<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side two</&>
  <&>8:09</&>
  

  <WSC#DGU007:0005:XY>
      those who do their home work <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0010:XY>
      often the public never hear much about them <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0015:XY>
      my appeal to maori who are politically motivated is to always do
      thorough research

  <WSC#DGU007:0020:XY>
      present it LUcidly <,,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0025:XY>
      be balanced <,> and enjoy the components of both cultures <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0030:XY>
      having being reared as a maori imMERSED a total immersion <,> in
      my childhood then enjoy having enjoyed a good education in a
      western sense i come to the conclusion that it is balance that
      is critical in advocacy and it will be balance of the <.>m</.>
      advocates of the minority which will WIN over the majority
      support <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0035:XY>
      there is absolutely no confusion in being both maori and pakeha
      and being competent in both none whatsoever

  <WSC#DGU007:0040:XY>
      one can be both but <&>9:00</&> need to be balanced <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0045:XY>
      be both and be balanced i say <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0050:XY>
      but don't ignore one at the expense of the other

  <WSC#DGU007:0055:XY>
      i want now to come to <&>drawl</&> the most recent example of
      something i've <.>f</.> found most exciting and that was the
      <indig=Maori>waka taua</indig=Maori> and the <indig=Maori>waka
      <?>humarie</?></indig=Maori> will one of them was <,> that we
      have witnessed in this country

  <WSC#DGU007:0060:XY>
      observing them i've found it an awesome experience <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0065:XY>
      it reached me in that part of me that is very much <,> a maori
      based from childhood

  <WSC#DGU007:0070:XY>
      i want therefore as one who er <drawls>seeks to</drawls> <,>
      find accurate research and trace and trace the ACtual origins of
      something to acknowledge my colleague the member for northern
      maori <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0075:XY>
      <drawls>i</drawls> <&>10:00</&> pay him the tribute of being the
      instigator of the <indig=Maori>waka</indig=Maori> concept during
      this nineteen ninety year <,,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0080:XY>
      i found er my observations er profound

  <WSC#DGU007:0085:XY>
      for instance at marlborough to be a participant there with the
      privilege of taking the helm of a <indig=Maori>waka</indig=Maori>
      with maori women to learn that the <.>u</.> the unity <,> that
      that <indig=Maori>waka</indig=Maori> brought about in that
      community <,> was SUCH that it was <.>u</.> unique

  <WSC#DGU007:0090:XY>
      it has never happened before maori and pakeha young and old from
      twelve to sixty six and older participated

  <WSC#DGU007:0095:XY>
      now THAT is something that WE HAVE in this country and we have
      it has eluded us <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0100:XY>
      but <.>w</.> <&>11:00</&> as the member for marlborough has said
      it was there and another <indig=Maori>waka</indig=Maori> from my
      territory um tamatea arikinui from porangahau from hawkes bay

  <WSC#DGU007:0105:XY>
      it brought members of different gangs together <,> in a
      disciplined way in which they had to respect each other were
      disciplined <,,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0110:XY>
      the discipline that is so necessary in i believe <&>drawl</&> a
      life where you conTRIbute as well as receive

  <WSC#DGU007:0115:XY>
      for unless we contribute to <?>be <.>co</.></?> TAKing all the
      time in life makes for a very bare existence and one that in <.>o</.>
      in the end disintegrates and destroys itself

  <WSC#DGU007:0120:XY>
      it is to the selfresourcing of people and citizens that er all
      governments should direct policy

  <WSC#DGU007:0125:XY>
      SELF reliance to train people to know nothing other <&>12:00</&>
      than being dependent and to expecting handouts is not is not a
      worthy thing to do

  <WSC#DGU007:0130:XY>
      so therefore for those who contributed in many hours to the
      success of the <indig=Maori>waka</indig=Maori> projects AND of
      the aotea maori cultural festival AND of all these other
      celebrations and of the success of the commonwealth games i pay
      my tribute to the many who contributed voluntarily to these
      things whom we may never know although in <.>t</.> peter
      sharples doctor peter sharples my hawkes bay kinsman i must pay
      a particular tribute

