<I>

  <&>Wellington Corpus of Spoken New Zealand English Version One</&>
  <&>Copyright 1998 School of Linguistics & Applied Language Studies</&>
  <&>Victoria University of Wellington</&>

  <&>side one</&>
  <&>19:39</&>
  

  <WSC#DPC317:0005:BB>
      the and she said on the other hand you see with tipene <.>the</.>

  <WSC#DPC317:0010:BB>
      i don't know <O>voc</O> i don't know i don't know how to
      categorise his comment er that he'd be happy with being called
      stephen

  <WSC#DPC317:0015:AR>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0020:BB>
      <drawls>er</drawls> but and the <.>ma</.> maybe the <.>b</.>
      place for tipene is on the <indig=Maori>marae</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DPC317:0025:BB>
      now i don't <.>know</.> didn't know how to READ that <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0030:AR>
      that's <&>20:00</&> right that's right i <.>was</.> yes i was
      intrigued with that <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0035:BB>
      <drawls>yeah</drawls> <{><[>yeah</[> maybe you know there was
      <.>a</.> there was an element of denigration there and i don't
      know

  <WSC#DPC317:0040:BB>
      <?>it was</?> very difficult to <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0045:AR>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0050:AR>
      yes <{><[>yes</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0055:BB>
      <[>cos</[></{> he would deny that er <{1><[1>as he should

  <WSC#DPC317:0060:BB>
      as he <laughs>should you see</[1> now that he's <.>in</.> a
      member of the <?>brown <{2><[2>table</?></laughs> <O>laughs</O></[2>
      <O>clears throat</O>

  <WSC#DPC317:0065:AR>
      <[1>yes yes yes yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0070:AR>
      <[2><O>laughs</O></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0075:AR>
      yes <{><[>yeah</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0080:BB>
      <[>yeah</[></{> the er

  <WSC#DPC317:0085:BB>
      <{><[><?>so <.>the</.></?></[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0090:AR>
      <[>i wanted to</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0095:AR>
      did you see the programme on sunday on the <O>voc</O>
      homosexuality of maori <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0100:BB>
      NO <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0105:AR>
      it's on the <title>marae</title> on the <{><[>er sunday morning
      programme</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0110:BB>
      <[>er on the <.>ma</.></[></{> sunday morning

  <WSC#DPC317:0115:BB>
      <{1><[1><?>well</?> <.>i</.></[1> i was at a <{2><[2>family
      <unclear>word</unclear></[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0120:AR>
      <[1>yeah</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0125:AR>
      <[2>oh <.>it</.> it</[2></{2> was fascinating <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0130:BB>
      my wife was quite er <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0135:AR>
      did she watch it yes? <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0140:BB>
      she wasn't <{><[>FASCINATED</[> by it she was worried by it
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0145:AR>
      <[>yes yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0150:AR>
      yes well i ended up with that

  <WSC#DPC317:0155:AR>
      i was <{><[>fascinated by the</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0160:BB>
      <[>she she</[></{> yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0165:AR>
      way people presented there's a certain <.>am</.> a

  <WSC#DPC317:0170:AR>
      i thought there was a little bit of myth making

  <WSC#DPC317:0175:AR>
      they were making it sound

  <WSC#DPC317:0180:AR>
      there were two things i picked up er which was <O>inhales</O>

  <WSC#DPC317:0185:AR>
      one is that the driving force for creativity in <indig=Maori>hapu</indig=Maori>
      and <indig=Maori>iwi</indig=Maori> <&>21:00</&> has often come
      from gay people

  <WSC#DPC317:0190:AR>
      now and then er <{1><[1>there were one or two instances cited
      now but <.>i</.></[1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0195:AR>
      yes well i <.>i</.> i don't know whether that's true or not

