning how
      to deal with it and how to prevent it how to intervene with it
      <.>w</.> so we'll talk to anybody and everybody who's interested
      in hearing about family violence <&>2:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI157:0045:IM>
      now what's the state of um family and domestic violence in new
      zealand

  <WSC#DGI157:0050:PK>
      oh that's a hard question cos i'm pretty <.>z</.> er locally
      focused i'm focused on on family violence and what happens here
      in wellington um <O>clears throat</O> but what we what we do
      what we can say is that there certainly is an increase of
      intolerance and unacceptance of issues of anything to do with
      family violence of violence period so er more people are talking
      about it more people are seeking the help of refuge are ringing
      us up and just wanting to clarify some things on the telephone
      <O>inhales</O>

  <WSC#DGI157:0055:PK>
      um neighbours are becoming really really intolerant and are <.>s</.>
      are quickly making phone calls to the police

  <WSC#DGI157:0060:PK>
      the police are noticing you'll um um observe some of their
      statistical information which tells us that every year they're
      receiving an increase of um oh there's an increase of their need
      to attend domestic cases <O>tut</O> <O>tut</O> so i <&>3:00</&>
      would <.>s</.> personally i would say that it's that it's
      certainly out and in the open and being talked about largely and
      can give us the sense that <.>there</.> that it is on the
      increase that it's far more huger than what it was say ten years
      ago um <.>ma</.> but then i think that it would cost us
      thousands and thousands of dollars to get a real accurate sort
      of recording of of the extent of family violence

  <WSC#DGI157:0065:PK>
      we would need to look at police intervention refuge intervention
      court intervention

  <WSC#DGI157:0070:PK>
      we'd need to look at the hospitals um <O>clears throat</O> how
      many women are seeking um medical attention for injuries that
      they've sustained perhaps two months ago ten years prior

  <WSC#DGI157:0075:PK>
      um um children we need to look at children and see what sort of
      um <O>clears throat</O> why are some of the reasons for why
      they're failing in school is stuff going on for them at home
      <drawls>um</drawls> and i think it's a never ending <{><[>task</[>

  <WSC#DGI157:0080:PK>
      we could spend thousands of dollars trying to monitor what the
      state of family violence is when personally as a worker
      <&>4:00</&> in this crisis intervention area what we want is
      more funding more funding to er be directed directly to us so
      that we can carry on meeting the needs

  <WSC#DGI157:0085:IM>
      <[><O>coughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI157:0090:IM>
      now the film once were <laughs>warriors</laughs> it obviously
      <O>voc</O> did it have an impact on the on the kind of um the
      kind of profile that that women's refuge er have

  <WSC#DGI157:0095:PK>
      <O>tut</O> yes it certainly did have an impact in that in that
      um we <drawls>are</drawls> um applauding the availability of
      <title>once were warriors</title> the messages that are coming
      through i mean <O>voc</O> in terms of er portraying just a small
      sample of what happens to perhaps a small percentage of women
      that come through refuge

  <WSC#DGI157:0100:PK>
      not every woman er <.>r</.> receives the extent of violence that
      that beth heke did um in <.>w</.> in once were warriors <{><[>and</[>
      <O>clears throat</O> er so yes in answer to that question we're
      we're really rapt with once were warriors and and the messages
      that it was conveying about about the um the experiences of a
      battered woman and <&>5:00</&> about the spirit of a battered
      woman and her ideals and um the realities of <indig=Maori>tamariki</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DGI157:0105:IM>
      <[><O>coughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI157:0110:IM>
      so what have been some of the comments from um the women about
      this the film once were warriors

  <WSC#DGI157:0115:PK>
      yes <.>we've</.> we've been fortunate enough to have some of the
      women who've been in our <indig=Maori>whare</indig=Maori> at the
      time who went and saw the movie and some of the things that they
      talked about was that um um they did have er <?>dungy</?>
      friends like um like the woman who came in and said is that a
      result of one hell of an orgasm or what you know the day after
      beth had got a hiding and er we had a bit of a giggle about that
      and they said yes we do have friends who say silly things like
      that like girl if you'd just shut your mouth and um put up with
      it if you just if you know if you didn't open your mouth then
      you wouldn't've got that hiding

  <WSC#DGI157:0120:PK>
      um <O>clears throat</O> some of the women talked about yes
      getting beatings as bad as that

