{COM:insert_helsinki_sample_1} M. B. Nay then I see you are awrie , if you denie these things , and say they be but illusions . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.3) They haue bene prooued , and prooued againe , euen by the manifold confessions of the witches themselves . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.4) I am out of all doubt in these , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.5) and could in manie particulars lay open what hath fallen out . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.6) I did dwell in a village within these five years , where there was a man of good wealth , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.7) and suddainlie within ten daies space , he had three kine $die {TEXT:died} , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.8) his gelding worth ten pounds fell lame , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.9) he was himself taken with a gret pain in his back , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.10) & a child of seue~ years old died . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.11) He sent to the woman at R. H. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.12) and she said he was plagued by a witch , adding moreouer , that there were three women witches in that towne , and one man witch : willing him to look to whom he most suspected : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.13) he suspected one old woman , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.14) and caused her to be caried before a Iustice of the Peace and examined : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.15) with much a doe at the last shee confessed all : Which was this in effect : that she had three spirits : one like a cat , which she called Lightfoot , another like a Toad , which she called Lunch , the third like a Weasill , which she called Makeshift . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.16) This Lightfoot , she said , one mother Barlie of W. solde her aboue fifteene yeares agoe , for an ouen cake (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.17) and told her the Cat would doe her good seruice , if she woulde , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.18) she might send her of her errand : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.19) this Cat was with her but a while , but the Weasill and the Toad came and offered their seruice : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.20) The Cat would kill kine , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.21) the Weasil would kill horses , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.22) the Toade would plague men in their bodies . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.23) She sent them all three as she confessed against this man : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.24) She was committed to the prison , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.25) and there shee died before the Assises . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.26) I could tell you of manie such : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.27) I had no minde to dwell in that place any longer . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.28) Dan. You mistake me , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.29) I do not meane that the things are not , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1R.30) but my meaning is , that the deuill by such thinges both beguyle and seduce ignorant men , and lead them into errours and grieuous sinnes : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.31) And let us examine euerie parcell of that which you set down in your speach , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.32) and you shall see no lesse . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.33) M. B. That is it which I would faine see : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.34) You confesse they haue spirits , some one , some more , and in such likenesses : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.35) what errour be the people led into by that ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.36) Dan. First , co~sider this that ther be multituds & armies of deuils , as we see in the gospel , y=t= manie deuils wer entred into one man , & Christ saying , What is thy name ? answer is made , Legion , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.37) for we are manie . Mark 5 . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.38) Now , although the deuils be manie , yet they be all caried with such hatred against God , with such desire to haue him dishonored and blasphemed , and burne with such bloudy malice and crueltie against men , that they bend their studie all together , one helping and furthering another what they can in their worke : in so much that the Scripture doth speake of them , as if they were but one deuill : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.39) for S. Peter sayth , Your aduersarie the deuill goeth about like a roring lion seeking whom he may devour . 1 Pet. 5. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.40) And in the Reuelation chapter 12. all the deuils make that great red dragon : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.41) And our Sauiour doth shewe how close they ioyne in one , when he saith , If Satan be deuided against Satan , or if Satan cast foorth Satan , how shall his kingdom endure Matth. 12 . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.42) now then , whether the witch deale , as shee supposeth , with one spirit , or with manie , it commeth all to one effect , thus farre , that one dealeth not alone , but with the helpe of others . So that he or she that hath familiaritie with one deuill , it is as much as if it wer with an hundreth . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.43) Moreouer , the deuils be spirits , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.44) they haue no bodily shape or likenesse (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.45) but yet can make an apparance of a shape , as appeareth by the inchanters before Pharao , when their rods were turned into serpents in shew . Exod. 7. And then one deuill can seem to be foure or fiue , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.47) and foure or fiue can seeme to be one : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.48) It is therefore but the craft of Satan , to make shewe of more or lesse . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C1V.49) M. B. Do you not thinke then , that where the more deuils be , there is the greater power of Satan ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.51) Dan. Yes , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.52) but it can not be discerned be his appearing to the witch in shew of more or lesse : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.53) For one can seeme ten vnto her , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.54) and ten can seeme one . