<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>1:48</&>
  

  <WSC#DGZ054:0005:NL>
      <O>tut</O> well i'd like to suggest we get underway

  <WSC#DGZ054:0010:NL>
      adam and ted if there are um before we <&>2:00</&> actually
      begin are there <,,> <O>tut</O> additional things that you would
      like on the agenda or

  <WSC#DGZ054:0015:TD>
      no <.>i</.> i just want to say i think you've done a great job

  <WSC#DGZ054:0020:JY>
      oh thank <laughs>you</laughs> <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0025:NL>
      <{><[>mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0030:TD>
      <[><.>i</.></[></{> i mean <.>s</.> there's obviously more work
      still to be done but i think you've <.>go</.> done a terrific
      job of getting together a lot of material and getting some very
      good analysis of it

  <WSC#DGZ054:0035:JY>
      mm oh thank you <{1><[1>ted

  <WSC#DGZ054:0040:JY>
      i'm aware that it's got some um</[1> holes and flaws in <{2><[2>it</[2>
      but um <quietly>yeah</quietly>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0045:TD>
      <[1>very very useful <quietly><unclear>word</unclear></quietly></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0050:TD>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0055:TD>
      no i'm fine with um <,> how we're going

  <WSC#DGZ054:0060:TD>
      haven't had time to read this material but i <.>have</.> i've
      given this a <{1><[1>couple</[1> of read throughs

  <WSC#DGZ054:0065:JY>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0070:NL>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0075:TD>
      so i'm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0080:NL>
      okay <latch> quite up to date with that <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0085:NL>
      i meant to <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0090:TD>
      mm <latch> send you a <{><[>fax <unclear>word</unclear></[>
      <unclear>word</unclear> <O>laughs</O> <?>yesterday</?> <unclear>word</unclear>
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0095:JY>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0100:TD>
      i <{><[>bought six new fax <?>rolls where</?> i was gonna CHARGE</[>
      three organisations now for two each <O>laughs</O> <&>laughter
      and comment</&>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0105:JY>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear> <O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0110:NL>
      i thought i should have couriered those up <{><[>on friday in
      preparation for monday <O>laughs</O></[> mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0115:TD>
      <[>no it's all right it's all right <O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0120:TD>
      so i'm i'm fine really yeah

  <WSC#DGZ054:0125:AM>
      yeah um yeah i think it's good for us to get <&>3:00</&>
      together again at this stage even though <?>when there is</?>
      <O>clears throat</O>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0130:AM>
      i realise the pressure that er judy has been under to cope with
      this material in this time but i think probably it's desirable
      that <{1><[1>the</[1> steering committee you know this working
      <{2><[2>party</[2> does get together to <{3><[3><?>try</?></[3>
      look at this stage

  <WSC#DGZ054:0135:AM>
      <{4><[4>and i too</[4> am impressed with er the shape of what i
      <unclear>word</unclear> <?>read</?>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0140:JY>
      <[1>mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0145:TD>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0150:NL>
      <[3>mm</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0155:JY>
      <[4>mm</[4></{4>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0160:JY>
      mm <latch> last night and this morning

  <WSC#DGZ054:0165:JY>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0170:AM>
      my <?>own</?> fax machine broke down <others laugh>half way
      through ran out of paper <?>actually</?> so half a message</others laugh>
      <{1><[1><O>laughs</O> however</[1> um <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0175:AM>
      and i think er probably nell what we've got to do is er <,> take
      a bit of time looking at <{2><[2><?>the</?></[2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0180:TD>
      <[1><O>clears throat</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0185:NL>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0190:TD>
      mm <latch> papers that <{><[>judy has given us as</[> quickly as
      we can and sort of begin to <drawls><.>s</.></drawls> pick up
      what might need to be the urgent things to be done

  <WSC#DGZ054:0195:NL>
      <[>mm <,> mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0200:NL>
      mhm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0205:AM>
      would that be right? <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0210:NL>
      yes absolutely

  <WSC#DGZ054:0215:AM>
      <?>i just think</?> if we just go round the table with any kind
      of <,> <?>comments whether</?> that's the thing <?>we all</?>
      think we should be doing <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0220:JY>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0225:TD>
      it's probably worthwhile working through i think <?>to a degree</?>
      <{><[>too</[> in the sections

  <WSC#DGZ054:0230:JY>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0235:JY>
      could i just make a few overall <{1><[1>comments that i think</[1>
      are important