  <WSC#DPC317:0200:AR>
      <{2><[2>but it</[2> sort of sounded like a justifying er you
      know looking <drawls>a</drawls> reason to justify a particular
      STANCE <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0205:BB>
      <[1>yeah <?>see</?> <.>that</.> that's what worried her <.>th</.>
      the assertions</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0210:BB>
      <[2>that's right</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0215:BB>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0220:AR>
      <.>th</.> the second one was the um er the firm conviction that
      um er maori culture's ability to to um <unclear>word</unclear>
      ACCEPT <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0225:BB>
      and accommodate mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0230:AR>
      and accommodate <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0235:BB>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0240:AR>
      er members of its kinship group means acceptance of the norm

  <WSC#DPC317:0245:AR>
      <.>an</.> and what was coming together was <?>yes see</?> er
      acceptance means that maori had agreed <&>22:00</&> to this as a
      as <.>a</.> as a norm

  <WSC#DPC317:0250:AR>
      as one of its norms <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0255:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0260:AR>
      and i you know i <.>j</.> i just held back on that because <{1><[1>er</[1>
      i <?><.>w</.></?> just wonder whether it was <{2><[2>stretching</[2>
      a point

  <WSC#DPC317:0265:BB>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0270:BB>
      <[2><.>that</.></[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0275:BB>
      that <.>w</.> <.>that</.> that's the worrying point <.>for</.>
      for my wife <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0280:AR>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0285:BB>
      see <.>they're</.> they were trying to NORMalise <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0290:AR>
      <?>that's right</?> <latch> <.>that</.> that behaviour

  <WSC#DPC317:0295:BB>
      when in actual fact see the word that that we use <.>in</.> in
      ngati porou for that is <O>voc</O> that those people have <O>voc</O>
      are <indig=Maori>TAONGA</indig=Maori>

  <WSC#DPC317:0300:BB>
      er yeah because they're part of <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DPC317:0305:BB>
      but they also have a <indig=Maori>mate</indig=Maori> <{><[><O>clears
      throat</O> okay</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0310:BB>
      and <.>that</.> <.>the</.> and and and and it wasn't an excuse
      <,> see <.>the</.> the idea of a <indig=Maori>mate</indig=Maori>
      wasn't an excuse

  <WSC#DPC317:0315:AR>
      <[>yes yes yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0320:AR>
      yes yes

  <WSC#DPC317:0325:BB>
      that er that it need to be <,,> need to be um er i guess
      observed and <.>they</.> they still need <.>to</.> <.>they</.>
      they had a right to be part of the <indig=Maori>hapu</indig=Maori>
      <{1><[1><?>the</?></[1> kinship <{2><[2>group</[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0330:AR>
      <[1>yes</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0335:AR>
      <[2>yes</[2></{2> yes

  <WSC#DPC317:0340:BB>
      <drawls>um</drawls> and you see the normality as i see it from
      where I come from <.>in</.> in my <&>23:00</&> community was cos
      you know we had people with that <.>s</.> with those TRAITS
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0345:AR>
      yes yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0350:BB>
      er they were not <.>tre</.>

  <WSC#DPC317:0355:BB>
      if they were men <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0360:AR>
      mm <latch> they were given MEN'S work <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0365:AR>
      yes yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0370:AR>
      and you know <O>voc</O> and i know of a family <.>that</.> that
      expected <.>the</.> <.>the</.> <.>th</.> the person with those
      showing those tendencies to be

  <WSC#DPC317:0375:AR>
      he was made to plough <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0380:AR>
      mm <latch> like the other brothers

  <WSC#DPC317:0385:AR>
      yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0390:BB>
      and he was expected to milk the cows like the <{><[>other</[>
      brothers <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0395:AR>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0400:AR>
      <quietly>mm</quietly> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0405:BB>
      he was expected to go fencing like the others

  <WSC#DPC317:0410:BB>
      he was not given treatment other than what his gender <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0415:AR>
      yes <latch> required him to <.>b</.> to do <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0420:AR>
      yes yes

  <WSC#DPC317:0425:BB>
      and in that sense <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0430:AR>
      yeah <latch> that's the normality <{1><[1><,> for</[1> for for
      for <.>u</.> for us

