5 1 1 10 1 1 h 11 he`d have had ^people to be . n/ice to him# / 5 1 1 20 1 1 h 11 to ^show him r/ound# . / 5 1 1 30 1 2 h 11 if he`d been ^introduced :properly and decently to / 5 1 1 30 1 1 h 11 :army l/ife# / 5 1 1 40 1 2 h 11 he would "^not have been followed by . :press / 5 1 1 40 1 1 h 11 photographers and :press rep\orters# - / 5 1 1 50 1 1 h 11 the ^second f\eature# - / 5 1 1 60 1 1 h 11 which ^I think is depl\/orable# / 5 1 1 70 1 2 h 11 is the ^kind of :savage :way we :feel about this / 5 1 1 70 1 1 h 11 :wretched m\an# - / 5 1 1 80 1 2 h 11 his ^mother de:scribes him as a . :chap who`s been / 5 1 1 80 1 1 h 11 neur:otic ever since he was a :child of tw/o# . / 5 1 1 90 1 3 h 11 he ^suddenly finds that he`s :got this / 5 1 1 90 1 2 h 11 extra:ordinary . :incapacity of being :able to / 5 1 1 90 1 1 h 11 :sing in a :normal v\oice# / 5 1 1 100 1 2 h 11 ((but)) ^making this awful sort of :high fal:setto / 5 1 1 100 1 1 h 11 th\ing# / 5 1 1 110 1 1 h 11 with ^full echo \on# - / 5 1 1 120 1 1 h 11 which ^sends :teenagers cr/azy# - / 5 1 1 130 1 1 h 11 he ^suddenly f\inds# / 5 1 1 140 1 1 h 11 in^stead of earning :five or six quid a w/eek# . / 5 1 1 150 1 1 h 11 in a ^f/actory# . / 5 1 1 160 1 2 h 11 he is ^earning :three hundred and fifty or :five / 5 1 1 160 1 1 h 11 hundred :quid a w/eek# / 5 1 2 170 1 1 h 11 ((or)) what^ever it /is# - / 5 1 2 180 1 2 h 11 he ^suddenly finds he is :due to be :called up in / 5 1 2 180 1 1 h 11 the /army# / 5 1 2 190 1 1 h 11 after a ^lot of tr/oubles# / 5 1 2 200 1 1 h 11 be^f/orehand# - / 5 1 2 210 1 1 h 11 [@] he`s he ^doesn`t get /out of it# / 5 1 2 220 1 1 h 11 I should ex^pect he c\ould have got /out of it# / 5 1 2 230 1 1 h 11 but he ^d\oesn`t# . / 5 1 2 240 1 1 h 11 he ^gets into the /army# / 5 1 2 250 1 1 h 11 he ^makes up his mind to make a sh/ow of it# - / 5 1 2 260 1 2 h 11 and . he ^even employs a . :ex-soldier to :tell him/ 5 1 2 260 1 1 h 11 what the army is l\ike# / 5 1 2 270 1 1 h 11 ^f=irst# . / 5 1 2 280 1 1 h 11 the ^poor chap comes al/ong# . / 5 1 2 290 1 1 h 11 ^f\ollowed by the pr/ess# . / 5 1 2 300 1 1 h 11 he ^f=ails# . / 5 1 2 310 1 1 h 11 ^out he g\oes# . / 5 1 2 320 1 1 h 11 and the ^second deplorable thing ab/out it# - / 5 1 2 330 1 1 h 11 ^is the f\act# . / 5 1 2 340 1 1 h 11 ^that . :th/is ch\ap# . / 5 1 2 350 1 1 h 11 a ^neur:\otic# - / 5 1 2 360 1 1 h 11 his ^mother calls him a neur/otic# / 5 1 2 370 1 1 h 11 from the ^age of tw/o# . / 5 1 3 380 1 2 h 11 who ^can`t stick in the army for :twenty-four / 5 1 3 380 1 1 h 11 h/ours# / 5 1 3 390 1 1 h 11 is the ^kind of p/erson# / 5 1 3 400 1 1 h 11 who is ^made a public idol of the :d\ay# - / 5 1 3 410 1 1 h 11 I`m ^s/orry for the _chap# / 5 1 3 420 1 1 h 11 I`m ^sure he`s a . ":jolly decent ch\ap# / 5 1 3 430 1 1 h 11 but . ^r/\eally# . / 5 1 3 440 1 2 h 12 ^should he "^is that the kind of man to have as a / 5 1 3 440 1 1 h 12 :public \idol# . / 5 1 3 450 1 1 h 11 of ^t/eenagers# / 5 1 3 460 1 1 h 11 of ^m/ums# / 5 1 3 470 1 1 h 11 at the . ^s/ink# / 5 1 3 480 1 1 h 11 and ^anything \else# - / 5 1 3 490 1 1 h 11 and and the ^third deplorable thing ab/out it# / 5 1 3 500 1 1 h 11 is my ^own !feelings about th\is# - / 5 1 3 510 1 1 h 11 there`s ^something that makes us feel s\avage# / 5 1 3 520 1 1 h 11 a^bout these rock and roll s\ingers# . / 5 1 3 530 1 1 h 11 and ^I hate it :in mys/elf# / 5 1 3 540 1 1 h 11 and I ^see it in a :lot of other ":p\eople# - / 5 1 3 550 1 1 h 11 now it`s ^only about a :year a:g\/o# - / 5 1 3 560 1 1 h 11 that . ^on this pr/ogramme# . / 5 1 3 570 1 2 h 11 ^we were asked about I :think it was :Tommy / 5 1 3 570 1 1 h 11 St\eele# / 5 1 4 580 1 1 h 11 being ^m\obbed# / 5 1 4 590 1 2 h 11 and ^I remember making some :perfectly :h\orrible / 5 1 4 590 1 1 h 11 rem/arks# / 5 1 4 600 1 1 h 11 and saying ^w/ell# . / 5 1 4 610 1 1 h 11 they`re the ^occupational h/azards# / 5 1 4 620 1 1 h 11 of ^being a rock and roll s/inger# / 5 1 4 630 1 1 h 11 and he de^served what he g\ot# / 5 1 4 640 1 2 h 11 and ((he [w@])) he ^must be a horrible man to :make/ 5 1 4 640 1 1 h 11 this :horrible :n\oise# / 5 1 4 650 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 4 660 1 1(h 11 ^w/ell# - / 5 1 4 670 1 2 h 11 I ^now ((I)) know that :I was com:pletely / 5 1 4 670 1 1 h 11 "wr\ong# . / 5 1 4 680 1 2 h 11 I ^know [?] :quite a lot of people who kn\ow Tommy / 5 1 4 680 1 1 h 11 St/eele# / 5 1 4 690 1 1 h 11 who`ve ^/acted with him# / 5 1 4 700 1 1 h 11 who`ve ^met him in the course of his prof/ession# / 5 1 4 710 1 1 h 11 I`m ^told he`s an absolutely "gr\and chap# - / 5 1 4 720 1 1 h 11 I ^st\ill# . / 5 1 4 730 1 1 h 11 "^hate . the :s\ound he m/akes# . / 5 1 4 740 1 2 h 11 when he ^sings down that thing with the :echo / 5 1 4 740 1 1 h 11 turned /on# . / 5 1 5 750 1 1 h 11 ((and)) ^stereophonic and all the r/est# - / 5 1 5 760 1 1 h 11 but ^what I hate [s] . :still m/ore# . / 5 1 5 770 1 1 h 11 is I ^hate the feelings in mys\elf# . / 5 1 5 780 1 2 h 11 and there`s ^something very !f\unny about this / 5 1 5 780 1 1 h 11 'rock and roll b/usiness# - / 5 1 5 790 1 1 h 11 and this ^teenage squealing ab/out it# . / 5 1 5 800 1 2 h 11 that ^raises these savage feelings in our ordinary / 5 1 5 800 1 1 h 11 . :decent br\easts# / 5 1 5 810 1 1 f 11 (laughs) ^Ted L\eather# / 5 1 5 820 1 1 tl 11 well I ^guess my :ordinary :decent :br\/east# / 5 1 5 830 1 1 tl 11 is a ^little :different than R\obert`s# / 5 1 5 840 1 1 ? 11 I ^bet it \is# / 5 1 5 850 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 5 860 1 1 f 11 ^fair en/ough# / 5 1 5 870 1 1 tl 11 ^n\o# / 5 1 5 880 1 2 tl 12 ^I I [@] - I [th] . I ^I won`t have :rock and roll / 5 1 5 880 1 1 tl 12 att\acked# / 5 1 6 890 1 3 tl 11 ^I think a :healthy . ex!uberant ex:pression of / 5 1 6 890 1 2 tl 11 :energy and :noise for :young people`s a / 5 1 6 890 1 1 tl 11 :thoroughly good th\ing# - / 5 1 6 900 1 1 tl 11 [@:m] - we were ^asked what our v\iews were# / 5 1 6 910 1 1 tl 11 I would ^say :quite tr\/uthfully# / 5 1 6 920 1 1 tl 11 until ^two minutes ag/o# / 5 1 6 930 1 1 tl 11 I ^didn`t "h\ave any# - - - / 5 1 6 940 1 2 tl 12 ^I think . you know . :really [dhi:] . you you / 5 1 6 940 1 1 tl 12 ^can`t :blame the indi:vidual in this c/ase# / 5 1 6 950 1 1 tl 11 this is a "^problem of our :modern "pr\ess# - / 5 1 6 960 1 1 tl 11 I ^think the people to ":bl\ame h/ere# / 5 1 6 970 1 1 tl 11 are ^not this un:fortunate young m\/an# - / 5 1 6 980 1 3 tl 11 [@] ^nor in:deed . some un:fortunate commanding / 5 1 6 980 1 2 tl 11 :officer who :suddenly :found him on his / 5 1 6 980 1 1 tl 11 d\oorst/ep# - / 5 1 6 990 1 2 tl 11 and ^probably hadn`t the :foggiest idea what he was/ 5 1 6 990 1 1 tl 11 :\in for# - / 5 1 6 1000 1 1 tl 11 [@] but ^this - :s\erious s/ide of it# / 5 1 7 1010 1 1 tl 11 ^\I would t/ake# / 5 1 7 1020 1 1 tl 11 is an^\other c/ase# - / 5 1 7 1030 1 2 tl 11 where [dhi:] "^hounds and ":vultures of :Fl\eet / 5 1 7 1030 1 1 tl 11 Str/eet# - / 5 1 7 1040 1 2 tl 11 ^seem to :feel that they have some - - ":given / 5 1 7 1040 1 1 tl 11 :d\/uty# / 5 1 7 1050 1 2 tl 11 to ^pry into the most ":private . "!section of / 5 1 7 1050 1 1 tl 11 :everybody`s l/ives# / 5 1 7 1060 1 1 tl 11 and ^blur it all in the :pr\ess# - / 5 1 7 1070 1 1 tl 11 ^I put the :blame on :Fl\eet Street# / 5 1 7 1080 1 1 f 11 [@:] ^Bill M\allalieu# / 5 1 7 1090 1 1 m 11 the ^blame on Fl\eet Street# - / 5 1 7 1100 1 2 m 11 [@] it ^seem((ed)) to me that :Fleet Street was [@ / 5 1 7 1100 1 1 m 11 @] at the :start was :doing a good j\ob# . / 5 1 7 1110 1 2 m 11 by ^giving [dhi:] . pub:licity they :did to [@ . @]/ 5 1 7 1110 1 1 m 11 to [@] . T D/ean# . / 5 1 7 1120 1 1 m 11 [@] in his [@m] . ^entrance into the :\army# - / 5 1 7 1130 1 1 m 11 ^anything that makes the :army attr/active# . / 5 1 7 1140 1 1 m 11 [@] is de^sirable and a good th\ing# / 5 1 8 1150 1 1 m 11 and I ^say that as a :n\avy man# / 5 1 8 1160 1 1 aud 20 (noise laughter) / 5 1 8 1170 1 1 ? 11 does ^Dean make the army attr/active# / 5 1 8 1180 1 2 tl 11 ^I think [dhi] . that Mr Dean :d\oes _make the / 5 1 8 1180 1 1 tl 11 _army at_tractive# / 5 1 8 1190 1 1 tl 11 or . there was a ^possibility he m/ight# . / 5 1 8 1200 1 2 tl 11 [@] ^for . the people who are going to be :called / 5 1 8 1200 1 1 tl 11 /up# / 5 1 8 1210 1 1 tl 11 which is ^not you and m\e# - - / 5 1 8 1220 1 2 tl 11 the ^trouble is :that . publicity has come / 5 1 8 1220 1 1 tl 11 unst\uck# - / 5 1 8 1230 1 1 tl 11 now I ^think beh\ind this qu/estion# / 5 1 8 1240 1 1 tl 11 ^is [dh@] . an:\other _thing# / 5 1 8 1250 1 1 tl 12 and ^not the pub^l/icity# . / 5 1 8 1260 1 3 tl 11 is it ^fair that a :man who`s a . a :boy who`s / 5 1 8 1260 1 2 tl 11 :earning :three hundred and fifty pounds a . a / 5 1 8 1260 1 1 tl 11 w/eek# . / 5 1 8 1270 1 1 tl 11 [@] should be ^let out of the /army# / 5 1 8 1280 1 1 tl 11 as he is ^likely to b/e# . / 5 1 8 1290 1 1 tl 11 in ^such a short t=ime# / 5 1 8 1300 1 1 tl 11 when the ^rest of us :have to go thr\ough it# - / 5 1 9 1310 1 1 tl 11 and ^on th/at# / 5 1 9 1320 1 1 tl 11 ^I would . simply :say th\is# . / 5 1 9 1330 1 1 tl 11 that ^in that particular r/egiment# / 5 1 9 1340 1 1 tl 11 I re^member a b/oy# . / 5 1 9 1350 1 2 tl 11 who was [@m] - ^unable to [@] . :move his . :right / 5 1 9 1350 1 1 tl 11 leg with:out his . :right arm moving :t\oo# / 5 1 9 1360 1 1 tl 11 so he ^couldn`t m\arch# - / 5 1 9 1370 1 1 tl 11 he was . il^l\iterate# . / 5 1 9 1380 1 1 tl 11 [@] so he was ^no use in the :\office# - / 5 1 9 1390 1 1 tl 11 [@] ^if he closed ":one /eye# . / 5 1 9 1400 1 1 tl 11 he ^had to close "tw\o# / 5 1 9 1410 1 1 tl 11 so he ^couldn`t sh\oot# - / 5 1 9 1420 1 1 tl 11 and the ^army instead of :letting him :g\/o# . / 5 1 9 1430 1 1 tl 11 per^sisted with their . :tactful m/ethods# / 5 1 9 1440 1 1 tl 11 in ^making him into a "!s\oldier# . / 5 1 9 1450 1 1 tl 11 and it was ^only when he :stabbed ((a)) s/ergeant# / 5 1 9 1460 1 1 tl 11 that they ^let him g\o# / 5 1 9 1470 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 9 1480 1 2 f 11 and I sup^pose inci:dentally became very :popular / 5 1 9 1480 1 1 f 11 with the :other :r\anks# / 5 1 10 1490 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 10 1500 1 1 m 11 he`s in a ^mental home n\ow# / 5 1 10 1510 1 1 f 11 ^Jack L\ongland# / 5 1 10 1520 1 1 jl 11 well I ^don`t think you can . blame the pr/ess# / 5 1 10 1530 1 1 jl 11 with^out being a bit pr/iggish# / 5 1 10 1540 1 1 jl 11 I mean ^they`re . :after the n/ews# / 5 1 10 1550 1 1 jl 11 and . ^Terry Dean . ":is n/ews# / 5 1 10 1560 1 1 jl 11 [@ @] and ^that`s what they`re th\ere for# / 5 1 10 1570 1 1 jl 11 "^I think :probably the :villain ((in)) the p/iece#/ 5 1 10 1580 1 2 jl 11 is ^some . al:leged :shrinking violet of a civil / 5 1 10 1580 1 1 jl 11 :servant in [dhi] . W\ar /Office# / 5 1 10 1590 1 2 jl 11 who ^suddenly found for the :first time in his / 5 1 10 1590 1 1 jl 11 l/ife# / 5 1 10 1600 1 1 jl 11 that ^somebody`d taken some :notice /of him# . / 5 1 10 1610 1 2 jl 11 the ^press had rung him up :right left and / 5 1 10 1610 1 1 jl 11 c/entre# . / 5 1 10 1620 1 1 jl 11 and ^there he w/as# / 5 1 11 1630 1 2 jl 11 ^like :so many [a @ e] . :nearly all the r/est of / 5 1 11 1630 1 1 jl 11 us# . / 5 1 11 1640 1 1 jl 11 ^finding himself in the l/imelight# / 5 1 11 1650 1 1 jl 11 [n . @ @] and ^l/iking it# . / 5 1 11 1660 1 1 jl 11 and ^so giving this un:fortunate b/oy# / 5 1 11 1670 1 1 jl 11 and I a^gree with :Robert h/ere# . / 5 1 11 1680 1 1 jl 11 a a pub^licity which . :pr\/obably# / 5 1 11 1690 1 1 jl 11 ^even :he would have been :quite glad to av\oid# . / 5 1 11 1700 1 1 jl 11 what I`d ^also like to kn\ow /is# . / 5 1 11 1710 1 1 jl 11 ^how . :Robert Hen:r\iqu/es# . / 5 1 11 1720 1 1 jl 11 if he ^were a com:manding officer :n\/ow# - / 5 1 11 1730 1 1 jl 11 ^would :m\anage to keep the press 'out# . / 5 1 11 1740 1 2 jl 11 after all they`ll ^turn up in :sergeant`s / 5 1 11 1740 1 1 jl 11 str/ipes# . / 5 1 11 1750 1 2 jl 11 ^or they`ll be :wearing a :green uniform with a / 5 1 11 1750 1 1 jl 11 :shortened sk/irt# . / 5 1 11 1760 1 2 jl 11 ^I bet you ":couldn`t keep `em :out at \all / 5 1 11 1760 1 1 jl 11 Robert# . / 5 1 11 1770 1 1 jl 11 the ^only :other th/ing# / 5 1 11 1780 1 1 jl 11 which . ^really . :slightly al/arms me# . / 5 1 12 1790 1 2 jl 11 [@] ^we . ap:parently are :not going to keep Terry / 5 1 12 1790 1 1 jl 11 :Dean . :in the British /Army# / 5 1 12 1800 1 2 jl 11 which . ^may be a good :thing for the ef:ficiency / 5 1 12 1800 1 1 jl 11 of the British /Army# / 5 1 12 1810 1 1 jl 11 I ^wouldn`t kn/ow# / 5 1 12 1820 1 1 jl 11 but ^quite p/ossibly# / 5 1 12 1830 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 12 1840 1 2 jl 11 ^but . the :really :shocking and :frightening / 5 1 12 1840 1 1 jl 11 th/ought# / 5 1 12 1850 1 1 jl 11 is that . ^rifleman :Elvis :Pr\/esley# . / 5 1 12 1860 1 1 jl 11 is I ^g\/ather# / 5 1 12 1870 1 1 jl 11 ^doing . :really rather :well in the :US:A /army# ./ 5 1 12 1880 1 3 jl 11 a ^terrifying thought is that we`re :probably going/ 5 1 12 1880 1 2 jl 11 to be on the :same :s\ide as A'merica in the :next / 5 1 12 1880 1 1 jl 11 w/ar# / 5 1 12 1890 1 1 jl 11 and I ^don`t :like it at \all# / 5 1 12 1900 1 2 f 11 ^well I don`t think Terry Dean`s :come out too / 5 1 12 1900 1 1 f 11 :b\adly out of all th/is# . / 5 1 12 1910 1 1 f 11 there`s ^only \one thing# / 5 1 13 1920 1 1 f 11 ^\I would cavil ag/ainst# / 5 1 13 1930 1 1 f 11 and ^that is :calling him a s\inger# - / 5 1 13 1940 1 1 f 11 it`s "^not f\air# . / 5 1 13 1950 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# . / 5 1 13 1960 1 1 f 11 "^I`ve been a singer all my l\ife# / 5 1 13 1970 1 1 f 11 and it ^does it :isn`t r\ight _that# / 5 1 13 1980 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 13 1990 1 1 f 11 - "^I think we go on to the :next qu\estion# / 5 1 13 2000 1 1 f 20 from (name) / 5 1 13 2010 1 3 II 20 (what does the team think of the Croydon Council`s / 5 1 13 2010 1 2 II 20 plan to evict tenants whose joint incomes amount to/ 5 1 13 2010 1 1 II 20 over twenty pounds a week) / 5 1 13 2020 1 1 f 11 ^Bill M/allalieu# . / 5 1 13 2030 1 1 f 11 ^any id/eas# / 5 1 13 2040 1 1 m 11 ^I think it`s a :thoroughly ":b\ad# / 5 1 13 2050 1 1 m 11 ^pl\an# - / 5 1 13 2060 1 1 m 11 ^this particular pl/an# / 5 1 13 2070 1 2 m 11 ^doesn`t raise [dhi:] :question of :differential / 5 1 13 2070 1 1 m 11 r\ates# . / 5 1 13 2080 1 1 m 11 on ^which we [k] :we could \argue# - / 5 1 13 2090 1 1 m 11 it ^raises [@] . :[def@] :differential r\ents# - / 5 1 14 2100 1 1 m 11 it ^raises something \else# - / 5 1 14 2110 1 1 m 11 it ^raises the :old id/ea# / 5 1 14 2120 1 1 m 11 that [@] - "^housing est/ates# . / 5 1 14 2130 1 1 m 11 "^should be [@ - @] :l\/imited# . / 5 1 14 2140 1 1 m 11 to ^people of a ":certain "\income# - / 5 1 14 2150 1 1 m 11 it`s an ^argument for . :segreg\ation# - / 5 1 14 2160 1 1 m 11 ^segregating the p/oor# / 5 1 14 2170 1 1 m 11 from [dhi:] . ^reasonably well-to-d/o# . / 5 1 14 2180 1 1 m 11 from the ^r\ich# . / 5 1 14 2190 1 1 m 11 it`s a "^modern con:c\eption# - / 5 1 14 2200 1 1 m 11 the ^old id/ea# / 5 1 14 2210 1 1 m 11 was to ^build a v\illage# - / 5 1 14 2220 1 1 m 11 a ^v/illage# / 5 1 14 2230 1 1 m 11 where ^/everybody# / 5 1 14 2240 1 1 m 11 whether they were ^rich or p/oor# . / 5 1 14 2250 1 1 m 11 ^lived as :n\eighbours# - / 5 1 14 2260 1 1 m 11 a ^village with a comm\unity# - / 5 1 14 2270 1 1 m 11 ^this is . :segreg\ation# - / 5 1 14 2280 1 1 m 11 ^this is s/omething# / 5 1 14 2290 1 1 m 11 that ^we con:d\emn# / 5 1 14 2300 1 1 m 11 in ^South /Africa# / 5 1 14 2310 1 1 m 11 when it ^comes to r\aces# - / 5 1 14 2320 1 1 m 11 we ^ought to cond/emn it# / 5 1 14 2330 1 1 m 11 ^here in Br/itain# . / 5 1 14 2340 1 1 m 11 when it ^comes to \incomes# - / 5 1 15 2350 1 1 m 11 ^you and I and "\all of /us# / 5 1 15 2360 1 1 m 11 are ^human b/eings# / 5 1 15 2370 1 1 m 11 we`re ^born in the same c/ountry# . / 5 1 15 2380 1 1 m 11 [w@] we ^are tog/ether# . / 5 1 15 2390 1 1 m 11 ^we are n\eighbours# . / 5 1 15 2400 1 1 m 11 ^don`t let`s have some ":st\upid# / 5 1 15 2410 1 1 m 11 ^c\ouncil# . / 5 1 15 2420 1 1 m 11 ^making a r/ule# . / 5 1 15 2430 1 1 m 11 that ^sets us ":more ap/art# . / 5 1 15 2440 1 1 m 11 than we ^have to b\e# / 5 1 15 2450 1 1 f 11 ^Robert Henr/iques# / 5 1 15 2460 2 1 h 21 well ^I think that`s a / 5 1 15 2470 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 1 15 2460 1 1(h 11 - :absolute . and com:plete . n\onsense# / 5 1 15 2480 1 1 h 11 on the ^part of M\allalieu# - / 5 1 15 2490 1 1 h 11 ((to)) ^make :any kind of com:p\arison# / 5 1 15 2500 1 2 h 11 between a ^council :housing estate and a :village / 5 1 15 2500 1 1 h 11 comm\unity# . / 5 1 15 2510 1 1 h 11 in the ^first place a :village comm/unity# / 5 1 15 2520 1 1 h 11 has ^houses of all sorts of different s/izes# / 5 1 15 2530 1 1 h 11 for ^people of all sorts of different k/inds# / 5 1 16 2540 1 1 h 11 *and ^all sorts of different \incomes#* / 5 1 16 2550 1 2 m 11 *which is ex"^actly what a :housing* estate ought / 5 1 16 2550 1 1 m 11 to b\e# / 5 1 16 2560 1 1 h 11 well ^no housing estate in Britain \/is# . / 5 1 16 2570 1 1 h 11 *((so)) ^let`s deal* with the :facts :w\ell# / 5 1 16 2580 1 1 h 11 it ^m\ight# / 5 1 16 2590 2 1 h 21 it / 5 1 16 2600 1 1 m 11 *it "^could b\e#* / 5 1 16 2590 1 1(h 11 ^\ought to be# / 5 1 16 2610 1 1 h 11 all ^r\ight# / 5 1 16 2620 2 1 h 21 +but ^let`s deal with the facts+ / 5 1 16 2630 1 1 m 20 +((not in Croydon))+ / 5 1 16 2620 1 1(h 11 of what :Croydon /is# / 5 1 16 2640 1 1 h 11 and ^what every :\other housing est/ate is# / 5 1 16 2650 1 1 h 11 ^round :here or :round :everywhere :\else# - / 5 1 16 2660 1 1 h 11 ^everybody :\in a housing est/ate# / 5 1 16 2670 1 1 h 11 is ^made alike by :one f\actor# / 5 1 16 2680 1 1 h 11 and ^like it or not it :is a :f\act# - / 5 1 17 2690 1 1 h 11 ^that they are l/iving# / 5 1 17 2700 1 1 h 11 up^on the ch/arity# / 5 1 17 2710 1 1 h 11 of the com^m\unity# . / 5 1 17 2720 1 1 h 11 their ^houses are s/ubsidized# . / 5 1 17 2730 1 3 h 11 the ^economic :rent of a :housing estate is I / 5 1 17 2730 1 2 h 11 sup:pose somewhere between :two and three pounds a / 5 1 17 2730 1 1 h 11 w/eek# / 5 1 17 2740 1 1 h 11 ac^cording to the h/ouse# - / 5 1 17 2750 1 2 h 11 and . ^all the difference be:tween what the man / 5 1 17 2750 1 1 h 11 "!is p/aying# . / 5 1 17 2760 1 1 h 11 ^and that :economic r/ent# . / 5 1 17 2770 1 1 h 11 ^is being paid :by the comm/unity# . / 5 1 17 2780 1 1 h 11 ^by the other r/atepayers# / 5 1 17 2790 1 1 h 11 by the ^taxp\ayer# / 5 1 17 2800 1 1 h 11 ^th\erefore# . / 5 1 17 2810 1 1 h 11 ^people in :h=ousing estates# . / 5 1 17 2820 1 2 h 11 are . ^living on the :charity :of their / 5 1 17 2820 1 1 h 11 n\eighbours# / 5 1 17 2830 1 1 h 11 ^whether they :like it or n/ot# / 5 1 17 2840 1 1 h 11 they ^can`t h\elp it# - / 5 1 17 2850 1 2 h 11 ^now - I !do not agree with e:victing these / 5 1 17 2850 1 1 h 11 p\eople# . / 5 1 17 2860 1 1 h 11 in ^any circumstances what/ever# / 5 1 18 2870 1 1 h 11 e^viction is cr/uel# / 5 1 18 2880 1 1 h 11 un^k/ind# / 5 1 18 2890 1 1 h 11 and there is "^no excuse for inhu:m\anity# / 5 1 18 2900 1 1 h 11 ^whatso\ever# . / 5 1 18 2910 1 2 h 11 but I "^do agree with :making them pay an :economic/ 5 1 18 2910 1 1 h 11 r/ent# . / 5 1 18 2920 1 1 h 11 and I ^do agr/ee# . / 5 1 18 2930 1 2 h 11 with ^everybody . having to :p\ay an economic / 5 1 18 2930 1 1 h 11 'rent# . / 5 1 18 2940 1 1 h 11 for ^houses which are :put up by the g/overnment# ./ 5 1 18 2950 1 1 h 11 un^less they can pr/ove# / 5 1 18 2960 1 1 h 11 that they ^can`t aff/ord to# . / 5 1 18 2970 1 1 h 11 un^less they can :prove a case of h\ardship# . / 5 1 18 2980 1 1 h 11 I ^don`t mind if you shout :m/eans _test# / 5 1 18 2990 1 1 h 11 I ^don`t see why we sh\ouldn`t# . / 5 1 18 3000 1 2 h 11 I ^don`t see why :people should get . :cheap / 5 1 18 3000 1 1 h 11 h/ousing# / 5 1 18 3010 1 2 h 11 at [dhi] . with with ^people who`ve got :less money/ 5 1 18 3010 1 1 h 11 than them p/aying for it# . / 5 1 18 3020 1 1 h 11 un^less they can in :fact . prove w\ant# - / 5 1 18 3030 1 2 h 11 and ^therefore :whereas I ":thoroughly disagree / 5 1 18 3030 1 1 h 11 with this :Cr\oydon th/ing# / 5 1 19 3040 1 1 h 11 and it`s ^just in:h\uman to 'throw people /out# / 5 1 19 3050 1 1 h 11 and e^viction is a is a :b\ad# / 5 1 19 3060 1 1 h 11 and ^wr\ong thing /any_way# . / 5 1 19 3070 1 1 h 11 I would ^thoroughly a:gr\ee with Cr/oydon# / 5 1 19 3080 1 2 h 11 if they ^said that :everybody :over . :fifteen / 5 1 19 3080 1 1 h 11 pounds a w/eek# / 5 1 19 3090 1 1 h 11 will ^pay an :economic r/ent# . / 5 1 19 3100 1 1 h 11 and ^everybody over :twenty pounds a w/eek# / 5 1 19 3110 1 1 h 11 will [t@] ^pay ten bob a:b\ove an economic r/ent# ./ 5 1 19 3120 1 2 h 11 so ((that)) the ^r\ich people in c/ouncil / 5 1 19 3120 1 1 h 11 _houses# . / 5 1 19 3130 1 2 h 11 are the ^ones who are :subsidizing the :p\oor / 5 1 19 3130 1 1 h 11 people in :council h/ouses# . / 5 1 19 3140 1 2 h 11 and "^not the people who :aren`t living in council / 5 1 19 3140 1 1 h 11 houses at \all# / 5 1 19 3150 1 1 ? 21 which is ^not what :Cr\oydon is / 5 1 19 3160 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 1 20 3170 1 1 f 11 ^Ted L\eather# / 5 1 20 3180 1 2 tl 11 ^well we`ve :heard [dhi:] . :two contrary views / 5 1 20 3180 1 1 tl 11 most :forcefully "p\ut# . / 5 1 20 3190 1 1 tl 11 [@] ^I would a:gr\ee with Bill M/allalieu# / 5 1 20 3200 1 1 tl 11 en^t\/irely# / 5 1 20 3210 1 1 tl 11 that you ^don`t want segre:g\ation# . / 5 1 20 3220 1 2 tl 11 but of course ^Robert`s put his :finger !r\ight / 5 1 20 3220 1 1 tl 11 _on# . / 5 1 20 3230 1 1 tl 11 if I may ^s\ay _so# / 5 1 20 3240 1 1 tl 11 the ^flaw in that /argument# / 5 1 20 3250 1 1 tl 11 the ^problem of ":s\ubsidies# / 5 1 20 3260 1 1 tl 11 which ^alters the \argument# . / 5 1 20 3270 1 1 tl 11 but you ^kn\ow# / 5 1 20 3280 1 1 tl 11 with re^sp\ect# / 5 1 20 3290 1 1 tl 11 I ^don`t r\eally think# / 5 1 20 3300 1 1 tl 11 ^\any of us on this pl/atform# / 5 1 20 3310 1 1 tl 11 are ^c\/ompetent# / 5 1 20 3320 1 1 tl 11 to ^j\udge# - / 5 1 20 3330 1 1 tl 11 [a:] ^I don`t know pre:cisely ":what it /is# / 5 1 20 3340 1 1 tl 11 that this par^ticular :group of c/ouncillors# . / 5 1 20 3350 1 1 tl 11 ^in Cr/oydon# / 5 1 20 3360 1 1 tl 11 en^tirely on their own b/at# / 5 1 20 3370 1 2 tl 11 without ^reference to :anybody :else have de:cided / 5 1 20 3370 1 1 tl 11 to "!d\o# - / 5 1 21 3380 1 1 tl 11 [@] I ^just don`t bel\ieve# / 5 1 21 3390 1 1 tl 11 that it`s ^tr\ue# / 5 1 21 3400 1 2 tl 11 that they`re going to ^hurl everybody into the / 5 1 21 3400 1 1 tl 11 :street tom\orrow# . / 5 1 21 3410 1 1 tl 11 that ^clearly couldn`t be r\ight# / 5 1 21 3420 1 1 ? 11 ^six months` n\otice _they`re _giving _them# / 5 1 21 3430 1 1 ? 11 ^B/ill# / 5 1 21 3440 1 1(tl 11 ^six [man] are you :s/ure of _that# / 5 1 21 3450 1 1 tl 11 is ^that what it says in the p/aper# / 5 1 21 3460 1 1 ? 11 ^y/es# / 5 1 21 3470 1 1 ? 11 I ^th\ink s/o# / 5 1 21 3480 1 1 ? 11 ^y\es# / 5 1 21 3490 1 1 tl 11 ^six months` n\otice# . / 5 1 21 3500 1 1 tl 11 ^w/ell# . / 5 1 21 3510 1 1 tl 11 a^g\ain# / 5 1 21 3520 1 2 tl 12 I ^don`t know [dh@ dh@] ^that would depend on :how / 5 1 21 3520 1 1 tl 12 many houses a:vailable there :are in :Cr\oydon# / 5 1 21 3530 1 1 tl 11 whether that`s ^fair or n\ot# . / 5 1 21 3540 1 1 tl 11 I ^don`t know th/at# / 5 1 21 3550 1 1 tl 11 and ^neither do \any of us# - / 5 1 21 3560 1 2 tl 11 ^but [dhi:] the ":principle ":surely of . ":people / 5 1 21 3560 1 1 tl 11 ":paying . :what they can afford to p/ay# / 5 1 22 3570 1 1 tl 11 an ^economic r=ent# . / 5 1 22 3580 1 1 tl 11 is "^surely ":r\ight# . / 5 1 22 3590 1 1 tl 11 and I ^w\ould have th/ought# / 5 1 22 3600 1 2 tl 11 as ^we`ve had here in ":Bristol for ":many / 5 1 22 3600 1 1 tl 11 y/ears# . / 5 1 22 3610 1 1 tl 11 a ^differential :r\ent# - / 5 1 22 3620 1 1 tl 11 because ^one of the great :pr\oblems# / 5 1 22 3630 1 1 tl 11 of of pro^v\iding# / 5 1 22 3640 1 1 tl 11 ^subsidized h/ousing# / 5 1 22 3650 1 1 tl 11 or ^subsidized anything :\else# - / 5 1 22 3660 1 2 tl 11 one of the ^great problems of the :Welfare !St\ate / 5 1 22 3660 1 1 tl 11 _is# - / 5 1 22 3670 1 1 tl 11 that we tax ourselves up to the ^h\ilt# / 5 1 22 3680 1 2 tl 11 to [pr@] to pro^vide benefits . :quite / 5 1 22 3680 1 1 tl 11 indis:cr\iminately# / 5 1 22 3690 1 1 tl 11 for ^those who n/eed# / 5 1 22 3700 1 1 tl 11 ^and those who :d\on`t n/eed# - / 5 1 22 3710 1 2 tl 11 ^with the result that the :whole benefit is :spread/ 5 1 22 3710 1 1 tl 11 so ":thinly over the comm\/unity# . / 5 1 22 3720 1 1 tl 11 you ^can`t !r\eally do en/ough# / 5 1 22 3730 1 1 tl 11 for ^those who :really "!\are in _need# . / 5 1 22 3740 1 2 tl 11 and ^housing :subsidies is a :classical example / 5 1 22 3740 1 1 tl 11 :\of _that# / 5 1 23 3750 1 1 f 11 ^Jack L/ongland# / 5 1 23 3760 1 1 jl 11 well I ^d\on`t really know enough ab/out this# / 5 1 23 3770 1 1 jl 11 ^Fr/eddy# / 5 1 23 3780 1 2 jl 11 [@:m] though I . [@] ^don`t [@ @ @] as :T\ed has / 5 1 23 3780 1 1 jl 11 _said# / 5 1 23 3790 1 2 jl 11 one ^doesn`t know enough about the :motives of / 5 1 23 3790 1 1 jl 11 [dhi:] :Croydon C/ouncil# . / 5 1 23 3800 1 2 jl 11 on the ^other hand I . I :find it a bit / 5 1 23 3800 1 1 jl 11 surpr\/ising# . / 5 1 23 3810 1 2 jl 11 [@m] . if ^they have :average size :f\amilies in / 5 1 23 3810 1 1 jl 11 Cr/oydon# . / 5 1 23 3820 1 1 jl 11 [@] . un^less they`ve built :very :f\ew h/ouses# / 5 1 23 3830 1 2 jl 11 ^I should have thought they`d be :throwing out an / 5 1 23 3830 1 1 jl 11 :awful lot of !ch\aps# . / 5 1 23 3840 1 1 jl 11 I re^member my friend George Br/own# / 5 1 23 3850 1 1 jl 11 ^talking to a :miners . /audience# . / 5 1 23 3860 1 1 jl 11 in ^D/erbyshire# / 5 1 23 3870 1 1 jl 11 ad^mittedly :two or three years ag/o# . / 5 1 24 3880 1 2 jl 11 ^when [@] :miners were working :more shifts than / 5 1 24 3880 1 1 jl 11 they`re :\able to at the m/oment# . / 5 1 24 3890 1 2 jl 11 ^and [wi] ad:dressing a [mai @] . a :miners / 5 1 24 3890 1 1 jl 11 audience :largely of face working m\/iners# / 5 1 24 3900 1 1 jl 11 he ^said to them . :you and \/I# / 5 1 24 3910 1 1 jl 11 who are ^in [dhi] . :thousand a year cl\ass# . / 5 1 24 3920 1 1 jl 11 now I am ^terribly gl\/ad# / 5 1 24 3930 1 1 jl 11 that ^miners - face working m/iners# / 5 1 24 3940 1 1 jl 11 are ^getting something :like th\at# / 5 1 24 3950 1 1 jl 11 ^if there`s a m/an# . / 5 1 24 3960 1 1 jl 11 and his ^b\oy# . / 5 1 24 3970 1 1 jl 11 ^b\oth working in the same h/ouse# . / 5 1 24 3980 1 1 jl 11 ^th\ey`re in this cl/ass# / 5 1 24 3990 1 1 jl 11 quite ^\easily# . / 5 1 24 4000 1 1 jl 11 ^twenty pounds a w/eek# . / 5 1 24 4010 1 1 jl 11 ^and . a "!gr\eat many m/iners# / 5 1 24 4020 1 1 jl 11 and I`m ^glad about that t/oo# . / 5 1 24 4030 1 2 jl 11 ^are . inhabiting council houses :in in in in / 5 1 24 4030 1 1 jl 11 :D\erbyshire# . / 5 1 24 4040 1 2 jl 11 ^now . !I should have thought :this was a very / 5 1 24 4040 1 1 jl 11 curiously l\ow f/igure# / 5 1 25 4050 1 2 jl 11 I a^gree that there ought to be differential / 5 1 25 4050 1 1 jl 11 r/ents# - / 5 1 25 4060 1 1 jl 11 ^but [@] - I :don`t know how they`ve ar:r\ived# / 5 1 25 4070 1 1 jl 11 at ^this figure at :\all# . / 5 1 25 4080 1 1 jl 11 and e^viction is :obviously ":absolute !n\onsense# / 5 1 25 4090 1 2 jl 11 [@] and . ^though I don`t know much about the / 5 1 25 4090 1 1 jl 11 :Cr\oydon C/ouncil# / 5 1 25 4100 1 1 jl 11 I`m ^sure they`re :wrong about th\at# . / 5 1 25 4110 1 1 jl 11 I ^don`t see ":much /argument# / 5 1 25 4120 1 1 jl 11 ^mys\/elf# / 5 1 25 4130 1 1 jl 11 ^any l/onger [@]# / 5 1 25 4140 1 1 jl 11 a^gainst !differential r\ents# . / 5 1 25 4150 1 2 jl 11 but I ^do say that I`m very glad to know that a / 5 1 25 4150 1 1 jl 11 :great many . :working f\amilies# . / 5 1 25 4160 1 2 jl 11 in ^council houses :certainly in :our part of the / 5 1 25 4160 1 1 jl 11 w/orld# . / 5 1 25 4170 1 2 jl 11 par^ticularly if :two members of the :family are / 5 1 25 4170 1 1 jl 11 w/orking# . / 5 1 25 4180 1 2 jl 11 ^are . !in this twenty pound a :week class and / 5 1 25 4180 1 1 jl 11 :good l\uck to them# / 5 1 26 4190 1 1 f 11 ^Bill M/allalieu# / 5 1 26 4200 1 2 m 11 but you ^know . :this question . ":isn`t about / 5 1 26 4200 1 1 m 11 :differential rents at !\all# . / 5 1 26 4210 1 1 m 11 [@] ^Croydon "isn`t s\aying# . / 5 1 26 4220 1 1 m 11 ^if you`re earning :twenty pounds a w\eek# . / 5 1 26 4230 1 1 m 11 you must ^pay the :economic r\ent# . / 5 1 26 4240 1 1 m 11 ^what they`re saying /is# . / 5 1 26 4250 1 1 m 11 ((^if you`re earning twenty pounds)) a w/eek# / 5 1 26 4260 1 1 m 11 ^you must get !\out# . / 5 1 26 4270 1 1 m 11 there "^\is an _argument# / 5 1 26 4280 1 1 m 11 for ^differential r\ents# - / 5 1 26 4290 1 1 m 11 but there ^is "!n\o _argument for s/aying# / 5 1 26 4300 1 1 m 11 that . ^in a par:ticular loc/ality# . / 5 1 26 4310 1 1 m 11 ^nobody must :live h/ere# . / 5 1 26 4320 1 2 m 11 who is ^earning "!more than :twenty pounds a / 5 1 26 4320 1 1 m 11 :w\eek# / 5 1 26 4330 1 1 ? 11 ^hear h\ear# / 5 1 27 4340 1 1 m 11 "^that is . ":segreg\ation# / 5 1 27 4350 1 1 ? 11 ^hear h\ear# / 5 1 27 4360 1 3 f 11 ^well it seems to me a:part from those [@] . in / 5 1 27 4360 1 2 f 11 :spite of everything that`s been :said on the / 5 1 27 4360 1 1 f 11 pl/atform# / 5 1 27 4370 1 2 f 11 a^part from having a . a :Croydon !c\ouncillor on / 5 1 27 4370 1 1 f 11 the t/eam# . / 5 1 27 4380 1 2 f 11 we ^don`t really know :what`s in the back of their / 5 1 27 4380 1 1 f 11 :m\inds# . / 5 1 27 4390 1 2 f 21 [@] we((`ll)) ^go on to the :next question :from / 5 1 27 4390 1 1 f 21 (name) / 5 1 27 4400 1 4 II 20 (world-wide celebrations have recently taken place / 5 1 27 4400 1 3 II 20 in memory of the bicentenary of the birth of Robert/ 5 1 27 4400 1 2 II 20 Burns what English man or woman could be considered/ 5 1 27 4400 1 1 II 20 worthy of similar celebrations) / 5 1 27 4410 1 1 f 11 ^Jack !L\ongland# / 5 1 27 4420 1 1 jl 11 oh ^this is a gi!gantic . :confidence tr/ick# . / 5 1 28 4430 1 1 jl 11 ^played by the Sc\ots# / 5 1 28 4440 1 1 jl 11 on the ^English !n\ation# / 5 1 28 4450 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 28 4460 1 1(jl 11 ^don`t be taken in by it at :\all# - / 5 1 28 4470 1 1 jl 11 [@:m] . ^f\/irst# . / 5 1 28 4480 1 2 jl 11 [@] ^Robert Burns wrote . a :great deal of / 5 1 28 4480 1 1 jl 11 ex":tremely bad p\/oetry# . / 5 1 28 4490 1 2 jl 11 par^ticularly that that he wrote in :what he / 5 1 28 4490 1 1 jl 11 con:ceived to be \/English# . / 5 1 28 4500 1 1 jl 11 ^rather than in Lowland !d\ialect# . / 5 1 28 4510 1 1 jl 11 ^some of [dhi:] :L\owland dialect p/oems# / 5 1 28 4520 1 1 jl 11 are ^g\ood# / 5 1 28 4530 1 1 jl 11 but . he`s ^not . [@] a :first cl\ass# . / 5 1 28 4540 1 1 jl 11 ^major p\oet# / 5 1 28 4550 1 2 jl 12 in the ^way in which :every Burns Night we`re [hae]/ 5 1 28 4550 1 1 jl 12 ^having it :d\inned in# . / 5 1 28 4560 1 1 jl 11 by "^c\ountless _Scotsmen# / 5 1 28 4570 1 1 jl 11 that he ^/is# / 5 1 28 4580 1 1 jl 11 [it dh@] that`s ^simply un!tr\ue# . / 5 1 28 4590 1 1 jl 11 the "^p\oint about Robert B/urns# / 5 1 28 4600 1 1 jl 11 ^is that :he was . ":utterly :unl\ike# - / 5 1 28 4610 1 1 jl 11 the con^ventional \/image# . / 5 1 28 4620 1 1 jl 11 which the ^Scots have of thems\elves# . / 5 1 29 4630 1 1 jl 11 of ^d/our# / 5 1 29 4640 1 1 jl 11 and con^v/entional# / 5 1 29 4650 1 1 jl 11 and ^well beh/aved# / 5 1 29 4660 1 1 jl 11 and . ^m\oney-m/aking# . / 5 1 29 4670 1 1 jl 11 ^and re:sp\/ectable# . / 5 1 29 4680 1 1 jl 11 ^ch\aracters# . / 5 1 29 4690 1 2 jl 11 ^Robert Burns was ex:actly the :opposite of :all / 5 1 29 4690 1 1 jl 11 th/ose# . / 5 1 29 4700 1 1 jl 11 ^they worship him be:cause of th\at# / 5 1 29 4710 1 1 jl 11 ^not because of his p/oetry# . / 5 1 29 4720 1 2 jl 11 but be^cause he [ri] :represents :all their / 5 1 29 4720 1 1 jl 11 suppressed :y\earnings# . / 5 1 29 4730 1 1 jl 11 ^\anybody could prod/uce# / 5 1 29 4740 1 1 jl 11 at ^least !two test t\eams# / 5 1 29 4750 1 1 jl 11 of ^\English wr/iters# . / 5 1 29 4760 1 1 jl 11 who ^would be "!much better worth celebr/ating# . / 5 1 29 4770 1 1 jl 11 ^than B/urns# / 5 1 29 4780 1 2 jl 11 only be^cause we`re so :c\onstipated about / 5 1 29 4780 1 1 jl 11 _national _celebrations in /England# / 5 1 29 4790 1 1 jl 11 we ^don`t d\o it# / 5 1 29 4800 1 1 jl 11 and we ^just [sha:] !start with Sh\akespeare# / 5 1 29 4810 1 1 jl 11 and ^go on with Ch\aucer# / 5 1 30 4820 1 1 jl 11 and . ^from h\im# . / 5 1 30 4830 1 1 jl 11 ^go on to M\ilton# / 5 1 30 4840 1 1 jl 11 and and and ^then go on to . W/ordsworth# / 5 1 30 4850 1 1 jl 11 and ^C/oleridge# / 5 1 30 4860 1 1 jl 11 and . ^fifteen hundred \/others# . / 5 1 30 4870 1 1 jl 11 ^they`re !\all _bigger and _better# / 5 1 30 4880 1 1 jl 11 than ^Robert B\urns# . / 5 1 30 4890 1 1 jl 11 ^n\o# / 5 1 30 4900 1 1 jl 12 ^this is [@] ^this is being put a!cr\oss _on _us# / 5 1 30 4910 1 1 jl 11 by the ^Sc\ots# / 5 1 30 4920 1 1 jl 11 and ^don`t believe a w\ord _of it# / 5 1 30 4930 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 30 4940 1 1 f 11 ^well I`m :just w\ondering# / 5 1 30 4950 1 1 f 11 ^what the :Sc\otsmen# / 5 1 30 4960 1 1 f 11 in ^our corre:spondence for Any :\Answers# / 5 1 30 4970 1 1 f 11 would ^have to say about th\is# / 5 1 30 4980 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 30 4990 1 1(f 11 ^very \interesting# / 5 1 30 5000 1 1 f 11 [@:] ^Robert Henr\iques# / 5 1 30 5010 1 1 h 11 ^well of course :Jack`s qu/ite r\ight# / 5 1 30 5020 1 1 h 11 but he`s ^he`s only 'half-'way :th\ere# . / 5 1 30 5030 1 2 h 11 but I ^mean . !the real real reason why [ro @] / 5 1 30 5030 1 1 h 11 Burns is :so . [@] :w\/orshipped# / 5 1 31 5040 1 1 h 11 is ^because of course he was a :self-made m\/an# / 5 1 31 5050 1 1 h 11 who ^got th/ere# . / 5 1 31 5060 1 1 h 11 ^from being a f\arm l/abourer# / 5 1 31 5070 1 1 h 11 and was ac^knowledged as a !p\oet# . / 5 1 31 5080 1 1 h 11 ^in his own l/ifetime# / 5 1 31 5090 1 1 h 11 and ^s\econdly# / 5 1 31 5100 1 1 h 11 and ^far :m\ore imp/ortant# / 5 1 31 5110 1 1 h 11 he was a ter^rific :l\over# / 5 1 31 5120 1 1 h 11 a^mongst these d/our# / 5 1 31 5130 1 1 h 11 ^Presbyt/erian :Sc\ots# / 5 1 31 5140 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 31 5150 1 1(h 11 ^and he 'had an e"n\ormous n/umber# / 5 1 31 5160 1 1 h 11 of ^illegitimate !ch\ildren# - / 5 1 31 5170 1 1 h 11 well it`s ^two hundred years a:g\o n/ow# / 5 1 31 5180 1 2 h 11 and if ^you multiply up those those :illegitimate / 5 1 31 5180 1 1 h 11 ch\ildren# / 5 1 31 5190 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 31 5200 1 2(h 11 by the ^number of - by the :number of / 5 1 31 5200 1 1(h 11 gener\/ations# . / 5 1 31 5210 1 1 h 11 that there ^are in :two hundred y/ears# - / 5 1 31 5220 1 1 h 11 ^you can :find there`re :very very few Sc\otsmen# / 5 1 31 5230 1 1 h 11 who ^aren`t in f\/act# / 5 1 31 5240 1 1 h 11 ^worshipping their :own :\ancestor# / 5 1 32 5250 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 32 5260 1 1 f 11 well ^that was all "v\ery pro_found# / 5 1 32 5270 1 1 f 11 ^w\asn`t it# / 5 1 32 5280 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 32 5290 1 1(f 11 ^Bill M\allalieu# / 5 1 32 5300 1 2 m 11 well I ^certainly won`t follow Hen:riques on [@] . / 5 1 32 5300 1 1 m 11 on th\at one# / 5 1 32 5310 1 1 m 11 if ^I start [@] . :naming - :British p\oets# . / 5 1 32 5320 1 1 m 11 or ^great . British prominent :p\eople# / 5 1 32 5330 1 1 m 11 ^who have got . illegitimate :ch\/ildren# / 5 1 32 5340 1 1 m 11 ^I shall get the :BBC into [@] . :l\ibel _action# / 5 1 32 5350 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 32 5360 1 1 f 11 ^not if they`re :dead two hundred y\/ears# / 5 1 32 5370 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 32 5380 1 2 m 11 "^that was :one of the :points that :worries :m\e / 5 1 32 5380 1 1 m 11 you _see# / 5 1 32 5390 1 1 m 20 [@ @] / 5 1 32 5400 1 1 f 11 the ^copyright has exp\ired# / 5 1 32 5410 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 32 5420 1 1 m 12 ^is the . is the ^questioner is w\orrying ab/out# / 5 1 32 5430 1 2 m 11 [@] ^whether we :celebrate people who`ve been . two/ 5 1 32 5430 1 1 m 11 hundred years [@] . dead or :n\ot# . / 5 1 33 5440 1 1 m 11 but [dhi:] . ^point about Burns s\urely /is# / 5 1 33 5450 1 1 m 11 that we ^celebrate h/im# / 5 1 33 5460 1 1 m 11 and ^I say :we as a :Y\/orkshireman# / 5 1 33 5470 1 1 m 11 and ^not an \/Englishman# / 5 1 33 5480 1 1 m 11 or a [s] ^Sc\/otsman# - / 5 1 33 5490 1 1 m 11 "^we c/elebrate him# . / 5 1 33 5500 1 2 m 11 ^because 'he was an ordinary :man who would / 5 1 33 5500 1 1 m 11 suddenly :reach to the :st\ars# . / 5 1 33 5510 1 2 m 11 and ^there are "!hundreds and "!thousands of those / 5 1 33 5510 1 1 m 11 in British h\istory# . / 5 1 33 5520 1 1 m 11 [@] ^Sh/elley# . / 5 1 33 5530 1 1 m 11 ^Sh/akespeare# - / 5 1 33 5540 1 1 m 11 ^even K\eats# - / 5 1 33 5550 1 2 m 11 we can ^do . :plenty of [@] . produce [pre] :plenty/ 5 1 33 5550 1 1 m 11 of r/ivals to :B\urns# . / 5 1 33 5560 1 1 m 11 I ^d\oubt# / 5 1 33 5570 1 3 m 11 ^whether we can get [dhi: @] . :Russians to [@] . / 5 1 33 5570 1 2 m 11 :give an English broadcast about [@] . about [@] . / 5 1 33 5570 1 1 m 11 :Shelley or . or K/eats# / 5 1 34 5580 1 1 m 11 but [@] . ^they`re just as good for :\a 'that# / 5 1 34 5590 1 1 f 11 [@m] ^s\o far# / 5 1 34 5600 1 1 f 11 we`ve ^really only had a :g\o at _Robert B=urns# / 5 1 34 5610 1 1 f 11 we ^haven`t :r\eally _answered# / 5 1 34 5620 1 1 f 11 the ^second part of the qu/estion# / 5 1 34 5630 1 1 f 11 ^what Englishman or :w\oman# . / 5 1 34 5640 1 1 f 11 ^th\at`s imp/ortant# . / 5 1 34 5650 1 1 f 11 can be con^sidered :worthy of similar celebr\ation#/ 5 1 34 5660 1 1 f 11 we`ve ^mentioned one or two n\ebulous ch/aracters# / 5 1 34 5670 1 1 f 11 but we ^still haven`t r\eally _come to the p/oint# / 5 1 34 5680 1 1 tl 20 there`s [o:] / 5 1 34 5690 1 1 f 11 ^Ted L\eather# / 5 1 34 5700 1 1 tl 11 there ^was Terry D\ean of c/ourse# / 5 1 34 5710 1 1 f 11 ^oh w\ell# / 5 1 34 5720 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 34 5730 1 1 tl 11 ^w\ell# / 5 1 34 5740 1 2 tl 11 [a:] ^I`m [@] . de:scended :both from !English / 5 1 34 5740 1 1 tl 11 /\and _Scots# / 5 1 35 5750 1 1 tl 11 and ^on [@] Saturday n/ight# / 5 1 35 5760 1 2 tl 11 I had the . ^pleasure of pro:posing the im:mortal / 5 1 35 5760 1 1 tl 11 memory of :Robert B/urns# - / 5 1 35 5770 1 1 tl 11 ^most of the :gags I /used# / 5 1 35 5780 1 1 tl 11 have al^r\eady been /used# / 5 1 35 5790 1 2 tl 11 by the ^two ch/aracters at the other end of the / 5 1 35 5790 1 1 tl 11 :t\able# / 5 1 35 5800 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 35 5810 1 1(tl 11 which is ^very unf/air# . / 5 1 35 5820 1 1 tl 11 ^one point t\/oo# / 5 1 35 5830 1 1 tl 11 that that which they ^didn`t throw any l\ight /on# / 5 1 35 5840 1 1 tl 11 and ^if they come b/\ack# / 5 1 35 5850 1 1 tl 11 I ^hope they w/\ill# . / 5 1 35 5860 1 1 tl 11 [@] I ^noted in my re:searches on :B\urns# / 5 1 35 5870 1 1 tl 11 that [@] . this [@:] . pro^lific [@] vi:r\ility# / 5 1 35 5880 1 1 tl 11 with ^which he was n/oted# / 5 1 35 5890 1 3 tl 11 and [ae a: a:] I . ^quickly ap:preciated :why that / 5 1 35 5890 1 2 tl 11 en:deared him to :Scots !m\en all over the / 5 1 35 5890 1 1 tl 11 w/orld# - / 5 1 35 5900 1 2 tl 11 I`ve ^yet to find out :why it makes him so be:loved/ 5 1 35 5900 1 1 tl 11 by the :Scots !w\omen# / 5 1 35 5910 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 36 5920 1 2 tl 11 but ^I don`t know whether anybody can :\answer / 5 1 36 5920 1 1 tl 11 that# . / 5 1 36 5930 1 2 tl 11 [@: ae a:] ^I don`t think it`s necessary to / 5 1 36 5930 1 1 tl 11 :d\enigrate B/urns# / 5 1 36 5940 1 2 tl 11 he was [@ . a:] "^I found his poetry :quite / 5 1 36 5940 1 1 tl 11 !ch\arming# . / 5 1 36 5950 1 1 tl 11 but ^if we !have to look for . /Englishmen# / 5 1 36 5960 1 1 tl 11 well ^some of them have been m\entioned# / 5 1 36 5970 1 1 tl 11 ^c\ertainly# / 5 1 36 5980 1 1 tl 11 ^Sh/akespeare# / 5 1 36 5990 1 1 tl 11 [@] . ^M/ilton# . / 5 1 36 6000 1 1 tl 11 and ^Ch/aucer# / 5 1 36 6010 1 1 tl 11 ^K/eats# / 5 1 36 6020 1 1 tl 11 ^Sh/elley# / 5 1 36 6030 1 2 tl 11 ^one could . one could go on for :quite some / 5 1 36 6030 1 1 tl 11 t/ime# . / 5 1 36 6040 1 1 tl 13 ^while we`re ^if we`re :[di:] ^\after all# / 5 1 36 6050 1 1 tl 11 and ^if we`re :trying to equate Burns as a p/oet# / 5 1 36 6060 1 1 tl 11 we`ve got ^th/em# . / 5 1 36 6070 1 1 tl 11 if we`re ^trying to equate him as a r/ake# / 5 1 36 6080 1 1 tl 11 we`ve got ^milord B/yron# / 5 1 36 6090 1 1 tl 11 who was ^rather good at that t/oo# . / 5 1 36 6100 1 1 tl 11 [@:m] - and ^w\omen# - / 5 1 36 6110 1 1 tl 11 ^w=ell# / 5 1 36 6120 1 1 tl 11 [hm] - it ^kind of :ties a :man !d\own# / 5 1 37 6130 1 1 tl 11 ^d\oesn`t it# / 5 1 37 6140 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 37 6150 1 1 f 11 ^y/es# / 5 1 37 6160 1 1 ? 11 ^n\o# / 5 1 37 6170 1 1 ? 21 ^I I don`t :think it / 5 1 37 6180 1 1 tl 11 ^Diana !D\ors I th/ink# / 5 1 37 6190 1 1 tl 11 would be ^m\y choice# / 5 1 37 6200 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 37 6210 1 1 f 21 well I ^don`t / 5 1 37 6220 1 1 tl 11 ^don`t misunder!st\and me# / 5 1 37 6230 1 1 tl 11 I`m ^very !f\ond of _Diana _Dors# / 5 1 37 6240 1 1 aud 11 but she`s ^not two hundred years \old# / 5 1 37 6250 1 1 tl 11 ^no by golly and neither am \I# / 5 1 37 6260 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 1 37 6270 1 1 f 11 ^Robert Henr\iques# / 5 1 37 6280 1 1 h 11 no "^I just think we`ve got to adm/it# / 5 1 37 6290 1 1 h 11 we ^haven`t !g\ot anybody# / 5 1 37 6300 1 1 h 11 to ^put against B\urns# / 5 1 37 6310 1 1 h 11 in ^\England# / 5 1 37 6320 1 1 h 11 you see we ^haven`t got a :self-made m/an# / 5 1 37 6330 1 1 h 11 who was a ^{gr=eat} . g=ay l/over# / 5 1 38 6340 1 1 h 11 "^and a fine :p\oet# / 5 1 38 6350 1 2 h 11 and [wi] ^all we can do is :rake up somebody like / 5 1 38 6350 1 1 h 11 :Piers !Pl\owman# / 5 1 38 6360 1 1 h 11 who was a ^literary !\oddity# . / 5 1 38 6370 1 1 h 11 [@ @ @ wi] ^\otherwise we c/an`t ((do it))# / 5 1 38 6380 1 1 h 11 ^Shakespeare is :too long ag/o# / 5 1 38 6390 1 1 h 11 we ^don`t :kn\ow about his _private _life# / 5 1 38 6400 1 1 h 11 it`s ^all g\uesswork# . / 5 1 38 6410 1 1 h 11 ^Chaucer 'might have been the ch/ap# / 5 1 38 6420 1 1 h 11 but we ^don`t know who he !w\as# / 5 1 38 6430 1 1 h 11 we`ve ^only got his !p\oetry# / 5 1 38 6440 1 1 h 11 to ^g\o by# - / 5 1 38 6450 1 1 h 11 ^Burns`s :person/ality# / 5 1 38 6460 1 2 h 11 ^he somehow :stamped his person:ality on his :age / 5 1 38 6460 1 1 h 11 while he was al/ive# / 5 1 38 6470 1 1 h 11 and it`s ^lasted !right !through !n\ow# / 5 1 38 6480 1 1 h 11 and ^therefore :he was in fact a great :m\an# / 5 1 38 6490 1 1 h 11 and we ^don`t know wh/y# / 5 1 38 6500 1 1 h 11 but he ^w\as# . / 5 1 38 6510 1 1 h 11 and we ^can`t \equal him# / 5 1 39 6520 1 1 f 11 ^y/es# / 5 1 39 6530 1 1 f 11 ^Bill M/allalieu# . / 5 1 39 6540 1 1 f 11 ^got any [ais] id/eas# / 5 1 39 6550 1 1 m 11 ^no nothing m\ore# / 5 1 39 6560 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# . / 5 1 39 6570 1 1 f 11 ^/all right# . / 5 1 39 6580 1 1 f 11 well ^there we \are# . / 5 1 39 6590 1 1 f 11 and we go ^on to the next question fr\om# / 5 1 39 6600 1 1 f 20 (name) / 5 1 39 6610 1 4 II 20 (what does the team consider are the real reasons / 5 1 39 6610 1 3 II 20 for the West`s continued support of the Krupp / 5 1 39 6610 1 2 II 20 empire in the face of their unanimous decision / 5 1 39 6610 1 1 II 20 against this at the end of the war) / 5 1 39 6620 1 1 f 11 ^Ted . Ted L/eather# / 5 1 39 6630 1 1 tl 11 ^I . I`m :quite :frankly !fl/\ummoxed# . / 5 1 39 6640 1 2 tl 11 ^I didn`t :know we "!were still supporting the / 5 1 39 6640 1 1 tl 11 Krupp /empire# / 5 1 39 6650 1 2 tl 11 and . the ^fellow who :asked the :question`s a / 5 1 39 6650 1 1 tl 11 :personal !friend of m/ine# / 5 1 39 6660 1 1 tl 11 he`s ^really put me on the !sp\ot# - / 5 1 40 6670 1 1 tl 11 ^I quite honestly don`t !kn/\ow# / 5 1 40 6680 1 1 f 11 ^Bill M/allalieu# / 5 1 40 6690 1 1 m 11 ^I would have th\ought# / 5 1 40 6700 1 2 m 11 that ^we "!are supporting the [?] the Krupp / 5 1 40 6700 1 1 m 11 \empire# - / 5 1 40 6710 1 1 m 11 [dhi:] . ^Krupp empire to m\/e# - / 5 1 40 6720 1 1 m 11 it`s a ^word that makes me see w\ar# . / 5 1 40 6730 1 1 m 11 I`ve got "^deep "prejudices a:g\ainst it# . / 5 1 40 6740 1 2 m 11 but I be^lieve that we !\are beginning to supp/ort / 5 1 40 6740 1 1 m 11 it _Ted# - / 5 1 40 6750 1 2 m 11 be^cause we`ve :got [@] . the :fear of :communists / 5 1 40 6750 1 1 m 11 under our b\eds# . / 5 1 40 6760 1 2 m 11 we ^think that [dhi: @] . :Germans have the most / 5 1 40 6760 1 1 m 11 efficient /organizers# - / 5 1 40 6770 1 1 m 11 ^whether of !peace or of w\ar# / 5 1 40 6780 1 1 m 11 and in ^this sense we`re :talking about w/ar# . / 5 1 40 6790 1 1 m 11 and we ^think that :Krupps will be :=useful# / 5 1 40 6800 1 2 m 11 if ^ever the West 'comes into . armed conflict with/ 5 1 40 6800 1 1 m 11 the . :\East# - / 5 1 41 6810 1 1 m 11 I think it is [ei] "^t/errible# / 5 1 41 6820 1 1 m 11 and "^dangerous line to t\ake# . / 5 1 41 6830 1 1 m 11 ^I p/ersonally# / 5 1 41 6840 1 1 m 11 would ^not 'trust . the :German n=ation# . / 5 1 41 6850 1 1 m 11 as ^I`ve known it during my l/ifetime# . / 5 1 41 6860 1 1 m 11 with a "^p\opgun# / 5 1 41 6870 1 1 m 11 let a^lone with [dhi:] . "r/\eal ma_chinery# / 5 1 41 6880 1 1 m 11 of ^w\ar# - / 5 1 41 6890 1 1 m 11 ^what I "!would trust them w/ith# . / 5 1 41 6900 1 1 m 11 is the ^machinery of p\eace# / 5 1 41 6910 1 1 m 11 they ^{\are} good \organizers# . / 5 1 41 6920 1 1 m 11 they`re ^w/\onderful# / 5 1 41 6930 1 1 m 11 pro^d\ucers# . / 5 1 41 6940 1 1 m 11 ^they could pro:duce the :steel that we n/eed# . / 5 1 41 6950 1 1 m 11 ^we the whole w\orld n/eeds# / 5 1 41 6960 1 1 m 11 to ^build up the backward areas of the w/orld# / 5 1 41 6970 1 1 m 11 and to ^build up our standards of l\iving# . / 5 1 41 6980 1 2 m 11 ^I`d like to see :Krupp . under different / 5 1 41 6980 1 1 m 11 contr\/ol# . / 5 1 41 6990 1 1 m 11 pro^ducing for :peace . and :not for w\ar# . / 5 1 42 7000 1 2 m 11 but I ^think we`re !still . letting him pro:duce / 5 1 42 7000 1 1 m 11 for w/ar# . / 5 1 42 7010 1 1 m 11 because we ^think that :war is going to :c\ome# / 5 1 42 7020 1 1 tl 11 [k@] . ^can !I just come b/ack# / 5 1 42 7030 1 1 f 11 ^yes T/ed Leather# / 5 1 42 7040 1 1 tl 11 with with a ^supplem\entary on th/is# / 5 1 42 7050 1 1 tl 11 because ^this is a 'very im:portant :qu\estion# . / 5 1 42 7060 1 1 tl 11 in ^what way 'are 'we sup"!p\orting him# . / 5 1 42 7070 1 1 tl 11 now ^obviously the :questioner has [@n {/ai} "/ei]#/ 5 1 42 7080 1 1 tl 11 ^may I just say :two p\oints# . / 5 1 42 7090 1 1 tl 11 ^/A# . / 5 1 42 7100 1 1 tl 11 ^/\I don`t# / 5 1 42 7110 1 1 tl 11 ((12 sylls )) ^well I :may have !missed s/omething#/ 5 1 42 7120 1 1 tl 11 I ^don`t know what we`re what "!w\e are doing# / 5 1 42 7130 1 1 tl 11 to sup^p\ort it# . / 5 1 42 7140 1 1 tl 11 and ^s\econdly# / 5 1 42 7150 1 1 tl 11 ^let`s be 'quite :cl/\ear# . / 5 1 43 7160 1 1 tl 11 ^Krupp is a !German c\/itizen# / 5 1 43 7170 1 1 tl 11 ^in G\/ermany# / 5 1 43 7180 1 1 tl 11 ^which for !good or for /ill# / 5 1 43 7190 1 1 tl 11 is a ^free and inde:pendent !c\ountry# - / 5 1 43 7200 1 1 tl 11 ^wh/\at [@]# / 5 1 43 7210 1 1 tl 11 ^r/\ight [@]# / 5 1 43 7220 1 1 tl 11 ^w\e h/ave# / 5 1 43 7230 1 1 tl 11 to . ^tell somebody "!in !G\ermany# / 5 1 43 7240 1 1 tl 11 what he ^may do or may !n/\ot _do# . / 5 1 43 7250 1 1 tl 11 ^I don`t kn/ow# / 5 1 43 7260 1 2 tl 11 ^I shouldn`t have thought we`ve any !power in the / 5 1 43 7260 1 1 tl 11 m/atter# / 5 1 43 7270 1 1 tl 11 ^one way or the /\other# . / 5 1 43 7280 1 1 tl 11 ^s/\urely# / 5 1 43 7290 1 1 f 11 ^\yes# . / 5 1 43 7300 1 1 f 11 [@:] ^R/obert# / 5 1 43 7310 1 2 h 11 well [dh dh dh] . the ^straightforward !f\acts of / 5 1 43 7310 1 1 h 11 the qu/estion# / 5 1 43 7320 1 1 h 11 [a:r@] are ^th\is# . / 5 1 43 7330 1 2 h 11 that ^Krupp . property was o:riginally / 5 1 43 7330 1 1 h 11 :c\onfisc/ated# . / 5 1 43 7340 1 1 h 11 [@] ^by an A!merican c/ourt# / 5 1 43 7350 1 1 h 11 ^just after the w/ar# . / 5 1 43 7360 1 1 h 11 when ^Krupp was tried as a :war cr\iminal# . / 5 1 43 7370 1 1 h 11 ^that that [@] :v\/erdict# / 5 1 43 7380 1 1 h 11 was ^subsequently rev/ersed# / 5 1 44 7390 1 2 h 11 and his ^property was ordered !n\ot to be / 5 1 44 7390 1 1 h 11 c/onfiscated# / 5 1 44 7400 1 1 h 11 but in ^fact to be !s\/old# / 5 1 44 7410 1 1 h 11 to other ^German ind\ustrialists# - / 5 1 44 7420 1 1 h 11 ^other German ind/ustrialists# / 5 1 44 7430 1 1 h 11 have re^fused to b/\uy it# / 5 1 44 7440 1 2 h 11 and ^there`ve been !nothing but ri:diculously low / 5 1 44 7440 1 1 h 11 :b\ids# - / 5 1 44 7450 1 1 h 11 ^bec/ause# / 5 1 44 7460 1 1 h 11 ^German [imba]d/ustrialists# . / 5 1 44 7470 1 1 h 11 ^by and l/arge# . / 5 1 44 7480 1 1 h 11 ^like to think of Krupp th/ere# / 5 1 44 7490 1 1 h 11 as a ^great 'symbol of 'German p/\ower# - / 5 1 44 7500 1 2 h 11 ^now . the :thing that !does . astonish me is / 5 1 44 7500 1 1 h 11 th\is# / 5 1 44 7510 1 1 h 11 ^Ted Leather ((s/ays))# / 5 1 44 7520 1 1 h 11 ^what right have we :got to interv\ene# / 5 1 44 7530 1 1 h 11 ^unf\/ortunately# / 5 1 44 7540 1 1 h 11 ^n\one# / 5 1 44 7550 1 1 h 11 but we "^\ought to have a _right# . / 5 1 44 7560 1 1 h 11 and . ^Mallalieu s/ays# . / 5 1 44 7570 1 2 h 11 ^like - a :tiny mi:nority of about :five hundred / 5 1 44 7570 1 1 h 11 million :\other people in the world s/ay# . / 5 1 45 7580 1 1 h 11 ^what \is all this _business# / 5 1 45 7590 1 1 h 11 of ^putting Germany back as a :big p/ower# / 5 1 45 7600 1 1 h 11 and an ^independent n/ation# . / 5 1 45 7610 1 2 h 11 and ^saying that the :unity of :Germany is [dhi . i/ 5 1 45 7610 1 1 h 11 i i] is the :first ess\ential# / 5 1 45 7620 1 1 h 11 ^\everybody`s _saying _that# / 5 1 45 7630 1 1 h 11 and yet ^five hundred million people in the w\orld#/ 5 1 45 7640 1 1 h 11 when you ^m\eet them# . / 5 1 45 7650 1 1 h 11 ^say we`ve :fought "two w\ars# / 5 1 45 7660 2 1 h 21 to ^destroy Germany / 5 1 45 7670 1 1 ? 20 hear hear / 5 1 45 7660 1 1(h 11 ":as [ei] n/ation# . / 5 1 45 7680 1 1 h 11 we ^don`t want to be un:kind to German p/eople# . / 5 1 45 7690 1 1 h 11 we`ll be ^perfectly ch/aritable# / 5 1 45 7700 1 1 h 11 we`ll for^g/ive them# / 5 1 45 7710 1 2 h 11 we`ll ^see that they . they :live in perfectly / 5 1 45 7710 1 1 h 11 :decent cond/itions# / 5 1 45 7720 1 1 h 11 but we do ^not want a 're'unified German n\ation# / 5 1 45 7730 1 1 h 11 that`s what they ^\all the _small _people# / 5 1 45 7740 1 1 h 11 ^\all# / 5 1 46 7750 1 1 h 11 ^like mys\elf# . / 5 1 46 7760 1 1 h 11 ^like M\allalieu even# / 5 1 46 7770 1 1 h 11 who`s a ^Member of :P/\arliament# . / 5 1 46 7780 1 2 h 11 ^like !sc\ores of _other people in _Westminster are/ 5 1 46 7780 1 1 h 11 _saying# / 5 1 46 7790 1 1 h 11 ^t/\oo# . / 5 1 46 7800 1 1 h 11 and ^y\et# / 5 1 46 7810 1 2 h 11 ^this remains national policy all over the / 5 1 46 7810 1 1 h 11 w\orld# . / 5 1 46 7820 1 1 h 11 to ^make Germany :back a:gain a str/ong# / 5 1 46 7830 1 1 h 11 to ^make it a u!nited !strong n/ation# . / 5 1 46 7840 1 1 h 11 and . and when you "^have a united strong n/ation# / 5 1 46 7850 1 2 h 11 it`s got the ^right to keep its :great . / 5 1 46 7850 1 1 h 11 in:dustrial - ":armaments f\actory# / 5 1 46 7860 1 3 h 11 because it can be ^turned into :armaments any / 5 1 46 7860 1 2 h 11 :moment though the :armaments part has been / 5 1 46 7860 1 1 h 11 destroyed at Kr/upps# . / 5 1 46 7870 1 2 h 11 and it is [dh@] and ^while there is a u:nited / 5 1 46 7870 1 1 h 11 Germany !w\ith Krupp# . / 5 1 46 7880 1 3 h 11 then the ^world is in !greater danger than it :ever/ 5 1 46 7880 1 2 h 11 'is from the :other side of the Iron :Curtain in / 5 1 46 7880 1 1 h 11 !m\y opinion# / 5 1 47 7890 1 1 ? 20 hear hear / 5 1 47 7900 1 1 f 11 ^J/ack Longland# / 5 1 47 7910 1 1 jl 11 ^yes I . :I agr\ee# / 5 1 47 7920 1 2 jl 11 ^I . think there`s . v\ery little we can do about / 5 1 47 7920 1 1 jl 11 it n/ow# / 5 1 47 7930 1 1 jl 11 be^cause we`ve !sold the p\/ass# - / 5 1 47 7940 1 1 jl 11 [@m] ^seven or eight years ag\o# . / 5 1 47 7950 1 1 jl 11 you ^s/ee# . / 5 1 47 7960 1 1 jl 11 there "^was a t/ime# . / 5 1 47 7970 1 2 jl 11 [@] in ^which . every . reasonably peaceful . and ./ 5 1 47 7970 1 1 jl 11 :democratic . :p\/arty# . / 5 1 47 7980 1 1 jl 11 and ^indiv/idual# / 5 1 47 7990 1 1 jl 11 in ^G/ermany# . / 5 1 47 8000 1 1 jl 11 ^looked to /us# . / 5 1 47 8010 1 2 jl 11 and ^looked to the ex'tremely [di:p] decent :chaps / 5 1 47 8010 1 1 jl 11 we h\ad# / 5 1 47 8020 1 1 jl 11 ^I th/ink# / 5 1 47 8030 1 1 jl 11 ^on the wh/ole in# . / 5 1 47 8040 1 1 jl 11 ^military g/overnment# / 5 1 47 8050 1 1 jl 11 [@n] and ^in the Contr\ol Comm/ission# . / 5 1 47 8060 1 2 jl 11 who "^were trying to build up :all 'that 'part of ./ 5 1 47 8060 1 1 jl 11 :l\iberal G/ermany# / 5 1 48 8070 1 1 jl 11 which . "^had 'been - :really in ecl\ipse# . / 5 1 48 8080 1 1 jl 11 ^ever since . :B\ismarck# / 5 1 48 8090 1 1 jl 11 or per^haps even further b\ack# - / 5 1 48 8100 1 1 jl 11 ^and !/once# / 5 1 48 8110 1 1 jl 11 ^as . M\allalieu said# / 5 1 48 8120 1 1 jl 11 ^quite r/ightly# / 5 1 48 8130 1 1 jl 11 we be^gan to see :communists under every b/ed# - / 5 1 48 8140 1 1 jl 11 ^we 'sold 'that p\ass# . / 5 1 48 8150 1 1 jl 11 we ^said we !cannot 'do with:\out# . / 5 1 48 8160 1 1 jl 11 a ^strong and :re/armed# / 5 1 48 8170 1 1 jl 11 ^Western G\ermany# . / 5 1 48 8180 1 1 jl 11 and ^what h\appened# . / 5 1 48 8190 1 1 jl 11 ^all sorts of :nasty little :ex-N\azis# / 5 1 48 8200 1 1 jl 11 started ^crawling 'out from under st/ones# . / 5 1 48 8210 1 2 jl 11 and ^getting into positions they !never 'would have/ 5 1 48 8210 1 1 jl 11 d/one# . / 5 1 48 8220 1 1 jl 11 if we`d ^stuck to our o:riginal p/olicy# . / 5 1 48 8230 1 1 jl 11 ^/and# . / 5 1 48 8240 1 1 jl 11 at the ^same t/ime# / 5 1 48 8250 1 1 jl 11 we`ve ^sold the p/ass about these# . / 5 1 48 8260 1 1 jl 11 in^dustrial empires like Kr/upps# / 5 1 48 8270 1 1 jl 11 which ^in the !p\ast# . / 5 1 48 8280 1 1 jl 11 ^had been built up . :very l/argely# / 5 1 49 8290 1 1 jl 11 ^on the arms tr\ade# . / 5 1 49 8300 1 2 jl 11 and [@] . ^even if . they`re not :selling arms / 5 1 49 8300 1 1 jl 11 n/ow# / 5 1 49 8310 1 1 jl 11 in ^\/origin# . / 5 1 49 8320 1 1 jl 11 ^that is a :filthy and d\irty tr/ade# . / 5 1 49 8330 1 1 jl 11 I ^don`t think :\/anyone# / 5 1 49 8340 1 2 jl 11 ^I . I would say the :same thing about :Vickers if / 5 1 49 8340 1 1 jl 11 they were doing it n/ow# . / 5 1 49 8350 1 1 jl 11 I ^don`t think that the :\arms tr/ade# . / 5 1 49 8360 1 1 jl 11 for ^export at :\any r/ate# . / 5 1 49 8370 1 2 jl 11 ^ought to be in the hands of private individuals at/ 5 1 49 8370 1 1 jl 11 :\all# / 5 1 49 8380 1 1 jl 11 if ((you`ve)) ^got to have /arms# . / 5 1 49 8390 1 1 jl 11 it ^ought to be a :government mon\opoly# . / 5 1 49 8400 1 1 jl 11 ^I think it`s a !b\ad th/ing# / 5 1 49 8410 1 1 jl 11 and it ^ought to be st\opped# / 5 1 49 8420 1 1 f 11 ^Ted L/eather# / 5 1 49 8430 1 2 tl 11 well . [a:] ^I`m not :advocating [ei] :pr\o-German / 5 1 49 8430 1 1 tl 11 p/olicy# / 5 1 50 8440 1 1 tl 11 or an ^\anti-German 'policy# / 5 1 50 8450 1 1 tl 11 but for ^heaven`s s\akes# / 5 1 50 8460 1 2 tl 11 we ^have to keep 'some sense of re:\ality in this / 5 1 50 8460 1 1 tl 11 _programme# - / 5 1 50 8470 1 1 tl 11 in the ^first pl\ace# *.* / 5 1 50 8480 1 1 tl 12 ^none of my . [w@ha:] . ^w\ell# / 5 1 50 8490 2 1 tl 21 it`s a ^nice / 5 1 50 8500 1 1 h 11 *^wh\y#* / 5 1 50 8490 1 1(tl 11 th\ought R/obert# / 5 1 50 8510 1 1 tl 11 ^I agr\ee# / 5 1 50 8520 1 1 tl 11 ^you and I could have more :f\un the _other _way# -/ 5 1 50 8530 1 1 tl 11 but in the ^first pl/ace# / 5 1 50 8540 1 1 tl 11 "^n\one of my c/olleagues# / 5 1 50 8550 1 1 tl 11 have ^said !\/anything# / 5 1 50 8560 1 1 tl 11 to [s@p] to ^\/indicate# . / 5 1 50 8570 1 2 tl 11 ^any evidence that we are . sup"!p\orting the / 5 1 50 8570 1 1 tl 11 _Krupp _empire# / 5 1 50 8580 1 1 tl 11 which ^is the !qu\estion# . / 5 1 50 8590 1 1 tl 11 and ^\I don`t bel/ieve# / 5 1 50 8600 1 1 tl 11 we ^are doing !\anything to supp/ort it# / 5 1 50 8610 1 1 h 11 there`s a ^Times leader to:d\ay# . / 5 1 50 8620 1 1 h 11 [@] ^T\ed# . / 5 1 51 8630 1 2 h 11 pointing out that it was ^perfectly :l\egal to / 5 1 51 8630 1 1 h 11 l/et# / 5 1 51 8640 1 1 h 11 ^perfectly :l\ogical# / 5 1 51 8650 1 1 h 11 the ^Times first l\eader# . / 5 1 51 8660 1 1 h 11 *((that Krupps should))* get it ^b\ack# / 5 1 51 8670 1 1 tl 11 *^I !s\aw that#* / 5 1 51 8680 1 1 tl 11 ^y\eah# / 5 1 51 8690 1 1 tl 11 ^I I !s\aw that# . / 5 1 51 8700 1 1 tl 11 ^but a!g\ain I _say# / 5 1 51 8710 1 1 tl 11 ^we 'have 'no p/ower# / 5 1 51 8720 1 1 tl 11 ^either to supp/ort or !n\ot to support# . / 5 1 51 8730 1 1 tl 11 ^any more than the :G\erman g/overnment# / 5 1 51 8740 1 1 tl 11 or the ^It\alian g/overnment# / 5 1 51 8750 1 1 tl 11 ^has the p/ower# / 5 1 51 8760 1 1 tl 11 to sup^p/ort# / 5 1 51 8770 1 1 tl 11 or ^not supp/ort# *-* / 5 1 51 8780 2 1 tl 21 the ^company that owns this / 5 1 51 8790 1 1 ? 11 *but ^T/\ed#* / 5 1 51 8780 1 1(tl 11 :factory we`re /\in# / 5 1 51 8800 1 1 tl 11 it`s ^none of our !b\usiness# - / 5 1 51 8810 1 1 tl 11 and ^/\all this _business# / 5 1 51 8820 1 1 tl 11 about ^selling the p\ass# / 5 1 51 8830 1 1 tl 11 you ^kn/ow# / 5 1 51 8840 1 1 tl 11 a^gain with !gr\eat resp/ect# / 5 1 51 8850 1 1 tl 11 it`s ^quite unreal!\istic# - / 5 1 52 8860 1 1 tl 11 it`s ^long long time b/ack# / 5 1 52 8870 1 1 tl 11 in the ^first !few years :after the w\ar# - / 5 1 52 8880 1 1 tl 11 the ^British p/eople# / 5 1 52 8890 1 1 tl 11 ^through their :representatives in P/arliament# / 5 1 52 8900 1 1 tl 11 of "^\all p/arties# . / 5 1 52 8910 1 1 tl 11 and ^my party were !n\ot _in _power at that t/ime# / 5 1 52 8920 1 2 tl 11 although we . "^thoroughly . sup!p\orted the / 5 1 52 8920 1 1 tl 11 _Labour _government# / 5 1 52 8930 1 1 tl 11 in ^wh\at they d/id# . / 5 1 52 8940 1 1 tl 11 ^had to make a :basic dec\ision# . / 5 1 52 8950 1 1 tl 11 ^are y=ou# - / 5 1 52 8960 1 1 tl 11 pre^p\ared# - / 5 1 52 8970 1 1 tl 11 ^to !keep the "!wh\ole# / 5 1 52 8980 1 1 tl 11 of this ^vast central mass of :/Europe# . / 5 1 52 8990 1 2 tl 11 [@:] ^as [ei . @] po:lice con:trolled state :run by/ 5 1 52 8990 1 1 tl 11 the \Allies# - / 5 1 52 9000 1 1 tl 11 and "^\everybody# / 5 1 52 9010 1 2 tl 11 in ^this country and the :free world !said n/o they/ 5 1 52 9010 1 1 tl 11 "w\eren`t# - / 5 1 52 9020 1 1 tl 11 now . ^th\at being s/o# / 5 1 52 9030 1 1 tl 11 ^you :th\en s/aid# / 5 1 52 9040 1 1 tl 11 ^all r/ight# / 5 1 52 9050 1 1 tl 11 we al^l\ow G/ermany# / 5 1 52 9060 1 1 tl 11 her . ^freedom and her :\indep/endence# / 5 1 53 9070 1 1 tl 11 to de^v/elop# / 5 1 53 9080 1 1 tl 11 the ^same as any other !c\ountry# . / 5 1 53 9090 1 1 tl 11 and "^\all these _things# / 5 1 53 9100 1 1 tl 11 ^whether you !l\ike them or n/ot# / 5 1 53 9110 1 1 tl 11 ^flow !quite in/evitably# / 5 1 53 9120 1 1 tl 11 ^fr/om !th\at# . / 5 1 53 9130 1 1 tl 11 ^we may ap"pr/ove# / 5 1 53 9140 1 1 tl 11 or "^d\isapprove# / 5 1 53 9150 1 1 tl 11 of ^what the :German government d/\oes# - / 5 1 53 9160 1 1 tl 11 ^but !when . w/\e# . / 5 1 53 9170 1 1 tl 11 "^((\all)) the _Allies# . / 5 1 53 9180 1 2 tl 11 and ^certainly the !vast ma!jority of the :Br\itish/ 5 1 53 9180 1 1 tl 11 _people# / 5 1 53 9190 1 1 tl 11 ^said !way back in the :nineteen f/\orties# . / 5 1 53 9200 1 2 tl 11 ^we we . don`t want to have the . !problem of / 5 1 53 9200 1 1 tl 11 running :G\ermany# / 5 1 53 9210 1 1 tl 11 ^let them run thems/elves# . / 5 1 53 9220 1 1 tl 11 "^these problems f\ollow# / 5 1 53 9230 1 1 tl 11 and it`s ^not a question of . :s\elling a p/ass# / 5 1 53 9240 1 1 tl 11 it`s sup^p/orting [@v] n\ot sup_porting# - / 5 1 53 9250 1 1 tl 11 ^I`m not "\advoc/ating# / 5 1 53 9260 1 1 tl 11 or ^saying it`s good or b/\ad# / 5 1 54 9270 1 1 tl 11 I`m ^only saying :let`s be :s\/ensible# / 5 1 54 9280 1 1 tl 11 it . it`s ^not something ":w\e have d/one# / 5 1 54 9290 1 2 tl 11 and it`s ^quite silly to try and . "bl\ame / 5 1 54 9290 1 1 tl 11 ours/elves# / 5 1 54 9300 1 1 tl 11 for ^something that`s :quite beyond our contr/\ol# / 5 1 54 9310 1 1 f 11 ^Bill 'Mallalieu v\ery sh/ortly# / 5 1 54 9320 1 1 m 11 it "^\isn`t beyond our _control# . / 5 1 54 9330 1 1 m 11 we`re "^still th\ere# . / 5 1 54 9340 1 1 m 11 [i@] ^Germany is "!n\ot an independent n/ation# / 5 1 54 9350 1 1 m 11 it is "^still contr\olled# / 5 1 54 9360 1 2 m 11 and ^will be for the :next !six months at / 5 1 54 9360 1 1 m 11 :l\east# . / 5 1 54 9370 1 1 m 11 but we "^h\ave sold the _pass# . / 5 1 54 9380 1 1 m 11 at the ^\end of the last w/ar# / 5 1 54 9390 1 2 m 11 ^we said we`ve had !two 'world 'wars which have / 5 1 54 9390 1 1 m 11 been :mainly :G\erman in /origin# . / 5 1 54 9400 1 2 m 11 [@] with ^Krupps as the great :s\ymbol of that / 5 1 54 9400 1 1 m 11 St/aat# . / 5 1 54 9410 1 1 m 11 and we`re "^not going to have it ag\ain# - / 5 1 55 9420 1 1 m 11 but we`ve ^let it sl\ide# / 5 1 55 9430 1 1 m 11 we "^h\ave sold the p/ass# . / 5 1 55 9440 1 1 m 11 when it was ^st\ill in our contr/ol# . / 5 1 55 9450 1 1 m 11 and it ^still "\is in our con_trol# . / 5 1 55 9460 1 1 m 11 and we ought to "^stop it n\ow# / 5 1 55 9470 1 1 m 11 while we`ve ^still got the p\ower# / 5 1 55 9480 1 2 f 11 well ^I think we could go on dis:cussing ((it)) / 5 1 55 9480 1 1 f 11 till the !c\ows come home# - / 5 1 55 9490 1 2 f 11 and ^I think we`ll go on to the !n\ext qu/estion / 5 1 55 9490 1 1 f 11 from (name)# / 5 2 1 10 1 6 II 20 (in answering his brother-in-law`s question what do/ 5 2 1 10 1 5 II 20 you particularly like Bertrand Russell says that / 5 2 1 10 1 4 II 20 he replied mathematics and the sea theology and / 5 2 1 10 1 3 II 20 heraldry the two former because they are inhuman / 5 2 1 10 1 2 II 20 the two latter because they are absurd would the / 5 2 1 10 1 1 II 20 Brains Trust please comment) / 5 2 1 20 1 2 f 11 I ^don`t think we`ll :dwell very much at the / 5 2 1 20 1 1 f 11 :m\oment on the/ology# / 5 2 1 30 1 2 f 11 as we`re ^not very well e!quipped for that / 5 2 1 30 1 1 f 11 tod/ay# . / 5 2 1 40 1 1 f 11 ^mathematics and s=ea# . / 5 2 1 50 1 1 f 11 ^theology and :h\eraldry# . / 5 2 1 60 1 1 f 11 the ^f/ormer# / 5 2 1 70 1 1 f 11 be^cause they`re inh=uman# . / 5 2 1 80 1 1 f 11 the ^l/atter# / 5 2 1 90 1 1 f 11 be^cause they`re ab:s\urd# . / 5 2 1 100 1 1 f 11 ^David D\aiches# / 5 2 1 110 1 1 d 11 ^w/\ell# / 5 2 1 120 1 1 d 11 ^that`s a :very . !p\ersonal# / 5 2 1 130 1 1 d 11 ^choice of :s\ubjects# / 5 2 1 140 1 1 d 11 ^\isn`t it# . / 5 2 1 150 1 1 d 11 [@:] . I`m ^no mathema:t\ician# / 5 2 1 160 1 1 d 11 I`m a^fr/aid# . / 5 2 1 170 1 1 d 11 I was ^never terribly :good at it at sch/ool# . / 5 2 2 180 1 1 d 11 I was ^always :much more :interested mys/elf# / 5 2 2 190 1 1 d 11 in ^those k/inds# . / 5 2 2 200 1 1 d 11 [o] of ^sk/ill# . / 5 2 2 210 1 2 d 11 which ^had to do with the manipulation . :of i:deas/ 5 2 2 210 1 1 d 11 and :l\anguage# . / 5 2 2 220 1 1 d 11 I ^like l\anguages# . / 5 2 2 230 1 1 d 11 I`m ^not as :good at them as I :m\ight b/e# . / 5 2 2 240 1 1 d 11 [@] "^dead languages and "!\useless _languages# / 5 2 2 250 1 1 d 11 I ^wish I knew :C\ornish# / 5 2 2 260 1 1 d 11 which ^nobody ever :sp\eaks# . / 5 2 2 270 1 1 d 11 I ^tried to learn Scottish :G\aelic# / 5 2 2 280 1 2 d 11 but as ^soon as I :learnt it it was a :dying / 5 2 2 280 1 1 d 11 l\anguage# - / 5 2 2 290 1 1 d 11 ^odd ways which people ex:pr\ess them_selves# . / 5 2 2 300 1 1 d 11 but [@] . ^that would be "!m\y _substitution# / 5 2 2 310 1 1 d 11 for ^mathem\atics# / 5 2 2 320 1 1 f 11 ^w/ell# / 5 2 2 330 1 1 f 12 ^shall we just look . ^Alan G\emmel# / 5 2 2 340 1 1 f 11 at the . ^whether you a:gr\/ee# / 5 2 2 350 1 1 f 11 ^with the :inhu!m\anit/y# / 5 2 2 360 1 1 f 11 that`s at^tributed to :mathe!m\atics# . / 5 2 3 370 1 1 f 11 I ^know !y\ou _know a lot of mathem/atics# / 5 2 3 380 1 1 g 11 ^this is :fl\attering# . / 5 2 3 390 1 1 g 11 [@m] - ^y\es# . / 5 2 3 400 1 1 g 11 ^it is :in!h\uman# - / 5 2 3 410 1 1 g 11 in a ^sense that it`s a :very "l\ogical pr/ocess# ./ 5 2 3 420 1 1 g 11 ^which . :you can construct mach/ines# / 5 2 3 430 1 1 g 11 to ^d/o# / 5 2 3 440 1 1 g 11 ^very very :\adequately# . / 5 2 3 450 1 1 g 11 on the ^other h\and# / 5 2 3 460 1 1 g 11 one must "^not conf\/use# - / 5 2 3 470 1 1 g 11 [dhi:] . "^logic of mathem/atics# - / 5 2 3 480 1 1 g 11 with the ^st\age in mathem/atics# / 5 2 3 490 1 1 g 11 in which ^intu!\ition# / 5 2 3 500 1 1 g 11 be^comes the really vital :th\ing# - / 5 2 3 510 1 1 g 11 that ^carries you !\over# / 5 2 3 520 1 1 g 11 a par^ticular b/arrier# . / 5 2 3 530 1 1 g 11 which you cross "^purely int\uitively# - / 5 2 3 540 1 2 g 11 and so I ^think it`s [in] . I :think it`s - / 5 2 3 540 1 1 g 11 l\/ogical# . / 5 2 3 550 1 1 g 11 and ^inh\uman# . / 5 2 3 560 1 1 g 11 you know "^up to ninety per c\ent# . / 5 2 4 570 1 1 g 11 but there`s "^t\en _per _cent# / 5 2 4 580 1 1 g 11 which is "^very h/uman# / 5 2 4 590 1 1 g 11 and "^very in:t\uitive# / 5 2 4 600 1 1 f 11 Sir ^Ian Moncr\eiffe# . / 5 2 4 610 1 2 f 11 are you ^going to take up the :cudgels about / 5 2 4 610 1 1 f 11 :h/eraldry# / 5 2 4 620 1 1 m 11 ^not necessarily :c\/udgels# / 5 2 4 630 1 1 m 11 because of of course it it may ^w/\ell be ab_surd# / 5 2 4 640 1 1 m 11 it depends on what he . "^m\eans _by ab_surd# - / 5 2 4 650 1 1 m 11 ^what I "!r\/eally _think# / 5 2 4 660 1 1 m 11 is ^th\is _though# . / 5 2 4 670 1 1 m 11 [@m] . "^m\/en# . / 5 2 4 680 1 1 m 11 are . ^different from :\animals# . / 5 2 4 690 1 1 m 11 ^animals don`t have :h\/eraldry# / 5 2 4 700 1 1 m 11 ^or the:\/ology# / 5 2 4 710 1 1 m 11 ^/\or# . / 5 2 4 720 1 1 m 11 ^so far as I kn/ow# / 5 2 4 730 1 1 m 11 ^mathe!m\atics# - / 5 2 4 740 1 1 m 11 ^and . [@:] - !what . h\/eraldry# . / 5 2 4 750 1 1 m 11 and for that matter the^\/ology# / 5 2 4 760 1 1 m 11 ^g\ive to p/eople# . / 5 2 4 770 1 1 m 11 is ^c\/olour# . / 5 2 4 780 1 1 m 11 and ^something !outs\/ide# . / 5 2 4 790 1 1 m 11 ^what . an :\animal n/eeds# / 5 2 5 800 1 1 m 11 that`s to say . ^f=ood# . / 5 2 5 810 1 1 m 11 ^r=est# - / 5 2 5 820 1 1 m 11 ^mathe!m\/atics# / 5 2 5 830 1 1 m 11 may ^help you to . :c\ombat# . / 5 2 5 840 1 1 m 11 [dhi:] . ^world in which :man is :pl\aced# . / 5 2 5 850 1 1 m 11 his his his ^actual :physical en:v\/ironment# . / 5 2 5 860 1 1 m 11 and to ^th\at ex_tent# / 5 2 5 870 1 2 m 11 they`re a con^tinuance of :our - when they`re / 5 2 5 870 1 1 m 11 ap:pl\ied mathem/atics# / 5 2 5 880 1 1 m 11 are a con^tinuance of our :animal ex:\istence# . / 5 2 5 890 1 1 m 11 we ^use them to get "!b\etter _food# / 5 2 5 900 1 1 m 11 "^m\ore _comfort# . / 5 2 5 910 1 1 m 11 we ^can 'then go :\on and /use _them# . / 5 2 5 920 1 1 m 11 for . ^\/other# . / 5 2 5 930 1 1 m 11 and . ^more . !purely intel:l\/ectual _things# / 5 2 5 940 1 1 m 11 which an ^animal wouldn`t !d\o# . / 5 2 5 950 1 1 m 11 but . [dh@] the "^s\ide# / 5 2 5 960 1 1 m 11 of the ^intel:l\ectual activity of m/an# / 5 2 5 970 1 1 m 11 that ^m\ost interests m/e# / 5 2 5 980 1 1 m 11 is what ^I call the mumbo :j\umbo _side# - / 5 2 6 990 1 2 m 10 and ((heraldry is part of that . people)) . mind / 5 2 6 990 1 1 m 10 :terribly about the :c\olours# . / 5 2 6 1000 1 1 m 11 where ^when [@m] there is a row in :M\onaco# / 5 2 6 1010 1 1 m 11 the ^Monagasques "!don`t object to :p\/eople# . / 5 2 6 1020 1 1 m 11 ^doing :this that or the :\/other _to _them# . / 5 2 6 1030 1 1 m 11 they ob^ject to their tearing :up their :fl\ag# . / 5 2 6 1040 1 1 m 11 ^which . which is the :most h\armless th/ing# / 5 2 6 1050 1 1 m 11 you could ^do to !\anybody# / 5 2 6 1060 1 1 m 11 when you ^think about it . !pr\/actically# / 5 2 6 1070 1 1 m 11 it "^\is ab_surd# / 5 2 6 1080 1 1 f 11 so if ^heraldry is ab:s\urd# / 5 2 6 1090 1 1 f 11 it`s ^clearly . is :not in any sense in:h\uman# / 5 2 6 1100 1 1 f 11 ^\is _it# / 5 2 6 1110 1 1 m 11 but if . ^if it`s abs\urd# / 5 2 6 1120 1 1 m 11 it`s not [i i] it`s ^very !h\/umanly _so# / 5 2 6 1130 1 1 m 11 ^h\uman# / 5 2 6 1140 1 1 m 11 ((and)) it`s ^rather :f\un# / 5 2 6 1150 1 1 f 11 ^K/ennedy# / 5 2 7 1160 1 1 k 11 well ^\I would have in_terpreted# / 5 2 7 1170 1 1 k 11 [@] . ^Lord Russell`s ch/oice# / 5 2 7 1180 1 1 k 11 as ^that of a !m=an# . / 5 2 7 1190 1 1 k 11 ^who liked almost :\anyth/ing# . / 5 2 7 1200 1 1 k 11 but ^on the wh/ole# . / 5 2 7 1210 1 2 k 11 [@] pre^ferred things that were [@m] . "!not so / 5 2 7 1210 1 1 k 11 very h\uman# . / 5 2 7 1220 1 1 k 11 ^after all :mathematics . [@] :is th\inking# . / 5 2 7 1230 1 1 k 11 ^is l\ogic# / 5 2 7 1240 1 1 k 11 ^is r/easoning# - / 5 2 7 1250 1 1 k 11 ^not the :kind . 'I`m very f/ond of# . / 5 2 7 1260 1 2 k 12 al^though . [@] . I`m ^hopeless at arithmetic as a / 5 2 7 1260 1 1 k 12 matter of :fact always !h\ave _been# - / 5 2 7 1270 1 1 k 11 [@m] . but . there ^comes a "!p\oint# . / 5 2 7 1280 1 2 k 11 ^when . the :reason in mathematics be:gins to / 5 2 7 1280 1 1 k 11 "f/ail# . / 5 2 7 1290 1 1 k 11 and ^then we disc/over# . / 5 2 7 1300 1 1 k 11 as ^Gemmel s\ays# . / 5 2 7 1310 1 1 k 11 the ^human b/eing# / 5 2 7 1320 1 1 k 11 can ^do a :little !m\ore# / 5 2 7 1330 1 1 k 11 with his ^intu!\ition# . / 5 2 7 1340 1 2 k 11 when there`s "^so many variables and the / 5 2 7 1340 1 1 k 11 :mathematician is b/eaten# . / 5 2 8 1350 1 1 k 11 ^then we :come !\in# - / 5 2 8 1360 1 1 k 11 but . ^his choice :s/\urely# . / 5 2 8 1370 1 1 k 11 ^indicated . [@] :mathem\atics# . / 5 2 8 1380 1 1 k 11 for ^logic and :r\easoning# . / 5 2 8 1390 1 1 k 11 the ^s/ea# . / 5 2 8 1400 1 1 k 11 for ^peace :size exp/ansiveness# . / 5 2 8 1410 1 1 k 11 and ^heraldry . :surely was his :r\est# . / 5 2 8 1420 1 1 k 11 his ^recre\ation# . / 5 2 8 1430 1 1 k 11 ^something . [@m] . !on tram l/ines# . / 5 2 8 1440 1 1 k 11 with^out much f/uture _to _it# . / 5 2 8 1450 1 1 k 11 ^nothing :more to be disc/overed# / 5 2 8 1460 1 1 k 11 ^b\ound to _do# / 5 2 8 1470 1 2 k 11 ^surely that was his recre:ation :not his / 5 2 8 1470 1 1 k 11 :th/ought# / 5 2 8 1480 1 1 f 11 ^David D\aiches# / 5 2 8 1490 1 1 f 11 ^any f/urther _thoughts# / 5 2 8 1500 1 1 d 11 well I`d ^just like to s\ay# / 5 2 8 1510 1 2 d 11 [@] . since I ^didn`t get a chance to comment on / 5 2 8 1510 1 1 d 11 the :sea or :h\eral_dry# / 5 2 8 1520 1 1 ? 11 ^y\es# / 5 2 8 1530 1 2(d 11 [@] . that . ^those are the :two great / 5 2 8 1530 1 1(d 11 :\opposites# . / 5 2 8 1540 1 1 d 11 [@] it ^seems to :m\e# / 5 2 9 1550 1 1 d 11 [@] I a^gree of course with Professor :K\ennedy# / 5 2 9 1560 1 1 d 11 the ^sea is . ex:p=ansive# / 5 2 9 1570 1 1 d 11 ^r=estful# / 5 2 9 1580 1 1 d 11 and . [@] . a com^pletely . "!f\ormless# / 5 2 9 1590 1 1 d 11 ^natural phe:n\omenon# . / 5 2 9 1600 1 1 d 11 which en^ables you :to . ar:range your :m\ood# / 5 2 9 1610 1 1 d 11 ac^cording to how you !f\eel a_bout _it# . / 5 2 9 1620 1 2 d 11 it it`s [@ @] . ^something you could handle / 5 2 9 1620 1 1 d 11 sub:j\ectively# . / 5 2 9 1630 1 1 d 11 ^h\eraldry# / 5 2 9 1640 1 1 d 11 on the ^other h/and# . / 5 2 9 1650 1 2 d 11 ^represents . :one of the [@] . :most . se!vere / 5 2 9 1650 1 1 d 11 att\empts# . / 5 2 9 1660 1 1 d 11 ^to im:pose st\yle# / 5 2 9 1670 1 1 d 11 and ^f\orm# . / 5 2 9 1680 1 1 d 11 on ^human n\otions of _things# - / 5 2 9 1690 1 1 d 11 it`s the ^most "st\ylized# / 5 2 9 1700 1 1 d 11 of ^all the \arts# *.* / 5 2 9 1710 1 1 ? 20 *[hm]* / 5 2 9 1720 1 1 d 11 and ^we /\all# / 5 2 9 1730 1 1 d 11 ^I th\ink# . / 5 2 9 1740 1 1 d 11 ^in "!some of our m\oods# . / 5 2 9 1750 1 1 d 11 ^feel the nec\essity# / 5 2 9 1760 1 1 d 11 for ^trad=ition# / 5 2 9 1770 1 1 d 11 for ^st=yle# / 5 2 10 1780 1 1 d 11 ^for \order# . / 5 2 10 1790 1 1 d 11 ^heraldry is the :ultimate stylization of \art# / 5 2 10 1800 1 1 d 11 its ^\animals# / 5 2 10 1810 1 1 d 11 are . ^not "!r\/eally# / 5 2 10 1820 1 1 d 11 ^biological animals at :\all# . / 5 2 10 1830 1 1 d 11 [@] and ^there is !something :\in _us# / 5 2 10 1840 1 1 d 11 which which ^enj\oys# / 5 2 10 1850 1 1 d 11 and ap^pr\eciates _that# / 5 2 10 1860 1 1 d 11 the ^sea is at the :other extr\eme# *.* / 5 2 10 1870 1 1 ? 20 *[hm]* / 5 2 10 1880 1 1(d 11 ex^p=ansive# / 5 2 10 1890 1 1 d 11 and e^m=otional# / 5 2 10 1900 1 1 d 11 and . com^pletely [@:] . re:sp/\onsive# / 5 2 10 1910 1 1 d 11 to our ^own varying m\oods# / 5 2 10 1920 1 1 f 11 ^G/emmel# / 5 2 10 1930 1 1 g 11 I`m ^very sur:pr\ised _actually# / 5 2 10 1940 1 1 g 11 at ^this . quotation of R/ussell`s# - / 5 2 10 1950 1 1 g 11 be^cause . the !things he likes [bou] b\est# . / 5 2 10 1960 1 1 g 11 are ^[ei] inh/uman# . / 5 2 10 1970 1 1 g 11 and ^[bi:] ab:s\urd# - / 5 2 10 1980 1 1 g 11 now ^this strikes m/e# / 5 2 10 1990 1 1 g 11 as . ^very m\uch# . / 5 2 10 2000 1 1 g 11 a de^f\eatist /attitude# / 5 2 11 2010 1 1 g 11 and a "^fl\/ight# . / 5 2 11 2020 1 1 g 11 ^so to speak from re!\ality# - / 5 2 11 2030 1 2 g 11 because the ^things which "!sh\ould interest a man / 5 2 11 2030 1 1 g 11 m/ost# . / 5 2 11 2040 1 2 g 11 are in ^fact [dhi] . :[bihi] . !is in fact [dhi] / 5 2 11 2040 1 1 g 11 be:haviour of other :m\en# / 5 2 11 2050 1 1 g 11 and their re^actions to certain situ:\ations# - / 5 2 11 2060 1 1 g 11 and [@] . it ^ill behoves :m\/e# / 5 2 11 2070 1 1 g 11 [@?] to ^argue with Lord :R\ussell# . / 5 2 11 2080 1 1 g 11 but I "^do think this is a a ":r\/eal# / 5 2 11 2090 1 1 g 11 con^fession of :w\eakness# / 5 2 11 2100 1 1 g 11 to ^put "!th\is _forward# / 5 2 11 2110 1 1 f 11 well ^cl\early# / 5 2 11 2120 1 1 f 11 ^what we :h\ave h/ere# / 5 2 11 2130 1 1 f 11 is a . a ^very sub!j\ective# . / 5 2 11 2140 1 1 f 11 ^st\atement# . / 5 2 11 2150 1 1 f 11 ^\isn`t _it# / 5 2 11 2160 1 1 f 11 and ^I think [@] you`ve all "!f\our of y/ou# . / 5 2 11 2170 1 1 f 11 ^given your \own# . / 5 2 11 2180 1 1 f 11 sub^j\ective re/actions# / 5 2 11 2190 1 1 f 11 to ^three of these [@] . :four phe!n\omena# / 5 2 11 2200 1 1 f 11 and we`ll ^go on to the !s\econd qu/estion# . / 5 2 12 2210 1 1 f 11 ^someone de:scr\ibing hims/elf# . / 5 2 12 2220 1 1 f 11 or ^hers/elf# / 5 2 12 2230 1 1 f 11 as a ^middle-aged :v\/iewer# / 5 2 12 2240 1 1 f 11 ^writing from :F\elixst/owe# - / 5 2 12 2250 1 2 f 11 and of ^course remembering [@ . :dhi:] particular / 5 2 12 2250 1 1 f 11 "d/ay# / 5 2 12 2260 1 1 f 11 for which this ^programme is to be h/eld# / 5 2 12 2270 1 6 II 20 (with Remembrance Day with us again we are reminded/ 5 2 12 2270 1 5 II 20 of the quotation They grow not old as we who are / 5 2 12 2270 1 4 II 20 left grow old does the Brains Trust find themselves/ 5 2 12 2270 1 3 II 20 in sympathy with these sentiments or rather with / 5 2 12 2270 1 2 II 20 Browning`s that is Grow old along with me The best / 5 2 12 2270 1 1 II 20 is yet to be) / 5 2 12 2280 1 1 f 11 ^K\ennedy# / 5 2 12 2290 1 1 k 11 well - if ^we . at the end of that . w/ar# . / 5 2 12 2300 1 1 k 11 the ^first . m\ajor# / 5 2 12 2310 1 1 k 11 ^silly w/ar# / 5 2 12 2320 1 1 k 11 that ^showed that :men in the m\ass# . / 5 2 13 2330 1 1 k 11 were ^so much more :st\upid# / 5 2 13 2340 1 1 k 11 than ^single indiv/iduals# - / 5 2 13 2350 1 1 k 11 if ^we can`t . bear in m\ind# / 5 2 13 2360 1 1 k 11 on a ^day like th\is# . / 5 2 13 2370 1 1 k 11 the "^sh\ock# . / 5 2 13 2380 1 1 k 11 that they ^had at the :end of the w\ar# / 5 2 13 2390 1 1 k 11 to ^realize what they`d "d\one# . / 5 2 13 2400 1 2 k 11 and they ^realized they must :never do it / 5 2 13 2400 1 1 k 11 a:g\ain# - / 5 2 13 2410 1 1 k 11 [@] we "^must try to keep that al\ive# . / 5 2 13 2420 1 1 k 11 it ^wasn`t kept alive e!n\ough# / 5 2 13 2430 1 1 k 11 so we ^had an:other w\ar# - / 5 2 13 2440 1 1 k 11 I ^think it !shouldn`t grow /old# . / 5 2 13 2450 1 2 k 11 I ^think we should try and :get us . / 5 2 13 2450 1 1 k 11 our:s\/elves# . / 5 2 13 2460 1 1 k 11 ^once a y/ear# / 5 2 13 2470 1 1 k 11 into ^that !sp\irit# / 5 2 13 2480 1 1 k 11 and ^that`s wh/y I _think# . / 5 2 13 2490 1 1 k 11 there is ^something to be :s\aid# - - / 5 2 13 2500 1 1 k 11 for ^Armistice D\ay# / 5 2 13 2510 1 2 f 11 isn`t ^[dhi:] . 'poet a David Daiches im:pl/ying / 5 2 13 2510 1 1 f 11 _here# / 5 2 13 2520 1 1 f 11 that there is [@t] ^this conso:l\ation# / 5 2 13 2530 1 1 f 11 for ^those who :gave their l/ives# / 5 2 14 2540 1 1 f 11 in the ^w/ar# . / 5 2 14 2550 1 1 f 11 that they ^haven`t to endure old :\age# . / 5 2 14 2560 1 1 f 11 is ^that what he m/eans# / 5 2 14 2570 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# / 5 2 14 2580 1 1 d 11 I I ^th\ink# / 5 2 14 2590 1 1 d 11 though I a^gr\ee# / 5 2 14 2600 1 2 d 11 with ^what Sir [aeliksaen] says [@] :Professor / 5 2 14 2600 1 1 d 11 Alexander Kennedy :s\aid# / 5 2 14 2610 1 1 d 11 I I . I ^don`t th\ink# / 5 2 14 2620 1 1 d 11 that ^that is the :point of the :qu\estion# / 5 2 14 2630 1 1 d 11 ^r\eally# . / 5 2 14 2640 1 1 d 11 I ^think the point \is# . / 5 2 14 2650 1 1 d 11 ^is it "tr\ue# / 5 2 14 2660 1 1 d 11 that ^someone :who dies y\oung# . / 5 2 14 2670 1 1 d 11 [@] ^has . in :some w\ay# / 5 2 14 2680 1 1 d 11 a ^compens\ation# . / 5 2 14 2690 1 2 d 11 of ^not having to . :suffer . :old age and / 5 2 14 2690 1 1 d 11 dec=ay# . / 5 2 14 2700 1 1 d 11 ^like those of us who rem\ain# / 5 2 14 2710 1 1 ? 20 hear hear / 5 2 14 2720 1 1(d 11 but of ^course it`s an un:real qu\estion# . / 5 2 14 2730 1 2 d 11 be^cause [@] . :they remain :only in the minds of / 5 2 14 2730 1 1 d 11 the sur:v\ivors# / 5 2 14 2740 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 14 2750 1 1(d 11 and it is ^perfectly tr\ue# / 5 2 15 2760 1 1 d 11 we re^member . the :great poet Wilfred :\Owen# / 5 2 15 2770 1 1 d 11 who ^died in the in in the :First W\ar# . / 5 2 15 2780 1 1 d 11 [@] ^y\oung# / 5 2 15 2790 1 1 d 11 and and ^many \others# . / 5 2 15 2800 1 1 d 11 and they`re ^still young in our :m\inds# . / 5 2 15 2810 1 1 d 11 ^Rupert Br\ooke for ex_ample# . / 5 2 15 2820 1 1 d 11 [@:] ^we shall :never . re:m\ember th/em# / 5 2 15 2830 1 1 d 11 as ^we remember the old W\ordsworth# . / 5 2 15 2840 1 1 d 11 with ^failing p\owers# . / 5 2 15 2850 1 1 d 11 ^jabbering a lot of n\onsense# / 5 2 15 2860 1 1 d 11 in the in in his ^last y\ears# . / 5 2 15 2870 1 1 d 11 or ^poor old R\/uskin# / 5 2 15 2880 1 1 d 11 who ^lost his m\ind# / 5 2 15 2890 1 1 d 11 in the ^\end# . / 5 2 15 2900 1 1 d 11 [@ dh@?] per^petually :y=oung# / 5 2 15 2910 1 1 d 11 per^petually fr=esh# / 5 2 15 2920 1 1 d 11 ^if they were . sig!nificant enough at /all# . / 5 2 15 2930 1 2 d 11 to ^make their 'mark . on . the :memory of / 5 2 15 2930 1 1 d 11 post\erity# . / 5 2 15 2940 1 1 d 11 "^if they :w\/eren`t# / 5 2 15 2950 1 1 d 11 and of course ^most of us /aren`t# / 5 2 15 2960 1 2 d 11 and ^most of those who were :killed in the First / 5 2 15 2960 1 1 d 11 :W\/ar _weren`t# . / 5 2 16 2970 1 1 d 11 ^then they are rem/\embered# . / 5 2 16 2980 1 1 d 11 ^with grief . as y/\oung# . / 5 2 16 2990 1 1 d 11 and ^g/\ay# / 5 2 16 3000 1 1 d 11 and ^b/\eautiful# . / 5 2 16 3010 1 1 d 11 by ^those who surv\/ived _them# . / 5 2 16 3020 1 1 d 11 and ^when :th\ey g/o# . / 5 2 16 3030 1 1 d 11 ^that is the /\end# / 5 2 16 3040 1 1 d 11 as ^far as :m\emory _goes# / 5 2 16 3050 1 1 f 11 ^y\eah# - / 5 2 16 3060 1 1 f 11 ^Alan G\emmel# / 5 2 16 3070 1 1 f 11 it`s ^cl\ear# / 5 2 16 3080 1 1 f 11 I think that ^Daiches :doesn`t [@] . agr\/ee# / 5 2 16 3090 1 1 f 11 with . the ^Br\owning s/entiment# / 5 2 16 3100 1 1 f 11 that the . ^best of :life is the :s\econd p/art# . / 5 2 16 3110 1 1 f 11 ^what does the bi:\ologist# / 5 2 16 3120 1 1 f 11 ^say to th\at# / 5 2 16 3130 1 2 g 11 no ^I think the :best of :life for :most . / 5 2 16 3130 1 1 g 11 p\/eople# - / 5 2 16 3140 1 1 g 11 is the ^part that has :p\assed# . / 5 2 16 3150 1 1 g 11 one . ^does tend to . :look b\/ack# / 5 2 16 3160 1 1 g 11 ^rather than :f\orward _in _life# . / 5 2 17 3170 1 1 g 11 I ^think one says it was ":j\olly _good# / 5 2 17 3180 1 2 g 13 when ^I [w@] ^when I was . at [s] ^school days were/ 5 2 17 3180 1 1 g 13 the :best days of your :l\ife# . / 5 2 17 3190 1 1 g 11 ^th\is . i_dea# / 5 2 17 3200 1 1 g 11 I`m ^s\ure# . / 5 2 17 3210 1 1 g 11 in my ^\own _mind# / 5 2 17 3220 1 1 g 11 that ^this is :s\o# - / 5 2 17 3230 1 1 g 11 so ^far as the . :actual quo:t\ation# / 5 2 17 3240 1 1 g 11 is ^con:c\/erned# - / 5 2 17 3250 1 1 g 11 I ^think in a :rather :qu\eer w/ay# / 5 2 17 3260 1 1 g 11 ^this is an example of the :value of h\eraldry# . / 5 2 17 3270 1 1 g 11 I can ^hark back to the previous :qu\estion# - / 5 2 17 3280 1 1 g 11 because ^in a s\/ense# . / 5 2 17 3290 1 1 g 11 ^what a . her:aldic symbol d/oes# . / 5 2 17 3300 1 1 g 11 is ^em!body something which is con:t\inuing# . / 5 2 17 3310 1 1 g 11 it ^represents s\omething# . / 5 2 17 3320 1 1 g 11 [@] ^these people who . shall :not grow /old# - / 5 2 17 3330 1 1 g 11 in the ^same w\ay# / 5 2 17 3340 1 1 g 11 em^body a gener\ation# . / 5 2 17 3350 1 1 g 11 and al^though they`ll :never grow :physically /old#/ 5 2 18 3360 1 1 g 11 the ^point as :Daiches has s/aid# / 5 2 18 3370 1 2 g 11 is that . ^in the :minds of :those who rem/ember / 5 2 18 3370 1 1 g 11 _them# / 5 2 18 3380 1 1 g 11 they are ^y\oung# / 5 2 18 3390 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 18 3400 1 2 g 11 and ^therefore they remain a con:t\inuing / 5 2 18 3400 1 1 g 11 trad/ition# / 5 2 18 3410 1 1 g 11 ^which shall :never ch/ange# / 5 2 18 3420 1 1 g 11 be^cause it :can'not grow \old# / 5 2 18 3430 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 18 3440 1 2(g 11 and I ^much more be:lieve [dhi] - :shall not grow / 5 2 18 3440 1 1(g 11 :\old# / 5 2 18 3450 1 1 g 11 than the ^grow old along with :m\e . idea# / 5 2 18 3460 1 1 f 11 Mon^cr\eiffe# . / 5 2 18 3470 1 1 f 11 ^what d`y\ou _say# / 5 2 18 3480 1 1 m 11 well ^so much of one`s life :n\/owadays# / 5 2 18 3490 1 1 m 11 es^pecially in a :highly :civilized w/orld# / 5 2 18 3500 1 1 m 11 is a ^prepar\/ation# . / 5 2 18 3510 1 1 m 11 for when you`re ^really grown \up# . / 5 2 18 3520 1 1 m 11 which is ^always def\erred# / 5 2 18 3530 1 1 m 11 and as ^soon as one :g\ets th/ere# / 5 2 18 3540 1 2 m 11 ^one`s told one`s got to :start again at the / 5 2 18 3540 1 1 m 11 b/ottom# / 5 2 19 3550 1 1 m 11 and ^work up to something \else# . / 5 2 19 3560 1 1 m 11 so that I`m ^/all for looking \on# / 5 2 19 3570 1 1 m 11 into the ^f\uture# . / 5 2 19 3580 1 1 m 11 I ^have !great h/\opes _of _it# . / 5 2 19 3590 1 2 m 11 [@m] . and that it`ll be ^very !much better than / 5 2 19 3590 1 1 m 11 the p\ast# . / 5 2 19 3600 1 1 m 11 and I ^think it`s a little :n\aughty of _us# / 5 2 19 3610 1 1 m 11 to ^say of a lot of people who were :k\illed# . / 5 2 19 3620 1 1 m 11 by ^way of consoling our:s\elves# . / 5 2 19 3630 1 2 m 11 but of ^course it :wouldn`t have been much f\un for/ 5 2 19 3630 1 1 m 11 them r/eally# / 5 2 19 3640 1 1 m 11 they`d have ^had to get old !t\oo# / 5 2 19 3650 1 2 m 11 when . if "^w\e had been offered the choice of / 5 2 19 3650 1 1 m 11 being killed or not that m/oment# / 5 2 19 3660 1 1 m 11 we would have "^got d\own# / 5 2 19 3670 1 1 m 11 as ^low as we c\ould# / 5 2 19 3680 1 1 m 11 into the ^nearest sh/ell h\ole# / 5 2 19 3690 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 19 3700 1 1(m 11 [@m] . it [? ?] ^that !phr\ase# . / 5 2 19 3710 1 1 m 11 ^quoted th/ere# / 5 2 19 3720 1 1 m 11 is a ^conso!l\ation _phrase# / 5 2 19 3730 1 1 m 11 for the sur^v\ivors# / 5 2 19 3740 1 1 ? 11 ^qu/ite# / 5 2 20 3750 1 1(m 11 it ^wouldn`t have d\one# . / 5 2 20 3760 1 2 m 11 for [dhi] - it was ^no good offering it to one at / 5 2 20 3760 1 1 m 11 the !t\ime# / 5 2 20 3770 1 2 m 11 when ^one was in a :battle and saying well :look / 5 2 20 3770 1 1 m 11 h\ere# / 5 2 20 3780 1 2 m 11 you have the ^great consolation of not growing / 5 2 20 3780 1 1 m 11 :\old# / 5 2 20 3790 1 1 m 11 if you . ^stand up and run forward !n\ow# / 5 2 20 3800 1 1 d 11 well ^that is why I`m s\orry# . / 5 2 20 3810 1 2 d 11 ^that . that is why I was :saying that [@ . @] it`s/ 5 2 20 3810 1 1 d 11 a conso:l\ation# / 5 2 20 3820 1 1 d 11 for the . for the ^\old# . / 5 2 20 3830 1 1 d 11 [@] for the sur^v\/ivors# / 5 2 20 3840 1 1 d 11 ^rather than a !g\enuine conso_lation# / 5 2 20 3850 1 1 d 11 for ^those who were :k\illed# / 5 2 20 3860 1 1 d 11 a^bout whom nothing can be !d=one# . / 5 2 20 3870 1 2 d 11 I ^don`t think those two quotations are real / 5 2 20 3870 1 1 d 11 al!t\ernatives# *-* / 5 2 20 3880 1 1 d 11 they`re ^not alternatives at !\all# . / 5 2 21 3890 2 1 d 21 "^if / 5 2 21 3900 1 1 m 11 *they`re ^not . n\o#* / 5 2 21 3890 1 1(d 11 you are killed y/oung# . / 5 2 21 3910 1 2 d 11 ^what . possible comfort for the survivors :\is / 5 2 21 3910 1 1 d 11 _there# . / 5 2 21 3920 1 1 d 11 and the the ^comfort is w/ell# / 5 2 21 3930 1 1 d 11 at ^least we rem\ember _them# . / 5 2 21 3940 1 1 d 11 as ^y\oung# / 5 2 21 3950 1 1 d 11 be^fore they decayed and grew \old# . / 5 2 21 3960 1 1 d 11 if you are ^n\ot killed y/oung# . / 5 2 21 3970 1 1 d 11 and ^none of us :w\ants to be killed y/oung# . / 5 2 21 3980 1 1 d 11 ^there is of course the im!m\ense _challenge# / 5 2 21 3990 1 1 d 11 and ex^c/itement# . / 5 2 21 4000 1 2 d 11 of ^growing old and :making something more of your / 5 2 21 4000 1 1 d 11 !l\ife# . / 5 2 21 4010 1 1 d 11 but ^they are not al:t\ernatives# / 5 2 21 4020 1 1 f 11 ^G/emmel# / 5 2 21 4030 1 1 g 11 ^I was just going to make the :p\oint# / 5 2 21 4040 1 1 g 11 that . ^I`m s/\ure# / 5 2 22 4050 1 1 g 11 that when ^this was wr\itten# . / 5 2 22 4060 1 1 g 11 al^though it`s :wr=itten# - / 5 2 22 4070 1 1 g 11 in a ^s/ense# . / 5 2 22 4080 1 1 g 11 de^scribing the de:velopment of a m/an# / 5 2 22 4090 1 2 g 11 you know they ^went with :songs to the :battle they/ 5 2 22 4090 1 1 g 11 were :young and :s\o _on# - / 5 2 22 4100 1 1 g 11 is de^scribing the de:velopment of a m=an# / 5 2 22 4110 1 1 g 11 and ^his sudden d\eath# - / 5 2 22 4120 1 1 g 11 the ^real eff\ect# . / 5 2 22 4130 1 1 g 11 ^is not the :literal eff\ect# / 5 2 22 4140 1 1 g 11 the ^r\/eal ef_fect# / 5 2 22 4150 1 1 g 11 is the ^meta!ph\orical _one# . / 5 2 22 4160 1 1 g 11 ((it)) is the ^m\/emory# / 5 2 22 4170 1 1 g 11 which ^shall not grow \old# / 5 2 22 4180 1 1 f 11 ^y/es# / 5 2 22 4190 1 1 d 11 ^\oh _yes# / 5 2 22 4200 1 1 d 11 ^I see it !that w\ay# / 5 2 22 4210 2 2 m 22 you re^member *-* you re^member Rupert Brooke`s / 5 2 22 4210 2 1 m 22 poem / 5 2 22 4220 1 1 f 11 *^Moncr/eiffe#* / 5 2 23 4210 1 1(m 12 about :H\elen# / 5 2 23 4230 1 1 m 11 ^when she was /old# . / 5 2 23 4240 1 1 m 11 ^nagging aw\ay# / 5 2 23 4250 1 1 ? 11 ^y\es# / 5 2 23 4260 1 2(m 11 [@] . ^well . [ru] Rupert Brooke :there was / 5 2 23 4260 1 1(m 11 ex:pressing this :f\eeling# . / 5 2 23 4270 1 1 m 11 she ^shouldn`t have grown \old# / 5 2 23 4280 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 23 4290 1 1 m 11 but if "^he`d been offered the ch\oice# / 5 2 23 4300 1 1 m 11 of ^being killed or n\ot# . / 5 2 23 4310 1 1 m 11 ^do you think he`d have said w=ell# . / 5 2 23 4320 1 1 m 11 I`ve ^had the best of my l/ife# . / 5 2 23 4330 1 1 m 11 and ^/\also# . / 5 2 23 4340 1 1 m 11 ^young s\oldiers# . / 5 2 23 4350 1 1 m 11 ^killed in b\attle# . / 5 2 23 4360 1 2 m 11 ((that)) ^spent nearly !all their life in / 5 2 23 4360 1 1 m 11 prepa:r\ation# / 5 2 23 4370 1 1 m 11 ^they`d been at sch/\ool# . / 5 2 23 4380 1 1 m 12 ^they`d been [@] ^they`d been - [@] at the :d\epot#/ 5 2 23 4390 1 1 m 11 ^they`d been :tr\ained# - / 5 2 23 4400 1 1 m 11 ^they hadn`t "r/\eally# . / 5 2 23 4410 1 1 m 11 ^known and 'had l\ife# / 5 2 23 4420 1 1 m 11 as it ^is to be h\ad# / 5 2 24 4430 1 1 f 11 ^K/ennedy# / 5 2 24 4440 1 1 k 11 ^w/ell# / 5 2 24 4450 1 1 k 11 [@] I can ^quite underst\and# . / 5 2 24 4460 1 1 k 11 es^pecially m\others# . / 5 2 24 4470 1 1 k 11 [@] who ^use that kind of consol\ation# - / 5 2 24 4480 1 1 k 11 [@m] - I`m ^sure [ru] Rupert :Br\ooke# / 5 2 24 4490 1 1 k 11 ^must have acted as a . a :surrogate s/on# / 5 2 24 4500 1 1 k 11 for . ^many mothers who`ve lost p/eople# . / 5 2 24 4510 1 1 k 11 ^[bru] Rupert Br/ooke# / 5 2 24 4520 1 1 k 11 and what ^h\e might have b/een# . / 5 2 24 4530 1 1 k 11 and what ^th\eir son# / 5 2 24 4540 1 1 k 11 ^might have :b\een# - / 5 2 24 4550 1 1 k 11 but . ^on the question of . :which m\atters# . / 5 2 24 4560 1 1 k 11 the ^one that Gemmel brought \up# . / 5 2 24 4570 1 1 k 11 [@m] ^s/\urely# . / 5 2 24 4580 1 1 k 11 it`s the ^pr\esent# / 5 2 24 4590 1 1 k 11 and ^our responsibility for the !f\uture# / 5 2 24 4600 1 1 k 11 that ^m\atters# - / 5 2 24 4610 1 1 k 11 [@m] . to ^look b\ack# / 5 2 24 4620 1 1 k 11 to the ^p/ast# / 5 2 24 4630 1 2 k 11 is ^surely to :look away from your [prez] your / 5 2 24 4630 1 1 k 11 responsibility for the f/uture# . / 5 2 24 4640 1 2 k 11 and [@] . ^if we are going to prevent that kind of / 5 2 24 4640 1 1 k 11 thing happening ag/ain# / 5 2 25 4650 1 1 k 11 we`ve "^got to keep our eye on :what 'might "b\e# -/ 5 2 25 4660 1 1 k 11 and ^th/\en# / 5 2 25 4670 1 1 k 11 as to ^old =age# . / 5 2 25 4680 1 1 k 11 [@m] . ^medical sc/ience# / 5 2 25 4690 1 1 k 11 is ^keeping people :going a very long time n/ow# - / 5 2 25 4700 1 2 k 11 and we`ve ^got to . 'find some way that they shall / 5 2 25 4700 1 1 k 11 en:j\oy it# - / 5 2 25 4710 1 1 k 11 [@] I`m ^sure it can be :d\one# . / 5 2 25 4720 1 2 k 11 and ^I think that the :Browning quotation is :right/ 5 2 25 4720 1 1 k 11 t/\oo# . / 5 2 25 4730 1 1 k 11 ^for that :r\eason# . / 5 2 25 4740 1 1 k 11 that . we ^m\ust# . / 5 2 25 4750 1 1 k 11 [@] ^gr\ow with the _times# . / 5 2 25 4760 1 1 k 11 ^l\earn to grow _old# / 5 2 25 4770 1 1 k 11 because we are ^g\oing to grow _old# / 5 2 25 4780 1 1 k 11 or ^s\ome of us _are# / 5 2 25 4790 1 1 k 11 at ^\any _rate# / 5 2 25 4800 1 1 g 11 ^may I just add *:one* "w\ord# . / 5 2 25 4810 1 1 g 11 [@m] . ^I agr/\ee# / 5 2 25 4820 1 1 f 11 *^G/emmel#* / 5 2 26 4830 1 1(g 11 that ^life is lived . in the pr/esent# / 5 2 26 4840 1 1 g 11 and ^one . !works . for the f\uture# - / 5 2 26 4850 1 1 g 11 ^but - I`m :quite certain mys\elf# / 5 2 26 4860 1 1 g 11 that in a ^rather :queer w/ay# . / 5 2 26 4870 1 1 g 11 we ^draw strength from the p\ast# - / 5 2 26 4880 1 1 g 11 and ^this is 'part of the p/ast# / 5 2 26 4890 1 1 g 11 and I ^think . :this p/oem# . / 5 2 26 4900 1 1 g 11 is . ^t\eaching /us# / 5 2 26 4910 1 1 g 11 the ^kind of :strength to :dr\aw# / 5 2 26 4920 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 26 4930 1 1 g 11 one ^does get a :f\eeling# / 5 2 26 4940 1 1 g 11 of ^exultation :fr\om _it# / 5 2 26 4950 1 2 f 11 and ^you a!gree with . as . Kennedy said at the / 5 2 26 4950 1 1 f 11 be:g\/inning# / 5 2 26 4960 1 1 f 11 that - [@:] it ^is . be:c\/oming# / 5 2 26 4970 1 1 f 11 and ^necessary for us to re:m\ember . the p/ast# / 5 2 26 4980 1 1 f 11 ((as we ^show)) on this :one day in the y\ear# / 5 2 26 4990 1 1 f 21 ^have you :((ever)) / 5 2 26 5000 1 1 k 11 ^this this ((this)) . :s\/orry# / 5 2 26 5010 1 2 k 11 ^I just want to say this question is :riddled with / 5 2 26 5010 1 1 k 11 false al:t\ernatives# . / 5 2 27 5020 1 1 k 11 [@:] . ^looking to the f\/uture# / 5 2 27 5030 1 1 k 11 is "^not . [@] an al:t\ernative# / 5 2 27 5040 1 1 k 11 to ^drawing :strength from the p\ast# . / 5 2 27 5050 1 1 k 11 re^membering those who died y/oung# / 5 2 27 5060 1 1 k 11 is "^not an alt\ernative# / 5 2 27 5070 1 2 k 11 to ^realizing you can make something of your life / 5 2 27 5070 1 1 k 11 as you grow \old# . / 5 2 27 5080 1 1 k 11 they they ^march to:g\ether# . / 5 2 27 5090 1 1 k 11 it`s not ^\one# / 5 2 27 5100 1 1 k 11 "^or the \other# / 5 2 27 5110 1 1 f 11 ^have you ever thought of :this p\oint# / 5 2 27 5120 1 1 f 11 which has ^often [@:] per!pl\exed _me a _bit# - / 5 2 27 5130 1 2 f 11 ^they say the :last enemy that shall be conquered / 5 2 27 5130 1 1 f 11 is :d\eath# - / 5 2 27 5140 1 2 f 11 sup^posing the scientists in our time :c\onquer / 5 2 27 5140 1 1 f 11 _death# - - / 5 2 27 5150 1 2 f 11 [@m] ((we`ll)) have a "^long old age to look / 5 2 27 5150 1 1 f 11 :f\orward _to# . / 5 2 27 5160 1 1 f 11 ^have you ever :th\ought ab/out _it# / 5 2 28 5170 1 2 f 11 and ^whether that would . be a 'thing you`d / 5 2 28 5170 1 1 f 11 l/ike# - / 5 2 28 5180 1 1 f 11 Alec . ^what ((would we)) !d\o with _everybody# / 5 2 28 5190 1 1 f 11 in the ^w/orld# / 5 2 28 5200 1 2 ? 11 the ^thing to do is to :send ((us)) into a future / 5 2 28 5200 1 1 ? 11 :Br\ains _Trust# / 5 2 28 5210 1 1 ? 11 ^y\es# / 5 2 28 5220 1 1 ? 11 yes yes ^y/es# / 5 2 28 5230 1 1 ? 11 ^all r/ight# / 5 2 28 5240 1 1 f 12 ^I agree I :think [@m] we ^m\ust I _think# . / 5 2 28 5250 1 1 f 11 ^go on to the :n\ext _question# / 5 2 28 5260 1 1 f 20 which is from (name) / 5 2 28 5270 1 2 II 20 (when I think I think in words I talk to myself as / 5 2 28 5270 1 1 II 20 it were how did men think before speech was formed)/ 5 2 28 5280 1 1 f 11 ^Alan G\emmel# / 5 2 28 5290 1 1 g 11 oh ^d\ear# / 5 2 28 5300 1 1 g 11 [@ @] - ^this is !quite im:p\ossible# / 5 2 28 5310 1 1 g 11 ^certainly for me to :\answer# - / 5 2 28 5320 1 2 g 11 ^but - :if one !tries to draw an an:alogy from / 5 2 28 5320 1 1 g 11 \animals# - - / 5 2 29 5330 1 1 g 11 ^their !acts . which :look . th\oughtful# - / 5 2 29 5340 1 1 g 11 ^such as the !spider`s :spinning of a :w\eb# / 5 2 29 5350 1 1 g 11 or a ^bird :building of a :n\est# - / 5 2 29 5360 1 1 g 11 [@m] . are ^not really thoughtful in 'our s/ense# / 5 2 29 5370 1 1 g 11 that they`re . ^concepts . :drawn \out# . / 5 2 29 5380 1 1 g 11 of a ^large number of individual . \/items# - / 5 2 29 5390 1 2 g 11 [@n] . they`re ^concepts built in through a / 5 2 29 5390 1 1 g 11 hereditary :m\echanism# . / 5 2 29 5400 1 1 g 11 and I ^think in the be:g\/inning# . / 5 2 29 5410 1 1 g 11 ^m=an# . / 5 2 29 5420 1 1 g 11 ^must h=ave# . / 5 2 29 5430 1 1 g 11 in in^verted c=ommas# . / 5 2 29 5440 1 1 g 11 ^th\ought# - / 5 2 29 5450 1 2 g 11 ^in this sense of he !did certain things with:out / 5 2 29 5450 1 1 g 11 knowing the reason :wh\y# . / 5 2 29 5460 1 1 g 11 ^such as a !child suckling its :m\other# - / 5 2 29 5470 1 1 g 11 with^out knowing :wh\y# . / 5 2 29 5480 1 1 g 11 ^but . the !m\inute# / 5 2 29 5490 1 1 g 11 ^he was :capable of . :r\eal _thought# . / 5 2 30 5500 1 1 g 11 he was ^also capable I`m s/\ure# / 5 2 30 5510 1 1 g 11 of com^m\unicating that th/ought# / 5 2 30 5520 1 1 g 11 by ^some kind of :n\oise# . / 5 2 30 5530 1 1 g 11 not ^speech as we kn/ow _it# / 5 2 30 5540 1 1 g 11 but by ^some kind of n/oise# . / 5 2 30 5550 1 1 g 11 and ^birds :do th\is# / 5 2 30 5560 1 1 g 11 and ^animals :do th\is# / 5 2 30 5570 1 1 f 11 ^K\ennedy# / 5 2 30 5580 1 1 f 11 ^what d`:you s\ay# / 5 2 30 5590 1 2 k 11 I`m ^doubtful whether thought and communication are/ 5 2 30 5590 1 1 k 11 . :necessarily :always together like th\at# . / 5 2 30 5600 1 1 k 11 ^let me :start from the :h\uman /end# / 5 2 30 5610 1 1 k 11 as ^you started from the \animal# - / 5 2 30 5620 1 1 k 11 [@m] - ^[dhi:] . !pr\ocess# / 5 2 30 5630 1 1 k 11 of ^seeing what goes on a:b\out _one# . / 5 2 30 5640 1 1 k 11 and in^t\erpreting _it# . / 5 2 30 5650 1 1 k 11 com^paring it with :pr\evious _things# . / 5 2 30 5660 1 1 k 11 "^all that makes up a :t\otal# . / 5 2 30 5670 1 1 k 11 ^and . the !s\omething# / 5 2 31 5680 1 1 k 11 which is ^not the sum of the p/arts# . / 5 2 31 5690 1 1 k 11 is ^th\ought# . / 5 2 31 5700 1 1 k 11 the ^difference between men and :\animals# / 5 2 31 5710 1 1 k 11 ^s\urely# . / 5 2 31 5720 1 1 k 11 is ^not therefore that :one . group . th\inks# . / 5 2 31 5730 1 1 k 11 the ^other d/oesn`t# . / 5 2 31 5740 1 2 k 11 ^but that [@m - @] . :one thinks !m\ore than the / 5 2 31 5740 1 1 k 11 _other# / 5 2 31 5750 1 1 k 11 that how^ever :l\/ittle# / 5 2 31 5760 1 2 k 13 there ^must be !s\ome ^s\ome . [w] ^something which/ 5 2 31 5760 1 1 k 13 is more than the p/arts# / 5 2 31 5770 1 1 k 11 ^even in the :\animal# . / 5 2 31 5780 1 1 k 11 ^even the animal im:printing an i:d\/ea# . / 5 2 31 5790 1 1 k 11 and ^bringing it out on a later occ/asion# / 5 2 31 5800 1 1 k 11 ^that is a :process of !th\ought# . / 5 2 31 5810 1 1 k 11 and . ^l\ater# . / 5 2 31 5820 1 3 k 11 ^with this tre!mendous ac:celeration of the / 5 2 31 5820 1 2 k 11 :thinking process and the . de:velopment of the / 5 2 31 5820 1 1 k 11 br/ain# . / 5 2 31 5830 1 1 k 11 [@m] - "^then come the specialized w/ays# . / 5 2 31 5840 1 2 k 11 and . the ^linking of thought to [k@] to / 5 2 31 5840 1 1 k 11 communi!c\ation# . / 5 2 32 5850 1 1 k 11 ^but . "s/\urely# . / 5 2 32 5860 1 1 k 12 you ^can . it is ^necessary to :th\ink# . / 5 2 32 5870 1 1 k 11 as ^well as com!m\unicate# . / 5 2 32 5880 1 1 k 11 to ^think with!\out com_municating# . / 5 2 32 5890 1 1 k 11 and there are ^many !p\eople# . / 5 2 32 5900 1 1 k 11 [@] who ^don`t . think in w/\ords# . / 5 2 32 5910 1 1 k 11 but who ^think in !\abstracts# / 5 2 32 5920 1 1 f 11 ^this is quite !c\ommon in _your _view# / 5 2 32 5930 1 1 f 11 ^/is _it# / 5 2 32 5940 1 2 k 11 well I ^think people who are going to create / 5 2 32 5940 1 1 k 11 anything n/\ew# / 5 2 32 5950 1 1 k 11 to de^velop a :n\ew i_dea# . / 5 2 32 5960 1 2 k 11 which is ^not . on the present !tr\amlines of / 5 2 32 5960 1 1 k 11 communic/ation# . / 5 2 32 5970 1 1 k 11 have "^g\ot to do th/at# / 5 2 32 5980 1 1 ? 11 ^I s/ee# / 5 2 32 5990 1 1 f 11 ^D\aiches# / 5 2 32 6000 1 1 f 11 what`s ^y\our _view# / 5 2 33 6010 1 1 d 11 well I think ^anyone who has r\ead# / 5 2 33 6020 1 1 d 11 [@] ^Statio Lorenzi`s book King Solomon`s :R\ing# ./ 5 2 33 6030 1 1 d 11 ^knows that :animals :d\o# / 5 2 33 6040 1 1 d 11 ^th\ink# / 5 2 33 6050 1 1 d 11 ^in a :s\ense# . / 5 2 33 6060 1 1 d 11 and ^also do com!m\unicate# . / 5 2 33 6070 1 1 d 11 but ^on the other :h\and# / 5 2 33 6080 1 1 d 11 ^\obviously# . / 5 2 33 6090 1 1 d 11 the a^mount of :th\ought# / 5 2 33 6100 1 1 d 11 and the . a^mount of communi:c\ation# / 5 2 33 6110 1 1 d 11 is se^verely :l\imited# . / 5 2 33 6120 1 1 d 11 [@] with^out l\anguage# . / 5 2 33 6130 1 1 d 11 the ^more . you . de!v\elop# . / 5 2 33 6140 1 1 d 11 ^in in bio!logical :human progr\ession# . / 5 2 33 6150 1 1 d 11 the ^more your a:b\/ility# . / 5 2 33 6160 1 1 d 11 ^to . !g\/eneralize# . / 5 2 33 6170 1 2 d 11 ^to make !large conclusions about particular / 5 2 33 6170 1 1 d 11 :c\ases# . / 5 2 33 6180 1 1 d 11 in . in ^very !pr\imitive l/anguages# / 5 2 33 6190 1 2 d 11 you have a ^dozen different words for the :same / 5 2 33 6190 1 1 d 11 :th\ing# . / 5 2 33 6200 1 1 d 11 whether it`s a ^subject or an :\object# . / 5 2 33 6210 1 3 d 11 whether you ^see your :mother-in-law coming / 5 2 33 6210 1 2 d 11 tow/ards _you or whether she`s going aw\ay from / 5 2 33 6210 1 1 d 11 _you# / 5 2 34 6220 1 1 d 11 it`s a ^different !w\ord# . / 5 2 34 6230 1 2 d 11 the a^bility to use the same word to cover lots of / 5 2 34 6230 1 1 d 11 different :c\ases# . / 5 2 34 6240 1 1 d 11 is the ^first st\ep# . / 5 2 34 6250 1 1 d 11 ^towards . syllo!gistic th\inking# . / 5 2 34 6260 1 1 d 11 [t@wo:] ^towards !drawing con:cl\usions# / 5 2 34 6270 1 1 d 11 from par^t\iculars# . / 5 2 34 6280 1 1 d 11 in ^that s\ense# . / 5 2 34 6290 1 2 d 11 I ^think . !any [@?] ability to !think / 5 2 34 6290 1 1 d 11 l\ogically# . / 5 2 34 6300 1 1 d 11 [@:] . re^qu\/ires# . / 5 2 34 6310 1 1 d 11 [dhi:] . the ^use of l\anguage# . / 5 2 34 6320 1 2 d 11 on the ^other hand there is . :meta!ph\orical / 5 2 34 6320 1 1 d 11 _thinking# . / 5 2 34 6330 1 2 d 11 ^Shelley once said in the :youth of the [w@:d] / 5 2 34 6330 1 1 d 11 w=orld# / 5 2 34 6340 1 1 d 11 ^all language was meta!ph\orical# . / 5 2 34 6350 1 1 d 11 when you ^see things as :\other _things# . / 5 2 34 6360 1 1 d 11 they are ^not "r\eally _other _things# . / 5 2 34 6370 1 1 d 11 you ^see the rising sun as a :g\od# . / 5 2 35 6380 1 1 d 11 you ^know he !\isn`t a _god# . / 5 2 35 6390 1 1 d 11 but to ^th\ink of the rising sun as a g/od# . / 5 2 35 6400 1 4 d 11 ex^plains something about the :human feeling about / 5 2 35 6400 1 3 d 11 a :new day coming and the excitement of . [@] . of / 5 2 35 6400 1 2 d 11 of of the re:currence of the seasons and :all / 5 2 35 6400 1 1 d 11 th\at# - / 5 2 35 6410 1 2 d 11 [m@] meta^phorical thinking is . !quite / 5 2 35 6410 1 1 d 11 d\ifferent# . / 5 2 35 6420 1 2 d 11 ^from !what one might call syllo:gistic or / 5 2 35 6420 1 1 d 11 :l\ogical th/inking# . / 5 2 35 6430 1 1 d 11 in the ^great poets the :two ((merge)) tog\ether# -/ 5 2 35 6440 1 1 d 11 ^man`s !greatest contribution of :\all# / 5 2 35 6450 1 1 d 11 I ^th\ink# . / 5 2 35 6460 1 1 d 11 ^is that !he can com!b\ine# . / 5 2 35 6470 1 1 d 11 meta^ph\orical _thinking# . / 5 2 35 6480 1 1 d 11 ^seeing one thing as an:\other# / 5 2 35 6490 1 1 d 11 ^which it !