  <WSC#DGU007:0135:XY>
      er as i do <&>drawl</&> to women like martha moon and hilda
      busby who on waitangi were so important

  <WSC#DGU007:0140:XY>
      perhaps they want not to be publicly recognised to the degree of
      others but they were there pulling <&>13:00</&> their weight and
      contributing to these successful hui

  <WSC#DGU007:0145:XY>
      so we have started this year on an exciting note for unanimity
      has been characteristic in these areas to which i have alluded

  <WSC#DGU007:0150:XY>
      er and also another thing commitment commitment of one partner
      to the other commitment of a government to its citizens
      commitment of the old to the young commitment of maori to pakeha
      comMITment to succeed we can always find the sources of division

  <WSC#DGU007:0155:XY>
      they are easy

  <WSC#DGU007:0160:XY>
      they hit the headlines

  <WSC#DGU007:0165:XY>
      but the commitment to projects is something that is all too
      rarely observed and respected

  <WSC#DGU007:0170:XY>
      so i say of the exciting things we have seen may their spirit
      continue to inSPIRE us to find to search and grasp those things
      that are good for everyone rather that <&>14:00</&> than the
      divisiveness <.>an</.> the divisiveness and discord that
      characterises too much of the debate on race relations

  <WSC#DGU007:0175:XY>
      even the recent american anthropologist's observation in his new
      analysis of maoritanga in new zealand where he argues that the
      movement has been invented in order to enhance the power of
      maori

  <WSC#DGU007:0180:XY>
      let us receive that i haven't seen the study i have er sought it
      and look at that and perhaps we might acknowledge that certainly
      the first text on maori legends is that that has been given out
      to students in maori studies has been that of governor grey's
      <indig=Maori>nga mahi a nga tupuna</indig=Maori> written in
      maori by him the legends

  <WSC#DGU007:0185:XY>
      let us acknowledge that we are an alive culture changes is
      creative and improves one hopes

  <WSC#DGU007:0190:WC>
      mister <{><[>speaker i</[>

  <WSC#DGU007:0195:SJ>
      <[>the honorable</[></{> mister cooper

  <WSC#DGU007:0200:WC>
      i welcome the opportunity to follow the member <&>15:00</&> for
      southern maori in the address and reply debate <,> she's an
      experienced politician who gives a lot of thought to what she's
      saying

  <WSC#DGU007:0205:WC>
      there is no need for me to do any rebuttal

  <WSC#DGU007:0210:WC>
      frankly i have sympathy with the approach that she is taking

  <WSC#DGU007:0215:WC>
      it's also of course a time to <,> talk about the events of the
      last few months

  <WSC#DGU007:0220:WC>
      the accolade paid to the speaker <,> our latest knight in this
      house <,> i thoroughly endorse that

  <WSC#DGU007:0225:WC>
      he's been doing an excellent job and let's hope that continues
      for no more than seven and a half months <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0230:WC>
      the queen of course and the duke of edinborough travelled once
      again to queenstown and that was a visit that the people of the
      wakatipu the people of wanaka and the people of the west coast
      with the duke being at wanaka and the west coast enjoyed
      immensely

  <WSC#DGU007:0235:WC>
      others in the north island had the benefit of <&>16:00</&> the
      visit from prince edward <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0240:WC>
      we are really a saturday sunday country when we feel happy

  <WSC#DGU007:0245:WC>
      and anyone that looked at the events <,> since christmas <,>
      would know <,> quite quickly and the member for northern maori
      says we should be happy every day and it's not really <,> too
      easy to be happy every day and i want to develop that theme
      right now because we are a saturday sunday happy country a
      monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday unhappy country

  <WSC#DGU007:0250:WC>
      indeed we <.>i</.> <.>i</.> <.>i</.> involve ourselves in a
      certain amount of eSCApism i think because of the difficulty the
      new zealand is in internationally and therefore many of us <,>
      when we start on mondays start to think it's going to be pretty
      rough and we look forward to a saturday and a sunday to escape