  <WSC#DPC317:0435:BB>
      but <.>to</.> to accept the behaviour itself as normal was not
      you know in terms of you know <drawls>the</drawls> <,,>
      manifesting those <{2><[2>tendencies</[2> into a relationship

  <WSC#DPC317:0440:BB>
      i don't think that was the normal bit but then i could be wrong
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0445:AR>
      <[1>that's right that's right</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0450:AR>
      <[2>yep</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0455:AR>
      yes yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0460:BB>
      <quietly>could be wrong</quietly>

  <WSC#DPC317:0465:BB>
      <?>but</?> all i know <&>24:00</&> is that <.>in</.> in my life
      experiences that that um the men who showed those tendency were
      expected to milk the cows

  <WSC#DPC317:0470:BB>
      <?>one of them</?> was actually a good shoer of horses <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0475:AR>
      yes right

  <WSC#DPC317:0480:BB>
      <O>voc</O> yeah and one was a good press <.>perso</.>

  <WSC#DPC317:0485:BB>
      you know pressing wool

  <WSC#DPC317:0490:BB>
      and became an expert at pressing and classing wool <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0495:AR>
      yeah

  <WSC#DPC317:0500:BB>
      and he's still alive today <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0505:AR>
      yeah

  <WSC#DPC317:0510:BB>
      and er and that's the normal part and you know <?>he <.>just</.></?>
      he talked about this <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0515:AR>
      <[>now i</[></{> had no trouble i mean <O>voc</O>

  <WSC#DPC317:0520:AR>
      given <.>th</.> the <.>the</.> the pluralism that's now <{><[><drawls>accepted</drawls></[>
      as part of <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0525:BB>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0530:BB>
      mm <latch> new zealand society and i think also the pluralism of
      ideas in human behaviour that's acceptable within a maori
      society now <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0535:BB>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0540:AR>
      there is a <.>plur</.> <.>w</.> maori culture itself is <{><[>a</[>
      is a pluralistic one now <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0545:BB>
      <[>right</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0550:BB>
      that's right

  <WSC#DPC317:0555:AR>
      therefore the er er people choosing different um life styles er
      <.>is</.> <.>is</.> is now part of the new norms <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0560:BB>
      that's right <&>25:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:0565:AR>
      but where i would have <.>w</.> <.>w</.> worries was they were
      <.>s</.> trying to go back <{1><[1>into <?>into the past and say
      they a <.>posit</.></?></[1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0570:AR>
      yes and <.>that</.> that <{2><[2>that's <?>what i'm saying</?></[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0575:AR>
      yes from a <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0580:BB>
      <[1><?>and say it had a position in the past</?></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0585:BB>
      <[2><.>that</.> that's the worrying bit</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0590:BB>
      yeah

  <WSC#DPC317:0595:AR>
      yeah i just thought mm <{><[>that's</[> stretching that might be
      stretching the point and <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0600:BB>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0605:BB>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0610:AR>
      er i mean you wouldn't want to bring back the so called good old
      days if they <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0615:BB>
      no <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0620:AR>
      look <.>i</.> i was always thought er

  <WSC#DPC317:0625:AR>
      i was told that um in <?>tai tokerau</?> homosexual people were
      seen as a weak link

  <WSC#DPC317:0630:AR>
      and er and and and on the men's side they were seen as not
      necessarily um the best of <drawls>the</drawls> defenders of the
      people therefore they <{><[>might</[> be killed

  <WSC#DPC317:0635:BB>
      <[>true</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0640:BB>
      mm mm <{><[>mm mm</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0645:AR>
      <[>er</[></{> well you <.>y</.> there's <{><[>no</[> way

  <WSC#DPC317:0650:AR>
      if that is true <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0655:BB>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0660:BB>
      mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0665:AR>
      er well then there's no way you'd want to be advocating that
      just because it was a <{1><[1>practice of the past</[1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0670:AR>
      and so um SO that was my that was the yeah those are the two
      <{2><[2>problems</[2> i had <.>with</.> with <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0675:BB>
      <[1><unclear>word</unclear> mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0680:BB>
      <[2>yeah</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0685:BB>
      <?>with</?> <latch> with the programme <{><[>and</[> because