  <WSC#DGZ054:0240:JY>
      um in terms of a <&>4:00</&> <.>p</.> a sort of a purist
      research approach one would have to say that this is flawed um
      <,> because of the nature of the <.>p</.> the industry and the
      people in the industry

  <WSC#DGZ054:0245:JY>
      um as it turned out i did almost all the interviews <?>with</?>
      the exception of people like eve and nell who were sort of
      experts on the telephone and <.>that</.> and these people move
      at speed <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0250:JY>
      oh the australian people obviously were all face to face but
      people were out on shoots

  <WSC#DGZ054:0255:JY>
      i was talking to sonya when she was in the middle of mixing a
      film i mean and one of the reasons we did get behind was just by
      sheer nature of the life and the work pressures of the people
      who we were trying to <{2><[2>interview</[2> um and it's very
      very useful networking exercise but <?>i mean i'm</?> was
      thinking coming in in the car one of the questions adam had
      wanted looked at for instance is do people want a a <.>qualifica</.>
      you know registered qualification

  <WSC#DGZ054:0260:JY>
      <?>oh</?> no that's not the right word <{3><[3><unclear>word</unclear>
      recognised qualification</[3>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0265:JY>
      um i really wouldn't say that in the i mean in the end i
      <&>5:00</&> could give you an overall picture on some things but
      i won't be able to necessarily come up with absolutely um um <.>quanti</.>
      <O>voc</O> you know quantitative analysis on all the issues
      because i just couldn't talk to some people for long enough

  <WSC#DGZ054:0270:JY>
      they were kind of you'd get them on the <.>end</.> or others
      would talk for hours you know you couldn't get them off <{4><[4>the</[4>
      phone because they were so pleased that somebody wanted to talk
      to them so <O>laughs</O> about this issue

  <WSC#DGZ054:0275:JY>
      so that the research is there's heaps of of interesting stuff
      here <?>sort of</?> opinion but in some areas it is not actually
      able to <O>voc</O> to be sort of quantified as much as i would
      like um and in the end i was really going for the sort of as
      much of the key many of the key issues as i'd like so <.>s</.>
      and some of the surveys some of the research is very very
      thorough others is <?><.>v</.></?> is not um yeah <,> um

  <WSC#DGZ054:0280:AM>
      <[1><?>good</?> yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0285:NL>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0290:NL>
      <[3>mm mm <,> mm</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0295:TD>
      <[4>mm</[4></{4>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0300:NL>
      <drawls>could you give um the</drawls> committee an <&>6:00</&>
      idea of what the <.>fi</.> the shape of the <{><[>final</[>
      report

  <WSC#DGZ054:0305:JY>
      <[>okay</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0310:JY>
      well as i see it um because research was still coming in last
      week which was really my writing week i didn't begin really
      writing this till friday um so what i was trying to do was to
      pull together as many of the themes and as much useful
      information as i could for this meeting and for you know future
      meetings to have them as i understand it very soon

  <WSC#DGZ054:0315:JY>
      um in terms of the future shape of the report um i i have all
      these um sort of <.>s</.> category groups here um <?>like the</?>
      producers um <,> commentators and experts etcetera directors and
      i've been systematically working through those analysing the
      data taking out as much um quantitative analysis as i can and so
      what the committee would expect for the final report is is a
      sort of a scene by scene breakdown of each of those <&>7:00</&>
      groups so screen writers i will do a whole section on them and
      analyse

  <WSC#DGZ054:0320:JY>
      in fact i have written theirs i just have to type that one up um
      a whole section on producing so that <,>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0325:JY>
      and i would expect this to change a little um for instance the
      commercial industry comment is only really we've got one more of
      those to come in and um <,>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0330:JY>
      so <.>y</.> you know it'll obviously be much better laid out it
      will you know have <.>a</.> <.>a</.> in the way a a report <{1><[1>would
      be</[1> with you know sections one to twenty or how many and
      point by point um contents

  <WSC#DGZ054:0335:JY>
      probably quite an interesting appendix i would expect um and
      this scene by scene stuff that would be going at the end of it
      and once i've done um a bit more of a breakdown <?>and</?> that
      SOME of the data in here will change a little i would expect

  <WSC#DGZ054:0340:JY>
      and i THINK that i would probably sharpen up my overall
      introduction too even reading that <&>8:00</&> again this
      morning i think that that needs um you know a <.>s</.> a lot
      more quite hard hitting things that could go into that and i
      would hope that you people have got um comments and criticisms
      of things to change um <,>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0345:JY>
      <.>th</.> i do believe now there probably needs to be a section
      on um <.>ma</.> on the <.>ma</.> the maori scene um cos that did
      as i started to get into that <?>as i say</?> i went to
      interview um eve i ended up talking to theo worden at the film
      commission and picking up a kind of whole set of trends in there

