<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>0:20</&>
  

  <WSC#DPC115:0005:BR>
      we won't be disturbed

  <WSC#DPC115:0010:AT>
      mm we <{><[>hope</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0015:BR>
      <[>what time</[></{> is your class

  <WSC#DPC115:0020:AT>
      it's quarter past ten but i have to go and try and get the
      sticks um <O>tut</O>

  <WSC#DPC115:0025:AT>
      what do you call those long sticks that <{><[>they use for the
      er</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0030:BR>
      <[>oh <indig=Maori>rakau</indig=Maori> <?>ones</?></[></{> yes
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0035:AT>
      <indig=Maori>ti rakau</indig=Maori> mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0040:BR>
      right

  <WSC#DPC115:0045:AT>
      because mere asked me to try and get them

  <WSC#DPC115:0050:AT>
      mere's taking my class <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0055:BR>
      <[>oh that's</[></{> good <,,><&>3</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0060:AT>
      now we need to work out those criteria <?>for outstanding</?>
      and we need to do the course outline so which one shall we do
      first

  <WSC#DPC115:0065:BR>
      we'll do the criteria if i understand well <&>1:00</&> maybe <?>similar
      <.>to</.></?> <,,><&>3</&> to the other m s one hundreds <,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0070:AT>
      well i think they'll be somewhere between the one hundreds and
      the <{><[>three hundreds</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0075:BR>
      <[>three hundreds</[></{> yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0080:AT>
      i went to that course on assessment the <{><[>other night</[>
      and um i've got <.>mo</.> mixed feelings about it <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DPC115:0085:BR>
      <[>oh did you</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0090:BR>
      right

  <WSC#DPC115:0095:AT>
      the thing that really got me was one of the points that came up
      <.>w</.> he was talking about a biology criteria that they were
      trying to set down for <.>biolo</.> a biology <.>course</.>
      secondary biology course and one of the things that the teachers
      wanted to include was caring about living things <,> um <O>tut</O>
      and all the teachers thought that was important but they had to
      ditch it in the end because there was no way they could assess
      it and i find that <laughs>sort of thing</laughs> really
      alarming that you take <&>2:00</&> something out of your
      objectives <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0100:BR>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0105:AT>
      simply because you can't assess it <,,> so er

  <WSC#DPC115:0110:BR>
      wouldn't you <.>c</.> assess it <.>on</.> on <.>behaviour</.>
      behaviour <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DPC115:0115:AT>
      but it's subjective you see and <.>of</.> of course it's
      important and <{1><[1>you can assess it</[1> in your head but
      you can't actually <{2><[2>write down</[2> things and <.>the</.>
      oh so <.>i</.> that really worries me but apart from <.>th</.>
      that i found that basically <.>the</.> <,> achievement based
      assessment is more or less what we do anyway so that was quite
      comforting because i <{3><[3>hadn't</[3> caught up with the
      jargon

  <WSC#DPC115:0120:BR>
      <[1><drawls>yes</drawls></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0125:BR>
      <[2>write it down</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0130:BR>
      <[3><.>but</.> yes</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DPC115:0135:BR>
      yeah doesn't it differ from <,,><&>3</&> you <.>know</.> in
      terms of language learning <,,><&>3</&> assessment

  <WSC#DPC115:0140:BR>
      <.>h</.> how did <.>w</.> how would you assess say language
      <&>3:00</&> learning as opposed to achieving a number of
      criteria in your maths you know <{1><[1>in your maths</[1>
      lesson

  <WSC#DPC115:0145:BR>
      say for instance you want to find out whether children are
      achieving in addition or subtraction <{2><[2>whatever it</[2>
      may be

  <WSC#DPC115:0150:BR>
      that would be quite easy to assess but <{3><[3>how would</[3>
      you assess something like a language <.>learning</.> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0155:AT>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0160:AT>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0165:AT>
      <[3>mm</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DPC115:0170:AT>
      mm well it really is very difficult

  <WSC#DPC115:0175:BR>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC115:0180:AT>
      because you can even spout sentences on cue but not necessarily
      use them in real <indig=Maori>korero</indig=Maori> <{><[>situation</[>
      and that's the sort of thing that i think goes against us when
      it comes to <.>this</.>

  <WSC#DPC115:0185:BR>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0190:BR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0195:AT>
      type of assessment <,,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0200:AT>
      i mean our students' pronunciation for <.>instance</.> our
      students might pronounce maori beautifully when we ask them to
      recite this or that but then when it comes to actually
      pronouncing it correctly when they're <&>4:00</&> talking about
      a street name or a place name and things that's <.>when</.>
      that's really the <{><[>crunch isn't it</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0205:BR>
      <[>when it's yes</[></{> in <.>n</.> normal run of <{1><[1>conversation
      mm</[1> so it is difficult for us but um <.>i</.> i've got this
      list here about the criteria that i thought we might glance at
      as we go through this um