\isn`t# . / 5 2 35 6500 1 1 d 11 but if we ^think that it :=is# . / 5 2 35 6510 1 2 d 11 we ^get a certain . !new kind of :insight into what/ 5 2 35 6510 1 1 d 11 :both really \are# - / 5 2 36 6520 1 1 d 11 and at the ^same t\ime# . / 5 2 36 6530 1 2 d 11 being ^able to use :logic . :language . / 5 2 36 6530 1 1 d 11 :l\ogically# . / 5 2 36 6540 1 2 d 11 the ^two together produce the greatest kinds of / 5 2 36 6540 1 1 d 11 :l\iterature# / 5 2 36 6550 1 1 d 11 which is ^purely h\uman# / 5 2 36 6560 1 1 d 11 ((and)) ^animals can`t do that at \all# / 5 2 36 6570 1 1 f 11 ^Moncr/eiffe# / 5 2 36 6580 1 1 m 11 ^w/\ell# . / 5 2 36 6590 1 2 m 11 ^firstly I a:gree with the :questioner that / 5 2 36 6590 1 1 m 11 w/\ords# / 5 2 36 6600 1 2 m 11 ^play an e!normous part in :raising us above the / 5 2 36 6600 1 1 m 11 :\/animals# - / 5 2 36 6610 1 2 m 11 ^obviously !once words had been :f\ormulated by / 5 2 36 6610 1 1 m 11 m/en# . / 5 2 36 6620 1 1 m 12 ^one ^they can ex!press their th/oughts# . / 5 2 36 6630 1 1 m 11 com^municate them to each \/other# . / 5 2 36 6640 1 1 m 11 ^t\/abulate _them# / 5 2 36 6650 1 1 m 11 and and and ^tidy them away much more !\easily# . / 5 2 36 6660 1 1 m 11 and ^I think that !wr\iting# . / 5 2 36 6670 1 1 m 11 is the ^n\ext big st/ep# / 5 2 37 6680 1 2 m 11 be^cause you can then write !d\own your / 5 2 37 6680 1 1 m 11 th/oughts# . / 5 2 37 6690 1 3 m 11 and . ^hold them back ((to)) :look at again or / 5 2 37 6690 1 2 m 11 :pass them on to other people after you`re / 5 2 37 6690 1 1 m 11 :d\ead# - / 5 2 37 6700 1 2 m 11 "^but . I`d I :think that be:fore words were / 5 2 37 6700 1 1 m 11 inv\ented# . / 5 2 37 6710 1 1 m 11 ^men thought quite !simply in !p\ictures# . / 5 2 37 6720 1 1 m 11 as one ^does very !m\uch# . / 5 2 37 6730 1 1 m 11 you ^smell a sm\ell# . / 5 2 37 6740 1 1 m 11 which re^minds you of . your sch/ool _days# . / 5 2 37 6750 1 1 m 11 or of . you ^hear a a :t/une# / 5 2 37 6760 1 1 m 11 which re^minds you at :/once# . / 5 2 37 6770 1 1 m 11 ^scenes !flash into you m\ind# - / 5 2 37 6780 1 2 m 12 and ^a [s@:t] a ^great deal of one`s thinking is / 5 2 37 6780 1 1 m 12 :d\one# - / 5 2 37 6790 1 1 m 11 in ^\images# - / 5 2 37 6800 1 2 m 11 ^now . [dh] this . :special mumbo jumbo absurdity / 5 2 37 6800 1 1 m 11 that ":heralds go :\/in _for# - / 5 2 37 6810 1 1 m 11 is ^very much conc/\erned# . / 5 2 37 6820 1 1 m 11 ^with . [dhi] !use of these \images# - / 5 2 38 6830 1 2 m 11 for ex^ample [@] as [@m] :Daiches :s\aid just / 5 2 38 6830 1 1 m 11 n/ow# - / 5 2 38 6840 1 1 m 11 the ^sun can be a g/\od# . / 5 2 38 6850 1 1 m 11 ^people know it :\/isn`t# . / 5 2 38 6860 1 2 m 11 but there it it ^symbolizes . a particular . / 5 2 38 6860 1 1 m 11 :life-giving !f\orce# - / 5 2 38 6870 1 1 m 11 [dh@?] the ^m\/oon# . / 5 2 38 6880 1 1 m 11 ^which is a cr/escent# . / 5 2 38 6890 1 1 m 11 ^looks like the horns of a c/ow# . / 5 2 38 6900 1 1 m 11 a ^cow gives milk to . mank/ind# . / 5 2 38 6910 1 2 m 11 ^therefore - [dh] the :cow . the :moon can :both / 5 2 38 6910 1 1 m 11 symbolize a :qu\een# / 5 2 38 6920 1 1 m 11 or a ^g\oddess# / 5 2 38 6930 1 1 m 11 in ^h\eraldry# - / 5 2 38 6940 1 1 m 11 and ^s\o _on# / 5 2 38 6950 1 1 m 11 and ^s\o _forth# - / 5 2 38 6960 1 1 m 11 ^these are :visual th/ings# / 5 2 38 6970 1 1 m 11 you don`t ^need words to con:v\ey _them# . / 5 2 38 6980 1 2 m 11 and ^countries as far apart as :China . and / 5 2 38 6980 1 1 m 11 W/\ales# - / 5 2 38 6990 1 2 m 11 will ^use the dragon to con:vey . basically the / 5 2 38 6990 1 1 m 11 same !c\oncepts# / 5 2 38 7000 1 1 ? 20 [hm] / 5 2 38 7010 1 1(m 11 - without ^\any _word((s))# . / 5 2 39 7020 1 1 m 11 "^and I bel/ieve# . / 5 2 39 7030 1 1 m 11 that . in [dzh@] ^Japanese and in :Ch\/inese# . / 5 2 39 7040 1 2 m 11 [dh@] that . [dh@ . @] . when when the ^Japanese / 5 2 39 7040 1 1 m 11 took the Chinese :scr\ipt# . / 5 2 39 7050 1 1 m 11 they at^tached their own w/\ords# / 5 2 39 7060 1 2 m 11 to the . the . ^[id . id - id . id id id id] / 5 2 39 7060 1 1 m 11 /ideographs# . / 5 2 39 7070 1 1 m 11 and ^that symbol which is the :s\un# / 5 2 39 7080 1 1 m 11 will be ^ni in Japan/ese# / 5 2 39 7090 1 1 m 11 and ((`ll)) be ^something else in Ch/\inese# . / 5 2 39 7100 1 1 m 11 the ^w\ords are d/ifferent# / 5 2 39 7110 1 1 m 11 but the ^\image is the s/ame# / 5 2 39 7120 1 1 m 11 it`s the ^s\un# / 5 2 39 7130 1 1 f 11 ^even within the Chi!n\ese _language# / 5 2 39 7140 1 1 f 11 you ^get !quite different :s\/ounds# . / 5 2 39 7150 1 1 f 11 ^d\on`t _you# . / 5 2 39 7160 1 1 f 11 for the ^same th\ing# / 5 2 39 7170 1 1 ? 11 for the ^same th\ing# / 5 2 39 7180 1 1 f 11 ^K/ennedy# / 5 2 40 7190 1 2 k 11 ^I`m not too :happy about this lauding of / 5 2 40 7190 1 1 k 11 l\anguage# - / 5 2 40 7200 1 1 k 11 ^when man acquired l\anguage# . / 5 2 40 7210 1 1 k 11 ^he acquired a !pr\ison# - / 5 2 40 7220 1 1 k 11 and that is ^very difficult to esc\ape _from# - / 5 2 40 7230 1 1 k 11 ^after =all# - / 5 2 40 7240 1 1 k 11 [@] as ^Daiches has s\aid# - / 5 2 40 7250 1 1 k 11 [@m] . ^understand things in terms of l/anguage# . / 5 2 40 7260 1 1 k 11 ^build things in terms of l/anguage# . / 5 2 40 7270 1 1 k 11 ^s/ymbols# . / 5 2 40 7280 1 1 k 11 ^and you produce l\iterature# . / 5 2 40 7290 1 2 k 11 [@m] . but ^if you want to produce something . / 5 2 40 7290 1 1 k 11 which is . [@m] . :cosmically . :n\ew# - / 5 2 40 7300 1 1 k 11 you`ve ^got to have :s\/omething# . / 5 2 40 7310 1 1 k 11 you`ve ^got to get out!side [dhi:] . l\anguage# . / 5 2 40 7320 1 2 k 11 you`ve ^got to try other languages like / 5 2 40 7320 1 1 k 11 mathem/atics# . / 5 2 40 7330 1 1 k 11 and ^then . beaten th\/ere# . / 5 2 40 7340 1 1 k 11 ^sheer th\ought# . / 5 2 40 7350 1 1 k 11 ^after all :K\epler# . / 5 2 40 7360 1 1 k 11 ^in 'his t\ime# / 5 2 40 7370 1 1 k 11 said . [@] . ^what !\I have underst/ood# . / 5 2 41 7380 1 2 k 11 [@m - @m] . ^no one can . will be :able to take in / 5 2 41 7380 1 1 k 11 at the :m\/oment# / 5 2 41 7390 1 1 k 11 but ^future generations will under:st\and _it# . / 5 2 41 7400 1 1 k 11 ^no "l\anguage could have _given him# . / 5 2 41 7410 1 1 k 11 ^no system of :s\ymbols could have _given him# / 5 2 41 7420 1 1 k 11 that ^th/\ought# . / 5 2 41 7430 1 1 k 11 ^that was !abstract th/\ought# . / 5 2 41 7440 1 1 k 11 and ^only through :th\at# / 5 2 41 7450 1 1 k 11 ^I th/ink# / 5 2 41 7460 1 1 k 11 ^can we make the great st\eps# / 5 2 41 7470 1 1 f 11 ^Alan G\emmel# / 5 2 41 7480 1 1 g 11 this - my ^point really is th\is# - / 5 2 41 7490 1 1 g 11 that "^if you`re going to have th\ought# - / 5 2 41 7500 1 1 g 11 the ^organism which !\is _thinking# / 5 2 41 7510 1 1 g 11 in ^this case m\an# - / 5 2 41 7520 1 1 g 11 ^must be able to :abstr\act# . / 5 2 41 7530 1 1 g 11 you know - "^from the t\able# . / 5 2 41 7540 1 1 g 11 the "^idea of the table with\in _him# - / 5 2 41 7550 1 1 g 11 now "^this is the process of :th\ought# . / 5 2 42 7560 1 1 g 11 as in its . ^one of its s\enses# - / 5 2 42 7570 1 1 g 11 "^if in f\act# - / 5 2 42 7580 1 1 g 11 ^man . de!velops as an \organism# - / 5 2 42 7590 1 2 g 11 he has ^got to have :some means of / 5 2 42 7590 1 1 g 11 com:m\/unicating# . / 5 2 42 7600 1 1 g 11 "^this th\ought# . / 5 2 42 7610 1 1 g 11 to his ^fellow m\an# . / 5 2 42 7620 1 1 g 11 he ^cannot . hand him a t\able# - / 5 2 42 7630 1 1 g 11 ^therefore he has to evoke :some kind of \image# . / 5 2 42 7640 1 1 g 11 be it a ^p/icture# . / 5 2 42 7650 1 1 g 11 be it a ^written w/ord# . / 5 2 42 7660 1 1 g 11 or ^be it a s\ound# - / 5 2 42 7670 1 1 g 11 and I think ^therefore when :m=an# . / 5 2 42 7680 1 1 g 11 ^really became :m=an# / 5 2 42 7690 1 1 g 11 and ^stopped being a :b\east# - / 5 2 42 7700 1 1 g 11 ^these two characteristics were th\ere# . / 5 2 42 7710 1 1 g 11 and they`re ^very closely t\ied# / 5 2 42 7720 1 1 f 11 well ^shall we :s\ay to Mr Guthridge th/en# / 5 2 42 7730 1 1 f 11 that [dhi:] . ^brief answer to this qu/estion# / 5 2 42 7740 1 1 f 11 ^h\ow men thought before speech was f/ormed# . / 5 2 43 7750 1 2 f 11 ^will be obtained . by the :study of the higher / 5 2 43 7750 1 1 f 11 \/animals# / 5 2 43 7760 1 1 f 11 and ^how they comm\unicate# / 5 2 43 7770 1 1 f 11 is ^that [bi:] a fair /answer# / 5 2 43 7780 1 6 II 20 (when one thinks of the thousands of ancestors / 5 2 43 7780 1 5 II 20 who`ve had a hand in our making we ought not to be / 5 2 43 7780 1 4 II 20 unduly surprised when our children do not resemble / 5 2 43 7780 1 3 II 20 us in appearance or character couldn`t the / 5 2 43 7780 1 2 II 20 genealogist be of service here to the biologist and/ 5 2 43 7780 1 1 II 20 the psychologist) / 5 2 43 7790 1 1 f 11 ^Sir Ian Moncr\eiffe# / 5 2 43 7800 1 2 m 11 well the ^first thing that :any biologist I think / 5 2 43 7800 1 1 m 11 will point :\out to _you# . / 5 2 43 7810 1 2 m 11 is that you have ^so "many . :different / 5 2 43 7810 1 1 m 11 /ancestors# . / 5 2 43 7820 1 3 m 11 that ^[dhi:] a!mount any particular ancestor . / 5 2 43 7820 1 2 m 11 :further back than your great-grand[k]arents goes / 5 2 43 7820 1 1 m 11 towards your :m\ake-up# . / 5 2 44 7830 1 1 m 11 is ^very difficult to [@m . @] ass/ess# . / 5 2 44 7840 1 1 m 11 and ^may be almost !n\egligible# - / 5 2 44 7850 1 1 m 11 "^but . one :must remember !tw\o _things# / 5 2 44 7860 1 1 m 11 I ^th\ink# . / 5 2 44 7870 1 1 m 11 ^f\/irstly# . / 5 2 44 7880 1 2 m 11 that ^what character . what :physical . b\ody you / 5 2 44 7880 1 1 m 11 h/ave# / 5 2 44 7890 1 2 m 11 and to ^some extent what :ch\aracter you / 5 2 44 7890 1 1 m 11 poss/ess# . / 5 2 44 7900 1 2 m 11 to the extent that your . "^l\iver shall we say / 5 2 44 7900 1 1 m 11 moulds your ch/aracter# . / 5 2 44 7910 1 1 m 11 ^is inh/\erited# / 5 2 44 7920 1 1 m 11 it ^m\ust _be# / 5 2 44 7930 1 2 m 12 and it ^must come from [dhi] . bulk it ^comes !\out/ 5 2 44 7930 1 1 m 12 of your /ancestors# / 5 2 44 7940 1 1 m 11 out of the ^b\ulk of _them# . / 5 2 44 7950 1 1 m 11 the ^second thing is th/\is# . / 5 2 44 7960 1 1 m 11 and I ^think we should never forg\et _it# . / 5 2 44 7970 1 2 m 11 the ^only !physical immor:tality we :have in this / 5 2 44 7970 1 1 m 11 :w\/orld# / 5 2 45 7980 1 2 m 11 is the ^spark of life which we :can hand on to our / 5 2 45 7980 1 1 m 11 ch/\ildren# . / 5 2 45 7990 1 1 m 11 and which ^they can hand on . for /\ever# . / 5 2 45 8000 1 1 m 11 in^d/\efinitely# . / 5 2 45 8010 1 1 m 11 and with^out any !\one of your /ancestors# . / 5 2 45 8020 1 1 m 11 you ^could not ex!\ist# . / 5 2 45 8030 1 1 m 11 ^now . you have !two p/arents# / 5 2 45 8040 1 1 m 11 ^four grandp/arents# / 5 2 45 8050 1 1 m 11 ^eight great-grandp/arents# . / 5 2 45 8060 1 1 m 11 by the ^time you get b/ack# . / 5 2 45 8070 1 1 m 11 ^even to the :ten h/\undreds# / 5 2 45 8080 1 1 m 11 you ^get into the m/\illions# . / 5 2 45 8090 1 1 m 11 and ^nearly everybody in this :c\/ountry# . / 5 2 45 8100 1 1 m 11 will ^have a descent from :certain fixed :f\igures#/ 5 2 45 8110 1 2 m 11 shall we ^say . [@ @ @m @] . !most Scottish people / 5 2 45 8110 1 1 m 11 I`m :quite sure descend from Malcolm Canm/\ore# . / 5 2 45 8120 1 1 m 11 I should say ^ninety-nine per !c\ent of _people# . / 5 2 45 8130 1 1 m 11 ^Sc\ottish _people# . / 5 2 45 8140 1 1 m 11 de^scend from Malcolm Canm/ore# / 5 2 46 8150 1 1 m 11 ^not \all# / 5 2 46 8160 1 1 m 11 but ^\almost _all# . / 5 2 46 8170 1 2 m 11 ^now [pi? pi?@] . :people say :what`s it :what`s / 5 2 46 8170 1 1 m 11 that s\ignify# / 5 2 46 8180 1 1 m 11 it ^doesn`t m/atter# . / 5 2 46 8190 1 1 m 11 ^everybody 'else sh/ows this de_scent# / 5 2 46 8200 1 1 m 11 to which the ^answer is . !tw\ofold# . / 5 2 46 8210 1 1 m 11 ^f/\irstly# . / 5 2 46 8220 1 1 m 11 ^if Malcolm Canmore had :never :l\ived# / 5 2 46 8230 1 1 m 11 ^or had died in ch\ildhood# . / 5 2 46 8240 1 1 m 11 ^nobody in Scotland tod/\ay# / 5 2 46 8250 1 1 m 11 ^could have been !l\iving# . / 5 2 46 8260 1 1 m 11 there ^would no doubt have been !people l/iving# / 5 2 46 8270 1 1 m 11 but they ^wouldn`t have been the !s\ame _people# . / 5 2 46 8280 1 1 m 11 because if you ^knock out !one link in a ch/ain# . / 5 2 46 8290 1 1 m 11 the "^whole chain falls to the gr\ound# . / 5 2 46 8300 1 1 m 11 and ^th\/erefore# . / 5 2 46 8310 1 1 m 11 ^\I _think# / 5 2 46 8320 1 2 m 11 we should . re^member those of our ancestors / 5 2 46 8320 1 1 m 11 ((that)) we can find \out ab/out# / 5 2 46 8330 1 1 m 11 and ^take an \/interest in _them# . / 5 2 47 8340 1 1 m 11 because "^\/out of _them# / 5 2 47 8350 1 1 m 11 came ^everything that we /\are# / 5 2 47 8360 1 1 f 11 ^thank you very m/uch# / 5 2 47 8370 1 1 f 11 ^let`s ask the psy:ch\ologist# / 5 2 47 8380 1 1 k 11 ^well . I !think the answer to :this qu/estion# . / 5 2 47 8390 1 1 k 11 [@m] the ^question p\ut# . / 5 2 47 8400 1 1 k 11 ^can the gene:=alogist# . / 5 2 47 8410 1 1 k 11 ^help the psy:ch=ologist# . / 5 2 47 8420 1 1 k 11 ^help the gen=eticist# . / 5 2 47 8430 1 1 k 11 is ^very much y\es# . / 5 2 47 8440 1 1 k 11 what`s ^m\/ore# / 5 2 47 8450 1 2 k 11 it`s in the ^forefront of genetics at this / 5 2 47 8450 1 1 k 11 m/\oment# - / 5 2 47 8460 1 3 k 11 and [@m . @:] . ^just 'as . if you :want to know / 5 2 47 8460 1 2 k 11 something about a person`s . psycho:logical / 5 2 47 8460 1 1 k 11 character/istics# . / 5 2 47 8470 1 1 k 11 that ^may have been inh/erited# . / 5 2 47 8480 1 3 k 11 [@m] . well the ^best studies are those that have / 5 2 47 8480 1 2 k 11 been :done on com:munities living on small / 5 2 47 8480 1 1 k 11 /islands# / 5 2 48 8490 1 1 k 11 where they ^all interm/arry# / 5 2 48 8500 1 1 k 11 and the ^whole show is . somewhat pre:d\ictable# - / 5 2 48 8510 1 1 k 11 ^well now . !if you take the :gr\eat _families# . / 5 2 48 8520 1 1 k 11 in ^which . there`s a :certain predictab/ility# / 5 2 48 8530 1 1 k 11 a ^certain limit/ation# / 5 2 48 8540 1 2 k 11 in [dhi @] ^field from which they :choose their / 5 2 48 8540 1 1 k 11 m/ates# . / 5 2 48 8550 1 1 k 11 you ^can pick !up these th\ings# . / 5 2 48 8560 1 1 k 11 ^now . the !thing that interests :m\e so _much# . / 5 2 48 8570 1 2 k 11 ^is that [@m] . you !sometimes find in . / 5 2 48 8570 1 1 k 11 h/istory# . / 5 2 48 8580 1 2 k 11 [@] ^take [dhi: @m . @m . @] . :[dhi:] example . of/ 5 2 48 8580 1 1 k 11 . [@:] :p=eople# . / 5 2 48 8590 1 1 k 11 [@] ^who in the special forces during the w/ar# / 5 2 48 8600 1 1 k 11 you re^member David !Stirling you s/ee# . / 5 2 48 8610 1 2 k 11 [@m . @] . ^had . a . sort of . :joyous approach to/ 5 2 48 8610 1 1 k 11 s/abotage# . / 5 2 48 8620 1 1 k 11 [@m] . they . ^found out new ways to 'do th/ings# / 5 2 49 8630 1 1 k 11 ^new kinds of w\arfare# . / 5 2 49 8640 1 1 k 11 ^look ((it)) back in their h/istory# . / 5 2 49 8650 1 2 k 11 and . ^you find that . :ancestors of [@ dh@] / 5 2 49 8650 1 1 k 11 th/eirs# / 5 2 49 8660 1 2 k 11 have ^done . something of very much the same / 5 2 49 8660 1 1 k 11 k/\ind# . / 5 2 49 8670 1 1 k 11 now if you ^take rather pe!c\uliar _traits# . / 5 2 49 8680 1 1 k 11 abnor^m\alities# . / 5 2 49 8690 1 1 k 11 they ^\also _tend to _run in _families# . / 5 2 49 8700 1 1 k 11 and ^I think the gene:\/alogist# . / 5 2 49 8710 1 1 k 11 by ^telling us something about the :d\/etail# . / 5 2 49 8720 1 1 k 11 of ^some of the . !families that`ve . :br\ed# / 5 2 49 8730 1 1 k 11 in this ^rather re:stricted w/ay# . / 5 2 49 8740 1 1 k 11 are ^g\oing to be _able to _help us# / 5 2 49 8750 1 1 k 11 ^psychol\ogically# / 5 2 49 8760 1 1 f 11 and ^now the bi!\/ologist# / 5 2 49 8770 1 1 f 11 ^Alan G\emmel# / 5 2 49 8780 1 2 g 11 well I was just ^thinking that if the !questioner / 5 2 49 8780 1 1 g 11 went to the :Tate . M\useum# . / 5 2 49 8790 1 1 g 11 in ^L\ondon# - / 5 2 49 8800 1 2 g 11 and ^had a look at the :portraits of the :kings and/ 5 2 49 8800 1 1 g 11 :queens of :\England# - / 5 2 50 8810 1 2 g 11 you can ^see a !wonderful example of in:heritance / 5 2 50 8810 1 1 g 11 of :eye c\olour# . / 5 2 50 8820 1 1 g 11 with^in these p\ortraits# . / 5 2 50 8830 1 2 g 11 be^cause your !brown and :non-brown eyes are / 5 2 50 8830 1 1 g 11 inh\erited# - / 5 2 50 8840 1 2 g 11 and . from the . ^sheer . ex:amining of this . / 5 2 50 8840 1 1 g 11 genea:logical table in p\aint# . / 5 2 50 8850 1 2 g 11 you can de^duce a :number of Mendel`s !pr\inciples / 5 2 50 8850 1 1 g 11 in _fact# - / 5 2 50 8860 1 1 g 11 if you ^look at our !present royal f/amily# - / 5 2 50 8870 1 2 g 11 [@m] you can ^see the thing which is known in . / 5 2 50 8870 1 1 g 11 gen/etics# / 5 2 50 8880 1 1 g 11 as the ^Habsburg :l\ip# - / 5 2 50 8890 1 1 g 11 ^which is a . a !type of :mouth str/ucture# . / 5 2 50 8900 1 2 g 11 which is which ^was characteristic of the / 5 2 50 8900 1 1 g 11 H/absburgs# / 5 2 50 8910 1 3 g 11 and which`s ap^peared in all [dhi] . :families / 5 2 50 8910 1 2 g 11 which`ve either :stemmed 'from it or married !\into/ 5 2 50 8910 1 1 g 11 that _family# - / 5 2 51 8920 1 1 g 11 and . ^c\ertainly# . / 5 2 51 8930 1 1 g 11 from ^large number of genealogical :t\/ables# - / 5 2 51 8940 1 1 g 11 ^nearly "!\all# / 5 2 51 8950 1 2 g 11 that is ^known about human genetics has been / 5 2 51 8950 1 1 g 11 :dr\awn# - / 5 2 51 8960 1 1 g 11 ^they may not be r=oyal _families# / 5 2 51 8970 1 1 g 11 they`re - ^well-known families of m/\orons# / 5 2 51 8980 1 1 g 11 like . the ^Callicocks in A:m\erica# . / 5 2 51 8990 1 2 g 11 who ^cost the United States !millions of dollars in/ 5 2 51 8990 1 1 g 11 mental de:f\iciency# / 5 2 51 9000 1 1 g 11 and ^\alcoholism and _so on# - / 5 2 51 9010 1 2 g 11 ^certainly biology has an !awful lot to learn from / 5 2 51 9010 1 1 g 11 gene\alogy# / 5 2 51 9020 1 1 f 11 ^David !D\aiches# / 5 2 51 9030 1 1 f 11 are ^you going to comment on this t/oo# / 5 2 51 9040 1 1 d 11 ^well [@ . @] . I :just want to make !tw\o _points#/ 5 2 52 9050 1 2 d 11 the ^first is . if you have a suf!ficiently / 5 2 52 9050 1 1 d 11 :limited and con:trolled comm\unity# . / 5 2 52 9060 1 1 d 11 ^obviously I should :th\ink# / 5 2 52 9070 1 2 d 11 the psy^chologist and [dh@m] and the . / 5 2 52 9070 1 1 d 11 ge:n\eticist# . / 5 2 52 9080 1 1 d 11 could ^learn a tre!mendous a:m\ount# . / 5 2 52 9090 1 2 d 11 ^from the great English families like . the / 5 2 52 9090 1 1 d 11 !Str\acheys# / 5 2 52 9100 1 1 d 11 and and the ^H\uxleys# / 5 2 52 9110 1 1 d 11 and the ^C\ecils# / 5 2 52 9120 1 1 d 11 and ^s\o _on# . / 5 2 52 9130 1 1 d 11 [wi? dh@] ^they were . as as :Kennedy has !s\aid# / 5 2 52 9140 1 1 d 11 they they . ^most of them in the p/ast# / 5 2 52 9150 1 2 d 11 ^found their marriages within the same . social / 5 2 52 9150 1 1 d 11 intellectual c/ircle# . / 5 2 52 9160 1 1 d 11 we we the ma^t\erial# / 5 2 52 9170 1 1 d 11 is a^v\ailable# / 5 2 52 9180 1 1 d 11 and it`s ^l\imited# - / 5 2 52 9190 1 1 d 11 for ^m\/ost of _us# . / 5 2 52 9200 1 1 d 11 [@] ^that material . is :so l/arge# . / 5 2 52 9210 1 2 d 11 [@:] . that . there`s ^nothing . one can !d\o about/ 5 2 52 9210 1 1 d 11 _it# / 5 2 53 9220 1 1 d 11 ^one may . :f=ind# / 5 2 53 9230 1 2 d 11 [dh@] . ^most people find their origins . [@:] / 5 2 53 9230 1 1 d 11 :wherever they c/\an# / 5 2 53 9240 1 1 d 11 and it ^goes b\ack# / 5 2 53 9250 1 1 d 11 and ^b\ack# / 5 2 53 9260 1 1 d 11 as ^Sir Ian has s\aid# . / 5 2 53 9270 1 1 d 11 and we we ^can`t trace it any !f\urther# - / 5 2 53 9280 1 1 d 11 but . the ^second point /is# . / 5 2 53 9290 1 1 d 11 that there ^is I :think . a !proper \interest# . / 5 2 53 9300 1 1 d 11 in the ^conti!n\uity# . / 5 2 53 9310 1 1 d 11 of ^gener!\ations# . / 5 2 53 9320 1 1 d 11 which`s ^nothing to !d\o with bi/ology# / 5 2 53 9330 1 1 d 11 which is ^part of . [@] a sort of human p/\iety# / 5 2 53 9340 1 1 d 11 which en^ables you to . 'see 'your "pl\ace# . / 5 2 53 9350 1 1 d 11 in [dhi:] . ^conti!nuity of civiliz\ation# . / 5 2 53 9360 1 1 d 11 and . ^any :civilized man must . :h\ave _that# . / 5 2 53 9370 1 1 d 11 as . ^part of his emotional :m\/ake-_up# . / 5 2 53 9380 1 1 d 11 ^if [@] . he`s going to play a proper :r\/ole# / 5 2 53 9390 1 1 d 11 in the so^ciety of which he is a p\art# / 5 2 54 9400 1 1 f 12 ^well I :hope *-* ^y\es# / 5 2 54 9410 1 1 f 11 ^Moncr\eiffe# / 5 2 54 9420 1 2 m 12 *^could I [br]* (gap) it`s a ^long interest of / 5 2 54 9420 1 1 m 12 m=ine# / 5 2 54 9430 1 1 m 11 and I`ve ^never been able to :c\orner a bi_ologist#/ 5 2 54 9440 1 1 m 11 ^/over th\is# - / 5 2 54 9450 1 1 m 11 [@] you ^know that . :what makes you a :m\/an# / 5 2 54 9460 1 2 m 11 is that ^your father gives ((a)) Y / 5 2 54 9460 1 1 m 11 :chr\omosome# *.* / 5 2 54 9470 2 1 m 21 [@m] and that "^\only your _father can / 5 2 54 9480 1 1 ? 11 *^y/es#* / 5 2 54 9470 1 1(m 11 _give _that# - / 5 2 54 9490 1 2 m 11 now it`s ^quite obvious that certain things can be / 5 2 54 9490 1 1 m 11 :sexlinked to the Y chr/omosome# . / 5 2 54 9500 1 1 m 11 be^cause for ex/\ample# / 5 2 54 9510 1 1 m 11 ^ever since the th/irteen _hundreds# / 5 2 54 9520 1 1 m 11 the ^T\albots# / 5 2 54 9530 1 1 m 11 have ^had this business of syn!d\actylism# / 5 2 54 9540 1 1 m 11 "^only in the male l\ine# . / 5 2 54 9550 1 1 m 11 we`ve ^all got Talbot :bl\ood# . / 5 2 54 9560 1 1 m 11 but ^only Talbots :h\ave it# / 5 2 55 9570 1 1 f 11 ^yes - I`m sorry but they`ve had wh/at# . / 5 2 55 9580 1 1 f 21 ^this business of / 5 2 55 9590 1 1 m 11 ((thing ^called)) synd\actylism# / 5 2 55 9600 2 1 m 23 it`s ^when the *.* what I`m ^talking - / 5 2 55 9610 1 1 ? 20 *yes* / 5 2 55 9600 1 1(m 13 ^now . the Robertsons of Str/\ome# - / 5 2 55 9620 1 1 m 11 who ^form a tre:mendous tribe in P\erthshire# / 5 2 55 9630 1 1 m 11 "^th\ey _have a# . / 5 2 55 9640 1 2 m 11 a ^tendency for their !outer fingers to turn / 5 2 55 9640 1 1 m 11 :\in# - / 5 2 55 9650 1 1 m 11 a^gain 'only in the male l\ine# . / 5 2 55 9660 2 1 m 22 it ^doesn`t go *.* [@m] / 5 2 55 9670 1 1 f 11 *^and d\aughters#* / 5 2 55 9680 1 1 f 11 and ^Sir Robertson of Str\ome# / 5 2 55 9660 1 1(m 12 is ^that a Robertson /one# +-+ / 5 2 55 9690 2 1 m 21 and and [@m] . the [@ @] / 5 2 55 9700 1 1 f 20 +yes+ / 5 2 56 9690 1 1(m 11 there "^\are _these _things# / 5 2 56 9710 1 1 m 11 that ap^p\ear to be _sexlinked# / 5 2 56 9720 1 1 m 11 on the ^Y chr\omosome# *.* / 5 2 56 9730 2 1 m 21 but (gap) ^see it / 5 2 56 9740 1 1 f 20 *yes* / 5 2 56 9730 1 1(m 11 :\even more str/ongly# / 5 2 56 9750 1 1 m 11 because they`re "^\all interrelated in Sc/ot_land# / 5 2 56 9760 1 1 m 11 it`s it`s a ^sm\all c/ountry# / 5 2 56 9770 1 1 m 11 and we`ve "^all intermarried for a :long t\ime# / 5 2 56 9780 1 1 m 11 and ^yet . there are :C/ampbell _character_istics# / 5 2 56 9790 1 2 m 11 there are . the ^main Campbell characteristic was / 5 2 56 9790 1 1 m 11 their great !c\ourage# . / 5 2 56 9800 1 1 m 11 [@m] if you ^take the :Cawdor C/ampbells# . / 5 2 56 9810 1 1 m 11 ^three Victoria Cr/osses# / 5 2 56 9820 1 1 m 11 un^limited M!\Cs# . / 5 2 56 9830 1 1 m 11 the ^L\/indsays# - / 5 2 56 9840 1 1 m 11 ^always very c\ivilized# / 5 2 56 9850 1 1 m 11 ^they write pl\ays# . / 5 2 56 9860 1 1 m 11 they . ^Lord !Cr\awford# / 5 2 56 9870 1 1 m 11 is a very ^good ex:\ample# - / 5 2 56 9880 1 1 m 11 they they`re ^very art\istic# . / 5 2 57 9890 1 1 m 11 and ^yet they`re all interm/arried# - / 5 2 57 9900 1 1 m 11 and I`ve ^always wanted to :t\ackle a bi_ologist# / 5 2 57 9910 1 1 m 11 a^b\out _this# / 5 2 57 9920 1 1 m 11 but they ^alw\ays _say# / 5 2 57 9930 1 1 m 11 ^oh no the :Y chromosome is !so m\odified# / 5 2 57 9940 1 1 m 11 in ^every gener\/ation# . / 5 2 57 9950 1 2 m 11 that you ^can`t be sure there is :any of it / 5 2 57 9950 1 1 m 11 l/eft# . / 5 2 57 9960 1 1 m 11 ^after a few gener!\ations# / 5 3 1 10 1 1 w 11 ^Mr Na!b\arro# / 5 3 1 20 1 1 w 11 you`re ^well kn\own# . / 5 3 1 30 1 1 w 11 [@:] for your ^\advocacy# / 5 3 1 40 1 1 w 11 in the ^House of :C\/ommons# . / 5 3 1 50 1 1 w 11 of ^more v\iolent m/easures# / 5 3 1 60 1 1 w 11 a^gainst the :cr\iminal# . / 5 3 1 70 1 1 w 11 than the ^law at :present t\akes# - / 5 3 1 80 1 1 w 11 I ^wonder if you`d :tell us f\irst# . / 5 3 1 90 1 2 w 11 ^what you your:self would !like to be [s] :see to / 5 3 1 90 1 1 w 11 be d/one {in this ^m/atter#}# - / 5 3 1 100 1 2 w 11 and . [w] "^why you :th\ink {that ^stronger / 5 3 1 100 1 1 w 11 'measures are ^n\eeded#}# / 5 3 1 110 1 1 n 11 I`m ^s/\orry {Mr ^W\illiams#}# / 5 3 1 120 1 2 n 11 that you ^use [dhi] {:w\ord} "!v\iolent - {[@:] . / 5 3 1 120 1 1 n 11 ^m\easures#}# - - / 5 3 1 130 1 2 n 11 [@:] ^I be!lieve in :sterner and more :r\obust / 5 3 1 130 1 1 n 11 _measures# / 5 3 1 140 1 1 n 11 in ^combating cr\ime# - / 5 3 1 150 1 2 n 11 [@] there is ^very great :public conc\ern in Great / 5 3 1 150 1 1 n 11 Britain tod/ay# / 5 3 1 160 1 1 n 11 about the ^rising !t\ide of cr/ime# - / 5 3 1 170 1 1 n 11 and [@] ^\/also# / 5 3 1 180 1 1 n 11 ^whether the :p\unishments# / 5 3 1 190 1 1 n 11 which the ^courts are empowered to . imp/ose# . / 5 3 1 200 1 1 n 11 are ^\/adequate# / 5 3 1 210 1 1 n 11 in ^view of this [@] phen\omenon# - / 5 3 1 220 1 1 n 11 of ^c\ourse# / 5 3 2 230 1 1 n 11 [dhi @ @] ^{w\orld}-!w\ide# . / 5 3 2 240 1 1 n 11 ^increase in cr/ime# - / 5 3 2 250 1 1 n 11 ^notably :j\uvenile cr/ime# / 5 3 2 260 1 1 n 11 must be ^brought into this :matter as !w\ell# - / 5 3 2 270 1 2 n 11 [@] . ^teddy 'boys and 'girls we 'call them in / 5 3 2 270 1 1 n 11 Br/itain# / 5 3 2 280 1 2 n 11 ^they have ex'actly the same [@ @] tr/end {in / 5 3 2 280 1 1 n 11 ^G/ermany#}# / 5 3 2 290 1 1 n 11 ^where they are called :halb st/ark# . / 5 3 2 300 1 1 n 11 or ^half matured y/ouths# - / 5 3 2 310 1 1 n 11 in ^Fr/ance# / 5 3 2 320 1 1 n 11 ^brisons n/oirs# - / 5 3 2 330 1 1 n 11 ^black j/ackets# / 5 3 2 340 1 1 n 11 in Aus^tr/alia# / 5 3 2 350 1 1 n 11 the ^boys are known as . "b/odgies# / 5 3 2 360 1 1 n 11 and the ^girls as "w/idgies# . / 5 3 2 370 1 1 n 11 and it`s ^not [@] confined :only to !Br/\itain# / 5 3 2 380 1 1 n 11 this ^rising . 'tide of !cr\ime# - / 5 3 2 390 1 1 n 11 ^p\/ersonally# / 5 3 2 400 1 1 n 11 I ^think our m\ethods# - / 5 3 2 410 1 1 n 11 of ^dealing with [dhi @] . :crime w/ave# / 5 3 2 420 1 1 n 11 are ^not \adequate# - - / 5 3 2 430 1 1 n 11 "^I bel/ieve# / 5 3 2 440 1 1 n 11 that [@] . ^murderers should be "h/anged# - / 5 3 3 450 1 1 n 11 pro^vided they`re s/ane of _course# - / 5 3 3 460 1 1 n 11 and [@] that the ^courts sh\ould be emp/owered# / 5 3 3 470 1 2 n 11 ^subject to :certain reser:vations and / 5 3 3 470 1 1 n 11 qualific/ations# . / 5 3 3 480 1 1 n 11 in im^p=o{^s=ing#}# . / 5 3 3 490 1 1 n 11 ^sentences 'of . "!c\orporal p/unishment# - / 5 3 3 500 1 1 n 11 for . "^y\oung males :n/otably# . / 5 3 3 510 1 2 n 11 ^who`ve been :found guilty of :crimes of :violence / 5 3 3 510 1 1 n 11 against the !p\erson# - / 5 3 3 520 1 1 n 11 ^parad\/oxically# - / 5 3 3 530 1 1 n 11 [@:] I`m in^f/ormed# - / 5 3 3 540 1 2 n 11 the ^great ma:jority of the :general !p\ublic / 5 3 3 540 1 1 n 11 support me in these v/iews# - / 5 3 3 550 1 2 n 11 but I think ^certainly in regard to ":c\orporal / 5 3 3 550 1 1 n 11 p/unishment# / 5 3 3 560 1 1 n 11 I ap^pear to be . :one of a mi"!n\/ority# . / 5 3 3 570 1 1 n 11 in ^P\arliament# - / 5 3 3 580 1 1 n 11 [@] ^one quick word about . "m\urder# - / 5 3 3 590 1 2 n 11 there ^aren`t m\any _murderers _executed {^in this / 5 3 3 590 1 1 n 11 :c\ountry#}# - / 5 3 4 600 1 1 n 11 in ^fact in nineteen s/ixty# / 5 3 4 610 1 1 n 11 there were only ^s\even# . / 5 3 4 620 1 1 n 11 ^h/anged# - / 5 3 4 630 1 1 n 11 and as ^long ago as nineteen th/irty# / 5 3 4 640 1 1 n 11 there were only ^s/ix _hanged# - / 5 3 4 650 1 1 n 11 it`s ^relatively sm\/all# / 5 3 4 660 1 2 n 11 ^when one :takes into ac:count the :fact that - / 5 3 4 660 1 1 n 11 [@:] in nineteen s/ixty# / 5 3 4 670 1 2 n 11 there were ^four hundred and seventy-"!\one murders/ 5 3 4 670 1 1 n 11 in :/all# - / 5 3 4 680 1 1 n 11 yet out of ^\all that t/otal# / 5 3 4 690 1 1 n 11 ^only 'seven . were :h\anged# / 5 3 4 700 1 1 n 11 and in ^nineteen fifty-s/even# / 5 3 4 710 1 1 n 11 ^Parliament in its w/isdom# / 5 3 4 720 1 1 n 11 ^passed through the :Homicide /Act# / 5 3 4 730 1 1 n 11 which di"^v\ided the crime of m/urder# / 5 3 4 740 1 1 n 11 under ^two h\eads# - / 5 3 4 750 1 1 n 11 [@:] into ^capital m/urders# . / 5 3 4 760 1 1 n 11 and "^n\on-_capital _murders# - / 5 3 4 770 1 1 n 11 "^n\on-capital _murders of _course# / 5 3 4 780 1 1 n 11 were "^n\ot punishable by the :death s/entence# - / 5 3 4 790 1 2 n 11 and ^only !c\apital _murders {^by [dhi:] . the / 5 3 4 790 1 1 n 11 d\eath _sentence#}# / 5 3 5 800 1 1 n 11 ^I think that`s "wr/ong# - / 5 3 5 810 1 2 n 11 and ^I think "!\all murderers . [@] should be / 5 3 5 810 1 1 n 11 h/anged# . / 5 3 5 820 1 1 n 11 ^if they`re s\ane# - / 5 3 5 830 1 1 n 11 in re^gard to c\orporal p/unishment# - / 5 3 5 840 1 1 n 11 ^not only is there :widespread sup:p\ort# / 5 3 5 850 1 2 n 11 in the ^c\ountry . {for the ^views that I`ve / 5 3 5 850 1 1 n 11 expr\essed#}# - / 5 3 5 860 1 1 n 11 that [@:] . ^subject to reserv/ations# / 5 3 5 870 1 1 n 11 and ^qualific/ations# / 5 3 5 880 1 2 n 11 ^corporal punishment !should be imposed by the / 5 3 5 880 1 1 n 11 c/ourts# - / 5 3 5 890 1 2 n 11 [@] but ^also [dhi:] - 'last Lord Chief J/ustice / 5 3 5 890 1 1 n 11 {^Lord G/oddard#}# - / 5 3 5 900 1 2 n 11 [dhi:] . ^present Lord Chief J/ustice {^Lord / 5 3 5 900 1 1 n 11 P/arker#}# - / 5 3 5 910 1 1 n 11 have ^both supported . 'that v\iew# - / 5 3 5 920 1 1 n 11 [@:] ^I do "!n\ot bel/ieve# / 5 3 5 930 1 1 n 11 in . ^indis'criminate flagell/ation# - / 5 3 5 940 1 1 n 11 [@] with^in judicial s\entences# - / 5 3 6 950 1 1 n 11 but I ^do take the v/iew# / 5 3 6 960 1 1 n 11 that [@:] . the ^thug is invariably a ":c\oward# - / 5 3 6 970 1 2 n 11 he ^generally seems to select an :elderly / 5 3 6 970 1 1 n 11 defenceless w/oman# . / 5 3 6 980 1 1 n 11 to at^{t\ack} and "!r\ob# - / 5 3 6 990 1 1 n 11 and in "^m\y exp/erience# / 5 3 6 1000 1 1 n 11 [dhi:] . ^h\ide of the th/ug# / 5 3 6 1010 1 1 n 11 is . ^t/ender# - / 5 3 6 1020 1 1 n 11 and re^c/eptive# - / 5 3 6 1030 1 1 n 11 and I would ^wh/ack him# - / 5 3 6 1040 1 1 n 11 if he ^does it a second t/ime# - / 5 3 6 1050 1 1 n 11 ^and . I would !c\/ertainly# / 5 3 6 1060 1 1 n 11 [dhi:] . ^gr\eater /issue# / 5 3 6 1070 1 1 n 11 though - "^r\elatively# - / 5 3 6 1080 1 2 n 11 a ^much smaller :number . of :criminals are / 5 3 6 1080 1 1 n 11 inv/olved# - / 5 3 6 1090 1 1 n 11 ^I would hang the :m\urderer# . / 5 3 6 1100 1 1 n 11 ^those are the views I`ve expr/essed# / 5 3 6 1110 1 1 n 11 in ^P/arliament# / 5 3 6 1120 1 1 n 11 in the ^c/ountry# / 5 3 6 1130 1 1 n 11 on ^br/oadcasting# / 5 3 6 1140 1 1 n 11 and on ^t/elevision# - / 5 3 6 1150 1 1 n 11 ^they`re the views I still h\ave# / 5 3 7 1160 1 1 l 11 [n n @] Na^b\arro# . / 5 3 7 1170 1 2 l 11 [@] - ^this seems to 'me to be . [@:] - a !typical / 5 3 7 1170 1 1 l 11 v/iew# . / 5 3 7 1180 1 3 l 12 of . ^you . [@:] . of the - ^[w] what I call the / 5 3 7 1180 1 2 l 12 senti:m\entalist [?@] . side of the argument in / 5 3 7 1180 1 1 l 12 :th/is# - / 5 3 7 1190 1 1 l 11 you ^start off for instance by ob!j\ecting# / 5 3 7 1200 1 1 l 11 to ^W\illiams`s _use# / 5 3 7 1210 1 1 l 11 of the ^word . v/iolent# - / 5 3 7 1220 1 2 l 11 for ^which you would substitute :sterner and more / 5 3 7 1220 1 1 l 11 ro!bust m/easures# - / 5 3 7 1230 1 1 l 11 in ^actual f\act# . / 5 3 7 1240 1 1 l 11 ^medical t/estimony# / 5 3 7 1250 1 1 l 11 has ^said that - [ei] judicial :fl\/ogging# - / 5 3 7 1260 1 1 l 11 [@:] by ^cat o` nine t/ails# . / 5 3 7 1270 1 1 l 11 and [@] ^b\irching# / 5 3 7 1280 1 1 l 11 which ^y\ou advo_cate# . / 5 3 7 1290 1 1 l 11 is ^little . if :any . [@] :less sev/ere# - / 5 3 7 1300 1 1 l 11 ^has the equ\/ivalent# . / 5 3 7 1310 1 1 l 11 (coughs) of . is the e^qu\/ivalent# . / 5 3 7 1320 1 1 l 11 of a ^major :surgical oper\/ation# / 5 3 7 1330 1 1 l 11 with^out anaes!th\etic# / 5 3 7 1340 1 1 l 11 in its ^physical ef:f\ects# . / 5 3 8 1350 1 1 l 11 so ^I don`t see "wh\y# / 5 3 8 1360 1 1 l 11 you should ^be so squ\eamish# / 5 3 8 1370 1 1 l 11 a^bout the use of the word !v\iolent# - / 5 3 8 1380 1 1 l 11 your ^methods are ex!tr\emely v/iolent# - / 5 3 8 1390 1 1 l 11 [@m] - but ^more im:portant than :th\/at# . / 5 3 8 1400 1 1 l 11 *since it`s ^really a matter of no:m\/enclature#* / 5 3 8 1410 1 2 n 12 *^could I 'halt you there* - ^could I halt you / 5 3 8 1410 1 1 n 12 there and answer :that point :f\irst# - / 5 3 8 1420 1 2 n 11 and ^then I`ll pass on to the :s\econd _point {you / 5 3 8 1420 1 1 n 11 ^want to :p\ut to _me#}# - / 5 3 8 1430 1 1 n 11 [@] ^n\o# . / 5 3 8 1440 1 1 n 11 I ^d\on`t _think {^v\iolent#}# - / 5 3 8 1450 1 1 n 11 [@] . I have ^n\ever /advocated# . / 5 3 8 1460 1 1 n 11 the re^turn of the cat o` "n\ine _tails# . / 5 3 8 1470 1 2 n 11 ^neither do any of my :colleagues in the :H\ouse / 5 3 8 1470 1 1 n 11 _advocate _this# - / 5 3 8 1480 1 1 n 11 [@:] the ^cat o` n/ine _tails# / 5 3 8 1490 1 1 n 11 has been re^{t/ained} by "l/aw# . / 5 3 9 1500 1 1 n 11 and is ^st/ill {the ^l/aw#}# - / 5 3 9 1510 1 1 n 11 as . [@:] . a ^s/entence# - / 5 3 9 1520 1 1 n 11 ^in pr/ison# - / 5 3 9 1530 1 2 n 11 [@] ^for . !violent . at:tacks . by :prisoners . on/ 5 3 9 1530 1 1 n 11 ":w\arders# - / 5 3 9 1540 1 1 n 11 the ^Government has "\always _recognized# / 5 3 9 1550 1 1 n 11 the ^L/abour _Government# - / 5 3 9 1560 1 1 n 11 of the ^p/ast# / 5 3 9 1570 1 1 n 11 as ^w/ell as the T\ory _Government# . / 5 3 9 1580 1 1 n 11 that it ^is . [ei] de"t\errent# - / 5 3 9 1590 1 1 n 11 in "^v\ery _violent {^c\ases#}# - / 5 3 9 1600 1 1 n 11 ^\I advoc/ate# - / 5 3 9 1610 1 1 n 11 [@:] . a ju^d/icial - {^b/eating#}# - / 5 3 9 1620 1 1 n 11 ^that \is# . / 5 3 9 1630 1 1 n 11 the ^use of the c\ane# - / 5 3 9 1640 1 2 n 11 [@] ^for . !crimes of violence against the / 5 3 9 1640 1 1 n 11 p/erson# - / 5 3 9 1650 1 1 n 11 for "^m/ales# . / 5 3 9 1660 1 1 n 11 ^up to the age of s/eventeen _years# - / 5 3 9 1670 1 1 n 11 and the ^b/irch# . / 5 3 9 1680 1 1 n 11 "^\over _seventeen _years# / 5 3 9 1690 1 1 n 11 and I do "^n\ot _think# / 5 3 9 1700 1 1 n 11 that ^either a c/aning# - / 5 3 9 1710 1 1 n 11 "^{/or a} b/irching# . / 5 3 9 1720 1 1 n 11 is a ^surgical oper\ation# / 5 3 10 1730 1 2 l 11 well ^that brings us to [dhi:] . !s\econd half of / 5 3 10 1730 1 1 l 11 what I wanted to s/ay# . / 5 3 10 1740 1 2 l 11 [@ @ @] . be^cause [@] . that is "!\also / 5 3 10 1740 1 1 l 11 _typical# . / 5 3 10 1750 1 1 l 11 of the ^v\iews {of the ^sentim\entalists#}# / 5 3 10 1760 1 1 l 11 on ^th/is# - / 5 3 10 1770 1 2 l 11 ^since it is "!not based on :any kind of factual / 5 3 10 1770 1 1 l 11 evidence at /all# . / 5 3 10 1780 1 1 l 11 ^and ind/eed# / 5 3 10 1790 1 1 l 11 ^fl\ies# / 5 3 10 1800 1 1 l 11 in the ^f\ace# / 5 3 10 1810 1 2 l 11 of the ^very con!siderable body of factual evidence/ 5 3 10 1810 1 1 l 11 that ex:\ists# - / 5 3 10 1820 1 1 l 11 you "^s\aid# / 5 3 10 1830 1 1 l 11 there is ^widespread . sup:p\ort in the c/ountry# / 5 3 10 1840 1 1 l 11 and in^deed I a:gr\ee with _you# / 5 3 10 1850 1 1 l 11 I`m ^quite sure there :\/is# - / 5 3 10 1860 1 1 l 11 for the ^views I`ve ex:pr\essed# / 5 3 10 1870 1 1 l 11 and in ^actual :f\/act# / 5 3 10 1880 1 1 l 11 you ^haven`t ex:pr\essed _any _views# - / 5 3 10 1890 1 1 l 11 ^what you`ve "s\/aid# . / 5 3 10 1900 1 1 l 11 ^is that - the !thug is invariably a "c/oward# . / 5 3 11 1910 1 1 l 11 which ^isn`t tr/ue# . / 5 3 11 1920 1 1 l 11 and the ^evidence is :totally ag/ainst _you# - / 5 3 11 1930 1 1 l 11 and you "^\also _said# / 5 3 11 1940 1 1 l 11 that . he ^generally att\acks# . / 5 3 11 1950 1 1 l 11 ^elderly and defenceless !w\omen# - / 5 3 11 1960 1 1 l 11 this ^simply is not "!tr\ue# . / 5 3 11 1970 1 2 l 11 of "^course there`ve been some :sh\ameful {and / 5 3 11 1970 1 1 l 11 ^dr\eadful _cases#}# . / 5 3 11 1980 1 1 l 11 of ^old and defenceless women being att/acked# - / 5 3 11 1990 1 2 l 11 the over^whelming ma:jority of 'cases however of / 5 3 11 1990 1 1 l 11 v/iolence# . / 5 3 11 2000 1 1 l 11 [@:] ^violent cr/imes# - / 5 3 11 2010 1 1 l 11 have "^n\ot been of this _nature# - / 5 3 11 2020 1 1 l 11 "^many of them have b/een# . / 5 3 11 2030 1 1 l 11 of [@] . ^thugs at:tacking one an!\other# - / 5 3 11 2040 1 1 l 11 [@:] . which of course we ^\also de_plore# - / 5 3 11 2050 1 1 l 11 but it`s ^not the sort of th/ing# / 5 3 11 2060 1 2 l 12 that ^you`ve instances [dh@?dh@?] . ^generally / 5 3 11 2060 1 1 l 12 attack :elderly and defenceless !w\omen# - / 5 3 11 2070 1 1 l 11 you ^s=ee# / 5 3 12 2080 1 1 l 11 it ^seems to m\e# . / 5 3 12 2090 1 1 l 11 [@m] . Na^b/arro# / 5 3 12 2100 1 2 l 11 that - [@] ^you people just won`t do your / 5 3 12 2100 1 1 l 11 "!h\omework _properly# - / 5 3 12 2110 1 1 l 11 the Ad^visory Committee of the :H\ome _Office# . / 5 3 12 2120 1 1 l 11 ^\on corporal p/unishment# . / 5 3 12 2130 1 1 l 11 ex"^amined this ex"!h\austively# - / 5 3 12 2140 1 1 l 11 "^several m/embers of _it# . / 5 3 12 2150 1 1 l 11 who`re by "^n/\o _means# / 5 3 12 2160 1 2 l 11 [@] . ^social re:formers of the kind you 'might / 5 3 12 2160 1 1 l 11 'possibly look d\own /on# - / 5 3 12 2170 1 2 l 11 ^were . in . at the be"!g\inning of their / 5 3 12 2170 1 1 l 11 examin_ation of the :/evidence# . / 5 3 12 2180 1 1 l 11 in "^f\avour of corporal p/unishment# - / 5 3 12 2190 1 1 l 11 ^by the time they`d ex":\amined the /evidence# / 5 3 12 2200 1 1 l 11 which you "^don`t think to have d/one# - / 5 3 12 2210 1 2 l 12 ^they [w@] ^they`d come to the conclusion / 5 3 12 2210 1 1 l 12 un"!\/animously# - / 5 3 12 2220 1 1 l 11 that it should "^not be reintro:d\uced# - - / 5 3 13 2230 1 1 n 11 ^w/\ell# / 5 3 13 2240 1 2 n 11 [? dhi: @:] - Ad^visory Council to which you / 5 3 13 2240 1 1 n 11 ref/erred# . / 5 3 13 2250 1 1 n 11 ex^pressed an o"p\inion# - / 5 3 13 2260 1 1 n 11 ^I`m expressing an op\/inion# / 5 3 13 2270 1 1 n 20 that *[i:]* / 5 3 13 2280 1 1 l 11 *^they based* it on :f\acts# - / 5 3 13 2290 1 1 l 12 and ^I`d like "^st\ill want to h/ear# / 5 3 13 2300 1 1 l 11 what ^your 'facts \are# - / 5 3 13 2310 1 1 l 11 what your "^\evidence /is# . / 5 3 13 2320 1 1 l 11 for the ^views you`ve expr\essed# . / 5 3 13 2330 1 1 l 11 *which ^so far we haven`t :h\eard#* / 5 3 13 2340 1 2 n 12 *there ^can 'be -* there ^can 'be . "n\o / 5 3 13 2340 1 1 n 12 _evidence# - / 5 3 13 2350 1 1 n 11 of a ^tangible ch/aracter# . / 5 3 13 2360 1 1 n 11 I ^readily adm\it _this# - / 5 3 13 2370 1 2 n 11 there "^cannot be :any evidence of a :tangible / 5 3 13 2370 1 1 n 11 ch/aracter# - / 5 3 13 2380 1 1 n 11 that ^if you inflict . corporal p\unishment# . / 5 3 13 2390 1 1 n 11 with^in the qualifications that I`ve de:f=ined# - / 5 3 14 2400 1 1 n 11 it is ^going to . reform . the th\ug# - / 5 3 14 2410 1 1 n 11 there "^c\annot be _any _evidence {for ^th\at#}# . / 5 3 14 2420 1 2 n 11 and the Ad^visory !C\ouncil did _not _find . {^any / 5 3 14 2420 1 1 n 11 . \evidence {of ^th\at#}#}# - / 5 3 14 2430 1 2 n 11 ^what they 'did was to col:lect op/inions and / 5 3 14 2430 1 1 n 11 ":v\oices# - / 5 3 14 2440 1 1 n 11 "^m\y op/inion# / 5 3 14 2450 1 2 n 11 ^and 'that of a l\arge _number of my _fellow / 5 3 14 2450 1 1 n 11 _countrymen :/is# - / 5 3 14 2460 1 1 n 11 ^that [@:] - the thug "!\is a _coward# - / 5 3 14 2470 1 1 n 11 the ^t\ype of _case {^you`ve qu\oted#}# / 5 3 14 2480 1 1 n 11 [@:] ^L\evin# - / 5 3 14 2490 1 1 n 12 ^of [@:] - "^one thug attacking an:other th/ug# - / 5 3 14 2500 1 1 n 11 ^that is not v\/iolence# . / 5 3 14 2510 1 1 n 11 in [dhi] ^connot\ation# - / 5 3 14 2520 1 1 n 11 ^we`re disc/ussing this !\evening# - / 5 3 14 2530 2 1 n 22 *^one one thug* . / 5 3 14 2540 1 2 l 11 you *^wouldn`t ((punish it with)) corporal / 5 3 14 2540 1 1 l 11 :p\unishment#* / 5 3 15 2550 1 1 l 20 ((then)) / 5 3 15 2530 1 1(n 12 ^one th/ug# - / 5 3 15 2560 1 1 n 11 at^tacking an'other th/ug# . / 5 3 15 2570 1 1 n 11 is a ^question of !gang "w\arfare# / 5 3 15 2580 1 1 l 11 ^not necess\/arily# / 5 3 15 2590 1 1 w 11 (coughs) ^Mr Na:b\arro# / 5 3 15 2600 1 2 w 11 we "^are discussing after all :certain reforms in / 5 3 15 2600 1 1 w 11 the :l\aw# - / 5 3 15 2610 1 1 w 11 now there is a ^class of :cr\imes# - / 5 3 15 2620 1 1 w 11 in . ^recognized by the British l/aw# - / 5 3 15 2630 1 1 w 11 which ^/are# - / 5 3 15 2640 1 1 w 11 [@:] . which ^{/are} t/ermed# / 5 3 15 2650 1 1 w 11 [dh] - ^acts of violence against the !p\erson# - / 5 3 15 2660 1 1 w 11 and I "^t\ake it# / 5 3 15 2670 1 1 w 11 that ^your - [@:] - act/ivities# . / 5 3 15 2680 1 2 w 11 ^must be directed to :some legally defined class of/ 5 3 15 2680 1 1 w 11 :cr\ime# / 5 3 15 2690 1 1 n 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 15 2700 1 1(w 11 ^n\ow# . / 5 3 15 2710 1 1 w 11 of ^c\ourse# . / 5 3 15 2720 1 1 w 11 in"^cluded in this class of cr/imes# . / 5 3 16 2730 1 1 w 11 "^are as m\uch# . / 5 3 16 2740 1 2 w 11 ^instances of ma:licious wounding of :one thug or / 5 3 16 2740 1 1 w 11 'young man by an"!other thug or :young m/an# - / 5 3 16 2750 1 2 w 11 ^as there are . of . [@:] . any defenceless - old / 5 3 16 2750 1 1 w 11 !l\adies# - / 5 3 16 2760 1 1 w 11 as a ^matter of :f\/act# . / 5 3 16 2770 1 1 w 11 you ^have a certain :d\ifficulty in the f/act# / 5 3 16 2780 1 1 w 11 that there`s ^\also included in this cl/ass# . / 5 3 16 2790 1 1 w 11 a ^lot of !\other _things# . / 5 3 16 2800 1 1 w 11 such as pro^curing ab/ortion# - / 5 3 16 2810 1 1 w 11 and . en^dangering a ship at !s\ea# . / 5 3 16 2820 1 2 w 11 but we ^won`t worry about - the :small point about / 5 3 16 2820 1 1 w 11 !th\is# - / 5 3 16 2830 1 2 w 11 I ^think . what I ":would like to take you /up on / 5 3 16 2830 1 1 w 11 is !th\is# - / 5 3 16 2840 1 1 w 11 I mean we have "^tw\o factual questions h/ere# / 5 3 16 2850 1 1 w 11 ^one is about what sort of :crimes are comm/itted# / 5 3 16 2860 1 1 w 11 and I en^t\irely agree with L/evin# / 5 3 17 2870 1 1 w 11 I ^think ((that)) it`s quite cl\ear# / 5 3 17 2880 1 1 w 11 that they "^\aren`t _all# - / 5 3 17 2890 1 1 w 11 di^rected or :even . [in . @] . at "!\all# / 5 3 17 2900 1 2 w 11 a ma"^j\ority directed towards the defenceless old / 5 3 17 2900 1 1 w 11 ladies you m/ention# - / 5 3 17 2910 1 2 w 11 ((but it)) ^seems to me the more im!m\ediate _issue/ 5 3 17 2910 1 1 w 11 of _fact# - / 5 3 17 2920 1 1 w 11 is "^th\is# - - / 5 3 17 2930 1 1 w 11 "^you s/ay# / 5 3 17 2940 1 2 w 11 that ^this is a question to which there :can in the/ 5 3 17 2940 1 1 w 11 nature of things 'be :no !\evidence# - / 5 3 17 2950 1 2 w 11 ^and that the . Advisory Council at the Home / 5 3 17 2950 1 1 w 11 /Office# / 5 3 17 2960 1 1 w 11 "^f\ound _no _such _evidence# / 5 3 17 2970 1 2 n 11 ^well I :said they col!lected voices . and / 5 3 17 2970 1 1 n 11 o:p\inions# / 5 3 17 2980 1 2 w 11 but ^this is 'not en'tirely "!!tr\ue {Mr / 5 3 17 2980 1 1 w 11 Na^b\arro#}# . / 5 3 17 2990 1 1 w 11 because *^what they :/\also col_lected#* / 5 3 18 3000 1 1 n 20 *((sylls))* / 5 3 18 3010 1 1(w 11 were a "^l/\arge _number of stat_istics# - / 5 3 18 3020 1 1 w 11 a^bout - [@: - dhi:] . in :fact . !\incidence# - / 5 3 18 3030 1 1 w 11 ^/\of - {^cr\imes . {of ^v\iolence#}#}# - / 5 3 18 3040 1 1 w 11 of the ^kind you are /interested ((in))# - / 5 3 18 3050 1 1 w 11 "^in relation to the existence or :n\on-existence# / 5 3 18 3060 1 1 w 11 in ^v\arious pl/aces# / 5 3 18 3070 1 1 w 11 at ^v\arious t/imes# . / 5 3 18 3080 1 2 w 11 of the . al^leged deterrent of corporal / 5 3 18 3080 1 1 w 11 !p\unishment# - / 5 3 18 3090 1 1 w 11 ^now !what they f\/ound# / 5 3 18 3100 1 2 w 11 and ^this isn`t a question of a lot of / 5 3 18 3100 1 1 w 11 psychiatrists getting up and voicing their v/iews# / 5 3 18 3110 1 1 w 11 ^this is a question of "blunt ":f\act# - / 5 3 18 3120 1 1 w 11 ^what !they found :w/as# / 5 3 18 3130 1 2 w 11 that it ^didn`t 'make a 'damn 'bit of / 5 3 18 3130 1 1 w 11 !d\ifference# - / 5 3 18 3140 1 1 w 11 in ^f\act# - / 5 3 18 3150 1 1 w 11 [@] . in ^certain c/ases# / 5 3 18 3160 1 2 w 11 in the ^matter of . :people - com:mitting . :crimes/ 5 3 18 3160 1 1 w 11 a:g/ain# - / 5 3 19 3170 1 1 w 11 as you ^w\ell know in this rep/ort# / 5 3 19 3180 1 1 w 11 at least we ^h\ope you know in this rep/ort# - / 5 3 19 3190 1 1 w 11 ^they disc=overed# - / 5 3 19 3200 1 2 w 11 that in the ma^jority of cases exactly the / 5 3 19 3200 1 1 w 11 re!v\erse _happened# / 5 3 19 3210 1 2 w 11 ^that is there`s a :rather "!gr\eater tendency for / 5 3 19 3210 1 1 w 11 people to commit crimes a:g/ain# - / 5 3 19 3220 1 1 w 11 ^\after they`d been fl/ogged# / 5 3 19 3230 1 1 w 11 than ^when they h\adn`t# / 5 3 19 3240 1 1 n 11 ^well now !what do you mean be fl\ogged# / 5 3 19 3250 1 1 w 11 [@] ^b\/eaten# . / 5 3 19 3260 1 1 w 11 but "^with the b=irch# - / 5 3 19 3270 1 2 w 12 which ^was . [@:] - ^or - by [dhi:] - cat o` nine / 5 3 19 3270 1 1 w 12 tails :\either# . / 5 3 19 3280 1 1 w 11 ^either *((of)) the r\ight#* / 5 3 19 3290 1 1 n 11 *[je] now* - you`re ^going . too f/ar# / 5 3 19 3300 1 1 n 11 and ^too f\ast for _me# - / 5 3 19 3310 1 1 n 11 ^let me d\eal# . / 5 3 19 3320 1 1 n 11 ^first of all with your point about the ":sc\ope# -/ 5 3 20 3330 1 1 n 11 ^of [dhi:] - !c\ategory# . / 5 3 20 3340 1 1 n 11 ^crimes . of violence against the :p\erson# - / 5 3 20 3350 1 1 n 11 ^yes it is 'perfectly !tr\ue# / 5 3 20 3360 1 1 n 11 that it in^cludes those [@: . @] :m\arginal c/ases#/ 5 3 20 3370 1 1 n 11 that ^you`ve re!f\erred to# - / 5 3 20 3380 1 1 n 11 "^b\ut# - - / 5 3 20 3390 1 1 n 13 *^these ^these . ^w/ait# . / 5 3 20 3400 1 1 n 11 ^let me just f/inish#* / 5 3 20 3410 1 1 l 11 *ex^c\use _me# / 5 3 20 3420 1 1 l 11 "^y\our _point# . / 5 3 20 3430 1 1 l 11 ^your "!y\our _case#* / 5 3 20 3440 1 2 l 11 is an ex^ample of the cases of the "!m\arginal / 5 3 20 3440 1 1 l 11 _ones# / 5 3 20 3450 1 1 l 11 *^((that is the)) point :\I`m trying to m/ake#* / 5 3 20 3460 1 2(n 14 *^let me . ^let me . ^let me .* ^let me just / 5 3 20 3460 1 1(n 14 f\inish# - / 5 3 20 3470 1 1 n 11 [@] . ^this c\ategory# / 5 3 20 3480 1 1 n 11 ^crimes of violence against the p\erson# / 5 3 20 3490 1 1 n 11 has "^/\always {in^cl\uded#}# . / 5 3 20 3500 1 1 n 11 the ^{wh\ole} !br\eadth {^of these cr\imes#}# . / 5 3 21 3510 1 1 n 11 they ^haven`t changed the :b\asis# - / 5 3 21 3520 1 1 n 11 or the ^r\ules# / 5 3 21 3530 1 1 n 20 *((for this sylls))* / 5 3 21 3540 1 1 l 11 *^no a"!g/\ain you _see#* / 5 3 21 3550 1 1 l 11 ^this is 'simply 'un!!tr\ue# / 5 3 21 3560 1 1 l 11 ^you will "not 'study the "!\evidence# / 5 3 21 3570 1 1 l 11 *- - ^not since !eighteen sixty-\/one#* . / 5 3 21 3580 1 1 n 11 *[@] . ^Mr . !L\evin# . / 5 3 21 3590 1 1 n 11 Mr ^L\evin# . / 5 3 21 3600 1 1 n 21 ^that is !quite* / 5 3 21 3610 1 1(l 11 ex^actly a hundred years a:g\/o# - / 5 3 21 3620 1 1 l 11 have "^any cr/imes# . / 5 3 21 3630 1 1 l 11 ^in pr/actice# . / 5 3 21 3640 1 2 l 11 been ^punishable by [f] by . by ju:dicial / 5 3 21 3640 1 1 l 11 :b\/eating# / 5 3 21 3650 1 1 l 11 ^in this c/ountry# - / 5 3 21 3660 1 1 l 11 ex^cept the "!\one off/ence# . / 5 3 21 3670 1 1 l 11 *of ^r/obbery with v\iolence#* / 5 3 21 3680 1 1 n 11 *^I will d/eal#* - / 5 3 21 3690 1 1 n 11 ^I will d/eal# / 5 3 21 3700 1 1 n 11 with ^that "!n\ow# - - / 5 3 21 3710 1 1 n 11 in ^nineteen forty-/eight# - / 5 3 21 3720 1 1 n 11 ju^dicial beating - was a"b\olished# / 5 3 22 3730 1 1 l 11 ^y\es# - - / 5 3 22 3740 1 1 n 11 we`re a^greed on th\at# . / 5 3 22 3750 1 1 l 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 22 3760 1 1 n 11 I`ll ^take nineteen forty-eight as :my b\ase# - / 5 3 22 3770 1 1 n 11 and ^these figures come :\out of# - / 5 3 22 3780 1 1 n 11 the re^port of the Advisory Comm/ittee# / 5 3 22 3790 1 2 n 11 and were sub^mitted to me ":b\y the Home / 5 3 22 3790 1 1 n 11 S/ecretary# / 5 3 22 3800 1 1 n 11 ^only forty-eight hours a:g\o# - / 5 3 22 3810 1 1 n 11 so they ^must be the corr\ect _figures# - - / 5 3 22 3820 1 1 n 11 be^tween nineteen forty-/eight# - / 5 3 22 3830 1 2 n 11 and the ^last collected statistics which are for / 5 3 22 3830 1 1 n 11 :nineteen fifty-n\ine# - - / 5 3 22 3840 1 2 n 11 the ^increase in :crimes of :violence a:gainst the / 5 3 22 3840 1 1 n 11 p/erson# . / 5 3 22 3850 1 1 n 11 was a^bout !f/ive t\imes# - - / 5 3 22 3860 1 1 n 11 in the ^case /of# - / 5 3 22 3870 1 1 n 11 ^m\ales# . / 5 3 22 3880 1 1 n 11 ^\under _seventeen# - - / 5 3 22 3890 1 1 n 11 the ^/incr\ease# - - / 5 3 23 3900 1 1 n 11 between ^nineteen forty-\eight# . / 5 3 23 3910 1 2 n 11 and ^nineteen fifty-n\ine . {for ^crimes of / 5 3 23 3910 1 1 n 11 :violence a'gainst the :p\erson#}# - / 5 3 23 3920 1 1 n 11 for ^m\ales# / 5 3 23 3930 1 1 n 11 ^seventeen and 'under twenty-/one# - / 5 3 23 3940 1 1 n 11 was ^nearly :six t/imes# - - / 5 3 23 3950 1 1 n 11 the ^increase between :twenty-/one# - / 5 3 23 3960 1 1 n 11 ^and . "!thirty years of age for m/en# . / 5 3 23 3970 1 1 n 11 was a"^bout two and a :h\alf _times# - / 5 3 23 3980 1 1 n 11 I`m "^perfectly well aware of the f/act# / 5 3 23 3990 1 1 n 11 that be^fore nineteen - :forty-/eight# *.* / 5 3 23 4000 1 1 ? 20 *(coughs)* / 5 3 23 4010 1 1(n 11 - "^only r\obbery with v/iolence# / 5 3 23 4020 1 1 n 11 could be ^p\unished# - / 5 3 23 4030 1 1 n 11 ^by b\eating# - - / 5 3 23 4040 1 1 n 11 "^m\y view /is# - / 5 3 23 4050 1 1 n 11 and ^that of \all my c/olleagues# - / 5 3 23 4060 1 1 n 11 and "^w\idespread _public o_pinion# . / 5 3 23 4070 1 1 n 11 ^my 'view \is# - / 5 3 23 4080 1 1 n 11 that in ^v/iew \of# . / 5 3 23 4090 1 1 n 11 [dhi] "^gr/eat \increase# . / 5 3 23 4100 1 1 n 11 in ^crimes of :v\iolence# . / 5 3 23 4110 1 1 n 11 a^gainst the p/erson# - / 5 3 24 4120 1 2 n 11 ^beating . "!\ought to _be - {^for a 'second . / 5 3 24 4120 1 1 n 11 of'fence . :imp\osed#}# - / 5 3 24 4130 1 1 n 21 *^and I th/ink* / 5 3 24 4140 1 1 l 11 but ^not *'just robbery* with :v\iolence# / 5 3 24 4150 1 1 n 11 "^n/\ot just _robbery *with _violence# / 5 3 24 4160 1 1 n 21 for ^/all* / 5 3 24 4170 1 2 w 11 *in ^other words :you want to go back* to the . / 5 3 24 4170 1 1 w 11 :eighteen sixty-:\one po_sition# / 5 3 24 4180 1 1 n 11 I ^want to go back to a p\osition# / 5 3 24 4190 1 1 n 11 whereby ^[ei] !c/ourt# . / 5 3 24 4200 1 1 n 11 with^in its dis"!cr\etion# - / 5 3 24 4210 1 2 n 11 which is ^not o"bl\igatory {Mr ^W\illiams {as / 5 3 24 4210 1 1 n 11 you((`ve)) sug^g\ested#}#}# - / 5 3 24 4220 1 1 n 11 ^[ei] c\/ourt# / 5 3 24 4230 1 1 n 11 with^in its dis!cr\/etion# - / 5 3 24 4240 1 1 n 11 ^may imp/ose# . / 5 3 24 4250 1 1 n 11 ^[ei] jud/icial {^b/eating#}# / 5 3 24 4260 1 1 n 11 for a ^s/\econd of_fence# / 5 3 24 4270 1 1 n 11 or ^/over# - / 5 3 24 4280 1 1 n 11 and ^if I might say so at :th\is _stage# . / 5 3 24 4290 1 1 n 11 ^that is only ":\one# - / 5 3 24 4300 1 1 n 11 ^\of# . / 5 3 24 4310 1 1 n 11 the ^s\entences# . / 5 3 25 4320 1 1 n 11 ^it may imp\ose . *{^on a young male p\erson#}#* - / 5 3 25 4330 1 1 w 11 *^y/es of c\ourse# / 5 3 25 4340 1 1 w 11 we a^gree ((th\ere))# - / 5 3 25 4350 1 1 l 11 ^y\es#* / 5 3 25 4360 1 2(n 11 ^/\I`m _not {^qu\arrelling with the {^Home / 5 3 25 4360 1 1(n 11 S\ecretary`s#}#}# - / 5 3 25 4370 1 1 n 11 [@: - @] "^graduated :sc\ale - {of ^tr\eatment#}# -/ 5 3 25 4380 1 2 n 11 I be"^l/\ieve in . {pro^b\ation for a _first / 5 3 25 4380 1 1 n 11 of_fence#}# . / 5 3 25 4390 1 2 n 11 I be^l/\ieve that {^b\oys _under _twenty-_one# / 5 3 25 4390 1 1 n 11 should ^not be sent to pr\ison#}# - / 5 3 25 4400 1 2 n 11 I be^l/\ieve {in the re^formative \influences {of / 5 3 25 4400 1 1 n 11 an ap^proved sch\ool#}#}# - / 5 3 25 4410 1 1 n 11 I be^l/\ieve {in ^Borstal tr\eatment#}# - / 5 3 25 4420 1 2 n 11 I be^l/\ieve {in de^tention c\entres# - or ^gl\ass / 5 3 25 4420 1 1 n 11 _houses {as they were ^c\alled in the _army#}#}# - / 5 3 25 4430 1 1 n 11 but ^what I say \is# - / 5 3 26 4440 1 1 n 11 that with the "^v/iolent "y\oung _thug# - / 5 3 26 4450 1 1 n 11 who ^does this a s\econd _time# - / 5 3 26 4460 1 1 n 11 ^h\/e# . / 5 3 26 4470 1 1 n 11 within dis^cr/etion of the {^c/ourts#}# - - / 5 3 26 4480 1 1 n 11 "^ought to b/e# - / 5 3 26 4490 1 1 n 11 ^b/eaten# - / 5 3 26 4500 2 1 n 21 *be^cause it`s* / 5 3 26 4510 2 1 w 22 *^yes . but :Mr* / 5 3 26 4500 1 1(n 11 such a 'powerful de'terrent to +:\others#+ / 5 3 26 4510 1 1(w 12 +but+ . ^Mr Nab\arro# / 5 3 26 4520 1 2 w 11 the ^only way of dec/\iding {^whether it`s a / 5 3 26 4520 1 1 w 11 powerful det\errent#}# - / 5 3 26 4530 1 1 w 11 is by ^looking at 'what has h\/appened# . / 5 3 26 4540 1 1 w 11 ^in the !cases to which it :has in the p/ast# / 5 3 26 4550 1 1 w 11 been ap"^pl\ied# . / 5 3 26 4560 1 1 w 11 we "^take your p\oint# - / 5 3 26 4570 1 2 w 11 that you ^wish to extend it to a :range of / 5 3 26 4570 1 1 w 11 of:f\/ences# . / 5 3 26 4580 1 2 w 11 to which it ^hasn`t been ap:plied since eighteen / 5 3 26 4580 1 1 w 11 sixty-:\one# - / 5 3 26 4590 1 1 w 11 "^our point is !th\is# - / 5 3 27 4600 1 2 w 11 that ^when you look at the of:fences to which it / 5 3 27 4600 1 1 w 11 "!w\as appl/ied# - / 5 3 27 4610 1 1 w 11 ^prior to [no:?] nineteen forty-\eight# . / 5 3 27 4620 1 1 w 11 and ^not s/ince# / 5 3 27 4630 1 1 n 11 ^robbery with v\iolence# / 5 3 27 4640 1 1 w 11 "^robbery with :v\iolence . _namely# - / 5 3 27 4650 1 1 w 11 ^if you l\ook# . / 5 3 27 4660 1 1 w 11 at the ^totals . of :floggable of:f\/ences# . / 5 3 27 4670 1 2 w 11 that is of^fences which between :eighteen sixty-one/ 5 3 27 4670 1 1 w 11 and nineteen forty-\eight# / 5 3 27 4680 1 1 w 11 "^w/ere p\unishable# . / 5 3 27 4690 1 1 w 11 "^by judicial b\eating# - / 5 3 27 4700 1 1 w 11 you dis^c/over# . / 5 3 27 4710 1 1 w 11 a ^very remarkable f\act# - / 5 3 27 4720 1 1 w 11 ^n\amely# / 5 3 27 4730 1 1 w 11 that ^when it was a:b\olished# . / 5 3 27 4740 1 1 w 11 in . ^nineteen forty-:\eight# - / 5 3 27 4750 1 1 w 11 the ^number of these cr\imes# / 5 3 27 4760 1 1 w 11 con^tinuously de:cr\eased# - / 5 3 27 4770 1 2 w 11 and that ^even in the year :nineteen / 5 3 27 4770 1 1 w 11 fifty-!s\even# - / 5 3 28 4780 1 1 w 11 the ^total 'of them was "!l\ower# - / 5 3 28 4790 1 1 w 11 than it ^was in nineteen forty-!\eight# / 5 3 28 4800 1 1 n 11 that`s ^robbery with v\iolence# / 5 3 28 4810 1 1 w 11 [@:] this is "^robbery with v/iolence# . / 5 3 28 4820 1 2 w 12 which ^is of course [dhi:] . and ^this is the point/ 5 3 28 4820 1 1 w 12 I`m trying to :\emphasize# - / 5 3 28 4830 1 1 w 11 the "^/\only of_fence# . / 5 3 28 4840 1 2 w 11 in re^spect of 'which the de'terrent ef'fect **.** / 5 3 28 4840 1 1 w 11 of this 'punishment in !this c/ountry# / 5 3 28 4850 1 1 w 11 ^c/an be *!!t\ested#* / 5 3 28 4860 1 1 n 12 **may** *^may* . ^n/\ow _may I# . / 5 3 28 4870 1 1 n 11 ^may I !h\alt _you# - / 5 3 28 4880 1 1 n 11 but ^/\also _in that _period# . / 5 3 28 4890 1 1 n 11 between ^nineteen forty-/eight# - / 5 3 28 4900 1 1 n 11 ^\and# . / 5 3 28 4910 1 1 n 11 ^nineteen fifty-!n\ine# - / 5 3 28 4920 1 1 n 11 ^cr/imes# . / 5 3 28 4930 1 1 n 11 of ^v\/iolence# . / 5 3 28 4940 1 1 n 11 e"^n/\ormously# / 5 3 28 4950 1 1 n 11 in^cr\/eased# . / 5 3 28 4960 1 1 n 11 ^as I`ve !d\emonstrated# / 5 3 29 4970 1 1 n 20 *- ((but I))* / 5 3 29 4980 1 1 w 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 29 4990 1 1 w 21 Mr *Na+^barro*+ / 5 3 29 5000 1 1 l 11 +((you ^can`t))+ put that d\own# . / 5 3 29 5010 1 1 l 11 to the ^abol!\ition# / 5 3 29 5020 1 1 l 11 of . ^corporal p/unishment# *.* / 5 3 29 5030 1 1 ? 20 *(coughs)* / 5 3 29 5040 1 1(l 11 which was ^not ap!pl\/icable# / 5 3 29 5050 1 1 l 11 to ^those !cr/\imes# / 5 3 29 5060 1 1 n 11 ^Mr . :L/\evin# . / 5 3 29 5070 1 1 n 11 ^on the !c/\ontrary# - / 5 3 29 5080 1 1 n 11 that is ^not [@:] . that is not !l/\ogical# - / 5 3 29 5090 1 1 n 11 ^y/our c\ase {of a de^t\errent#}# - / 5 3 29 5100 1 2 n 11 it was ^robbery with :violence be":f\ore nineteen / 5 3 29 5100 1 1 n 11 forty-/eight# - / 5 3 29 5110 1 2 n 11 I ^wish to apply to "!\all _crimes {of ^violence / 5 3 29 5110 1 1 n 11 against the p\erson#}# - / 5 3 29 5120 1 1 n 11 "^I be:l\/ieve# . / 5 3 29 5130 1 1 n 11 that the ^\incidence# / 5 3 29 5140 1 1 n 11 this - "^huge \increase# - / 5 3 29 5150 1 1 n 11 of ^cr\imes . {of ^v\iolence#}# . / 5 3 30 5160 1 1 n 11 a^g\ainst {the ^p\erson#}# - / 5 3 30 5170 1 1 n 11 would sub^st\/antially# / 5 3 30 5180 1 1 n 11 have been dim"^\inished# - / 5 3 30 5190 1 1 n 11 be^cause of the ef!fect . 'of the de:t\errent# - / 5 3 30 5200 1 1 n 11 that ^would have been :\offered# - / 5 3 30 5210 1 1 n 11 ^had c\ourts# / 5 3 30 5220 1 1 n 11 been ^able t\o# - - / 5 3 30 5230 1 1 n 11 ^imp\ose# - / 5 3 30 5240 1 1 n 11 a *^sentence . of ju:d\icial# . / 5 3 30 5250 1 1 n 11 ^p\unishment#* / 5 3 30 5260 1 1 l 11 *((from ^what !I was s\aying#)) - / 5 3 30 5270 1 1 l 11 ^what* you are !s\aying th/en# . / 5 3 30 5280 1 1 l 11 ^is that !you bel\/ieve# . / 5 3 30 5290 1 1 l 11 that - the ^abol:\/ition# / 5 3 30 5300 1 1 l 11 of ^corporal p\unishment# / 5 3 30 5310 1 1 l 11 for the [sei?] "^sole off\ence# . / 5 3 30 5320 1 1 l 11 for ^which it . :could be ap:pl\/ied# / 5 3 30 5330 1 1 l 11 ^up to nineteen forty-:\/eight# - - / 5 3 30 5340 1 2 l 12 ^had an . ^had an . [@] . an effect to / 5 3 30 5340 1 1 l 12 "!\increase# . / 5 3 30 5350 1 1 l 11 ^crimes of v\/iolence# - / 5 3 30 5360 1 2 l 11 which were "^n\ot {^previously p\unishable# by . / 5 3 30 5360 1 1 l 11 ^((b\y it))#}# . / 5 3 31 5370 1 1 l 11 and ^you call !me il!l\ogical# / 5 3 31 5380 1 1 n 11 *^n\o# . / 5 3 31 5390 1 1 n 11 I* "^don`t ((th/ink so at \all))# / 5 3 31 5400 1 1 l 21 *now ^Mr [n@]* / 5 3 31 5410 1 1 w 11 ^[\m]# / 5 3 31 5420 1 1(n 11 ^let me d\eal with _this# - / 5 3 31 5430 1 1 n 11 be^cause it`s !perfectly :l\ogical# - - / 5 3 31 5440 1 1 n 11 ^when a crime of :v\iolence# . / 5 3 31 5450 1 1 n 11 ^is . [@:] . con:d\ucted# . / 5 3 31 5460 1 1 n 11 a^g\ainst# . / 5 3 31 5470 1 1 n 11 ^[ei] !p\erson# - / 5 3 31 5480 1 1 n 11 ^or . com!m\itted# . / 5 3 31 5490 1 1 n 11 a^g\ainst# / 5 3 31 5500 1 1 n 11 a ^p\erson# - - / 5 3 31 5510 1 1 n 11 [dhi:] - di^v\iding l/ine# . / 5 3 31 5520 1 1 n 11 as to whether ^robbery follows or :n\ot# - / 5 3 31 5530 1 1 n 11 is ^very n\arrow# - - / 5 3 31 5540 1 1 n 11 a ^man who goes \out# - / 5 3 31 5550 1 2 n 11 with a ^loaded :g\un in his _pocket - {to / 5 3 31 5550 1 1 n 11 ^r\ob#}# - - / 5 3 31 5560 1 1 n 11 does "^not . very :\often# - / 5 3 31 5570 1 1 n 11 so the ^/\evidence# - / 5 3 32 5580 1 1 n 11 sug^g\ests# - / 5 3 32 5590 1 1 n 11 pre"^m\editatedly# . / 5 3 32 5600 1 1 n 11 ^carry that g\/un# - / 5 3 32 5610 1 1 n 11 in ^order to !m\urder# - - / 5 3 32 5620 1 1 n 11 but he ^m\ay _murder# - / 5 3 32 5630 1 1 l 11 ^y/es# / 5 3 32 5640 1 1(n 11 - be^cause he com!mits the :cr\/ime# . / 5 3 32 5650 1 1 n 11 there may ^be . a re:s/istance# - / 5 3 32 5660 1 1 l 11 ^y/es# / 5 3 32 5670 1 1(n 11 to the ^r/obbery# - / 5 3 32 5680 1 1 n 11 and he ^uses the g\un# - - / 5 3 32 5690 1 1 n 11 and . the ^point I`m trying to m/\ake to _you# / 5 3 32 5700 1 1 n 11 ^\/is# - / 5 3 32 5710 1 1 n 11 that ^I th\ink# - / 5 3 32 5720 1 1 n 11 that if ^young 'male 'thug kn/\ew# - / 5 3 32 5730 1 1 n 11 that . ^if they !d\id these dreadful th/ings# - / 5 3 32 5740 1 1 n 11 they "^m\ight# - - / 5 3 32 5750 1 1 n 11 ^finish \up# - / 5 3 32 5760 1 1 n 11 with ^having their :trousers taken d=own# - / 5 3 32 5770 1 1 n 11 and their ^backsides b/irched# - / 5 3 33 5780 1 2 n 11 and the humili^ation and the p/\ain - {^of / 5 3 33 5780 1 1 n 11 th\at#}# - / 5 3 33 5790 1 1 n 11 "^would /act# . / 5 3 33 5800 1 1 n 11 in "^m\y v/iew# - / 5 3 33 5810 1 1 n 11 and I`m ex^pressing a :p\ersonal op/inion# - / 5 3 33 5820 1 1 n 11 ^as [ei] {:p\owerful} . de":t\errent# - / 5 3 33 5830 2 1 n 21 *there* / 5 3 33 5840 1 1 l 11 *^but you :s=ee#* / 5 3 33 5830 1 1(n 11 is ^n/othing# / 5 3 33 5850 1 1 n 11 il^logical about :th\at# / 5 3 33 5860 1 1 n 20 *((sylls))* / 5 3 33 5870 1 1 w 11 *but ^Mr Nab/\arro#* / 5 3 33 5880 1 1 w 11 we "^know that you be:l/\ieve _this# / 5 3 33 5890 1 1 l 11 ^qu\ite# / 5 3 33 5900 1 1(w 11 the ^str/\ange _fact _is# / 5 3 33 5910 1 2 w 11 that you ^still haven`t given us a !r\eason _for / 5 3 33 5910 1 1 w 11 it# / 5 3 33 5920 1 1 w 11 the ^only reason you`ve :g\iven f/or _us# . / 5 3 33 5930 1 2 w 11 [i] ^is . if I !may spell it :out to you once / 5 3 33 5930 1 1 w 11 :m\ore# - / 5 3 33 5940 1 1 w 11 ^is . the !f\ollowing# - / 5 3 33 5950 1 1 w 11 the "^only :cr\ime# . / 5 3 33 5960 1 1 w 11 for ^which this :punishment was a !p\unishment# - / 5 3 34 5970 1 1 w 11 "^after its abol\/ition# - / 5 3 34 5980 1 1 w 11 de^cr\eased# - / 5 3 34 5990 1 1 w 11 for e^leven y\ears# - / 5 3 34 6000 1 1 w 11 you "^base on th/is# / 5 3 34 6010 1 1 w 11 the ^\inference# - / 5 3 34 6020 1 1 w 11 that if it "^had been appl\ied# / 5 3 34 6030 1 1 w 11 to ^cr\imes# / 5 3 34 6040 1 1 w 11 it ^never !h\ad been appl/ied _to# . / 5 3 34 6050 1 1 w 11 they ^wouldn`t have !\increased# / 5 3 34 6060 1 1 w 11 now - ^this seems to me . t/otally !t\ortuous# / 5 3 34 6070 1 1 w 11 and ^can I give you :one other f\act# / 5 3 34 6080 1 1 w 11 which ^might 'strike you h\ere# - / 5 3 34 6090 1 1 w 11 ^that is to s/ay# / 5 3 34 6100 1 1 w 12 that ^this [kra:] ^this p\unishment# . / 5 3 34 6110 1 1 w 11 ^only ever existed in :England and W\ales# - / 5 3 34 6120 1 1 w 11 it ^never existed in :Sc\otland# - - / 5 3 34 6130 1 1 w 22 *^it . [no] . ^it* / 5 3 34 6140 1 1 n 11 *well ^never`s* a :long t\ime# / 5 3 34 6150 1 1 w 11 ^y\es# . / 5 3 34 6160 1 2 w 13 but ^not . [no . @ @:] . ^certainly *not before / 5 3 34 6160 1 1 w 13 ((^nineteen f\orty-_eight#)) / 5 3 35 6170 1 1 w 21 in the ^last* / 5 3 35 6180 1 1 l 21 *((^certainly not sylls))* / 5 3 35 6190 1 1 w 12 [i] ^in . ^in the last c\entury you s/ee# - / 5 3 35 6200 1 1 w 11 now . there`s a ^very striking f\act# - / 5 3 35 6210 1 1 w 11 that . ^crimes of :v\iolence# / 5 3 35 6220 1 1 w 11 in "^g\eneral# - / 5 3 35 6230 1 1 w 11 in ^England and Sc\/otland# - / 5 3 35 6240 1 1 w 11 de^cr\eased# - / 5 3 35 6250 1 1 w 11 ['ma:kid] . "^decreased :m\/arkedly# . / 5 3 35 6260 1 1 w 11 be^tween eighteen n=inety# . / 5 3 35 6270 1 1 w 11 and ^nineteen thirty-f\our# - / 5 3 35 6280 1 2 w 12 ^this is . [@:] . ^this of course was a / 5 3 35 6280 1 1 w 12 !g\eneral# - / 5 3 35 6290 1 1 w 11 ^d\ecrease# . / 5 3 35 6300 1 2 w 11 ^due to im'provement of 'social con'ditions and 'so/ 5 3 35 6300 1 1 w 11 on and !s\o _forth# / 5 3 35 6310 1 1 w 20 *[b@]* / 5 3 35 6320 1 1 n 11 *but* it`s ^n/ot h\alting _you# . / 5 3 35 6330 1 1 w 20 +((it))+ / 5 3 35 6340 1 1(n 11 +it`s+ ^not . an im:pr\/ovement# - / 5 3 35 6350 1 2 n 11 which has ^manifested it:self in the :last *thirty / 5 3 35 6350 1 1 n 11 :y/\ears#* / 5 3 36 6360 1 1 w 11 *"^n\o _Mr* Na_barro# / 5 3 36 6370 1 1 w 11 but ^that is not my !p\oint# / 5 3 36 6380 1 1 w 11 ^my !point _is that the :d/\ecrease# / 5 3 36 6390 1 1 w 12 that took ^part . ^p/\art in _this# . / 5 3 36 6400 1 1 w 11 took ^pl\ace in this period of thirty y/ears# - / 5 3 36 6410 1 1 w 11 was . [v] "^vastly greater in :Sc\otland# - / 5 3 36 6420 1 1 w 11 ^where this penalty "!d\idn`t ex/ist# - / 5 3 36 6430 1 2 w 11 than it ^was in England and Wales where it :d\id / 5 3 36 6430 1 1 w 11 ex_ist# / 5 3 36 6440 1 1 w 11 now *^how do you answer th\at _fact#* / 5 3 36 6450 1 2 n 12 *I ^don`t think* . I ^don`t think 'that proves . / 5 3 36 6450 1 1 n 12 "anything at "=all# / 5 3 36 6460 1 1 n 21 *((in the ^way of))* / 5 3 36 6470 1 1 w 11 *^n\o# . / 5 3 36 6480 1 1 w 11 but it* ^does sug:g/\est +_something#+ / 5 3 36 6490 1 1 n 12 +now ^let me+ ^let me :f\inish# . / 5 3 36 6500 1 1 n 11 ^pl\ease# - - / 5 3 37 6510 1 2 n 11 [@] . you`re ^trying to argue this :case !on . / 5 3 37 6510 1 1 n 11 sta!tistical . lo:g\istics# - - / 5 3 37 6520 1 1 n 11 *the ^popul\ation# . / 5 3 37 6530 1 1 n 20 ((as a))* / 5 3 37 6540 1 1 l 11 *^/\evidence#* - / 5 3 37 6550 1 1 l 11 ^/\evidence# . / 5 3 37 6560 1 1 l 11 ^that`s \/all# - / 5 3 37 6570 1 1 w 11 *((and we ^still))* are waiting for !y\ours# / 5 3 37 6580 1 1 n 13 *I ^don`t think* - - I ^don`t . I ^don`t th/ink# / 5 3 37 6590 1 2 n 11 that there "^\is . {^any sta:tistical :\evidence . / 5 3 37 6590 1 1 n 11 {that ^may be rel\ated {to this ^m\atter#}#}#}# - / 5 3 37 6600 1 1 n 11 be^cause we [g@] "!n\ot comp/aring# / 5 3 37 6610 1 1 n 11 *^like . !with . !l\ike# . / 5 3 37 6620 1 1 n 21 ^let me finish the point* / 5 3 37 6630 1 1 l 11 *but ^what evidence "!\is _there# - / 5 3 37 6640 1 1 l 11 ^what evidence have* "!y\ou# / 5 3 37 6650 1 1 n 11 ^let me finish the point about Sc\otland# - / 5 3 38 6660 1 1 n 11 ^Scotland has a population of five m\illions# - / 5 3 38 6670 1 1 n 11 ^England has a popul/ation# / 5 3 38 6680 1 1 n 11 ^of - forty-two forty-'three m\illions# / 5 3 38 6690 1 1 w 11 ^tr/ue# / 5 3 38 6700 1 1 l 20 *(coughs)* / 5 3 38 6710 1 1 n 11 ^social conditions *.* n/ow# / 5 3 38 6720 1 2 n 11 are ^very different from social conditions in the / 5 3 38 6720 1 1 n 11 nineteen !th\irties# - - / 5 3 38 6730 1 1 n 11 ^[dhi:] - - "!p\/aradox# - / 5 3 38 6740 1 1 n 11 and it ^\is# . / 5 3 38 6750 1 1 n 11 a ^p=aradox# . / 5 3 38 6760 1 1 n 11 ^all over the British \Isles# - / 5 3 38 6770 1 1 n 11 "^\is# / 5 3 38 6780 1 1 n 11 that be^fore the :w\/ar# - / 5 3 38 6790 1 1 n 11 ^we were inclined to s\ay# / 5 3 38 6800 1 1 n 11 that ^social cr\imes# - / 5 3 38 6810 1 1 n 11 were the re^sult . of . :bad social env\ironment# -/ 5 3 38 6820 1 1 n 11 ^social conditions have im:proved e"n\ormously# - / 5 3 38 6830 1 1 n 11 ^in the last ten to fifteen y\ears# - / 5 3 38 6840 1 1 n 11 and ^one would have th/ought# / 5 3 38 6850 1 1 n 11 ^l\ogically# - / 5 3 38 6860 1 1 n 11 that ^cr\/ime# / 5 3 38 6870 1 1 n 11 would have di^m\inished# - - / 5 3 39 6880 1 1 n 11 ^on the !c\ontrary# - / 5 3 39 6890 1 1 n 11 ^cr/imes {of ^violence against the p/erson#}# . / 5 3 39 6900 1 1 n 11 have ^{"h\ugely} :in!cr\eased# / 5 3 39 6910 1 1 w 11 we "^kn\ow _that# / 5 3 39 6920 1 1 w 11 ^Mr Nab/arro# / 5 3 39 6930 2 1 w 22 ^what we`re not *cl\/ear is ^what* / 5 3 39 6940 1 1 n 11 *^w\ell# . / 5 3 39 6950 1 1 n 21 ((^here is))* / 5 3 39 6930 1 1(w 12 the flogging has :got to !d\o with _it# - / 5 3 39 6960 1 1 n 11 the ^flogging has got th\is to _do with it# - / 5 3 39 6970 1 2 n 11 and I ^don`t like your con:tinuous use of the word / 5 3 39 6970 1 1 n 11 !fl\ogging# - / 5 3 39 6980 1 1 w 11 ju^dicial b\eating# . / 5 3 39 6990 1 1 w 11 I ^beg your p\ardon# / 5 3 39 7000 1 2 n 11 ju^dicial beating`s a !rather different [@:] - a / 5 3 39 7000 1 1 n 11 :rather different :m\atter# / 5 3 40 7010 1 2 w 11 I`ve ^got some :facts to :show you that :caning / 5 3 40 7010 1 1 w 11 doesn`t work :\either# / 5 3 40 7020 1 1 w 11 ^come to :th\at# / 5 3 40 7030 1 1 w 20 *but [@]* / 5 3 40 7040 1 1 n 11 *[@:] . ^just a* m\oment# - / 5 3 40 7050 1 1 w 20 [h@ h@] - / 5 3 40 7060 1 1(n 11 ^just a m\oment# - / 5 3 40 7070 1 1 n 11 you ^see I !think the responsib\ility# / 5 3 40 7080 1 1 n 11 ^does r/\est# / 5 3 40 7090 1 1 n 11 with the auth^\/orities# . / 5 3 40 7100 1 1 n 11 for the ^G\/overnment# - / 5 3 40 7110 1 1 n 11 to en^deavour to pro:t\ect# / 5 3 40 7120 1 2 n 11 the ^ninety-n/\ine {^point n/\ine {per / 5 3 40 7120 1 1 n 11 ^c\ent#}#}# - / 5 3 40 7130 1 1 n 11 of a com^m\unity in England and W/ales# / 5 3 40 7140 1 1 n 11 which is "^l\aw-a_biding# / 5 3 40 7150 1 1 l 11 ^so do w\e# / 5 3 40 7160 1 1 n 21 ^and [@m] / 5 3 40 7170 1 1 w 11 en^t/\irely# / 5 3 40 7180 1 1 n 11 well I`m ^very glad to :h\ear th/at# . / 5 3 40 7190 1 1 n 11 be^cause - pro!gressive \efforts have been m/ade# -/ 5 3 41 7200 1 1 n 11 ^over the last thirteen y/ears# / 5 3 41 7210 1 1 n 11 to ^find a !f\ormula# - / 5 3 41 7220 1 1 n 11 to . "^h\alt# - / 5 3 41 7230 1 1 n 11 to ar"^r/\est# . / 5 3 41 7240 1 1 n 11 this ^huge /increase# / 5 3 41 7250 1 2 n 12 of ^crimes against the [p . @] . of ^crimes of / 5 3 41 7250 1 1 n 12 violence a:gainst the !p\erson# . / 5 3 41 7260 1 1 n 11 and the ^pl\ain fact of the matter /is# / 5 3 41 7270 1 1 n 11 ^they have "not suc!!c\eeded# . / 5 3 41 7280 1 1 n 11 the ^crimes go :/up# / 5 3 41 7290 1 1 n 11 ^/every !!y\ear# - / 5 3 41 7300 1 1 w 11 ^tr/ue# / 5 3 41 7310 1 1(n 11 and ^while I`m :very /\anxious# / 5 3 41 7320 1 1 n 11 and ^w/\illing# - / 5 3 41 7330 1 2 n 11 to a^wait the :outcome of Mr :Butler`s re:formative/ 5 3 41 7330 1 1 n 11 !m/\easures# - / 5 3 41 7340 1 1 n 11 his ^new de!t\ention _centres# / 5 3 41 7350 1 1 n 11 his [@ . ?@:] ^harder !tr\aining# - / 5 3 41 7360 1 1 n 11 of ^{young !th\ugs} and the re!m\ainder# - / 5 3 42 7370 1 1 n 11 ^r/\eally# / 5 3 42 7380 1 1 n 11 there ^must b/\e [@:]# - / 5 3 42 7390 1 1 n 11 there ^must be an . :\end# / 5 3 42 7400 1 1 n 11 ^s/\ome _time# / 5 3 42 7410 1 1 n 11 to ^public "!p\atience {in this ^m\atter#}# / 5 3 42 7420 1 1 w 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 42 7430 1 1 w 11 but ^Mr Na!b\arro# / 5 3 42 7440 1 1 w 11 ^this is . if I may say so begging the !qu\estion# / 5 3 42 7450 2 1 w 21 because we / 5 3 42 7460 1 1 n 20 *(([o:]))* / 5 3 42 7450 1 2(w 11 *"^/\all* a_gree {that ^we are looking for / 5 3 42 7450 1 1(w 11 m\eans#}# - / 5 3 42 7470 1 1 w 11 to . [m] to . ^stop the rise in the cr\ime# / 5 3 42 7480 1 1 w 11 ^what we`re pointing :\out /is# / 5 3 42 7490 1 1 w 11 that the ^means that you \/advocate# / 5 3 42 7500 1 1 w 11 "^aren`t 'means for 'doing !th\is# . / 5 3 42 7510 1 1 w 11 so ^wh/\y do you _say# . / 5 3 42 7520 1 2 w 11 ^now we`ve tried all these others we must :fall / 5 3 42 7520 1 1 w 11 back on !th\is _means# / 5 3 42 7530 1 2 w 11 because our ^whole *argument is :that it "!!\isn`t / 5 3 42 7530 1 1 w 11 a _means#* / 5 3 43 7540 1 2 n 12 *now now I ^don`t* - now ^just a !m\oment {^Mr . / 5 3 43 7540 1 1 n 12 W\illiams#}# / 5 3 43 7550 1 1 n 11 ^why fall :b\ack# - - / 5 3 43 7560 1 1 n 11 ^/\I`m _not [@]# . / 5 3 43 7570 1 1 n 11 ^falling b\/ack# / 5 3 43 7580 1 1 n 11 on ^\anything# - - - / 5 3 43 7590 1 2 w 11 well you ^said an *end of public !p\atience _Mr / 5 3 43 7590 1 1 w 11 [_n@]#* / 5 3 43 7600 1 2 n 13 *^this [@] this - ^this* . ^this [@:] / 5 3 43 7600 1 1 n 13 :p\unishment# - / 5 3 43 7610 1 1 n 11 was ^only appl/icable# / 5 3 43 7620 1 1 n 11 be^fore nineteen forty-/eight# . / 5 3 43 7630 1 1 n 11 to a ^relatively "n\arrow - - {^s\ector#}# / 5 3 43 7640 1 1 n 11 of ^violent cr\imes# / 5 3 43 7650 1 1 w 11 [m]^[h/m]# / 5 3 43 7660 1 1(n 11 ^with r\obbery# / 5 3 43 7670 1 1 w 11 [m]^[h/m]# - / 5 3 44 7680 1 1(n 11 ^I say n/ow# / 5 3 44 7690 1 1 n 11 that it ^ought to be ex:t/ended# / 5 3 44 7700 1 1 n 11 in a ^m\ilder f/orm# - / 5 3 44 7710 1 1 n 11 for the ^second off/ence# . / 5 3 44 7720 1 1 n 11 and *^\after#* / 5 3 44 7730 1 1 l 11 *well in* ^that c/ase# / 5 3 44 7740 1 2 l 11 the . the . the ^onus is still more "!str\ongly on / 5 3 44 7740 1 1 l 11 y/ou# / 5 3 44 7750 1 1 l 11 to pro^duce some \evidence# . / 5 3 44 7760 1 1 l 11 that would ^have the ef'fect you !!cl\aim# / 5 3 44 7770 1 1 l 11 and ^so f/ar# / 5 3 44 7780 1 1 l 11 you have ^not pro'duced a "!!scr\ap of _evidence# / 5 3 44 7790 1 1 n 11 ((but ^Mr)) L\evin# . / 5 3 44 7800 1 1 n 11 I ^must answer one question at a :t\ime# / 5 3 44 7810 1 1 n 11 ^pl/\ease# *.* / 5 3 44 7820 1 1 ? 20 *[m]* / 5 3 44 7830 1 1(n 11 - and . you`re ^gr\/illing _me# / 5 3 44 7840 1 1 n 11 ^y\es# . / 5 3 44 7850 1 1 n 11 but I ^must answer :one question at a !t\ime# - / 5 3 44 7860 1 1 n 11 ^n/\o# - / 5 3 44 7870 1 1 n 11 it is im^p\ossible {to pro^d\uce#}# . / 5 3 44 7880 1 1 n 11 ^factual . :\/evidence# / 5 3 44 7890 1 1 n 11 for ^something which has never :been "!tr\ied# / 5 3 45 7900 1 1 w 11 *((^y\es# / 5 3 45 7910 1 1 w 21 but ^this is))* / 5 3 45 7920 1 1 l 11 *"^\ah# / 5 3 45 7930 1 1 l 11 but ^this isn`t* {:qu\ite} !tr\ue {^Mr Nab\arro#}# / 5 3 45 7940 1 1 l 11 because you "^did mention at :\one p/oint# - / 5 3 45 7950 1 1 l 11 [@] ^when you be:g\/an# - / 5 3 45 7960 1 1 l 11 that this was "^not a pr/oblem# / 5 3 45 7970 1 1 l 11 and I en^tirely a:gr\ee with y/ou# / 5 3 45 7980 1 1 l 11 which is ^solely confined to !Br\itain# - / 5 3 45 7990 1 2 l 11 you ^said that [dhi: @] this [@] . :this is a / 5 3 45 7990 1 1 l 11 problem :other countries !h\ave# / 5 3 45 8000 1 1 l 11 and in^deed they !d\o# / 5 3 45 8010 1 1 l 11 and ^perhaps . in :some cases . !w/orse# / 5 3 45 8020 1 1 l 11 and in ^some cases not so b\/adly# / 5 3 45 8030 1 1 l 11 as ^w\e _do# - / 5 3 45 8040 1 1 l 11 but ^one thing is :very important :h\/ere# / 5 3 45 8050 1 1 l 11 and ^that /is# / 5 3 45 8060 1 1 l 11 that [bri] ^why should :Britain be the ":/\only# / 5 3 45 8070 1 1 l 11 ^c\/ountry# - / 5 3 45 8080 1 1 l 11 in ^which this agit\/ation# / 5 3 45 8090 1 1 l 11 for ^more . judicial b\/eating# / 5 3 45 8100 1 1 l 11 should ex^\ist# - / 5 3 45 8110 1 1 l 11 it ex^ists nowhere /\else# - / 5 3 46 8120 1 1 l 11 ^one of the most :\interesting# . / 5 3 46 8130 1 1 l 11 ^parts of the :Home Office re:p\ort# . / 5 3 46 8140 1 1 l 11 the ^Home Office`s Ad:v\isory {^C\ouncil#}# . / 5 3 46 8150 1 1 l 11 of ^what the situation 'in those countries !w\as# -/ 5 3 46 8160 1 1 l 11 and with^out !any exc\/eption# . / 5 3 46 8170 1 1 l 11 the ^situation was that in !th/ose c\ountries# / 5 3 46 8180 1 1 l 11 that had a"^b\olished _corporal _punishment# / 5 3 46 8190 1 1 l 11 which was a "^very large ma:j\ority /of _them# - / 5 3 46 8200 1 1 l 11 there had been "^n\o sig_nificant _increase# / 5 3 46 8210 1 1 l 11 of "^\any _kind# / 5 3 46 8220 1 1 l 11 in ^cr/ime# . / 5 3 46 8230 1 1 l 11 and there was ^no . pr\/essure# . / 5 3 46 8240 1 2 l 11 for the ^reintro!duction of :corporal / 5 3 46 8240 1 1 l 11 :p/unishment# . / 5 3 46 8250 1 1 l 11 and "^n\o bel/ief# / 5 3 46 8260 1 1 l 11 that if it "^w\ere introd/uced# / 5 3 46 8270 1 1 l 11 it would ^do anything about the !cr\ime _wave# . / 5 3 46 8280 1 1 l 11 yet ^these c\/ountries# . / 5 3 46 8290 1 1 l 11 ^as we`re !both a:gr\/eed# - / 5 3 46 8300 1 1 l 11 ^h/\ave# . / 5 3 46 8310 1 2 l 11 [@] an in ^some cases an :equally serious or :even / 5 3 46 8310 1 1 l 11 "!m\ore serious crime situ/ation# / 5 3 47 8320 1 1 l 11 than ^we do in this !!c\ountry# / 5 3 47 8330 1 1 n 11 [? @ m m] ^L\evin# . / 5 3 47 8340 1 1 n 11 you ^use the w/ords# / 5 3 47 8350 1 1 n 11 I re^peat them ex:\/actly# - / 5 3 47 8360 1 1 n 11 ^n/o# . / 5 3 47 8370 1 1 n 11 sig^nificant . :increase . in cr\ime# / 5 3 47 8380 2 2 w 21 he ^meant consequent on [dhi: @] . removal *on the / 5 3 47 8380 2 1 w 21 on the* / 5 3 47 8390 1 1 n 11 *of corporal ^p\unishment#* / 5 3 47 8380 1 1(w 11 abol:ition of [ka:] corporal !p\unishment# / 5 3 47 8400 1 1 n 11 well you ^didn`t !s\ay _so# / 5 3 47 8410 1 1 w 11 *well ^that ((was what he !sh\ould)) have* _done# / 5 3 47 8420 1 1 l 12 *((^no . we ^sh\ould#))* / 5 3 47 8430 1 1 n 11 ^social cond/itions# / 5 3 47 8440 1 1 n 11 ^v/ary !w\idely# - - / 5 3 47 8450 1 1 n 11 and in ^this c/ountry# / 5 3 47 8460 1 1 n 11 ^we`ve had this . "!v\irulent# . / 5 3 47 8470 1 2 n 11 and con"^t\inuing - {^\increase# . {^in crimes of / 5 3 47 8470 1 1 n 11 *violence against the :p\erson#}#}#* / 5 3 48 8480 1 1 w 11 *^as with 'other +c=ountries#+ / 5 3 48 8490 1 1 l 11 +^as have+ !\other _countries#* - / 5 3 48 8500 1 1 n 11 in ^many of them not ((to)) the same ext\ent# / 5 3 48 8510 1 1 w 11 in ^m\any of them# / 5 3 48 8520 1 1 w 11 [t] . *^Levin s/aid# / 5 3 48 8530 1 1 w 11 that they ^h/ave# / 5 3 48 8540 1 1 w 11 ((^y\es#)) / 5 3 48 8550 1 1 w 11 but in ^other c/ountries# / 5 3 48 8560 1 1 w 11 to a ^gr\eater ex_tent#* / 5 3 48 8570 1 1 n 11 *((and ^sylls in)) c=ountries# / 5 3 48 8580 1 1 n 11 the ^same* . !packed . popul\ation# / 5 3 48 8590 1 1 n 11 and ^I do "!not bel/ieve# / 5 3 48 8600 1 3 n 11 that you ^can . apply . :/\any {stat^\istical / 5 3 48 8600 1 2 n 11 lo_gistics#} - {to a pro^posed . r\emedy# . {that / 5 3 48 8600 1 1 n 11 has ^not . yet . been tr\ied#}#}# / 5 3 49 8610 1 1 w 11 well "^th\en Mr Nab/arro# / 5 3 49 8620 1 2 w 11 we ^have to ask you what your . what :y\our / 5 3 49 8620 1 1 w 11 _reasons {^\are#}# / 5 3 49 8630 1 1 w 11 since ^you . your!self ad:m/it# - / 5 3 49 8640 1 1 w 11 and in^deed give . a !r\eason# / 5 3 49 8650 1 2 w 11 for . ad^mitting that the stat:istics are quite / 5 3 49 8650 1 1 w 11 ir!r\elevant to :th/is# - / 5 3 49 8660 1 2 w 11 ^h/ow do you "kn\ow {that ^this is going to / 5 3 49 8660 1 1 w 11 ^w\ork#}# . / 5 3 49 8670 1 1 w 11 by ^intu/ition# / 5 3 49 8680 1 1 w 11 or . ^wh\at# / 5 3 49 8690 1 1 n 11 [@] ^n/\o# . / 5 3 49 8700 1 1 n 12 [?@m] . I ^did ^not use the word ir:r\elevant# / 5 3 49 8710 1 1 w 20 [m] / 5 3 49 8720 1 2(n 11 you ^mustn`t put words into my "!m\outh . {Mr / 5 3 49 8720 1 1(n 11 W\illiams#}# / 5 3 49 8730 1 1 w 11 I ^thought you said nothing to d\o with _it# / 5 3 49 8740 1 1 w 11 *I ^beg your p\ardon#* / 5 3 49 8750 1 2 n 12 *I ^didn`t* [@:] . I ^didn`t say that they were / 5 3 49 8750 1 1 n 12 ir:r\elevant# . / 5 3 50 8760 1 1 n 11 of ^c\ourse# . / 5 3 50 8770 1 1 n 11 ^I en:deavour to ex:amine as a :l\egislator# - - / 5 3 50 8780 1 1 n 11 ^every \aspect of a _problem# / 5 3 50 8790 1 2 n 11 and ^all [dhi:] . facts and figures . and / 5 3 50 8790 1 1 n 11 statements and op/inions# / 5 3 50 8800 1 1 n 11 that are a"^v\ailable to _me# - / 5 3 50 8810 1 1 n 11 but ^then I have to make up my own m\ind# - - / 5 3 50 8820 2 1 n 21 *and I* / 5 3 50 8830 1 1 w 21 *but ^you* / 5 3 50 8820 1 1(n 11 ^m\ade up _my _mind# - / 5 3 50 8840 1 1 n 21 *^and 'I* / 5 3 50 8850 1 1 w 11 *but ^you said there was !no \evidence#* / 5 3 50 8860 1 1 n 12 ^please let . ^please let me *f\inish#* / 5 3 50 8870 1 1 w 11 *^[\m]#* - / 5 3 50 8880 1 1 n 11 I`ve ^m\ade up _my _mind# - / 5 3 50 8890 1 1 n 11 the ^evidence [@ - ?@:] sub:m\itted# . / 5 3 50 8900 1 1 n 11 as to ^what occ\urred# . / 5 3 50 8910 1 2 n 11 be^fore nineteen forty-:\eight . {I`m ^t\alking / 5 3 50 8910 1 1 n 11 _of#}# - / 5 3 50 8920 1 1 n 11 but ^I`m not a":l/\one in _these _views# - / 5 3 51 8930 1 1 n 11 I`m ^not a par!ticularly !w/\ise _man# - / 5 3 51 8940 1 1 n 11 but I ^have to make up my :m\ind# / 5 3 51 8950 1 1 n 11 on ^contro!versial !\issues# - - / 5 3 51 8960 1 1 n 11 ^I th\ought# / 5 3 51 8970 1 1 n 11 that [@m] - ^Lord P/arker# / 5 3 51 8980 1 1 n 11 the ^Lord Chief J/ustice# - / 5 3 51 8990 1 1 n 11 a ^m\an 'doesn`t achieve the pos/ition# / 5 3 51 9000 1 1 n 11 of ^Lord Chief J/ustice# / 5 3 51 9010 1 1 n 11 with^out - a !l\ifetime {of ex^p\erience#}# / 5 3 51 9020 1 1 n 11 as a ^b\arrister {and as a ^j\udge#}# - / 5 3 51 9030 1 1 n 11 ^made [ei] par!ticularly ":p\owerful c/ase# / 5 3 51 9040 1 1 n 11 for ^what I am /advocating# / 5 3 51 9050 1 1 n 11 ^in the House of L/ords# / 5 3 51 9060 1 1 n 11 ^only a few weeks a!!g\o# - / 5 3 51 9070 1 1 n 11 it is "^tr\ue# / 5 3 51 9080 1 1 n 11 that ^he - was in a mi!n/\ority# / 5 3 51 9090 1 1 w 11 a^mong !j\udges# . / 5 3 51 9100 1 1 w 11 which is an im^p\ortant _fact# / 5 3 51 9110 1 1 n 11 ^n\o# . / 5 3 51 9120 1 1 n 11 ^only those j/udges# / 5 3 51 9130 1 1 n 11 that ^sat in the :House of !L\ords# / 5 3 52 9140 1 1 w 11 ^ah w\ell# - / 5 3 52 9150 1 1 w 20 [m] / 5 3 52 9160 1 1 n 11 we ^don`t know the o:p\/inion# / 5 3 52 9170 1 2 n 11 there`s ^been 'no refer:endum of {:/\all} / 5 3 52 9170 1 1 n 11 "!j/\udges# / 5 3 52 9180 1 2 w 12 but there ^is an . we "^know that there`s a :strong/ 5 3 52 9180 1 1 w 12 division of o:p\inion among _judges *on _this#* / 5 3 52 9190 1 1 l 11 *there "^\is#* . / 5 3 52 9200 1 1 l 11 +^y\es#+ / 5 3 52 9210 1 2 n 11 +there+ is a di^vision of o:p\inion Mr / 5 3 52 9210 1 1 n 11 W/\illiams# - / 5 3 52 9220 1 1 n 11 in . ^every . section . :of so!c\iety# . / 5 3 52 9230 1 2 n 11 in^cluding . "!h\ighly in_formed _people - {^on / 5 3 52 9230 1 1 n 11 this m\atter#}# / 5 3 52 9240 1 1 w 11 well "^I think the difference of op/inion# / 5 3 52 9250 1 2 w 11 is [@] between ^those who are pre:pared to . look / 5 3 52 9250 1 1 w 11 at :some form of ob:jective :\/evidence# / 5 3 53 9260 1 1 w 11 and ^those that !\aren`t# / 5 3 53 9270 2 1 w 21 but . [@] / 5 3 53 9280 1 1 n 20 *((no sylls))* / 5 3 53 9270 1 1(w 11 *Mr Na^b\arro#* / 5 3 53 9290 1 1 w 11 ^can we apply this to :c\apital p/unishment# / 5 3 53 9300 1 1 w 11 because I ^think that our :time is getting :sh/ort#/ 5 3 53 9310 2 1 w 21 and I ^think *you your 'views* / 5 3 53 9320 1 1 n 11 *^yes !I agr\ee#* / 5 3 53 9310 1 1(w 11 on !c\apital _punishment# . / 5 3 53 9330 1 2 w 11 perhaps . ^also fall :rather under the same / 5 3 53 9330 1 1 w 11 !h\eading d/on`t _they# - / 5 3 53 9340 1 2 w 11 because ex"^/actly the same :issues arise h\ere of / 5 3 53 9340 1 1 w 11 _course# / 5 3 53 9350 1 1 w 20 because . / 5 3 53 9360 1 1 n 11 I be^lieve y\es# . / 5 3 53 9370 1 1 n 11 I be^lieve in regard to :c\apital p/unishment# / 5 3 53 9380 1 2 n 11 which ^is of course [@ . @:] the !d\eath / 5 3 53 9380 1 1 n 11 _sentence# - / 5 3 54 9390 1 1 n 11 for ^m\urder# - / 5 3 54 9400 1 1 n 11 that it ^should be appl/ied# / 5 3 54 9410 1 1 n 11 to ^all m\urderers# / 5 3 54 9420 1 2 n 11 the ^Homicide Act of :nineteen fifty-:seven of / 5 3 54 9420 1 1 n 11 course di"!v\ided# - / 5 3 54 9430 1 1 n 11 [?@:] ^sentences be:tween - !capital p/unishment# -/ 5 3 54 9440 1 1 n 11 and . "^n\on-capital {^p\unishment#}# - / 5 3 54 9450 1 1 n 11 "^th\us# - / 5 3 54 9460 1 1 n 11 [@:m] . for ex^\ample# - / 5 3 54 9470 1 1 n 11 a ^man . who . is . found . :g\uilty# - / 5 3 54 9480 1 1 n 11 of ^murder . by :sh/ooting# . / 5 3 54 9490 2 1 n 21 or ^causing an *.* / 5 3 54 9500 1 1 l 20 *[m]* / 5 3 54 9490 1 1(n 11 ex:pl/osion# - / 5 3 54 9510 1 1 n 11 ^may be h\anged# - - / 5 3 54 9520 1 1 l 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 54 9530 1 1 n 11 [@:] a ^man . who - [?] :poisons his !w/ife# - / 5 3 54 9540 1 1 n 11 may ^n\ot be _hanged# / 5 3 54 9550 1 1 l 11 ^qu/ite# / 5 3 54 9560 1 1 n 11 ^that seems to m/e# / 5 3 54 9570 1 1 n 11 [ei] ^quite ridiculous di:v\ision# . / 5 3 55 9580 2 1 n 22 +and I would ^far+ / 5 3 55 9590 1 1 w 11 +^y\es# / 5 3 55 9600 1 1 w 20 ((but))+ / 5 3 55 9610 1 1 l 20 +((sylls))+ / 5 3 55 9580 1 1(n 12 sooner I would ^far sooner h\ave it# - / 5 3 55 9620 1 1 n 11 ^all black or :all wh\ite# / 5 3 55 9630 2 1 n 22 *I would ^far sooner* - / 5 3 55 9640 1 1 w 11 *^y\es# / 5 3 55 9650 1 1 w 11 well I ^think we agr/\eed* on _that point# - / 5 3 55 9660 1 1 l 11 ^y/es# / 5 3 55 9630 1 1(n 12 a^bolish the death sentence alto:g\ether# - / 5 3 55 9670 1 1 w 11 ^y\es# / 5 3 55 9680 1 2(n 11 ^or - hang !all murderers who are proved to 'be / 5 3 55 9680 1 1(n 11 *((s\ane))#* / 5 3 55 9690 1 1 w 11 *I ^think* this is !one point we a:gr\ee /on# / 5 3 55 9700 1 2 w 11 ^namely that the !Homicide Act as it stands is / 5 3 55 9700 1 1 w 11 extremely a:n\omalous# / 5 3 56 9710 1 2 w 11 the ^difference is that we think there should be / 5 3 56 9710 1 1 w 11 :n=one# / 5 3 56 9720 1 1 w 11 and ^you think it should be !\everybody# / 5 3 56 9730 1 1 n 20 I [dn] . *well . well . ((not [ev]))* / 5 3 56 9740 1 1 l 20 *we I . not* . +[h@h@ w@]+ / 5 3 56 9750 1 2 w 11 +^everybody+ who isn`t [s@] ins\ane your w/ords / 5 3 56 9750 1 1 w 11 _were# / 5 3 56 9760 1 1 n 11 ^everybody who is !n/\ot in_sane# / 5 3 56 9770 1 1 w 11 [@:] ex^\actly# . / 5 3 56 9780 1 1 w 11 I ^s\aid {^n\ot in_sane#}# . / 5 3 56 9790 1 1 w 20 *((sylls))* / 5 3 56 9800 1 1 l 11 *but ^does* that !m\ean Na_barro# / 5 3 56 9810 1 2 l 12 that ^you would [@: . @] that ^you would even / 5 3 56 9810 1 1 l 12 abolish . the :possibility of re!pr\/ieve# / 5 3 56 9820 1 1 w 11 *^y=es#* / 5 3 56 9830 1 1(l 11 *((for))* the ^sane m/urderer# / 5 3 57 9840 1 1 n 11 ^oh of :c\ourse _not# - / 5 3 57 9850 1 1 n 11 the ^same pro:visions would ap:pl\/y# . / 5 3 57 9860 1 1 n 11 as be"^f\/ore# / 5 3 57 9870 1 1 n 11 the ^Homicide Act of :nineteen fifty-!s\even# - / 5 3 57 9880 1 1 n 11 [@:] ^[ei] repr/ieve# / 5 3 57 9890 1 1 n 11 ^could be gr/anted# . / 5 3 57 9900 1 1 n 11 by the ^Home !S\ecretary# - / 5 3 57 9910 1 1 n 11 com^m\uted# . / 5 3 57 9920 1 1 n 11 com^m\uted# / 5 3 57 9930 1 1 n 11 ^to . a life !s\entence# / 5 3 57 9940 1 2 w 11 ^when you *:say ((he)) you want him to be* / 5 3 57 9940 1 1 w 11 :h\/anged# / 5 3 57 9950 1 1 n 20 *well I want to* / 5 3 57 9960 1 1(w 11 you ^don`t m\ean it# - - / 5 3 57 9970 1 1 n 11 ^well I :mean that . /\everybody# / 5 3 57 9980 1 1 n 11 ^who is . con!victed by the :c\ourts# - / 5 3 57 9990 1 1 n 11 of a ^crime of :m\urder# - / 5 3 5710000 2 1 n 22 *^would be* / 5 3 5710010 1 1 w 11 should be *^sentenced to d\eath#* . / 5 3 5710000 1 1(n 12 should be ^sentenced to d=eath# - / 5 3 5710020 1 2 n 11 and ^then of course it is subject to the ap!p=eal / 5 3 5710020 1 1 n 11 {ma^chinery in the c=ourts#}# - / 5 3 5810030 1 1 n 11 and it is ^subject to the !final pre:r=ogative# . / 5 3 5810040 1 1 n 11 of ^m=ercy# . / 5 3 5810050 1 1 n 11 of the ^Home !S=ecre*tary# / 5 3 5810060 1 1 n 11 who ^may* recommend a re"!pr\ieve# / 5 3 5810070 1 2 w 12 *^well now Mr [n@b@]* - - ^Mr Nabarro we will !now / 5 3 5810070 1 1 w 12 ask you once :m/ore# - / 5 3 5810080 1 1 w 11 the ^same question as we asked you bef\ore# - / 5 3 5810090 1 1 w 11 [@:] . ex"^t\ensive# / 5 3 5810100 1 1 w 11 and "^/\intensive# / 5 3 5810110 1 1 w 11 en^quiries have been m/ade# / 5 3 5810120 1 2 w 11 into ^whether this . :fear of this :penalty . in / 5 3 5810120 1 1 w 11 'fact de'ters 'people from m\urdering# - / 5 3 5810130 1 1 w 11 and ^what we`ve dis:c=overed# - / 5 3 5810140 1 1 w 11 [@:] stat^=istically# / 5 3 5810150 1 1 w 11 ^is that it !d\oesn`t# . / 5 3 5810160 1 2 w 11 and this ^isn`t just a matter of what :you might / 5 3 5810160 1 1 w 11 think rather abstract stat:/istics# / 5 3 5810170 1 2 w 11 we have ^very 'good 'reasons for ":kn\owing _why it/ 5 3 5810170 1 1 w 11 _doesn`t# - / 5 3 5910180 1 1 w 11 ^n\amely# . / 5 3 5910190 1 1 w 11 that the ^vast ma"!j\ority of m/urderers# - / 5 3 5910200 1 3 w 12 ^are ^first of all the vast majority of murderers / 5 3 5910200 1 2 w 12 ((are)) in :some sense [ins @] :some degree / 5 3 5910200 1 1 w 12 ins\/ane# . / 5 3 5910210 1 2 w 12 ^this is . but ^these are . :outside your . orbit / 5 3 5910210 1 1 w 12 !\anyway# - / 5 3 5910220 1 1 w 11 ^this . this is kn\own {to ^be the c\ase#}# / 5 3 5910230 1 1 w 11 in a^nalysis of :c/ases# - / 5 3 5910240 1 1 w 11 ^s\econdly# / 5 3 5910250 1 1 w 11 ^those who !\aren`t ins/ane# / 5 3 5910260 1 1 w 11 the ^vast ma!j\/ority# . / 5 3 5910270 1 1 w 11 are con^cerned with !some personal qu\/arrel# - / 5 3 5910280 1 2 w 11 or have been ^driven to desperation by a :personal / 5 3 5910280 1 1 w 11 re:l/ation# . / 5 3 5910290 1 1 w 11 or ^something of this k\ind# - / 5 3 5910300 1 2 w 11 ^now . !this gives . a :very !good "!!r\eason / 5 3 5910300 1 1 w 11 _why# - / 5 3 5910310 1 2 w 11 sta^tistical evidence shows that this :\isn`t a / 5 3 5910310 1 1 w 11 det/errent# / 5 3 5910320 1 1 w 11 namely ^people in this st/ate# . / 5 3 5910330 1 1 w 11 will "^n\ot be de_terred# / 5 3 6010340 1 1 w 21 ^by this form of . / 5 3 6010350 1 3 n 11 ^well I !don`t think you`re :really [@m . m] . / 5 3 6010350 1 2 n 11 cor:r\ect {on ^th\ose _grounds {Mr / 5 3 6010350 1 1 n 11 ^W\illiams#}#}# - / 5 3 6010360 1 1 n 11 ^in [@:] !nineteen !th\irty# - / 5 3 6010370 1 1 n 11 there were ^one hundred and nine:t\een# - / 5 3 6010380 1 1 n 11 ^m\/urders# / 5 3 6010390 1 1 n 11 ^known to the pol\ice# - / 5 3 6010400 1 1 n 11 only ^six - murderers . were \executed# / 5 3 6010410 1 2 w 11 I`m ^not quite clear what th\at`s sup_posed to / 5 3 6010410 1 1 w 11 _show# / 5 3 6010420 1 1 n 11 ^w\ell# / 5 3 6010430 1 1 n 11 it ^sh\/ows# . / 5 3 6010440 1 1 n 11 that . re^pr\ieves {were ^gr\anted#}# / 5 3 6010450 1 1 n 11 in an over"^wh\elming maj/ority# / 5 3 6010460 1 1 n 11 of de^tected c\ases# / 5 3 6010470 1 2 w 11 *of course a ^lot of the ((sylls)) have got / 5 3 6010470 1 1 w 11 !n\othing to _do with it#* / 5 3 6010480 1 2 l 11 *((sylls effect of))* the death penalty +even / 5 3 6010480 1 1 l 11 "^sm\aller#+ / 5 3 6110490 1 2 n 13 +it`s ^got . it`s ^got+ - it`s ^got a !lot to ":d\o/ 5 3 6110490 1 1 n 13 with _it# - / 5 3 6110500 1 1 n 11 it`s got a ^great d\eal to _do with it# . / 5 3 6110510 1 1 n 11 be^cause [@:] you !did s\ay {of ^c\ourse#}# . / 5 3 6110520 1 1 n 11 that [@] - ^most m\/urderers# / 5 3 6110530 1 1 n 11 ^are in!s\ane# - / 5 3 6110540 1 2 n 11 and [@:] - that they ^shouldn`t . :all be / 5 3 6110540 1 1 n 11 :h\/unged# . / 5 3 6110550 1 1 n 11 ^h\/anged# / 5 3 6110560 1 1 n 11 for ^that !r\eason# / 5 3 6110570 1 2 w 11 ^no that !w\asn`t _my _point {^Mr *. Mr / 5 3 6110570 1 1 w 11 Nab\arro#}# . / 5 3 6110580 1 2 w 11 you a"^gree with that :point* that "!th\ey / 5 3 6110580 1 1 w 11 shouldn`t be h/anged# / 5 3 6110590 1 1 n 23 *^I . ^well if ^you ((sylls))* / 5 3 6110600 1 1(w 11 ^m\y point /is# . / 5 3 6110610 1 1 w 11 that ^murder "!isn`t a ":cr\ime# - / 5 3 6110620 1 2 w 11 from ^which people . are going to be deterred 'by / 5 3 6110620 1 1 w 11 'this 'kind of !p\enalty# / 5 3 6210630 1 2 w 11 *and we ^have very [g] . very good :reasons for / 5 3 6210630 1 1 w 11 !seeing that it !!\is so#* / 5 3 6210640 1 1 n 11 *on the ^c\ontrary# - / 5 3 6210650 1 1 n 11 on the ^c\ontrary# . / 5 3 6210660 1 1 n 11 ^/I# . / 5 3 6210670 1 1 n 11 on the ^c\ontrary#* . / 5 3 6210680 1 2 n 11 ^I think it`s a !very very "!p\owerful / 5 3 6210680 1 1 n 11 de_terrent# - / 5 3 6210690 1 1 n 12 *^and and . [@] . ^y\es# . / 5 3 6210700 1 1 n 11 but I ^c/an`t# - - / 5 3 6210710 1 1 n 11 ^n\o# / 5 3 6210720 1 1 n 20 but it .* / 5 3 6210730 1 1 l 11 *well you "^s\aid _so {Mr Na^b\arro#}# / 5 3 6210740 1 2 l 11 but you ^won`t produce any !\evidence on this / 5 3 6210740 1 1 l 11 _point#* / 5 3 6210750 1 1 n 11 ^this is a m\atter# . / 5 3 6210760 1 1 n 11 ^L/evin# . / 5 3 6210770 1 1 n 11 ^as in the case of corporal :p/unishment# / 5 3 6210780 1 2 n 11 which I ^d\on`t be_lieve {can be ^proved by / 5 3 6210780 1 1 n 11 stat\istics#}# - / 5 3 6210790 1 1 n 11 I`ve ^given you the f/act# / 5 3 6310800 1 1 n 11 that only ^six m/urderers# . / 5 3 6310810 1 2 n 11 out of a ^hundred and nineteen in nineteen thirty / 5 3 6310810 1 1 n 11 were :/executed# / 5 3 6310820 1 1 n 11 if ^you want nineteen :s/ixty# - / 5 3 6310830 1 1 n 11 there were a ^hundred *and thirty-:tw\o#* / 5 3 6310840 1 1 l 11 *but ^what does this :pr\ove#* - / 5 3 6310850 1 1 w 11 ^what does this !pr\ove# / 5 3 6310860 1 1(l 11 *and if it ((^does)) . what is it ex\actly#* / 5 3 6310870 1 1 n 11 *it ^pr\/oves#* - / 5 3 6310880 1 1 n 11 it ^pr\/oves# . / 5 3 6310890 1 2 n 11 in ^view of the !great increase in our / 5 3 6310890 1 1 n 11 popul/ation# . / 5 3 6310900 1 2 n 11 the ^fact that the "!number of de:tected . / 5 3 6310900 1 1 n 11 m\urders# / 5 3 6310910 1 1 n 11 is "^r\oughly the _same in _nineteen _sixty# . / 5 3 6310920 1 1 n 11 "^\as in _nineteen _thirty# / 5 3 6310930 1 1 l 11 ^as in !nineteen *h\undred ((in_deed))#* / 5 3 6410940 1 2 n 11 *^only* :seven were executed under the "!l\imited / 5 3 6410940 1 1 n 11 pro_visions# / 5 3 6410950 1 1 n 11 of the ^H\omicide _Act# . / 5 3 6410960 1 1 n 11 in ^nineteen s\ixty# . / 5 3 6410970 1 1 n 11 a^gainst !six in nineteen :th\irty# / 5 4 1 10 1 3 II 20 (what are the team`s views on the rioters who / 5 4 1 10 1 2 II 20 stormed the platform when the Housing Minister was / 5 4 1 10 1 1 II 20 speaking on the Rent Act) / 5 4 1 20 1 1 f 11 what ^\are {the ^team`s v\iews#}# . / 5 4 1 30 1 1 f 11 ^{V/ictor} M/ishcon# / 5 4 1 40 1 1 v 11 well ^I sup!pose if !\any_one# . / 5 4 1 50 1 1 v 11 ^was [@m] !\/angry# / 5 4 1 60 1 1 v 11 a^bout [dhi] R/ent _Act# - / 5 4 1 70 1 1 v 11 ^it would 'be mys/elf# / 5 4 1 80 1 1 v 11 and it ^is !my !p\arty# - - / 5 4 1 90 1 1 v 11 we ^feel it to b=e# . / 5 4 1 100 1 1 v 11 a ^very wr/ong# / 5 4 1 110 1 1 v 11 and a ^very 'un!just !\Act# - / 5 4 1 120 1 1 v 11 and I can "^well underst/and# / 5 4 1 130 1 1 v 11 that ^p/eople# / 5 4 1 140 1 1 v 11 should ^want to pro!t\est a_bout it# - / 5 4 1 150 1 1 v 11 but I ^do "h\ope you kn/ow# / 5 4 1 160 1 1 v 11 that "^n\ever in this c/ountry# - / 5 4 1 170 1 1 v 11 do ^we de!v/elop# / 5 4 1 180 1 1 v 11 the ^sort of . "!m\ob w/ar# - / 5 4 1 190 1 1 v 11 that ^makes a !pr\otest against s/omething# / 5 4 1 200 1 1 v 11 how^ever un"j/ust# . / 5 4 1 210 1 2 v 11 de^velop into an {:\organized} r\iot {^at a / 5 4 1 210 1 1 v 11 m\eeting#}# - / 5 4 1 220 1 1 v 11 ^that is "!not in :my v/iew# . / 5 4 2 230 1 1 v 11 ^anything to "d\/o# / 5 4 2 240 1 2 v 11 with the tra^d/ition {of ^free sp/eech {that we`ve / 5 4 2 240 1 1 v 11 ^got h/ere#}#}# - / 5 4 2 250 1 1 v 11 ^may we pre!s/erve _it# . / 5 4 2 260 1 1 v 11 for ^\ever# / 5 4 2 270 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 2 280 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil B\achelor# / 5 4 2 290 1 1 d 11 ^I find my:self . in en!t\ire {a^gr\eement#}# / 5 4 2 300 1 1 d 11 with those ^p\ious# - / 5 4 2 310 1 1 d 11 [?@:] . re^m/arks# / 5 4 2 320 1 1 d 11 and ^I go !f/urther# / 5 4 2 330 1 1 d 11 and ^say that !even if ":V\ictor# / 5 4 2 340 1 1 d 11 from ^whom I :differ pro"!f\oundly# / 5 4 2 350 1 1 d 11 *^upon a* :pl=at{^f=orm#}# . / 5 4 2 360 1 1 f 11 ^hear *h/\ear#* . / 5 4 2 370 1 1(d 11 [@:] ^g\iving# . / 5 4 2 380 1 1 d 11 what I can ^only in {!\all} "!c\ourtesy {^c\all#}# / 5 4 2 390 1 1 d 11 his ^ill-con:s\idered# / 5 4 2 400 1 1 d 11 and ^ignorant o!p/inions# . / 5 4 2 410 1 1 d 11 ^I should be the "!last to thr\ow# . / 5 4 2 420 1 1 d 11 ^even a . :bucket of :s\oot over _him# . / 5 4 3 430 1 1 d 11 "^\and# . / 5 4 3 440 1 1 d 11 ^as a !wit has :s\aid# / 5 4 3 450 1 1 d 11 it was an ap"^palling :th\/ing# / 5 4 3 460 1 1 d 11 that ^this should :happen to !Mr :B=utler# . / 5 4 3 470 1 1 d 11 [@ @] to ^Mr :Br=ooke# . / 5 4 3 480 1 1 d 11 ^not even in his own const\ituency# / 5 4 3 490 1 1 v 11 oh I ^said that in !different c/ircum*stances#* / 5 4 3 500 1 1 v 11 about a ^different "m\an _Denzil# / 5 4 3 510 1 1 d 11 *((^y\es#))* / 5 4 3 520 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# . / 5 4 3 530 1 1 f 11 ^y/es# / 5 4 3 540 1 1 f 11 ^never m/ind# . / 5 4 3 550 1 1 f 11 it`s an ^\awfully good {^st\ory {^\anyway#}#}# / 5 4 3 560 1 1 f 11 (laughs) - - ^Honor B\alfour# / 5 4 3 570 1 2 h 11 well if ^I can just be a bit !more serious than / 5 4 3 570 1 1 h 11 :th\at for a m/oment# - / 5 4 3 580 1 1 h 11 I ^think one :\interesting _thing# / 5 4 3 590 1 1 h 11 a^bout this par!t\icular {^\incident#} {^w\as#}# . / 5 4 3 600 1 2 h 11 that ^these people were !not "r/\eally {in / 5 4 3 600 1 1 h 11 ^f\act#}# / 5 4 4 610 1 1 h 11 ^rioting so "!m\uch a_gainst . {^Mr :Br\ooke#}# . / 5 4 4 620 1 1 h 11 as a^gainst !each \other# - / 5 4 4 630 1 1 h 11 be^c\ause# . / 5 4 4 640 1 2 h 11 [@] ^if you !know the !facts of that par:ticular / 5 4 4 640 1 1 h 11 :situ/ation# . / 5 4 4 650 1 1 h 11 ^these r/ioters# / 5 4 4 660 1 1 h 11 ^were in !f\act# / 5 4 4 670 1 1 h 11 ^organized C/ommunists# / 5 4 4 680 1 1 h 11 and ^organized :F\ascists# - / 5 4 4 690 1 1 h 11 now ^I am 'all 'for po:litical free :sp\eech# / 5 4 4 700 1 1 h 11 ^in this !c/ountry# . / 5 4 4 710 1 1 h 11 ^let me s=ay# / 5 4 4 720 1 1 h 11 "^be it for :C=ommunists# / 5 4 4 730 1 1 h 11 ^or 'be it for F\ascists# - / 5 4 4 740 1 1 h 11 ^even s\o# - / 5 4 4 750 1 1 h 11 ^b=ut# . / 5 4 4 760 1 1 h 11 ^when they trans:gr\ess# / 5 4 4 770 1 1 h 11 the ^d/\emocratic# / 5 4 4 780 1 1 h 11 "^l\iberties {of ^this c\ountry#}# . / 5 4 4 790 1 1 h 11 "^th\en I _think# / 5 4 4 800 1 1 h 11 we "^m\ust main_tain# / 5 4 4 810 1 1 h 11 ^civil l=aw((s))# / 5 4 4 820 1 1 h 11 ^civil =order# . / 5 4 4 830 1 1 h 11 and the ^fr\/eedoms# . / 5 4 4 840 1 1 h 11 for which ^this c/ountry# / 5 4 4 850 1 1 h 11 ^fought and !suffered so h\ard# . / 5 4 4 860 1 1 h 11 and on ^this par!t\icular oc:c/asion# / 5 4 5 870 1 1 h 11 I ^wish that there had been a !great m=any# . / 5 4 5 880 1 1 h 11 [@] po^lice /actions# / 5 4 5 890 1 1 h 11 to ^keep !these people :under contr\ol# . / 5 4 5 900 1 1 h 11 be^cause I !think in !th\ese _circumstances# / 5 4 5 910 1 1 h 11 that`s the ^\only w/ay# / 5 4 5 920 1 2 h 11 in ^which we !c\an _have {^democratic :free speech / 5 4 5 920 1 1 h 11 :in this c\ountry#}# / 5 4 5 930 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 5 940 1 1 f 11 ^Colin _H/odgkinson# - - / 5 4 5 950 1 1 c 11 ^I 'am a :victim of the :Rent /Act# / 5 4 5 960 1 1 c 11 my^s\/elf# / 5 4 5 970 1 1 c 11 and ^therefore I :must have a :vested !\interest# / 5 4 5 980 1 1 c 11 in ^this !m\atter# . / 5 4 5 990 1 1 c 11 I ^neverthe:l\ess# / 5 4 5 1000 1 1 c 11 [@: . @] ^have [@:] re!v\iewed# . / 5 4 5 1010 1 1 c 11 [dhi:] . ^\action# / 5 4 5 1020 1 1 c 11 that was ^t\aken# / 5 4 5 1030 1 1 c 11 by these ^r\/ioters# / 5 4 5 1040 1 1 c 11 I ^think it is the most ap!p\alling# / 5 4 5 1050 1 1 c 11 ^th\/ing# / 5 4 5 1060 1 1 c 11 to ^take the law into one`s own :h/ands# / 5 4 6 1070 1 2 c 11 in the ^same way . as the :students :did . 'with Mr/ 5 4 6 1070 1 1 c 11 Butler at :Gl\asgow# . / 5 4 6 1080 1 1 c 11 [@] ^some people !s=ay# / 5 4 6 1090 1 2 c 12 that [@] ^there !shouldn`t be [@ dh@] that the / 5 4 6 1090 1 1 c 12 po^lice shouldn`t have po!l\ice _dogs# . / 5 4 6 1100 1 1 c 11 [@:?] . I a^gree with :that up to a :p\oint# . / 5 4 6 1110 1 1 c 11 but [@:] "^when . [dhi:] :\audience# / 5 4 6 1120 1 1 c 11 ^in !\any {^c\ountry#}# . / 5 4 6 1130 1 1 c 11 ^takes the !l\aw# / 5 4 6 1140 1 1 c 11 into their "^own h\ands# . / 5 4 6 1150 1 1 c 11 ^that is to say a :demo!cr\atic _country# . / 5 4 6 1160 1 1 c 11 [@] ^I [?] de!pl=ore it# . / 5 4 6 1170 1 1 c 11 in the ^greatest :possible :w\ay# / 5 4 6 1180 1 2 c 11 and in ^answer to the :question I can :simply / 5 4 6 1180 1 1 c 11 s=ay# . / 5 4 6 1190 1 1 c 11 ^I am a:g\ainst# . / 5 4 6 1200 1 1 c 11 ^what the !\audience# / 5 4 6 1210 1 1 c 11 ^d=id# . / 5 4 6 1220 1 1 c 11 al^though I am a :sufferer of the R\ent _Act# / 5 4 6 1230 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 7 1240 1 1 f 12 ^((all)) the team . *^y/es# . / 5 4 7 1250 1 1 f 11 ((here`s)) ^Victor M\ishcon#* / 5 4 7 1260 1 2 v 11 *^never have I :heard a more !gracious* / 5 4 7 1260 1 1 v 11 ap\/ology# . / 5 4 7 1270 1 1 v 11 by a ^member of the Con!s\ervative P/arty# - / 5 4 7 1280 1 1 v 11 ^f\or the R/ent _Act# . / 5 4 7 1290 1 1 v 11 ^and for the !people who !suffer !fr\om _it# . / 5 4 7 1300 1 1 v 11 but ^quite /obviously# / 5 4 7 1310 1 1 v 11 I ^w\ant to rep/eat _this# . / 5 4 7 1320 1 2 v 11 I`m "^dead against . :this w/ay . {^of / 5 4 7 1320 1 1 v 11 beh/aving#}# . / 5 4 7 1330 1 2 v 11 if you are ^trying to oppose a piece of / 5 4 7 1330 1 1 v 11 legisl\ation# / 5 4 7 1340 1 1 c 11 I ^wouldn`t l\ike _sir# / 5 4 7 1350 1 1 c 11 if I ^m\ay# . / 5 4 7 1360 1 1 c 11 inter^p\ose {^h\ere#}# . / 5 4 7 1370 1 2 c 11 that ^Mr ![mish@n] to :have the last :w\ord {on / 5 4 7 1370 1 1 c 11 ^this \issue#}# / 5 4 7 1380 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 7 1390 1 1 c 11 [@: . @] *in^d\eed# / 5 4 7 1400 2 1 c 21 [@:] if* ^I may !crave your / 5 4 8 1410 1 1 f 11 *^w/ell# . / 5 4 8 1420 1 1 f 20 ((sylls))* / 5 4 8 1400 1 1(c 11 in:d\ulgence# / 5 4 8 1430 1 1 c 11 I ^don`t intend to l\et _him# . / 5 4 8 1440 1 2 c 11 [@:] . ^I am en"!t\irely {in a^gr\eement#} / 5 4 8 1440 1 1 c 11 {^b\asically#}# . / 5 4 8 1450 1 1 c 11 with the ^Rent Act as it :st/ands# / 5 4 8 1460 1 1 c 11 and in^deed Mr . [mish@n] you know ":very w/ell# / 5 4 8 1470 1 2 c 11 that your ^Party would have :had to have :d=one / 5 4 8 1470 1 1 c 11 {^s=omething#}# . / 5 4 8 1480 1 1 c 11 [@:] ^if it had come back to p\ower# / 5 4 8 1490 1 1 c 11 ^I say if . [@] :qu\/alifiedly# / 5 4 8 1500 1 2 c 11 be^cause !your Party . [s] :seems to think that / 5 4 8 1500 1 1 c 11 they will this next !t\ime# . / 5 4 8 1510 1 1 c 11 but ^you would "!h\ave to do s/omething# . / 5 4 8 1520 1 1 c 12 "^quite . ^quite d\efinitely# / 5 4 8 1530 1 1 c 11 ^on this /issue# . / 5 4 8 1540 1 1 c 11 and you would "^n\ot# - / 5 4 8 1550 1 1 c 11 [@:] be ^\able _to# / 5 4 8 1560 1 1 c 11 in ^m\y op/inion# / 5 4 8 1570 1 1 c 11 to ^national=ize# / 5 4 8 1580 1 1 c 11 ^six million h\ouses# / 5 4 8 1590 1 1 c 11 as your ^Party in!tends to :d\/o# . / 5 4 8 1600 1 1 c 11 ^says it`s going to :d/o# . / 5 4 8 1610 1 2 c 12 and ^find !two million . five . ^two thousand five / 5 4 8 1610 1 1 c 12 hundred million pounds to d\o so# - / 5 4 9 1620 1 1 c 11 I ^think that it is !quite . quite c/ertain# . / 5 4 9 1630 1 1 c 11 that . [@:] the ^Rent Act is the !right th=ing# . / 5 4 9 1640 1 3 c 11 it`s a ^question of !whether it has [@] been / 5 4 9 1640 1 2 c 11 applied the :right way or not is a matter of / 5 4 9 1640 1 1 c 11 [k@ndzh\estsh@]# / 5 4 9 1650 1 1 f 11 ^[mh/m]# *.* / 5 4 9 1660 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil B/achelor# / 5 4 9 1670 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 9 1680 1 2 d 13 *^this* - - [@] . *^I`m quite . ^I`m quite / 5 4 9 1680 1 1 d 13 !st\aggered#* / 5 4 9 1690 1 1 f 11 *we`re ^getting a bit off the !qu\estion you kn/ow#/ 5 4 9 1700 1 1 f 11 but ^never m/ind#* / 5 4 9 1710 1 1(d 11 ^I thought this was a de:b=ate# / 5 4 9 1720 1 1 d 11 as to ^whether people should {:thr/ow} th/ings# / 5 4 9 1730 1 1 d 12 ^at [@ . ?@] (laughs) ^at !Mr "!Br\ooke# / 5 4 10 1740 1 1 d 11 in^stead of wh/ich# / 5 4 10 1750 1 1 d 11 it`s a de^b/ate {ap^p/arently#}# / 5 4 10 1760 1 1 d 11 of the ^rights and wrongs of the "!!R\ent _Act# - / 5 4 10 1770 1 1 d 11 it`s got ^absolutely n/othing to !d\o with _it# - / 5 4 10 1780 1 1 d 11 now ^what I`m "f\/ascinated# / 5 4 10 1790 1 1 d 11 is to ^know that !C/\ommunists# / 5 4 10 1800 1 1 d 11 (coughs) and ^F\ascists# / 5 4 10 1810 1 1 d 11 are ^such bad sh\ots# . / 5 4 10 1820 1 1 d 11 that ^wh/\en they _have# . / 5 4 10 1830 1 1 d 11 a ^battle be:tween them!s\/elves# . / 5 4 10 1840 1 1 d 11 "^\all their m/issiles# / 5 4 10 1850 1 1 d 11 ^hit the un"!f/ortunate {^Mr Br/ooke#}# / 5 4 10 1860 1 1 d 11 who as I ^underst/and# / 5 4 10 1870 1 1 d 11 is ^n\either# / 5 4 10 1880 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 10 1890 1 1 f 11 ^yes Honor B=alfour# / 5 4 10 1900 1 1 h 11 ^may I just :s\ay# / 5 4 10 1910 1 3 h 11 that I ^happened to be :talking with Mr Brooke the / 5 4 10 1910 1 2 h 11 :following evening and he !did assure me he was / 5 4 10 1910 1 1 h 11 {!n\ot} !h\it# / 5 4 11 1920 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 4 11 1930 1 1 f 11 *^\oh#* - - / 5 4 11 1940 1 1 f 11 oh ^all r/ight# - / 5 4 11 1950 1 1 f 11 ^well !now !we "\are# / 5 4 11 1960 1 1 f 11 be^ginning to di":verge from this :qu/estion# / 5 4 11 1970 1 1 f 11 ((so)) I ^think ((it`s)) :better we`d st/op it# - / 5 4 11 1980 1 1 f 11 [@:] ^we "\are a_greed# / 5 4 11 1990 1 1 f 11 en^t\irely# / 5 4 11 2000 1 1 f 11 the ^wh\ole {^t\eam`s a_greed#}# / 5 4 11 2010 1 1 f 11 a^bout the the sort of !