  <WSC#DPC317:0690:AR>
      but it was an intriguing one

  <WSC#DPC317:0695:BB>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0700:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0705:AR>
      <drawls>um</drawls> and er there was john jones <,> <&>26:00</&>
      <{><[>er</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0710:AR>
      it <.>was</.> it was very powerful

  <WSC#DPC317:0715:AR>
      and um

  <WSC#DPC317:0720:BB>
      <[>yes</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0725:BB>
      well even aaron <{><[>himself</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0730:AR>
      <[>er <?>name</?></[></{> is it

  <WSC#DPC317:0735:BB>
      no we had they were <unclear>word</unclear> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0740:AR>
      yeah <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DPC317:0745:AR>
      yes yes she was <{><[><unclear>word</unclear></[> <unclear>word</unclear>
      very very articulate <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0750:BB>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0755:BB>
      right right

  <WSC#DPC317:0760:AR>
      and um <{><[>actually</[> i thought could have argued their case
      without <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0765:BB>
      <[><unclear>word</unclear></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0770:BB>
      yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0775:AR>
      making it sound as if it's from <{1><[1>from <unclear>word</unclear></[1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0780:AR>
      and there was no need to <{2><[2>just</[2> on simple human
      rights <{3><[3>er</[3>

  <WSC#DPC317:0785:BB>
      <[1>come from the distant past</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0790:BB>
      <[2>mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0795:BB>
      <[3>mm</[3></{3> mm <latch> er basis now <{><[><unclear>word</unclear>
      societies</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0800:BB>
      <[>and and and individual</[></{> preferences

  <WSC#DPC317:0805:AR>
      yeah <{><[>er</[> so er

  <WSC#DPC317:0810:AR>
      but oh no <unclear>word</unclear> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0815:BB>
      <[>that's right</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0820:BB>
      but i think that was a brave venture to to bring out these <.>these</.>
      discussion <{><[>and these behaviours</[> into the open

  <WSC#DPC317:0825:AR>
      <[>mm mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0830:AR>
      yes yes

  <WSC#DPC317:0835:BB>
      er and i think we owe it to our to our children to debate them
      publicly and openly er and continue to debate it <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0840:AR>
      yes yes

  <WSC#DPC317:0845:BB>
      er <,> otherwise you know <O>voc</O> not not to to debate that
      i'm thinking of in terms of continual debate is to to to examine
      it and rigorously <latch> <&>27:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:0850:AR>
      yeah <latch> <drawls>to</drawls>

  <WSC#DPC317:0855:BB>
      in terms of um the traditions <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0860:AR>
      yes yes yeah <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0865:BB>
      that's the the debate <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DPC317:0870:BB>
      now it's not to question the rights of people to behave in that
      way <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0875:AR>
      yes yes <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0880:BB>
      <.>mi</.> mine is terms of looking at rigorously examining what
      did our <indig=Maori>tipuna</indig=Maori> how did our
      <indig=Maori>tipuna</indig=Maori> handle it

  <WSC#DPC317:0885:AR>
      see about two weeks ago there was a <O>voc</O> there was a a
      maori fella

  <WSC#DPC317:0890:AR>
      i don't know i've forgotten his name

  <WSC#DPC317:0895:AR>
      but he was interviewed on er i think it was mana er mana news
      <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0900:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0905:AR>
      and <.>he'd</.> he'd got um the composer from er <?>name</?> um

  <WSC#DPC317:0910:BB>
      oh <?>name</?> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0915:AR>
      yeah <{><[><?>name</?></[> about the the homosexual
      <indig=Maori>haka</indig=Maori> <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:0920:BB>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0925:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0930:AR>
      which it struck me <drawls>as</drawls> i was listening to john
      jones and and <?>name</?> they're talking <unclear>word</unclear>

  <WSC#DPC317:0935:AR>
      the fact that they had to compose a <indig=Maori>haka</indig=Maori>
      <,> um