  <WSC#DPC115:0210:BR>
      criteria must be consistent with course objectives

  <WSC#DPC115:0215:BR>
      <{2><[2>well i suppose that's fairly</[2> basic er

  <WSC#DPC115:0220:BR>
      do you want to have a look at <{3><[3>that

  <WSC#DPC115:0225:BR>
      i <.>might</.> actually i might</[3> run a copy off <{4><[4>yeah
      afterwards

  <WSC#DPC115:0230:BR>
      yeah just have a look at it</[4> now but <.>i'll</.> i'll run a
      copy off afterwards mm? <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0235:AT>
      <[1>mm yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0240:AT>
      <[2>yes mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0245:AT>
      <[3><.>c</.> <unclear>word</unclear> a copy</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DPC115:0250:AT>
      <[4>well the <.>photocopier's</.> <unclear>word</unclear></[4></{4>

  <WSC#DPC115:0255:AT>
      it may pay <.>to</.> for us to <.>have</.> both have <.>a</.>
      have a <{><[>copy each so that <unclear>word</unclear></[>
      copiers on

  <WSC#DPC115:0260:AT>
      oh okay then

  <WSC#DPC115:0265:AT>
      well that won't take a minute

  <WSC#DPC115:0270:BR>
      <[>oh yes okay well i'll go yes okay well i'll go and do a copy
      now

  <WSC#DPC115:0275:BR>
      is the <.>printer</.> er copier on</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0280:BR>
      right now i want <.>to</.> <,,><&>23</&> <&>5:11</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0285:BR>
      anything new though in assessment <.>and</.> <?>did you <{><[>find
      anything</?></[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0290:AT>
      <[>no</[></{> well <.>i</.> <.>i</.> i found <.>ou</.> i felt
      more comfortable in some ways because <.>there</.> i felt more
      comfortable that it's more or less what i'm aiming for <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0295:BR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0300:AT>
      but I feel as if i'm a long way away from it <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0305:BR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0310:AT>
      and that we probably all are in our <{1><[1>department</[1> but
      i ALSO have this nagging feeling of is it really worth striving
      for um to be able to <{2><[2>assess everything

  <WSC#DPC115:0315:AT>
      aren't there</[2> some things

  <WSC#DPC115:0320:BR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0325:BR>
      <[2><.>w</.> yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0330:BR>
      that we have to <.>g</.> let go

  <WSC#DPC115:0335:AT>
      that are PRECIOUS

  <WSC#DPC115:0340:BR>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0345:AT>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0350:BR>
      yeah and that can only <.>be</.> it's HARD to assess those
      internal things <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0355:AT>
      mm it is <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0360:BR>
      it really is

  <WSC#DPC115:0365:BR>
      you can't put a number to <.>them</.> to them or a LETTER to
      them or sometimes even words

  <WSC#DPC115:0370:AT>
      no no it's a gut feeling <{1><[1>often isn't</[1> it and they do
      include attitudes in their <,> um <{2><[2>types of objectives</[2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0375:BR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1> <&>6:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0380:BR>
      <[2>right and that's important</[2></{2> i think <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0385:AT>
      <[>yes</[></{> <.>but</.> but THEY seem to think that you can
      assess attitudes in that calculating way and <.>i</.> i have my
      doubts about that

  <WSC#DPC115:0390:AT>
      i think it's all very subjective

  <WSC#DPC115:0395:BR>
      yes it is

  <WSC#DPC115:0400:AT>
      <O>tut</O> um but at <.>least</.> at least i know that we're
      moving in the right direction with it

  <WSC#DPC115:0405:BR>
      is there any other department who are involved in <.>language</.>
      actual language learning

  <WSC#DPC115:0410:AT>
      in the <{><[>college here?</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0415:BR>
      <[>in the</[></{> college

  <WSC#DPC115:0420:AT>
      no though english would have the same sorts of difficulties as
      WE do <{><[>in that</[> they're looking at literature um
      language acquisition er in terms of furthering their knowledge
      of english

  <WSC#DPC115:0425:BR>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0430:BR>
      yeah but <.>then</.>

  <WSC#DPC115:0435:AT>
      and those things <{><[>are hard to assess too</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0440:BR>
      <[>it's <.>different</.> it's different</[></{> though with
      being less <.>sh</.> you know <&>7:00</&> lot of the students
      have alREADY got a basic knowledge of english haven't they and
      quite a rounded knowledge of english <{><[><unclear>word</unclear>
      whereas with OURS</[> it's just a completely new language

