At the Assizes at Croydon , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.3) the 24th July , . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.4) Mr. Udall was called , and commanded to hold up his Hand at the Bar ; who held up his Hand accordingly . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.6) Then was his Indictment read , being thus : John Udall , late of London Clerk , thou art indicted , &c. The form of which Indictment was as against Murderers : namely , That he not having the Fear of God before his Eyes , but being stirred up by the instigation and motion of the Devil , did maliciously publish a slanderous and infamous Libel against the Queen's Majesty , her Crown and Dignity . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.7) And being asked whether he were Guilty , or not Guilty , he answered thus : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.8) Udall . My Lords , may it please you to hear me a word or two ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.9) Judge Clarke . Answer first to the Indictment , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.10) and then you shall be heard . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.11) Udall . My Lords , I beseech you hear me first a word or twain . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.12) Judge . Say on . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.13) Udall . My Case is rare , and such as hath not been heard of heretofore , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.14) and consisteth upon divers points of Law ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.15) I humbly crave of your Lordships to grant me to answer by Counsel , if it may be . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.16) Judge Clarke . You $can $not {TEXT:cannot} have it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.17) and therefore answer to your Indictment . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.18) Udall . Then I answer my Lords , that I am not Guilty . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.19) Judge Clarke . How wilt thou be tried ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.20) Udall . I do desire to be tried by an Inquest of learned Men ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.21) but seeing I shall not , I am contented to be tried by the ordinary Course , as these Men before me are , that is as you use to say by God and the Country . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.22) Then the Clerk of the Assizes said to the Parties arraigned , after he had read the Names of the Jury before them These Men whose Names you have heard , are to go upon your Lives and your Deaths ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.23) look upon them when they are called to be sworn , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.24) and if you know any Cause , take exception against them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.25) Then the rest of the Felons having nothing to say , Mr. Udall said , My Lords , I am ignorant of the Law in this Point ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.26) I pray you therefore shew me the manner of Challenging the Jury ; how many I may challenge , and whether I may render a Reason of the same . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.27) Judge . I think you will know a Cause in your Conscience , before you challenge any of them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.28) Udall . Then I pray you , my Lord , how many am I by Law permitted to challenge ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.29) Judge . Nay , I am not to tell you that ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.30) I sit to judge , and not to give you counsel . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.31) Then Mr. Udall keeping silence , Proclamation was made according to the manner : That if any Man could give in Evidence against John Udall , Prisoner at the Bar , that they should come into the Court and be heard . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.32) Then Mr. Daulton stood up : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.33) And in the mean while Mr. Udall said to the Judges thus ; My Lords , I beseech you answer me to one question before Mr. Daulton begins to speak . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.34) Judge . Say on . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.35) Udall . Is it permitted me by Law to answer to those things in particular , which are brought to prove this Indictment ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.36) Judge . It is permitted . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.37) Udall . Then I humbly crave of your Lordships to grant me two Petitions , which I think will greatly further both him in speaking , me in answering , and also be a more ready help to the memory of the Jury , that they may be able to bear the matter away . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.38) Judge . What are your Petitions ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.39) Udall . The first is , that when Mr. Daulton hath spoken to one Point what he can , I may answer to that before he proceed any further , lest my Memory being overwhelmed with multitude of matter , I should forget to answer to some Points of Importance , and the Jury made less able to discern of the Particulars . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.40) The second is , that it might please you to grant me to answer without Interruption . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.41) Judge . You shall have them both granted . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.42) Dault. Then Mr. Daulton said , Mr. Udall , you have these petitions granted you , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.43) I desire the same of you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.44) And then he desiring leave of the Judges , before he should prove the Indictment , to say something touching this , that this Man , and such as he is , do maintain , &c. (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.45) After leave given him , he used a very long Speech , to the great disgrace and slander of the Cause , and those Men that professed the same , especially of Mr. Udall : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,171.46) and making mention in the same his Speech , of five several Books of Common-Prayer , made by such as desire Reformation ; he affirmed , that in one of the said Books there was a horrible Blasphemy , in these words of the Consecration of the Lord's Supper , Take , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.47) eat , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.48) this is my Body ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.49) drink , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.50) this is my Blood . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.51) Then he cried out , saying , Oh horrible Blasphemy ! (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.52) And taking occasion upon the variety of these Books , he affirmed that there was no constancy in these Men : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.53) And whereas one of the Books doth allow , that over every Congregation there should be a faithful Pastor ; that is , quoth he , a Shepherd , whereby they may take the Government out of her Majesty's hand , and so bring her Majesty to be one of their Sheep ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.54) no , quoth he , her Majesty is no Sheep under any Shepherd in the World , except Christ : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.55) and for the Government that these Men do seek for , I am assured there is none such to be found in the Word of God . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.56) Udall . Mr. Daulton hath used a very large Speech , which doth nothing concern to prove the Indictment , or me in particular ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.57) and therefore seeing I am not called hither to dispute as if I would , I should not be permitted I will not answer it ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.58) only thus much will I say if it please your Lordships that seeing Mr. Daulton is by Profession a Lawyer , and the Cause is yet in question amongst the learned Divines , $me $thinks {TEXT:methinks} it had been more modesty for Mr. Daulton to have suspended his Judgment until the Controversy had been determined amongst them , to whose Profession it belongeth : especially seeing Mr. Daulton knoweth in his Conscience , that he hath heretofore carried some shew of liking to the Cause , which now he speaketh against . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.59) Judge . Sirrah , Sirrah , answer to the matter that Mr. Daulton hath against you ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.60) Mr. Daulton , proceed to the proof of the points of the Indictment . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.61) Dault. My Masters , you of the Jury , &c. I will prove , First , That he had a malicious Intent in making of this Book : Secondly , that he is the Author of it : And Thirdly , That these matters contained in the Indictment are Felony , by the Statute Eliz. 23 . cap. 2 . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.62) Then was Mr. Beadle the Register called , who was sworn , that these Examinations following were as the Parties themselves confessed the same : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.63) And to prove the first , the Clerk of the Assizes caused Stephen Chatfield to be called into the Court , to give in Evidence against John Udall ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.64) but he appeared not at all , for which the Judges were offended ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.65) and Serjeant Puckering said , there was a Warrant sent for him : whereupon some standing by affirmed , that the Warrant came after his departure from home . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.66) Then Mr. Daulton said , that he went out of the way of purpose ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.67) and Judge Clarke said , Mr. Udall , you are glad of that . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.68) Mr. Udall answered ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.69) Udall . My Lords , I wish heartily he had been here ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.70) for as I am sure he never could say any thing against me to prove this point , so I have heard and am able to prove it to be true , that he is very sorry that ever he made any complaint against me , confessing he did it in his Anger , when Martin came first out ; and by their Suggestions , whom he hath proved since by Experience to be very bad Men . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.71) Daulton It is no great matter whether he be here or no , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.72) for we have his Articles against you , and your own Confession , to prove this point sufficiently . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.73) Then were Mr. Chatfield 's Articles that he brought to the Archbishop against Mr. Udall read by the Clerk , containing a Report of certain written Papers ; tending , as he supposed , to the making of such a Book as this is : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.74) and thereupon asked Mr. Udall whose writing they were ; who answered , they are a Friend's of mine : whereunto Chatfield replied , wishing him to take heed of them , and to rid his hands of them , and to return them to his Friend from whom he had them , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.75) for he doubted they concerned the State . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.76) These Papers he saw in Mr. Udall 's Study at Kingston . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.77) Also he further saith , that at another time , he having conferred with Mr. Udall in a certain Field by Kingston , called Little-field , about this putting to silence ; he saith , that the said Mr. Udall uttered these words , That if they put him to silence , he would give the Bishops such a Blow , as they never had . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.78) Udall . May it please your Lordships that I may answer to these things in particular ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.79) Judge . Say on , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.80) let us hear your answer . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.81) Udall . I was accused this time two Years upon the words of Chatfield , that these Papers that he did see in my Study , should be the matter of Martin-Mar-Prelate ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.82) and because I cleared my self of that , it is now brought to prove another matter : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.83) but it proveth nothing , unless it were set down in particular what they were . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.84) Dault. It proveth this , that you had a purpose to write this Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.85) and those things were Collections from your Friends , and Preparations thereunto . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.86) Udall . Let the Jury consider how that Point is prov'd by it . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.87) Besides , it may be prov'd , that this Book was extant in Men's hands before the Conference between Chatfield and me ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.88) therefore how can it be prov'd that this is the Book that should give them such a Blow ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.89) Dault. But you $can $not {TEXT:cannot} deny the second Point , that you had a pretended Malice , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.90) for it is extant in your own Confession : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.91) Read his Answer to those Articles of Mr. Chatfield . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.92) Then the Clerk read his Answer to this effect , That if the Bishops put him to silence , they would give him Occasion and Leisure to be imployed in writing against them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.93) Then said Mr. Daulton , Is not this most evident , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.94) what can be plainer than it is ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.95) Udall . I pray your Lordships give me leave to explain these things . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.96) Judge . Say on , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.97) and be brief . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.98) Udall . Mr. Chatfield told me , that he was commanded to come to Kingston and be resident there , of purpose that I might be put to silence , and that there might not appear any want of a Preacher , I being put down ; whereupon I said , in effect , as is above rehearsed : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.99) But I pray you hear in what sense these words were uttered . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.100) Judge . The Matter is clear , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.101) and we see what you can say to it well enough ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.102) proceed , Mr. Daulton , to the Proof of the second Point . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.103) Dault. And that you be the Author of this slanderous and infamous Libel , it shall be proved clearly to the Jury before your face . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.104) Then said he to the Clerk , Read the Answer of Nicholas Thompkins , which was made upon his Oath before her Majesty's High-Commissioners . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.105) Then was read to this effect , that Thompkins knew that Mr. Udall was the Author of that Book call'd The Demonstration , for he said that Mr. Udall himself told him so . Also that he saw either in Mr. Udall 's House , or in some other Place in Kingston , a Catalogue of all the Books that Mr. Udall had made , amongst which The Demonstration was one . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.106) Judge . You see here that this is clear , and a sufficient Testimony . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.107) Udall . It carried some shew , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.108) but it is nothing . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.109) Judge . Do you call the Testimony of one being an honest Man , and upon his Oath , before the High-Commissioners , to be nothing ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.110) Can you answer it ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,172.111) Udall . My Lords , I answer it thus , denying it to be his Testimony ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.113) for if it be , why is he not present to verify it face to face , according to the Law ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.114) Judge Puck. It is verified to be his true answer , under the hands of Dr. Auberie and Dr. Lewen , the latter whereof confirmed it before me upon his corporal Oath . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.115) Dault. You can take no Exceptions against that , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.116) and will you say he is not an honest Man ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.117) Udall . I am persuaded he was amazed , and answered he knew not what : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.118) for he hath reported it so diversly , that it seemeth he remembreth not what he said . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.119) Judge . But the Oath of Thompkins is to be preferred before his Report . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.120) Udall . My Lords , I answer ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.121) I protest unto you , and will verify it upon my Oath , if it please you that he told me the day before I was committed , at his Master's House , that he could not say , neither would he for a thousand Pounds affirm any more than this , that he heard me say I would not doubt but set my Name to that Book if I might have indifferent Judges . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.122) And further if it please you , my Lords here are some Witnesses that upon their Oaths will testify , how diversly he hath reported of his Confession to this thing , if it please your Lordships to accept them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.123) And the Witnesses offering themselves to be heard , were answered , that because their Witness was against the Queen's Majesty , they could not be heard . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.124) And after other Speeches passing , Mr. Udall . said {COM:sic} ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.125) Udall . My Lords , the Speech of the Catalogue is most vain , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.126) and hath no Sense in it ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.127) for can I have made so many Books , as that I need make a Catalogue of them ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.128) It may be , my Lords , he saw a Catalogue of the Books in my Study , wherein if that were one , it is rather an Argument that I made it not ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.129) for Men use not to put their own Works in the Catalogue of those that they have in their Study . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.130) Dault. You of the Jury consider this , that Thompkins was Mrs. Crane 's Man , and one that was privy to all the Printing that was at her House ; and Mr. Udall used to go often thither . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.131) Udall . All that is nothing to me : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.132) what if I used to go thither , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.133) she is of my Acquaintance , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.134) I know her to be an honest Gentlewoman ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.135) what can you gather by any of these things ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.136) Why is not Thompkins here to declare his Testimony , and to say what he can ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.137) Dault. He is beyond the Seas about Merchandizes , sent away by Mr. Gore , who married Mrs. Crane 's Daughter . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.138) Udall . How doth that appear ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.139) He is no Merchant , but a Serving-Man ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.140) and if he were , what is that to me ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.141) But it $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be proved that Mr. Gore did send him , so that here is nothing but bare Papers to shew for Evidence against me . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.142) Then there was much said , to prove that the Testimony of a Man absent was sufficient , if it were proved to be his upon the Oaths of others . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.143) And then the Judge said , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.144) Judge . What say you ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.145) Did you make the Book , Udall , yea or no ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.146) What say you to it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.147) will you be sworn ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.148) Will you take your Oath that you made it not ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.149) We will offer you that Favour which never any indicted of Felony had before ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.150) take your Oath , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.151) and swear you did it not , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.152) and it will suffice . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.153) Udall . My Lords , I pray you hear me to this : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.154) If I would have done so before the Lords of her Majesty's Privy-Council that committed me , I had not come hither ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.155) but I neither then might , nor may do so now , whereof I pray you let me shew a Reason to the Jury . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.156) I and many more do think the Book to be good , for any thing we can find in it , and to be written in defence of a Cause which we take to be most true . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.157) Now the Author is sought for , that he may be punished for some Speeches that may be wrested in the Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.158) therefore lest he should be found if one after another that are suspected do deny it it is thought best every one neither to confess nor to deny , yea altho' we suffer some Punishment , rather than the Author , being found out , should suffer Extremity . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.159) Judge . Nay , this is but a shift , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.160) I will go further with you ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.161) Will you but say upon your Honesty that you made it not , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.162) and you shall see what shall be said unto you ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.163) Udall . My Lords , it is all one , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.164) I make a Conscience of my Word as of my Oath , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.165) for I must give account for both . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.166) This is no direct Course in this Place . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.167) Judge . You of the Jury consider this . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.168) This argueth , that if he were not guilty , he would clear himself , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.169) and consider well of it . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.170) And then speaking to Mr. Udall , he said , Do not stand in it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.171) but confess it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.172) and submit your self to the Queen's Mercy , before the Jury find you guilty . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.173) Udall . My Lord , I answer , that according to my Indictment I am not guilty , every Point whereof must be proved , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.174) or else the whole is false . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.175) And I beseech your Lordships give me leave , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.176) and I will be very brief : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.177) My Conscience doth not accuse me that I have so much as offended her Majesty , her Council , or the meanest of her People in any thing I have done concerning this Cause ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.178) for if I should , of all other I deserved the least Favour , being one that professed to teach others Loyalty to her Majesty , and Love to one another : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.179) and would you have me to confess a Fault where there is none ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.180) No , I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} do it , neither will I : wherefore proceed in your Course begun . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.181) Dault. We have more Proof than this , tho' yet this were sufficient of itself ; wherefore read the other Examinations . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.182) Then was read the Confession of Henry Sharpe of Northampton , who upon his Oath , before my Lord Chancellor , had said , that he heard Mr. Penry say , that Mr. Udall was the Author of The Demonstration . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.183) Udall . Sharpe and I were never above once in Company together to my remembrance , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.184) neither knew he ever any of my Dealings . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.185) This is nothing to prove me the Author of the Book : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.186) Reports be uncertain ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.187) and if Reports be true , the Archbishop himself told me , that Mr. Penry made it ; which is more forcible for me than any of Sharpe 's Reports can be against me . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.188) Dault. You mistake the Matter , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.189) the force of the Point resteth in Mr. Penry 's Report , who was one of your great Acquaintances and Familiars ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.190) and you , and Waldgrave , and he , were at Mrs. Crane 's House . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.191) Udall . Here is one Man's saying that another said so ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.192) let the Jury consider of what force this Proof is ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.193) if you have any more , let it appear . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.194) Judge Clarke . You of the Jury have not to enquire whether he be guilty of the Felony , but whether he be the Author of the Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.195) for it is already set down by the Judgment of all the Judges in the Land , that whosoever was Author of the Book , was guilty by the Statute of Felony , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.196) and this is declared above half a year agone . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,173.197) Udall . Tho' it be so determined already , yet I pray your Lordships give me leave to shew that which I have to say , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.199) and I will be very brief ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.200) and it is to prove , that tho' I were found to be the Author , yet it $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be within the Compass of the Statute , Anno 23 Eliz. cap. 2 . whereupon the Indictment is framed . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.201) Judge . You shall be heard to say for yourself what you can , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.202) therefore say on . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.203) Udall . Tho' I be not by Profession a Lawyer , yet I think I can shew it clearly by these Reasons following : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.204) 1 . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.205) The intent of the Law-makers which always is to be regarded in these Cases is to be considered , which appeareth in the Preface of the Statute in these words , To frustrate the Malice of those that be evil-affected to her Highness . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.206) Now I pray you consider this (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.207) how can it be ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.208) or how is it possible that a Preacher , of the same Religion which her Majesty professeth and maintaineth , who is known continually to pray unto God for her Highness's Prosperity and Happiness , both-5 of Soul and Body ; how is it possible , I say , that such a one should be maliciously affected towards her ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.209) Therefore it is evident that the Statute was made against the Papists , who use to slander her Highness with the Terms of Heretick , &c. and no way against us ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.210) for I dare boldly say of my self , and in the name of all my Brethren , Cursed is he of God , and he deserveth doubtless to be hated of Men , that doth imagine the least hurt against her Highness . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.211) 2 . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.212) The Matter that maketh a Man a Felon by that Statute , must proceed from a malicious Intent against her Highness , which I or any such as I am can no way justly be charged with ; partly for that which is said before , and partly for that my Course of teaching and living in this Country these nine years saving this last Year , wherein I have been absent is known to have tended to no other end , than the provoking and persuading of the People to like and yield Obedience unto her Majesty , and the Religion received in her Dominions : for the Proof whereof , I refer my self to the Consciences of all Men in the Country that have known me . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.213) And further , is it likely , that I who have been trained up in the Universities under her Majesty's Protection , and have always bended my Studies to the Advancement of the Sincerity of the Gospel ; so that those small Crumbs of Learning which I have gathered , I do acknowledge to have received by her Majesty's means : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.214) These things considered , how can it be that I should be evil-affected towards her Highness , whom I protest I unfeignedly reverence ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.215) And therefore the worst that the Author can be charged withal , is his Over-heat and too much Vehemency , by reason of his Zeal against the Abuses , and not any Malice against her Majesty , or the meanest of her Subjects . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.216) Again , the Matter , to bring it within the Compass of the Statute , must be false : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.217) But this Book is written in the behalf of a most true Cause . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.218) Lastly , The End of it must be either-1 to the Defamation of the Queen's Majesty , or stirring up of Insurrection , Sedition , or Rebellion : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.219) For the former , I trust that the whole Course of our Behaviour , both-1 in our Ministry and Conversation , declareth it self to be so far from seeking to defame her Highness , as it tendeth , to the uttermost of our Powers , to the Advancement of her Honour . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.220) For I am persuaded that there is none of us that would refuse to undergo any Pain , whereby her Majesty might any way be the better honoured ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.221) yea , we would not refuse , if need so required , to lay down our Lives for redeeming of the least aking of her Majesty's little Finger , wherewith she might be grieved . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.222) Now for the second End , which is the moving or stirring up of Rebellion , &c. I pray your Lordships , and you of the Jury to consider this : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.223) There have been , since the first day of her Majesty's Reign , learned Men , that have desired the Advancement of this Cause , and many of the People that affected it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.224) and yet hath it never appeared , that by Occasion hereof , there hath in all this time been any in any Place that have raised any Insurrection or Sedition : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.225) yea this Book , which is now in question , hath been extant these two years ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.226) yet I trust neither your Lordships , nor any here present can shew that any People in any Corner of the Land , nay it $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be justly proved that any one Person hath taken any occasion hereby to enterprize any such matter : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.227) and therefore the making of this Book $can $not {TEXT:cannot} be Felony . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.228) Besides all this , if there had been any such thing meant by the Author , or received by the People , as the Indictment chargeth me withal , which is the Defamation of her Highness's Government yet , as I take it , it should not be Felony by that Statute ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.229) for the whole Course of it declareth , that it is only meant of them that defame her Highness's Person , and not her Government , as it is manifest by the last Proviso ; wherein it is shewed , that the whole Statute doth determine and end with her Majesty's Life . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.230) And we may not think their Wisdoms that made the Law to be so unadvised , as to make a Law for the Preservation of the Prince's Government , which is continual , to last no longer than the Life of one Prince , which is temporary : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.231) therefore it seemeth that the Statute hath no further regard than this , that her Highness's Person might be preserved in that Honour and Dignity , which becometh her Royal Dignity and Estate . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.232) And I do beseech your Lordships to answer me , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.233) for I appeal to your Consciences , as you will answer to God for my Life ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.234) and I pray you tell the Jury , whether you do think the Intent of the Statute were in any sort meant against us , and not rather against the Papists . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.235) Judge Puck. Judge Puckering said , You do not well to charge us so with our Consciences , which God only is to know . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.236) I answer you , the Intent of the Statute is against all , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.237) for so the words are . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.238) Udall . The words , my Lord , I confess are so ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.239) but is the principal Intent so ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.240) Judge . Yes , it is so . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.241) Judge Clarke . We have heard you speak for your self to this Point at large , which is nothing to excuse you ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.242) for you $can $not {TEXT:cannot} excuse your self to have done it with a malicious Intent against the Bishops , and that exercising their Government which the Queen hath appointed them , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.243) and so it is by consequence against the Queen . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.244) Udall . My Lords , I am persuaded the Author did it not of any Malice against them ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.245) and for my self , I protest I wish them as much good as I do to my own Soul , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.246) and will pray to God to give them Repentance . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.247) But the Cause why the Author did so earnestly inveigh against them was this , as it seemeth , because he perceived them not only to execute an Authority which he taketh to be unlawful by the Word of God , but also for that they do not the tenth part of that good even in those corrupt Callings which by Law they might do ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.248) and I am persuaded that your Lordships know in your own Consciences , that they do not the tenth part of that they are bound to do . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,174.249) Judge Clarke . That is true , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.251) they do not the good that they might do ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.252) but yet that doth not excuse you : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.253) for it is plain in your Book , that you writ not against them only , but you writ against the State ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.254) for is it not against the State , when you say , that it is easier to live in England a Papist , an Anabaptist , of the Family of Love , and what not ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.255) Yea , you say , I could live so in a Bishop's House , it may be these twenty years , and never be much molested for it . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.256) What is this but a plain slandering of the State ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.257) And mark the words , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.258) for you say , you could live so in England : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.259) And doth her Majesty's Laws allow of Papists ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.260) This maketh evidently against you , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.261) and it is so plain that you $can $not {TEXT:cannot} deny it . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.262) Udall . My Lords , if it might please you to hear me a word or two , I will shew the meaning of the Author of the Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.263) I beseech you to hear me , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.264) and I will be very brief : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.265) I know the Laws of England do not allow of any such are mentioned in the Book , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.266) for there are godly Laws made for the punishing of them , if they were put in execution . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.267) But this I take to be the Author's Meaning : That it is not spoken in respect of her Majesty's Government and Laws , but in respect of the Bishops , whom your Lordships know to be wholly imployed in finding us out , and punishing of us , not regarding in a manner the punishing any Sin else . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.268) Judge . What , Sirrah , will you not confess any Fault to be in the Book ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.269) You seek to excuse all . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.270) Udall . My Lords , I do acknowledge that there was never any Work of Man so perfect , but there have been imperfections in the same ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.271) and therefore there may be some fault in the Manner , but surely none in the Matter : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.272) for the Bishops themselves will confess that they may fail in their Actions , and be partial as they are Men in the manner of handling any thing . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.273) So also the Author of this Book being assured that the Matter is without reproof , may err in the Manner , being over-zealous in the handling of it ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.274) and this fault I will easily confess to be in the Book , my Lord : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.275) but I am sure the Author never had any malicious Intent against her Highness , or any of her Subjects . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.276) Judge Clarke . This Book hath made you to come within the Compass of the Statute , tho' your Intent were not so : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.277) for I am sure there was Mr. Stubbs , well known to divers here , to be a good Subject and an honest Man ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.278) yet taking upon him to write a Book against her Majesty touching Mounseir , he thereby came within the Compass of Law , which he intended not in making of the Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.279) and I am persuaded , that he did it of a good affection towards her Majesty ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.280) and yet if this Law had been made then , which was made since , he had died for it : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.281) So you , tho' you intended not to come within the compass of the Statute , yet the Law reacheth to your Fact , as that did to us . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.282) Udall . My Lords , his Case and mine is not alike , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.283) for his Book concerned her Highness's Person ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.284) but the Author of this Book toucheth only the Corruptions of the Bishops , and therefore not the Person of her Majesty . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.285) Judge . But I will prove this book to be against her Majesty's Person ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.286) for her Majesty being the supreme Governor of all Persons and Causes in these her Dominions , hath established this kind of Government in the hands of the Bishops , which thou and thy Fellows so strive against ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.287) and they being set in Authority for the exercising of this Government by her Majesty , thou dost not-1 strive against them , but her Majesty's Person , seeing they $can $not {TEXT:cannot} alter the Government which the Queen hath laid upon them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.288) Udall . My Lords , we are not ignorant of this , that her Majesty hath a care that all things might be well ; and in that respect hath given them often in charge , upon the Considerations of these Controversies to see to it that nothing be amiss ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.289) and because she had a good Opinion of them for their Gravity and Learning , she believeth them when they say all is well and in good case : whereas , if they had the Grace to look into these things , and to make them known as they be , indeed her Majesty and the State , I doubt not , would quickly redress them ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.290) and therefore was it that the Author did so charge them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.291) Then the Judge proceeding farther in the Book to prove him to have offended ; he took occasion by the same to speak against railing against Magistrates ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.292) and speaking to Mr. Udall , he said in effect thus : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.293) Judge Clarke . Sirrah , you that should have been a Teacher of her Majesty's People , you should have taught your self not to have railed upon the Rulers of the People : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.294) for do you not know what is written in the 23d of Exodus , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.295) Thou shalt not rail upon the Rules of the People , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.296) for whosoever doth so shall die the death . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.297) And do you not know what is written in the 23d of Acts , where the Apostle Paul being before the High-Priest , called him a painted Wall ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.298) and being smitten by one of the High-Priest Servants , it was said unto him , Revilest thou the Lord's High-Priest ? To which Paul answered , I knew not , Brethren , that he was the High-Priest . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.299) Lo ! thus did he acknowledge his Fault : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.300) Do you know these things , Sirrah ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.301) Udall . My Lord , you know that we hold it not lawful for a Minister to be a Civil Magistrate , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.302) and there are at least in this Land , amongst whom I am the most unworthy , that are of the same Judgment in this Point . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.303) Judge . But how if the Queen doth give it to them ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.304) Udall . They ought not to take it . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.305) And , my Lord if it please you , I will answer to your Proofs , altho' I came not hither to dispute . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.306) But in my answering , my purpose is not to give any liberty to any Man to rail upon any that are in Authority . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.307) Now to your Proofs : I say , my Lords , that the place out of Exod. 23 , doth rather concern your Lordships , and such as are under her Majesty for Judges , than any way to concern the Bishops : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.308) And touching the second place out of Acts 23 , where the Apostle saith , Brethren , I wist not that it was the High-Priest : the meaning of that Place is , as if he should say , I thought there had not been any High-Priest now , seeing Christ being come , the High Priesthood was to cease : so that the Apostle doth not acknowledge any Fault in that his Speech , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.309) for there was no lawful High-Priest of that time ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.310) neither did he acknowledge any , seeing they did end in Christ . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.311) And thus do the best Divines expound the Place . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.312) Then , after some farther Speeches of this Exposition , the Judge returned to the matter of the Book again , saying , That the Book did concern the State , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.313) and said : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.314) Judge . But , Sirrah , thou canst not so excuse thy self , as though it touched not the Queen and the State ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,175.315) for is it not written in thy Book , that this Saying will not serve their turns , The Queen and Council will have it so ? whereby it is plain , that thou didst speak against the Queen and the State . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.316) Udall . My Lord , the Author only meaneth this , That when we are called before the Bishops , they were often driven to use this Argument when they had nothing else to say for themselves , that they could be content many things were amended ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.317) but it must be so , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.318) for the Queen and Council will have it so : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.319) And surely herein $me $thinks {TEXT:methinks} they slander her Highness ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.320) and we tell them , that however they bear it out here before Men , yet before God that Excuse will not serve their turn . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.321) Judge . Thou canst not carry it away so : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.322) Dost not thou plainly say , That they are not safe , tho' they have human Authority on their side ; but he that is on our side is mightier than they ? Whereby thou both abasest her Majesty , and also dost threaten them with some Force and Violence . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.323) Udall . It is true , that whosoever doth unjustly is not safe in it , tho' all the Princes in the world should defend him in it ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.324) and that is the Meaning of the Author : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.325) But to say , that Force and Violence is threatned them , is farthest doubtless from this Meaning ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.326) for it is known to all the World , that we desire , by all good means , to commend this holy Cause of Reformation to her Majesty and the State , and do not look for neither , that ever it should by any force prevail , but that it would please God to honour her Highness with the advancement of the same . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.327) Judge . No , no , these are but Excuses ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.328) these malicious Speeches proceeded from thee , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.329) and were the Ground-work of all these Libels that have been dispersed since , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.330) and thou art known to be the Ring-leader of this Faction . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.331) Udall . There is no reason to charge me with other Men's doings , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.332) every Man must answer for himself ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.333) but as for me alas ! , I am no body : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.334) there are five hundred Ministers in this Land of my judgement in these things , the meanest of which I acknowledge to be far better learned than I am . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.335) But by the way , my Lords , I pray your Lordships give me leave to say one thing , which I being about to speak of before , was interrupted ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.336) and therefore seeing now it cometh into my Memory , I pray you to hear me , tho' it be out of time , concerning the Felony whereof I am accused ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.337) it maketh greatly for me . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.338) Judge . What is it ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.339) Let us hear what you can say . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.340) Udall . When I was before the Lords of her Majesty's Council at the time of my Commitment , amongst other things that I alledged against the taking of an Oath to accuse my self , I said , that the thing was accounted criminal , and therefore by Law I was not to answer : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.341) My Lord Anderson said , that I said true , if the case had concerned either-1 the loss of Life or Limb ; whereby it is manifest , that then my Case was not esteemed Felony . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.342) Judge . Tho' the Judges had not then concluded it , yet it was Law before , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.343) or else it could not so be determined after ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.344) the violent course of others since , hath caused your Case to be more narrowly sifted . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.345) Then the Judge having spoken to the like effect also said to the Jury , That they should not need to trouble themselves to find him Guilty of the Felony , but only it was sufficient if they found him Guilty to be the Author of the Book : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.346) for , quoth he , it is already determined by all the Judges of the Land , that the Author of that Book was in the compass of the Statute of Felony ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.347) and this , quoth he , was concluded before we came hither : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.348) Therefore you being ignorant of the Law , and we being sworn , as well as you are , you are to hear us , and to take our exposition of the Law . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.349) And after many other Speeches , the Judges said , Go thy way , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.350) we will hear thee no longer , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.351) get thee hence ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.352) and shaking his Hand , he called for the other Felons to hear their Causes . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.353) Then the Jury said , What can we find ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.354) Judge . Find him Author of the Book , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.355) and leave the Felony to us . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.356) And after some other Speeches , Mr. Fuller said to the Jury , You are to find him Author of the Book , and also guilty of a malicious Intent in making it . Whereat Mr. Daulton said , What have you to do with the matter , Mr. Fuller , to speak to the Jury ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.357) Then there being some Noise at the Bar , Mr. Udall could not any more be heard : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.358) Yet as he was ready to depart , he said to the Jury , You of the Jury , consider this , that you have not-1 to consult about the Life of a Seminary and Popish Priest , but of a Minister of the Gospel . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.359) Then Judge Clarke shewed the Reasons to the Jury , why they must find him Guilty ; saying , The Evidences are manifest for the first Point , that he is the Author of the Book ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.360) and the second is a Point in Law agreed upon by all the Judges , as I have said . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.361) So the Jury , after they had heard the Evidences of the other Felons at the Bar , departed to consult about them ; in which time of their Consultation , there came two several Messages , exhorting him to submit himself , and to yield unto the Judges before the Jury had given up their Verdict . Unto whom Mr. Udall replied , willing them not to trouble him with any such matter ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.362) for he was clear in his Conscience , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.363) and therefore he was not to accuse himself . In which time also the Jury divers times sent and received Messages from the Judges ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.364) and at last , the Foreman of the Jury went himself unto them . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.365) Thus having debated of the Evidences of the rest of the Felons with Mr. Udall , after the Judges had dined , the Jury brought in their Verdict that he was guilty of Felony . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.366) After that Baron Clarke had finished all other matters of Law , and that the Juries had given their Verdicts on the Felons , finding some Guilty , and some Not Guilty , the Judge commanded all the Prisoners to stand forth and to answer to their Names : who did so . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.367) And first , Mr. Udall was called , who stood at the Bar ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.368) but the Judge commanded him for that time to stand aside , saying , That he would deal with him anon . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.369) Then some of the Prisoners which were saved by their Books , were burnt in their Hands ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.370) and for that Night there was nothing more done . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.371) Then the Judge commanding the Jailor to bring the Prisoners betimes in the morning , commanded them to depart : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.372) And so for that time every Man departed to his place . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.373) The next morning , being the 25th of July , about four of the Clock , the Prisoners were brought to the Bar , who stayed till the coming of the Judges : who came thither by six of the Clock , or thereabouts , and called the Prisoners by their Names to receive Sentence of Death : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,176.374) And first , they began with Mr. Udall ; who , after he was called , was commanded to stand aside till anon . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.375) And then were seven Felons that received Sentence of Death ; who being taken aside , Mr. Udall was called the second time ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.376) and the Clerk of the Assizes said , John Udall , hold up thy Hand , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.377) what canst thou alledge for thy self , why thou should'st not receive Judgment to die ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.378) Udall . My Lords , notwithstanding my earnest pleading and protesting of mine Innocency yesterday , which I could and would have done more clearly , but that I was so much interrupted ; yet it hath pleased the Jury , upon their Consciences , to find me Guilty of that , which , I thank God , never entered into my heart : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.379) Now therefore must I plead another Plea , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.380) and therefore I crave of your Lordships to grant me the Benefit of the Pardon granted the last Parliament . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.381) Judge . I think you can have no Benefit of it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.382) for I am deceived if it be not excepted . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.383) Then said he to the Clerk , or some other , Reach me the Statute-Book : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.384) And whilst he looked into the same , Mr. Udall said , I pray your Lordships consider the Ground of my Plea , albeit indeed it seems to be excepted : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.385) Your Lordships confessed yesterday , and I shewed it by my Lord Anderson 's Speeches to me , that it was not thought Felony until late ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.386) and therefore the things that be excepted , be such as be inquirable and punishable in the Ecclesiastical Courts . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.387) Judge . That is nothing ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.388) for if the lesser be excepted , much rather is the greater . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.389) Udall . My Lords , I refer it to your Consciences and favourable Considerations : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.390) The Words are these in the Pardon , which he repeated : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.391) And they finding it to be as he had said , the Judge said , Here is no help for you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.392) And after other Speeches between them of the Meaning of the Words of the Pardon , the Judge said , Mr. Udall , your Counsel hath deceived you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.393) Udall . My Lords , I have not received any Counsel herein , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.394) for I have been close Prisoner this half year , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.395) and therefore could not attain to have any Counsel ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.396) but thus much have I gathered , which is my Judgment , out of the Book . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.397) Judge . What can you alledge more for your self ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.398) for this helpeth you not . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.399) Udall . Nothing but mine own Innocency , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.400) but that your Lordships may roceed {COM:sic} . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.401) Judge . What say you ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.402) Are you contented to submit your self to the Queen ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.403) Udall . Yea , or else I were not worthy to live in her Highness's Dominions . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.404) Judge . But will you acknowledge your self to have offended her Majesty in making this Book ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.405) She is gracious and full of Mercy ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.406) it may be , that we , reporting your Submission unto her Majesty , may procure her Pardon for you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.407) Udall . May it please your Lordship to hear me ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.408) The Cause for which I am called in question , I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} forsake in any sort , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.409) for I hold it to be the undoubted Truth of God ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.410) but , &c. (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.411) And then he was interrupted by Judge Puckering , who said : Judge . Nay , stay there , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.412) you $can $not {TEXT:cannot} go away with that Speech unanswered , to buz into the People's ears such a Conceit , that it is an undoubted Truth that you hold ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.413) for I hold it to be an undoubted Falshood . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.414) And then he proceeded further in a large set Speech , the effect whereof was , That this Land having been governed by sundry Nations , hath yet kept her antient Laws , which he affirmed would be overthrown , if this Government that these Men seek for , should be established : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.415) And then he further shewed , What Inconveniencies as he thought would come by the same , viz. That we having Laws and Judges appointed to decide all Controversies , this Presbytery which these Men seek for , would overthrow all , and bring to their Censure and Government all Men's Causes , or else they would excommunicate them from their Churches : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.416) yea , and they are so hot for this Government , that they will not stay for the Magistrate ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.417) and if the Magistrate will not , they will reform themselves : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.418) and one of them writing in a Letter to a Friend of his , saith , Let us number our hot Brethren , that we may know who will stand to it , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.419) for it is high time . So that it is plain , that if they $can $not {TEXT:cannot} have it with her Majesty's Consent , they will have it , tho' it make our Hearts to ake , as you say in your Book . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.420) And whereas her Majesty hath Revenue belonging to her Crown out of the Church-Livings and Cathedral Churches , these Men would have her Majesty give unto those Revenues , for the Maintenance of their Presbytery , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.421) and they would allow her a Stipend at their Discretions ; so that they would bring the Queen and Crown under their Girdles . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.422) And some of these men have gone so far , that they say plainly we have no Church , no Sacrament , no Ministers , nor any Worship of God amongst us . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.423) If these things be not look'd unto in time , what Confusion shall we have in this Land shortly ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.424) Many other things he spake against the Cause of Reformation , which I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} particularly lay down ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.425) but this is in effect the Substance of it : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.426) concluding , he said , Thus much , Mr. Udall , have your Speeches enforced me to speak , lest the People here present being deceived should be carried away by it . To which Mr. Udall answered briefly : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.427) Udall . My Lords , it is bootless for my to enter Disputation with you in this place touching this matter ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.428) only this I could wish you , to leave it to be first decided by the learned Divines , to whose Calling it belongeth . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.429) And altho' some weak Men wanting judgment have been headily carried in seeking the Furtherance of this Cause , and so for want of this Government have run into some Errors : yet it is no reason to charge us with them ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.430) for your Lordships know , that we have been the men that have taken the greatest pains to reclaim them to the joining of themselves with the Church , from which they have separated themselves . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.431) Judge Clarke . You are deceived ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.432) it is not a matter of Divinity only , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.433) but it is a matter of State , and within the compass of our Profession ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.434) and it is no so greatly in controversy , as you would have us to believe it is . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.435) Udall . It is diversly debated my Lords , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.436) and the greatest number of learned Men in Christendom do maintain the same . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.437) Judge . How do you know that ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.438) Have you been beyond the Seas to know the greatest number of learned Men to be of this Judgment ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.439) Udall . Your Lordships know , that all the Churches of France , the Low-Countries , and of Scotland , do maintain the same , besides many hundred of learned Men in this Land . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.440) Judge . Have you been in all these Churches , that you can tell so much ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.441) Udall . I know it to be true my Lords , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.442) for their Practice doth shew them to be of this Judgment . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.443) Judge . Well , if you can alledge no more , neither will submit your self to the Queen's Mercy , then hear your Judgment . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,177.444) Udall . My Lords , I was beginning to speak , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.446) but you interrupted me ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.447) I pray you hear me what I will say , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.448) and then do as God shall move you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.449) Judge . Let us hear what you will say . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.450) Udall . As I said before , so I say now , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.451) I believe the Cause to be the undoubted Truth of God ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.452) and therefore in the Matter , I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} by any means yield : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.453) yet seeing , by your order of Law , I am found to be guilty , neither can I for the Reverence I bear to her Majesty's Laws take any Exceptions against you nor the Jury ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.454) but that which you have done , I acknowledge to be done in all Equity and Right . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.455) Seeing , I say , you have found me to be guilty , whereby I $can $not {TEXT:cannot} live without her Majesty's gracious and special Favour , I acknowledge , that whatsoever I have done to the advancement of the Cause , I may offend in the Manner ; in which respect if I have offended seeing it hath pleased your Lordships and the Jury to find me guilty , I do willingly submit my self , and heartily crave her Majesty's Pardon . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.456) Judge . But you are sorry that you have offended the Queen's Majesty ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.457) Udall . I am sorry that the Course of the Law hath found me to have offended . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.458) Judge . So is every Thief that is condemned sorry , that his Offence is found out , but not for the Fact . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.459) This is a plain Fallacy . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.460) Udall {TEXT:Judge} . My Lord , indeed if it were so as your Lordship doth understand it , it were a plain Fallacy ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.461) but I say farther , if in the Manner of handling so good a Cause , there be found in me any Offence against her Majesty's Laws , I acknowledge , that in the Manner of handling it , her Majesty may be justly offended , for which I am sorry . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.462) And I protest that I have never gone about to advance it by any other means , than by manifesting it to all Men , and tendering it to them in Authority ; and that by such means as might not be contrary to the Laws of this Land , that so it might be received by her Majesty and the State : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.463) and this is the Care of us all , howsoever we be charged with Factions . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.464) Judge . You say , if there be found any Offence ; whereby you call in question the Equity of dealing in this Court against you . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.465) Udall . My Lords , I do not , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.466) neither will I ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.467) let it be looked into by you and the rest whom it concerneth , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.468) I hope you would not deal otherwise than lawfully against me . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.469) Judge Puck. You say , you seek no unlawful Means : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.470) What can it be meant but unlawful Means in the words of your Book ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.471) If it come in by that Means that will make all your Hearts to ake , blame your selves . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.472) What good Means can be meant by these Words ? (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.473) Udall . My Lords , yesterday I shewed you what I took to be the meaning of the Author in some places of the Book alledged against me in the Indictment ; (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.474) and then I would have spoken unto all , (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.475) but you cut me off : (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.476) I pray you now therefore let me shew the Meaning of the Author in those Words now . (JUDALL-E2-P2,1,178.477)