  <WSC#DGU007:0255:WC>
      we've had a certain amount <&>pronounced as ament</&> amount of
      <.>s</.> escapism for a period of time with the commonwealth
      games with the sesquicentennial <,> with the events surrounding
      <&>17:00</&> the royal visit but it's back to reality because
      apart form a few visits by people that have <.>by</.> been
      invited by the government to give <,> some status <,> to the
      prime minister it's back to the <drawls>reality</drawls> of an
      election time

  <WSC#DGU007:0260:WC>
      but we conduct today's today's debate the address and reply on a
      very changed world to twelve months ago <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0265:WC>
      we are <.>i</.> indeed as a country very isolated in a period of
      momentous change <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0270:WC>
      when you can get <,> two hundred and fifty thousand people <,>
      in red square demanding that the present administration which
      are moving away from communism to socialism do something else
      but move towards socialism in other words free up the economy

  <WSC#DGU007:0275:WC>
      when you witness the grand failure of communism and the terminal
      crisis of <&>18:00</&> that political philosophy established
      seventy years ago a philosophy that was spread by gun power
      through eastern europe into poland czechoslovakia hungary
      yugoslavia romania and bulgaria during the second world war

  <WSC#DGU007:0280:WC>
      there was really as a result of that a carve up of the world map
      and if you look at the soviet republics latvia estonia and
      lithuania where there's really an extraordinary evolution taking
      place right now and ran your mind back over the period of the
      cold war the berlin war <,> the berlin wall the korea sputnik
      vietnam and afghanistan we suddenly find that something that we
      would not have expected to have taken place for DEcades is
      actually happening and we from a long way are going to
      participate in <&>19:00</&> that

  <WSC#DGU007:0285:WC>
      we suddenly find that communism is becoming very irrelevant to
      the human condition

  <WSC#DGU007:0290:WC>
      indeed it's now clear that if you deprive people of heat and
      light and food you get to the stage <.>whi</.> a deep agony as a
      failed dogma unravels is going to be part and parcel of the
      changes that take place in eastern europe

  <WSC#DGU007:0295:WC>
      there's a possibility of course that it may be unravelling too
      quickly

  <WSC#DGU007:0300:WC>
      it's in terminal crisis

  <WSC#DGU007:0305:WC>
      there's been a progressive delay

  <WSC#DGU007:0310:WC>
      there is a certain failed dogma and it's clear that we may find
      in the future that because there is no consistent and successful
      model on which to go back to communism that what we've seen is
      an intellectual aberration which lasted seventy <&>20:00</&>
      years long

  <WSC#DGU007:0315:WC>
      now how does new zealand conduct itself as a result of the
      situation that's taking place internationally <,> we're going to
      be required to review our status internationally in trade and in
      foreign affairs

  <WSC#DGU007:0320:WC>
      we're going to see a review of <?>Connicon</?>

  <WSC#DGU007:0325:WC>
      we're going to see different implications for gatt

  <WSC#DGU007:0330:WC>
      <.>we</.> <.>th</.> certain certainly be a review of nato and
      certainly a review of the warsaw pact <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0335:WC>
      now we can't escape this

  <WSC#DGU007:0340:WC>
      so as we look forward in new zealand to the nineteen nineties
      we've got to work out what shape we're in <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0345:WC>
      and i don't think we're in very good shape

  <WSC#DGU007:0350:WC>
      i don't think the member for saint kilda the minister of social
      welfare thinks we're in very good shape

  <WSC#DGU007:0355:WC>
      certainly the reTIRing minister and retiring m p the member for
      dunedin north doesn't think we're in very good shape and i think
      that's why he's getting out

  <WSC#DGU007:0360:WC>
      the fledgling minister of er <&>21:00</&> technology and science
      he knows that we're not in good shape and if those three members
      of parliament don't know that we're not in good shape i want
      them therefore to look at today's today's otago daily times
      today's otago daily times

  <WSC#DGU007:0365:WC>
      actually i think i'm in better shape than the member for east
      cape <,,> in better shape and

  <WSC#DGU007:0370:WC>
      <.>an</.> and maybe her shape will change but i'm happy with my
      shape and i'm not happy with the shape of new zealand society
      right now