  <WSC#DGI157:0125:PK>
      other women talked about not <.>being</.> about being fortunate
      that they <.>di</.> they weren't beaten like that um and
      certainly all of us as maoris could relate to the lifestyle of
      the heke <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DGI157:0130:IM>
      mm <latch> <&>6:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI157:0135:PK>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI157:0140:IM>
      now is there a a lot of support for <?>er</?> maori women who
      are going through that kind of situation

  <WSC#DGI157:0145:PK>
      <O>tut</O> um <O>clears throat</O> that was another thing that
      <.>w</.> that some of the women talked about was um the ending
      of the movie with beth when beth went <.>w</.> her her um her
      her choice was to go back to her <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori>
      and er what we know in refuge is that the women come to
      <indig=Maori>te whare rokiroki</indig=Maori> <.>come</.> seek
      out refuge because their <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori>
      aren't able to be um nonjudgemental aren't <laughs>able</laughs>
      to be supportive in the way that they want them to be supportive

  <WSC#DGI157:0150:PK>
      the last thing that often a battered woman wants to hear is yeah
      your old man is a egg and you should've left him bloody well
      ages ago and i'll do him over sis and and er and perhaps some of
      us do tend to think that yes violence is is is best met with
      violence for <.>someti</.> for sometime on some occasions but um
      and a lot of the women <O>clears throat</O> er have <.>ha</.>
      <.>who've</.> seek the services of refuge have had that
      experience where their <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori> have
      been quite antagonistic towards them <drawls>um</drawls> have
      been really really aggressive towards <&>7:00</&> their partner
      have been quite dismissive towards their husband and don't want
      to have anything to do with both of them have the attitude that
      you made your bed so you lie in it girl or girl i put up with
      this for fifty years you can do the same thing too

  <WSC#DGI157:0155:PK>
      well there isn't <.>i</.> you know so in terms of there being a
      lot of support it's HARD for a lot of battered women to get
      support from their <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori> and so
      their other only other option is refuge

  <WSC#DGI157:0160:PK>
      um <O>tut</O> one of the things that <drawls>we</drawls> <.>w</.>
      are pleased about in the developments of our work is that er
      dealing with family violence isn't just about going to women's
      refuge that the police are far more on board and proactive and
      responding to victims and are making <.>arrests</.> <drawls>um</drawls>
      that judges and courts are are um <O>voc</O> are tending to find
      out more information and and are wanting to know more
      information about the background of this relationship <drawls>um</drawls>
      <O>clears throat</O>

  <WSC#DGI157:0165:PK>
      when women are seeking for legal protection orders that sort of
      information is being er consistently sought by judges so the
      response to um battered women is <&>8:00</&> reaching a bit
      further beyond women's refuge

  <WSC#DGI157:0170:PK>
      we do need to do a lot of work on our attitude though as people
      right across the board not just maori people or people in
      general about um how we perceive women to be in this world how
      we perceive men to be in this world

  <WSC#DGI157:0175:PK>
      um what do we think is a good relationship just exactly what is
      a good relationship and er where do we go to find those sorts of
      answers <drawls>um</drawls>

  <WSC#DGI157:0180:PK>
      what <.>wh</.> how best are we meeting the needs <drawls>of</drawls>
      the beth hekes of this world you know

  <WSC#DGI157:0185:PK>
      are we turning a blind eye

  <WSC#DGI157:0190:PK>
      are we um allowing our own attitudes about <&>swallow</&> <O>tut</O>
      um women deserve to be beaten she deserves to be beaten those
      sorts of attitudes or it's your your bed you lie in it <.>i</.>
      what happens in the home is <.>ex</.> is strictly private to
      what goes on in that <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori> <latch>

  <WSC#DGI157:0195:IM>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGI157:0200:PK>
      so all those sorts of attitudes are things that we all need to
      be questioning within ourselves

  <WSC#DGI157:0205:PK>
      what we find in our work when we're out um providing education
      training workshops and seminars is that still lots of
      <&>9:00</&> people focus in on her and ask that standard
      question

  <WSC#DGI157:0210:PK>
      why does she stay you know

  <WSC#DGI157:0215:PK>
      why does she go back and er why doesn't she just get the hell
      out of it and er <.>peop</.> it's interesting that people are
      quite quick to look at her but not necessarily are they in the
      same breath as keen and eager to look at him

  <WSC#DGI157:0220:PK>
      i mean people will say if you question them further oh yeah it's
      absolutely intolerant you know violence is just not on and and
      oh i don't agree with it no men should beat women and you know
      he should be castrated and that but that's as far as it goes and
      it's not very progressive sort of thinking