\ethics of _this# / 5 4 11 2020 1 1 f 11 it ^is a !sh\ocking _thing {to ^h\appen#}# . / 5 4 11 2030 1 1 f 21 and we ^go on to the :next question from (name) / 5 4 11 2040 1 4 II 20 (in view of the demand for stringent economy by the/ 5 4 11 2040 1 3 II 20 Government does the panel consider the time / 5 4 11 2040 1 2 II 20 opportune for the expenditure of time and money in / 5 4 11 2040 1 1 II 20 putting Stonehenge upright) / 5 4 11 2050 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 11 2060 1 1 f 11 I ^think upright is a de:l\ightful ex_pression# . / 5 4 12 2070 1 1 f 11 [@m] - ^Colin H/odgkinson# / 5 4 12 2080 1 1 f 11 ^what do you feel about th\at# / 5 4 12 2090 1 1 c 11 (laughs) I ^must con:f=ess# / 5 4 12 2100 1 1 c 11 that I`m ^baffled by the :qu=estion# / 5 4 12 2110 1 2 c 11 because ((2 sylls)) ^I !didn`t even know the / 5 4 12 2110 1 1 c 11 Government "!w\as _going to _put it _upright# / 5 4 12 2120 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 12 2130 1 1 c 11 - [@:] in^d\eed# / 5 4 12 2140 1 1 c 11 I ^didn`t even know that it was :cr\ooked# / 5 4 12 2150 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) - - / 5 4 12 2160 1 1 f 11 ^w\ell# / 5 4 12 2170 1 1 f 11 it`s a ^bit 'part :w\orn# - / 5 4 12 2180 1 1 c 11 it`s sym^m\etrical# / 5 4 12 2190 1 1 c 11 that`s as *^far as* I :kn\ow# - / 5 4 12 2200 1 1 f 11 *^y\es#* - / 5 4 12 2210 1 1 f 11 ^Honor B\alfour# - / 5 4 12 2220 1 1 f 11 *^oh I`m s\orry#* / 5 4 12 2230 1 1(c 12 [@:] . *I ^want -* - ^I`m !s\orry# . / 5 4 12 2240 1 1 c 11 ^\all I was _going to {^s\ay _was#}# . / 5 4 12 2250 1 2 c 11 I ^don`t know :how much [dhi: @: ?] the !cost is / 5 4 12 2250 1 1 c 11 in!v/olved# / 5 4 13 2260 1 1 c 11 in ^putting the thing :/upright# - / 5 4 13 2270 1 1 c 12 or . what^ever what^ever the :question !w/as# / 5 4 13 2280 1 1 c 11 ^/upright# . / 5 4 13 2290 1 1 c 11 [@:] . ^if it does :not cost too much m/oney# / 5 4 13 2300 1 1 c 11 ^I think the !G\overnment# / 5 4 13 2310 1 1 c 11 is en^t\irely en:titled to !d/o so# . / 5 4 13 2320 1 1 c 11 be^cause I !underst=and# / 5 4 13 2330 1 2 c 11 that a ^great many A:merican dollars :flow in to / 5 4 13 2330 1 1 c 11 the coffers of Stonehenge whoever :\owns it# / 5 4 13 2340 1 1 ? 11 ^[/m]# / 5 4 13 2350 1 2 f 11 well I ^understand it`s about :eight thousand / 5 4 13 2350 1 1 f 11 p\ounds# / 5 4 13 2360 1 1 c 11 ^[\m]# / 5 4 13 2370 1 1 f 11 ^[je:] . D\enzil *{^B\achelor#}#* / 5 4 13 2380 1 1 d 11 *^eight* thousand five h\undred# / 5 4 13 2390 1 1 d 11 an "^\absolute {"^fl\ea _bite#}# - / 5 4 14 2400 1 1 d 11 "^usual th/ing# - / 5 4 14 2410 1 2 d 11 you`ve ^got a . "!thoroughly fine national property/ 5 4 14 2410 1 1 d 11 on your :h/ands# / 5 4 14 2420 1 1 d 11 and you "^spend "!f\ar too _little {^\on it#}# . / 5 4 14 2430 1 2 d 11 they`re ^trying to 'put it 'as it 'was I . I / 5 4 14 2430 1 1 d 11 believe in the eighteenth c\entury# / 5 4 14 2440 1 2 d 11 ^what`s the _eighteenth !!c\entury {^got to do with/ 5 4 14 2440 1 1 d 11 Stoneh\enge#}# - / 5 4 14 2450 1 2 d 11 ^put it 'as it 'was in the !eighteenth century / 5 4 14 2450 1 1 d 11 {"\B}"!\C# - / 5 4 14 2460 1 1 d 11 ^spend !eight and a half ":m\illion _on it# - / 5 4 14 2470 1 2 d 11 and ^charge !eight 'dollars !fifty 'cents to / 5 4 14 2470 1 1 d 11 !!\every American c/oming# / 5 4 14 2480 1 1 d 11 with a "^huge 'neon s\ign# *-* / 5 4 14 2490 1 1 d 11 ^Stoneh\enge# / 5 4 14 2500 1 1 aud 20 (laughter and applause) / 5 4 15 2510 1 1 f 11 *^\oh {^n\o#}#* - - / 5 4 15 2520 1 1 f 11 ^oh ((D\enzil))# - - - / 5 4 15 2530 1 1 f 11 ^Victor _M/ishcon# / 5 4 15 2540 1 1 v 11 ^what r/eal {ob^sc/enities#}# / 5 4 15 2550 1 1 v 11 ^Denzil Bachelor th\inks of# / 5 4 15 2560 1 1 v 11 it`s ^quite re"m\arkable# - / 5 4 15 2570 1 1 v 11 but you ^kn=ow# . / 5 4 15 2580 1 1 v 11 ^one thing I :do want to s/ay# / 5 4 15 2590 1 1 v 11 in ^sheer s\ympathy# - / 5 4 15 2600 1 1 v 11 ^when you think . of a g/overnment# - / 5 4 15 2610 1 1 v 11 ^where !after /all# . / 5 4 15 2620 1 1 v 11 the ^whole of a . :finance {t/eam} f/alls# - / 5 4 15 2630 1 2 v 11 a ^Chancellor of the Exchequer and his :two / 5 4 15 2630 1 1 v 11 ass/istants# - / 5 4 15 2640 1 2 v 11 when it ^looks as though . a :Foreign Secretary is / 5 4 15 2640 1 1 v 11 about to t/opple# - / 5 4 15 2650 1 2 v 11 when you ^think in 'terms of :by-elections . being / 5 4 15 2650 1 1 v 11 lost so m/iserably# - / 5 4 15 2660 1 1 v 11 ^isn`t there "something "r/eally# / 5 4 15 2670 1 1 v 11 that ^ought to be =upright# / 5 4 16 2680 1 1 v 11 that they can . ^really _l=ook at# - - - / 5 4 16 2690 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 16 2700 1 1 v 11 and if ^that be s=o# / 5 4 16 2710 1 2 v 11 and it ^merely cost them eight thousand five / 5 4 16 2710 1 1 v 11 hundred p/ounds# / 5 4 16 2720 1 1 v 11 to ^look at something that`s :really "st\atic# - / 5 4 16 2730 1 1 v 11 ^I don`t think we ought to gr\udge it _to them# - -/ 5 4 16 2740 1 1 f 11 it`s ^rather on the l\ines _isn`t it _Victor# / 5 4 16 2750 1 1 f 11 [dhi:] . the ^g\eneral# / 5 4 16 2760 1 1 f 11 who ^said my !flanks are :t=urned# / 5 4 16 2770 1 1 f 11 my ^centre is br=oken# / 5 4 16 2780 1 1 f 11 ^I shall att\ack# - / 5 4 16 2790 1 2 v 11 if "^I could have thought of that quotation 'I / 5 4 16 2790 1 1 v 11 would have \used it# / 5 4 16 2800 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 16 2810 1 1 f 11 ^Honor B\alfour# - / 5 4 16 2820 1 1 h 11 ^only !one !c=omment# / 5 4 16 2830 1 2 h 11 I`m ^very glad to know that it`s not !only the / 5 4 16 2830 1 1 h 11 !m\issiles# / 5 4 16 2840 1 1 h 11 and the ^\H bombs# / 5 4 16 2850 1 2 h 11 that are ^going to be set upright by this / 5 4 16 2850 1 1 h 11 g=overnment# / 5 4 17 2860 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 17 2870 1 1 f 11 ^anybody !/else# - / 5 4 17 2880 1 1 f 11 ^n/o# . / 5 4 17 2890 1 1 f 11 ^no m/ore# - / 5 4 17 2900 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# / 5 4 17 2910 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil Bachelor :wants to go the whole h\og# / 5 4 17 2920 1 1 f 11 and ^put the !whole thing "!right up as it w/as# / 5 4 17 2930 1 1 f 11 as it ^used to b/e# / 5 4 17 2940 1 1 f 11 if we "^kn\ow _what it _used to _be# - / 5 4 17 2950 1 1 f 11 [@:] . we ^go on to the next question fr=om# / 5 4 17 2960 1 1 f 20 (name) / 5 4 17 2970 1 4 II 20 (Mr Emmanuel Shinwell thinks that defence should be/ 5 4 17 2970 1 3 II 20 outside party politics does the team think that the/ 5 4 17 2970 1 2 II 20 present position of the country demands a coalition/ 5 4 17 2970 1 1 II 20 government) / 5 4 17 2980 1 1 f 11 ^Honor !B/alfour# - / 5 4 17 2990 1 1 h 11 ^n\o {^n\o#}# / 5 4 17 3000 1 1 h 11 a "^thousand times :n\o# - / 5 4 17 3010 1 2 h 11 I ^think actually that . [dhi:] :lady who`s !asked / 5 4 17 3010 1 1 h 11 this :qu\estion# . / 5 4 18 3020 1 2 h 11 per^haps hasn`t read . Mr :Shinwell`s !speech / 5 4 18 3020 1 1 h 11 com!pl\/etely# / 5 4 18 3030 1 1 h 11 or in . [@ i] in ^absolute !d\/etail# . / 5 4 18 3040 1 1 h 11 because he ^did make it absolutely !cl\ear# / 5 4 18 3050 1 1 h 11 that in ^putting forward this pro:p\/osal# . / 5 4 18 3060 1 1 h 11 ^for . a !standing com:m\/ittee# / 5 4 18 3070 1 1 h 11 [@:] con^sisting of :members of :all !p\/arties# . / 5 4 18 3080 1 1 h 11 to con^s\ider# / 5 4 18 3090 1 1 h 11 de^fence matters !r\/egularly# . / 5 4 18 3100 1 1 h 11 and to dis^cuss [dhi:] . :main !l\ines# / 5 4 18 3110 1 1 h 11 of ^{str\ategy} and !t\actics# . / 5 4 18 3120 1 1 h 11 [@:] in ^putting :f\orward this pro:p/osal# / 5 4 18 3130 1 1 h 11 he ^made it !very cl\/ear# / 5 4 18 3140 1 1 h 11 that ^he did !not n\ecessarily# / 5 4 18 3150 1 1 h 11 ^m\/ean# . / 5 4 18 3160 1 1 h 11 or in ^fact !didn`t mean at !\all# / 5 4 18 3170 1 2 h 11 that ^there should be !anything approaching a / 5 4 18 3170 1 1 h 11 coa!l\ition# - / 5 4 18 3180 1 1 h 11 ^what he was !\asking for# / 5 4 19 3190 1 1 h 11 ^w\/as# . / 5 4 19 3200 1 1 h 11 that [dhi:] ^Oppo!s\ition# . / 5 4 19 3210 1 1 h 11 that Her "^M\ajesty`s Oppo_sition# . / 5 4 19 3220 1 1 h 11 which ^has a !very im!portant part to :pl\ay# / 5 4 19 3230 1 1 h 11 in our ^whole consti!t\utional {^str\ucture#}# . / 5 4 19 3240 1 1 h 11 that Her ^Majesty`s Oppos\/ition# / 5 4 19 3250 1 1 h 11 ^should be :kept in!f\/ormed# / 5 4 19 3260 1 1 h 11 "^by Her :Majesty`s !G\/overnment# . / 5 4 19 3270 1 1 h 11 ^of the !main and most !cr\ucial# . / 5 4 19 3280 1 1 h 11 de^v\/elopments# / 5 4 19 3290 1 1 h 11 ^in de!f\ence# - / 5 4 19 3300 1 2 h 11 and I ^think Mr Shinwell had a :very im!p\ortant / 5 4 19 3300 1 1 h 11 contri_bution {to ^m\ake#}# . / 5 4 19 3310 1 1 h 11 ^when he !s\aid that# . / 5 4 19 3320 1 1 h 11 ^I !p\ersonally :h/ope# . / 5 4 19 3330 1 2 h 11 that ^something m/ay come !\out . {of this / 5 4 19 3330 1 1 h 11 ^recommend\ation#}# . / 5 4 19 3340 1 2 h 11 the ^Prime Minister didn`t !happen to be in the / 5 4 19 3340 1 1 h 11 :H/ouse# / 5 4 19 3350 1 1 h 11 when he ^made this !sp\eech# . / 5 4 19 3360 1 1 h 11 but he ^did "!\add# / 5 4 20 3370 1 1 h 11 with ^due hu!m\ility# . / 5 4 20 3380 1 1 h 11 ^as he`s !now a !b\ack_bencher# . / 5 4 20 3390 1 2 h 11 ^that he 'hoped that :this would be :brought to the/ 5 4 20 3390 1 1 h 11 :Prime Minister`s !n\/otice# . / 5 4 20 3400 1 2 h 11 ^and that !something 'might per'haps be !d\one / 5 4 20 3400 1 1 h 11 a_bout it# . / 5 4 20 3410 1 1 h 11 but I ^do sin!c\erely {^h\ope#}# / 5 4 20 3420 1 2 h 11 that ^this country does "!n\ot {have a / 5 4 20 3420 1 1 h 11 coa^l\ition#}# / 5 4 20 3430 1 1 h 11 there ^is a "!deep div\ision# . / 5 4 20 3440 1 1 h 11 ^both on !econ!=omic# / 5 4 20 3450 1 1 h 11 ^and on !s=ocial {af^f=airs#}# . / 5 4 20 3460 1 1 h 11 ^and 'I th=ink# . / 5 4 20 3470 1 1 h 11 on ^f\oreign aff/airs# . / 5 4 20 3480 1 1 h 11 and "^also on defence m=atters# / 5 4 20 3490 1 1 h 11 al^though Mr !Sh\inwell# / 5 4 20 3500 1 2 h 11 was ^asking for !defence to be taken 'out of / 5 4 20 3500 1 1 h 11 p\olitics# . / 5 4 20 3510 1 1 h 11 I ^think there is !st\ill# . / 5 4 20 3520 1 1 h 11 [@] ^there are {!st\ill} "!two s\ides# / 5 4 20 3530 1 1 h 11 on de^fence matters in !th=is _country# / 5 4 20 3540 1 1 h 11 ^and in the !w\orld# . / 5 4 21 3550 1 2 h 11 I`m ^all for those :two sides :getting / 5 4 21 3550 1 1 h 11 to!g\ether# . / 5 4 21 3560 1 1 h 11 and ^having in!f\ormed# / 5 4 21 3570 1 1 h 11 dis^c\/ussion# / 5 4 21 3580 1 1 h 11 which I ^think is what Mr :Shinwell :w\anted# . / 5 4 21 3590 1 1 h 11 but I ^think it`s !quite imp=ossible# / 5 4 21 3600 1 2 h 11 to have "^any form of coa:l\ition on the / 5 4 21 3600 1 1 h 11 _subject# - / 5 4 21 3610 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 21 3620 1 1 f 11 ^Victor !M/ishcon# - - / 5 4 21 3630 1 1 v 11 ^Honor Balfour was quite r/ight# / 5 4 21 3640 1 1 v 11 in her ^summary of what Emmanuel Shinwell s\aid# - / 5 4 21 3650 1 1 v 11 was ^l\argely you kn/ow# / 5 4 21 3660 1 1 v 11 be^cause . [@m] - Em!manuel Shinwell th\ought# / 5 4 21 3670 1 2 v 11 and he ^is after all a !pr\evious Defence / 5 4 21 3670 1 1 v 11 M/inister# . / 5 4 21 3680 1 1 v 11 that you ^can`t have in:formed o:p\inion# . / 5 4 21 3690 1 1 v 11 ^on this !v\ital m/atter# . / 5 4 21 3700 1 1 v 11 with^out being kept !v\ery much up to d/ate# . / 5 4 22 3710 1 1 v 11 with the ^l/atest f\acts {of de^f\ence#}# - / 5 4 22 3720 1 1 v 11 now ^what "\is wr/ong# / 5 4 22 3730 1 1 v 11 with a ^coalition g\overnment# - / 5 4 22 3740 1 1 v 11 of ^course you "!n\eed a coalition g/overnment# / 5 4 22 3750 1 1 v 11 in ^time of cr/isis# - / 5 4 22 3760 1 2 v 11 but the ^dreadful "p\art of a coalition government / 5 4 22 3760 1 1 v 11 you :kn/ow# . / 5 4 22 3770 1 1 v 11 is that to ^{k/eep it} a"l/ive# . / 5 4 22 3780 1 1 v 11 you ^have to go in for !one c/ompromise# / 5 4 22 3790 1 1 v 11 ^after an\other# - / 5 4 22 3800 1 1 v 11 you ^have you see _people :sitting r/ound# / 5 4 22 3810 1 1 v 11 the ^c/abinet _room# . / 5 4 22 3820 1 1 v 11 with ^different v/iews# . / 5 4 22 3830 1 1 v 11 and un^less there can be a :shifting of op/inion# ./ 5 4 22 3840 1 1 v 11 to^wards !some !f\orm of c/ompromise# / 5 4 22 3850 1 1 v 11 be^tween those :different !v/iews# . / 5 4 22 3860 1 1 v 11 the ^coalition government f/alls# . / 5 4 22 3870 1 1 v 11 and ^we become . another Fr\ance# - / 5 4 22 3880 1 1 v 11 now ^I !d\o bel/ieve# / 5 4 22 3890 1 1 v 11 that the ^whole qu\estion {of de^f\ence#}# - / 5 4 22 3900 1 2 v 11 the ^whole question of a :stand upon summit / 5 4 22 3900 1 1 v 11 t\alks# . / 5 4 22 3910 1 2 v 11 the ^whole reaction as to to :whether Britain ought/ 5 4 22 3910 1 1 v 11 to :take a :l\ead# / 5 4 23 3920 1 1 v 11 in this ^question of the \H bomb# - / 5 4 23 3930 1 2 v 11 (coughs) as to ^whether we ought to - :have that / 5 4 23 3930 1 1 v 11 "!m\oral# . / 5 4 23 3940 1 1 v 11 ^l/eadership# / 5 4 23 3950 1 1 v 11 and give that ^moral ex/ample# . / 5 4 23 3960 1 1 v 12 ^by !saying "!n\ot . we ^unilaterally . :dis\arm# -/ 5 4 23 3970 1 1 v 11 ^that I`ve "n/ever _said# . / 5 4 23 3980 1 1 v 11 and ^that many members of my :own P/arty# . / 5 4 23 3990 1 1 v 11 "^m\ost members of my :own !P/arty# / 5 4 23 4000 1 1 v 11 ^have !never bel\ieved in# - / 5 4 23 4010 1 2 v 11 ^what we "!d\o say at this m/oment {as the / 5 4 23 4010 1 1 v 11 ^Oppo!s/ition#}# / 5 4 23 4020 1 1 v 11 ^is _th\is# . / 5 4 23 4030 1 1 v 11 for ^h/\eaven`s _sake# / 5 4 23 4040 1 1 v 11 ^give a l\ead# - / 5 4 23 4050 1 1 v 11 and . "^tr/y and {^br/eak {d/own#}#}# . / 5 4 23 4060 1 1 v 11 this ^dreadful sui:cidal w/all# / 5 4 23 4070 1 1 v 11 where ^no one will :yield an \inch# - / 5 4 23 4080 1 1 v 11 ^say that you 'do :not in fact int\end# / 5 4 23 4090 1 1 v 11 ^over the !next !six m\onths . if you :l/ike# . / 5 4 24 4100 1 1 v 11 to ^have any more t\ests# - / 5 4 24 4110 1 1 v 11 ^say . "s\omething# / 5 4 24 4120 1 1 v 11 that can ^start the dis:armament talks g\oing# . / 5 4 24 4130 1 1 v 11 now ^if you "f\irmly believe in th/at# . / 5 4 24 4140 1 1 v 11 "^don`t go in for a coal\ition# . / 5 4 24 4150 1 1 v 11 be^c\ause as I`ve :s/aid# . / 5 4 24 4160 1 2 v 11 ^that`s a !very . "!v\ital contribution I / 5 4 24 4160 1 1 v 11 be:l/ieve# . / 5 4 24 4170 1 1 v 11 to^wards the !peace of the :w/orld# / 5 4 24 4180 1 1 v 11 and to^wards our !own de!fence p\olicy# . / 5 4 24 4190 1 1 v 11 and "^don`t go in for s\/omething# . / 5 4 24 4200 1 1 v 11 which ^might mean a c\ompromise# . / 5 4 24 4210 1 1 v 11 but "^do by "!\all _means {^s\ee#}# . / 5 4 24 4220 1 1 v 11 that the ^Opposition is kept !pr\operly inf/ormed# / 5 4 24 4230 1 1 v 11 as they ^sh\/ould _be# . / 5 4 24 4240 1 1 v 11 of de^fence measures for the c\ountry# - - / 5 4 24 4250 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 25 4260 1 1 f 11 ^Colin H/odgkinson# / 5 4 25 4270 1 1 c 11 ^well of !c=ourse# / 5 4 25 4280 1 1 c 11 ^Victor :[mish@n] . has got a view to !p/ut# - / 5 4 25 4290 1 2 c 11 [@] be^cause [@] in :this par!ticular re:spect he`s/ 5 4 25 4290 1 1 c 11 :batting on a bad w\icket# - / 5 4 25 4300 1 1 c 11 [@] his ^own p/arty# / 5 4 25 4310 1 1 c 11 a^g/ain# . / 5 4 25 4320 1 1 c 11 is ^r\ift# - - / 5 4 25 4330 1 1 c 11 they ^\are# - / 5 4 25 4340 1 1 c 11 at ^variance with one an/other# . / 5 4 25 4350 1 1 c 11 ^Mr !Sh/inwell# . / 5 4 25 4360 1 1 c 11 ^Mr Br/own# . / 5 4 25 4370 1 2 c 11 who ^I - was . ap:peared on a :television programme/ 5 4 25 4370 1 1 c 11 with the other d/ay# - / 5 4 25 4380 1 1 c 11 ^after it was all /over# / 5 4 25 4390 1 1 c 11 he ^turned round to m/e# / 5 4 25 4400 1 1 c 11 and we were dis^cussing the /H _bomb# / 5 4 25 4410 1 2 c 11 he((`d)) ^said - well you know it`s :all very / 5 4 25 4410 1 1 c 11 :w\/ell# / 5 4 25 4420 1 1 c 11 but [@m] - ^\I get /up# / 5 4 25 4430 1 2 c 11 and ^talk about ((it)) in the House of Commons / 5 4 25 4430 1 1 c 11 about the :H bomb and de!f=ence# . / 5 4 25 4440 1 2 c 11 ^and [@] but of :course he said I only talk for / 5 4 25 4440 1 1 c 11 half the :p\arty# - / 5 4 26 4450 1 1 c 11 and [@: ?] ^h\ow . {the ^S\ocialists#}# - / 5 4 26 4460 1 1 c 11 can ^th\ink# . / 5 4 26 4470 1 1 c 11 ^p\ossibly# / 5 4 26 4480 1 2 c 12 that ^they`re [g@n] or the ^Labour Party as they / 5 4 26 4480 1 1 c 12 like to :c\all {them^s\elves#}# . / 5 4 26 4490 1 1 c 11 can ^h\ave# / 5 4 26 4500 1 1 c 11 [@:] . a ^coalition with the "!T\ories# / 5 4 26 4510 1 1 c 11 when they ^can`t even af:f\ord# / 5 4 26 4520 1 1 c 11 [@] or or or ^\implement# / 5 4 26 4530 1 1 c 11 a ^proper coalition amongst them"!s\/elves# . / 5 4 26 4540 1 2 c 11 [?@ @ @] ^I am [@?] !quite unable to / 5 4 26 4540 1 1 c 11 under:st\and# . / 5 4 26 4550 1 1 c 11 I ^say this in :spite of the :f\act# / 5 4 26 4560 1 1 c 11 [@:] that ^I am !p\/ersonally# . / 5 4 26 4570 1 1 c 11 a ^fan of Mr Sh\inwell# . / 5 4 26 4580 1 2 c 11 [@m] ^quite 'why he`s not in the Con:servative / 5 4 26 4580 1 1 c 11 :Party 'I don`t !kn\ow# / 5 4 26 4590 1 1 c 11 be^cause his !views are :very much at !v\ariance# / 5 4 26 4600 1 1 c 11 with ^most of the Labour !l\eaders# . / 5 4 27 4610 1 1 c 11 or ^not the !l\eaders# / 5 4 27 4620 1 2 c 11 but [@] . the "^g\inger _group {as ^they`re / 5 4 27 4620 1 1 c 11 c\alled#}# . / 5 4 27 4630 1 1 c 11 [@:] - "^n\o# . / 5 4 27 4640 1 1 c 11 ^I do !not agree ":\also# . / 5 4 27 4650 1 1 c 11 ^with [@:] . Miss !B=alfour# / 5 4 27 4660 1 1 c 11 with ^Honor !B/alfour# . / 5 4 27 4670 1 1 c 11 [@:] ^there is "!b\/asically# . / 5 4 27 4680 1 2 c 11 be^tween . [dhi:] . !right wing of the :L\abour / 5 4 27 4680 1 1 c 11 P/arty# / 5 4 27 4690 1 1 c 12 ^which is in - ^which is the of!ficial :w/ing# / 5 4 27 4700 1 1 c 11 and the Con^s\ervative :P/arty# / 5 4 27 4710 1 2 c 12 ^there is . [@:] ^they are !not at :variance with / 5 4 27 4710 1 1 c 12 one another ex:cept on . on :nationaliz!=ation# . / 5 4 27 4720 1 1 c 11 and ^on f\inance# . / 5 4 27 4730 1 1 c 11 I ^do not th\ink# / 5 4 27 4740 1 1 c 11 [@: @:] how^\/ever# / 5 4 27 4750 1 1 c 11 that ^they could !k\/eep# . / 5 4 27 4760 1 2 c 11 the ^Labour Party could !keep their :other wing / 5 4 27 4760 1 1 c 11 under con:tr/ol# / 5 4 27 4770 1 1 c 11 ^I think it "!qu\ite {im^p\ossible#}# . / 5 4 27 4780 1 1 c 11 that ^there would :be . !any . "l/\ikelihood# . / 5 4 28 4790 1 1 c 11 of [dhi:] . "^c\ountry# . / 5 4 28 4800 1 1 c 11 [@:] "^g\aining# . / 5 4 28 4810 1 1 c 11 ^out of there :b\eing# / 5 4 28 4820 1 1 c 11 [?@:] a ^coa:l\ition# . / 5 4 28 4830 1 1 c 11 ^c\ertainly# . / 5 4 28 4840 1 1 c 11 in [@m] . with^in the :next - year or two y\ears# / 5 4 28 4850 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil _B/achelor# - / 5 4 28 4860 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 28 4870 1 1 d 11 ^these !/\answers# / 5 4 28 4880 1 1 d 11 have been . ^very re!v\ealing# / 5 4 28 4890 1 1 d 11 and [i?@?] ^\interesting _to# . / 5 4 28 4900 1 2 d 11 "^one who . ":really has :made !no "!!st\udy of / 5 4 28 4900 1 1 d 11 _politics# / 5 4 28 4910 1 1 d 11 it`s "^f\ascinating {to ^m\e#}# - / 5 4 28 4920 1 1 d 11 I was ^thinking of :standing my!!s/elf# . / 5 4 28 4930 1 2 d 11 ^as a !candidate . [@:] :representing . "!National / 5 4 28 4930 1 1 d 11 . Conservative . !Liberal . !L\abour# / 5 4 28 4940 1 1 d 11 (laughs) - - [a@@] ^r/eally# / 5 4 28 4950 1 1 d 11 a ^coal/ition# / 5 4 28 4960 1 1 d 11 ^g/overnment# / 5 4 28 4970 1 1 d 11 ^in "!\one# . / 5 4 28 4980 1 1 d 11 I ob"^served that we :c/annot# / 5 4 29 4990 1 1 d 11 "^h\ave a coalition g/overnment# / 5 4 29 5000 1 1 d 11 be^cause . they are "!no use at ":\/all# . / 5 4 29 5010 1 1 d 11 un^less you are in "!d\esperate [st/eits]# - / 5 4 29 5020 1 1 d 11 ^str/aits# / 5 4 29 5030 1 1 d 11 and ^then they are the "!\only th/ing# . / 5 4 29 5040 1 1 d 11 "^two wars have pr/oved it# . / 5 4 29 5050 1 1 d 11 that can ^p/ossibly !!s\ave you# - / 5 4 29 5060 1 1 d 11 ^what an !awful th\ing# / 5 4 29 5070 1 2 d 11 if we ^thought of e:lecting a g/overnment which / 5 4 29 5070 1 1 d 11 could !!s\ave us# - / 5 4 29 5080 1 1 d 11 ^in the present situ\ation# / 5 4 29 5090 1 1 d 11 "^let`s not do 'that what\ever _happens# - / 5 4 29 5100 1 1 d 12 ^I`ll ![inst] . "^also a:g\/ainst them# / 5 4 29 5110 1 1 d 11 there`s ^this . "m/\ost un_fortunate _thing# / 5 4 29 5120 1 1 d 11 that ^once you`ve g/\ot# / 5 4 29 5130 1 1 d 11 [@ @ @] ^such a g/overnment# - / 5 4 29 5140 1 1 d 11 it - it ^doesn`t a'gree on 'every 'single p\oint# ./ 5 4 30 5150 1 1 d 11 now ^that`s dr/\eadful# . / 5 4 30 5160 1 1 d 11 ^some of them are all/owed# / 5 4 30 5170 1 1 d 11 to ^th/ink for them{^s/elves#}# . / 5 4 30 5180 1 1 d 11 ^/argue {for them^s/elves#}# . / 5 4 30 5190 1 1 d 11 and "^work out a so!!l\ution for them_selves# . / 5 4 30 5200 1 1 d 11 I ^can`t im"agine anything ":w/orse# / 5 4 30 5210 1 1 d 11 can "^y\ou# . / 5 4 30 5220 1 1 d 11 ^what`s w/anted# . / 5 4 30 5230 1 1 d 11 is a ^thoroughly united p/arty# / 5 4 30 5240 1 1 d 11 ^like the "!L\abour _Party# . / 5 4 30 5250 1 2 d 11 ex^cept that we`ve :just learnt that there`s an / 5 4 30 5250 1 1 d 11 un:fortunate split !th\ere# / 5 4 30 5260 1 2 d 11 (laughs) ((from)) . [@: @h@ @] we are ^t/old / 5 4 30 5260 1 1 d 11 {^th/is#}# / 5 4 30 5270 1 1 d 11 ^by a Con!s/ervative# / 5 4 30 5280 1 1 d 11 who ^{w/ell} kn/ows# / 5 4 30 5290 1 1 d 11 that the ^state of !/amity# / 5 4 30 5300 1 2 d 11 be^tween say . {/Mr {Macm/illan}} and Mr / 5 4 30 5300 1 1 d 11 "!Th/orney_croft# . / 5 4 30 5310 1 1 d 11 ^is . perhaps !hardly ex:c=eeded# / 5 4 30 5320 1 1 d 11 [@: ?] than ^by . the !state of \amity# . / 5 4 31 5330 1 1 d 11 be^tween . the !rest of the Con:servative :P/arty# / 5 4 31 5340 1 1 d 11 ^and Mr "!Ll\oyd# . / 5 4 31 5350 1 1 c 11 he ^had the guts to re:s\ign th/ough# / 5 4 31 5360 1 1 c 11 when he ^didn`t agree with the :g\overnment# / 5 4 31 5370 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 31 5380 1 1 d 11 ^f/ine# / 5 4 31 5390 1 1 d 11 ^that`s all r/ight# / 5 4 31 5400 1 1 d 11 I`m ^only saying that :they do split up t/oo# . / 5 4 31 5410 1 1 d 11 and "^I would l/ike# / 5 4 31 5420 1 1 d 11 a [k@n] . ^I would like a :c\oalition :g/overnment#/ 5 4 31 5430 1 1 d 11 because if ^things are !half as :b\ad# / 5 4 31 5440 1 1 d 11 as "^\any {of the ^p\apers#}# / 5 4 31 5450 1 1 d 11 ^tell me they =are# . / 5 4 31 5460 1 1 d 11 ^every :m=orning# . / 5 4 31 5470 1 1 d 11 the ^situation is :d=esperate# / 5 4 31 5480 1 1 d 11 and ^w=arrants# / 5 4 31 5490 1 1 d 11 the "^best br\ains {of the ^c\ountry#}# . / 5 4 31 5500 1 1 d 11 ^what"!\ever {their po^litical v\iews#}# / 5 4 31 5510 1 1 aud 20 ( - - - applause) / 5 4 32 5520 1 1 f 11 you ^know it is an _extra\ordinary th/ing# / 5 4 32 5530 1 1 f 11 you [kn] I ^think you can "!n\ever f/ind# / 5 4 32 5540 1 1 f 11 ^Members of Parliament a!gr\/eeing# / 5 4 32 5550 1 1 f 11 to ^have a coalition g/overnment# / 5 4 32 5560 1 1 f 11 they`re ^all ap!p\arently# / 5 4 32 5570 1 1 f 11 ^dead ag/ainst _it# / 5 4 32 5580 1 1 f 11 but . it ^takes somebody like Denzil B/achelor# / 5 4 32 5590 1 1 f 11 who`s "^out"s\ide it# / 5 4 32 5600 1 1 f 11 to ^say ((that)) he`s in f\avour _of it# . / 5 4 32 5610 1 1 f 21 [@:] we ^go on to the "!next question from (name) / 5 4 32 5620 1 4 II 20 (an Oxford woman statistician is reported to have / 5 4 32 5620 1 3 II 20 said that three pounds ten and fivepence halfpenny / 5 4 32 5620 1 2 II 20 would feed a family of five for one week what does / 5 4 32 5620 1 1 II 20 the panel think about this) / 5 4 32 5630 1 1 f 11 ^Honor !B\/alfour# / 5 4 32 5640 1 1 f 11 ^\obviously# / 5 4 32 5650 1 1 f 11 I ^must 'ask you to start th/is _one# - / 5 4 33 5660 1 1 h 11 ^w\ell# / 5 4 33 5670 1 1 h 11 you ^kn/ow {^Fr/eddy#}# / 5 4 33 5680 1 1 h 11 I ^h/\aven`t got# / 5 4 33 5690 1 1 h 11 a ^f/\amily# / 5 4 33 5700 1 1 h 11 of ^f\/ive# / 5 4 33 5710 1 1 h 11 at ^least not !y\et# / 5 4 33 5720 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 33 5730 1 1 f 11 ^/\oh _no# / 5 4 33 5740 1 1 f 12 I ^wasn`t - I ^wasn`t sug:g\esting _that# / 5 4 33 5750 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# - - / 5 4 33 5760 1 1 f 11 but it`s ^what we call the :woman`s \angle# / 5 4 33 5770 1 1 h 11 the ^woman`s \angle# / 5 4 33 5780 1 2 h 11 ^well now !let me try and think what 'is the / 5 4 33 5780 1 1 h 11 woman`s \angle# - - / 5 4 33 5790 1 1 h 11 ^I !think most of the women in :this \audience# / 5 4 33 5800 1 1 h 11 would ^pr/\obably a_gree# / 5 4 33 5810 1 1 h 11 with ^m/e# - / 5 4 33 5820 1 1 h 11 ^if !I s\/aid# . / 5 4 33 5830 1 1 h 11 that pro^v\/ided# . / 5 4 33 5840 1 1 h 11 ^that you had !/\absolutely# / 5 4 33 5850 1 1 h 11 ^n/\othing _else# / 5 4 33 5860 1 1 h 11 to ^d\/o# . / 5 4 33 5870 1 1 h 11 and that ^/\every _day# / 5 4 33 5880 1 1 h 11 was ^m\arket d/ay# . / 5 4 33 5890 1 1 h 11 ^and that !/every sh\op# / 5 4 33 5900 1 1 h 11 ^was !f\ull# / 5 4 33 5910 1 1 h 11 of "^/\all the _things {you ^w\anted#}# / 5 4 33 5920 1 1 h 11 at extra"^\ordinarily _cheap {^pr\ices#}# . / 5 4 34 5930 1 2 h 11 ^none of which could of :course be "!\ever / 5 4 34 5930 1 1 h 11 _possible# / 5 4 34 5940 1 1 h 11 ^under !Colin Hodgkinson`s :g\/overnment# . / 5 4 34 5950 1 1 h 11 ^then it 'might be 'possible to !do !th\is# - / 5 4 34 5960 1 2 h 11 but ^failing :those con:ditions :being / 5 4 34 5960 1 1 h 11 ful!f\/illed# . / 5 4 34 5970 1 1 h 11 ^then I th/ink# / 5 4 34 5980 1 1 h 11 we`re ^living in !cloud !c\uckoo _land# . / 5 4 34 5990 1 1 h 11 and ^s\o I f/ear# / 5 4 34 6000 1 1 h 11 is this ^Oxford !l\ady# / 5 4 34 6010 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 34 6020 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil _B/achelor# / 5 4 34 6030 1 1 d 11 ^I find those :f\igures# / 5 4 34 6040 1 1 d 11 "^v\ery _difficult# / 5 4 34 6050 1 1 d 11 to ^reconcile to re_/ality# . / 5 4 34 6060 1 1 d 11 the ^three pounds :ten and :f\ivepence# . / 5 4 34 6070 1 1 d 11 ^I can :under!st/and# / 5 4 34 6080 1 1 d 11 but ^wh/\at is this _woman# / 5 4 34 6090 1 1 d 11 "^squandering that ":h\alfpenny on# / 5 4 34 6100 1 1 d 20 (laughs) / 5 4 34 6110 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 35 6120 1 2 d 12 [@:] . it [@] it - - it ^wouldn`t - - it ^wouldn`t / 5 4 35 6120 1 1 d 12 work in :m\y h/ouse# / 5 4 35 6130 1 1 d 11 ^I`ve got . :only !tw\o ch/ildren# / 5 4 35 6140 1 1 d 11 but "^b\oth my children :/eat# / 5 4 35 6150 1 1 d 11 and their ^father dr\inks# . / 5 4 35 6160 1 1 d 11 and . it ^wouldn`t go r\ound# / 5 4 35 6170 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 35 6180 1 1 f 11 it ^wouldn`t w\ork# *.* / 5 4 35 6190 1 1 f 11 ^Victor M/ishcon# - / 5 4 35 6200 1 1 ? 11 *^n\o#* / 5 4 35 6210 1 1 v 11 this ^good l/ady# . / 5 4 35 6220 1 1 v 11 must ^really be l/ike# . / 5 4 35 6230 1 1 v 11 the ^statist/ician# - / 5 4 35 6240 1 1 v 11 ^who was de!scr/ibed# . / 5 4 35 6250 1 1 v 11 in ^most !m\oving t/erms# - / 5 4 35 6260 1 2 v 11 as ^very much like . [ei] . :drunk . man . and [ei]/ 5 4 35 6260 1 1 v 11 :l\amppost# - / 5 4 35 6270 1 1 v 11 in ^other w=ords# . / 5 4 35 6280 1 1 v 11 it was ^used for sup:p=ort# - / 5 4 35 6290 1 1 v 11 and ^not for illumi:n\ation# / 5 4 35 6300 1 1 v 11 (laughs) - - and I ^r/\eally _think# / 5 4 35 6310 1 1 v 11 she ^must have been end\/eavouring# / 5 4 35 6320 1 1 v 11 to ^prove s\/omething# / 5 4 35 6330 1 1 v 11 I ^don`t 'quite know wh\at# - / 5 4 36 6340 1 1 v 11 it`s "^either the _sort of qu\/estion# / 5 4 36 6350 1 1 v 11 I re^m=ember# / 5 4 36 6360 1 1 v 11 we ^once had bef/ore# / 5 4 36 6370 1 1 v 11 as to ^whether you could :{d/o} with:/out# - / 5 4 36 6380 1 1 v 11 ^any sort of :n\ormal f/ood# . / 5 4 36 6390 1 1 v 11 and ^just live on . :v\itamin t/ablets# - / 5 4 36 6400 1 1 v 11 or ^whether she`s got some id/ea# / 5 4 36 6410 1 1 v 11 of a ^f=amily# / 5 4 36 6420 1 1 v 11 of . ^dear little m/ice# / 5 4 36 6430 1 1 v 11 and ^not human b/eings# . / 5 4 36 6440 1 1 v 11 I ^just couldn`t "t\ell you# - / 5 4 36 6450 1 1 v 11 but "^heaven "!\only kn/ows# / 5 4 36 6460 1 1 v 11 ^how she !managed to :work this one \out# - / 5 4 36 6470 1 1 v 11 but ^all \I can s/ay _is# . / 5 4 36 6480 1 1 v 11 ^my 'healthy f/amily# . / 5 4 36 6490 1 1 v 11 could "^n\ot l/ive# / 5 4 36 6500 1 2 v 11 ^on ((a)) !three pounds :ten and :fivepence / 5 4 36 6500 1 1 v 11 !halfpenny a !w/\eek# / 5 4 36 6510 1 1 v 11 and she ^must have a most "!m\iserable _list# / 5 4 36 6520 1 1 v 11 of ^f\/oods# - / 5 4 36 6530 1 1 v 11 [@m i i] in ^order . to "!tr\y and :pr/ove# / 5 4 36 6540 1 1 v 11 ^her p\oint# / 5 4 37 6550 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 37 6560 1 1 f 11 ^C\olin H/odgkinson# - / 5 4 37 6570 1 1 c 11 the ^city of Oxford near which I l/ive# - / 5 4 37 6580 1 2 c 11 is re^nowned for its boffins and its / 5 4 37 6580 1 1 c 11 statis:t\icians# - / 5 4 37 6590 1 1 c 11 but ^I p\/ersonally# / 5 4 37 6600 1 1 c 11 have ^never f\/ound# / 5 4 37 6610 1 1 c 11 a ^boffin or a :statis!t\ician# . / 5 4 37 6620 1 2 c 11 who ^worked things out in :th\eory {which ^ever / 5 4 37 6620 1 1 c 11 came 'out in :pr\actice#}# - / 5 4 37 6630 1 1 c 11 ^I !personally would :not l\ike# / 5 4 37 6640 1 1 c 11 [@:] to ^kn\ow# . / 5 4 37 6650 1 1 c 11 ex^actly what this good :l\ady# . / 5 4 37 6660 1 1 c 11 [@:] ex^pected her the "!w\ife of a _family# / 5 4 37 6670 1 1 c 11 to ^give them to !\eat# - / 5 4 37 6680 1 1 c 11 my ^wife is a par:ticularly good :c\ook# . / 5 4 37 6690 1 1 c 11 but ^G\od {^kn\ows#} {^what she`d !g\ive me#}# / 5 4 37 6700 1 1 c 11 if I ^only gave her :three pound :ten a :w\eek# - / 5 4 37 6710 1 1 c 11 ((for^g\ive me#)) - - / 5 4 37 6720 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 37 6730 1 1 f 11 ((it would be)) ^r\ather _interesting# / 5 4 37 6740 1 1 f 11 to ^tr\y# / 5 4 38 6750 1 1 f 11 ^w/ouldn`t it# / 5 4 38 6760 1 1 f 11 ^just to see what :h/appens# / 5 4 38 6770 1 1 f 20 *((sylls))* / 5 4 38 6780 1 1 c 11 *^oh no n\o#* / 5 4 38 6790 1 1 f 11 now ^Honor B\alfour# / 5 4 38 6800 1 1 f 11 ^want to *come ((b\ack))#* / 5 4 38 6810 1 2 h 12 *well ^if* ^if [dhi: @] re:port which :I read was / 5 4 38 6810 1 1 h 12 cor!r\ect# . / 5 4 38 6820 1 1 h 11 [@] ^this particular lady was re!p\orted# / 5 4 38 6830 1 1 h 11 as ^s\aying# / 5 4 38 6840 1 1 h 11 ^f\inally# / 5 4 38 6850 1 1 h 11 at the "^/\end {of an ^\interview#}# / 5 4 38 6860 1 1 h 11 which she ^gave to !\one re:p/orter# . / 5 4 38 6870 1 1 h 11 ^s/omething# / 5 4 38 6880 1 1 h 11 to the ef^f\ect# / 5 4 38 6890 1 1 h 11 that ^r\eally# - / 5 4 38 6900 1 1 h 11 she`d ^worked things :\out# / 5 4 38 6910 1 1 h 11 be^cause she !wanted to kn\/ow# / 5 4 38 6920 1 1 h 11 if it was ^really p\ossible# / 5 4 38 6930 1 1 h 11 for a ^family . 'of !f\/ive# . / 5 4 38 6940 1 1 h 11 to ^l\/ive# / 5 4 38 6950 1 1 h 11 ^on 'unem'ployment :p\ay# - / 5 4 38 6960 1 1 h 11 which ^seemed to :m\/e# / 5 4 38 6970 1 1 h 11 as ^though she was in !rather ca:h\/oots# / 5 4 38 6980 1 1 h 11 with [dhi:] . ^three !s\o-c/alled# / 5 4 38 6990 1 1 h 11 ^wise !m\en# - - / 5 4 39 7000 1 1 h 11 in ^other w\/ords# / 5 4 39 7010 1 1 h 11 that ^she was !pl\anning# / 5 4 39 7020 1 1 h 11 for ^what [@:] our :fr\iend# / 5 4 39 7030 1 1 h 11 ^h\ere# / 5 4 39 7040 1 1 h 11 ^Mr Colin !H\/odgkinson# / 5 4 39 7050 1 1 h 11 ^may be . pre!p\aring# / 5 4 39 7060 1 1 h 11 for ^our !f\uture# - / 5 4 39 7070 1 1 h 11 ^inci!d\/entally# / 5 4 39 7080 1 1 h 11 ^I !did \once# / 5 4 39 7090 1 1 h 11 ^know a !man who !lived on !gr\ass# - / 5 4 39 7100 1 1 f 11 ^y\es# / 5 4 39 7110 1 1 f 11 ^so did \I# / 5 4 39 7120 1 1 aud 20 ( - - laughter) / 5 4 39 7130 1 1 f 11 I ^understand he`s d\ead {^n\ow#}# / 5 4 39 7140 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# - / 5 4 39 7150 1 1 d 21 ^can I (([ha?])) / 5 4 39 7160 1 1 f 11 - ^yes D/enzil# / 5 4 39 7170 1 1 d 11 ^well I I !must s\/ay# / 5 4 39 7180 1 1 d 11 that if - if ^Honor :Balfour`s !r/\ight# / 5 4 39 7190 1 1 d 11 and the . the ^good lady was !s\eeing# / 5 4 39 7200 1 1 d 11 ^whether a !f\amily {of ^f\ive#}# - / 5 4 39 7210 1 1 d 12 ^could ^this was an ex"!p\eriment# . / 5 4 39 7220 1 1 d 11 to ^see whether a !family of :f\/ive# / 5 4 40 7230 1 1 d 11 ^c/\ould live _on# / 5 4 40 7240 1 2 d 11 ^three pound :ten and :fivepence !halfpenny a / 5 4 40 7240 1 1 d 11 !w/eek# - / 5 4 40 7250 1 1 d 11 it was . ^under'taken 'very [l/\aik]# / 5 4 40 7260 1 1 d 11 [?@: @] ^very l/\ightly# . / 5 4 40 7270 1 1 d 11 sup^pose the ex!periment !f/\ailed# / 5 4 40 7280 1 1 d 11 and ^all !five !d/\ied# - / 5 4 40 7290 1 1 d 11 ^had she !thought out !what to do !th/\en# - - / 5 4 40 7300 1 1 f 11 ^y\es# . / 5 4 40 7310 1 1 f 11 the ^h\alfpenny _wouldn`t go _very *far* _then# / 5 4 40 7320 1 1 f 11 ^w\ould it# - / 5 4 40 7330 1 1 f 20 (clears throat) / 5 4 40 7340 1 1 d 11 *^n\o#* / 5 4 40 7350 1 2 v 11 well she ^certainly :couldn`t have :thought of it / 5 4 40 7350 1 1 v 11 under a :Tory government \anyway# - - / 5 4 40 7360 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 40 7370 1 2 f 11 ^I !h\oped ((you)) were going to keep politics :out/ 5 4 40 7370 1 1 f 11 of !th/is _one# / 5 4 40 7380 1 1 f 11 but ap^parently we *:c/an`t#* / 5 4 40 7390 1 1 d 11 *the* ^Labour 'Party never :c/\an# - - / 5 4 40 7400 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 41 7410 1 1 f 11 but you ^kn/\ow _ladies {and ^g\entlemen#}# / 5 4 41 7420 1 1 aud 20 ( - - applause) / 5 4 41 7430 1 1 f 11 when ^all is said and d\one# / 5 4 41 7440 1 2 f 11 sta^tistics can be \awfully funny things if you / 5 4 41 7440 1 1 f 11 don`t take them the right w/ay# / 5 4 41 7450 1 1 f 11 you ^kn\ow {that ^f\amous {^st=ory#}#}# / 5 4 41 7460 1 1 f 11 of the ^two ladies who :m=et# / 5 4 41 7470 1 1 f 11 they ^hadn`t s\een each other for a long t/ime# - / 5 4 41 7480 1 1 f 11 ((the)) ^first lady said to the . s=econd# / 5 4 41 7490 1 1 f 11 she ^said my dear I`m being !\awfully _s/illy# / 5 4 41 7500 1 1 f 11 but "^how many "ch\ildren have you :g/ot# / 5 4 41 7510 1 1 f 11 I`ve ^quite forg/otten# - / 5 4 41 7520 1 1 f 11 and the ^other one s=aid# / 5 4 41 7530 1 1 f 11 [@:] . ^I`ve got "!thr\ee# / 5 4 41 7540 1 1 f 11 ^I`m not !g\oing to have any m/ore# . / 5 4 41 7550 1 1 f 11 and ^/\oh# / 5 4 41 7560 1 2 f 11 [dhi: @] ^first lady said well !that !\is / 5 4 41 7560 1 1 f 11 surpr/ising# / 5 4 41 7570 1 2 f 11 ((if)) you`ve ^got ((from)) :what you :\used to / 5 4 41 7570 1 1 f 11 "t/ell me# / 5 4 41 7580 1 1 f 11 I ^always im\/agined# / 5 4 41 7590 1 1 f 11 you were ^going to have a 'really 'large !f\amily# / 5 4 42 7600 1 1 f 11 ^oh !y\es said the _second _lady# / 5 4 42 7610 1 1 f 11 that`s "^quite tr/ue# / 5 4 42 7620 1 2 f 11 but you ^see I`ve !just been reading some / 5 4 42 7620 1 1 f 11 sta:t\istics# - / 5 4 42 7630 1 1 f 11 and I ^see by th/em# / 5 4 42 7640 1 1 f 11 that ^{/every} 'fourth 'child b/orn# / 5 4 42 7650 1 1 f 11 is a ^J/apa!n\ese# / 5 4 42 7660 1 1 aud 20 ( - - - laughter) / 5 4 42 7670 1 2 f 11 "^I think we`d better go on to the next question / 5 4 42 7670 1 1 f 11 fr=om# / 5 4 42 7680 1 1 f 20 (name) / 5 4 42 7690 1 4 II 20 (considering the financial state of the National / 5 4 42 7690 1 3 II 20 Health Service and the increased contributions / 5 4 42 7690 1 2 II 20 should astute foreigners be asked to pay for / 5 4 42 7690 1 1 II 20 treatment) / 5 4 42 7700 1 1 f 11 ^Victor _M/ishcon# / 5 4 42 7710 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 42 7720 1 1 v 11 you ^know there`s "!!\one _thing# / 5 4 42 7730 1 1 v 11 that [@m] - a^m\azes me about this qu/estion# - / 5 4 42 7740 1 1 v 11 it ^is the /use {of the ^w/ord#}# . / 5 4 42 7750 1 1 v 11 as"^t\ute# . / 5 4 43 7760 1 1 c 11 ^y\es# / 5 4 43 7770 1 1 h 11 ^y\es# . / 5 4 43 7780 1 1 h 11 ^hear h\ear# - / 5 4 43 7790 1 1 v 11 [@:m] I I ^don`t quite !under!st\and th/at# . / 5 4 43 7800 1 1 v 11 I mean "^either [dhi] . the the :p\oint /is# / 5 4 43 7810 1 1 v 11 that [@m] . ^f\oreigners# / 5 4 43 7820 1 1 v 11 ^coming over h/ere# / 5 4 43 7830 1 1 v 11 ^ought to be asked to pay for :tr/eatment# / 5 4 43 7840 1 2 v 11 and ^shouldn`t have the :benefit of our . !National/ 5 4 43 7840 1 1 v 11 'Health S/ervice# - / 5 4 43 7850 1 1 v 11 [@:m] . ^or they !!sh\ouldn`t# - / 5 4 43 7860 1 1 v 11 [@:m] I ^don`t under!st\and# / 5 4 43 7870 1 2 v 11 the [dhi dhi dhi dhi] this [w@] this ^word as:t\ute/ 5 4 43 7870 1 1 v 11 at /all# - / 5 4 43 7880 1 1 v 11 ^what "d\oes of course :h/appen# / 5 4 43 7890 1 1 v 11 is ^th\is you kn/ow# / 5 4 43 7900 1 2 v 11 that . there`s ^quite a :lot of :mutual / 5 4 43 7900 1 1 v 11 ar!r\angement in re:g/ard to _it# - / 5 4 43 7910 1 1 v 11 and ^many . [@] !Br\itish subjects going abr/oad# ./ 5 4 43 7920 1 1 v 11 have ^\also got the r/ight# / 5 4 44 7930 1 1 v 11 to . [@] ^take the b/enefit# . / 5 4 44 7940 1 1 v 11 of ^National Health . [@] :Service sch/emes# . / 5 4 44 7950 1 1 v 11 in ^other !c\ountries# - / 5 4 44 7960 1 1 v 11 [@:] the ^other 'thing you kn/ow# / 5 4 44 7970 1 1 aud 20 ( - - no no) / 5 4 44 7980 1 1(v 11 ^ooh there /are {^s/ome#}# / 5 4 44 7990 1 1 v 11 oh ^yes do do be!l\ieve me# . / 5 4 44 8000 1 2 v 11 and the ^other thing that I :did want to to !point / 5 4 44 8000 1 1 v 11 \out you kn/ow# / 5 4 44 8010 1 1 v 11 is is ^th\is# . / 5 4 44 8020 1 1 v 11 I`m ^told that . it !would take an !awful l\ot# - / 5 4 44 8030 1 1 v 11 ^of ad!ministr/ation# - / 5 4 44 8040 1 1 v 11 ^to ex!c\ept foreigners 'from :th/is# - / 5 4 44 8050 1 1 v 11 and that it`s ^far less :c\/ostly# . / 5 4 44 8060 1 1 v 11 to ^have them . 'in the !sch\eme# . / 5 4 44 8070 1 1 v 11 and to be ^able to take advantage \of it# . / 5 4 44 8080 1 1 v 11 but I "^am going to adm\it# . / 5 4 44 8090 1 1 v 11 that ^there is !quite . [ei] :p\oint# - / 5 4 44 8100 1 1 v 11 in ^any'one who !s\ays# . / 5 4 44 8110 1 1 v 11 if you ^manage to !pr\ove# / 5 4 45 8120 1 1 v 11 that he ^could save us :quite a 'bit of m/oney# - / 5 4 45 8130 1 1 v 11 that ^foreigners !!c\oming over h/ere# . / 5 4 45 8140 1 2 v 11 and ^coming from :countries where there "!\is no / 5 4 45 8140 1 1 v 11 question of any mutual b/enefit# . / 5 4 45 8150 1 1 v 11 ^should be "\asked to _pay# - / 5 4 45 8160 1 1 v 11 I ^see no !earthly r\eason# . / 5 4 45 8170 1 1 v 11 in ^j\ustice# . / 5 4 45 8180 1 1 v 11 why ^that should !not be d\one# . / 5 4 45 8190 1 1 v 11 but I "^am t/old# / 5 4 45 8200 1 1 v 11 that the ^cost as I said of differ\/entiating# / 5 4 45 8210 1 1 v 11 be^tw\/een _them# . / 5 4 45 8220 1 1 v 11 ^would a!mount to :m\/ore# / 5 4 45 8230 1 1 v 11 than the ^benefit of the sch\/eme# . / 5 4 45 8240 1 1 v 11 and "^c\/ertainly# / 5 4 45 8250 1 1 v 11 it ^does g/ive# . / 5 4 45 8260 1 1 v 11 a ^very very . "!g\ood indi_cation# / 5 4 45 8270 1 1 v 11 to ^foreigners !over !h/ere# . / 5 4 45 8280 1 1 v 11 ^coming 'as visitors :over !h/ere# . / 5 4 45 8290 1 1 v 11 [@m] ^of . !wh\at our scheme is :l/ike# . / 5 4 45 8300 1 2 v 11 and ^how !welcome they are made in our / 5 4 45 8300 1 1 v 11 c\ountry# - - / 5 4 46 8310 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil B/achelor# - / 5 4 46 8320 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 46 8330 1 2 d 11 [@] . I I ^I think 'this is a ":h\orrible / 5 4 46 8330 1 1 d 11 {sug^g\estion#}# - / 5 4 46 8340 1 1 d 11 if you ^ask "m/\e# . / 5 4 46 8350 1 1 d 11 this ^free . 'medical . "!tr\eatment# . / 5 4 46 8360 1 1 d 11 ^of !foreigners :whether as!tute or :\otherwise# / 5 4 46 8370 1 1 d 11 and ^they`re "!n\ot _marked# / 5 4 46 8380 1 1 d 11 on ^their !p\assports# / 5 4 46 8390 1 1 d 11 you [k@] you ^can`t !t\ell# . / 5 4 46 8400 1 1 d 11 ^are you an as!tute f/oreigner# . / 5 4 46 8410 1 1 d 11 or ^are you a !f/oreigner# / 5 4 46 8420 1 1 d 11 can ^anybody be s\ure# - / 5 4 46 8430 1 1 d 11 ^this 'is 'our 'greatest 'tourist at!tr/\action# . / 5 4 46 8440 1 1 d 11 ^this is even better :than !Stone!h\enge# - / 5 4 46 8450 1 1 d 11 for "^y\ears# / 5 4 46 8460 1 1 d 11 ^we have been im":p\orting# . / 5 4 46 8470 1 1 d 11 ^French . m\aids# / 5 4 46 8480 1 1 d 11 ^who !have !come to \us# / 5 4 46 8490 1 1 d 11 and ^given the most !l\oyal {^s\ervice#}# . / 5 4 46 8500 1 1 d 11 ^until . their :free dental :treatment is /over# . / 5 4 47 8510 1 1 d 11 ^when they ret/urn to Fr\ance# - - - / 5 4 47 8520 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 47 8530 1 1 f 11 ^Honor B/alfour# - / 5 4 47 8540 1 1 h 11 ^well I m/\ust _say# / 5 4 47 8550 1 1 h 11 since ^Denzil brings up Stoneh=enge# / 5 4 47 8560 1 2 h 11 you ^know if we`re !really going to set / 5 4 47 8560 1 1 h 11 Stone:h\enge# / 5 4 47 8570 1 1 h 11 on its ^f=eet# . / 5 4 47 8580 1 1 h 11 ^p\/ersonally# / 5 4 47 8590 1 1 h 11 I`d ^rather 'set 'human b\eings on their _feet# - / 5 4 47 8600 1 1 h 11 ^whether they be !Br/itishers# / 5 4 47 8610 1 1 h 11 ^or \otherwise# - / 5 4 47 8620 1 1 h 11 it ^so h/appens# / 5 4 47 8630 1 2 h 11 ^I have a !great deal of associ/ation with / 5 4 47 8630 1 1 h 11 Am\ericans# . / 5 4 47 8640 1 2 h 11 and I ^must say from :m/\y ex_perience / 5 4 47 8640 1 1 h 11 {"^th\ere#}# . / 5 4 47 8650 1 1 h 11 [dhi ?] ^National Health :S\ervice# . / 5 4 47 8660 1 1 h 11 of which ^they are able to a:v\ail them_selves# . / 5 4 47 8670 1 1 h 11 ^really p=ays for it_self# / 5 4 47 8680 1 1 h 11 ^over and :over ag\ain# / 5 4 48 8690 1 2 h 11 be^cause it is the !biggest and !cheapest 'boost / 5 4 48 8690 1 1 h 11 for Br\itain# . / 5 4 48 8700 1 2 h 11 that ^this country has :ever put over to that / 5 4 48 8700 1 1 h 11 :dollar-earning c\ountry# / 5 4 48 8710 1 1 ? 11 ^y\es# / 5 4 48 8720 1 1(h 11 it ^really =is# / 5 4 48 8730 1 1 h 11 it`s ^something . !qu\ite a_stounding# - / 5 4 48 8740 1 2 h 11 the ^foreigners who !d\o avail themselves of our / 5 4 48 8740 1 1 h 11 :H/ealth _Service# / 5 4 48 8750 1 1 h 11 go ^back to their re:spective :c/ountries# . / 5 4 48 8760 1 1 h 11 ^saying what a "!w\onderful country this :/is# / 5 4 48 8770 1 1 h 11 what "^w\onderful _scien_tific# / 5 4 48 8780 1 1 h 11 a^ch=ievements we _have# . / 5 4 48 8790 1 2 h 11 what . ^wonderful de:votion we :have from they`ve / 5 4 48 8790 1 1 h 11 :had from our !n=urses# / 5 4 48 8800 1 1 h 11 and our ^d=octors# / 5 4 48 8810 1 1 h 11 and ^everyone has been so :k=ind to _them# . / 5 4 48 8820 1 2 h 11 ^they !take back a !gl\owing _picture {of ^this / 5 4 48 8820 1 1 h 11 c\ountry#}# . / 5 4 48 8830 1 1 h 11 that ^Doctor Charles Hill could ":n\ever _paint# / 5 4 49 8840 1 2 h 11 with "^all the 'money that he 'manages to 'get for / 5 4 49 8840 1 1 h 11 his 'infor'mation s\ervices# - / 5 4 49 8850 1 1 h 11 ^\I _think# / 5 4 49 8860 1 2 h 11 for the ^sm\all a_mount of _money {that it ^d\oes / 5 4 49 8860 1 1 h 11 _take#}# . / 5 4 49 8870 1 1 h 11 it`s ^jolly well :w\orth it# . / 5 4 49 8880 1 1 h 11 ^both fi!n=ancially# / 5 4 49 8890 1 1 h 11 ^and in terms of human b\eings# / 5 4 49 8900 1 1 h 11 ^let`s st\ick to it# / 5 4 49 8910 1 1 h 11 and pro^gr\ess with it# - / 5 4 49 8920 1 1 f 11 ^Colin H/odgkinson# - - / 5 4 49 8930 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 49 8940 1 1 c 11 ^m\adam# - / 5 4 49 8950 1 2 c 11 if ^\I _came {to ^any c\ountry {and / 5 4 49 8950 1 1 c 11 re^c\eived#}#}# . / 5 4 49 8960 1 1 c 11 a ^free Health S/ervice# / 5 4 49 8970 1 2 c 11 ^\I would go back {in ^glowing terms ((to)) that / 5 4 49 8970 1 1 c 11 c\ountry#}# - - / 5 4 49 8980 1 1 c 11 ^we have to :p\ay for it# - / 5 4 49 8990 1 1 c 11 ^I th=ink# . / 5 4 49 9000 1 2 c 11 [@:] and I ^do not a:gree with Mr :Mishcon / 5 4 49 9000 1 1 c 11 !h/ere# . / 5 4 49 9010 1 1 c 11 he has ^said that . [@:] :anybody over :h=ere# / 5 4 49 9020 1 1 c 11 can get a re^ciprocal service overs\eas# / 5 4 50 9030 1 1 v 11 I ^said there 'are *"!s\ome re_ciprocal _services#*/ 5 4 50 9040 1 1 h 11 *^oh n/\o# . / 5 4 50 9050 1 1 h 11 +((^n/\o _no#))*+ / 5 4 50 9060 1 1 c 11 +[?@:] I+ ^beg your p\ardon# . / 5 4 50 9070 1 1 c 11 I I I ^mish\eard you# . / 5 4 50 9080 1 1 c 11 there are "^some reciprocal :s/ervices# / 5 4 50 9090 1 1 c 11 but ^I p\/ersonally# / 5 4 50 9100 1 2 c 12 have [@ng] ^having ^having had . :travelled a / 5 4 50 9100 1 1 c 12 !little b/it# . / 5 4 50 9110 1 1 c 11 have "^not received one ":y\et# . / 5 4 50 9120 1 1 c 20 [@] / 5 4 50 9130 1 2 h 11 ((well)) you`ve ^not been to Belgium and *broken / 5 4 50 9130 1 1 h 11 ((a))* :l\eg# / 5 4 50 9140 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 50 9150 1 1 c 11 *((oh ^g\ood#* - / 5 4 50 9160 1 1 c 11 ^B\elgium`s got one# . / 5 4 50 9170 1 1 c 11 glad to ^kn\ow about it#)) - / 5 4 50 9180 1 2 c 12 with [rig] with re^gard . with re^gard to the / 5 4 50 9180 1 1 c 12 ad:minis:tr\/ation# / 5 4 50 9190 1 3 c 11 ^I . am in !not in any position to :s\ay {^whether / 5 4 50 9190 1 2 c 11 it would be :ch\eaper {or ^((whether)) it would be / 5 4 50 9190 1 1 c 11 n\ot#}#}# . / 5 4 51 9200 1 1 c 11 but ^quite fr\/ankly# / 5 4 51 9210 1 1 c 11 as a ^man who has to pay :high t\/axes# / 5 4 51 9220 1 1 c 11 for my^self and my :f\/amily# / 5 4 51 9230 1 2 c 11 as I`m ^sure everybody 'here ((is)) in the / 5 4 51 9230 1 1 c 11 :\audience# . / 5 4 51 9240 1 1 c 11 I ^strongly d\eprecate# . / 5 4 51 9250 1 1 c 11 ^f\oreigners# / 5 4 51 9260 1 1 c 11 ^coming to this :c\ountry# . / 5 4 51 9270 1 1 c 11 and being ^\/able# . / 5 4 51 9280 1 1 c 11 to to "^\use# / 5 4 51 9290 1 1 c 11 "^our s/ervice# . / 5 4 51 9300 1 1 c 11 with"^\out _paying# / 5 4 51 9310 1 1 c 11 "^\/anything# / 5 4 51 9320 1 1 c 11 ^for it at \all# / 5 4 51 9330 1 1 aud 20 ( - - - applause) / 5 4 51 9340 1 1 f 11 *^((Victor)) M/ishcon#* / 5 4 51 9350 1 1 v 11 *I I ^would like* to make :\one p/oint# . / 5 4 51 9360 1 2 v 11 it`s a ^dreadful thing to :have to cor:rect Denzil / 5 4 51 9360 1 1 v 11 :B/achelor# / 5 4 51 9370 1 1 v 11 be^cause I !think in the !whole of his l/ife# / 5 4 52 9380 1 1 v 11 he`s been ^quite in:f/allible# / 5 4 52 9390 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# / 5 4 52 9400 1 2(v 11 but . on ^this occasion 'I . I I I I I :r\eally / 5 4 52 9400 1 1(v 11 :m/ust# / 5 4 52 9410 1 1 v 11 he`s a^gr\eeing w/ith me# . / 5 4 52 9420 1 1 v 11 [@m] . you ^kn/ow# / 5 4 52 9430 1 1 v 11 ^if . French maids :d\o come over h/ere# . / 5 4 52 9440 1 1 v 11 a^part from the :fact that they are ex!tr\emely# / 5 4 52 9450 1 1 v 11 ^d\/ecorative# / 5 4 52 9460 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 5 4 52 9470 1 1(v 11 he "^ought to know :\as a f/act# . / 5 4 52 9480 1 1 v 11 that ^they will !h\ave to p/ay# / 5 4 52 9490 1 1 v 11 their ^National 'Health contri:b=utions# . / 5 4 52 9500 1 1 v 11 ^while they are em!pl\oyed# / 5 4 52 9510 1 1 v 11 as do^mestic !s/ervants# . / 5 4 52 9520 1 2 v 11 and they will ^therefore be !p\aying for their / 5 4 52 9520 1 1 v 11 :d/entures# . / 5 4 52 9530 1 2 v 11 and there is ^no question of their getting it / 5 4 52 9530 1 1 v 11 completely fr\ee# . / 5 4 52 9540 1 1 v 11 I ^say this in de:f\ence# . / 5 4 53 9550 1 1 v 11 of the ^French l\adies# / 5 4 53 9560 1 1 v 11 who "^d\o# / 5 4 53 9570 1 1 v 11 ap^pear in our :h/ome((s))# / 5 4 53 9580 1 1 v 11 ^somewhat oc:c/asionally# . / 5 4 53 9590 1 1 v 11 and "^very oc:c/asionally# . / 5 4 53 9600 1 1 v 11 and I I I . I ^didn`t want !D\enzil :B/achelor# / 5 4 53 9610 1 2 v 11 as I ^said to !make . just this . !first / 5 4 53 9610 1 1 v 11 mist\ake# . / 5 4 53 9620 1 1 v 11 in the ^whole of his !v\ery _brilliant {^l\ife#}# / 5 4 53 9630 1 1 d 11 ^th\ank you# / 5 4 53 9640 1 1 f 11 *^Colin* H=odgkinson# - / 5 4 53 9650 1 2 c 11 *I -* - I`ve ^just heard . [@:] . a :lot of talk / 5 4 53 9650 1 1 c 11 about :Fr\ench l/adies# / 5 4 53 9660 1 1 c 11 ^I have !never had one in :m\y h/ouse# - / 5 4 53 9670 1 1 c 11 but ^I`m ad!v/ised# / 5 4 53 9680 1 2 c 11 that they are ^not quite as :good-looking as the / 5 4 53 9680 1 1 c 11 :B\elgian _ladies# - / 5 4 53 9690 1 1 f 12 ^oh well that`s it ^y/es {Honor ^B/alfour#}# / 5 4 54 9700 1 1 h 11 well ^over two "v\ery short points of _fact# - / 5 4 54 9710 1 1 h 11 ^one =is# / 5 4 54 9720 1 1 h 12 that it ^is . it ^is "\absolutely tr/ue# / 5 4 54 9730 1 1 h 11 that there ^/are# . / 5 4 54 9740 1 1 h 11 spe^c\/ific# / 5 4 54 9750 1 1 h 11 ^inter!n/ational {a^gr/eements#}# / 5 4 54 9760 1 1 h 11 be^tween /us# / 5 4 54 9770 1 1 h 11 and at ^least three or four :\other c/ountries# - / 5 4 54 9780 1 1 h 11 and ^/others {are in the ^/offing#}# / 5 4 54 9790 1 2 h 11 to ^have re!ciprocal arrangements for :us to enjoy / 5 4 54 9790 1 1 h 11 ":th\eir _health _services# . / 5 4 54 9800 1 1 h 11 ^that is a 'matter of f\act# / 5 4 54 9810 1 1 h 11 and there`s ^no \arguing it# . / 5 4 54 9820 1 1 h 11 the ^other th/ing# / 5 4 54 9830 1 1 h 11 is a ^mere matter of :l\ogic# . / 5 4 54 9840 1 1 h 11 ^that /is# / 5 4 54 9850 1 2 h 11 if we are ^going to stop foreigners having the :use/ 5 4 54 9850 1 1 h 11 of our !h\ealth s/ervice# . / 5 4 54 9860 1 2 h 11 ^well then "!why should we [@]:[nei] en:\able / 5 4 54 9860 1 1 h 11 _them# / 5 4 54 9870 1 1 h 11 to ^have the !use of our po!l=ice {^s=ervices#}# . / 5 4 55 9880 1 1 h 11 ^our !r/oads# . / 5 4 55 9890 1 1 h 11 or ^any other :s=ervices# / 5 4 55 9900 1 1 h 11 our our our hy^gienic services as w\ell# / 5 4 55 9910 1 1 h 11 *- ^shut the lot from \everything#* / 5 4 55 9920 1 1 c 11 *oh ^m\adam# / 5 4 55 9930 1 1 c 11 ^don`t !mention _r\oads#* / 5 4 55 9940 1 1 c 11 ^don`t !mention r\oads {in ^th\is _country#}# / 5 4 55 9950 1 1 d 11 ^c/an you h\ave# / 5 4 55 9960 1 1 d 11 the ^fr\ee _health _services# / 5 4 55 9970 1 1 d 11 of ^witch d/octors# / 5 4 55 9980 1 1 d 11 ^when you are in Central _/Africa# - - / 5 4 55 9990 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 5510000 1 1 f 11 I ^never !g\ot as far as :th/at# - - / 5 4 5510010 1 1 f 11 (laughs) the ^team`s spl\it over :th/is# . / 5 4 5510020 1 1 f 11 well ((well)) they`ll ^n\ever agr/ee# / 5 4 5510030 1 1 f 11 ^qu/ite# / 5 4 5510040 1 1 f 11 a^bout !th/is# / 5 4 5510050 1 1 f 11 but [@m] . ^\I think we`d better go :/on# / 5 4 5510060 1 1 f 11 to the ^next !qu\estion# / 5 4 5510070 1 1 f 20 from [@:m] (name) / 5 4 5510080 1 3 II 20 (does the team think that the establishment of a / 5 4 5510080 1 2 II 20 large holiday camp is of benefit to the surrounding/ 5 4 5510080 1 1 II 20 locality) / 5 4 5610090 1 1 f 11 ^Colin H\odgkinson# / 5 4 5610100 1 2 f 11 ^wh/\at do _you {^f\eel a_bout {^h\oliday / 5 4 5610100 1 1 f 11 _camps#}#}# - / 5 4 5610110 1 2 c 11 [@:] . ^that`s what the Aus:tralians might call a / 5 4 5610110 1 1 c 11 !c\urly one# - / 5 4 5610120 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# . / 5 4 5610130 1 1 c 11 (laughs) - it`s ^obviously an in:sp\ired# / 5 4 5610140 1 1 c 11 ^qu\/estion# / 5 4 5610150 1 1 c 11 be^cause I`m . im!\/agining# / 5 4 5610160 1 1 c 11 that ^Bognor :R=egis# / 5 4 5610170 1 1 c 11 has ^got a !h\oliday :c/amp# / 5 4 5610180 1 1 c 11 which is ^planted !just !next !d\oor to it# - / 5 4 5610190 1 1 c 11 I ^don`t kn\ow# . / 5 4 5610200 1 1 c 11 but I im^agine it :h\as# . / 5 4 5610210 1 1 c 11 I [@:] - - it de^p\ends# / 5 4 5610220 1 1 c 11 ^Bognor :R/egis# / 5 4 5610230 1 1 c 11 was ^called !Bognor R/egis# / 5 4 5610240 1 1 c 12 be^cause it [@: - . dh] the ^qu=een came _down# / 5 4 5710250 1 1 c 11 and [@] the ^k\ing# . / 5 4 5710260 1 1 c 11 [@] ^King George the :Fifth came d\own# / 5 4 5710270 1 1 c 11 and ^spent his . conva!lescence down :h/ere# . / 5 4 5710280 1 1 c 11 [@] and in the ^process of :t/ime# / 5 4 5710290 1 1 c 11 it`s ^built up [?@: ?@:] a :certain !tr/ade# . / 5 4 5710300 1 1 c 11 [@] ^mostly :h\oliday :tr/ade# / 5 4 5710310 1 1 c 11 ^of a !certain !n\ature# . / 5 4 5710320 1 1 c 11 [@:] "^n/ow# / 5 4 5710330 1 1 c 11 a ^holiday :camp c\omes# / 5 4 5710340 1 1 c 11 and ^plants it:s=elf# / 5 4 5710350 1 1 c 11 ^not in its m=idst# / 5 4 5710360 1 1 c 11 ((1 syll)) but ^on its [@:] . !/out{^sk/irts#}# . / 5 4 5710370 1 2 c 11 and ^brings a !certain :different :type of . of of / 5 4 5710370 1 1 c 11 trade into the !d\istrict# . / 5 4 5710380 1 1 c 11 [@:] . ^times are ch\anging# - / 5 4 5710390 1 2 c 11 and I ^think that [@ . @:?] . !if we :set our / 5 4 5710390 1 1 c 11 !heads against !pr/ogress# . / 5 4 5710400 1 1 c 11 ^people :like to :have people !work h=ard# . / 5 4 5710410 1 1 c 11 ^m\ostly# . / 5 4 5710420 1 1 c 11 ^work !harder than they !\used to d/o# . / 5 4 5810430 1 1 c 11 and a ^lot of people :don`t want to be b\othered# / 5 4 5810440 1 1 c 11 to ^organize their h\olidays# - / 5 4 5810450 1 1 c 11 [@:] ^w/ell# / 5 4 5810460 1 1 c 11 you ^may be r/ight# / 5 4 5810470 1 1 c 11 you ^may be wr\ong# - / 5 4 5810480 1 1 c 11 [@:] - ^people l/ike# . / 5 4 5810490 1 1 c 11 it ^is a v/ogue# / 5 4 5810500 1 1 c 11 it is a ^fashion n/ow# / 5 4 5810510 1 1 c 11 that ^people a!d\/ore# / 5 4 5810520 1 1 c 11 to ^have their [hodl@] !h\/olidays# / 5 4 5810530 1 1 c 11 [@: ?] ^made _f\or them# . / 5 4 5810540 1 1 c 11 and I ^th\ink [@]# . / 5 4 5810550 1 1 c 11 with the ^greatest re:spect to :y\/ou# / 5 4 5810560 1 1 c 11 ^((and)) I am . {!sp\eaking} from this !pl\atform# / 5 4 5810570 1 1 c 11 and ^not !l\iving# / 5 4 5810580 1 1 c 11 in [@] ^Bognor :R\egis# / 5 4 5810590 1 1 c 11 so ^I am !not a "!s/ufferer# / 5 4 5810600 1 1 c 11 or what^ever you !like to !c\all it# / 5 4 5810610 1 1 c 11 [@: ?] ^/\I _think# / 5 4 5810620 1 2 c 12 that ^if you [s] ^if you . !turn your :head / 5 4 5810620 1 1 c 12 a!g\ainst# / 5 4 5810630 1 1 c 11 [@:] ^having a !holiday :camp h=ere# . / 5 4 5810640 1 2 c 11 ^one is !turning oneself against [@: @] / 5 4 5810640 1 1 c 11 :pr\ogress# . / 5 4 5910650 1 1 c 11 [@ i] ^of a certain t\ype# . / 5 4 5910660 1 1 c 11 if ^if you can {c\all} it pr\ogress# - / 5 4 5910670 1 1 c 11 they are ^obviously :b\uilding# . / 5 4 5910680 1 1 c 11 ^bringing a !lot of new :b/usiness# / 5 4 5910690 1 1 c 11 ^into the !t/own# / 5 4 5910700 1 1 c 11 in the ^holiday :t/ime# . / 5 4 5910710 1 1 c 11 and [@: ?@:] ^I have :no par!t\icular _views# / 5 4 5910720 1 1 c 11 on this ^s/ubject# / 5 4 5910730 1 1 c 11 be^cause I !don`t have to s\uffer it# / 5 4 5910740 1 1 c 11 if ^that`s the right w\ord# - / 5 4 5910750 1 1 f 11 [@:m] ^C/olin H\odgkinson# - / 5 4 5910760 1 1 f 11 ^isn`t it "tr\ue# / 5 4 5910770 1 1 f 11 that ^some of these h\oliday _camps# / 5 4 5910780 1 1 f 11 are com"^pletely :self-con:t\/ained# *.* / 5 4 5910790 2 1 f 21 and they "^d\on`t bring much / 5 4 5910800 1 1 ? 11 *^y\es#* / 5 4 5910790 1 1(f 11 business :into the !t/own# / 5 4 5910810 1 1 f 11 they`re en^t\irely# / 5 4 5910820 1 1 f 11 a ^self-contained !\/entity# . / 5 4 6010830 1 1 c 11 well ^s\ir# . / 5 4 6010840 1 1 c 11 ^don`t ask :m\/e# . / 5 4 6010850 1 1 c 11 you ^ask the people *h\ere# / 5 4 6010860 1 1 c 11 ^they should :kn\ow#* / 5 4 6010870 1 1 f 11 *((1 syll)) ^I wouldn`t kn\ow#* . / 5 4 6010880 1 1 f 11 it`s ^only my i:d\/ea# / 5 4 6010890 1 1 f 11 ^Victor +M/ishcon#+ / 5 4 6010900 1 1 c 11 +^((well))+ . you may be *r\ight#* / 5 4 6010910 1 1 v 11 *^well* - [@m] I`m !just w\ondering# / 5 4 6010920 1 1 v 11 you ^kn/ow# / 5 4 6010930 1 1 v 11 if ^that "\is _right# / 5 4 6010940 1 1 v 11 be^cause !quite \/obviously# / 5 4 6010950 1 1 v 11 the ^holiday :camp has :got to ":b\uy its# / 5 4 6010960 1 2 v 11 [@m] - ^quite a :bit of its - [@m] {!f/ood {and / 5 4 6010960 1 1 v 11 :st/uff}} l/ocally# . / 5 4 6010970 1 1 v 11 and ^quite obviously :people :wander ar/ound# . / 5 4 6010980 1 1 v 11 [@] ^fr\om the h/oliday {^c/amp#}# / 5 4 6010990 1 1 v 11 and and ^visit the !seaside !c\entre# / 5 4 6011000 1 1 v 11 but the ^point 'I w\ant to m/ake# / 5 4 6011010 1 1 v 11 ^is th\is# - / 5 4 6011020 1 1 v 11 ^I 'do regr\et you kn/ow# / 5 4 6011030 1 1 v 11 this . "^growing . "h\abit# / 5 4 6111040 1 1 v 11 of de^crying . English . !s\easide :pl/aces# . / 5 4 6111050 1 1 v 11 ^as a !place in !which to :spend a !h\oliday# - / 5 4 6111060 1 1 v 11 I ^think it`s "!t\erribly imp/ortant# . / 5 4 6111070 1 1 v 11 that ^p\/eople# / 5 4 6111080 1 1 v 11 es^pecially "y\oung p/eople# / 5 4 6111090 1 1 v 11 should ^go abr\oad# - / 5 4 6111100 1 1 v 11 and ^get to kn/ow# . / 5 4 6111110 1 1 v 11 [@:m] the ^h/abits# / 5 4 6111120 1 1 v 11 and the ^c/ustoms# / 5 4 6111130 1 1 v 11 and the ^w/ays# . / 5 4 6111140 1 1 v 11 of . ^/other !p\eoples# - / 5 4 6111150 1 1 v 11 but I ^think it`s a "!dr\eadful {^th\ing#}# / 5 4 6111160 1 1 v 11 you ^kn/ow# / 5 4 6111170 1 2 v 11 to ^grow 'up . and !not know the :beauties of your / 5 4 6111170 1 1 v 11 :own c\ountry# - / 5 4 6111180 1 1 v 11 and . "^if the :h\oliday c/amps# . / 5 4 6111190 1 1 v 11 are ^making it :\/easier# . / 5 4 6111200 1 1 v 11 for ^people . to . "!c\ome# / 5 4 6111210 1 1 v 11 to ^\English# / 5 4 6111220 1 1 v 11 ^s\easide# / 5 4 6111230 1 1 v 11 ^pl/aces# / 5 4 6111240 1 1 v 11 and ^other !b\eautiful {^pl\aces#}# / 5 4 6111250 1 1 v 11 ^in this c/ountry# / 5 4 6111260 1 2 v 11 be it ^England 'Scotland :Wales or !\Ireland for / 5 4 6111260 1 1 v 11 that m/atter# - / 5 4 6211270 1 1 v 11 ^then I 'think it`s a 'very 'good th\ing# - / 5 4 6211280 1 1 v 11 and "^if !y\ou kn/ow# / 5 4 6211290 1 1 v 11 ^in [ei] !s\easide pl/ace# - / 5 4 6211300 1 1 v 11 that there ^will 'be [ei] !holiday c\amp# - / 5 4 6211310 1 1 v 11 ^come !good w\eather# - / 5 4 6211320 1 1 v 11 ^come b\ad _weather# - / 5 4 6211330 1 2 v 11 and you ^know that a !certain number of people will/ 5 4 6211330 1 1 v 11 be :coming 'in'to 'your \/area# - / 5 4 6211340 1 1 v 11 ^I would have !th\ought# . / 5 4 6211350 1 2 v 11 that ^that would give a !little bit more . / 5 4 6211350 1 1 v 11 sta"!b\/ility# . / 5 4 6211360 1 1 v 11 to ^some of the !seaside pl/aces# . / 5 4 6211370 1 1 v 11 who I ^know are !feeling the dr/aught# / 5 4 6211380 1 1 v 11 ^very 'much ind\eed# - / 5 4 6211390 1 1 v 11 es^p\/ecially# / 5 4 6211400 1 1 v 11 ^over recent y\ears# - / 5 4 6211410 1 1 v 11 now ^if I happen to be "r\ight about th/at# . / 5 4 6211420 1 2 v 11 then I`m "^all for the holiday camps in the / 5 4 6211420 1 1 v 11 loc\ality# - - / 5 4 6311430 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 6311440 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil B/achelor# - / 5 4 6311450 1 1 d 11 ^/\everybody _seems# / 5 4 6311460 1 1 d 11 to have ^left /out# . / 5 4 6311470 1 1 d 11 the "^m\ost imp/ortant# . / 5 4 6311480 1 1 d 11 and "^over!r/iding "!p\oint# / 5 4 6311490 1 1 d 11 ^{\even} ":V\ictor# / 5 4 6311500 1 1 d 11 who((`s)) who`s . ^never been !wrong be"!f\ore# - / 5 4 6311510 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 6311520 1 1 d 11 it . it de^pends . !v/\ery _much in_deed# / 5 4 6311530 1 1 d 11 ^on the lo"!c/aliti((es))# . / 5 4 6311540 1 1 d 11 as has al^ready been :pointed !/out# . / 5 4 6311550 1 1 d 11 it "^probably 'wouldn`t 'suit ":N\ice# . / 5 4 6311560 1 1 d 11 to ^have a !h\oliday _camp# / 5 4 6311570 1 1 d 11 ^sh\oved _down# / 5 4 6311580 1 1 d 11 in the ^Promenade des !/Anglais# - / 5 4 6311590 1 1 d 11 ^it`s "!!tr\ue# / 5 4 6311600 1 1 d 11 that ^h\oliday _camps# / 5 4 6411610 1 1 d 11 "^have a "!w\ay# / 5 4 6411620 1 1 d 11 of ^having an !iron "!c\urtain# / 5 4 6411630 1 1 d 11 de^scend be:tween "!th\em# . / 5 4 6411640 1 1 d 11 and ^human "!l/ife# . / 5 4 6411650 1 1 d 11 out^s/ide# . / 5 4 6411660 1 1 d 11 and . [@] you "^can get !p/assouts# / 5 4 6411670 1 1 d 11 [@] - ^I sup"!p\/ose# . / 5 4 6411680 1 1 d 11 that ^there !is . "l/ocal {^f/ood#}# / 5 4 6411690 1 1 d 11 "^br/ought {^/in#}# / 5 4 6411700 1 1 d 11 and "^s/old# . / 5 4 6411710 1 1 d 11 ^in the lo"!c/ality# / 5 4 6411720 1 1 d 11 there ^are con{t/ented} . "c/ows# - / 5 4 6411730 1 1 d 11 ^blissful "bl/ackberries# - / 5 4 6411740 1 1 d 11 ^smiling !sausages and !s/o _on# - / 5 4 6411750 1 1 d 11 but ^what a'bout [dhi] ":h\ideousness# - / 5 4 6411760 1 1 d 11 that is im"^p\/osed# / 5 4 6411770 1 1 d 11 ^on "!exquisite !!sc\enery# . / 5 4 6411780 1 1 d 11 "^that`s the ":p\oint# - / 5 4 6411790 1 1 d 11 ^if you`ve got !l\ovely {^c\ountry#}# . / 5 4 6411800 1 1 d 11 ^are you "!r\eally {^h\appy#}# . / 5 4 6411810 1 1 d 11 to ^have . a !pretty gr\im _thing# / 5 4 6411820 1 1 d 11 ^like a !h\oliday :c/amp# . / 5 4 6511830 1 1 d 11 ^de!!f\acing it# . / 5 4 6511840 1 1 d 11 ^that`s what you`ve got to ":\ask yours/elf# . / 5 4 6511850 1 1 d 11 as "^\I bel/ieve# - / 5 4 6511860 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 6511870 1 1 f 11 ^Honor B/alfour# / 5 4 6511880 1 1 h 11 ^f\ie _on _you {"^D\enzil#}# . / 5 4 6511890 1 1 h 11 ^t\alking a_bout# / 5 4 6511900 1 1 h 11 ^h\oliday _camps# / 5 4 6511910 1 1 h 11 de^facing the :beautiful !c\ountry_side# . / 5 4 6511920 1 1 h 11 ^what about the ":m\asses {of ^p\eople#}# / 5 4 6511930 1 1 h 11 ^who go !down to the h/oliday _camps# . / 5 4 6511940 1 1 h 11 ^who !might not \/otherwise# / 5 4 6511950 1 2 h 11 ^ever have the !chance of !s\eeing {the ^beautiful / 5 4 6511950 1 1 h 11 c\ountry_side#}# - / 5 4 6511960 1 1 h 11 ^now . !I have never had the :pl\easure# . / 5 4 6511970 1 1 h 11 of ^actually !st\/aying# / 5 4 6511980 1 1 h 11 ^or spending a h\/oliday# / 5 4 6511990 1 1 h 11 ^in Bognor !R\egis# - / 5 4 6512000 1 1 h 11 ^n/\or _have I _had# - / 5 4 6512010 1 2 h 11 ^what I feel might be the rather !d\ubious / 5 4 6512010 1 1 h 11 {^pl\easure#}# . / 5 4 6612020 1 1 h 11 of ^spending a h/oliday in a !!h\oliday _camp# - / 5 4 6612030 1 1 h 11 but from ^what I`m t\/old# . / 5 4 6612040 1 1 h 11 they are ^pretty well 'self-cont/ained# / 5 4 6612050 1 1 h 11 ^not only for food and b/oard# . / 5 4 6612060 1 1 h 11 but for ^entertainment of every k\ind# . / 5 4 6612070 1 1 h 11 and the ^chances ":\are of c/ourse# . / 5 4 6612080 1 1 h 11 that you may ^never in fact :s\ee# / 5 4 6612090 1 1 h 11 the ^beautiful !c\ountryside# . / 5 4 6612100 1 1 h 11 you ^may see !n\othing# / 5 4 6612110 1 1 h 11 but the ^artificial l=akes# / 5 4 6612120 1 1 h 11 and the ^little !p\edal *_cars#;- -*; / 5 4 6612130 1 1 d 11 *^honest :H\onor#* / 5 4 6612140 1 1(h 11 ^now - the !fact \is# / 5 4 6612150 1 1 h 11 on the "^\other h/and# . / 5 4 6612160 1 1 h 11 that ^I`m !not c\astigating# / 5 4 6612170 1 2 h 11 the ^landladies who may !happen to be in Bognor / 5 4 6612170 1 1 h 11 !!R\egis# / 5 4 6612180 1 1 h 11 ^you may be . a!b\ove# / 5 4 6612190 1 1 h 11 ^any {!k\ind} of re!pr\oach# . / 5 4 6612200 1 1 h 11 but ^some [lend] :l\andl/adies# / 5 4 6712210 1 1 h 11 do ^not at"!t\empt# . / 5 4 6712220 1 1 h 11 to ^make "!\any provision for the wet d/ay# . / 5 4 6712230 1 1 h 11 a^part from :s\itting# / 5 4 6712240 1 1 h 11 and ^cleaning up the aspi:d\istra# / 5 4 6712250 1 2 h 11 if you`ve ^nothing better to :do in the / 5 4 6712250 1 1 h 11 :w\/indow# . / 5 4 6712260 1 2 h 11 and it ^seems to me there may be a !f/\ew / 5 4 6712260 1 1 h 11 {^l\essons#}# / 5 4 6712270 1 1 h 11 ^l\/earned# / 5 4 6712280 1 1 h 11 by "^m/\any _seaside re_sorts# . / 5 4 6712290 1 1 h 11 ^if they !/only# / 5 4 6712300 1 1 h 11 ^look and s\/ee# / 5 4 6712310 1 2 h 11 ^how the holiday camps at!tr\act their / 5 4 6712310 1 1 h 11 :v/isitors# . / 5 4 6712320 1 1 h 11 and ^see if they c/an`t# / 5 4 6712330 1 1 h 11 "^woo them a"w\ay# . / 5 4 6712340 1 1 h 11 to ^th/\at ex_tent# . / 5 4 6712350 1 1 h 11 the ^h\oliday {^c\amps#}# / 5 4 6712360 1 1 h 11 may ^w\ell {^d\o#}# / 5 4 6712370 1 1 h 11 "^m\any seaside re:s/orts# / 5 4 6712380 1 1 h 11 a ^very good t\urn# . / 5 4 6712390 1 1 h 11 ^bringing people d\own# / 5 4 6712400 1 1 h 11 to ^see what these :places are l\ike# . / 5 4 6712410 1 2 h 11 and if ^you can offer ![raiv@lri @] :rival / 5 4 6712410 1 1 h 11 at:tr=actions# . / 5 4 6812420 1 1 h 11 ^so much the better for y\ou# / 5 4 6812430 1 1 f 11 ^Victor M=ishcon# - - - / 5 4 6812440 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 6812450 1 1 v 12 in ^case . in ^case there`s :any misunderst/anding#/ 5 4 6812460 1 1 v 11 I ^do want to expl/ain# . / 5 4 6812470 1 1 v 11 that ^Denzil B\/achelor# . / 5 4 6812480 1 1 v 11 ^is !not being . 'unj\ust# - / 5 4 6812490 1 1 v 11 ^what !happened was th/is# . / 5 4 6812500 1 1 v 11 he ^did appl\y to a certain h/oliday _camp# - - / 5 4 6812510 1 1 v 11 they ^took !one look at his g/irth# - / 5 4 6812520 1 1 v 11 and ^he was as!s=essed# . / 5 4 6812530 1 1 v 11 as ^one indiv/idual# . / 5 4 6812540 1 1 v 11 at the ^cost of tw\o# - / 5 4 6812550 1 1 v 11 and ^since that d/ay# / 5 4 6812560 1 2 v 11 ^he has been "!b\itterly opposed to h/oliday / 5 4 6812560 1 1 v 11 _camps# / 5 4 6812570 1 1 v 11 so "^don`t take him s\eriously# / 5 4 6812580 1 1 aud 20 (laughter) / 5 4 6812590 1 1 f 11 *^Colin H/odgkinson#* / 5 4 6812600 1 1 c 12 *there ^is one* - there ^/\is _one _thing# / 5 4 6812610 1 2 c 11 [@:] . if ^one !may be :serious a:gain for :one / 5 4 6812610 1 1 c 11 _m/oment# . / 5 4 6912620 1 2 c 11 al^though I . :don`t necessarily :disagr/ee with / 5 4 6912620 1 1 c 11 _you# . / 5 4 6912630 1 1 c 11 [@: - @] (laughs) . [@] and ^that is th\is# - / 5 4 6912640 1 1 c 11 ^there`re . !some - p/eople# . / 5 4 6912650 1 1 c 11 I ^think !perhaps !m\any p/eople# / 5 4 6912660 1 1 c 11 ^who !may !not be =able# / 5 4 6912670 1 1 c 11 to [@f] . who "^c\ould _not# / 5 4 6912680 1 1 c 11 af^f\ord a h/oliday# . / 5 4 6912690 1 1 c 11 un"^l\ess {they ^w\ent#}# / 5 4 6912700 1 1 c 11 to a ^holiday c\amp# / 5 4 6912710 1 1 c 11 or per^haps they could afford !only !two or thr\ee#/ 5 4 6912720 1 1 aud 20 ooh / 5 4 6912730 1 1(c 11 ^((ah)) y\/es# / 5 4 6912740 1 1 c 11 ^ah y\/es# / 5 4 6912750 1 1 c 11 ^there \/are# . / 5 4 6912760 1 1 c 11 ^old age pensioners to be . to to quote a f\ew# - / 5 4 6912770 1 2 c 13 ^I 'don`t 'know ((well now)) ^don`t [@:] ^I [@] am / 5 4 6912770 1 1 c 13 not an auth!\ority {on this ^s\ubject#}# - / 5 4 6912780 1 2 c 11 but there ^may be :some people who could :not / 5 4 6912780 1 1 c 11 afford . a holiday - :\otherwise# - / 5 4 7012790 1 1 c 11 and ^theref/ore# / 5 4 7012800 1 1 c 12 in ^that . in ^that resp/ect# / 5 4 7012810 1 1 c 11 ^holiday camps :may be . a :good th\ing# - / 5 4 7012820 1 1 c 11 now they`ve ^got to go :s\omewhere# - / 5 4 7012830 1 1 c 11 but - "^th/is# . / 5 4 7012840 1 1 c 11 if ^I may :s\ay s/o# . / 5 4 7012850 1 1 c 11 is a ^great f\eather# / 5 4 7012860 1 1 c 11 in the ^c\ap# . / 5 4 7012870 1 1 c 11 ^of . !private !\enterprise# / 5 4 7012880 1 1 c 11 to be ^able to cre"!\ate# / 5 4 7012890 1 1 c 11 a con^d\ition# . / 5 4 7012900 1 1 c 11 ^f\or {the ^p\eople#}# . / 5 4 7012910 1 1 c 11 ^where they can !go and h\ave# . / 5 4 7012920 1 1 c 11 ^mass entert\ainment# . / 5 4 7012930 1 1 c 11 at a ^very low c\ost# - / 5 4 7012940 1 1 c 11 ^w/\ell# - / 5 4 7012950 1 1 aud 20 ooh / 5 4 7012960 1 1(c 11 - ^and in !m\y o_pinion# - / 5 4 7012970 1 2 c 11 al^though I`ve never !st\ayed at a holiday / 5 4 7012970 1 1 c 11 :c/amp# . / 5 4 7012980 1 1 c 11 "^I think that they are a "!v\ery good :th/ing# / 5 4 7112990 1 1 c 11 for ^that "!very r\eason# - - / 5 4 7113000 1 1 f 11 I I ^just want to ask the audience one qu\estion# / 5 4 7113010 1 1 f 11 ^h/ave you g\ot# / 5 4 7113020 1 1 f 11 a ^large !holiday !camp !h/ere# / 5 4 7113030 1 1 aud 20 ( - yes) / 5 4 7113040 1 1(f 11 ^y\es# / 5 4 7113050 1 1 f 11 ^all r/ight# / 5 4 7113060 1 1 f 11 ^thank you very m\uch# . / 5 4 7113070 1 1 f 11 ^yes we !go on to the next qu\estion# / 5 4 7113080 1 3 II 20 (is it not time that fixed penalties and fines / 5 4 7113080 1 2 II 20 should be imposed in magistrates` courts throughout/ 5 4 7113080 1 1 II 20 the country) / 5 4 7113090 1 2 f 11 we`ve got ^two minutes l\eft in which to answer / 5 4 7113090 1 1 f 11 this :qu/estion# / 5 4 7113100 1 1 f 11 ^Victor M\ishcon# / 5 4 7113110 1 1 v 11 ((well)) ^very qu\ickly th/en# . / 5 4 7113120 1 1 v 11 you ^kn/ow# . / 5 4 7113130 1 1 v 11 there "^\are {^fixed p\enalties#}# / 5 4 7113140 1 1 v 11 there`s a ^maximum and a m\inimum# - / 5 4 7113150 1 1 v 11 and ^quite /obviously# / 5 4 7113160 1 1 v 11 ^what you`ve !g\ot to d/o# / 5 4 7213170 1 1 v 11 in ^\each c/ase# / 5 4 7213180 1 1 v 11 is to . "^l\ook# . / 5 4 7213190 1 1 v 11 at the ^c\ase in :fr/ont of _you# / 5 4 7213200 1 1 v 11 and the ^p\eople in :fr/ont of _you# . / 5 4 7213210 1 1 v 11 and de^cide within your !minimum and :m=aximum# / 5 4 7213220 1 1 v 11 ^what to d\o# . / 5 4 7213230 1 1 v 11 the "^thing to :d/o# / 5 4 7213240 1 2 v 11 is to per^suade magistrates to be a !little bit / 5 4 7213240 1 1 v 11 con:s\istent# . / 5 4 7213250 1 1 v 11 but ^don`t "f\ix a fine or a _p/enalty# / 5 4 7213260 1 1 v 11 you ^can`t d\o it# - / 5 4 7213270 1 1 f 11 ^Denzil _B/achelor# / 5 4 7213280 1 2 d 11 ^I think there should be "!fixed penalties and / 5 4 7213280 1 1 d 11 :f\/ines# . / 5 4 7213290 1 1 d 11 ^but that they should be re"!l/ated# . / 5 4 7213300 1 1 d 11 pre"^c\isely# / 5 4 7213310 1 1 d 11 to the ^incomes 'of of:f\enders# . / 5 4 7213320 1 2 d 11 ^such a pro"!portion of a man`s :weekly or :monthly/ 5 4 7213320 1 1 d 11 \earnings# . / 5 4 7213330 1 1 d 11 I be^lieve 'that`s 'done in H\olland# - / 5 4 7213340 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 7313350 1 1 f 11 ^Colin _H/odgkinson# / 5 4 7313360 1 1 c 11 I en^tirely agr/ee# . / 5 4 7313370 1 1 c 11 with ^both . those two \answers# . / 5 4 7313380 1 1 c 11 but I ^think !one "\other _thing# . / 5 4 7313390 1 1 c 11 and ^that is that the po!l/ice# / 5 4 7313400 1 1 c 11 ^should be all/owed# / 5 4 7313410 1 1 c 11 there ^should be a !fixed f/ine# . / 5 4 7313420 1 1 c 11 for ^people who have 'parked their :c=ars# / 5 4 7313430 1 1 c 11 in ^big industrial c\ities# . / 5 4 7313440 1 1 c 11 ^and that the po!l\ice# / 5 4 7313450 1 1 c 11 should be al^l\owed# / 5 4 7313460 1 1 c 11 to ^l\eave# / 5 4 7313470 1 1 c 11 a ^b\ooking _ticket# / 5 4 7313480 1 1 c 11 ^\on the c/ar# . / 5 4 7313490 1 1 c 11 and the ^man that !g\oes in# / 5 4 7313500 1 1 c 11 and ^pays the . [@: @] the the :f=ine# . / 5 4 7313510 1 1 c 11 ^to the pol=ice _court# / 5 4 7313520 1 1 c 11 ^thus . [@] re!l\easing# / 5 4 7313530 1 1 c 11 a "^great many po:l/ice# / 5 4 7313540 1 1 c 11 from the ^streets of our :cities of this c\ountry# / 5 4 7313550 1 1 f 11 ^Honor _B/alfour# / 5 4 7413560 1 1 h 11 as ^far as ":\I`m conc/erned# / 5 4 7413570 1 1 h 11 and ^my !c\ar is con:c/erned# / 5 4 7413580 1 1 h 11 it ^always /\is a _fixed _fine# / 5 4 7413590 1 1 h 11 ^it`s the !m\aximum# / 5 4 7413600 1 1 aud 20 ( - laughter) / 5 4 7413610 1 1 f 11 ^oh !what a 'sad st\ory# . / 5 4 7413620 1 1 f 11 ^can`t you even get aw/ay with it# . / 5 4 7413630 1 1 h 11 I`ve ^tr\ied# / 5 4 7413640 1 1 h 11 ^\often# / 5 4 7413650 1 1 h 11 ((and)) it ^never w=orks# - - / 5 4 7413660 1 1 f 11 ^anybody !=else# . / 5 4 7413670 1 1 f 11 ^n=o# *-* / 5 4 7413680 1 1 f 11 ^y\es {^Victor M\ishcon#}# / 5 4 7413690 1 2 v 11 *^well* - - I I I I "!do want to :make this point / 5 4 7413690 1 1 v 11 "!awfully quickly ag/ain# - / 5 4 7413700 1 1 v 11 it "^isn`t a question only of a f/ine# / 5 4 7413710 1 2 v 11 ^somebody has :asked in this question about a / 5 4 7413710 1 1 v 11 p\enalty# - / 5 4 7413720 1 1 ? 11 ((^y\es))# / 5 4 7413730 1 1(v 11 and "^d\on`t# / 5 4 7413740 1 1 v 11 for ^heaven`s :s=ake# . / 5 4 7413750 1 1 v 11 be^lieve !all you read in the pr\ess# / 5 4 7513760 1 1 v 11 a^bout the !injustice between :two c\ourts# . / 5 4 7513770 1 1 v 11 you`ve ^got to !b\e in the c/ourt# . / 5 4 7513780 1 1 v 11 ^kn\ow about the :c/ase# / 5 4 7513790 1 1 v 11 be^fore you can de!c\ide this sort of :th/ing# . / 5 4 7513800 1 1 v 11 and ^I am re!f\erring of :c/ourse# . / 5 4 7513810 1 1 v 11 to a ^certain :g=entleman# / 5 4 7513820 1 1 v 11 who ^writes in a !certain !Sunday n=ews_paper# / 5 4 7513830 1 1 v 11 but I wouldn`t "^dare mention his n\ame# - / 5 4 7513840 1 1 aud 20 (applause) / 5 4 7513850 1 1 f 11 ^well we . we !we must stop :h/ere# / 5 4 7513860 1 1 f 11 ^thank you very much to the :t/eam# / 5 4 7513870 1 1 f 11 and ^m\ay I _say# / 5 4 7513880 1 1 f 11 we`ve been "^w\ell rewarded# / 5 4 7513890 1 1 f 11 by our ^visit to !Bognor !R/egis# . / 5 4 7513900 1 1 f 11 ^holiday camp or "n\o# . / 5 5 1 10 1 1 a 11 our ^audience comes !not only from :P\/ensford# . / 5 5 1 20 1 2 a 11 which was a ^mining village until a !year or two / 5 5 1 20 1 1 a 11 ag/o# . / 5 5 1 30 1 1 a 11 but ^also from :neighbouring v/illages# / 5 5 1 40 1 1 a 11 a ^few miles :south of Br\istol# / 5 5 1 50 1 1 a 11 with such de"^lectable n/ames# / 5 5 1 60 1 1 a 11 as "^Stanton Dr/ew# / 5 5 1 70 1 1 a 11 and ^Norton M\alreward# - - / 5 5 1 80 1 1 a 11 we ^also have some :rather de!lectable !n\ames# / 5 5 1 90 1 1 a 11 on the ^t\eam# - / 5 5 1 100 1 1 a 11 ^Anthony Wedgwood :B/enn# / 5 5 1 110 1 2 a 11 ^Labour Member of :Parliament for Bristol . South / 5 5 1 110 1 1 a 11 /East# - / 5 5 1 120 1 1 a 11 [@:] ^Christopher Ch/ataway# / 5 5 1 130 1 2 a 11 Con^servative Member of Parliament for :Lewisham / 5 5 1 130 1 1 a 11 N/orth# - / 5 5 1 140 1 1 a 11 ^Frank B/yers# / 5 5 1 150 1 2 a 11 ^Liberal candidate in the :recent :by-election at / 5 5 1 150 1 1 a 11 :Bolton :=East# - / 5 5 1 160 1 1 a 11 and ^finally Lord B=oothby# / 5 5 1 170 1 2 a 11 who ^went !qu\ietly {to the ^House of / 5 5 1 170 1 1 a 11 L\ords#}# *- - - / 5 5 1 180 1 1 a 11 ^n=ow#;- - -*; / 5 5 1 190 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter and applause)* / 5 5 1 200 1 1 a 11 ^may we have [dhi] !f\irst _question {^pl=ease#}# / 5 5 1 210 1 1 a 11 ^fr=om# / 5 5 2 220 1 1 d 11 - ^Mrs Betty Sw\ann# / 5 5 2 230 1 1 a 11 Mrs ^Betty Sw\ann# / 5 5 2 240 1 1 d 11 it is ^said that !every /Englishman# / 5 5 2 250 1 1 d 11 ^wishes to live like a l\ord# . / 5 5 2 260 1 1 d 11 ^foreigners say we are :\indolent# - / 5 5 2 270 1 1 d 11 could ^this be the r/eason# / 5 5 2 280 1 1 a 11 it is . it is ^said that !every \Englishman# / 5 5 2 290 1 1 a 11 ^wishes to live like a "l\ord# - / 5 5 2 300 1 1 a 11 ^foreigners say we are ":\indolent# - / 5 5 2 310 1 1 a 11 ^could this be the r/eason# - - / 5 5 2 320 1 1 a 11 ^Lord B\oothby# / 5 5 2 330 1 1 b 11 ^w\ell# / 5 5 2 340 1 1 b 11 if if ^anybody :thinks that :lords are !\/idle# . / 5 5 2 350 1 1 b 11 they`ve ^got another !thought !c\oming to them# - / 5 5 2 360 1 1 b 11 ^I`ve done about "!four times as much w\ork# / 5 5 3 370 1 1 b 11 ^since I became a :l\ord# / 5 5 3 380 1 1 b 11 as ^\/ever I _did# / 5 5 3 390 1 1 b 11 when I was a ^member of the House of !!C\ommons# - / 5 5 3 400 1 2 b 11 and I was a ^member of the :House of Commons for a / 5 5 3 400 1 1 b 11 . :very long :t\ime# - / 5 5 3 410 1 1 b 11 of "^c\ourse {^every !\Englishman#}# / 5 5 3 420 1 1 b 11 "^w\ishes to live like a l/ord# - / 5 5 3 430 1 1 b 11 because ^lords are !very !splendid !!p\eople# - - -/ 5 5 3 440 1 1 b 11 and "^well worth :living :[l\ai]# / 5 5 3 450 1 1 b 11 ^l\ike# / 5 5 3 460 1 1 b 11 but it would be an il"^l/\usion {to sup^p/\ose#}# -/ 5 5 3 470 1 1 b 11 that ^lords don`t w\ork# . / 5 5 3 480 1 1 b 11 they "^work like \anything# . / 5 5 3 490 1 1 b 11 and they`re "^\I th/ink# / 5 5 3 500 1 1 b 11 they`re ^very much brighter than c\ommoners# / 5 5 3 510 1 1 aud 20 ( - - - laughter) / 5 5 3 520 1 1 a 11 ^Frank B\yers# / 5 5 3 530 1 1 a 11 ^what do you say about th/at# / 5 5 4 540 1 1 f 11 well ^I`m not s\ure# / 5 5 4 550 1 1 f 11 if we`re dis^cussing lords in :g\/eneral# / 5 5 4 560 1 1 f 11 or ^lords in par"!t\icular# / 5 5 4 570 1 1 f 11 I`m [pe] ^pretty c\ertain# / 5 5 4 580 1 1 f 11 that I don`t I ^wouldn`t like to :l\ive# / 5 5 4 590 1 1 f 11 ^like [bo @] . Lord !!B\oothby _does# - - / 5 5 4 600 1 1 f 11 ^just as we !came !\on# / 5 5 4 610 1 1 f 11 he ^took another p/ill# / 5 5 4 620 1 2 f 12 I ^don`t think I could *- - - ^I couldn`t afford / 5 5 4 620 1 1 f 12 the "!dr\ug _bill# - / 5 5 4 630 2 1 f 21 but [@]* / 5 5 4 640 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 4 630 1 1(f 11 - the i^dea that lords are /idle# / 5 5 4 650 1 1 f 11 is ^absolutely untr\ue# . / 5 5 4 660 1 1 f 11 I ^saw B/ob# / 5 5 4 670 1 1 f 11 ^h\urrying through this d/oor# / 5 5 4 680 1 1 f 11 at ^=one _mile an _hour just _now# . / 5 5 4 690 1 1 f 11 ^n/\o# / 5 5 4 700 1 1 f 11 he was ^putting !everything he`d g\ot into it# / 5 5 4 710 1 1 a 11 ( - - laughs) ^Christopher Ch\ataway# / 5 5 4 720 1 1 c 11 ((well)) there`re ^{l\ords} and l\ords# / 5 5 4 730 1 1 c 11 ^\aren`t there# / 5 5 5 740 1 2 c 11 I mean there`re ^lords of the !l\ife _peerage _kind/ 5 5 5 740 1 1 c 11 {for ex^\ample#}# / 5 5 5 750 1 1 c 11 and ((1 syll)) ^lords who are - he!r\editary# / 5 5 5 760 1 2 c 11 but I ^don`t think most [pi:p] _most English people/ 5 5 5 760 1 1 c 11 want to - live like "l\ords th/ese _days# / 5 5 5 770 1 1 c 11 because you`ve . ^only to :l\ook at _some of them# / 5 5 5 780 1 1 c 11 to ^s\ee# / 5 5 5 790 1 2 c 11 what - ^s\ad {^d\owncast} {^cr\eatures {they / 5 5 5 790 1 1 c 11 ^\are#}#}# - / 5 5 5 800 1 1 c 11 and [@] ^\I _wouldn`t# . / 5 5 5 810 1 1 c 11 for a "^m\oment# / 5 5 5 820 1 1 c 11 want ^anybody who didn`t "!w\ant to be a l/ord# / 5 5 5 830 1 1 c 11 to be "^m/\ade a _lord# / 5 5 5 840 1 1 c 11 it ^seems to me "!\awfully _sad# / 5 5 5 850 1 2 c 11 that [@] . ^anybody should be [@] . ":thr\own into / 5 5 5 850 1 1 c 11 this _category {a^gainst their w\ill#}# / 5 5 5 860 1 1 a 11 - ( - laughs) ^Anthony Wedgwood *B\enn# . / 5 5 5 870 1 1 a 11 it`s ^coming near y\ou#* / 5 5 6 880 1 1 e 11 *^well of c\ourse# / 5 5 6 890 1 1 e 11 ^Lord !B\oothby#* . / 5 5 6 900 1 2 e 11 [@m] ^hasn`t had his {es:c\/utcheon} :l\ong / 5 5 6 900 1 1 e 11 en/ough# / 5 5 6 910 1 1 e 11 for the "^bl\ots /on it# / 5 5 6 920 1 1 e 11 to be ^visible at the back of the !!h\all# - / 5 5 6 930 1 2 e 11 ^so that I :don`t know that :he`s a very good / 5 5 6 930 1 1 e 11 !j\udge# . / 5 5 6 940 1 1 e 11 but as a ^matter of fact !!\I _think# / 5 5 6 950 1 1 e 11 that [dhi] . this ^th\eory# / 5 5 6 960 1 1 e 11 that ^\everybody wants to live like a l/ord# / 5 5 6 970 1 1 e 11 is a ^theory spread :by the !!l\ords# / 5 5 6 980 1 1 e 11 ^that`s my own sus!p\icion# . / 5 5 6 990 1 1 e 11 I ^think they per!f\orm in our soc/iety# . / 5 5 6 1000 1 1 e 11 a ^r/ole# / 5 5 6 1010 1 1 e 11 in ^s\ome w/ays# / 5 5 6 1020 1 1 e 11 ^rather like those performed by . :f\ilm _stars# / 5 5 6 1030 1 1 e 11 in ^\other soc/ieties# . / 5 5 6 1040 1 1 e 11 and ^quite h\onestly# . / 5 5 6 1050 1 1 e 11 ^if the alt\ernative# / 5 5 6 1060 1 1 e 11 is ^reading about Lord :Boothby`s p\ills# / 5 5 7 1070 1 1 e 11 or E^lizabeth :Taylor`s !t\eeth# - / 5 5 7 1080 1 1 e 11 and the ^trouble that caused with Cleop/atra# . / 5 5 7 1090 1 1 e 11 "^I think I would ":r\/ather# . / 5 5 7 1100 1 1 e 12 ^get !m\y _[@] - ^my [@m ?] !g\ossip column n/ews# / 5 5 7 1110 1 1 e 11 a^bout the !f\ilm st/ars# / 5 5 7 1120 1 1 e 11 than the ^House of !P\eers# / 5 5 7 1130 1 1 e 11 but then I`m [@:] I`m ^sp\ecial in this re_gard# / 5 5 7 1140 1 1 a 11 ( - - - laughs) ^well we kn\ow {^y\es#}# . / 5 5 7 1150 1 1 a 11 *^Lord B\oothby#* / 5 5 7 1160 1 1 b 11 ^well *I would* . "!just like to :\add# / 5 5 7 1170 1 1 b 11 that [a:] I ^do take p/ills# / 5 5 7 1180 1 2 b 11 but I ^took them when I was in the :House of / 5 5 7 1180 1 1 b 11 :C\ommons# - / 5 5 7 1190 1 2 b 12 and they was ^even more [n] . they were ^even more / 5 5 7 1190 1 1 b 12 :necessary th/en# - / 5 5 7 1200 1 1 b 11 I`m ^not "s/ad# . / 5 5 7 1210 1 1 b 11 I`m ^not "d/owncast# - / 5 5 7 1220 1 1 b 11 and I "^do own a Mini m\inor# / 5 5 8 1230 1 1 e 21 ( - - - laughter and applause) ^do [@m] - / 5 5 8 1240 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 5 5 8 1250 1 1 a 11 ^Frank B\yers# . / 5 5 8 1260 1 1 a 11 ^come \on# / 5 5 8 1270 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# / 5 5 8 1280 1 1 f 11 I ^just wanted to say to :Tony Wedgwood B/enn# / 5 5 8 1290 1 1 f 11 that ^I think that :h\alf a _lord# / 5 5 8 1300 1 1 f 11 is ^better than n\o _lord# / 5 5 8 1310 1 1 a 20 *((3 to 4 sylls))* / 5 5 8 1320 1 1 e 11 *do ^those blood* t\onics# / 5 5 8 1330 1 2 e 11 ^actually produce a :change in the "!c\olour {of / 5 5 8 1330 1 1 e 11 your ^bl\ood {as ^w\ell#}#}# / 5 5 8 1340 1 1 e 11 ^B/ob# / 5 5 8 1350 1 1 e 11 is ^this what you are trying to t/ell us# / 5 5 8 1360 1 1 b 11 - ^shortly after I was :\/elevated# / 5 5 8 1370 1 1 b 11 I ^cut myself :sh\aving# / 5 5 8 1380 1 1 b 11 and the ^blood 'was definitely !bl\/ue#;*-; / 5 5 8 1390 1 1 b 11 but [@] - ^otherwise I - - can`t ((2 s\ylls))#* / 5 5 9 1400 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 9 1410 1 1 a 11 - - - ^all r\ight# - / 5 5 9 1420 1 2 a 11 well we ^can`t go on with !th\is _bit of _fun much / 5 5 9 1420 1 1 a 11 l/onger# / 5 5 9 1430 1 1 a 11 we ^go on to the !next question fr=om# / 5 5 9 1440 1 1 g 11 Mrs ^D E "V\eazey# / 5 5 9 1450 1 1 a 11 Mrs ^D E V\eazey# / 5 5 9 1460 1 2 g 11 ^what are the suggestions of the :members of the / 5 5 9 1460 1 1 g 11 t/eam# . / 5 5 9 1470 1 1 g 11 on pre^paring for ret\irement# / 5 5 9 1480 1 2 a 11 ( - laughs) ^what are the sug:gestions of the / 5 5 9 1480 1 1 a 11 :members of the :t/eam# / 5 5 9 1490 1 1 a 11 on pre^paring for re"!t\irement# - / 5 5 9 1500 1 1 a 11 ^who`s heading for re"t\irement# / 5 5 9 1510 1 1 aud 20 ( - - - laughter) / 5 5 9 1520 1 1(a 11 ^\Anthony# / 5 5 9 1530 1 1 a 11 ^come /on# / 5 5 9 1540 1 2 e 11 ^well you know it`s !f\unny you should ask this / 5 5 9 1540 1 1 e 11 qu/estion# / 5 5 10 1550 1 1 e 11 be^cause - - !I have a - - :h\/obby# . / 5 5 10 1560 1 1 e 11 which I de^veloped about a :year ag=o# / 5 5 10 1570 1 1 e 11 I be^gan in New !Y\ork# / 5 5 10 1580 1 1 e 11 when I ^saw in the front "p\age# / 5 5 10 1590 1 1 e 11 of the ^New York "t\elephone dir/ectory# - / 5 5 10 1600 1 1 e 11 a ^list of !every possible . combin/ation# / 5 5 10 1610 1 1 e 11 of "^c\alendars# / 5 5 10 1620 1 2 e 11 you know there`re ^only [s] . fourteen sorts of / 5 5 10 1620 1 1 e 11 y/ears# - / 5 5 10 1630 1 2 e 11 ^years that begin on . :Monday the first of / 5 5 10 1630 1 1 e 11 J/anuary# / 5 5 10 1640 1 1 e 11 ^Tuesday the first of :January and s/o on# . / 5 5 10 1650 1 1 e 11 ((for [dh])) ^s\/even# / 5 5 10 1660 1 1 e 11 and then ^s\even /of them# / 5 5 10 1670 1 1 e 11 the ^same for !l\eap _years# - / 5 5 10 1680 1 1 e 11 and I ^had this ph\/otographed# - / 5 5 10 1690 1 1 e 11 and I "^cut \out a y/ear# / 5 5 10 1700 1 1 e 11 and I ^now have a "d\/iary# . / 5 5 10 1710 1 1 e 11 with a ^separate y/ear# / 5 5 10 1720 1 1 e 11 going ^up to my hundredth :b\irthday# / 5 5 10 1730 1 1 e 11 in ^twenty twenty-!f\ive# - / 5 5 10 1740 1 1 e 11 and ^into this d/iary# / 5 5 10 1750 1 1 e 11 I am ^p\/utting# . / 5 5 10 1760 1 1 e 11 ^all the inform/ation# . / 5 5 11 1770 1 1 e 11 which I "^kn\ow {to be cor^r\ect#}# . / 5 5 11 1780 1 1 e 11 for ex^=ample# . / 5 5 11 1790 1 1 e 11 my ^seventy-fifth b\irthday# / 5 5 11 1800 1 1 e 11 is the ^year !two th\ousand# / 5 5 11 1810 1 2 e 12 my . ^children will be . my ^babe in arms will be / 5 5 11 1810 1 1 e 12 :fifty-n\ine# / 5 5 11 1820 1 1 e 11 on my ^eighty-ninth !b\irthday# / 5 5 11 1830 1 1 e 11 and ^s/o on# - / 5 5 11 1840 1 1 e 11 and - ^I find that if you pro":j\ect# . / 5 5 11 1850 1 1 e 11 "^known "trends "!f\/orward# - / 5 5 11 1860 1 1 e 11 you ^realize that life is ":much more pred/ictable#/ 5 5 11 1870 1 1 e 11 than you "^r\ealize# - / 5 5 11 1880 1 1 e 11 and oc^casionally I !sit down at h\ome# / 5 5 11 1890 1 1 e 11 and I ^open my d\iary# . / 5 5 11 1900 1 1 e 11 for the year ^two thousand and fift/een# - / 5 5 11 1910 1 1 e 11 when ^I shall be ninety - !n\/inety# - / 5 5 11 1920 1 1 e 11 and I ^s\ay to my_self# / 5 5 11 1930 1 1 e 11 ^what shall I be "d\/oing# / 5 5 11 1940 1 1 e 11 ^this !!y\ear# - / 5 5 11 1950 1 1 e 11 and it`s by . ^r\ealizing# / 5 5 11 1960 1 1 e 11 that I`ve ^n\o plans for th/at _year# . / 5 5 12 1970 1 1 e 11 that ^I can de!velop those :h\obbies# / 5 5 12 1980 1 1 e 11 ^th\is y/ear# . / 5 5 12 1990 1 1 e 11 which will ^give me a !r\ich# - / 5 5 12 2000 1 1 e 11 ^ninth dec/ade# / 5 5 12 2010 1 1 e 11 which would ^\/otherwise# - / 5 5 12 2020 1 1 e 11 be ^very dull and b\oring# . / 5 5 12 2030 1 1 e 11 and ^I think this is the !!only p\ossible _way# / 5 5 12 2040 1 1 e 11 of pre^paring for ret/irement# . / 5 5 12 2050 1 1 e 11 is to "^c\/ontemplate# / 5 5 12 2060 1 1 e 11 the the "^acres of b\oredom# / 5 5 12 2070 1 1 e 11 that ^lie a!h\/ead# . / 5 5 12 2080 1 1 e 11 when you`ve ^still got your health and str\ength# / 5 5 12 2090 1 1 a 11 ^sounds "t\erribly {de^pr\essing#} to m/e# / 5 5 12 2100 1 1 a 11 ^th/at# . / 5 5 12 2110 1 1 a 11 ^Lord B\oothby# / 5 5 12 2120 1 1 b 11 - - for ^m/e# / 5 5 12 2130 1 1 b 11 the ^only form of ret/irement# / 5 5 12 2140 1 1 b 11 is "^d\eath# *- -* / 5 5 12 2150 1 1 b 11 and I`m ^not preparing for :th\at# +- - -+ / 5 5 12 2160 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* +(laughter)+ / 5 5 12 2170 1 1(b 11 I ^only hope it`s !quick when it c/omes# / 5 5 12 2180 1 1 b 11 and I ^hope it doesn`t come for a :long t/ime# / 5 5 13 2190 1 1 b 11 but I`m pre^pared to 'let it r\ip# - - / 5 5 13 2200 1 1 b 11 and I a^gree en"t\irely# / 5 5 13 2210 1 2 b 11 with a a ^very old :friend of :mine Sir :Thomas / 5 5 13 2210 1 1 b 11 :B\/eecham# - / 5 5 13 2220 1 1 b 11 I ^asked h=im# / 5 5 13 2230 1 1 b 11 ^some time ag=o# / 5 5 13 2240 1 1 b 11 if he ^ever intended to ret/ire# - / 5 5 13 2250 1 1 b 11 and he is a ^good "ripe . :\eighty [i]# / 5 5 13 2260 1 1 b 11 or ^eighty-!one n\ow# / 5 5 13 2270 1 1 b 11 and he ^said if I re:t/ired# / 5 5 13 2280 1 1 b 11 I ^sh\ould be d/ead# / 5 5 13 2290 1 1 b 11 ^in a w\eek# - - / 5 5 13 2300 1 1 b 11 and ^I a!gree with him ent\irely# . / 5 5 13 2310 1 1 b 11 I ^n\ever intend to ret/ire# . / 5 5 13 2320 1 1 b 11 un^til I`m carted \out# / 5 5 13 2330 1 1 aud 20 ( - - *-* laughter) / 5 5 13 2340 1 1 a 11 *^Frank B\yers#* / 5 5 13 2350 1 1 f 11 well I ^think !Tony Wedgwood B/enn# / 5 5 13 2360 1 1 f 11 has ^proved ton/ight# / 5 5 14 2370 1 1 f 11 that he`s by ^f\ar# / 5 5 14 2380 1 2 f 11 the ^most !forward-looking :member of the !L\abour / 5 5 14 2380 1 1 f 11 _Party# *- - - / 5 5 14 2390 1 1 f 11 but it`s a ^pretty depressing !\exercise# / 5 5 14 2400 1 1 f 11 ^looking !th\at _far a_head#;- -*; / 5 5 14 2410 1 1 f 11 I think ^m\y adv/ice# - / 5 5 14 2420 2 1 f 21 on / 5 5 14 2430 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 14 2420 1 1(f 11 ^preparation for re:t/irement# / 5 5 14 2440 1 1 f 11 is "^don`t "!d\o _so# . / 5 5 14 2450 1 1 f 11 "^don`t ret\ire# - / 5 5 14 2460 1 1 f 11 I I ^think ret/irement# / 5 5 14 2470 1 1 f 11 has ^killed !many more !p\eople# - / 5 5 14 2480 1 1 b 11 ^hear *h\ear#* / 5 5 14 2490 1 1 f 11 *[@]* than a ^lot . lot of people :r\ealize# - / 5 5 14 2500 1 1 f 11 if you ^h/ave to# / 5 5 14 2510 1 1 f 11 ^then you want to get an!other /interest# - / 5 5 14 2520 1 1 f 11 [@] a ^l\ong t/ime# / 5 5 14 2530 1 1 f 11 be^fore this forced retirement comes ab\out# - / 5 5 14 2540 1 1 f 11 and a^part from th/at# / 5 5 14 2550 1 1 f 11 I would ^get a "jolly good ":life p=olicy# . / 5 5 14 2560 1 1 f 11 and a ^jolly good p\ension# / 5 5 15 2570 1 1 a 11 ^jolly g\ood# / 5 5 15 2580 1 1 a 11 ((this)) . ^Christopher Ch\ataway# / 5 5 15 2590 1 1 c 11 but ^that`s all very w\ell# / 5 5 15 2600 1 1 c 11 but a ^lot of people do "h\ave to re_tire# - / 5 5 15 2610 1 1 c 11 ^whether it`s right or wr\ong# / 5 5 15 2620 1 1 c 11 and ^I think it`s :wr\ong# - / 5 5 15 2630 1 1 c 11 ^all sorts of p/eople# / 5 5 15 2640 1 2 c 11 do "^have to give up their "!j\ob {at the ^age of / 5 5 15 2640 1 1 c 11 s\ixty#}# / 5 5 15 2650 1 1 c 11 and I sup^pose there`re really !thr\ee _things# / 5 5 15 2660 1 1 c 11 you ^have to to . dec/ide# - - / 5 5 15 2670 1 1 c 11 ^somewhere to "l\ive# - / 5 5 15 2680 1 1 c 11 ^something to "live \on# - / 5 5 15 2690 1 1 c 11 and a^bove /all# / 5 5 15 2700 1 1 c 11 ^something to ":d\o# - / 5 5 15 2710 1 1 c 11 and [@] . I sup"^p\/ose# / 5 5 15 2720 1 1 c 11 that [dhi] . ^w\ise _person# / 5 5 15 2730 1 1 c 11 who was ^really looking ah\ead# / 5 5 15 2740 1 1 c 11 would [@ - @] ^make up his m\/ind# . / 5 5 15 2750 1 2 c 11 ^what !were the interests that 'he was going to / 5 5 15 2750 1 1 c 11 pur"!s\ue# / 5 5 16 2760 1 1 c 11 at [dhi: . ? w] ^when the day c\ame# / 5 5 16 2770 1 1 c 11 that he ^had to ret\ire# . / 5 5 16 2780 1 1 c 11 ^what [@ . @] ac"t\/ivities# / 5 5 16 2790 1 1 c 11 he ^really was going to undert\ake# - / 5 5 16 2800 1 1 c 11 but of ^c\ourse# . / 5 5 16 2810 1 1 c 11 it "^is "l\udicrous I th/ink# / 5 5 16 2820 1 1 c 11 that we "^sh\ould {in^s\ist#}# / 5 5 16 2830 1 1 c 11 in the ^Civil Service and \elsewhere# - / 5 5 16 2840 1 1 c 11 that ^people should be turned \out# / 5 5 16 2850 1 1 c 11 at the ^age of "s\ixty# - / 5 5 16 2860 1 1 c 11 when you`ve "^\only {to ^look at Bob :B\oothby#}# / 5 5 16 2870 1 1 c 11 on this ^p\/anel# / 5 5 16 2880 1 1 c 11 to ^s\ee a m/an# / 5 5 16 2890 1 2 c 11 who`s ^{\obviously} just coming to ma"!!t\urity {at/ 5 5 16 2890 1 1 c 11 a^bout that \age#}# / 5 5 16 2900 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 16 2910 1 1 f 11 *- - -* ^only j\ust# / 5 5 16 2920 1 1 e 21 I was +^just+ going to / 5 5 17 2930 1 1 a 11 +^y\es#+ . / 5 5 17 2940 1 1 a 11 ^Anthony Wedgwood B\enn# / 5 5 17 2950 1 1 e 11 I mean I`d I`d I ^do a!gr\ee with Lord B/oothby# / 5 5 17 2960 1 2 e 11 that ^nobody would accuse him of :being the / 5 5 17 2960 1 1 e 11 re!tiring !!s\ort# - / 5 5 17 2970 1 1 e 11 and [@] *- -* but ^if you look :f\orward# / 5 5 17 2980 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 17 2990 1 1(e 11 [@ @] ^if you take my [@] :d\iary# / 5 5 17 3000 1 1 e 11 into the ^year two thousand and :twenty-f\ive# / 5 5 17 3010 1 1 e 11 which ^all these chaps have been :g\iggling /at# - / 5 5 17 3020 1 1 e 11 the ^first thing you r\ealize# / 5 5 17 3030 1 1 e 11 is that ^in a"b\out the year two th/ousand# / 5 5 17 3040 1 2 e 11 we shall ^have the 'four 'day 'working / 5 5 17 3040 1 1 e 11 !!m\onth# *-- / 5 5 17 3050 1 1 e 12 and we shall ^have a - - of ^c\ourse we _shall#* / 5 5 17 3060 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 17 3070 1 1(e 11 there`ll be [t] a ^thousand million :Chin/ese# / 5 5 17 3080 1 1 e 11 and "^hours and "hours of the d/ay# / 5 5 18 3090 1 1 e 11 when ^people "frankly "won`t have to !w\ork# - / 5 5 18 3100 1 1 e 11 and ^quite "s\eriously# / 5 5 18 3110 1 1 e 11 the ^problem of "l\eisure# / 5 5 18 3120 1 1 e 11 and of ^edu"!c\ation {for ^l\eisure#}# . / 5 5 18 3130 1 1 e 11 is ^something that !only . comes :h\/ome to _you# / 5 5 18 3140 1 1 e 11 when you "^do project your /eyes# / 5 5 18 3150 1 1 e 11 be^yond the next b\udget# . / 5 5 18 3160 1 1 e 11 and the ^next el\ection# . / 5 5 18 3170 1 1 e 11 to ^see what "!is happening to our soc\iety# . / 5 5 18 3180 1 1 e 11 and ^realize how ":v\ital it is# / 5 5 18 3190 1 1 e 11 to ^spend "!more on edu:c\ation# . / 5 5 18 3200 1 1 e 11 ^n\/ow# . / 5 5 18 3210 1 2 e 11 ^so that our !children can :not only be ":fit for / 5 5 18 3210 1 1 e 11 the . :technical "!w\ork they`ll be d/oing# . / 5 5 18 3220 1 1 e 11 but be . en"^r\iched# / 5 5 18 3230 1 1 e 11 and en"^\abled# / 5 5 18 3240 1 1 e 11 to en^j\/oy# / 5 5 18 3250 1 1 e 11 the ^l\/eisure# / 5 5 18 3260 1 1 e 11 which will ^be their l/ot# . / 5 5 18 3270 1 1 e 11 ^whether they like it [?] or n\ot# / 5 5 18 3280 1 1 a 11 ^Lord B\oothby# / 5 5 19 3290 1 2 b 11 well I would ^just like to :say to :Tony :Wedgwood / 5 5 19 3290 1 1 b 11 B/enn# / 5 5 19 3300 1 1 b 11 that I`ve - "^just beg\un# - / 5 5 19 3310 1 1 b 11 to ^\educate mys/elf# / 5 5 19 3320 1 1 b 11 for the ^l\eisure# - / 5 5 19 3330 1 1 b 11 that I ^know will be m/ine# / 5 5 19 3340 1 1 b 11 for the ^next forty y\ears# *-- / 5 5 19 3350 1 1 b 11 and I I I`m ^taking* !great tr/ouble# / 5 5 19 3360 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 19 3370 1 1(b 11 I`m . ^cultivating new /interests# - / 5 5 19 3380 1 2 b 11 but . as . re^gards what . Chris :Ch\ataway / 5 5 19 3380 1 1 b 11 s/aid# - / 5 5 19 3390 1 1 b 11 I I ^think . there :is an :\answer {you ^kn\ow#}# / 5 5 19 3400 1 1 b 11 you ^may have to give up a particular j\ob# / 5 5 19 3410 1 1 b 11 under some re^t\irement sch/eme# / 5 5 19 3420 1 1 b 11 or ^p\ension sch/eme# / 5 5 19 3430 1 1 b 11 and the ^civil _servants have to g\o I th/ink# - / 5 5 19 3440 1 1 b 11 ^very :s\/oon# . / 5 5 19 3450 1 1 b 11 the ^only !reason b/eing# / 5 5 19 3460 1 1 b 11 that ^otherwise :nobody would ever get pro"m\oted# / 5 5 19 3470 1 1 b 11 and ^nobody would go "!\into the Civil S/ervice# . / 5 5 20 3480 1 1 b 11 but ^in f\act# - / 5 5 20 3490 1 1 b 11 they "^d\o take /on# / 5 5 20 3500 1 1 b 11 ^other j/obs# / 5 5 20 3510 1 1 b 11 as ^soon as they`ve ret\ired# / 5 5 20 3520 1 2 b 11 and the ^only kind of preparation that I would / 5 5 20 3520 1 1 b 11 ":s\eriously [m@] {^m\ake#}# / 5 5 20 3530 1 1 b 11 if I was ^in this "!s\ervice# - / 5 5 20 3540 1 1 b 11 which ^thank God I`m !n=ot# - / 5 5 20 3550 1 1 b 11 would ^be to find - and !th\ink ab/out# . / 5 5 20 3560 1 1 b 11 an^other j/\ob# - / 5 5 20 3570 1 1 b 11 to ^take /on# . / 5 5 20 3580 1 1 b 11 when I was . re^tired from that part\icular _one# / 5 5 20 3590 1 1 a 11 - - ^anybody /else# / 5 5 20 3600 1 1 a 11 *- - ^y\es# . / 5 5 20 3610 1 1 a 11 ^Christopher Ch\ataway#* / 5 5 20 3620 1 1 c 11 *((well)) it`s ^all very w\ell# / 5 5 20 3630 1 1 c 11 if you`re ^senior enough to be made* a "l\/ord# . / 5 5 20 3640 1 1 c 11 [@] . then you [k] you ^have another j\ob# / 5 5 21 3650 1 1 b 11 *dis"^t\inguished enough* {to be ^made a l\ord#}# / 5 5 21 3660 1 3 c 11 *((and it`s - [?i]))* - but I ^mean it`s ((said / 5 5 21 3660 1 2 c 11 that there`re)) !people who [ri] have are re:t\ired/ 5 5 21 3660 1 1 c 11 {at ^s\ixty#}# / 5 5 21 3670 1 1 c 11 ^lower !d\own the _scale# / 5 5 21 3680 1 1 c 11 who ^really "!c\an`t {get an^other j\ob#}# / 5 5 21 3690 1 1 e 11 ^may I \ask {Lord ^B\oothby#}# *.* / 5 5 21 3700 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 5 21 3710 1 1(e 11 ^whether :he hims\elf# / 5 5 21 3720 1 1 e 11 ^takes Sir Thomas Beecham`s p/ills# / 5 5 21 3730 1 1 e 11 or ^n\ot# / 5 5 21 3740 1 1 aud 20 +(laughter)+ / 5 5 21 3750 1 1 a 11 +- - - I ^don`t think you \ought to# - - / 5 5 21 3760 1 1 a 11 I`ve a ^sort of feeling you ":sh\ouldn`t+ ask# / 5 5 21 3770 1 1 b 11 well I`ll ^give you the /answer# / 5 5 21 3780 1 1 b 11 "^c\onstantly# / 5 5 21 3790 1 1 b 11 a^long with many \others# / 5 5 21 3800 1 1 c 11 ^((really)) quite clear that :only "l\ords# / 5 5 21 3810 1 1 c 11 ^whether 'self-admitted or :n\ot# / 5 5 22 3820 1 1 c 11 can ^advertise on the :BB\C# / 5 5 22 3830 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 22 3840 1 1 ? 11 *^y\es# / 5 5 22 3850 1 1 ? 20 I((`d like))* / 5 5 22 3860 1 1 a 11 oh ^n=o# / 5 5 22 3870 1 1 a 11 it ^isn`t only l\ords# / 5 5 22 3880 1 1 a 11 ^Christopher n\o# +-+ / 5 5 22 3890 1 1 a 11 ((a)) ^lot of people do th/at# - / 5 5 22 3900 1 1 c 11 +((I ^don`t kn\ow#))+ / 5 5 22 3910 1 2(a 11 but ^{\I would a_gree with _Frank _Byers} / 5 5 22 3910 1 1(a 11 "d\on`t# - / 5 5 22 3920 1 1 a 11 it`s the ^most over!rated pastime in the w\orld# . / 5 5 22 3930 1 1 a 11 ^I retired !th\irteen _years a_go# / 5 5 22 3940 1 2 a 11 and I`ve ^never [in] been so busy in my / 5 5 22 3940 1 1 a 11 l\ife# - - - / 5 5 22 3950 1 1 a 11 and we ^go on to the next question fr=om# / 5 5 22 3960 1 1 h 11 ^Robert [s\o:z]# / 5 5 22 3970 1 1 a 11 ^Robert [s\o:z]# / 5 5 23 3980 1 1 h 11 ^do the members of the team cons/ider# - / 5 5 23 3990 1 1 h 11 that there is ^any pr\ospect# . / 5 5 23 4000 1 1 h 11 of the ^Labour P/arty# - / 5 5 23 4010 1 1 h 11 being ^able to suppl\y# / 5 5 23 4020 1 1 h 11 an ef^fective oppos\ition# . / 5 5 23 4030 1 1 h 11 in the ^fore'seeable f\uture# - - / 5 5 23 4040 1 1 h 11 ^if n\ot# - / 5 5 23 4050 1 1 h 11 do they ^think that the !Liberal P/arty# . / 5 5 23 4060 1 1 h 11 will be ^able to d\o _so# / 5 5 23 4070 1 1 a 11 ^do the members of the team cons\ider# / 5 5 23 4080 1 1 a 11 that there is ^any pr\ospect# / 5 5 23 4090 1 3 a 11 of the ^Labour Party being :able to sup:ply an / 5 5 23 4090 1 2 a 11 ef:fective 'opposition in the :foreseeable / 5 5 23 4090 1 1 a 11 f\uture# . / 5 5 23 4100 1 1 a 11 ((and)) ^if n\ot# . / 5 5 23 4110 1 1 a 11 do they ^th\ink# / 5 5 23 4120 1 1 a 11 that the "^L\iberal P/arty# / 5 5 23 4130 1 1 a 11 will be ^able to d\o so# / 5 5 23 4140 1 2 a 11 well ^this will give a :chance to !!tw\o members of/ 5 5 23 4140 1 1 a 11 the t/eam# / 5 5 23 4150 1 1 a 11 ^\anyhow# - / 5 5 24 4160 1 1 a 11 [@] ^who`d like to st\art this# / 5 5 24 4170 1 1 a 11 ^Frank B/yers# / 5 5 24 4180 1 1 a 11 ^come /on# / 5 5 24 4190 1 1 a 11 ^you 'lead \off# / 5 5 24 4200 1 1 f 11 ^w/\ell# / 5 5 24 4210 1 1 f 11 I I think it`s a ^very !interesting !qu/\estion# . / 5 5 24 4220 1 1 f 11 [@] I ^didn`t 'put it !d\own# / 5 5 24 4230 1 1 f 11 ^I may s/ay# / 5 5 24 4240 1 1 f 11 ( - - laughs) but of ^c\ourse# / 5 5 24 4250 1 1 f 11 ^I don`t bel/ieve# / 5 5 24 4260 1 1 f 11 that [dhi] ^Labour P/arty# / 5 5 24 4270 1 1 f 11 ^\is going to be /able# / 5 5 24 4280 1 1 f 11 to pro^d/uce# - / 5 5 24 4290 1 1 f 11 [@] an ef"^f\ective oppos/ition# - / 5 5 24 4300 1 1 f 11 [@] for ^many y\ears to c/ome# / 5 5 24 4310 1 1 f 11 ^if !\ever# - / 5 5 24 4320 1 1 f 11 the "^spl\it in the Labour P/arty# / 5 5 24 4330 1 1 f 11 is ^not just on the :question of de"f/ence# . / 5 5 24 4340 1 1 f 11 although ^that`s a very funda"!m\ental one# / 5 5 24 4350 1 1 f 11 and a very "^r\eal /one# / 5 5 24 4360 1 1 f 11 ((and)) a very sin"^c\ere _split# - / 5 5 24 4370 1 2 f 11 they`re ^split on the :question of the / 5 5 24 4370 1 1 f 11 "!l/eadership# - / 5 5 25 4380 1 1 f 11 they`re . ^split on the qu/estion# / 5 5 25 4390 1 1 f 11 as to ^whether Members of "!!P/arliament# / 5 5 25 4400 1 1 f 11 should ^take [@] their "/orders# / 5 5 25 4410 1 1 f 11 from the ^Labour Party "!Conference or !n/ot# - / 5 5 25 4420 1 2 f 11 and they`re ^split on a number of other issues / 5 5 25 4420 1 1 f 11 "!t\oo# - - / 5 5 25 4430 1 1 f 11 and . "^\in these c/ircumstances# / 5 5 25 4440 1 1 f 11 you`ve ^only got to !s\ee# / 5 5 25 4450 1 1 f 11 what`s been ^h\appening in the House of C/ommons# / 5 5 25 4460 1 1 f 11 over the ^last few "!!m\onths# - / 5 5 25 4470 1 1 f 11 [@] ^members aren`t attending de"!b/ates# - / 5 5 25 4480 1 1 f 12 on ^all on ^all s/ides# / 5 5 25 4490 1 1 f 11 ^all p/arties# - / 5 5 25 4500 1 1 f 11 [@:] the the ^st/andard# / 5 5 25 4510 1 1 f 11 ^seems to be going d/own# / 5 5 25 4520 1 1 f 11 ^r/apidly# - / 5 5 25 4530 1 1 f 11 ^and 'you 'are "!n\ot# - / 5 5 25 4540 1 1 f 11 with^in !any fore":s\eeable f/uture# / 5 5 25 4550 1 2 f 11 ^going to get a :really "healthy ef!f\ective / 5 5 25 4550 1 1 f 11 oppos/ition# / 5 5 25 4560 1 1 f 11 which you`ve "^g\ot to h/ave# - / 5 5 26 4570 1 1 f 11 if you`re ^going to "shake the g/overnment# / 5 5 26 4580 1 1 f 11 ^out of its com"!!pl\acency# - - / 5 5 26 4590 1 1 f 11 now the ^Liberal Party "!c\an {pro^d\uce#}# - / 5 5 26 4600 1 1 f 11 ^this effective oppos/ition# / 5 5 26 4610 1 1 f 11 if "^only people will "v/ote# / 5 5 26 4620 1 1 f 11 in suf^f\icient n/umbers# / 5 5 26 4630 1 1 f 11 to ^put !more Liberals !!b\ack# - / 5 5 26 4640 1 1 f 11 but ^let us "!f\ace it# - / 5 5 26 4650 1 1 f 11 ^at the m/oment# - / 5 5 26 4660 1 1 f 11 al^though we got nearly ":tw\o million v/otes# / 5 5 26 4670 1 1 f 11 at the ^last el/ection# / 5 5 26 4680 1 1 f 11 we`ve got "^six Members of !!P\arliament# . / 5 5 26 4690 1 1 f 11 and the ^b\urden of those s/ix# / 5 5 26 4700 1 1 f 11 is tre"^m\endous# - / 5 5 26 4710 1 2 f 11 they`re ^having to do a tre!m\endous amount of / 5 5 26 4710 1 1 f 11 w/ork# - / 5 5 26 4720 1 1 f 11 and . there`re ^very few :\of them# - / 5 5 26 4730 1 1 f 11 and ^I think it r/ests# / 5 5 26 4740 1 1 f 11 with the e"^l\ectorate# / 5 5 26 4750 1 2 f 11 this is ^something which has "g\ot {to be ^put / 5 5 26 4750 1 1 f 11 r\ight#}# / 5 5 27 4760 1 1 f 11 you`ve "^g\ot to have an ef:fective oppos/ition# / 5 5 27 4770 1 2 f 11 if you`re ^going to [haedg] to have good / 5 5 27 4770 1 1 f 11 "g\overnment# . / 5 5 27 4780 1 1 f 11 and the ^L\abour P/arty# / 5 5 27 4790 1 1 f 11 I "^cannot 'see them pro'ducing it :at !\all# / 5 5 27 4800 1 1 a 11 - - ^Anthony Wedgwood B/enn# / 5 5 27 4810 1 1 e 11 ^well of c\ourse# / 5 5 27 4820 1 1 e 11 ^Frank B\yers# / 5 5 27 4830 1 1 e 11 in^v\igorated# / 5 5 27 4840 1 1 e 11 by his e^lectoral de:feat in :B\/olton# / 5 5 27 4850 1 2 e 11 is a ^very [@] - - auth:oritative "!v\oice on / 5 5 27 4850 1 1 e 11 this# - / 5 5 27 4860 1 1 e 11 but ^if you l\ook# / 5 5 27 4870 1 1 e 11 at [t@t] - at the ^c\ountry# / 5 5 27 4880 1 1 e 11 at the at the ^m\oment# / 5 5 27 4890 1 1 e 11 and the ^various . [ait] . :areas of "p\olicy# / 5 5 27 4900 1 1 e 11 of ^course the "only ef"!f\ective# - / 5 5 27 4910 1 1 e 11 po^litical oppos/ition# / 5 5 27 4920 1 1 e 11 is ^coming 'from the Labour :P\arty# . / 5 5 27 4930 1 1 e 11 the ^L\iberal _Party# . / 5 5 27 4940 1 1 e 11 in its econ^\omic p/olicy# - / 5 5 27 4950 1 1 e 11 is ^really ":less forward-l\/ooking# / 5 5 28 4960 1 1 e 11 ^even than the Con:s\ervative _Party# . / 5 5 28 4970 1 1 e 11 the "^b\ulk {of the ^Liberal :P\arty#}# . / 5 5 28 4980 1 1 e 11 on ^\Africa# / 5 5 28 4990 1 1 e 11 they ^d\o# . / 5 5 28 5000 1 1 e 11 a^gr\ee# / 5 5 28 5010 1 1 e 11 ^very !l\argely# / 5 5 28 5020 1 2 e 11 with . a ^lot of what the :L\abour Party((`s)) / 5 5 28 5020 1 1 e 11 s/aid# . / 5 5 28 5030 1 1 e 11 on "^f\oreign p/olicy# / 5 5 28 5040 1 1 e 11 they are as . ^deeply div\ided# / 5 5 28 5050 1 1 e 11 between the uni^lateralists and the /others# . / 5 5 28 5060 1 2 e 13 *^as [dhi] ^as [dhi] ^as the Labour !P\arty / 5 5 28 5060 1 1 e 13 ((is))#* . / 5 5 28 5070 1 1 f 11 *^\oh# / 5 5 28 5080 1 1 f 11 ^\oh# / 5 5 28 5090 1 1 f 11 ^\oh# / 5 5 28 5100 1 1 f 11 ^\oh# / 5 5 28 5110 1 1 f 11 ^\oh#* / 5 5 28 5120 1 1 e 12 +((the)) ^young Liberals of ^c\ourse# . / 5 5 28 5130 1 1 e 22 ^all the ^all the+ / 5 5 28 5140 1 1 ? 