  <WSC#DGZ054:0350:JY>
      there seems to be a range of different needs in that area some
      are the same some are <{2><[2>different</[2> and um i feel that
      <,> i can talk in more depth about that but that particular area
      needs workshopping um a bit more extensively <{3><[3><unclear>word</unclear></[3>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0355:??>
      <[1><O>clears throat</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0360:??>
      <[2><O>clears throat</O></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0365:EV>
      <[3>have</[3></{3> have you talked to phil in relation to that
      <{><[><?>judy</?></[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0370:JY>
      <[>i've</[></{> talked to phil

  <WSC#DGZ054:0375:JY>
      i've talked to er i haven't talked to rerehau cos she hasn't
      been here

  <WSC#DGZ054:0380:EV>
      no

  <WSC#DGZ054:0385:JY>
      er we've talked to hemi morehu

  <WSC#DGZ054:0390:JY>
      we've talked to <&>9:00</&> kevin mcleod and i've had a talk to
      um er neralie ngatai um pania reed and um melissa mataira <{1><[1>which
      has given us sort of a <.>fair</.></[1> <{2><[2>fairly <unclear>word</unclear></[2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0395:NL>
      <[1>oh okay <,> fantastic</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0400:EV>
      <[2>good cover</[2></{2> <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0405:NL>
      that's a very <{><[>good</[> cover <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0410:??>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0415:??>
      <{><[>mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0420:JY>
      <[>of</[></{> of the you know the young fairly bushy tailed up
      and coming young film maker who's been on a couple of training
      projects through to people that've been in the industry a while
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0425:??>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0430:JY>
      phil's view of it is that <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0435:??>
      <O>clears throat</O> <latch> um well i <O>voc</O> that basically
      we need to look at who is out there in the maori scene <?>he
      said</?> a lot of money has been pumped in at preentry level
      <{1><[1><unclear>word</unclear></[1> a lot <{2><[2><unclear>word</unclear></[2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0440:NL>
      <[1><O>laughs</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0445:EV>
      <[2><?>tell me about it</?></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0450:NL>
      <?>yeah you know</?> <{><[>mm mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0455:JY>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{> the understatement of the
      year <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0460:NL>
      <{><[>mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0465:TD>
      <[>mm</[></{> <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0470:JY>
      millions three point two million on <{><[>rhonda's</[> course um

  <WSC#DGZ054:0475:JY>
      goodness knows how many million for <?>the <&>name</&></?>
      project

  <WSC#DGZ054:0480:??>
      <[><O>clears throat</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0485:BN>
      <?>mm</?>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0490:JY>
      and so what we need to look at is who is still in the industry
      and kind of what is the skills <&>10:00</&> level and why is
      nell stroke eve and i know we didn't talk about this in huge
      depth why are we <{><[>not</[> hearing from some of these people

  <WSC#DGZ054:0495:EV>
      <[>no</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0500:??>
      mhm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0505:EV>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0510:JY>
      because theo worden actually believes that the that the problems
      are <?><.>a</.></?> are very very basic

  <WSC#DGZ054:0515:JY>
      <{1><[1>they're at the point</[1> where <O>voc</O> good
      submissions aren't even being written

  <WSC#DGZ054:0520:JY>
      you know <{2><[2>that</[2> people are having real difficulty in
      getting basic submissions onto paper

  <WSC#DGZ054:0525:TD>
      <[1>mm that's right</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0530:BN>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0535:EV>
      um hemi would probably have backed that up <{><[>too</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0540:JY>
      <[>yeah</[></{> and then there becomes a whole interesting
      debate about should people be able to do oral submissions cos my
      teaching experience <{1><[1>with</[1> some of these people shows
      me that when you ask people in a course go away and write a
      proposal for film or a t v programme they'll tell you orally a
      brilliant programme and they'll go <{2><[2>away</[2> and write
      something that's absolutely <{3><[3>disappointing</[3> in the
      extreme

  <WSC#DGZ054:0545:JY>
      and so <,> mel mataira talked about she <?>thought</?> a need
      for young maori to have to be professional to present their
      stuff but also to be able to back that up verbally was very
      important in terms of a sort of bicultural development <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0550:EV>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0555:BN>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0560:TD>
      <[3>yes</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0565:NL>
      rerehau would <{><[>would endorse that</[> <?>same</?>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0570:JY>
      <[>mm yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0575:JY>
      so <&>11:00</&>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0580:NL>
      <O>clears throat</O> <?>notion</?>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0585:JY>
      um <,> yeah so so i've i mean <O>tut</O> that area i felt