  <WSC#DGU007:0375:WC>
      this is the people that were convicted yesterday in the dunedin
      court and this is specifically for the member for saint kilda
      the minister of social welfare

  <WSC#DGU007:0380:WC>
      every single one apart from one individual who's a factory hand
      is either unemployed or a social welfare beneficiary

  <WSC#DGU007:0385:WC>
      this <&>22:00</&> is an absolute litany of failure as far as the
      member for saint kilda is concerned

  <WSC#DGU007:0390:WC>
      you see what it clearly shows is and i mark this right indelibly
      i hope in the mind of the member for saint kilda

  <WSC#DGU007:0395:WC>
      just as the communists have turned the whole world upside down
      for seventy years attempting to give us a doctrinaire
      totalitarian society that wouldn't work and that has failed is
      absolutely doomed this nation will be doomed unless we turn it
      to production and away from welfarism

  <WSC#DGU007:0400:WC>
      now the minister is really presiding right now over the failure
      of new zealand

  <WSC#DGU007:0405:WC>
      he is actually endorsing the failure of new zealand

  <WSC#DGU007:0410:WC>
      there is concrete evidence everywhere we go that the balance has
      moved away from production and it's moved away to expectation

  <WSC#DGU007:0415:WC>
      it's moved away to the point <&>23:00</&> where we no longer
      will be able to deliver <&>pronounced as to liver</&> to deliver
      to the people of new zealand what is necessary

  <WSC#DGU007:0420:WC>
      if members of government don't <.>do</.> know that then i am
      really frightened about the future of new zealand

  <WSC#DGU007:0425:WC>
      you see if we look at the rest of the world and then we asked
      <.>oursel</.> ask ourselves the different between the parties

  <WSC#DGU007:0430:WC>
      for the first part of this year all we've been doing is escaping
      by talking about waitangi all the time by getting into sesqui
      <&>pronounced as shesqui</&> all the time by wanting to win ball
      games rugby league and cricket everywhere

  <WSC#DGU007:0435:WC>
      we're strapped for cash and the minister of the environment and
      all good luck to him if he can he starts to think that the only
      thing that's necessary in new zealand in nineteen ninety is to
      set our mind against <laughs>driftnet fishing</laughs> when
      there are a hundred and sixty thousand people out there
      unemployed that haven't got a <?>bolter's</?> show of getting a
      job

  <WSC#DGU007:0440:WC>
      you see the rot has set in new zealand and the rot is being
      <&>24:00</&> get got rid of in the european countries

  <WSC#DGU007:0445:WC>
      we simply have to look at our unemployment our growth

  <WSC#DGU007:0450:WC>
      where is it

  <WSC#DGU007:0455:WC>
      we look at our balance of payments and that's deteriorating

  <WSC#DGU007:0460:WC>
      we look at our record tax take in real terms

  <WSC#DGU007:0465:WC>
      we witness record expenditure and it's all going in welfare

  <WSC#DGU007:0470:WC>
      forty one percent of the budget taken by the government going to
      pay people to do nothing virtually

  <WSC#DGU007:0475:WC>
      we can't survive

  <WSC#DGU007:0480:WC>
      it is a fact in life that if you do things for people that they
      will normally do for themselves you will probably destroy them

  <WSC#DGU007:0485:WC>
      you see the fact is that there's no humanitarian virtue and i
      say this to the minister of social welfare in doing things for
      people that they'll do for themselves

  <WSC#DGU007:0490:WC>
      <.>i</.> in dunedin it'll be the same in every court

  <WSC#DGU007:0495:WC>
      but it's endemic in dunedin and otago society today these people
      <,> who appear not to be able to work appear to be able to be
      <&>25:00</&> very agile and get into criminal activities all the
      time

  <WSC#DGU007:0500:WC>
      you see social crime is escalating

  <WSC#DGU007:0505:WC>
      you look at this society we've got now and no wonder the leader
      of the national party the member for king country talks about
      the need for a decent society