11 +^come ((\off))# / 5 5 28 5150 1 1 ? 11 ^come ((\off it))# / 5 5 28 5160 1 1 ? 11 ^come ((\off it))#+ / 5 5 28 5170 1 1 e 11 young ^all the young :L\/iberals# / 5 5 28 5180 1 2 e 11 as like "^most young people in :this country / 5 5 28 5180 1 1 e 11 tod/ay# . / 5 5 28 5190 1 1 e 11 "^most [@ @] po:litically :\active young p/eople# ./ 5 5 28 5200 1 1 e 11 are ^uni!l\ateralist# / 5 5 28 5210 1 1 e 11 and this ap^plies to the Liberal P=arty# . / 5 5 29 5220 1 1 e 11 as ^much as to the !L\abour _Party# *.* / 5 5 29 5230 1 1 f 11 *^n\onsense#* / 5 5 29 5240 1 1(e 11 but you ^kn\ow# / 5 5 29 5250 1 1 e 11 it`s it`s [@] ^\interesting e_nough# / 5 5 29 5260 1 1 e 11 ((even)) it`s a^m\using# / 5 5 29 5270 1 1 e 11 to ^talk about :this in :terms of person/alities# / 5 5 29 5280 1 1 e 11 but ^what is "!!r\eally h/appening# - / 5 5 29 5290 1 1 e 11 is a ^fundamental ch\/ange# / 5 5 29 5300 1 1 e 11 in the "^character of :British !p\olitics# / 5 5 29 5310 1 1 e 11 which ^I for one !w\elcome# - / 5 5 29 5320 1 1 e 11 and [@v] ^as you would ex:p\ect# - / 5 5 29 5330 1 1 e 11 it`s e^m/erging# / 5 5 29 5340 1 1 e 11 ^through the . !L\eft# - - / 5 5 29 5350 1 1 e 11 ^ch\anges in p/olitics# / 5 5 29 5360 1 1 e 11 "^d\on`t emerge through the R/ight# - / 5 5 29 5370 1 1 e 11 they ^work -them . -selves /out# - / 5 5 29 5380 1 1 e 11 ^through the L\eft# - / 5 5 29 5390 1 1 e 11 and ^what is :h\/appening# . / 5 5 29 5400 1 1 e 11 in ^Br\itain tod/ay# - / 5 5 29 5410 1 1 e 11 ^is ['ei] de!m\and# / 5 5 29 5420 1 1 e 11 for an en^tirely new "!f\oreign p/olicy# / 5 5 30 5430 1 1 e 11 ^quite d\ifferent# / 5 5 30 5440 1 1 e 11 from the ^c\old war p/olicy# . / 5 5 30 5450 1 1 e 11 is e^merging "from the "!L/eft# - / 5 5 30 5460 1 1 e 11 ^also a new :attitude to !African qu\estions# / 5 5 30 5470 1 1 e 11 is e^merging . 'from the L/eft# . / 5 5 30 5480 1 1 e 11 and "^\also# / 5 5 30 5490 1 1 e 11 a "^growing realiz:\ation# . / 5 5 30 5500 1 1 e 11 which the ^sp\utnik# / 5 5 30 5510 1 1 e 11 be"^g/\an {to ^put in our !m\inds#}# - / 5 5 30 5520 1 1 e 11 that in the "^world . 'of to!d\ay# - / 5 5 30 5530 1 1 e 11 ^s\ocialism# . / 5 5 30 5540 1 1 e 11 ^as a !means of economic pl\/anning# . / 5 5 30 5550 1 1 e 11 is ^more - ef!f\icient# - / 5 5 30 5560 1 1 e 11 ^than - c\apitalism# - / 5 5 30 5570 1 1 e 11 and this is ^pr=oved# / 5 5 30 5580 1 1 e 11 by the com^p\arison# . / 5 5 30 5590 1 1 e 11 be^tween the . !Eastern European . adv/ance# - / 5 5 30 5600 1 1 e 11 and ^W\estern European {ad^v\ance#}# - / 5 5 30 5610 1 1 e 11 now ^that`s not to say !c=ommunism# / 5 5 30 5620 1 1 e 11 it`s ^something /else# . / 5 5 30 5630 1 1 e 11 but the i^d\ea# / 5 5 31 5640 1 1 e 11 of "^private ":\/enterprise# - / 5 5 31 5650 1 1 e 11 ^offering any "h\ope# - - / 5 5 31 5660 1 1 e 11 to [ei] - com^m\unity# / 5 5 31 5670 1 1 e 11 ^like our :\own# / 5 5 31 5680 1 1 e 11 in the ^world tod/ay# . / 5 5 31 5690 1 1 e 11 is "^gr\adually# / 5 5 31 5700 1 1 e 11 being ^r\/ealized# . / 5 5 31 5710 1 1 e 11 to be . ^out of d\ate# - / 5 5 31 5720 1 2 e 11 now ^this is - causing con!f\usion {on the / 5 5 31 5720 1 1 e 11 ^L\eft#}# - / 5 5 31 5730 1 1 e 11 but it ^str\engthens# / 5 5 31 5740 1 1 e 11 ^my faith in the L/eft# - / 5 5 31 5750 1 1 e 11 ^rather than . in !any w/ay# . / 5 5 31 5760 1 1 e 11 ^sh\aking it# - - - / 5 5 31 5770 1 1 a 11 *^Christopher Ch\ataway#* / 5 5 31 5780 1 1 c 11 *I`ve ^seldom* h\eard a string of s/entences# / 5 5 31 5790 1 1 c 11 that I ^really do bel\ieve# / 5 5 31 5800 1 1 c 11 to . con^tain !!qu\ite so m/any# . / 5 5 31 5810 1 1 c 11 [@ @] ^faulty an\/alyses# / 5 5 31 5820 1 1 c 11 of the ^present situ:\ation# - / 5 5 31 5830 1 1 c 11 [@?] . I I "^d\on`t bel/ieve# / 5 5 31 5840 1 2 c 11 that this ^country is :swinging to / 5 5 31 5840 1 1 c 11 uni:l\/ateralism# / 5 5 31 5850 1 2 c 11 if [@] ^that is what [@] :Anthony Wedgwood Benn / 5 5 31 5850 1 1 c 11 m\eans# / 5 5 32 5860 1 1 c 11 by a - ^great "ch=ange# / 5 5 32 5870 1 1 c 11 and a de"^m=and# / 5 5 32 5880 1 1 c 11 for a "^n=ew# . / 5 5 32 5890 1 1 c 11 ^policy in foreign aff/airs# . / 5 5 32 5900 1 1 c 11 I`m ^sure that it`s a ":very "very small min\ority#/ 5 5 32 5910 1 1 c 11 who ^want to discard . our . [@] def\ences# - / 5 5 32 5920 1 1 c 11 and [@] ^m\y# / 5 5 32 5930 1 1 c 11 [??] . ^p\ersonal op/inion# / 5 5 32 5940 1 1 c 11 ^is that [dhi] !Labour P/arty# / 5 5 32 5950 1 1 c 11 are ^bound to spl\it {be^fore l\ong#}# - - / 5 5 32 5960 1 1 c 11 [@] and that ^this "w\ill# . / 5 5 32 5970 1 1 c 11 be [ei] ^g\ood _thing# / 5 5 32 5980 1 1 c 11 for ^British !p/olitics# / 5 5 32 5990 1 2 c 11 be^cause it will lead to 'an effective / 5 5 32 5990 1 1 c 11 oppos\ition# - / 5 5 32 6000 1 1 c 11 my "^g\uess would b/e# / 5 5 32 6010 1 1 c 11 that be"^fore l/ong# / 5 5 32 6020 1 1 c 11 we ^shall s/ee# / 5 5 32 6030 1 1 c 11 [dhi:] ^G\aitskellite# - / 5 5 32 6040 1 1 c 11 [@] ^w/ing# / 5 5 32 6050 1 1 c 11 of [dhi] ^Labour P/arty# / 5 5 32 6060 1 1 c 11 the "^R\ight Wing of the Labour P/arty# . / 5 5 32 6070 1 1 c 11 "^coming to 'some sort of a :d\eal# / 5 5 33 6080 1 1 c 11 "^with the Liberal P/arty# / 5 5 33 6090 1 1 c 11 and [ei] . ^new opposition em\erging# - / 5 5 33 6100 1 1 c 11 be^cause [@] it "!\is cl/ear# / 5 5 33 6110 1 1 c 11 that [dhi - @] . ^small !L\eft Wing f/action# / 5 5 33 6120 1 1 c 11 ^d\o _speak# / 5 5 33 6130 1 1 c 11 for a a ^min\ority v/iew {on de^f/ence#}# - / 5 5 33 6140 1 1 c 11 ^and [@] . !on [@] socialism t\oo# / 5 5 33 6150 1 2 c 11 because of ^course [@] . "!far from there being a / 5 5 33 6150 1 1 c 11 "!tr\end towards socialism in the w/orld# - / 5 5 33 6160 1 1 c 11 ^{{\every} - !s\ingle} demo"!cr\atic# / 5 5 33 6170 1 1 c 11 ^n\/ation# - / 5 5 33 6180 1 1 c 11 "^\in the w/orld# - / 5 5 33 6190 1 1 c 11 ^has [@] . given !\up# / 5 5 33 6200 1 1 c 11 [@] the i^d\eas of s/ocialism# / 5 5 33 6210 1 2 c 11 that are ^held ((by)) the Left Wing of [dhi] - / 5 5 33 6210 1 1 c 11 Labour P\arty# / 5 5 33 6220 1 1 c 11 and [@] ^one`s !s\een# - / 5 5 33 6230 1 1 c 11 oh ^only !r\ecently# - / 5 5 33 6240 1 2 c 11 [dhi] . "^G\erman {^Socialist P\arty#} {for / 5 5 33 6240 1 1 c 11 ex^\ample#}# - / 5 5 33 6250 1 1 c 11 [@] re^f\orming its/elf# / 5 5 33 6260 1 1 c 11 in the ^way that the Right W/ing# - / 5 5 33 6270 1 1 c 11 would ^l\ike# / 5 5 33 6280 1 2 c 11 [@] to [s] to to to to ^happen in !th\is / 5 5 33 6280 1 1 c 11 _country# . / 5 5 34 6290 1 1 c 11 I`m ^sure that it !w\ill before l/ong# . / 5 5 34 6300 1 1 c 11 and "^wh\en# / 5 5 34 6310 1 1 c 11 that "^d\oes arr/ive# / 5 5 34 6320 1 1 c 11 "^th\en# / 5 5 34 6330 1 2 c 11 there will be the ^possibility of an ef:fective / 5 5 34 6330 1 1 c 11 oppo:s\ition# / 5 5 34 6340 1 1 a 11 ^Lord B\oothby# / 5 5 34 6350 1 1 b 11 ^w=ell# - / 5 5 34 6360 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t th\ink you _know# / 5 5 34 6370 1 2 b 11 that ^Tony Wedgwood Benn can :seriously say that / 5 5 34 6370 1 1 b 11 :personalities - don`t !m\atter# - - / 5 5 34 6380 1 2 b 11 because ^I think they :d\o _matter / 5 5 34 6380 1 1 b 11 {tre^m\endously#}# / 5 5 34 6390 1 1 b 11 in . [po?] (([@])) ^p\olitics tod/ay# / 5 5 34 6400 1 1 b 11 and es^pecially in the :politics of the :L\eft# - -/ 5 5 34 6410 1 1 b 11 ^what has :h\appened is# / 5 5 34 6420 1 1 b 11 that ^c\ertain# - / 5 5 34 6430 1 1 b 11 ^{div\isions} of o!p\inion# / 5 5 34 6440 1 1 b 11 have a^r\isen# / 5 5 34 6450 1 1 b 11 as they ^often d\o# / 5 5 34 6460 1 1 b 11 in the ^party of the L/eft# / 5 5 34 6470 1 1 b 11 the ^Labour P\arty# - - / 5 5 34 6480 1 1 b 11 but ^what has !!{n\ow} ar\isen# / 5 5 34 6490 1 1 b 11 as a re^s\/ult of them# - / 5 5 35 6500 1 1 b 11 is "^bitter internecine str/ife# . / 5 5 35 6510 1 1 b 11 ^ending in "!s\/earing# . / 5 5 35 6520 1 1 b 11 "^p\/ersonal# . / 5 5 35 6530 1 1 b 11 "^h\atreds# - / 5 5 35 6540 1 1 b 11 ^now !I l\unched# / 5 5 35 6550 1 1 b 11 the ^day before y/esterday# / 5 5 35 6560 1 1 b 11 with ^one of the !l\eaders# . / 5 5 35 6570 1 1 b 11 of the ^Labour P/arty# / 5 5 35 6580 1 1 b 11 whose ^name must obviously be kept - :qu\iet# / 5 5 35 6590 1 1 b 11 ^I can`t . re!p\eat it# / 5 5 35 6600 1 1 b 11 but ^he said to m\e# . / 5 5 35 6610 1 1 b 11 he ^s=aid# . / 5 5 35 6620 1 1 b 11 the ^h\atreds# . / 5 5 35 6630 1 1 b 11 in ^our p\arty# . / 5 5 35 6640 1 1 b 11 have ^now become :so "gr\eat# - / 5 5 35 6650 1 1 b 11 ^so "v\icious# - / 5 5 35 6660 1 1 b 12 that ^they [@] they tran^sc\/end# . / 5 5 35 6670 1 1 b 11 "^any div/isions# / 5 5 35 6680 1 1 b 11 about ^policies 'whatso\ever# - / 5 5 35 6690 1 2 b 11 the ^people who are de:termined to get rid of / 5 5 35 6690 1 1 b 11 G/aitskell# / 5 5 35 6700 1 1 b 11 and . of ^his cr/owd# - / 5 5 35 6710 1 1 b 11 [a?e] ^that is their over"!whelming m\otive# . / 5 5 35 6720 1 1 b 11 [dhe] I mean ^nuclear dis!=armament# / 5 5 35 6730 1 1 b 11 and ^all th\at _kind of _thing# / 5 5 35 6740 1 1 b 11 really "^f/\ades {into the ^b\ackground#}# / 5 5 36 6750 1 1 b 11 and ^as for being an :oppo":s\ition# / 5 5 36 6760 1 1 b 11 or ^talking about the :Tory P\arty# - / 5 5 36 6770 1 1 b 11 it ^bores them st\iff# - / 5 5 36 6780 1 1 b 11 "^all they`re de":termined to d\o# / 5 5 36 6790 1 1 b 11 is to ^cut each other`s thr\oats# / 5 5 36 6800 1 2 b 11 and the ^thing has !settled down into an "!iron / 5 5 36 6800 1 1 b 11 div\ision# / 5 5 36 6810 1 2 b 11 of I ^think it is what a :hundred and / 5 5 36 6810 1 1 b 11 sixty-/eight# . / 5 5 36 6820 1 2 b 11 ^versus :seventy-two in the :parliamentary L\abour / 5 5 36 6820 1 1 b 11 _Party# . / 5 5 36 6830 1 1 b 11 ^none of whom will :sp\eak to each _other# / 5 5 36 6840 1 2 b 11 and ^all of whom want to cut each other`s / 5 5 36 6840 1 1 b 11 thr\oats# - / 5 5 36 6850 1 1 b 11 ^now !I think this is a :very bad th\ing# - / 5 5 36 6860 1 1 b 11 ^bad thing for British dem\ocracy# - / 5 5 36 6870 1 1 b 12 I [@] . ^watched I [w@] I`m ^\old e_nough# / 5 5 36 6880 1 2 b 12 to have ^watched the !Labour . the ^L\iberal / 5 5 36 6880 1 1 b 12 _Party# / 5 5 37 6890 1 1 b 11 de^str\oy it_self# . / 5 5 37 6900 1 1 b 11 by the ^Asquith :Lloyd George f\eud# . / 5 5 37 6910 1 1 b 11 it ^seems to me that on a !!far greater sc\ale# - / 5 5 37 6920 1 2 b 11 ex^actly the same thing is happening in the Labour / 5 5 37 6920 1 1 b 11 Party tod\ay# - / 5 5 37 6930 1 2 b 11 I ^think the :Labour Party 'is - de:str\oying / 5 5 37 6930 1 1 b 11 it_self# - / 5 5 37 6940 1 1 b 11 ^quite fr/ankly# - / 5 5 37 6950 1 2 b 11 and I ^think [@:] un:less they can get !r\id of / 5 5 37 6950 1 1 b 11 this# / 5 5 37 6960 1 2 b 11 and I ^don`t see :how they`re :going to r/id of / 5 5 37 6960 1 1 b 11 it# . / 5 5 37 6970 1 1 b 11 ^get r/id of it# - / 5 5 37 6980 1 1 b 11 [@:] . they ^m\ust _split# - / 5 5 37 6990 1 2 b 12 and there ^[ma] they must ^form themselves into / 5 5 37 6990 1 1 b 12 :two separate p\arties# - / 5 5 37 7000 1 1 b 11 ^d\eeply div/ided# . / 5 5 37 7010 1 1 b 11 an "^independent Labour Party of the L/eft# / 5 5 37 7020 1 1 b 11 which ex^\isted# / 5 5 37 7030 1 1 b 11 ^when I first came into the House of C\ommons# . / 5 5 37 7040 1 1 b 11 and an of^ficial Labour Party of the R/ight# / 5 5 38 7050 1 2 b 11 which might "^well tie up 'with the L\iberal / 5 5 38 7050 1 1 b 11 _Party# / 5 5 38 7060 1 1 f 11 ^Frank B\yers# / 5 5 38 7070 1 1 f 11 ^w\ell# / 5 5 38 7080 1 1 f 11 that`s a ^very interesting specu:l\ation# - / 5 5 38 7090 1 1 f 11 [@:m] but of ^c\ourse# / 5 5 38 7100 1 1 f 11 a ^lot of L/abour _people# / 5 5 38 7110 1 1 f 11 are al^{r\eady} coming !\over the rank and f/ile# / 5 5 38 7120 1 1 f 11 ^to the L\iberal _Party# / 5 5 38 7130 1 1 f 11 we ^saw that in the last el/ection# / 5 5 38 7140 1 1 f 11 we`ve ^seen it in the b/y-e_lections# / 5 5 38 7150 1 2 f 11 and we`ve ^seen it in the local !g\overnment / 5 5 38 7150 1 1 f 11 e_lections# - / 5 5 38 7160 1 2 f 11 [@:] ^when the Liberal :Party gets a :great deal / 5 5 38 7160 1 1 f 11 str/onger# / 5 5 38 7170 1 1 f 11 it`s ^p/ossible# / 5 5 38 7180 1 1 f 11 that there ^might be a "deal of some s\ort# / 5 5 38 7190 1 1 f 11 but I "^very much d\oubt# / 5 5 38 7200 1 1 f 11 ^whether it would be a d\eal# / 5 5 38 7210 1 2 f 11 I ^think you`ll find the !Liberal Party coming / 5 5 38 7210 1 1 f 11 /up# - / 5 5 39 7220 1 1 f 11 and [@] ^quite a "!l\ot _more L/abour# / 5 5 39 7230 1 1 f 11 ^coming "!\into it# - / 5 5 39 7240 1 2 f 11 but I ^want to take [@] :Tony Wedgwood B\enn / 5 5 39 7240 1 1 f 11 {^\up#}# / 5 5 39 7250 1 1 f 11 on this . "^n\onsense he t/alked# - / 5 5 39 7260 1 1 f 11 about ^economic "p\olicy# - - / 5 5 39 7270 1 1 f 11 he ^said that the Labour Party`s :economic p/olicy#/ 5 5 39 7280 1 1 f 11 was ^{much more f\orward}-l\ooking# . / 5 5 39 7290 1 1 f 11 well now ^what !\is it# / 5 5 39 7300 1 2 f 11 this is an^\other _thing {on ^which they`re / 5 5 39 7300 1 1 f 11 spl\it#}# / 5 5 39 7310 1 1 f 11 ^this is what clause !!f\our is a_bout# - / 5 5 39 7320 1 1 f 11 they ^can`t make up their m/inds# . / 5 5 39 7330 1 1 f 11 ^whether they want m/ore# / 5 5 39 7340 1 1 f 11 or ^less nationaliz!\ation# . / 5 5 39 7350 1 1 f 11 and ^that`s wh/y# / 5 5 39 7360 1 1 f 11 they ^cannot m/ake# / 5 5 39 7370 1 1 f 11 ef^fective cr/iticism# / 5 5 39 7380 1 1 f 11 ^in the House of !C\ommons# . / 5 5 39 7390 1 1 f 11 now ^let`s \also take /up# / 5 5 39 7400 1 1 f 11 ^this qu/estion# / 5 5 39 7410 1 1 f 11 of the ^uni!l\ateralist _split# / 5 5 40 7420 1 1 f 11 in the ^L\iberal _Party# . / 5 5 40 7430 1 1 f 11 ^this is very :n\aughty# / 5 5 40 7440 1 1 f 11 I don`t ^l\ike this sort of thing from T/ony# . / 5 5 40 7450 1 1 f 11 ^we only had one reso!!l\ution# . / 5 5 40 7460 1 1 f 11 we ^didn`t have !!tw\o# - / 5 5 40 7470 1 1 f 11 that`s what ^th\ey _had# . / 5 5 40 7480 1 1 f 11 and "^on that one resol/ution# / 5 5 40 7490 1 1 f 11 there was an "^eight to :one ma:j\ority# . / 5 5 40 7500 1 1 f 11 in ^favour of the official p\olicy# . / 5 5 40 7510 1 1 f 11 now ^we don`t get over :\our pr/oblems# . / 5 5 40 7520 1 1 f 11 [@:] by ^just having !tw\o resol/utions# / 5 5 40 7530 1 1 f 11 and ^voting different ways on !b\oth of them# / 5 5 40 7540 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 40 7550 1 1 e 11 *[@] ^y\es# / 5 5 40 7560 1 1 e 11 +but you ^kn\ow#+ / 5 5 40 7570 2 1 e 22 [@:]* - [@] . ^[dhi @m] . the / 5 5 40 7580 1 1 a 11 +^\Anthony Wedgwood B/enn#+ / 5 5 40 7570 1 1(e 12 ^p\ersonal {^r\ows#} {^th\ere#}# / 5 5 40 7590 1 1 e 11 ^nobody de:n\ies _this# / 5 5 41 7600 1 1 e 11 but ^what is . im":p\ortant# / 5 5 41 7610 1 1 e 11 and ^\/interesting# / 5 5 41 7620 1 1 e 11 is the po^litical . "m\ovement# . / 5 5 41 7630 1 1 e 11 of our ^t\imes# - / 5 5 41 7640 1 1 e 11 and there`s ^absolutely :no question at !\all# / 5 5 41 7650 1 1 e 11 that ^socialism "in the !w\orld# / 5 5 41 7660 1 1 e 11 ^as a m\ethod {of ^economic :pl\anning#}# - / 5 5 41 7670 1 1 e 11 is "^overtaking c/apitalism# - / 5 5 41 7680 1 1 e 11 ^h/and over !f\ist# *- / 5 5 41 7690 1 1 e 11 and this is [dzha]* . [dh] the ^point \is# / 5 5 41 7700 1 1 f 21 *^democratic socialism* / 5 5 41 7710 1 1(e 11 the ^eco"!nomic "!pl\anning# / 5 5 41 7720 1 1 e 11 which has ^nothing whatso:ever to "d\o# / 5 5 41 7730 1 1 e 11 with [dhi] po^litical ":t\yranny# / 5 5 41 7740 1 1 e 11 that has ^lain be:hind it in the p/ast# / 5 5 41 7750 1 1 e 11 and ^still . lies be:h\ind it# . / 5 5 41 7760 1 1 e 11 to ^s\ome ex_tent {in the ^pr\esent#}# - / 5 5 41 7770 1 1 e 11 but [dhi] . ^[s@u] !Soviet /Union# / 5 5 41 7780 1 1 e 11 is ^spending three times as m=uch# / 5 5 41 7790 1 1 e 11 on edu^c\ation {as ^this c\ountry#}# - / 5 5 41 7800 1 2 e 11 al^though its !standard of ((living)) is half as / 5 5 41 7800 1 1 e 11 !h\igh# - / 5 5 42 7810 1 1 e 11 and with^in about ten or fifteen y\ears# / 5 5 42 7820 1 1 e 11 ^people are going to be :\asking# - / 5 5 42 7830 1 1 e 11 [f@] ^why on !earth it !w/\as# / 5 5 42 7840 1 1 e 11 that ^Britain was allowed to [d] get beh\ind# / 5 5 42 7850 1 2 e 11 and it was be^cause of the never had it so good / 5 5 42 7850 1 1 e 11 phi!l\osophy# - / 5 5 42 7860 1 1 e 11 the ^cold !!w\ar# / 5 5 42 7870 1 2 e 11 on which the "^whole of our defence policy has been/ 5 5 42 7870 1 1 e 11 b\ased# - / 5 5 42 7880 1 1 e 11 is ^now . in'creasingly ir!!r\elevant# / 5 5 42 7890 1 1 e 11 to the ^problems of !Africa and \Asia# - / 5 5 42 7900 1 2 e 11 and ^those who based themselves en"t\irely on the / 5 5 42 7900 1 1 e 11 cold w/ar# . / 5 5 42 7910 1 1 e 11 are ^going to be left be"h\ind# . / 5 5 42 7920 1 1 e 11 I`m ^not a uni!!l\ateralist# - / 5 5 42 7930 1 1 e 11 but I ^think what is !\interesting# / 5 5 42 7940 1 1 e 11 and im^p\ortant# / 5 5 42 7950 1 1 e 11 about uni^l\ateralists# - / 5 5 42 7960 1 1 e 11 is that the ^younger generation are re!j\ecting# . / 5 5 43 7970 1 1 e 11 the "^order of pri\orities# . / 5 5 43 7980 1 1 e 11 that ^puts the !cold w/ar# / 5 5 43 7990 1 1 e 11 ^top of the l/ist# . / 5 5 43 8000 1 1 e 11 of the ^dangers that 'face the !!w\orld# . / 5 5 43 8010 1 1 e 11 ^nuclear w/eapons# . / 5 5 43 8020 1 1 e 11 [t] . ^rise of popul/ation# . / 5 5 43 8030 1 1 e 11 the ^revolution in /Africa# / 5 5 43 8040 1 1 e 11 these are ^much more imp\ortant# . / 5 5 43 8050 1 1 e 11 than the ^c\old _war# / 5 5 43 8060 1 1 e 11 and ^these f\orces# . / 5 5 43 8070 1 1 e 11 ^are !working themselves /out# / 5 5 43 8080 1 1 e 11 in the ^L\abour _Party# . / 5 5 43 8090 1 2 e 11 and they`re ^leaving us in the "!short run / 5 5 43 8090 1 1 e 11 !w=eak# . / 5 5 43 8100 1 1 e 11 but in the ^l\ong r/un# . / 5 5 43 8110 1 1 e 11 ^these are the f\orces# / 5 5 43 8120 1 1 e 11 that will "^\ultimately# . / 5 5 43 8130 1 1 e 11 "^win supp\ort# / 5 5 43 8140 1 1 e 11 of the ma^jority of the people in this c\ountry# . / 5 5 43 8150 1 1 e 11 and ^that`s why I`m !!more of a socialist n/ow# . / 5 5 43 8160 1 1 e 11 and ^not l\ess of one# / 5 5 44 8170 1 1 aud 20 *(applause)* / 5 5 44 8180 1 1 a 11 ^r/ight# / 5 5 44 8190 1 2 a 13 ^well now *- - - I`ve ^[pu] I`ve* ^put a "line / 5 5 44 8190 1 1 a 13 under :that qu\estion# / 5 5 44 8200 1 1 a 11 which ^means we`ll go on to the n\ext one# . / 5 5 44 8210 1 1 a 11 and the ^next one comes fr=om# / 5 5 44 8220 1 1 j 11 ^Anne B\athurst# / 5 5 44 8230 1 1 a 11 ^Anne B\athurst# / 5 5 44 8240 1 2 j 11 in ^view of the fact that people now have :old / 5 5 44 8240 1 1 j 11 copper p\ans# / 5 5 44 8250 1 1 j 12 ^filled with flowers in the ^s/itting-_room# . / 5 5 44 8260 1 1 j 11 ^what domestic objects of tod\ay# / 5 5 44 8270 1 1 j 11 would the ^team sugg\est# / 5 5 44 8280 1 1 j 11 that ^one should coll\ect# . / 5 5 44 8290 1 1 j 11 with a ^view to leaving one`s de:sc\/endants# / 5 5 44 8300 1 1 j 11 ^something to !cash \in _on# / 5 5 44 8310 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 45 8320 1 2 a 11 *- - - in ^view of the fact* that people :now have / 5 5 45 8320 1 1 a 11 :old copper p\ans# . / 5 5 45 8330 1 1 a 11 ^filled with fl\owers# / 5 5 45 8340 1 1 a 11 ((in)) the ^s\itting-r/oom# . / 5 5 45 8350 1 1 a 11 ^what domestic objects of tod/ay# / 5 5 45 8360 1 1 a 11 would the ^team sugg=est# / 5 5 45 8370 1 1 a 11 that ^one should coll=ect# - / 5 5 45 8380 1 1 a 11 with a ^view to leaving one`s de:sc\endants# / 5 5 45 8390 1 1 a 11 ^something to cash \in _on# - - / 5 5 45 8400 1 1 a 11 ^Christopher Ch\ataway# / 5 5 45 8410 1 1 c 11 ^old copper p\ennies# - / 5 5 45 8420 1 1 c 11 I`m . ^quite s\ure# / 5 5 45 8430 1 1 c 11 that . ^our desc\/endants# / 5 5 45 8440 1 1 c 11 [@] will ^not "d\eal in _these _things# / 5 5 45 8450 1 1 c 11 they ^won`t h\ave# / 5 5 45 8460 1 1 c 11 [@] ^holes made in their p\ockets# / 5 5 45 8470 1 1 c 11 by ^h\uge# - / 5 5 45 8480 1 1 c 11 [@m] ^c\/oins# . / 5 5 45 8490 1 1 c 11 [@] ^great "!p\ocketfuls# / 5 5 45 8500 1 1 c 11 of of these [@] "^large [@] copper c\oins# / 5 5 45 8510 1 1 c 11 *. ^they won`t "!s\ee _pennies# - / 5 5 45 8520 1 1 c 11 ^they won`t "!s\ee pennies#* / 5 5 46 8530 1 1 b 11 *but ^Chris it`s "p\ans# . / 5 5 46 8540 1 1 b 11 it`s ^p\ans#* - / 5 5 46 8550 1 1 b 11 you`ve ^got it !wr\ong# / 5 5 46 8560 1 1 b 11 it`s "^p\ans# / 5 5 46 8570 1 1 c 11 I ^kn\ow# . / 5 5 46 8580 1 2 c 12 ((well and)) +^this is ^this is the domestic / 5 5 46 8580 1 1 c 12 :\object# / 5 5 46 8590 1 1 c 21 that ^I / 5 5 46 8600 1 1 aud 20 +(laughter)+ / 5 5 46 8610 1 1 a 11 - ^y\es# / 5 5 46 8620 1 1 a 11 ^that`s all r\ight# . / 5 5 46 8630 1 1 a 11 we`ll in^cl\ude it {^y\es#}# / 5 5 46 8640 1 2 c 11 - - -+ but ^think what you`ll be :able to do with / 5 5 46 8640 1 1 c 11 with copper p\ennies# / 5 5 46 8650 1 1 c 11 ^paint sh\ips on them# / 5 5 46 8660 1 1 c 11 and ^hang them up in your :l\iving-_room# - / 5 5 46 8670 1 1 c 11 and they ^will be . "r\are _objects {I ^th=ink#}# / 5 5 46 8680 1 2 c 11 and and [@] . ^sources of a":m\azement {to ^future / 5 5 46 8680 1 1 c 11 gener\ations#}# / 5 5 46 8690 1 2 c 11 so . ^anybody who`s ":g\ot any _pennies {I / 5 5 46 8690 1 1 c 11 ^th=ink#}# / 5 5 46 8700 1 1 c 11 ^put them b/y# . / 5 5 47 8710 1 1 c 20 *and [@]* / 5 5 47 8720 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 47 8730 1 1 b 11 *^\oh# / 5 5 47 8740 1 1 b 20 I ((1 syll))* / 5 5 47 8750 1 1 a 11 *- ^come =on# / 5 5 47 8760 1 1 a 11 ^Lord B/oothby#* / 5 5 47 8770 1 1 b 11 - - well ^=I# / 5 5 47 8780 1 1 b 11 a^void p\ennies# / 5 5 47 8790 1 1 b 11 when^ever I :possibly c/an# . / 5 5 47 8800 1 1 b 11 I ^haven`t got a :single copper ":p\/an# - / 5 5 47 8810 1 1 b 11 and I ^very very seldom have fl/owers# . / 5 5 47 8820 1 1 b 11 and if I "^had any :fl=owers# / 5 5 47 8830 1 1 b 11 I wouldn`t "^p\ut them {in a ^copper p\an#}# - / 5 5 47 8840 1 1 b 11 so the "^whole "!b\asis of this qu/estion# . / 5 5 47 8850 1 1 b 11 [i] is ^under!!m\ined# / 5 5 47 8860 1 1 b 11 so ^far +as I`m conc\erned#+ / 5 5 47 8870 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 5 47 8880 2 1 b 22 ^I don`t / 5 5 47 8890 1 1 a 11 +((1 syll)) ^far as you :are conc\erned#+ / 5 5 47 8880 1 1(b 12 think and ^\anyway# / 5 5 47 8900 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t want to !l=eave# / 5 5 47 8910 1 1 b 11 ^\anything# / 5 5 47 8920 1 1 b 11 to ^\anybody# / 5 5 47 8930 1 1 b 11 ^they can "cash :\in on# / 5 5 48 8940 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 48 8950 1 2 a 21 *- - - ( - - laughs) ^Anthony Wedgwood [be] ( - - / 5 5 48 8950 1 1 a 21 laughs)* / 5 5 48 8960 1 1 e 11 - - - well ^we have in our :l\iving-r/oom# - / 5 5 48 8970 1 1 e 11 [@] . a ^very \useful _thing# / 5 5 48 8980 1 1 e 11 which we were ^handed /on# - / 5 5 48 8990 1 1 e 11 and we ^keep [@] !\/ice in it# / 5 5 48 9000 1 1 e 11 at ^p\/arties# / 5 5 48 9010 1 1 e 11 we ^have a com!m\ode# / 5 5 48 9020 2 1 e 22 +- and it`s an ex^tremely - -+ / 5 5 48 9030 1 1 aud 20 +(laughter)+ / 5 5 48 9020 1 1(e 12 ex"^tremely :\useful {to ^\us#}# - / 5 5 48 9040 1 1 e 11 but "^I must s/\ay# / 5 5 48 9050 1 1 e 11 ^this seems to be a very !!\easy _question# - / 5 5 48 9060 1 2 e 11 [@m] . my ^children will no doubt :toss their / 5 5 48 9060 1 1 e 11 :s\alad# / 5 5 48 9070 1 1 e 12 ^in our ^in our w/ashing-ma_chine# - / 5 5 48 9080 1 1 e 11 they`ll ^glaze the telev\ision# / 5 5 48 9090 1 1 e 11 and ^sh/ave into it# - / 5 5 48 9100 1 1 e 11 they`ll ^use the telephone as a doorkn/ocker# . / 5 5 48 9110 1 1 e 11 and they can ^wind their :w\ool# / 5 5 49 9120 1 1 e 12 at ^four sp\/eeds on our ^gr\amophone# - / 5 5 49 9130 1 1 e 11 which will be a tre"^m\endous ad_vantage# / 5 5 49 9140 1 1 e 11 ^I should ((thought)) "!this gener\ation# / 5 5 49 9150 1 1 e 11 will ^leave "!more "l\itter# . / 5 5 49 9160 1 1 e 11 of ^th\at k/ind# / 5 5 49 9170 1 1 e 11 that ^any previous gener\ation# . / 5 5 49 9180 1 1 e 11 when "^all the m\odern# / 5 5 49 9190 1 1 e 11 con^sumer d\urables# / 5 5 49 9200 1 1 e 11 as the e^c\onomist c/alls them# / 5 5 49 9210 1 1 e 11 what^ever th/at _means# . / 5 5 49 9220 1 1 e 11 ^when we "!l\eave# / 5 5 49 9230 1 1 e 11 ^all these con:s\umer d/urables# . / 5 5 49 9240 1 2 e 11 and they`ve ^all been made :artificially / 5 5 49 9240 1 1 e 11 :obsol\escent# . / 5 5 49 9250 1 1 e 11 and ^\/obsolete# / 5 5 49 9260 1 1 e 11 by the ^s\/alesmen# . / 5 5 49 9270 1 1 e 11 and ^\everyone# / 5 5 49 9280 1 1 e 11 is ^w\ildly# . / 5 5 49 9290 1 1 e 11 ^buying !something \else# / 5 5 49 9300 1 1 e 11 which ^in its t\urn# / 5 5 49 9310 1 1 e 11 will be ^equally \useless# / 5 5 49 9320 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) ^Frank B\yers# / 5 5 49 9330 1 1 a 11 ^what a horrible th\ought# / 5 5 50 9340 1 1 f 11 - - - well ^if com"m\ode# / 5 5 50 9350 1 1 f 11 [wo] ^means what I :th\ink it m/eans# / 5 5 50 9360 2 1 f 21 *- [@] - -* ^I suggest we`d leave to our / 5 5 50 9370 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 50 9360 1 1(f 11 de:sc/endants# / 5 5 50 9380 1 1 f 11 ^anything !\else {we ^find under the b\ed#}# / 5 5 50 9390 1 1 a 11 +- - ^oh n\o# . / 5 5 50 9400 1 1 a 12 you ^couldn`t ^n\o _Frank# / 5 5 50 9410 1 1 a 11 you ^couldn`t put that under the b\ed#+ / 5 5 50 9420 1 1 aud 20 +(laughter)+ / 5 5 50 9430 1 1 f 11 oh you ^don`t th\ink so# / 5 5 50 9440 1 1 a 11 ^no n\o _no# / 5 5 50 9450 1 1 f 11 ^I s\ee# *-* / 5 5 50 9460 1 1 f 11 well +in ^th\at _case# / 5 5 50 9470 1 1 f 11 [w]+ - in ^th\at _case# / 5 5 50 9480 1 1 a 11 *^c\ould you _Bob#* / 5 5 51 9490 1 1 b 11 +^no !I don`t th\ink so#+ / 5 5 51 9500 1 2(f 11 we`ll ^put a :lot more :flowers in the \other / 5 5 51 9500 1 1(f 11 thing# *- / 5 5 51 9510 1 1 f 21 and - - -* but I ^think [dh@b] . the !b\est thing / 5 5 51 9520 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 51 9530 1 1 f 10 {^r\eally#}# / 5 5 51 9540 1 1 f 11 would be to ^leave them {a f\ull} p\arking _meter# / 5 5 51 9550 1 1 aud 20 +(laughter)+ / 5 5 51 9560 1 1 a 11 +- - ( - laughs)+ ^Christopher Ch/ataway# / 5 5 51 9570 1 1 a 11 ^any id/eas# / 5 5 51 9580 1 1 a 11 ^m/ore i_deas# / 5 5 51 9590 1 1 c 11 - ^n\o# / 5 5 51 9600 1 1 c 21 I ^don`t think ((I`ve)) / 5 5 51 9610 1 1 a 11 ex^cept your copper p\ennies# - / 5 5 51 9620 1 1 a 11 you`re ^st\icking to _that# / 5 5 51 9630 1 1 c 11 ^y\eah# / 5 5 52 9640 1 1 a 11 . ^Lord B\oothby# / 5 5 52 9650 1 1 b 11 ^w=ell# / 5 5 52 9660 1 1 b 11 there`s a "^new . "carpet . "shampoo "w\asher# . / 5 5 52 9670 1 1 b 11 I ^can`t say what it \/is# *.* / 5 5 52 9680 1 1 b 11 because ^that would 'be \advertising it# / 5 5 52 9690 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 5 5 52 9700 1 1 a 11 +^y\es#+ / 5 5 52 9710 2 1(b 21 +.+ but ^that **.** does make a very big app\eal / 5 5 52 9720 1 1 c 20 **((1 syll))** / 5 5 52 9710 1 1(b 11 {to ^m\e#}# - / 5 5 52 9730 1 1 b 11 and I`m in^v\estigating _that# / 5 5 52 9740 1 1 b 11 ^very carefully for Chr\istmas# - / 5 5 52 9750 1 1 b 11 and if I "^d\o g/et _one# . / 5 5 52 9760 1 1 b 11 I`ll ^leave it to :s\omebody# - / 5 5 52 9770 1 1 b 11 but I ^don`t think I`ll get many :th\anks for it# / 5 5 52 9780 1 1 aud 20 *(laughter)* / 5 5 53 9790 1 1 a 11 *- - ^probably* be worn !\out# / 5 5 53 9800 1 1 a 11 by ^th\at _time _Bob# / 5 5 53 9810 1 1 b 11 ^with any !l\uck# / 5 5 53 9820 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - - / 5 5 53 9830 1 1 a 11 ^all r/ight# / 5 5 53 9840 1 1 a 11 we ^go on to the :next question fr=om# / 5 5 53 9850 1 1 k 11 ^Mrs Olive P\erry# / 5 5 53 9860 1 1 a 11 Mrs ^Olive P\erry# / 5 5 53 9870 1 1 k 11 ^would the members of the p\anel# / 5 5 53 9880 1 1 k 11 ex^pl\ain# / 5 5 53 9890 1 1 k 11 ^why should old age :p\ensioners# / 5 5 53 9900 1 1 k 11 ^wait for their :promised \increase# - / 5 5 53 9910 1 1 k 11 when ^civil s\ervants# / 5 5 53 9920 1 1 k 11 re^ceive !increases "b\ackdated# / 5 5 53 9930 1 1 a 11 ^would the members of the panel expl\ain# / 5 5 53 9940 1 1 a 11 ^why should :old age p\ensioners# / 5 5 53 9950 1 1 a 11 "^w/ait# / 5 5 53 9960 1 1 a 11 for their ^promised /increase# - / 5 5 53 9970 1 1 a 11 when ^civil s/ervants# / 5 5 54 9980 1 1 a 11 re^ceive increases :backd\ated# - - - / 5 5 54 9990 1 1 a 11 ^Christopher Ch/ataway# / 5 5 5410000 1 1 c 11 well there ^is a . [ei] :new "pension "sch\eme# / 5 5 5410010 1 1 c 11 ^coming into oper/ation# / 5 5 5410020 1 1 c 11 ^on [@] April the "f\irst# - / 5 5 5410030 1 1 c 11 [dhi] "^new "!gr\aduated pension sch/eme# / 5 5 5410040 1 1 c 11 that . "^w\ill# / 5 5 5410050 1 1 c 11 [@: i] en^\able# . / 5 5 5410060 1 1 c 11 [@] "^\everybody# / 5 5 5410070 1 1 c 11 be"^l\ow a certain :=income# / 5 5 5410080 1 1 c 11 to be ^s=ure# . / 5 5 5410090 1 1 c 11 [@] ^of [@] . providing 'for their old :\age# / 5 5 5410100 1 1 c 11 through the ^st\ate# / 5 5 5410110 1 1 c 11 if they ^w\ish to# - / 5 5 5410120 1 1 c 11 and ^this does [@t] . inv/olve# / 5 5 5410130 1 1 c 11 [ei] tre^m/endous# / 5 5 5410140 1 1 c 11 a^mount of !w\ork# . / 5 5 5410150 1 1 c 11 and it in^v/olves# . / 5 5 5410160 1 1 c 11 ^alter/ations# / 5 5 5410170 1 2 c 11 ^of the contri"!b\utions {that ^everybody will / 5 5 5410170 1 1 c 11 p\ay#}# - / 5 5 5410180 1 1 c 11 and [@] . it . it ^really 'would 'be im:p\ossible# / 5 5 5510190 1 1 c 11 ^\I _am con_vinced# - / 5 5 5510200 1 1 c 11 to . "^alter the contri":b\/utions# - / 5 5 5510210 1 1 c 11 and . "^alter [dhi] "p\ensions p/aid# / 5 5 5510220 1 1 c 11 on the "^b\asic r/ate# . / 5 5 5510230 1 1 c 11 be"^f\ore April the f/irst# - / 5 5 5510240 1 1 c 11 [@] be^cause there /is# / 5 5 5510250 1 1 c 11 [@] this "^n\ew _scheme# / 5 5 5510260 1 1 c 11 ^coming into effect :th\en# / 5 5 5510270 1 1 c 11 now ^this can all be dism\issed# / 5 5 5510280 1 1 c 11 as ^oh w\ell# / 5 5 5510290 1 1 c 11 ^just ad"ministrative "n\onsense# / 5 5 5510300 1 1 c 11 but . ^if you . im"\agine# / 5 5 5510310 1 1 c 11 the "^work that . 'is inv\olved# - / 5 5 5510320 1 1 c 11 in ^altering . !all those :p=ension _books# . / 5 5 5510330 1 1 c 11 in "^altering the a":m\ount# / 5 5 5510340 1 1 c 11 that "^every ":single indi":v\idual# / 5 5 5510350 1 1 c 11 has to "^p\ay {in this ^c\ountry#}# . / 5 5 5510360 1 1 c 11 you ^can en"v\isage# / 5 5 5510370 1 1 c 11 [dhi] - con"^f\usion# / 5 5 5510380 1 1 c 11 that ^there would "!b\/e# - / 5 5 5510390 1 1 c 11 ^if [@ dhi] . two !s\ets of alter/ations# . / 5 5 5610400 1 1 c 11 were ^brought in . a month ap\art# . / 5 5 5610410 1 1 c 11 and I ^think that "!th\at is the r/eason# . / 5 5 5610420 1 1 c 11 why "^th\is set of alter/ations# / 5 5 5610430 1 1 c 11 "^c\annot be brought /in# . / 5 5 5610440 1 1 c 11 un^til April the f\irst# / 5 6 1 10 1 1 c 11 ((2 to 3 sylls)) ^what`s the i:d\/ea# . / 5 6 1 20 1 1 c 11 is ^on the !oppo'sition to :f\ox'hunting# - / 5 6 1 30 1 1 c 11 ^Patrick M/oore# . / 5 6 1 40 1 1 c 11 an ^honorary :vice-pr/esident# / 5 6 1 50 1 2 c 11 of the ^national so'ciety for the 'abolition of / 5 6 1 50 1 1 c 11 'cruel :sp/orts# . / 5 6 1 60 1 1 c 11 is ^questioned by !Michael B/erry# . / 5 6 1 70 1 1 c 11 ^vice-ch/airman# / 5 6 1 80 1 1 c 11 of the ^British 'field sports so":c/iety# . / 5 6 1 90 1 1 c 11 and ^Dennis D\anby# . / 5 6 1 100 1 1 c 11 a ^veterinary s\urgeon# - / 5 6 1 110 1 1 c 11 "^Michael B\/erry# / 5 6 1 120 1 1 c 11 ^speaks f\irst# - - / 5 6 1 130 1 1 b 11 ^well n\ow# . / 5 6 1 140 1 1 b 11 ^as . 'Dennis 'Danby and \/I# . / 5 6 1 150 1 1 b 11 ^may be !s\aid I th/ink# / 5 6 1 160 1 1 b 11 to . ^repre'sent . the . es!tablished _pr/actice# -/ 5 6 1 170 1 1 b 11 I sug^gest that we 'ask Mr !M\/oore# . / 5 6 2 180 1 1 b 11 to ^st\/ate# . / 5 6 2 190 1 1 b 11 as . con^cisely as he c/an# - / 5 6 2 200 1 1 b 11 ^wh\at it 'is# / 5 6 2 210 1 1 b 11 that he ob^j\/ects 'to# / 5 6 2 220 1 1 b 11 ^in f/ox'hunting# - / 5 6 2 230 1 2 b 11 and ^why he 'thinks it`s - :practicable and / 5 6 2 230 1 1 b 11 n\/ecessary# . / 5 6 2 240 1 1 b 11 as I ^think he !d\/oes# . / 5 6 2 250 1 1 b 11 to [s] . sug^g/est# / 5 6 2 260 1 1 b 11 that ^legis!lation should be 'brought /in# . / 5 6 2 270 1 1 b 11 to pro"^h\ibit it# - / 5 6 2 280 1 2 m 11 ( . clears throat) I can ^answer 'that !quite / 5 6 2 280 1 1 m 11 conc\isely# - / 5 6 2 290 1 1 m 11 ^first of /all# / 5 6 2 300 1 1 m 11 ^hunting 'is !un'necessarily cr\uel# - / 5 6 2 310 1 1 m 11 ^s\/econdly# . / 5 6 2 320 1 1 m 11 it does "^not re'duce the 'number of :f/oxes# / 5 6 2 330 1 1 m 11 it ^actually 'keeps them "\up# . / 5 6 3 340 1 1 m 11 be^cause they are pre'served for h\unting# - / 5 6 3 350 1 1 m 11 "^th\/irdly# . / 5 6 3 360 1 1 m 11 it ^has a de!grading eff/ect# / 5 6 3 370 1 1 m 11 up^on the !huntsmen thems\elves# / 5 6 3 380 1 1 m 11 and I am par^t\icularly conc/erned# / 5 6 3 390 1 1 m 11 with the ef^f/ects# / 5 6 3 400 1 1 m 11 up^on "!young p\eople# . / 5 6 3 410 1 1 m 11 with [dhi] "^b\arbarous pr/actices# / 5 6 3 420 1 1 m 11 of ^bl/ooding# / 5 6 3 430 1 1 m 11 and ^things of 'that n\ature# - / 5 6 3 440 1 1 m 11 ^\/also# / 5 6 3 450 1 1 m 11 I am ^quite disg\usted# / 5 6 3 460 1 1 m 11 with the at^tempts m\/ade# . / 5 6 3 470 1 1 m 11 to ^st\op# / 5 6 3 480 1 1 m 11 the ^R'S'PC/A# / 5 6 3 490 1 1 m 11 op^posing h\unting# . / 5 6 3 500 1 1 m 11 and in ^f/act# / 5 6 3 510 1 1 m 11 the ^RS'PC/A# / 5 6 3 520 1 1 m 11 does "^n\ot {at the ^m\oment#}# / 5 6 3 530 1 1 m 11 op^p\ose h/unting# / 5 6 3 540 1 1 m 11 be^cause you will 'not all\ow it# - / 5 6 4 550 1 1 m 11 ^now I`d !like to 'carry 'on from th/ere# / 5 6 4 560 1 1 m 11 ^very br\iefly if I m/ay# . / 5 6 4 570 1 1 m 11 ^just to cl/arify# / 5 6 4 580 1 1 m 11 ^your 'own \attitudes# - / 5 6 4 590 1 1 m 11 ^you 'are !both \actively# / 5 6 4 600 1 1 m 11 con^c\erned in h/unting# / 5 6 4 610 1 2 m 11 and I`d ^like to . :get this :clear to st\art / 5 6 4 610 1 1 m 11 with# . / 5 6 4 620 1 1 m 11 so that I ^know the :kind of p\eople# / 5 6 4 630 1 1 m 11 with ^whom I`m d\ealing# - / 5 6 4 640 1 1 m 11 I`ve ^put this 'challenge :up to !y\ou Mr B/erry# / 5 6 4 650 1 1 m 11 ^once bef/ore# / 5 6 4 660 1 1 m 11 at ^East Gr\instead# - / 5 6 4 670 1 1 m 11 it ^w=as# / 5 6 4 680 1 1 m 11 to ^s\/ign# / 5 6 4 690 1 1 m 11 ^this f/ollowing st\atement# - / 5 6 4 700 1 1 m 11 ^I opp/ose# . / 5 6 4 710 1 1 m 11 ^/all# / 5 6 4 720 1 1 m 11 ^un'necessary cr/uelty# / 5 6 4 730 1 1 m 11 to ^\animals# - / 5 6 4 740 1 1 m 11 ^I will sup!p/ort# / 5 6 4 750 1 1 m 11 ^any p\arlia'mentary# / 5 6 5 760 1 1 m 11 ^legisl/ation# . / 5 6 5 770 1 1 m 11 de^s/igned# / 5 6 5 780 1 1 m 11 to ^bring ((the)) "!w\ild /animals# . / 5 6 5 790 1 1 m 11 ^under the !same prot=ection# / 5 6 5 800 1 1 m 11 in ^this resp/ect# . / 5 6 5 810 1 1 m 11 as is ^now ext/ended# / 5 6 5 820 1 1 m 11 ^to do'mestic \animals# . / 5 6 5 830 1 1 m 11 and I ^very 'much h/ope# / 5 6 5 840 1 1 m 11 that you will ^now ac!c\ept the ch/allenge# / 5 6 5 850 1 1 m 11 ^and !s\ign it# . / 5 6 5 860 1 1 m 11 I ^g\ive it to you# - . / 5 6 5 870 1 1 m 11 ^will you s/ign it# - / 5 6 5 880 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# . / 5 6 5 890 1 1 m 11 ^th\ank you# - / 5 6 5 900 1 1 m 13 ^((my)) . ^will you ^will you s/ign it Mr *'Danby#*/ 5 6 5 910 1 1 d 11 *^n\o#* - / 5 6 6 920 1 1 m 11 ^th/ank you# . / 5 6 6 930 1 1 m 11 my ^question is \answered# - / 5 6 6 940 1 1 m 11 I would ^like 'everyone to :n/ote# . / 5 6 6 950 1 1 m 11 that I have ^\asked these g/entlemen# - / 5 6 6 960 1 1 m 11 to (([@p])) . [u:] to ^sign a 'declar\ation# / 5 6 6 970 1 1 m 11 op^posing "!\un'necessary 'cruelty to /animals# . / 5 6 6 980 1 1 m 11 ^and to bring !w\ild 'animals# / 5 6 6 990 1 1 m 11 ^under the pro!t\ection# . / 5 6 6 1000 1 1 m 11 ^n\ow [@k] ex'tended to do:m=estic 'animals# . / 5 6 6 1010 1 1 m 11 ^and !they 'have !both ref\used# - - - / 5 6 6 1020 1 1 m 11 ^need 'I 'say :m\ore# - - / 5 6 6 1030 1 1 m 11 ^your 'first qu\estions# - / 5 6 6 1040 1 1 b 11 ^n\ow# . / 5 6 6 1050 1 1 b 11 [?] you . ^made a !little sp/eech# . / 5 6 6 1060 1 1 b 11 ^making !s\everal# . / 5 6 6 1070 1 1 b 11 ^very im'portant :c\omments on h/unting# - / 5 6 7 1080 1 1 b 11 ^=and# . / 5 6 7 1090 1 1 b 11 ^ending /up# / 5 6 7 1100 1 1 b 11 with ^asking us to . !s\ign a p=aper# . / 5 6 7 1110 2 1 b 22 which to ^m\y - . *as* ^far as :\I can / 5 6 7 1120 1 1 m 20 *( . laughs)* / 5 6 7 1110 1 1(b 12 'underst/and it# / 5 6 7 1130 1 1 b 11 ^means !abso'lutely n\othing# / 5 6 7 1140 1 1 b 11 **^n\ow#** / 5 6 7 1150 1 1 m 11 **((but I ^just 'want you to))** !!s\ign it# . / 5 6 7 1160 1 1 m 11 +. ^here it :\/is#+ / 5 6 7 1170 1 2 b 12 +[@:] I have ^no in'tention+ . ^no in'tention of / 5 6 7 1170 1 1 b 12 doing !anything of the s\ort# / 5 6 7 1180 1 1 m 11 ^I !kn\ow# / 5 6 8 1190 1 2 b 11 but ^may I . 'just 'try and 'deal with 'your / 5 6 8 1190 1 1 b 11 'questions f\irst# . / 5 6 8 1200 1 1 m 11 ^c\ertainly# . / 5 6 8 1210 1 2 b 11 the ^first . sug'gestion 'is that 'hunting is / 5 6 8 1210 1 1 b 11 'unneces"!s\/arily# / 5 6 8 1220 1 1 b 11 ^cr\uel# / 5 6 8 1230 1 1 m 11 ^y\es# . / 5 6 8 1240 1 1 b 11 ^=and# . / 5 6 8 1250 1 1 b 11 ^may I 'ask Mr !D\/anby# / 5 6 8 1260 1 1 b 11 ^who [x] is a !veterinary :s\/urgeon# - - / 5 6 8 1270 1 1 b 12 and ^very . and a ^master of b/eagles# / 5 6 8 1280 1 1 b 11 has ^had a !very 'long exp\erience# . / 5 6 8 1290 1 1 b 11 ^both . of - be!haviour of !w\ild /animals# . / 5 6 8 1300 1 2 b 11 ^and of 'course of the be'haviour of do"!m\estic / 5 6 8 1300 1 1 b 11 /animals# - / 5 6 8 1310 1 1 b 11 ^whether he can !t\ell m/e# - / 5 6 9 1320 1 1 b 11 that it ^is "!p\/ossible# - / 5 6 9 1330 1 1 b 11 for a ^wild /animal# . / 5 6 9 1340 1 1 b 11 to ^meet its /end# . / 5 6 9 1350 1 1 b 11 in a ^w\/ay# . / 5 6 9 1360 1 2 b 11 which does ^not in'volve "!some 'sort of / 5 6 9 1360 1 1 b 11 p\ain# - - - / 5 6 9 1370 1 1 d 11 may I ^pr\eface# / 5 6 9 1380 1 1 d 11 [?] ( . coughs) ^this by !s\/aying# . / 5 6 9 1390 1 1 d 11 that ^I am [ei] !v\eterinary s/urgeon# - / 5 6 9 1400 1 1 d 11 and ^what 'I :s\ay# . / 5 6 9 1410 1 1 d 11 ^on this !br\oad'cast# . / 5 6 9 1420 1 1 d 11 is "^n\ot# / 5 6 9 1430 1 1 d 11 ^n\/ecessarily# - . / 5 6 9 1440 1 1 d 11 [dhi] ^v\iews# / 5 6 9 1450 1 1 d 11 ^of the . !r\/est of the _members# / 5 6 9 1460 1 1 d 11 of ^my pro!f\ession# / 5 6 9 1470 1 1 m 11 I`m ^sure you`re w\ise sir# - - - / 5 6 10 1480 1 1 d 12 for ^I ( - coughs) . on re^f\erring# / 5 6 10 1490 1 2 d 11 ^to [@:m] . the [@:] !Oxford [@: g @m . @:] / 5 6 10 1490 1 1 d 11 :d\/ictionary# / 5 6 10 1500 1 1 d 11 ^I f/ind# . / 5 6 10 1510 1 1 d 11 that [@] . the ^word "!v\et# / 5 6 10 1520 1 1 d 11 ^means to {ex!\amine} . or "!tr\eat# - / 5 6 10 1530 1 1 d 11 in ^br\ackets# / 5 6 10 1540 1 1 d 11 a "^b\east# - - - / 5 6 10 1550 1 1 d 11 ^/or# - / 5 6 10 1560 1 1 d 11 ^ch=eck# . / 5 6 10 1570 1 1 d 11 ^=and# . / 5 6 10 1580 1 1 d 11 cor^r\ect# - - / 5 6 10 1590 1 1 d 11 ^n\ow# - / 5 6 10 1600 1 1 d 11 ^we 'are :here ton/ight# / 5 6 10 1610 1 1 d 11 to ex^\/amine# - / 5 6 10 1620 1 1 d 11 and [p] ^hope tr/eat# - - / 5 6 10 1630 1 1 d 11 ^and we are !here to "!ch\eck# . / 5 6 10 1640 1 1 d 11 and ^I 'hope cor"!r\ect# - - - / 5 6 10 1650 1 1 d 11 ^my own v/iew# - / 5 6 10 1660 1 1 d 11 ^/is# . / 5 6 10 1670 1 1 d 11 ^that _there _is "!l\ittle# . / 5 6 10 1680 1 1 d 11 or ^no cr\/uelty# . / 5 6 10 1690 1 1 d 11 ^in h\unting# / 5 6 11 1700 1 2 m 11 ( . laughs) - - - ((am ^I)) to answer this Mr / 5 6 11 1700 1 1 m 11 !B/erry# / 5 6 11 1710 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 11 1720 1 1 b 11 I ^think I`d 'like to a!v\oid that if I *m/ay#* / 5 6 11 1730 1 1 m 11 *oh ^pl\ease* do# / 5 6 11 1740 1 1 m 11 ^y\es# . / 5 6 11 1750 1 1 b 11 [@:] - ^I - - f\eel# / 5 6 11 1760 1 1 b 11 we`re ^all faced with 'this pr\oblem# . / 5 6 11 1770 1 1 b 11 we in"^h\erit# . / 5 6 11 1780 1 1 b 11 a ^rural /England# . / 5 6 11 1790 1 1 b 11 which is in^h\/abited# - / 5 6 11 1800 1 1 b 11 by ^wild \animals# - / 5 6 11 1810 1 1 b 11 ^s\omebody# / 5 6 11 1820 1 1 b 11 has ^got to as'sume re'sponsib\ility# / 5 6 11 1830 1 1 b 11 for the ^wild 'animals if they are to con!t\inue# / 5 6 11 1840 1 1 b 11 their ex^\istence# / 5 6 11 1850 1 1 d 11 ^hear h\ear# - / 5 6 12 1860 1 2 b 11 ^we`ve . !not only :got to pro:vide them a / 5 6 12 1860 1 1 b 11 :ch\ance# - / 5 6 12 1870 1 1 b 11 to ^lead their :natural l/ives# - / 5 6 12 1880 1 1 b 11 but we`ve ^got to pro":v\/ide them# . / 5 6 12 1890 1 1 b 11 with a ^d\/eath# . / 5 6 12 1900 1 1 b 11 ^which - as !far as :w\e can s/ee it# . / 5 6 12 1910 1 1 b 11 ^causes 'them the 'minimum of !p\ain# - / 5 6 12 1920 1 1 b 11 and ^when . 'people s\ay# / 5 6 12 1930 1 1 b 11 that ^hunting is !cr\/uel# . / 5 6 12 1940 1 1 b 11 ^that 'means to s/ay# / 5 6 12 1950 1 1 b 11 that it in^flicts !p\ain# . / 5 6 12 1960 1 1 m 11 ^quite s\o# - / 5 6 12 1970 1 1 b 11 I ^quite agr/ee# . / 5 6 12 1980 1 1 b 12 and - "^any . the "^k\illing of an 'animal# / 5 6 12 1990 1 1 b 11 ^by h\/ounds# / 5 6 12 2000 1 1 b 11 "^m\ust# . / 5 6 12 2010 1 1 b 12 ^I . ^\I th/ink# . / 5 6 12 2020 1 1 b 11 and I`m ^sure we`ll 'all agr/ee# / 5 6 13 2030 1 1 b 11 it ^must 'cause the 'animal 'some p\ain# . / 5 6 13 2040 1 1 b 11 but ^th/en# - / 5 6 13 2050 1 1 b 11 we ^get 'back to the qu/estion# / 5 6 13 2060 1 1 b 11 ((of)) ^what is the al!t\ernative# . / 5 6 13 2070 1 1 b 11 ^does !\any# / 5 6 13 2080 1 1 b 11 [m] ^wild 'animal :d\/ie# / 5 6 13 2090 1 1 b 11 with^out 'some sort of !p\ain# / 5 6 13 2100 1 1 d 11 but ^may I put !th\is to you# - / 5 6 13 2110 1 1 d 11 ^wh=o# . / 5 6 13 2120 1 1 d 11 and ^may I 'ask par"!t\icularly# . / 5 6 13 2130 1 1 d 11 ^Mr M/oore# / 5 6 13 2140 1 1 m 11 ^y/es# - / 5 6 13 2150 1 1 d 11 ^has h\/e# / 5 6 13 2160 1 1 d 11 ^ever exp\/erienced# / 5 6 13 2170 1 1 d 11 the ^killing 'of [ei] f\ox# - / 5 6 14 2180 1 1 m 11 now I ^kn\ew# / 5 6 14 2190 1 1 m 11 this ^old 'old red h/erring would come _up# . / 5 6 14 2200 1 1 m 11 and I`ll ^counter it with an'other qu\estion# . / 5 6 14 2210 1 1 m 11 ^do you *appr/ove# / 5 6 14 2220 1 1 m 11 your^s/elf#* / 5 6 14 2230 1 1 d 11 *((no . no no))* ^may I 'ask this :one qu\estion# / 5 6 14 2240 1 1 d 11 and be^fore we 'answer th\/at 'one# - / 5 6 14 2250 1 1 d 11 ^y\ou answer th/at one# / 5 6 14 2260 1 1 d 11 we ^can`t 'really 'go a:h\ead# / 5 6 14 2270 1 1 d 11 I *^m\ust* kn/ow# / 5 6 14 2280 1 1 m 11 *^yes we c\an#* / 5 6 14 2290 1 1 d 11 ^whether you have :seen [ei] 'fox :k\illed# / 5 6 14 2300 1 1 d 11 *. and "^h\ow#* / 5 6 14 2310 1 1 m 11 *^I 'have !n\ot#* . / 5 6 14 2320 1 1 m 11 ^I 'have !n\ot 'seen a :f/ox 'killed# / 5 6 15 2330 1 1 m 11 ex^cept with a g/un# / 5 6 15 2340 1 1 m 11 when it was ^shot !cl/eanly# / 5 6 15 2350 1 1 m 11 and ^fell 'dead im"!m\ediately# . / 5 6 15 2360 1 1 m 11 now ^let me 'counter this with :asking y/ou# . / 5 6 15 2370 1 1 m 11 ^do you appr/ove# / 5 6 15 2380 1 1 m 11 of ^f\oxes# / 5 6 15 2390 1 1 m 11 being ^thr\own# / 5 6 15 2400 1 1 m 11 a^l/ive# / 5 6 15 2410 1 1 m 11 to ^d\ogs# . / 5 6 15 2420 1 1 d 11 they`re ^n\ever 'thrown a'live to 'dogs# / 5 6 15 2430 1 1 m 11 ^n\ow# / 5 6 15 2440 1 1 m 11 ^let me 'give you an ex/am'ple# . / 5 6 15 2450 1 1 m 11 ^r/ecent'ly# / 5 6 15 2460 1 1 m 11 ^members of the 'Southdown :h/unt# / 5 6 15 2470 1 1 m 11 were ob^s=erved# / 5 6 15 2480 1 1 m 11 by ^Mr 'Donald Ch/apman# / 5 6 15 2490 1 1 m 11 who is ^M'P for a ":Birmingham cons!t/ituen'cy# - / 5 6 15 2500 1 1 m 11 and ac^cording to Mr :Ch\/apman# . / 5 6 16 2510 1 1 m 11 a ^f=ox# / 5 6 16 2520 1 1 m 11 ^was in f/act# / 5 6 16 2530 1 1 m 11 ( - coughs) ^thrown a'live to the :d\ogs# / 5 6 16 2540 1 1 m 11 ^are you 'saying that Mr 'Chapman is a ":l/iar# . / 5 6 16 2550 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 16 2560 1 1 b 11 ^I`m s/aying# / 5 6 16 2570 2 1 b 21 that there is *a* / 5 6 16 2580 1 1 m 11 *^qu\ite#* / 5 6 16 2570 1 1(b 11 ^very 'very 'stringent r\/ule# / 5 6 16 2590 1 1 b 11 of the ^MF\H *as'soci'at((ion))#* / 5 6 16 2600 1 2 m 11 *I I`m ^ask*ing 'you a [k] :straight !qu\estion Mr / 5 6 16 2600 1 1 m 11 'Berry# - / 5 6 16 2610 1 1 m 11 I`m ^asking you :wh\ether# / 5 6 16 2620 1 1 m 11 when ^Mr 'Chapman :s\/ays# / 5 6 16 2630 1 2 m 11 that he ^saw a [th] 'fox thrown a'live to the / 5 6 16 2630 1 1 m 11 !d/ogs# / 5 6 17 2640 1 1 b 11 ((I`ve)) ^simply n/o# / 5 6 17 2650 1 1 b 11 ^facts of the 'case bef\ore *me# / 5 6 17 2660 1 1 b 20 ((7 to 8 sylls))* / 5 6 17 2670 1 1 m 11 *[@:] I`m ^just 'asking you* if he`s a !l\iar# / 5 6 17 2680 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 17 2690 1 2 b 12 I`m ^not I`m ^absolutely **(('not 'saying that he`s/ 5 6 17 2690 1 1 b 12 a l\iar#))** / 5 6 17 2700 1 1 m 11 **in ^that 'case you** ad'mit that it !h\appens# . / 5 6 17 2710 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 17 2720 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t at !\all# . / 5 6 17 2730 1 1 m 11 ((but)) then what ^/are we g\etting 'to# / 5 6 17 2740 1 1 m 21 *. I ^mean this is 'just a 'crazy* / 5 6 18 2750 1 1 b 11 *^n/o# / 5 6 18 2760 1 1 b 11 this is it is* ^not t\/ypical# / 5 6 18 2770 1 1 b 11 of ^what 'happens 'out h\unting# / 5 6 18 2780 1 1 b 11 it`s ^no good **\arguing# / 5 6 18 2790 1 1 b 11 from the . ^particular to the g\eneral#** / 5 6 18 2800 1 1 m 11 **[@:m] - ^very w/ell# / 5 6 18 2810 1 1 m 11 ^let me 'read** you some !m/ore 'ex'tracts# / 5 6 18 2820 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 18 2830 1 1 b 21 it`s ^no / 5 6 18 2840 1 1 d 11 *^we 'don`t "!want to 'listen* to +:\extracts#+ / 5 6 18 2850 1 1 b 11 *((you ^won`t)) be'lieve what :\/I 'say#* / 5 6 18 2860 1 1 m 11 +of ^c\ourse you+ 'don`t# / 5 6 18 2870 1 1 m 11 you ^d\are [?] not# . / 5 6 18 2880 2 1 d 22 we ^want **[@s]** we ^want to :know / 5 6 19 2890 1 1 m 20 **[?h]** / 5 6 19 2880 1 1(d 12 from !y\ou# *.* / 5 6 19 2900 1 1 d 11 ^as to !whether !you 'have !ever ex:p\erienced# / 5 6 19 2910 1 1 d 11 ^any cr\/uelty# / 5 6 19 2920 1 1 m 11 *^y\es#* / 5 6 19 2930 1 1(d 11 . ^in the c/ountry# . / 5 6 19 2940 1 1 d 11 ^by the :h/unting# / 5 6 19 2950 1 1 d 11 ^of !animals 'by d\ogs# / 5 6 19 2960 1 1 m 11 ^I have !just 'given you :\one ex/ample# / 5 6 19 2970 1 1 m 11 ^there are {!pl\enty} m\ore# - / 5 6 19 2980 1 1 m 11 for ex^/ample# / 5 6 19 2990 1 1 m 11 ^let me 'give you an:\other 'case# / 5 6 19 3000 1 1 m 11 a ^little 'while a!g/o# / 5 6 19 3010 1 1 m 11 a ^pack of d/ogs# / 5 6 19 3020 1 1 m 11 ^not very 'far a!way from /us# - / 5 6 19 3030 1 2 m 11 ^ran 'on to [@m] . a :place 'where d\eer were / 5 6 19 3030 1 1 m 11 :k=ept# . / 5 6 19 3040 1 1 m 11 ^and they 'savaged a 'small :d\eer# . / 5 6 20 3050 1 2 m 11 in^st\ead of re'porting it to the 'owner of the / 5 6 20 3050 1 1 m 11 :pr/operty# . / 5 6 20 3060 1 1 m 11 the ^hunt . tried to !b\ury# / 5 6 20 3070 1 1 m 11 the ^deer at the !d/ead of _night# / 5 6 20 3080 1 2 m 11 and ((un))^luckily they were :seen by a :couple of / 5 6 20 3080 1 1 m 11 ch/ildren# / 5 6 20 3090 1 1 m 11 *. ((and re^p\orted#))* / 5 6 20 3100 1 1 d 11 *this is ^h\ear'say#* . / 5 6 20 3110 1 1 d 11 this is ^h\ear+say#+ / 5 6 20 3120 1 1 m 11 +it is+ ^n\ot# / 5 6 20 3130 1 1 m 11 I ^saw it my!s\elf# / 5 6 20 3140 1 2 m 11 ^would you 'like to see a 'photo'graph of the / 5 6 20 3140 1 1 m 11 d/eer# / 5 6 20 3150 1 1 b 20 ( . laughs) / 5 6 20 3160 1 1 m 11 ^I !have !got *h/ere# / 5 6 20 3170 1 1 m 11 a ^st/atement#* / 5 6 21 3180 1 1 d 11 *^and yours/elf#* / 5 6 21 3190 1 1 d 11 ^and your+s/elf#+ / 5 6 21 3200 1 1 m 11 +^y/es#+ / 5 6 21 3210 1 1 m 11 ^with !me w\ith it# / 5 6 21 3220 1 1 d 11 ^\oh# . / 5 6 21 3230 1 1 m 11 ^y/es# / 5 6 21 3240 1 1 m 11 ^would you 'like to s/ee it# / 5 6 21 3250 1 1 m 11 I`ve ^got it in 'my c\ase# . / 5 6 21 3260 1 1 b 11 I ^think *it is !safe to s\ay#* / 5 6 21 3270 1 1 m 11 *^n=ow# / 5 6 21 3280 1 1 m 11 ^would you 'like me* to [@] 'read this /out# / 5 6 21 3290 2 1 m 21 or would **you ^rather / 5 6 21 3300 1 1 b 22 **((^no))** +^I+ / 5 6 21 3290 1 1(m 11 I** d\idn`t# +-+ / 5 6 21 3310 1 1 m 11 I`ve ^got a {[st\aind]} st\atement 'here# / 5 6 21 3320 1 1 m 11 you ^kn/ow# / 5 6 21 3330 1 1 m 11 from the ^p\/eople# / 5 6 21 3340 1 1 d 12 but [m] ^Mr ^Mr ( - laughs) . M\oore# / 5 6 21 3350 1 1 d 11 ^we are for !\ever 'reading# / 5 6 22 3360 1 2 d 11 this ^n\onsense {that ^goes 'on in the / 5 6 22 3360 1 1 d 11 :p\apers#}# . / 5 6 22 3370 1 1 d 11 ^wr/itten# / 5 6 22 3380 1 2 d 11 by ^people who !know !nothing a'bout 'what they`re / 5 6 22 3380 1 1 d 11 :wr\iting# . / 5 6 22 3390 1 1 d 11 *^not a !th\ing# . / 5 6 22 3400 1 1 d 11 ^n\ot a 'thing#* / 5 6 22 3410 1 1 m 11 *^very !w/ell# - / 5 6 22 3420 1 2 m 11 in ^that case 'let* me 'quote you the 'Ministry of / 5 6 22 3420 1 1 m 11 'Agri"!c\ulture# / 5 6 22 3430 1 1 m 11 ^I`ve got plenty of th/ese# - / 5 6 22 3440 1 1 m 11 ^you will 'keep on s/aying# . / 5 6 22 3450 1 2 m 11 that the [@m] ^hunting of 'foxes is the 'most / 5 6 22 3450 1 1 m 11 'merciful 'way of !d\oing it# / 5 6 22 3460 1 1 m 11 ^now I !quite agr/ee# . / 5 6 22 3470 1 1 m 11 that . ^sh\ooting a :f/ox# . / 5 6 23 3480 1 1 m 11 or ^g/assing it# / 5 6 23 3490 1 1 m 11 or ^any 'other w/ay# . / 5 6 23 3500 1 1 m 11 "^m\/ay# / 5 6 23 3510 1 1 m 11 in^volve !cr\uelty# . / 5 6 23 3520 1 1 m 11 if you ^don`t 'kill it the 'first t/ime# / 5 6 23 3530 1 1 m 11 it in^evitably "!d\oes# . / 5 6 23 3540 1 1 m 12 ^no one in their ^senses will de'ny !th\at# . / 5 6 23 3550 1 1 m 11 but "^h\unting# / 5 6 23 3560 1 1 m 11 de^l\iberately# / 5 6 23 3570 1 1 m 11 in^volves !cr/uelty# / 5 6 23 3580 1 2 m 11 and in ^fact 'that is the 'whole 'purpose be!h\ind / 5 6 23 3580 1 1 m 11 it# / 5 6 23 3590 1 1 m 11 what^ever you may !s\ay# - / 5 6 23 3600 1 1 m 11 ^now it`s the !\old {^\old#}# / 5 6 23 3610 1 1 m 11 *^red h/erring# / 5 6 23 3620 1 1 m 20 that you* / 5 6 23 3630 1 1 d 11 *^n\/o# / 5 6 23 3640 1 1 d 11 ^no 'no 'no 'no* +'no 'no 'no 'no !pl\ease# / 5 6 23 3650 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3660 1 1 d 11 [n] ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3670 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3680 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3690 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3700 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 6 23 3710 1 1 d 11 ^pl\ease# / 5 6 23 3720 1 1 d 20 ((this is))+ / 5 6 24 3730 1 1 m 11 +^may I 'finish :pl/ease# - / 5 6 24 3740 1 1 m 11 ^m\ay I 'finish pl/ease# . / 5 6 24 3750 1 1 m 11 ^m\ay I 'finish pl/ease# . / 5 6 24 3760 1 1 m 11 ^m\ay I 'finish+ :pl/ease# - / 5 6 24 3770 2 1 m 21 *I was ^talking a'bout the :Ministry* of / 5 6 24 3780 1 1 b 20 *((5 to 6 sylls))* / 5 6 24 3770 1 1(m 11 'Agric\ulture# / 5 6 24 3790 1 1 m 11 ^pl\ease 'have the 'manners to l/et me _finish# - / 5 6 24 3800 1 1 m 11 [@:] ^one of [dhi:] :main [@] \arguments# / 5 6 24 3810 1 1 m 11 that ^y\ou put f/orward# . / 5 6 24 3820 1 1 m 11 ^is that !\other m/ethods# / 5 6 24 3830 1 1 m 11 ^are in 'fact 'less 'cruel than !h\unting# . / 5 6 24 3840 1 1 m 11 *^n\ow# / 5 6 24 3850 2 1 m 21 ac^cording to* the / 5 6 24 3860 1 1 b 11 *((^1 to 2 sylls !m\ore 'cruel#))* / 5 6 24 3850 1 1(m 11 'Ministry of Agric\/ulture# / 5 6 24 3870 1 2 m 11 in their ^publication "wild 'mammals and the / 5 6 24 3870 1 1 m 11 !l/and# - / 5 6 25 3880 1 1 m 11 ^cruelty by sh\/ooting# . / 5 6 25 3890 1 1 m 11 can ^usually be av\oided# . / 5 6 25 3900 1 1 m 11 if the ^man with the g\un# / 5 6 25 3910 1 1 m 11 is a ^reasonably good "!sh/ot# . / 5 6 25 3920 1 1 m 11 and ^if he 'picks his 'shots !c\arefully# . / 5 6 25 3930 1 1 m 11 ^what he :n/eeds# / 5 6 25 3940 1 1 m 11 is suf^f\iciently 'large '[shaiz] :sh/ot# / 5 6 25 3950 1 1 m 11 and a ^self-im'posed r\/ule# / 5 6 25 3960 1 1 m 11 that ^foxes be'yond 'sure 'killing r/ange# / 5 6 25 3970 1 1 m 11 shall be ^left to the !next _g/un# / 5 6 25 3980 1 1 m 11 or if ^necessary for an'other "!d\ay# . / 5 6 25 3990 1 1 m 11 you ^see the !k/illing# . / 5 6 25 4000 1 1 m 11 [dhi:] ^cr\/uelty# . / 5 6 25 4010 1 1 m 11 is ^cut to an 'absolute !m\inimum# - / 5 6 26 4020 1 1 m 11 ^now we 'come to g\assing# - / 5 6 26 4030 1 2 m 12 ^and it ![se @] ac^cording to the 'Ministry of / 5 6 26 4030 1 1 m 12 'Agri:c/ulture# / 5 6 26 4040 1 1 m 11 on the ^first of 'July !nineteen fifty-"!n/ine# - / 5 6 26 4050 1 1 m 11 the ^Ministry is s\atisfied# / 5 6 26 4060 1 2 m 11 that pro^viding the !n\ormal 'method of 'gassing / 5 6 26 4060 1 1 m 11 tech'nique is :f/ollowed# . / 5 6 26 4070 1 2 m 11 ^i'e the :gassing 'powder is in'serted in the 'each/ 5 6 26 4070 1 1 m 11 of the :entrances et!c=etera# . / 5 6 26 4080 1 2 m 12 [@:] then . ^[de] ^death from 'hydrocy'anic 'acid / 5 6 26 4080 1 1 m 12 g/as# / 5 6 26 4090 1 1 m 11 is ^quick and !p\ainless# . / 5 6 26 4100 1 1 m 11 but of ^course !you _don`t l\ike th/at# / 5 6 26 4110 1 1 m 11 you en^joy !ch\asing# / 5 6 27 4120 1 1 m 11 and ^t\orturing them# / 5 6 27 4130 1 1 m 11 ^f\irst# / 5 6 27 4140 1 1 m 11 ^d\on`t you# . / 5 6 27 4150 1 1 d 11 I ^hate the i'dea of :g\assing - {^s\omething#}# . / 5 6 27 4160 2 1 d 22 you ^don`t *'know / 5 6 27 4170 1 1 m 20 *((4 to 5 sylls))* / 5 6 27 4160 1 1(d 12 'the you ^don`t* 'know 'the :l\ength# / 5 6 27 4180 1 2 d 11 ((of the)) or the ^depth of the !/earth {or / 5 6 27 4180 1 1 d 11 ^/anything#}# / 5 6 27 4190 1 2 d 11 you ^don`t know 'how much they`re 'going to / 5 6 27 4190 1 1 d 11 ab:s/orb# . / 5 6 27 4200 1 1 m 11 in ^th\at 'case# / 5 6 27 4210 1 1 m 11 you`re ^setting yourself /up# / 5 6 27 4220 1 1 m 11 a^gainst the !Ministry of !Agri!c\ulture# - . / 5 6 27 4230 1 1 m 11 ^if you 'think *you 'know :better than th\ey do#* / 5 6 28 4240 1 1 d 11 *ex^c/use me# / 5 6 28 4250 1 1 d 11 ^I 'am* "!n/ot# - / 5 6 28 4260 1 2 d 11 ^I am re!ferring to the re'port of the com!mittee / 5 6 28 4260 1 1 d 11 of the 'cruelty of :wild \animals# / 5 6 28 4270 1 1 d 21 **((^nineteen))** / 5 6 28 4280 1 1 m 11 **^/oh# / 5 6 28 4290 1 1 m 11 the** ^Scott 'Henderson comm/ittee# / 5 6 28 4300 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 5 6 28 4310 1 1 m 11 ^oh yes !that was com'posed as 'we kn/ow# / 5 6 28 4320 1 1 m 11 I`ll ^read you the 'list of 'people /on it# - / 5 6 28 4330 1 2 m 11 [@:m] there was ^Mr 'Scott 'Henderson / 5 6 28 4330 1 1 m 11 ":ch/airman# - / 5 6 28 4340 1 1 m 11 then there was ^Mr 'Charles Br/andon# / 5 6 29 4350 1 2 m 11 who was a ^secretary of ((the)) 'Transport ((and)) / 5 6 29 4350 1 1 m 11 'General W/orkers 'Union# . / 5 6 29 4360 1 1 m 11 Mr ^W 'J Br\own# / 5 6 29 4370 1 1 m 11 ^interested in sh\ooting# / 5 6 29 4380 1 1 m 11 a ^well known con'tributor to the !F/ield# - / 5 6 29 4390 1 1 m 11 Mr ^B\urne {^M\urdoch#}# / 5 6 29 4400 1 1 m 11 ^interested in f/ishing# / 5 6 29 4410 1 1 m 11 Mr "^John 'Cripps 'editor of the C/ountry_man# . / 5 6 29 4420 1 1 m 11 Pro^fessor Medawar zo/ologist# . / 5 6 29 4430 1 1 m 11 ^Miss !Frances P/itt# / 5 6 29 4440 1 1 m 11 who was a ^master of a :Shr\opshire :h/unt# . / 5 6 29 4450 1 1 m 11 and ^Major P/ugh# / 5 6 29 4460 1 2 m 11 who was ^veterinary s/urgeon {to the ^West 'Kent / 5 6 29 4460 1 1 m 11 :f/ox_hounds#}# . / 5 6 30 4470 1 1 m 11 and the ^((2 sylls 'Brook)) b\eagles# . / 5 6 30 4480 1 1 m 11 ^that was a com:m\/ittee# / 5 6 30 4490 1 1 m 11 which con^t\/ained# / 5 6 30 4500 1 1 m 11 a pre"^ponderance of :hunting p/eople# / 5 6 30 4510 2 1 m 21 *^and* you !know it as 'well as / 5 6 30 4520 1 1 b 20 *[ae]* / 5 6 30 4510 1 1(m 11 \I do# . / 5 6 30 4530 1 1 b 11 [@:] ^Mr _M\oore# / 5 6 30 4540 1 1 b 11 ^n=ow# . / 5 6 30 4550 1 1 b 11 I ^think we :m\ust# . / 5 6 30 4560 1 1 b 11 ^r\eally# / 5 6 30 4570 1 1 b 11 ^do 'something con:str\uctive about th/is# / 5 6 30 4580 1 1 b 11 ^all you`ve done :s\o f/ar# / 5 6 30 4590 1 1 b 11 is to ^r=ead# . / 5 6 30 4600 1 1 b 11 ac^c\ounts# / 5 6 30 4610 1 1 b 11 of ^\isolated# / 5 6 30 4620 1 1 b 11 ^\/incidents# . / 5 6 30 4630 1 1 b 11 which are "^not 'typical of h\unting# . / 5 6 30 4640 1 1 m 11 *^oh !\obviously#* / 5 6 31 4650 1 2 b 11 *((2 sylls))* ^I could . sug!gest 'instances where / 5 6 31 4650 1 1 b 11 :people have committed atr/ocities# . / 5 6 31 4660 1 1 b 11 it ^m/ight even 'be# / 5 6 31 4670 1 1 b 11 that . ^people who are astr=onomers# / 5 6 31 4680 1 1 b 11 ^drive their m/otor_cars# / 5 6 31 4690 1 1 b 11 to the ^danger of the !p\ublic# . / 5 6 31 4700 1 1 b 11 but ^that`s no r\eason wh=y# . / 5 6 31 4710 1 2 b 11 ^\everybody should [pr@'hibihibitid] from / 5 6 31 4710 1 1 b 11 :m/otoring# / 5 6 31 4720 1 2 b 11 or ^even that !all as!tr\onomers should be / 5 6 31 4720 1 1 b 11 pro'hibited from 'motoring# . / 5 6 31 4730 1 1 b 11 you *^mustn`t \argue# / 5 6 31 4740 2 1 b 21 ^from / 5 6 31 4750 1 1 m 11 *((it ^really isn`t a p\arallel#))* / 5 6 31 4740 1 1(b 11 the* par!ticular to the g\eneral# . / 5 6 31 4760 1 2 b 11 ^these **'incidents are "!n\ot 'typical of / 5 6 31 4760 1 1 b 11 h/unting# . / 5 6 32 4770 2 1 b 22 and ^may I** now +^don`t / 5 6 32 4780 1 1 m 21 **[@:m] - - ac^cording to** / 5 6 32 4770 1 1(b 12 interr/upt# / 5 6 32 4790 1 1 b 11 we ^didn`t ***interr/upt ((you#))+*** / 5 6 32 4800 1 1 m 11 +^y\es# . / 5 6 32 4810 1 1 m 11 I`m *^s\o sorry# . / 5 6 32 4820 1 1 m 11 ^I`m s\o+ sorry# . / 5 6 32 4830 1 1 m 11 ^y\es#* / 5 6 32 4840 1 1 m 21 ++((^n\o))++ / 5 6 32 4850 1 1 d 13 *** *^no ^no*** ((we ^d=id 2 sylls#))* / 5 6 32 4860 2 1 b 21 ++now ^may++ I 'just 'talk to 'Mr +D/anby / 5 6 32 4870 1 1 m 11 +^yes pl\ease do# - / 5 6 32 4880 1 1 m 11 ^d\o# - - / 5 6 32 4890 1 1 m 11 ^y\es please#+ / 5 6 32 4860 1 1(b 11 for a moment# / 5 6 32 4900 1 1 b 11 ((and)) ^see if+ we can con!tr\ibute s/omething# / 5 6 32 4910 1 1 b 11 if ^only . !w\e pro!duced# . / 5 6 32 4920 1 2 b 11 ^things that 'everybody al:ready has 'seen in the / 5 6 32 4920 1 1 b 11 pr\ess# / 5 6 32 4930 1 1 b 21 *. and ^when there`s !nothing* / 5 6 33 4940 1 2 m 11 *but you ^try to con:ceal them as* :far as you / 5 6 33 4940 1 1 m 11 :c\/an# / 5 6 33 4950 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 33 4960 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t !simply 'nothing ab\out it# / 5 6 33 4970 1 1 m 11 [@:] ^may I ((come b\ack to this# . / 5 6 33 4980 1 1 m 20 come)) / 5 6 33 4990 1 1 b 11 ^n=o# / 5 6 33 5000 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# . / 5 6 33 5010 1 1 b 11 ^afterwards y\es# . / 5 6 33 5020 1 1 b 11 Mr ^D/anby# / 5 6 33 5030 1 1 b 11 ^may we just . :tr\y# / 5 6 33 5040 1 2 b 11 and ^see if we can !give our 'audience a !f\ew / 5 6 33 5040 1 1 b 11 facts {^on th\is#}# . / 5 6 33 5050 1 1 d 11 I should **be ^very h\appy to#** / 5 6 33 5060 1 1 b 11 **^you and /I#** / 5 6 33 5070 1 1 b 11 ^know !very w/ell# - / 5 6 33 5080 1 1 b 11 as I ^said bef/ore# / 5 6 34 5090 1 1 b 11 that we in^herit re'sponsi:b\/ility# . / 5 6 34 5100 1 1 b 11 ^for [dhi] - "!d\eath {of these ^wild \animals#}# / 5 6 34 5110 1 1 b 11 which ^are . 'in our ch/arge# / 5 6 34 5120 1 1 b 11 as ^well as for their l\ives# . / 5 6 34 5130 1 1 b 11 now ^how 'are we 'going to . :give the f\ox# . / 5 6 34 5140 1 1 b 11 a ^ch\/ance# . / 5 6 34 5150 1 1 b 11 to de^part . from this l/ife# . / 5 6 34 5160 1 1 b 11 with as ^little 'pain as p\ossible# / 5 6 34 5170 1 2 b 11 ^are we [@] 'going to al'low him to 'die of :old / 5 6 34 5170 1 1 b 11 !\age# / 5 6 34 5180 1 1 d 11 ((a)) ^f=ox# / 5 6 34 5190 1 1 d 11 is ^f\irst of /all# / 5 6 34 5200 1 1 d 11 we`ve ^got to :bear in :m\/ind# / 5 6 34 5210 1 2 d 12 that . there is ^not . there there is ^not {\one} / 5 6 34 5210 1 1 d 12 h\ealthy 'fox# / 5 6 35 5220 1 1 d 11 there can be dis^eased 'foxes or \injured 'foxes# -/ 5 6 35 5230 1 1 d 11 we`ve ^got to 'bear !th\at in 'mind# / 5 6 35 5240 1 1 d 11 not ^every 'fox that :leaves a c\over# - / 5 6 35 5250 1 1 d 11 is . ^n\ecessarily a 'healthy f/ox# / 5 6 35 5260 1 1 d 11 ^any 'more than a 'healthy d\og# / 5 6 35 5270 1 1 d 11 [? - s @:] - "^th\/erefore# / 5 6 35 5280 1 2 d 11 the ^sooner it is 'put out of its :misery the / 5 6 35 5280 1 1 d 11 !b/etter# / 5 6 35 5290 1 1 d 11 and ^no . b\etter :m=eans# / 5 6 35 5300 1 2 d 11 would ^be by !catching it 'with a 'pack of / 5 6 35 5300 1 1 d 11 h\ounds# - / 5 6 35 5310 1 1 d 11 "^s\econdly# - / 5 6 35 5320 1 1 d 11 [@] ^when 'does the f\ox# / 5 6 35 5330 1 1 d 11 ^r\/eally# / 5 6 35 5340 1 1 d 11 be^come "b\othered# - - / 5 6 35 5350 1 1 d 11 *^\any*'body# / 5 6 35 5360 1 1 d 11 ^no Mr M\oore# / 5 6 35 5370 2 1 d 21 it`s ^no / 5 6 36 5380 1 1 m 20 *((1 syll))* / 5 6 36 5370 1 1(d 11 'good 'you sn/iffing# . / 5 6 36 5390 1 1 d 11 the ^point is th\is# / 5 6 36 5400 1 1 d 11 ^you 'have !n\ever ex'perienced a h/unt# / 5 6 36 5410 1 1 d 11 you`ve ^n\ever 'seen a 'fox leave c/over# / 5 6 36 5420 1 2 d 11 you`ve ^n\ever seen :h/ounds - {^hunting a / 5 6 36 5420 1 1 d 11 !f/ox#}# . / 5 6 36 5430 1 1 d 11 and you`ve "^never 'seen a 'fox k\illed# / 5 6 36 5440 1 1 d 11 so ^how can you argue on a 'subject like th\is# . / 5 6 36 5450 1 1 d 11 when ^Mr [?m] :B/erry# . / 5 6 36 5460 1 1 d 11 has [b] is been a ^master of f=ox'hounds# / 5 6 36 5470 1 1 d 11 for [?m] ^many y=ears# . / 5 6 36 5480 1 1 d 11 and has ^done it 'all his l\ife# - / 5 6 36 5490 1 1 d 11 ^n\ow then# - / 5 6 36 5500 1 1 d 11 ^I can as:sure y\ou# / 5 6 37 5510 1 1 d 11 that a ^fox 'leaves c\over# / 5 6 37 5520 1 1 d 11 ^very 'very s/eldom# / 5 6 37 5530 1 1 d 11 in ^fear of his l\ife# - - / 5 6 37 5540 1 1 d 11 ^when he is :k/illed# / 5 6 37 5550 1 1 d 11 he is ^killed !\/instan_taneously# / 5 6 37 5560 1 1 d 11 because [p] you must ^bear in !m\ind# - . / 5 6 37 5570 1 1 d 11 ^that a !f\oxhound# . / 5 6 37 5580 1 1 d 11 is ^f\our to _five _times the _weight# / 5 6 37 5590 1 1 d 11 of a ^n/ormal !f\ox# . / 5 6 37 5600 1 1 d 11 and ^if he !d\oes 'catch it# - / 5 6 37 5610 1 1 d 11 ^I can as!sure y\ou# / 5 6 37 5620 1 1 d 11 it`s a ^very 'quick !d/eath# / 5 6 37 5630 1 1 d 11 ^just like a !terrier with a r\at# - / 5 6 37 5640 1 1 d 11 *and ^all this :n\onsense#* / 5 6 37 5650 2 1 d 21 you ^read / 5 6 37 5660 1 1 m 21 *((now ^may I 2 sylls))* / 5 6 37 5650 1 1(d 11 in the :p\aper# / 5 6 37 5670 1 1 d 11 a^bout being !t\orn# / 5 6 38 5680 1 1 d 11 and . ^spl\intered# / 5 6 38 5690 1 1 d 11 and . ^th\/at _sort of _thing# / 5 6 38 5700 1 1 d 11 is ^all !n\onsense# / 5 6 38 5710 1 1 d 11 is ^all !/eye'wash# - / 5 6 38 5720 1 1 d 11 and the ^sooner it`s for'gotten the "b\etter# . / 5 6 38 5730 1 1 m 11 you ^would ac'cept the re:p\ort# / 5 6 38 5740 1 1 m 11 of ^Mortimer B/atten# / 5 6 38 5750 1 2 m 11 in the ^first e'dition of :British wild _/animals / 5 6 38 5750 1 1 m 11 *pre'sumably#* / 5 6 38 5760 1 1 b 11 *oh ^pl\ease#* / 5 6 38 5770 1 1 b 11 don`t **^give us !any 'more quot\ations#** / 5 6 38 5780 1 1 d 11 **^\oh# / 5 6 38 5790 1 1 d 11 +^gracious n\o#**+ / 5 6 38 5800 1 1 d 11 ^my g\oodness :m=e# / 5 6 38 5810 1 1 m 11 +^n\o no# / 5 6 38 5820 1 1 m 11 you`re a^fr\aid of ((th/ose#))+ / 5 6 38 5830 1 1 d 11 *my ^dear f\ellow#* / 5 6 38 5840 1 1 d 11 ^d\o# / 5 6 38 5850 1 1 d 11 [t] ^speak **((s\ense#))** / 5 6 39 5860 1 1 m 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 6 39 5870 1 1 b 11 **^t\ell** us# / 5 6 39 5880 1 1 b 11 from your ^own exp\erience# / 5 6 39 5890 1 1 m 11 ^very *w\ell# / 5 6 39 5900 1 1 m 20 ((now))* / 5 6 39 5910 1 1 d 11 *your ^\own ex'perience#* . / 5 6 39 5920 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 6 39 5930 1 1 m 11 ^very w/ell# . / 5 6 39 5940 1 1 m 11 ^n\ow# / 5 6 39 5950 1 1 m 11 ^let me s/ee# / 5 6 39 5960 1 1 m 13 [we] ^if you ^if this is [kri] ^if this is tr/ue# / 5 6 39 5970 1 1 m 11 then ^why are 'you so /anxious# / 5 6 39 5980 1 1 m 11 to ^hush 'up what 'really !h\appens# . / 5 6 39 5990 1 1 b 11 I`ve [?m] ^absolutely 'nothing to h\ide# / 5 6 39 6000 2 1 b 21 *^anybody can* 'come 'out **with {m/y}** / 5 6 39 6010 1 1 m 11 *^g\ood#* / 5 6 39 6020 1 1 m 11 **^\excellent#** / 5 6 40 6000 1 1(b 11 h/ounds# / 5 6 40 6030 1 1 b 11 or +do ^anything they l\ike#+ / 5 6 40 6040 1 1 m 11 +^n=ow# / 5 6 40 6050 1 1 m 11 a ^little+ 'while ag/o# / 5 6 40 6060 1 1 m 11 ^we 'had a m/eeting# / 5 6 40 6070 1 1 m 11 at ^East Gr/instead# / 5 6 40 6080 1 1 m 11 ^when !you were 'repres/ented# / 5 6 40 6090 1 1 m 11 ^by your 'publ/icity 'man# / 5 6 40 6100 1 1 m 11 Mr ^Roger !Br\aben# / 5 6 40 6110 1 1 b 11 now ^don`t *go 'over* :\all the /old things# +.+ / 5 6 40 6120 2 1 b 21 ^tell us 'something of your / 5 6 40 6130 1 1 m 11 *^wait a m\oment#* / 5 6 40 6140 1 1 m 20 +[ae]+ / 5 6 40 6120 1 2(b 11 **:own ex'perience of what :happens** in the / 5 6 40 6120 1 1(b 11 !f\ield# . / 5 6 40 6150 1 1 b 11 ++in the ^f\ield#++ / 5 6 40 6160 1 1 m 11 **((^I`m just !g\oing to# / 5 6 40 6170 1 1 m 11 1 to 2 sylls))** ++^c/ertainly#++ / 5 6 40 6180 1 1 m 11 ^c\ertainly# . / 5 6 40 6190 1 1 m 11 ^just let me *f/inish 'please#* - / 5 6 40 6200 1 1 m 11 [@:m] ^Roger Br\aben# / 5 6 41 6210 1 1 b 20 *[m]* / 5 6 41 6220 1 1(m 11 for ^some extra!\ordinary 'reason# / 5 6 41 6230 1 1 m 11 ^started 'talking about !n\/udism# / 5 6 41 6240 1 2 m 12 but ^then we 'did [di 'de d@ dh@] ^th\en we 'did / 5 6 41 6240 1 1 m 12 get 'on to :s/omething# - / 5 6 41 6250 1 1 m 11 ^now [@m] . !he`s 'issued n/ow# / 5 6 41 6260 1 1 m 11 a di^r\/ective# / 5 6 41 6270 1 1 m 11 to ^all 'leaders of :d\og 'packs# - / 5 6 41 6280 1 1 m 11 ^and it !!says h\ere for ex/ample# / 5 6 41 6290 1 1 m 11 ^this is !Roger Br\aben`s# / 5 6 41 6300 1 1 m 11 ^own w\/ords# / 5 6 41 6310 1 1 m 11 in his ^own 'public\ation# / 5 6 41 6320 1 1 m 11 ^issued !f\or the 'blood 'sports soc/iety# / 5 6 41 6330 1 2 m 11 ^or the 'fields sports so'ciety or what'ever you / 5 6 41 6330 1 1 m 11 !c/all it# - / 5 6 41 6340 1 1 m 11 [@] re^p\orts of h/unting# / 5 6 42 6350 1 2 m 11 should be re^stricted to de:scriptions of the / 5 6 42 6350 1 1 m 11 :country 'hunted /over# . / 5 6 42 6360 1 2 m 11 with as ^much 'detail as you 'like of :h=ound / 5 6 42 6360 1 1 m 11 'work# . / 5 6 42 6370 1 1 m 11 but a^void 'stressing 'details of the k\ill# . / 5 6 42 6380 1 1 m 11 ^i/e# / 5 6 42 6390 1 1 m 11 and ^these are his w/ords# . / 5 6 42 6400 1 1 m 11 ^h=ounds# / 5 6 42 6410 1 1 m 11 ^killing their !dead-beat f\ox# - / 5 6 42 6420 1 1 m 11 the ^digging 'out of a f/ox# . / 5 6 42 6430 1 1 m 11 and ^h=ounds# / 5 6 42 6440 1 1 m 11 de^serving a 'taste of bl\ood# . / 5 6 42 6450 1 1 m 11 the ^w\isest ex'pression to /use# / 5 6 42 6460 1 1 m 11 is that a ^fox was acc\ounted _for# . / 5 6 42 6470 1 1 m 11 ^try to a'void the ex'pression . 'blood sp\orts# / 5 6 42 6480 1 2 m 11 and if ^that isn`t an ad'mission I 'don`t know what/ 5 6 42 6480 1 1 m 11 !\is# . / 5 6 43 6490 1 1 m 11 **^n\ow#** / 5 6 43 6500 1 1 m 11 ^do you [@d] agr/ee# / 5 6 43 6510 1 1 b 20 **((2 to 3 sylls))** / 5 6 43 6520 1 1(m 11 that ^foxes \are in *'fact# / 5 6 43 6530 1 1 m 11 de^liberately 'bred for h/unting#* . / 5 6 43 6540 1 1 b 11 *((^n\o#)) / 5 6 43 6550 1 1 b 11 ^may I just 'answer ((this))* qu/estion# / 5 6 43 6560 1 1 b 11 [?] +[@] ^you 'raised+ an:\other 'point# / 5 6 43 6570 2 1 b 21 [s] now *^don`t 'move* like a [?] / 5 6 43 6580 1 1 m 11 +((2 sylls))+ . *^y=es#* / 5 6 43 6570 1 1(b 11 b\utterfly# / 5 6 43 6590 1 1 b 11 from ^one to the /other# - / 5 6 43 6600 2 1 b 21 ^I`ve **got** !\absolutely / 5 6 43 6610 1 1 m 11 **^y/es#** / 5 6 43 6600 1 1(b 11 'nothing to h/ide about 'this# / 5 6 43 6620 1 1 b 11 ^I !p\ersonally# / 5 6 44 6630 1 1 b 11 ^d\on`t# / 5 6 44 6640 1 1 b 11 ^str\ess# / 5 6 44 6650 1 1 b 11 the ^death of a !f/ox# . / 5 6 44 6660 1 1 b 11 it ^doesn`t mean !\any_thing# . / 5 6 44 6670 1 2 b 11 to "^n\inety per 'cent of the 'people who 'come out/ 5 6 44 6670 1 1 b 11 h/unting# / 5 6 44 6680 1 1 m 11 then ^why not 'have a !dr\ag 'hunt# . / 5 6 44 6690 1 1 b 11 ^w/ell# . / 5 6 44 6700 1 1 b 11 *it`s* ^like 'shooting 'clay !p\igeons# / 5 6 44 6710 2 1 b 22 **there`s ^n\o** . there`s / 5 6 44 6720 1 1 m 11 *(coughs)* **^y\es# / 5 6 44 6730 1 1 m 11 that`s ^tr\ue#** / 5 6 44 6710 1 1(b 12 ^no 'satisf/action in it# / 5 6 44 6740 1 1 b 11 at ^\all# / 5 6 44 6750 1 1 b 11 it`s ^frightfully +d\ull#+ / 5 6 44 6760 1 1 m 11 +you+ you you ^like your *bit of* f/ilth# / 5 6 44 6770 1 1 m 11 at the ^\end# / 5 6 44 6780 1 1 m 11 **^qu\ite#** / 5 6 44 6790 1 1 b 11 *^n/o#* / 5 6 44 6800 1 1 b 11 **^no** it 'isn`t 'that at \all# / 5 6 45 6810 2 1 b 21 +it`s the+ un^c\ertainty of the / 5 6 45 6820 1 1 m 11 +((^1 s\yll#))+ / 5 6 45 6810 1 1(b 11 :ch/ase# . / 5 6 45 6830 1 2 b 11 and [dhi:] - ^chance of . :people enter:taining one/ 5 6 45 6830 1 1 b 11 an/other# . / 5 6 45 6840 1 1 b 11 en^joying . soc/iety# / 5 6 45 6850 1 1 b 11 there are ^many "!m\any _aspects _of it# / 5 6 45 6860 1 1 b 11 which are ^simply ":not suppl/ied# / 5 6 45 6870 1 1 b 11 by a ^dr\ag hunt# / 5 6 45 6880 1 1 b 11 we`ve been all ^\over this 'ground be:f/ore# / 5 6 45 6890 2 1 b 21 *I`m ^((s\ure)) you / 5 6 45 6900 1 1 m 11 *I`m ^s\ure you 'have#* / 5 6 45 6890 1 1(b 11 'want to* 'be constr/uctive# . / 5 6 45 6910 1 1 b 11 [m] ex^c\/use me a *_moment#* / 5 6 45 6920 1 1 d 12 *but* ^m\ay I ^m\ay I 'just 'put this# / 5 6 46 6930 1 1 d 11 ^I think it`s the 'most imp/ortant 'thing# / 5 6 46 6940 1 2 d 11 we`ve ^got to get 'down to the "!r\oot {of the / 5 6 46 6940 1 1 d 11 dis^\ease#}# / 5 6 46 6950 2 2 d 22 [dh] the dis^ease that **'Mr** the dis^ease that / 5 6 46 6950 2 1 d 22 'Mr / 5 6 46 6960 1 1 m 11 **the dis^ease of** h\unting# . / 5 6 46 6950 1 1(d 12 'Moore is "s\uffering 'from# - / 5 6 46 6970 1 1 d 11 ^and you !cannot 'treat a dis:/ease# / 5 6 46 6980 1 1 d 11 un^less you 'know the :c\ause# . / 5 6 46 6990 1 1 d 11 ^I 'maint/ain# / 5 6 46 7000 1 1 d 11 there ^must be !s\omething# . / 5 6 46 7010 1 1 d 11 a ^c\ause# / 5 6 46 7020 1 1 d 11 in ^Mr M\oore# . / 5 6 46 7030 1 1 d 11 ^s\uch 'as# - / 5 6 46 7040 1 1 d 11 [@:] ^seeing 'something "!dr\eadful# / 5 6 46 7050 1 1 d 11 ^happen to an \animal# / 5 6 46 7060 1 1 d 11 at an ^early /age# / 5 6 47 7070 1 1 d 11 which has im^pr\essed him# / 5 6 47 7080 1 1 d 11 ^\or# . / 5 6 47 7090 1 1 d 11 ^I think 'this is the 'most important p\oint# - / 5 6 47 7100 1 1 d 11 that ^he . 'finds the !s\ocial {^s\ide#}# *-* / 5 6 47 7110 1 1 m 11 *^oh n\o#* / 5 6 47 7120 1 1 d 11 ob^j\ectionable# . / 5 6 47 7130 1 1 d 11 [dhi: p] ^s\ocial 'side# / 5 6 47 7140 1 1 d 11 ob^j\ectionable# / 5 6 47 7150 1 1 d 11 and I . it ^happens to 'so m/any !p\eople# / 5 6 47 7160 1 1 d 11 I ^can`t bl/ame them# / 5 6 47 7170 1 2 d 12 it`s their ^own [r@] but ^don`t 'say it`s / 5 6 47 7170 1 1 d 12 :cr/uel# . / 5 6 47 7180 1 1 d 11 to ^hunt a f/ox# / 5 6 47 7190 1 1 d 11 or ^any 'other /animal# / 5 6 47 7200 1 1 d 11 pro^vided it is con:tr/olled# / 5 6 47 7210 1 1 d 11 ^l/ike# / 5 6 47 7220 1 1 d 11 the ^m\asters of _foxhounds as_soci_ation# / 5 6 48 7230 1 2 d 11 or the ^masters of 'beagles and !h\arriers / 5 6 48 7230 1 1 d 11 [@'s@ushi'leshn]# . / 5 6 48 7240 1 1 d 11 [i] . it`s ^r/un# / 5 6 48 7250 1 1 d 11 under ^very 'very 'strict r\ules# - - / 5 6 48 7260 1 1 m 11 *well ^th\is* of c/ourse# / 5 6 48 7270 2 1 m 22 ^is . ^may I / 5 6 48 7280 1 1 b 11 *^n\ow# / 5 6 48 7290 1 1 b 21 ^may I* / 5 6 48 7270 1 1(m 12 s/ay# / 5 6 48 7300 1 1 m 11 with**^=out# / 5 6 48 7310 2 1 m 21 with with** "^\one / 5 6 48 7320 1 1 b 20 **((3 to 4 sylls))** / 5 6 48 7310 1 1(m 11 ex'ception I :th/ink# / 5 6 48 7330 1 1 m 11 the ^most extra!\ordinarily {^f\utile#}# / 5 6 48 7340 1 1 m 11 ^\/argument# / 5 6 48 7350 1 1 m 11 that I`ve ^\ever# / 5 6 48 7360 1 1 m 11 ^heard in my l/\ife# . / 5 6 48 7370 1 1 m 11 and I just ^don`t know 'how to !\answer it# / 5 6 48 7380 1 2 m 11 it`s ((just)) like ^swearing that :black *is / 5 6 48 7380 1 1 m 11 !wh\ite#* / 5 6 49 7390 1 1 d 11 *"^g/\ood# / 5 6 49 7400 1 1 d 11 ^((well))* I`m !jolly "gl/\ad# / 5 6 49 7410 1 1 m 11 ^I don`t think it`s !\answerable# / 5 6 49 7420 1 1 m 11 I mean ^if !you t\ell 'me# . / 5 6 49 7430 1 1 m 11 that the ^moon is :half a 'million 'miles aw/ay# . / 5 6 49 7440 1 1 m 11 ^I can 'prove to you that it !\isn`t# / 5 6 49 7450 1 2 m 11 be^cause I`ve got 'something to !b\ase my**'self** / 5 6 49 7450 1 1 m 11 'on# / 5 6 49 7460 2 1 m 21 but / 5 6 49 7470 1 1 ? 20 **[m]** / 5 6 49 7460 1 1(m 11 ^if you 'tell me that :black is :wh\/ite# . / 5 6 49 7480 1 1 m 11 which in ef^fect is 'what you !\are d/oing# . / 5 6 49 7490 1 2 m 11 there`s just ^no ration'ality be'hind it at / 5 6 49 7490 1 1 m 11 !!\all# . / 5 6 50 7500 1 1 b 11 ^g\ood# / 5 6 50 7510 1 1 b 11 *well ^n/ow# / 5 6 50 7520 1 1 b 11 ((^let`s . go on to the n\ext 'point#))* / 5 6 50 7530 1 1 m 11 *of ^c\ourse# . / 5 6 50 7540 1 2 m 12 ^may I 'just 'ask you .* ^may I 'ask 'you \one / 5 6 50 7540 1 1 m 12 **'question n/ow#** / 5 6 50 7550 1 1 b 11 **^y/es#** / 5 6 50 7560 1 1 b 11 come ^/on# / 5 6 50 7570 1 1 m 11 ^do you agr/ee# / 5 6 50 7580 1 1 m 11 that ^foxes !\are in 'fact {pre^s\erved#}# / 5 6 50 7590 1 1 m 11 for the ^purposes of f\oxhunting# . / 5 6 50 7600 1 1 b 11 ^w/ell# . / 5 6 50 7610 1 1 b 11 ^that`s a v\ery big p/oint# / 5 6 50 7620 1 1 b 11 ^I would s\ay# / 5 6 50 7630 1 1 b 11 that ^I . "!t\olerate f/oxes# . / 5 6 50 7640 1 1 b 11 ^that`s to 'say I !d\on`t# . / 5 6 50 7650 1 1 b 11 ^k\/ill them# / 5 6 50 7660 1 1 b 11 on ^every 'day of the y\ear# . / 5 6 50 7670 1 1 m 11 *((^n\o# / 5 6 50 7680 1 1 m 20 but you))* / 5 6 51 7690 1 1 b 11 *now ((do)) ^you* call 'that pres/erving 'foxes# / 5 6 51 7700 1 1 m 11 ^no I d\on`t# / 5 6 51 7710 1 1 m 11 I`m ^talking a'bout de:liberately br\eeding them# -/ 5 6 51 7720 1 1 b 11 ^w/ell# / 5 6 51 7730 1 1 b 11 I ^let them 'breed in the spr/ing# . / 5 6 51 7740 2 1 m 23 but ^you !don`t [@:] ^you !would **[@]** / 5 6 51 7750 1 1 b 21 **^I** / 5 6 51 7740 1 1(m 13 ^would you for ex'ample [@m] :t\ake 'fox c/ubs# / 5 6 51 7760 1 1 m 11 and ^then 'let them g\o# / 5 6 51 7770 1 1 m 11 ((to)) ^hunt them *!l\ater#* / 5 6 51 7780 1 1 b 11 *^n/o#* / 5 6 51 7790 1 1 b 11 I ^would n\ot# . / 5 6 51 7800 2 2 b 21 there`s +a ^very . :stringent+ 'rule of the / 5 6 51 7800 2 1 b 21 'masters of / 5 6 52 7810 1 1 m 11 +((well [@m])) . ^y\es#+ / 5 6 52 7800 1 1(b 11 'foxhounds as:soci'ation in "!th\at re'spect# / 5 6 52 7820 1 1 b 11 ^t\oo# / 5 6 52 7830 1 1 b 11 *as you ^kn\ow#* / 5 6 52 7840 1 1 m 11 *in ^that c\ase#* / 5 6 52 7850 1 1 m 11 [dhi:] ^Sunday Expr\ess# / 5 6 52 7860 1 1 m 11 of ^August the 'twenty-first **'nineteen s/ixty#** / 5 6 52 7870 1 1 b 22 **oh ^don`t ^don`t** ((6 to 7 sylls)) / 5 6 52 7880 1 1 d 20 ((3 to 4 sylls +2 sylls+)) / 5 6 52 7890 1 1 b 11 +this is+ ^{\absolutely} !s\illy# / 5 6 52 7900 1 1 b 20 *it`s / 5 6 52 7910 1 1 m 21 *((I ^wouldn`t mind))* / 5 6 52 7920 1 1 b 11 a^g\ain#* / 5 6 52 7930 1 1 b 11 you`re ^getting b/ack# / 5 6 52 7940 1 2 b 11 to the . ^arguing from the **. par:ticular to the / 5 6 52 7940 1 1 b 11 ((g\eneral#))** / 5 6 53 7950 1 1 m 11 **the ^/\Earl of M/arlborough#** / 5 6 53 7960 1 1 m 11 ^joint 'master of the :Brockleby h/unt# . / 5 6 53 7970 1 1 m 11 [@] ^sp\oke to 'me as a re:p=orter# . / 5 6 53 7980 1 1 m 11 of the ^f\ox 'cub# / 5 6 53 7990 1 1 m 11 the ^hunt has c/ared for# / 5 6 53 8000 1 1 m 11 and ^set !fr\ee# . / 5 6 53 8010 1 1 m 11 "^that of 'course is wr\ong then# - / 5 6 53 8020 1 1 b 11 it`s ^abso'lutely wr/ong# / 5 6 53 8030 1 1 b 11 by the ^FH r\ules# / 5 6 53 8040 1 1 b 11 ^if in 'fact *'that is 'what he d\id#* / 5 6 53 8050 1 1 m 11 *^right you \are#* - / 5 6 53 8060 1 1 m 11 ^yes ex\actly# . / 5 6 53 8070 1 1 b 11 ^n\ow# / 5 6 53 8080 1 1 b 11 ^as I s/ay# / 5 6 53 8090 1 1 b 11 ^\every'body# / 5 6 53 8100 1 1 b 11 ^has its !code of r/ules# . / 5 6 53 8110 1 1 b 11 the ^object of ":h\aving r/ules# / 5 6 54 8120 1 1 b 11 ^is to 'keep _people in !!\order# . / 5 6 54 8130 1 1 b 11 ^f\oxh/unters# . / 5 6 54 8140 1 1 b 11 I`m . ^s\ure I`m 'right in s/aying# / 5 6 54 8150 1 2 b 11 are a ^very 'broad 'section of the 'English / 5 6 54 8150 1 1 b 11 comm\unity# / 5 6 54 8160 2 1 b 21 **they`re** ^no 'better / 5 6 54 8170 1 1 d 11 **ex^\actly#** / 5 6 54 8160 1 1(b 11 and *:no w/orse# / 5 6 54 8180 1 1 b 21 than the* ^\other 'sec / 5 6 54 8190 1 1 m 21 *ac^cording to* / 5 6 54 8200 1 1 b 11 ^don`t interr/upt **'please#** / 5 6 54 8210 1 1 m 11 **((no)) I`m** ^so s/orry# / 5 6 54 8220 1 1 b 22 you ^haven`t . you ^must *((be))* / 5 6 54 8230 1 1 m 11 *^no* I !quite agr\ee# / 5 6 54 8240 1 1 m 11 I`m ^s\orry# . / 5 6 55 8250 1 1 b 11 [@:] ^we`re \out# . / 5 6 55 8260 1 1 b 11 [@] Mr ^Danby and \/I# . / 5 6 55 8270 1 1 b 11 to ^s\/ay# . / 5 6 55 8280 1 1 b 11 and I`m ^s\ure we`re r/ight# . / 5 6 55 8290 1 1 b 11 that ^we /are# . / 5 6 55 8300 1 1 b 11 a ^normal !cross-s/ection# / 5 6 55 8310 1 1 b 11 of the ^people who 'live in 'rural \England# / 5 6 55 8320 1 1 b 11 ^no b/etter# / 5 6 55 8330 1 1 b 11 no ^w/orse# - / 5 6 55 8340 1 1 b 11 we ac^c\ept the 'hospi'tality# / 5 6 55 8350 1 1 b 11 of a "^l\ot of our :fr/iends# - / 5 6 55 8360 1 1 b 11 it`s ^up to /us# / 5 6 55 8370 1 1 b 11 to ^have a 'code of . 'decent beh/aviour# / 5 6 55 8380 1 1 b 11 and . to ^show . 'people who are :new to the g/ame#/ 5 6 55 8390 1 1 b 11 that they . de^pend *on hospit/ality# / 5 6 55 8400 1 1 b 11 and ^s\o on#* / 5 6 55 8410 1 1 m 11 *you ^call it a g\ame* [@]# / 5 6 56 8420 1 1 b 11 the **^people** as I :s\ay# / 5 6 56 8430 1 1 m 20 **[@m]** / 5 6 56 8440 1 1(b 11 who . ^come out h/unting# . / 5 6 56 8450 1 1 b 11 ^ninety per c\/ent of them# - / 5 6 56 8460 1 1 b 11 have . ^very 'very 'seldom !s\ee a :f/ox# . / 5 6 56 8470 1 1 b 11 they ^do from 'time to t/ime# / 5 6 56 8480 1 1 b 11 they "^c\ertainly# / 5 6 56 8490 1 1 b 11 ^couldn`t 'take !\any 'part# / 5 6 56 8500 1 1 b 11 in . ^k/illing it# . / 5 6 56 8510 1 2 b 11 a^part from . 'paying their sub:scription to the / 5 6 56 8510 1 1 b 11 s/ecretary# - / 5 6 56 8520 1 2 b 11 the ^people who [d] "!\are /interested . / 5 6 56 8520 1 1 b 11 {^n/aturally#}# / 5 6 56 8530 1 1 b 11 ^are the p/eople# / 5 6 56 8540 1 1 b 11 who are re^sp\onsible# / 5 6 56 8550 1 1 b 11 ^for the !w\elfare# / 5 6 56 8560 1 1 b 11 and the con^trol of the !h\ounds# - / 5 6 57 8570 1 2 b 11 and to "^say that 'they are - :more 'brutal than / 5 6 57 8570 1 1 b 11 'any other :section of the com!m/unity# / 5 6 57 8580 1 1 b 11 just ^simply :isn`t !tr\ue# - / 5 6 57 8590 1 1 m 12 ^now [@] *a ^little 'while ag/o#* / 5 6 57 8600 1 1 b 12 *((1 syll ^may ^may I)) 'go /on* a 'moment# . / 5 6 57 8610 1 1 b 20 **((1 syll))** / 5 6 57 8620 1 1 m 11 **oh** I`m ^so s/orry# / 5 6 57 8630 1 1 m 11 ^y/es# / 5 6 57 8640 1 1 m 11 *((you`ve))* . ^had f\ive 'minutes I th/ink# / 5 6 57 8650 1 1 m 11 but ^d\o cont/inue# / 5 6 57 8660 1 1 b 11 *[@:m]* ^f\ox'hunters# / 5 6 57 8670 1 1 b 11 as I ^s\ay# / 5 6 57 8680 1 2 b 11 are ^drawn from !\all 'sections of the / 5 6 57 8680 1 1 b 11 com:m/unity# - / 5 6 58 8690 1 1 b 11 ^=and# - . / 5 6 58 8700 1 1 b 11 they ^occupy !m\any _other# - . / 5 6 58 8710 1 1 b 11 re^sp\onsible po:s/itions# / 5 6 58 8720 1 1 b 11 in ^\all 'walks of l/ife# - / 5 6 58 8730 1 1 b 11 [?i] ^n\obody {^s\ays#}# / 5 6 58 8740 1 1 b 11 that a ^chap !c\an`t {^b\e#}# - / 5 6 58 8750 1 1 b 11 a ^Member of :P/arliament# / 5 6 58 8760 1 1 b 11 or a . ^Cabinet !M/inister# / 5 6 58 8770 1 1 b 11 or a ^m/agistrate# / 5 6 58 8780 1 1 b 11 be"^cause he`s a f/ox'hunter# - / 5 6 58 8790 1 1 b 11 in ^fact I !kn\ow# / 5 6 58 8800 1 2 b 11 of a ^very 'very . re:spected . pro!fessional / 5 6 58 8800 1 1 b 11 :h\/untsman# . / 5 6 58 8810 1 1 b 11 who has ^spent !all his :l\/ife# / 5 6 58 8820 1 1 b 11 ^in k/ennels# . / 5 6 58 8830 1 1 b 11 who ^on his re:t\/irement# / 5 6 58 8840 1 2 b 11 has been ^made a !m\agistrate - - {^quite / 5 6 58 8840 1 1 b 11 l\ately#}# / 5 6 59 8850 1 1 b 11 ^now that !doesn`t sug":g\est# . / 5 6 59 8860 1 1 b 11 that the ^local o:p\inion 'is# / 5 6 59 8870 1 1 b 11 that ^he`s . be'come any more !b/arbarous# / 5 6 59 8880 1 1 b 11 through ^being a pro:fessional _h/untsman# - / 5 6 59 8890 1 2 b 11 or ^less 'calculated to be 'able to look 'after his/ 5 6 59 8890 1 1 b 11 n/eighbours# . / 5 6 59 8900 1 1 b 11 if ^anything 'rather the c\ontrary# - - / 5 6 59 8910 1 2 m 11 ^I`ve been 'trying to make some :s\ense 'out of / 5 6 59 8910 1 1 m 11 'this# / 5 6 59 8920 1 1 m 11 I`m a^fraid I c\an`t# / 5 6 59 8930 1 1 d 12 *^\I`d go [s] . ^I`d go so f/ar# / 5 6 59 8940 2 1 d 21 as / 5 6 59 8950 1 1 m 20 *((12 to 15 sylls))* / 5 6 60 8940 1 1(d 11 to ^s/ay# / 5 6 60 8960 1 1 d 11 that the the the ^MF*:\/H# / 5 6 60 8970 1 2 d 11 [@] a^bout !twenty-:five to :thirty :years / 5 6 60 8970 1 1 d 11 a:g\/o# - / 5 6 60 8980 1 1 d 11 [@:] . perhaps ^not so 'much !n\/ow# / 5 6 60 8990 1 1 d 11 but ^he was reg/arded# / 5 6 60 9000 1 1 d 11 as the [wa] ^great 'man in the "c\ountry# . / 5 6 60 9010 1 1 d 11 ^he was resp\ected# . / 5 6 60 9020 1 1 d 11 be^c\ause# / 5 6 60 9030 1 1 d 11 ^he had a !great d\uty to perf/orm# / 5 6 60 9040 1 1 d 11 to the [?p] to the ^whole of his c\ountry# - / 5 6 60 9050 1 1 d 11 ^and *he* !d/id it# . / 5 6 60 9060 1 1 m 20 *[@:m]* / 5 6 60 9070 1 1(d 14 ^and !he was [@:] ^and ^and and and "^h\ence# . / 5 6 60 9080 1 1 d 11 ^hunting has 'gone "/\on# / 5 6 60 9090 1 1 d 11 from ^age to \age# - / 5 6 61 9100 1 1 m 11 ^n=ow# / 5 6 61 9110 1 1 m 11 I would ^like if I :m\/ay# / 5 6 61 9120 1 1 m 11 to ^turn to 'two p\oints# / 5 6 61 9130 1 1 m 11 ^first of /all# / 5 6 61 9140 1 2 m 11 you ^may have 'heard of :Captain 'Robert / 5 6 61 9140 1 1 m 11 Ch/urchwood# / 5 6 61 9150 1 1 m 11 ^M/C# . / 5 6 61 9160 1 1 m 12 who was a ^master of '[hau] ^master of h\ounds# / 5 6 61 9170 1 1 m 11 for ^thirty {y/ears} or s/o# . / 5 6 61 9180 1 1 m 11 has ^n\ow# / 5 6 61 9190 1 1 m 11 ^changed his :v\/iews# / 5 6 61 9200 1 1 m 11 having ^realized how "!utterly "f/ilthy# / 5 6 61 9210 1 1 m 11 de"^gr/ading# / 5 6 61 9220 1 1 m 11 and "^b\arbarous# / 5 6 61 9230 1 1 m 11 the ^whole 'thing "!/is# . / 5 6 61 9240 1 1 m 11 ^and has 'written ext\ensively a'bout it# . / 5 6 61 9250 1 1 m 11 and I can ^only s\/ay# / 5 6 61 9260 1 1 m 11 that ^Captain Ch/urchwood# / 5 6 61 9270 1 1 m 11 ^in his b\ook# / 5 6 61 9280 1 1 m 11 which I`ve ^got h\ere# / 5 6 61 9290 1 1 m 11 which you ^may 'care to r/ead# / 5 6 62 9300 1 1 m 11 if you have "^t/ime# . / 5 6 62 9310 1 1 m 11 does ^not conf\irm# / 5 6 62 9320 1 2 m 11 ^anything that '[du:] :you 'two 'gentlemen have / 5 6 62 9320 1 1 m 11 "!s\aid# . / 5 6 62 9330 1 1 m 11 so I`m a^fr\aid# / 5 6 62 9340 1 1 m 11 there`s a ^very w\ide# / 5 6 62 9350 1 1 m 11 ^di'vergence of o:p\/inion# / 5 6 62 9360 1 1 m 12 a^mong the 'hunts ^w\ell# / 5 6 62 9370 1 1 m 11 the ^hunts and the "!\ex-'hunts :p/eople# / 5 6 62 9380 1 1 m 11 them^s\elves# . / 5 6 62 9390 1 1 m 11 [@: @] there ^are some de!lightful \extracts# / 5 6 62 9400 1 1 m 11 from ^Captain _Ch/urchwood`s 'book# / 5 6 62 9410 1 1 m 11 that I would ^like to _r/ead to you# / 5 6 62 9420 1 1 m 11 but I`m a^fraid we 'haven`t got !t\ime# / 5 6 62 9430 1 1 m 11 so ^let us 'now :t\/urn# . / 5 6 62 9440 1 1 m 11 to the be^haviour of the h/untsmen# . / 5 6 63 9450 1 1 m 11 ^and in part/icular# . / 5 6 63 9460 1 1 m 11 to ^their eff/ects# / 5 6 63 9470 1 1 m 11 up^on y/oung p\eople# - / 5 6 63 9480 1 1 m 11 ^n=ow# / 5 6 63 9490 1 1 m 11 ^this 'practice of !bl\ooding ch/ildren# / 5 6 63 9500 1 1 m 11 ^strikes m/e# / 5 6 63 9510 1 1 m 11 as ^being !quite the most :b/arbarous# / 5 6 63 9520 1 1 m 11 and dis^g\usting pr/actice# / 5 6 63 9530 1 1 m 11 ^in the 'modern !w\orld# / 5 6 63 9540 1 1 d 11 but we ^all a!!gr\ee on 'that# / 5 6 63 9550 1 1 m 11 you would you op^pose bl\ooding# / 5 6 63 9560 1 1 b 11 ^y/es# / 5 6 63 9570 1 1 d 11 ^well of :c\ourse I 'do# . / 5 6 63 9580 2 1 d 22 *I / 5 6 63 9590 1 1 m 11 *you ^do* opp\ose 'blooding# / 5 6 63 9580 1 1(d 12 ^think* ^\I# . / 5 6 63 9600 1 1 d 11 ^w\ell# / 5 6 63 9610 1 1 d 11 I ^think it !\is a _barbarous _thing# / 5 6 64 9620 1 1 d 11 ^\I was bl/ooded# / 5 6 64 9630 1 1 d 11 when ^I was a ch/ild# - / 5 6 64 9640 1 1 d 11 but ^I had !no 'no 'alt\ernative# / 5 6 64 9650 1 1 d 11 but I ^probably enj\oyed it# / 5 6 64 9660 1 1 d 11 and was ^very !!pr\oud to be 'blooded# - / 5 6 64 9670 1 1 d 11 ^b\ut# / 5 6 64 9680 1 1 d 11 [@: @] as as a ^master of b/eagles# / 5 6 64 9690 1 2 d 12 I`m . ^I 'wouldn`t ^I 'wouldn`t 'blood a 'child / 5 6 64 9690 1 1 d 12 tod/ay# / 5 6 64 9700 2 1 d 21 because *they ^happened to be* 'up at the / 5 6 64 9710 1 1 b 11 *((^very w\ell#))* / 5 6 64 9700 1 1(d 11 !k/ill# / 5 6 64 9720 1 1 d 11 un^l\ess# . / 5 6 64 9730 1 1 d 11 the ^p\arents# / 5 6 64 9740 1 1 d 11 ((who)) ^w\/ished it# / 5 6 64 9750 1 1 d 11 I`d ^I think it`s a "h/\orrible 'thing# / 5 6 64 9760 1 1 d 11 it`s [@] ar^ch\aic# / 5 6 65 9770 1 1 d 11 it`s bar^b\aric# / 5 6 65 9780 1 1 m 11 well I`m ^very 'glad to 'hear you s\ay th/at# / 5 6 65 9790 1 2 m 11 and I have [s] a ^slightly 'less con'tempt for you / 5 6 65 9790 1 1 m 11 than I 'had ((when)) the 'start of this pr\ogramme#/ 5 6 65 9800 1 1 m 11 *and do ^you agr\ee with 'that Mr B/erry#* / 5 6 65 9810 1 1 b 11 *((oh ^I will a'gree we !want))* s\omething# / 5 6 65 9820 1 1 b 11 **^I \absolutely** agr/ee# / 5 6 65 9830 1 1 m 20 **((2 sylls))** / 5 6 65 9840 1 1(b 11 I ^never . n\ever# / 5 6 65 9850 1 1 b 11 ^have en'couraged \anybody {to be ^bl\ooded#}# / 5 6 65 9860 1 1 b 11 *. ((^I can s\ay that# / 5 6 65 9870 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#))* / 5 6 65 9880 1 1 m 11 *((well)) I`m ex^tremely gl\ad# / 5 6 66 9890 1 1 m 11 a^bout* th\at# - / 5 6 66 9900 1 1 m 11 ^n=ow# / 5 6 66 9910 1 1 m 11 [dhi:] ^s\econd 'thing# / 5 6 66 9920 1 1 m 11 ^I would !like to 'come to n/ow# / 5 6 66 9930 1 2 m 12 ^is 'your [f @:] ^is your 'fact that 'you have / 5 6 66 9930 1 1 m 12 for!bidden the :R'S'P'C\A# / 5 6 66 9940 1 1 m 11 to ^come /out# / 5 6 66 9950 1 1 m 11 a^gainst f\ox'hunting# / 5 6 66 9960 1 1 b 21 ^no / 5 6 66 9970 1 1 m 11 ^as you kn\ow# / 5 6 66 9980 1 1 m 11 ^foxh\unting# / 5 6 66 9990 2 1 m 21 *is / 5 6 6610000 1 1 ? 20 *((2 sylls))* / 5 6 66 9990 1 1(m 11 op^p/osed#* / 5 6 6610010 1 1 m 11 by the ^RS'PC\A# / 5 6 6610020 1 1 m 11 ^as a sp\ort# / 5 6 6610030 1 1 m 11 but they do ^not opp\ose **it# / 5 6 6610040 1 1 m 11 ((3 to 4 sylls ^2 sylls)) con!tr\ol#** / 5 6 6610050 1 1 b 11 **^Mr M\oore# / 5 6 6610060 1 1 b 11 ^l\ook 'here# / 5 6 6610070 1 2 b 11 this is ^not** . going to 'get 'on to the / 5 6 6610070 1 1 b 11 :p\olitics of th/is 'thing# / 5 6 6710080 1 1 b 11 ^we`re 'trying to 'find \out# / 5 6 6710090 1 1 b 11 about ^foxes and 'human b\eings# / 5 6 6710100 1 1 b 11 *((1 to 2 sylls))* **^n/o# / 5 6 6710110 1 1 m 11 *^I !\am#* / 5 6 6710120 1 1 m 11 and I`m ^just **. 'giving you an ex\/ample#** / 5 6 6710130 1 1(b 11 . it`s ^simply** n\o 'good# / 5 6 6710140 1 1 b 11 ^don`t for 'goodness :s\ake# / 5 6 6710150 1 1 b 11 ^go to your !wr\etched# / 5 6 6710160 1 1 b 11 quo^tations ag/ain# / 5 6 6710170 1 1 b 11 *((just ^stick to the f\acts#))* / 5 6 6710180 1 1 m 11 *I`m ^not g\oing to# / 5 6 6710190 1 2 m 11 I`m* ^going to (('give you them)) from my /own / 5 6 6710190 1 1 m 11 exp\erience# - / 5 6 6710200 1 1 m 11 ^as you kn\ow# / 5 6 6710210 1 1 m 11 the ^council of the 'RS'PC:\/A# / 5 6 6710220 1 1 m 11 does "^n\ot op'pose# / 5 6 6810230 1 1 m 11 [@:m] ^f/ox'hunting# / 5 6 6810240 1 1 m 11 the ^membership !d\oes# - / 5 6 6810250 1 1 m 11 "^th\/ere'fore# / 5 6 6810260 1 1 m 11 ^when . [@] on a ma"!j\ority# / 5 6 6810270 1 1 m 11 ^v\/ote# . / 5 6 6810280 1 1 m 11 at "^two extra:\ordinary 'meetings# / 5 6 6810290 1 1 m 11 con^v\ened for the p/urpose# . / 5 6 6810300 1 1 m 11 [dhi] ^c\ouncil# / 5 6 6810310 1 1 m 11 with their ^pro-foxhunting p\olicy# / 5 6 6810320 1 1 m 11 ^was de!f\/eated# . / 5 6 6810330 1 1 m 11 [@] ^by [@:] a !str\aight v/ote# / 5 6 6810340 1 1 m 11 although ^not by the :tw\o 'thirds# / 5 6 6810350 1 1 m 11 ma^jority r/ule# . / 5 6 6810360 1 1 m 11 ^Colonel Sir 'Ralph Cl/ark# / 5 6 6810370 1 1 m 11 who`s a ^dog 'pack l/eader# / 5 6 6810380 1 1 m 11 as you ^kn/ow# / 5 6 6810390 1 1 m 11 and ^treasurer of the :blood 'sports soc/iety# . / 5 6 6810400 1 1 m 11 ^/issued# / 5 6 6810410 1 1 m 11 an ap^p\/eal# / 5 6 6810420 1 1 m 11 to ^all 'huntsmen to :join the 'RS'PC!\A# - / 5 6 6910430 1 2 m 11 *(([@:] with the re^sult that they 'have now / 5 6 6910430 1 1 m 11 !sw\amped it#))* / 5 6 6910440 1 1 b 11 *Mr ^M\oore# / 5 6 6910450 1 1 b 11 I ^r\eally 'think#* / 5 6 6910460 1 1 b 11 this has ^absolutely :nothing to d/o# / 5 6 6910470 1 1 b 11 with the **^feelings of the** f\ox# . / 5 6 6910480 2 1 b 21 this is / 5 6 6910490 1 1 m 11 **it has ^/\everything to 'do with it#** / 5 6 6910480 1 1(b 21 ^absolutely / 5 6 6910500 1 1 d 22 ^what [u] 'I ^I [u] *((1 syll))* / 5 6 6910510 1 1 b 11 *Mr* ^Danby`s !c\ome 'here this :=evening# / 5 6 6910520 1 1 b 11 as a ^v\eterinary *s/urgeon# / 5 6 6910530 2 1 b 21 and* ^somebody who !kn\ows about / 5 6 6910540 1 1 d 20 *((3 to 4 sylls))* / 5 6 6910530 1 1(b 11 do:m=estic 'animals# / 5 6 6910550 1 1 b 11 and ^wild =animals# . / 5 6 7010560 1 1 b 11 to ^s=ay# / 5 6 7010570 1 1 b 11 ^whether there =is# / 5 6 7010580 1 1 b 11 a ^better alternative to h\unting# / 5 6 7010590 1 1 b 11 *because . ^going b\ack# / 5 6 7010600 1 1 b 20 to this* / 5 6 7010610 1 1 m 11 *I`ve ^just r\ead you# / 5 6 7010620 1 1 m 11 ^just g\iven you#* / 5 6 7010630 1 2 m 11 the ^Ministry of '[aeg] 'Agri**culture`s / 5 6 7010630 1 1 m 11 op/inions#** / 5 6 7010640 1 1 b 11 **^y\es# / 5 6 7010650 1 2 b 11 ^that !doesn`t** w\eigh with me 'very 'much *I`m / 5 6 7010650 1 1 b 11 afr/aid# / 5 6 7010660 1 1 b 11 ^n=o#* / 5 6 7010670 1 2 m 13 *^you don`t ^you don`t* ^you don`t trust the / 5 6 7010670 1 1 m 13 m\inistry# / 5 6 7010680 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# . / 5 6 7010690 1 1 b 11 I ^d\on`t# . / 5 6 7010700 1 1 b 11 I`ve **^s\een 'some of ((these 'chaps))#** / 5 6 7010710 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 7010720 1 1 m 12 **((^where d\oes one _go))** in ^other w/ords# / 5 6 7110730 1 1 m 11 ^you would s/ay# / 5 6 7110740 1 1 m 11 that the ^Ministry of 'Agric/ulture# / 5 6 7110750 1 1 m 11 ^is "!wr\ong# / 5 6 7110760 1 1 m 11 and you would ^set yourself 'up ag\ainst them# . / 5 6 7110770 1 1 b 11 ^I should s/ay# / 5 6 7110780 1 2 b 11 that [@:] ^I`ve had !much !more ex:p\erience {of / 5 6 7110780 1 1 b 11 ^shooting f\oxes#}# / 5 6 7110790 1 1 b 11 than a ^great m\any 'people# / 5 6 7110800 1 1 b 11 in the ^Ministry of \Agriculture# / 5 6 7110810 1 1 m 11 but ^would you a'gree with th\is# . / 5 6 7110820 1 1 m 11 ^when you sh\oot a f/ox# . / 5 6 7110830 1 1 m 11 the ^i!d=ea# / 5 6 7110840 1 1 m 11 ^is to !kill it . cl\/eanly# / 5 6 7110850 1 1 m 11 and with the ^minimum a'mount of s\uffering# . / 5 6 7110860 1 1 b 11 I`m ^w\ith you# / 5 6 7210870 1 1 m 11 in the ^case of f\/oxes# / 5 6 7210880 1 1 m 11 ^that is 'not the _c/ase# / 5 6 7210890 1 1 m 11 and we can ^also 'draw a :parallel h/ere# / 5 6 7210900 1 1 m 11 with a ^thing that I !kn\ow {^y\ou 'two#}# / 5 6 7210910 1 1 m 11 are ^very 'anxious ":n\ot to be m/entioned# . / 5 6 7210920 1 1 m 11 and ^that is !st\ag'hunting# / 5 6 7210930 1 1 m 11 the ^principles are ex:actly the s\ame# - / 5 6 7210940 1 1 m 11 ^of the tw/o# / 5 6 7210950 1 1 m 11 I sup^pose that st\ag_hunting# . / 5 6 7210960 1 1 m 11 ^well I :s=ay# / 5 6 7210970 1 1 m 11 in ^{pr\actice} it is "!sl\ightly the f/ouler# . / 5 6 7210980 1 1 m 11 for ex^\ample# / 5 6 7210990 1 1 m 11 ^when you 'have st\ags# / 5 6 7211000 1 1 m 11 ^dr\iven# / 5 6 7211010 2 1 m 21 in *^in and 'out of the / 5 6 7211020 1 1 d 11 *((no ^/oh#)) / 5 6 7211030 1 1 d 11 ^n/o#* / 5 6 7211040 1 1 d 11 ^n/o# / 5 6 7211050 1 1 d 20 it`s **((2 to 3 sylls))** / 5 6 7311010 1 1(m 11 s/ea#* / 5 6 7311060 1 1 m 11 **the ^principles** 'are the s\ame# / 5 6 7311070 1 1 m 11 now ^would you +agr\/ee then# / 5 6 7311080 1 1 m 11 that ^k/illing+ st\ags# / 5 6 7311090 1 1 m 11 by ^d/ogs# / 5 6 7311100 1 1 m 11 is the ^most !merciful **'way of d\oing it#** / 5 6 7311110 1 1 b 11 +^((oh)) 'yes \obviously#+ / 5 6 7311120 1 1 b 11 **^n=o# / 5 6 7311130 1 2 b 13 ^I`m we`re ^not** we`re ^here to dis'cuss / 5 6 7311130 1 1 b 13 f\oxhunting# / 5 6 7311140 1 1 b 20 *((4 to 5 sylls s\yll))* / 5 6 7311150 1 2 m 11 *I ^know you`re 'very* 'anxious ":n\ot to dis'cuss / 5 6 7311150 1 1 m 11 **(('stags ton/ight))#** / 5 6 7311160 1 1 d 11 **^n\o# / 5 6 7311170 1 1 d 11 but it ^isn`t** +a 'question of th\at#+ / 5 6 7411180 1 2 b 11 +((it`s ^simply 'coming 'back to that we`re))+ !not/ 5 6 7411180 1 1 b 11 !c\ompetent to 'judge# - / 5 6 7411190 1 1 b 11 ^stag'hunting *((is)) a 'different m\atter#* / 5 6 7411200 1 1 m 11 *but you ^\are# / 5 6 7411210 1 1 m 11 a ^member* of the 'blood 'sports soc/iety# / 5 6 7411220 1 1 m 11 ^are you n/ot# / 5 6 7411230 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# . / 5 6 7411240 1 1 b 11 I`m ^n/ot# - / 5 6 7411250 1 1 b 11 ((I)) ^never *!h\eard of the 'thing#* / 5 6 7411260 1 1 m 11 *I ^thought* you w/\ere# / 5 6 7411270 1 1 b 11 ^n/\o# / 5 6 7411280 1 1 b 11 **^n\o# / 5 6 7411290 1 1 b 11 ^n\o#** / 5 6 7411300 1 1 m 11 **oh I`m ^so s\orry#** / 5 6 7411310 1 1 m 11 the ^f\ield [spo]# . / 5 6 7411320 1 1 m 11 but [@] ^Roger *Br\aben# / 5 6 7411330 1 1 m 11 in his ((^syll !2 s\ylls#)) / 5 6 7411340 1 1 m 11 ^says we !mustn`t !c\all it# / 5 6 7511350 1 1 m 11 ((the)) ^bl\ood 'sports soc/iety#* / 5 6 7511360 1 1 b 11 *^n\ow# / 5 6 7511370 1 1 b 11 ((4 sylls)) . I ^want to 'ask 'Mr D\anby#* / 5 6 7511380 2 1 b 21 a ^few - qu\estions / 5 6 7511390 1 1 m 11 **^y\es#** . / 5 6 7511400 1 1 m 11 ^d\o# / 5 6 7511380 1 1(b 11 **{^pl\ease#}#** / 5 6 7511410 1 1 b 11 we`ve ^now ((got it)) s\ettled {^n\ow#}# / 5 6 7511420 1 1 b 11 ^h\aven`t we# / 5 6 7511430 1 1 b 11 that we`ve . as I ^s\/ay# / 5 6 7511440 1 1 b 11 ^got to . :put an 'end to the f\ox# - / 5 6 7511450 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# / 5 7 1 10 1 1 a 11 ^good \evening# . / 5 7 1 20 1 1 a 11 now to^n=ight# / 5 7 1 30 1 1 a 11 our ^guests are 'Barbara :H\ardy# / 5 7 1 40 1 1 a 11 who is pro^fessor of !\English# / 5 7 1 50 1 1 a 11 at ^Royal 'Holloway !C/ollege# . / 5 7 1 60 1 1 a 11 ^Stuart H/\all# / 5 7 1 70 1 1 a 11 who is a ^l=ecturer# / 5 7 1 80 1 2 a 11 at the ^centre for con:temporary :cultural / 5 7 1 80 1 1 a 11 !st\udies# / 5 7 1 90 1 1 a 11 at the ^Uni'versity of B/\irmingham# / 5 7 1 100 1 1 a 11 is ^th/at 'right# - / 5 7 1 110 1 1 a 11 ^what a 'title that \is# . / 5 7 1 120 1 1 a 11 and ^Fred Fl\ower# / 5 7 1 130 1 1 a 11 ^who is !n\ew to our 'programme# / 5 7 1 140 1 1 a 11 who is ^principal of !Kingsway C\ollege# . / 5 7 1 150 1 1 a 11 for ^f\urther educ/ation# / 5 7 1 160 1 2 a 11 ^which I((`d)) 'gather is !n\ot in 'Kingsway in / 5 7 1 160 1 1 a 11 L=ondon# / 5 7 1 170 1 1 a 11 but is ^somewhere 'near 'King`s !!Cr\oss# - / 5 7 1 180 1 1 a 11 per^haps 'so he can 'make a :rapid es!c\ape# - / 5 7 1 190 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - it ^struck 'me ton\ight# / 5 7 1 200 1 1 a 11 ^after the 'death of 'Bertrand :R\ussell# / 5 7 1 210 1 1 a 11 that I would ^r\eally 'like us to th/ink# / 5 7 1 220 1 2 a 11 about a ^problem that has :worried 'me for a :long / 5 7 1 220 1 1 a 11 t\ime# - / 5 7 2 230 1 1 a 11 ^Russell is re'ported to have "s\aid# . / 5 7 2 240 1 1 a 11 ^that he was !never the 'same ag\ain# / 5 7 2 250 1 1 a 11 ^intel!l\ectually# / 5 7 2 260 1 2 a 11 ^after he 'wrote that 'great 'book with / 5 7 2 260 1 1 a 11 :Wh\itehead# / 5 7 2 270 1 2 a 11 the ^kind of 'journey that he :went on in his / 5 7 2 270 1 1 a 11 :m\ind# / 5 7 2 280 1 1 a 11 ^th\en# / 5 7 2 290 1 1 a 11 was the ^sort of 'journey which :l\eaves you# - / 5 7 2 300 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - if not "^m\utilated# / 5 7 2 310 1 1 a 11 at ^least 'just sort of !t\ired# / 5 7 2 320 1 1 a 11 for^ever \after# / 5 7 2 330 1 1 a 11 and ^I`ve ((`ve)) 'often :w\ondered# / 5 7 2 340 1 1 a 11 and ^it`s a :great !c\onflict# / 5 7 2 350 1 1 a 11 ^p\ersonally# / 5 7 2 360 1 1 a 11 between ^what I en!joy 'doing mys\elf# / 5 7 2 370 1 1 a 11 and ^what I 'do for a !l\iving# . / 5 7 2 380 1 1 a 11 ^whether 'underst\anding# / 5 7 2 390 1 1 a 11 is ^s\omething that# . / 5 7 2 400 1 1 a 11 ^really be'longs 'only to yours\elf# / 5 7 3 410 1 2 a 11 that if you ^r\eally 'want to under{^st\and / 5 7 3 410 1 1 a 11 'something#}# / 5 7 3 420 1 1 a 11 it`s a ^journey 'on your \own# . / 5 7 3 430 1 1 a 11 and the ^satisf\action# / 5 7 3 440 1 1 a 11 is a ^satisf\action# / 5 7 3 450 1 1 a 11 that you ^can`t sh\are# / 5 7 3 460 1 1 a 11 with ^anyone /else# / 5 7 3 470 1 1 a 11 and the ^under!st\anding# - / 5 7 3 480 1 2 a 11 is ^something that you 'can`t 'share with 'anyone / 5 7 3 480 1 1 a 11 \else# . / 5 7 3 490 1 1 a 11 and ^y/et# / 5 7 3 500 1 1 a 11 if ^you`re . a j/ourna'list# / 5 7 3 510 1 1 a 11 and ^even . !!m\ore# / 5 7 3 520 1 1 a 11 if you`re a ^t\eacher of 'some k/ind# / 5 7 3 530 1 1 a 11 ^your !under'standing !m\ust be sh/ared# / 5 7 3 540 1 2 a 11 because ^that`s what you`re _in the _business / 5 7 3 540 1 1 a 11 !f\or# / 5 7 3 550 1 1 a 11 ^you en'deavour to 'underst/and 'something# / 5 7 3 560 1 2 a 11 and ^then you 'want to . com!{m\unicate it} to / 5 7 3 560 1 1 a 11 ":s\omebody# . / 5 7 3 570 1 1 a 11 ^/and# - / 5 7 3 580 1 1 a 11 ^this 'great !c\onflict# / 5 7 4 590 1 1 a 11 be^tween the tw/o# . / 5 7 4 600 1 1 a 11 ^is the :subject I :want to :put bef\ore you# . / 5 7 4 610 1 1 a 11 [@:m] and ^as you`re the n/ewcomer 'Fred# / 5 7 4 620 1 1 a 11 you can ^st\art# - / 5 7 4 630 1 1 b 11 I ^th\ink you`ve# / 5 7 4 640 1 1 b 11 ^summed 'up the di!l\emma# / 5 7 4 650 1 1 b 11 that ^most of us !f\ind our'selves /in# - / 5 7 4 660 1 1 b 11 [@] ^\admirably# / 5 7 4 670 1 1 b 11 the ^r\eal 'trouble 'is# / 5 7 4 680 1 1 b 11 that . ^we are :all u"!nique p/eople# / 5 7 4 690 1 1 b 11 we ^have our !\own exp/erience# / 5 7 4 700 1 1 b 11 we ^work with!\in our ex:p/erience# / 5 7 4 710 1 1 b 11 and ^that`s what we !kn\ow a'bout# . / 5 7 4 720 1 1 b 11 ^we 'look !\outwards from 'ours/elves# / 5 7 4 730 1 1 b 11 and we ^have to !d\eal with 'other :p/eople# . / 5 7 4 740 1 1 b 11 ^and we can !\only comm/uni'cate# / 5 7 4 750 1 1 b 11 ^through the w/ay# / 5 7 4 760 1 1 b 11 in ^which we "!sh\are {with ^other p\eople#}# / 5 7 4 770 1 1 b 11 un^less we 'actually :share !f/eelings# - / 5 7 5 780 1 1 b 11 ^and . ex!p\erience with 'other :p/eople# / 5 7 5 790 1 1 b 11 we ^can`t com!m\unicate# . / 5 7 5 800 1 1 b 11 and it ^d\oes seem to :m/e# / 5 7 5 810 1 1 b 11 that in ^\one 'sense# / 5 7 5 820 1 1 b 11 [dhi:] . the ^big di!l\emma# / 5 7 5 830 1 1 b 11 of the ^present !t\ime# / 5 7 5 840 1 1 b 11 the ^d/ifference# - / 5 7 5 850 1 1 b 11 po^l/itically# / 5 7 5 860 1 2 b 11 the ^difference [@ - @:] in !terms of . !r\acial / 5 7 5 860 1 1 b 11 'differences# / 5 7 5 870 1 1 b 11 and ^s\o on# / 5 7 5 880 1 1 b 11 ^is be'cause we !c\an`t sh/are# / 5 7 5 890 1 1 b 11 that ^p\ersonal exp/erience# / 5 7 5 900 1 1 b 11 that ^you`ve been !t\alking a'bout# / 5 7 5 910 1 1 c 11 and I sup^pose !\also be'cause# - / 5 7 5 920 1 1 c 11 "^\at this m/oment# / 5 7 5 930 1 2 c 11 there`s [dhi:] ^maximum 'oppor:tunity !f\or / 5 7 5 930 1 1 c 11 'sharing# / 5 7 5 940 1 1 c 11 [?] we ^h\ave [dhi:]# . / 5 7 5 950 1 1 c 11 the ^m\edia# / 5 7 5 960 1 1 c 11 ^f\or com'muni'cation# / 5 7 5 970 1 1 c 12 ^and [dhi:] the ^d\anger# / 5 7 5 980 1 2 c 11 which . ^seems to be . :felt very !s\ensitively I / 5 7 5 980 1 1 c 11 _think# . / 5 7 6 990 1 1 c 11 ^if you`re a !!t\eacher {in par^t\icular#}# . / 5 7 6 1000 1 2 c 11 ^is 'that . the !sharing should be'come / 5 7 6 1000 1 1 c 11 !st\ereotyped# . / 5 7 6 1010 1 2 c 11 that [i] in^stead of com'muni'cating :what you / 5 7 6 1010 1 1 c 11 'call . the u!n\iqueness# . / 5 7 6 1020 1 1 c 11 we com^muni'cate :s\omething# . / 5 7 6 1030 1 1 c 11 ^that is 'so !g\eneralized# / 5 7 6 1040 1 1 c 11 ^that !r\eally# / 5 7 6 1050 1 1 c 11 there`s ^part of :y\ou# / 5 7 6 1060 1 1 c 11 ^that`s [?] !g\one on the j/ourney# / 5 7 6 1070 1 1 c 11 or ^g\oing {on the ^j\ourney#}# . / 5 7 6 1080 1 1 c 11 that`s ^not a!v\ailable# / 5 7 6 1090 1 1 c 11 in the ^\actual# / 5 7 6 1100 1 1 c 11 ^process of com'muni!c\ation# / 5 7 6 1110 1 1 a 11 well ^St\uart# / 5 7 6 1120 1 1 a 11 d`you ^think !r\eally 'though# / 5 7 6 1130 1 1 a 11 ^\all you can 'share# / 5 7 6 1140 1 1 a 11 is the "^m\ap {^rather than the j\ourney#}# - / 5 7 7 1150 1 1 d 11 ^w\ell [@m]# / 5 7 7 1160 1 1 d 11 I`m ^not s\ure about 'that# / 5 7 7 1170 1 1 d 11 I "^th\ink it [@]# / 5 7 7 1180 1 2 d 11 it ^has a :lot to 'do with 'what the :nature of the/ 5 7 7 1180 1 1 d 11 :journey !\is# / 5 7 7 1190 1 1 d 11 I ^mean in !R\ussell`s 'case# / 5 7 7 1200 1 1 d 11 [@] you know ^that 'early b\ook# / 5 7 7 1210 1 1 d 11 is a ^v\ery {^{c\omplicated} \one#}# / 5 7 7 1220 1 1 d 11 [wi] I ^mean ((even \I))# / 5 7 7 1230 1 1 d 11 I ^couldn`t even !sum it !\up# / 5 7 7 1240 1 2 d 11 ((as it were)) I ^couldn`t even 'give you the . / 5 7 7 1240 1 1 d 11 'vague !