  <WSC#DPC115:0445:AT>
      <[>and certainly they all know that english is <unclear>word</unclear></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0450:AT>
      mm <,> it's different in that respect and it's different too in
      that ours need <?>winning over</?> <{><[>often</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0455:BR>
      <[>yes</[></{> yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0460:AT>
      but in terms of difficulty in assessing it i bet it's very HARD
      for them to assess somebody's feeling for literature for
      instance

  <WSC#DPC115:0465:BR>
      yes yes yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0470:AT>
      so i think they've got very similar difficulties and perhaps we
      should meet with them at some stage to talk about assessment

  <WSC#DPC115:0475:BR>
      <quietly>oh</quietly> we <.>ch</.> yeah and <.>w</.> i guess
      yeah for our departments we would have similar er problems with
      assessment <{><[>as they would</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0480:AT>
      <[>mm</[></{> mm and the other department of course is
      <indig=Maori>tuhonohono tangata</indig=Maori> because they have
      that business of attitudes

  <WSC#DPC115:0485:BR>
      <quietly>mm</quietly>

  <WSC#DPC115:0490:AT>
      <drawls>um</drawls> that's almost entirely what <&>8:00</&>
      they're all about isn't <{><[>it attitudes</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0495:BR>
      <[>yes</[></{> yes right it is it is and look how a lot of the
      <.>students</.> not boycotted but didn't enrol in their classes
      <{><[>and their</[> numbers were real low down

  <WSC#DPC115:0500:AT>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0505:AT>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC115:0510:BR>
      as compared to previous years and i <.>wo</.> just wonder
      whether that's an attitudinal thing <,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0515:AT>
      <O>tut</O> i think it's only partly that but partly people are
      coming to maori studies for <.>their</.> for their BIculturalism
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0520:BR>
      mm mm

  <WSC#DPC115:0525:AT>
      and <.>they've</.> <,> they've perhaps moved away from wanting
      the multicultural

  <WSC#DPC115:0530:AT>
      <.>i</.> i would see that as PARTLY positive but there may be
      negative things going on there too

  <WSC#DPC115:0535:BR>
      <quietly>mm</quietly> <,,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0540:AT>
      anyway it's something we need to <{><[>look at</[> but before we
      set our own criteria perhaps we could have a look at this and
      just see if we can <laughs>learn anything from it</laughs>
      <,,><&>3</&> <&>9:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0545:BR>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0550:BR>
      it says here in c the criteria should identify strengths rather
      than weaknesses and be written in positive language

  <WSC#DPC115:0555:AT>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0560:BR>
      but <.>then</.> isn't weaknesses also part of our <.>a</.>
      assessment and examination <,> is it

  <WSC#DPC115:0565:BR>
      <{><[>not so much</[> pointing out the weaknesses but it's <.>expressing</.>
      it's the way we express it i suppose <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0570:AT>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0575:AT>
      mm there ARE some examples here from the biology course um
      <,,><&>5</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0580:AT>
      that's very small but <.>that</.> there are some examples there
      when you say <.>that</.> what the child or the person CAN do

  <WSC#DPC115:0585:BR>
      right

  <WSC#DPC115:0590:AT>
      um something like he SOMEtimes pronounces maori words correctly
      for instance <{><[><laughs><.>so</.></laughs></[> so it DOES say
      that most of the time he <&>10:00</&> doesn't but <,> <O>tut</O>
      um <,,><&>3</&> <O>tut</O> <,,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0595:AT>
      yes there was a better one there that was clearer and i can't
      find it <,,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0600:AT>
      oh here was one

  <WSC#DPC115:0605:AT>
      <reads>level one atTEMPTS to draw a graph

  <WSC#DPC115:0610:AT>
      level two draws a graph which has SOME points correctly placed

  <WSC#DPC115:0615:AT>
      level three draws a graph which has MOST points correctly placed</reads>
      and that's the sort of way they do it

  <WSC#DPC115:0620:BR>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0625:BR>
      yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0630:AT>
      and um

  <WSC#DPC115:0635:BR>
      yes <.>well</.> yeah here it is here

  <WSC#DPC115:0640:BR>
      <reads>attitudes works towards a completion of some
      investigations completes SOME <.>invesi</.> completes MOST
      <drawls>investigations</drawls></reads> <{><[>completes
      investigations yes</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0645:AT>
      <[>yes that's the way they do it</[></{> mm but THEN <.>there's</.>
      I took issue with this use of frequently and USUALLY

  <WSC#DPC115:0650:BR>
      <O>voc</O> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0655:AT>
      now to YOU if i frequently <,,> um remember to pronounce maori
      words properly and you USUALLY remember to pronounce <{><[>maori</[>
      words properly who does it most <,> <&>11:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0660:BR>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0665:BR>
      the <.>fre</.> the frequent one would it