  <WSC#DPC317:0940:AR>
      and they weren't able to <&>28:00</&> find earlier ones <,> made
      me wonder about well how traditional is <{><[>this</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:0945:AR>
      if it is

  <WSC#DPC317:0950:BB>
      <[><?>that's right</?></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:0955:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0960:AR>
      otherwise it would be coming through and <indig=Maori><?>whakatauaki</?></indig=Maori>
      and <{1><[1><indig=Maori>haka</indig=Maori> and</[1>
      <indig=Maori>waiata</indig=Maori> and and far as i know there's
      very little evidence that these things were actually sung talked
      about or or <{2><[2><unclear>word</unclear></[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0965:BB>
      <[1>that's right</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0970:BB>
      <[2>it doesn't appear</[2></{2> in any of the literature <{1><[1>or</[1>
      the oral <{2><[2>oral traditions mm</[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0975:AR>
      <[1><unclear>word</unclear></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:0980:AR>
      <[2>well whatever yes</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:0985:AR>
      and er <O>tut</O> er so <?>i mean i i again</?> have no
      objection myself to to some of these um <O>tut</O> er <?>but all
      these</?>

  <WSC#DPC317:0990:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:0995:AR>
      but <.>i</.> i actually had thought at one stage it'd be
      interesting to know where the maori church leaders <,> are on
      this issue because the issue of homosexuality has gone through
      most of the church courts

  <WSC#DPC317:1000:BB>
      absolutely <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1005:AR>
      and er but we don't know yet

  <WSC#DPC317:1010:AR>
      i'm not aware of the <O>tut</O> um maori church leaders having a
      view on the matter <.>a</.> at all

  <WSC#DPC317:1015:BB>
      i <{><[><.>think</.> <,> mm mm</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1020:AR>
      <[>cos there's nothing came through the methodists</[></{> the
      er and the <.>v</.> <unclear>word</unclear> other <{><[>churches
      <unclear>word</unclear></[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1025:BB>
      <[>the anglican <?>senate</?></[></{> don't er debate it as i
      understand <{><[>it</[> <&>29:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:1030:AR>
      <[>well</[></{> er the catholic bishops' conference has made
      statements <.>on</.> on <{1><[1>homosexuality</[1> and so on
      <{2><[2>and um</[2> have have taken into account <.>i</.> <.>i</.>
      <?>i know</?>

  <WSC#DPC317:1035:BB>
      <[1>mm</[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:1040:BB>
      <[2>mm mm</[2></{2>

  <WSC#DPC317:1045:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:1050:AR>
      er maori opinion is <?>for</?> maori catholics

  <WSC#DPC317:1055:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:1060:AR>
      um <,> so again i think that most probably that documentary <O>clears
      throat</O> brought out <?>or</?> opened <.>a</.> <.>a</.> <.>a</.>
      er a debate that ought to be taking <{><[>place</[> now

  <WSC#DPC317:1065:BB>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:1070:BB>
      yeah i think so

  <WSC#DPC317:1075:BB>
      <{><[>the</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1080:AR>
      <[>within</[></{> maori society via the religious leaders <,>
      tribal or institutional church or otherwise <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1085:BB>
      mm mm mm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1090:AR>
      there's a <,,> <?>cos</?> there's a lot of advocacy going on now
      which is um

  <WSC#DPC317:1095:BB>
      well various institutions <?>and the</?> police are struggling
      with things like earrings on their ears <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1100:AR>
      that's right that's right <O>laughs</O>

  <WSC#DPC317:1105:BB>
      <drawls>um</drawls> and i think there's a lot of institution <O>voc</O>
      that <O>voc</O> have built up its own er mythology um

  <WSC#DPC317:1110:BB>
      like the navy <.>can</.> can have beards and have a tot of rum
      and things like <&>30:00</&> <{><[>that you know</[> er