\outlines# / 5 7 7 1250 1 1 d 11 of ^what the 'map !w\as . as *it 'were# / 5 7 7 1260 2 1 d 21 and I`d* / 5 7 7 1270 1 1 c 20 *((2 to 3 sylls))* **((1 syll))** / 5 7 7 1260 1 2(d 11 and I`d . and **I** ^don`t know 'what sort of / 5 7 7 1260 1 1(d 11 :impact it !h\ad# / 5 7 7 1280 1 1 d 11 on ^his 'own . *'later* !l\ife# / 5 7 8 1290 1 1 a 11 *as a* ^tiny little qu\iz 'game# / 5 7 8 1300 1 1 a 11 ^just for a m\oment# / 5 7 8 1310 1 1 a 11 ^have !any of us :actually r\ead# . / 5 7 8 1320 1 1 d 11 ^n\o# / 5 7 8 1330 1 1(a 11 Prin^c\ipia# / 5 7 8 1340 2 1 a 22 [mae*th@^m\aet@]* / 5 7 8 1350 1 1 d 11 *^n\o#* / 5 7 8 1360 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# / 5 7 8 1340 1 1(a 12 well ^{I had a :g\o} at :C\ambridge# / 5 7 8 1370 1 1 a 11 and I ^got about !half-way :thr\ough# / 5 7 8 1380 1 1 a 11 and ^gave up ex:h\austed# / 5 7 8 1390 1 1 a 11 and un^\able to# . / 5 7 8 1400 1 1 a 11 I mean ^t\otally {and ^\utterly#}# . / 5 7 8 1410 1 1 a 11 be^w\ildered# - / 5 7 8 1420 1 1 d 11 well ^n\ow you 'see# / 5 7 8 1430 1 1 d 11 I ^th\ink I 'mean# / 5 7 8 1440 1 2 d 11 ^if the 'explo'ration 'is on ":th\at kind of / 5 7 8 1440 1 1 d 11 {^c\omplex#}# / 5 7 9 1450 1 2 d 11 ^{philo!s\ophical} {l\ogical} {'mathem\atical} / 5 7 9 1450 1 1 d 11 :l\evel# - / 5 7 9 1460 1 1 d 11 I`m ^s\ure it`s 'true# / 5 7 9 1470 1 1 d 11 that in ^\any 'case# / 5 7 9 1480 1 2 d 12 ^v\ery [f dh@] there are ^very few :people to :whom/ 5 7 9 1480 1 1 d 12 you would 'even be !\able to com'municate it# / 5 7 9 1490 1 1 d 11 ^even if :that`s what you !w\anted to 'do# / 5 7 9 1500 1 1 d 11 so the ^journey !\is {^very l\onely#}# - / 5 7 9 1510 1 1 d 12 ^but [@:] I ^wonder 'whether it`s tr\ue# / 5 7 9 1520 1 1 d 11 a^bout a !lot of . :\other 'kinds of {^w\ork#}# / 5 7 9 1530 1 1 d 11 that the ^journey is !quite as indi:v\idual# / 5 7 9 1540 1 1 d 11 as ^people have been !s\aying# / 5 7 9 1550 1 2 d 12 ((I)) mean ^may((be)) per^haps I`m just . :either / 5 7 9 1550 1 1 d 12 !l\ucky# / 5 7 9 1560 1 2 d 12 ^or ((sort of)) ^not very 'good at / 5 7 9 1560 1 1 d 12 'self-explo!r\ation# / 5 7 9 1570 1 2 d 11 but - in the ^work that I`ve been :{d\oing with} / 5 7 9 1570 1 1 d 11 gr\aduate 'students# / 5 7 10 1580 1 1 d 11 in the ^last 'two or three :y\ears# / 5 7 10 1590 1 1 d 11 I ^find it !almost im!p\ossible# / 5 7 10 1600 1 1 d 12 to ^s\eparate - my ^{\own} - 'explor\ations# / 5 7 10 1610 1 1 d 11 ^fr/om# / 5 7 10 1620 1 1 d 11 the ^work that we`re 'doing to:g\ether# . / 5 7 10 1630 1 1 ? 11 *^[\mm]#* / 5 7 10 1640 1 2(d 11 *I mean* that`s "^not to 'say that they`re / 5 7 10 1640 1 1(d 11 _thinking as !\I 'do# / 5 7 10 1650 1 1 d 11 or ^vice !v\ersa# - / 5 7 10 1660 1 1 d 11 but it`s ^so 'closely 'tied tog/ether# / 5 7 10 1670 1 1 d 11 and it`s ^so 'closely inv/olved# / 5 7 10 1680 1 1 d 11 with ^trying 'to - com'municate what \I`ve 'been# / 5 7 10 1690 1 1 d 11 ^reading or 'thinking a'bout to :th/em# / 5 7 10 1700 1 1 d 11 and ^try to 'get 'things !b\ack# . / 5 7 10 1710 1 2 d 12 that I ^find ((them)) !much . [@] I ^would w\ant to/ 5 7 10 1710 1 1 d 12 de_scribe it# / 5 7 11 1720 1 2 d 11 in a ^much l\ess indi'vidual 'personal . / 5 7 11 1720 1 1 d 11 :{^s\earch#}# / 5 7 11 1730 1 1 d 11 ^k\inds of 'terms# / 5 7 11 1740 1 2 d 11 from the ^way 'which 'other 'people have been / 5 7 11 1740 1 1 d 11 !t\alking about *it*# / 5 7 11 1750 1 2 b 12 *^yeah* but 'you`ve ^you and your :{st\udents} are / 5 7 11 1750 1 1 b 12 "sh\aring# / 5 7 11 1760 1 1 b 11 a ^great 'deal al!r\eady# / 5 7 11 1770 1 1 b 11 [@?@m] ^y\ou are in f/act {if you ^l/ike#}# / 5 7 11 1780 1 1 b 11 en^gaged on a a "c\ommon# / 5 7 11 1790 1 1 b 11 [@:] ^explor/ation# / 5 7 11 1800 1 1 b 11 but you al^ready :have a !great 'deal in :c\ommon# / 5 7 11 1810 1 1 b 11 which en^\ables _you to# / 5 7 11 1820 1 1 b 11 to com^m\unicate . {with ^\one an'other#}# . / 5 7 11 1830 1 1 b 11 ^what 'bothers m\/e# / 5 7 11 1840 1 1 b 11 ^is . the !bigger :s\ocial# / 5 7 11 1850 1 1 b 12 and ^cultural [difr @] ^d\istances# / 5 7 11 1860 1 1 b 11 which ^separate !\out p/eople# / 5 7 11 1870 1 1 b 11 and pre^v\ent# / 5 7 12 1880 1 1 b 11 ^that 'kind of ex!ch\ange# . / 5 7 12 1890 1 1 b 11 [@m] ^I`ve h\eard# / 5 7 12 1900 1 1 b 11 in the ^l/ast# / 5 7 12 1910 1 1 b 11 four ^y\ears# / 5 7 12 1920 1 1 b 11 some ^five . 'ministers of 'cabinet r/ank# / 5 7 12 1930 1 1 b 11 ^t/alking# / 5 7 12 1940 1 1 b 11 to "^rank and _file 'people in the :Labour P\arty# / 5 7 12 1950 1 1 b 11 at ^various :m\eetings# / 5 7 12 1960 1 1 b 11 ^where - [@m ?] !real 'disagr\eements# / 5 7 12 1970 1 1 b 11 have ^br\oken 'out# / 5 7 12 1980 1 1 b 11 be^tw\een# / 5 7 12 1990 1 1 b 11 the ^pl\atform# / 5 7 12 2000 1 1 b 11 and the ^p\eople# / 5 7 12 2010 1 1 b 11 on the ^fl\/oor# - / 5 7 12 2020 1 2 b 11 and the ^disa'greement has "!not only been :matters/ 5 7 12 2020 1 1 b 11 of !s\ubstance# / 5 7 12 2030 1 1 b 11 but ^very l/argely be'cause# - / 5 7 12 2040 1 1 b 11 [@] the ^platform 'hasn`t under:st\ood# / 5 7 12 2050 1 1 b 11 what the ^people on the !gr\ound are s/aying# . / 5 7 12 2060 1 2 b 11 ^and the !{people on the gr\ound} simply !h\aven`t / 5 7 12 2060 1 1 b 11 under'stood# / 5 7 12 2070 1 1 b 11 ^what the !pl\atform are 'saying# / 5 7 13 2080 1 1 b 11 ^so - the !argument has b/een# / 5 7 13 2090 1 1 b 11 ^one of !words and !f\eelings# / 5 7 13 2100 1 1 b 11 ^and that the "!r\eal# / 5 7 13 2110 1 1 b 11 "^p\oints of d/ifference# / 5 7 13 2120 1 1 b 11 ^haven`t even had a 'chance to e!m\erge# / 5 7 13 2130 1 1 a 11 ^can we ex'amine 'this then . 'more c\arefully# - / 5 7 13 2140 1 1 a 11 a ^m/an [@] {of ^cabinet r/ank#}# / 5 7 13 2150 1 2 a 11 is ^standing on a 'platform and is 'speaking to an / 5 7 13 2150 1 1 a 11 :\audience# . / 5 7 13 2160 1 1 a 12 and ^they are ^th\ey you _say# / 5 7 13 2170 1 1 a 11 are "^not 'under'standing 'what he`s :s\aying# / 5 7 13 2180 1 2 a 11 and you ^said it`s a _difference of !feeling 'and / 5 7 13 2180 1 1 a 11 of :w\ords# / 5 7 13 2190 1 2 a 11 we`ll ^take `em 'one at a 'time let`s 'take the / 5 7 13 2190 1 1 a 11 !words f\irst# . / 5 7 13 2200 1 1 a 11 ^is it 'simply !f\irst of 'all# / 5 7 13 2210 1 1 a 11 that the ^kind of vo'cabulary that he \/uses# . / 5 7 14 2220 1 1 a 11 to ex^press his th/oughts# / 5 7 14 2230 1 1 a 11 is a vo^c\/abulary# / 5 7 14 2240 1 1 a 11 that is "^\/alien# . / 5 7 14 2250 1 1 a 11 to his ^\audience# - / 5 7 14 2260 1 1 b 11 it`s ^partly a 'question of vo:c\/abulary# / 5 7 14 2270 1 1 b 11 it`s ^partly !\/also# / 5 7 14 2280 1 1 b 11 a ^question of !all the . un:sp\oken c/ues# / 5 7 14 2290 1 1 b 11 which ^he is r\/adiating# / 5 7 14 2300 1 1 b 11 when he ^sp\eaks# - / 5 7 14 2310 1 1 b 11 ^more im!!p\ortant# / 5 7 14 2320 1 1 b 11 it`s ^his re[?]{\action} to the :\audience# / 5 7 14 2330 1 1 b 11 ^when a :member of the !audience 'stands :\up# / 5 7 14 2340 1 1 b 11 to ^question :something he`s !s\aid# - - / 5 7 14 2350 1 1 b 11 in^stead of s\eeing# / 5 7 14 2360 1 1 b 11 that ^that p\erson# / 5 7 14 2370 1 1 b 11 ^is [@m] . :\indicating# / 5 7 14 2380 1 1 b 11 a "^misunderst\anding# / 5 7 14 2390 1 1 b 11 ^through . "!n\on-'verbal c/ues# / 5 7 14 2400 1 2 b 11 [dhi:] ^way in 'which he . !\utters 'certain / 5 7 14 2400 1 1 b 11 th/ings# - / 5 7 14 2410 1 1 b 11 [@] the ^person on the :pl\atform# / 5 7 15 2420 1 1 b 11 "^\used 'to# . / 5 7 15 2430 1 2 b 11 [@:] a ^fairly intel:lectual :l\evel of / 5 7 15 2430 1 1 b 11 'convers/ation# / 5 7 15 2440 1 1 b 11 ^will !take the :words !as 'they :c\ome# / 5 7 15 2450 1 1 b 11 ^from the 'person 'on the fl\oor# / 5 7 15 2460 1 1 b 11 and "^d\eal with _them# / 5 7 15 2470 1 1 b 11 as ^if he were d/ealing with# / 5 7 15 2480 1 1 b 11 ((a)) ^person of his :own !c\alibre# - / 5 7 15 2490 1 1 a 11 I`m ^not 'sure that I :under!st\and 'that# / 5 7 15 2500 1 1 a 11 do ^y/ou# . / 5 7 15 2510 1 1 c 11 ^w\ell# - / 5 7 15 2520 1 1 c 11 it ^seems to 'me that :p\artly# / 5 7 15 2530 1 1 c 11 it`s - ^very d\ifferent# / 5 7 15 2540 1 1 c 11 from ^St\uart`s ex'ample {for ^\instance#}# / 5 7 15 2550 1 2 c 11 which was an ex^ample from !gr\aduate / 5 7 15 2550 1 1 c 11 {^t\eaching#}# . / 5 7 15 2560 1 1 c 11 ^where you \are# . / 5 7 15 2570 1 1 c 11 ^c\ertainly# . / 5 7 15 2580 1 1 c 11 ^t\alking to _people# . / 5 7 15 2590 1 1 c 11 who ^=are# . / 5 7 16 2600 1 2 c 11 ^very !{{l\ike your'self} in m\ind} and in / 5 7 16 2600 1 1 c 11 intel:lectual ex:p\erience# / 5 7 16 2610 1 2 c 12 now ^this seems to 'me to be !p\artly perhaps - a ./ 5 7 16 2610 1 1 c 12 ^qu\estion of# . / 5 7 16 2620 1 1 c 11 (([sp])) ^talking to :str\angers# / 5 7 16 2630 1 1 c 11 but it`s "^\also {^talking to :str\angers#}# . / 5 7 16 2640 1 1 c 11 pre^s\umably# . / 5 7 16 2650 1 1 c 11 on a very ^urgent !m\atter# / 5 7 16 2660 1 1 c 11 so that the com^muni!c\ation# / 5 7 16 2670 1 1 c 11 ^is 'both . !p\ublic# / 5 7 16 2680 1 1 c 11 ^\and 'yet# . / 5 7 16 2690 1 1 c 11 ^full of !f\eeling as you 'say# / 5 7 16 2700 1 1 c 11 it`s it`s ^desperately im!p\ortant# / 5 7 16 2710 1 1 c 11 ^\and# / 5 7 16 2720 1 2 c 11 these ^two 'things 'seem per:haps to 'be . :very / 5 7 16 2720 1 1 c 11 un!c\omfortably# / 5 7 16 2730 1 1 c 11 per^haps al:most im:possibly com!b\ined# . / 5 7 16 2740 1 2 a 11 ^that 'makes it 'all 'sound as 'though it`s a :kind/ 5 7 16 2740 1 1 a 11 of !t\ennis 'club# / 5 7 17 2750 1 1 a 11 you ^kn\ow# / 5 7 17 2760 1 1 a 11 [@] ^((Stuart [@ @ b])) 'lives in a t\ennis 'club# / 5 7 17 2770 1 1 a 11 where they ^all 'underst\and# / 5 7 17 2780 1 1 a 11 they ^all 'turn 'up in the :right g\ear# . / 5 7 17 2790 1 1 a 11 ^intell\ectually as it _were# / 5 7 17 2800 1 1 a 11 and they ^pat the 'ball :backwards and f\orwards# / 5 7 17 2810 1 1 a 11 and they`re ^all 'quite h\appy# . / 5 7 17 2820 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - . but ^if you 'go :\out of the 'tennis / 5 7 17 2820 1 1 a 11 cl/ub# / 5 7 17 2830 1 1 a 11 and ^move into the 'kind of !r\ough-'neck# . / 5 7 17 2840 1 1 a 11 ^football 'ground round the !c\orner# / 5 7 17 2850 1 1 a 11 which ^in a s\ense# / 5 7 17 2860 1 1 a 11 is ^what the !m\inister is d/oing# / 5 7 17 2870 1 1 a 11 then it`s (([j@])) you ^kn/ow# / 5 7 17 2880 1 1 a 11 it`s a ^different g\ame# / 5 7 17 2890 1 1 a 11 and it [@ ju] you ^can`t 'get to!g\ether# . / 5 7 17 2900 1 2 a 11 which ^makes it 'sound 'almost 'like a 'kind of / 5 7 17 2900 1 1 a 11 ":cl\ass 'thing# - / 5 7 17 2910 1 1 d 11 well ((I)) I ^don`t 'think it`s a cl\ass 'thing# / 5 7 18 2920 1 1 d 12 I ^think it`s a it`s ((had)) ^s\omething to 'do# / 5 7 18 2930 1 2 d 11 with the ^different :kind of !{f\unctional} / 5 7 18 2930 1 1 d 11 p\urpose# / 5 7 18 2940 1 1 d 11 [@] for ^which one`s !\using the 'language# / 5 7 18 2950 2 1 d 21 *((I mean))* / 5 7 18 2960 1 1 ? 11 *^[\mm]#* / 5 7 18 2970 1 1 c 11 **^y\es#** / 5 7 18 2950 1 1(d 11 **you ^start**ed 'off with :R\ussell# *-* / 5 7 18 2980 1 1 a 11 *^y/es#* / 5 7 18 2990 1 1 ? 11 *^[\mhm]#* / 5 7 18 3000 1 2(d 13 ^that [@ ?] I ^mean . ^self-'explo'ration and / 5 7 18 3000 1 1(d 13 :explo'ration in a !small gr\oup# / 5 7 18 3010 1 1 d 11 at "^that 'level of compl\exity and _so on# / 5 7 18 3020 1 2 d 11 is "^bound ((to)) it :seems to 'me to :generate / 5 7 18 3020 1 1 d 11 !special :l\anguages# / 5 7 19 3030 1 1 d 12 I ^mean . you just "^need 'short:hand t\erms# / 5 7 19 3040 1 2 d 11 you (([@n])) you ^don`t have to ex!plain the _basic/ 5 7 19 3040 1 1 d 11 _c/oncepts# / 5 7 19 3050 1 2 d 11 ^or in!deed a 'whole [hist] :history of :thought / 5 7 19 3050 1 1 d 11 *be:*h/ind them# / 5 7 19 3060 2 1 d 21 you ^simply / 5 7 19 3070 1 1 ? 20 *[m]* / 5 7 19 3060 1 1(d 11 want to !say to the 'other m/an# / 5 7 19 3080 1 1 d 11 well ^I`_m I`_m 'I`m in !th\is 'game# *-* / 5 7 19 3090 1 1 ? 11 *^[mh\m]#* / 5 7 19 3100 1 2(d 11 and "^that seems to me to 'generate ((a)) :certain / 5 7 19 3100 1 1(d 11 number of :cl\osed l/anguages# / 5 7 19 3110 1 1 d 11 which - [@:m] are ^n\ecessary# / 5 7 19 3120 1 2 d 11 for ^{people who are t\alking} within the 'same / 5 7 19 3120 1 1 d 11 sort of :\universe# / 5 7 20 3130 1 1 ? 20 *[mm]* / 5 7 20 3140 1 1(d 11 *now* ^when you 'get to :Fr\ed`s ex_ample# / 5 7 20 3150 1 3 d 11 of the [pm] ^Cabinet :Minister and the :rank and / 5 7 20 3150 1 2 d 11 file 'people at [l@:] at a at a [p] po:litical / 5 7 20 3150 1 1 d 11 :party :m\eeting# / 5 7 20 3160 1 1 d 11 you`re ^dealing with 'something :\else# . / 5 7 20 3170 1 1 d 11 where the com^muni!c\ation of i'deas# / 5 7 20 3180 1 1 d 11 is ^{m\ore im'portant} than :self-explor\ation# *-*/ 5 7 20 3190 1 1 ? 11 *^[/@h@]#* / 5 7 20 3200 1 2(d 11 and "^there it 'seems to 'me that 'you`d you`d have/ 5 7 20 3200 1 1(d 11 !tw\o 'problems# / 5 7 20 3210 1 1 d 11 ^\one _is# / 5 7 20 3220 1 2 d 11 that [@] . you ^do !still h\ave {^private / 5 7 20 3220 1 1 d 11 l\anguages#}# / 5 7 20 3230 1 1 d 11 pro^f\essional _languages# / 5 7 20 3240 1 1 d 11 a ^language of [@] :p\arty exper_tise# / 5 7 21 3250 1 1 d 11 or ^minis'terial 'expert\ise# / 5 7 21 3260 2 1 d 21 a kind of . ^{techno!l\ogical} / 5 7 21 3270 1 1 ? 20 *[m]* / 5 7 21 3260 1 1(d 11 *[@:m]* [@:] 'bureau!cr\atic 'kind of 'language# / 5 7 21 3280 1 1 d 11 for ^d\ealing with pr/oblems# . / 5 7 21 3290 1 2 d 11 ^and you :have the !f\eelings that 'Barbara was / 5 7 21 3290 1 1 d 11 'talking a'bout# / 5 7 21 3300 1 1 d 11 which is "^v\ery 'true# / 5 7 21 3310 1 1 d 11 of ^any 'kind of po_litical !g\athering# - / 5 7 21 3320 1 1 d 11 now ^what I :w\onder# / 5 7 21 3330 1 2 d 11 is ^whether - the !problem in communi'cation . / 5 7 21 3330 1 1 d 11 oc:c\urs# / 5 7 21 3340 1 1 d 11 ^[ei] because 'people don`t :under!st\and# / 5 7 21 3350 1 1 d 11 the ^actual !technical m\eanings# / 5 7 21 3360 1 2 d 11 ^and [@:?] sig'nificance of the !thing the / 5 7 21 3360 1 1 d 11 'minister is !s\aying# / 5 7 21 3370 1 1 ? 11 ^[/m]# / 5 7 22 3380 1 1(d 21 . or ^whether it is((n`t)) 'something more / 5 7 22 3390 1 1 d 11 im!p\ortant than 'that ^\/I think# / 5 7 22 3400 1 2 d 12 ^which 'is 'that in !s\ome of ^s\ome of these / 5 7 22 3400 1 1 d 12 _situations# / 5 7 22 3410 1 2 d 11 the ^actual 'meanings of the 'words are / 5 7 22 3410 1 1 d 11 !!sh\ifting# . / 5 7 22 3420 1 1 d 11 ^that`s to say when !he says :pl\anning# - / 5 7 22 3430 1 2 d 11 and the ^ordinary 'bloke on the :Labour Party / 5 7 22 3430 1 1 d 11 'floor says pl/anning# . / 5 7 22 3440 1 1 d 11 they`re ^using the same w\/ords# / 5 7 22 3450 1 1 d 11 but they`re ^talking a'bout 'different :th\ings# / 5 7 22 3460 1 1 ? 11 *^t\otally#* / 5 7 22 3470 1 1(d 11 *and they`re* ^talking a'bout s=omething# / 5 7 22 3480 1 1 d 11 which has a "^very powerful e:motional hist/orical#/ 5 7 22 3490 1 1 d 11 ^charge in the 'Labour !m\ovement# . / 5 7 22 3500 1 1 d 12 ^so the [dis] the ^qu\arrel# / 5 7 23 3510 1 1 d 11 ^looks as 'if it`s a'bout w/\ords# / 5 7 23 3520 1 1 d 11 it`s ^not only a'bout . w/ords# / 5 7 23 3530 1 1 d 11 ^it`s about !f\eelings# / 5 7 23 3540 1 1 d 11 and ^it`s a'bout !h\istory# / 5 7 23 3550 1 1 d 11 ^it`s a'bout in:terpre'tation of a !wh=ole . [m ?]#/ 5 7 23 3560 1 1 d 11 I mean ^part of our po_litical !l/\ife# / 5 7 23 3570 1 1 c 11 and there "^\is in 'fact {a ^class d\ifference#}# / 5 7 23 3580 1 2 c 11 though per^haps 'not the 'kind of :cl\ass / 5 7 23 3580 1 1 c 11 'difference# / 5 7 23 3590 1 1 c 11 that ^Brian 'had in !m\ind# / 5 7 23 3600 1 1 c 12 I mean there ^\is a . a ^shift of :c\ontext# / 5 7 23 3610 1 1 c 11 *a* ^shift of :r\egister# / 5 7 23 3620 1 1 a 11 *^s\ure#* / 5 7 23 3630 1 1 a 11 ^s\ure# - / 5 7 23 3640 1 1 c 12 but ^in in ^y\our ex'ample# / 5 7 23 3650 1 1 c 11 from ^t\eaching# / 5 7 23 3660 1 1 c 11 ((I mean)) you "^d\o 'have# . / 5 7 23 3670 1 1 c 11 it ^seems to m\e# / 5 7 23 3680 1 1 c 11 [dhi:] . the i^d\eal# . / 5 7 24 3690 1 1 c 11 oc^c\asion# . / 5 7 24 3700 1 1 c 11 ^for com'muni!c\ation# / 5 7 24 3710 1 1 c 11 it`s it`s ^/open# . / 5 7 24 3720 1 1 c 11 and . ^\also {^\usually#}# / 5 7 24 3730 1 1 c 11 ^in graduate 'teaching :\anyway# . / 5 7 24 3740 1 1 c 11 [@?] it "^hasn`t got . any :{pr\essure} of :t\ime# / 5 7 24 3750 1 2 c 12 ((I mean)) ^in [?] un^fortunately in in :situations/ 5 7 24 3750 1 1 c 12 where you "!!h\ave po'litical {com^munic\ation#}# ./ 5 7 24 3760 1 2 c 11 you`ve ^not only 'got . [?e @] {an !urgent / 5 7 24 3760 1 1 c 11 :qu\estion} being :\asked# . / 5 7 24 3770 1 1 c 11 per^haps 'asked per:su\/asively# / 5 7 24 3780 1 1 c 11 and an ^answer 'being !g\iven# / 5 7 24 3790 1 1 c 11 per^haps !\also# . / 5 7 24 3800 1 1 c 11 per^su\asively# / 5 7 24 3810 1 1 c 11 or ten^d\entiously# . / 5 7 24 3820 1 2 c 11 but you you`ve ^got a !very se'vere [?] :t\ime / 5 7 24 3820 1 1 c 11 'limit# . / 5 7 24 3830 1 1 c 11 I mean ^t\eaching# / 5 7 24 3840 1 1 c 11 in the i^deal 'situ\ation# . / 5 7 24 3850 1 1 c 11 you`ve ^got !t\ime# / 5 7 25 3860 1 1 c 11 "^\all the 'time to 'say# / 5 7 25 3870 1 1 c 11 ^what do 'you m\ean# / 5 7 25 3880 1 1 c 11 ^what do :I m=ean# / 5 7 25 3890 1 1 c 11 ^let`s 'go b\ack# / 5 7 25 3900 1 1 c 11 ^let`s 'go b\ack# - / 5 7 25 3910 1 1 b 11 [ek] there`s ^something !m\ore than 'this 'though# / 5 7 25 3920 1 2 b 11 I ^think that . it is :n\ecessary {to / 5 7 25 3920 1 1 b 11 es^t\ablish#}# / 5 7 25 3930 1 2 b 11 a a ^common 'area of !!f\eeling {be^tween / 5 7 25 3930 1 1 b 11 p\eople#}# / 5 7 25 3940 1 1 b 11 be^c/ause# . / 5 7 25 3950 1 1 b 11 ^if you be":g\in a com'munic/ation# . / 5 7 25 3960 1 1 b 12 ^with - . [@ @ @] a ^b\arrier# / 5 7 25 3970 1 1 b 11 be^tween the !f\eelings of p/eople# / 5 7 25 3980 1 1 b 11 ^if there 'is no 'common :sh\aring# . / 5 7 25 3990 1 1 b 11 no ^matter "!wh\at you 'say# . / 5 7 25 4000 1 1 b 11 how^ever in:t\elligent it 'may b/e# / 5 7 25 4010 1 1 b 11 is re^j\ected# / 5 7 25 4020 1 1 b 11 by the ^other p/erson# / 5 7 25 4030 1 1 b 11 how^ever "!cl\ear it 'may 'be# / 5 7 25 4040 1 1 b 11 it will be re^j\ected# / 5 7 25 4050 1 1 b 11 by the ^other p/erson# / 5 7 25 4060 1 1 b 11 ^even if they 'under'stand the :w\ords# / 5 7 25 4070 1 1 b 11 be^cause there is no c\/ommon# / 5 7 25 4080 1 1 b 11 ^{sh\aring} of :f\eeling# *-* / 5 7 25 4090 1 1 b 11 ^and . in the :same !w\/ay# / 5 7 26 4100 2 1 b 21 if ^there is / 5 7 26 4110 1 1 ? 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 7 26 4100 1 1(b 11 no {c\ommon} :sharing of ex!p\erience# - / 5 7 26 4120 1 1 b 11 ^what you s\/ay# / 5 7 26 4130 1 1 b 11 as ^Stuart has 'just sugg\ested# . / 5 7 26 4140 1 1 b 11 ^may mean !something to :y\ou# / 5 7 26 4150 1 2 b 11 but ^something quite . 'totally :d\ifferent to / 5 7 26 4150 1 1 b 11 {^somebody !\else#}# . / 5 7 26 4160 1 2 b 11 ^if you . [@:] dis'cuss . :cricket with an / 5 7 26 4160 1 1 b 11 A:m\erican for /example# - / 5 7 26 4170 1 1 b 11 [@m] he ^won`t know 'what you`re !t\alking a'bout# / 5 7 26 4180 1 1 b 11 be^cause there is no c\/ommon# / 5 7 26 4190 1 1 b 11 ^area of ex!p\erience# / 5 7 26 4200 1 2 b 12 you "^[m@u] you ^may be 'quite . [@:?@?] :pl\easant/ 5 7 26 4200 1 1 b 12 with 'one an/other# / 5 7 27 4210 1 1 b 11 you ^may have a [@:?] a :friendly re:l\ationship# ./ 5 7 27 4220 1 1 b 11 ^but your !conver:s\ation about [@:] {^cr\icket#}# / 5 7 27 4230 1 2 b 11 or a^bout _what _Manchester U!n\ited did 'last / 5 7 27 4230 1 1 b 11 w/eek# / 5 7 27 4240 1 1 b 11 ^will 'be . quite :m\eaningless# . / 5 7 27 4250 1 1 d 11 ^I think 'this is :v\ery im_portant# / 5 7 27 4260 1 1 d 11 and I "^th\ink it _operates# . / 5 7 27 4270 1 1 d 11 [? @] ^in sur!prising :c\ircumstances# / 5 7 27 4280 1 1 d 11 I mean I ^think it`s "!tr\ue you 'see# / 5 7 27 4290 1 2 d 11 ^even 'in . the _kind of :graduate 'seminar 'work I/ 5 7 27 4290 1 1 d 11 was 'talking about 'earlier :\on# - / 5 7 27 4300 1 1 d 11 where ^after all the :talk !\is a'bout# . / 5 7 27 4310 1 1 d 11 intel^lectual th=ings# . / 5 7 27 4320 1 1 d 11 ^people who`ve 'been to uni:v=ersity# / 5 7 27 4330 1 1 d 11 who`re ^interested in the _same r=ange# / 5 7 27 4340 1 1 d 11 of ^t\opics# / 5 7 28 4350 1 1 d 11 and ^s\o on# - / 5 7 28 4360 1 1 d 11 ^when in a 'seminar we 'strike a :d\eadlock# - / 5 7 28 4370 1 1 d 11 ^almost \always it`s a 'deadlock of f/eeling# - / 5 7 28 4380 1 1 d 11 ^and ex_perience and :v\alues# / 5 7 28 4390 1 2 d 11 ^rather than a 'deadlock of 'actual intel:lectual / 5 7 28 4390 1 1 d 11 'concepts or :m\eanings# . / 5 7 28 4400 1 2 d 11 and we ^have to 'find !some 'way of 'actually / 5 7 28 4400 1 1 d 11 :g\oing 'through# . / 5 7 28 4410 1 1 d 11 "^what \is it# / 5 7 28 4420 2 1 d 21 ((kind of)) *-* / 5 7 28 4430 1 1 ? 11 *^th\at`s 'true#* / 5 7 28 4420 1 1(d 11 ^locking 'off a :certain 'number of p/eople# / 5 7 28 4440 1 1 d 11 ^from kind of . !fully 'entering 'this disc\ussion#/ 5 7 28 4450 1 1 d 11 ((it`s)) a ^deadlock of 'feeling and exp\erience# / 5 7 28 4460 1 1 d 11 ^r\ather than 'of# / 5 7 28 4470 1 1 d 11 "^strictly sp\eaking# / 5 7 28 4480 1 1 d 11 the ^conno'tations of the :w\ords# - / 5 7 28 4490 1 1 d 11 *^but . I m=ean#* / 5 7 29 4500 1 1 ? 20 *((2 to 3 sylls))* / 5 7 29 4510 1 3(d 14 I ^want((ed)) to [au] ^come [m] ^put the 'question / 5 7 29 4510 1 2(d 14 'back to :y\ou you 'see 'Brian . ^if 'Barbara is / 5 7 29 4510 1 1(d 14 :r\ight# / 5 7 29 4520 1 1 d 11 in ^s/aying that# - / 5 7 29 4530 1 1 d 11 we ^don`t have !t\ime# / 5 7 29 4540 1 1 d 11 in a lot of ^\other com'muni'cation# / 5 7 29 4550 1 1 d 11 to es"^t\ablish this 'background of 'feeling# *-* / 5 7 29 4560 1 1 a 11 *^[/mhm]#* / 5 7 29 4570 1 1(d 11 ((and)) es^pecially in po'litical com'muni:c\ation#/ 5 7 29 4580 2 1 d 21 ^where *you* / 5 7 29 4590 1 1 c 11 *^y\eah#* / 5 7 29 4580 1 2(d 11 'know the !m\inister is there {for ^h\alf an / 5 7 29 4580 1 1(d 11 'hour#}# / 5 7 29 4600 1 1 d 11 and there`s a ^c\ar out'side w/aiting# / 5 7 29 4610 1 2 d 11 to ^take him 'back to :D\owning 'Street and s/o / 5 7 29 4610 1 1 d 11 on# - / 5 7 30 4620 1 1 d 11 ^whose 'job \/is it# . / 5 7 30 4630 1 2 d 11 ^other 'than - 'let us 'say the !pr\ess {in / 5 7 30 4630 1 1 d 11 par^t\icular#}# / 5 7 30 4640 1 1 d 11 ((and)) the ^m\/edia# / 5 7 30 4650 1 1 d 11 for es"^t\ablishing {the ^c\ontext#}# / 5 7 30 4660 1 2 d 11 with^in which the :meanings of 'these 'words / 5 7 30 4660 1 1 d 11 :ch\ange# - / 5 7 30 4670 1 3 d 14 ^is it ^is [i] ^is it [n] I mean . ^is it the / 5 7 30 4670 1 2 d 14 poli'ticians who "primarily re'sponsible for / 5 7 30 4670 1 1 d 14 _d/oing 'this# . / 5 7 30 4680 1 2 d 11 or ^do the 'press have a par"!t\icular / 5 7 30 4680 1 1 d 11 re'sponsi'bility# / 5 7 30 4690 1 1 d 11 for as it were ^keeping a:l\ive# / 5 7 30 4700 1 1 d 11 ^all the t\ime# - / 5 7 30 4710 1 1 d 11 the ^s\ense# / 5 7 30 4720 1 1 d 11 of ^changes of m/eanings# / 5 7 30 4730 1 1 d 11 ^changes of c\ontext# / 5 7 30 4740 1 1 d 11 ^changes of exp\erience# . / 5 7 30 4750 1 1 d 11 be^hind the 'sort of par!ticular t\erms# / 5 7 30 4760 1 1 d 11 that are ^coming up 'all the t\ime# - / 5 7 30 4770 1 1 d 11 ^let me 'give you just :one _quick ex/ample# . / 5 7 30 4780 1 1 d 11 the ^word v\iolence#;*- .* .; / 5 7 31 4790 1 1 ? 11 *^y/eah#* / 5 7 31 4800 1 1(d 11 [?@] ^constantly 'now being ref/erred to# / 5 7 31 4810 1 1 d 11 in the ^form of !law and :\order and 'so on# . / 5 7 31 4820 1 3 d 12 ^I have a 'feeling 'people are 'talking about / 5 7 31 4820 1 2 d 12 !![kwa] com^pl/\etely 'different 'things :{^when / 5 7 31 4820 1 1 d 12 they 'say the _word _v\iolence#}# - . / 5 7 31 4830 1 1 d 12 ^and the the ^conversation is com!pl\etely sort of#/ 5 7 31 4840 1 1 d 11 [@:] ^at !l\/oggerheads# / 5 7 31 4850 1 1 d 11 because ^nobody :ever s/ays# - / 5 7 31 4860 1 1 d 12 [? i] ^wh\at ^what !k\inds of 'violence# / 5 7 31 4870 1 2 d 11 in ^what 'circumstances are we t\alking about / 5 7 31 4870 1 1 d 11 'this# / 5 7 31 4880 1 1 d 11 ^m/urder# . / 5 7 31 4890 1 1 d 11 ^m/ass 'murder# / 5 7 31 4900 1 1 d 11 ^w/ar# . / 5 7 31 4910 1 1 d 11 "^civil dis*ob/edience#* / 5 7 32 4920 1 1 d 11 et^cetera et'cetera etc\etera# / 5 7 32 4930 1 1 ? 11 *^[mh\m]#* / 5 7 32 4940 1 1(d 11 now "^whose 'job \is it as it 'were# / 5 7 32 4950 1 2 d 12 to ^keep the - [dhi @] the the ^{l\ines of / 5 7 32 4950 1 1 d 12 communi'cations} !cl\ear# / 5 7 32 4960 1 1 d 11 ^at the !l\evel of# / 5 7 32 4970 1 1 d 11 as it were ^f\eeling# . / 5 7 32 4980 1 1 d 11 ex^p\erience# / 5 7 32 4990 1 1 d 11 ^rather than !c\ontent# . / 5 7 32 5000 1 1 a 11 well it`s the ^honest !m\an`s I 'think# / 5 7 32 5010 1 1 a 11 as it`s ^\always been# / 5 7 32 5020 1 1 a 11 re^gardless of _what he`s !d\oing# / 5 7 32 5030 1 1 a 11 [?@] ^\every'body# . / 5 7 32 5040 1 1 a 11 it ^seems to _me at the !m\oment says 'he# / 5 7 32 5050 1 1 a 11 ^generalizing like !m\ad# - / 5 7 32 5060 1 2 a 11 [@] ^everybody in any par:t\icular 'field at the / 5 7 32 5060 1 1 a 11 'moment# / 5 7 32 5070 1 1 a 11 ^seems to be un!h\appy# / 5 7 32 5080 1 2 a 11 the edu^c\ationalists are un'happy {about :th\eir / 5 7 32 5080 1 1 a 11 field#}# / 5 7 32 5090 1 1 a 11 the ^journalists are . unh/appy# / 5 7 32 5100 1 1 a 11 the in^d\/ustrialists are 'saying# / 5 7 33 5110 1 1 a 11 there`s a ^million !p\/eople at the 'moment# / 5 7 33 5120 1 2 a 11 ^all 'wanting another !ten 'pound a 'week and we / 5 7 33 5120 1 1 a 11 :can`t aff/ord it# / 5 7 33 5130 1 1 a 11 and ^s\o on# - / 5 7 33 5140 1 1 a 11 in ^m\y 'field I 'think# . / 5 7 33 5150 1 1 a 11 [@ @] the ^j\ournalists# / 5 7 33 5160 1 1 a 11 or ^s/\ome of them# / 5 7 33 5170 1 1 a 11 the ^ones who are _s/erious# / 5 7 33 5180 1 1 a 11 are ^w\orried that# . / 5 7 33 5190 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - - we`ve ^{never !!h\ad} such 'kind of / 5 7 33 5190 1 1 a 11 :\output# / 5 7 33 5200 1 2 a 11 I ^know that the 'total 'sales of :n\ewspapers are / 5 7 33 5200 1 1 a 11 f/alling# / 5 7 33 5210 1 1 a 11 but there`s ^so many \other _things# / 5 7 33 5220 1 1 a 11 there`s ^lots of 'radio _\output# / 5 7 33 5230 1 2 a 11 there`s [@m??] ^when the . 'BBC 'gets itself / 5 7 33 5230 1 1 a 11 re:\organized {after ^\April#}# / 5 7 33 5240 1 2 a 11 ^we ap'pear to be 'going to have :news bulletins / 5 7 33 5240 1 1 a 11 :more or less con!t\inuously# / 5 7 34 5250 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 5 7 34 5260 1 1 a 11 like ^hot w\ater# / 5 7 34 5270 1 2 a 12 I mean . you`re ^going to [b] 'just there`s ^going / 5 7 34 5270 1 1 a 12 to be a :new !s\ource# / 5 7 34 5280 1 1 a 11 [? d] ^going on all the !t\ime# / 5 7 34 5290 1 1 a 11 and ^y\/et# - / 5 7 34 5300 1 1 a 11 ^\I 'get the im'pression# / 5 7 34 5310 1 2 a 11 and I`m not "^al\one among 'this {a^mong / 5 7 34 5310 1 1 a 11 !j\ournalists#}# / 5 7 34 5320 1 2 a 11 that ^there has !never been "!l\ess under'standing / 5 7 34 5320 1 1 a 11 of the 'issues# . / 5 7 34 5330 1 1 a 11 that the "^cl\ap'trap 'boys# / 5 7 34 5340 1 1 a 11 are ^r\eally# / 5 7 34 5350 1 1 a 11 at their ^very !b\est# / 5 7 34 5360 1 1 a 11 the [@ d] the ^\economic 'clap'trap 'boys# / 5 7 34 5370 1 1 a 11 had a ^great 'run for a :l\ong 'time# - / 5 7 34 5380 1 1 a 11 I ^think the :socio!l\ogical 'clap'trap 'boys# / 5 7 34 5390 1 1 a 11 are ^moving 'in on it !n\ow# . / 5 7 34 5400 1 2 a 12 [@:m] . ^but you 'know there`ll :be . there`ll ^be / 5 7 34 5400 1 1 a 12 a !new 'breed each :y\ear# / 5 7 35 5410 1 1 a 11 as there ^always !\is# . / 5 7 35 5420 1 1 a 11 ^and . you _have a !desperate f\eeling# / 5 7 35 5430 1 2 a 11 you know that ^Moses 'said it 'all on the / 5 7 35 5430 1 1 a 11 m\ountain# / 5 7 35 5440 1 1 a 11 and ^somebody 'took it d\own# / 5 7 35 5450 1 2 a 11 and [wi@] it`s ^just been re:peated and re:peated / 5 7 35 5450 1 1 a 11 and re:p\eated# / 5 7 35 5460 1 1 a 11 and one is ^w\aiting for 'somebody to _say# / 5 7 35 5470 1 1 a 11 ^wait a m/inute# - / 5 7 35 5480 1 1 a 11 ^why do we 'keep !s\aying 'this# / 5 7 35 5490 1 1 a 11 ^why aren`t we 'questioning what we :m\ean# / 5 7 35 5500 1 1 a 11 and ^this is your !v\iolence 'one# / 5 7 35 5510 1 2 a 12 you ^kn/ow that . [? @:m] - that - [dhi:] - / 5 7 35 5510 1 1 a 12 ^\appetite - {of the ^m\edia#}# - / 5 7 35 5520 1 1 a 11 for . ^something to :flow down its !ch\annels# / 5 7 35 5530 1 1 a 11 is ^so _gr\eat# . / 5 7 35 5540 1 1 a 11 that there ^isn`t !t\ime to# . / 5 7 36 5550 1 1 a 11 ^ch\eck# . / 5 7 36 5560 1 1 a 11 ^alw\ays# / 5 7 36 5570 1 2 a 11 the ^kind of 'things that are _going 'down the / 5 7 36 5570 1 1 a 11 !ch\annels# / 5 7 36 5580 1 2 a 11 now ^this . 'obviously is 'totally un:true with a / 5 7 36 5580 1 1 a 11 :great many 'very good !!j\ournalists# / 5 7 36 5590 1 2 a 11 there are ^lots of 'journalists who`ve :done their / 5 7 36 5590 1 1 a 11 'very !\utmost for 'instance# / 5 7 36 5600 1 1 a 11 to ex^plain what on :\earth the# - / 5 7 36 5610 1 2 a 11 ^prices and 'incomes :{p\olicy} was sup:p\osed to / 5 7 36 5610 1 1 a 11 'mean# / 5 7 36 5620 1 1 a 11 at ^any 'given !m\oment# / 5 7 36 5630 1 2 a 11 and ^whether - the :kind of 'words 'we were :using / 5 7 36 5630 1 1 a 11 were !h\elpful# - / 5 7 36 5640 1 1 a 12 ^but [@:m] - - ^in as 'much as we`ve cre!\ated# / 5 7 36 5650 1 2 a 11 this e^normous . [@:m] :m/\ethod of / 5 7 36 5650 1 1 a 11 com'muni'cation# / 5 7 36 5660 1 1 a 11 it ^seems to 'me that we`ve :got . to sp\end# . / 5 7 37 5670 1 1 a 11 ^so much 'time !f\illing it# / 5 7 37 5680 1 2 a 11 we ^don`t have e'nough :{t\ime to 'think about} / 5 7 37 5680 1 1 a 11 :what goes !d\own it# / 5 7 37 5690 1 1 a 11 ^now I 'think it pr/\obably the . s/ame# . / 5 7 37 5700 1 1 a 12 ^in . ^in . the !!t\eaching 'world# - / 5 7 37 5710 1 1 a 11 and . ^I [f] 'get the f\eeling# / 5 7 37 5720 1 1 a 11 ^looking at the 'world of edu:c\ation# / 5 7 37 5730 1 1 a 11 about ^which I 'know very !l\ittle# / 5 7 37 5740 1 2 a 11 that there are ^two sorts of 'ways in which it`s / 5 7 37 5740 1 1 a 11 :w\orking# / 5 7 37 5750 1 1 a 11 ^one is '[dhi] sort of !\en'clave 'way# . / 5 7 37 5760 1 3 a 11 ^where !great you can 'get yourself into a / 5 7 37 5760 1 2 a 11 :post'graduate 'school of a :lot of 'like / 5 7 37 5760 1 1 a 11 !m\inds# . / 5 7 37 5770 1 1 a 11 and you can ^all s\it to'gether# / 5 7 37 5780 1 1 a 11 in a ^tight little [t] :tennis club !w\orld# . / 5 7 37 5790 1 1 a 11 and you can ^go on a 'journey 'by yours/elves# . / 5 7 38 5800 1 2 a 11 [@:m??] but . ^really 'when you come "!out of the / 5 7 38 5800 1 1 a 11 :encl/ave# / 5 7 38 5810 1 1 a 11 you`re ^not much 'use to the :r\est of 'us# . / 5 7 38 5820 1 2 a 12 and the ^other - ^which ((you know)) !!some 'ways I/ 5 7 38 5820 1 1 a 12 sus:pect is 'even :w\orse# / 5 7 38 5830 1 2 a 11 though I ^find it more 'difficult to / 5 7 38 5830 1 1 a 11 !c\/ategorize# - . / 5 7 38 5840 1 2 a 11 is - - [?] that - . par^ticularly in 'colleges of / 5 7 38 5840 1 1 a 11 'further edu'cation like _Fr\ed`s# - / 5 7 38 5850 1 1 a 11 there`s a ^whole 'new l\evel# / 5 7 38 5860 1 1 a 11 of kind of "^lightweight :cl\ap'trap# - / 5 7 38 5870 1 1 a 11 there`s a ^whole 'new w\orld# / 5 7 38 5880 1 1 a 11 of kind of ^tatty educ\ation# . / 5 7 38 5890 1 2 a 11 there`s a ^whole 'new 'world of . :kids 'coming / 5 7 38 5890 1 1 a 11 al\ong# / 5 7 38 5900 1 1 a 11 and . ^sitting at . "!b\ad 'lectures# / 5 7 38 5910 1 1 a 11 and rather "^b\ored 'lectures# / 5 7 39 5920 1 1 a 11 and . ^picking 'up a 'lot of . 'little phr/ases# / 5 7 39 5930 1 1 a 11 ^which they can rep\eat# / 5 7 39 5940 1 2 a 11 and ^under'standing :even "!l\ess than they 'would / 5 7 39 5940 1 1 a 11 have 'underst/ood# / 5 7 39 5950 1 1 a 11 if they ^hadn`t _bothered to !g\o# - / 5 7 39 5960 1 1 b 11 there ^may be :s\omething in th/is# / 5 7 39 5970 1 2 b 11 [dh@] I ^think that - [@] :in the !br\oadening of / 5 7 39 5970 1 1 b 11 'educ/ation# / 5 7 39 5980 1 1 b 11 and the ^p\opularizing of 'edu_cation# / 5 7 39 5990 1 1 b 11 there ^is this :d\/anger# / 5 7 39 6000 1 1 b 11 that ^more - [@] 'can 'mean w/orse# . / 5 7 39 6010 1 1 b 11 but it`s ^not in:\/evitable# - / 5 7 39 6020 1 1 b 11 [@ e] ^any more in :sch\ools# / 5 7 39 6030 1 1 b 11 and ^colleges of !further !educ/ation# / 5 7 39 6040 1 1 b 11 than at uni^v\ersity# . / 5 7 39 6050 1 1 b 11 the ^r\/eal thing 'is# / 5 7 39 6060 1 1 b 11 that we ^have to a"!d\apt# . / 5 7 39 6070 1 1 b 11 in ^order to "!c\ope with 'this# / 5 7 40 6080 1 1 b 11 and I ^think this :means . !re!th\inking# / 5 7 40 6090 1 1 b 11 a ^lot of the !pr\ocesses# / 5 7 40 6100 1 1 b 11 which have gone ^\on in _edu_cation# . / 5 7 40 6110 1 1 b 11 it ^means - - 'doing !tw\o th=ings# / 5 7 40 6120 1 1 b 11 in^stead of !\one# / 5 7 40 6130 1 1 b 11 in the ^p\ast# . / 5 7 40 6140 1 2 b 11 [@:] ^{t\eachers} :concentrated 'on a :single / 5 7 40 6140 1 1 b 11 :d\/iscipline# . / 5 7 40 6150 1 1 b 11 ^and !d\eepening# / 5 7 40 6160 1 1 b 11 the ^under!standing of the :d\iscipline# / 5 7 40 6170 1 2 b 11 which was ^all 'right for 'these 'people that could/ 5 7 40 6170 1 1 b 11 !f\ollow that {^\out#}# *-* / 5 7 40 6180 1 1 ? 11 *[m^h=m]#* / 5 7 40 6190 1 1(b 11 but for ^those who :c\ouldn`t# . / 5 7 40 6200 1 1 b 11 they just ^dropped !\out# / 5 7 40 6210 1 1 b 11 they pro"^gressively 'dropped :\out of 'educ/ation#/ 5 7 40 6220 1 1 b 11 ^as it _went !\on# - / 5 7 41 6230 1 2 b 11 ^what is {n\ecessary} at the :pr\/esent 'time I / 5 7 41 6230 1 1 b 11 'think 'is# - / 5 7 41 6240 1 1 b 11 con^tinuing 'that :pr\ocess# / 5 7 41 6250 1 1 b 11 but at the ^same !t\/ime# - / 5 7 41 6260 1 1 b 11 [@m] in^{v\olving} !\all the st/udents# / 5 7 41 6270 1 1 b 11 in ^certain 'common "!pr\actical ac_tivities# . / 5 7 41 6280 1 2 b 11 which en^able them to [?] :act - [@] as each / 5 7 41 6280 1 1 b 11 "!\other`s 'teachers# . / 5 7 41 6290 1 1 b 11 ^so that . [@:] 'there can be com:m\unication# / 5 7 41 6300 1 1 b 11 be^{{tw\een} the m\embers} of the p\eer 'group# . / 5 7 41 6310 1 1 b 11 as ^well as betw\/een# / 5 7 41 6320 1 1 b 11 ^teachers and !t\aught# / 5 7 41 6330 1 1 b 11 in ^\other 'words# . / 5 7 41 6340 1 1 b 11 ^young p\eople# - / 5 7 41 6350 1 1 b 11 at ^all l/evels# / 5 7 41 6360 1 1 b 11 in^cluding uni'versity '[lev @:] l/evel# - / 5 7 41 6370 1 2 b 11 are ^going to 'be their ":own !t\eachers in the / 5 7 41 6370 1 1 b 11 'future# / 5 7 41 6380 1 1 b 11 in a ^very 'real :w\ay# . / 5 7 41 6390 1 1 b 11 and "^m\ust b/e# . / 5 7 42 6400 1 1 b 11 if ^these "barriers to com:munic/ation# / 5 7 42 6410 1 1 b 11 are ^going to be 'broken !d\own# - / 5 7 42 6420 1 1 c 11 well yes "^c/\ertainly at uni'versity 'level# / 5 7 42 6430 1 2 c 11 I ^think 'one of the 'things that it`s :most / 5 7 42 6430 1 1 c 11 !d\ifficult# / 5 7 42 6440 1 1 c 11 for ^incoming {st\udents} - to :l\earn# - / 5 7 42 6450 1 1 c 11 ^\is# - / 5 7 42 6460 1 1 c 11 ^how to !l\earn# - . / 5 7 42 6470 1 1 c 11 ^as dis!t\inct 'from# . / 5 7 42 6480 1 1 c 11 ^taking \in# / 5 7 42 6490 1 2 c 11 ^something that is . :very 'formally and / 5 7 42 6490 1 1 c 11 _dog!m\atically# . / 5 7 42 6500 1 1 c 11 ^t\aught# / 5 7 42 6510 1 1 c 11 ^v\ery 'often of 'course# . / 5 7 42 6520 1 1 c 11 ^taught 'for the p\urpose# - / 5 7 42 6530 1 1 c 11 ^of 'passing a par'ticular ex'amin/\ation# - / 5 7 42 6540 1 1 c 11 and I ^think you`re 'absolutely !r\ight# / 5 7 42 6550 1 1 c 11 but I`d ^like to get :b\ack to# - / 5 7 42 6560 1 1 c 11 ^what you s\aid# - / 5 7 42 6570 1 1 c 11 at the ^very be!!g\inning# / 5 7 42 6580 1 1 c 11 because ^this is - :s\omething# / 5 7 43 6590 1 1 c 11 that ^\interests me# / 5 7 43 6600 1 1 c 11 and ^raises a 'very 'real !d\ifficulty# / 5 7 43 6610 1 1 c 11 ^you _s\aid# . / 5 7 43 6620 1 1 c 11 we are ^all u:nique !b\eings# - / 5 7 43 6630 1 1 c 11 ^=and# - - / 5 7 43 6640 1 1 c 11 ^if you 'are . [@] :t\eaching# / 5 7 43 6650 1 1 c 11 ^and !l\earning# / 5 7 43 6660 1 1 c 11 ^in a :group of :p\eople# - / 5 7 43 6670 1 1 c 11 [? ?] in in ^m\ost 'circum'stances# / 5 7 43 6680 1 1 c 11 ^in a 'school or univ=ersity# . / 5 7 43 6690 1 2 c 12 ^you . there`s a ^certain a'mount of / 5 7 43 6690 1 1 c 12 fa:mili!\arity# / 5 7 43 6700 1 2 c 11 you`re "^not 'after '[dhi:] - in!\itial - [@:] / 5 7 43 6700 1 1 c 11 {^st\ages#}# / 5 7 43 6710 1 1 c 11 ^talking to !!str\angers# - / 5 7 43 6720 1 1 c 11 ^but - in a !subject like m/ine# / 5 7 43 6730 1 1 c 11 which is ^l\/iterature# - / 5 7 43 6740 1 1 c 11 it`s per^haps - !{r\elatively} \easy# . / 5 7 43 6750 1 2 c 11 to - a^chieve !some kind of :{\intimacy} and / 5 7 43 6750 1 1 c 11 particu!l\arity# / 5 7 43 6760 1 1 c 11 so that . you`re ^talking a!bout u!n\iqueness# / 5 7 43 6770 1 1 c 11 because your ^s\ubject# - / 5 7 44 6780 1 2 c 11 is the u^nique ex'pression of i_deas and / 5 7 44 6780 1 1 c 11 !f\eelings# - / 5 7 44 6790 1 1 c 11 in ^\art# - / 5 7 44 6800 1 1 c 11 but in ^m\any 'subjects# / 5 7 44 6810 1 1 c 11 it ^seems to m\e# - / 5 7 44 6820 1 1 c 11 it`s ^not so :easy to :do what you c\all# . / 5 7 44 6830 1 1 c 11 in^v\olving {^p\eople#}# . / 5 7 44 6840 1 1 c 11 in a ^{pr\actical} act\ivity# / 5 7 44 6850 1 1 c 11 ^so that they 'can com:m\unicate# - / 5 7 44 6860 1 1 c 12 ^and and ^teach each :\other# / 5 7 44 6870 1 1 c 11 I mean ^would you a:gr\ee# / 5 7 44 6880 1 1 c 11 that - that ^this . is . is :very much :\easier# - / 5 7 44 6890 1 1 c 11 ^in 'some !!s\ubjects# / 5 7 44 6900 1 1 c 11 than in ^\others# . / 5 7 44 6910 1 2 b 12 ^I !think that . [@m] - I ^don`t know about / 5 7 44 6910 1 1 b 12 uni!v\ersities# / 5 7 44 6920 1 1 b 11 but . at "^all 'levels be":l\ow univ/ersity# - / 5 7 44 6930 1 2 b 11 [@] - be^sides pur:{s\uing} the . the _purely / 5 7 44 6930 1 1 b 11 !s\ubject - {ap^pr\oach#}# / 5 7 45 6940 1 1 b 11 it ^\is n/ecessary# / 5 7 45 6950 1 1 b 12 for ^[je] ^for - . p/upils {to ^be inv/olved#}# / 5 7 45 6960 1 2 b 11 in ^things which - _break a_cross !s\everal / 5 7 45 6960 1 1 b 11 'subjects# . / 5 7 45 6970 1 1 b 11 I ^th=ink# - / 5 7 45 6980 1 1 b 11 ^what you 'say is 'quite !tr\ue# / 5 7 45 6990 1 1 b 11 if you ^stick to a :s\ingle 'subject ap'proach# . / 5 7 45 7000 1 1 b 11 there are ^s\ome 'subjects# / 5 7 45 7010 1 2 b 11 ^where you can in:volve your:self in :practical / 5 7 45 7010 1 1 b 11 act/ivity# / 5 7 45 7020 1 1 b 11 and - there are ^some 'subjects which !c\an`t# . / 5 7 45 7030 1 1 b 11 but - in a ^sch\ool# / 5 7 45 7040 1 1 b 11 or a ^college of (('further)) edu:c\/ation# - / 5 7 45 7050 1 1 b 11 I ^would have !th\ought in# - / 5 7 45 7060 1 1 b 11 "^p\ossibly in univ/ersities# / 5 7 45 7070 1 2 b 11 ^it is !possible {to in:v\olve one'self} in / 5 7 45 7070 1 1 b 11 :st\udies# - / 5 7 45 7080 1 1 b 11 ^which !d\o 'call up'on# / 5 7 46 7090 1 1 b 11 ^s\everal 'discipl/ines# - / 5 7 46 7100 1 2 b 12 (([@m])) the ^[kaet@!li?] - the ^c\/atalyst of / 5 7 46 7100 1 1 b 12 'which# / 5 7 46 7110 1 1 b 11 will ^be a :practical ac!t\ivity# - - - / 5 7 46 7120 1 1 d 11 I mean I ^s\ee 'that# / 5 7 46 7130 1 2 d 12 and I ^think that [@: dh@:] I mean I think it`s / 5 7 46 7130 1 1 d 12 ^v\ery im_portant# / 5 7 46 7140 1 2 d 11 and and ^in a 'way we "!see the edu'cational / 5 7 46 7140 1 1 d 11 'process :d\ifferently# / 5 7 46 7150 1 1 d 11 ^once we 'under_stand that 'that`s :s\o# - / 5 7 46 7160 1 1 d 11 I ^think [ju:??] uni:versity :k\ind of _teaching# ./ 5 7 46 7170 1 1 d 11 ^does 'put the :most str\ess on 'this# - / 5 7 46 7180 1 2 d 12 [@:] I mean it ^puts ^puts that *'con*cept :most / 5 7 46 7180 1 1 d 12 "\under 'stress# / 5 7 46 7190 2 1 d 21 ^that`s / 5 7 46 7200 1 1 c 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 7 46 7190 1 1(d 11 'really 'what I m\ean# . / 5 7 46 7210 1 2 d 12 [@:] ^and and it ^differs from 'subject to / 5 7 46 7210 1 1 d 12 s\ubject# / 5 7 47 7220 1 1 d 11 I`m ^sure that`s !tr\ue# - / 5 7 47 7230 1 1 d 11 [@:] but there ^is an!\other _problem# / 5 7 47 7240 1 2 d 11 ^even 'when - it`s :{n\ot} [@:] :difficult to / 5 7 47 7240 1 1 d 11 :d\o# . / 5 7 47 7250 1 1 d 11 in the ^\/abstract# - . / 5 7 47 7260 1 1 d 11 there "^\is a 'question about :wh/ether# - / 5 7 47 7270 1 1 d 11 [?] ^uni'versity t\eachers# / 5 7 47 7280 1 2 d 11 who ^after all :have - !no ex:perience 'of - the / 5 7 47 7280 1 1 d 11 t\eaching# . / 5 7 47 7290 1 2 d 11 ^edu'cational "!c\ontent of :{^what they`re / 5 7 47 7290 1 1 d 11 d\oing#}# / 5 7 47 7300 1 2 d 12 ((who are ^not)) are ^not neces'sarily / 5 7 47 7300 1 1 d 12 !{\interested} or in:v\/olved in 'that# - / 5 7 47 7310 1 2 d 11 ^whether they`re 'likely to :think that it`s / 5 7 47 7310 1 1 d 11 'something worth !d\oing# / 5 7 47 7320 1 1 d 11 ^or in'deed be 'able to !d\o it# - - / 5 7 48 7330 1 2 d 12 I mean ^what it ^struck me that :what !y\ou were / 5 7 48 7330 1 1 d 12 s/aying# / 5 7 48 7340 1 1 d 11 was that ^as it w/ere# - / 5 7 48 7350 1 1 d 11 the ^subject 'content {d\isci'pline} - \area# - / 5 7 48 7360 1 1 d 11 becomes ^l\ess sig'nificant# / 5 7 48 7370 1 1 d 11 as ^one !broadens [@] 'educ\ation# / 5 7 48 7380 1 1 d 11 and in^creases the /entry# - / 5 7 48 7390 1 1 d 11 and the ^edu'cational t\eaching# / 5 7 48 7400 1 1 d 11 in^v\olving# / 5 7 48 7410 1 1 d 11 par^ticipating :f\unction# / 5 7 48 7420 1 1 d 11 becomes "^m\ore sig'nificant# - / 5 7 48 7430 1 1 d 11 now I sus^p\ect that uni'versity 'teachers 'are /A#/ 5 7 48 7440 1 1 d 11 [@] the group "^most l\ikely# / 5 7 48 7450 1 1 d 11 to re^s\ist 'that as an id/ea# . / 5 7 48 7460 1 1 d 11 and ^\B# / 5 7 48 7470 1 2 d 13 ^be the 'group !most ( - laughs) ^least l/ikely to / 5 7 48 7470 1 1 d 13 be ^able to 'put it 'into !pr\actice# / 5 7 48 7480 1 1 d 11 ^even if 'they sub!scr\ibe to it# - - / 5 7 49 7490 1 1 b 11 [@:] (coughs) ^y\es# / 5 7 49 7500 1 1 b 11 I ^think 'that`s :r\ight# / 5 7 49 7510 1 1 b 12 I ^think that [@m - - ?@:] ^two th\ings# / 5 7 49 7520 1 1 b 11 ^one 'is that I`m "!not s\aying# / 5 7 49 7530 1 1 b 11 that ^n\o# . / 5 7 49 7540 1 2 b 11 ^{{d\iscipline} t\eaching} should be / 5 7 49 7540 1 1 b 11 under:t\ak*en#* / 5 7 49 7550 1 1 ? 11 *^s=ure#* / 5 7 49 7560 1 1 b 11 I ^think - [? ? ?] it is es:s\ential# / 5 7 49 7570 1 1 b 11 that ^one pre!s\/erves 'disci'pline# . / 5 7 49 7580 1 1 b 11 ^what I am :saying a"!long"!s\ide 'that# - / 5 7 49 7590 1 1 b 11 there ^needs to b\e# / 5 7 49 7600 1 1 b 11 ^some 'kind of 'in!v\olvement# / 5 7 49 7610 1 1 b 11 in "^br\oader 'areas of _study# - / 5 7 49 7620 1 1 b 11 that ^cut a!cr\oss d/isciplines# . / 5 7 49 7630 1 1 b 11 and which ^d\o 'bring _people# . / 5 7 49 7640 1 1 b 11 ^fr\om 'different 'disciplines# / 5 7 49 7650 1 1 b 11 into ^c\/ontact with 'each 'other# / 5 7 50 7660 1 1 b 11 that en^\/able them# - / 5 7 50 7670 1 2 b 11 be^cause they 'are ap!plying their 'disciplines / 5 7 50 7670 1 1 b 11 al:r\eady# / 5 7 50 7680 1 2 b 11 to the e^{luci!d\ation} of a par:ticular / 5 7 50 7680 1 1 b 11 ((pr\oblem))# . / 5 7 50 7690 1 1 b 11 a ^pr\/actical 'problem# . / 5 7 50 7700 1 1 b 11 ^rather than a 'purely theo!r\etical /one# . / 5 7 50 7710 1 1 b 12 that [@] ^they are !\able to [in m] to be^c\ome# - / 5 7 50 7720 1 1 b 12 [@] ^better [kamju] com^m\unicators# / 5 7 50 7730 1 1 b 12 ^on _that - [? @:] ^on those !\issues# / 5 7 50 7740 1 1 d 11 you ^s=ee# / 5 7 50 7750 1 1 d 11 [@] it`s ^easy for m/\e# / 5 7 50 7760 1 1 d 11 be^cause in a !w\ay# / 5 7 50 7770 1 1 d 12 ^I`m in a - [m] ^I`m in al!r\eady# / 5 7 50 7780 1 1 d 11 a ^mongrel !s\ubject as it 'were# / 5 7 50 7790 1 1 d 11 it ^doesn`t pos:s\ess# / 5 7 50 7800 1 1 d 11 a ^single 'discipline of its !\own# . / 5 7 50 7810 1 1 d 11 but I ^wonder 'whether - [? ?] B\arbara# / 5 7 50 7820 1 1 d 11 who ^=is# . / 5 7 50 7830 1 1 d 11 with^in [l] the :discipline of !l\iterature# / 5 7 51 7840 1 1 d 11 as "^t\aught in the univ/ersity# / 5 7 51 7850 1 1 d 11 ^feels that th=is is# - / 5 7 51 7860 1 1 d 11 be^coming 'easier to d/o# / 5 7 51 7870 1 1 d 11 or "^l\ess 'easy to 'do# / 5 7 51 7880 1 1 d 20 *((syll))* / 5 7 51 7890 1 1 c 11 *I* ^th=ink# / 5 7 51 7900 1 1 c 11 I ^th=ink# - / 5 7 51 7910 1 1 c 11 it`s be^com((ing)) !\easier to d/o# - / 5 7 51 7920 1 1 c 11 in ^one s/ense# . / 5 7 51 7930 1 1 c 11 and ^that \is# / 5 7 51 7940 1 1 c 11 ^that - [?] the !st\udents# . / 5 7 51 7950 1 1 c 11 ^are [?] dem\anding# . / 5 7 51 7960 1 1 c 11 ^what . 'is very :often of 'course !shr\/unk 'from#/ 5 7 51 7970 1 1 c 11 [@] the ^{d\anger 'word} "r\elevance# - / 5 7 51 7980 1 1 c 11 and ^this . "!c\/an 'mean# / 5 7 51 7990 1 1 c 11 it ^doesn`t :\/always 'mean# / 5 7 51 8000 1 1 c 11 it ^c\an 'mean# - / 5 7 51 8010 1 1 c 11 that the ^students _are - !restr\ucturing# . / 5 7 51 8020 1 1 c 11 ^their l/earning# / 5 7 51 8030 1 1 c 11 ^one`s t/eaching# / 5 7 51 8040 1 1 c 11 ^by 'asking _qu\estions# / 5 7 51 8050 1 1 c 11 ^which in!\evitably# . / 5 7 51 8060 1 1 c 11 ^go !\out# / 5 7 52 8070 1 1 c 11 in^stead of "!\into# - / 5 7 52 8080 1 1 c 11 what^ever one :m\eans by [dhi:]# . / 5 7 52 8090 1 1 c 11 the ^{c\entre of} the d\iscipline# . / 5 7 52 8100 1 1 c 11 but [?] ((I mean)) I ^think . that !l\iterature# . / 5 7 52 8110 1 1 c 11 ^is a 'very 'special !c\ase# / 5 7 52 8120 1 1 c 12 and per^haps . ^\I don`t 'know# / 5 7 52 8130 1 1 c 11 one would ^also 'have to \add# - / 5 7 52 8140 1 1 c 11 ^history and psych\ology I sup'pose# / 5 7 52 8150 1 1 c 11 per^haps they`re \/all 'special 'cases# / 5 7 52 8160 1 1 c 11 but - [?] - the ^m/\ore 'one# - / 5 7 52 8170 1 1 c 11 [?] ^c\oncen'trates# . / 5 7 52 8180 1 1 c 11 and ^sp\ecializes# / 5 7 52 8190 1 1 c 11 ^in my :s\ubject# - / 5 7 52 8200 1 1 c 11 it ^seems to m\e# / 5 7 52 8210 1 1 c 11 the ^more !n\ecessary it 'is# / 5 7 52 8220 1 1 c 11 to ^s\ee# - / 5 7 52 8230 1 1 c 11 its va^riety _multi_plicity and br/\oadness# / 5 7 52 8240 1 1 c 11 ^that`s to s\ay# . / 5 7 52 8250 1 1 c 11 the ^more . 'you 'go :\into# . / 5 7 52 8260 1 1 c 11 the ^study 'of D\ickens# / 5 7 52 8270 1 1 c 11 ^or !W\/ords'worth# / 5 7 52 8280 1 1 c 11 or ^T S !\Eliot# / 5 7 52 8290 1 1 c 11 or who^ever it =is# . / 5 7 52 8300 1 1 c 11 the more ^n\ecessary it 'is# - / 5 7 52 8310 1 1 c 11 to look "^\out'side# / 5 7 52 8320 1 1 c 11 the ^work of /art# / 5 7 52 8330 1 1 c 11 ^at soc\iety# . / 5 7 52 8340 1 1 c 11 ^at _h\istory# . / 5 7 53 8350 1 1 c 11 ^at phi:l\osophy# . / 5 7 53 8360 1 1 c 11 ^and !very \often# . . / 5 7 53 8370 1 1 c 11 ^[dhi:] . "!specia'list st\udy# . / 5 7 53 8380 1 1 c 11 ^[dhi:] pur"!suit of the :d\iscipline# / 5 7 53 8390 1 2 c 11 is ^talked a'bout es"!pecially by / 5 7 53 8390 1 1 c 11 :non-sp\/ecialists# . / 5 7 53 8400 1 1 c 11 as if it ^w\ere# - / 5 7 53 8410 1 1 c 11 a ^n\arrowing 'process# / 5 7 53 8420 1 1 c 11 ^wh\/ereas# / 5 7 53 8430 1 1 c 11 it ^is in 'fact . a !br\oadening 'process# . / 5 7 53 8440 1 1 c 11 but ^what 'worries :m\e 'is# . / 5 7 53 8450 1 1 c 11 that . we ^often 'talk :very :gl\ibly# . / 5 7 53 8460 1 1 c 11 as if . [dhi] ^multi'plying of "!s\ub'jects# . / 5 7 53 8470 1 1 c 11 is ^s\omething# . / 5 7 53 8480 1 1 c 11 ^that c\an# . / 5 7 53 8490 1 1 c 11 [@] ^work a!g\ainst# / 5 7 53 8500 1 1 c 11 ^n\arrow'ness# / 5 7 53 8510 1 1 c 11 and ^sp\ecializ*'ation#* / 5 7 53 8520 2 1 c 21 I mean ^th\is for / 5 7 53 8530 1 1 ? 11 *^[/mhm]#* / 5 7 53 8520 1 1(c 11 'instance# / 5 7 53 8540 1 1 c 11 ^comes /up 'in# - / 5 7 53 8550 1 1 c 11 the ^r\ecent# / 5 7 54 8560 1 1 c 11 pro^p\osals# / 5 7 54 8570 1 1 c 11 or sug^g\estions# - / 5 7 54 8580 1 1 c 11 ^for [dhi:] :ch\anges# / 5 7 54 8590 1 1 c 11 ^in . [@: 'dhi: :@m] . _sixth 'form cur!!r\icula# -/ 5 7 54 8600 1 1 c 11 the sug^gestion that you :have - _five _subj=ects# / 5 7 54 8610 1 1 c 11 and ^then !three _subj=ects# - / 5 7 54 8620 1 1 c 11 ^and you !have your 'Q and !\F _level# . / 5 7 54 8630 1 1 c 11 there "^is the :strong 'implic/ation# . / 5 7 54 8640 1 1 c 11 that ^if you st\udy# . / 5 7 54 8650 1 1 c 11 "^many s\ub'jects# - / 5 7 54 8660 1 1 c 11 you`re ^g\oing - to 'be# . / 5 7 54 8670 1 1 c 11 ^br\oadening# / 5 7 54 8680 1 1 c 11 and en^r\iching# - / 5 7 54 8690 1 1 c 11 and ^varying your 'edu'cational exp\erience# - / 5 7 54 8700 1 2 c 11 and ^this is what you 'know I 'think we :r\eally / 5 7 54 8700 1 1 c 11 'ought to# - / 5 7 54 8710 1 1 c 11 to ^qu\estion {^very 'very str\ongly#}# . / 5 7 54 8720 1 1 a 11 but ^you s\ee# / 5 7 54 8730 1 1 a 11 ^if we`re conc\erned# . / 5 7 54 8740 1 1 a 12 as we ^[d] "^\I 'think# / 5 7 55 8750 1 1 a 11 we`ve ^g\ot to be conc/erned with# - / 5 7 55 8760 1 1 a 11 ^not only the pur:suit of :kn\owledge# / 5 7 55 8770 1 1 a 11 but ^as it w=ere# / 5 7 55 8780 1 1 a 11 the [k] ^{acqui_s\ition of} w\isdom# . / 5 7 55 8790 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - the ^reason that 'we are ex:panding the / 5 7 55 8790 1 1 a 11 edu:c\ation 'services# / 5 7 55 8800 1 1 a 11 is "^not 'just that the :g\overnment can {^h\ave#}#/ 5 7 55 8810 1 1 a 11 as ^m\any# - / 5 7 55 8820 1 1 a 11 ^technocr/ats# / 5 7 55 8830 1 1 a 11 or what^ever it 'is it`s sup:posed to :n\eed# / 5 7 55 8840 1 2 a 11 that - [t@] to in^crease the !gross 'national / 5 7 55 8840 1 1 a 11 :pr\oduct# / 5 7 55 8850 1 1 a 11 and ^all the !\other 'things# . / 5 7 55 8860 1 1 a 12 but be^cause we - ^we be!l\ieve# . / 5 7 55 8870 1 1 a 11 I ^don`t 'know if we !d\o be'lieve# / 5 7 55 8880 1 1 a 11 but ^\I be'lieve# / 5 7 55 8890 1 1 a 11 in [@] in a ^kind of !sweetly 'reasonable :w\ay# / 5 7 55 8900 1 2 a 12 ^I be'lieve that that . if the the ^indi'vidual`s / 5 7 55 8900 1 1 a 12 :under'standing is im!pr\oved# / 5 7 56 8910 1 1 a 11 then ^s\omehow# - / 5 7 56 8920 1 2 a 11 if e^nough indi'viduals . 'are :better / 5 7 56 8920 1 1 a 11 'under:st\/anding# / 5 7 56 8930 1 2 a 11 then - - [ju] you`re ^going to pro_duce a :better / 5 7 56 8930 1 1 a 11 !w\orld# / 5 7 56 8940 1 1 a 11 now ^let me . rephr\ase 'that# / 5 7 56 8950 1 1 a 11 and ^try and 'get it a :bit _cl\earer# / 5 7 56 8960 1 1 c 11 it ^s=ounds all 'right# / 5 7 56 8970 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - - ^it is !prejudice that 'causes / 5 7 56 8970 1 1 a 11 un:h\appinesses# / 5 7 56 8980 1 1 a 11 that ^causes !v\iolence# / 5 7 56 8990 1 1 a 11 and ^all sorts of th\ings# . / 5 7 56 9000 1 1 a 11 ^and - :one would !like to th\ink# / 5 7 56 9010 1 1 a 11 that ^edu'cation is !one m\ethod# . / 5 7 56 9020 1 1 a 11 that ^we would :\use# / 5 7 56 9030 1 1 a 11 in ^order to re'duce !pr\ejudice# / 5 7 56 9040 1 1 a 11 in ^other w\ords# / 5 7 57 9050 1 2 a 11 if we can ^get people to 'think a :little more / 5 7 57 9050 1 1 a 11 cl/early# . / 5 7 57 9060 1 1 a 11 to be ^l\ed# . / 5 7 57 9070 1 1 a 11 ^by . !c\areful t/eachers# . / 5 7 57 9080 1 1 a 11 ^g\ently# / 5 7 57 9090 1 1 a 11 and . ^by the :h\and# / 5 7 57 9100 1 1 a 11 ^talking 'all the w\ay# / 5 7 57 9110 1 1 a 11 that . ^they will be:come more . "!r\ational# - / 5 7 57 9120 1 2 a 11 and the ^way in 'which they will !tackle / 5 7 57 9120 1 1 a 11 !d\ifficult pr/oblems# . / 5 7 57 9130 1 1 a 11 ^w\ill 'be# . / 5 7 57 9140 1 1 a 11 [@:m] more ^s\ensible# / 5 7 57 9150 1 1 a 11 more ^r\easonable# / 5 7 57 9160 1 1 a 11 less ^v\iolent# / 5 7 57 9170 1 1 a 11 less in^fl\ammatory# . / 5 7 57 9180 1 2 a 11 and the ^world 'therefore will :gradually be'come a/ 5 7 57 9180 1 1 a 11 :better place in 'which to l\ive# - / 5 7 57 9190 1 1 a 11 [@:m] ^once people 'got the :id\ea# / 5 7 57 9200 1 1 a 11 that ^women who did :funny th\ings# / 5 7 57 9210 1 1 a 11 be^cause they were 'going through the !m\enopause# / 5 7 58 9220 1 1 a 11 ^weren`t really w\itches# / 5 7 58 9230 1 1 a 11 you ^didn`t have to !d\uck `em into p/onds# . / 5 7 58 9240 1 1 a 11 ^or b\urn them# . / 5 7 58 9250 1 1 a 11 [@:m] and ^you de'velop in 'this kind of :w\ay# . / 5 7 58 9260 1 1 a 11 [@:m] I`m ^nineteenth 'century in :th\is sense# / 5 7 58 9270 1 1 a 11 as I be^lie((ve)) . !very m\uch# / 5 7 58 9280 1 2 a 13 that ^if you . ^if you know [@v] e^nough of us can / 5 7 58 9280 1 1 a 13 . 'keep :c\alm# / 5 7 58 9290 1 1 a 11 and ^under:st\and 'things# / 5 7 58 9300 1 1 a 11 we`ll have ^less !tr\ouble# . / 5 7 58 9310 1 1 a 11 now it ^m\ay 'be# / 5 7 58 9320 1 1 a 11 that ^this is !s\o out of 'date n/ow# / 5 7 58 9330 1 1 a 11 that [t] we`re ^fighting a :losing b\attle# / 5 7 58 9340 1 1 a 11 [?] ^even on !th\at one# . / 5 7 58 9350 1 1 a 12 ^but _with . you ^kn\ow# / 5 7 58 9360 1 2 a 11 the ^passing of 'Bertie 'Russell 'made me !th\ink / 5 7 58 9360 1 1 a 11 of th/is# . / 5 7 59 9370 1 1 a 11 [@:m] ^he {bel\ieved} I th\ink# - / 5 7 59 9380 1 2 a 11 that it [@:m] - the sort of . ^good sc\ien'tific / 5 7 59 9380 1 1 a 11 in{^t\elligence#}# / 5 7 59 9390 1 1 a 11 ^h\olding it'self# . / 5 7 59 9400 1 1 a 11 a^long this :long j\ourney# / 5 7 59 9410 1 1 a 12 pro^duced a :world of - [@:] a ^b\etter 'world# / 5 7 59 9420 1 1 a 11 be^cause there were !m\ore 'people /in it# / 5 7 59 9430 1 1 a 11 ^who were _more !th\oughtful# . / 5 7 59 9440 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - and ^I`m just "!t\orn# . / 5 7 59 9450 1 1 a 11 to ^s\ay# / 5 7 59 9460 1 1 a 11 ^{what I 'said ag/\ain} at the be:g\inning# / 5 7 59 9470 1 1 a 11 ^I`m just !t\orn be'tween the th/ought# / 5 7 59 9480 1 1 a 11 that ^r\eally# / 5 7 59 9490 1 2 a 12 ^this is 'just a _journey one 'does for . ^by / 5 7 59 9490 1 1 a 12 ones\elf# - / 5 7 59 9500 1 1 a 11 and that . ^even if you _do reach "!s\omething# / 5 7 59 9510 1 1 a 11 that ^seems like a 'level of underst\anding# - / 5 7 59 9520 1 1 a 11 ^all you can 'do with it is kind of :n\urse it# - / 5 7 59 9530 1 2 a 11 you know like the ^lovely chry_santhemum you`ve / 5 7 59 9530 1 1 a 11 :grown in your :own g\arden# / 5 7 60 9540 1 1 a 11 if you [k] ^chop its 'head off it d\ies# / 5 7 60 9550 2 1 a 21 *so you* / 5 7 60 9560 1 1 c 20 *[@u]* / 5 7 60 9550 1 1(a 11 can just ^keep it and :l\ook 'at it# . / 5 7 60 9570 1 1 a 12 but ^I I would ^like to 'think it`s :not tr\ue# / 5 7 60 9580 1 1 a 11 I would ^like to 'think you can :sh\are this# . / 5 7 60 9590 1 1 a 11 and ^s\/ome'how# / 5 7 60 9600 1 1 a 11 ^this will pro:d\uce# - / 5 7 60 9610 1 1 a 11 [@:m ?] ^good !p\ositive re'sults# / 5 7 60 9620 1 1 a 11 by ^which I m/\ean# . / 5 7 60 9630 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - . that ^people will 'find it more :\easy# / 5 7 60 9640 1 1 a 11 to ^live with each :\other# . / 5 7 60 9650 1 1 a 11 and ^s\o on# - / 5 7 60 9660 1 2 d 11 well [@] but [@] you`ve ^taken ((us)) 'right 'back / 5 7 60 9660 1 1 d 11 to the beg\inning# / 5 7 61 9670 1 1 d 11 and in a ^s/ense# / 5 7 61 9680 1 1 d 11 the dis^cussion has !\always# / 5 7 61 9690 1 1 d 11 ^been a'bout 'what [wd] :what _what _y\ou 'said# / 5 7 61 9700 1 2 d 12 and ^what 'we said in re^pl\y to you at the _very / 5 7 61 9700 1 1 d 12 be_ginning# / 5 8 1 10 1 1 a 11 I saw ^P\auline last 'week# / 5 8 1 20 1 1 a 11 she was ^looking a _lot b\etter# . / 5 8 1 30 1 1 b 11 ^((what)) !d\/id you# / 5 8 1 40 1 1 b 11 ^what do you th\ink {^r\eally#}# / 5 8 1 50 1 1 b 20 [@:] . / 5 8 1 60 1 1 a 11 ^oh she looked 'very :w\ell# / 5 8 1 70 1 1 a 12 ^not . ^not ex:actly !f\/at yet but# / 5 8 1 80 1 1 b 20 ( - - laughs) *((2 sylls fattening yet))* / 5 8 2 90 1 1 a 11 *well ^no she had* !((c\olour in))# . / 5 8 2 100 1 1 a 11 she ^looked very !h\appy# / 5 8 2 110 1 1 b 11 ((did)) ^[?]sh/e# / 5 8 2 120 1 1 b 11 I ^think she \is a lot 'happier# / 5 8 2 130 1 1 b 11 she was ^talking to 'me 'last n\ight# / 5 8 2 140 1 1 b 11 and - I ^got the :general im:pr\ession# / 5 8 3 150 1 1 b 11 because ^I was a !bit w\orried# / 5 8 3 160 1 1 b 11 ^how it would have 'worked _\out# / 5 8 3 170 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 3 180 1 1(b 11 *and I* mean you ^can`t "s\ay# - / 5 8 3 190 1 1 b 11 ^w\ell# / 5 8 3 200 1 1 b 11 ^is it 'working 'out all r\ight# / 5 8 3 210 1 1 b 11 ^\/I was 'happy# / 5 8 3 220 1 1 b 11 but [@:] . I ^wondered how sh\e re_acted# / 5 8 4 230 1 1 b 11 ^what she`d exp/ected and# - / 5 8 4 240 1 1 b 12 ^she [@:] ^seemed !v\ery 'happy# / 5 8 4 250 1 1 b 11 ((2 sylls)) we`re ^going to 'have a p\/arty# / 5 8 4 260 1 1 b 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 8 4 270 1 1 a 11 *^/are you#;.*; / 5 8 4 280 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 4 290 1 1 b 11 she ^came into my 'room last n/ight# / 5 8 5 300 1 1 b 11 and . ^crouched on the b/ed and# - / 5 8 5 310 1 2 b 11 ((1 syll ^2 sylls)) . _went off and 'started / 5 8 5 310 1 1 b 11 in_v\iting p/eople# / 5 8 5 320 1 1 b 11 but [@:] ^this is for :Chr\istmas# - / 5 8 5 330 1 2 b 11 [@?] because ^she`s not :d\oing anything for / 5 8 5 330 1 1 b 11 'Christmas at the m/oment# / 5 8 5 340 1 1 b 12 ^I don`t know :what - ^seems !\awful# / 5 8 5 350 1 1 b 11 because ^Helen and :I are :going :h\/ome# / 5 8 6 360 2 2 b 22 [@] *and ^she`s* 'staying - - oh well her ^father`s/ 5 8 6 360 2 1 b 22 'going to be / 5 8 6 370 1 1 a 21 *and ^she`s* / 5 8 6 360 1 1(b 12 a:w\ay you s/ee# - / 5 8 6 380 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 7 390 1 1 b 11 and [@] - - she`s "^just m\entioned# / 5 8 7 400 1 1 b 11 ^every 'now and th\en# / 5 8 7 410 1 1 b 11 that it`s ^going to be 'rather !gl\oomy# / 5 8 7 420 1 1 b 20 *and I* / 5 8 7 430 1 1 a 11 *it`s ^going* to be !t\errible for her# / 5 8 7 440 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 8 7 450 1 1 b 12 so I ^don`t know 'what ^[i?] I f\eel# / 5 8 8 460 1 1 b 11 ^y\ou _know# . / 5 8 8 470 1 2 b 12 "^I [w] "^I ((will)) 'probably 'only 'go a'way for / 5 8 8 470 1 1 b 12 'Christmas D\ay# / 5 8 8 480 1 2 b 12 and and ^when I ^don`t know 'what we`re 'going to / 5 8 8 480 1 1 b 12 'do at :h\ome# / 5 8 8 490 1 1 b 11 I ^mean she ((could)) 'come !h\ome# - / 5 8 8 500 1 1 b 11 but [@m] it de^pends . "what we`re d\oing and# / 5 8 8 510 1 1 b 11 ^y\ou _know# / 5 8 8 520 1 1 b 12 ^how ^how the 'rest of the . f\/amily# *-* / 5 8 8 530 1 1 b 11 ^are dis!p\osed# / 5 8 9 540 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 9 550 1 2 a 12 ^doesn`t she _have [@m] she ^has a brother and / 5 8 9 550 1 1 a 12 !s\ister# / 5 8 9 560 1 1 b 11 ^[/\m]# / 5 8 9 570 1 1 b 11 ^th\/ey`re 'going a'way# / 5 8 9 580 1 1 b 11 to ^Gr\eece or s/omewhere# - / 5 8 10 590 1 1 a 11 to ^wh/ere# - / 5 8 10 600 1 1 b 11 I ^think they`re 'going to :Gr\eece# / 5 8 10 610 1 1 a 11 ^Gr\eece# / 5 8 10 620 1 1 b 11 [@:m] "^n\o {I ^don`t kn\ow#}# / 5 8 10 630 1 1 b 11 [@:m] they`re ^going a:br\oad 'somewhere# - - / 5 8 10 640 1 1 b 11 but . ^quite wh\ere# / 5 8 10 650 1 1 b 11 I`m . ^not s\ure# - / 5 8 11 660 1 1 b 12 [@] - ^we were ^we were :th\inking of 'doing# / 5 8 11 670 1 1 b 11 ^Christmas p\uddings# / 5 8 11 680 1 1 b 11 and ^Christmas c\akes# / 5 8 11 690 2 1 b 21 *but we`ve ^come* / 5 8 11 700 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 8 11 690 1 1(b 11 'down to _doing _mince-!!p=ies# / 5 8 11 710 1 1 b 20 ( - +-+ laughs) / 5 8 12 720 1 1 a 20 +( - laughs)+ / 5 8 12 730 1 1 b 11 I`m ^still on the . on the :c\ooking 'lark# / 5 8 12 740 1 2 b 13 but [@] - - ^I`ve . ^I`ve . I`ve ^lowered my / 5 8 12 740 1 1 b 13 'sights a _b\it and# . / 5 8 12 750 1 1 b 11 I made ^cauliflower :ch\eese on S/unday# / 5 8 12 760 1 1 b 11 and ^that was 'quite suc:c\essful# / 5 8 13 770 1 1 a 11 ^f\unny# / 5 8 13 780 1 1 a 11 ^that`s what !\I 'started with# / 5 8 13 790 1 1 a 11 *^cauliflower ch\eese#* / 5 8 13 800 1 2 b 11 *( - laughs)* - well they`re so ^r\easonable at the/ 5 8 13 800 1 1 b 11 m/oment you 'see# / 5 8 13 810 1 1 b 11 and [@:m] I ^thought well I I !{\ought} at :l\east#/ 5 8 14 820 1 1 b 11 to ^know 'how to do th/at# / 5 8 14 830 1 1 b 11 but ^having a'chieved a 'white s\auce# / 5 8 14 840 1 1 b 11 or a ^ch\eese 'sauce# - / 5 8 14 850 1 1 b 11 I I ^felt [@] - _things were _all r\ight# - - - / 5 8 14 860 1 2 b 12 and I`ve got ^R\achel 'coming for 'supper on - - / 5 8 14 860 1 1 b 12 ^Th\ursday *n/ight#* / 5 8 15 870 1 1 a 11 *^Rachel* N\ewton# / 5 8 15 880 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 15 890 1 1 b 11 ^that`s r/ight# / 5 8 15 900 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - / 5 8 15 910 1 2 b 12 ^she [@m] - well she((`d)) ^pr\omised {to come / 5 8 15 910 1 1 b 12 ^\over#}# / 5 8 15 920 1 1 b 11 ^y\ou _know# / 5 8 15 930 1 1 b 12 ^I`ve ^I`ve been 'down to h\er {for a ^week\end#}# / 5 8 15 940 1 1 b 11 and [@] - ^so [@] !\anyway# / 5 8 16 950 1 1 b 11 she ^rang me :\up# / 5 8 16 960 1 1 b 11 and she was ^very "w\orried# / 5 8 16 970 1 1 b 11 a^bout her _c\ourse and *((_everything))#* / 5 8 16 980 1 1 a 12 *^has* ^has it impr/oved# / 5 8 16 990 1 2 a 11 cos ^I had a 'long . 'talk to her about *. _two / 5 8 16 990 1 1 a 11 weeks ag\o#* / 5 8 16 1000 1 1 b 11 *oh ^d\id you#* / 5 8 16 1010 1 1 b 11 ^\oh# - - / 5 8 17 1020 1 1 a 11 sort of . es"^s\entially 'really# / 5 8 17 1030 2 1 a 21 ^told **her** to !get "!t\ough / 5 8 17 1040 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 5 8 17 1030 1 1(a 11 a'bout it# . / 5 8 17 1050 2 1 a 21 *((and if she)) I* ^don`t know if / 5 8 17 1060 1 1 b 11 *well ^that`s what :\I said#* / 5 8 18 1050 1 1(a 11 it was 'good :p\/olicy# / 5 8 18 1070 1 1 a 11 but . it ^seemed the 'only 'thing to !s\ay# / 5 8 18 1080 1 1 a 11 she was in ^such a m\ess# / 5 8 18 1090 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 18 1100 1 1 a 11 ^m\ind you I# / 5 8 18 1110 1 1 a 11 I ^felt ( - laughs) !!quite a h\ypocrite# / 5 8 18 1120 1 2 a 11 ^telling her 'this when 'I ((was)) in such a 'mess / 5 8 18 1120 1 1 a 11 over :m\ine# / 5 8 19 1130 1 1 b 11 well ^that`s what !\I 'thought# / 5 8 19 1140 1 1 b 11 I I was ^s\aying to her# . / 5 8 19 1150 1 1 b 11 [@:] . well ^\I got 'into a st/ate# . / 5 8 19 1160 1 1 b 11 and ^I re_member !this 'time _last y\/ear# / 5 8 19 1170 1 1 b 11 I was saying ^oh there`s 'so much w/ork# / 5 8 20 1180 1 1 b 11 I`ll ^never get "thr\/ough it# / 5 8 20 1190 1 1 b 11 and ^all the 'people I 'haven`t d\/one# / 5 8 20 1200 1 1 a 11 *^[/m]#* / 5 8 20 1210 1 1(b 11 *and* . ^th/is _kind of 'thing# / 5 8 20 1220 1 1 b 11 that [@] - I ^don`t . kn\/ow# / 5 8 20 1230 1 1 b 12 ^they they ^seem to 'have this _p\olicy# / 5 8 21 1240 1 1 b 11 of of [@m] ^s/aying# / 5 8 21 1250 1 1 b 11 well - you ^mustn`t 'write tu'torial /essays# / 5 8 21 1260 1 1 b 11 [@:] - ^with the ex'ams in !m\ind# / 5 8 21 1270 1 1 b 11 and I ^don`t 'see at :th\/is stage# / 5 8 21 1280 1 1 b 11 ^how - she can a!v\oid it# - - / 5 8 21 1290 1 1 a 11 ^no !\I don`t# / 5 8 21 1300 1 1 a 12 ^I I ^don`t at !\all# / 5 8 22 1310 1 2 a 11 I - - - I ^think she`s 'got quite a :pr\oblem / 5 8 22 1310 1 1 a 11 'there# / 5 8 22 1320 1 2 a 11 un^less she 'actually ( . laughs) 'sort of / 5 8 22 1320 1 1 a 11 in!s\/ists in a 'way# / 5 8 22 1330 1 1 a 20 and *. ((4 to 5 sylls))* / 5 8 22 1340 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]# . / 5 8 22 1350 1 1 b 11 well "^\I sug'gested# / 5 8 22 1360 1 1 b 11 she* ^had a 'word with _someone :\else# / 5 8 22 1370 1 1 b 11 but [m] *[ae]* and ^outlined her :w\orries# / 5 8 23 1380 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 23 1390 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 23 1400 1 1(b 11 but I I ^when I :thought of it :\/afterwards# / 5 8 23 1410 1 1 b 11 it ^would be a 'difficult situ\ation# - - / 5 8 23 1420 1 1 a 11 ^well you kn\ow# / 5 8 23 1430 1 2 a 12 [l] ( - laughs) ^if [@:m] - ^if ((people like)) / 5 8 23 1430 1 1 a 12 :tutors 'can`t . :can`t be ab/ove# / 5 8 24 1440 1 1 a 11 sort of ^personal f/eelings# *-* / 5 8 24 1450 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* - - / 5 8 24 1460 1 1 b 11 "^y\es# / 5 8 24 1470 1 1 b 11 but **they "^are h\uman#** / 5 8 24 1480 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]# / 5 8 24 1490 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]#** / 5 8 24 1500 1 1 b 11 so I ^think she`s 'got a pr\oblem# - / 5 8 24 1510 1 1 b 11 ^\anyway# / 5 8 24 1520 1 1 b 11 she`s ^going to . "c\ome on 'Thursday# / 5 8 25 1530 1 1 b 11 and she said for ^heaven`s s\ake# / 5 8 25 1540 1 1 b 11 ^don`t get 'any . elaborate s\upper# . / 5 8 25 1550 1 1 a 20 *( - - laughs)* / 5 8 25 1560 1 1(b 11 *((because)) I ^want to !t\alk#* - - / 5 8 25 1570 1 1 b 11 ^s=o# / 5 8 25 1580 1 2 b 11 [@] I ^thought I`d 'do 'something 'fairly / 5 8 25 1580 1 1 b 11 s\imple# . / 5 8 26 1590 1 1 b 11 ^and w\/arm# - / 5 8 26 1600 1 1 b 11 and ^then we`ll . _scarper 'off _upst\airs# / 5 8 26 1610 1 1 b 11 and *-* and ^ch\at# - / 5 8 26 1620 1 1 b 20 **((so))** / 5 8 26 1630 1 1 a 11 *^y=es#* - / 5 8 26 1640 1 1 a 11 **^yes** she was !!terribly f\unny# / 5 8 26 1650 1 1 a 11 about ^three w\eeks ago# / 5 8 26 1660 1 1 a 11 she ^came \in# - / 5 8 26 1670 1 1 a 11 saying ^oh my - G\od# / 5 8 26 1680 1 1 a 12 ^I [fi] ^I feel !t\errible# - - / 5 8 27 1690 1 1 a 12 and [@] she ^some ^some man had pro_p\osed to her# / 5 8 27 1700 1 1 a 11 the ^night be!f\ore# / 5 8 27 1710 1 1 a 20 and *( - laughs)* / 5 8 27 1720 1 1 b 11 *^oh n\o#;-*; / 5 8 27 1730 1 1 b 11 ^poor R/achel# / 5 8 27 1740 1 1 a 11 it had com^pletely [@:] :put her off b\alance# / 5 8 27 1750 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) she`d ^((s\ort of))# *.* / 5 8 28 1760 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 28 1770 1 1(a 11 ^seen a :friend fly :out of the :w\indow# / 5 8 28 1780 1 1 a 11 as ((he`d)) be^come too \intimate# / 5 8 28 1790 1 1 a 11 and it was - it was ^terribly str\ange# / 5 8 28 1800 1 2 a 11 be^cause she`s a _strange 'mixture of - - of 'being/ 5 8 28 1800 1 1 a 11 [s@] :somewhat \older# / 5 8 28 1810 1 2 a 11 and ^yet at the _same _time _rather . !rather / 5 8 28 1810 1 1 a 11 !y\oung she appears# / 5 8 29 1820 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 29 1830 1 1 b 11 well ^that`s the the the :funny !th\ing# / 5 8 29 1840 1 2 b 11 because it . ^wasn`t till [@:] - :{r\eally} this / 5 8 29 1840 1 1 b 11 :s\/ummer# . / 5 8 29 1850 1 1 b 11 when ^I was 'going :d\own to her# / 5 8 29 1860 1 1 b 11 and I ^said to my :m\other# / 5 8 29 1870 1 1 b 12 ^oh . I`m . I`m ^going to see :R\/achel# - / 5 8 30 1880 1 1 b 11 [@:m] it ^suddenly str\uck me# / 5 8 30 1890 1 1 b 11 that ^Rachel was . :really 'more :h\/er age# / 5 8 30 1900 1 1 b 11 than ^m\ine# / 5 8 30 1910 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 5 8 30 1920 1 1 b 11 and ^y=et# . / 5 8 30 1930 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not as 'though she`s _imma!t\ure# . / 5 8 30 1940 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t th/ink# / 5 8 31 1950 1 1 a 11 ^[@m] !n\o# / 5 8 31 1960 1 1(b 11 [@:] ex^/actly# / 5 8 31 1970 1 1 b 12 it she`s ^just [@ - m] ^w\ell# / 5 8 31 1980 1 2 b 11 I ^just never _think of the _time or the {\age} . / 5 8 31 1980 1 1 b 11 *!d\iff*erence# - - / 5 8 31 1990 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 31 2000 1 2(b 12 she ^it`s [i] per^haps she 'has to 'make an / 5 8 31 2000 1 1(b 12 /\effort# / 5 8 32 2010 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t kn/\ow# / 5 8 32 2020 1 2 b 12 to . ex"^cept that with her :daughter 'being / 5 8 32 2020 1 1 b 12 :r\oughly our ^well not :r\/oughly our 'age# / 5 8 32 2030 1 1 b 11 but ^she`s eight*\een# . / 5 8 32 2040 1 1 b 11 ((about)) ^m\y age# / 5 8 32 2050 1 1 a 11 *^that`s y\our age# / 5 8 32 2060 1 1 a 11 ( - . laughs) I`m ^s/orry# / 5 8 32 2070 1 1 a 20 ( - - - laughs)* / 5 8 32 2080 1 1(b 11 ( - - - laughs) [@:]* - ^I sup!p=ose# - / 5 8 32 2090 1 2 b 11 ^she [@] - - per'haps is \/used to 'fitting [i] and/ 5 8 32 2090 1 1 b 11 her s\on of 'course# / 5 8 32 2100 1 1 b 11 is . ^\older# / 5 8 32 2110 1 1 b 11 [?@] ^he`s in his !tw\enties# - / 5 8 32 2120 2 1 b 21 *[@:m]* - - / 5 8 33 2130 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 33 2120 1 2(b 11 so she ^must be \used to _getting _on with a _lot / 5 8 33 2120 1 1(b 11 of _younger p/eople# / 5 8 33 2140 1 1 b 11 [@:] and ^joining in :w\/ith them# - / 5 8 33 2150 1 2 b 11 and she ^always 'strikes me {as in:credibly y\oung}/ 5 8 33 2150 1 1 b 11 in 'in her - in her :w\/ays# / 5 8 33 2160 1 1 b 11 which is ^l\ovely# - - / 5 8 33 2170 1 1 b 20 and . *((1 syll))* / 5 8 33 2180 1 1 a 11 *yes* I`ve ^used her :gh\/ost story# / 5 8 33 2190 1 1 a 11 ^so many t\/imes# / 5 8 33 2200 1 2 a 11 you know the ^one a"bout - . the 'haunted 'house in/ 5 8 33 2200 1 1 a 11 - in R\eigate# . / 5 8 34 2210 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# / 5 8 34 2220 1 1 b 11 ^she didn`t t\ell me *((that))#* / 5 8 34 2230 1 2 a 12 *^oh* she :t\old me 'this [@:m] - ^think it was . / 5 8 34 2230 1 1 a 12 be'fore the 'second to 'last . :f\inals ex'am# / 5 8 34 2240 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 34 2250 1 2 a 12 ^when we were . we were ^sitting in the / 5 8 34 2250 1 1 a 12 'can!t\een# - / 5 8 34 2260 1 2 a 11 and she [s] ^oh do you 'know the :haunted !house in/ 5 8 34 2260 1 1 a 11 :R\eigate# / 5 8 34 2270 1 1 a 11 and pro^ceeded to 'tell me th/is# *- / 5 8 35 2280 1 1 b 11 *( - laughs) ((well)) "^what \is it# / 5 8 35 2290 1 1 b 11 ^th\at`s#* / 5 8 35 2300 1 1 a 11 ^pl\ease#;-*; / 5 8 35 2310 1 1 a 11 ^Jennie :st\op# - - - / 5 8 35 2320 1 1 a 11 oh just ^how she was :staying a:l\one in# - / 5 8 35 2330 1 1 a 11 the [@m] - ^\older p/art# / 5 8 35 2340 1 1 a 11 of a ^t\/otally 'very 'old# . / 5 8 35 2350 1 1 a 11 ^daub and !w\attle 'house# / 5 8 35 2360 1 1 b 11 ^[\/m]# / 5 8 35 2370 1 1 a 11 and ^how she _((heard)) re:p\eated# . / 5 8 35 2380 1 1 a 11 "^bangs on the !c\eiling# - / 5 8 35 2390 1 1 a 11 ^thinking it was her s\on# / 5 8 35 2400 1 1 a 11 she ^f\inally# / 5 8 35 2410 1 1 a 11 [s] ^dashed 'upst\airs to# . / 5 8 35 2420 1 1 a 11 to con^fr\/ont him 'with it# / 5 8 36 2430 1 1 a 11 and ^make him 'get into b/ed# . / 5 8 36 2440 1 1 a 11 and there was ^nobody th\ere# / 5 8 36 2450 1 1 b 20 ( - laughs) *((2 sylls))* / 5 8 36 2460 1 1 a 11 *^and 'how* 'her !d\aughter had become# . / 5 8 36 2470 1 1 a 11 ^slightly cr\azy# / 5 8 36 2480 1 2 a 11 ^even though she ((was)) _only . about _five years / 5 8 36 2480 1 1 a 11 \old# / 5 8 36 2490 1 1 a 11 ^while she was th\ere# / 5 8 36 2500 1 1 a 11 and ^used to !peer _round !d\oors# / 5 8 36 2510 1 2 a 11 and ap^pear to be com_municating with *- with / 5 8 36 2510 1 1 a 11 !!s\/omething# / 5 8 37 2520 1 1 a 20 ( - - laughs)* / 5 8 37 2530 1 2 b 11 *( - laughs) well it ^does sound a 'bit like* the / 5 8 37 2530 1 1 b 11 :Turn of the !Scr\ew or s/omething#;**-; / 5 8 37 2540 1 1 b 11 ^d\oesn`t it#** / 5 8 37 2550 1 1 a 11 ^yes it **d\oes a b/it#** / 5 8 37 2560 1 1 a 12 ^yes she [s] ^actually it was :m\arvellous# / 5 8 37 2570 1 1 a 11 she ^told us this st/ory# / 5 8 37 2580 1 2 a 11 when we were ^all 'feeling [@d] :all . 'feeling / 5 8 37 2580 1 1 a 11 :absolutely dr/\eadful# . / 5 8 37 2590 1 1 a 11 and [@m] - it ^really sort of :livened us :\up# / 5 8 38 2600 1 1 a 11 for the ^after'noon`s ex:\am# / 5 8 38 2610 1 1 a 11 we ^didn`t feel !h\alf as 'bad# / 5 8 38 2620 1 1 a 11 when we . *when we ^g/ot there# / 5 8 38 2630 1 1 a 20 ((1 to 2 sylls))* / 5 8 38 2640 1 2 b 12 *( - - - laughs)* - - ^I`d I ^think I be:l\ieve in / 5 8 38 2640 1 1 b 12 'ghosts# / 5 8 38 2650 1 1 b 11 [i] in in ^that w\ay# . / 5 8 38 2660 1 2 b 11 I ^mean I !don`t be'lieve in - the :\ordinary / 5 8 38 2660 1 1 b 11 gh/ost# / 5 8 38 2670 1 2 b 11 but . the ^some kind of :spiritual pr\/esence I / 5 8 38 2670 1 1 b 11 _think# - / 5 8 38 2680 1 1 b 12 I ^think is . there are ^too !m\any oc'currences# / 5 8 39 2690 1 1 b 11 I mean it ^c\ould# / 5 8 39 2700 1 1 b 11 this "^b\anging on {the ^c\eiling#}# / 5 8 39 2710 1 1 b 11 could have been ^water in the !p\ipes# / 5 8 39 2720 1 1 b 11 or or the ^central !h\eating or _something# / 5 8 39 2730 1 1 b 11 ^if they :h\/ave it# - - / 5 8 39 2740 1 1 b 11 ^I *supp/ose#* / 5 8 39 2750 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 39 2760 1 1 b 11 I [mi:] "^I`ve found th/is# / 5 8 39 2770 1 1 b 11 at at ^Tufnell !P\ark# / 5 8 39 2780 1 1 b 11 [@m] - because ^every'body . is /out# / 5 8 39 2790 1 1 b 11 ^during the d/ay 'or# . / 5 8 39 2800 1 1 b 11 at ^l\east# . / 5 8 39 2810 1 1 b 11 ^people 'come in at !odd _t\imes# / 5 8 40 2820 1 1 b 11 ^s\ometimes for /instance# / 5 8 40 2830 1 1 b 11 [?@] this ^girl who`s 'working at the _BB!\C# / 5 8 40 2840 1 1 b 11 you see ^she has all :different !sh\ift hours# - / 5 8 40 2850 1 1 b 11 and she`s ^in and \out# / 5 8 40 2860 1 1 b 11 [@m] . ^but there`re !quite \often# . / 5 8 40 2870 1 1 b 11 I suppose ^six or 'seven h\ours# / 5 8 40 2880 1 1 b 11 when I`m ^really 'on my \own# / 5 8 40 2890 1 1 b 11 which is "^l\ovely# - / 5 8 40 2900 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - but ^when I`m {s\itting} up:st\airs# / 5 8 41 2910 1 1 b 11 you ^hear n/oises# / 5 8 41 2920 1 1 b 11 and . ^d/oors 'creak# / 5 8 41 2930 1 1 b 11 and and ^doors "!\open in 'fact# / 5 8 41 2940 1 1 b 11 though I`ve I`ve ^found 'that`s just the :dr\aught#/ 5 8 41 2950 1 1 b 11 but - ^course at the be!g\inning# / 5 8 41 2960 1 1 b 11 I`d I`d ^get \up# / 5 8 41 2970 1 1 b 11 and ^go \out# / 5 8 41 2980 1 1 b 11 and say ^\oh# / 5 8 41 2990 1 1 b 11 ^y\/ou 'know# / 5 8 41 3000 1 1 b 11 ^who`s th\ere# - / 5 8 41 3010 1 1 b 11 *-* and [@] . there`s ^nobody at !\all# . / 5 8 42 3020 1 1 a 20 *( . laughs)* / 5 8 42 3030 1 2(b 11 and [@] - - oh a ^thing that t\errifies me / 5 8 42 3030 1 1(b 11 :{^t\oo#}# / 5 8 42 3040 1 1 b 11 is is ^having a !g\as-'stove# . / 5 8 42 3050 1 2 b 16 ^just ^just be'cause ^I ^I ^I [g] ^soon got :used / 5 8 42 3050 1 1 b 16 to :\/using it# / 5 8 42 3060 1 2 b 11 it ^wasn`t that 'there was any :d\ifficulty / 5 8 42 3060 1 1 b 11 inv/olved# / 5 8 42 3070 1 2 b 11 but . I ^always 'have this :terrible 'fear that / 5 8 42 3070 1 1 b 11 I`ve :left the _gas !\on# / 5 8 42 3080 1 1 b 11 or ^left {s\omething} \on# . / 5 8 42 3090 1 1 b 11 the "^\oven 'on# / 5 8 43 3100 1 1 b 11 ^someone 'left the \oven 'on _once# / 5 8 43 3110 1 1 b 12 ^I it ^wasn`t m\/e# / 5 8 43 3120 1 2 b 12 but ( - sighs) ^I [@] I ^have this !f\ear of the / 5 8 43 3120 1 1 b 12 g/as-*'stove#;-*; / 5 8 43 3130 1 1 b 11 when I`m ^on my \own# / 5 8 43 3140 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 8 43 3150 1 1(b 11 or ^going \out# / 5 8 43 3160 1 1 b 11 or [?] and ^leaving the _{h\ouse} on its \own# - / 5 8 43 3170 1 1 b 11 as it ^w/ere# / 5 8 43 3180 1 1 II 20 (cut in tape) / 5 8 43 3190 1 1 b 11 but ^\anyway# / 5 8 43 3200 1 1 b 12 ^how ^how did [@:] 'Tom get 'on in Am\erica# - / 5 8 44 3210 1 1 a 11 ^\oh _he [@:m]# - - / 5 8 44 3220 1 1 a 11 he ^had a "!m\ixed 'time r/eally# . / 5 8 44 3230 1 1 a 11 ^it was a !sh\ame {to the ex^t\ent#}# / 5 8 44 3240 1 1 a 11 he ^went with - with s\omebody with 'whom he`d# . / 5 8 44 3250 1 1 a 11 ^never been a'way *bef\ore#* / 5 8 44 3260 2 1 a 21 and [@m] - - it was ^also this 'man`s / 5 8 44 3270 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 45 3260 1 1(a 11 :first 'time ((of)) b\eing in A'merica# - / 5 8 45 3280 1 1 a 11 ^and he was _very !sh\ocked by the 'place# / 5 8 45 3290 1 1 a 11 be^cause you know !being in the 'deep S\outh# / 5 8 45 3300 1 1 a 11 it was [@:m] - - ^very c\ommon# / 5 8 45 3310 1 1 a 11 to [s] ^g\/o down the 'street# / 5 8 45 3320 1 2 a 13 and ^have . ^half . ^half a 'dozen _coloured / 5 8 45 3320 1 1 a 13 _people _impor_tuning _you for their w\atches# / 5 8 45 3330 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 46 3340 1 1 a 11 and and ^things like :th\is# / 5 8 46 3350 1 1 a 11 [@m] - ^oh and 'just 'people 'asking for m\oney# - / 5 8 46 3360 1 1 a 11 for ^{dr\inks} and !f\ood all the t/ime# / 5 8 46 3370 1 2 a 11 was sort of - - ^slightly "{h\arrowing} I / 5 8 46 3370 1 1 a 11 sup:p\/ose# / 5 8 46 3380 1 1 a 11 if you - ^not 'used to it !h\ere# / 5 8 46 3390 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# - / 5 8 46 3400 1 1 a 11 ^and [@m] - - !not s\imply th/at but# - - - / 5 8 46 3410 1 2 a 11 ^Thomas [@m] 'reckoned that the :whole 'place was / 5 8 46 3410 1 1 a 11 :totally [@m] :\/orgasm-_minded {^\/anyway#}# / 5 8 46 3420 1 2 a 11 which ^which he 'found ((it)) 'rather / 5 8 46 3420 1 1 a 11 'off-p\utting# - / 5 8 47 3430 1 1 a 11 ^and [@m] - - they \also 'felt that# - / 5 8 47 3440 1 1 a 11 there`s a ^tremendous 'level of dish\onesty# / 5 8 47 3450 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 47 3460 1 2 a 11 ^in that - - they were 'meeting - - 'clients . and / 5 8 47 3460 1 1 a 11 b\usiness men {the ^whole t\ime#}# - / 5 8 47 3470 1 2 a 11 ^who in the 'evenings _were - _talking a'bout what / 5 8 47 3470 1 1 a 11 'great fr\iends they all 'were to_gether# / 5 8 48 3480 2 1 a 21 *and* the the ^next / 5 8 48 3490 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 48 3480 1 1(a 11 m\orning# / 5 8 48 3500 1 2 a 11 ((they)) were ^doing 'deals be'hind each 'other`s / 5 8 48 3500 1 1 a 11 b\/acks **and 'so** on# - / 5 8 48 3510 2 1 a 21 ^which - !Thomas and . / 5 8 48 3520 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 5 8 48 3510 1 1(a 11 th=is _man# / 5 8 48 3530 1 1 a 12 ^[di] . ^just 'didn`t 'seem to be :\used to# . / 5 8 49 3540 1 1 b 11 I ^think - 'this is 'probably a :d\ifference# / 5 8 49 3550 1 1 b 11 be^tween 'English and A:m\ericans# / 5 8 49 3560 1 1 b 11 [?@] it`s ^probably :ironing :\/out but# - / 5 8 49 3570 1 1 b 12 the ^i'dea [?] I I sup^pose the _\old i_dea# / 5 8 49 3580 1 1 b 11 of a ^certain {c\ode} of beh\aviour# - / 5 8 49 3590 1 1 b 11 what what ^\I would 'call# / 5 8 49 3600 1 1 b 11 ^being a g\entleman# . / 5 8 49 3610 1 1 b 11 [@:m] which ^even if 'people _weren`t rel\igious# ./ 5 8 49 3620 1 1 b 11 they would ^live !\up to# / 5 8 49 3630 2 1 b 22 ^what what ^wasn`t 'right *or* / 5 8 50 3640 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 8 50 3630 1 1(b 12 :h\onourable# / 5 8 50 3650 1 1 b 11 [?@] et^c\etera# - / 5 8 50 3660 1 2 b 11 [@:m] I ^think it 'still 'lingers :\on a 'little / 5 8 50 3660 1 1 b 11 'over *h/ere#* . / 5 8 50 3670 1 1 b 11 "^not not 'nearly so :m\uch# / 5 8 50 3680 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 50 3690 1 2(b 11 but . [@:m] - - I ^mean the !older 'kind of / 5 8 50 3690 1 1(b 11 _poli!t\ician# - / 5 8 50 3700 1 1 b 11 ^say Mac!m\illan# / 5 8 50 3710 1 1 b 11 as op^posed to _Wilson or :H\eath# - / 5 8 51 3720 1 1 b 12 you ^feel - I I ^don`t kn\ow# / 5 8 51 3730 1 1 b 11 per^haps I`m . !totally wr\ong# / 5 8 51 3740 1 1 b 12 but I ^feel 'he was - he ^had a 'certain :c\ode# / 5 8 51 3750 1 1 b 11 there were ^certain \areas# / 5 8 51 3760 1 1 b 11 where you ^feel he !w\ouldn`t# / 5 8 51 3770 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 5 8 51 3780 1 2 b 13 be^cause [i i i] well it ^wasn`t it ^wouldn`t have / 5 8 51 3780 1 1 b 13 'been . _being a !g\entleman# / 5 8 52 3790 1 1 b 11 *((^2 sylls a 'certain !th\ing#))* / 5 8 52 3800 1 1 a 11 *((I ^s\ee# / 5 8 52 3810 1 1 a 11 ^only trouble /is that#))* / 5 8 52 3820 1 1 a 11 I sup^p\ose# / 5 8 52 3830 1 1 a 11 you ^c\an 'say# / 5 8 52 3840 1 1 a 11 that it ^leads to a hor:rific bl\indness# / 5 8 52 3850 1 1 a 11 in that ^if one _looks at Macmillan`s sp\eech# - / 5 8 52 3860 1 2 a 11 ((in which he`s)) ^commenting _on . the 'Cuban / 5 8 52 3860 1 1 a 11 cr\isis# / 5 8 52 3870 2 1 a 21 and *they* / 5 8 53 3880 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 53 3870 1 1(a 11 ^say to h\im# . / 5 8 53 3890 1 2 a 11 ^what 'steps did you 'take for the 'country`s / 5 8 53 3890 1 1 a 11 def\ence# / 5 8 53 3900 1 1 a 11 he says ^\oh w/ell# - / 5 8 53 3910 1 1 a 11 we ^didn`t 'really 'have much 'time ((d\id we))# / 5 8 53 3920 1 1 a 11 it was ^only thirteen d/ays# / 5 8 53 3930 1 1 a 11 *in* ^which it was . 'blowing /up# . / 5 8 53 3940 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 54 3950 1 2(a 11 and [@:] - - - I I ^think the thing that - - - / 5 8 54 3950 1 1(a 11 :r\eally made {the ^tr\ip#}# . / 5 8 54 3960 1 1 a 11 ^less of a suc'cess than it :sh\ould have been# . / 5 8 54 3970 1 2 a 11 was ^simply the 'fact that this _man . _wanted to / 5 8 54 3970 1 1 a 11 get :h\ome# / 5 8 54 3980 1 1 a 11 he`d ^just had e_n\ough# / 5 8 54 3990 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 54 4000 1 2 a 11 ((I mean)) ^Thomas was . :very 'happy 'going / 5 8 54 4000 1 1 a 11 r\ound# / 5 8 54 4010 1 2 a 11 because des^pite all [dh] - - the n\asty sort of / 5 8 54 4010 1 1 a 11 'as_pects# / 5 8 55 4020 1 2 a 11 ((and)) he`d ^had - "!m\ore {of those ^unpleasant / 5 8 55 4020 1 1 a 11 \aspects#}# / 5 8 55 4030 2 1 a 21 when he *had* / 5 8 55 4040 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 55 4030 1 2(a 11 ^gone to [@] Cali_fornia and . {W\ashington} / 5 8 55 4030 1 1(a 11 bef\ore# / 5 8 55 4050 1 2 a 11 ((he`s)) . cos I mean ^that`s where he`d :actually / 5 8 55 4050 1 1 a 11 [@m] . 'been . acc/osted# . / 5 8 55 4060 1 1 a 11 and ^thr/eatened and# . / 5 8 55 4070 1 1 a 11 and ^s\o on# / 5 8 56 4080 1 1 b 11 ^r\/eally# / 5 8 56 4090 1 1 b 11 *((^[\m]#))* / 5 8 56 4100 1 1 a 11 *^oh 'yes* and he`d 'been in a [@m] 'bar br\/awl# / 5 8 56 4110 1 1 a 11 and ^things like th\is# . / 5 8 56 4120 1 1 a 20 I mean *( - - - laughs)* / 5 8 56 4130 1 1 b 20 *( - - - laughs)* / 5 8 56 4140 1 1 a 11 ^he was in a **c\inema#** / 5 8 56 4150 1 1 b 11 **((3 sylls)) ex**^p\erience# / 5 8 56 4160 1 1 a 11 yes [@] ^he was in a c\inema# / 5 8 56 4170 1 1 a 11 and . ^being Th\omas# / 5 8 57 4180 1 1 a 11 sort of ^rather t\/erse# / 5 8 57 4190 1 1 a 11 ^told 'some 'man 'to [@:m] be qu\/iet# / 5 8 57 4200 1 1 a 11 who was ^making a 'noise be:h\/ind him# / 5 8 57 4210 1 1 a 11 and the ^man sort of - - _pulled a !g=un# / 5 8 57 4220 1 1 a 20 and - - / 5 8 57 4230 1 1 b 11 ((^y\es#)) / 5 8 57 4240 1 1 b 11 was ^this in the 'deep 'South :t\oo# / 5 8 57 4250 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 5 8 57 4260 1 1 a 11 ^this was 'in in [@:] Los *:\Angeles#* / 5 8 57 4270 1 1 b 11 *^oh* . ((th\ere))# / 5 8 57 4280 1 1 a 11 so ^in a w\/ay# / 5 8 57 4290 1 1 a 11 ^Thomas was !\used to 'this# / 5 8 58 4300 1 1 a 11 but un^fortunately the 'other man . :w\/asn`t# . / 5 8 58 4310 1 2 a 11 and ^so he _found the whole _lot . _rather too / 5 8 58 4310 1 1 a 11 !m\uch for him# / 5 8 58 4320 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 58 4330 1 1 a 11 and so they ^came "b\/ack# . / 5 8 58 4340 1 1 a 11 as ^soon as the 'exhi'bition had :f\/inished# / 5 8 58 4350 1 1 a 11 and the ^c\/ongress had 'finished# . / 5 8 58 4360 1 1 a 11 and they ^didn`t _do any !s\ightseeing# / 5 8 59 4370 1 1 b 11 ^\oh# / 5 8 59 4380 1 1 b 11 which is *a ^sh\ame r/eally# / 5 8 59 4390 2 1 b 21 when you`re / 5 8 59 4400 1 1 a 11 *((which is a)) it was a ^gr\eat shame {^y\es#}#* ./ 5 8 59 4390 1 1(b 11 "^\/out 'there# / 5 8 59 4410 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 5 8 59 4420 1 1(a 11 cos they`ve ^got th\ings# / 5 8 59 4430 1 1 a 11 like the ^greatest \outcrop# / 5 8 59 4440 1 1 a 11 of ^granite in the w=orld# *.* / 5 8 59 4450 1 1 a 11 in a ^single !sl\ab or 'something# / 5 8 59 4460 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 8 60 4470 2 1 a 21 **( - laughs)** / 5 8 60 4480 1 1 b 20 **( - laughs)** / 5 8 60 4470 1 1(a 11 - oh and they ^also h\ad [@:]# - / 5 8 60 4490 1 1 a 11 I be^lieve an 'underground :t\own# . / 5 8 60 4500 2 1 a 21 *((1 syll be^cause))* / 5 8 60 4510 1 1 b 11 *^y\eah#* / 5 8 60 4500 1 2(a 11 [@:] . the _Northern 'forces . 'razed At'lanta to / 5 8 60 4500 1 1(a 11 the gr\ound# . / 5 8 60 4520 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 5 8 61 4530 1 1 a 11 ^but . there are sort of :odd _b=its# / 5 8 61 4540 1 1 a 11 which re^m\ained# . / 5 8 61 4550 1 2 a 11 and they`ve ^built the {r\oads} [a] on the !!t\op / 5 8 61 4550 1 1 a 11 of them# . / 5 8 61 4560 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 61 4570 1 1 a 11 ^and you can . !go under!n\eath the 'roads# / 5 8 61 4580 1 1 a 11 and . I`ve got ^p\ostcards ((at home))# / 5 8 61 4590 1 1 a 11 which ^Thomas !s\ent us {to the ^ch\ildren#}# / 5 8 61 4600 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - ^and you can _see [?] the found\ations of / 5 8 61 4600 1 1 a 11 the 'road# / 5 8 62 4610 1 1 a 11 [?] and ^under'neath them are these !sh\ops# / 5 8 62 4620 1 1 a 11 which are . tre^mendously :\interes*ting#* / 5 8 62 4630 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 62 4640 1 1 b 11 and ^still in \use {I pre^s\ume#}# . / 5 8 62 4650 1 1 a 11 **^w\ell# / 5 8 62 4660 1 1 a 21 ((as ^n\ot as))** / 5 8 62 4670 1 1 b 11 **((or "^n\ot# / 5 8 62 4680 1 1 b 11 or ^is it)) a 'kind of** [m] mus\eum {^y\es#}# / 5 8 62 4690 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 62 4700 1 1 a 11 they`re ^s\ouvenir . 'shops# / 5 8 62 4710 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 63 4720 1 2 a 11 but [@:] there was a ^lot he should have !s\een / 5 8 63 4720 1 1 a 11 and# . / 5 8 63 4730 1 1 b 11 well with ^thir'teen :d\ays 'out th/ere# . / 5 8 63 4740 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 63 4750 1 2 b 13 *((it))* ^one can . "^my . I was ^reading this / 5 8 63 4750 1 1 b 13 :m\/orning ((and))# . / 5 8 63 4760 1 1 b 11 I ^slipped \in# . / 5 8 63 4770 1 1 b 11 to ^see m\ummy# . / 5 8 63 4780 1 2 b 11 ^and [@] . she _brought a 'letter . from my / 5 8 63 4780 1 1 b 11 \aunt# . / 5 8 63 4790 1 1 b 11 who`s . ^gone out 'there with my _\uncle# . / 5 8 64 4800 1 1 b 11 on ^b\usiness# . / 5 8 64 4810 1 1 b 11 he`s be^gun . to :t\ake her# . / 5 8 64 4820 1 1 b 11 and [@m] ^which is :rather :n\ice# / 5 8 64 4830 1 1 b 11 that they ^go off to:g\ether# / 5 8 64 4840 1 2 b 13 and they ^they`ve . ^did a they ^stayed on a :bit / 5 8 64 4840 1 1 b 13 l\onger# / 5 8 64 4850 1 1 b 11 just to ^have a look r/ound# - / 5 8 64 4860 1 2 b 11 ^and [@:] they were !staying 'somewhere [a] / 5 8 64 4860 1 1 b 11 'out:s\ide New 'York# - / 5 8 64 4870 1 2 b 11 "^close to where they were 'having these _business / 5 8 64 4870 1 1 b 11 dis_c\ussions I supp=ose# / 5 8 64 4880 1 2 b 12 and [@] - ^she [sh] ^they were 'staying in a / 5 8 64 4880 1 1 b 12 ho:t\el# / 5 8 65 4890 1 2 b 11 but she was de^scribing the 'house of these / 5 8 65 4890 1 1 b 11 p\eople# / 5 8 65 4900 1 1 b 11 that ^they were . _doing _business w\ith# / 5 8 65 4910 1 1 b 12 and she ^said - I don`t ^kn\ow# / 5 8 65 4920 1 2 b 11 I ^all I re'member ((were)) :four b\athrooms and a / 5 8 65 4920 1 1 b 11 'swimming !!p=ool# / 5 8 65 4930 1 1 a 20 *( - - laughs)* / 5 8 65 4940 1 2 b 11 *. but* [@] . ^so that they !seem to be 'thoroughly/ 5 8 65 4940 1 1 b 11 enj\/oying it and# . / 5 8 66 4950 1 1 b 11 their ^children are just \old enough# / 5 8 66 4960 1 1 b 11 ^r\eally n/ow# / 5 8 66 4970 2 1 b 22 they`re ^all / 5 8 66 4980 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 5 8 66 4970 1 1(b 12 - ^well . !one of them`s in the :s\ixth form# / 5 8 66 4990 1 1 b 11 and the ^others are . 'all in their :t\eens# / 5 8 66 5000 1 1 b 11 ^so . they can !l\eave them . {at ^h\ome#}# / 5 8 66 5010 1 1 b 11 and [@] . "^m\ummy slipped 'over# / 5 8 66 5020 1 1 b 11 to ^see that 'they were all r\ight# / 5 8 66 5030 1 1 b 11 but ap^parently they were f\ine# / 5 8 67 5040 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 67 5050 1 2 b 13 and [@:m] - - ^they`re ^they`re ^they`re quite / 5 8 67 5050 1 1 b 13 \interesting _really# / 5 8 67 5060 1 1 b 11 as a . as a ^f\amily# / 5 8 67 5070 1 2 b 11 be^cause they`re !that much y\ounger {than ^mummy / 5 8 67 5070 1 1 b 11 and !d\addy#}# - / 5 8 67 5080 1 1 b 12 ^and they`ve - "^s\uddenly# / 5 8 67 5090 1 1 b 11 this - ^b\usiness {that ^they`ve been d\oing#}# / 5 8 67 5100 1 1 b 11 has has ^really - :ch\anged from 'being# . / 5 8 68 5110 1 1 b 11 ^r\elatively succ/essful# / 5 8 68 5120 1 1 b 11 to ^something . 'really b\ig# / 5 8 68 5130 1 1 b 11 and [@m] - ^so you kn/ow# / 5 8 68 5140 1 2 b 11 [i] it ^seems to have :worked a revo_lution in / 5 8 68 5140 1 1 b 11 their :l\ives# / 5 8 68 5150 1 1 b 11 ((sort of thing)) ^it`s quite f\unny# / 5 8 68 5160 1 1 b 11 al^though they`re _just the s\ame# - / 5 8 68 5170 1 2 b 11 ^but [@] they`re 'always [s] _sl\ipping off / 5 8 68 5170 1 1 b 11 a_broad# / 5 8 68 5180 1 1 b 11 to A^m\erica or s/omewhere# / 5 8 68 5190 1 1 b 11 to do ^b\/usiness and [@]# - / 5 8 69 5200 1 2 b 12 ^it ((well)) it`s it`s been ^really ":t\ough for a / 5 8 69 5200 1 1 b 12 wh/ile# / 5 8 69 5210 1 1 b 11 and then ^suddenly it`s got :off the gr\ound# / 5 8 69 5220 1 1 b 11 which is ^n\ice# - - / 5 8 69 5230 1 2 b 11 but [@] - - they`ve ^had some 'adverts on . / 5 8 69 5230 1 1 b 11 tele:v\ision# / 5 8 69 5240 1 1 b 11 but it`s "^S\outhern tele'vision# . / 5 8 69 5250 1 1 b 11 so I ^m\iss((ed)) them all# - - - / 5 8 69 5260 1 2 b 11 but they I ^wanted 'them to come 'over on 'Friday / 5 8 69 5260 1 1 b 11 :n\ight# / 5 8 69 5270 1 2 b 11 because . they were "^m\arvellous {when I was / 5 8 69 5270 1 1 b 11 m\oving#}# / 5 8 70 5280 1 1 b 11 ^they gave me my :{Good H\ousekeeping} C\ook Book# / 5 8 70 5290 1 1 b 20 *( - giggles)* / 5 8 70 5300 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 8 70 5310 1 2 b 13 and ^[mu:] 'had ^well 'some ^some'one from the / 5 8 70 5310 1 1 b 13 'firm was . _bringing a 'van 'up with some st\uff# / 5 8 70 5320 1 1 b 11 and ^so they 'got him to 'bring my d/esk up# / 5 8 70 5330 1 1 b 11 and all ^sorts of th=ings# / 5 8 70 5340 1 2 b 12 and - [@:m] ^I I ^said . 'well . you :m\ust 'come / 5 8 70 5340 1 1 b 12 and 'have a 'meal# - / 5 8 71 5350 1 2 b 11 and I ^thought I`d com'bine it with m\ummy {and / 5 8 71 5350 1 1 b 11 ^d\addy#}# / 5 8 71 5360 1 1 b 11 and and ^this fr\iend of _mine# / 5 8 71 5370 1 1 b 11 who ^works at the [@m] . OD:\A# - / 5 8 71 5380 1 1 b 11 ^and is very \interesting# / 5 8 71 5390 1 1 b 11 [@m] - ^and _well "{sh\e`s} been in :P\aris# / 5 8 71 5400 1 1 b 11 but she`s ^just come b\ack# / 5 8 71 5410 1 1 b 11 and ^so she`s 'going to [@] . come \over# / 5 8 71 5420 1 2 b 11 and I ^knew she`d 'like to see _mummy and _daddy / 5 8 71 5420 1 1 b 11 a"g/ain# / 5 8 71 5430 1 1 b 11 so I ^thought I`d com'bine the !whole th\ing# / 5 8 72 5440 1 1 b 11 and I ^had it !all pl\/anned# / 5 8 72 5450 1 1 b 11 and ^did some c\ooking y/esterday# / 5 8 72 5460 1 1 b 11 and ^then it turned \out# / 5 8 72 5470 1 1 b 11 ^mummy and _daddy !couldn`t !m\ake it# / 5 8 72 5480 1 1 a 11 ^\oh# / 5 8 72 5490 1 1 a 11 ((^th\/at`s a bore#)) / 5 8 72 5500 1 1 b 11 ^s=o# / 5 8 72 5510 1 1 b 11 I`m ^hoping they`ll 'come :n\ext 'week# / 5 8 72 5520 1 1 b 11 but [@] - they`re ^so "b\/usy at the 'moment# / 5 8 72 5530 1 2 b 12 that . I ^think 'mummy`s [?@] she ^w\/orries me / 5 8 72 5530 1 1 b 12 'actually# / 5 8 73 5540 1 1 b 11 [t] ^st\ill# / 5 8 73 5550 1 1 b 11 because ^every 'time I 'go \in n/ow# / 5 8 73 5560 1 1 b 12 ^not "^not "l\iving with her# / 5 8 73 5570 1 1 b 11 but "^s\eeing her# - / 5 8 73 5580 1 1 b 11 she ^looks so !t\ired# / 5 8 73 5590 1 1 b 11 and ^w\orn# / 5 8 73 5600 1 1 b 20 that - *((syll))* / 5 8 73 5610 1 1 a 11 ^yes *one* !n\otices# / 5 8 73 5620 1 1 a 11 when you ^don`t s\ee them {for a ^wh\ile#}# / 5 8 73 5630 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 73 5640 1 1 b 11 I - I ^felt !v\ery 'worried 'last n/ight# / 5 8 74 5650 1 1 b 11 because ^when she rang \up# / 5 8 74 5660 1 2 b 12 she was ^so \obvious she ^said to me {this / 5 8 74 5660 1 1 b 12 ^m\orning#}# / 5 8 74 5670 1 1 b 11 that she ^she felt 'awful "\afterwards# / 5 8 74 5680 1 2 b 11 be^cause she _said she _must have been _such a / 5 8 74 5680 1 1 b 11 "!m\isery# / 5 8 74 5690 1 1 b 11 but - she ^sounded s/o t\ired# . / 5 8 74 5700 1 3 b 11 and [@m] - . she ^just said _well she just . / 5 8 74 5700 1 2 b 11 "!didn`t 'think she could 'make it on 'Friday / 5 8 74 5700 1 1 b 11 n/ight# / 5 8 74 5710 1 1 b 11 or ^or 'over the _week!\end# - / 5 8 75 5720 1 2 b 11 and [@m] - - I im^mediately 'felt well :I should go/ 5 8 75 5720 1 1 b 11 :h\ome# / 5 8 75 5730 1 1 b 11 and and ^help !\out a bit# / 5 8 75 5740 1 1 b 11 but I I`m sort of ^d\oing things# / 5 8 75 5750 1 1 b 11 ^all _over the week!\end# / 5 8 75 5760 1 1 b 11 ^y\/ou know# / 5 8 75 5770 1 1 b 11 I`ve I`ve ^promised to go 'out to l/unch# / 5 8 75 5780 1 2 b 11 and I - [@m t@ t] to ^actually 'go 'home and 'be of/ 5 8 75 5780 1 1 b 11 'any \use# / 5 8 75 5790 1 2 b 11 you`ve ^really 'got to go _home for a _day or a / 5 8 75 5790 1 1 b 11 !c\ouple of 'days r/eally# / 5 8 76 5800 1 1 b 11 *((so I ^can`t really fit it \in#))* / 5 8 76 5810 1 1 a 11 *yes to ^make \any 'sort of* comm/itment# / 5 8 76 5820 1 1 a 11 you`ve ^got to _make a !fairly **!b\ig 'one#** / 5 8 76 5830 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** . / 5 8 76 5840 1 2 b 11 I ^think I`ll 'try and 'slip 'home per'haps 'some / 5 8 76 5840 1 1 b 11 'time :n\ext 'week# . / 5 8 76 5850 1 1 b 11 ^d\uring the 'week# / 5 8 76 5860 1 1 b 11 and I`d ^have a 'day at h\ome and# . / 5 8 76 5870 1 1 b 11 ^get 'on and 'do a bit of \ironing# / 5 8 76 5880 1 1 b 11 or *^w\ashing* or _something# / 5 8 77 5890 1 1 a 11 *^y=es#* / 5 8 77 5900 1 1(b 11 and - and [@:] . clear ^\up# / 5 8 77 5910 1 1 b 11 but of ^course that`s _only a 'temporary m\easure# / 5 8 77 5920 1 1 b 11 "^trouble w/ith# / 5 8 77 5930 1 1 b 11 ^=is# / 5 8 77 5940 1 1 b 11 ^mummy`s been 'having these !dreadful :m\igraines# / 5 8 77 5950 1 1 b 12 and ^that`s what`s - [@:m] I ^th/ink# / 5 8 77 5960 1 1 b 11 [hu] ^held her \up# / 5 8 77 5970 1 2 b 11 because what you ^know what it`s 'like when you / 5 8 77 5970 1 1 b 11 "g\et one# / 5 8 77 5980 1 1 b 11 you`re "^absolutely 'knocked :\out# / 5 8 78 5990 1 3 b 12 and she`s ^had a:bout a - she ^says she 'reckons / 5 8 78 5990 1 2 b 12 it`s _taken at _least a !week . of !t\ime / 5 8 78 5990 1 1 b 12 {^\out#}# . / 5 8 78 6000 1 1 b 11 ^just in the 'past about !three w\eeks# / 5 8 78 6010 2 2 b 21 and of ^course that 'means that she`s _all be:hind / 5 8 78 6010 2 1 b 21 on / 5 8 78 6020 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 8 78 6010 1 1(b 11 :ever*y* :\aspect# - - / 5 8 78 6030 1 2 b 12 ^and [@] so the ^doctor`s 'given her 'some :new / 5 8 78 6030 1 1 b 12 th/ing# / 5 8 78 6040 1 1 b 11 called ^D\ixeret# - / 5 8 79 6050 1 1 b 11 [@:m] which is a ^brand-'new dr\ug# . / 5 8 79 6060 1 2 b 12 [@:m] ^they . he ^hasn`t 'tried it on 'anyone 'else/ 5 8 79 6060 1 1 b 12 be:f\ore# / 5 8 79 6070 2 1 b 21 so *( - sighs)* / 5 8 79 6080 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 8 79 6070 1 1(b 11 he`s ex^p\erimenting# / 5 8 79 6090 1 1 b 11 and [@] she ^has to 'take 'two of them a d\ay# - / 5 8 79 6100 1 2 b 12 ((and)) she ^said they . they ^send her 'off to / 5 8 79 6100 1 1 b 12 :sl\eep# / 5 8 79 6110 1 1 b 11 which ^y\ou kn/ow is [@]# - / 5 8 80 6120 1 1 a 11 ((1 syll ^that`s a sh\ame#)) / 5 8 80 6130 1 1 b 11 ^well it`s :not i:d\eal# . / 5 8 80 6140 1 1 b 11 when ^y\ou 'know# / 5 8 80 6150 1 1 b 11 ^when she`s w\orking# *.* / 5 8 80 6160 1 1 b 11 but I I im"^\agine# / 5 8 80 6170 2 1 b 21 it it`s to / 5 8 80 6180 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 8 80 6170 1 1(b 11 re^lieve !t\ension# - . / 5 8 80 6190 1 1 b 11 be^cause [@] - she`d !had . s\everal# . / 5 8 80 6200 1 1 b 11 ^and !((what was it)) about a !f\ortnight a'go# / 5 8 80 6210 1 2 b 11 he ^sent her to the :h\ospital {to have an / 5 8 80 6210 1 1 b 11 ^\X-ray#}# - / 5 8 81 6220 1 1 b 11 ^just to 'see if there :w\as 'anything 'wrong# / 5 8 81 6230 1 1 b 11 ^with her :h\/ead# - / 5 8 81 6240 1 2 b 12 ^and [@:m] course she ^she 'made a 'great j\/oke of/ 5 8 81 6240 1 1 b 12 it# / 5 8 81 6250 2 1 b 21 ((1 syll)) ^having her h\ead ex'amined / 5 8 81 6260 1 1 a 20 *( - - laughs)* / 5 8 81 6250 1 1(b 11 *etc/etera#* / 5 8 81 6270 1 2 b 12 ( - sighs) [@:] ( - yawns) but I ^think [s] ^think / 5 8 81 6270 1 1 b 12 she was :w\orried# / 5 8 81 6280 1 2 b 15 and she was ^very rel\ieved when . ^the . ^they . / 5 8 81 6280 1 1 b 15 ^the . ^all the . \X-rays 'showed# / 5 8 82 6290 1 1 b 11 ^absolutely :n\egative# / 5 8 82 6300 1 1 b 11 there was ^nothing :wr\ong# . / 5 8 82 6310 1 1 b 11 so it ^must 'just be t/\ension I sup'pose# . / 5 8 82 6320 1 2 a 11 yes ^we`ve just 'had a ( . coughs) \awful 'six / 5 8 82 6320 1 1 a 11 'weeks# / 5 8 82 6330 1 1 a 11 with ^m\y 'grandmother# / 5 8 82 6340 1 1 a 11 who . ((^you rem/ember# / 5 8 82 6350 1 1 a 11 she had)) *^cancer of the br\east#* / 5 8 83 6360 1 1 b 11 *^oh y\es# / 5 8 83 6370 1 1 b 11 is ^she b\/etter#* . / 5 8 83 6380 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 83 6390 1 2 a 11 well she ^ended up :g\etting 'cancer of the / 5 8 83 6390 1 1 a 11 br/east# / 5 8 83 6400 1 1 a 11 and ^having to 'have one :\off# / 5 8 83 6410 1 2 a 11 but [@:m] - "^but oh the !w\orst thing ab/out it / 5 8 83 6410 1 1 a 11 is# - - / 5 8 83 6420 1 1 a 11 is the dis^covery of her con'ditions of :l\iving# ./ 5 8 83 6430 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - it`s ^most extra!\/ordinary in _this# - - / 5 8 83 6440 1 2 a 11 ^when . my 'parents 'moved 'out of L\ondon 'some / 5 8 83 6440 1 1 a 11 [@m]# - / 5 8 84 6450 1 1 a 11 ^twenty-'two twenty-'three 'years ag\o# . / 5 8 84 6460 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - / 5 8 84 6470 1 1 a 11 my ^mother`s m\ove was# - / 5 8 84 6480 1 1 a 11 ^both she h\oped# - / 5 8 84 6490 1 1 a 11 sort of ^s\ocial im_provement# / 5 8 84 6500 1 1 a 11 as ^well as an . a :h\ome *im'provement#* / 5 8 84 6510 1 1 b 20 *( - gasps)* / 5 8 85 6520 1 2(a 12 ^and [@:m] and she ^made no :b\ones about th/at / 5 8 85 6520 1 1(a 12 and# - / 5 8 85 6530 1 1 a 11 she`s ^always re'garded my . my :f\ather`s 'mother#/ 5 8 85 6540 1 1 a 11 as ^being . 'somewhat d\/irty and# - / 5 8 85 6550 1 1 a 11 and ^slightly ill\iterate# / 5 8 85 6560 1 2 a 11 be^cause she 'doesn`t 'have the 'same sp/eech / 5 8 85 6560 1 1 a 11 'patterns you _know# / 5 8 85 6570 1 1 a 11 and ^all these st/upid things# / 5 8 85 6580 1 1 a 11 and [@:m] - so she ^hasn`t !been to !s\ee her# / 5 8 85 6590 1 1 a 11 in ^h=er h/ouse# / 5 8 85 6600 1 1 a 11 for ^twenty-'three !y\ears# / 5 8 86 6610 1 1 a 11 ^twenty-'three *y/ears#* / 5 8 86 6620 1 1 a 11 *^y=es#* / 5 8 86 6630 1 1 a 11 she`s ^had 'her . to !\our house# / 5 8 86 6640 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 86 6650 1 1 a 11 ^s=ay# / 5 8 86 6660 1 1 a 11 ^oh very !r\egularly# / 5 8 86 6670 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - - she`s ^probably _stayed on =average# - / 5 8 86 6680 1 1 a 11 I sup^pose a !week in _every !s\ix or 'so# / 5 8 86 6690 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 86 6700 1 1 a 11 and it`s ^worked very !w\ell# / 5 8 86 6710 1 1 a 11 but ^my m/other# / 5 8 87 6720 1 1 a 11 has ^never 'gone to !her !h\ouse you 'see# . / 5 8 87 6730 1 2 a 11 ^knowing that it was 'dirty and _filthy and !s\o / 5 8 87 6730 1 1 a 11 on# - / 5 8 87 6740 1 1 a 11 ^=and# - / 5 8 87 6750 1 1 a 11 ^\anyway# / 5 8 87 6760 1 2 a 11 she ^felt that 'after my 'grandmother had been in / 5 8 87 6760 1 1 a 11 :hospital for a :m\/onth# / 5 8 87 6770 1 2 a 11 she ^ought to go !down and !have a !l\ook at the / 5 8 87 6770 1 1 a 11 'place# / 5 8 87 6780 1 1 a 11 to ^see if it was !fit for her _coming !b\ack# / 5 8 87 6790 1 1 a 11 and of course she ^g/oes down there# / 5 8 87 6800 1 1 a 11 and ^f/inds it`s a h\ovel# / 5 8 88 6810 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 88 6820 1 1 b 20 *((1 syll))* / 5 8 88 6830 1 2 a 11 *and the* ^place is - is {r\eally fit} to _be / 5 8 88 6830 1 1 a 11 con!!d\emned# / 5 8 88 6840 1 1 b 11 ^[=m]# / 5 8 88 6850 1 1 a 11 ^and [@:] - - my !mother`s sort of "!t\erribly# - / 5 8 88 6860 1 1 a 11 ag^gr\/ieved a'bout it# / 5 8 88 6870 1 2 a 11 be^cause she 'feels that _people will be _going / 5 8 88 6870 1 1 a 11 round _saying _oh l\ook# / 5 8 89 6880 1 2 a 11 the . ^mother of an [ik] of a - 'very well 'paid / 5 8 89 6880 1 1 a 11 ex'ecutive is _living in a :h\ovel# / 5 8 89 6890 1 1 a 12 ^which *[i] ^which* is :tr\/ue# . / 5 8 89 6900 2 1 a 21 [@:m] - ^and / 5 8 89 6910 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 89 6900 1 2(a 11 she`s thinking of 'what will 'people :s\ay about / 5 8 89 6900 1 1(a 11 /us# - - / 5 8 89 6920 1 2 a 12 but of ^course . ((you know it)) . it it ^seems [@]/ 5 8 89 6920 1 1 a 12 :only !\obvious# / 5 8 89 6930 2 1 a 21 that *^if you* 'don`t go 'near a 'house for / 5 8 90 6940 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 90 6930 1 1(a 11 'twenty-'three 'years be'cause it`s d\irty# . / 5 8 90 6950 1 2 a 11 and ^at the 'same _time you _don`t do _anything / 5 8 90 6950 1 1 a 11 a!b\out the 'dirt {and *the ^f\ilth#}#* / 5 8 90 6960 1 1 a 11 and . ^deco'ration and !s\/o on# / 5 8 90 6970 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 90 6980 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 5 8 90 6990 1 1(a 11 **. that it`s** ^going to get !!w\orse# . / 5 8 91 7000 1 1 a 11 ^and of 'course my !f\ather`s been 'going 'there# ./ 5 8 91 7010 1 1 a 11 about ^once a 'week to :s\ee her for an h/our# . / 5 8 91 7020 1 1 a 11 and has been . ^offering :h\elp# / 5 8 91 7030 2 1 a 21 and of *^course _when* / 5 8 91 7040 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 91 7030 1 1(a 11 the 'help is ref\used# / 5 8 91 7050 1 2 a 11 because my . ^{gr\andmother 'feels} it`s _too much / 5 8 91 7050 1 1 a 11 !tr\/ouble for my 'father# - - / 5 8 91 7060 1 1 a 11 he`s been ^letting it g/\o# / 5 8 92 7070 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 92 7080 1 1 b 11 cos a "^man 'doesn`t re'act /in the 'same *w\ay#* / 5 8 92 7090 1 1 a 11 *well* ^n\o# . / 5 8 92 7100 1 2 a 11 but [@m] the ^place is 'actually :d\angerous _in / 5 8 92 7100 1 1 a 11 that# - / 5 8 92 7110 1 1 a 11 ^all [dhi:] 'house`s e'lectrical equ\ipment`s# / 5 8 92 7120 1 2 a 11 just ^running 'off an e_lectric l\ight {and ^th\is / 5 8 92 7120 1 1 a 11 sort of 'thing#}# / 5 8 93 7130 1 1 b 11 oh ^g\osh# / 5 8 93 7140 1 1 b 11 *( - sighs) ^y\es#* / 5 8 93 7150 1 1 a 11 *[@:m] - .