  <WSC#DGI157:0225:PK>
      it's not helpful in terms of challenging the attitudes of men in
      terms of challenging the behaviours of men <drawls>um and</drawls>
      we think that people need to be looking more at some of the
      gender issues

  <WSC#DGI157:0230:PK>
      why is it that it's men why is it that it's maori men between
      the ages of x y and z that are doing most of the beating that
      are getting arrested for for for beating their partners and why
      is it that it's um women right across the board that are <.>bec</.>
      being victims <&>10:00</&>

  <WSC#DGI157:0235:PK>
      why is it that it's all sorts of men you know

  <WSC#DGI157:0240:PK>
      we're not asking those things

  <WSC#DGI157:0245:PK>
      we're not seeking the right answers

  <WSC#DGI157:0250:IM>
      mm <.>you</.> you see the <.>e</.> the after <.>f</.> effects of
      <.>y</.> of what happens to a victim but you know nobody really
      <O>swallows</O> thinks of the cause <,>

  <WSC#DGI157:0255:IM>
      is is that something that um <.>i</.> needs to be addressed in
      new zealand or <{><[>here in</[> wellington <latch>

  <WSC#DGI157:0260:PK>
      <[>yes <.>i</.></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI157:0265:PK>
      yes it does and it is becoming it is it is <O>voc</O> it is it's
      happening and what we know in refuge from the experiences of <.>woode</.>
      er women is that family violence violence is about power and
      control

  <WSC#DGI157:0270:PK>
      it's about er one individual's need to have um power and control
      over his partner and over her circumstances

  <WSC#DGI157:0275:PK>
      it's an addictive need

  <WSC#DGI157:0280:PK>
      it's about <drawls>um</drawls> <O>inhales</O> that's the only
      one thing that that person can have control over is his partner
      and is his relationship and what goes on in his home

  <WSC#DGI157:0285:PK>
      um a lot of men who batter have this belief and value that um a
      man's home is his <&>11:00</&> castle that a man is a provider
      and therefore he's the major breadwinner and he therefore says
      what goes in in his and occurs in that household

  <WSC#DGI157:0290:PK>
      who she speaks to who she sees what she wears where she goes out
      to what sort of <indig=Maori>kai</indig=Maori> she cooks how
      much time she spends with the children how many babies she will
      have how much money she's allowed to have or spend all of those
      sorts of um are forms of abuse are tactics that batterers use on
      their partner and violence is about power and control

  <WSC#DGI157:0295:PK>
      it's as it's as simple as that um yet it's has a lot of
      complexities to it as well so battered women up and down the
      country maori women and nonmaori women talk about er having <.>ha</.>
      have those very common experiences about feeling like they're
      slaves feeling like they're up from <O>voc</O> from sun up till
      sun down attending to the house making sure the house is
      scrubbed and kept spotless that he's got the right <indig=Maori>kai</indig=Maori>
      in the house that he's served the right food at the right time
      that the children are kept quiet and that the children are kept
      <&>12:00</&> clean and healthy um that she budgets the <.>m</.>
      the money that that um is destined for that household and she
      makes sure that that money stretches so that there's enough
      <indig=Maori>kai</indig=Maori> there and there's enough money
      for alcohol and enough money for drugs as well for him

  <WSC#DGI157:0300:IM>
      <drawls>mm</drawls> so expectations need to be changed

  <WSC#DGI157:0305:IM>
      is is there something do do men need to adapt to a world that er
      <.>y</.> that women are are foreseeing as becoming a reality

  <WSC#DGI157:0310:PK>
      it seems to be the er current <.>co</.> um comments that seem to
      be happening in the media um and it's interesting that <laughs>it's
      coming from</laughs> a lot of guys too um that you know men need
      to get their act together um they're living in a different world
      and and in actual fact it it isn't it <.>w</.> isn't as as it's
      not just about that

  <WSC#DGI157:0315:PK>
      it's about both of us both men and women needing to sit and
      question what are our attitudes and what are our beliefs and
      values about women and men in this world

  <WSC#DGI157:0320:PK>
      what <&>13:00</&> are our role models

  <WSC#DGI157:0325:PK>
      who are our role models and often our role models are our
      parents

  <WSC#DGI157:0330:PK>
      where did they get what's where's what sort of messages did they
      get as children and what sort of messages do we did we get as
      children and <.>w</.> more importantly what sort of messages are
      we giving to our <indig=Maori>tamariki</indig=Maori> about a
      man's role in this world and about a woman's role in this world
      a good relationship and a bad relationship and we have to
      question those messages that we give

