IX . (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.3) PROSE . (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.4) " Hitherto hit sufficeth to shewe the forme of gileful felicitie , wiche if you Clirely beholde , the ordar than must be to shewe you the true . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.6) " Yea I se , " quoth I , " that ynough suffiseth not riches , nor Power kingdomes , nor honor dignities , nor glory the prising , nor Joy the pleasure . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.7) " Hast thou gathered the cause of this ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.8) " $Me $thinks {TEXT:Methinkes} I see hit as by a rife slendarly , (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.9) but do desire plainliar of the` to knowe hit . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.10) " Ready is the reason . (BOETHEL-E2-H,57.11) Whan that wiche vnmixt and by nature vnparted is , that humaine error partz , and from the true and right to falz and wanting brings . Dost thou suppose that nothing he wantes that powre needes ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.12) " I think not so . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.13) " Truly thou hast sayde , (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.14) for if ought be that is of weakist worth , must needly neede som others help . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.15) " So it is , " said I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.16) " Therfor the one & self same is nature of sufficiency & powre . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.17) " So it seemes . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.18) " But that ther is such thing , dost thou think it to be despised or wourthy all regarde ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.19) " This is not to be doubted . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.20) " Let vs ad to this sufficiency , powre , reuerence , that these three we may Judge one . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.21) " Let it be , (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.22) for trouth we wyll confesse . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.23) " Dost thou think this any obscure matter or ignoble , or of more show than any other dignitie ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.24) But consider lest it be graunted that that needes not , is most of powre , & worthyest most honour , yet wanting estimation , which to it self it can not giue , And therfore may seeme in som parte to be lesse wourth . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.25) We can not but graunte that this is most reuerenced . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.26) Then it followes , that we confesse a show of glory doth nothing differ from the other three . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.27) " Yt followes , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.28) " Tham that that needes none other , that doth all of his own strength , that is beautifulst & most reuerenced : Is it not playne , that so is most pleasing to ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.29) I can not imagine , how to such a man any sorow can happen , wherfore necessarily it must be confest , that he is full of Joye , if the forenamed remayne . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.30) And by all this it needfully follows , that theffecte of sufficiency , powre , honour , Reuerence , plesure , be diuers names , in substance nothing differs . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.31) That that is then one & symple by nature , humayn synne dispersith ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.32) And in seeking to obtayne such thing as wantith partes , myndith the same to gett , And so nether gettes that portion that is none , nor that partie that desyres none . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.33) " How may this be so ? " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.34) " He that seekith riches by shunning penury , nothing carith for powre , (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.35) he chosith rather to be meane & base , (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.36) & withdrawes him from many naturall delytes , lest he lose the monny that he gat . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.37) But that waye , he hath not ynough , who leves to haue , & greeues in woe , whom neerenes ouerthrowes & obscurenes hydes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.38) He that only desyres to be able , he throwes away riches , (BOETHEL-E2-H,58.39) despisith plesures , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.40) nought esteems honour nor glory that powre wantith . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.41) but how many thinges these men lackes , thou seest . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.42) Somtyme he lackes that necessary is , so as his want doth byte him , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.43) & whan he can not throwe of this , that most he sought , hability he wantes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.44) Thus may we reason of honour , glory , & plesure . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.45) For if all these thinges weare ioynd togither , yf any one were had without the rest , he can not gett that he requires . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.46) " What then ? " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.47) " Yf any man all this can gett , shall he haue the greatest felicitie , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.48) shall he fynde her in these that we haue shewed yo=u= , promise more than they giue ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.49) " Not so , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.50) " In such thinges as ech man desyres to excell in , the true blesse is neuer to be found . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.51) " I confesse it , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.52) " Than this nothing can be true . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.53) " Thou hast , " quoth she , " heere a forme of false felicitie & the cause . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.54) Turn thy selfe now to the contrary syde of the mynde , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.55) for ther shal thou see strait way the true that I promysd . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.56) " This euin to a blinde man is playne , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.57) " and to a litle afore thou showedst , In opening the faulse cause . For els I am deceaued , that is the true & parfet felicitie that makith man content , mighty , reuerenced , honord , & pleasant . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.58) And that thou mayst know , I haue inwardly lookt which of all these might trulyest all exceede . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.59) This I confesse to be true bliss , that is without a doubte . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.60) " O scholler myne , happy art thou for this opinion , yf thou wilt ad one thing withall . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.61) " $What $'s {TEXT:Whats} that ? " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.62) " Dost thou think that ought in mortall & fleeting thinges can make such a state ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.63) " No , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.64) " That thou hast showde sufficiently , as nothing more doth neede . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.65) For these thinges as pictures of true good , seeme to giue som imperfet good to mortall men ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.66) but the true & perfet , bring they can not . (BOETHEL-E2-H,59.67) Because thou knowest now , what be the true good , & what belyeth the true blisse , now it followith , that thou mayst knowe whence thou mayst ask the true . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,60.68) " That is hit , " quoth I , " I haue long lookt for . (BOETHEL-E2-H,60.69) But as Plato in his Timee wills , that we should ask for divine help in meanest maters , what now thinkest thou to be don , wherby we may merite to fynde the seate of greatest good ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,60.70) X . (BOETHEL-E2-H,61.73) PROSE . (BOETHEL-E2-H,61.74) " For that now thou hast seene the forme of imperfett , & true good , Now I think to shewe the` by what the perfection of this felicitie is made . In which first this I think to be inquyrd of , whither any such good ther be , as thou hast defynd a lyttle afore , among natures woorkes , leste a vayne imagination of thought deceaue us wyde from the truthe of that we talke of . (BOETHEL-E2-H,61.76) And to proue it so , It can not be denyed that this is the fountayne of all good thinges . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.77) For all that we call imperfett , is shewed such by the definition of perfection . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.78) So haps it , that if in any thing ther be imperfection , In the self same , somthing must needes be that can be perfett . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.79) For perfection taken away , we can not ymagyne what that is that is imperfect . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.80) For Nature tooke not her begynning of thinges diminished & worne , but of hole & absolute , (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.81) & so cam downe into thes barren & uttermost partes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.82) And if , as a little before I told yo=u= , there be imperfect felicitie of a frayle good , It can not be doubted but that ther is a solide & parfet one . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.83) " This is sure , and truly concluded . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.84) " But wher this dwellith , " quoth she , " In this wise consider . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.85) The common conceite of mens myndes allowes , that God of all thinges the Ruler , is good hit self . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.86) For when nothing can be imagined better than himself , who can doute that that is the best , whom nothing can better ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.87) For so doth reason shew that God is good , that is won to confesse he is the perfect good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.88) For without such he were , the Prince of all thinges he could not be : (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.89) for so much the rather doth he possess perfection , that he was the first & aboue all : (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.90) for the perfetest doo show them sellves first afore the lesser sorte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.91) and lest our reason should neuer haue end , we must confesse that the greate God is indued with the wholle & perfett good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.92) And we doo saye that true blisse consistes in perfection , (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.93) we must then conclude , that true felicitie is in the greatest god . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.94) " I take it so , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.95) " nether can any thing gayne say it . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.96) " But , I pray the` , " quoth she , " Looke how $proouest {TEXT:proonest} thou that most holyly & without spot , that we say God is the full perfection of greatest good ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.97) " How shall I prooue this , " said I ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.98) " Presume not to think that the father of all $things haue taken this great good with which he is fulfilld eyther-2 of outward cause or naturall , in ymagining a diuers substance of him that hath the obtaynid felicitie . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.99) For if from outward cause thou supposest he has taken , thou mightest than think that better , than he that gaue . (BOETHEL-E2-H,62.100) But most worthely we confess that he excellith all . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.101) Yf Nature haue done any thing in him , & in a diuers sorte , when we speake of God the guyder of all thinges , who can imagine to haue Joynd all these diuersities ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.102) Last of all , that that differs from any thing , that $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be the same that is not hit . Wherfore that is contrary from the greatest good that can not be hit selfe , which were sacrilege to think of God , whom nothing can exceede . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.103) For nothing in Nature can be better than her begynning . Wherfore that was the first of all , in his own substance by a right argument I conclude the greatest good . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.104) " Rightly , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.105) " But it is graunted that the greatest good is blesse . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.106) " So it is , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.107) " Therfore , it needes must be graunted that God is blisse it selfe . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.108) Nether can the foresaid reasons fayle me , (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.109) & by them I finde the consequence true . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.110) " See , " quoth she , " whither this be not more truly prooued , for that twoo greatest goodes diuers in them selves can neuer be . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.111) Therfore goodes that differs , One can not be that the other is , (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.112) for none of them can be perfect , whan in both there lackes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.113) Then that that is not perfecte , is playne can not be the greatest good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.114) By no meanes therfore can they be greatest good that be dyuers . Wherfore we gather that bliss & God be the greatest good , which makes that the greate Diuinity is the greatest bliss . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.115) " Nothing can be concluded , " quoth I , " nor in it self more true , nor by reaason more stable , nor for god wourthyer . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.116) " In these causes , as Geometricians be wont to doo , demonstrations propounded , They bring in somthing which they call {COM:greek_omitted} . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.117) So will I give the` somthing as a breefe gathering . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.118) For since men be blissed by getting of felicitie , & felicitie is Diuinitie , It concludes , that by getting of Diuinity men be blessed . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.119) For as Just men be made by getting Justice , & wyse men by wisdom , So men getting Diuinity , by lyke reason are made lykest to God . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.120) So euery blessed man , is in a kinde a God , (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.121) but in nature one , in participation many may be . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.122) Most fayre & precious is this , which yo=u= call your {COM:greek_omitted} , or your Collection . (BOETHEL-E2-H,63.123) And so much is it the fayrer , that naturall reason it self perswades yo=w= thus to ioyne them . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.124) " What of that ? " said I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.125) " When blissidnes conteynes many thinges in hit , whither be all the partes of this gatherd in one , as by varietie deuided , conioyned , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.126) or is ther som thing els , that fullfills the fulnes of bliss , & to this all the rest is referd . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.127) " I wold thes thinges were explaned , " quoth I , " as by a memoriall . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.128) " Dost thou not think blisfulnes good ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.129) " Yea the greatest , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.130) " This all will graunte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.131) for it is the only sufficiency , the only powre , reuerence , beauty , delyte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.132) What tho ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.133) all these good thinges , sufficiency , powre , all be but lyms of blissidnes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.134) Be all thinges referd to good as to the Top ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.135) " I know , " quoth I , " what thou propoundest to seeke , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.136) but what thou determynest , to heare I desyre . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.137) " Take this division of this sorte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.138) Yf all these were partes of blisse , then should they differ in themsellves . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.139) For this is the nature of partes , that deuided they make a hole body , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.140) & all these thinges we haue shewed be one , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.141) Then they are not partes , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.142) or els bliss should seeme to be made of one parte , which can not be . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.143) " This doute I not , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.144) but that that remayns I attend . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.145) For to the greatest , all the rest of goodes must needes be referd . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.146) For therfore sufficiency is desyrd , that good it is supposd , & powre in like manner : (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.147) so may we gesse of reuerence , honour , & delyte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.148) For the somme of all desyred $things is good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.149) That neyther in hit self nor in his lyke retayns any blisse , that no man ought desyre . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.150) And contrary , those that by nature be not good , if they seme to be , as true good be desyrd . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.151) So is it , the greatest good , by right ought be beleeuid , the grownd work & cause of all desyred . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.152) The cause for which we wish ought , that most we desyre , as yf for helthes sake to ryde we desyre , we seeke not more the styrre of the exercise , than the good effecte of our helth . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.153) When than all thinges be desyrd for greatest good , we desyre not those thinges more than good it self . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.154) And that we graunt , that all thinges be desyrd to obtayne blisse , (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.155) So we conclude she is only to be sought : wherby it playnly appeeres that one only is the substance of that is good & blisfull . (BOETHEL-E2-H,64.156) I see no cause why any man should doute heerof . (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.157) And God we haue showed to be the only & alone good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.158) So may we safely conclude that Godes substance is in that good & none other concluded . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.159) XI . (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.162) PROSE . (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.163) " I graunt , " quoth I : (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.165) " for eche thing with strongest reason linked is . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,65.166) " How muche , woldz thou prise hit , if the tru good thou couldst knowe . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.167) " At how infinite rate , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.168) for so shuld I obtaine to knowe what God wer . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.169) " And this with truest reason I wyl expres , if it be grauntid that afor was sayd . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.170) " Be it so . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.171) " Haue not we showed , that those thinges that be desyrd of many , therfore are not perfect & good , because they differ among themselves , So as where any want ther is of one thing to an other , than can no playne nor resolute good com ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.172) But then is good ther true , when they are gathered in one forme & performance , that what suffisith may haue powre , reverence , honour & delyte , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.173) for without all these be in one , a man hath nought that ought to be esteemd . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.174) " This is euident , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.175) " & no man neede to doubte therof , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.176) for those that , when they disagree , be not good , when they are one , must needes be so . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.177) " But are not all these thinges made good by getting of a true vnity ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.178) " Yes , sure , " said I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.179) " But all that is good , dost thou suppose it good thorow the participating of that is so ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.180) " Yes . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.181) " Then needes it must be that that is only-3 good that is euer one . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.182) for the substance is the same of ech man , whose effectes naturally they haue . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.183) " I can not deny it . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.184) " All that is so , long must last & holde togither , as it is one , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.185) but must needes perish & decay , whan so it leaves to be ; as in beastes we see , when they ingender , & be made of lyfe & body , then it is a Creature . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.186) But when this vnitie makes a separation , then they are deuided , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.187) perish (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.188) & decay . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.189) This body allso when hit remayns in one forme & joyntes of lyms , then humayn shape is seene . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.190) But if distract or partid in twoo they be , then they leave their vnitie which made them be . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.191) In that sorte , all the rest shall be playne to the sercher , that euery thing shall last while it is one , (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.192) but when it leaves that order , it perishith . (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.193) When I haue considered many thinges I find no other thing . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.194) " Ys ther , " quoth I , " any thing that naturally , leaving desyre of lyfe , wischith to com to ruine & an end ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,66.195) " In beastes themsellves that haue som kynde of will to fly or not , I fynde yf men compell them not , they will not cast away their mynde of lasting , and hye them to the way of destruction . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.196) For ech best I finde studys safety to keepe , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.197) & shunnith death & decay . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.198) I can not tell what I may say of herbes , of trees , of rootes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.199) I may doute , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.200) And yet ther is no greate cause , when we see the trees & herbes reviue agayn in their fittist place , that as much as nature will permitt , they may not soone dry & dye . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.201) Som in feldes , som on hills doo spring , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.202) others marish beare , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.203) others stick to stone , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.204) som prosper on barren sand , which if any man pluck vp to sett in other place , they wither . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.205) So Nature giues to ech that him becoms , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.206) & stryves that while they may remayne , they may not end . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.207) What shall I say ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.208) that som we see of them , as hauing turnd their top to earth , draw nourishment to the roote , & by their sap , spredes strength & bark ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.209) What , yea ! (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.210) that that is most soft , as were the marrow , is euer hyd in innermost rynde , without couerd by strength of som wood , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.211) but the vttermost bark against the heauens wether , as sufferer of harme , is set a defendour ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.212) Now how greate is Natures diligence , that all thinges be inlarged by most seede , which all , no man is ignorant , not only for a tyme of remayning perpetually stryues to remayn ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.213) Those thinges that only haue life , doo they not euer by a naturall instinct desyre their own ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.214) Why does lightnes draw vp the flame , & waight , the earth dounward drawes , but that all these agrees in their place & in their own motion ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.215) And that agrees that euer is conserued : as those thinges that discorde doth corrupte . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.216) Those thinges that of Nature be hard , as stones , they stick most fast to their own roote , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.217) & so resist as easely they be not pluckt of . (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.218) The fleeting thinges as ayre & water , these easely be departed , (BOETHEL-E2-H,67.219) but quickly return from whence they were drawen . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.221) But fyre refusith all separation . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.222) We doo not talk now of the volontary motions of the soule of man , but of the naturall intent by nature given . As our meate we take without great study , & breth we drawe in our slomber when we know it not . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.223) For in very beastes , the desyre of contynuance , not of their lyves pleasure , but of their natures begyning procedith . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.224) For oft tymes our will imbracith death , cause compelling , which nature dreades , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.225) & contrarywise desyre of making our lyke , wherby contynuance doth endure , our wills som tymes keeps vs from that nature desyres . Wherfore this loue of our selfes proceedes not of a Creatures notion , but of a naturall intent . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.226) For Godes prouidence hath giuen to all thinges that be made the desyre of remayning , that as long they may , naturally they will byde . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.227) So needes thou neuer doute that such thinges as naturally desyre an abode will shun destruction . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.228) " I confesse it , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.229) " for now I plainly see such thinges as doutfull I found , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.230) that couetes euer to be one , that couetes to remayn : " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.231) " & last this being taken awaye nothing can abyde . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.232) An vnity therfore all desyre . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.233) And one we haue showed that is only good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.234) Since therfore ech thing seekith the good , it is playne , that is only the good that of all is desyred . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.235) " Nothing , " quoth I , " can trulyer be thought . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.236) for eyther all thing shall com to nought , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.237) and as wanting a head , without a guide shall ruyne , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.238) or yf any thing ther be , to which all hastes , that shall be the somme of all best . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.239) " O scholler myne , " quoth she , " I ioye that I haue fixd in thy minde one marke of meane to truth , (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.240) and heerby mayst thou see a little before thou sayedst thou knewest not . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.241) " What is that ? " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.242) " What was of all thing the end . (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.243) For that is it that of all men is most sought , wiche by caus we suppose only good is hit , therfore we confesse that to get is all owre end . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,68.244) IV . (BOETHEL-E2-H,84.247) PROSE . (BOETHEL-E2-H,84.248) " I see , " quoth I , " that vicious men haue no wrong , tho they be said by property of their mynde to beastes be transformd , tho in show they kepe the forme of humayn body . (BOETHEL-E2-H,84.250) And yet I wold not haue , that the cruell & wicked mynde should be sharpnid by the fall of good men . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.251) " Neyther is it , " quoth she , " as in convenyent place I will showe . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.252) And yet if that were taken away from them that they are beleeued to haue , the wickedst payne should be in greatest parte releeuid . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.253) For that that may perchance seeme impossible , hit must needes be that wicked men be vnhappyer , when they haue fulfild their desyres , than if they could not get what they wish . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.254) For if a wretched thing it be to wysh that is nought , it is much more wretched to doo it . Whithout which the desyre of a wretched mynde wold fall . Wherfore when ech man hath his own misery , it must needes be , that by tryple misfortune , they be vexed , whom thou dost see haue a will to doo the worst . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.255) " I graunte it , " quoth I , (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.256) " And yet that quickly they might want this misfortune , I wish them depriued of possibilitie to doo mischeefe . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.257) " They shall want it , " quoth she , " sooner perchaunce than eyther thou woldest , or they themselves think they may . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.258) For neyther is any thing so long in the short mesure of our lyfe , that an immortall mynde may suppose to tarry to long : whose greate hope & hye woork of mischefe oft is destroyde by an vnlookt for & souden end , which settes an end to their misery . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.259) For if iniquitie make men miserable , he must be more wicked that longer lastes : whom most vnhappy I should judge , if their last death might not end their woe . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.260) For if we conclude the truth , of wickednes misfortune , infinite must we suppose that misery that is euerlasting . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.261) Wonderfull thinges , " quoth I , " is this declaration & hard to be graunted , (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.262) but I know them to well agree to such thinges as before haue bene exprest . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.263) " Rightly dost thou think , " quoth she : (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.264) " and who so thinkes a hard conclusion is made , it were reson he should showe , that ther hath bene som falshod in the proposition , or that the tyeng of their argument bootith not for a necessary conclusion . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.265) Or els all the abouesaid graunted , ther is no cause to cauill in the subsequent . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.266) For this that I saye , not only seems not wonderfull , but , by such thinges as are alledged , most necessary . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.267) " What ? " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,85.268) " I saye that happyer be wicked men whan they suffer punishment , than those whom no payne of Justice touchith ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.269) Nether mynd I now to speake of that every man thinkes , That wicked conditions being corrected by revenge & brought to the right way by terrour of their prison , to other men may serue for example to shun theyr faultes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.270) But in other sorte I suppose the wicked vnhappy , tho ther were no cause of correction to make them vnpunished , nor no respecte of ensample . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.271) " What should this other way be ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.272) " Haue we not said afore , that good men be lucky & euill men miserable ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.273) " So it is . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.274) " Yf therfore som goodnes chaunce to misery , is it not much more happyer for him , than if his misery were alone by it self , without any goodnes mixture ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.275) " So it seemes , " quoth I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.276) " But yf to that miserable man that wantes all good thinges , that euill be added to him to be alone , is he not much more to be accompted vnhappy , whose mysfortune is showed him thorow the participation of som good ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.277) " What els ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.278) " Therfore wicked men , when they are punisht , haue som good joyned with it , that is their punishment , which for Justice sake is in it self good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.279) And they whan they want their correction , ther is som thing besides of euill , which is , want of punishment , which deserueably thy self hast confest is the greatest yll Iniquitie can haue . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.280) More vnhappy therfore are wicked folkes , whan they want their punishment , than when they receaue their iust reward . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.281) For greatest iniquitie is committed , when Just men be vexed , & wicked slip from their reward . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.282) " Who can this denye ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.283) " Wherfore , ech man must needes graunte , that all that is good , must needes be iust , & yll that is the contrary . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.284) " These be such thinges needes must follow the aboue concluded . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.285) But I pray the` , " quoth I , " shall there be no soules punishment after the dead body ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.286) " Very greate , " quoth she , " of which som be vsed by bitter paynes , other by a pacifieng Clemency . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.287) But now my mynde is a little of these thinges to dispute . (BOETHEL-E2-H,86.288) For this hitherto we haue don , that thou mightest knowe the vnworthy powre of euill men is none at all . Euin such as thou complaynedst were voyde of punishment , that thou mightest see they neuer want the payne of their wickednes , And that the liberty which thou wisshest should be ended , thou mightest learne not to be long , And so much more vnhappy , if longer , most vnlucky , yf eternall . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.289) And then I sayd that wicked folkes were more miserable , shunning their Just payne , than punisht with their right revenge . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.290) So follows it true with my opinion , That then they are greeuid with sorest punishmentes , whan they are supposd less plagued . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.291) " Whan I consider thy reasons , " said I , " I can suppose nothing more true . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.292) But if I turne me to mans Judgement , who is he , to whom not only these thinges will not seeme to be beleeuid but $scarcely to be herd ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.293) " So it is , " quoth she . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.294) " For they can not , that haue vsed their eyes to darknes , lyft them vp to the light of a cleere trowth , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.295) & lyke they be to such byrdes , whose sight the night dooth cleere , & day darkens . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.296) For while they beholde not the order of thinges , but their own affections , they suppose the liberty and lack of payne , for their faultes , the happiest . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.297) But now looke what the euerlasting light makith . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.298) Yf to best thou doo apply thy mynde , thou shalt neede no iudge to defer thy rewarde , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.299) Thou thy self hast ioyned the` to the Excellency . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.300) Yf thou turn thy indeuors to worsse , beyond thy selfe seeke no revenger . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.301) Thou thy self to worst hast throwen the` , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.302) & lookest to heauen & clayey earth by fittes , when all outward thinges fayles the` , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.303) by thyne owne reason shalt perceaue , the difference between Sky & Claye . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.304) But the vulgar cares not for this . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.305) What tho ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.306) Shall we speake of such thinges now as shewes men most lyke beastes ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.307) What yf a man losing his sight hath forgotten that euer he had it , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.308) shall he suppose he lackes nothing of a mans perfection ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.309) Shall we suppose these men , tho they see , to be blynde ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.310) They will not leave so , (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.311) But will with certain grownd of reson know , that they are more vnhappy that do wrong , than those that suffer it ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.312) " I wold fayne know these reasons , " said I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.313) " Thou dost not deny , a wicked man is wourthy of all payne ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.314) " I deny it not . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.315) " You think to , they are vnhappy that diuers wayes are wicked . (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.316) Such as are worthy punishment , therfore no doute are miserable ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,87.317) " It agreeith well . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.318) " Yf therfore thou satest as a Judge , on whom woldst thou inflict the payne ? eyther-4 on him that made or suffred the wrong ? " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.319) " I doute not but that I wold satisfy the sufferer by the punishment of the Actor . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.320) " Then wretcheder is the maker , than the Receauour . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.321) " It is reason . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.322) " For this & many other causes all hangyng on one roote , hit appeers that synne of his owne nature , makes men wretched , And that injury is not the receauers misery but the giuers . (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.323) But Orators doo otherwise . (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.324) They go about to mooue commiseration of the iudges for them that haue commytted som greate & cruell thing , when rather a juster commiseration ought to be had of such as be not brought by irefull accusers , but by such as themselves beemones & takes compassion of , as tho they wold bring the sick to the phisician , & cut of the disease by the false punishment . By which eyther the endeuour of the defendors should coole , or if it should proffitt them , must be turned into the forme of the accusation . (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.325) But wicked men , yf they see any but a small clift wher vertue is to be seene , where wicked vice they may put of , by paynes cruelty , vnder coulour of recompensing vertue , will not call this cruelty , (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.326) but will refuse their defendors labour , & giue themselves wholly to the accusers & Judges . (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.327) So as wise men haue no place left them for hate . (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.328) For who but a very foole will malice a good man ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.329) And who but he that lackes reson , will not hate the yll ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.330) For , as the bodyes sicknes , so is vice the myndes disease : (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.331) euin as we suppose that sick men deserve not hate but commiseration , so ought they not be persecuted but pitied whose mynde than all sicknes bytterer , Iniquitie hath besieged . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,88.332) VI . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.335) PROSE . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.336) " So it is , " said I ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.338) " but since thy office it is to vnfold the cause of hidden maters , & expresse reasons hid vnder shade , I besech the` , to looke on this , (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.339) & for that this miracle doth most vexe me , teache it me . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.340) Then she , smyling a little : (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.341) " You call me to a matter that all men chefely seek , to whom scacely suffisith to taste alone . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.342) For it is such a mater that one dout cut of , inumerable others as Hydras heades increase ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.343) nether euer will ther be an end , vnles a lyuely fyre of the mynde doo bynde it . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.344) For in this mater , we inquire of the purenes of Prouidence , of the succession of Chaunce , of hapning Luckes , of knowledge & predestination of God , & of our free will , which of how greate burden all these be , thy self canst waye . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.345) But because this is som portion of thy medecin to know these thinges , tho we be wrapt in a strayte lymite of tyme , yet we will stryue somwhat to determyne . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.346) For if thou delyte in a musicall song , thou must differ a little thy delyte , while I doo tune in order the Reasons knyt togither . " (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.347) " As please yo=u= , " said I . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.348) Then as begynning of an other theme , thus she disputed : (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.350) " The creation of all thinges , & the disposing of mutable Natures , & what euer by any meane is mooued , getes the cause , order , & forme of Godes mynde , stabilitie . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.351) And this sett in the top of her Purenes , appoyntes a sondry manner for ech action : which order , when it is beheld in the very cleerenes of diuine vnderstanding , is named Prouidence . (BOETHEL-E2-H,91.352) But when it is referd to those thinges that hit moouith & disposith , of the Auncientes it is called Desteny : which easely shall appeer to be divers , yf a mans mynde will see the efficacy of both . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.353) For Prouidence is Godes pleasure , appoynted by him that all rulith & all diposith . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.354) But Desteny is the disposing of causes joynd to remoouing causes , by the which Prouidence knittith all thinges by her orders . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.355) For Prouidence includith all , whither they be diuers or infinite , (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.356) but Desteny deuideth euery thing according to her motion , distributing it to place , to forme , & tyme : that this deuiding of temporall order joyned to the diuine pleasure may be made Prouidence , (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.357) But that joyning , being seuerd & deuided into tymes , that is Fate . Which tho they be sondry , yet they depend one of an other . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.358) For fatall order proceedith of Prouidence purenes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.359) For as a craftes man , conceauing in his mynde the forme of a woork , causith him to end , & that which he hath plainly & presently foreseene , he ordrith by tymes rule : so God by his Prouidence singularly & stable disposith all thinges to be don . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.360) But by desteny so devided , aboundantly & in his due season workes it . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.361) Whither Desteny be exercised by familiar Spirites that serues for Godes Providence , or whither the fatall work be knytt by the soule alone , or Nature seruing in parte therto , or celestiall courses of the heavens , or by Angelicall powers , or by sondry industry of Spirites , or by som of these , or by all : This is most playne , that the forme of all thinges vnmoueable & simple is Prouidence . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.362) But Desteny is of such thinges as the Diuine Cleerenes disposith to be don , (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.363) & makith the mooving lynk & orderly Rule . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.364) So followes it , that all that subiect be to fate , be vnder Rule of Prouidence , vnder whom Fate it self down layes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.365) But som thinges there are by Prouidence appoynted that doo exceede Fates force . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.366) Those thinges they be which fixed stably , next to diuinitie , exceede the Nature of Fates mutabilitie . (BOETHEL-E2-H,92.367) For as of all Circles the inmost that turnes themselves about one rounde , coms neerest to the purenes of the midst , and as a steddy stay of all that rolles about , doth circuite the same , but the vttmost by wyder bredth rolled , the more hit goes from the vndeuided midst of the poynte , so much the more hit is spred by larger spaces , but whatsoeuer drawith neere & accompanith the midst , & with his purenes is ruled , ceassith to be stopt or ouerrun : with lyke reason , that furdest goes from the first intent , is wrapt in straighter knotes of Fate . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.368) And so much the freer is any man from the same , as neerest he doth drawe to the orderers wheele . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.369) And yf he stick to the euerduring eternall mynde , wanting change , he goith aboue Destenyes necessitie . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.370) For as Reason is to vnderstanding , & that that is made , to that that is , And as tyme to Eternity , & Circle is to the middest poynte : So is the order of fate changeable , compared to the stable purenes of Prouidence . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.371) For desteny moouith heauen & skye , (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.372) tempers the elementes among themselves , (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.373) & turnes them thorow diuers changes : (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.374) & such thinges as be bred & dye , renewes such by lyke generation of frutes & seedes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.375) This knittes actions , fortunes of men by an indissoluble lynk of causes , which since they com all from the begynning of an vnchanging Prouidence , it must needes be that otherwise than so , they can not change . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.376) For so thinges be well ordred , yf the euerlasting purenes of Godes mynde doth prescribe an vnturning order of causes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.377) But this Rule byndith in , thinges mutable & rashly fleeting , by his owne steddynes . Wherby altho to yo=u= that can not consider the order of thinges they seeme confuse , and rombled togither , yet he that is cause of all good , directes all thing to hit . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.378) For ther is no man how wicked soeuer , that for yll-sake , will doo ought so . Whom tho as I haue told you afore , in seeking good , an yll errour hath turnd , yet the order that coms from the roote of all good , turns no man from his begynning . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.379) But what , thou wilt saye , can be a greater confusion or a woorsse , than that aduersitie & prosperitie happens to good men , & alyke to euill doth hap , both wisht and hated ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.380) Doo men lyve of such integritie of mynde , that it must needes be that they be wicked or good , that be supposed so ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.381) For in this we see diuers judgementes of men vary , (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.382) whom som thinkes worthy rewarde , other suppose deserue punishment . (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.383) But let vs graunte that one man may discerne the good & yll men : (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.384) Can he looke vpon the inward temper of the mynde , as well as of the body ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,93.385) The wonder is not vnlyke to him that knowes not , why to men of wholle bodyes , somtymes to these sweet thinges please , som other delyte in sowre : why sick men som be helpt by lenitiues , som other cured by corrosiues . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.386) But this a phisician that knowes the meane of his helth & sicknes togither with his temper , nothing wonders at . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.387) What other thing is the myndes helth , than sincerity ? What the sicknes , but vice ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.388) Who other is eyther keeper of good , or ouerthrower of yll , than the directour and phisician of our mynde , God himself ? Who when he lookes out of the glasse of his hye prouidence , knowith what for ech man is best . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.389) And that he knowes is best , that he gyues him . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.390) And this is the greate miracle of destenyes order , when it is treated by a skyllfull person , at which the ignorant woonder . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.391) And that I may somwhat touche what mans Reason may comprehend of Godes depth , in that mater that thou supposest to be most just , & keeps greatest equalitie , it seemes all be different from him that knowith what Prouidence is . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.392) And as our frend Lucan sayde , the wynners cause pleased God , the woonne Cato . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.393) For in this world what so thou seest be done beyond hope , is the rightest order of all , (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.394) And peruers is the confusion of opinion her self . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.395) But if a man haue so much manner , that he will agree both-2 of diuine judgement & humayne , yet is he of his myndes strength so weake , as if any aduersitie hap him , he will leave to prise ynnocency , by whom he could not keepe fortune . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.396) For the wise giuer sparyth him whom he knowes aduersity will him payre , so as he will not suffer him labour in payne , (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.397) for ought behooues him not . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.398) An other man ther is vniuersally vertuous , holy , & next to God . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.399) This man the diuine Prouidence judgith a wicked thing with aduersitie to afflict , so that he will not suffer him be vext with bodely disease . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.400) For as an excellenter than my self sayde : ' A good man , his vertues doo inhabite him . ' (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.401) So it concludes , that good men haue all thinges to rule , that abounding iniquitie might be ruyned . (BOETHEL-E2-H,94.402) To other men he distributes certain mixtures , according to the qualitie of the mynd . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.403) Som men he stingith lest they should ouerflow into greate felicity . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.404) Others he tosses with aduersitie , that he may establish their myndes vertue , by patience , vse , & exercyse . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.405) Others som to much feare , that beare they might ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.406) som other to much despise that carry they can not . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.407) These men he leades by woe to know themselves . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.408) Som other deserue an honorable name with price of glorious death . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.409) Som other haue shewed a sample to the rest , vnuincible of payne : (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.410) And so doo shew to wicked men how vnwon vertue is . Which how rightly & in order & for their good to whom it hapt they haue bene don , ther is no doute . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.411) For euin that eyther sorowfull or desyred haps to the wicked folkes , proceedes of like cause . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.412) And as for the wicked , no man wonders , for thinking them worthy all yll : whose punishment both feares other from faultes , & breedes their amendement on whom it is imposd : (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.413) Prosperous thinges serue for greate argument that they be good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.414) But what ought men iudge of such felicitie ? when they see them the servantes of the wicked . In which mater somtyme they seeme to haue dispensation , for that som mans nature is so headstrong & rash , that neede of necessities cause may make him fall into a mischeefe , whom the prouiding of monny got , might serue for remedy . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.415) But when he lookes , his fyled conscience with faulte , & with himself disputing of his fortune , perchance fearith that the losse should be sorowfull , of that the vse was delytefull . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.416) He will change therfore his condition , (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.417) and whyle his luck feares to lose it , he will leave his wickednes . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.418) Vnworthy gotten felicitie throwes downe som men to deseruid ruine ; (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.419) som men haue leave to punish , that they might invre good men , & punish the yll . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.420) For as no league ther is between the wicked & good , so can not the euill among them selves agree . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.421) What els , when ech man disagrees , their vices being sondry , & often doo such thinges , which they discerne they ought not doo , after don they be ? (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.422) So haps it oft , that Godes providence wourkith a miracle , that euill men make yll men good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.423) For when they see that they suffer harm themselves by euill men , abhorring such actors , retourne to vertues frute , while they study to be vnlyke such as they hate . (BOETHEL-E2-H,95.424) For it is Godes only powre , to make of euill good , when vsing them as they ought , drawes from them som effect of good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.425) For order keeps ech thing , so as what so doth leave his assigned way of order , the self same tho it hap to an other , falles in rule , lest in Providences kingdom , Rashnes should prevayle . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.426) ' Hard for me it is these thinges that touche God , as all the rest , describe . ' (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.427) For neyther doth it becom man to comprehend all shapes of his woorkes , or by tongue or wit expresse . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.428) Only this may suffise , that we perceaue that God the maker of all Nature , disposith so of all as directes it to the good . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.429) And while he hyes to kepe such thinges in order as he made , he dryves all euill out of the boundes of his kingdom , by the order of a fatall necessitie . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.430) So it followes , that such thinges as we beleeue the Earth to haue plenty , if we looke vpon the direction of Providence , we shall see ther is no yll at all . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.431) But now I see the` burdned with waight of question , & wearyed with length of reasoning , to expecte the sweetness of som verse . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.432) Take therfore a draught wherby refresht thou mayst trye strong furder to go . (BOETHEL-E2-H,96.433)