* on and the ^{s\ink`s} 'off the w\all# / 5 8 93 7160 1 1 a 11 and ^[dhi:?] !c\ooker {^doesn`t w\ork#}# / 5 8 93 7170 2 1 a 21 *. I mean* the / 5 8 93 7180 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 93 7170 1 2(a 11 ^woman has 'obviously 'been negl\ecting herself / 5 8 93 7170 1 1(a 11 {very ^b\adly#}# - . / 5 8 93 7190 1 2 b 12 well I ^think s\ometimes . you see the ^point /is / 5 8 93 7190 1 1 b 12 that# . / 5 8 94 7200 1 1 b 11 she ^might 'well not !w\ant to 'move# . / 5 8 94 7210 1 1 b 11 a^way from fr\iends# / 5 8 94 7220 1 1 b 11 and from . the ^house she kn\ows# - / 5 8 94 7230 1 1 b 11 [i] ^y\/ou know# / 5 8 94 7240 1 1 b 11 you ^could per'haps im:prove the h\/ouse but# / 5 8 94 7250 1 1 a 11 *((^[\/m] 'well#))* / 5 8 94 7260 1 1(b 11 *to ^say* 'trans:pl\ant her# / 5 8 94 7270 1 1 b 11 to an old ^p\/eople`s 'home# / 5 8 94 7280 1 1 b 12 ^or 'to - ^even to _live with your !m\other# . / 5 8 94 7290 1 1 b 20 [@:] / 5 8 95 7300 1 1 a 11 ^well y\es# / 5 8 95 7310 2 1 a 21 she . *^clearly couldn`t :live with my / 5 8 95 7320 1 1 b 12 *((^might _make her _much [w@:])) . ^y\es#* / 5 8 95 7310 1 1(a 11 !m\other# / 5 8 95 7330 1 2 a 11 be^cause* [@:m] - - it would _drive my 'mother / 5 8 95 7330 1 1 a 11 !m\ad# / 5 8 95 7340 2 2 a 22 **and [i] ^it would ( - laughs)** I`m ^((sure it)) / 5 8 95 7340 2 1 a 22 do *( - laughs)* / 5 8 95 7350 1 1 b 11 **( - laughs) ^y\es#** / 5 8 95 7360 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 95 7340 1 1(a 12 the :same thing to my !gr\andmother# - / 5 8 95 7370 1 1 a 11 but ^on the 'other h/and# - - / 5 8 95 7380 1 1 a 11 ^when 'somebody gets . suf:ficiently !fr\ail# / 5 8 96 7390 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 8 96 7400 1 1(a 11 - and suf^ficiently neg!l\ectful of her_self# / 5 8 96 7410 1 1 a 11 [m] - as my ^gr\andmother`s 'now bec/ome# - / 5 8 96 7420 1 1 a 11 ^think something`s !g\ot to be 'done# / 5 8 96 7430 1 1 a 11 at the ^m\oment# / 5 8 96 7440 1 2 a 11 they`re ^decorating the 'house and they`re 'going / 5 8 96 7440 1 1 a 11 to \alter# *-* / 5 8 97 7450 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 97 7460 1 1(a 11 ^alter odd p\arts of it# / 5 8 97 7470 1 1 a 11 like ^throw out the [b] {h\eaviest} f\urniture# - / 5 8 97 7480 1 1 a 11 and ^get in some new st\uff# / 5 8 97 7490 1 1 a 11 and . ^get her a new !c\ooker {and ^s\o on#}# - - -/ 5 8 97 7500 1 2 a 11 ^but . !while she`s been in :hospital for the / 5 8 97 7500 1 1 a 11 m/onth# / 5 8 97 7510 1 1 a 11 ^she`s looked absolutely !!m\/arvellous you see# / 5 8 97 7520 1 1 a 11 cos she`s been ^getting a square !m/\eal# . / 5 8 98 7530 1 1 b 11 ^ah well !that`s the :th\/ing# / 5 8 98 7540 1 2 a 11 ^yes and - it !seems to :me it is !pr\obably / 5 8 98 7540 1 1 a 11 'worth# . / 5 8 98 7550 1 2 a 11 ^looking 'round in the _local !\area of '[ha:] / 5 8 98 7550 1 1 a 11 *_High*bury# - / 5 8 98 7560 2 1 a 21 for ^some 'sort / 5 8 98 7570 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 98 7560 1 1(a 11 of pro!t\ected 'home# . / 5 8 98 7580 1 2 a 13 you know you can ^get 'these [@m] . well they`re / 5 8 98 7580 1 1 a 13 ^not they`re ^not instit\utions# / 5 8 99 7590 1 2 a 11 but you can ^get col_lections of 'small 'bedsit / 5 8 99 7590 1 1 a 11 fl\ats {and *^s\o on#}# . / 5 8 99 7600 1 1 b 11 *^well ex!\actly# / 5 8 99 7610 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 5 8 99 7620 1 1(a 11 in ^which* you 'get a 'central m\eal# / 5 8 99 7630 1 1 a 11 but you **^also** look 'after yours\elf# / 5 8 99 7640 2 1 a 21 *. which* / 5 8 99 7650 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 5 8 99 7660 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 99 7640 1 1(a 11 would ^be i!d\eal for her# / 5 8 100 7670 1 1 b 11 I ^know a :fr\iend of 'ours# - / 5 8 100 7680 1 1 b 11 [@:m] . "^her m\other# - / 5 8 100 7690 1 1 b 11 was in ^that !s\ort of situ/ation# / 5 8 100 7700 1 1 b 11 she "^had been :l\/iving with 'them# / 5 8 100 7710 1 1 b 11 but it ^wasn`t 'working \out# - / 5 8 100 7720 1 1 b 11 and ^she de'cided she`d :rather 'be indep\endent# / 5 8 100 7730 1 2 b 13 and ^they 'got her 'into - [@:] she ^had a [@:] it / 5 8 100 7730 1 1 b 13 was [@] ^like a 'small b\ungalow I supp/ose# / 5 8 100 7740 1 1 b 11 [@:m] . ^but there were !always 'people th/ere# / 5 8 100 7750 1 1 b 11 and there was ^some 'kind of 'telephone s/ervice# / 5 8 100 7760 1 1 b 11 or . ^some 'kind of a!l\arm 'ser*vice#* / 5 8 101 7770 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* . / 5 8 101 7780 1 1(b 11 [@:m] but in ^f\act# . / 5 8 101 7790 1 1 b 11 they ^reckoned actually it !k\illed her# / 5 8 101 7800 1 2 b 12 be^cause it ^there was !such a 'good :{s\ocial} / 5 8 101 7800 1 1 b 12 l\ife 'there# / 5 8 101 7810 1 1 b 11 and she *^so en:j\oyed it# - / 5 8 101 7820 1 1 b 11 that ^she [ae]* !really ex:h\austed her'self# / 5 8 101 7830 1 1 a 11 *( - - - laughs)* **^y\es#** / 5 8 101 7840 1 1(b 11 **and** she ^d\ied# / 5 8 101 7850 1 1 b 11 ^after a_bout !six !m\onths# - / 5 8 102 7860 1 2 b 11 [@:m] . and . I ^think she had a !h\eart attack or / 5 8 102 7860 1 1 b 11 s/omething# / 5 8 102 7870 1 1 b 11 ^very !s\uddenly# *.* / 5 8 102 7880 2 1 b 21 but ^everybody :said well / 5 8 102 7890 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 8 102 7880 1 2(b 11 she`d 'obviously been 'living it !\up **too / 5 8 102 7880 1 1(b 11 'much#** / 5 8 102 7900 1 1 a 11 **^y=es#** / 5 8 102 7910 2 1 a 21 well it`s ^obviously a :nice *way* / 5 8 102 7920 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 103 7910 1 1(a 11 to g/\o {^\isn`t it#}# / 5 8 103 7930 1 1 a 11 **in a ^s/ense#** / 5 8 103 7940 1 1 b 11 **"^w\ell I 'think#** / 5 8 103 7950 2 1 b 25 I ^mean !much 'nicer than [@] / 5 8 103 7960 1 1 a 11 *^dragging your :l\ife out#* / 5 8 103 7950 1 2(b 15 *- [@] in [@]* ^but you 'see I ^mean ^it the ^s\ame/ 5 8 103 7950 1 1(b 15 'problem# / 5 8 103 7970 1 1 b 11 ^happened with 'my :f\ather# - / 5 8 103 7980 1 1 b 11 ^h\is 'mother# - / 5 8 103 7990 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^she . was !{t\erribly} 'indep\endent# / 5 8 103 8000 1 1 b 11 and [@m] in ^fact the 'whole f\amily# / 5 8 103 8010 1 1 b 11 I can ^see it in 'my f\ather# / 5 8 104 8020 1 1 b 12 he`s ^just they`re "^just the :s\ame# / 5 8 104 8030 1 2 b 11 but she she was ^one of these _very . / 5 8 104 8030 1 1 b 11 'domi_n\eering 'women# / 5 8 104 8040 1 1 b 11 I ^think she !m\ust have been# / 5 8 104 8050 1 1 b 11 she`s ^left her m\ark {on the ^f\amily#}# / 5 8 104 8060 2 1 b 21 *- to an in^{cr\edible}* / 5 8 104 8070 1 1 a 20 *((3 sylls)) ( - laughs)* / 5 8 104 8060 1 1(b 11 ex:t\ent# / 5 8 104 8080 1 1 b 11 I ^mean [@m] 'it`s sur!pr\ising# / 5 8 104 8090 1 1 b 11 ^how the !three s\ons# / 5 8 104 8100 1 1 b 11 re^s\emble each 'other# - / 5 8 105 8110 1 1 b 11 in their ^expect\ations# / 5 8 105 8120 1 1 b 11 and ^what they con'sider is r\ight# / 5 8 105 8130 1 1 b 11 et^cetera etc/etera# / 5 8 105 8140 1 1 b 11 and it`s "^\obviously# / 5 8 105 8150 1 1 b 11 it`s ^come from !h\er# . / 5 8 105 8160 1 1 b 11 ^y\/ou 'know# / 5 8 105 8170 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 8 105 8180 1 1 b 11 "^her id\eas# / 5 8 105 8190 1 1 b 11 well ^I can re'member 'things she :said to m\e# / 5 8 105 8200 1 1 b 11 and in in a ^m\odified w/ay# / 5 8 105 8210 1 2 b 11 al^though I`m not 'saying that they`re 'not / 5 8 105 8210 1 1 b 11 'indep\endent _of her# - / 5 8 106 8220 1 1 b 11 you can ^see it 'coming _out _in _in in :th\em# . / 5 8 106 8230 1 1 b 11 but ^she . was !rigidly 'indep\/endent# / 5 8 106 8240 1 1 b 11 and . [@:m] - ^she had plenty of m/oney# . / 5 8 106 8250 1 1 b 11 ^m\ummy# / 5 8 106 8260 1 1 b 11 and ^d\addy# . / 5 8 106 8270 1 1 b 11 or at ^least m\/ummy# . / 5 8 106 8280 1 1 b 11 was ^getting !w\/orried at the 'end# / 5 8 106 8290 1 2 b 11 that per^haps she was den!!\/ying her'self / 5 8 106 8290 1 1 b 11 'things# - / 5 8 106 8300 1 1 b 11 be^cause 'money was 'getting !t\ight# / 5 8 106 8310 1 1 b 11 but of course ^when it . came \out# / 5 8 107 8320 1 1 b 11 you ^kn\ow# / 5 8 107 8330 1 1 b 12 ^when ^when the "w\/ill came 'out# . / 5 8 107 8340 1 1 b 11 ^she you 'know had !plenty of m\/oney# - / 5 8 107 8350 1 1 b 11 ^but [@:] _she was _just not !\/ea'ting# / 5 8 107 8360 1 1 b 11 and - ^not [@:] re:n\ewing 'anything# - / 5 8 107 8370 1 1 b 11 ^and she got !terribly :th\/in# / 5 8 107 8380 1 1 b 11 and ^th\en of _course# / 5 8 107 8390 1 2 b 12 well ((then)) ^then she caught [@m] - I ^don`t know/ 5 8 107 8390 1 1 b 12 if it was "pl\/eurisy or 'something# - / 5 8 107 8400 1 1 b 11 but I im^\/agine# / 5 8 108 8410 1 2 b 11 ^that was be!cause she _wasn`t :{h\eating} the / 5 8 108 8410 1 1 b 11 :h\ouse 'properly# / 5 8 108 8420 1 1 b 13 [@:m] - ^oh it ^it was I mean the ^h\ouse# . / 5 8 108 8430 1 1 b 11 we ^used to go 'over :\/often e'nough# / 5 8 108 8440 1 1 b 11 to . I mean it ^wasn`t in 'any :st\ate# / 5 8 108 8450 1 2 b 11 it would be ^spotlessly :cl\ean et'cetera / 5 8 108 8450 1 1 b 11 etc/etera# - / 5 8 108 8460 1 1 b 11 but [@:] ^course it was !all 'dark v\arnish# / 5 8 108 8470 1 1 b 11 and ^\ugh# / 5 8 108 8480 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* . / 5 8 108 8490 1 1 b 11 "^gh\astly 'place it# / 5 8 108 8500 2 1 b 21 ^since since 'then / 5 8 109 8510 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* **( - laughs)** / 5 8 109 8500 1 1(b 11 it`s been :painted wh\ite# / 5 8 109 8520 1 1 b 11 it`s ^quite d\ifferent# / 5 8 109 8530 1 1 b 11 **but [@]** [@:m] it was ^dark v\arnish# / 5 8 109 8540 1 1 b 12 and . and ^lots of - ^she was an \Irishwoman# / 5 8 109 8550 1 1 b 11 and ^lots of !old p\ictures# / 5 8 109 8560 1 2 b 11 and ^also her :husband was in South :\Africa at the/ 5 8 109 8560 1 1 b 11 be'ginning of the c/entury# . / 5 8 109 8570 1 1 b 11 and ^m\arvellous {^old ph\otographs#}# / 5 8 109 8580 1 1 b 11 of of ^men _out_side _grass _h/uts# / 5 8 110 8590 1 1 b 11 in [b] on ^b/icycles# / 5 8 110 8600 1 1 b 11 and *-* ^things like th\at# / 5 8 110 8610 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 8 110 8620 1 1(b 11 but ^all in 'dark fr\ames# / 5 8 110 8630 1 2 b 13 and . ^hundreds of 'these [@:m] well ^sort of well / 5 8 110 8630 1 1 b 13 ^\I don`t 'know what they w/ere# / 5 8 110 8640 1 1 b 11 ^china b\irds and# . / 5 8 110 8650 1 1 b 11 "^v\ases# / 5 8 110 8660 1 1 b 11 with with ^g\/irls 'on# / 5 8 110 8670 1 1 b 11 and ^f\aces# / 5 8 111 8680 1 1 b 11 which you ^see in an:t\ique 'shops n/ow# / 5 8 111 8690 2 1 b 21 but / 5 8 111 8700 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 8 111 8690 1 2(b 11 *.* ^she had 'one of these _great . m\antel / 5 8 111 8690 1 1(b 11 'things# / 5 8 111 8710 1 1 b 11 a^bove the f\ireplace# / 5 8 111 8720 1 1 b 12 ^with with ^h\/undreds of 'these 'things# / 5 8 111 8730 1 1 b 11 ^{\oh} it was !!f\ascinating# / 5 8 111 8740 1 1 b 11 and ((a)) ^great 'horsehair :s\ofa# / 5 8 111 8750 1 1 b 11 and ^th\at 'kind of 'thing# / 5 8 111 8760 1 1 b 11 I used to ^l\ove it# - / 5 8 111 8770 1 1 b 11 but [@m] ^what`s 'making :m\/ummy so 'tired# / 5 8 111 8780 1 1 b 11 at the ^m\/oment 'is that# / 5 8 112 8790 1 1 b 11 [@] we`re ^just 'getting my !gr\andfather`s _fixed#/ 5 8 112 8800 1 1 b 12 be^cause - he`s been 'living [@m] . ^{h\e} a:g\ain#/ 5 8 112 8810 1 1 b 11 I mean ^he`s been a w\idower for# - / 5 8 112 8820 1 1 b 11 sup^pose about . _ten !y\ears n/ow# - / 5 8 112 8830 1 2 b 12 cos our ^grandmother - ^I think she 'must have / 5 8 112 8830 1 1 b 12 'been a'bout 'five years \older than 'him# - / 5 8 112 8840 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^but . !he`s in his :s\/eventies 'now# . / 5 8 113 8850 1 1 b 11 but ^very 'very \active# / 5 8 113 8860 1 2 b 13 and ^very . I mean he ^doesn`t he ^looks a'bout / 5 8 113 8860 1 1 b 13 s\ixty# . / 5 8 113 8870 1 2 b 11 [@:m] ex^cept 'now he`s :suddenly 'got :this [@:m] / 5 8 113 8870 1 1 b 11 . 'ar:thr\itis# / 5 8 113 8880 1 1 b 12 of the ^in ^in his h\ip# . / 5 8 113 8890 1 1 b 11 and he ^has to 'walk with a st\ick# / 5 8 113 8900 1 1 b 11 and he ^can`t m\ove very 'far# / 5 8 113 8910 1 1 b 11 which of ^course 'drives him :m\ad# . / 5 8 113 8920 1 1 b 11 and [@] - ^\anyway# / 5 8 114 8930 1 1 b 11 ^he [@] - _has been !l\iving# / 5 8 114 8940 1 1 b 11 he ^lived with \us# / 5 8 114 8950 1 1 b 11 and ^then he 'lived with my 'mother`s :s\ister# . / 5 8 114 8960 1 1 b 11 and it ^n\ever 'worked /out# / 5 8 114 8970 1 1 b 11 I mean ^it 'worked \out# / 5 8 114 8980 1 2 b 11 in that [t] we ^weren`t 'always :\/arguing or / 5 8 114 8980 1 1 b 11 'anything# / 5 8 114 8990 1 1 b 11 but ^he !w\anted his 'indep/endence# / 5 8 114 9000 1 2 b 11 and . ^\our 'house at th/at 'time 'just 'wasn`t / 5 8 114 9000 1 1 b 11 b\ig e'nough# / 5 8 114 9010 1 1 b 11 for ^him to 'have his \own 'little# / 5 8 115 9020 1 1 b 11 ^suite of :r\/ooms# / 5 8 115 9030 1 2 b 12 and [@] ^he ^he`d ((sort of)) :come 'in in the / 5 8 115 9030 1 1 b 12 \/evening# / 5 8 115 9040 1 1 b 11 and ^put the _telev\ision /on# / 5 8 115 9050 1 1 b 11 and ^that was the 'end of /\everything# / 5 8 115 9060 1 2 b 11 un^less we _all went _off and _sat in . / 5 8 115 9060 1 1 b 11 _down!st\airs or 'something# / 5 8 115 9070 1 1 a 11 ^[/mhm]# / 5 8 115 9080 1 2 b 11 ^and [@:m] _it it !r\eally 'wasn`t an 'ideal / 5 8 115 9080 1 1 b 11 situ=ation# / 5 8 116 9090 1 1 b 12 ^and so ^th\en he 'started 'going /off# / 5 8 116 9100 1 2 b 12 and ^he`s been 'living . he ^had a 'house in / 5 8 116 9100 1 1 b 12 !B\eckenham# - / 5 8 116 9110 1 1 b 11 and [@m] - - ^\anyway# / 5 8 116 9120 1 1 b 11 ^now it`s 'going to be 'pulled d\own# . / 5 8 116 9130 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - for [@:] . and they`re ^going to put 'up / 5 8 116 9130 1 1 b 11 fl\ats# / 5 8 116 9140 1 2 b 13 [@m] ^and ^they`re they`re ^\altering that {^that / 5 8 116 9140 1 1 b 13 d\istrict#}# / 5 8 116 9150 1 1 b 13 and ^so . ^you . we ^r\ealized# / 5 8 116 9160 1 1 b 11 that we`d ^have to 'find 'somewhere :\else for him#/ 5 8 117 9170 1 1 b 11 it ^all 'blew \up# / 5 8 117 9180 1 1 b 11 at a^bout a !m\onth a'go# - / 5 8 117 9190 1 1 b 11 ^and [@: 'dh@:] 'then !all the f\amily# / 5 8 117 9200 1 2 b 11 were ^having these sort of :big - c\onfabs you / 5 8 117 9200 1 1 b 11 kn/ow# . / 5 8 117 9210 1 1 b 11 *as to ^what* was to be "!d\one with him# / 5 8 117 9220 1 1 a 20 *((3 sylls))* / 5 8 117 9230 1 1(b 11 because [dh@] ^everybody kn\ew that# - / 5 8 117 9240 1 2 b 11 well ^everybody - I I sup:pose with with 'young / 5 8 117 9240 1 1 b 11 f\amilies# / 5 8 118 9250 1 2 b 12 and ^with ^with [@:m] - !{l\imited} r\/oom / 5 8 118 9250 1 1 b 12 {^r\/eally#}# / 5 8 118 9260 1 1 b 12 ^and and for ^\instance# / 5 8 118 9270 1 1 b 11 my ^m\other said# / 5 8 118 9280 1 2 b 11 ^well . 'she would . :\obviously {^rather h\ave / 5 8 118 9280 1 1 b 11 him#}# / 5 8 118 9290 1 1 b 11 she ^wasn`t going to :see him in a "!h\/ome# . / 5 8 118 9300 1 1 b 12 ^but [@ @:m] if ^if he !c\ame to 'live with /us# / 5 8 118 9310 1 1 b 11 ^then she would !h\ave to 'give up 'work# / 5 8 118 9320 1 1 b 11 she just ^couldn`t 'manage to look ":\after him# - / 5 8 119 9330 1 1 b 11 par^{t\icularly} as the 'years went b\y# / 5 8 119 9340 1 2 b 12 and I ^think you 'know if _he he`s "^going to have / 5 8 119 9340 1 1 b 12 an 'oper:\ation# / 5 8 119 9350 1 1 b 11 to ^have 'some kind of - [@:] "!j\oint put 'in# / 5 8 119 9360 1 1 b 11 a ^plastic j\oint or _something# / 5 8 119 9370 1 1 b 11 ^but . [?@:] it`ll !take a'bout a :y\ear# / 5 8 119 9380 1 1 b 12 he`ll ^have to [@:] 'when ^\afterwards# / 5 8 119 9390 1 1 b 11 ^y\/ou know# / 5 8 119 9400 1 1 b 11 he`s ^got to 'learn to _get ar\ound# / 5 8 119 9410 1 1 b 11 and . ^w\alk with it etc/etera# / 5 8 120 9420 1 1 b 11 and ^as he gets :\older# / 5 8 120 9430 1 1 b 12 I ^think ^sh\e 'said# / 5 8 120 9440 1 1 b 11 well she`d ^have to 'give up w\ork# / 5 8 120 9450 1 1 b 11 and [@:m] - I ^think [?@] the !thought of h\er# / 5 8 120 9460 1 1 b 11 ^spending !her l\ife# / 5 8 120 9470 1 1 b 11 the ^r\est of her _life# / 5 8 120 9480 1 1 b 11 "^at h\ome# / 5 8 120 9490 1 1 b 11 ^looking 'after 'my :gr\/andfather# / 5 8 120 9500 1 1 b 11 well . I`m ^sure 'she`d go :m\ad# / 5 8 120 9510 1 1 a 11 ^y=eah# / 5 8 121 9520 1 1 b 12 ^and because "^h\e# - / 5 8 121 9530 1 2 b 11 [?@: i] ((you ^know is a 'basically)) 'inde'pendent/ 5 8 121 9530 1 1 b 11 t\ype# / 5 8 121 9540 1 1 b 12 and [@:] . ^they they ((would)) ^probably :cl\ash# / 5 8 121 9550 1 2 b 11 ^as it 'is we 'always have him 'over at the / 5 8 121 9550 1 1 b 11 'week\end# / 5 8 121 9560 1 1 b 11 and . ^mummy pops 'over during the w\eek# / 5 8 121 9570 1 1 b 11 one ^\evening or s/omething# / 5 9 1 10 1 1 a 11 ^that !l\etter I was 'going to {^g\ive you#}# . / 5 9 1 20 1 1 a 11 to [@] ^take d\own# / 5 9 1 30 1 1 a 11 was ^just !sheer l\/aziness# / 5 9 1 40 1 2 a 11 be^cause [@] . I _wanted to 'get 'hold of 'Andrew / 5 9 1 40 1 1 a 11 !L\ance# / 5 9 1 50 1 1 a 20 but [@:m] . / 5 9 1 60 1 1 b 11 I ^probably 'could have :g\iven it 'to# . / 5 9 1 70 1 1 a 11 *^n\o# / 5 9 1 80 1 1 a 20 ((you))* / 5 9 1 90 1 1(b 11 *to ^s\ome*body# / 5 9 1 100 1 1 a 11 well it ^w\asn`t {im^p\ortant#}# / 5 9 1 110 1 2 a 11 and you ^might have gone _out of your _way 'to [@m]/ 5 9 1 110 1 1 a 11 . to !g\/ive it to him# / 5 9 1 120 1 1 a 11 so I ^didn`t really :like to . !\ask 'you _to# - / 5 9 1 130 1 1 a 11 [@] ^t\ake it t/o him# / 5 9 2 140 1 2 b 11 [w@] we ^didn`t 'actually 'go in'side the / 5 9 2 140 1 1 b 11 :c\ollege# / 5 9 2 150 1 1 a 11 *^oh I s\ee#* / 5 9 2 160 1 1(b 11 *^just .* 'into the !l\ecture 'theatre# / 5 9 2 170 1 1 a 11 ^have you seen !G\alway College# - / 5 9 2 180 1 1 b 11 ^just the :outs\ide# / 5 9 2 190 1 1 b 11 I ^didn`t go **:((in)) \inside#** / 5 9 2 200 1 1 a 11 **^\inside# / 5 9 2 210 1 1 a 11 it`s** ^really fan!t\astic# - / 5 9 2 220 1 1 a 11 [@:m i] it`s ^much more :sp\acious# . / 5 9 2 230 1 1 a 11 ^than [@:m] the [@] the !\other 'three c/olleges# ./ 5 9 3 240 1 2 a 12 ^and . [@:m] - ^though . I !think some 'people / 5 9 3 240 1 1 a 12 'think it`s [@] . 'rather :s\ombre# - . / 5 9 3 250 1 1 a 11 but [u] I ^l\/iked it 'actually# / 5 9 3 260 1 1 a 12 ^it was [@:m] - - it was [@] ^rather mon:\astic# . / 5 9 3 270 1 1 b 11 is the ^lay-out s\imilar# / 5 9 3 280 1 1 a 11 [? @] ^n\o# / 5 9 3 290 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 5 9 3 300 1 1 b 11 *((^[/m]#))* / 5 9 3 310 1 1(a 11 it`s com^pletely d\ifferent from the _others# . / 5 9 4 320 1 1 a 11 ((and)) there`s ^much more \air# / 5 9 4 330 1 1 a 11 [@m] for instance ^some of the [kor] c\olleges# / 5 9 4 340 1 2 a 12 ^have to . [@] . are are ^partly ex!p\osed to the / 5 9 4 340 1 1 a 12 'air# - / 5 9 4 350 1 1 a 11 [@m] at the ^s\/ides# - / 5 9 4 360 1 2 a 12 and . ^all [dhi: @m] - the the ^rooms are :grouped / 5 9 4 360 1 1 a 12 around *:st\air*cases# / 5 9 4 370 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 9 4 380 1 1(a 11 ^like at :C\ambridge# - / 5 9 4 390 1 2 a 12 ^but [@ its] it ^struck me as a '[ve] :very 'nice / 5 9 4 390 1 1 a 12 de!!s\/ign 'actually# - - / 5 9 4 400 1 1 a 20 *((2 sylls))* / 5 9 5 410 1 2 b 11 *but* they ^have no 'centre 'space that`s :fr\ee / 5 9 5 410 1 1 b 11 {^d\o they#}# / 5 9 5 420 1 1 a 11 ^[=@:m]# / 5 9 5 430 1 1 a 11 well I ^didn`t see e'nough \of it# . / 5 9 5 440 1 1 a 11 to to . de^termine the 'actual _str\ucture# / 5 9 5 450 1 2 a 11 but [@] - it ^looks very b\oring {from the / 5 9 5 450 1 1 a 11 ^outs\ide#}# / 5 9 5 460 1 1 a 11 I`ll ^say th\at *for it#* / 5 9 5 470 1 1 b 11 *how* ^long ((has)) it been \open# . / 5 9 5 480 1 1 a 11 [@m] . I ^think it just :\opened# / 5 9 5 490 1 1 a 12 ^after 'we . ^after we !l\eft# - - / 5 9 6 500 1 2 b 11 ^were you _there when they e'rected the 'new / 5 9 6 500 1 1 b 11 :s\/igns# - / 5 9 6 510 1 1 a 11 [dh] ^wh\ich 'new *_signs#* / 5 9 6 520 1 1 b 11 *^litt*le !n\otice b=oards# / 5 9 6 530 1 2 b 11 ^indi'cating 'where you 'had to 'go for / 5 9 6 530 1 1 b 11 !\everything# / 5 9 6 540 1 1 a 11 ^n/o# - / 5 9 6 550 1 1 a 11 ^that must have 'been in the 'year \after me# / 5 9 6 560 1 1 a 21 ^you _gr\a*duated* / 5 9 6 570 1 1 b 11 *I ^think* it`s 'fairly :r\ecent# . / 5 9 6 580 1 1 a 11 **^/is it#** / 5 9 7 590 1 2 b 11 **^I** [?] 'graduated {J\une} 'nineteen / 5 9 7 590 1 1 b 11 :s\eventy# . / 5 9 7 600 1 2 a 11 [w@ we] were "^you 'there when they 'occupied / 5 9 7 600 1 1 a 11 ((the)) Dor:n\assis 'building# / 5 9 7 610 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 7 620 1 1 b 11 ^just at the \end# / 5 9 7 630 1 1 b 11 ^that was the 'end of my *'final* !y\ear# / 5 9 7 640 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* - / 5 9 7 650 1 1 a 11 do you re^member 'Terry Gr\eenbridge# . / 5 9 7 660 1 1 b 11 ^Terry Gr\eenbridge# / 5 9 8 670 1 1 a 21 ^he was / 5 9 8 680 1 1 b 11 *yeah ^who !w\as he#* / 5 9 8 690 1 1 a 11 *^he used to be* 'master of :H\ereford 'College# - / 5 9 8 700 1 1 b 11 was ^he a 'theo!l\ogian# / 5 9 8 710 1 1 b 12 **((or ^[samth])) ^y\es#** / 5 9 8 720 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# / 5 9 8 730 1 1 a 11 ^th\at`s right# / 5 9 8 740 1 1 a 11 ^th\at`s** right# . / 5 9 8 750 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 8 760 1 2 a 11 well ^he he 'wrote and 'told me 'all a:b\out / 5 9 8 760 1 1 a 11 this# . / 5 9 8 770 1 2 a 11 and it ^sounded 'abso'lutely 'inconse:qu\ential / 5 9 8 770 1 1 a 11 /actually# . / 5 9 8 780 1 1 a 20 [@:] / 5 9 9 790 1 1 b 11 ^was he a _personal !fr\iend of y/ours or# . / 5 9 9 800 1 2 a 11 [@m] . well . [@] . he ^used to 'be my 'tutor 'when/ 5 9 9 800 1 1 a 11 - [@] 'Mary :P\erling# - / 5 9 9 810 1 1 a 11 do you do you ^kn/ow her# - / 5 9 9 820 1 1 b 11 she was ^cl\assics# / 5 9 9 830 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 9 840 1 1 a 11 yes *but ^{sh\e was my} :t\utor for ((2 sylls))#* / 5 9 9 850 1 1 b 11 *^how did you 'have 'such 'odd* !t\utors# / 5 9 9 860 1 1 b 11 if you were **^doing !\English#** / 5 9 10 870 1 1 a 11 **well ^I 'don`t :kn\ow#** / 5 9 10 880 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) she was ^absolutely :\useless# / 5 9 10 890 1 2 a 11 ( . laughs) but [@:m - @] ^he was 'always my / 5 9 10 890 1 1 a 11 :t\utor# / 5 9 10 900 1 1 a 11 [w] when ^she was 'either :\ill# / 5 9 10 910 1 1 a 11 or a^w\ay# / 5 9 10 920 1 1 b 11 ^y=eah# / 5 9 10 930 1 2 a 11 and I ^had some [m m] !!very 'interesting [?] / 5 9 10 930 1 1 a 11 _conver!s\ations 'with him# . / 5 9 10 940 1 1 a 11 I re^member \once [@:m]# . / 5 9 10 950 1 1 a 11 I ^went to 'him for a :r\eference# . / 5 9 10 960 1 1 a 11 to ^get this 'job in !\Italy# . / 5 9 11 970 1 1 a 12 ^and . [@] . he ^started the 'conver:s\ation# - / 5 9 11 980 1 2 a 11 [@m] . by saying ^nice !w\eather we`re 'having / 5 9 11 980 1 1 a 11 _lately# / 5 9 11 990 2 1 a 21 ( - *-* laughs) / 5 9 11 1000 1 1 b 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 9 11 990 1 1(a 11 which is a ri"^d\iculous *{^w\ay#}# / 5 9 11 1010 1 1 a 11 to ((sort of))* ^start a 'conver!!s\ation# . / 5 9 11 1020 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 5 9 11 1030 1 1 b 11 ((^qu\ite#))* / 5 9 11 1040 1 1(a 11 but ^s\omehow# / 5 9 11 1050 1 1 a 11 he ^got it [ru] r\ound# / 5 9 11 1060 1 1 a 11 to [w] a ^really 'worth'while 'conver**:s\ation#** / 5 9 12 1070 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 5 9 12 1080 1 1(a 11 that ^l\asted# . / 5 9 12 1090 1 1 a 11 for about ^three h/\ours# - / 5 9 12 1100 1 1 a 11 and . he ^started it \off# . / 5 9 12 1110 1 1 a 11 ^just to 'get to !kn\ow *me#* / 5 9 12 1120 1 1 b 11 *and* ^that was your _first !m\eeting# / 5 9 12 1130 1 1 a 11 ^[/\m]# - - / 5 9 12 1140 1 2 a 12 and ^he [?] well we`ve been ^quite 'close 'friends / 5 9 12 1140 1 1 a 12 ever *!s\/ince 'actually#* / 5 9 12 1150 1 1 b 11 *^g\osh#;-*; / 5 9 12 1160 1 1 b 11 ^what is he n\ow# - / 5 9 12 1170 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# . / 5 9 12 1180 1 1 a 11 he`s ^just 'on '[dhi:] the!\ology de'partment# / 5 9 13 1190 1 1 b 11 ^oh I _s\ee# / 5 9 13 1200 1 2(a 11 but ^he`s . !{n\ot} 'master of :H\ereford / 5 9 13 1200 1 1(a 11 'College# . / 5 9 13 1210 1 1 b 11 did you ^know that !D\ornhope# / 5 9 13 1220 1 1 b 11 was ^master of !H\ustleford# . / 5 9 13 1230 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 13 1240 1 1 a 11 ((and)) ^did you "!h\ear# / 5 9 13 1250 2 1 a 21 that *he [?]* / 5 9 13 1260 1 1 b 20 *((he))* / 5 9 13 1250 1 1(a 11 got **^m\arried# / 5 9 13 1270 1 1 a 21 to to ^Miss ( - - laughs) / 5 9 13 1280 1 1 b 11 **"^m\arried to# / 5 9 13 1290 1 1 b 11 "^Mary M/\istle'ton# / 5 9 13 1300 1 1 b 11 ( - laughs) ^[\m]#** / 5 9 14 1310 1 2 a 11 yes ^she** was 'always 'rather . [@] :p\ushing for / 5 9 14 1310 1 1 a 11 'that# / 5 9 14 1320 1 1 a 11 I could ^t\ell it# . / 5 9 14 1330 1 1 a 11 she was ^getting !more [d\efpr@t]# / 5 9 14 1340 1 1 a 11 as her *^sk\irts# / 5 9 14 1350 1 1 a 11 [r@hr] ^r\ose# / 5 9 14 1360 1 1 a 11 up her ^kn\ees#* / 5 9 14 1370 1 2 b 11 *(laughs) ^I was 'quite sur!pr\ised* ((/ac**tually / 5 9 14 1370 1 1 b 11 that#))** / 5 9 14 1380 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** . / 5 9 14 1390 1 2 a 11 oh . you could ^see she was 'on the / 5 9 14 1390 1 1 a 11 w\atch-'out# - - . / 5 9 15 1400 1 1 b 11 *^y\eah#* / 5 9 15 1410 1 1(a 11 [*i@* i ??] her ^desper\ation# / 5 9 15 1420 2 1 a 21 was in ^direct pro'portion to her . *to to* / 5 9 15 1430 1 1 b 11 *(laughs) to her "^sk\irts#* / 5 9 15 1420 1 1(a 11 to her !sk\irts {^y\es#}# . / 5 9 15 1440 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) [@:m] - ^y\es# / 5 9 15 1450 1 1 a 11 she ^she was 'rather a :b\itch to me /actually# . / 5 9 15 1460 1 1 b 11 I ^never *:h\ad her# / 5 9 15 1470 1 1 b 11 but I ^heard . some* _nasty r\umours# - / 5 9 16 1480 1 1 a 11 *((one one rather [th]))* . ^y\es# . / 5 9 16 1490 1 1 a 11 but she [?] "^could be [re] n\/asty# . / 5 9 16 1500 1 1 a 11 [em] . I ^always 'used to 'try and :h\umour 'her# -/ 5 9 16 1510 1 1 a 12 ^but [@:m] . one ^\always 'felt that# . / 5 9 16 1520 1 1 a 11 the ^f\act that# / 5 9 16 1530 1 1 a 11 [@] ^she wasn`t m\arried# . / 5 9 16 1540 1 2 a 11 was ^always being 'taken 'out on the 'people who / 5 9 16 1540 1 1 a 11 'wrote !\essays 'for 'her# - / 5 9 16 1550 1 1 b 11 ^{y\es} qu/\ite# / 5 9 16 1560 1 1 a 11 I mean ^\once# . / 5 9 16 1570 1 1 a 12 [@] I I ^wr\ote a . "^\I 'thought# / 5 9 16 1580 1 1 a 11 was a "^{g\ood} . and o:riginal :\essay# . / 5 9 17 1590 1 1 a 11 ^on [@:m] !Shakespeare`s !c\omedies# / 5 9 17 1600 1 1 a 11 and she ^called it ec_centric !g\obbledi'gook# / 5 9 17 1610 1 1 a 20 *( - - laughs)* / 5 9 17 1620 1 1 b 20 *( - - laughs)* - / 5 9 17 1630 1 1 a 11 ((which)) is ^t\ypical# - - - / 5 9 17 1640 1 1 a 11 ((anyway)) ^how do you 'find w\orking at# / 5 9 17 1650 1 1 a 11 ^Uni'versity C\ollege# - - . / 5 9 17 1660 1 1 b 11 ^tr\ying# / 5 9 17 1670 1 1 b 11 at ^t\/imes# / 5 9 17 1680 1 1 a 20 ( - giggles) / 5 9 18 1690 1 1(b 11 ^v\ery 'trying# . / 5 9 18 1700 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 18 1710 1 1 b 11 it de^pends on 'how I 'wake 'up in the !m\ornings# / 5 9 18 1720 1 1 b 11 as ^w\ell# / 5 9 18 1730 1 1 b 11 I I "^hate !M\ondays# - - / 5 9 18 1740 1 1 a 11 ^did you !find it . !h\ard work# - / 5 9 18 1750 1 1 b 11 ((well)) ^not so 'much h/\ard as# . / 5 9 18 1760 1 1 b 11 it`s a ^question of ad:j\usting _to# . / 5 9 18 1770 1 1 b 11 to ^Worth`s !t\emperament r/eally# . / 5 9 18 1780 1 1 b 20 *((but))* / 5 9 18 1790 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# *-* / 5 9 18 1800 1 1 a 11 . you ^want to be [g]\areful# . / 5 9 19 1810 1 1 a 11 *^how much you !m\ention (('here#)) . / 5 9 19 1820 1 1 a 20 ( - . laughs)* / 5 9 19 1830 1 1 b 11 *^yes qu\ite# / 5 9 19 1840 1 2 b 11 ( - laughs)* . well if you ^{w\ill 'ask} :leading / 5 9 19 1840 1 1 b 11 :qu\/estions# / 5 9 19 1850 1 1 b 20 **( - - laughs)** / 5 9 19 1860 1 1 a 11 **( - - laughs)** ^y\es# / 5 9 19 1870 1 1 a 11 ^that was a 'bit of a sw/ine 'that# - . / 5 9 19 1880 1 1 b 11 ((but)) ^st\ill# - . / 5 9 19 1890 1 1 b 11 ^no I enj\oy it# / 5 9 19 1900 1 1 b 11 at ^least ((they)) 'don`t 'get very b\/ored# . / 5 9 19 1910 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 5 9 19 1920 1 1 a 11 *^n\o# / 5 9 19 1930 1 1 a 11 I can im^\agine 'that#* / 5 9 20 1940 1 1 b 11 *I ^think you "!c\ould do# / 5 9 20 1950 1 1 b 11 ^very* !\easily# / 5 9 20 1960 1 1 b 11 with ^most 'secre!tarial !j\obs# - / 5 9 20 1970 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 20 1980 1 2 a 12 but ^one [n] "^one 'thing that 'struck 'me as / 5 9 20 1980 1 1 a 12 'always - [r] !r\ather 'terrifying# / 5 9 20 1990 1 1 a 11 a^bout !y\our 'job# . / 5 9 20 2000 1 1 a 11 was [dhi:] the pre^c\ision {^requ\ired#}# / 5 9 20 2010 1 1 a 11 to . ^type 'out :those sl\ips# - . / 5 9 20 2020 1 1 a 20 [@:m] - - / 5 9 20 2030 1 1 b 11 you ^mean the !survey !t\exts# / 5 9 20 2040 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 20 2050 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 20 2060 1 1 a 11 [dh] the ^sp\oken 'texts# / 5 9 20 2070 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 20 2080 1 1 b 11 ^qu\ite# / 5 9 21 2090 1 1 a 11 (([@])) ^{th\at would} !t\errify *'me#* / 5 9 21 2100 1 1 b 12 *oh* I ^didn`t like [?] at ^f\irst# / 5 9 21 2110 1 1 b 11 I "^really 'found it . !\agonizing# / 5 9 21 2120 1 2 b 12 because I just ^couldn`t . "^everything 'seemed to / 5 9 21 2120 1 1 b 12 go wr\ong# . / 5 9 21 2130 1 2 b 12 I used to ^t\ype the _wrong ^m\iss [?] 'out the / 5 9 21 2130 1 1 b 12 _lines and# - / 5 9 21 2140 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 21 2150 1 1(b 11 just . "^type the the 'accents the 'wrong w\/ay# / 5 9 21 2160 1 1 a 20 *( - . laughs)* / 5 9 22 2170 1 1(b 11 *and "^miss out !cl\/oses#;-*; / 5 9 22 2180 1 1 b 11 but . it ^came 'after a :wh\ile# . / 5 9 22 2190 1 2 b 12 I ^[th i?] an ad^vantage is that you c\an 'go / 5 9 22 2190 1 1 b 12 {^sl\owly#}# / 5 9 22 2200 1 1 b 11 you`ve ^got an ex!c\use for t/yping 'slowly# / 5 9 22 2210 1 2 b 11 you ^don`t 'have to !think that you`re :whizzing / 5 9 22 2210 1 1 b 11 a'long the whole *t/ime#* / 5 9 22 2220 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* . / 5 9 22 2230 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 22 2240 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 22 2250 1 1 b 21 **^which is** / 5 9 22 2260 1 1 a 11 **are** ^\are you 'pushed for t/ime in 'fact# . / 5 9 23 2270 1 1 b 11 with ^th\/ose# . / 5 9 23 2280 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 23 2290 1 1 b 11 ^w\ell# / 5 9 23 2300 1 1 b 21 ^usually *'nobody`s ((sort of))* / 5 9 23 2310 1 1 a 11 *^w\ell# / 5 9 23 2320 1 1 a 11 in* "^g\eneral# - . / 5 9 23 2330 1 1 b 11 "^when it !comes to :\/ordinary 'typing# / 5 9 23 2340 1 2 b 11 ^{y\es} I !think I 'should 'do it 'very / 5 9 23 2340 1 1 b 11 :qu\ickly# - - / 5 9 23 2350 1 1 b 12 and ^th/en I !get '[ver] I "^get 'self-c\onscious# / 5 9 23 2360 1 2 b 11 at the ^fact that I`m !not 'really 'typing 'very / 5 9 23 2360 1 1 b 11 :f\ast# / 5 9 23 2370 1 1 b 11 and I ^think . 'every'body`s a!w\are of 'this# . / 5 9 24 2380 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 24 2390 1 1(b 11 *^think*ing !how t\yping# . / 5 9 24 2400 1 1 b 11 how ^{sl\owly} 'that girl`s !t\yping# / 5 9 24 2410 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 5 9 24 2420 1 1 b 11 *((^b=ut#))* . / 5 9 24 2430 1 2 a 11 but ^how how does 'this 'match 'up to your i:d\ea / 5 9 24 2430 1 1 a 11 of a 'job# . / 5 9 24 2440 1 1 a 11 [@] ^when you 'were at . [@:] - !t\eaching# . / 5 9 24 2450 1 1 a 11 [@] ^s\ecre'tary# . / 5 9 24 2460 1 1 a 12 ^[sekr] ^secre!t\arial 'school# - - / 5 9 25 2470 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t think "r\eally# / 5 9 25 2480 1 1 b 11 one ^has an i:d\eal# / 5 9 25 2490 1 2 b 12 of a ^j\ob when you`re . ^if you`re _doing / 5 9 25 2490 1 1 b 12 'something like :secre!t\arial 'work# / 5 9 25 2500 1 1 b 11 it`s [@] - "^best of 'all :\evils# / 5 9 25 2510 2 1 b 22 ^r\eally that / 5 9 25 2520 1 1 a 11 ^y=es# / 5 9 25 2510 1 1(b 12 ^one !th\inks of# . / 5 9 25 2530 1 1 a 11 but [hu] ^h\ow did you {^f\ind it#}# / 5 9 25 2540 1 1 a 11 at at [@] . ^secret=arial 'school# . / 5 9 25 2550 1 1 b 11 oh it was ^\awful# . / 5 9 25 2560 1 1 b 11 it ^r\eally 'was# . / 5 9 26 2570 1 2 b 11 because [n] they dis^{l\ike((d)) 'teaching} / 5 9 26 2570 1 1 b 11 :gr\aduates {for ((a)) "^st\art#}# . / 5 9 26 2580 1 1 a 11 ^wh/\y# - / 5 9 26 2590 1 1 b 11 ^w=ell# / 5 9 26 2600 1 2 b 11 [n] ^none of the 'teachers were 'graduates / 5 9 26 2600 1 1 b 11 \obviously# - / 5 9 26 2610 1 1 b 11 they were *[? @] ^fairly \/old#* / 5 9 26 2620 1 1 a 11 *oh ^n\o# / 5 9 26 2630 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* - / 5 9 26 2640 1 2(b 12 ^and they re!sented the f\act that [?] we were . / 5 9 26 2640 1 1(b 12 ^fairly \edu'cated# / 5 9 26 2650 1 1 b 21 and ^much pre'ferred the / 5 9 26 2660 1 1 a 11 ^r/\eally# . / 5 9 27 2670 1 1 b 11 oh *^y\es#* / 5 9 27 2680 1 1 a 11 *and* they ^sh\owed it# . / 5 9 27 2690 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 27 2700 1 1 b 11 ^very m\uch _so# / 5 9 27 2710 1 1 b 11 they "^kept t\elling us that# - / 5 9 27 2720 1 1 b 11 we ^might be edu!c\/ation# / 5 9 27 2730 1 1 b 11 but we ^couldn`t do 'any*thing !\else#* / 5 9 27 2740 1 1 a 11 *( - laughs)* ^y\es# / 5 9 27 2750 1 1 a 11 [dhi] this is what ^\I was 'always 'being 'told# / 5 9 27 2760 1 1 a 11 on ^all [dhi:] . va!c\ation 'jobs I 'did# - / 5 9 27 2770 1 1 a 12 ^that [@ - @m] - for ^=instance# / 5 9 27 2780 1 1 a 11 when ^I was . a !w\aiter# . / 5 9 28 2790 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 28 2800 1 1 b 11 *((^qu\ite#))* / 5 9 28 2810 1 1(a 11 *[oo]* ^on the f\erries# . / 5 9 28 2820 1 1 a 11 [@m ha?] ^I was \always 'being 'told# / 5 9 28 2830 1 1 a 11 you ^may 'have a degr\ee# / 5 9 28 2840 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 5 9 28 2850 1 1 b 11 ex^\actly#* / 5 9 28 2860 1 1 a 11 *but you`re "^no _better* _waiter than :\I am# / 5 9 28 2870 1 1 a 20 ( - giggles) / 5 9 28 2880 1 2 b 11 ((they said)) (3 seconds of inarticulate sounds) / 5 9 28 2880 1 1 b 11 you ^mustn`t "!th\ink ((it))# / 5 9 28 2890 1 1 b 11 this is an ac^quired sk\ill# / 5 9 28 2900 1 1 b 11 which ^needs !pr\actice# / 5 9 28 2910 1 1 b 11 you must just ^keep on g\oing 'at it# - / 5 9 29 2920 1 1 a 11 ^y\eah# . / 5 9 29 2930 1 1(b 11 ^hours 'every :d\ay# / 5 9 29 2940 1 1 a 11 but ^what 'made you de:c\ide# - / 5 9 29 2950 1 1 a 12 ^did you ^did you 'go from 'univ\ersity# / 5 9 29 2960 1 1 a 11 [s] to ^secret\arial *'school# / 5 9 29 2970 2 1 a 21 [@]* / 5 9 29 2980 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 29 2970 1 1(a 11 ^autom\atically# / 5 9 29 2990 1 1 b 11 ((well)) it was a re^{\action} a_gainst !f\inals# -/ 5 9 29 3000 1 1 a 11 ^w/as it# / 5 9 29 3010 1 1 a 11 *. ^y\/es#* / 5 9 30 3020 1 1 b 11 *well* I had a ^bit of a 'bad t\ime# / 5 9 30 3030 1 1 b 11 and I ^th=ought# / 5 9 30 3040 1 1 b 11 I just "^can`t 'teach [im ?] im:m\ediately# / 5 9 30 3050 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 5 9 30 3060 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# - . / 5 9 30 3070 1 2 a 11 yeah it`s ((a)) ^really traum\atic {^way of !d\oing/ 5 9 30 3070 1 1 a 11 *it#}#* / 5 9 30 3080 1 1 b 21 *^so* I just 'went into - / 5 9 30 3090 1 1 a 11 the an"^noying thing \is# / 5 9 30 3100 1 1 a 11 that ^so many _people !th\ink# / 5 9 30 3110 1 1 a 11 it`s ^some _kind of re!fl\ection# / 5 9 30 3120 1 1 a 11 on ^{wh\at you`ve 'been} d\oing# - / 5 9 30 3130 1 1 a 11 for the ^last . _three y\ears# . / 5 9 31 3140 1 1 a 11 ^=and# . / 5 9 31 3150 1 1 a 11 as a ^matter of ":f\act# / 5 9 31 3160 1 1 a 11 ^this was a 'kind of ":m\yth# - / 5 9 31 3170 1 1 a 11 ^that was sus"!t\ained# . / 5 9 31 3180 1 1 a 11 ^by by the !actual !l\ecturers# . / 5 9 31 3190 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 31 3200 1 1 b 11 *^qu\ite#* / 5 9 31 3210 1 1(a 11 *^who s=aid#* / 5 9 31 3220 1 1 a 11 [@] ^finals 'don`t m\atter# / 5 9 31 3230 1 1 a 11 but ^my _God they "!d\id 'matter# / 5 9 31 3240 1 1 a 11 **to "^th**\/em# / 5 9 31 3250 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** . / 5 9 31 3260 1 1 b 11 [?@] ex^\actly# - / 5 9 31 3270 1 2 a 11 [@: @:] - - and [?@] ^that g\ot me a 'bit / 5 9 31 3270 1 1 a 11 /actually# / 5 9 32 3280 1 1 a 11 because [dhs] . ^those h\ours# / 5 9 32 3290 1 1 a 11 ^spent in the ex_amin:\ation room# / 5 9 32 3300 1 1 a 11 [b@] ^bore !no re!l\ationship# / 5 9 32 3310 1 2 a 12 ^to [@] . to what ^\I((`d)) been 'doing in the / 5 9 32 3310 1 1 a 12 'last 'three y/ears# / 5 9 32 3320 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 5 9 32 3330 1 1 b 11 it`s very ^tr\/ue# - - - / 5 9 32 3340 1 2 a 12 I ^m=ean ((in)) ^one had !alway((s)) been t\aught / 5 9 32 3340 1 1 a 12 that# . / 5 9 32 3350 1 1 a 11 ^uni'versity was a 'place of :l\earning# - / 5 9 32 3360 1 2 a 11 ^rather than a 'place . where :things were / 5 9 32 3360 1 1 a 11 !t\aught# - - / 5 9 32 3370 1 1 a 11 and . ^I r\eckon# / 5 9 32 3380 1 1 a 11 that ^through those 'three y/ears# / 5 9 33 3390 1 1 a 11 I ^had been !!l\earning# . / 5 9 33 3400 1 1 a 11 ^rather than 'being !t\aught 'something# . / 5 9 33 3410 1 1 b 11 ^did you !h\ate doing the ex/ams# - . / 5 9 33 3420 1 1 b 11 (([@m])) ^were you 'very :n\erv*ous (('at)) them#* / 5 9 33 3430 1 1 a 12 *I "^really* [? w w] ^wh/at# . / 5 9 33 3440 1 1 a 11 ^I was !n\ervous# . / 5 9 33 3450 1 1 a 11 but I . ^fr\ankly 'I was# . / 5 9 33 3460 1 1 a 11 I was in^d\ifferent to 'them# . / 5 9 33 3470 1 1 a 11 I ^kn/\ew# / 5 9 33 3480 1 1 a 11 [@] to a ^c\ertain ex'tent# / 5 9 33 3490 1 1 a 11 ((that)) that my ^future dep/ended 'on them# - / 5 9 33 3500 1 1 a 11 but ^this is wh\ere# . / 5 9 34 3510 1 1 a 11 [@] ^so 'much that 'is ir:r\elevant# . / 5 9 34 3520 1 1 a 11 is ^{introd\uced} into the 'uni'versity :s\ystem# / 5 9 34 3530 1 1 b 11 ^yes qu\ite# . / 5 9 34 3540 1 1(a 11 be^c=ause# / 5 9 34 3550 1 1 a 11 when you`ve ^g\ot these 'two 'things# / 5 9 34 3560 1 1 a 11 which are . [@] . es^sentially !\alien# - . / 5 9 34 3570 1 1 a 11 "^being 'bound :\up with 'one an'other# / 5 9 34 3580 1 1 a 11 one`s ^f\uture# - . / 5 9 34 3590 1 1 a 11 and . ^how one "d=oes# . / 5 9 34 3600 1 1 a 11 ^how one l\earns# / 5 9 34 3610 1 1 a 11 at a ^uni:v\ersity# - / 5 9 34 3620 1 1 a 12 ^that . ^that . an:n\oyed me# - / 5 9 34 3630 1 1 a 11 the the ir^r\elevance# / 5 9 34 3640 1 1 a 11 of ^these 'two _{th\ings} to each _\other# - - / 5 9 35 3650 1 2 b 11 ^did you _have a _lot of !mass hys:t\eria in y/our / 5 9 35 3650 1 1 b 11 year# / 5 9 35 3660 1 1 b 21 were ^people . / 5 9 35 3670 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# . / 5 9 35 3680 1 1 a 11 "^right be:hind "!V\alerie# . / 5 9 35 3690 1 2 a 13 ^there was [? @:m] - there was a ^[g\@:?] and ^not / 5 9 35 3690 1 1 a 13 far from m/\e {^t/\oo#}# . / 5 9 35 3700 1 1 a 11 [@] ^there was a !g=irl# / 5 9 35 3710 1 1 a 11 who ^spent the "!wh/ole t\ime# / 5 9 35 3720 1 1 a 11 "^cr/\ying# . / 5 9 35 3730 1 1 b 11 ^yes in _f\act# / 5 9 35 3740 1 1 b 11 there was [?] the ^girl be'hind !m\e 'did 'that# / 5 9 36 3750 1 1 a 11 ^r/eally# / 5 9 36 3760 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 36 3770 1 1 a 11 *((well))* it`s "^most _off-!p\utting# . / 5 9 36 3780 1 1 b 11 ^Pete D\olo'mite# / 5 9 36 3790 1 1 b 11 ^came and :s\aved her# / 5 9 36 3800 1 1 b 11 with a ^big _((long)) :h\andker'chief# . / 5 9 36 3810 1 1 a 11 ^r/eally# / 5 9 36 3820 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# . / 5 9 36 3830 1 1 b 11 *he was ^very :n\ice#* / 5 9 36 3840 1 1 a 11 *well it`s "^really* an:n\oying /actually# / 5 9 36 3850 1 1 a 11 and she "^kept 'on _going \out# / 5 9 36 3860 1 1 a 11 and ^being 'led *\/in#* . / 5 9 37 3870 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* . / 5 9 37 3880 1 1 b 11 **and ^bringing in !glasses of !w\ater#** / 5 9 37 3890 1 2(a 11 **and in ^fact ((2 sylls)) '[gra: 'gra:] ((they))**/ 5 9 37 3890 1 1(a 11 gr\anted her# / 5 9 37 3900 1 1 a 11 [@ @ @] ^quite a r\easonable degr/ee# - - - / 5 9 37 3910 1 1 a 11 ((actually)) I ^I`m sur:prised to f\ind my'self# / 5 9 37 3920 1 1 a 11 in the ^academic [@] . !w\orld a*'gain /actually#* / 5 9 37 3930 1 1 b 11 *^after th\at#* / 5 9 37 3940 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 5 9 37 3950 1 1 b 11 **^I 'just** 'felt I [?] a com"!plete 're\action# / 5 9 38 3960 1 1 b 11 I ^had to 'get a!w\ay for a _while# . / 5 9 38 3970 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 38 3980 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 38 3990 1 1 b 11 *((2 sylls))* ^sure I 'took the :r\ight 'course# - / 5 9 38 4000 1 1 a 11 ^yes !w=ell# . / 5 9 38 4010 1 1 a 11 [ju] ( - giggles) in a ^s\ense# / 5 9 38 4020 1 1 a 11 you`ve ^come _full !c\ircle# . / 5 9 38 4030 1 1 a 21 **( . giggles) be^cause ( - giggles)** / 5 9 38 4040 1 1 b 11 **^y\es# / 5 9 38 4050 1 1 b 11 ( . laughs) "^w\ell# / 5 9 38 4060 1 2 b 12 ^by the 'time** ^by the 'end of a :year`s / 5 9 38 4060 1 1 b 12 'secret\arial 'course# / 5 9 38 4070 1 1 b 11 I was ^quite 'glad to 'vote :b\ack# / 5 9 39 4080 1 1 a 11 ^r/eally# / 5 9 39 4090 1 1 b 11 ^oh y\es# / 5 9 39 4100 1 1 b 11 *[i] it was "^s\o 'bad#* / 5 9 39 4110 1 2 a 12 *and you ^do "find you* ^do 'feel that you`re in an/ 5 9 39 4110 1 1 a 12 :aca'demic !\atmos'phere# / 5 9 39 4120 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 39 4130 1 1 a 11 I ^m=ean# . / 5 9 39 4140 1 2 a 11 ^Worth 'couldn`t be a di:r\ector {in ^some / 5 9 39 4140 1 1 a 11 !c\ompany#}# / 5 9 39 4150 1 1 a 11 or ^something :like !th\at# / 5 9 39 4160 1 1 b 11 ^w\ell# . / 5 9 39 4170 1 1 b 11 in his ^tr\eatment# / 5 9 39 4180 1 1 b 11 I ^think he !{c\ould be} !s\ometimes {^y\es#}# / 5 9 39 4190 1 1 b 11 but ^not the 'actual :work I`m d\oing# . / 5 9 40 4200 1 1 b 11 I`m not ^ordering _three 'tons of :p\aint or# - / 5 9 40 4210 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 5 9 40 4220 1 1(b 11 *^f\urn*iture# / 5 9 40 4230 1 1 b 11 for ^some_body`s **back**!r\/oom but# - / 5 9 40 4240 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** - . / 5 9 40 4250 1 1 a 12 no but ^I 'find [dhi:] I ^found the "!y\ear# - / 5 9 40 4260 1 1 a 11 I ^spent in :\/Italy# / 5 9 40 4270 1 1 a 11 [w@] was ^quite [@m] - . !wh\olesome# - / 5 9 40 4280 1 1 a 11 it ^really w\as# / 5 9 40 4290 1 1 a 20 [@:] . / 5 9 40 4300 1 2 b 11 ((well you)) had ^plenty of !fr\eedom {as / 5 9 40 4300 1 1 b 11 ^w\ell#}# . / 5 9 40 4310 1 1 a 11 ^oh !y\es# . / 5 9 40 4320 1 1 a 12 ^it`s [@m . @] . it was a ^kind of 'inde:p\endence#/ 5 9 41 4330 1 1 a 11 [@m] - ^being a !f\oreigner# / 5 9 41 4340 1 1 b 11 ^[=m]# - / 5 9 41 4350 1 2(a 11 [@] . ^grants you an an im!m=ense . {a^mount of . / 5 9 41 4350 1 1(a 11 _inde:p\endence#}# . / 5 9 41 4360 1 1 a 11 [@] you`re ^not re:qu\ired# . / 5 9 41 4370 1 1 a 11 to ^do !all !!s\orts of 'things# . / 5 9 41 4380 1 1 a 11 and . you can "^d\o all 'sorts of 'things# . / 5 9 41 4390 1 1 a 11 and ^people 'take it for !gr\anted# - / 5 9 41 4400 1 1 a 11 be^cause 'you`re a !f\oreign*er# / 5 9 41 4410 1 1 a 20 [@ ?@ @]* / 5 9 41 4420 1 1 b 11 *were you a ^n\ovelty . t/o* them# . / 5 9 42 4430 1 1 a 11 "^sl\ightly {^y\es#}# / 5 9 42 4440 1 1 a 20 *. [@m]* / 5 9 42 4450 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]# / 5 9 42 4460 1 2 b 11 I mean* ^how did the [?] :children re\act 'to / 5 9 42 4460 1 1 b 11 you# - / 5 9 42 4470 1 1 b 21 ^w\ere they **[um]** / 5 9 42 4480 1 1 a 11 **[@m]** "^th\ey# / 5 9 42 4490 1 1 a 11 [? . @] ^criti'cized my I:t\alian# / 5 9 42 4500 1 1 a 11 the ^whole dam((ned)) *!t\ime# / 5 9 42 4510 1 1 a 20 ( - - giggles)* / 5 9 42 4520 1 1 b 11 *( - giggles) ^that`s not 'very n/ice# / 5 9 42 4530 1 1 b 11 ^\is it#* / 5 9 42 4540 1 1 a 21 +(([@m])) [w] ^whereas+ / 5 9 42 4550 1 1 b 11 +but ^were you _teaching 'them+ :\English# . / 5 9 42 4560 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 42 4570 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 42 4580 1 1 a 11 though ^what was !st\upid a'bout it w/as that# . / 5 9 43 4590 1 1 a 11 [@] o^r\/iginally# - / 5 9 43 4600 1 1 a 11 [@] . I was ^teaching _by the di:rect _m\ethod# . / 5 9 43 4610 1 1 a 11 ^wh\ich is# - / 5 9 43 4620 1 1 a 11 [@m] . you ^teach !{\always} in \English# . / 5 9 43 4630 1 1 a 11 "^you sp\eak in 'English# / 5 9 43 4640 1 1 a 11 and ^th\ey 'speak in 'English# - / 5 9 43 4650 1 1 a 11 [b @ @ ? - ?] the ^i'dea be'hind it \is# / 5 9 43 4660 1 2 a 11 that ^you - [@:m] - - . !teach {th\em} . / 5 9 43 4660 1 1 a 11 \English# . / 5 9 43 4670 1 1 a 11 ^much in the 'same w\ay# / 5 9 43 4680 1 1 a 11 as as ^they 'learnt their _mother :t\ongue# - / 5 9 43 4690 1 1 a 12 [@:m] - but of [k] ^this \is [@dh@] in "^th\eory# / 5 9 43 4700 1 1 a 11 ((it`s a)) it`s an ^ideal id/\ea# / 5 9 44 4710 1 1 a 11 it`s ^quite a *"n/\atural 'i'dea#* / 5 9 44 4720 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 5 9 44 4730 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]#* . / 5 9 44 4740 1 1(a 11 but it ^takes 'you a !very 'long :t\ime# . / 5 9 44 4750 1 1 a 11 ^to . 'to . [@] ex:plain a "!very 'simple p\oint# ./ 5 9 44 4760 1 2 a 12 which ^just . [@] you could ex^plain the / 5 9 44 4760 1 1 a 12 trans:{l\ation} of the w\ord# . / 5 9 44 4770 1 1 a 11 with^in . about 'two !s\econds# - / 5 9 44 4780 1 1 a 11 and e^v\/entually# / 5 9 44 4790 1 1 a 11 [@] ^as I 'came !b\etter# . / 5 9 44 4800 1 1 a 11 [@] . ^came to 'under:st\and# / 5 9 44 4810 1 1 a 11 I^talian :b\etter# / 5 9 44 4820 1 1 a 11 I I ^used I'talian in the :cl\asses# / 5 9 45 4830 1 1 b 11 ^how !\old# / 5 9 45 4840 1 1 b 11 were ^most of the !ch\ildren# - . / 5 9 45 4850 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 5 9 45 4860 1 1 a 11 [@] ^only a !f\ew of them# / 5 9 45 4870 1 1 a 11 were ^ch\ildren in 'fact# . / 5 9 45 4880 1 1 a 11 [@m] . ^I was 'teaching :\adults# . / 5 9 45 4890 1 1 b 11 oh I ^s\ee# / 5 9 45 4900 1 1 b 11 I didn`t *^r\ealize 'that# / 5 9 45 4910 1 1 b 11 I ^always 'thought they were :l\ittle#* / 5 9 45 4920 1 1(a 11 *((2 sylls)) ^{\adults} :m\ainly#* - / 5 9 45 4930 1 1 a 11 **^th=ough#** . / 5 9 45 4940 1 1 a 11 +my ^b\est '[kla:]#+ / 5 9 45 4950 1 1 b 11 **but** . +^wasn`t there a+ !b\arrier# / 5 9 46 4960 1 1 b 11 ^r\eally# / 5 9 46 4970 1 1 b 11 in ^teaching a :direct !m\ethod# . / 5 9 46 4980 1 1 b 11 to ^somebody whose _native _t\ongue# / 5 9 46 4990 1 1 b 11 had ^been I:t\alian# / 5 9 46 5000 1 1 b 11 for ^some !t\ime# . / 5 9 46 5010 1 1 a 11 well ^th\at 'wasn`t# / 5 9 46 5020 1 1 a 11 so ^d\ifficult# . / 5 9 46 5030 1 1 a 11 ^what I !d\id 'find 'difficult# / 5 9 46 5040 1 1 a 11 at ^f\irst# / 5 9 46 5050 1 1 a 11 was ^t\eaching [@m]# . / 5 9 46 5060 1 1 a 11 a ^foreign :l\anguage# . / 5 9 46 5070 1 1 a 11 to ^p\eople# . / 5 9 46 5080 1 1 a 11 to ^ch\ildren# / 5 9 46 5090 1 1 a 11 who are "^so y\oung# - / 5 9 46 5100 1 1 a 11 that they had ^no con:c\eption# - / 5 9 46 5110 1 1 a 11 of ^what a !language !w\as# / 5 9 46 5120 1 1 b 11 oh I ^s\ee# / 5 9 46 5130 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 47 5140 1 2 a 11 they had ^no con'ception of I"!talian as a / 5 9 47 5140 1 1 a 11 :l\anguage# / 5 9 47 5150 1 2 a 12 they ^just had a conc\eption - . of the ^words they/ 5 9 47 5150 1 1 a 12 :/\used# - / 5 9 47 5160 1 1 a 11 ^which 'were the :m\/eanings# / 5 9 47 5170 1 1 a 11 of ^w\ords# - . / 5 9 47 5180 1 1 a 11 and "^th\at was d/ifferent# / 5 9 47 5190 1 1 a 12 but in ^fact !once . and I I did ^half an !h\our# ./ 5 9 47 5200 1 1 a 11 ^in the !m\orning# . / 5 9 47 5210 1 1 a 11 to "^v\ery young ch/ildren# . / 5 9 47 5220 1 2 a 11 ^who [?] !learnt it 'abso'lutely ":p\arrot / 5 9 47 5220 1 1 a 11 _fashion# / 5 9 47 5230 1 1 a 11 and it was ter^r\ific# / 5 9 47 5240 1 1 a 11 [dh@] ^they were 'speaking :\English _some_times# / 5 9 47 5250 1 2 a 13 ^better than . ^better than the [@:m] . ^better / 5 9 47 5250 1 1 a 13 than the !!\adults# / 5 9 48 5260 1 2 b 11 and ^yet you _felt ((that)) they :didn`t 'really / 5 9 48 5260 1 1 b 11 'understand what they were !t\alking a'bout# / 5 9 48 5270 1 1 a 11 "^[=@:m]# . / 5 9 48 5280 1 1 b 11 or *^d\id they#* / 5 9 48 5290 1 2(a 11 *^well* as 'far as they 'under'stand their :\own / 5 9 48 5290 1 1(a 11 'word for *s/ome*thing# - - / 5 9 48 5300 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 48 5310 1 1(a 11 [@] . ^y\es# . / 5 9 48 5320 1 1 a 11 they ^d\id# . / 5 9 48 5330 1 1 a 11 [j] you ^see an /object# . / 5 9 49 5340 1 1 a 11 you ^call it !by a !!n\ame# . / 5 9 49 5350 1 1 a 12 and ^this was [?] ^this was !\it# / 5 9 49 5360 1 1 a 11 we ^used a !l\ady'bird 'book# . / 5 9 49 5370 1 1 a 11 with ^just !p/ictures# - / 5 9 49 5380 1 1 b 11 what the ^ones they 'have in !\England# . / 5 9 49 5390 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 49 5400 1 1 b 11 ^g\osh# / 5 9 49 5410 1 1(a 11 and [j] you ^p/oint to 'it# . / 5 9 49 5420 1 1 a 11 and ^th\ey 'learn it /off# - / 5 9 49 5430 1 1 a 11 ^b\all# - . / 5 9 49 5440 1 1 a 11 "^what c/olour 'is it# - / 5 9 49 5450 1 1 a 11 a ^r\ed 'ball# . / 5 9 49 5460 1 1 a 11 and it was ^quite !!sw\eet 'actually# / 5 9 50 5470 1 1 a 11 ^watching _these 'young !ch\ildren# . / 5 9 50 5480 1 1 a 11 [@] ^l\earning th/is# - / 5 9 50 5490 1 1 a 11 and I ^got 'quite !f\ond of them /actually# / 5 9 50 5500 1 1 b 11 ^{y\es} I 'think you :m\ust 'do {^r\eally#}# / 5 9 50 5510 1 2 b 11 es^pecially if you`re ((in)) [?] 'close 'prox\imity/ 5 9 50 5510 1 1 b 11 with 'them# / 5 9 50 5520 1 1 b 11 *^all the !t\ime#* / 5 9 50 5530 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]# . / 5 9 50 5540 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* - / 5 9 50 5550 1 1 b 11 ((but . did you)) ^have your 'after'noons fr\ee# / 5 9 51 5560 1 2 b 12 be^cause they . ((they)) ^only 'teach in the / 5 9 51 5560 1 1 b 12 :m\ornings 'over 'there d/on`t they# / 5 9 51 5570 1 1 a 11 well ^n\o# / 5 9 51 5580 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 5 9 51 5590 1 2 a 12 ^I ^I only had :half an 'hour`s 'teaching in the / 5 9 51 5590 1 1 a 12 :m\orning# / 5 9 51 5600 1 1 b 11 ^that was !\all# / 5 9 51 5610 1 1 b 11 *for the* ^whole !d\ay# / 5 9 51 5620 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 51 5630 1 1 a 11 ^y\eah# / 5 9 51 5640 1 1 a 11 [@] ^n\o# / 5 9 51 5650 1 1 a 11 ^in the "!m\orning# . / 5 9 51 5660 1 1 a 11 and then ^four h\ours# / 5 9 51 5670 1 2 a 11 from ^four o`'clock to :eight o`'clock in the / 5 9 51 5670 1 1 a 11 \evening# - / 5 9 52 5680 1 1 b 11 oh ^that`s 'funny h/ours# / 5 9 52 5690 1 1 b 11 ^\isn`t *it#* / 5 9 52 5700 1 1 a 11 *^y\es* {it ^\is#}# / 5 9 52 5710 1 1 a 11 but ^very 'very n\ice# . / 5 9 52 5720 1 1 b 11 be^cause you had the [h] !hot 'afternoon :\off# / 5 9 52 5730 1 1 b 11 *. ^r/eally#* / 5 9 52 5740 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* . / 5 9 52 5750 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 52 5760 1 1(b 11 so *you could ^do what you !l\iked#* / 5 9 52 5770 1 1 a 11 *and with "^th\at sort of* 'thing# / 5 9 52 5780 1 1 a 11 ^if you`re 'not 'teaching till t\/en# / 5 9 52 5790 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 9 53 5800 1 1(a 11 ((it)) ^means you can g/et up 'quite 'early and# . / 5 9 53 5810 1 1 a 11 and ^get 'on with your !\own 'work# / 5 9 53 5820 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 53 5830 1 1 b 11 ^qu\ite# / 5 9 53 5840 1 1(a 11 which I en^j\oy((ed))# - / 5 9 53 5850 1 1 a 12 but "^how long . ^how long did "y\ou sp/end# . / 5 9 53 5860 1 1 a 11 be^tween 'going to . 'uni!v\ersity# / 5 9 53 5870 1 1 a 11 and ^secre!t\arial 'college# . / 5 9 53 5880 1 1 b 11 ^just the 'summer va!c\ation {^r\/eally#}# / 5 9 53 5890 1 1 a 11 and ^what did you 'do in th\at# - / 5 9 53 5900 1 1 b 11 [da:] I ^really "c/an`t - rem\ember# / 5 9 53 5910 1 1 b 11 un^less I [r] !th\/ink a'bout it# - . / 5 9 54 5920 1 1 b 11 ^what w\as 'that# - / 5 9 54 5930 1 2 b 11 I re^member 'going on 'holiday to :P\aris for a / 5 9 54 5930 1 1 b 11 'while# / 5 9 54 5940 1 1 b 11 with some ^fr\iends# . / 5 9 54 5950 1 1 b 11 ^that was 'fairly sh\ort# - / 5 9 54 5960 1 1 b 11 and ^th\en# . / 5 9 54 5970 1 1 b 11 just ^coming !h\ome and# . / 5 9 54 5980 1 1 b 11 ^semi-col!l\/apsing and# - / 5 9 54 5990 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 54 6000 1 1(b 11 ^do*ing* !n\othing at {^\all#}# / 5 9 54 6010 1 1 b 11 ^just being a !really ex:h\austed# . / 5 9 54 6020 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 54 6030 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 55 6040 1 1 b 11 I`m ^sure I 'didn`t do :\anything# . / 5 9 55 6050 1 1 b 11 ^pr\operly# - / 5 9 55 6060 1 1 b 11 ^just didn`t !f\eel 'like it# - / 5 9 55 6070 1 1 a 11 ^no it`s a fan!tastic f\eeling of# / 5 9 55 6080 1 1 a 11 of ^being !c\ut {a^dr\ift#}# / 5 9 55 6090 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# . / 5 9 55 6100 1 1 b 11 ex^\actly#* / 5 9 55 6110 1 1(a 11 *[a:f] after ^f\inals#* / 5 9 55 6120 1 1 a 11 [n] I ^really r\elished it _actually# - / 5 9 55 6130 1 1 a 11 ^as I !s\ay# / 5 9 55 6140 1 1 a 11 I [w] I ^worked on the :b\oats# - / 5 9 55 6150 1 1 a 11 (sighs) and . ^earned a "v/\ast a'mount# / 5 9 55 6160 1 1 a 11 on the ^b\oats# / 5 9 55 6170 1 1 a 11 be^c=ause# . / 5 9 56 6180 1 1 a 11 I was ^working 'through the !n\ights 'some'times# ./ 5 9 56 6190 1 1 a 11 and of ^course you get !\over'time# - / 5 9 56 6200 1 1 b 11 oh ^y\es {of *^c\ourse#}#* / 5 9 56 6210 1 1(a 11 *and* some ^s\ometimes# / 5 9 56 6220 1 1 a 11 ^I was cl\ocking 'up a'bout# / 5 9 56 6230 1 1 a 11 ^th\irty-'five# / 5 9 56 6240 1 1 a 11 ^forty 'quid a !!w\eek# - / 5 9 56 6250 1 1 a 21 ^and **[@:m]** / 5 9 56 6260 1 1 b 11 **on ^top** of your 'normal :s\/alary# - - / 5 9 56 6270 1 1 a 11 [@:] ^n\/o# / 5 9 56 6280 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# . / 5 9 56 6290 1 1 a 11 *^that was 'just for the w\eek#* / 5 9 57 6300 1 1 b 11 *^((that was)) in ad!d\i*tion# . / 5 9 57 6310 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# - / 5 9 57 6320 1 1 a 11 and ^th=en# . / 5 9 57 6330 1 2 a 11 [@] ^just be'fore I 'went to . to - [@] 'out to / 5 9 57 6330 1 1 a 11 :\Italy# . / 5 9 57 6340 1 1 a 11 I ^th\ought# / 5 9 57 6350 1 1 a 11 well I`d ^better 'see what`s 'going 'on in L\ondon#/ 5 9 57 6360 1 1 a 11 so "^Valerie and 'I 'went :\up# / 5 9 57 6370 1 1 a 11 ^h\ired a# . / 5 9 57 6380 1 1 a 11 a ^pl\ace# / 5 9 57 6390 1 1 a 11 for a^bout _ten d\ays# / 5 9 57 6400 1 1 a 11 and ^sp\ent# . / 5 9 57 6410 2 1 a 22 ( - voices sigh) the *^most [e]* / 5 9 57 6420 1 1 b 11 *^\all of 'it#* . / 5 9 57 6410 1 1(a 12 [@:] ^s\oul# . / 5 9 57 6430 1 1 a 11 ^br\eaking# / 5 9 57 6440 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) a^mount *of :m\oney#* / 5 9 58 6450 1 1 a 11 it was ^\awful# / 5 9 58 6460 1 1 a 11 **it ^really :w\as#** / 5 9 58 6470 1 2 b 11 *( - . laughs)* **^if you 'don`t** 'think a'bout it/ 5 9 58 6470 1 1 b 11 'at the :t\ime# / 5 9 58 6480 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not *so !b\ad#* / 5 9 58 6490 1 1 b 11 it`s just ^\after'wards# / 5 9 58 6500 1 1 b 21 **((that you ^get))** / 5 9 58 6510 1 1 a 11 *^n\o# / 5 9 58 6520 1 1 a 11 ^n\o#* - / 5 9 58 6530 1 1 a 11 **I ^p\aid** for it :{^\afterwards#}# / 5 9 58 6540 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 58 6550 1 1(a 11 *because* in my ^first 'few 'months in in _\Italy# / 5 9 58 6560 1 1 a 11 were ^really !p\overty-*_stricken#* / 5 9 58 6570 1 1 b 11 *((2 sylls)) ^y\es#* / 5 9 58 6580 1 1 b 11 ^that`s the tr\ou**ble#** / 5 9 59 6590 1 1 a 11 **they** ^really w/\ere# / 5 9 59 6600 1 1 b 11 I just ^felt I 'couldn`t w/\ork# - / 5 9 59 6610 1 1 b 11 ^in that summer vac/ation# / 5 9 59 6620 1 2 b 11 because I ^thought it would be my _last !l\ong / 5 9 59 6620 1 1 b 11 'one# . / 5 9 59 6630 1 1 b 11 so I ^made the !m\ost of it# / 5 9 59 6640 1 2 b 12 I ^can`t . ((I`m)) ^sure I 'didn`t do 'anything / 5 9 59 6640 1 1 b 12 'really con!str\uctive# / 5 9 59 6650 1 1 b 20 *but [@]* / 5 9 59 6660 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* - . / 5 9 59 6670 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# - / 5 9 59 6680 1 1 a 11 I ^had a 'lot of ":pr\essure 'on me# / 5 9 59 6690 1 1 a 11 to [@:m] - ^get a !j\ob and 'every'thing# / 5 9 59 6700 1 1 a 11 but I just "^couldn`t im:\agine# / 5 9 59 6710 1 1 a 11 ^what I was !going to !d\o# - / 5 9 60 6720 1 1 a 11 I ^had my !\own 'work# / 5 9 60 6730 1 1 a 11 ((and)) "^that was just :one c\onstant# / 5 9 60 6740 1 1 a 11 ^which I - would re!l\y on# / 5 9 60 6750 1 1 a 11 ^thick and th\/in# . / 5 9 60 6760 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - - / 5 9 60 6770 1 1 a 11 but a^p\art from 'that# . / 5 9 60 6780 1 1 a 11 ^how to 'earn the :{m\oney} to :d\o it# - / 5 9 60 6790 1 1 a 20 [@:m] - / 5 9 60 6800 1 1 b 11 well you ^had !more :\open to you# / 5 9 60 6810 1 1 b 11 as a ^b\oy# / 5 9 60 6820 1 1 b 11 ^r\/eally# . / 5 9 60 6830 1 1 b 20 [m] - / 5 9 60 6840 1 1 a 11 ^yes I sup!{p\ose} s\o# / 5 9 60 6850 1 1 a 21 but ^I *[@:m]* / 5 9 61 6860 1 1 b 11 ((*but* you don`t)) ^have to "stick in an !\office#/ 5 9 61 6870 1 1 b 11 ^if you !don`t !!w\ant to# - - / 5 9 61 6880 1 1 a 11 ^[/m]# / 5 9 61 6890 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# . / 5 9 61 6900 1 1 a 11 ^what else can you !d\o I m=ean# . / 5 9 61 6910 1 1 a 11 ^\I 'think /actually# / 5 9 61 6920 1 1 a 11 "^g/\irls# - / 5 9 61 6930 1 1 a 11 have ^j\ust as 'much oppor'tunity# . / 5 9 61 6940 1 1 b 11 well ^n\owadays# / 5 9 61 6950 1 1 b 11 I [sp] "^y\es# / 5 9 61 6960 1 1 b 11 I sup^pose that`s !tr\ue ((but))# - / 5 9 61 6970 1 1 a 11 I ^m\ean# . / 5 9 61 6980 1 1 a 11 ^any "girl could have 'gone out to th/at 'job# - - / 5 9 62 6990 1 1 b 11 you ^mean in !\Italy# . / 5 9 62 7000 1 1 a 11 ^y/\es# / 5 9 62 7010 1 2 b 12 ^\I was 'thinking _more [i?] . of ^t\emporary / 5 9 62 7010 1 1 b 12 'jobs# / 5 9 62 7020 1 1 b 11 in ^in va!c\ations# - / 5 9 62 7030 1 1 b 11 ^r\/eally# . / 5 9 62 7040 1 1 b 20 ((than)) - . / 5 9 62 7050 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 62 7060 1 2 a 11 I sup^pose {g\irls} 'don`t 'get so 'much / 5 9 62 7060 1 1 a 11 :m\/oney# - / 5 9 62 7070 1 1 a 11 [@:m] . oh well they "^c\/an# . / 5 9 62 7080 1 1 a 11 I mean ^I`ve 'heard of j\obs# - / 5 9 62 7090 1 1 a 11 ((where there were)) ^people 'selling cigar\ettes# / 5 9 62 7100 1 1 a 11 [?@:] ^s\/alesman'ship# / 5 9 63 7110 1 1 a 11 and ^all 'sorts *of !strange !th\ings#* / 5 9 63 7120 1 1 b 11 *((^y\es# / 5 9 63 7130 1 1 b 11 ^that`s tr=ue#))* . / 5 9 63 7140 1 1(a 11 and they ^seem to 'earn a f/\ortune# - - - / 5 9 63 7150 1 1 a 12 but I but ^I [@n] ^I en!j\oyed 'uni'versity# / 5 9 63 7160 1 1 a 11 [d @:m] . be"^c\ause of 'these va'cation *'jobs# . / 5 9 63 7170 1 1 a 11 I mean I did ^all 'sorts of 'funny th\ings#* / 5 9 63 7180 1 1 b 11 *oh ^y\es# / 5 9 63 7190 1 1 b 11 ^so did \I# / 5 9 63 7200 1 1 b 11 I ^wouldn`t have 'been with:\out them#* . / 5 9 63 7210 1 1 b 20 *[m]* / 5 9 64 7220 1 1(a 11 *^th/ings* that# - / 5 9 64 7230 1 1 a 11 [@] . I ^th\ink# . / 5 9 64 7240 1 1 a 11 would have "^br\oken 'me# / 5 9 64 7250 1 2 a 11 if I`d ^had to _do them for _any _length of / 5 9 64 7250 1 1 a 11 !t\ime# - . / 5 9 64 7260 1 1 a 11 but [@m] . were ^very !n\ice# / 5 9 64 7270 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 9 64 7280 1 1(a 11 for the ^time I was !d\oing them# / 5 9 64 7290 1 1 b 11 ((well they`re)) ^so re!l\axing# / 5 9 64 7300 1 1 b 11 and I ^think you 'get a ":k\ick out of it# / 5 9 64 7310 1 1 b 11 as ^w\ell# / 5 9 64 7320 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# . / 5 9 64 7330 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 9 65 7340 1 1 b 11 *^I was a* "!t\ea 'lady# / 5 9 65 7350 1 1 b 11 for ^\one vac/ation# / 5 9 65 7360 1 1 b 11 it was **^very** !f\unny# / 5 9 65 7370 1 1 a 11 **^w/ere you#** / 5 9 65 7380 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 65 7390 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 5 9 65 7400 2 1 a 22 *"^Val*erie / 5 9 65 7410 1 1 b 21 *^((1 syll))* / 5 9 65 7400 1 1(a 12 ^V\alerie# / 5 9 65 7420 1 1 a 11 was a ^tea 'lady at [@:m - @] . Le!f\evres# - / 5 9 65 7430 1 1 a 11 in *^W\indlebury#* / 5 9 65 7440 1 1 b 11 *in "^W\indle*bury# - / 5 9 66 7450 1 1 a 11 and ^that was 'really :\awful it *s/ounded#* / 5 9 66 7460 1 1 b 20 (*-* - laughs) / 5 9 66 7470 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 66 7480 1 2 b 12 ( . laughs) no "^I was 'in a :f\irm . ^I was 'just / 5 9 66 7480 1 1 b 12 in a 'firm of sur:v\eyors you s/ee# / 5 9 66 7490 1 2 b 11 and I ^used to make their [?] !t\ea in the / 5 9 66 7490 1 1 b 11 m/orning# / 5 9 66 7500 1 1 b 11 "^t\ea in the 'afternoons# / 5 9 66 7510 1 1 b 11 and ^c\offee {in the ^m\ornings#}# / 5 9 66 7520 1 1 b 11 and ^wheel it r\ound# / 5 9 66 7530 1 1 b 11 on [d] ^tr\olley# . / 5 9 67 7540 1 1 a 11 ^/oh *y\es#* / 5 9 67 7550 1 1 b 11 *((and))* ^that was a'bout !\all# / 5 9 67 7560 1 1 b 11 I ^worked for !two 'hours a d\ay# . / 5 9 67 7570 1 1 b 11 and got ^paid the !full a!m\ount# . / 5 9 67 7580 1 1 a 11 "^r\eally# / 5 9 67 7590 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 9 67 7600 1 1 b 11 I ^used to wander _round _Russell :Squ\are# / 5 9 67 7610 1 1 b 11 [dh] ^most of the t/ime# . / 5 9 67 7620 1 1 a 11 ^/\oh# . / 5 9 67 7630 1 1 a 11 [@] so you ^know this 'area 'quite !w/\ell# / 5 9 67 7640 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 67 7650 1 2 b 11 it was ^just . 'off !M\/onta'gue 'Street / 5 9 67 7650 1 1 b 11 'somewhere# . / 5 9 68 7660 1 1 a 11 ^/\oh# - / 5 9 68 7670 1 1 a 11 [@] . ^y/\ou must have 'been# - / 5 9 68 7680 1 2 a 11 a^round 'when - !Faber and !F\aber {were ^st\ill in/ 5 9 68 7680 1 1 a 11 that 'place#}# - / 5 9 68 7690 1 1 a 11 you know ^twenty-'four :Russell _Squ\/are# / 5 9 68 7700 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 68 7710 1 1 b 11 that`s ^r/ight# . / 5 9 68 7720 1 1 a 11 [@] . ^what did it _look 'like !th\en# / 5 9 68 7730 1 1 a 11 because [n] ^now they`ve 'all moved :\out# / 5 9 68 7740 1 1 a 11 and ^moved to a _different !pl=ace# . / 5 9 69 7750 1 2 b 12 ((do you ^know I`m not [?] I`m)) - - ^don`t think / 5 9 69 7750 1 1 b 12 'I can r/eally rem\ember# / 5 9 69 7760 1 1 b 11 ^very cl/\early# - / 5 9 69 7770 1 1 a 11 I *was ^p\assing 'there the 'other* d/ay# - / 5 9 69 7780 1 1(b 11 *it`s ^such a 'long 'time a:g\o#* / 5 9 69 7790 1 1(a 12 and ^I [?u?u] ^there were some !b\uilders 'in it# / 5 9 69 7800 1 1 a 11 and I I . I was "^t\empted# / 5 9 69 7810 1 1 a 11 to ^go and !\ask them# . / 5 9 69 7820 1 1 a 11 [d] ^if I could !go \in# / 5 9 69 7830 1 1 a 11 and ^have a _look a!r\ound# / 5 9 69 7840 1 1 a 11 cos ((of)) course ^\Eliot 'worked 'there# . / 5 9 70 7850 1 1 b 11 where "^\are they 'moved# . / 5 9 70 7860 1 1 b 11 ^where have they _moved to !n\ow# / 5 9 70 7870 1 1 a 11 ^into !Qu\een 'Street# . / 5 9 70 7880 1 1 b 11 *which ^=is#* / 5 9 70 7890 1 1(a 11 *they`ve ^got a !big* 'modern bl\ock# . / 5 9 70 7900 1 1 a 11 it`s ^s\omewhere a'round 'there# / 5 9 70 7910 1 1 a 11 I`m ^not 'quite :s\ure 'where# - - - / 5 9 70 7920 1 1 a 20 but - / 5 9 70 7930 1 1 b 11 is it ^Gr\eat 'Queen _Street# - / 5 9 70 7940 1 1 a 11 ((yes)) it ^m\ay be# - / 5 9 71 7950 1 1 b 11 because ^that`s 'off !H\olborn# - / 5 9 71 7960 1 1 b 11 ^s\omewhere# . / 5 9 71 7970 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 71 7980 1 1 b 11 near ^Covent G\arden# - / 5 9 71 7990 1 1 a 11 [@:] ^n\o# / 5 9 71 8000 1 1 a 11 I ^think it`s !nearer to 'Russell Squ\are# / 5 9 71 8010 1 1 b 11 because ((there are)) a ^lot of "p\ublishers# / 5 9 71 8020 1 1 b 11 round ^th\at 'area# / 5 9 71 8030 1 1 b 11 ^\aren`t there# / 5 9 71 8040 1 1 b 11 The ^Bodley :H\ead# / 5 9 71 8050 1 1 b 20 and . / 5 9 72 8060 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 72 8070 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 72 8080 1 1 a 11 ^yes !th\ousands# - - - / 5 9 72 8090 1 1 a 11 it`s it`s a ^very "r\ich# . / 5 9 72 8100 1 1 a 11 ^area of *!t\own#* . / 5 9 72 8110 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* . / 5 9 72 8120 1 1 b 11 ^\/Odhams# / 5 9 72 8130 2 1 b 21 with their ^six 'blocks of - / 5 9 72 8140 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 72 8130 1 1(b 11 :h\ouses# . / 5 9 72 8150 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - - - / 5 9 72 8160 1 1 a 11 but - - when^ever I p\ass these pl/aces# / 5 9 72 8170 1 1 a 11 I ^m=ean# . / 5 9 72 8180 1 1 a 11 I ^think 'Faber and :F\aber# / 5 9 72 8190 1 1 a 11 as a ^publishing *h/ouse#* - / 5 9 72 8200 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 9 73 8210 1 1(a 11 is ^more re!sp\onsible# / 5 9 73 8220 1 1 a 11 than . than ^m\ost 'actually# / 5 9 73 8230 1 1 a 11 they they they`ve ^got a !good l\ist# . / 5 9 73 8240 1 1 b 11 oh ^yes they h/\ave# . / 5 9 73 8250 1 1 a 11 of ^th\ings# / 5 9 73 8260 1 1 a 11 that I ^can`t be!l\ieve# / 5 9 73 8270 1 1 a 12 ^much had [mei] had ^made 'much :m\oney# - / 5 9 73 8280 1 1 a 11 ^at the !\outset# / 5 9 73 8290 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 73 8300 1 1 b 11 have you ^read any 'Wilson :H\arris# . / 5 9 73 8310 1 1 a 11 ^n\/o# / 5 9 73 8320 1 1 b 11 ^h\e`s 'published by _Faber and _F/aber and# . / 5 9 73 8330 1 1 b 11 [dh] *in my ^l/ast* y\ear# / 5 9 74 8340 1 1 a 11 *^what does he wr\ite#* . / 5 9 74 8350 1 1 b 11 "^Carrib\ean 'litera'ture# - - / 5 9 74 8360 1 1 b 11 the [?] a ^c\ourse was# / 5 9 74 8370 1 1 b 11 be^gun at !B\ank# / 5 9 74 8380 1 1 a 11 ^/oh y\es# / 5 9 74 8390 1 1 a 11 ^{th\at was started} *by 'Johnnie !J\ones#* / 5 9 74 8400 1 1 b 11 *((4 sylls))* ^y\es# / 5 9 74 8410 1 1 b 11 and ^Wenklin !Sm\eet# / 5 9 74 8420 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 74 8430 1 1 b 11 in ^Carri'bean and 'African !l\iterature# / 5 9 74 8440 1 1 a 11 ^/\oh# / 5 9 74 8450 1 1 b 11 ^I didn`t 'do *it my!s\/elf#* / 5 9 75 8460 1 1 a 11 *there`s a ^full* !c\ourse now /is there# . / 5 9 75 8470 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 75 8480 1 2 b 11 I ^think it`s '[?]even be'come a [?] a :m/\ain - / 5 9 75 8480 1 1 b 11 _option# / 5 9 75 8490 2 1 b 21 ^this was a . 'PB\W . / 5 9 75 8500 1 1 a 11 ^oh y\es# . / 5 9 75 8490 1 1(b 11 {^c\ourse#}# . / 5 9 75 8510 1 2 b 12 and ^then there was a [?] it was ^finally [?] / 5 9 75 8510 1 1 b 12 ['ino:greitid] into the :f\inals# / 5 9 75 8520 1 1 b 11 ^brought ((it)) into the !f\inals# - / 5 9 75 8530 1 1 b 11 but . my ^fr\iend# / 5 9 75 8540 1 1 b 11 sort of ^did 'her - 'long vac :\essay# - / 5 9 75 8550 1 1 b 11 on ^Wilson !H\/arris# . / 5 9 75 8560 1 1 b 11 and she ^got in 'such a !st\ate a'bout it# . / 5 9 76 8570 1 1 b 11 ^\I de_cided# / 5 9 76 8580 1 1 b 11 ^not to !read him for a'bout 'three *!y\ears# - / 5 9 76 8590 1 1 b 20 ( - laughs)* / 5 9 76 8600 1 1 a 20 *( - - laughs)* / 5 9 76 8610 1 1 b 11 I just ^wondered if !y\ou 'had# . / 5 9 76 8620 1 1 b 11 *((but - ^[\mhm]#))* / 5 9 76 8630 1 1 a 11 *^n/o n\o# / 5 9 76 8640 1 1 a 11 I ^haven`t even h/\eard* of him# - / 5 9 76 8650 1 1 a 11 no ^Johnnie !J\ones# / 5 9 76 8660 1 2 a 12 [w@] was ^always 'very f\ond of [@m] - ^Carri!b\ean/ 5 9 76 8660 1 1 a 12 'litera'ture# / 5 9 76 8670 1 1 b 11 ^th\at`s 'right# / 5 9 76 8680 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 76 8690 1 2 a 12 and ^did a l/ot . he ^edited _several !b\ooks / 5 9 76 8690 1 1 a 12 'actually# / 5 9 77 8700 1 1 a 11 I`ve ^seen his !n\ame a'round# - - / 5 9 77 8710 1 1 a 20 **((2 sylls))** / 5 9 77 8720 1 1 b 11 **^and** 'Ronald H\othfield# / 5 9 77 8730 1 1 b 11 as ^w\ell# . / 5 9 77 8740 1 1 a 11 ^\oh 'yes# / 5 9 77 8750 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 77 8760 1 2 b 11 *but* ^he went 'out to ((the)) :West 'Indies / 5 9 77 8760 1 1 b 11 :\anyway 'in the **/end#** / 5 9 77 8770 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** - - - / 5 9 77 8780 1 2 a 12 ^no there were some some ^good and !lively / 5 9 77 8780 1 1 a 12 p\eople# - / 5 9 77 8790 1 1 a 11 at ^B/ank# - - / 5 9 77 8800 1 1 a 11 but ^on the :\other _hand# - . / 5 9 77 8810 1 2 a 11 there were ^{s\ome 'people} who were 'just / 5 9 77 8810 1 1 a 11 !st\arting# - / 5 9 78 8820 1 1 a 11 and - ^some of !th\eir 'lectures# / 5 9 78 8830 1 1 a 11 ^weren`t too g\ood# . / 5 9 78 8840 1 1 b 11 do you ^think it was an ad!v\antage# / 5 9 78 8850 1 1 b 11 to ^have a 'young :st\aff# . / 5 9 78 8860 1 1 b 11 ^looking !b\ack on it# / 5 9 78 8870 1 1 b 11 I *^think it was a !good i!d\ea#* / 5 9 78 8880 1 1 a 11 *^I 'think !s\o 'actual_ly#* - / 5 9 78 8890 1 1 a 11 "^some of them 'weren`t 'too :h\ot# / 5 9 78 8900 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 5 9 78 8910 1 1 a 12 **I ^mean** . for "^\instance# / 5 9 78 8920 1 1 a 11 [li] ^listening to !D\olo'mite# / 5 9 79 8930 1 2 a 11 I ^don`t know if you 'ever {w\ent} to :D\olomite`s / 5 9 79 8930 1 1 a 11 'lectures# / 5 9 79 8940 1 1 a 11 on ^Wh\it*man#* / 5 9 79 8950 1 1 b 11 *well* ^they were 'more like !!s\ermons# / 5 9 79 8960 1 1 b 11 his *^l\ectures# / 5 9 79 8970 1 1 b 11 he just ^p\ounded#* / 5 9 79 8980 1 1 a 12 *^oh [?] "^r\/eally#* . / 5 9 79 8990 1 1 a 11 I ^I f\ound# / 5 9 79 9000 1 2 a 11 it was ^just like _listening to _Whitman / 5 9 79 9000 1 1 a 11 him!s\elf# . / 5 9 79 9010 1 1 a 11 it was [@] oh ^b\eautiful# / 5 9 79 9020 1 1 a 11 ^oh fant\astic# / 5 9 79 9030 1 1 a 11 and *that`s "^/all it* w\as# . / 5 9 79 9040 1 1 a 21 **^not ((a)) 'critical [@pri:sh i]** / 5 9 80 9050 1 1 b 11 *(laughs) ^y\eah#* / 5 9 80 9060 1 2 b 11 but ^you **don`t like 'Whitman :\anyway** {^d\o / 5 9 80 9060 1 1 b 11 you#}# / 5 9 80 9070 1 1 b 11 I re^member 'you . +:s\aying 'so#+ / 5 9 80 9080 1 1 a 11 +"^n\o# / 5 9 80 9090 1 1 a 11 ^but I+ :m=ean# - / 5 9 80 9100 1 1 a 12 ^if . I`m !going to . [@] I ^need s\omeone# . / 5 9 80 9110 1 1 a 11 who`s ^got a !proper 'critical *m\ind# / 5 9 80 9120 1 1 a 11 to ^d\eal with it#* . / 5 9 80 9130 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# - / 5 9 80 9140 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]#* / 5 9 80 9150 1 1(a 11 ^and . and _give a [?] . d/ecent appr\aisal 'of it#/ 5 9 80 9160 1 1 a 11 but [@] . "^D\olo'mite :{^d\idn`t#}# - / 5 9 80 9170 1 1 a 11 and actually ^V\alerie# / 5 9 81 9180 1 1 a 11 [w] was . ^Dolo'mite`s [tju @m] tu!t\ee# - / 5 9 81 9190 1 1 a 12 ^and . [@:m] - ^sh\e used to write# / 5 9 81 9200 1 1 a 11 ^really good :\essays# - / 5 9 81 9210 1 1 a 11 and [?@] - (( (laughs) )) ^h\e would 'always 'take#/ 5 9 81 9220 1 1 a 11 this ^rather ado:l\escent ap'proach to them# - / 5 9 81 9230 1 1 a 11 [@] which [w@] . ^\I 'thought# / 5 9 81 9240 1 1 a 11 was a a ^p\ity# - / 5 9 81 9250 1 1 b 11 I`m sur^pr\ised# / 5 9 81 9260 1 1 b 12 I ^never 'actually :h=ad him . as a ^t\each*er#* / 5 9 82 9270 1 1 a 12 *^no* I ^\I never 'had him# / 5 9 82 9280 1 1 a 11 ^\either but **[@]#** / 5 9 82 9290 1 2 b 11 **but** ^I thought 'he was sup'posed to be 'quite / 5 9 82 9290 1 1 b 11 g\ood# / 5 9 82 9300 1 2 b 11 [@] I ^think I only 'went to 'one of his / 5 9 82 9300 1 1 b 11 :l\ectures# . / 5 9 82 9310 2 1 b 22 *but "^just* / 5 9 82 9320 1 1 a 21 *well I ^think he* / 5 9 82 9310 1 1(b 12 I ^h\eard# . / 5 9 82 9330 2 1 b 21 that he was . / 5 9 82 9340 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# / 5 9 82 9350 1 1 a 11 he`s ^one of the wh\izz 'kids# / 5 9 82 9360 1 1 a 20 but [@m]** / 5 9 82 9330 1 1(b 11 **re^g\arded 'as# / 5 9 82 9370 1 1 b 11 ^{qu\ite} g\ood ((yeah))#** - - / 5 9 83 9380 1 1 a 11 [@] . be^tween the !tw\o of them# / 5 9 83 9390 1 1 a 11 there was [@m] ^D\olomite# . / 5 9 83 9400 1 1 a 20 and - / 5 9 83 9410 1 1 b 11 ^Mick Gr\/ew# . / 5 9 83 9420 1 1 a 11 ^Mick *Gr\ew#* / 5 9 83 9430 1 1(b 11 *did* ^quite a 'lot for A'merican l/iterature# . / 5 9 83 9440 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 83 9450 1 1 b 11 and ^somebody \else# / 5 9 83 9460 1 1 b 21 ^[ki:? @m] . / 5 9 83 9470 1 1 a 11 ^and you *'know that* :P\atrick# / 5 9 84 9480 1 1 b 11 *"^F\eltmin#* . / 5 9 84 9490 1 1 b 11 "^D\ave 'Feltmin# . / 5 9 84 9500 1 1 a 11 ^oh y\es# . / 5 9 84 9510 1 1 a 11 did **^did you {g\o} to h\is** 'lectures# / 5 9 84 9520 1 1 a 11 they were ^very dr\y and# / 5 9 84 9530 1 1 a 11 ^very a:m\using# . / 5 9 84 9540 1 1 b 12 **^he was ^he was '((really n\ice))#** - - / 5 9 84 9550 1 1 b 11 oh he had a ^really "c\austic# / 5 9 84 9560 1 1 b 11 ^sense of *!h\umour /actually#* / 5 9 84 9570 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 5 9 84 9580 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 5 9 84 9590 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 5 9 84 9600 1 1(b 11 **^he was 'my** . :s\uper'visor for 'one t/erm# / 5 9 85 9610 1 1 b 11 I ^thought he was 'really g\ood# . / 5 9 85 9620 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 85 9630 1 1(b 11 and ^terribly *h\elpful#* / 5 9 85 9640 1 2 a 11 *it`s like* when "^he 'had to . '[@m . @] / 5 9 85 9640 1 1 a 11 !l\ecture# . / 5 9 85 9650 1 1 a 11 on ^th\ings 'like# . / 5 9 85 9660 1 1 a 11 [?@] . *^P\ericles#* / 5 9 85 9670 1 1 a 11 ^Prince of !T\yre# / 5 9 85 9680 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 9 85 9690 1 1 b 11 **oh ^n\o#** / 5 9 85 9700 1 1(a 11 **and The** ^Winter`s !T\ale# / 5 9 85 9710 1 1 a 11 he said . ^as \usual# . / 5 9 85 9720 1 2 a 11 ^I`ve been 'given the !Pope`s 'nose of / 5 9 85 9720 1 1 a 11 Sh\akespeare# / 5 9 86 9730 1 2 a 11 ( - - laughs) which I . ^that`s the \only re'mark / 5 9 86 9730 1 1 a 11 *I re'member ((at the m/oment#))* / 5 9 86 9740 1 2 b 11 *yes he ^always used* to 'make 'these . / 5 9 86 9740 1 1 b 11 _st\atements# / 5 9 86 9750 1 1 b 11 ((with)) ^terribly _flat **f\ace#** / 5 9 86 9760 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** . / 5 9 86 9770 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 86 9780 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 86 9790 1 1 b 11 not ^giving a !th\ing a*'way#* / 5 9 86 9800 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* . / 5 9 86 9810 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 86 9820 1 1 a 11 ((that)) [?@] ^they **were !very am\using#** / 5 9 87 9830 1 1 b 12 **I ^never used to** . I ^never "kn\ew# / 5 9 87 9840 1 2 b 11 ^whether to 'take him :s\eriously or *'not / 5 9 87 9840 1 1 b 11 /actually# / 5 9 87 9850 1 1 b 20 ((2 to 3 sylls))* / 5 9 87 9860 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]# . / 5 9 87 9870 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* . / 5 9 87 9880 1 1 a 11 no ^I enj\oyed them# - / 5 9 87 9890 1 1 a 11 ^did you 'know that 'Patrick P\urdie# / 5 9 87 9900 1 1 a 11 was at [@m - @] . at ^uni!v\ersity# / 5 9 87 9910 1 1 a 11 with ^Mick !Gr\ew# . / 5 9 87 9920 1 1 a 11 and they were ^close fr\iends# . / 5 9 87 9930 1 1 b 11 ^which uni:v\ersity# - / 5 9 87 9940 1 1 a 11 ^h\ere# . / 5 9 87 9950 1 1 a 11 Uni^versity *!C\ollege#* / 5 9 88 9960 1 1 b 11 *oh ^when* he 'did his M"!\A# . / 5 9 88 9970 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# . / 5 9 88 9980 1 1 b 11 [m@?] I ^m=ean# / 5 9 88 9990 1 2 a 12 they did an ^undergr\aduate [?@] . they were / 5 9 88 9990 1 1 a 12 ^under_gr\aduates to_gether# . / 5 9 8810000 1 2 b 11 oh I ^know that 'Mick 'Grew did his M:\A in / 5 9 8810000 1 1 b 11 _London# / 5 9 8810010 1 2 b 11 but I ^didn`t 'know he was *an* 'under:gr\aduate / 5 9 8810010 1 1 b 11 'here# - / 5 9 8810020 1 1 b 11 at ^U**_\/C#** / 5 9 8810030 1 1 a 11 *^[/m]#* / 5 9 8810040 1 1 a 11 **oh** ^/\I under'stood that he _did his# . / 5 9 8910050 1 1 a 11 ^MA or 'Ph\/D# . / 5 9 8910060 1 1 a 11 if he - is it ^D/octor 'Grew# - - / 5 9 8910070 1 1 a 20 *((1 syll))* / 5 9 8910080 1 1 b 11 well *^he* was an :M'A when !\I 'had 'him# - / 5 9 8910090 1 1 a 11 *^\oh#* / 5 9 8910100 1 2 b 12 *he* ^might be . [@u @] he`s a^way in A**!m\erica / 5 9 8910100 1 1 b 12 {at the ^m\oment#}#** / 5 9 8910110 1 1 a 11 **well he ^went to Am\er**ica# - / 5 9 8910120 1 1 b 11 *^th\at`s 'right# / 5 9 8910130 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 5 9 8910140 1 2(a 11 *and ((I)) ^think* he did [i] his 'further 'degrees/ 5 9 8910140 1 1(a 11 th\ere# / 5 9 9010150 1 1 b 11 I`ve ^probably 'got a bit **:m\uddled#** / 5 9 9010160 1 2 a 13 **but they were ^[an]** they were ^[and@] / 5 9 9010160 1 1 a 13 ^under!gr\aduates 'here *to'gether#* / 5 9 9010170 1 1 b 11 *I ^liked* him 'very :m\uch# / 5 9 9010180 1 1 b 11 ^he was my !s\upervisor# / 5 9 9010190 1 1 a 11 *^w/as he#* / 5 9 9010200 1 1(b 11 *for my* ^long vac **!\essay {^y\es#}#** / 5 9 9010210 1 1 a 11 **oh I I I ^didn`t !kn\ow** him 'that 'well# - . / 5 9 9110220 1 1 b 11 [n] he was ^very *h\elpful {as ^w\ell#}#* / 5 9 9110230 1 1 a 11 *but ^of* the tw\o# / 5 9 9110240 1 1 a 11 ^he 'seemed [@] :much the "b\etter# / 5 9 9110250 1 1 a 11 ((and more)) and more "^cr\itical **'lecturer#** / 5 9 9110260 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 5 9 9110270 1 1 b 11 he had a ^s\olid ap'proa[sh]# - / 5 9 9110280 1 1 b 11 *as ^w\ell#* / 5 9 9110290 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* - - - / 5 9 9110300 1 1 a 12 ^but [@m] - - ^doing lingu\istics# / 5 9 9110310 1 1 a 11 a^part from those **l\ectures** I 'gave# / 5 9 9210320 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 5 9 9210330 1 2(a 12 it ^takes you !\out of 'this [@m] . ^out of the / 5 9 9210330 1 1(a 12 l\iterary 'scene {at ^\all#}# / 5 9 9210340 1 1 a 11 [@] - ^quite a b\it# . / 5 9 9210350 1 2 b 12 [i] ^almost . it ^must 'also 'throw some !l\ight on/ 5 9 9210350 1 1 b 12 it 'though# - / 5 9 9210360 1 1 a 21 *"^[@:]* / 5 9 9210370 1 2 b 11 *because* "^I find ((that)) 'myself 'totally cut / 5 9 9210370 1 1 b 11 !\off# . / 5 9 9210380 1 1 b 11 because ^everybody`s 'talking lingu\istics# / 5 9 9210390 1 1 b 11 and ^I really 'think this is \awful# / 5 9 9310400 1 1 b 11 I ^don`t know a 'thing a!b\out it# - / 5 9 9310410 1 2 a 11 well of course I I [@] ^\I didn`t 'know anything / 5 9 9310410 1 1 a 11 ab/out it# / 5 9 9310420 1 1 a 11 ^\either# / 5 9 9310430 1 1 a 11 but [@m] - - when I *^f\/irst 'came#* / 5 9 9310440 1 2 b 11 *but you`ve ^obviously* 'got yourself / 5 9 9310440 1 1 b 11 :\interested# - / 5 9 9310450 1 1 a 11 [@] "^y\es# . / 5 9 9310460 1 2 a 11 [@m] - I I be^lieve in 'letting 'oneself . "have [?/ 5 9 9310460 1 1 a 11 @] - . "!h\/aving to be 'interes'ted# / 5 9 9310470 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 9410480 1 1(a 11 [f@rin] I "^h\ad to become /interested# / 5 9 9410490 1 1 a 11 ^in . [@m] . lingu\istics# / 5 9 9410500 2 2 a 21 in ^such a 'way as I ((could)) I *'I* could 'get up/ 5 9 9410500 2 1 a 21 'interest / 5 9 9410510 1 1 b 20 *[m]* / 5 9 9410500 1 1(a 11 to 'do the 'M:\A# - / 5 9 9410520 1 1 a 12 but . [@] there ^have [bi] ^h\ave been# / 5 9 9410530 1 1 a 11 sort of ^\efforts# . / 5 9 9410540 1 1 a 11 ^on the _part of s\/ome# / 5 9 9410550 1 1 a 11 to [@m] . com^bine l\iterature# . / 5 9 9410560 1 1 a 11 and lin^gu\istics# . / 5 9 9410570 1 1 a 11 and ^quite fr\/ankly# . / 5 9 9410580 1 1 a 11 the re^s\ults# . / 5 9 9410590 1 1 a 11 I ^don`t think are 'very in!sp\iring# / 5 9 9510600 1 1 b 11 ^don`t you _think it w/\orks# - / 5 9 9510610 1 1 a 20 [n] - ( . snorts) - . / 5 9 9510620 1 1 b 21 but ^from *the 'point of 'view of* / 5 9 9510630 1 2 a 11 *I ^don`t think they 'really* have 'anything "new / 5 9 9510630 1 1 a 11 to s\ay# - / 5 9 9510640 1 1 a 11 [@] I ^read \one 'book# . / 5 9 9510650 1 1 a 11 [@] - well we`ll ^leave which 'one it w\as# / 5 9 9510660 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 5 9 9510670 1 1(a 11 and . ^r\eally# / 5 9 9510680 1 1 a 11 it ^didn`t 'tell me !anything n\ew# . / 5 9 9610690 1 1 a 11 at ^\all# / 5 9 9610700 1 2 a 11 ((as a)) ^matter of 'fact it was 'rather / 5 9 9610700 1 1 a 11 !b\oring# . / 5 9 9610710 1 2 b 12 you ^don`t think it h\elps ((from [?])) . ^judging / 5 9 9610710 1 1 b 12 a _book from its _sty:l\istic 'point of 'view# . / 5 9 9610720 1 1 a 12 [@m] . ^to an ex^t/\ent# / 5 9 9610730 1 1 a 11 I I I I ^f\ind# . / 5 9 9610740 1 1 a 20 [@m] - - / 5 9 9610750 1 1 b 11 in the ^str\ucture# - / 5 9 9610760 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 5 9 9610770 1 1 a 11 ^to an ext\ent# / 5 9 9610780 1 1 a 11 [m m] *^not a l\ot#* / 5 9 9610790 1 1 b 11 *but you ^don`t think it`s !n\ecess*ary# - / 5 9 9710800 1 1 a 11 ^[=@: i?]# . / 5 9 9710810 1 1 a 11 I ^wouldn`t have 'said it was "\unnecessary# / 5 9 9710820 1 1 b 11 ^[/m]# / 5 9 9710830 1 2(a 11 - [@:m] - - but it was ^funny _going to this / 5 9 9710830 1 1(a 11 !s\eminar# - / 5 9 9710840 1 1 a 11 ^on . _on . E M !Forster`s M\aurice# . / 5 9 9710850 1 1 b 11 oh you ^w\ent to 'that# / 5 9 9710860 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 9710870 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 9710880 1 1 b 11 *was it* suc^c/essful# - / 5 9 9710890 1 1 a 11 ^y\/es# . / 5 9 9710900 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 9710910 1 1 a 11 [th@] some ^very 'interesting 'points were m\ade# ./ 5 9 9810920 1 1 a 11 but the ^whole 'point of the s\eminar 'was that# / 5 9 9810930 1 2 a 11 I ^don`t think 'any'body 'thought it was a / 5 9 9810930 1 1 a 11 'par:ticularly 'great b\ook# . / 5 9 9810940 1 1 b 11 ^n\o# . / 5 9 9810950 1 1 b 11 ^qu\ite# / 5 9 9810960 1 1 b 11 it was ^very \early# . / 5 9 9810970 1 1 a 21 *[m] ^but but* / 5 9 9810980 1 1 b 11 *did you* ^r\ead it 'in the /end# . / 5 9 9810990 1 1 a 11 ^y\es I {^d\id#}# / 5 9 9811000 1 2 a 12 I ^read it bef\ore you can ^read it in a 'in a / 5 9 9811000 1 1 a 12 :s\itting# / 5 9 9811010 1 1 a 11 if if you if you ^sit *d/own# / 5 9 9811020 1 1 a 20 ((2 sylls))* / 5 9 9911030 1 1 b 11 *((if you ^really)) 'sit d\own* and# - / 5 9 9911040 1 1 a 11 ^and [@m] - . !I f\ound# . / 5 9 9911050 1 1 a 11 the ^only 'thing that g\ot me a'bout this# . / 5 9 9911060 1 1 a 11 ^this [@:] - _s\/emi'nar 'was that# . / 5 9 9911070 1 1 a 11 ^none of them 'thought it was a 'great :b\/ook# - / 5 9 9911080 1 1 a 11 but they were ^all t\alking# . / 5 9 9911090 1 1 a 11 on ^such a "!d\etailed# . / 5 9 9911100 1 1 a 11 [@] ^l\evel# . / 5 9 9911110 1 2 a 11 they weren`t ^talking on [s] a a "!g\eneral / 5 9 9911110 1 1 a 11 *e'nough* l/evel# . / 5 9 9911120 1 1 b 11 *^[/\m]#* / 5 9 9911130 1 1(a 11 and "^nothing 'they "s/\aid# . / 5 9 9911140 1 1 a 11 ^w\/ell# - / 5 9 9911150 1 1 a 11 [@] ^put it :th\is 'way# - / 5 9 10011160 1 2 a 11 [@] . ^everything 'they 'said could be :quite / 5 9 10011160 1 1 a 11 !tr\/ue# . / 5 9 10011170 1 1 a 11 and ^yet it could !still re'main a :great b\ook# - / 5 9 10011180 1 2 a 12 and ^I I I was . I ^found it !d\ifficult to 'get / 5 9 10011180 1 1 a 12 'get {the ^point _\over ((that))#}# / 5 9 10011190 2 1 b 22 you ^mean they((`ve)) [?] / 5 9 10011200 1 1 a 21 *I I ^felt they 'should be !speaking 'on a :more* / 5 9 10011190 1 2(b 12 *((the ap^proach)) wasn`t 'really {cr\itical}* / 5 9 10011190 1 1(b 12 en/\ough# . / 5 9 10111210 1 1 a 11 [@] they ^were being v/ery cr\itical# / 5 9 10111220 1 2 a 11 ^on the !level ((in)) which on 'which they were / 5 9 10111220 1 1 a 11 !t\alking# - / 5 9 10111230 1 2 a 11 but . they ^should`ve been _talking 'on a 'on a / 5 9 10111230 1 1 a 11 'more !!g\eneral 'level# - / 5 9 10111240 1 2 b 11 ^did they . 'look at . 'Forster`s 'work as a / 5 9 10111240 1 1 b 11 wh\ole# . / 5 9 10111250 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 5 9 10111260 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 10111270 1 1(b 11 *and* ^view !M\aurice# . / 5 9 10111280 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 5 9 10111290 1 1(b 11 **^in** the !l\ight of it# / 5 9 10211300 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 10211310 1 1 a 11 they al^l\ied it 'with# / 5 9 10211320 1 1 a 11 [@m] . with the the ^\other 'novels# / 5 9 10211330 1 1 a 11 ^Howard`s \End# - / 5 9 10211340 1 1 a 11 ^only *conn\ect {^you rem\ember#}#* / 5 9 10211350 1 1 b 11 *which is the ^only _one* I !l\ike ((/actually#)) / 5 9 10211360 1 1 a 20 **(laughs)** / 5 9 10211370 1 1 b 11 **(laughs) ^y\es#** / 5 9 10211380 1 1 a 11 ^do you rem\ember 'that# / 5 9 10211390 1 1 b 11 ^\oh# . / 5 9 10211400 1 1 b 11 it was the "^first thing I h\eard# / 5 9 10211410 1 1 b 11 when I ^got to univ\ersity# / 5 9 10311420 1 1 a 11 yeah ^y\es# / 5 9 10311430 1 1 a 11 *^only conn\ect# / 5 9 10311440 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 5 9 10311450 1 1(b 11 *^William P\inner# / 5 9 10311460 1 1 b 11 ((and his))* ^only corr\ect# / 5 9 10311470 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - . / 5 9 10311480 1 2 a 12 but [@m] - it`s com^plete [?] it`s ^\interesting / 5 9 10311480 1 1 a 12 _nov*el#* . / 5 9 10311490 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 5 9 10311500 1 1(a 11 but I ^don`t th\ink# . / 5 9 10311510 1 1 a 11 [i] it`s ^\anything# . / 5 9 10311520 1 1 a 11 ^g=ot# / 5 9 10311530 1 1 a 11 (([eni])) ^got 'anything !n\ear the 'texture# / 5 9 10311540 1 1 a 11 of of say ^Howard`s !\End# / 5 9 10311550 1 1 a 21 ^which is . *((which is 1 syll))* / 5 9 10411560 1 1 b 11 *^w\as it 'his* 'first 'novel# . / 5 9 10411570 1 1 b 11 the ^first one he _actually wr\ote# . / 5 9 10411580 1 1 a 11 [@] ^n\o# / 5 9 10411590 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# - / 5 9 10411600 1 1 a 11 [@:m] . he was ^writing A 'Passage to :\India# / 5 9 10411610 1 1 a 11 at the ^same t\ime# - - - / 5 9 10411620 1 2 a 11 [@m] . and he he ^st\opped 'writing 'Passage to / 5 9 10411620 1 1 a 11 _India# / 5 9 10411630 1 2 a 11 [r@] . and [@m] . ^stopped off to 'write . [@] / 5 9 10411630 1 1 a 11 M\aurice# - - / 5 9 10411640 1 1 a 11 ^\anyway# / 5 9 10411650 1 1 a 20 we [w@] . / 5 9 10411660 1 1 b 11 oh . it was ^much 'later than I !th\ought# / 5 9 10411670 1 1 b 21 I ^always 'got the im:pr\ession it was . / 5 9 10511680 1 2 a 11 I ^think it was 'nineteen fift\een that he 'wrote / 5 9 10511680 1 1 a 11 it# - / 5 9 10511690 1 1 a 12 ^and . ^can you re_member the d\ate# / 5 9 10511700 1 1 a 11 of ^Howard`s *\End#* / 5 9 10511710 1 1 b 11 *no I`m* "^terribly **bad at :d\/ates#** / 5 9 10511720 1 1 a 12 **I ^think it was** . *I ^think it was bef\ore#* / 5 9 10511730 1 2 b 12 *^that was a bit [@:l]* that was be^{f\ore} the / 5 9 10511730 1 1 b 12 w\ar# / 5 9 10511740 1 1 b 11 ^w\asn`t it# / 5 9 10511750 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 5 9 10611760 1 2(b 11 **be**^cause . ((it)) was an Ed:wardian / 5 9 10611760 1 1(b 11 :s\etting# - - / 5 9 10611770 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 10611780 1 1 a 11 I ^think 'Howard`s \End# / 5 9 10611790 1 1 a 11 was be^fore !\any of 'these# - - - / 5 9 10611800 1 1 a 11 ^\anyway# / 5 9 10611810 1 1 a 11 we`ve ^got on to l\iterature# / 5 9 10611820 1 1 a 11 which you ^sw\ore# . / 5 9 10611830 1 1 b 11 *ex^\actly# . / 5 9 10611840 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 5 9 10611850 1 1 a 11 *we ^wouldn`t* t\alk a'bout# **- .** / 5 9 10611860 1 1 b 11 **it`s in^\evitable# / 5 9 10611870 1 1 b 11 I sup^p\/ose# / 5 9 10611880 1 1 b 11 ^really when you !th\/ink a'bout it#** - . / 5 9 10611890 1 1 b 20 ((but)) . - / 5 9 10711900 1 1 a 11 ^how did you 'get down to W\indlebury# . / 5 9 10711910 1 1 b 12 ^how [?] oh by ^tr\ain# . / 5 9 10711920 1 1 a 11 by ^tr\ain# / 5 9 10711930 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 10711940 1 2 b 11 ((it`s)) phe^nomenally ex!p\/ensive now / 5 9 10711940 1 1 b 11 *'actually#* / 5 9 10711950 1 1 a 11 *^y/\es#* . / 5 9 10711960 1 1 b 11 be^cause when I "!f\irst 'went# / 5 9 10711970 1 1 b 11 it was ^eighteen _bob week:end ret\urn# / 5 9 10711980 1 1 b 11 ((and)) it`s ^n\ow# . / 5 9 10711990 1 1 b 11 about ^one p\ound# / 5 9 10712000 1 1 b 11 ^seventy-f/\ive# . / 5 9 10712010 1 1 b 11 ((which is a)) con^siderable !j\ump# / 5 9 10812020 1 1 a 11 ^good *!h\eav*ens# / 5 9 10812030 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 5 9 10812040 1 1(a 11 ^y\es# - / 5 9 10812050 1 1 a 11 and it`s not ^nearly so much "f\un# / 5 9 10812060 1 1 a 11 ^going by tr\ain I 'think# / 5 9 10812070 2 1 a 21 be*cause* / 5 9 10812080 1 1 b 11 *^y\eah#* / 5 9 10812070 1 1(a 11 you ^always have a :f\eeling that# - / 5 9 10812090 1 2 a 11 ^this is 'where your :time in the 'country / 5 9 10812090 1 1 a 11 :st\/arts# / 5 9 10812100 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 5 9 10912110 1 1 a 11 and when you ^get 'back 'onto the 'train it :\ends#/ 5 9 10912120 1 1 a 11 ^\ie# / 5 9 10912130 1 1 a 11 [ww] ^r\eally 'what it a'mounts to is# / 5 9 10912140 1 2 a 11 when you ^get 'back on the :train at / 5 9 10912140 1 1 a 11 :W\indlebury# . / 5 9 10912150 1 1 a 11 you`re ^in L\ondon# / 5 9 10912160 1 1 a 20 *(( ( - - laughs) ))* / 5 9 10912170 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 5 9 10912180 1 1 b 11 that`s ^v\ery* 'true# / 5 9 10912190 1 1 b 11 it`s such a ^ghastly 'journey :\any*way#* / 5 9 10912200 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* . / 5 9 10912210 1 1 b 12 we ^came 'back 'by . from ^Windlebury \East# / 5 9 10912220 1 1 b 11 ^that`s the one that ":st\ops at# . / 5 9 10912230 1 1 b 11 *^every !st\ation#* / 5 9 11012240 1 1 a 11 *^oh G\od 'yes#* / 5 9 11012250 1 1 a 11 **^that`s the :w\orst 'one#** / 5 9 11012260 1 1 b 11 **^y\eah# / 5 9 11012270 1 1 b 11 ((it`s)) ^really** !\awful# / 5 9 11012280 1 1 b 20 *- ((but))* / 5 9 11012290 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#;.*; / 5 9 11012300 1 2 a 12 ^but [@m] . ^we found this 'going 'down to 'Dean / 5 9 11012300 1 1 a 12 :W\allis# / 5 9 11012310 1 1 a 11 I I ^really enj\oyed it# / 5 9 11012320 1 2 a 12 be^cause [dh d] ^Dean 'Wallis is 'where my / 5 9 11012320 1 1 a 12 :p\arents 'live# / 5 9 11012330 1 1 b 11 oh I ^s\ee# / 5 9 11012340 1 1 b 11 ^whereabouts !\is it# . / 5 9 11012350 1 1 a 11 ((it`s)) in ^D\orset# - / 5 9 11012360 1 1 a 12 [@m] ^just [?] it`s be^tween W\oburn [n]# / 5 9 11112370 1 1 a 11 and [@:] ^B\aychester# - - . / 5 9 11112380 1 1 a 12 ^and [@m] - - ^it was !n\ice# / 5 9 11112390 1 1 a 11 be^cause !once you were 'out of :L\on*don#* / 5 9 11112400 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 5 9 11112410 1 1(a 11 the ^journey [w] was !p\art of it# / 5 9 11112420 1 1 a 11 and it was ^very enj/\oyable# - / 5 9 11112430 1 2 a 11 ^but I`m !not looking 'forward to :going 'down / 5 9 11112430 1 1 a 11 there by tr\ain# / 5 9 11112440 1 1 a 11 [?@:] as you ^kn\ow# . / 5 9 11112450 1 1 a 11 the ^c\ar`s been {^st\olen#}# . / 5 9 11112460 1 1 b 11 oh ^yes of c\ourse# / 5 9 11112470 1 1 a 11 and we ^{r\eally} :m\iss it# / 510 1 10 1 1 a 11 it`s ^str\ange# / 510 1 20 1 1 a 11 ^having - [@] spent !m\ost of my 'life# / 510 1 30 1 1 a 11 ^on my ":\/own in 'fact# / 510 1 40 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 1 50 1 1 a 11 ^ever since I :c\ame to uni'versity# . / 510 1 60 2 1 a 21 *^and* . _not really :lived / 510 1 70 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 1 60 1 1(a 11 with :\/anybody# - / 510 1 80 1 2 a 11 it`s ^difficult . to im_agine how 'strange it is / 510 1 80 1 1 a 11 for _somebody who`s - !been m\/arried# / 510 1 90 1 1 a 11 and then ^suddenly 'finds himself :on his /own# - / 510 1 100 1 1 b 11 well I ^think it`s :\easier /actually# / 510 1 110 1 1 b 11 if ^you !h\ave been 'on your /own you 'see# / 510 1 120 2 1 b 21 I mean if *you`ve* / 510 2 130 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 2 120 1 1(b 11 . ^been on your 'own 'all the t\/ime# / 510 2 140 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# / 510 2 150 1 1(b 11 then you ^just don`t feel the !d\ifference# / 510 2 160 1 1 b 20 *but* / 510 2 170 1 1 a 11 *^oh* I don`t n/\otice it# / 510 2 180 1 1 a 11 ^n/\o# **.** / 510 2 190 2 1 a 22 it`s ^quite - in / 510 2 200 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 2 190 1 1(a 12 *^fact* there are !t\imes when I _think# . / 510 2 210 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 2 220 1 1(a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 2 230 1 1 a 11 if I ^ever !th\ink about# - / 510 2 240 1 1 a 11 ^living with :\anybody# - / 510 3 250 1 1 a 12 I ^think - you ^kn/ow# / 510 3 260 1 1 a 11 ^could I !t\olerate it# / 510 3 270 2 1 a 23 *^all the* . ^all the 'things / 510 3 280 1 1 b 20 *( . laughs)* / 510 3 270 1 1(a 13 that 'you you "^see people :d\oing# / 510 3 290 1 1 a 11 ((and)) you think ^ah !all very :w\ell# / 510 3 300 1 1 a 11 but to ^l\ive with it# . / 510 3 310 1 1 a 11 *((ha^b\itually#)) / 510 3 320 1 1 a 11 ^very in:t\olerant#* / 510 3 330 1 2 b 11 *well it`s ((it pre^sents)) a* tre:mendous / 510 3 330 1 1 b 11 :pr\/oblem 'actually# / 510 3 340 1 1 b 11 it ^really **:\is** a tre'mendous _prob*lem#* / 510 4 350 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 4 360 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 4 370 1 2(b 11 be^cause - [@:m] it`s !very . :difficult to / 510 4 370 1 1(b 11 a"!d\apt your'self# / 510 4 380 1 1 b 11 to an^other 'human b\eing# / 510 4 390 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# - / 510 4 400 1 1 a 11 ^yes I`m :s\ure it 'is# / 510 4 410 1 1 a 11 and of ^course the :longer you`re :\/on your 'own# / 510 4 420 1 1 a 11 the ^more _difficult it _seems to !b\e# / 510 4 430 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 4 440 1 2 a 11 ((always remember)) ^one of the _masters at / 510 4 440 1 1 a 11 :sch\ool# . / 510 4 450 1 1 a 11 ^he was . [@:m] . a !s\ingle _man# / 510 4 460 1 1 a 11 and he was "^g\etting 'married# - / 510 5 470 1 1 a 11 he was en^{g\aged} to this g\irl and# - / 510 5 480 1 1 a 11 ^he was _saying !h=ow# - / 510 5 490 1 1 a 11 it "^never oc:c\urred to him# / 510 5 500 1 1 a 11 un^til !she 'pointed \out# . / 510 5 510 1 2 a 12 that ^he . he ^used to get 'up in the m\orning / 510 5 510 1 1 a 12 and# - / 510 5 520 1 1 a 11 [@:] sort of ^trot 'round in his :sl\/ippers# / 510 5 530 1 2 a 11 and ^then when he 'came to . 'putting his sh/oes / 510 5 530 1 1 a 11 on# / 510 5 540 1 1 a 11 he`d ^take the sh/oe-trees 'out# / 510 5 550 1 1 a 11 and just ^stick them in his !sl\ippers you s/ee# / 510 5 560 1 1 a 11 and "^she 'looked up'on th/is# / 510 5 570 1 1 a 11 as "^absolutely hor!r\ific# / 510 5 580 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 6 590 2 1 a 21 *the the [dh]* / 510 6 600 1 1 b 20 *yes* / 510 6 590 1 1(a 11 ^absolute !bachelor :l\ife# / 510 6 610 1 1 a 11 and ac^c\used him of 'being# - / 510 6 620 1 1 a 11 ^almost 'antis\ocial I 'think# / 510 6 630 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 510 6 640 1 1 b 11 *^w\ell# / 510 6 650 1 1 b 11 that* ^{\is} 'one of the :pr\oblems# / 510 6 660 1 2 b 11 because in ^fact you :find you`ve got :lots of / 510 6 660 1 1 b 11 little h\/abits# / 510 6 670 1 1 b 11 *that* you ^just don`t :n\/otice# / 510 6 680 2 1 b 21 **and** which / 510 7 690 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 7 700 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 7 710 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 7 680 1 2(b 11 can be ^terribly !\irritating *for* an'other / 510 7 680 1 1(b 11 p/erson# / 510 7 720 1 1 b 11 I ^mean for **ex**_ample _flicking your n\ails# / 510 7 730 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 7 740 1 1 a 11 *((^that`s r/ight#)) . / 510 7 750 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 7 760 1 1(b 11 or ^something *like !th\at# / 510 7 770 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow#* / 510 7 780 1 1 b 11 or "^b\iting your 'nails# / 510 7 790 1 2 b 11 **I mean** there are ^so many :things that you / 510 7 790 1 1 b 11 :d\o# / 510 7 800 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 8 810 1 1(b 12 - ^and [@] - but I ^th\ink# / 510 8 820 1 1 b 11 you see I mean ^having 'had the exp\erience of# / 510 8 830 1 1 b 11 [@:m] ^being 'married be:f\ore# / 510 8 840 1 1 b 11 and then ^get*ting* 'married a:g\/ain# . / 510 8 850 2 1 b 21 **[@:]** / 510 8 860 1 1 a 11 *^[/m]#* / 510 8 870 1 1 a 11 **^[=m]#** / 510 8 850 1 1(b 11 I ^think in a _way I _learnt a _lot . fr\om it# / 510 8 880 1 1 a 11 ^oh I`m s\ure *you 'did# . / 510 8 890 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 8 900 1 1 b 11 *be^cause [@:m]* I((`ve)) !!f\orced my'self to# . / 510 8 910 1 1 b 11 a"^d\apt# . / 510 8 920 1 1 b 11 ^and to give !\in# / 510 8 930 1 1 b 11 in ^so many :c\ases# / 510 8 940 1 1 b 11 ^which are [?] ((the)) {sm\all} p\etty 'matters# / 510 8 950 2 1 b 21 but I *^think* that [@:m] / 510 9 960 1 1 a 11 *^[\mhm]#* / 510 9 950 1 1(b 11 - it`s im:portant to !d\o so# / 510 9 970 1 1 b 11 to be pre"^p\ared to 'do so you s/ee# - / 510 9 980 1 1 a 11 you ^haven`t s\een# / 510 9 990 1 1 a 11 For^get-me-not :L\/ane by any 'chance have you# / 510 9 1000 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 510 9 1010 1 1 a 11 ^{\oh} that`s :m\arvellous# / 510 9 1020 1 2 a 11 it`s a ^sort of - !((2 sylls)) ":very / 510 9 1020 1 1 a 11 \anti-'marriage {^\in a 'way}# / 510 9 1030 1 1 a 11 a ^t\errifying 'play# / 510 10 1040 1 1 a 11 but I ^I`ve 'seen it a :c\ouple of 'times# . / 510 10 1050 1 1 a 11 ^=and# . / 510 10 1060 1 1 a 11 ^this is a'bout [@m] - :oh a . a middle-\aged 'man#/ 510 10 1070 1 1 a 11 he`s ^f\orty_ish# / 510 10 1080 1 2 a 11 ^looking 'back on - [@:m] . his . !own 'life :at / 510 10 1080 1 1 a 11 h\ome# / 510 10 1090 1 1 a 11 and ^then his !m\arried 'life# - / 510 10 1100 1 1 a 11 *-* ^=and _it# - / 510 10 1110 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 10 1120 1 1(a 11 it`s ^done rather :cl\everly# / 510 10 1130 1 1 a 11 it`s ^done as a 'sort of [m] :fl\ashback# / 510 10 1140 1 1 a 11 only . ^he`s 'there 'all the !t\ime as it were# / 510 10 1150 1 1 a 11 ^w\atching it# / 510 10 1160 1 1 a 11 and ^c\ommenting# . / 510 10 1170 1 1 a 11 ^and his {re!l\ationship} with his :f\ather# - / 510 11 1180 1 1 a 11 ^=and# . / 510 11 1190 1 1 a 11 his ^c\omments# / 510 11 1200 1 1 a 11 on the re^l\ation_ship be_tween# . / 510 11 1210 1 1 a 11 his ^father and !m\other# - / 510 11 1220 1 1 a 11 and how "^he and his m\other# / 510 11 1230 1 1 a 11 are so ^\eager to 'get the man# / 510 11 1240 1 1 a 11 ^out of the !h\ouse# - / 510 11 1250 1 1 a 11 ^=and# - . / 510 11 1260 1 1 a 11 ^coming 'up to !d\ate# / 510 11 1270 1 1 a 11 with his ^\own 'marriage# - / 510 11 1280 1 1 a 11 ^wh=ere# / 510 11 1290 1 1 a 11 it`s ((a)) ^very :similar situ:\ation# / 510 11 1300 1 2 a 11 you ((sort of)) ^see . !almost :history re!p\eating/ 510 11 1300 1 1 a 11 it'self# - / 510 11 1310 1 1 a 12 and [i] ^it`s . you ^kn/ow# . / 510 11 1320 1 1 a 11 ^too 'truthful to be !c\omfortable on the wh/ole# ./ 510 12 1330 1 1 a 11 ^really :\is# - / 510 12 1340 1 1 a 20 *((syll))* / 510 12 1350 1 1 b 11 *well* to be ^quite h\/onest with 'you I 'think# / 510 12 1360 1 2 b 11 that if you`re ^not pre'pared to :m\ake all these ./ 510 12 1360 1 1 b 11 {^c\ompromises#}# / 510 12 1370 1 1 b 11 *and* ^to [@:m] . a!d\/apt your'self# / 510 12 1380 1 1 a 11 *^[/\m]#* / 510 12 1390 1 1 b 11 then you should ^never get !m\arried# / 510 12 1400 1 2 b 12 I mean *^that`s* ^that`s what it a:m\/ounts / 510 12 1400 1 1 b 12 **to#** - / 510 12 1410 1 1 a 11 *^n/\o#* / 510 12 1420 1 1 a 11 **^n/\o#** / 510 12 1430 1 1(b 11 ^=and# . / 510 12 1440 1 1 b 11 ^most people "!\aren`t# / 510 12 1450 1 2 b 11 I mean they ^don`t know what they`re _letting / 510 12 1450 1 1 b 11 themselves !\in for# / 510 13 1460 1 1 b 11 and I think it`s ^much w\orse# / 510 13 1470 1 1 b 11 to be ^m\arried# . / 510 13 1480 1 1 b 11 ^and unh/appy# . / 510 13 1490 1 1 b 11 than "^s\ingle [@] 'and un_happy# / 510 13 1500 1 1 a 11 ^oh I *a:gr\ee ((with that))# / 510 13 1510 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 13 1520 1 2(b 11 *because there are ^all 'sorts* of :other 'problems/ 510 13 1520 1 1(b 11 that [@] :go !!w\ith it# / 510 13 1530 1 1 b 11 I ^m=ean# / 510 13 1540 1 1 a 11 *^y\eah#* / 510 13 1550 1 1(b 11 *[@]* you can ^have !ch\/ildren for ex'ample# / 510 13 1560 1 2 b 12 which ^[mei] . ^means that you`ve 'got . these / 510 13 1560 1 1 b 12 :things on your m/ind# / 510 14 1570 1 1 b 11 on your *^c\on*science and s/o on# - / 510 14 1580 1 1 a 11 *^[/m]#* / 510 14 1590 1 2(b 11 [@:m] whereas at ^least if you`re :un'happy and / 510 14 1590 1 1(b 11 :s\/ingle# / 510 14 1600 1 1 b 11 you you ^haven`t got the ad"!ditional :b\/urden of#/ 510 14 1610 1 1 b 11 re^sponsi!b\ility# / 510 14 1620 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 14 1630 1 1 a 11 ^oh I a:gr\ee with you# . / 510 14 1640 1 2 a 11 it`s ^something that . ((well)) 'obviously you / 510 14 1640 1 1 a 11 :th\ink a'bout# / 510 14 1650 1 1 a 11 ^quite a l\ot# / 510 14 1660 1 1 a 11 sort of . ^should you or :sh\ouldn`t you# . / 510 14 1670 1 2 a 12 but [@] - it ^[i] it`s a ^terrifying sort of - - / 510 14 1670 1 1 a 12 :plunge to !!m\ake I th/ink# / 510 15 1680 1 2 a 11 ((it`s ^something)) !\I`ve never 'managed to d/o / 510 15 1680 1 1 a 11 yet# / 510 15 1690 1 1 a 11 ^\anyway# . / 510 15 1700 1 1 b 11 I ^think you`ve 'got to be :very s\ure# / 510 15 1710 1 1 b 11 and ^most people \/aren`t you 'know# / 510 15 1720 2 1 b 22 *((and be^cause))* _they . they`ve / 510 15 1730 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 510 15 1740 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 15 1720 1 1(b 12 ^got ro'mantic con'ceptions **of** m=arriage# / 510 15 1750 1 1 b 11 and they ^rush \into it# / 510 15 1760 2 1 b 21 and ^they 'don`t *th\ink* / 510 15 1770 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 16 1760 1 1(b 11 about it part/icularly# - - / 510 16 1780 1 2 b 11 and [@:] - ^I`ve 'certainly 'learnt a :l\ot by 'my / 510 16 1780 1 1 b 11 ex:perience# / 510 16 1790 2 1 b 21 *I* ^th\ink / 510 16 1800 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 16 1790 1 1(b 11 I have# / 510 16 1810 1 1 b 11 ^\/anyway# - . / 510 16 1820 1 1 a 11 ((well)) we ^see it a 'lot at :sch\ool# / 510 16 1830 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow ((sort of))# . / 510 16 1840 1 1 a 11 ^b\oys# . / 510 16 1850 1 1 a 11 ^in the s\ixth form# - / 510 16 1860 1 1 a 11 ^round a'bout 'seven'teen or 'eigh:t\een# . / 510 16 1870 1 1 a 11 and ^they be'come eng\aged# . / 510 16 1880 1 1 a 11 ^that`s what :happened about :two y\ears ago# / 510 16 1890 1 1 a 11 there was a ^whole sort of :r\ash# . / 510 17 1900 1 1 a 11 nearly ^everybody in the :s\ixth form# / 510 17 1910 1 1 a 11 ^seemed to be :getting en!g\aged and# . / 510 17 1920 1 1 a 11 ^th/en# . / 510 17 1930 1 1 a 11 ^one of 'two . [@:] :g\ot m/arried# - / 510 17 1940 1 1 a 11 ^one or 'two be'cause their w\ives or# . / 510 17 1950 1 1 a 11 ^f\/uture 'wives# / 510 17 1960 1 1 a 11 were ex^pecting b\abies# . / 510 17 1970 1 1 a 12 and ^so they . 