  <WSC#DGI157:0335:IM>
      where do you get these kind of messages from

  <WSC#DGI157:0340:IM>
      it's not like you go into a classroom and <.>you</.> and they
      say well this is what a man's role and this is what a woman's
      role is so how do you without experiencing life how do you how
      do you go through something like that

  <WSC#DGI157:0345:PK>
      <O>tut</O> you look within your own home first of all

  <WSC#DGI157:0350:PK>
      <.>that's</.> that's <.>w</.> your first point of of um where
      you first seek your role models where you first seek your
      messages from

  <WSC#DGI157:0355:PK>
      it's from your parents

  <WSC#DGI157:0360:PK>
      it's from your immediate <indig=Maori>whanau</indig=Maori> your
      guardians whoever it is that's brought you up in this world and
      if you're <.>i</.> and if you're a <.>li</.> you are unfortunate
      enough to be an institutionalised child from a wee <&>14:00</&>
      from a wee age well then you look <.>w</.> look within those
      four walls of that institution and see what sort of messages
      you're being given there and many of us don't even question
      what's normal and what's abnormal

  <WSC#DGI157:0365:PK>
      er many of us don't even question what's a disorder and what's
      you know what's orderly behaviour <drawls>um</drawls>

  <WSC#DGI157:0370:PK>
      we just grow up sensing that this is the way it is to be

  <WSC#DGI157:0375:PK>
      boys climb trees boys play <{><[>aggressively</[> boys get guns

  <WSC#DGI157:0380:PK>
      um girls get little dolls with blonde hair er girls get
      encouraged to play passively

  <WSC#DGI157:0385:PK>
      boys are beaten and are yelled at if they cried and told that
      they're a sissy so they <.>l</.> they're taught to repress their
      feelings um to not cry at all and to have that staunch sort of
      image whereas um often we as girls are told we're we're sissy
      and oh that hurt oh never mind darling those sorts of things and
      sometimes we're told also to not cry and that only little girls
      and little you know little <.>w</.> <.>s</.> um weaklings and
      sissies cry you know and those sorts of <&>15:00</&> messages
      have a real huge impact on us as kids

  <WSC#DGI157:0390:IM>
      <[><O>coughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGI157:0395:IM>
      mm

  <WSC#DGI157:0400:IM>
      so how do we <laughs>change</laughs>

  <WSC#DGI157:0405:PK>
      we change <.>s</.> we stop giving those sorts of messages and we
      start looking at relationships are <.>a</.> er are about good
      relationships are about equality <O>tut</O> and they're about
      nonviolence

  <WSC#DGI157:0410:PK>
      they're about negotiating with one another

  <WSC#DGI157:0415:PK>
      they're about being er being reasonable and understanding one
      another's requests and needs

  <WSC#DGI157:0420:PK>
      it's about um <O>clears throat</O> encouraging fair play

  <WSC#DGI157:0425:PK>
      it's about encouraging children to play and learn conflict
      resolution skills learning how to resolve problems so if we
      learn how to resolve those problems at a young age we don't grow
      up with an attitude that there's a winner and there's a loser
      and that's the way you tackle life you win or you lose

  <WSC#DGI157:0430:PK>
      you knock that attitude out of people <laughs>and</laughs> and
      even this language saying you knock that out of <laughs>people</laughs>
      those are the sorts of things that we've got to put a stop to
      and i don't believe that er we give children enough room in
      <&>16:00</&> this world that er children are still grown er
      still grow up today with with <drawls>um</drawls> <O>tut</O> the
      belief that children are to be seen and not heard that children
      can play in certain places that children um have a little a
      little room in their in the house where they can mess up
      entirely

  <WSC#DGI157:0435:PK>
      um there's not enough of our homes that are homes that are open
      to children as well so that many of us are are um <.>we</.> <O>voc</O>
      one of the many beautiful things about maori people is that our
      homes are imMACulate you know

  <WSC#DGI157:0440:PK>
      you could eat off our <.>fl</.> eat off our floors and we take
      absolute PRIDE in the presentations of our <indig=Maori>whare</indig=Maori>
      and some of us do that to the detriment of the freedom of our
      children and er so those are the things that we need to be
      looking at how we rear our children how much room we give them
      in this world and how much positive <.>a</.> reaffirmation that
      sort of those sorts of things we give to children and we in
      refuge know that to end family violence it's going to take
      generations and generations and <&>17:00</&> generations of work
      to er before we finally eradicate the the um er the <O>voc</O>
      you know intense sexist er attitudes that exist amongst men and
      women <&>17:12</&>
</I>