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.55) M. B. Well , I doe not mislike al this , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.56) I pray you proceed forward . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.57) Dan. Then further marke well howe the holi Scriptures doe paint out the deuils to bee mightie terrible spirits , full of power , rage , and crueltie , compared to a great red dragon , Reuel. 12 , to a greedie or hungrie lion , that roreth after the pray , 1. Pet. 5. And called by S. Paul Principalities , and Powers , the Rulers of the darknesse of this world : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.58) now , when they take vpon them the shapes of such paltrie vermine , as Cats , Mise , Toads , and Weasils , it is euen of subtiltie to couer and hide his mightie tyrannie , and power which he exerciseth ouer the heartes of the wicked . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.59) It is most necessarie for vs all to know , what strong aduersaries we haue to encounter withall , that we may fly vnto the Lord God , and seek to bee armed with his power against them . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.60) M. B. Well , what will you inferre vpon this ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.61) I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} deny but that the scriptures doe paint out the deuils to be mightie terrible spirits , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.62) and so they may be , although they appeare but like Cats or weasils . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.63) Dan. I doe not say they be not mightie and terrible because they appeare in such shapes , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.64) but I affirme , that their appearing so , is to couer and hide their mightinesse and effectuall working , which they exercise in the darke harts of men . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2R.65) And marke well I pray you , the power of deuils is in the hearts of men , as to harden the heart , to blinde the eies of the mind , and from the lustes and concupiscences which are in them , to inflame them vnto wrath , malice , enuy , and cruell murthers : to puffe them vp in pride , arrogancy and vaine glory : to entice them vnto wantonnesse , and whordomes , and all vncleannesse . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.66) And about these things they worke continually , and with such efficacy , that without the power of the glorious passion and resurrection of our Lord Iesus Christ , which we haue by faith , they $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be withstood , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.67) and they will seeme to be but meane fellowes , busied about making drink that it shall not work in the fat , in keeping cheese from running , and butter from comming , in killing hennes or hogges , or making men lame . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.68) M. B. May they not doe both the one and the other ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.69) Dan. Yea , but this is my meaning , that while they be occupied about the greatest things , as in stirring vp Tyrants and wicked men to persecute , to reproch and blaspheme the Gospell , which pulleth them downe , to set diuision and warres between kingdomes and kings , hatred and discord between man and wife , and contention betweene brethren : yea , to set all in a broyle and confusion : they would seeme to be busied about trifles , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.70) and about these they busie mens mindes , that they may not obserue and take heed of them in those other . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.71) M. B. I perceiue your meaning , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.72) but yet I doe not conceiue whereunto you chiefly tend : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.73) for do not they which looke vpon these harmes done by witches , confesse that the deuill doth all those things which you mention ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.74) Dan. The ignorant sort , which are so terrified by witches , do in ways after a sort , confesse so much as you say , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.75) but when it commeth to the matter , they deny it in effect . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.76) For mark this , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.77) the deuils continualie compasse the soule of man about , to shoot it full of their fierie dartes . Ephes. 6. euen to wound it to death with all wicked sinnes . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.78) The deuill goeth about like a roring lion , seeking whome hee may deuour . 1. Pet. 5. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C2V.79) And they by this craft which they vse by means of the witches , make the blind people imagin that they neuer come nigh them , but when the witches are angrie and doe send them , and that they are easilie driuen away when they do come , as by burning some quick thing , as henne , or hogge , or by beating and drawing bloud vpon the witch . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.80) Such people as can thus driue him away , or by thrusting a spitte red hot into their creame , are farre from knowing the spirituall battel , which we are to warre vnder the banner of Christ against the deuill , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.81) much lesse doe they know how to put on as S. Paule willeth the whole armour of God , to resist and ouercome him . Ephes. 6. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.82) He may deale with their soules euen as he listeth , when they take him not present but vpon such sending , and where such hurt doth follow in their bodies or goods . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.83) M. B. I doe not denie , but that the deuils seeke chiefly for to destroy the soules of men . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.84) But as I tak it you confesse , that they being sent by the witches , doe also those bodilie harmes : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.85) and as yet I see no reason why they may not seeke remedie against such harmes , and driue him away by anie good meanes : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.86) doth the worde of God forbid vs to vse meanes ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.87) If I be sicke , shall I not take physicke ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.88) If I be thirstie , shall I not drinke ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.89) Indeed I am of your minde , though I did neuer marke so much before , that the deuill dealeth subtillie in this , that by dealing in such small matters , he couereth himselfe in the greater , as though he came not neere , nor did not medle but in such maner : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.90) But here standeth the case , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.91) I resist him in those greater , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.92) may I not also vse those helpes which driue him away in the lesser : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.93) I will if I can driue him away in all things . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.94) Dan. How the deuils are sent by the witches , and how they doe those bodily harmes , wee are not yet come vnto , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.95) and there lie two of the chiefe subtilties of the deuill in them , by which he deceiueth the multitude . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.96) But by occasion we are fallen into the mention of remedie to driue them away . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.97) Because I say such as thus driue him away , know not the spirituall battell , much lesse how to put on the whol armour of God to ouercome the deuil : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3R.98) Order doth require that we speak first of his sending , and then of those bodilie harmes which he doth , & afterward of these meanes which are vsed to repell him . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.99) Let vs therefore step one step backe againe , if you agree to the rest which I haue spoken . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.100) M. B. With a good will : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.101) for so we shall omit no part . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.102) But I thought we had fullie agreed in this , that the witches do send their spirits , and doe manie harmes both-1 vnto men and beasts : because we haue it confirmed by daylie experience : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.103) and vnlesse you will denie that which is manifest , I doubt not but we shall accorde in these . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.104) Dan. I say the witches do send their spirits . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.105) M. B. What shal we need then to stand vpon that point in which we are agreed ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.106) Dan. Yes ; (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.107) though we agree that they send them , yet we may dissent in diuers thinges about this sending . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.108) As first , tell me , whether doe you thinke that the witch or the Deuill is the seruaunt , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.109) which of them commaundeth , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.110) and which obeyeth ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.111) M. B. How can I tell that ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.112) It is thought hee becommeth her seruaunt , and where she is displeased , and would be reuenged , she hyreth him for to doe it . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.113) The witches the~selues haue confessed thus much : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.114) and for my part , I think no man can disprooue it . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.115) Dan. They that doe the will of God are the children and seruants of God . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.116) And they which fulfill the lustes of the deuill , and obey him , are his children & his seruauntes , Ioh. 8. vers. 44. Act. 13. vers. Are they not ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.117) M. B. I graunt all this ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.118) Dan. The deuilles are the rulers of the darknesse of this world . Ephes. 6. ver. 12. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.119) M. B. The text is plaine . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.120) Dan. The darknesse of this world , is not meant of the darknesse of the night , which is but the shadow of the earth , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.121) but it is the spiritual darknes , which consisteth in the ignoraunce of God , in infidelitie , and in sinne . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.122) M. B. I am of your mind in this also . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C3V.123) Dan. And doe you not thinke then that the deuill hath his throne , his dominion and kingdom in the hearts of ignorant blind infidels ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.125) M. B. I must needs thinke he hath , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.126) the word of God doth force me thereunto : seeing he is the Prince of darknesse . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.127) Dan. And is there anie greater infidelitie and darknesse in anie , than in witches , coniurers , and such as haue familiaritie with deuils ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.128) M. B. I tak it they be the depest ouerwhelmed in darknesse and infidelitie of all other . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.129) Dan. Lay all these thinges together which you confesse , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.130) and see whether it doth follow vpon the same , that the witch is the vassall of the deuill , and not he her seruaunt ; (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.131) he is Lord (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.132) and commaundeth , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.133) and she is his drudge (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.134) and obeyeth . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.135) M. B. Yea , although he be Lord , yet he is content to serue her turne , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.136) and the witches confesse , they call them forth and send them : and that they hire them to hurt such in their bodies , and in their cattell , as they bee displeased withall . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.137) Dan. I am sorie you are so farre awrie , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.138) it is pitie any man should be in such errour , especiallie a man that hath learning , and should teach others knowledge . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.139) M. B. Nay , I may returne this vpon you , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.140) for if you will deny this , it is but a follie to reason any further : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.141) I will neuer be driuen from that which I knowe : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.142) There was one olde mother W. of great T. which had a spirite like a {TEXT:a_a} Weasill : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.143) she was offended highlie with one H. M. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.144) home she went , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.145) and called forth her spirite , which lay in a pot of woll vnder her bed , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.146) she willed him to goe plague the man : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.147) he required what she would giue him , and he would kill H. M. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.148) She said she would giue him a cocke , which shee did , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.149) and he went , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.150) and the man fell sicke with a great paine in his bellie , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.151) languished (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.152) and died : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4R.153) the witch was arraigned , condemned , and hanged , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.154) and did confesse all this . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.155) Dan. I told you before that I do not deny these things , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.156) but you are deceiued about the doing : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.157) you marke not the cunning sleights of the deuill : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.158) Tel me , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.159) is not this the truth which S. Peter speaketh , that the deuill goeth about like a roaring lion , seeking whom he may deuoure . 1. Pet. 5. (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.160) M. B. What then ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.161) Dan. What then ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.162) can you be so simple as to imagine that the deuill lieth in a pot of wooll , soft and warme , and stirreth not , but when he is hired and sent ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.163) The deuils conspire together in their worke , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.164) they bestirre them , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.165) and neuer take rest night nor day : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.166) they are neuer wearie , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.167) they be not a colde , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.168) they care not for lying soft : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.169) These be fooleries by which hee deceiueth the witches , and bewitcheth the mindes of many ignorant people : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.170) And whereas you say he is hired , it is but deceit : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.171) for , let me aske you two or three questions or more if need be . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.172) M. B. What be your questions ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.173) Dan. You say the witch commeth home angrie , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.174) who hath kindled this wrath in her heart but the deuill ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.175) Who inflameth her mind with malice , to be reuenged , and to doe mischiefe but the deuill ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.176) doth not he rule in her heart ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.177) Tell me what you thinke of this ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.178) M. B. I muste needes confesse hee stirreth her vp to wrath and malice . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.179) Dan. Then he lieth not at home in his pot of wool : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.180) nor he is not hyred to this : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.181) hitherto she is his drudge , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.182) and obeyeth him , and not he her , being led by his suggestion . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.183) Then tell me , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.184) is not the deuill like a red fierie dragon , Reuel. 12. burning in malice against God , and with all bloodie and cruell hatred that may be against men ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.185) And is he not farre readier vnto all mischiefe , than anie man or woman ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.186) M. B. The deuill is more fierce than any man or woman ; (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.187) none can deny this . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,C4V.188) Dan. If none can deny this , and he be the worker of the wrath and malice in the heart of the witch ; then what needeth he to be hyred ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.190) he stirreth her vp , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.191) and if he would , he could turn her mind from sending him , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.192) and must he be hyred ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.193) doth he care for a cock or a chicken ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.194) Is he hungry (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.195) or needeth he somewhat to eat ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.196) M. B. Nay , but it is thought he taketh those thinges to witnesse against the witch that she is his . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.197) Dan. Let it bee , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.198) there were somewhat in that which you speake , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.199) yet he hath a farre deeper reach , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.200) for the trueth is , hee woulde , and doeth perswade the blind people , that he medleth litle , but when he is euen hyred and sent , and that then his medling is but in such matters : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.201) And hereupon all is on a broyle against old women , which can any wayes be suspected to be witches , as if they were the very plagues of the world , and as if all would be well , and safe from such harmes , if they were rooted out , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.202) and thus they fall a rooting out without all care : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.203) for it is thought that the witch which hath her spirits , is euen lyke a man which hath curst dogges , which he may set vpon other mens cattell , which yet in the nature of dogs , would neuer styre but when they are bidden : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.204) and so the harmes do come from the man which owneth those dogs . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.205) They think that the country might be ryd of such spirits , if there were none to hoister them , or to set them a worke . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.206) They imagine that they and their cattell should then go safe . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.207) Alas poore creatures , how they be deluded ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.208) how litle do they vnderstand the high prouidence of almighty God which is ouer all ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.209) M. B. Doe you thinke then that witches ought not to be rooted out ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.210) or doe you thinke it were not much safety to the country from harmes , if it could be rid of them ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.211) Dan. For the rooting out of witches , the Scripture is plaine . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.212) Thou shalt not suffer a witch to liue : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.213) but we are not yet come to that poynt . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1R.214) But whether they be to be rooted out that men may be safe from harmes , as the people in fury and blindnesse imagine , that is next . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.215) M. B. Men feele the smart and the harmes which they doe , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.216) and it is no maruell , though {COM:sic} they be earnest to haue them rooted out , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.217) and a good riddance it were if the whole land could be set free from them . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.218) Sam. Trulie M. B. I am of your mind , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.219) I wold they wer all hanged vp one against another : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.220) we should not I hope stand in such fear of their spirits . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.221) But I interrupt you too . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.222) The wife . They that would not haue them hanged or burnt , I would they might euen witch them vnto hell . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.223) If I had but one fagot in the world , I would carry it a myle vpon my shoulders to burne a witch . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.224) Dan. Well good woman , spare your fagot a while , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.225) and ease your shoulders , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.226) and let vs reason the matter a little further ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.227) I pray you let me aske you this question , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.228) doth the witch or the deuill the harme vnto men and cattell ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.229) M. B. Why , the deuill doth it at their sending though I confesse it must needs be as you said , that the deuil worketh al in the mind of the witch , & moueth her to send him . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.230) Dan. The deuill hath a kingdome , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.231) but it is in darkenesse and corruption of sinne . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.232) He hath no right nor power ouer Gods creatures , no not so much as to kill one flye , or to take one eare of corne out of anie mans barne , vnlesse power be giuen him . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.233) You know when Christ cast the deuils out of the man possessed , they aske leaue for to goe into the heard of swine . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.234) Then tell me , who giueth the deuill this power then , when the witch sendeth him , to kill or to lame man or beast ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.235) doth the witch giue it him ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.236) Do you think he had power to doe harme , but no mind till she mooued him ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.237) Or doe you take it that her sending giueth him power , which he had not ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.238) M. B. It is a question indeed worth the asking : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.239) For doubtlesse , the deuill hath not power vntill it be giuen him , to touch any creature , to hurt , or to destroy the body , but onely to tempt and to lead into sin : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D1V.240) I am also sure that the witch $can $not {TEXT:cannot} giue him power , but onlie God aboue . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.241) Dan. Lay these two together then , that the deuill only hurtheth , and that none can giue him power , neither man nor woman , but only God , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.242) and tell me whether the people be not wonderfully carried away in a rage . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.243) For , when as they should consider , that the deuill is the Lordes executioner : And then finding that he hath any power giuen him to molest , to hurt and vexe them in their bodies or goods , to know certainly it commeth from the Lord , and then gather from thence as the trueth is that the Lord is displeased with them for their offences . And so seeke vnto him , humbly crauing pardon and deliuerance from this enemy , seeking to be armed with the mighty power of faith , to cast him foorth , and to resist him , as the Lord willeth , 1. Pet. 5 (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.244) Here is no such matter , no looking so high among the people , but running deeper into errour , and into sinne , as if the witches did it , and that it commeth from their anger and not from their own sinnes and infidelity , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.245) here is no repentance , no humbling themselues by fasting and prayer , but running for help vnto deuilles , vsing meanes which those deuils by the cunning men & women appoint , searching and clawing , thirsting often after guiltles blood as raging against those whome they imagine to be witches , which many times are not , because they imagine , that if there were no witches , ther should be no such plagues . As if they had no foule sinnes nor vnbeleefe , or that there remayned not a iust reuenging God to punish , or as if he had not the deuils still the executioners of his wrath . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.246) M. B. Truly your wordes doe make me affrayd : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.247) for I am euen-2 guiltie of those thinges my selfe , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.248) if they be so grieuous , as you set them out : and {COM:sic} by Gods grace I wil consider better of the matter : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.249) for I haue counselled manie to seek vnto those cunning folkes , and to vse such helpe as they prescribe , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.250) and you say , it is to seeke help at deuils . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.251) To see that point we shal come anon : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2R.252) now I wold be resolued about somewhat in your last speach ; as namely , doe you cleare the witches , because God , and not they , giueth the deuil power , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.253) and doe you thinke that the deuils should kill men and their cattell , if they were not sent by witches ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.254) Should the harmes still follow , if there were no witches ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.255) Dan. That I say (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.256) God alone , and not the witches , giueth power vnto the deuils to plague and torment : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.257) it is so euident as that I suppose a man shall hardlie meete with anie man so grosse but will confesse it . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.258) But this doeth not cleare the witches at all ; (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.259) for their sinne is in dealing with deuils , and that they imagine that their Spirits do those harmes , requested and hyred by them : when as indeede the deuill , where he hath power giuen him to hurt , or where he knoweth death or grieuous diseases will follow either-4 in man or beast , setteth the witch in a rage , and moueth her to send him . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.260) Concerning your other question , I say , we shall finde by the Scriptures , that if there were no witches at all , yet men should be plagued by the deuils in their bodies and goods . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.261) For touching the godly , the Lord doth vse Satan to afflict them in their bodies and in their goodes , for to trie their faith and patience : as the example of holie Iob doeth testifie in ample manner . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.262) It were vile follie and brutish to affirme , that witches did set on the deuils to kill his children , and to plague his bodie . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.263) And I hold it no smal follie , for anie man to think that the Lord doeth not nowe scourge his children , at the least some of them , for their good , by the deuill . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.264) There is no doubt , but the deuil hauing power giuen him to afflict , vseth all the craft hee can , and will seek to be sent by the witch , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.265) and so hee will make it knowne , because it may seeme to bee not from God , but from the anger of a poore woman . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.266) And now touching the wicked , which prouoke God by their wicked sinnes and vnbeleefe , may we not read in the scriptures that an euill spirite was sent of God vnto king Saul , which did haunte and vexe him ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.267) Was this spirit sent by a witch ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D2V.268) Or the deuils in the Gospell , which entred into the hearde of swine and drowned them ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.269) Did the Lord giue them power , and send them , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.270) and shall we be so sottish as to thinke , that hee sendeth not the deuill now against vngodly men , to plague and to betray them ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.271) As I said before , here is the deepe craft of Satan , that he will couet to bee sent by witches , whereas indeed God hath sent him , seeing none can sende him but God . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.272) Againe , we must consider that there bee naturall causes in the bodies of men and beastes of grieuous tormentes and diseases , yea euen causes of death . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.273) Nowe , they $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be so secrete , but the deuill knoweth them , and euen when they are like to take effect . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.274) Then doth he plie it with the witch , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.275) setteth her in a furie , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.276) she sendeth him , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.277) euen vpon this sending the man or the beast suddainlie and strangely are tormented , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.278) fall lame , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.279) or die . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.280) Then the witch is suspected , examined , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.281) and confesseth that she killed such a man , or such a mans cattell , or made them lame . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.282) Here the people are set in a wonderfull maze and astonishment , as if witches could plague men in their wrath by sending their spirits , because they confesse they did it , whe~ their spirits doe lie and had no power , but the tormentes cam by naturall causes . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.283) And to driue the people into a deeper madnes in this , & to mak them beleeue , that strange and suddaine torments and languishing diseases come by witches , he hath his other sort of witches , the cunning men and women , which tell euen vpon his worde , which you know is to be trusted , that they be bewitched , that they bee haunted with fayries , and that ther be thus many witches therabout , in euerie town some . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.284) M. B. That is most true no doubt , which you speake , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.285) I doe not for my part knowe how to gainsay any one point thereof . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3R.286) Only I wonder at the craftinesse of the deuils in these things , that where they haue power graunted vnto them to hurt , they will be sent by the witches , as if they did it hired by them , and that you say where harmes doe follow men vpon naturall causes , that they can make shew as though they did them . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.287) But are you of this mind , that there should be as manie or all those harmes done by deuilles , if there were no witches , as there be now ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.288) Although I must needs confesse , that the witches can giue the deuil no power , nor he can take none by their sending : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.289) yet may it not bee that God giueth them power oftener because of those witches dealing with them , than if there were no witches at all ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.290) Dan. The craftinesse of deuils is such , as without the light of Gods worde , the wisest men vnder heauen muste needes be deceiued thereby . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.291) We see there be some men so deep in subtilties and can carie matters so close , that men can not discerne them : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.292) how much more the deuilles , which are exceedingly subtill , & craftie aboue the subtillest men ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.293) the question which you aske is in my iudgment somwhat hard : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.294) But this is vndoubted , that if the Lord God do giue vnto the deuils oftener power to hurt because of the witches , I meane because the deuils doe deale by such instruments , it is in his heauie iudgment against the wickednes of the people , which despise the true and heauenlie light of his word . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.295) As S. Paule prophecying of the comming of the great Antichrist sheweth , that because men did not receiue the loue of the trueth , God gaue the deuill power by Antichrist and his ministers , to seduce by lying signes and wonders . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.296) Indeed , I will not say that for the witch , the deuill hath power giuen him , but for the wickednesse of the people , which deserue that by witches the deuill shoulde haue power to seduce them further . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.297) Here yet we muste take heede of the common errour which a multitude are caried so hedlong withall , that they can by no means see , that God is prouoked by their sinnes to giue the deuill such instruments to work withall , but rage against the witch , euen as if she could do all . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D3V.298) M. B. Surelie , I should bee a wretch to deny , that God giueth the Deuilles power to plague and to seduce because of mens wickednes ; (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.299) but yet I would know whether a godly faythfull man or woman may not bee bewitched ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.300) Wee see the deuill had power giuen him over Iob ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.301) Dan. This example of Iob is not fit to prooue that a godly man may be bewitched , seeing that the deuill is not sayde to deale by witches against him , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.302) but it doeth prooue , that not only the godlie , but euen the most godly as holy Iob , who had none like him vpon earth may for their triall be giuen into the handes of Satan to be afflicted and tempted . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.303) And as I said , where Satan hath power granted him of God , to strike with bodily plagues any of the godly , for the triall of their fayth and patience , he will couet , if he can bring it about , to bee sent by some witch , and to haue it knowne that he was sent . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.304) But the faithfull are to turne theyr eies from the witch , and to deale with God , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.305) for from him the matter commeth . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.306) When they be tried ; the Lord in his good time will deliuer them depending vpon him , to their great praise and glory , euen as valiant souldiers . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.307) It is therefore , of no great force , whether Satan come from the witch against the godlie , or whether he haue no witch to deale by : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.308) ouercome thou the deuill , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.309) and thou ouercommest all . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.310) Indeed among the more ignorant sort he preuayleth much , when he toucheth those which imbrace the liuely word as sent from a witch . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.311) For many nowe doe euen quake and tremble , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.312) and their faith doth stagger . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.313) Hath hee power thinke they ouer such as be cunning in the scriptures , then what are they the better for their profession ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.314) the witch is on their bones as well as vpon others . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.315) By this it might seeme , and so they take it , that other helpes and remedies are to be sought than by the scriptures . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.316) And so they run (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.317) and seeke help where they ought not . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.318) M. B. Then I pray you , though I be already perswaded it is naught to seeke to these cunning men for help against witches , yet let vs conferre a little of that . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4R.319) There be diuers things which haue persuaded me to thinke marueilous well of them , and euen as of such as God hath giuen wisedome and skill vnto , euen for to doe much good . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.320) For we see many receiue help by them , and are deliuered from the plagues which come by deuils . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.321) And first , I wold know how they can bee so earnest against witches , if they deale with the deuill , and so be indeed witches themselues ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.322) how can they haue any mind in charity to doe good , to take pitie vpon such as be in misery ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.323) Or how will Satan driue forth Satan ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.324) For they no doubt , driue deuilles out of some . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.325) Dan. I would come to aunswere your questions touching the seeking help at the hands of cunning men or women , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.326) but tell me firste , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.327) are you resolued touching the sending of the spirits , and touching the harms that are done ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.328) Me think you slip too suddainly from these points ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.329) M. B. I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} tell whether I vnderstand your meaning in euery thing , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.330) but sure , I haue bene in error greatly I must needs confesse . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.331) And if you please , we may stande somewhat longer in these questions . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,D4V.332) {COM:insert_helsinki_sample_2_here} Dan. I doe verilie thinke that manie of the people are so perswaded : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.335) but what reason is there for it ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.336) Doeth God by his Spirit tell where the thing is which is lost , or stolen ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.337) Is it an Angell from heauen , or the soule of some man that is dead , which appeareth in the Chrystall , or in the glasse , and sheweth the image of the partie which hath stollen , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.338) or is that a witch ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.339) M. B. I had rather heare what you thinke touching these things , than shew what I haue thought . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.340) Dan. The deuils did make the heathen people beleeue that they were goddes , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.341) and so procured that they shoulde worship them with diuine worship . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.342) Through their craftines they had many wayes to establish this : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.343) they conueied themselues into images , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.344) and out of them gaue answeres , when they wer demanded , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.345) herein they vsed great craft , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.346) for wheareas they could not tell what should fall out , they framed the oracle in such sort as it was doubtfull , and might be taken both waies : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.347) and so looke which part it fell out on , that seemed and was taken to be the meaning of the gods . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.348) If they did know how things would fal out indeed , as they did know sundry things touchyng the kingdomes and monarchies of the world , by the writings of the Prophetes , and diuers things by coniectures , as the deuill could tell Saul should be slaine , because he saw God had cast him off , and the hearts of the Israelites fainted , and the Philistines were full of courage , those they would tell plainelie . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.349) Also they did conuey themselues into the bodies of men and women , and vtter thinges which seemed very diuine , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.350) such as I am perswaded were the Prophetisses the Sibylles among the heathen . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.351) Such was the maide at Philippos , which is mentioned in the Actes of the Apostles , which brought great gain to her maisters by deuining , out of whom Paule cast the deuill . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.352) This maide could tell of things lost , of things stollen , and such like , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,E4V.353) and great resort there was vnto her , as men had neede , or desired to see the strangenesse of the matter . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.354) M. B. Let me interrupt you a litle . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.355) The deuill can not be in all places at once : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.356) how could he then , remaining in the maide , tell what was done in places farre off ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.357) howe can the deuill tel where the thing lost or stolen is , which is not only farre off , but hidden ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.358) how can he shewe the image of the thiefe or witch ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.359) Can he sit and behold all thinges a farre off , and in secrete ? (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.360) Dan. We may not ascribe vnto Deuils that they can be in all places at once , or sit in one place and beholde all things done a farre off . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.361) But they ioyne together in this speciall worke , to set vp their kingdome , and to drawe the people after them , to seeke helpe at their handes , and so to worship them . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.362) Some of them be in one place , and some in another , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.363) and from all places doe stir vp the faithlesse people to run for helpe to those cunning men , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.364) and then they make the relation , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.365) for they goe thither also , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.366) they know the thiefe whome they moued to the theft , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.367) and can make resemblaunce of his face and apparell : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.368) they can tell where things be that are hid , hauing had a finger in the matter . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.369) And thus one spirite , as it doeth seeme , telleth things spoken and done farre off , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.370) but it is otherwise , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.371) there be manie that doe it , which resort from all the places where the things are done . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.372) M. B. I am satisfied touching this point . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.373) You were shewing howe the deuils did deale among the heathen out of the Fools , and out of men and women . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.374) Dan. Yea , and they haue subtillie wound themselues in againe among Christians . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.375) For vsing witches as their instruments , they make them beleeue that they doe manie harmes sent by them , which they do not , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.376) and whereas they haue power giuen them by God to afflict , they will seeme to doe it at the wrath and displeasure of the witch , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.377) she must send him , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.378) the matter must one way or the other appeare , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1R.379) eyther he will seeme euen compelled by force of such as do adiure him , to confesse that such a woman or such a man sent him , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.380) or els the witch must confesse so much . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.381) Then the people deuise how they may be safe against the witch , (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.382) there is running to the wisardes to learne what they should doe to withstand the furie of the witch , that she send not to them , or if she haue sent , how they may expell her spirit , and keep her from sending him againe : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.383) this is it which the deuill would haue : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.384) for now he vttereth all his wares : (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.385) he teacheth by these cunning men and women , many horrible abhominations , and foule abuses of the name of God , by which they are made {COM:sic} beleeue , that they haue remedie against the deuils sent by the witches , and that they are cured from their harmes . (GIFFORD-E2-P1,F1V.386)