'they`d ^g\ot to get m/arried# / 510 17 1980 1 1 a 11 *you* ^kn/ow# . / 510 17 1990 1 1 b 11 *^[/mhm]#* / 510 17 2000 1 1(a 11 ^=and [@]# - / 510 17 2010 1 1 a 11 [i] it was . "^very 'very :s\ad# / 510 17 2020 1 1 a 11 be^cause you could !s\ee them# - - / 510 17 2030 1 1 a 11 be^fore l\ong# / 510 17 2040 1 1 a 11 they`d be . ^pretty wr\etched# / 510 18 2050 1 1 a 11 and at each ^other`s thr\oats# . / 510 18 2060 1 1 a 11 ((but then)) you *^can`t* really :t\/ell people# / 510 18 2070 1 1 a 11 ^\anyway# / 510 18 2080 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 18 2090 1 1(a 11 I mean they ^don`t l\/isten# . / 510 18 2100 1 1 a 11 **((what^\ever you do#))** / 510 18 2110 1 1 b 11 ^no they **d/\on`t# / 510 18 2120 1 1 b 11 and ^that`s** the 'curious th\ing I# / 510 18 2130 1 2 b 11 I ^find that it`s !no good 'giving 'people ad:vice / 510 18 2130 1 1 b 11 at *\all#* / 510 18 2140 1 1 b 11 I ^mean they !don`t !l\isten to adv/ice# / 510 18 2150 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 510 18 2160 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 510 19 2170 1 1 b 11 ^=and# . / 510 19 2180 1 1 b 11 how^\ever 'much ex'perience you`ve _had# / 510 19 2190 1 1 b 11 they may **^l\isten#** / 510 19 2200 2 1 b 21 but they ^then . pro_ceed to do {ex"!\actly} / 510 19 2210 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 19 2220 1 1 a 11 *^y\eah#* / 510 19 2200 1 1(b 11 what they ":w\ant to *do*# / 510 19 2230 1 1 b 11 what they in^tended to 'do in the :f\/irst 'place# / 510 19 2240 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 19 2250 1 1 b 11 [@m] it`s a ^c\/urious thing 'that# / 510 19 2260 1 1 b 11 I ^m=ean# . / 510 19 2270 1 1 b 11 ^very 'often I 'think people :\ask for adv=ice# / 510 19 2280 1 2 b 11 ^not be'cause they 'want to ":t\/ake . your / 510 19 2280 1 1 b 11 ad'vice# / 510 20 2290 1 2 b 11 but ^simply be'cause they 'want to - [@:m] 'have a / 510 20 2290 1 1 b 11 :cl\earer i'dea# / 510 20 2300 1 1 b 11 about their ^own *[@:]* !preconceived :n\otions# / 510 20 2310 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 20 2320 1 1 a 11 ^that`s r/ight# / 510 20 2330 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 20 2340 1 1 b 11 **and** ^make things "!j\ell 'better# / 510 20 2350 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 20 2360 1 2 b 11 by ^listening to 'what 'somebody 'else 'has to / 510 20 2360 1 1 b 11 *s\ay#* / 510 20 2370 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 20 2380 1 1(b 11 and ^then you can _say well I`ll !still d\o# / 510 21 2390 1 1 b 11 what ^I in!t\ended to 'do# / 510 21 2400 1 1 b 11 in the ^f\irst place# / 510 21 2410 1 1 a 11 ^y\es [i i]# / 510 21 2420 1 1 a 11 it ^makes them :much more !r\igid# / 510 21 2430 1 1 a 11 ((cos)) I mean as *^soon* as you 'start s=aying# / 510 21 2440 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 21 2450 1 1(a 11 ^oh 'no _no n\o# / 510 21 2460 1 1 a 11 ^don`t get 'married :don`t get m/arried# . / 510 21 2470 1 1 a 11 ^they . !put 'up the b/arriers# / 510 21 2480 1 1 a 11 and say "^r\ight# / 510 21 2490 1 1 a 11 ( - laughs) they`re ^trying to !st\op us# / 510 21 2500 1 1 a 11 we`re ^going *to get m\arried# / 510 21 2510 1 1 a 11 ((you ^kn/ow#*)) / 510 22 2520 1 1 b 11 *^[/\m]# . / 510 22 2530 1 1 b 11 that`s ^\it# / 510 22 2540 1 1 b 11 ^y/\eah#* - / 510 22 2550 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 22 2560 1 1 a 12 ^and **^\I#** / 510 22 2570 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 510 22 2580 1 1 a 11 ^this par:t\icular _lot# / 510 22 2590 1 1 a 11 ^it`s . !v\ery 'sad# / 510 22 2600 1 1 a 11 you ^kn\/ow# / 510 22 2610 1 1 a 11 there was ^one b\oy# - / 510 22 2620 1 1 a 12 ^who . ^m\arried# / 510 22 2630 1 1 a 11 be"^cause his 'wife was ex'pecting a b/aby# / 510 22 2640 1 1 a 11 and ^then there was a misc\arriage# - / 510 22 2650 1 1 a 11 ^and . they were !m\arried# - / 510 22 2660 1 1 a 11 by ^this t/ime and# / 510 22 2670 1 2 a 11 ( - sighs) I mean you ^just 'feel as 'though that`s/ 510 22 2670 1 1 a 11 [@] such a !!t\errible {^st\art#}# / 510 22 2680 1 1 b 11 ^[/\m]# / 510 22 2690 1 1 b 11 *((I ^think it !\is#))* / 510 23 2700 1 1(a 11 *I mean con^sidering* they`re !only :seven:t\/een# / 510 23 2710 1 1 a 11 and they`re ^likely to 'be tog\ether# / 510 23 2720 1 1 a 12 for an^other [@:] ^what f/ifty# / 510 23 2730 1 1 a 11 ^sixty y\ears# / 510 23 2740 1 2 a 12 it`s ^quite . "^p\erfectly within the 'realms of . / 510 23 2740 1 1 a 12 {^possib\ility#}# - / 510 23 2750 1 1 a 11 un^l\ess the whole 'thing [shm] . :{^smashes \up#}#/ 510 23 2760 1 1 a 11 which is - *^l/ikely#* . / 510 23 2770 1 1 a 11 I ^think [i] 'it`s . wr\etched# . / 510 23 2780 2 1 a 21 ^really is / 510 23 2790 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 23 2780 1 1(a 11 :m\iserable# - - - / 510 24 2800 1 2 b 11 I ^think 'people 'ought to 'be . :better in:f\ormed/ 510 24 2800 1 1 b 11 about# / 510 24 2810 1 1 b 11 [w@] *^what* 'marriage en!t\ails# / 510 24 2820 2 1 b 21 **I** ^don`t / 510 24 2830 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 24 2840 1 1 a 11 **^y\eah#** / 510 24 2850 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 24 2820 1 1(b 11 'think they !\/are 'actually# / 510 24 2860 1 2 b 12 I mean *^there* there ^doesn`t 'seem to be / 510 24 2860 1 1 b 12 :anything in the 'edu'cational !pr\/ogramme# - / 510 24 2870 1 1 b 11 to "^sh\ow 'people# / 510 24 2880 1 1 b 11 I ^d\on`t *'mean#* . / 510 24 2890 1 1 b 11 you ^know say ":don`t 'get m/arried# / 510 24 2900 1 1 a 21 *^((no))* / 510 24 2910 1 1(b 11 but ^just sh\/ow them# / 510 24 2920 1 1 b 11 ^what it en!t\ails# / 510 25 2930 1 1 a 11 **^y\eah# / 510 25 2940 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 25 2950 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#** / 510 25 2960 1 1(b 11 **the ^day to _day !d\etails 'of it# / 510 25 2970 1 1 b 11 and ((then))** . that they ^have to be !s\ure# / 510 25 2980 1 1 b 11 that they should se^lect !c\arefully# / 510 25 2990 1 1 b 11 and that it`s ^n\ot# . / 510 25 3000 1 1 b 11 [@:m] ^just 'something :terribly . ro:m\antic and# / 510 25 3010 1 1 b 11 ^airy f/airy# / 510 25 3020 1 2 b 12 that ^there`s a a ^practical 'everyday !life to be / 510 25 3020 1 1 b 12 !l\ed# / 510 25 3030 1 1 b 11 and if you`re ^not - "\able# / 510 25 3040 1 1 b 11 and ^c\apable to# / 510 25 3050 1 1 b 11 of ^d\/oing 'that# / 510 25 3060 1 2 b 12 ^then you you ^shouldn`t go !\in for it *{at / 510 25 3060 1 1 b 12 ^\all#}#* / 510 26 3070 1 1 a 11 *^y\eah#* - - / 510 26 3080 1 1 b 11 and I ^think it {it !\is} an "!\art you know# / 510 26 3090 1 2 b 13 I ^think that !most 'people the ^thing is that / 510 26 3090 1 1 b 13 :[m@u] a ^lot of people :stick tog\ether# - / 510 26 3100 1 1 b 11 ^but it !d\oesn`t {^m\ean#}# / 510 26 3110 1 1 b 11 that their ^marriage _is a {suc!c\ess} at :\all# . / 510 26 3120 1 2 b 11 I mean [i] it ^may be con{v\ention} it 'may be / 510 26 3120 1 1 b 11 soc\iety for ex'ample# / 510 26 3130 1 2 b 11 that [@:m] ^put !pr\essure on them {to ^st\ay / 510 26 3130 1 1 b 11 together#}# / 510 26 3140 1 2 b 12 in the ^p\ast I mean ^that was !c\ertainly 'true / 510 26 3140 1 1 b 12 {^h\ere#}# / 510 27 3150 1 1 a 11 ^[/\m]# / 510 27 3160 1 1 b 11 and it`s ^certainly !true in !!C\yprus# / 510 27 3170 1 1 b 11 you ^kn=ow that# / 510 27 3180 1 1 b 11 [@:m] . di^vorce is :very "!r\are th/ere# - / 510 27 3190 1 2 b 11 but ^that doesn`t 'mean that the :marriages are / 510 27 3190 1 1 b 11 suc:c\essful# / 510 27 3200 1 1 b 11 they`re ^very _far !fr\om it# . / 510 27 3210 1 1 b 11 the ^people :just "!stick to:g\/ether# / 510 27 3220 1 1 b 11 be^cause they "!h\ave to# / 510 27 3230 1 1 b 11 because it`s ^socially 'unac:c\/eptable# / 510 27 3240 1 1 b 11 to be di^v\orced# - / 510 27 3250 1 2 b 11 [@:m] but in ^fact 'what 'sort of 'marriages do / 510 27 3250 1 1 b 11 they h\ave# / 510 28 3260 1 2 b 11 I mean ^very often [@:] . they :don`t get 'on 'well/ 510 28 3260 1 1 b 11 together at /all# . / 510 28 3270 1 1 b 11 they have "^n\othing in c/ommon# - / 510 28 3280 1 2 b 11 [@:m] the ^only thing they 'have in 'common is the / 510 28 3280 1 1 b 11 :children 'they`ve prod\/uced# / 510 28 3290 1 1 b 11 and ^very \often# / 510 28 3300 1 2 b 11 they`re ^not par'ticularly 'interested in {in / 510 28 3300 1 1 b 11 :th\ose} \either# - / 510 28 3310 1 2 a 11 ((I mean)) so ^\often they`re ((sort of)) . / 510 28 3310 1 1 a 11 {^r\eally#}# - / 510 28 3320 1 1 a 11 ^sources of !\argument {^\anyway#}# / 510 28 3330 1 1 a 11 ^ch/ildren# / 510 28 3340 1 1 a 11 ^\aren`t *they# / 510 29 3350 1 1 b 11 *^yes well !!y\es#* / 510 29 3360 1 1(a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 29 3370 1 1 a 11 the .* the ^one`s 'treating the 'children /one way#/ 510 29 3380 1 2 a 11 and then - [@:] the ^father comes 'in with _totally/ 510 29 3380 1 1 a 11 !d\ifferent i_deas# / 510 29 3390 1 2 a 11 and it`s as as ^much likely to be a 'source of / 510 29 3390 1 1 a 11 :\/argument# / 510 29 3400 1 1 a 11 as a ^source of pl/\easure# / 510 29 3410 1 1 a 11 in a ^l\/ot of 'cas*es#* / 510 29 3420 1 1 b 11 *well* es"^p\ecially# / 510 29 3430 1 1 b 11 if there`s ^no real a_greement in the *!m\arriage#*/ 510 29 3440 1 1 b 11 you ^kn=ow# / 510 29 3450 2 1 b 21 if there`s ^no **{r\eal}** / 510 30 3460 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 30 3470 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 30 3450 1 1(b 11 under:st\anding# / 510 30 3480 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 510 30 3490 1 3 b 12 ^it`s - it ^really _is a _great _problem and I / 510 30 3490 1 2 b 12 :think that :people should 'be - [@m] / 510 30 3490 1 1 b 12 en!!l\/ightened a'bout these *'things#* / 510 30 3500 2 1 b 23 I ^think it`s it`s ^part . ^p\art / 510 30 3510 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 30 3500 1 1(b 13 of the 'edu'cational :pr\/ogramme# / 510 30 3520 1 2 b 11 ^should be to !show 'people . **'what** it`s 'all / 510 30 3520 1 1 b 11 ab/out# / 510 31 3530 2 1 b 21 but I / 510 31 3540 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 31 3530 1 1(b 11 ^think the !tr\ouble is# / 510 31 3550 1 1 b 11 that a^gain . it de_mands "!tr\uth# . / 510 31 3560 1 1 b 11 you ^s=ee# . / 510 31 3570 1 1 b 11 to ^talk . "!h\onestly a'bout m=arriage# / 510 31 3580 1 2 b 11 I ^think you`ve 'got to be !very h\onest with / 510 31 3580 1 1 b 11 your_self# / 510 31 3590 2 1 b 22 and ^not *.* ^not 'many people are / 510 31 3600 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 31 3590 1 1(b 12 pre!p\ared to be# / 510 31 3610 1 1 b 11 be^cause . it !brings in their :p\/ersonal 'life# / 510 31 3620 1 1 b 11 ^even if they don`t 'mention them:s\elves# / 510 32 3630 2 1 b 21 *they* ^{f\eel} that :they 'are \implicated / 510 32 3640 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 32 3630 1 1(b 11 in 'some way you s/ee# . / 510 32 3650 1 1 b 20 *((and [@m]))* / 510 32 3660 1 1 a 11 well *it`s in^\ev*itably 'going to 'talk about# . / 510 32 3670 1 1 a 11 your ^own ex:p\/erience# . / 510 32 3680 1 1 a 11 [@] ^even if you`re !n\ot 'married# / 510 32 3690 1 2 a 11 you`re going to ^talk about 'people that you 'know / 510 32 3690 1 1 a 11 very w\ell# / 510 32 3700 1 1 a 11 and the ^m\arriages {you`ve ^s\een#}# . / 510 32 3710 1 1 a 11 ((sort of)) ^\operating# / 510 33 3720 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 33 3730 1 1(a 11 - [ae] ^and it !is a bit :d\ifficult to sort of# . / 510 33 3740 1 1 a 11 ^lay these :b\are# / 510 33 3750 1 1 a 12 in ^front of - ![@:m] a _class of ^wh\at# / 510 33 3760 1 1 a 11 ^sixt\een {seven^t\een year 'olds#}# / 510 33 3770 2 1 a 21 *or* "^y\ounger / 510 33 3780 1 1 b 11 *^oh !y\es#* / 510 33 3770 1 1(a 11 of 'course if# - / 510 33 3790 1 1 a 11 ^very /often# / 510 33 3800 1 1 a 11 if you`re - ^dealing in a !s\econdary 'school# / 510 33 3810 1 2 a 11 where they`re ^likely to !l\eave at 'fif'teen or / 510 33 3810 1 1 a 11 'sixt/een# . / 510 34 3820 1 2 b 11 ^but [@] !you`re 'teaching . [@:m] at a :gr\ammar / 510 34 3820 1 1 b 11 school# / 510 34 3830 1 1 b 11 ^\aren`t you# / 510 34 3840 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 34 3850 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 34 3860 1 2 b 11 *well* ^what do you 'think about :s\ex / 510 34 3860 1 1 b 11 edu'cation# . / 510 34 3870 1 3 b 12 ^do you 'think that [@ i] 'it [@] I ^mean . there`s/ 510 34 3870 1 2 b 12 _been a [?] a _great !h\ooha about *it* / 510 34 3870 1 1 b 12 {^r\ecently#} {^h\asn`t there#}# / 510 34 3880 2 1 b 21 and [@:m - @:] / 510 34 3890 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 34 3900 1 1 a 11 **^[/mhm]#** / 510 34 3880 1 1(b 11 about a ^f\ilm that was 'made and **s/o on#** . / 510 35 3910 1 1 b 12 I mean ^what ^what are y\our 'views 'on it# - / 510 35 3920 1 2 a 11 ^I 'find that - - with so :m\any of 'these / 510 35 3920 1 1 a 11 'problems# / 510 35 3930 1 1 a 11 ^m\arriage# / 510 35 3940 1 1 a 11 ^s\ex edu'cation# / 510 35 3950 1 2 a 11 as ^soon as you 'try and 'make it . a sort of / 510 35 3950 1 1 a 11 'formal l\esson# - . / 510 35 3960 1 1 a 11 the ^whole 'thing 'falls fl\at# - / 510 35 3970 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 35 3980 1 1 a 11 you ^kn\ow# / 510 35 3990 1 2 a 12 ^if you [s] 'have a - - a :period ^we used to 'have/ 510 35 3990 1 1 a 12 one 'called Dis!c\ussion 'Groups# - / 510 35 4000 1 1 a 11 ^and you were !l\anded with# - - / 510 35 4010 1 1 a 11 [n] ^tw\elve# / 510 36 4020 1 1 a 11 ^six'teen . b\oys# . / 510 36 4030 1 1 a 11 ^in a r\oom# . / 510 36 4040 1 2 a 11 and ^there you 'were you were sup:posed to / 510 36 4040 1 1 a 11 disc\uss# - / 510 36 4050 1 1 a 11 ^could be \anything# - - / 510 36 4060 1 1 a 11 ^b=ut# / 510 36 4070 1 1 a 11 ^it was so !d\ifficult# / 510 36 4080 1 1 a 11 it was ^so arti!f\icial# / 510 36 4090 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 36 4100 1 1 a 11 ^where=as# / 510 36 4110 1 1 a 11 ^teaching 'something like :\English of 'course# . / 510 36 4120 1 1 a 11 a ^l\ot of these 'subjects# / 510 36 4130 1 1 a 11 ^come up 'fairly n\aturally# - / 510 36 4140 1 1 a 11 ^and you can dis:c\uss them# . / 510 36 4150 1 1 a 11 ^in the !c\ontext of a cl/ass# . / 510 36 4160 1 1 a 11 "^wh\en they {a^r\ise#}# . / 510 37 4170 1 1 a 11 and ^\/usually 'then it be'comes# . / 510 37 4180 1 1 a 11 ^much more satis!f\actory# - - / 510 37 4190 1 1 a 11 *and you can ^\answer 'questions#* / 510 37 4200 1 1 b 11 I *I I ^quite a!gr\ee with 'that# / 510 37 4210 2 1 b 22 I mean* ^it`s a / 510 37 4220 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 37 4230 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 37 4210 1 2(b 12 it`s **it`s** a ^wide sort of . :{open-:\ended} / 510 37 4210 1 1(b 12 s\ubject /Eng*lish#* / 510 37 4240 1 1 b 11 ^\isn`t it# / 510 37 4250 1 1 b 11 but the **^tr\ouble** is# / 510 37 4260 2 1 b 21 it ^does de'pend / 510 37 4270 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 38 4260 1 1(b 11 on the !t\eacher# / 510 38 4280 1 1 b 11 because there ^are *'some t\eachers#* / 510 38 4290 1 1 a 11 *^oh en:t\irely#* / 510 38 4300 1 1 a 11 **^[=m]#** / 510 38 4310 1 1(b 11 who ^just . "!w\on`t# / 510 38 4320 1 1 b 11 I ^mean as !far **as** th\ey`re con_cerned that# / 510 38 4330 1 1 b 11 they`re they`re ^doing a t\ext# / 510 38 4340 1 1 b 11 you ^kn=ow# / 510 38 4350 1 2 b 12 I ^mean they`re . they ^may be :reading 'something / 510 38 4350 1 1 b 12 by Sh\akes*peare#* / 510 38 4360 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 38 4370 1 1(b 11 and ^that`s !!\it# / 510 38 4380 1 1 b 11 I [@:] there`s ^no !qu\estion# / 510 38 4390 1 1 b 11 of ex"^t\/ending it in any 'way# / 510 39 4400 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 510 39 4410 1 1 b 11 and ^\also# / 510 39 4420 1 2 b 11 they have their ^own [in] 'inhi!b\itions about / 510 39 4420 1 1 b 11 'talking about 'sex# / 510 39 4430 2 1 b 21 *I* mean they`re / 510 39 4440 1 1 a 11 *((of)) ^c\ourse#* / 510 39 4430 1 1(b 11 ^just not !fr\ank a'bout **it#** / 510 39 4450 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** . / 510 39 4460 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 510 39 4470 1 1 b 11 I ^m\ust say# / 510 39 4480 1 1 b 11 ^I !t\end to be# / 510 39 4490 1 1 b 12 I ^mean I you ^kn\ow# / 510 39 4500 1 1 b 11 I ^do 'talk :quite _\openly to my _pupils# / 510 39 4510 1 1 b 11 ^which is - a !little ":d\aring of _me# / 510 40 4520 1 2 b 11 because the ^situ'ation in 'Cyprus is !d\ifferent / 510 40 4520 1 1 b 11 from _here# / 510 40 4530 2 1 b 21 I ^mean *peop*le "!{\are a bit} ":n\arrow in 'that / 510 40 4540 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 40 4530 1 1(b 11 res'pect# / 510 40 4550 1 1 b 11 you ^kn\ow# / 510 40 4560 1 2 b 11 they ^don`t 'like people to :talk a'bout it :too / 510 40 4560 1 1 b 11 \openly# - / 510 40 4570 1 1 b 11 but I ^d\o# / 510 40 4580 1 1 b 11 because I ^think it`s im!p\ortant# / 510 40 4590 1 1 b 11 but . the ^trouble \is that# / 510 40 4600 1 1 b 11 [@m] ^that`s !not really 'system"!\atic# / 510 40 4610 1 1 b 11 in the ^sense that "!\/I do it# / 510 40 4620 2 1 b 22 but ^how many _people . *^how* / 510 41 4630 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 41 4620 1 1(b 12 many "!\other people 'do it you s/ee# / 510 41 4640 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 41 4650 1 1 a 12 [i] ^it`s ^it`s an e!n\ormous 'problem /actually# / 510 41 4660 1 2 a 11 be^cause . as !soon as you 'start to 'make - a a / 510 41 4660 1 1 a 11 :sp\ecial 'thing a'bout it# . / 510 41 4670 1 1 a 11 then im^m\ediately# - / 510 41 4680 1 1 a 11 I ^think you`re cre!ating the !wrong !\atmosphere# / 510 41 4690 1 1 a 11 ^specially for s\ex# / 510 41 4700 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 41 4710 1 1(a 11 be^cause . as !soon as it be'comes :sp\ecial# - / 510 42 4720 1 2 a 11 ^then it`s 'giving them in a 'sense the !wr\ong / 510 42 4720 1 1 a 11 'attitude# - / 510 42 4730 1 1 a 11 *you ^kn\ow# / 510 42 4740 1 1 a 21 ^this is 'something* / 510 42 4750 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# . / 510 42 4760 1 1 b 11 ^yes they`re !c\oncen*'trating 'on it# / 510 42 4770 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 42 4780 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 510 42 4790 1 2 a 11 ^this is 'something that we`ve !got to 'look at in / 510 42 4790 1 1 a 11 :a par'ticular w\ay# / 510 42 4800 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 42 4810 1 1 a 11 ^=or# / 510 42 4820 1 1 a 11 ^y\ou know# / 510 42 4830 1 1 a 11 ^it`s 'contro:v\ersial# / 510 43 4840 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 43 4850 1 1 a 11 where^\as# - / 510 43 4860 1 1 a 11 ^if it could be !t\aken# / 510 43 4870 1 1 a 11 ^as ((sort of)) - :part \of# - - / 510 43 4880 1 1 a 11 ^\ordinary dis'cussion# / 510 43 4890 1 1 a 11 or ^part of !l\ife if you l/ike# / 510 43 4900 1 1 a 11 ^makes it 'sound a 'bit p/ompous# . / 510 43 4910 1 1 b 20 *( . laughs)* / 510 43 4920 1 1(a 12 *^but [@]* . you ^kn\ow# / 510 43 4930 1 1 a 11 ^if it can be t=aken _as# . / 510 43 4940 1 2 a 11 just ^part of the :general - - :day to day / 510 43 4940 1 1 a 11 !n\orm# - . / 510 43 4950 1 1 a 11 ^then it`s _going to be !much !h\ealthier# . / 510 44 4960 1 2 a 11 but as ^soon as you 'start to 'make a :speci/ality / 510 44 4960 1 1 a 11 of it# . / 510 44 4970 1 1 a 11 ^either by ig":n\oring it# / 510 44 4980 1 1 a 11 ^or by par:ticularly dis:c\ussing it# - / 510 44 4990 1 2 a 11 I ^think you`re _going to cre_ate an un!n\atural . / 510 44 4990 1 1 a 11 'attitude to'wards it# / 510 44 5000 1 1 b 11 ^(([m])) I _think you !\are# . / 510 44 5010 1 1 a 11 it`s ^very \awkward# / 510 44 5020 1 1 a 11 *it`s* ^d\/ifficult 'mind you# / 510 44 5030 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 44 5040 1 1(a 11 with a ^class of th\irty-'odd# . / 510 44 5050 1 1 a 11 oc^casionally with the !s\econd 'form# . / 510 44 5060 1 1 a 11 you ^g=et# . / 510 44 5070 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 44 5080 1 1 a 12 well ^we`ll . ^we`ll . !have [@:m] . a deb\ate# . / 510 45 5090 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 45 5100 1 1(a 11 ^what do you 'want to t\alk a'bout# / 510 45 5110 1 1 a 11 ^and !this is s\omething# / 510 45 5120 1 1 a 11 I ^usually 'spend !one l\esson# / 510 45 5130 1 1 a 11 ar^ranging !what they 'want to t\alk a'bout# / 510 45 5140 1 2 a 11 and ^then . 'tell them to 'go away and :th\/ink / 510 45 5140 1 1 a 11 a'bout it# / 510 45 5150 1 2 a 11 and we . ^have the dis_cussion a !later . a _later / 510 45 5150 1 1 a 11 !l\esson# - / 510 45 5160 1 1 a 11 ^and !often en\ough# / 510 45 5170 1 1 a 11 ^round a'bout the s\econd 'form# / 510 45 5180 1 1 a 11 ^\oh# / 510 45 5190 1 1 a 11 ^sex be'fore m\arriage 'sir# / 510 46 5200 1 1 a 11 or just *^s\ex#* / 510 46 5210 1 1 b 11 *( . laughs)* **^[=m]#** / 510 46 5220 1 1(a 11 or ^s\ex in'struction# / 510 46 5230 1 1 a 11 or ^should **'sex** be 'taught in sch\ools# - / 510 46 5240 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# - / 510 46 5250 1 1 a 11 ^=and# . / 510 46 5260 1 1 a 11 I say ^all r/ight# / 510 46 5270 1 1 a 11 we`ll ^t/alk about it# . / 510 46 5280 1 1 a 11 ^=and# - / 510 46 5290 1 1 a 11 they ^don`t 'know . :what they`re 'going to :s\/ay#/ 510 46 5300 1 2 a 12 and they don`t ^r\/eally 'know 'what . [@m] - ^what/ 510 46 5300 1 1 a 12 they`re going to !talk about at !\all# . / 510 46 5310 1 2 a 11 ^but you`ve _got a !!whole lot of 'different / 510 46 5310 1 1 a 11 \attitudes 'there# . / 510 46 5320 1 1 a 11 ^you !kn\ow# . / 510 47 5330 1 1 a 11 as ^soon as it 'comes /up# / 510 47 5340 1 2 a 11 that there`s a^bout . !half a d\ozen 'little / 510 47 5340 1 1 a 11 'boys# . / 510 47 5350 1 2 a 11 who are per^haps - a 'little y\ounger than the / 510 47 5350 1 1 a 11 /others# . / 510 47 5360 1 1 a 11 or have ^come from 'different b\/ackgrounds# - / 510 47 5370 1 1 a 11 who "^{d\on`t} "w\ant to 'talk a'bout it# - / 510 47 5380 1 1 a 11 ^and who are !rather sh/y# / 510 47 5390 1 1 a 11 and a ^bit !fr\ightened 'of it# . / 510 47 5400 1 1 a 11 ^whereas you`ve got !\/other little 'boys# / 510 47 5410 1 1 a 11 *. ^who are* ( . laughs) de:cidedly ad:v\/enturous#/ 510 47 5420 1 1 b 20 *( - laughs)* / 510 48 5430 2 1(a 21 and ^probably know every !bit as much a'bout / 510 48 5440 1 1 b 20 **( - laughs)** / 510 48 5430 1 1(a 11 **it as :\I do#;.**;. / 510 48 5450 1 1 a 11 ^=and [@:]# - / 510 48 5460 1 1 a 11 you`ve ^got this {e!n\ormous} dis:p\arity# . / 510 48 5470 1 1 a 11 ^=and# - / 510 48 5480 1 1 a 11 it`s ^difficult to 'strike a :b\alance# - / 510 48 5490 1 1 a 11 be^cause in a s\ense# / 510 48 5500 1 2 a 11 if ^you 'talk . if you 'like as :fr\ankly _as / 510 48 5500 1 1 a 11 _[dhi:]# . / 510 48 5510 1 1 a 11 ^more !\open little 'boys ab/out it# - / 510 48 5520 1 1 a 11 ^then you`re . !{cl\osing} the :\others up# / 510 48 5530 1 1 a 11 ^even m\ore# / 510 48 5540 1 1 a 11 the ^sh\yer 'ones# *-* / 510 48 5550 2 1 a 22 ^are are ^getting _more / 510 49 5560 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 49 5550 1 1(a 12 and more !n\ervous a'bout it in 'fact# / 510 49 5570 1 1 a 11 and you`re cre^ating "!b\arriers 'for them# . / 510 49 5580 1 1 b 21 ^but *((syll))* / 510 49 5590 1 2 a 11 *((where*as)) ^if you 'talk about it - - 'on / 510 49 5590 1 1 a 11 :th\eir 'level# / 510 49 5600 1 1 a 11 or ^try and _help _th\em# - / 510 49 5610 1 2 a 11 ^then {the !\others are} are re:acting a!g\ainst / 510 49 5610 1 1 a 11 it# / 510 49 5620 1 1 a 11 it`s a . it`s . "^most pec\uliar# - - / 510 49 5630 1 1 b 11 but ^wouldn`t you s\ay that# / 510 49 5640 1 1 b 11 ^most y\oung 'people {^n\owadays are#}# / 510 50 5650 1 1 b 11 are ^much . more :\open# . / 510 50 5660 1 1 b 11 and re^l\axed about the 'whole . 'sex qu/estion# / 510 50 5670 1 1 b 11 than ^w\/e 'were# / 510 50 5680 2 1 b 22 I ^mean *[@:m]* I ^know that when / 510 50 5690 1 1 a 11 *^{\oh} y/\es#* / 510 50 5700 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 50 5680 1 1(b 12 !\I was at **'school#** / 510 50 5710 1 1 b 11 ^it was a a !very . h\ugger-'mugger *th/ing#* / 510 50 5720 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 50 5730 2 1 b 21 it ^wasn`t 'something that / 510 50 5740 1 1 a 11 *^[/\m]#* / 510 50 5750 1 1 a 11 **^[=m]#** / 510 50 5730 1 1(b 11 one :talked about 'very **much** at :\/all# . / 510 50 5760 1 1 b 11 ^\and# / 510 51 5770 1 1 b 11 [@m] one ^had tremendous "!f\ears a'bout *it#* / 510 51 5780 1 1 b 11 as ^w/ell# / 510 51 5790 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 51 5800 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 51 5810 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 51 5820 1 2(b 11 there **were** ^all !s\orts of 'fears a'bout / 510 51 5820 1 1(b 11 *one`s#* / 510 51 5830 1 1 b 11 one`s ^personal . :s\ex life# / 510 51 5840 1 1 b 11 ^such as it :w\/as# / 510 51 5850 1 1 b 11 you **^kn/ow#** / 510 51 5860 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 51 5870 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 51 5880 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^and !\also# / 510 51 5890 1 1 b 11 that there was ^no real :{c\ontact} with :g\irls# / 510 51 5900 1 1 b 11 because ^I 'went to a [@m] a !b\oys` school# / 510 51 5910 2 1 b 21 I *mean* there just / 510 52 5920 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 52 5910 1 1(b 11 ^w\/eren`t any 'girls a'round# / 510 52 5930 1 1 b 11 at ^\all# / 510 52 5940 1 2 b 11 and so a ^{g\irl was a sort of} . !{str\ange . / 510 52 5940 1 1 b 11 [@:m]} in":effable \ob**ject# / 510 52 5950 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 52 5960 2 1 b 21 ^something** that / 510 52 5970 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# . / 510 52 5980 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#** / 510 52 5960 1 1(b 11 you you !l\onged for# / 510 52 5990 1 1 b 11 but could ^never *t/ouch#* / 510 52 6000 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* - / 510 52 6010 1 1 b 11 and I ^d\o _think that# . / 510 52 6020 1 1 b 11 [@m] ^even if 'people !d\o go to# / 510 52 6030 1 1 b 11 to ^single 'sex !sch\/ools 'nowadays# / 510 52 6040 1 1 b 11 that they have ^much more "!c\ontact# / 510 53 6050 1 1 b 11 [w] "^w\ith the '[adh] . 'opposite s/ex# - / 510 53 6060 1 1 b 11 ^=and# / 510 53 6070 1 2 b 11 [@:m] their ((re^actions)) a 'much more n\atural / 510 53 6070 1 1 b 11 'one# / 510 53 6080 1 1 b 11 *you* ^kn/ow# / 510 53 6090 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 53 6100 1 2(b 11 [@:m] . ^people com'plain about 'all the / 510 53 6100 1 1(b 11 :n\udity# - / 510 53 6110 1 2 b 11 you ^know they 'say that they 'don`t like the / 510 53 6110 1 1 b 11 :n\udity# / 510 53 6120 1 1 b 11 ^nudity on ad!v\ertisements and s/o on# / 510 53 6130 1 2 b 12 well I [mi:] ^I I can ^see the . ob"!j\/ection to / 510 53 6130 1 1 b 12 'that# / 510 53 6140 1 1 b 11 in in ^terms of . the com!m\ercialism 'of it# / 510 53 6150 1 1 b 11 *the ^exploit!\ation# / 510 54 6160 2 1 b 21 I ^don`t / 510 54 6170 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 510 54 6180 1 1 a 11 the ^exploit\ation# . / 510 54 6190 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# - / 510 54 6200 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]#* / 510 54 6160 1 1(b 11 _like the _exploit!\ation#;.*; / 510 54 6210 1 1 b 11 but the ^nudity it:s\elf# / 510 54 6220 2 1 b 22 **I** ^think is a tre!mendously . a tre^m\endous / 510 54 6230 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 54 6240 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 510 54 6250 1 1 a 11 ^y\eah#* / 510 54 6220 1 1(b 12 'thing# / 510 54 6260 1 2 b 12 I ^mean *it`s [@:m]* I ^think it`s it`s a / 510 54 6260 1 1 b 12 :m\arvellous 'thing# / 510 54 6270 1 2 b 11 that ^people . have at 'last . 'managed to / 510 54 6270 1 1 b 11 acc\ept# . / 510 54 6280 1 1 b 11 the ^human b\ody# / 510 54 6290 1 1 b 11 you ^kn\/ow and# / 510 55 6300 1 2 b 11 and [@m] I ^think the the !y\ounger gene'ration / 510 55 6300 1 1 b 11 {par^t\icularly#}# / 510 55 6310 1 1 b 11 ac^c\ept it# / 510 55 6320 1 1 b 11 in a ^way that we 'just did "n\ot# - / 510 55 6330 1 1 b 20 *((syll))* / 510 55 6340 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# *-* / 510 55 6350 1 1 a 11 oh I ^think this 'this is :generally :tr\ue# / 510 55 6360 1 1 a 11 but - you know ^from 'what 'I`ve :s\een# / 510 55 6370 1 1 a 11 of ^of the 'kids at sch\ool# / 510 55 6380 1 1 a 11 there are ^st\ill# . / 510 55 6390 1 1 a 11 ^quite a l\ot# / 510 55 6400 1 1 a 11 who ^are - - !put \out# - / 510 55 6410 2 1 a 21 ^if you 'talk a'bout _sex / 510 55 6420 1 1 b 11 ^r/\eally# / 510 55 6410 1 1(a 11 :\openly# - / 510 55 6430 1 1 a 11 I mean al^though 'in :g\eneral# / 510 55 6440 1 2 a 11 the ^atmos'phere [i] is - - !{m\ore} . / 510 55 6440 1 1 a 11 'open-\ended# . / 510 56 6450 1 1 a 11 and they`re ^m\ore 'willing to 'talk# - / 510 56 6460 1 2 a 13 there`s ^still a 'sort of ^you you can ^w\/atch / 510 56 6460 1 1 a 13 'some of 'them# / 510 56 6470 1 1 a 11 [w m] ^closing \up# . / 510 56 6480 1 1 a 11 and ^{\even} \older# / 510 56 6490 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 56 6500 1 1 a 11 ^even in the !s\ixth form# / 510 56 6510 1 1 a 11 there are ^one or tw\o# / 510 56 6520 1 1 a 11 who ^will not !t\alk about 'sex# / 510 56 6530 1 1 a 11 but ^usually by :th\en of _course# / 510 56 6540 1 1 a 11 they . be^cause they`ve got . :positive :v\iews# . / 510 56 6550 1 1 a 11 ^rather than because they`re !fr\ightened# - / 510 57 6560 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 57 6570 1 2 a 11 ^but [@] I !think it`s - :one of the :d\angers / 510 57 6570 1 1 a 11 of# . / 510 57 6580 1 1 a 11 I sup^pose what they l\ike to 'call# / 510 57 6590 1 1 a 11 the per^missive soc\/iety# - / 510 57 6600 1 2 a 11 ^is that they`re !just 'making a :very 'sweeping / 510 57 6600 1 1 a 11 !st\atement# - / 510 57 6610 1 1 a 11 ^and that they for!g\et# / 510 57 6620 1 1 a 11 that there`s ^still an e:normous var!\iety# - / 510 57 6630 1 1 b 11 [je] that`s ^very \interesting# / 510 57 6640 1 1 b 11 I`m ^glad . to h\ear you say 'that in a w/ay# / 510 57 6650 1 1 b 11 be^c=ause [@:m]# . / 510 57 6660 1 1 b 11 ((of)) ^course the per!missive soc/iety# / 510 58 6670 1 1 b 11 ^doesn`t ex'ist in 'Cyprus :\anyway# / 510 58 6680 1 1 b 11 *you ^kn/ow#* / 510 58 6690 2 1 b 21 it`s a com^pletely / 510 58 6700 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 510 58 6710 1 1 a 11 **^n\o#** / 510 58 6690 1 1(b 11 **'alien** !c\oncept# / 510 58 6720 1 1 b 11 because ^I would 'say that :C\yprus# / 510 58 6730 1 1 b 11 in "^that re:sp\ect# . / 510 58 6740 1 1 b 11 ^is . !fifty years be!h\ind 'England# / 510 58 6750 2 1 b 22 I ^mean *[i]* [em] ^if one can / 510 58 6760 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 58 6750 1 1(b 12 'call it . :going f\orward 'or# / 510 58 6770 2 1 b 21 **what^ever you 'like / 510 58 6780 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# / 510 58 6790 1 1 a 11 I ^kn\ow what you m/ean# / 510 58 6800 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#** / 510 59 6770 1 1(b 11 to !c\all it {^sort of** !th\ing#}# / 510 59 6810 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# . / 510 59 6820 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - but the ^thing \is that# . / 510 59 6830 1 2 b 11 ^I just 'don`t be!l\ieve in 'this per'missive / 510 59 6830 1 1 b 11 *soc/iety#* / 510 59 6840 2 1 b 22 I ^think it I ^think it`s / 510 59 6850 1 1 a 11 *((^I d\o#))* / 510 59 6860 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 59 6840 1 1(b 12 a :journal:istic !phr\ase **in** a w/ay# / 510 59 6870 1 1 b 11 it`s a ^bit like the 'angry young !m\an# / 510 59 6880 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 59 6890 2 1 b 22 *[i] ^people / 510 59 6900 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 510 59 6910 1 1 a 11 it it`s ^cr\azy#* / 510 59 6890 1 2(b 12 'thought that 'everybody* . I re^member 'very / 510 59 6890 1 1(b 12 !cl\early# / 510 60 6920 1 1 b 11 [o] on ^one oc'casion I 'had a g\irlfriend# / 510 60 6930 1 1 b 11 when ^I was a'bout [@m] 'seven:t\/een or 'so# / 510 60 6940 1 1 a 11 ^[\mhm]# / 510 60 6950 1 1 b 11 ^=and [@m]# - / 510 60 6960 1 1 b 12 ^I you ^kn/ow# / 510 60 6970 1 1 b 12 I ^had a 'lot of ^I supp\ose# - / 510 60 6980 1 2 b 11 [@:m] ^uncon'ventional i"!d\eas at [dh ae] at that / 510 60 6980 1 1 b 11 /age# - / 510 60 6990 1 1 b 11 ^and I . !t\alked# / 510 60 7000 1 1 b 11 to ^this !g\irlfriend of 'mine# / 510 60 7010 1 1 b 11 a^b\/out these i'deas# . / 510 60 7020 1 1 b 11 ^and !\evidently# / 510 60 7030 1 2 b 11 she ^must have 'talked to her "!m\other a'bout them/ 510 60 7030 1 1 b 11 you s/ee# / 510 60 7040 1 1 b 11 be^c\ause [@:m]# . / 510 60 7050 1 1 b 11 on ^one oc'casion I was :over at 'her h\ouse# . / 510 61 7060 1 1 b 11 and her ^m\other# . / 510 61 7070 1 1 b 11 ^came 'into the r\oom# / 510 61 7080 1 1 b 11 the ^first time I`d "!m\/et her 'mother# . / 510 61 7090 1 1 b 11 ^and she s=aid [@:m]# - / 510 61 7100 1 1 b 11 ^oh I thought you were an !angry young !m\an# - / 510 61 7110 1 1 b 11 *you* ^kn/ow# / 510 61 7120 1 1 b 11 she "^l\/ooked at 'me you see# / 510 61 7130 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 61 7140 1 2(b 11 and ^evidently I 'didn`t !look an 'angry **young / 510 61 7140 1 1(b 11 m/an# / 510 61 7150 1 1 a 20 **( - - - laughs)** / 510 62 7160 1 1(b 11 and ^so I !w\asn`t# / 510 62 7170 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow#** . / 510 62 7180 1 1 b 11 but the ^th\ing is# / 510 62 7190 1 1 b 11 that ^at 'that st\age# / 510 62 7200 1 1 b 11 I ^m=ean# . / 510 62 7210 2 1 b 21 when I was / 510 62 7220 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 62 7210 1 1(b 11 *^seven*'teen or 'eight\een# / 510 62 7230 1 1 b 11 "^angry 'young m\an# / 510 62 7240 1 2 b 11 was a ^journalistic 'phrase that was 'being / 510 62 7240 1 1 b 11 "!\used#;**.; / 510 62 7250 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# / 510 62 7260 1 1 a 11 ^that`s r/ight#** / 510 62 7270 1 1(b 11 ((in)) ^much the 'same w\ay#** / 510 62 7280 1 1 b 11 as the per^missive so:c\iety# / 510 62 7290 1 1 b 11 *is ^being 'used "!n\ow#* / 510 63 7300 1 1 a 11 *and it`s [s] ^so* . "\irritating# / 510 63 7310 1 1 a 11 it an^n\oys me :{^no \end#}# / 510 63 7320 1 2 a 13 be^cause [i] it - it ^f\orces 'atti'tudes on . [@] / 510 63 7320 1 1 a 13 ^{w\ell} es!pecially y\oung people# / 510 63 7330 1 1 a 11 ^fairly *im*:pr\essionable 'people# - / 510 63 7340 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 63 7350 1 1(a 11 you know ^they 'feel !oh g\oodness# / 510 63 7360 1 1 a 11 we`ve "^got to 'be per:m\issive# / 510 63 7370 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 63 7380 1 2 a 12 ^((and)) !all [dhi] the ^nonsense a'bout :st\udents/ 510 63 7380 1 1 a 12 that`s been 'talked {as ^w\ell#}# / 510 64 7390 1 1 a 12 the ^way the ^way !st\udents# / 510 64 7400 1 1 a 11 have been ^blown !\up# / 510 64 7410 1 1 a 11 as . you ^kn/ow# / 510 64 7420 1 1 b 11 ^[=m]# / 510 64 7430 1 1(a 11 a re"^bellious - :gr\oup# - / 510 64 7440 1 2 a 11 ^who are :constantly . [@:m] - / 510 64 7440 1 1 a 11 "!anti-es:t\ablish'ment# / 510 64 7450 1 1 a 11 and ^anti-"!\everything# - - / 510 64 7460 1 1 b 11 ^[=m]# / 510 64 7470 1 1(a 11 it`s ^had a !lot of :h\arm# . / 510 64 7480 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 65 7490 1 1 a 11 [bi] you ^kn\ow# / 510 65 7500 1 1 a 11 the the ef^f\ects# / 510 65 7510 1 1 a 11 have been ^very :b\ad# / 510 65 7520 1 2 a 11 es^pecially 'on - 'people !wanting to !g\o to / 510 65 7520 1 1 a 11 'uni'versity# - / 510 65 7530 1 1 a 11 ^and the !attitude of _their !p\arents# / 510 65 7540 1 1 a 11 who have ^s=aid# . / 510 65 7550 1 1 a 11 ^n\o# / 510 65 7560 1 1 a 11 ^I !don`t !{w\ant you} to g\o to *uni'versity# / 510 65 7570 1 1 a 11 ((or)) to ^places like !th\at# . / 510 65 7580 1 1 b 11 *is ^that !s\o# / 510 65 7590 1 1 b 11 I ^didn`t kn\ow# / 510 65 7600 1 1 b 12 ^that`s ^that`s 'very \interesting# / 510 65 7610 1 1 b 21 I ^didn`t !r\ealize that 'that was* / 510 66 7620 1 1 a 11 ^oh it`s :v\ery true# - . / 510 66 7630 1 1 a 11 it`s ^happened* a !l\ot at 'school# . / 510 66 7640 2 1 a 21 **^parents** who have been !very / 510 66 7650 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 66 7640 1 2(a 11 !w\orried a'bout their 'son`s 'going to / 510 66 7640 1 1(a 11 univ/ersity# / 510 66 7660 1 1 a 11 you *^kn/ow#* / 510 66 7670 1 1 a 11 they ^don`t "!w\ant it# - / 510 66 7680 2 1 a 21 ^they don`t / 510 66 7690 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 66 7680 1 1(a 11 "!want to im'agine their s\on sort of# - / 510 66 7700 1 1 a 11 ^leaping into 'bed with 'every other :g\irl and# / 510 67 7710 1 1 b 11 or ^taking dr\ugs *or {^something like th\at#}# / 510 67 7720 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 510 67 7730 1 1 a 11 *or ^taking dr\ugs 'or#* / 510 67 7740 1 1 a 11 or . [m] ^sitting :\in and# / 510 67 7750 2 1 a 21 **^staging** / 510 67 7760 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 67 7750 1 1(a 11 this 'that and *the :\other# / 510 67 7770 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow#* / 510 67 7780 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]# / 510 67 7790 1 1 b 11 ( . laughs)* ^y\es# - / 510 67 7800 1 1 a 11 ^=and# / 510 67 7810 1 2 a 12 [dhi] ^[dhi:] sort of :out . the out^sider`s 'view / 510 67 7810 1 1 a 12 of uni:v\/ersity 'is# / 510 68 7820 1 1 a 11 that it`s ^really be'come a 'den of in:\iquity# / 510 68 7830 1 1 b 20 ( . laughs) / 510 68 7840 1 1 a 11 and ^even - [@:] the :boys them!s\elves# . / 510 68 7850 1 1 a 12 ^are are ^w\orried a'bout it 'very 'often# - / 510 68 7860 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 510 68 7870 1 1 a 11 ^I can s/\ympathize# / 510 68 7880 1 1 a 11 cos I`m ^sure !\I would have 'been# / 510 68 7890 1 1 a 11 at ^th\/eir age# - / 510 68 7900 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 68 7910 1 1 a 11 ^I`d have *been* !h\orrified# / 510 68 7920 1 1 a 11 I mean [?] ^as it !w\as# / 510 68 7930 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 510 69 7940 1 1(a 11 ^going 'up to 'univ\ersity and# . / 510 69 7950 1 1 a 11 ^leaving :h\ome for the _first _time# / 510 69 7960 1 1 a 11 was ((a)) ^pretty 'big !st\ep# - / 510 69 7970 1 1 a 11 because ^\/I went# . / 510 69 7980 1 1 a 11 ^straight from !sch\ool# / 510 69 7990 1 1 a 11 *un^l\ike 'you you s/ee#* - / 510 69 8000 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 510 69 8010 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 510 69 8020 1 1(a 11 ^=and# - / 510 69 8030 1 1 a 11 if ^/\I`d 'come to# / 510 69 8040 1 1 a 11 a ^university with "!that sort of :\/image# / 510 69 8050 1 1 a 11 I`m ^sure I`d have been :t\errified# - / 510 69 8060 1 1 a 11 ((cos)) it`s ^not until you`re :th\ere# / 510 69 8070 1 1 a 11 that you ^r\ealize# / 510 69 8080 1 1 a 11 that ^\/at uni'versity# / 510 69 8090 1 1 a 11 you can ^go your :\own 'way# . / 510 70 8100 1 1 a 11 and that it`s ^only . per!m\issive# / 510 70 8110 1 2 a 11 in the ^sense that _you - ((sort of)) :mould your / 510 70 8110 1 1 a 11 'own !!p\ath in a w/ay# / 510 70 8120 1 1 a 11 ^you are per:mitted to 'do :as you !l\ike# - / 510 70 8130 1 1 a 12 but ^they it im"^p\oses a 'fashion# / 510 70 8140 1 1 a 11 that the - *pub^l\icity 'does#* / 510 70 8150 1 1 b 12 *I ^think it I* ^think it :\also im'poses# / 510 70 8160 1 1 b 11 ^more than !th\at# / 510 70 8170 1 1 b 11 because I ^think that a !l\ot of 'people# / 510 70 8180 1 1 b 11 par^ticularly :g\/irls# / 510 70 8190 1 1 b 11 are ^forced 'into a 'certain !p\attern# / 510 71 8200 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 510 71 8210 1 1 a 11 they ^\are#* / 510 71 8220 1 1(b 11 *I ^m=ean# . / 510 71 8230 1 1 b 11 they`re* ^even f\orced# . / 510 71 8240 1 2 b 11 to ^lose their vir:g\inity 'let`s 'say you / 510 71 8240 1 1 b 11 **s/ee# . / 510 71 8250 1 1 b 11 ^=and#** . / 510 71 8260 1 1 b 11 I ^m=ean# / 510 71 8270 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# . / 510 71 8280 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#** / 510 71 8290 1 1(b 11 al^though I don`t ob'ject to that in pr\inciple# / 510 71 8300 1 1 b 11 I mean I ^think it`s a !jolly good !th\ing# / 510 71 8310 2 1 b 21 *if* they / 510 71 8320 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 71 8330 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 71 8340 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 72 8310 1 1(b 11 ^w\/ant to but# . / 510 72 8350 1 1 b 11 **^not** if they !!d\on`t 'want *to#* / 510 72 8360 1 1 b 11 be^c=ause . [@:m]# / 510 72 8370 1 1 b 11 it`s ^just an'other _sort of "!pr\essure# / 510 72 8380 1 1 b 11 ^\isn`t it# / 510 72 8390 1 1 b 11 **I ^m=ean# . / 510 72 8400 1 1 b 23 ^if you ^if you ^if you 'feel** / 510 72 8410 1 1 a 11 **it ^\is# . / 510 72 8420 1 1 a 11 and there are e^n\ough 'pressures th/ere#** / 510 72 8430 1 1 a 11 ^after !\all# / 510 72 8440 1 1 b 11 there ^\are you s/ee# / 510 72 8450 1 1 b 11 and I ^think [@:m] . in _life [i] . in !!g\eneral# / 510 72 8460 1 1 b 11 there are so *^m\any* 'pressures# / 510 72 8470 2 1 b 22 and I ^think / 510 73 8480 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 73 8470 1 1(b 12 'people are !s\ubstituting . [@:] ^in the p\ast# / 510 73 8490 1 1 b 11 ^people - were !terribly [? @:m] a:fr\aid of 'sex# / 510 73 8500 1 1 b 11 and they ^didn`t disc/uss it *and#* / 510 73 8510 1 1 b 11 they were ^w\orried a'bout it# / 510 73 8520 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 73 8530 1 1(b 11 and ^s/o on# - / 510 73 8540 1 1 b 11 [@:] and ^{n\ow} there`s a !n\ew sort of 'pressure#/ 510 73 8550 1 1 b 11 that you`ve ^got to be :w\ith it# / 510 73 8560 1 2 b 13 and [@m] you you you ^are "^am I 'getting e!nough / 510 73 8560 1 1 b 13 ^am I 'having enough :\orgasms# / 510 74 8570 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 74 8580 2 1 b 21 *^th\at sort of / 510 74 8590 1 1 a 11 *^th\at`s r/ight# / 510 74 8600 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 74 8610 1 1 a 11 +^y=es#+ / 510 74 8580 1 1(b 11 'thing#;.*; / 510 74 8620 1 1 b 11 [@:m] ^am I g\ood enough# / 510 74 8630 1 1 b 12 ^am +I .+ ^am I "!c\apable# / 510 74 8640 1 1 b 12 and **^that** . you ^kn/ow# / 510 74 8650 2 1 b 22 ^that ^that`s the / 510 74 8660 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 74 8650 1 1(b 12 !new sort of :pr\essure# / 510 74 8670 1 2 b 11 which is ^really . 'being *im!p\osed* up'on / 510 74 8670 1 1 b 11 'people# - / 510 74 8680 1 1 b 20 **((syll))** / 510 74 8690 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 74 8700 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# . / 510 74 8710 1 2 a 11 well ^I think **it`s** a !much !w\orse one in / 510 74 8710 1 1 a 11 f/act# / 510 75 8720 1 1 a 11 ^fr\/ankly# / 510 75 8730 1 1 a 21 I ^think it`s / 510 75 8740 1 1 b 11 in ^s\/ome res'pects# / 510 75 8750 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 510 75 8760 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 510 75 8770 1 1 a 11 *I mean* ^\obviously you 'know# / 510 75 8780 1 1 a 11 the ^\other 'side# / 510 75 8790 1 1 a 11 has got a ^lot . a'gainst it as !w\ell# / 510 75 8800 1 1 a 11 **you know the ex^treme re:pr\ession#** / 510 75 8810 1 2 b 11 **yes I I ^don`t like the / 510 75 8810 1 1 b 11 :((sordid-))"!m\indedness** of the 'other s/ide# / 510 75 8820 1 1 b 11 you ^kn/ow# / 510 75 8830 2 1 b 21 *^that`s what I !d\on`t* / 510 76 8840 1 1 a 11 *^n\o# . / 510 76 8850 2 1 a 21 ^it`s* / 510 76 8830 1 1(b 11 'like ab/out it but **[@m]#** / 510 76 8850 1 1(a 11 **p\etty#** / 510 76 8860 1 1 a 11 it`s ^n\asty# / 510 76 8870 1 1 a 11 it`s sort of ^super:cr\itical# / 510 76 8880 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 76 8890 1 1 a 11 *I mean* at ^least at '[dh@:] at the :m\oment# / 510 76 8900 1 1 a 11 ^people are :much more !g\enerous to'wards 'others#/ 510 76 8910 1 1 a 11 I ^{th\ink} on the :wh\ole# / 510 76 8920 1 1 a 11 ^you kn\ow to#;*-* .; / 510 76 8930 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 77 8940 1 1(a 11 [@:m] ^well !homo!s\exuals for e_xample# / 510 77 8950 1 1 a 11 is the ^\obvious ex'ample# / 510 77 8960 1 1 a 11 that **^springs** to m/ind 'where# / 510 77 8970 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 510 77 8980 1 1(a 11 - a "^l\ot of 'people {at ^\any rate#}# / 510 77 8990 1 1 a 11 are "^are 'more g/enerous# . / 510 77 9000 1 1 a 20 *((2 sylls))* / 510 77 9010 1 1 b 11 ^I 'think they *:\are# / 510 77 9020 1 2 b 12 and* I ^think !even if [@:m] a^{g\ain you 'see} / 510 77 9020 1 1 b 12 one`s :g\eneralizing# / 510 77 9030 1 1 b 11 when one ^says a !l\/ot of **'people#** / 510 77 9040 2 1 b 21 but ^on the / 510 78 9050 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 78 9040 1 1(b 11 'other h\and# . / 510 78 9060 1 1 b 11 [@:] I ^think that . _almost "!\/everybody is# / 510 78 9070 1 1 b 11 "^f\orced to 'be 'more 'generous# / 510 78 9080 1 1 b 11 *than* he ^w\/ould be# / 510 78 9090 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 78 9100 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 78 9110 1 1 b 11 [@:m] you ^kn/ow# / 510 78 9120 1 2 b 11 it re^minds me ((of what)) :\Orwell 'always _said / 510 78 9120 1 1 b 11 that [@:m]# . / 510 78 9130 1 1 b 11 the ^i'dea of the :English !g\/entleman# . / 510 78 9140 1 2 b 11 al^though it 'may be in !some . !{s\ome re'spects} / 510 78 9140 1 1 b 11 [? @:] :l\udicrous# - / 510 78 9150 1 1 b 11 or con^t\/emptible# - / 510 79 9160 1 1 b 12 is ^not in [it'se] is ^not !r\/eally con'temptible#/ 510 79 9170 1 1 b 11 because it`s "^b\/etter# / 510 79 9180 1 2 b 11 than than ^having an i'dea of your'self as a / 510 79 9180 1 1 b 11 ":f\ascist 'let`s *s/ay you 'see# / 510 79 9190 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 510 79 9200 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 79 9210 1 2(b 11 I mean* at ^least it 'puts 'some sort of con":tr\ol/ 510 79 9210 1 1(b 11 'on you# / 510 79 9220 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 510 79 9230 1 1(b 11 ^=and# / 510 79 9240 1 1 b 11 ^some sort of "!s\anction# / 510 80 9250 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# / 510 80 9260 1 1(b 11 that pre^v\/ents you from# . / 510 80 9270 1 1 b 11 be^h\/aviour# / 510 80 9280 1 1 b 11 which is ^really des!p\icable# / 510 80 9290 1 1 a 11 ^[h\m]# - / 510 80 9300 1 2 b 12 ^and I !think he`s '[re] it`s the ^same sort of / 510 80 9300 1 1 b 12 'thing in !th\is 'case# / 510 80 9310 1 1 b 11 that ^most 'people :n\/owadays# - / 510 80 9320 1 1 b 12 [@:m ?@:] ^can`t 'have ^can`t \exercise# / 510 80 9330 1 2 b 11 the ^same 'sort of . :{r\acial} . 'and [@:m] / 510 80 9330 1 1 b 11 :{s\exual} . "pr\ejudices# / 510 80 9340 1 1 b 11 which they ^had in the :p\/ast# / 510 80 9350 1 1 b 11 [@: @:] be^cause they`re a"!!fr\aid to# / 510 81 9360 2 1 b 21 *because* it`s ^just 'not / 510 81 9370 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 81 9360 1 1(b 11 the :thing to !d\o# / 510 81 9380 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not ac"!c\eptable# - / 510 81 9390 1 1 b 11 ^y\ou 'know# / 510 81 9400 2 1 b 22 and I **^think** 'that`s a !![gu] I mean [i] it / 510 81 9410 1 1 a 11 **^[\m]#** / 510 81 9400 1 1(b 12 ^{\is} a :g\ood thing# / 510 81 9420 1 1 b 11 it ^may be 'hypo:cr\itical# / 510 81 9430 1 1 b 11 ^people 'say w\ell# - / 510 81 9440 1 2 b 11 [i ? i] it`s ^not 'how they :really 'feel / 510 81 9440 1 1 b 11 :b\asically# / 510 81 9450 1 1 b 11 they ^feel !d\ifferently# / 510 82 9460 1 1 b 13 they`d ^like to . ^to [@:m] you ^kn/ow# / 510 82 9470 1 2 b 11 ^kill 'all . :coloured 'people *or* :something like/ 510 82 9470 1 1 b 11 th\at# / 510 82 9480 1 1 a 11 *^y\eah#* / 510 82 9490 1 1 a 11 ^y/eah# / 510 82 9500 1 1(b 11 but the ^fact that they "!d\on`t 'do it# / 510 82 9510 1 1 b 11 and that they "^c\an`t 'do it# / 510 82 9520 2 1 b 21 and that *so^ciety* _doesn`t ap"!!pr\ove of their / 510 82 9530 1 1 a 11 *((^that`s /it#))* / 510 82 9540 1 1 a 11 **^y\es# . / 510 82 9550 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]#** / 510 82 9520 1 1(b 11 'doing it# / 510 82 9560 1 1 b 11 **. is im**"^mensely im:p\ortant be_cause# . / 510 82 9570 1 2 b 11 ^look at what 'happens in a so'ciety where it "!\is/ 510 82 9570 1 1 b 11 ap'proved 'of# . / 510 83 9580 1 1 a 11 ^oh abso!l\utely# / 510 83 9590 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# . / 510 83 9600 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#* / 510 83 9610 1 1(b 11 *you ^kn/ow# / 510 83 9620 1 1 b 13 ^[ae] and ^where where* it "^\is al'lowed# / 510 83 9630 1 1 b 11 where **^that sort of thing** !\is al'lowed# / 510 83 9640 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 83 9650 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 83 9660 2 1(b 23 *I ^mean* and ^[pi:] ^people have 'just . / 510 83 9670 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 510 83 9680 1 1 a 11 **^y/es#** / 510 83 9660 1 1(b 13 got "!n\o sort of con'trol of them_selves# / 510 83 9690 1 1 b 11 **at** ^\all# . / 510 83 9700 1 2 a 11 well at ^East {H\am} we`re right in the !th\ick of / 510 83 9700 1 1 a 11 the# / 510 84 9710 1 1 a 11 ^((2 sylls)) :r\ace 'problem# . / 510 84 9720 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 84 9730 1 2(a 12 ^which [@] ^we`ve had some !very n\asty . / 510 84 9730 1 1(a 12 'patches# . / 510 84 9740 1 1 a 11 ^really :v\ery un'pleasant# / 510 84 9750 1 1 a 11 in^d\eed# . / 510 84 9760 1 2 b 11 ^I`d be !interested to !h\ear about 'that / 510 84 9760 1 1 b 11 /actually# / 510 84 9770 1 2 b 11 be^cause [@m] :we`re a 'bit re!m\ote from 'that in / 510 84 9770 1 1 b 11 *'Cyp*rus# / 510 84 9780 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 84 9790 1 2(b 12 you know ^though ^well of course I mean you :may / 510 84 9790 1 1(b 12 say there :is a :racial pr\oblem# / 510 85 9800 1 1 b 11 in the ^sense that there are !T\urks# / 510 85 9810 1 1 b 11 **and** ^Gr\eeks# / 510 85 9820 2 1 b 21 but it`s / 510 85 9830 1 1 a 11 **^y\es#** / 510 85 9840 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 510 85 9850 1 1 a 11 +^y\es# / 510 85 9860 1 1 a 11 ^m\ust be# / 510 85 9870 1 1 a 11 ^y\es#+ / 510 85 9820 1 1(b 11 *^quite* d\ifferent +'really# / 510 85 9880 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not the :s\/ame sort+ of 'thing# / 510 85 9890 1 1 b 11 at ^\all# / 510 85 9900 1 1 a 11 ^y\eah# . / 510 85 9910 1 1 a 11 well ^this has . :come ab\out that# / 510 85 9920 1 1 a 11 ^one of the :areas !n\ear 'East 'Ham# / 510 85 9930 1 1 a 11 and which ^feeds 'our !sch\ool# / 510 85 9940 1 1 a 11 ^Forest !G\ate# - / 510 85 9950 1 1 a 11 [@:] has be^c=ome# . / 510 86 9960 1 2 a 11 I sup^pose almost pre!d\ominantly 'populated by / 510 86 9960 1 1 a 11 'coloured _people# . / 510 86 9970 1 1 a 11 [@m] ^Indians 'Pakis'tanis par:t\icularly# . / 510 86 9980 1 1 a 11 but a ^few 'West 'Indians as :w\ell# - / 510 86 9990 1 1 a 11 "^=and# - - / 510 8610000 1 1 a 11 ^they were 'mixing :r\/easonably 'well# / 510 8610010 1 2 a 11 un^til [dh] it 'started to be'come . a a ((sort / 510 8610010 1 1 a 11 of)) :big 'public !th\ing# . / 510 8610020 1 2 a 11 you know "^really un'til _Enoch !P\owell 'started / 510 8610020 1 1 a 11 to 'talk# / 510 8610030 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 510 8710040 1 1 a 11 and ^then it :really became :most un!pl\easant# - / 510 8710050 1 2 a 11 we`d ^got . !not 'all 'that :m\any in 'our / 510 8710050 1 1 a 11 'school# . / 510 8710060 1 2 a 11 because ^most of them come :over !not speaking / 510 8710060 1 1 a 11 \English# . / 510 8710070 1 1 a 11 *or* ^not being 'able to !wr\ite 'English# / 510 8710080 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 8710090 1 2(a 12 and ^therefore not 'many of _them get _into the the/ 510 8710090 1 1(a 12 ^gr\ammar **school** 'system in 'fact# - / 510 8710100 1 1 b 11 **^y\es#** / 510 8710110 1 1(a 11 ^=and# - - / 510 8710120 1 1 a 11 you`d ^get a !!real 'persec\ution 'of them# . / 510 8810130 1 1 a 11 say [t] a ^c\ouple# / 510 8810140 1 1 a 11 in a ^cl\ass# - / 510 8810150 1 2 a 11 ^and it was !always 'worse to have :{tw\o} than / 510 8810150 1 1 a 11 :\one# - / 510 8810160 1 1 a 11 ^if there was !\/one# - / 510 8810170 1 1 a 11 they`d ^somehow be 'willing to ac:c\ept him# . / 510 8810180 2 1 a 21 but ^if there *was* / 510 8810190 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 8810200 1 1 b 11 **^[=m]#** / 510 8810180 1 1(a 11 !tw\/o# / 510 8810210 1 1 a 11 they would ^stick tog\ether# . / 510 8810220 1 2 a 11 **and** im^mediately cre:ate a sort of !little / 510 8810220 1 1 a 11 soc\iety# / 510 8810230 1 1 a 11 ^out!s\ide# - / 510 8810240 1 1 a 11 the the ^{m\ain} . !wh\ite so'ciety# . / 510 8810250 1 1 a 11 and ^they bec\ame# . / 510 8810260 1 1 a 12 the ^sort of . the you know ^P\iggies of the 'form#/ 510 8910270 1 1 a 11 if you re^member 'Lord of the !Fl\ies# / 510 8910280 1 1 a 11 *. ^you kn/ow#* . / 510 8910290 2 1 a 21 "^they were the / 510 8910300 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 510 8910310 1 1 b 11 ^y\es#* / 510 8910290 1 1(a 11 'ones that people !p\icked on# / 510 8910320 1 1 a 11 ^it was . a re!lease for the :fat b/oy# / 510 8910330 1 1 a 12 ^or for the . the the ^non-!sp\orty _boy# / 510 8910340 1 1 a 11 or ^something like !th\at# / 510 8910350 1 2 a 11 be^cause it _meant that !he could 'turn on _them as/ 510 8910350 1 1 a 11 :w\ell# / 510 8910360 1 1 a 11 it was a ^different - 'person *to* at!t\ack# . / 510 9010370 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 510 9010380 1 1(a 11 ^but they !w\ere at'tacked# / 510 9010390 1 1 a 11 and ^often :very se:v\erely# / 510 9010400 1 1 b 11 well of ^course in !th\is re'spect# / 510 9010410 1 1 b 11 ^children !aren`t af:f\ected by '[dhi:]# / 510 9010420 1 1 b 11 ^current :mores :r\eally# / 510 9010430 1 1 a 11 *^n\o#* / 510 9010440 1 1(b 12 in *the* ^sense that . [@:m] you ^kn\ow# . / 510 9010450 1 1 b 11 ^they`re 'not in!h\ibited# / 510 9010460 2 1 b 22 **because** ^they ^they can 'do / 510 9010470 1 1 a 11 **^n\o#** / 510 9010480 1 1 a 11 *^[=m]#* / 510 9110460 1 1(b 12 what they !w\ant to *'do#* / 510 9110490 1 1 b 12 and they ^don`t 'feel the :[sei] . ^that`s wh\y# / 510 9110500 1 1 b 11 I ^think it`s so [?@] 'so !str\ange# / 510 9110510 1 1 b 11 when ^p\eople# / 510 9110520 1 1 b 11 ^seem to 'think that !ch\ildren# . / 510 9110530 1 1 b 11 [@:m] are more ^{s\ensitive} than !\adults# / 510 9110540 1 1 b 11 because in ^fact they`re ":n\ot# / 511a 1 10 1 1 a 11 1^come !/in# - . / 511a 1 20 1 1 B 11 1^can I !sm\oke in 'here *[dei] . D/avid#* / 511a 1 30 1 1 a 11 1*^pl\ease# / 511a 1 40 1 1 a 11 1^pl\ease* old 'fellow# / 511a 1 50 1 1 a 11 1^come =in# / 511a 1 60 1 1 a 11 1and ^sm=oke# / 511a 1 70 1 1 a 11 1and . "^be h\appy# - / 511a 1 80 1 1 a 11 1^come 'in and :sit down th\ere# . / 511a 1 90 1 1 a 11 1^sorry the _room is _all +!prear:r/anged# / 511a 1 100 1 1 a 20 1I`ve been / 511a 1 110 1 1 B 11 1+^all r/ight# / 511a 1 120 1 1 B 21 1^don`t 'worry about ((3 to 4 sylls))+ / 511a 1 130 2 1 a 21 1^having some+ 'kind of [@:] - 'of *[@] . / 511a 2 140 1 1 B 11 1*sab^batical !y\ear#* / 511a 2 130 1 1(a 11 1c\onference#* / 511a 2 150 1 1 a 11 1^just 'one s\econd# - - - / 511a 2 160 1 2 a 11 1(speaks on telephone - - - ) - . [@] - ^s\orry / 511a 2 160 1 1 a 11 1about th/is 'Ralph# / 511a 2 170 1 1 a 20 1*I . / 511a 2 180 1 1 B 11 1*^don`t w/orry# . / 511a 2 190 1 1 B 11 1((^don`t !w\orry#))* / 511a 2 200 1 1 a 11 1^do you kn/ow# . / 511a 2 210 1 1 a 11 1^last* n/ight 'laddie# - / 511a 2 220 1 2 a 11 1I [@:m] . I`d been "^working a'way like :st\ink / 511a 2 220 1 1 a 11 1this _week# / 511a 3 230 1 1 a 11 1^trying to "!cl\ear /up# . / 511a 3 240 1 1 a 11 1^[dhi:] !b\/acklog of 'mail# / 511a 3 250 1 1 a 11 1^caused by me :only 'being three weeks a!w\ay# . / 511a 3 260 1 1 B 11 1+^y=es#+ / 511a 3 270 1 1 a 11 1+and+ ^I 'thought I was 'doing :m\arvellously# / 511a 3 280 1 1 B 11 1*^y=eah#* / 511a 3 290 1 1 a 11 1*and* ^at a_bout . !!six o`'clock 'last n/ight# . / 511a 3 300 1 1 a 11 1I was ^sorting 'through . [sh] st\uff on the d=esk#/ 511a 4 310 1 2 a 11 1and ^I dis!covered ( . giggles) a !fat 'wadge of / 511a 4 310 1 1 a 11 1st/uff# - / 511a 4 320 1 1 a 11 1[@ ?] ^all 'carefully /opened# / 511a 4 330 1 1 a 11 1and ^and !documented by M/illy# / 511a 4 340 1 1 a 11 1that I ^hadn`t 'even "s/\een# . / 511a 4 350 1 1 a 11 1^so . "!back to the :dr\awing-'board# / 511a 4 360 1 1 a 11 1I was ^\up !half the n/ight of course# - / 511a 4 370 1 1 a 11 1^finding what 'what was wh\at# . / 511a 4 380 1 1 a 20 1+so+ / 511a 4 390 1 2 B 11 1^so you`ve +[@:]+ . re!covered your - . po:s\ition / 511a 4 390 1 1 B 11 1'now h/ave you# / 511a 5 400 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 5 410 1 1 a 11 1^more or l/ess# . / 511a 5 420 1 1 a 11 1^=and [@:m]# / 511a 5 430 1 1 a 11 1I`m [m] "^n\/ext week# / 511a 5 440 1 1 a 11 1is my ^last 'week aw=ay# / 511a 5 450 1 1 a 11 1[m] ^broadly :sp\eaking# / 511a 5 460 1 1 a 11 1I`m ^going to :Br\emen and :{^Br\uges#}# / 511a 5 470 1 1 a 11 1^I got "buggered \up# / 511a 5 480 1 2 a 11 1on [dhi: @:m - . @:] ^{G\erman} . l\ecture 'visits / 511a 5 480 1 1 a 11 1that 'I`ve been d/oing# / 511a 5 490 1 1 a 11 1it ^should have been :all done in "!\one# - / 511a 5 500 1 1 a 11 1and ^then there 'were :some !d\ifficulties# / 511a 6 510 1 1 a 11 1so I ^had to come "b\/ack# / 511a 6 520 1 1 B 11 1*^y/eah#* / 511a 6 530 1 1 a 11 1*with* a ^week in betw\een# / 511a 6 540 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# - / 511a 6 550 1 2 a 11 1[@:m] - ^one or 'two 'things that I :wanted to [@:]/ 511a 6 550 1 1 a 11 1- :r\aise with y/ou# - / 511a 6 560 1 2 a 11 1[@:m] . ^Plato ex'ams and se:c\urity I`ve 'got down/ 511a 6 560 1 1 a 11 1h/ere# . / 511a 6 570 1 1 a 21 1[@:m] - - . ^I !take *it that* / 511a 7 580 1 1 B 11 1*these "^thr\ee* things you m/ean# . / 511a 7 590 1 1 B 12 1^these ^these are !three !s\eparate 'things# / 511a 7 600 1 1 a 11 1^these are _three s\eparate things :{^y\eah#}# / 511a 7 610 1 1 B 11 1^y=eah# . / 511a 7 620 1 2 a 11 1[@:m] . I ^take it 'that - . [@:m dhi] :new 'Plato / 511a 7 620 1 1 a 11 1:dispen:s\ation# - / 511a 7 630 1 2 a 11 1^has . !gone down :well with [@:m] - !Caroline and / 511a 7 630 1 1 a 11 1St\alker# . / 511a 8 640 1 1 a 11 1^neither of them were :m\entioned# . / 511a 8 650 1 1 a 11 1^in [dhi] :document that I :s\aw [?] on it# - / 511a 8 660 1 1 B 11 1was ^that that !l\etter I wr/ote +'round#+ / 511a 8 670 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ . / 511a 8 680 1 1 B 11 1oh ^that was a :casual :l\etter# / 511a 8 690 1 1 B 11 1^only [@:] de:signed to [@:m] :keep them - !c\alm# / 511a 8 700 1 1 B 11 1((and)) in the ^p\icture# / 511a 8 710 1 2 B 11 1I ^mean there`s a !whole lot of b\/ackground to / 511a 8 710 1 1 B 11 1'that# - / 511a 9 720 1 1 B 11 1[@:] the ^picture :\is that [@:m]# . / 511a 9 730 1 2 B 12 1that [@ - . s] the ^[pleit] (([@] the)) ^{f\irst / 511a 9 730 1 1 B 12 1year} :t\/eaching ((you 'see))# / 511a 9 740 1 1 B 11 1^really !needed at:t\ention# . / 511a 9 750 1 1 B 11 1from the ^point of 'view of :seeing h\ow# / 511a 9 760 1 1 B 11 1it would ^be af'fected 'by the re"!!v\isions# - / 511a 9 770 1 1 B 11 1and ^that had been :left 'pretty :v\ague# - / 511a 10 780 1 1 B 11 1and we ^did m\eet# / 511a 10 790 1 2 B 12 1[@:] the ^other d/ay [?] "^Stalker 'wrote a / 511a 10 790 1 1 B 12 1:p\aper# - . / 511a 10 800 1 1 B 11 1^but [@:] we !really ar"!r\ived# / 511a 10 810 1 1 B 11 1at a ^slightly !d\/ifferent con'clusion# / 511a 10 820 1 1 B 11 1about ^h\ow the _Plato# . / 511a 10 830 1 1 B 11 1should should ^now be "t/\aught# - / 511a 10 840 1 1 B 11 1^this is a thing I`m not very well :\up in# / 511a 10 850 1 1 B 11 1^as you !kn\ow# / 511a 10 860 1 1 a 11 1^well you !seem to have a:chieved :m\/ore than# . / 511a 11 870 2 1 a 22 1^dear !John . / 511a 11 880 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# - - / 511a 11 890 1 1 B 11 1*((2 to 3 sylls ^what was he d\oing#))* / 511a 11 870 1 1(a 12 1was ^able to ach/ieve# / 511a 11 900 1 1 a 11 1*in ^some !y\ears here# / 511a 11 910 1 1 a 12 1because "^he was [k !konst] .* ^w\ell# / 511a 11 920 1 1 a 11 1^he was 'constantly tr/ying {to ^g/et#}# - / 511a 11 930 1 1 a 11 1the ^Pl\/ato teaching# / 511a 11 940 1 1 a 11 1^onto a !somewhat a"!n\alogous . f/ooting# / 511a 11 950 1 1 a 11 1to the ^rest of the 'new "!!s\yllabus# / 511a 12 960 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# / 511a 12 970 1 1 B 11 1*^th\/at`s right# - - / 511a 12 980 1 1 B 11 1^[\m]#* / 511a 12 990 1 1 a 11 1*and in "^f\/act you 'see# / 511a 12 1000 1 1 a 11 1[@:m]* the ^Pl\ato 'teaching# / 511a 12 1010 1 1 a 11 1had ^g\one /on# - / 511a 12 1020 1 1 a 11 1"^m\/ore or 'less# / 511a 12 1030 1 1 a 11 1"^\/unchanged# / 511a 12 1040 1 1 a 11 1from the +((^\old university 'syllabus#))+ / 511a 12 1050 1 1 B 11 1+^y\es# / 511a 12 1060 1 1 B 11 1^that`s r\ight#+ / 511a 12 1070 1 1 B 11 1^w\ell# / 511a 12 1080 1 1 B 11 1[@:] the . I ^think the po:s=ition 'is# / 511a 12 1090 1 1 B 11 1that we`re ^all r\ight# / 511a 12 1100 1 2 B 11 1as re^gards [@:] con:ciliating :Caroline and / 511a 12 1100 1 1 B 11 1!St\alker# - / 511a 12 1110 1 2 B 11 1[@:m sto?st@?] ^Stalker 'was in'volved in a rather / 511a 12 1110 1 1 B 11 1:l\ong [@:]# - . / 511a 13 1120 1 1 B 11 1"^t\ension about# / 511a 13 1130 1 2 B 11 1[@:] ^that 'thing that came :up a'bout the [s] / 511a 13 1130 1 1 B 11 1:sessional ex!\ams the 'other 'day# / 511a 13 1140 1 1 a 11 1^s\/orry# / 511a 13 1150 1 1 a 12 1*^[wo] ^what was th\is# / 511a 13 1160 1 1 B 21 1*the ^point is that [@:]* / 511a 13 1170 1 1 a 12 1^can you* 'ink ^ink me !\/in +on this#+ / 511a 13 1180 1 1 B 11 1+^well I+ !t\alked to y/ou [@b] a'bout it# / 511a 13 1190 1 1 B 21 1it . it`s . *^quite ((3 to 4 sylls)) - ((1 syll))* / 511a 14 1200 1 1 a 11 1*I ^if it`s the Ren\/aissance 'paper# / 511a 14 1210 1 1 a 11 1^they were !too* d\ifficult# . / 511a 14 1220 1 1 B 11 1((that`s)) ^r\ight# / 511a 14 1230 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 14 1240 1 1 B 21 1the ^point +being+ / 511a 14 1250 1 1 a 11 1+is ^he+ in"v/olved in 'that# / 511a 14 1260 1 1 B 11 1^he !s\et it# - . / 511a 14 1270 1 1 a 11 1oh I ^hadn`t r/\ealized *'that#* / 511a 15 1280 1 1 B 11 1*( . laughs) ^oh* y/\eah# / 511a 15 1290 1 1 a 11 1^I hadn`t +r/\ealized 'that#+ / 511a 15 1300 1 1 B 11 1+^very much+ :his kind of !p\aper# - . / 511a 15 1310 1 1 B 11 1[@:] it was a ^very 'hard !p\aper you *'see#* / 511a 15 1320 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* / 511a 15 1330 1 1 a 11 1but I didn`t his ^name wasn`t 'mentioned bef/ore# ./ 511a 15 1340 1 1 a 11 1+^this was the 'thing that sur!pr\ised+ me# / 511a 15 1350 1 1 B 11 1+well the ^sessional qu/estion#+ - / 511a 16 1360 1 1 a 11 1"^wh/at# / 511a 16 1370 1 1 B 11 1on the ^s\/essional 'question# / 511a 16 1380 1 1 a 11 1*"^y\es#* / 511a 16 1390 1 1 B 11 1*have you* ^g/ot it# . / 511a 16 1400 1 1 a 21 1"^I thought that +:when we ((1 to 2 sylls))+ / 511a 16 1410 1 1 B 11 1+((^when we have 'time to))+ 'go into :d\/etails# / 511a 16 1420 1 1 B 11 1^when we`ve !t\/alked a'bout it# / 511a 16 1430 1 2 B 11 1^I`m just 'telling you 'what the :nature of the / 511a 16 1430 1 1 B 11 1":r\/ow was# / 511a 17 1440 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* / 511a 17 1450 1 1 B 11 1*that* ^some of the !joint !h\/onours students# / 511a 17 1460 1 1 B 11 1had ^felt that it +was un"!d\oable#+ / 511a 17 1470 1 1 a 11 1+^th\/at`s 'right#+ . / 511a 17 1480 1 1 a 11 1^th\/at`s 'right# / 511a 17 1490 1 1 B 11 1and they ^h\ad done b/adly# / 511a 17 1500 1 1 B 11 1^that was all :m\ore or _less# / 511a 17 1510 1 1 B 11 1[?@ ?@] . ^tided \ov*er#* / 511a 17 1520 1 1 a 11 1*(clears throat . )* +^y/eah#+ / 511a 18 1530 1 2 B 11 1+I+ ^somewhat 'took [@] . :Stalker`s "!p\art on it / 511a 18 1530 1 1 B 11 1as a *'matter of f/act#* / 511a 18 1540 1 1 a 11 1*^[\m]# . / 511a 18 1550 1 1 a 11 1^[\m]#* / 511a 18 1560 1 1 B 20 1+((1 to 2 sylls))+ / 511a 18 1570 1 1 a 11 1+^well one+ !h\as to ((on these occ/asions))# / 511a 18 1580 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 18 1590 1 1 B 11 1but there were ^other 'people in the dep\artment# / 511a 18 1600 1 1 B 11 1who ^thought it too h/\ard# / 511a 19 1610 1 2 B 11 1in that the ^joint honours 'students were 'being / 511a 19 1610 1 1 B 11 1:treated with'out consider:\ation# / 511a 19 1620 1 1 B 11 1or with^out e"!n\ough# - / 511a 19 1630 1 2 B 12 1and it ^could have de'veloped in [?] and it "^{d\id/ 511a 19 1630 1 1 B 12 1de'velop} in !\/one re'spect# / 511a 19 1640 1 1 B 11 1into a ^b\/it of a 'tension# / 511a 19 1650 1 1 B 11 1be^tween [@] !{R\aymond} [@] and :Gr\aham# - / 511a 19 1660 1 2 B 13 1but ^I think that`s 'now . I ^mean 'that ^y\/ou / 511a 19 1660 1 1 B 13 1know# / 511a 20 1670 1 1 B 11 1^that`s now !\over# . / 511a 20 1680 1 1 B 11 1but "^then this thing !speedily 'came /up# / 511a 20 1690 1 1 B 11 1"^Graham pro'duced this p/aper# / 511a 20 1700 1 1 B 11 1"^Caroline came b/ack# . / 511a 20 1710 1 1 B 11 1I "^saw 'Caroline last w/eek# / 511a 20 1720 1 1 a 11 1^what do you _mean 'Caroline came +"b\ack#+ / 511a 20 1730 1 1 B 11 1+((1 syll))+ ^w\ell# / 511a 20 1740 1 1 B 11 1^she [sh] showed :\up here# / 511a 20 1750 1 2 B 12 1^after her 'first for the ^first time 'after her . / 511a 20 1750 1 1 B 12 1'visit to A!!m\erica# / 511a 21 1760 1 1 a 11 1^y/eah# . / 511a 21 1770 1 1 B 11 1I ^had !sp\oken to her on {the ^ph\one#}# / 511a 21 1780 1 1 B 11 1but I ^hadn`t "!{s\een her} in the :fl\/esh# / 511a 21 1790 1 1 a 11 1^[=m]# / 511a 21 1800 1 1 B 11 1and ^I had a :t\/alk with her# / 511a 21 1810 1 1 B 11 1^she`s 'un"!h\appy about c/ertain 'things# / 511a 21 1820 1 1 B 11 1but is ^basically in 'good !sp\irits# - / 511a 22 1830 1 1 B 11 1^=and [@:]# . / 511a 22 1840 1 1 B 11 1I`ve ^{s\ent her that} :l\etter# / 511a 22 1850 1 1 B 11 1that [@:] I ^sent a 'copy of to y/ou# / 511a 22 1860 1 1 B 11 1[s@] and she was "^at the :m\/eeting# - / 511a 22 1870 1 1 B 11 1she ^put her v\/iew# / 511a 22 1880 1 2 B 11 1I ^think that they`re !all 'fairly "c/\alm a'bout / 511a 22 1880 1 1 B 11 1the 'whole 'thing# . / 511a 22 1890 1 1 a 11 1^r=ight# . / 511a 22 1900 1 1 B 11 1it`s a ^matter of ":{wh\ether} !C\/ampion# / 511a 23 1910 1 1 B 11 1^with C\/aro'line# / 511a 23 1920 1 1 B 11 1^can prod/uce# / 511a 23 1930 1 1 B 11 1an in^telligible pl/an# . / 511a 23 1940 1 1 B 11 1for the ^five to . /eight# / 511a 23 1950 1 1 B 20 1+[@:]+ / 511a 23 1960 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ - / 511a 23 1970 1 1 a 11 1^y\es# / 511a 23 1980 1 1 a 21 1"^I would have ex!pect*ed . [@:m]* / 511a 23 1990 1 1 B 11 1*^((\eight))# - / 511a 23 2000 1 1 B 11 1^t\erm* I 'mean# / 511a 23 2010 1 1 B 21 1+((^term was what !\I said))+ / 511a 23 2020 1 1 a 11 1+^I would have ex!pected+ "Gr\/aham# - / 511a 23 2030 1 1 a 11 1to ^be !rather 'more re:c\alcitrant . on 'this# . / 511a 24 2040 1 1 a 11 1*((than he ^h\as been#))* / 511a 24 2050 1 3 B 12 1*^well he !!put* [@ @] . ^one of 'his [@] . / 511a 24 2050 1 2 B 12 1tre:mendously 'hard to 'under'stand . :p\/apers on / 511a 24 2050 1 1 B 12 1it# . / 511a 24 2060 1 1 B 11 1but [@:] "^that was in f=act# / 511a 24 2070 1 1 B 11 1[d@] de"^b\/ated at 'some 'length# / 511a 24 2080 1 2 B 11 1and - . ^Wisson did ex!tremely 'well at that / 511a 24 2080 1 1 B 11 1:m\/eeting# / 511a 24 2090 1 1 B 11 1^he [@:] re"!t\urned us# / 511a 24 2100 1 1 B 11 1to the ^p\oint# / 511a 24 2110 1 1 B 11 1which ^everybody in the :room . had for:g\otten# - / 511a 24 2120 1 1 B 11 1that ^really the !whole th\/ing was# / 511a 25 2130 1 1 B 11 1to ^ease the :first year :l\/oad# / 511a 25 2140 1 2 B 11 1^and 'to [@:] con"tr\act the sp/an of the "Pl\ato / 511a 25 2140 1 1 B 11 1com'mitment# - . / 511a 25 2150 1 2 B 11 1[@:m] and ^that was what we were sup'posed to be / 511a 25 2150 1 1 B 11 1"!d\oing# / 511a 25 2160 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a 25 2170 1 1 B 11 1but we ^had the !f\irst 'half of the _meeting# . / 511a 25 2180 1 1 B 11 1was ^taken 'up with :\arguing be_tween# / 511a 26 2190 1 2 B 11 1^Trotholm and [@] . :Mondheim and all :th\at kind / 511a 26 2190 1 1 B 11 1of _thing# . / 511a 26 2200 1 1 B 11 1but we ^finally got 'round to s\/eeing 'that# / 511a 26 2210 1 1 B 11 1but in . in "^d\/oing 'so# / 511a 26 2220 1 1 B 11 1we ^saw "wh\at# - / 511a 26 2230 1 1 B 11 1^under 'Stalker`s :pl\an you 'see# / 511a 26 2240 1 1 a 11 1^y/\eah# / 511a 26 2250 1 1 B 11 1we [w] went ^on ((in)) a :d\ifferent 'sense# / 511a 27 2260 1 1 B 11 1but I ^think - . !his [? @:] :p\/aper# / 511a 27 2270 1 1 B 11 1had ^not 'really :fully !s\een# / 511a 27 2280 1 2 B 11 1^what [@:] we :really :were sup!posed to be / 511a 27 2280 1 1 B 11 1+!d\oing# / 511a 27 2290 1 1 a 11 1+((^r\ight# / 511a 27 2300 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight#))+ / 511a 27 2310 1 1 B 11 1I mean+ ^most pr\/obably# / 511a 27 2320 1 1 B 11 1he ^wouldn`t have 'been too :h\/appy# / 511a 27 2330 1 1 B 11 1^if he . "!h\ad ad'dressed him*'self ((to 'that#))*/ 511a 27 2340 1 1 a 11 1*^r\ight# . / 511a 27 2350 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah#* . / 511a 27 2360 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# . / 511a 28 2370 1 1 B 11 1^my im'pression \/is# / 511a 28 2380 1 1 B 11 1that ^if we can :find a a :good "!sch\eme n/ow# / 511a 28 2390 1 1 B 11 1and ^time`s 'running \out# / 511a 28 2400 1 2 B 11 1we ^really "!m\/ust get it con"!!cl\uded / 511a 28 2400 1 1 B 11 1:{^m\ustn`t we#}# / 511a 28 2410 1 1 B 11 1^cos I m=ean# . / 511a 28 2420 1 1 B 11 1((it`s)) ^all for :next !s\ession# / 511a 28 2430 1 1 B 11 1^/\isn`t it# / 511a 28 2440 1 1 a 11 1^Chr/\ist# / 511a 28 2450 1 1 a 11 1^y\es# - / 511a 28 2460 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] - they ^should be all r/\ight# - - / 511a 28 2470 1 1 B 11 1so ^that`s th\at# . / 511a 29 2480 1 2 a 11 1^will 'Stalker be in:v\olved in the Pl/ato / 511a 29 2480 1 1 a 11 1'teaching# / 511a 29 2490 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# / 511a 29 2500 1 1 B 11 1I ^th\ink so# / 511a 29 2510 1 1 a 11 1be^cause - !that was an'other :\issue# / 511a 29 2520 1 1 a 11 1^w\asn`t it# / 511a 29 2530 1 2 a 11 1that . that ^Stalker had :asked to become 'more of / 511a 29 2530 1 1 a 11 1a 'medi\evalist# / 511a 29 2540 1 1 a 20 1+((1 to 2 sylls))+ / 511a 29 2550 1 1 B 11 1+^that`s "!tr\ue#+ . / 511a 29 2560 1 2 B 11 1[@:] he ^has been 'asked to to :take over the / 511a 29 2560 1 1 B 11 1:Tudor ":c\ourse# . / 511a 30 2570 1 1 B 11 1to ^be re'sponsible for this :new "!\option# . / 511a 30 2580 1 1 a 11 1^y/eah# - / 511a 30 2590 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] . ^quite 'how :much 'further 'back in :t\ime#/ 511a 30 2600 1 1 B 11 1he`s ^going to com!m\/it himself# / 511a 30 2610 1 1 B 11 1^is at the *:moment not !cl\ear#* / 511a 30 2620 1 1 a 11 1*he`s ^not coming :in on the* :B\acon# / 511a 30 2630 1 1 B 11 1^I don`t :kn\/ow a'bout 'that {I`m a^fr/aid#}# / 511a 31 2640 1 1 B 11 1I`m ^not 'absolutely cl\ear# / 511a 31 2650 1 1 B 11 1^what his [@:] :mode of oper'ation`s going to :b\e#/ 511a 31 2660 1 2 B 11 1but he ^certainly will have !Tudor and :Plato [? / 511a 31 2660 1 1 B 11 1@:] com:m\itments# - . / 511a 31 2670 1 1 B 20 1[@:m] / 511a 31 2680 1 2 a 12 1^is he [?] do you ^know if he 'happens to be :\/in / 511a 31 2680 1 1 a 12 1today# - / 511a 31 2690 1 1 B 11 1I ^don`t . *. th\ink so#* / 511a 31 2700 1 1 a 11 1*what ^d\ay is it#* / 511a 31 2710 1 1 a 11 1^Fr\iday# . / 511a 32 2720 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 32 2730 1 1 B 11 1+I ^don`t+ th\ink so# / 511a 32 2740 1 1 B 11 1((I mean)) he`s ^not often !\/in you see# / 511a 32 2750 1 1 B 11 1^that`s !h\/is trouble# / 511a 32 2760 1 1 B 11 1he`s ^always a:w\ay# / 511a 32 2770 1 1 a 11 1^[\m]# - / 511a 32 2780 1 1 a 11 1*^y=eah#* / 511a 32 2790 1 1 B 11 1you ^s/ee# / 511a 32 2800 1 1 B 11 1and I *^mean* he !draws up his sch/emes# / 511a 32 2810 1 2 B 11 1and ^often he`s _out of _touch with _what`s going / 511a 32 2810 1 1 B 11 1+!\on# / 511a 32 2820 1 1 B 11 1and ^th\at kind of 'thing#+ / 511a 33 2830 1 1 a 11 1+^r\ight# / 511a 33 2840 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a 33 2850 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight#+ / 511a 33 2860 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# - - / 511a 33 2870 1 1 a 20 1*((3 to 4 sylls))* / 511a 33 2880 1 1 B 11 1^how\ever# / 511a 33 2890 1 1 B 11 1as ^far as *!\I can make /out#* / 511a 33 2900 1 1 B 11 1he`s in ^quite a g/ood frame of {^m/ind#}# / 511a 33 2910 1 1 B 11 1and he ^\ought# / 511a 33 2920 1 1 B 11 1des^pite being [@] !\/irritating a'bout it# / 511a 33 2930 1 2 B 11 1he ^ought to con'sider ((that)) his [@:m] - :point / 511a 33 2930 1 1 B 11 1was !t\aken# / 511a 33 2940 1 1 B 11 1over the ^sessional *r/\ow#* / 511a 33 2950 1 1 a 11 1*"^r\ight#;.*; / 511a 33 2960 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# . / 511a 33 2970 1 1 a 11 1+^r\ight# . / 511a 33 2980 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 34 2990 1 1 a 11 1^fair en\ough#+ / 511a 34 3000 1 1 B 11 1+he ^certainly !ought to con'sider th\/at#+ - / 511a 34 3010 1 1 a 11 1^w=ell# . / 511a 34 3020 1 1 a 20 1*you* / 511a 34 3030 1 1 B 12 1*we`ve* ^had rather [@:] - . ^y\/ou know# / 511a 34 3040 1 2 B 11 1with^out giving !too much a:w\ay to ((3 to 4 / 511a 34 3040 1 1 B 11 1sylls))# / 511a 34 3050 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# . / 511a 34 3060 1 2 a 11 1well he`s ^got a !{v\ery good 'bloke} :doing it / 511a 34 3060 1 1 a 11 1:n\/ow# . / 511a 34 3070 1 1 a 11 1I ^m=ean# / 511a 35 3080 1 1 a 11 1^doing this :\/organizing# / 511a 35 3090 1 1 a 11 1^Godfrey C\ampion# . / 511a 35 3100 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ((now)) ^my o'pinion of 'him goes \up# . / 511a 35 3110 1 1 a 20 1+((2 to 3 sylls))+ / 511a 35 3120 1 2 B 11 1well he ^made a :good 'job +of _that [@:]+ :sch\ool/ 511a 35 3120 1 1 B 11 1teachers` 'thing# / 511a 35 3130 1 1 a 11 1^d\idn`t he# - / 511a 35 3140 1 1 a 11 1^d\idn`t he# / 511a 35 3150 1 1 a 11 1^I thought he ((was v\ery 'good#)) / 511a 35 3160 1 1 B 11 1^y=es# / 511a 35 3170 1 1 B 11 1well ^that`s his b\/est thing# / 511a 35 3180 1 1 B 11 1^that *and* getting 'on with :st\udents and 'so on#/ 511a 36 3190 1 1 a 11 1*^y\es#* - - / 511a 36 3200 1 1 a 11 1^[=m]# - . / 511a 36 3210 1 2 a 11 1[@:m] ^what`s 'his po:sition in the de:p\artment / 511a 36 3210 1 1 a 11 1'now# - / 511a 36 3220 1 1 B 11 1^as re!gards his !t/eaching# / 511a 36 3230 1 1 a 11 1[@] ^n\/o# / 511a 36 3240 1 1 a 11 1his ^j\ob# - / 511a 36 3250 1 1 B 11 1his ^wh/at# / 511a 36 3260 1 1 a 11 1his ^j\ob# . / 511a 36 3270 1 1 B 11 1^w=ell# / 511a 36 3280 1 2 B 11 1he he`s ^going to be :m\/ainly re'sponsible for the/ 511a 36 3280 1 1 B 11 1Pl\ato# / 511a 37 3290 1 1 a 11 1[?@] ^n/o# / 511a 37 3300 1 1 a 11 1^s\/orry# - / 511a 37 3310 1 1 a 11 1^t\enure# - / 511a 37 3320 1 1 B 11 1^\oh# / 511a 37 3330 1 1 B 11 1he`s a he`s ^now !t\enured# - - / 511a 37 3340 1 1 B 11 1we ^put in a pl\/ea# / 511a 37 3350 1 1 B 11 1^intake related pl\ea# / 511a 37 3360 1 1 B 21 1to ^make him - - - / 511a 37 3370 1 1 a 11 1^g\ood# / 511a 37 3380 1 2 B 11 1to ^give him a a a !full-_time - . !permanent / 511a 37 3380 1 1 B 11 1!l\ecture+ship#+ / 511a 37 3390 1 1 a 11 1+^g\ood#+ / 511a 37 3400 1 1 B 11 1and ^that we ac:c\epted# . / 511a 37 3410 1 1 B 11 1so ^h\/is . tra'vail`s# / 511a 38 3420 1 1 B 11 1at an "^/\end# / 511a 38 3430 1 1 a 11 1^g\ood# - / 511a 38 3440 1 1 B 11 1I ^m=ean# / 511a 38 3450 1 1 B 11 1the "^d\/oubts a'bout him# / 511a 38 3460 1 1 B 11 1^no doubt - 'do ex!\ist# / 511a 38 3470 1 1 B 11 1but [@:] there`s ^no . d/\oubt a'bout# / 511a 38 3480 1 1 B 11 1^c\ertain of his *((ab/ilities))#* / 511a 38 3490 1 1 a 11 1*^y/\es#* / 511a 38 3500 1 1 a 11 1^qu\ite# / 511a 38 3510 1 1 a 11 1^qu\ite# - / 511a 38 3520 1 1 B 20 1+[@:m]+ / 511a 38 3530 1 1 a 11 1+^and+ his spr/\ead# . / 511a 38 3540 1 1 a 11 1^y\/ou know# . / 511a 39 3550 1 1 a 12 1[@:] ^he ^he !r\/eally ex_tends# / 511a 39 3560 1 1 a 11 1from ^Plato !right up to Am/erican 'phil# / 511a 39 3570 1 1 a 11 1((and)) con^temporary =English 'phil# / 511a 39 3580 1 1 a 11 1and ^s\o on# . / 511a 39 3590 1 1 a 11 1+(("^dr/ama#))+ / 511a 39 3600 1 2 B 11 1+^funny 'thing+ a'bout this ((year)) was 'when he / 511a 39 3600 1 1 B 11 1'got !t\enure# - / 511a 39 3610 1 1 B 11 1((cos ^1 syll)) was a :very :nice :g\uy# / 511a 39 3620 1 1 B 11 1who was ^always [@:] . 'doing */everything# / 511a 39 3630 1 1 a 11 1*^sorry I didn`t c/atch 'that#* / 511a 40 3640 1 2 B 11 1((2 to 3 sylls)) ^very* very co:oper'ative [@:] . / 511a 40 3640 1 1 B 11 1:worried :g\uy# - / 511a 40 3650 1 1 B 11 1[@:] the ^f\irst thing he _did# / 511a 40 3660 1 1 B 11 1was . re^fuse to !take \on# / 511a 40 3670 1 1 B 11 1the as^sistant [@] 'depart'mental :t\utorship# / 511a 40 3680 1 1 B 11 1(laughs - - ) ^point bl/\ank# - / 511a 40 3690 1 1 B 11 1I ^m=ean [@:]# - / 511a 40 3700 1 1 B 20 1+it it was a / 511a 40 3710 1 1 a 20 1+(laughs - - )+ / 511a 40 3720 2 1 B 22 1it was a ^bit of a+ !change of [@] - / 511a 40 3730 1 1 a 11 1^y=es# / 511a 41 3720 1 1(B 12 1of ^t\/one there# / 511a 41 3740 1 1 a 20 1(laughs - - . ) . / 511a 41 3750 1 2 B 11 1there ^is a 'thing that I :m\ight just m/\ention to/ 511a 41 3750 1 1 B 11 1you# / 511a 41 3760 1 3 B 12 1I`m [w@] I`m a ^bit "w/\orried a'bout ((2 to 3 / 511a 41 3760 1 2 B 12 1sylls)) ^I don`t 'want to in"v/\olve you in ((it)) / 511a 41 3760 1 1 B 12 1n/ow# - / 511a 41 3770 1 1 B 11 1*. ((it`s your)) "^st\udy 'leave#* / 511a 41 3780 1 1 a 11 1*^n\o but# / 511a 41 3790 1 1 a 11 1((I`d ^like)) to be* :kept up to d/ate# / 511a 41 3800 1 1 a 20 1+((4 to 6 sylls))+ / 511a 42 3810 1 1 B 11 1+all ^r\ight# . / 511a 42 3820 1 1 B 12 1well as+ ^soon as I`ve [st@?] - ^r\ight# . / 511a 42 3830 1 1 a 11 1*^[\m]# . / 511a 42 3840 1 1 a 11 1^[\m]#* / 511a 42 3850 1 2 B 11 1*[@] you . [@:m]* . be^cause I !do want your / 511a 42 3850 1 1 B 11 1h/\elp# / 511a 42 3860 1 1 B 11 1[@:] and to ^see that we`re :getting it :r\ight# / 511a 42 3870 1 1 B 11 1because there ^isn`t 'much :t\/ime for 'that# / 511a 42 3880 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# / 511a 42 3890 1 1 B 11 1and . ^Campion 'has sub:mitted a a !first ":p\aper#/ 511a 43 3900 1 1 B 11 1+. on the ^views+ of that :l\etter# - / 511a 43 3910 1 1 II 20 1+(telephone rings - )+ / 511a 43 3920 1 1 a 11 1*((ex^cuse)) me !one m\oment#* / 511a 43 3930 1 1 B 11 1*do you ^want me to go* \out# / 511a 43 3940 1 1 a 11 1"^no no 'no no n\o# - / 511a 43 3950 1 1 a 20 1(speaks on telephone - - - ) - - / 511a 43 3960 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] I`ll ^st\udy th/at# . / 511a 43 3970 1 1 B 11 1and ^keep you [@:] . p\osted# / 511a 43 3980 1 1 B 11 1because I ^d\o think it imp/ortant# / 511a 44 3990 1 2 B 11 1es^pecially 'now that you`re - :more or less / 511a 44 3990 1 1 B 11 1"!b\ack here# . / 511a 44 4000 1 1 a 11 1^[\m]# / 511a 44 4010 1 2 B 11 1for ^you to _be [? @:] 'looking !\after 'all / 511a 44 4010 1 1 B 11 1'this# - / 511a 44 4020 1 1 B 11 1as ^well as :m\e# / 511a 44 4030 1 1 B 21 1be^cause - - / 511a 44 4040 1 1 a 11 1^w/ell# / 511a 44 4050 1 1 a 11 1((^two *can do th\is#))* / 511a 44 4060 1 1 B 11 1*I ^haven`t 'felt* !h\appy a'bout# / 511a 44 4070 1 1 B 11 1the ^way it`s :g\one [@:] r/ecently# / 511a 44 4080 1 2 B 11 1al^though there are !no spe'cific 'reasons . for / 511a 44 4080 1 1 B 11 1al/\arm# / 511a 45 4090 1 1 B 11 1as ^far as /I can 'see# / 511a 45 4100 1 1 B 11 1in ^fact you could !\/even 'say# / 511a 45 4110 1 1 B 11 1it ^seems to be 'going all !r\ight# / 511a 45 4120 1 1 a 11 1it ^seems to !me +f/\ine#+ / 511a 45 4130 1 1 B 11 1+but+ I ^mean I !feel *[a] 'out of !t\ouch# / 511a 45 4140 1 1 B 21 1with ^some of the* / 511a 45 4150 1 2 a 11 1*I ^I`m not 'getting any* :b\/ack'draught [@:] of / 511a 45 4150 1 1 a 11 1+'anything#+ / 511a 46 4160 1 1 B 11 1+^[\m]#+ / 511a 46 4170 1 1 B 11 1well ^that l\/etter I 'sent 'round# / 511a 46 4180 1 1 B 11 1was per^haps a 'little un":g\uarded# - / 511a 46 4190 1 1 B 11 1I ^sent it 'round de!l\/iberately# / 511a 46 4200 1 2 B 11 1to ^stop [@:] con!clusions a'bout ((the)) tu'torial/ 511a 46 4200 1 1 B 11 1as:s\essment# / 511a 46 4210 1 2 B 11 1and and to the ex^tent of . [m] :making ((it)) / 511a 46 4210 1 1 B 11 1:cl\ear# / 511a 46 4220 1 2 B 11 1that ^things had !not been :right in the !p\ast in / 511a 46 4220 1 1 B 11 1m/y view# - / 511a 46 4230 1 2 B 11 1and that ^if they [w] "!{w\orry a'bout} the / 511a 46 4230 1 1 B 11 1"!w\/eighting# / 511a 47 4240 1 1 B 11 1they should ^also m\aybe w/orry# / 511a 47 4250 1 2 B 11 1and ^this is what !Quantocks is now :pr\/essing / 511a 47 4250 1 1 B 11 1'for# - / 511a 47 4260 1 1 B 11 1^worry about the _whole "!m\ark# . / 511a 47 4270 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# - - / 511a 47 4280 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* / 511a 47 4290 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 47 4300 1 2 B 11 1I mean ^not just [dhi:] the :question of *[@:] / 511a 47 4300 1 1 B 11 1!how* it`s "!w\eighted# . / 511a 47 4310 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# - / 511a 47 4320 1 1 a 11 1and ^have \/every'body# / 511a 47 4330 1 1 a 11 1in "^l/\ine about it# . / 511a 47 4340 1 1 a 11 1^so that _there`s +there`s a . !common "!p\olicy#+ / 511a 48 4350 1 1 B 11 1+^th/at`s right# / 511a 48 4360 1 1 B 11 1so [?] ^\oh# / 511a 48 4370 1 1 B 11 1((^y\es#)) . / 511a 48 4380 1 1 B 12 1the+ "^f\/irst 'thing that 'came you ^s\ee# . / 511a 48 4390 1 1 B 11 1^Donald !puts his :v\iew that [@:]# . / 511a 48 4400 1 1 B 22 1if ^we`re to [r @:] ^try to :work *((1 syll))* / 511a 48 4410 1 1 a 11 1*^wh\/o* 'puts his 'view# . / 511a 48 4420 1 1 B 11 1[? @] ^Qu\antocks# . / 511a 48 4430 1 1 a 11 1+^y/eah#+ / 511a 49 4440 1 1 B 11 1+"^n\on+-stop th/ing# / 511a 49 4450 1 1 B 11 1in ^which you "!ch\allenge the 'mark# / 511a 49 4460 1 1 B 11 1at a ^late st\/age# / 511a 49 4470 1 1 B 11 1[@:] ((at a)) ^departmental m/eeting# / 511a 49 4480 1 1 B 11 1^this was 'likely to 'be un!j\ust# . / 511a 49 4490 1 1 B 11 1be^cause y\/ou know# / 511a 49 4500 1 1 B 11 1^wh\o would be th/ere# / 511a 49 4510 1 1 B 11 1and ^all th\at# - - / 511a 49 4520 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] . ^w\ell# / 511a 49 4530 1 1 B 11 1at ^\any 'time# / 511a 49 4540 1 2 B 11 1so ((we)) ^reached a 'rather :un'just !mark / 511a 49 4540 1 1 B 11 1!\anyway# / 511a 49 4550 1 1 B 11 1because ^people like M\/ondheim# / 511a 50 4560 1 2 B 11 1were ^giving . [m] _marks to 'people on the 'basis / 511a 50 4560 1 1 B 11 1of [@:] 'cheering them \up# / 511a 50 4570 1 1 B 20 1and *((6 to 8 sylls))* / 511a 50 4580 1 1 a 11 1*^quite qu\ite# / 511a 50 4590 1 1 a 11 1^qu\ite#* / 511a 50 4600 1 1 a 12 1^this - "^y\eah# / 511a 50 4610 1 1 B 20 1+((6 to 8 sylls))+ / 511a 50 4620 1 1 a 12 1+and ^this ^this is !!strongly /\argued# / 511a 50 4630 1 1 a 11 1^/over+ the y\ears# / 511a 50 4640 1 1 a 11 1^{/oh} "y/\es# / 511a 50 4650 1 1 a 11 1*I mean ^not ((merely))* [@] adm/itting it# / 511a 50 4660 1 1 B 11 1*^y\eah# . / 511a 50 4670 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah#* - / 511a 50 4680 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 51 4690 1 2 a 11 1and there there it ^there`s a j/\ustifi'cation / 511a 51 4690 1 1 a 11 1+'for it# / 511a 51 4700 1 1 a 11 1you ^kn/ow#+ / 511a 51 4710 1 1 B 11 1+^y\es# / 511a 51 4720 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# / 511a 51 4730 1 1 B 12 1you+ can ^see the ^see the *:p\oint#* / 511a 51 4740 1 1 a 12 1*but* [@] the ^[dhi: . dhi:] . the ^th\ing /is# / 511a 51 4750 1 1 a 11 1that . "^with 'bringing /in# / 511a 51 4760 1 1 a 11 1this e^lev_enth m/ark# / 511a 51 4770 1 1 a 11 1^on our . [@:m] !f\iles as'sessment# . / 511a 51 4780 1 1 a 11 1we`ve "^never gone b/ack# / 511a 52 4790 1 1 a 11 1and ^properly !re!v\iewed# . / 511a 52 4800 1 1 a 11 1the ^nature of tu!t\/orial 'marks# / 511a 52 4810 1 2 a 11 1and ^therefore . !whence we de"r/\ive the e'leventh/ 511a 52 4810 1 1 a 11 1'mark# - / 511a 52 4820 1 2 a 11 1and ^so _there`s there`s _been this "gh/\astly / 511a 52 4820 1 1 a 11 1j/ob# / 511a 52 4830 1 1 a 11 1of ^reinter!pr\eting# / 511a 52 4840 1 1 a 11 1^all these 'bloody '[tju:] 'tutor`s m\arks# - / 511a 52 4850 1 1 a 11 1I ^m=ean# / 511a 52 4860 1 1 a 11 1it`s "^bad en\/ough# - / 511a 52 4870 1 1 a 11 1^but in!\/evitable# - / 511a 52 4880 1 1 a 11 1that ^two !t\/utors# . / 511a 52 4890 1 1 a 11 1would ^have a !different as:s\essment# / 511a 53 4900 1 1 a 11 1on the ^same !p\upil# / 511a 53 4910 1 2 a 11 1but pro^vided they`re as'sessing on the 'same sort / 511a 53 4910 1 1 a 11 1of +"!b\asis#+ / 511a 53 4920 1 1 B 11 1+^pr\inc+iple :{^y\eah#}# / 511a 53 4930 1 1 a 11 1"^r\ight# / 511a 53 4940 1 1 a 20 1*((so that you 2 to 3 sylls))* / 511a 53 4950 1 1 B 11 1*^y\eah# / 511a 53 4960 1 1 B 11 1well ^actually the* :point of that +:l\/etter# / 511a 53 4970 1 1 a 11 1+^r\ight# / 511a 53 4980 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah#+ / 511a 53 4990 1 1 B 11 1was ^simply+ to s/ay# / 511a 53 5000 1 1 B 11 1that ^people should 'give real !m\arks# / 511a 54 5010 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* / 511a 54 5020 1 1 B 11 1*((and))* ^not [@:] . :p\astoral +'marks# / 511a 54 5030 1 1 B 11 1or . ^y\/ou 'know#+ / 511a 54 5040 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah# . / 511a 54 5050 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# . / 511a 54 5060 1 1 a 11 1"^r\ight#+ / 511a 54 5070 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a 54 5080 2 2 a 24 1^they can "!cheer them they can ^cheer their / 511a 54 5080 2 1 a 24 1'students :up in \other *_ways ^than ^than [@]* / 511a 54 5090 1 1 B 11 1*^y\eah# / 511a 54 5100 1 1 B 11 1^th\at`s* right# / 511a 54 5110 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 55 5080 1 1(a 14 1'giving a m\ark# / 511a 55 5120 1 2 B 12 1[@] I ^think that [@] !that was :j/ust [?] - ^that / 511a 55 5120 1 1 B 12 1came /up# / 511a 55 5130 1 1 B 11 1you see I ^didn`t want to have and s\o on# / 511a 55 5140 1 1 B 11 1[@] there "^is a a a "!c\urrent _difficulty# / 511a 55 5150 1 1 B 11 1which has [@] ^\irritated _me# / 511a 55 5160 1 1 B 11 1there`s a ^l\/etter 'here# / 511a 55 5170 1 1 B 11 1which I ^won`t sh\/ow you# / 511a 55 5180 1 1 B 11 1un^less you 'want to :r\ead it# / 511a 55 5190 1 1 B 11 1from ^half a 'dozen or :ten "!st\udents# - / 511a 55 5200 1 1 B 12 1[@] who ^sat [dhi: @] - the ro^m\antics 'paper# - / 511a 56 5210 1 1 B 11 1^these are 'all kind of [@:] . :femin\istical# / 511a 56 5220 1 1 B 11 1ad^{v\anced 'type} !st\udents# / 511a 56 5230 1 1 B 11 1^who . !took a !c\ourse# / 511a 56 5240 1 1 B 11 1from that ^{w\oman [@]} . :Carol !S\anksh# - / 511a 56 5250 1 1 B 11 1which was ^given with!{\out} :cl\earance# / 511a 56 5260 1 2 B 12 1from [@:?] . from the ^other [k] ((her)) ^((other))/ 511a 56 5260 1 1 B 12 1!c\olleagues# / 511a 56 5270 1 1 B 11 1a^part from the !course co!\/ordinator# . / 511a 56 5280 1 2 B 11 1[@:] at the ^time ((when a_bout)) the ro:mantics / 511a 56 5280 1 1 B 11 1[w] were :last !t\aught# / 511a 57 5290 1 1 B 11 1((which was the)) ^time but !\one# - - / 511a 57 5300 1 1 B 11 1[@:] ^they had a :course on ":w\omen# / 511a 57 5310 1 1 B 11 1in the Ro^m\antic 'period# / 511a 57 5320 1 1 B 11 1((or)) ^something like th\at you see# / 511a 57 5330 1 1 B 11 1^th\at kind of thing# / 511a 57 5340 1 1 B 11 1well ^I don`t ap":pr\ove of 'that# / 511a 57 5350 1 1 B 11 1[ae] as a . ^subject for a c=ourse# / 511a 57 5360 1 1 B 11 1but ^how\ever# / 511a 57 5370 1 1 B 11 1it was "^m/ounted# / 511a 57 5380 1 2 B 12 1and ^Carol 'did it ((several sylls)) and of ^course/ 511a 57 5380 1 1 B 12 1I ac!c\epted it# - / 511a 58 5390 1 1 B 11 1well there ^wasn`t a :qu\/estion 'saying# / 511a 58 5400 1 2 B 11 1[hn] ^how a'bout :{w\omen} in the Ro!m\antic / 511a 58 5400 1 1 B 11 1'period 'there# / 511a 58 5410 1 1 B 11 1and there`s ^this of"{f\ensive} "l\/etter you 'see#/ 511a 58 5420 1 1 B 11 1^s=aying 'how# - / 511a 58 5430 1 1 B 11 1[@] ^this is dis:gr\aceful# / 511a 58 5440 1 2 B 12 1and ((^demon'strates de'grees are)) - well the / 511a 58 5440 1 1 B 12 1"^f\irst answer /is# / 511a 58 5450 1 2 B 11 1that ^if you !w\anted to 'write on th/at / 511a 58 5450 1 1 B 11 1'subject# - / 511a 59 5460 1 1 B 11 1there were ^three or "!!f\our questions# / 511a 59 5470 1 1 a 11 1*"^r\ight# . / 511a 59 5480 1 1 a 11 1I`m "^s\ure there 'must have been# / 511a 59 5490 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a 59 5500 1 1 B 11 1*^you could ((have !\used#)) / 511a 59 5510 1 1 B 11 1( - giggles) ^well there w/\ere# / 511a 59 5520 1 1 B 11 1^some of them* !d\id# / 511a 59 5530 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah#* / 511a 59 5540 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 59 5550 1 1 B 11 1[@] and [@] ^\also# / 511a 59 5560 1 1 B 11 1I [?] I [?] . I`ve been ^t\old by 'Langendaen# / 511a 60 5570 1 1 B 11 1I must ^write a - :{k\indly} :\answer# / 511a 60 5580 1 1 B 11 1^s=aying [@:]# - . / 511a 60 5590 1 1 B 11 1^you`re !{s\o} :r\ight# / 511a 60 5600 1 1 B 11 1and [? @:] +but [@:] I ^don`t ap:pr\ove of 'that# / 511a 60 5610 1 1 B 11 1at ^\all#+ / 511a 60 5620 1 1 a 11 1+^n\o# . / 511a 60 5630 1 2 a 13 1^that you((`ve)) ^[s@:t] you can ^write a :kindly+ / 511a 60 5630 1 1 a 13 1:\answer# / 511a 60 5640 1 1 a 11 1with^out saying 'you`re so :r\ight# - . / 511a 60 5650 1 2 a 12 1[@:m @] ^you ^you must "!{n\ever} say :th\at / 511a 60 5650 1 1 a 12 1*Ralph# / 511a 61 5660 1 1 a 20 1((6 to 8 sylls))* / 511a 61 5670 1 1 B 11 1*^n\o# / 511a 61 5680 1 1 B 13 1well ^I ^I`m not I`m ^p\/ara'phrasing* 'Bill# / 511a 61 5690 1 1 B 11 1+^he wouldn`t ac:c\ept# / 511a 61 5700 1 2 B 11 1that we ^should ((!necessarily be :3 sylls)) give / 511a 61 5700 1 1 B 11 1'in to their !\arguments#+ / 511a 61 5710 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah# . / 511a 61 5720 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# - / 511a 61 5730 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# - - / 511a 61 5740 1 1 a 11 1^n\o#+ / 511a 61 5750 1 1 B 12 1^I think just ^think they`re !wr/\ong# / 511a 62 5760 1 1 a 11 1*^[\m]#* / 511a 62 5770 1 1 B 11 1now ^why *should* th\ey 'write# / 511a 62 5780 1 1 B 11 1^saying 'what the :qu\estions should +'be#;.+; / 511a 62 5790 1 1 B 11 1^\any'way# / 511a 62 5800 1 1 a 11 1+^[\m]# / 511a 62 5810 1 1 a 11 1^[\m]#+ - / 511a 62 5820 1 1 a 11 1^\abso'lutely# / 511a 62 5830 1 1 a 20 1*((2 sylls))* / 511a 62 5840 1 1 B 11 1*I ^m\ean# . / 511a 62 5850 1 2 B 12 1^if* they ^if they`d :made a :study of a !major / 511a 62 5850 1 1 B 12 1!w\ork th/ere# . / 511a 62 5860 1 2 B 12 1and ^there was !no way of '[rek@g] . ^no way at / 511a 62 5860 1 1 B 12 1"/\all# / 511a 62 5870 1 1 B 11 1of ^wr\/iting *a'bout* it# / 511a 63 5880 1 1 B 11 1^that would 'be a :different +!st\ory#+ / 511a 63 5890 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* - / 511a 63 5900 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 63 5910 1 1 B 20 1and I believe *that`s ((1 to 2 sylls))* / 511a 63 5920 1 1 a 11 1*^no 'question on* :R\ousseau or 'something# / 511a 63 5930 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 63 5940 1 1 B 11 1+^th\at`s+ right# / 511a 63 5950 1 1 B 20 1[dhae] / 511a 63 5960 1 1 a 11 1*^[\m]#* / 511a 63 5970 1 1 B 11 1^that`s come *!\up* {with ^Sch\elling#}# . / 511a 64 5980 1 2 B 11 1in an ^\earlier 'paper - {^by the w\ay#} - {^this / 511a 64 5980 1 1 B 11 1y=ear#}# - . / 511a 64 5990 1 1 B 11 1^Cedric has 'had a . com:pl\aint# . / 511a 64 6000 1 1 B 11 1^relative to +((Sch\elling#))+ / 511a 64 6010 1 1 a 11 1+there was ^no+ _question on _Sch\elling# / 511a 64 6020 1 1 B 11 1^not a :pr\oper 'one# / 511a 64 6030 1 1 B 11 1^s\omething like 'that# / 511a 64 6040 1 1 a 11 1^J/\esus# . / 511a 64 6050 1 1 a 11 1^th\at ((must have 'come as a surpr/ise#)) / 511a 65 6060 1 1 B 11 1that ^must be :not a :pr\oper 'one# / 511a 65 6070 1 1 a 11 1*^[=m]#* / 511a 65 6080 1 1 B 11 1^\anyway# / 511a 65 6090 1 1 B 11 1^I *only* 'got it from him +((:v\/erbally#))+ / 511a 65 6100 1 1 a 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 65 6110 1 1 a 11 1^[=m]# / 511a 65 6120 1 2 B 11 1[@:] but I ((^don`t think there`s :any)) !pr\oblem / 511a 65 6120 1 1 B 11 1on th/at# / 511a 65 6130 1 1 B 11 1I`m *just* ^m\entioning it# / 511a 66 6140 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah#* - / 511a 66 6150 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# - / 511a 66 6160 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] - ^\anyway# / 511a 66 6170 1 1 B 11 1there`s ^th\at# - / 511a 66 6180 1 2 B 12 1now ^what about this I`m ^worried a'bout this / 511a 66 6180 1 1 B 12 1se:c\/urity 'thing# / 511a 66 6190 1 2 B 11 1I was dis^tressed that this :thing should have / 511a 66 6190 1 1 B 11 1h/appened# / 511a 66 6200 1 1 B 11 1when ^you were a!w\/ay# / 511a 66 6210 1 2 B 11 1((and)) it ^should have :happened to your [@:] / 511a 66 6210 1 1 B 11 1!d\oor there# - / 511a 66 6220 1 1 a 11 1^w\ell# / 511a 66 6230 1 1 a 11 1I I "^w\asn`t a'way /actually# / 511a 67 6240 1 1 a 13 1^I ^I was - ^w\ell# / 511a 67 6250 1 1 a 11 1^I was !back on :S\unday# - / 511a 67 6260 1 1 a 20 1+[@:m]+ / 511a 67 6270 1 2 B 11 1+^well+ I`m !talking about the ":pr\evious / 511a 67 6270 1 1 B 11 1'break-in# / 511a 67 6280 1 1 B 11 1^you weren`t *{h\ere}* !th\en# / 511a 67 6290 1 1 a 11 1*^s\ure#* . / 511a 67 6300 1 1 a 11 1^th\/at`s right# / 511a 67 6310 1 1 B 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 67 6320 1 2 a 11 1+be^cause+ !that was !only :v\andalism :{^w\asn`t / 511a 67 6320 1 1 a 11 1it#}# - - / 511a 67 6330 1 1 a 11 1there was ^{n\othing} :t\/aken# / 511a 67 6340 1 1 a 21 1there was ^no 'sign *that :we might have 'been* / 511a 68 6350 1 1 B 11 1*^w\ell# . / 511a 68 6360 1 2 B 11 1we`ve ^not been 'able to* est/\ablish that / 511a 68 6360 1 1 B 11 1'anything was :t/aken# / 511a 68 6370 1 1 B 11 1or ^=indeed# / 511a 68 6380 1 1 B 11 1a^part from the door inter!f\ered with# . / 511a 68 6390 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# - / 511a 68 6400 1 1 B 11 1^b=ut [@:]# . / 511a 68 6410 1 1 B 11 1we ^don`t !{kn/\ow} who :d\/id it# . / 511a 68 6420 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# - / 511a 69 6430 1 1 B 11 1you ^s=ee# / 511a 69 6440 1 1 B 11 1the ^picture :\/is# / 511a 69 6450 1 2 B 11 1that there ^was a !nominalist 'society :p\arty / 511a 69 6450 1 1 B 11 1h/ere# / 511a 69 6460 1 1 B 11 1and a "^pl\ay was put /on# - - / 511a 69 6470 1 1 B 11 1"^several !st\/aff members were 'there# / 511a 69 6480 1 1 B 11 1^two or :thr\ee of them# . / 511a 69 6490 1 1 B 11 1^no d/oubt# . / 511a 69 6500 1 2 B 11 1^drinking a'long with :some of [dhi:] sur:v\/iving / 511a 69 6500 1 1 B 11 1'students# / 511a 69 6510 1 1 B 11 1were ^here . until !l\ate# - / 511a 69 6520 1 2 B 11 1I ^mean !two or 'three in the !m\orning - - / 511a 69 6520 1 1 B 11 1{^pr\obably#}# - - / 511a 70 6530 1 1 B 11 1but ^that`s 'only 'just [?] . :g\ossip# - - / 511a 70 6540 1 1 B 11 1^[/@:m]# / 511a 70 6550 1 1 B 11 1^s\/o that# - / 511a 70 6560 1 1 B 11 1^{pr\obably} un:til that !p\oint# / 511a 70 6570 1 1 B 11 1[@:] there ^were 'teachers a"r/\ound# - / 511a 70 6580 1 1 B 11 1I ^haven`t 'heard any re:p/\orts a'bout# / 511a 70 6590 1 1 B 12 1[@ ? @] . ^their 'witnessing any any ^br\/eakages# / 511a 70 6600 1 1 B 11 1but ^ones I !kn\/ew to be a'round# / 511a 70 6610 1 1 B 11 1[@:] with ^whom I`ve sp\/oken# / 511a 70 6620 1 1 B 11 1^didn`t 'seem to n\otice anything like 'that# . / 511a 71 6630 1 1 B 11 1[~] - ^\anyway# / 511a 71 6640 1 1 B 11 1^it it !{h\appened} in the :small !h\ours# / 511a 71 6650 1 1 B 11 1it [?] ^m\/ust have 'happened# / 511a 71 6660 1 2 B 11 1^after !ten o`cl\ock {ac^cording to / 511a 71 6660 1 1 B 11 1!Tr\otholm#}# - - / 511a 71 6670 1 2 B 11 1[@:m] it ^may have been :one of these :students . / 511a 71 6670 1 1 B 11 1"!dr\unk# - . / 511a 71 6680 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] . ^either !possibly with a :g=irl# / 511a 71 6690 1 1 B 11 1^coming down_stairs to . !have a !k\iss off her# . / 511a 71 6700 1 1 B 11 1^something of th\at kind# - / 511a 72 6710 1 1 B 11 1and ^dr\unkenly# . / 511a 72 6720 1 1 B 11 1de^ciding :this might 'be a . 'possible !pl\ace# . / 511a 72 6730 1 1 B 11 1^{th\at might be} !\one expla'nation# - / 511a 72 6740 1 2 B 11 1but ^I mean :I don`t "kn/\ow what the 'explanation / 511a 72 6740 1 1 B 11 1'is# / 511a 72 6750 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# / 511a 72 6760 1 1 B 21 1the ^only 'thing that`s . "!\odd a'bout +about+ / 511a 72 6770 1 1 a 11 1+they+ ^didn`t get !!\/in you 'know# - / 511a 73 6780 1 1 B 11 1^didn`t get into :wh\at# . / 511a 73 6790 1 2 a 11 1[dh@n? dhi: ?] they [?] - there`s ^no 'evidence / 511a 73 6790 1 1 a 11 1that [?] they they got "!\/into the 'office# - . / 511a 73 6800 1 1 a 21 1they *^just . "!bashed* / 511a 73 6810 1 1 B 11 1*they ^broke the :outer* !d\/oor# . / 511a 73 6820 1 1 B 11 1^did they n/ot# - / 511a 73 6830 1 2 a 11 1^I thought they`d 'only b/ashed the p\anel / 511a 73 6830 1 1 a 11 1'through# - - / 511a 73 6840 1 1 B 11 1oh well ^I thought 'they got !\in# / 511a 74 6850 1 1 a 11 1^y=es# / 511a 74 6860 1 1 a 12 1well it ^could`ve ^could`ve b\een# / 511a 74 6870 1 1 B 13 1well ^he the ^guy [?] you ^s=ee# - - / 511a 74 6880 1 1 B 11 1^I didn`t 'call . the po:l\ice# / 511a 74 6890 1 2 B 11 1be^cause [@:m] . the 'man had 'started to "m\end / 511a 74 6890 1 1 B 11 1it# / 511a 74 6900 1 1 B 11 1by ^ten o`cl\/ock# / 511a 74 6910 1 1 B 11 1or when^ever it *w/as#* / 511a 74 6920 1 1 a 11 1*^[=m]#* / 511a 74 6930 1 1 B 11 1the ^following m\orning# / 511a 74 6940 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 75 6950 1 1 B 11 1when ^\I +got here#+ / 511a 75 6960 1 2 a 11 1+well there+ was ^one 'busted in :{Ch\emistry / 511a 75 6960 1 1 a 11 1de'partment} as *":w\ell#* / 511a 75 6970 1 1 B 11 1*I* ^y\eah# / 511a 75 6980 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# . / 511a 75 6990 1 1 B 12 1there ^[wo?] ^inci!d=entally# / 511a 75 7000 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] - ^I wasn`t !\at this 'party# / 511a 75 7010 1 1 a 11 1^n\o# - - . / 511a 75 7020 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] - the ^only . :point of :\/oddity 'is# / 511a 76 7030 1 1 B 11 1that there ^was . !\/ample 'reason to sup{^p/ose#}#/ 511a 76 7040 1 1 B 11 1that a ^scr\ew-driver had been 'used# - - / 511a 76 7050 1 1 B 11 1and of ^course 'breaking 'out a :d\oor# - - / 511a 76 7060 1 1 B 11 1[@:m] which ^d\/oesn`t suggest# / 511a 76 7070 1 1 B 11 1^drunken !st\udents# - . / 511a 76 7080 1 2 B 21 1and ^then we _have this !break-in up_stairs *((3 to/ 511a 76 7080 1 1 B 21 14 sylls))* / 511a 76 7090 1 1 a 11 1*^y\eah# / 511a 76 7100 1 1 a 11 1now "^th/at`s* {the ^/one#}# / 511a 76 7110 1 1 a 11 1that ^I mean by se:c\urity# / 511a 76 7120 1 1 a 11 1you ^s=ee# / 511a 76 7130 1 1 a 11 1the the "^odd 'drunken :v\/andal# / 511a 77 7140 1 2 a 12 1it ^doesn`t 'seem to :me that !you can . ^you can / 511a 77 7140 1 1 a 12 1[@: - @ ?] !pr\ogramme f/or# / 511a 77 7150 1 1 B 11 1^[\m]# / 511a 77 7160 1 1 a 11 1^and . in !\any c/ase# . / 511a 77 7170 1 1 a 11 1[i @: @] in ^th\is instance you s/ee# . / 511a 77 7180 1 2 a 11 1there was "^definitely :nothing :stolen from / 511a 77 7180 1 1 a 11 1!\us# . / 511a 77 7190 1 2 a 11 1be^cause . [@ ?] our :people 'absolutely :scr\eened/ 511a 77 7190 1 1 a 11 1the the the th/ing# . / 511a 78 7200 1 1 B 20 1+((4 to 6 sylls))+ / 511a 78 7210 1 2 a 11 1+there ^wasn`t _even "anything+ dist/\urbed 'never / 511a 78 7210 1 1 a 11 1mind 'anything /else# . / 511a 78 7220 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# / 511a 78 7230 1 1 a 11 1but . [@:m] ^this 'last week"/\end# - - / 511a 78 7240 1 2 a 11 1[@:] was ^something "!!v\ery much more / 511a 78 7240 1 1 a 11 1'serious# - . / 511a 78 7250 1 2 a 12 1[@:m] - ^where . (clears throat . ) ((you)) / 511a 78 7250 1 1 a 12 1^kn/ow# . / 511a 79 7260 1 1 a 11 1^people came :\in# / 511a 79 7270 1 1 a 11 1and ^certainly in "y/\our 'office# - - / 511a 79 7280 1 1 a 11 1[~] and in "^\/Ann`s 'office# / 511a 79 7290 1 1 B 11 1^y=eah# . / 511a 79 7300 1 1 a 11 1[@ @:m] . a ^jimmy or 'something 'had been :\used# / 511a 79 7310 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# / 511a 79 7320 1 1 B 11 1^that`s *r\ight# / 511a 79 7330 1 1 B 11 1^y\es#* / 511a 79 7340 1 1 a 11 1*and it* it is ^so app/\alling you s/ee that# . / 511a 79 7350 1 1 a 11 1^the a!mount of "m/\oney st/olen# . / 511a 79 7360 1 1 a 11 1was "^tr\ivial# - - / 511a 80 7370 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^but the a:mount of "!d\amage d/one# / 511a 80 7380 1 1 a 11 1^must be a 'hundred "!qu\id`s worth# . / 511a 80 7390 1 1 B 11 1^y\es# - / 511a 80 7400 1 1 a 12 1[@:m] - - ^now in [a:xai] ^/\our c/ase# / 511a 80 7410 1 1 a 11 1^down !h\ere# . / 511a 80 7420 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^where !more !m\/oney was 'stolen# / 511a 80 7430 1 1 a 11 1a^bout !five !qu\id - I th/ink# - / 511a 80 7440 1 2 a 11 1[@:m - @:?@] there was ^no !damage done at / 511a 80 7440 1 1 a 11 1"/\all# - / 511a 80 7450 1 1 a 12 1^they 'had :[dh dhi:] the ^ch/ap# / 511a 81 7460 1 1 a 21 1had ^obviously - [@:m +@+] / 511a 81 7470 1 1 B 11 1+^s\orry#+ / 511a 81 7480 1 1 B 11 1^just a !m\inute 'David# / 511a 81 7490 1 2 B 13 1^what [?] ^what are you [?] ^what are you t\alking / 511a 81 7490 1 1 B 13 1about# / 511a 81 7500 1 1 B 11 1^five *!p\ounds#* / 511a 81 7510 1 1 a 11 1*"^that* was :this week:\end# - / 511a 81 7520 1 1 a 11 1this ^last week\end# - / 511a 81 7530 1 1 B 11 1^where was the 'five !p\ounds taken ((from))# . / 511a 81 7540 1 1 a 11 1^from the !\office# - - / 511a 82 7550 1 1 B 11 1((I)) ^didn`t kn/\ow th/at# / 511a 82 7560 1 1 a 11 1^y\eah# . / 511a 82 7570 1 1 a 11 1^it`s be{tw\een} 'four and 'five p\ounds# - - / 511a 82 7580 1 2 a 11 1[@:m - ? @:] . and . [?] it [w@th - - @:] . "^{n\o / 511a 82 7580 1 1 a 11 1'damage _done} at :\all# . / 511a 82 7590 1 1 B 11 1^how did they get !