  <WSC#DPC115:0670:AT>
      <O>laughs</O> well that's the way <{><[>they've got it</[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0675:BR>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{> yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0680:AT>
      but to ME it's the other way round

  <WSC#DPC115:0685:AT>
      usually means almost all the time

  <WSC#DPC115:0690:AT>
      <{><[>i mean <.>that's</.> <.>that's</.></[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0695:BR>
      <[>frequently</[></{> does too

  <WSC#DPC115:0700:AT>
      frequently just means often to ME but i mean these words are
      <{1><[1>also</[1> <,> very um <O>tut</O> individual aren't they

  <WSC#DPC115:0705:AT>
      we use words in a different <{2><[2>way <.>i</.></[2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0710:BR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0715:BR>
      <[2>and of course they</[2></{2> have individual <.>term</.> <.>t</.>
      you know <.>m</.> <.>me</.> it's obviously it means <.>s</.>
      something different to you than it does to me <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0720:AT>
      EXACTLY and when i went home and um talked about that one to
      lenny HIS usage of frequently and usually is the same as mine
      but i guarantee if you got a room full of <{><[>people you <.>would</.>
      <O>laughs</O></[>

  <WSC#DPC115:0725:BR>
      <[>yes you'd have <.>split</.> <O>laughs</O></[></{> <,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0730:BR>
      no

  <WSC#DPC115:0735:AT>
      yes <{><[>you'd have</[> different <.>ideas</.> this was it
      <,,><&>3</&>

  <WSC#DPC115:0740:AT>
      oh that was another <.>one</.> that was an <&>12:00</&> art one

  <WSC#DPC115:0745:AT>
      anyway we'll look at these some other time

  <WSC#DPC115:0750:BR>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC115:0755:BR>
      yes

  <WSC#DPC115:0760:AT>
      but i argue with that use of frequently <.>and</.> yes they have
      the <.>criter</.> <reads>rarely sometimes <{1><[1>USUALLY</[1>
      frequently and consistently</reads>

  <WSC#DPC115:0765:AT>
      to me i would turn the usually and the frequently round the
      other way because to me frequently means often and usually means
      well that's my HABIT but occasionally i break it

  <WSC#DPC115:0770:AT>
      if i say i FREQUENTLY have breakfast in the mornings to me that
      might mean four or five times a week but if i USUALLY have
      breakfast it means <{2><[2>that i DO have breakfast it's just
      once in a</[2> blue moon i forget <.>or</.> or don't moon i
      forget <.>or</.> or don't have time so to me they're the other
      way round but you could argue it until the cows came <{3><[3>home
      and</[3> i bet there'd be people who would differ on that so the
      very <laughs>criteria</laughs> that you set down <{4><[4>are so</[4>
      important <{5><[5><.>and</.></[5> and so PERSONAL

  <WSC#DPC115:0775:BR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0780:BR>
      <[2>yes yes yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0785:BR>
      <[3>yes</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DPC115:0790:BR>
      <[4>mm</[4></{4>

  <WSC#DPC115:0795:BR>
      <[5>it is</[5></{5>

  <WSC#DPC115:0800:BR>
      mm very personal <O>tut</O> and it's also personal <&>13:00</&>
      to the <.>writer</.> to the assessor

  <WSC#DPC115:0805:AT>
      yes of course it is but THESE ones were interesting <.>because</.>
      have a look at those <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DPC115:0810:AT>
      borrow these anyway and go through <{1><[1>them but</[1> there
      is an actual report that has been written according to these
      criteria those um <,> those college ones <,,>

  <WSC#DPC115:0815:AT>
      oh that side that's the one

  <WSC#DPC115:0820:AT>
      those ones have been written on on the basis of this type of um
      information <{2><[2>you</[2> see and <,> it says <reads>in the
      area of communication winton can communicate written ideas to
      others

  <WSC#DPC115:0825:AT>
      orally he communicates ideas clearly and tries to promote
      interest

  <WSC#DPC115:0830:AT>
      when searching for information he locates information but
      requires assistance to select <&>14:00</&> appropriate material

  <WSC#DPC115:0835:AT>
      he accurately records relevant data and presents it

  <WSC#DPC115:0840:AT>
      he also produces diagrams

  <WSC#DPC115:0845:AT>
      he <laughs>uses detailed observations and makes comparisons</laughs></reads>
      and it all sort of <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0850:BR>
      <[1>mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC115:0855:BR>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC115:0860:BR>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC115:0865:AT>
      sounds very impressive but apparently that was all written with
      a computer <&>14:15</&>
</I>