  <WSC#DPC317:1115:BB>
      a lot of those need to be examined

  <WSC#DPC317:1120:BB>
      i guess society is at <.>the</.> poised now <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1125:AR>
      <[><O>laughs</O></[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:1130:AR>
      yes <latch> <drawls>where</drawls> generations <unclear>word</unclear>
      the present climate <{><[>will</[> examine all those issues
      including sexual preference <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1135:AR>
      <[>yeah</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:1140:AR>
      yes

  <WSC#DPC317:1145:AR>
      there was a fellow um oh er er who was goes by the professional
      name <?>name</?>

  <WSC#DPC317:1150:AR>
      and <?>name</?> is er a maori actor um

  <WSC#DPC317:1155:AR>
      and he has this play <unclear>word</unclear> it's kind of like a
      monologue in a way

  <WSC#DPC317:1160:AR>
      about the life of helen <{><[>er</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1165:BB>
      <[>how</[></{> helen from <{><[>down town</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1170:AR>
      <[>helen from wellington</[></{> here <{><[>yeah

  <WSC#DPC317:1175:AR>
      and</[> he was making some interesting <.>obs</.>

  <WSC#DPC317:1180:AR>
      <whispers><?>i think it's the tape</?></whispers> <,> oh

  <WSC#DPC317:1185:AR>
      interesting observations er about acting

  <WSC#DPC317:1190:AR>
      he was saying that <O>sniffs</O> he made a contrast between dame
      edna character <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1195:BB>
      <[>mhm mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:1200:BB>
      mm <&>31:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:1205:AR>
      but because the <,> <.>the</.> <.>th</.> the guy who plays the
      dame edna character is a straight male <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1210:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:1215:AR>
      <.>i</.> <.>i</.> it's okay but he <.>this</.> this <?>name</?>
      said when he tries to act out er <{><[>helen on stage</[>

  <WSC#DPC317:1220:BB>
      <[><?>a female personality</?></[></{> helen

  <WSC#DPC317:1225:AR>
      and because he's er <?>acknowledge</?> and open about his
      homosexuality <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1230:BB>
      mhm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1235:AR>
      a lot of theatres won't have him or a lot of er places won't
      have him

  <WSC#DPC317:1240:BB>
      cos too real

  <WSC#DPC317:1245:AR>
      <.>it's</.> yes so they'll either

  <WSC#DPC317:1250:AR>
      he says what he <?>doesn't know</?>

  <WSC#DPC317:1255:AR>
      he says well why

  <WSC#DPC317:1260:AR>
      if he said if i had come up and said well look i'm a married man
      i got five children but i want i got a play here called helen

  <WSC#DPC317:1265:AR>
      then he says he reckons that it would be he'd be able to have it
      in hotels <.>a</.> and working men clubs and <{><[>er</[> lots
      of other places <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1270:BB>
      <[>mm</[></{>

  <WSC#DPC317:1275:BB>
      mhm <latch>

  <WSC#DPC317:1280:AR>
      because er and <{1><[1><?>a <.>very</.> i mean</?></[1> it seems
      to me that was a very <.>intere</.> a very <{2><[2>powerful
      argument actually yeah</[2>

  <WSC#DPC317:1285:AR>
      and it <.>in</.> most probably an indication of existing
      prejudices and um <{3><[3>attitudinal <.>pr</.> er problems</[3>
      about <?>the</?> people have

  <WSC#DPC317:1290:AR>
      er given <{4><[4>now</[4> that these these all part of the
      pluralism that we talked about earlier

  <WSC#DPC317:1295:BB>
      <[1><O>clears throat</O></[1></{1>

  <WSC#DPC317:1300:BB>
      <[2>observation yeah mm</[2></{2> <&>32:00</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:1305:BB>
      <[3>mm <,> mm</[3></{3>

  <WSC#DPC317:1310:BB>
      <[4><unclear>word</unclear></[4></{4>

  <WSC#DPC317:1315:BB>
      mm

  <WSC#DPC317:1320:AR>
      <drawls>er</drawls> so it was er it was yes <?>the play</?> was
      an <{><[>intriguing er</[> intriguing documentary <&>32:20</&>

  <WSC#DPC317:1325:BB>
      <[>mm mm</[></{>
</I>