  <WSC#DGU007:0510:WC>
      look at our infant mortality rates <,,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0515:WC>
      they are disgusting compared with the countries that years ago
      we were well ahead of

  <WSC#DGU007:0520:WC>
      look at our educational achievements the budget the money has
      come down from i think sixteen percent of the taxes we took to
      now thirteen percent and we're not getting the achievement into
      society that we need to compete with the countries in the
      pacific that we have to compete with

  <WSC#DGU007:0525:WC>
      we are not internationally competitive

  <WSC#DGU007:0530:WC>
      if you look at the suicide rate <,> those aged fifteen to
      nineteen

  <WSC#DGU007:0535:RM>
      point of order mister speaker

  <WSC#DGU007:0540:SJ>
      point of order yes mister mcclay

  <WSC#DGU007:0545:RM>
      er mister speaker can i er direct your attention to the fact
      that the member for east <&>26:00</&> cape is directing a stream
      of inane interjections from quite close to the member for otago

  <WSC#DGU007:0550:RM>
      he's battling well with them and i believe that the continuous
      stream of such interjections is neither reasonable nor rare

  <WSC#DGU007:0555:XX>
      point of order mister speaker

  <WSC#DGU007:0560:SJ>
      i don't think all right i'll hear this

  <WSC#DGU007:0565:XX>
      mister speaker i've been listening to the interjections which
      have been coming sir <.>f</.> not only from the member for east
      cape but a number of other members as well sir

  <WSC#DGU007:0570:XX>
      the member the member for otago is an experienced debater

  <WSC#DGU007:0575:XX>
      he is a very <.>in</.> capable debater and he knows sir that
      when he deliberately is controversial in the house it invites
      interjections sir

  <WSC#DGU007:0580:XX>
      he expects it and he is getting it sir and i must say i think
      he's coping quite well

  <WSC#DGU007:0585:SJ>
      order i <.>know</.> <{><[><.>i</.> order</[> i just er for a
      moment

  <WSC#DGU007:0590:SJ>
      i've er i've called order across the house before when i heard
      certain interjections coming from the back of the house and
      certainly references to the speaker addressed in the second
      person which is not allowed

  <WSC#DGU007:0595:SJ>
      er i thank <&>27:00</&> the member for er raising this point

  <WSC#DGU007:0600:SJ>
      i thought the member on his feet was coping and i didn't want to
      interrupt him

  <WSC#DGU007:0605:SJ>
      but i must say that i think that some of the interjections
      coming across from the other side of the house are quite
      unnecessary

  <WSC#DGU007:0610:SJ>
      they're really not proper interjections in debate and i ask
      members just to er take er er control in that situation

  <WSC#DGU007:0615:SJ>
      mister cooper

  <WSC#DGU007:0620:XX>
      <[>speaker</[></{>

  <WSC#DGU007:0625:WC>
      mister speaker how can the labour government set their mind
      against the suicide rate <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0630:WC>
      people between the age of fifteen and nineteen has trebled <,>
      trebled since nineteen seventy four

  <WSC#DGU007:0635:WC>
      i mean there must be some concern there

  <WSC#DGU007:0640:WC>
      you can't hide that by waitangi celebrations sesquis and royal
      visits

  <WSC#DGU007:0645:WC>
      what about the divorce rate up forty four percent in ten years

  <WSC#DGU007:0650:WC>
      is that part of the way we're going

  <WSC#DGU007:0655:WC>
      is that a manifestation of good government i think it's a
      <&>28:00</&> manifestation of lousy government

  <WSC#DGU007:0660:WC>
      and yet there's twenty well i hope the member for east cape
      cackles before she lays the egg

  <WSC#DGU007:0665:WC>
      it's very important

  <WSC#DGU007:0670:WC>
      we've got to have these things right

  <WSC#DGU007:0675:WC>
      look there are twenty nations right now in the world where
      people live longer than new zealand

  <WSC#DGU007:0680:WC>
      a decade ago there were <,> four

  <WSC#DGU007:0685:WC>
      so where are we going with the labour government

  <WSC#DGU007:0690:WC>
      our expenditure's up

  <WSC#DGU007:0695:WC>
      our taxes are up

  <WSC#DGU007:0700:WC>
      our unemployment's up

  <WSC#DGU007:0705:WC>
      our interest rates are going up and it's time now to say that
      rogernomics has failed to deliver