  <WSC#DGZ054:0590:TD>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0595:JY>
      theo was away at a <indig=Maori>hui</indig=Maori> when i tried
      to get back to him <?>but</?> that area needs quite a lot more
      <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0600:TD>
      <[>i think if you're very</[></{> i think <.>i</.> if you
      haven't had an extended review i think it would be very
      worthwhile having one with theo because he's

  <WSC#DGZ054:0605:BN>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0610:JY>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0615:TD>
      he's developing a lot of knowledge <{><[>actually you know</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0620:JY>
      <[>mm well just in</[></{> twenty minutes he gave me

  <WSC#DGZ054:0625:TD>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0630:JY>
      you know <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0635:BN>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0640:JY>
      several <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0645:BN>
      <[>where is where</[></{> is is the funding <?>from</?> those
      schemes coming from um various kinds of state

  <WSC#DGZ054:0650:JY>
      <O>tut</O> <O>voc</O> <{><[><.>f</.> <.>fun</.> funding for <.>p</.>
      phil</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0655:BN>
      <[><?>is is funding er</?></[></{> new zealand employment
      schemes <{><[>etcetera</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0660:JY>
      <[>not any more</[></{> now brendan

  <WSC#DGZ054:0665:BN>
      no <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0670:JY>
      you see <&>name</&> came under um <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0675:EV>
      t v

  <WSC#DGZ054:0680:JY>
      t v <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[> <.>ma</.> and maccess
      <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0685:BN>
      <[><.>ac</.> maccess</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0690:BN>
      <{><[>maccess yeah</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0695:JY>
      <[>maccess funded</[></{> phil's scheme

  <WSC#DGZ054:0700:EV>
      <{><[>mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0705:TD>
      <[>mm</[></{> <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0710:JY>
      and of course <?>they've</?> they've still got the gear up there

  <WSC#DGZ054:0715:BN>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0720:JY>
      and that's another very fruitful area of research i believe is
      actually to look at where is all this kind of video gear and
      stuff

  <WSC#DGZ054:0725:JY>
      it's i mean <O>voc</O> this <{><[>you know <?><.>s</.></?>
      there's there's</[> editing machines stacked three deep
      <&>12:00</&> out at avalon gathering dust that that students at
      swinburn or anyone else would you know kill for <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0730:BN>
      <[><?>what sort of a oh</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0735:BN>
      yeah

  <WSC#DGZ054:0740:JY>
      there's phil's equipment

  <WSC#DGZ054:0745:BN>
      throw some <{1><[1>money away throw <{2><[2>some</[2> money on
      mm</[1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0750:JY>
      <[1>i mean so that's another thing we need to put on the list</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0755:NL>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0760:TD>
      throw the money

  <WSC#DGZ054:0765:BN>
      throw the money <{><[><unclear>word</unclear> <?>yeah yeah yeah</?></[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0770:TD>
      <[>throw the money on the concrete and the machinery and not</[></{>
      on the talent

  <WSC#DGZ054:0775:TD>
      <{><[>this is exactly the <?>whole</?></[> <unclear>word</unclear>
      problem <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0780:BN>
      <[>that's right yeah yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0785:JY>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0790:TD>
      you know <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0795:JY>
      um

  <WSC#DGZ054:0800:TD>
      it's the development of the talent <{><[>which is most important</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0805:BN>
      <[>typical government response</[></{> <{><[><?>to um</?></[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0810:AM>
      <[><?>yes</[></{> it is</?>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0815:BN>
      <O>tut</O> dealing with things <{><[>classic oh classic yes mm</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0820:NL>
      <[>the <&>name</&> scheme was the big one the</[></{> the
      television took in <{><[>fifty</[> maori trainees in the late
      eighties

  <WSC#DGZ054:0825:??>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0830:TD>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0835:AM>
      mm

  <WSC#DGZ054:0840:NL>
      <drawls>and</drawls> <?>there</?> there's i think there is
      nobody from that scheme although there were some really
      stunningly good people <{><[>there's nobody now</[>

  <WSC#DGZ054:0845:AM>
      <[>no <?><.>ev</.></?> no</[></{> evaluations

  <WSC#DGZ054:0850:TD>
      that's right <&>12:40</&>
</I>