  <WSC#DGU007:0710:WC>
      you see it's impossible to underwrite a welfare state <,>
      without a productive base

  <WSC#DGU007:0715:WC>
      the member for saint kilda knows that

  <WSC#DGU007:0720:WC>
      he knows that there's no more production coming out of his whole
      electorate

  <WSC#DGU007:0725:WC>
      i heard the <,> new minister the fledgling minister for regional
      development talking tonight

  <WSC#DGU007:0730:WC>
      he said that i was parading around the country upsetting
      regional councils promising to get <&>29:00</&> rid of them

  <WSC#DGU007:0735:WC>
      they must be whingeing

  <WSC#DGU007:0740:WC>
      they're writing to him

  <WSC#DGU007:0745:WC>
      you see these people in these regional councils and i may say
      many mayors many councillors in new zealand are up to their
      necks like pigs in a trough swilling in the extravagance of the
      honorariums and payments they're taking and many people are up
      against it throughout new zealand

  <WSC#DGU007:0750:WC>
      you see what we're going to see with out doubt is a ratepayers
      revolt <,>

  <WSC#DGU007:0755:WC>
      we're going to see it <.>m</.> in my branch meetings the thing
      that gets the biggest reaction is when i say that the national
      government when elected at the next election will put before the
      public of new zealand an opportunity to say yes or no to
      regional government and i will PERsonally pursue that PERsonally
      pursue it and it will be overwhelmingly rejected overwhelmingly
      rejected in otago in southland

  <WSC#DGU007:0760:WC>
      if they want it in auckland that'll be their business

  <WSC#DGU007:0765:WC>
      it'll be <&>30:00</&> permissive not mandatory

  <WSC#DGU007:0770:WC>
      i hear from the member for wairarapa they'll drop it too <,> and
      so they should because local government <,> and this is all part
      of this government's insidious campaign to get more money for
      welfare people to pay them to do nothing

  <WSC#DGU007:0775:WC>
      they're going to levy ratepayers <,> wellington again duck
      shoving the responsibility on to regions and the minister of
      regional development says that's regional development

  <WSC#DGU007:0780:WC>
      you know the regional development in my area right now the
      farmhouses that used to be the married couples' are filling up
      with the people coming from the cities to escape having to work
      <,> to escape having to work

  <WSC#DGU007:0785:WC>
      i'm not proud of that

  <WSC#DGU007:0790:WC>
      i don't actually want their vote

  <WSC#DGU007:0795:WC>
      if they think that they can go through for the rest of their
      lives waiting for national superannuation avoiding
      responsibility then i don't really want their vote

  <WSC#DGU007:0800:WC>
      i want to tell them straight out they're destroying themselves

  <WSC#DGU007:0805:WC>
      you see the biggest problem in new zealand right now and i say
      this to the minister of <&>31:00</&> social welfare

  <WSC#DGU007:0810:WC>
      if you add to the number of people if you get a HUGE increase in
      the number of people the people most at risk are the people that
      need the most help

  <WSC#DGU007:0815:WC>
      if you clearly move from say sixty thousand domestic purposes
      beneficiaries to eighty seven thousand twenty seven thousand
      start to certainly affect the sixty thousand who definitely need
      it

  <WSC#DGU007:0820:WC>
      it's time we put not a stop

  <WSC#DGU007:0825:WC>
      it's time we put a quality control on it

  <WSC#DGU007:0830:WC>
      time we got some jobs and some growth into development

  <WSC#DGU007:0835:WC>
      there was nothing in the speech from the throne

  <WSC#DGU007:0840:WC>
      all we heard from the speech from the throne and it was repeated
      three occasions was it's time for some social justice

  <WSC#DGU007:0845:WC>
      look social justice means that people who because of human
      frailty can't work can't provide themselves get something from
      the taxpayer <&>32:00</&>
</I>