\in# - / 511a 82 7600 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^/obviously# / 511a 82 7610 1 1 a 11 1a ^college 'close k\ey# . / 511a 82 7620 1 1 a 11 1^somebody that has a 'college 'close k\ey# . / 511a 82 7630 1 1 a 11 1((there was)) ^no damage 'done to the d\oor# - / 511a 83 7640 1 1 a 11 1^they !got into the /office# . / 511a 83 7650 1 1 a 11 1"^in . a 'cupboard like th/at# / 511a 83 7660 1 1 a 11 1^there`s a . !row of :h\ooks# . / 511a 83 7670 1 2 a 11 1^with there !must be about "!forty k\eys / 511a 83 7670 1 1 a 11 1hanging# - - / 511a 83 7680 1 1 a 11 1[@:] but ^\/one of them# / 511a 83 7690 1 1 a 11 1^has . [@:] a !little t/ab saying# / 511a 83 7700 1 1 a 11 1^D'K :f\iles# - / 511a 83 7710 1 1 a 11 1and ^that`s !three f\iling cabinets# - / 511a 83 7720 1 1 a 11 1^and "!\either# . / 511a 83 7730 1 2 a 11 1the ^guy !knew ex:{\actly} 'where the petty 'cash / 511a 83 7730 1 1 a 11 1was k\ept# / 511a 83 7740 1 2 a 11 1which has been ^changed within the 'last few / 511a 83 7740 1 1 a 11 1w\eeks# / 511a 84 7750 1 1 B 11 1^[/m]# / 511a 84 7760 1 1 a 11 1^\or /else# / 511a 84 7770 1 1 a 11 1he`d ^had t/ime# . / 511a 84 7780 1 2 a 12 1to ^go . 'through !all the 'other ^\all of the / 511a 84 7780 1 1 a 12 1filing c/abinets# / 511a 84 7790 1 1 a 11 1^l\ooking for it# / 511a 84 7800 1 1 B 11 1^[\m]# / 511a 84 7810 1 1 a 11 1and ^locking them 'up !\afterwards# - / 511a 84 7820 1 1 a 11 1^now . [@] !when . [@:m] "M\illy# - / 511a 84 7830 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^b\uzzed me on# / 511a 85 7840 1 1 a 11 1"^Monday m/orning# / 511a 85 7850 1 1 a 11 1to ^say . "!b\y the w/ay# / 511a 85 7860 1 1 a 11 1^did you 'take any :petty c/ash# . / 511a 85 7870 1 1 a 11 1^over the !w\/eekend# / 511a 85 7880 1 1 a 11 1and for^get to put a !n\ote in# / 511a 85 7890 1 1 a 11 1I mean ^C\arola# / 511a 85 7900 1 1 a 11 1^v\arious _people# / 511a 85 7910 1 1 a 11 1say "^run short :over the :week/end# / 511a 85 7920 2 1 a 21 1and ((they`re)) in ^the habit of / 511a 85 7930 1 1 B 11 1+^y\es#+ / 511a 85 7920 1 1(a 11 1+of+ d\/oing 'this# / 511a 85 7940 1 1 a 11 1and put an ^IOU in the !!b\ox# / 511a 86 7950 1 1 a 11 1^so I said n/o# . / 511a 86 7960 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^she said well there`s none :h\ere# / 511a 86 7970 1 1 a 11 1do you ^know if !L\yle or 'anybody`s 'taken it# / 511a 86 7980 1 1 a 11 1so I said ^no n\o# / 511a 86 7990 1 1 a 11 1I ^don`t kn\ow# / 511a 86 8000 1 1 a 11 1(coughs . ) . and I came "^strolling thr/ough# . / 511a 86 8010 1 1 a 11 1"^went to the :f\/iling cabinet# / 511a 86 8020 1 1 a 11 1^where it ((had)) used to !b\e# . / 511a 86 8030 1 2 a 11 1and ^Milly said !oh it`s not "th\/ere any / 511a 86 8030 1 1 a 11 1'longer# . / 511a 86 8040 1 1 a 11 1^so . I said w=ell now# / 511a 87 8050 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] ((you know)) "^\/I didn`t 'know this# / 511a 87 8060 1 2 a 11 1((I ^wonder)) how many "!\other people . [@:] / 511a 87 8060 1 1 a 11 1{((have ^kn\own)) this#}# . / 511a 87 8070 1 2 a 11 1^would you 'mind :opening this . 'filing 'cabinet / 511a 87 8070 1 1 a 11 1that "!\I`m trying to g/et in# / 511a 87 8080 1 1 a 11 1^where it used to "!!b\e# . / 511a 87 8090 1 1 a 11 1and in the ^bottom dr/awer# / 511a 87 8100 1 2 a 12 1where ^filing where [dhi:] . ^petty cash !\used to / 511a 87 8100 1 1 a 12 1b/e# / 511a 87 8110 1 1 a 11 1there was ^st=ill# . / 511a 87 8120 1 1 a 11 1the ^old acc/\ount b/ook# . / 511a 87 8130 1 1 a 11 1and ^various re!c=eipt 'books# . / 511a 88 8140 1 1 a 11 1and the ^b=ox# / 511a 88 8150 1 1 a 11 1the ^cardboard :sh\/oe box# / 511a 88 8160 1 1 a 11 1in which we used to ^k\/eep the 'money# / 511a 88 8170 1 1 a 11 1^down under!n\eath# . / 511a 88 8180 1 1 a 11 1((and)) I just ^looked at th/is# / 511a 88 8190 1 1 a 11 1((and)) I ^said is !this exactly how you l\eft it# / 511a 88 8200 1 1 a 11 1((and she said ^[/m]# / 511a 88 8210 1 1 a 11 14 to 6 sylls)) so it ^looked to "!m\e# . / 511a 88 8220 1 1 a 11 1as ^though . !that hadn`t :even been "!s\earched# -/ 511a 88 8230 1 1 a 11 1that ^this g/uy# / 511a 88 8240 1 1 a 11 1if he "^d/\id go _through# / 511a 89 8250 1 1 a 11 1the ^three . f\/iling 'cabinets# / 511a 89 8260 1 1 a 11 1^looking for 'where the 'petty 'cash w/as# . / 511a 89 8270 1 1 a 11 1he was ^either extra"!\ordinarily 'neat# / 511a 89 8280 1 1 a 11 1and ^taking his [@] t/ime# / 511a 89 8290 1 1 a 11 1or ^else he didn`t "b\other# . / 511a 89 8300 1 2 a 11 1he ^didn`t "!n\eed to go 'through the three f/iling/ 511a 89 8300 1 1 a 11 1cabinets# / 511a 89 8310 1 1 a 21 1he ^just went to the one wh=ere / 511a 89 8320 1 1 II 20 1(fault in tape) / 511a 89 8330 1 1 a 11 1^tw\/o tin boxes# / 511a 89 8340 1 1 a 11 1^one with t=ea money# / 511a 89 8350 1 1 a 11 1^one with petty c=ash# - / 511a 90 8360 1 1 a 11 1[@:] and where he ^dished the :l\ot# / 511a 90 8370 1 1 a 11 1ex^cept for a few :c\oppers# / 511a 90 8380 1 1 a 11 1which he . which he "^l\eft# - / 511a 90 8390 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] . "^/\and they were then locked /up# / 511a 90 8400 1 1 a 11 1"^and he had re'placed the k/ey# . / 511a 90 8410 1 1 a 11 1you ^s/ee# / 511a 90 8420 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] (clears throat) ^w\ell# - / 511a 90 8430 1 2 a 11 1[@:m] - I . [@:m] . I ^then [w] im!mediately went / 511a 90 8430 1 1 a 11 1up:st\/airs# - / 511a 90 8440 1 1 a 11 1to ^\/Ann# . / 511a 90 8450 1 1 a 11 1who`d ^just ar:r\/ived# . / 511a 90 8460 1 2 a 12 1and ((^I said)) [@:m] - ((there ^hasn`t been any)) / 511a 90 8460 1 1 a 12 1:tr\ouble over the w/eekend# / 511a 91 8470 1 1 a 11 1((has there)) ^anybody any :b\/urglary# / 511a 91 8480 1 1 a 11 1and ^she said n/o# . / 511a 91 8490 1 1 a 11 1and I ^looked \up# / 511a 91 8500 1 1 a 11 1((and)) I said "^wh/at# / 511a 91 8510 1 1 a 11 1and "^there were these !two f\/iling cabinets# . / 511a 91 8520 1 1 a 11 1"^r\uined# / 511a 91 8530 1 1 a 11 1the ^doors +!prized !\open#+ / 511a 91 8540 1 1 B 11 1+^y\es#+ / 511a 91 8550 1 1 B 11 1I ^s\aw th/at# / 511a 91 8560 1 1 a 11 1you ^s/ee# / 511a 91 8570 1 2 a 12 1^and [@:m dh@] and the ^one in which she "!does / 511a 91 8570 1 1 a 12 1keep the 'petty c/ash# / 511a 92 8580 1 1 a 11 1an at^t\empt had been made {^\at it#}# / 511a 92 8590 1 1 a 20 1but [@: @:] / 511a 92 8600 1 1 B 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 92 8610 1 1 a 11 1+((and))+ ^f\ailed# / 511a 92 8620 1 1 a 11 1but I ^m=ean# . / 511a 92 8630 1 1 a 11 1you ^s/ee# / 511a 92 8640 1 1 a 11 1it was ^so extra\ordinary# / 511a 92 8650 1 2 a 11 1that ^this ((was)) done at 'same t\ime - {^as each / 511a 92 8650 1 1 a 11 1\other#}# - / 511a 92 8660 1 1 a 11 1^you kn/ow# / 511a 92 8670 1 1 a 11 1((over)) the ^same week/end# / 511a 92 8680 1 1 a 11 1so pre^s\umably# / 511a 92 8690 1 1 a 11 1the ^same 'guy is inv\olved# - / 511a 92 8700 1 1 a 11 1((it`d be)) ^otherwise co\incidence# / 511a 92 8710 1 1 a 11 1((so for))^g\et it# / 511a 93 8720 1 1 a 11 1^and "!y\et# / 511a 93 8730 1 1 a 11 1the ^difference in techn=ique# . / 511a 93 8740 1 1 a 11 1is so so +^v/astly+ d\ifferent# / 511a 93 8750 1 1 B 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 93 8760 1 1 a 11 1"^one bloke so :neat and t/idy# / 511a 93 8770 1 1 a 20 1+- and+ / 511a 93 8780 1 1 B 11 1+and the ^other so+ !r\ough# / 511a 93 8790 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a 93 8800 1 1 a 11 1^and - with [dhi: dhi:] ":k\/eys# - / 511a 93 8810 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] . ac^cessible up:st\/airs# . / 511a 93 8820 1 1 a 11 1to ^anybody that :knows his way :r\/ound# . / 511a 94 8830 1 1 a 11 1or . you ^kn/ow# / 511a 94 8840 1 1 a 11 1^knows where to !l/ook# - - / 511a 94 8850 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] so [?]^\anyway# . / 511a 94 8860 1 1 a 11 1[@] - so [@] ^O/K# / 511a 94 8870 1 1 a 11 1they ^got on to env\ironment# / 511a 94 8880 1 1 a 11 1et^cetera et!c\etera# / 511a 94 8890 1 1 a 11 1^w\ell# . / 511a 94 8900 1 2 a 12 1^I got a !most extra!\ordinary ((well)) ^Milly / 511a 94 8900 1 1 a 12 1!Hartman got an extra:\ordinary l/etter# / 511a 94 8910 1 1 a 11 1^from [@:? dhi: dhi:] !br\ainy bl/oke# / 511a 94 8920 1 2 a 11 1who ^is the [@:m @s] assistant env\ironment / 511a 94 8920 1 1 a 11 1((officer))# / 511a 94 8930 1 1 a 12 1"^very nice ^chap called :Tr\im# / 511a 95 8940 1 1 B 11 1^Tr\im# . / 511a 95 8950 1 1 a 11 1and [@:] ^he wrote to :M/illy saying# / 511a 95 8960 1 2 a 11 1[@:m . @:m . @] - ( - laughs) ((^first of :all he / 511a 95 8960 1 1 a 11 1s=aid#)) / 511a 95 8970 1 1 a 12 1[@:m] . ^I - - [@:] I`ve ^l\ooked into th/is# / 511a 95 8980 1 2 a 12 1and I have ^c/ome . and I have ^formed the / 511a 95 8980 1 1 a 12 1op\/inion# . / 511a 95 8990 1 1 a 11 1^br\acket# . / 511a 95 9000 1 1 a 11 1and the po^lice a:gr\/ee with me# . / 511a 95 9010 1 1 a 11 1^close br/acket# / 511a 95 9020 1 1 a 11 1that ^=access# / 511a 95 9030 1 1 a 11 1was ^by a "!k\ey# / 511a 96 9040 1 1 a 21 1(laughs - ) [@:] ^bloody / 511a 96 9050 1 1 B 11 1+^y\eah#+ / 511a 96 9060 1 1 a 11 1+a+ ^bloody great de:t\ective th/at bloke# / 511a 96 9070 1 1 B 11 1^y\eah# / 511a 96 9080 1 1 a 11 1^\anyway# / 511a 96 9090 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] ^h\e said# / 511a 96 9100 1 1 a 11 1((it)) ^and that :th\/erefore# / 511a 96 9110 1 2 a 11 1there ^should be an ad"!ditional 'Yale l\ock / 511a 96 9110 1 1 a 11 1{^f\itted on *the 'door#}#* / 511a 96 9120 1 1 B 11 1*I ^saw this* [@] letter y\es# / 511a 97 9130 1 1 a 11 1so I ^rang him \up# / 511a 97 9140 1 1 a 11 1and I said "^d\ear 'Mr 'Trim# / 511a 97 9150 1 1 a 11 1^don`t be tw\it# / 511a 97 9160 1 1 a 11 1I ^didn`t say 'don`t be a tw\it# / 511a 97 9170 1 1 a 11 1but I said you know ^don`t be so \innocent# / 511a 97 9180 1 1 a 11 1[@:] I ^said !John Gr\eenlane# / 511a 97 9190 1 1 a 11 1has . [ei] ^put [ei] 'Yale l/ock# / 511a 97 9200 1 1 a 11 1^on his d/oor# / 511a 97 9210 2 1 a 21 1there ^is al!ready a Yale lock on the +[of] / 511a 97 9220 1 1 B 11 1+^departm\ental#+ / 511a 97 9210 1 1(a 11 1!office+ d/oor# . / 511a 97 9230 1 2 a 11 1and ^I said it`s the ":\easiest thing in the / 511a 97 9230 1 1 a 11 1w/orld# / 511a 98 9240 1 2 a 11 1I said about ^three weeks 'after :John had 'had it / 511a 98 9240 1 1 a 11 1"!f\itted# . / 511a 98 9250 1 1 a 11 1he ^came to 'me one :Saturday m/orning# / 511a 98 9260 1 1 a 11 1and said ^God d/amn it# / 511a 98 9270 1 1 a 11 1I`ve ^l\ost my k/ey# / 511a 98 9280 1 1 a 11 1and I ^w\ant to get 'into my /office# / 511a 98 9290 1 1 a 11 1how do I ^d\o it# / 511a 98 9300 1 1 a 11 1and ^I got in my!!s\elf {I ^s\aid#}# . / 511a 98 9310 1 1 a 11 1with ^doing a !m\inimum a'mount of d/amage# / 511a 98 9320 1 1 a 11 1just ^pr\izing 'open [dhi:] the l/ath# / 511a 99 9330 1 1 a 11 1that`s a^gainst the d=oor# / 511a 99 9340 1 1 a 11 1and ^just inserting a r/uler# / 511a 99 9350 1 1 a 11 1and we were ^in in two minutes "!fl\at# - / 511a 99 9360 1 2 a 11 1[@:] the ^Yale is "!absolutely out of the / 511a 99 9360 1 1 a 11 1qu\estion# / 511a 99 9370 1 1 a 11 1it`s ^got to be a :m\ortice l/ock# . / 511a 99 9380 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^that ((\is))# . / 511a 99 9390 1 2 a 11 1[@] a ^decent 'mortice lock ((for)) something / 511a 99 9390 1 1 a 11 1se!c\ure# / 511a 99 9400 1 1 a 11 1^but I s\aid# / 511a 99 9410 1 1 a 11 1^this 'needs to be !thought ab/out# . / 511a 99 9420 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] in a "^much wider c\ontext# . / 511a100 9430 1 1 a 11 1[@:] than ^just putting [@:] :locks on d/oors# . / 511a100 9440 1 1 a 11 1the ^problem 'is . r/eally# / 511a100 9450 1 1 a 11 1the ^number of keys in:v\olved# / 511a100 9460 1 1 a 11 1"^w\e are _going to be# . / 511a100 9470 1 1 a 11 1^well looked 'after down h/ere# / 511a100 9480 1 1 a 11 1on the ^/office# / 511a100 9490 1 1 a 11 1we`re ^going to put a "!Chubb lock on the d/oor# . / 511a100 9500 1 1 a 11 1and ^we know 'how many :keys that are inv/olved# / 511a100 9510 1 1 a 11 1there are ^only half a d/ozen# / 511a100 9520 1 1 a 11 1or ^something like th/at# . / 511a101 9530 1 1 a 11 1"^\and what is m/ore# / 511a101 9540 1 1 a 11 1this is the ^absolutely "!cr\ucial p/oint# - / 511a101 9550 1 1 a 11 1^we have 'got a 'cleaner that we can ":tr\ust# - - / 511a101 9560 1 1 a 11 1[@:m] the ^cleaner on !this fl/oor# / 511a101 9570 1 1 a 11 1will ^go /in# / 511a101 9580 1 1 a 11 1she`ll ^do the cl/eaning# / 511a101 9590 1 1 a 11 1she`ll ^come out and she`ll l/ock# / 511a101 9600 1 2 a 11 1and I ^have no hesitation in giving her the / 511a101 9600 1 1 a 11 1!k\ey# . / 511a101 9610 1 1 a 12 1^but [dhi:] . ^when !she is on l/\eave# . / 511a101 9620 1 1 a 11 1I ^s/aid# . / 511a101 9630 1 2 a 11 1^there will be !no 'cleaning in the :\office in / 511a101 9630 1 1 a 11 1'future# - / 511a102 9640 1 1 a 11 1when ^she`s on l/eave# / 511a102 9650 1 1 a 11 1we will ^put out the :wastepaper b/ins# / 511a102 9660 1 1 a 11 1^outside the :door in the m/orning# / 511a102 9670 1 1 a 11 1and the ^cleaners will 'not be 'able to get !\in# -/ 511a102 9680 1 1 a 11 1be^cause . you kn/ow# / 511a102 9690 1 1 a 11 1we ^had this if you rem=ember# / 511a102 9700 1 1 a 11 1a^bout a !y=ear a_go# / 511a102 9710 1 1 a 11 1when ^some of our 'staff _said . [@:] r/ight# / 511a102 9720 1 1 a 11 1^maybe it was be_fore you c\ame# - / 511a103 9730 1 1 a 11 1[@] ^I was in:structed at :\any 'rate# / 511a103 9740 1 1 a 11 1to ^write to . [@:m] env/ironment# / 511a103 9750 1 2 a 11 1and ^say . [@:m] . !cleaners "!must not leave / 511a103 9750 1 1 a 11 1:doors 'open in the +m\orning#+ / 511a103 9760 1 1 B 11 1+^y\es#+ / 511a103 9770 1 1 a 11 1[@:] ^and I was :written "b/ack to# / 511a103 9780 1 1 B 11 1((1 to 2 sylls)) that ^happened when I was :h\ere# / 511a103 9790 1 1 a 11 1^r\ight# / 511a103 9800 1 1 a 11 1I was ^written b/ack to# / 511a104 9810 1 1 a 11 1and ^said n/o# / 511a104 9820 1 1 a 11 1they had in"^str\uctions 'not to do {^th\at#}# / 511a104 9830 1 1 a 11 1they ^go /in# / 511a104 9840 1 1 a 11 1they "^unlock the d/oor# / 511a104 9850 1 2 a 11 1^go in do their 'cleaning come 'out ((and)) lock / 511a104 9850 1 1 a 11 1!\up again# / 511a104 9860 1 1 a 11 1^well of 'course it 'doesn`t !!h\appen# / 511b 1 9870 1 1 II 20 2(later in the same conversation) / 511b 1 9880 1 1 a 11 2and the "^only w/ay# / 511b 1 9890 1 1 a 11 2to ^get sec/urity# / 511b 1 9900 1 1 a 11 2is "^either to 'have . a :s/afe# - - / 511b 2 9910 1 1 a 11 2[@:] which ^wouldn`t be :t\/oo 'difficult# / 511b 2 9920 1 2 a 12 2and I ^think . [s@ @] so 'far as !y\our department / 511b 2 9920 1 1 a 12 2is [@] ((you know)) ^\our department# / 511b 2 9930 1 1 a 11 2"^your \office is is conc/erned# / 511b 2 9940 1 1 a 11 2a ^safe is the 'only w/ay# - / 511b 2 9950 1 1 a 11 2"^{/or} /else# / 511b 2 9960 1 1 a 11 2to ^have a sm/\all r/oom# . / 511b 2 9970 1 1 a 11 2^such as [dhi:] . x/erox {^r/oom#}# - - / 511b 2 9980 1 1 a 11 2^which is on a :Chubb l/ock# - / 511b 3 9990 1 1 a 11 2^and which is !not cleaned by the :cl\eaners# - - / 511b 310000 1 1 a 12 2and ^that . ^in that r/oom# / 511b 310010 1 1 a 11 2^in such a r/oom# / 511b 310020 1 1 a 11 2[@] you can ^have [@:] . m/oney# / 511b 310030 1 1 a 12 2and [@:m] ^such . ^that type of :v\aluable# / 511b 310040 1 1 a 20 2[@:m] / 511b 310050 1 1 B 11 2((we haven`t)) ^got a s/\afe# / 511b 310060 1 1 B 11 2would they ^let us 'have a s/afe# - - / 511b 310070 1 1 B 11 2have ^you got a 'safe in the /office# . / 511b 310080 1 1 a 11 2^n\o# - - / 511b 410090 1 1 B 11 2^wouldn`t it be b/est to have a 'safe then# / 511b 410100 1 2 a 14 2^I ^I think "^I think that that`s ^I think that`s / 511b 410100 1 1 a 14 2the :best thing r/eally# / 511b 410110 1 1 a 21 2[@:] ^but [@:] ((as :you)) / 511b 410120 1 1 B 11 2the ^xerox room isn`t is :not very satisf/actory# / 511b 410130 1 1 B 11 2be^cause it`s also a !t\ea room# - - / 511b 410140 1 1 B 11 2^h/ere# - / 511b 410150 1 1 a 11 2you ^s=ee# / 511b 410160 1 1 a 11 2it ^doesn`t !m\atter during the d/ay {so ^m/uch#}# / 511b 510170 1 1 B 11 2^n\o# / 511b 510180 1 1 B 11 2^not so m\uch# / 511b 510190 1 1 B 11 2but I ^m=ean# / 511b 510200 1 2 B 11 2it`s ^still got +to be . the :place of se:curity to/ 511b 510200 1 1 B 11 2our mat\/erial# / 511b 510210 2 1 B 21 2would con^vert it into / 511b 510220 1 1 a 11 2+^y\eah# . / 511b 510230 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# . / 511b 510240 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# . / 511b 510250 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# / 511b 510260 1 1 a 11 2^y\eah# / 511b 510270 1 1 a 11 2^s\ure# / 511b 510280 1 1 a 11 2^s\ure# / 511b 510290 1 1 a 11 2^s\ure#+ / 511b 510210 1 1(B 11 2a [s] :str\ong((hold))#+ / 511b 510300 1 1 B 20 2(laughs - ) / 511b 510310 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# / 511b 510320 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# / 511b 510330 1 1 a 11 2^r\ight# / 511b 510340 1 1 B 11 2[@:] so ^I would favour the idea of a of a s/\afe# / 511b 610350 1 1 B 11 2if ^that were p\ossible# . / 511b 610360 1 1 B 11 2do you ^think we 'should have !Ch\ubbs# / 511b 610370 1 1 B 11 2^on the 'depart'mental :office +:d\/oor#+ / 511b 610380 1 1 II 20 2+(telephone rings - )+ / 511b 610390 1 1 a 11 2^n/\o# / 511b 610400 1 1 a 12 2^I I ^w\/ell# . / 511b 610410 1 1 a 11 2[? @ . @:m] to ^m\/y mind# / 511b 610420 1 1 a 11 2it`s . it`s a a ^waste of t\ime# / 511b 610430 1 1 a 11 2(speaks on telephone - - - ) - ^[=@:m]# - / 511b 610440 1 1 a 11 2[i? i? @:] ^Chubb on the 'door`s :p\ointless# . / 511b 610450 1 1 a 11 2for the ^reasons I m\entioned# . / 511b 610460 1 1 a 11 2we`re . we`re "^too big a dep\artment# . / 511b 710470 1 2 a 11 2[@:] we`re [?] we`re ^going to have to have !forty / 511b 710470 1 1 a 11 2c\opies# . / 511b 710480 1 1 a 11 2of ^that . [@:] Ch/ubb lock# / 511b 710490 1 1 a 11 2^\and what is m/ore# / 511b 710500 1 2 a 11 2the ^cl\eaners are 'going to 'have {to ^h\ave / 511b 710500 1 1 a 11 2them#}# / 511b 710510 1 1 a 11 2^therefore +et'cetera et'cetera etc\etera#+ / 511b 710520 1 1 B 11 2+^y\es#+ / 511b 710530 1 1 B 11 2^qu\ite# / 511b 710540 1 1 a 11 2[@] ^after /all# . / 511b 710550 1 2 a 12 2[@:] I ^don`t have to - [@ . @] it`s ^not a :lot of/ 511b 710550 1 1 a 12 2tr/ouble# - / 511b 810560 1 1 a 11 2[@:m] ^for m/e# / 511b 810570 1 1 a 11 2as [? ei] . as a dis^h/onest st\udent# . / 511b 810580 1 1 a 11 2to ^s=ee# - / 511b 810590 1 1 a 11 2[@:m] ^your keys on the d=esk# / 511b 810600 1 1 a 11 2or ^Shane !Warnock`s 'keys on the d\esk# . / 511b 810610 1 1 a 11 2he ^goes !out to p\ee# . / 511b 810620 1 1 a 11 2I ^slip off 'that [@:m @:] :Chubb k\ey# - / 511b 810630 1 1 a 11 2^or take his !wh/\ole keys if if I l/ike# / 511b 810640 1 1 a 11 2((take)) ^\all his 'keys# - / 511b 810650 1 1 a 11 2^have a "!copy m/ade# . / 511b 810660 1 1 a 11 2within ^two or three "!h\ours up the r/oad here# / 511b 910670 1 1 a 11 2and ^then . [@: l@] :l\ose the k=eys# / 511b 910680 1 1 a 11 2^in the office or s/omething# / 511b 910690 1 1 a 11 2and and ^Shane gets them b/ack# / 511b 910700 1 2 a 11 2and ^says well Christ I :don`t know where I l=eft / 511b 910700 1 1 a 11 2them# / 511b 910710 1 1 a 11 2but ^thank God I`ve got them n\ow# - / 511b 910720 1 1 a 11 2((you take the ^p\oint#)) - / 511b 910730 1 1 a 11 2[@:m] . ^and in "\any case# / 511b 910740 1 2 a 12 2[@:] there`s ^been a situation ((2 to 3 sylls)) / 511b 910740 1 1 a 12 2^n/o# / 511b 910750 1 1 a 11 2it ^seems to m/e# / 511b 910760 1 1 a 11 2that [@:] . ^big dep/artments# . / 511b 1010770 1 2 a 11 2[@:m] it`s going to be ^worth . our 'while putting / 511b 1010770 1 1 a 11 2a a . a :s\afe in# / 511b 1010780 1 1 a 11 2^possibly /even# / 511b 1010790 1 1 a 11 2a ^sh\ared safe# / 511b 1010800 1 1 a 11 2^with say . [@:] :Ch=emistry# / 511b 1010810 1 1 a 11 2^Rurit=anian# - / 511b 1010820 1 1 a 11 2[@:] ^Sp\anish# . / 511b 1010830 1 1 a 11 2^say !one s\afe# . / 511b 1010840 1 1 a 11 2for ^those three dep=artments# / 511b 1010850 1 1 a 11 2^kept in your \office# / 511b 1010860 1 1 a 11 2and +^then ((k\eys#))+ / 511b 1010870 1 2 B 11 2+it would be ^quite nice+ to :think of a - :burglar/ 511b 1010870 1 1 B 11 2[@:] 'spending :many :h\ours# / 511b 1110880 1 1 B 11 2[@m] - ^burning his 'way through a :s\afe# / 511b 1110890 1 1 B 11 2to ^get fifty !\p# / 511b 1110900 1 1 a 11 2^no ex\actly# . / 511b 1110910 1 1 a 11 2ex^\actly# / 511b 1110920 1 1 a 11 2and you ^s=ee# / 511b 1110930 1 1 a 21 2+^these+ / 511b 1110940 1 2 B 11 2+^we+ haven`t got much 'money to !p\ut in the 'safe/ 511b 1110940 1 1 B 11 2in /other 'words# / 511b 1110950 1 1 a 11 2+^these ((can`t be rigged /up))#+ / 511b 1110960 1 2 B 11 2+((4 to 6 sylls files in the+ issue)) I ^mean are / 511b 1110960 1 1 B 11 2there f\iles out there# / 511b 1210970 1 2 B 11 2that ^ought to be pro'tected 'better than they / 511b 1210970 1 1 B 11 2/\are# / 511b 1210980 1 1 a 11 2^w/ell# / 511b 1210990 1 2 a 12 2^that ^that is is is a _a is a is a a a difficult / 511b 1210990 1 1 a 12 2issue :t\oo# / 511b 1211000 1 2 a 12 2you ^see there are !three there are ^three \aspects/ 511b 1211000 1 1 a 12 2of {se^c\urity#}# . / 511b 1211010 1 1 a 11 2^one is m\oney# - - / 511b 1211020 1 1 a 11 2^one is equ\ipment# . / 511b 1211030 1 1 a 11 2the ^other is 'confi'dential f\iles# / 511b 1211040 1 1 B 11 2^y\es# / 511b 1311050 1 1 a 11 2^n\ow# / 511b 1311060 1 1 a 11 2[@:m - dhi: . dhi:] ^f\/irst 'one# . / 511b 1311070 1 2 a 11 2^is [?] 'where [?] we`re . r/\eally in / 511b 1311070 1 1 a 11 2:{^d\anger#}# - / 511b 1311080 1 1 a 11 2[@:m . @ ? @] ^talking ar/ound# / 511b 1311090 1 2 a 12 2it ^seems to be ^talking to [dhi:] 'tutor to [@:m] / 511b 1311090 1 1 a 12 2:st\udents# / 511b 1311100 1 1 a 11 2[@] the ^problem seems to be dr\ug addicts# / 512 10 1 1 a 11 [@?m] . ^we !did . de:c\ide# / 512 20 1 2 a 11 that ^we were _going to _have a _[p@6:] !post / 512 20 1 1 a 11 m\ortem# - - - / 512 30 1 1 ?d 11 ^hang /on# - / 512 40 1 2 a 12 for the "^[la6:] for "^[dhi:] . Saint _Mark`s / 512 40 1 1 a 12 _week\/end# - - - / 512 50 1 1 a 11 ^did we !n\ot# - - / 512 60 1 1 ?e 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 70 2 1(a 21 *((and))* ^that was the [@] '[dhi] [@] / 512 80 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 70 1 1 a 11 !object of ton\ight# - / 512 90 1 1 a 11 ^so per!haps R/oy# / 512 100 2 1 a 21 ^you !could [@] - - - 'out'line 'your th/oughts . / 512 110 2 1 d 21 ^could I / 512 100 1 1 a 11 'on the 'matter# / 512 110 1 1 d 11 'ask be'fore we do th\at# - - / 512 120 1 2 d 11 can ^we sort of . :map _out what we !actually 'have/ 512 120 1 1 d 11 to t\alk a'bout to'night# - / 512 130 1 1 d 11 cos ^my !time !is 'fairly :l\/imited# - - / 512 140 1 1 d 11 cos ^I`m "!very 'worried about 'getting h\ome# - - / 512 150 1 1 d 11 ^s=o# - - / 512 160 1 2 d 11 ((if)) we ^have a !list of 'what we :want to t/alk / 512 160 1 1 d 11 a'bout# / 512 170 1 2 d 11 and ^we can !make 'sure we :don`t 'sort of 'spend / 512 170 1 1 d 11 too l/ong on 'something# / 512 180 1 1 d 20 and / 512 190 1 1 ? 11 ^[/mhm]# - - / 512 200 1 1 d 20 (coughs) / 512 210 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 512 220 1 1 a 11 we ^need . !first of 'all to do th\at# / 512 230 1 1 d 11 ^y/eahp# - / 512 240 1 2 a 12 ^and - dis^cuss the ar'rangements for the / 512 240 1 1 a 12 No:v\/ember thing# / 512 250 1 1 d 11 ^[/mhm]# - - / 512 260 1 2 a 11 ^and . dis!cuss [?]ar'rangements - _for . the / 512 260 1 1 a 11 :Brahms R\equiem# - - - / 512 270 1 1 a 11 ^((imm/orally)) {^y/et#}# / 512 280 1 1 d 11 ^[/mhm]# / 512 290 1 1 ?a 11 ^g\ood# / 512 300 1 1 a 11 ^and [@:] - . !br\/iefly# / 512 310 1 2 a 11 ^((over)) the _rest of the !s\eason 'I would / 512 310 1 1 a 11 sug'gest# - / 512 320 1 1 a 11 [@:m] ^the No!v\ember . c/oncert# - / 512 330 1 1 a 11 ^needs a _fair a!m\ount of 'sorting 'out# / 512 340 1 1 a 11 cos we`re ^trying 'this 'different :s\ystem# / 512 350 1 2 a 11 ((and)) we ^want to - !try and 'tighten 'things / 512 350 1 1 a 11 /up# - . / 512 360 1 1 a 11 and dis^cuss how we`re 'going to d\o that# - / 512 370 1 1 d 20 ((okay)) - - (([mhm])) / 512 380 1 1 a 11 all ^r/ight for 'you# . / 512 390 2 1 a 21 [@?m] . *^{y\ou}* 'want to 'bring / 512 400 2 1 e 21 *^((1 syll))* / 512 390 1 1(a 11 'obviously :f\inances 'into 'these th/ings# - / 512 400 1 1(e 11 *((^couldn`t we dis'cuss :f\/und'raising#))* / 512 410 1 2 d 10 *( . coughs) / 512 410 1 1 d 10 ^think it will a:rise !n\aturally* s/ome'how# / 512 420 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 430 1 1 a 11 ((I)) ^think you`re !probably !!r\ight# / 512 440 1 1 d 20 ( - chuckles) / 512 450 1 2 e 11 ((we)) ^did 'say we 'would dis:cuss f\und'raising / 512 450 1 1 e 11 (('at this m/eeting))# / 512 460 1 1 d 20 *((several sylls))* / 512 470 1 1 a 11 *dis^cuss wh/at#* / 512 480 1 1 e 11 ((well the)) "^f\und'raising# / 512 490 1 1 e 20 *((2 to 3 sylls))* / 512 500 1 1 a 11 *have you ^got f\/und'raising#* / 512 510 1 1 d 11 *((^oh that`s /it#))* / 512 520 1 1 e 11 ((can you ^put 'on)) - - - f\und'raising# / 512 530 1 1 a 11 al^r\ight# / 512 540 1 2 a 11 ((well)) I`m "^s\orry I 'haven`t pro_duced an / 512 540 1 1 a 11 ag/enda# / 512 550 1 1 a 11 it`s ^very - - . ((l\ax of me#)) / 512 560 1 1 a 20 ((2 sylls)) - - - / 512 570 1 1 a 11 ^r\ight# - - - / 512 580 1 1 a 11 ^the Saint !Mark`s week\end# - - . / 512 590 1 1 a 11 the ^musical - - . st/andards# - - / 512 600 1 1 d 20 ( . chuckles * - *) / 512 610 1 2 b 11 *well I ^think we`re 'all a"!w\are* of the . '[dhi]/ 512 610 1 1 b 11 [@m]# - - / 512 620 1 1 b 11 re^s\ults# / 512 630 1 1 b 11 and ((the)) ^c\/auses 'of them# - - / 512 640 1 1 a 11 ^w/\ell# / 512 650 1 1 a 11 [a7] *^/\are we ((a'ware of the 'causes))#* / 512 660 1 1 ? 11 *^[m] n\o#* / 512 670 1 1 ? 11 ^n\o# / 512 680 1 1 b 11 +^r\ight#+ / 512 690 1 1 a 11 +I ^think+ the 'causes _need /\ana'lysing# / 512 700 1 1 a 11 **((to be ^qu\/ite 'honest#))** / 512 710 1 1 b 11 **"^n\/o# / 512 720 1 1 b 21 [?@]** . I ^wasn`t *'going to ((several sylls))* / 512 730 1 1 e 11 *^and the res/\ults# / 512 740 1 1 a 11 ^and the res/\ults#* . / 512 750 1 1 a 11 +^y/\es# - / 512 760 1 1 e 11 ^[/\m]#+ / 512 770 1 1 b 10 +((to !m\ention#)) . / 512 780 1 1 b 12 ^I [?]+ ^pl\ease# . / 512 790 1 1 b 11 ^inter'rupt and \argue# - [@:m] / 512 800 1 1 ?a 11 ^well we !w\ill# / 512 810 1 1 d 20 ( . chuckles) - - - / 512 820 1 1 ?a 20 but / 512 830 1 1 b 11 ( . coughs) ^b\/asically# / 512 840 1 2 b 11 the ^Saturday 'evening 'concert - was a 'bit / 512 840 1 1 b 11 ":t\atty# - / 512 850 1 1 b 11 ^had 'good :m\/oments# / 512 860 1 1 b 11 but ^r\/eally [@m]# . / 512 870 1 1 b 11 ^none of it '[w@z] - :st\/unning# - / 512 880 1 1 b 11 ^none of it was "!p\olished 'let`s _say# . / 512 890 1 1 b 11 ^there ((were)) some 'good 'musical :th\ings# / 512 900 1 2 b 11 but ^I mean it !just 'wasn`t - - :up to the 'sort / 512 900 1 1 b 11 of . !level 'of - - f\/inishedness# / 512 910 1 1 b 11 that ^we should be \/aiming 'at# - - / 512 920 2 1 a 20 it / 512 930 1 1 ?b 20 [@m] / 512 920 1 1(a 10 ^wasn`t :s\atisfying# / 512 940 1 1 a 21 I ^think that`s :really / 512 950 1 1 b 11 and "^y\es# / 512 960 2 1 b 21 I`m *^I`m . / 512 970 1 1 a 20 *((some sylls)) ( . chuckles)* / 512 960 1 1(b 11 "!going 'on* from !th\at# / 512 980 1 2 b 11 ((I mean)) *^that`s a* - a!nother 'factor a:g\ain# / 512 980 1 1 b 11 - / 512 990 1 1 ?e 11 *^[/\m]#* / 512 1000 1 1 b 11 ^Sunday :m\orning# / 512 1010 1 1 b 11 ^[?]\/actually# / 512 1020 1 1 b 11 was ^pretty !g\ood as a wh/ole# - . / 512 1030 1 2 b 11 [@:m] . ^Captain 'Noah - - . '[w@z] . / 512 1030 1 1 b 11 '[?]al:r\/ight# / 512 1040 1 2 b 12 I ^think it ^[?]I !think 'we just :needed to ":d\/o/ 512 1040 1 1 b 12 it# / 512 1050 1 1 f 11 ^[\m]# / 512 1060 2 1 f 21 *it was ^better than 'our :pr\evious* / 512 1070 1 1 b 11 *^in a 'different !s\ort of 'way#* / 512 1060 1 1(f 11 'Captain 'Noahs ((I th/ink))# / 512 1080 1 1 b 11 "^y\es# / 512 1090 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 1100 1 1 b 12 ^I mean it ![kei] . ^y\es# / 512 1110 1 1 b 11 I ^((mean from the)) !m\usical 'point of 'view# / 512 1120 1 1 b 11 it ^wasn`t _bad at !\all# . / 512 1130 1 3 b 13 [@?] ^I !think [?] ^I ((mean)) ^I ((did)) 'think / 512 1130 1 2 b 13 '[dhi] - ((I mean ^this)) - - ((1 syll)) p\/artly / 512 1130 1 1 b 13 'reckon# . / 512 1140 1 3 b 11 to ^th/is [@m] - / 512 1140 1 2 b 11 ^I think !\actually 'doing much 'more in the 'way / 512 1140 1 1 b 11 of prod/uction# / 512 1150 1 1 b 11 in^volving ch\ildren# / 512 1160 1 1 b 11 ^as we 'did with ((the)) Horrort\orio# - / 512 1170 1 1 b 11 ^is 'much 'more suc:cessful 'way of d\oing# / 512 1180 1 1 b 11 a ^piece "like ":th\/at# / 512 1190 1 2 b 11 but ^that`s 'not 'coming from the :musical 'side / 512 1190 1 1 b 11 ((of it par!t\icularly))# - / 512 1200 1 1 b 11 and ((it)) ^s\/imply# / 512 1210 1 1 b 11 would ^take l/onger# / 512 1220 1 1 b 11 to ^do it 'that w\ay# / 512 1230 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 1240 1 1 b 11 ^and I !think the 'Horror:t\/orios# / 512 1250 1 1 b 11 ((which)) ^came /off ((1 syll))# / 512 1260 1 1 b 11 ((you ^kn/ow#)) / 512 1270 1 1 b 11 ^very "!w\ell# . / 512 1280 1 1 b 12 the ^kids - ((well)) ^c\ertainly# . / 512 1290 1 1 b 11 ^the !kids 'we kn/ow# / 512 1300 1 1 b 11 ^who were !\at it# - / 512 1310 1 1 b 11 re^member it !v\ery 'much# / 512 1320 1 1 b 11 be^cause 'they . w\ere much 'more inv/olved# / 512 1330 1 1 b 11 and ^many more 'things !h\appened# / 512 1340 1 1 f 11 ^\/al'so# / 512 1350 1 1 f 11 ((we had)) a ^much 'bigger :\audience# / 512 1360 1 1 f 21 I ^mean I _thought / 512 1370 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 512 1380 1 1 b 11 ^qu\ite# / 512 1390 1 1 d 11 ^[\mhm]# . / 512 1400 1 1 ?f 20 *((2 or 3 sylls))* / 512 1410 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# / 512 1420 1 1 b 11 it was a* ^v\ery 'small _audience# / 512 1430 1 1 b 11 ^[tu] - d\o 'anything _to# / 512 1440 1 2 e 11 ^dis'counting _[mem] . _children of _members of / 512 1440 1 1 e 11 *the ch/oir#* / 512 1450 1 1 f 11 *^[g\o7ng]# / 512 1460 1 1 f 11 ^qu\ite#* / 512 1470 1 2(e 21 I ^mean it was a!bout . !three *or* !f\our +w/asn`t/ 512 1470 1 1(e 21 it ((4 or 5 sylls))+ / 512 1480 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 1490 1 1 b 11 +^that`s r\ight#+ / 512 1500 1 1 a 11 +^y/\es# / 512 1510 1 2 f 11 ((and)) I ^actually 'spent this+ 'afternoon / 512 1510 1 1 f 11 'singing 'singing the :r\ainbow 'bit# / 512 1520 1 1 f 11 to ^Jamie`s sch/ool# / 512 1530 1 1 f 11 [?]and ^they were w/\onderful# / 512 1540 1 2 f 13 ^they !all . ^they !all '[dzho7] ^they`ll !all g\ot/ 512 1540 1 1 f 13 it# / 512 1550 1 1 f 11 ^by the !end of the 'first time thr\ough# / 512 1560 1 2 f 11 ^they were !all *'join*ing /in ((and this +sort+ of/ 512 1560 1 1 f 11 *thing# - / 512 1570 1 1 f 11 you ^kn/ow#))* / 512 1580 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 1590 1 1 ?e 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 1600 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]# - - * / 512 1610 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 512 1620 1 1 f 11 but there were ((a ^l\ot of)) them of c/ourse# / 512 1630 1 1 f 11 **who ^d\idn`t# / 512 1640 1 2 f 11 ^so you could +:actually+ ** !sort of - !d\o / 512 1640 1 1 f 11 *'something#* / 512 1650 1 1 ?e 11 **^[\m]# - / 512 1660 1 1 ?e 11 ^[\m]#** / 512 1670 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ - - / 512 1680 1 1 b 11 *^\even'song* - 'went _very n/\icely# / 512 1690 1 1 b 11 ^I th/ought# / 512 1700 1 1 b 11 de^spite _my s/inging# - / 512 1710 1 1 ? 20 *( . sniffy laugh)* / 512 1720 1 1(b 11 *[@:m]* ^y\es# / 512 1730 1 1 b 11 ((there)) . ^(([ei])) 'small 'group of p/eople# / 512 1740 1 2 b 12 ^[?]and . and ^I was dis!cussing 'this with 'Gill / 512 1740 1 1 b 12 :y\esterday# / 512 1750 1 1 b 11 as to ^why 'that - . :was "!g\ood# / 512 1760 1 1 b 21 ^I mean I think it !!w\as * . / 512 1770 1 1 b 11 ((didn`t you think it was)) ^g/ood#* / 512 1780 1 1 ?d 11 *^[/m]# - * / 512 1790 1 1 ?d 11 ^[/m]# / 512 1800 1 1 ?d 20 ((several sylls)) / 512 1810 2 2 e 21 well ^I 'thought ((the 'most)) 'satis'fying from / 512 1810 2 1 e 21 :m\y *((point of view several sylls))* / 512 1820 1 1 b 11 *it was . it was ^s\atisfying to d/o#* / 512 1810 1 1(e 11 ^y\es# / 512 1830 1 1 ? 11 +^y\es#+ / 512 1840 1 1 ? 11 +((^qu\ite#))+ / 512 1850 1 1 b 11 +^y\es#+ / 512 1860 1 1 b 11 ^and it ((was)) a :sm\all number of p/eople# / 512 1870 1 1 b 11 ^actually "!!v\/ery 'little re'hearsal# / 512 1880 1 2 b 11 but I mean I ^think 'everybody had . :w\/orked at / 512 1880 1 1 b 11 it# . / 512 1890 1 1 e 11 ^[\m]# / 512 1900 1 1 b 11 ^=and [@?m]# - / 512 1910 1 1 b 11 ^there was a !lot of enj\oyment from _doing# - / 512 1920 1 1 b 11 ^something 'fairly 'small sc/ale 'like 'that# / 512 1930 1 1 b 11 ^pretty !w\ell# - / 512 1940 1 2 b 12 ^which 'is - ^which is en!c\ouraging 'let us _say# / 512 1940 1 1 b 12 - / 512 1950 1 1 b 11 [@:m] . ^coming 'back to the 'Saturday :\evening# / 512 1960 1 2 b 12 ^well ((there`s)) the ^basic 'problems as we / 512 1960 1 1 b 12 :kn\ow# - . / 512 1970 1 2 b 12 ^are - !getting '[dhi:] - - . [@?m] ^well there are/ 512 1970 1 1 b 12 v\arious 'factors# . / 512 1980 1 1 b 11 at^t\endance {^\at re'hearsals#}# - / 512 1990 1 1 b 11 ^we kn/ow# - / 512 2000 1 2 b 11 ^but . 'I mean [?] we`re !n\ever 'going to _get a / 512 2000 1 1 b 11 re_hearsal _schedule# / 512 2010 1 2 b 11 ^where we`re 'going to get 'everyone at 'every / 512 2010 1 1 b 11 re:h\earsal# - / 512 2020 2 1 b 21 [@?m] . *^it . / 512 2030 1 1 a 11 *^n/\o# / 512 2040 1 1 a 20 ((several sylls))* / 512 2020 1 1(b 11 !simply 'doesn`t* !w\ork 'like 'that# / 512 2050 1 1 b 11 but ^when they`re 'so _strung /out# - / 512 2060 1 2 b 12 ^it`s very 'hard to get a 'sense 'of - - ^it`s / 512 2060 1 1 b 12 ^w\ell# / 512 2070 1 1 b 11 ^no it`s !!not - 'very h\ard# . / 512 2080 1 1 b 11 ((it`s)) ^d\ifficult let us s/ay# / 512 2090 1 1 b 11 to ^get [?]a "s\ense 'of# . / 512 2100 1 1 b 11 "^[?]urgency '[?]early \/on# - . / 512 2110 1 1 b 11 [@m] "^\into 'people# - / 512 2120 1 2 b 11 [@?m] - the the ^feeling that there :is ((a)) / 512 2120 1 1 b 11 'concert !((\imminent))# / 512 2130 1 1 b 11 cos ^if you`re d\oing# / 512 2140 1 1 b 11 ^((1 syll 1 syll '1 syll)) 'couple of :m/onths# / 512 2150 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not \imminent# . / 512 2160 1 1 b 11 it ^\is /actually# / 512 2170 1 1 b 11 in the ^number of re!h\earsals we`ve 'got# / 512 2180 2 1 b 21 but ^not 'in / 512 2190 1 1 ?e 11 ^[/\m]# / 512 2180 1 1(b 11 ^just 'in :sort of !c\alendar 'terms# / 512 2200 1 1 b 11 ((which is)) a ^pr\oblem# - - [@:m] - - - ( - sigh)/ 512 2210 1 1 d 11 ^is the 'problem th/ere# / 512 2220 1 1 d 11 ((be^cause of)) the 'break in the :m\iddle# . / 512 2230 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 2240 1 1 b 11 ^that !certainly 'doesn`t :h\/elp# - * . / 512 2250 1 1 b 21 it`s ^all* / 512 2260 1 2 d 11 *I ^mean there was a* !feeling be"!f\ore the / 512 2260 1 1 d 11 'break# / 512 2270 1 1 d 11 that it was a "^long 'way :\/off# . / 512 2280 1 1 b 11 **^y\eah#** / 512 2290 1 1(d 11 **((and)) ^then** you 'have a "br\/eak# / 512 2300 1 1 d 11 and ^everything "sags /\any'way# / 512 2310 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 2320 1 1 d 11 and ((then)) ^after the br/eak# / 512 2330 1 1 d 11 +it`s+ ^on !t\op of you# / 512 2340 1 1 ?e 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 2350 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# . / 512 2360 1 1 b 11 ^that`s r\ight#* / 512 2370 1 1 f 11 *^is there not 'also* a 'practical :pr\oblem# / 512 2380 1 2 f 11 ((in)) ^that if you !have . a re'hearsal '[?]every / 512 2380 1 1 f 11 w\eek# - - / 512 2390 1 1 f 11 you miss ^one reh\earsal# - . / 512 2400 1 2 f 11 ^you _don`t - . !sing the 'music with '[?]anybody / 512 2400 1 1 f 11 ":\else# - / 512 2410 1 1 f 11 ^which is "!not taking into acc/ount# / 512 2420 1 1 f 11 ^private pr\actice# / 512 2430 1 1 f 11 ^which is a!n\other 'matter# / 512 2440 2 1 f 20 *but [@] . * / 512 2450 1 1 ?d 11 *^[/m]#* / 512 2440 1 1(f 10 ^just in 'terms of 'actual re"!h\earsal you 'do# - / 512 2460 1 1 f 11 you ^miss "\/one 'week# - / 512 2470 1 2 f 11 ^so that you 'don`t sing 'anything for !tw\/o / 512 2470 1 1 f 11 'weeks# - / 512 2480 1 1 ?d 11 ^[\m]# / 512 2490 1 2 f 11 and ^with a !programme 'like Saint 'Mark`s which / 512 2490 1 1 f 11 has 'got :{l\ots} of 'different :p\/ieces 'in# / 512 2500 1 2 f 11 ^that !may 'well 'mean that :some of it you 'don`t / 512 2500 1 1 f 11 sing for "!thr\ee# . / 512 2510 1 1 ?d 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 2520 1 3(f 11 *^if you`ve* "!th\en 'got . / 512 2520 1 2(f 11 I ^mean we !don`t "!!h\ave to 'take that 'half . / 512 2520 1 1(f 11 'term w/eek 'off# / 512 2530 1 1 f 11 I ^mean as it !happened :w\/e were in 'London# / 512 2540 1 1 f 11 it`s ^just that "!\/usually# / 512 2550 1 1 f 11 ^there !are "!s\/uch a 'crop of 'people# / 512 2560 1 1 f 11 par"^t\/icularly# / 512 2570 1 1 f 11 "^th\/at 'half 'term '((week))# / 512 2580 1 2 f 12 I ^mean . [?] the !winter . the ^two w\/inter / 512 2580 1 1 f 12 'terms# / 512 2590 1 1 f 11 they ^tend to be "!st\aggered a 'lot 'more# - / 512 2600 1 1 f 11 but ^that 'sort of :Whitsun w/eek# / 512 2610 1 1 f 11 "^d\/oes 'tend to be a 'week# / 512 2620 1 3 f 12 ^where[?] - (([?m])) !most [?] . a a "^lot of . / 512 2620 1 2 f 12 'members of the 'choir with 'families :\/are a'way#/ 512 2620 1 1 f 12 . / 512 2630 1 2 f 11 and ^there'fore - . !it "!generally :tended to be / 512 2630 1 1 f 11 dis:p\iriting# / 512 2640 1 1 f 11 for ^those who were !l\eft# - / 512 2650 1 1 f 11 [@?m] - - . but ^that m/eans# / 512 2660 1 1 f 11 that ^somebody _might !very :\easily# - - / 512 2670 1 1 f 11 ^not . 'do 'some 'pieces for a m\onth# . / 512 2680 1 1 ?b 20 ((3 to 4 sylls)) / 512 2690 1 1 f 11 ^and un"!l\/ess 'people# . / 512 2700 1 2 f 11 ^make . tre"!m\endously 'concentrated 'efforts to / 512 2700 1 1 f 11 _practise at 'home# - - / 512 2710 1 1 f 12 [@:m] - - ^you - - - it ^is !very !d\ifficult# / 512 2720 1 2 f 11 ^to re_tain - !what 'you 'have 'practised a / 512 2720 1 1 f 11 :m\/onth a'go# / 512 2730 1 1 f 11 and ^come b/ack# / 512 2740 1 1 f 11 and ^pick !up !where you _left "!!\off# / 512 2750 1 2 f 11 ^there is "!b\ound to have 'been a {^tailing / 512 2750 1 1 f 11 \off#}# / 512 2760 1 1 f 11 and you`ve "^b\asically {^got to "!st\art#}# / 512 2770 1 1 f 11 ^if 'not from the :b\ottom of the 'curve a'gain# / 512 2780 1 1 f 11 well then at ^least !from h/alf'way *\up#* / 512 2790 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* - / 512 2800 1 2(f 11 and ^so you`re sort of _taking !two 'steps 'forward/ 512 2800 1 1(f 11 and _one _step !b\ack# / 512 2810 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 512 2820 1 2 b 12 well ^if it ^if *!one 'tightens 'up the* / 512 2820 1 1 b 12 :sch\/edule# / 512 2830 1 1 f 11 *^all the !t\ime#* - / 512 2840 1 1(b 11 +((^just en"!c\/ourages)) '((2 sylls))# - / 512 2850 1 1 b 11 it ((^just _simply 'isn`t so :l\ong#))+ - - / 512 2860 1 1 b 11 *^[/m]#* / 512 2870 1 2 f 11 +^whereas !if you 'hold (('different)) re'hearsals / 512 2870 1 1 f 11 'close to:g\/ether# / 512 2880 1 1 f 11 and you+ ^still 'miss (('three)) re:h\/earsals# / 512 2890 1 1 f 11 you *^kn/ow#* / 512 2900 1 2 f 11 if you`re ^doing a :Tues'day and a :Thurs'day and / 512 2900 1 1 f 11 the :following :T\/ues'day# - - / 512 2910 1 1 f 11 ^chances :\are# / 512 2920 1 1 f 11 that you`ll ^make "!\/one 'of them# / 512 2930 1 2 f 11 and ^so at !least you 'won`t _have _this _this / 512 2930 1 1 f 11 ":yawning ":g\ap# / 512 2940 1 2 f 11 ^which _happens be_cause you`ve _got a !strung 'out/ 512 2940 1 1 f 11 reh/earsal 'schedule# / 512 2950 1 2 f 11 and ^then *!somebody* _has the mis_fortune to _miss/ 512 2950 1 1 f 11 _two in a !!r\ow# - / 512 2960 1 1 b 11 *^[\/m]#* / 512 2970 1 2(f 13 ^I !think ^I !think 'that was _very . ^very / 512 2970 1 1(f 13 "!r\elevant# / 512 2980 1 3 f 11 be^cause it . "!pulls 'back the 'standards for / 512 2980 1 2 f 11 everybody "!\else 'when a 'few 'people have d/one / 512 2980 1 1 f 11 'that# / 512 2990 1 2 f 11 and ^so the !whole !th\/ing 'gets 'sort of - . / 512 2990 1 1 f 11 *'snarled 'up# / 512 3000 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]# . / 512 3010 1 1 b 22 well ^this is ^this is ((the 'matter of))* / 512 3020 1 1(f 11 and ^then _people _start th=inking#* / 512 3030 1 1 f 11 well ^God you kn/ow# / 512 3040 1 1 f 11 ^why should _I b/other# / 512 3050 2 1 f 21 if ^so and _so`s +_been+ / 512 3060 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 3050 1 1(f 11 aw/ay for _three _weeks# / 512 3070 1 1 f 11 and ^they don`t 'know it \either# - / 512 3080 1 1 f 11 ^you !get a 'sort of :kn\ock on ef'fect# / 512 3090 1 1 f 12 in ^that in *^th/\at 'way#* / 512 3100 1 1 b 11 *^y=es# / 512 3110 1 2 b 11 [@m] I* ^think the :{s\ymptoms 'are} - - :cl\/ear# / 512 3110 1 1 b 11 - - / 512 3120 1 1 d 20 +( - clears throat)+ / 512 3130 1 1(b 11 +but [dh@] I ^m=ean#+ / 512 3140 1 1 b 11 we`re ^what we`re !talking a_bout is sol\utions# / 512 3150 1 1 b 11 ^as to !what we 'do :n\ext 'time# / 512 3160 1 2 b 23 ^I mean !I ![thi] ^I !think 'we 'know we ^\all / 512 3160 1 1 b 23 'know - / 512 3170 1 1 d 11 I ^think there`s *'one more in:gr\edient#* / 512 3180 1 1 b 10 *((_what goes _wrong#))* . / 512 3190 1 1 b 11 "^y/es# / 512 3200 1 1 d 11 as ^I . [@b] . obs/\erve it# / 512 3210 1 2 d 12 ((and)) ^that is that . there ^are - - - sort of / 512 3210 1 1 d 12 !{tw\o} . ap:pr\oaches . {to ^s\inging#}# / 512 3220 1 2 d 11 the ^people who 'like to come 'once a week to / 512 3220 1 1 d 11 ":s\/ing# - - / 512 3230 1 1 d 11 ((and)) ^people who would for !pr\/eference# / 512 3240 1 1 d 11 ^work 'up to a 'concert 'just bef/ore it# / 512 3250 1 1 d 11 and ^work h\ard# / 512 3260 1 1 d 11 in a ^couple of !w\eeks# - / 512 3270 1 1 c 11 ^[\m]# - / 512 3280 2 1 d 21 and the ^choir *((is made up of))* / 512 3290 1 1 ? 11 *((it ^is for :y\ou#))* / 512 3280 1 1(d 11 !both of those 'sorts of +p\eople#+ / 512 3300 1 1 b 11 +^that`s r\ight#+ / 512 3310 1 1 c 11 ^y\eahp# - / 512 3320 1 1 d 11 and they ^don`t !!fit to!!g\ether very w/ell# / 512 3330 1 1 d 11 ((I mean ^I`m)) 'not (('talking)) "p/ersonally# / 512 3340 1 1 d 11 or ^or . !m\/usically# / 512 3350 1 2 d 11 but ^they ((I dunno)) the !actual ap"!pr\oach / 512 3350 1 1 d 11 doesn`t 'fit very _well# / 512 3360 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 512 3370 1 2 b 11 I ^think there *!\is* a 'lot of 'truth {in / 512 3370 1 1 b 11 ^th\at#}# / 512 3380 1 1 a 11 *^\oh#* / 512 3390 1 1 a 11 +^[=m]#+ / 512 3400 1 1 d 11 +^/and#+ - - . / 512 3410 1 1 d 11 it`s ^not the /\only 'problem# / 512 3420 1 1 d 21 but it`s ^certain'ly / 512 3430 1 1 b 11 it`s al^r\ight# / 512 3440 1 1 b 11 you ^won`t m\iss any'thing# / 512 3450 1 1 a 11 ^[\m]# / 512 3460 1 1 d 11 ^it contr\ibutes# - / 512 3470 1 2 d 11 [@:] I ^don`t know what the 'answer to th/at one / 512 3470 1 1 d 11 \is# / 512 3480 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 3490 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 3500 1 1 a 11 ^can you . *pr\/ecis* 'that {^f/or me#}# / 512 3510 1 1 b 11 *^n\o# / 512 3520 1 1 b 21 ^that`s* - / 512 3530 1 2 d 11 ((there are)) ^some 'people who :like to 'come / 512 3530 1 1 d 11 :once a 'week just to s\/ing# / 512 3540 1 1 ?a 11 ^y\es# / 512 3550 1 1 d 11 ^\/almost# / 512 3560 1 1 d 11 to an ^\evening 'class# - / 512 3570 1 1 d 20 *((and))* . / 512 3580 1 1 a 11 *^y\es#* / 512 3590 1 1 a 11 and ^not necessarily 'working tow\ards anything# / 512 3600 1 1 d 11 ^y\eah# / 512 3610 1 2 d 11 ((but there are)) ^those who 'like to 'come [t] to / 512 3610 1 1 d 11 a !few re'hearsals be:fore a :c\oncert# / 512 3620 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# . / 512 3630 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 3640 1 1 d 11 and we ^have !both 'sorts of :p\eople# / 512 3650 1 1 a 11 ^y=es# / 512 3660 1 1 d 11 ^in the 'choir at the :m\oment# / 512 3670 1 1 a 11 ^[=m]# / 512 3680 1 1 b 11 ^[/m]# / 512 3690 1 1 d 12 in ^in . ^in sub"stantial "n\umbers I 'think# - - / 512 3700 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# - / 512 3710 2 1 b 22 and ^I [dhi] [?@] *and ^[?]and* / 512 3720 1 1 d 11 *((we ^m/ayn`t#))* / 512 3710 1 1(b 12 ^y\es# / 512 3730 1 1 b 11 it`s ^not 'even as _clear as !th\at# / 512 3740 1 1 d 11 +^well n\o# / 512 3750 1 1 d 20 ((we))+ / 512 3760 1 2(b 10 +((several sylls))+ / 512 3760 1 1(b 10 be^cause there are _people - ^s\/ome 'people# / 512 3770 1 2 b 12 ^who ^who - 'are :{v\ery 'much} !wedded to their / 512 3770 1 1 b 12 :T\/ues'days# / 512 3780 2 1 b 21 ^who _definitely !\are - / 512 3790 1 1 d 20 ( . laughs) / 512 3800 1 1 a 20 *( - laughs)* / 512 3780 1 1(b 11 *[@:] 'working 'up to* a c/oncert# - / 512 3810 1 1 b 11 ^but y\es# / 512 3820 1 1 b 11 ^I agr\ee# / 512 3830 1 1 b 11 [in] [en] en^t\irely# / 512 3840 1 1 b 11 as as a ^general 'obser!v\ation# - . / 512 3850 1 1 b 21 and the "^\other / 512 3860 1 1 b 11 the "^\other 'comment# / 512 3870 1 1 b 11 in sort of "^p\/ost'mortem - {^t/erms#}# / 512 3880 1 2 b 11 was ^((in)) re'lation to the :sectional / 512 3880 1 1 b 11 reh\earsals# - / 512 3890 1 2 b 11 ^which 'actually 'did seem to be very \useful /I / 512 3890 1 1 b 11 'think# - / 512 3900 1 1 ?f 11 ^[\m]# / 512 3910 1 3 b 11 and ^m/ore / 512 3910 1 2 b 11 ^more than 'sectional re'hearsals 'have been / 512 3910 1 1 b 11 !pr\/eviously# / 512 3920 1 1 d 11 ^[\m]# / 512 3930 1 2 g 13 well ^why was ^why was it 'not on ^what about the / 512 3930 1 1 g 13 c\oncert# / 512 3940 1 2 g 11 ^why ((did)) 'that not _make it _have an ef'fect on/ 512 3940 1 1 g 11 the c\oncert 'then# . / 512 3950 1 1 b 11 ^too 'far a!w\ay# / 512 3960 1 1 e 11 ^[\m]# . / 512 3970 1 1 e 11 ^too "\early# - - / 512 3980 1 1 ?d 11 it ^s/\urely# / 512 3990 2 1 ?d 21 ^wouldn`t have *(('done))* / 512 4000 1 1 b 11 *^but* 'they "sh\/ould be 'early# / 512 3990 1 1 ?d 11 +"^y/\es# / 512 4010 1 1 ?d 21 ((there)) the ^n\/ote 'bashing ((several sylls))+ / 512 4020 1 1(b 11 +^r\/eally# . / 512 4030 1 1 ? 11 ^[=m]# / 512 4040 1 1 b 11 this is a^n\/other+ 'problem# / 512 4050 1 1 b 11 a^g\ain# / 512 4060 1 1 b 11 because "^\/I 'feel# / 512 4070 1 1 b 11 the ^whole 'thing is strung \out 'too 'far# / 512 4080 1 1 d 11 ^[\m]# / 512 4090 1 1 b 11 ^now I !know . y\/ou for 'instance# / 512 4100 1 2 b 12 ^don`t 'like . I I ((mean)) ^y\ou`re 'rather / 512 4100 1 1 b 12 'k/een# / 512 4110 1 1 b 11 ^on the !T\uesday - . {^p\attern#}# . / 512 4120 1 1 g 11 "^n/o# - / 512 4130 1 1 g 11 ^not par!t\icularly# / 512 4140 1 1 g 12 I ^mean . you ^kn\ow# / 512 4150 1 1 g 11 ^with Bel!l\ini# / 512 4160 2 1 g 21 ^we _do *e!x\actly* the 'sort of / 512 4170 1 1 b 20 *[m]* / 512 4160 1 1(g 11 th/ing# / 512 4180 2 2 g 21 that ^you`re - tr\ying ((to)) / 512 4180 2 1 g 21 I ^mean it !really 'doesn`t :matter to 'me / 512 4190 1 1 b 11 ^[\/m]# / 512 4180 1 1(g 11 !either !w\ay# - / 512 4200 1 1 b 11 ^y\/eah# / 512 4210 1 1 g 12 ^I !just 'feel ^like !\Edward# / 512 4220 1 1 g 12 ^there 'are - ^I feel 'very !str\ongly# / 512 4230 1 1 g 11 that ^if the !I T 'C is :\/any'thing# / 512 4240 1 1 g 11 it ^almost !\is a b/and of 'people# / 512 4250 1 1 g 11 who ^do like to !come every !T\uesday# . / 512 4260 2 1 g 21 *^and* / 512 4270 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* . / 512 4260 1 1(g 11 and ^that`s !f\ine# / 512 4280 1 1 g 11 to ^get !r\id of it# / 512 4290 1 2 g 11 as ^long as we !realise what we`re 'getting !r\id / 512 4290 1 1 g 11 of# / 512 4300 1 1 g 11 "^that`s 'all */\I* 'mean# / 512 4310 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 4320 2 1(g 21 ^it +![?]ac+tually *doesn`t* 'matter / 512 4330 1 1 ?a 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 4340 1 1 b 11 *"^y\es#* / 512 4320 1 1(g 11 to me at \all# / 512 4350 1 1 g 12 ^don`t . ^don`t get me wr\ong# / 512 4360 2 1 g 21 ^I ((you know)) +'quite . / 512 4370 1 1 b 11 +"^ok\ay#+ / 512 4360 1 1(g 11 I`d+ ^almost pre!f\er to 'come in a# . / 512 4380 1 1 g 11 ^in a bl\ock# . / 512 4390 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# . / 512 4400 1 1 b 11 I mean "^I [?] - [@m] pre":s\/ume# / 512 4410 1 2 b 11 we can ^go on to con'clusions to !dr\aw from it / 512 4410 1 1 b 11 G/illian# / 512 4420 3 1 b 21 ^rather than / 512 4430 1 1 a 11 ^[/mhm]# / 512 4420 2 1(b 21 I mean *^I ^I`m* / 512 4440 1 1 a 11 *"^[/\m]#* / 512 4450 1 1 a 11 "^[/\m]# / 512 4420 1 1 b 11 cos ^th\/at`s what m\atters# - [@:m] / 512 4460 1 1 a 11 ^abso:l\utely# / 512 4470 1 1 b 13 ^the - ^I mean the ![o7] [??] the ^two ex:tr\emes# / 512 4480 1 1 b 11 ^are !either 'just doing :T\uesdays# / 512 4490 1 2 b 11 and ^then a !c\oncert or 'two ((1 syll as w/ell#)) / 512 4490 1 1 b 11 - / 512 4500 1 1 b 11 "^[?]\/or {if you`re ^d\/oing#}# / 512 4510 1 2 b 11 a "^bunch 'of - 'five or six re'hearsals in 'two / 512 4510 1 1 b 11 !w\eeks# - / 512 4520 1 1 b 11 ^which 'might _be - 'difficult to :\/organise# / 512 4530 1 1 b 11 [?]and the ^c\/ompro'mise# / 512 4540 1 1 b 11 ^is to - sort of "!t\ake# - - / 512 4550 1 1 b 11 a ^number of :T\/uesdays# / 512 4560 1 1 b 11 and ^fill 'in - !b\its# . / 512 4570 1 1 b 11 ^in be!tw\een# / 512 4580 1 1 b 11 the ^odd extra d/ay# / 512 4590 1 1 b 11 ^per w\eek# / 512 4600 1 2 g 12 "^that`s what we`re . you`re *^doing for* !next / 512 4600 1 1 g 12 t\ime# / 512 4610 1 1 g 11 ^y/eah# . / 512 4620 1 1 g 11 ^[\m]# / 512 4630 1 1 a 11 *^y\eah#* / 512 4640 1 1 b 11 ^y/es# / 512 4650 1 1 b 20 it [@m] / 512 4660 1 1 g 11 ^[\m]# / 512 4670 1 1 a 11 it`s a ^c\ompro'mise *((I th/ink#))* / 512 4680 1 1 b 11 *it ^is* a :c\/ompro'mise# / 512 4690 1 2 b 12 ^and [@m] ^compro'mises are 'always _something that/ 512 4690 1 1 b 12 w\orry me# - / 512 4700 1 1 d 11 ^[=m]# / 512 4710 1 1 b 11 [@:m] you +^kn/ow# . / 512 4720 1 1 b 11 ^ipso f\acto#+ / 512 4730 1 1 a 11 *^w\/ell#* / 512 4740 1 2 g 11 +^but [@] I *!think* the 'I T C "!!h\as+ to be / 512 4740 1 1 g 11 'something of a 'compromise# / 512 4750 1 1 g 11 cos ^as _Edward !!s\aid# / 512 4760 1 2 g 21 it ^is . _made _up of *(('different . 2 to 3 / 512 4760 1 1 g 21 sylls))* / 512 4770 1 1 a 11 *((^[\m]#))* / 512 4780 1 1 b 11 *^y\es# . / 512 4790 1 1 b 12 [@m] ^if it ^if it`s a suc!c\/essful* 'compromise# / 512 4800 1 1 b 11 ^that`s "!f\ine# / 512 4810 2 1 b 20 but I +mean+ / 512 4820 1 1 ?f 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 4810 1 2(b 10 ^compromises 'by their 'nature :normally "!\aren`t#/ 512 4810 1 1(b 10 - / 512 4830 1 1 d 11 ^[\m]# / 512 4840 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - - but I ^think it`s 'probably [@] ((I)) / 512 4840 1 1 b 11 ^st\ill 'think "pr/actically# / 512 4850 1 1 b 11 it`s ^probably the !best _thing to !d\o# / 512 4860 1 2 b 12 ^what [@] ^what - . 'Gill and 'I were :\/also / 512 4860 1 1 b 12 dis'cussing y\esterday# / 512 4870 1 1 b 11 I ^think is 'quite - 'im:p\/ortant# / 512 4880 1 2 b 11 that if we "^d\o a . a sort of {^bunch of / 512 4880 1 1 b 11 reh\earsals#}# . / 512 4890 1 1 b 11 ^based on T\uesdays 'say# / 512 4900 1 1 ? 11 ((^y\es#)) / 512 4910 1 2 b 12 ^I !think there are . the ^schedule for the !n\ext / 512 4910 1 1 b 12 'one# / 512 4920 1 2 b 11 ((2 sylls)) is ^too _far 'strung _out for "!m\y / 512 4920 1 1 b 11 'liking# - / 512 4930 1 2 b 12 [@m] - . but ^I`d . ^I`d 'be . !very 'pleased to / 512 4930 1 1 b 12 'hear . 'comments on :th\at# - / 512 4940 1 1 b 11 ^but !it`s "!very imp/ortant# / 512 4950 1 1 b 11 ^that . !when we`ve "!d\one a 'concert# / 512 4960 1 1 b 11 ^then there is a "!g\ap# / 512 4970 1 1 b 11 ^for - for !two or 'three :w\/eeks# - / 512 4980 1 1 b 11 ^so that the !!next . re":h\earsal# / 512 4990 1 1 b 11 ^is very "!d\efinitely# / 512 5000 1 2 b 11 the be^ginning '[?]of a "!bunch of re_hearsals for / 512 5000 1 1 b 11 the 'next c\oncert# / 512 5010 1 1 f 11 ^[=m]# / 512 5020 1 1 b 11 it ^isn`t 'simply 'oh :next 'week`s reh\earsal# / 512 5030 1 1 b 11 ^and sort of !turn /up# / 512 5040 1 1 b 11 and . ^think 'secondly 'oh what are we !d\oing# - / 512 5050 1 1 b 11 cos there`s a "^c\oncert you`re 'aiming 'at# / 512 5060 1 1 b 11 you ^know what you`re :d\/oing# - . / 512 5070 1 1 b 11 and the ^first re:h\/earsal# / 512 5080 1 1 b 11 you ^know there`s this !concert 'just coming !\up# / 512 5090 2 1 b 21 ^and / 512 5100 1 1 ?a 11 ^[\m]# . / 512 5090 1 1(b 11 "s\o on# / 512 5110 1 1 b 11 ^and the the "\other thing# / 512 5120 1 1 b 11 ((as)) you ^kn\ow# / 512 5130 1 2 b 11 is is ^actually 'getting - [@:m] [?] . :everyone / 512 5130 1 1 b 11 comm\itted# / 512 5140 1 1 b 11 ^at [s] sort of :one 'concert ah\ead# / 512 5150 1 1 b 11 com^pl\etely# / 512 5160 1 1 b 11 on ^what they`re d/oing# / 512 5170 1 1 b 11 and ^which reh/earsals they`re 'doing# / 512 5180 1 1 b 12 ^and - [@m] - - you ^kn/ow# / 512 5190 1 2 b 11 [??] ^we can !actually [??] i:d\/enti'fy the / 512 5190 1 1 b 11 c\oncert {and ((the)) re^h\earsals#}# - / 512 5200 1 1 b 11 for *^th\/at 'concert# / 512 5210 1 1 b 11 ^much !cl\earer# / 512 5220 1 1 b 11 ^[?]if we 'had ((it you know 'all !bunched !\up#))*/ 512 5230 1 2 g 14 *^would you . ^going ^going 'on _from . ^going 'on / 512 5230 1 1 g 14 _from th\at#* / 512 5240 1 1 g 11 ^would you 'be - - ":t\/erribly op'posed# - / 512 5250 1 1 g 11 ^to !when !when one !h/\ad a 'schedule# / 512 5260 1 1 g 11 of of . ^those !more _concen_trated reh/earsals# . / 512 5270 1 1 g 11 to ^actually 'stating . ":n\ow# / 512 5280 1 2 g 11 I mean ^like you 'would in a ":dr\ama for / 512 5280 1 1 g 11 /instance# / 512 5290 1 1 g 11 "^wh\at you`re _going to re_hearse# / 512 5300 1 1 g 11 at ^those re!h\earsals# / 512 5310 1 1 b 11 it ^is 'slightly 'difficult a:g\ain# / 512 5320 1 2 b 12 be^cause [@m] - it ^r\/eally is a 'matter . / 512 5320 1 1 b 12 *^((a/re many 'people 'actually)) g\oing to them#* / 512 5330 1 1 g 12 *because ^that . ^that \/actually# / 512 5340 1 1 g 12 ^[giv] - * the the ^point /is# / 512 5350 1 1 g 11 that . it ^seems to m\e a'bout th/at# / 512 5360 1 1 g 11 is that ^[?]if you 'actually "st\ate# / 512 5370 1 1 g 11 [?]in ad^v\/ance# / 512 5380 2 1 g 21 and "^really *:st\/ick / 512 5390 1 1 b 20 *[m]* / 512 5380 1 1(g 11 to* 'it# . / 512 5400 1 1 g 11 then "^[?]/\anybody# / 512 5410 1 1 g 11 who`s ^missed that reh/earsal# / 512 5420 1 1 g 11 will ^know e!xactly 'what they`ve *!!m\issed#* / 512 5430 1 1 ? 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 5440 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 5450 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 5460 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# + . / 512 5470 1 1 b 13 but ^I [mi:] ^it`s . ^ok/ay# / 512 5480 1 1 b 11 ^y\es# / 512 5490 1 1 b 11 "^f\ine#+ / 512 5500 1 1 g 11 +and it ^makes a "!!heck of a :d\ifference#+ / 512 5510 1 1(b 12 ^I ^I ac!c\/ept 'that# . / 512 5520 1 2 b 11 but ^is it 'possible to _do it the 'other way / 512 5520 1 1 b 11 ":r\ound# / 512 5530 1 1 b 11 ^l=ike# / 512 5540 1 2 b 11 for ^me to 'know who`s _going to be _at . the / 512 5540 1 1 b 11 re'hearsals :f\irst# / 512 5550 1 1 b 11 *((be^fore de"!c\iding#))* / 512 5560 1 1 a 11 *((^what 1 syll _difference does 'that m\ake#))* - / 512 5570 1 1 g 12 *^why does it . ^why does* it :m\atter R/oy# / 512 5580 1 2 g 11 you see ^that`s what 'I . 'I +((2 to 3 sylls)) - / 512 5580 1 1 g 11 you`ve ^always :s\/aid 'that# / 512 5590 1 1 g 21 ^but - + / 512 5600 1 1 f 11 +((look)) ^if you`ve got 'one w\/eek# / 512 5610 1 2 f 12 ^where !five ((out of)) ^four+ out of 'five of the / 512 5610 1 1 f 12 :t\/enors are a'way# / 512 5620 1 2 f 11 there`s ^no 'point re_hearsing the _items _where / 512 5620 1 1 f 11 the *!tenors are !pr\ominent# - * / 512 5630 1 1 a 11 *well then you ^just !go !!thr\ough it#* / 512 5640 1 1 g 11 * - ^y\eah# / 512 5650 3 1 g 22 you ^just . ^just* / 512 5660 1 1(a 21 ^just _go !straight +!thr\ough it / 512 5650 2 1 g 22 +I mean ^that *'very*+ 'rarely / 512 5670 1 1 a 10 *{^s\urely#}#*+ / 512 5650 1 1(g 12 [haep] . I ^m=ean# . / 512 5680 1 2 g 11 to ^h\ave an [ae] / 512 5680 1 1 g 11 a ^piece 'where . :one 'part is !so pre:d\/ominant#/ 512 5690 1 1 c 11 ^[\m]# / 512 5700 1 1 g 11 ((I mean)) like ^\alright# / 512 5710 1 1 g 11 it ^happens 'every 'now and ag/ain# / 512 5720 1 1 g 11 ^d\oesn`t it# / 512 5730 2 1 g 20 *like the* / 512 5740 1 1 ? 11 *^[=m]#* / 512 5730 1 1(g 10 ^Faure R/\equiem or 'something# / 512 5750 3 1 g 21 where +((there`s))+ ^no 'point / 512 5760 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 5750 2 1(g 21 'doing wi_thout the '[s@ulu:] . / 512 5770 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 512 5750 1 1(g 11 *"!p\arts#* / 512 5780 1 1 g 11 and "^s\/o 'on# . / 512 5790 1 1 g 11 I ^mean !that 'actually is 'quite :r/\are# . / 512 5800 1 1 g 11 ^m\/ost of the +'time#+ * - / 512 5810 1 1 g 11 who^\/ever`s 'there#* / 512 5820 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 5830 1 1 a 11 *^y\es# / 512 5840 1 1 a 11 you ^h\/appy 'with it#* / 512 5850 1 1 b 11 **^th\/ink 'so#** . / 512 5860 1 2 g 11 you+ **^have to _carry** _on . ++re_hearsing the / 512 5860 1 1 g 11 !same++ !!th\ing# / 512 5870 1 1 b 11 ++^n\o# - / 512 5880 1 1 b 11 ((oh ^y\eah#)) . / 512 5890 1 1 b 11 ^r\ight#++ / 512 5900 1 2 f 11 it`s "^where you`ve got 'stuff that`s "spl\it in / 512 5900 1 1 f 11 'one _part and _not _others# - - / 512 5910 1 1 b 11 *((can you ^p\/ass me 'that# . / 512 5920 1 1 b 20 I`ve))* / 512 5930 1 1(f 11 it`s *^where for ex!\ample# / 512 5940 1 2 f 11 you`ve ^got* a !lot of 'stuff that`s 'got 'split / 512 5940 1 1 f 11 sopr\anos# / 512 5950 1 2 f 11 you ^don`t want to 'do all the _stuff that`s +_got / 512 5950 1 1 f 11 'split so:pr\/anos (('in it# / 512 5960 1 1 f 11 when ^half of+ them are a!w\ay#)) / 512 5970 1 1 b 11 *that`s ^r/ight#* / 512 5980 1 3 g 13 +but you ^see - you ^[?]even '[w@] '[we] *^when+ / 512 5980 1 2 g 13 you* ^when you [s] ^when you`ve "!g\/ot 'that on / 512 5980 1 1 g 13 'schedule# / 512 5990 1 1 g 11 +and you+ ^s/\ay# / 512 6000 1 1 g 11 ^l\ook# / 512 6010 1 1 g 11 I`m ^g/\oing to be 'doing - 'A 'B or 'C# . / 512 6020 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]# - - - / 512 6030 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]#+ / 512 6040 1 1(g 11 ^on 'this d/ay# - / 512 6050 1 1 g 11 you ((can)) ^even put !!\after it# . / 512 6060 1 1 g 11 ^N \B# - / 512 6070 1 1 g 11 ^t\enors# / 512 6080 1 2 g 11 ^will you 'please all 'make a 'special 'effort to / 512 6080 1 1 g 11 !!b\e there# . / 512 6090 1 1 g 11 +I ^m=ean# / 512 6100 1 1 g 11 ^what`s 'wrong with th\at#+ / 512 6110 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]# . / 512 6120 1 1 b 11 ^but they !sh\ould be 'making+ a 'special 'effort# / 512 6130 1 1 b 11 to ^be at a new re'hearsal /\anyway#+ / 512 6140 1 1 b 21 *and it`s ^getting a :bit 'late* / 512 6150 1 1 a 11 *but you`ve ^got to 'spell it* +'!!\out for them# ./ 512 6160 1 1 a 11 cos it`s+ **^not w/ orking#** / 512 6170 1 1 s 20 *(hubbub, several voices, several sylls)* / 512 6180 1 1 ? 11 *((you ^can`t m/ake them#))* / 512 6190 1 1 g 11 +but but ^n/\obo+**dy`s {"^m\aking them#}#** / 512 6200 1 1 b 11 **^y\es# . / 512 6210 1 1 b 20 but . but I`m** / 512 6220 1 2 g 11 ^nobody can 'make "[?]\every . / 512 6220 1 1 g 11 you ^((can`t)) ex"p\ect (({at ^th\is 'stage#}#)) / 512 6230 1 1 g 11 ^/\everybody can 'make# / 512 6240 1 1 g 11 "^{[?]\every} re":h\/earsal# / 512 6250 1 1 f 11 ^n\o# / 512 6260 1 1 f 12 but ^if ^if there !happens to be 'one re:h\earsal# / 512 6270 1 1 f 11 ((at)) ^which there !is 'only 'one :t\/enor# / 512 6280 1 1 f 11 and they ^can`t do it :\other'wise# / 512 6290 1 1 f 11 and you`ve ^actually !sche'duled - al:r\eady# / 512 6300 1 1 f 11 ^s\/ome*thing or 'other#* / 512 6310 1 1 g 12 *well ((^I)) [re6] that`s a* ^bit 'un!!l\ikely# / 512 6320 1 1 g 11 ^/\isn`t it# / 512 6330 1 1 g 11 if you`ve **^said** in adv/ance# / 512 6340 1 1 ?c 11 **^y\es#** / 512 6350 1 1(g 11 that it`s +^going+ to 'be . :d\/ifferent# / 512 6360 1 1 ?e 11 +^y=es#+ / 512 6370 1 1 f 11 but ^why c\an`t you# / 512 6380 1 1 f 21 *^actually* / 512 6390 1 2 b 12 *((well)) ^how much 'are* people 'able to - ^I / 512 6390 1 1 b 12 don`t kn/\ow how 'much people +are 'able# / 512 6400 1 1 b 21 to ((ap^portion 'their))+ / 512 6410 1 1 g 11 +^well I mean they`ve 'got the 'schedule+ n/ow# / 512 6420 1 1 g 11 for ^next * - ((t/erm#))* / 512 6430 1 1 f 11 *^y\es# / 512 6440 2 1 f 21 but +^why+ 'can`t* the / 512 6450 1 1 b 11 +^y\es#+ / 512 6440 1 1(f 11 if the ^schedule for 'now is [?]\out# - / 512 6460 1 1 f 11 ^why . c\an`t 'we# / 512 6470 1 1 f 11 how^ever we de'cide to d\o it# / 512 6480 1 1 f 11 ^why 'can`t 'we :ascert\ain# / 512 6490 1 1 f 11 ^who is 'going to _be _[?]at 'which reh\earsal# - -/ 512 6500 1 1 f 11 ^say by the 'end of :th\/is 'month# - - . / 512 6510 1 1 f 11 and "^th\en# / 512 6520 1 1 f 11 there "^is an 'opport\/unity# - . / 512 6530 1 2 f 21 ^to . 'sort _out - - !which 'pieces *are ((going / 512 6530 1 1 f 21 several sylls))* / 512 6540 1 1 b 11 *well ^[?]actually y\es#* . / 512 6550 1 1 b 11 for ^this 'coming :c\/oncert# / 512 6560 1 3 b 10 ((1 to 2 sylls)) / 512 6560 1 2 b 10 +I ^think that`s (('fairly)) irr\elevant / 512 6560 1 1 b 10 /actually#+ / 512 6570 2 1 g 21 +I ^think 'Roy **'probably**+ / 512 6580 1 1 s 20 **(hubbub, several sylls)** / 512 6570 1 1(g 11 'doesn`t really m/\atter# / 512 6590 1 1 f 11 "^n\o# . / 512 6600 1 1 f 11 ((it **"^d\oesn`t matter 'much#))** / 512 6610 1 1 b 11 **^not for :th\/at one#** / 512 6620 1 2 b 11 but ^I`d . _I *!think ((for)) the St :M\/ark`s / 512 6620 1 1 b 11 'one# / 512 6630 1 1 b 21 it`s ^much _more im!p\ortant 'for* / 512 6640 1 2 f 12 *((but)) ^even if it ^even if 'this was a '[ko7ns] / 512 6640 1 1 f 12 a* . a _thing that "^w\/as 'working out 'that way# / 512 6650 1 1 f 11 ^you could "!!th\en 'look at the 'schedule# / 512 6660 1 1 f 11 and ^say well !!ok/ay# - / 512 6670 1 1 f 11 if ^I 'do :this 'piece :th\is 'week# / 512 6680 1 2 f 11 and ^this 'piece - - 'two weeks :l\ater or / 512 6680 1 1 f 11 'something# / 512 6690 1 2 f 11 ^then at !least the 'half a 'dozen 'people who / 512 6690 1 1 f 11 :happen to be a'way :both t/imes# / 512 6700 1 1 f 11 ^won`t !m\iss it 'both _times _sort of _thing# / 512 6710 1 1 f 12 I ^mean you ^kn/ow# / 512 6720 3 1 f 22 ^you can . you can ^actually 'sort of - - / 512 6730 1 1 g 21 ^see +!I((`d)) th\/ought ((we could))+ / 512 6720 2 1(f 22 +!{pl\an it}+ to :suit / 512 6740 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 6720 1 1(f 12 *who`s* !th\ere# / 512 6750 1 2 f 11 as +^well as 'just+ **sort of ((2 sylls)) the / 512 6750 1 1 f 11 :pr\essure 'off#** / 512 6760 1 1 g 22 +((^well . ^with))+ / 512 6770 1 2 b 12 **((sort of)) ^thinking of some . ** ^thinking of / 512 6770 1 1 b 12 the !concerts 'coming \up# / 512 6780 1 2 b 11 I ^don`t think 'that`s . :that 'matters / 512 6780 1 1 b 11 par:t\/icularly# . / 512 6790 1 2 b 11 and for the ^Brahms R\equiem it 'doesn`t _matter / 512 6790 1 1 b 11 par_ticularly# . / 512 6800 1 1 b 11 it ^does for ((an'other)) par'ticular *:c\/oncert#*/ 512 6810 1 1 g 22 ^well it !might if [j] 'if ^if 'you / 512 6820 1 1 f 11 ^[\/m]# / 512 6830 1 2 b 12 [@m] ^there "are a [gus] I was I was "^going to / 512 6830 1 1 b 12 s\ay# / 512 6840 1 1 b 11 there "^are par'ticular :c\/oncerts# / 512 6850 1 2 b 11 ^one !could 'say it`s (('going to be more / 512 6850 1 1 b 11 :d\/ifficult#)) / 512 6860 1 1 g 11 ((I)) ^I mean !knowing 'you R/oy# / 512 6870 1 1 g 11 ^you !may 'pick on :one or 'two ch/oruses# / 512 6880 1 1 g 11 that ^you +'think+ are par!ticularly d/ifficult# / 512 6890 2 1 g 21 *^or* / 512 6900 1 1 b 11 +^y/eah#+ / 512 6910 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 6890 1 1(g 11 that we !need par:ticular w\ork 'on# / 512 6920 1 1 b 11 ^[/m]# / 512 6930 1 1 g 11 and ^knowing y/ou# / 512 6940 1 1 g 11 ^you !could 'work 'on th/ose# / 512 6950 1 1 g 11 to the ex^clusion of the !!\others# . / 512 6960 1 1 g 11 be^cause you will !w\orry a'bout them# . / 512 6970 1 1 g 11 ^now I`m !not 'sure 'that`s 'that`s g/ood# . / 512 6980 2 1 g 21 [?@] *^for* 'all the / 512 6990 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 6980 1 1(g 11 !!r\est of 'us# . / 512 7000 1 1 g 11 I can ^see 'why ":y\/ou 'do it# / 512 7010 1 1 b 11 "^y\es# . / 512 7020 1 1 b 21 I ^mean *[@]* / 512 7030 1 1 g 11 *but* I mean if ^you were 'actually 'tied d\own# / 512 7040 1 2 g 11 to ^knowing what you 'had to do 'every / 512 7040 1 1 g 11 re+h\/earsal#+ / 512 7050 1 1 b 11 +^y\es#+ / 512 7060 1 1 c 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 7070 1 2(g 11 *^I* 'think _that would be of a tre!!m\en+dous / 512 7070 1 1(g 11 b/enefit# / 512 7080 1 1 g 11 to ^everybody !!\else#+ / 512 7090 1 1 b 11 +^I !n\ormally# / 512 7100 1 2 b 11 ^get _through !m\/ost of+ 'what I in'tend to 'do at/ 512 7100 1 1 b 11 a re'hearsal# / 512 7110 2 1 b 22 but [ne] ^but - ^this is *[@:m]* / 512 7120 1 1 a 11 *((^y\es#))* - . / 512 7110 1 2(b 12 ^I mean I !normally 'end 'up _say !two 'small / 512 7110 1 1(b 12 'items sh\ort# - / 512 7130 1 1 b 11 ^of !what I ((was)) 'planning +to d\o# - / 512 7140 1 1 b 11 ^b=ut#+ / 512 7150 1 1 g 11 +it ^seems to m\e# / 512 7160 1 1 g 11 that ^when we`ve !ever 'had+ a "b\/itty re'hearsal#/ 512 7170 2 1 g 21 ^there are !always *'some* 'things that / 512 7180 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 7170 1 1(g 11 [o7] are . +:not "!\/over re'hearsed# / 512 7190 1 1 g 11 ((2 sylls)) but "^very+ ":very !f\/ully re'hearsed#/ 512 7200 1 2 g 11 and ^others that are !barely re**_hearsed at / 512 7200 1 1 g 11 !\all#** / 512 7210 1 1 b 11 +^((yes qu\ite))# . / 512 7220 1 2 b 11 but ^it`s . it`s !((always a 'matter of)) 'how / 512 7220 1 1 b 11 much+ **^y\es#** / 512 7230 1 1 f 11 **well "^I 'felt :th\is** 'time# / 512 7240 1 1 f 12 the ^[bra6] the the ^B\/yrd# . / 512 7250 2 1 f 21 al^though it *'[w@z]* [?@m] / 512 7260 1 1 c 11 *^y\es#* / 512 7250 1 1(f 11 you ^kn/ow# / 512 7270 1 1 f 11 +((the ^star)) !pr\oblem# - / 512 7280 1 1 b 11 +well it . it ^took a 'time to 'get g\oing# . / 512 7290 1 1 b 11 ((^wh/at#)) . / 512 7300 1 1 b 11 ^[?][=m]#+ / 512 7310 1 1(f 11 ((but the)) ^Byrd 'got 'go+ing _rather !w\ell# / 512 7320 2 2 f 21 and ^actually 'was one of the :better 'things that / 512 7320 2 1 f 21 _we . *per*!f\ormed in / 512 7330 1 1 b 11 *^y\/es#* / 512 7320 1 1(f 11 'that week'end# - / 512 7340 1 2 f 11 ^whereas the !stuff that 'we +":sh\ould+ have been / 512 7340 1 1 f 11 'able to 'do _perfectly _well# / 512 7350 1 1 f 11 cos we`d ^done it be!f\/ore# / 512 7360 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 7370 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 7380 1 2 f 14 ^got ^got (('probably)) I ^mean - ^just !going / 512 7380 1 1 f 14 'back to the :post!m\ortem for a 'minute# / 512 7390 1 2 f 11 and ^I do !not 'say this :[?]as ![?]any 'criticism / 512 7390 1 1 f 11 of the 'li:br\arian# / 512 7400 1 1 f 11 ^in the sl\ightest# / 512 7410 1 1 f 11 but ^n\ext 'time we _do the _Liebes_lieder# / 512 7420 1 2 f 11 ^can we _actually in'vest in our "/\own 'set of / 512 7420 1 1 f 11 'copies# / 512 7430 1 2 f 11 ^which have 'got the !right 'words _under the / 512 7430 1 1 f 11 *"!right* p/arts# / 512 7440 2 1 f 21 +^so that !right from the+ / 512 7450 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 7460 1 1 b 11 +^((should)) 'speed things /up#+ / 512 7440 1 1(f 11 "!st\art# - / 512 7470 1 1 f 21 we ^don`t 'have / 512 7480 1 2 b 11 ^I mean !certainly :copies *((would !help on / 512 7480 1 1 b 11 'this)) 'problem#* / 512 7490 1 1 f 11 *you ^don`t* !slow 'people ":d\/own# / 512 7500 1 1 f 12 ^by a !(([po7zh])) . it`s e"^xactly the :s\ame# / 512 7510 1 1 f 11 I ^mean !G\od# / 512 7520 1 1 f 11 if ^ever 'I 'had t\/ime# / 512 7530 1 1 f 21 +^I would !sit 'down and+ / 512 7540 1 2 g 11 +I ^thought 'Roy 'said there+ w/\eren`t 'any / 512 7540 1 1 g 11 'copies# . / 512 7550 1 1 g 11 *((^other than th/ose#)) - / 512 7560 1 1 g 21 ^d/idn`t you 'say ((that))* / 512 7570 1 2 f 12 *^I would sit 'down and 'write . 'out ^we !couldn`t/ 512 7570 1 1 f 12 'get* ":h\old of 'any {from the ^l\ibrary#}# / 512 7580 2 1 f 21 but ^I !think / 512 7590 1 1 b 11 +^we !couldn`t get :h\old of 'any# - / 512 7600 1 1 b 11 ^y\/es#+ / 512 7580 1 2(f 11 +if 'that _piece is ":g\/oing to continue+ to come / 512 7580 1 1(f 11 'up# / 512 7610 1 2 f 21 ^praps it`s 'something 'we should con'sider *[?] / 512 7610 1 1 f 21 ((sylls))* / 512 7620 1 1 b 11 *^I !don`t kn\ow# / 512 7630 1 1 b 11 there ^are 'various e:d\/itions#* / 512 7640 1 1 a 11 *the ^problem /is# - * / 512 7650 1 1 a 11 that that . ^/\any li'brarian# / 512 7660 1 1 a 11 ^doesn`t "!kn\/ow# . / 512 7670 1 2 a 11 ^what the 'copies are 'going to be 'like be:fore / 512 7670 1 1 a 11 they !g\et +'them#+ / 512 7680 1 1 f 11 +^n\o#+ / 512 7690 1 1 b 11 +^n\o#+ / 512 7700 1 1 b 11 well we ^do *s\/ome'times# / 512 7710 1 1 b 11 but ^not !\often# . [@:m]* / 512 7720 1 1 f 11 *^that is a pr\oblem#* / 512 7730 1 2 f 12 ^that`s _something _I _think [?]if :we 'can - ^if / 512 7730 1 1 f 12 **+we can+ !h\elp in 'any 'way# / 512 7740 1 2 f 11 ^by !finding** 'out what e:dition they +_are+ and / 512 7740 1 1 f 11 _all the !r\est of it# / 512 7750 1 1 f 20 it *((several sylls))* / 512 7760 1 1 a 12 **it was ((^only)) ^y\es# / 512 7770 2 1 a 21 cos ^Ruislip :Library`s** / 512 7780 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 7790 1 1 b 20 +[m]+ / 512 7770 1 1(a 11 *'called all their 'music \in#* / 512 7800 1 1 a 11 ^th\at was why it w/as# / 512 7810 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 512 7820 1 1 ?g 21 well ^I / 512 7830 1 1 f 11 "^n\o# / 512 7840 1 1 f 11 ^[?]as _I !s\aid# / 512 7850 1 1 f 11 it`s ^no cr\iticism# / 512 7860 1 1 f 11 ^I !know it was a :pr\oblem# / 512 7870 2 1 f 21 and +^I+ / 512 7880 1 1 b 11 +^y/eah# . / 512 7890 1 1 b 11 it ^very often \is#+ / 512 7870 1 1(f 11 ^I mean !all *^all ^all cr/edit# / 512 7900 1 2 f 12 for ^getting the ((![nek] ^getting)) the* !right / 512 7900 1 1 f 12 ones at !\all# / 512 7910 1 1 a 10 *((5 sylls)) the r\ight 'copies#* / 512 7920 1 1 b 11 ^well it`s the "!s\ame# / 512 7930 1 1 b 11 for ((the)) ^T\/ippett# / 512 7940 1 1 b 12 I ^mean + . ^they`re . "!dr\eadful to 'read# / 512 7950 1 1 b 11 ((and ^that`s the 'only - l\ot#))+ / 512 7960 1 1 f 11 +well ^it was e!xactly the s/ame# / 512 7970 1 2 f 11 ^when we !did 'that :set of !seven 'rather 'nice+ / 512 7970 1 1 f 11 'Brahms 'songs in 'East C\oker# / 512 7980 1 1 f 11 ^which !I should *think* /\every'body 'here# / 512 7990 2 1 f 21 re^members with / 512 8000 1 1 b 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 8010 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 512 7990 1 1(f 11 !total ":dr\/ead# - / 512 8020 1 1 f 11 **be**^cause - !we 'were _[?]un![?]\able# . / 512 8030 1 1 f 11 to ^just _pick them \up# / 512 8040 1 1 f 11 and ^s\ing them# . / 512 8050 1 1 f 11 *^in the f/irst 'place# / 512 8060 1 1 b 11 *^well the !main :pr\/oblem# / 512 8070 1 1 b 12 ^is ((2 sylls)) ((^y\es#)) / 512 8080 1 1 b 20 ((1 syll))* / 512 8090 1 1(f 11 "^\any'way# / 512 8100 1 1 f 11 we* ^spent the !first thr/\ee re'hearsals# / 512 8110 1 1 f 11 ^trying to work 'out 'what the hell w/ords# / 512 8120 1 1 f 11 ^went under 'what the hell :n\otes# . / 512 8130 1 1 f 11 the ^Tippett :Sp\/irituals# / 512 8140 1 1 f 11 ^[?]are a!nother 'case in :p\oint# / 512 8150 1 1 f 11 ^now we`ve !done 'those 'lots of :t\imes# / 512 8160 1 1 f 11 and we ^know them :b\etter# - / 512 8170 1 1 f 11 ^but the "!m\ixture# - / 512 8180 1 2 f 11 ^of . ![?]all those 'little t\ails all 'over the / 512 8180 1 1 f 11 _place# / 512 8190 1 1 f 11 "^tw\o 'sets of w/ords# / 512 8200 1 1 f 11 re"^p\eats 'all /over the 'place# / 512 8210 1 1 f 11 and ^all the r\est of it# / 512 8220 1 2 f 11 if ^any'body :doesn`t 'know the thing !pr\actically/ 512 8220 1 1 f 11 'off by _memory# / 512 8230 1 1 f 11 ^/\any'way# / 512 8240 1 2 f 12 ^you`d !spend ^you could !spend your !whole - / 512 8240 1 1 f 12 "t/\ime# . / 512 8250 1 1 f 11 ^fishing 'through that c\opy *((several sylls))#* / 512 8260 1 1 b 11 *^by m\emory# / 512 8270 1 1 b 11 ^hope +you 'got :th\at one d/own# . ( . laugh)+* / 512 8280 1 1 a 11 +^w=ell# - / 512 8290 1 1 a 11 well+ ^th=en# . / 512 8300 2 1 a 21 **I ^mean / 512 8310 1 1 b 11 **^[=m]#** / 512 8320 1 1 f 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 8300 1 2(a 11 !that`s** +'just+ :that`s 'just !case ((for)) / 512 8300 1 1(a 11 !h\omework# / 512 8330 1 1 a 11 ^\isn`t it# * - / 512 8340 1 1 a 20 ((I think))* / 512 8350 1 1 f 11 *it "^\is a 'case for 'homework# / 512 8360 1 1 f 11 but ^all the :s\ame# / 512 8370 1 2 f 21 you`ve ^only 'got a !very 'bitty* +((several / 512 8370 1 1 f 21 sylls))+ / 512 8380 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]# - / 512 8390 1 1 b 11 it "^\is# / 512 8400 1 2 b 11 but ^it would !simply 'be more :((1 s\yll 1 syll)) / 512 8400 1 1 b 11 - less# / 512 8410 1 1 b 21 if ^you could* +((several sylls))+ / 512 8420 1 1 a 11 +^y\es# / 512 8430 1 1 a 11 ^absol\utely# . / 512 8440 1 1 a 11 but ^I _mean the !T\ippett# / 512 8450 1 1 a 11 there ^\isn`t+ a'nother 'copy of the 'Tippett# / 512 8460 1 1 ? 20 +((several words))+ / 512 8470 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# / 512 8480 1 1 f 11 **^n\o#** / 512 8490 1 1 a 11 ^so you just **!have** to do the !h\ome'work# / 512 8500 1 1 b 11 *"^r\ight# . / 512 8510 1 1 b 11 there`s ^th\at# / 512 8520 1 1 b 20 ((1 syll))* / 512 8530 1 2 g 11 *^well in a !sense 'that`s 'just* 'something we`ve / 512 8530 1 1 g 11 got to ":l\ive with# / 512 8540 1 1 g 11 ^\isn`t +it# ((5 to 6 sylls))+ / 512 8550 1 1 a 11 +^y\es# / 512 8560 1 1 a 20 ((several sylls))+ / 512 8570 1 1 f 10 'saying+ "w/\e can 'do 'anything *ab/out it#* / 512 8580 1 1 b 11 + - ^y\eah#+ - / 512 8590 1 2 b 11 *^I mean ((it`s))* !simply 'try and a'void it if we/ 512 8590 1 1 b 11 !c\an# - / 512 8600 2 1 b 23 ^I mean **^I . [?@] . ^there _is _one** / 512 8610 1 1 a 21 **((there`s ^fift\een))** - / 512 8600 1 1(b 13 ^can I just s\ay# / 512 8620 1 2 b 11 there`s ^one other \element {^on ^on ((the)) / 512 8620 1 1 b 11 _postm\ortem#}# / 512 8630 1 1 b 11 ^which I 'didn`t _say \earlier# / 512 8640 1 2 b 12 was [?@] ^was - [@m] the ^matter of 'whether in / 512 8640 1 1 b 12 f\act# . / 512 8650 1 1 b 11 ((for the)) ^number of re!h\earsals# . / 512 8660 1 1 b 11 and ^s/o 'on# / 512 8670 1 1 b 11 ^there was . simply 'too much :music to !d\o# - / 512 8680 1 1 d 11 oh there ^sh\ouldn`t have 'been# / 512 8690 1 1 a 22 ^n\o *((^I don`t think so))* / 512 8700 1 1 ? 20 *no [?] ((sylls))* / 512 8710 1 2 b 11 *"^\/I think there 'shouldn`t have been / 512 8710 1 1 b 11 'personally#* . / 512 8720 1 1 b 11 ^do you 'all a!gr\/ee# / 512 8730 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 8740 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 512 8750 1 1 ?g 11 +((^th\ank you for /asking#))+ / 512 8760 1 1 b 11 +you ^d\o# . / 512 8770 1 1 b 11 "^r\ight# . + / 512 8780 1 2 b 10 **((2 sylls)) . / 512 8780 1 1 b 10 ^I`m . \interested in the re'action#** / 512 8790 1 1 a 11 **but ^I !do 'feel :f\/airly 'strongly# / 512 8800 1 1 a 11 ^\al'so# / 512 8810 1 2 a 11 that we ^ought to** 'bash {thr\ough 'things} / 512 8810 1 1 a 11 !m\ore# - / 512 8820 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 8830 1 1 a 11 [@] ^just 'bash thr/ough# / 512 8840 1 1 a 11 ^[?]=and [@:]# . / 512 8850 1 1 a 11 ^just to !keep 'things . :[?]in +'people`s m\inds#+/ 512 8860 1 1 b 11 +((for)) . fa^mili!\arity# . + / 512 8870 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 512 8880 2 1 g 21 *^get* an !over'all [im] . / 512 8890 1 1 b 20 +( - throat clearing)+ / 512 8880 1 1(g 21 +((several sylls))+ / 512 8900 1 2 a 11 +((and)) ^get an _over_all+ im_pression of the / 512 8900 1 1 a 11 _whole w\ork# / 512 8910 1 1 a 11 ^t\oo# / 512 8920 1 1 a 20 of *[@m] [@]* / 512 8930 1 1 b 11 *^y/es#* / 512 8940 1 1 ? 11 **((1 syll)) ^[\m]# / 512 8950 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]#** / 512 8960 1 2 d 11 it ^is a 'problem if you **"!miss reh\earsals# . **/ 512 8960 1 1 d 11 - / 512 8970 1 1 d 11 [@:] you ^kn/ow# / 512 8980 1 1 d 11 we`ve ^been \over 'this# / 512 8990 1 2 d 12 I ^mean if ^if _you ![?]actually :concentrate on a / 512 8990 1 1 d 12 !few 'works - :in a par!t\icular 'week# - / 512 9000 1 1 d 11 and ^then you "!miss . a w\eek or 'two# / 512 9010 1 1 d 11 as "^I "h/\ave 'to# / 512 9020 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9030 1 1 a 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 9040 1 2 d 12 *^you* !maybe :don`t sing I I mean ^I 'sang / 512 9040 1 1 d 12 'Captain 'Noah for the :first 'time you ^kn/ow# / 512 9050 1 1 d 11 a ^week before the !c\oncert or 'something# / 512 9060 1 1 d 11 ((^simply be'cause)) 'I((`d)) "!m\issed# / 512 9070 1 1 d 11 when^ever 'else _you`d +'you`d+ "!d\one it# / 512 9080 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 9090 1 1 f 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9100 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9110 1 1 d 11 ^if you *!bash !!thr\ough 'things# . / 512 9120 1 1 d 11 ^warts and /\all# - * / 512 9130 1 1 b 11 *^well we 'hadn`t 'done ((it)) m/uch# - / 512 9140 1 1 b 11 ((1 syll)) . ^only !once \/other#* . / 512 9150 1 1 b 11 "^y\es# - / 512 9160 1 1 d 11 ^you kn/ow# / 512 9170 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 9180 1 1 a 20 +((several sylls))+ / 512 9190 1 1 b 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 9200 1 1 d 11 ^slightly 'more :\often# / 512 9210 1 1 c 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 9220 1 2(d 11 *^just* so that 'people actually get a ":nodding / 512 9220 1 1(d 11 ac:qu\ain+tance ((with it))#+ / 512 9230 2 2 b 22 +^yes I !think 'they would+ . [?] ^this 'does / 512 9230 2 1 b 22 *'seem* / 512 9240 1 1 ? 11 *^[\m]#* / 512 9230 1 1(b 12 to 'be +[?]a :bit 'more ((2 s\ylls))# / 512 9250 1 1 b 12 ^I will !try and (('do it)) . ((^tr\ouble /is# / 512 9260 1 1 b 11 it`s ^sl\ow#))+ . / 512 9270 1 1 d 11 **^[\m]#** / 512 9280 1 1 f 11 +^I !think in a w\/ay# / 512 9290 1 1 f 11 you ^need to do 'that to be:g\in 'with 'more# / 512 9300 1 1 f 11 and ^then+ "!n\/earer **the** 'concert# / 512 9310 1 1 f 11 ^p\ossibly# / 512 9320 1 1 d 11 *^y\eah# / 512 9330 1 1 d 11 well ^then y\es# / 512 9340 1 1 d 11 ^y\es# / 512 9350 1 1 d 11 ^y\es#* / 512 9360 1 1 f 11 you could *^miss the odd 'item :\out# / 512 9370 1 1 f 11 because you ^know it`s* alr/\eady fa'miliar# / 512 9380 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9390 1 2 f 12 ((be ^that)) . cos the "^trouble 'is if you ":bash / 512 9390 1 1 f 12 through 'everything 'warts and all :\/every 'week# / 512 9400 1 2 f 11 ^you !would 'actually end 'up with 'no re'hearsal / 512 9400 1 1 f 11 time to 'actually p\olish *((anything))# / 512 9410 1 1 f 21 ((because I mean)) you* ^have 'got / 512 9420 1 1 d 12 *you`ve ^got . you`ve ^got ((to :c\ompromise#))* / 512 9430 1 2 a 11 *well ^if _you 'say* . that +:come 'ten 'past / 512 9430 1 1 a 11 :n\/ine#+ / 512 9440 1 1 f 20 +((two and a half hours sylls))+ / 512 9450 1 1 b 11 +^y\eah#+ / 512 9460 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 512 9470 1 1 a 11 ^just de'cided **to . ** :st\op# / 512 9480 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 512 9490 1 1 a 11 ^sort of [@m] - :n\ote 'bashing# / 512 9500 1 1 a 11 or what^/ever# / 512 9510 1 1 a 11 and . ^just !s\ing 'through tw/o or three things# ./ 512 9520 1 1 a 11 *((^once or !tw\ice#))* / 512 9530 1 1 b 11 *^y/es# . * / 512 9540 1 2 b 11 ^I !do !find it . :in . 'be !c\areful 'doing th/at#/ 512 9540 1 1 b 11 . / 512 9550 1 2 b 13 in that ^people - - :can ^if you`re ^if you just / 512 9550 1 1 b 13 "bash thr\ough 'things# - / 512 9560 1 1 b 11 wi"^th\out actually 'taking c/are a'bout them# / 512 9570 1 2 b 11 ^people can '[d@] . sort of :end up the / 512 9570 1 1 b 11 re:{h\earsal} 'rather de":pr\essed - /actually# / 512 9580 1 1 b 12 at at the "^way +you ^kn/ow# / 512 9590 1 2 b 11 ((that)) you`re ^not 'getting 'something 'right / 512 9590 1 1 b 11 (('all the way al/ong# / 512 9600 1 1 b 21 it`s)) ^psycho!l\ogically+ / 512 9610 1 1 a 11 +^y\es# / 512 9620 1 1 a 11 ^w=ell# . / 512 9630 1 2 a 11 ((I ^think)) you just 'need to . :point 'out a 'few/ 512 9630 1 1 a 11 'things be'fore+ we st\/art# / 512 9640 2 1 a 21 ((and)) re*^mind* 'people a'bout / 512 9650 1 1 b 11 *"^y/eah#* / 512 9660 1 1 f 11 +^[\m]#+ / 512 9640 1 1(a 11 [@] the the +:main+ th/ings# / 512 9670 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9680 2 1 a 21 ^and !say that it`s 'just to / 512 9690 1 1 f 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9700 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# / 512 9680 1 1 a 11 you ^kn/ow# / 512 9710 1 1 b 12 *I ^do . I ^do "tr\y and 'end a re'hearsal# / 512 9720 1 1 b 11 with ^some (('something ((t\astier))#))* / 512 9730 1 1 f 11 *the ^only !pr\/oblem is# / 512 9740 1 4 f 12 if ^people 'seem ((to be)) if ^people 'bash / 512 9740 1 3 f 12 'through it 'three weeks* 'running wi:thout going / 512 9740 1 2 f 12 'back con:tinually 'getting the 'same part / 512 9740 1 1 f 12 ":wr\ong# - / 512 9750 1 2 b 12 ^well +one has !got - one has ^got to 'stop a / 512 9750 1 1 b 12 :c\ertain a'mount of 'things 'going wr/ong#+ / 512 9760 1 2 f 12 +and it ^may 'be 'some'thing to - you ^got to be / 512 9760 1 1 f 12 :c\areful#+ / 512 9770 1 2 f 12 cos there ^are 'things ((that)) I ^know the 'answer/ 512 9770 1 1 f 12 to th/at would be# / 512 9780 1 1 f 11 well ^ok/ay# / 512 9790 1 2 f 11 ^go a'way and [w@?] and 'work _on it with the / 512 9790 1 1 f 11 pi'ano at h\ome# / 512 9800 1 1 f 11 and ^all the !r\est of it# - / 512 9810 1 1 f 11 there ^are !some th/ings# / 512 9820 1 1 f 11 that ^you can !work . with a pi'ano at h\/ome# / 512 9830 1 1 f 11 ^till _you`re !blue in the :f\ace# / 512 9840 1 2 f 11 and the ^moment you 'get _there with :everybody / 512 9840 1 1 f 11 !\else 'singing 'their p/arts# / 512 9850 1 1 f 11 it ^somehow *'isn`t* +'quite the+ ":s\ame# / 512 9860 1 1 a 11 *^y/es#* / 512 9870 1 1 d 11 +^oh y\es#+ / 512 9880 1 1 ? 20 **(([m])) (throat clear)** / 512 9890 1 2 a 11 **there ^wasn`t 'anything 'much** in that l\ast / 512 9890 1 1 a 11 'concert *(('though))# / 512 9900 1 1 a 11 +^nor . will there+ 'be in the !n\/ext 'one#* / 512 9910 1 1 b 11 +^[/m]#+ / 512 9920 1 1 f 11 *"^n\o# . / 512 9930 1 2 f 11 ^I`m !not 'saying ((ig"n/ore the last 'concert#)) ./ 512 9930 1 1 f 11 * / 512 9940 2 2 f 22 but but ^that !is **'something that [@] there "^are/ 512 9940 2 1 f 22 c\ertain** / 512 9950 1 1 b 11 **^[\m]#** / 512 9960 1 1 a 20 **((5 to 6 sylls))** / 512 9940 1 1(f 12 'things 'somet/imes# / 512 9970 1 1 f 11 that it ^is oc:c\asionally# / 512 9980 1 2 f 11 ^worth 'really 'taking to :{p\ieces} :s\/everal / 512 9980 1 1 f 11 'times# / 512 9990 1 1 f 11 with ^every'body th\ere# / 512 10000 2 1 f 21 be^cause it`s the !only 'way you :actually / 512 10010 1 1 d 11 ^oh y\es# / 512 10000 1 1 f 11 *((1 s\yll#))* / 512 10020 1 2 b 12 ^d`you . *^d`you* 'ana_lyse the a'mount / 512 10020 1 1 b 12 [in'vidigl7] . _people ":t\alk {[?]on ^th\is#}# / 512 10030 1 1 b 11 as ^w\ell# - / 512 10040 1 1 c 11 *( - - laughs) - ^((g\rr#))* / 512 10050 1 2 a 12 * - ^could !!you . [@m] if ^anybody* would 'like / 512 10050 1 1 a 12 any m\ore# / 512 10060 1 1 a 11 there ^\isn`t a'nother c/ourse# . / 512 10070 1 1 a 11 ^so !pl=ease# . / 512 10080 2 1 a 21 *"^dig 'in* / 512 10090 1 1 ?d 11 *( - . laughs) +^good L/ord#+* / 512 10100 1 1 g 11 +"^r\eally+ **'Gillian#** / 512 10080 1 1 a 11 **to the **((:r\est#)) / 512 10110 1 1 a 11 ^I`m !terribly :s\/orry# / 512 10120 1 1 g 11 ^no +p\udding#+ / 512 10130 1 1 ?c 11 +"^f\an+cy# / 512 10140 1 1 a 11 ^no *p\udding#* / 512 10150 1 1 g 11 *((I))* ^didn`t have 'any s/\oup# / 512 10160 1 1 g 11 ^/\either# / 512 10170 1 1 s 20 (a, c and d laugh - - - ) / 512 10180 1 1 a 11 ^and there`s . !dr\ink on the 'table# / 512 10190 1 1 a 11 as ^w\/ell# - - . / 512 10200 1 1 a 11 ^s/o# - / 512 10210 1 1 a 11 ^M\aggy# + . / 512 10220 1 1 a 11 ((would)) ^y\/ou *'like 'some 'more#+* / 512 10230 1 1 f 11 +((would ^\/everyone 'like some 'more#))+ / 512 10240 1 1 d 12 *^[lei] . ^ladies* f\irst# . / 512 10250 1 1 e 11 [?@:m] ^y\es# / 512 10260 1 1 e 21 I ^think / 512 10270 1 1 s 20 (break in tape while people recharge plates) / 512 10280 1 2 c 10 ((don`t know what)) 'Maggy 'needs to take :n\/otes / 512 10280 1 1 c 10 'for# / 512 10290 1 1 d 20 ( - - - laughs) - - / 512 10300 1 1 a 11 so . [@:] ^what con'clusion did we :c\/ome 'to# . / 512 10310 1 2 a 11 a^bout !whether you were 'going to de_cide - - - / 512 10310 1 1 a 11 !what we should 'sing :wh\/en# - - / 512 10320 1 1 a 21 in the ^hope _of / 512 10330 1 1 ? 20 ((several sylls)) / 512 10340 1 1 s 20 (bottle cork pops) . / 512 10350 1 1 b 11 o^k/ay# / 512 10360 1 1 b 11 ^[?]in "!th\eory for 'this . n/ext 'one# - / 512 10370 1 1 b 11 ((^/\awful 'lot of . )) n/oise going 'on out there#/ 512 10380 1 1 b 11 ((what on ^earth was th\at one#)) - . / 512 10390 1 1 b 11 [@?m] - ^/\ah# / 512 10400 1 1 ?a 11 *^/\ooh#* / 512 10410 1 1 h 11 *((^that`ll* 'save the)) :t/ea'party# - - - / 512 10420 1 1 b 11 there ^isn`t an - 'any par'ticular r\eason# * . / 512 10430 1 2 b 11 ^why I 'shouldn`t de'cide* in ad'vance for the / 512 10430 1 1 b 11 'next - +:c\oncert#+ / 512 10440 1 1 a 11 *((^th\ank you 1 s/yll sir#))* / 512 10450 1 1 a 11 +^r\ight#+ - / 512 10460 1 1 ? 20 ( . coughs) / 512 10470 1 1(b 11 as ^long as I get 'hold of a 'copy of the :H\andel#/ 512 10480 1 1 b 11 so I ^know what`s \in it# - / 512 10490 1 1 a 11 "^w/ell# - / 512 10500 1 1 a 11 I ^m/ean# - - / 512 10510 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 10520 1 1 b 10 *((which I must !d\o#))* / 512 10530 1 1(a 11 ^are you *going to be* able to !d\/o 'that# / 512 10540 1 1 a 11 in the ^near f/uture# . / 512 10550 1 2 b 11 ^well I have a !meeting tomorrow 'morning in / 512 10550 1 1 b 11 {Golden Squ\are} :[?]in Nov\ello`s# - / 512 10560 1 1 a 11 ^in No:v\ello`s# / 512 10570 1 1 b 11 ^y\eah# / 512 10580 1 1 a 11 ^/\ah# / 512 10590 1 1 b 11 ^so it s\/eems - 'quite 'sensible# / 512 10600 1 1 b 11 if ^I ((were to)) 'buy me'self a !!sc\ore then# / 512 10610 1 1 b 11 ^w\ouldn`t it# / 512 10620 1 1 a 11 [@ ?i ?@ ?i] ^[w\o7]# / 512 10630 1 1 a 11 an [?]I ^mean a . ( . sigh) - :v\ocal 'score# / 512 10640 1 1 a 11 would ^be e!n\ough# / 512 10650 1 1 a 21 for *^you to !see ((what sort of))* / 512 10660 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* . / 512 10670 1 1 b 11 ^that`s a st\art# / 512 10680 1 1 a 11 ^y\es# / 512 10690 1 1 a 11 ^all . ((the)) !s\olos and /everything# / 512 10700 1 1 b 11 ^[\m]# - / 512 10710 1 1 b 11 it would be ^useful to h\ave one# . / 512 10720 1 1 b 11 ^I reckon to :try and :d\o that# - / 512 10730 1 1 a 11 and ^then _phone Br\ian w/ill you# - - / 512 10740 1 1 a 21 *((a^bout it))* / 512 10750 1 1 b 11 *^I will* !sp\eak to Brian# / 512 10760 1 1 a 11 ((yes)) - - - [@:m] - - ^s=o# - - . / 512 10770 1 1 a 11 be^fore the !first re:h\/earsal# - - . / 512 10780 1 1 a 11 ^on Sep!tember the 'twenty:f\ourth# . / 512 10790 1 1 a 11 ^/is it# - / 512 10800 1 1 ?c 11 ^[\m]# - - . / 512 10810 1 1 a 11 [@:m] - ^we should !have - - . a :sch\/edule# - . / 512 10820 1 1 a 11 ^with [@:] . !\all the d/etails 'on# / 512 10830 1 1 a 11 in^cl\/uding# - . / 512 10840 1 1 a 11 ^what !you`re 'going _to - be re:hearsing wh\en# . / 512 10850 1 1 a 11 ^y/es# / 512 10860 1 1 b 11 ^[/mhm]# / 512 10870 1 2 f 11 ^isn`t it 'actually with :that 'concert 'coming / 512 10870 1 1 f 11 :\/up 'though# - - / 512 10880 1 2 f 11 ^is !one 'not in :f\/act going to be 'getting / 512 10880 1 1 f 11 through the 'whole _lot 'every *w\eek# / 512 10890 1 1 f 11 ^\/any'way#* / 512 10900 1 1 b 11 *^I was just !w\/ondering* 'this# / 512 10910 1 1 b 11 ^[?]I . !((can)) get 'through a :l\/ot of it# / 512 10920 1 1 b 11 ^/\anyway# . *. / 512 10930 1 1 b 11 ((well)) ^m\/ost of it# / 512 10940 1 1 b 11 ^s\urely#* / 512 10950 1 1 f 11 *I ^mean !simply be:c\ause# / 512 10960 1 1 f 11 you know* ^one 'piece is 'orch\estral# / 512 10970 1 1 f 11 you ^don`t 'sing in :all the 'Handel :\any'way# - / 512 10980 1 1 f 11 and there`s ^only the :B\ach# / 512 10990 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 512 11000 1 2 a 12 ^if you`re 'going to 'do ^get 'through it 'all in / 512 11000 1 1 a 12 'each re:h\/earsal# / 512 11010 1 1 a 11 ^that`s f/\ine# . / 512 11020 1 1 a 11 I mean ^that "!couldn`t be :b\etter# / 512 11030 2 1 f 21 I mean ^when we`ve 'done / 512 11040 1 1 b 11 *it`s ^p\/ossible# / 512 11050 1 1 b 12 I ^wouldn`t ((several sylls)) . ((^y\eah#))* / 512 11030 1 2(f 11 *_things 'like "^when we did the 'Mo_zart !R\equiem/ 512 11030 1 1(f 11 or what*/ever it was# / 512 11060 1 2 f 11 we ^got through the 'whole +_lot+ 'every / 512 11060 1 1 f 11 reh/earsal# / 512 11070 2 1 f 21 **^no / 512 11080 1 1 ?e 11 +^y\es#+ / 512 11090 1 1 b 11 **[m] ^y\eah#** / 512 11070 1 1(f 11 !!pr\oblem#** / 512 11100 1 1 f 11 be^cause in *"!f\act#* . / 512 11110 1 1 b 11 *^[=m]#* / 512 11120 1 3(f 12 ^once you get 'into the 'choral ^once you get 'into/ 512 11120 1 2(f 12 the :choral _[?]or'chestral _plus !s\olos . / 512 11120 1 1(f 12 'reper'toire# - / 512 11130 1 2 f 11 ^you !sing for a !hell of a lot 'less of the / 512 11130 1 1 f 11 'actual per:f\/ormance 'time# - / 512 11140 1 2 f 11 than ^when you`re _doing . [?]a _concert "!l\/ike / 512 11140 1 1 f 11 we 'did in St 'Mark`s# / 512 11150 1 1 f 11 and and with the ^service as :w\ell# / 512 11160 1 1 f 11 where ^\actually# / 512 11170 1 1 f 11 if you "^\add up# / 512 11180 1 1 f 11 I mean we ^m\ust have 'had# / 512 11190 1 2 f 11 ^getting on for 'two and a half 'hours` :m\/usic to/ 512 11190 1 1 f 11 re'hearse for 'that _show# - / 512 11200 1 1 ? 11 ^[\m]# / 513 10 1 1 a 11 ^one of the !main con!c\erns# / 513 20 1 1 a 11 of [dhi:] . ^C V C !\/P# / 513 30 1 2 a 11 ^is that [dhi] !present :system of . :student / 513 30 1 1 a 11 fin=ancing# - / 513 40 1 1 a 11 ^\is denying# / 513 50 1 1 a 11 ^places to :people who - !c\ould# . / 513 60 1 1 a 12 and would de^velop - [@:] "^b\enefit# / 513 70 1 2 a 11 from ^coming !{[?]\into} the uni:versity !s\ystem# / 513 70 1 1 a 11 - - / 513 80 1 1 a 11 and ^[f]f\/inally# / 513 90 1 1 a 11 that . ^part [n7] !p\arcel# / 513 100 1 1 a 11 of the ^p\/aper# - / 513 110 1 1 a 11 ^would b\e# . / 513 120 1 1 a 11 to ^d\emonstrate# / 513 130 1 1 a 11 to ^G\/overnment# / 513 140 1 1 a 11 the in^\adequacy# / 513 150 1 2 a 11 of [dhi:] "^present :level of !{f\unding} - 'for / 513 150 1 1 a 11 'student :m\aintenance# - - - / 513 160 1 1 a 11 it ^s\eems# - / 513 170 1 1 a 11 [@] in^\evitable Ch/airman# / 513 180 1 1 a 11 that . ^any - a"!g\enda# / 513 190 1 1 a 11 ^of the Com:mittee of Vice :ch/ancellors# / 513 200 1 1 a 11 should ^have an !\item# / 513 210 1 1 a 11 on the ^freedom of !sp/eech# - / 513 220 1 1 a 11 [@] ^and of 'course we _did ag/ain# / 513 230 1 1 a 11 on ^this oc!c\asion# - - / 513 240 1 1 a 11 ^since . [?] our :pr\evious :m/eeting of 'course# / 513 250 1 1 a 11 [dhi:] - ^bill 'had 'been en:/acted# - / 513 260 1 1 a 11 ^/and# . / 513 270 1 1 a 11 ^one of the :{m\ain} . con!c\erns# / 513 280 1 1 a 11 of [dhi:] . ^C 'V 'C :=P# - / 513 290 1 1 a 11 ^was to 'make :s\ure# / 513 300 1 1 a 11 that ^{n\ow} that we "!have to "!f\/ace the 'law# -/ 513 310 1 1 a 11 we ^make good =use# . / 513 320 1 1 a 11 of [dhi] . ^reasonably "!pr\/acticable 'formula# / 513 330 1 1 a 11 which has been ^built into the :legisl\ation# - / 513 340 1 1 a 11 [@:] . [dhi:] . ^practical ef!f\/ect of 'that# - / 513 350 1 1 a 11 [@:] . I I`m ^s\ure# / 513 360 1 1 a 12 ^means that - we ^won`t !r\eally know# / 513 370 1 1 a 11 ^what the 'legis:lation - [@:] [?]is !t\/elling us#/ 513 380 1 1 a 11 un^til _there _have b=een# - / 513 390 1 2 a 11 a ^number of :legal . !{c\ases} 'to - [dis] / 513 390 1 1 a 11 de"!f\/ine# / 513 400 1 1 a 11 ^wh\at# . / 513 410 1 2 a 12 ^reasonable . ^reasonably :practical . will / 513 410 1 1 a 12 !m\/ean# / 513 420 1 1 a 11 ^in 'various c/ircum'stances# - / 513 430 1 1 a 11 but in the ^m\/ean'time [dhi]# / 513 440 1 2 a 11 com^mittee will be :trying to de'velop a :{c\ode} / 513 440 1 1 a 11 of . !pr\actice# - / 513 450 1 2 a 11 which will ^help [dhi] univ=ersities . [?]in the / 513 450 1 1 a 11 \interim# - / 513 460 1 1 a 11 un^f\/ortunately# / 513 470 1 1 a 11 [?]it ^will "!\also 'mean# / 513 480 1 1 a 11 that ^uni:v=ersities _will [@] be# / 513 490 1 2 a 11 o^bliged to :look . ((at)) :matters !{s\uch} as / 513 490 1 1 a 11 se:c\/urity# - / 513 500 1 1 a 11 be^cause it`s !quite 'clear from "!t\alking# / 513 510 1 1 a 11 to ^colleagues in !\/other uni'versities# - / 513 520 1 1 a 11 that . ^[?]in the "!m\/ain# / 513 530 1 1 a 11 their ^d\ifficulties# - / 513 540 1 2 a 11 in . in ^d\ealing with :fr\/eedom of 'speech / 513 540 1 1 a 11 'matters# / 513 550 1 1 a 11 ^has b/een# - / 513 560 1 1 a 11 [@:?] - . the re^s/ult# / 513 570 1 1 a 11 [?]of the ^\in'flux# / 513 580 1 1 a 11 of ^[?]outside :\influences# / 513 590 1 1 a 11 ^not 'staff _[?]or !st\udents# - . / 513 600 1 2 a 11 [?@] [?]and ^m\/ost uni'versities {^like our / 513 600 1 1 a 11 /own#}# / 513 610 1 1 a 11 have ^\/open 'campuses# . / 513 620 1 1 a 11 and this ^{d/oes} pres/ent# - / 513 630 1 1 a 11 [?@] a ^very - !major !d\ifficulty# - - / 513 640 1 2 a 11 [~] - ^on [dhi:] - - re!port . [?]of the General / 513 640 1 1 a 11 :P\/urposes Com'mittee# / 513 650 1 1 a 11 ^there was [ei] pre!l\/iminary dis'cussion# . / 513 660 1 1 a 11 on [dhi:] ^impli!c\ations# / 513 670 1 1 a 11 for ^univ/ersities# - / 513 680 1 1 a 11 ^of [dhi:] !G 'C 'S :\/E# - / 513 690 1 1 a 11 and the "^other ref/orms {^t/o#}# - / 513 700 1 2 a 11 ex^ami'nations at :sixteen - :seventeen and / 513 700 1 1 a 11 :eighteen "!pl\us# - - / 513 710 1 1 a 11 [dhi:] . ^general :v\iew# / 513 720 1 1 a 11 that was ^coming a"!cr\/oss from the uni'versities#/ 513 730 1 2 a 11 ^is that _they be:{l\ieve} that the / 513 730 1 1 a 11 :[?]impli"!c\ations# / 513 740 1 2 a 11 of these ^ch\anges in the :{^school examin:\/ation / 513 740 1 1 a 11 'system#}# / 513 750 1 1 a 11 will be ^far 'more ":r\/adical# / 513 760 1 2 a 11 than we [k] per^haps - - [?@:] [?@?] [?]ac:c\/epted/ 513 760 1 1 a 11 'so "f\ar# - / 513 770 1 1 a 11 [@] ^both in :terms of the !w\ay in which# / 513 780 1 1 a 12 ^we - [@?] se^l/ect 'students# - / 513 790 1 1 a 11 ^and in'deed 'the . the 'state of . prepar\ation# -/ 513 800 1 1 a 11 [@:] - . that they ^have 'when :they 'come t\o us# / 513 810 1 1 a 11 ^s/o# - / 513 820 1 2 a 12 it was ^just [@:] [t@] [@] ^really a[?] :putting / 513 820 1 1 a 12 down a !m\/arker# / 513 830 1 2 a 11 that the ^uni'versity`s :got a :lot of !th\inking ./ 513 830 1 1 a 11 to {^do a:bout th\at#}# - - / 513 840 1 1 a 11 [@?] ^we were "!t\old a'bout _[dhi]# - / 513 850 1 2 a 11 De^{v\elopment} . of [dhi] Re:lationship . with / 513 850 1 1 a 11 !\Industry . Com:m/ittee# / 513 860 1 1 a 11 ^chaired 'by - 'Mr "!Pr\/ior# - / 513 870 1 1 a 11 and it was ^cl\ear that# / 513 880 1 2 a 11 ^that comm:ittee - is :seeing . it_self in a :very / 513 880 1 1 a 11 . "!p\/olicy 'oriented 'role# - / 513 890 1 1 a 11 and the ^C 'V _C =P# / 513 900 1 2 a 11 is ^now !thinking in :terms of . !setting up a - / 513 900 1 1 a 11 !p\/arallel 'body# - / 513 910 1 2 a 11 [@:] to be con^cerned !{m\ore with} / 513 910 1 1 a 11 :implemen!t\ation# . / 513 920 1 1 a 11 in ^other w=ords# . / 513 930 1 1 a 11 ^pr\actical 'steps# / 513 940 1 1 a 11 which the uni^versities can !t\ake# - / 513 950 1 1 a 11 to ^follow up - !p\olicy _recommend'ations# / 513 960 1 1 a 11 from the ^Prior Com:m\ittee# - - / 513 970 1 1 a 11 as I`m ^sure everyone`s a:w/are# / 513 980 1 2 a 11 [dhi] . comm^ittee :e{l/ected} Sir 'Mark / 513 980 1 1 a 11 :R/ichmond# - / 513 990 1 1 a 11 to be their ^ch\/airman# / 513 1000 1 2 a 12 from ^[se@?] from Sep^tember 'nineteen . / 513 1000 1 1 a 12 'eighty!s\even# - - - / 513 1010 1 1 a 11 ^f\inally - [@:] :Ch/airman# / 513 1020 1 2 a 11 and ^this . may :be a . a :point . of par:ticular / 513 1020 1 1 a 11 con:{c\ern} to the "!C\/ouncil# - - / 513 1030 1 1 a 11 [~] the Comm^ittee were ad_v\ised . {^b\y#}# . / 513 1040 1 1 a 11 ^\/one 'vice'chancellor# - / 513 1050 1 1 a 11 about ^new legis:lation in . :Pakis!t\/an# / 513 1060 1 1 a 11 ^which . could !m/ake# . / 513 1070 1 2 a 11 the ^publi'cation of h[i@]:retical "!st\/atements# / 513 1070 1 1 a 11 - / 513 1080 1 1 a 11 a ^capital [i]:f\ence# - - / 513 1090 1 2 a 11 [@:] this has ap^parently al!ready 'caused / 513 1090 1 1 a 11 :s\/erious 'difficultie((s))# / 513 1100 1 2 a 11 I ^gather :two - 'students are al:ready in !prison / 513 1100 1 1 a 11 . "![?]in the c/ountry# - / 513 1110 1 2 a 11 [@:] as a re^sult of 'work - they sub'mitted as / 513 1110 1 1 a 11 :part of their :Ph :D !th\eses# - / 513 1120 1 1 a 11 [@:] ^=and# / 513 1130 1 1 a 11 the ^point was :r\/aised# / 513 1140 1 1 a 11 and I ^raise it !h\ere# / 513 1150 1 1 a 12 ^just . '[tu:] . [@?] a^g\ain# / 513 1160 1 1 a 11 ^put up a !m\arker# / 513 1170 1 2 a 11 that there ^is '[ei] . '[ei] :new !{h[\e6]zard} for/ 513 1170 1 1 a 11 [s] . for [@] !some of our st\udents# - / 513 1180 1 1 a 11 who ^{m\ight} . "![?]\easily _be mis:{^l\ed#}# - / 513 1190 1 1 a 11 [@?] by ^circum'stances !h\ere# / 513 1200 1 1 a 11 ^t=o# / 513 1210 1 1 a 11 ^wr\iting things# / 513 1220 1 1 a 11 that ^might 'cause . them "!d\ifficulty# - / 513 1230 1 1 a 11 [e:] in the ^f\uture# / 513 1240 1 1 a 11 [~] ^th\ank you 'Chairman# - - - / 513 1250 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 1260 1 1 b 11 ^th\ank you 'Principal# / 513 1270 1 1 b 12 I ^think - - be^f\ore 'I . _[?]ask# - / 513 1280 1 2 b 11 [?] [?] if ^anybody would :{l\ike} . to !qu\/estion/ 513 1280 1 1 b 11 'you - {^if 'they m/ay#}# - / 513 1290 1 1 b 11 [@?m] - ^could I "ask the _Academic R\egistrar# / 513 1300 1 1 b 11 ^on that !l\/ast 'point# / 513 1310 1 1 b 11 ^t/o# . / 513 1320 1 1 b 11 ^make 'sure that "!sch\ools - :{^\are#}# - / 513 1330 1 1 b 11 ^well a:{w\are} . of this - "!h\azard# / 513 1340 1 1 b 10 to their st/udents# . / 513 1350 1 1 b 11 *[@?m] . * ^th\ank you# / 513 1360 1 1 c 11 *^that`s for y\ou#* / 513 1370 1 1 d 11 **^Ch\/airman# . / 513 1380 1 1 d 11 [@?] [k] . ex^c\use 'me# / 513 1390 1 1 d 11 [k@d] could ^I \add that _[@?m]# - / 513 1400 1 2 d 11 [dhi:] ^relevant 'Aca'demic 'Council`s :standing / 513 1400 1 1 d 11 !s\/ub-com'mittees . :{^b\/e in'formed#}#** / 513 1410 1 1 s 20 **(rumbling of mike)** / 513 1420 1 1(d 11 in conn^\/ection# / 513 1430 1 1 d 11 with ^applic=ations _for# / 513 1440 1 1 d 11 res^triction of :access to th\eses# - - / 513 1450 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 1460 1 1 b 11 ^th\ank you {^Dr Cl\ayderman#}# - - - / 513 1470 1 1 b 11 ^/any# - / 513 1480 1 1 b 11 ad^ditional - :questions . p\oints# - . / 513 1490 1 1 b 11 ^n/o# - / 513 1500 1 1 s 20 *(rumbling of mike)* / 513 1510 2 1 e 21 *[kd] ^could I :just +[@m]+* / 513 1520 1 1 ? 20 +((1 syll))+ / 513 1510 1 1(e 11 a!{g\[ei]n} on that !l\/ast one# / 513 1530 1 1 e 11 ^{s\ay} that there`s in "!f\act# / 513 1540 1 2 e 12 an ^acad'[m7] a member of ^aca:demic !st\/aff in / 513 1540 1 1 e 12 'Paki'stan# / 513 1550 1 1 e 11 has ^actually been dis:m=issed# - - / 513 1560 1 1 e 11 ^fr[o6]m his :p\/ost# - - / 513 1570 1 1 e 11 ^due en!t\irely _to# / 513 1580 1 3 e 11 the ^s\ubject 'matter of a !thesis he 'wrote at / 513 1580 1 2 e 11 [@?] - ^pr\/obably the . / 513 1580 1 1 e 11 the ^same !principle ((he !r\aised))# / 513 1590 1 1 e 11 ^\at the 'C 'V 'C /P# / 513 1600 1 1 e 11 and the ^only r\eason# / 513 1610 1 2 e 11 that`s con^{str\ained} :anybody from :making any / 513 1610 1 1 e 11 !n\/oise is that# / 513 1620 1 1 e 11 he ^hasn`t 'actually :got out of :Paki!st\an yet# ./ 513 1630 1 1 e 11 he`s re^siding in the :British !\Embassy# - - / 513 1640 1 1 e 11 but ^I would ex!p=ect# - / 513 1650 1 1 e 11 both ^this c\ouncil and {^\other 'people#}# / 513 1660 1 1 e 11 to ^actually !take this 'matter :/up# - - / 513 1670 1 1 e 11 that [@:] - he he ^could theor:etically :f\ace# / 513 1680 1 1 e 11 ^sentence of :d\eath# - - - / 513 1690 1 1 s 20 *(rumbling of mike)* / 513 1700 1 1 a 11 *[?] ^Ch\/airman# / 513 1710 1 1 a 11 [w?] ^{\in} !t\alking# / 513 1720 1 2 a 11 I ^think that [@:m] - [@] Dr !Stephenson`s :made an/ 513 1720 1 1 a 11 im:portant !p\/oint here# / 513 1730 1 1 a 11 in* ^terms of :how 'we !d\eal with the 'matter# - / 513 1740 1 2 a 11 [@:m] - - I was ^thinking a'bout !general . / 513 1740 1 1 a 11 !c\irculars on the 'subject# - / 513 1750 1 1 a 11 [@:] I ^think we :need to :th/ink# . / 513 1760 1 1 a 11 ^rather !c\arefully a:{^b\out#}# - / 513 1770 1 1 a 11 the ^{wh\en} . [?]and the :h\ow# . / 513 1780 1 1 a 12 ^we[?] we ^go a!b\out that# - / 513 1790 1 1 a 11 [@:m] . it ^does /\also occ\/ur to 'me# / 513 1800 1 1 a 11 in [?]in . the ^c\/ourse of this dis'cussion# - / 513 1810 1 1 a 11 [@:] about ^whether 'we . !formally . ":kn\ow# / 513 1820 1 1 a 11 that ^this is the !c\ase# . / 513 1830 1 1 a 11 I ^mean we !kn\ow# / 513 1840 1 1 a 11 that it ^is a "!f\act# / 513 1850 1 1 a 11 but ^whether or :not . !f\/ormally# / 513 1860 1 1 a 12 ^[dhi:] - ^British g\overnment# / 513 1870 1 2 a 11 has ^been in!f\ormed a'bout the *. :{^((change / 513 1870 1 1 a 11 in))* !l\aw#}# / 513 1880 1 1 ?e 11 *^w\ell# / 513 1890 1 1 ?e 21 we`ll ^cert* / 513 1900 1 2(a 11 [@?] ^so[?] 'we !{w\ill} . !{cl\early} have to . / 513 1900 1 1(a 11 !tr\eat this# / 513 1910 1 1 a 11 with ^very 'great c\are# - / 513 1920 1 2 e 12 [w] ^we 'certainly are in - [@:m] com:mun . ^you / 513 1920 1 1 e 12 kn/ow# / 513 1930 1 1 e 11 the ^A 'U !\T`s in# / 513 1940 1 2 e 11 co^mmuni!{c\ation} with the !F\oreign 'Office / 513 1940 1 1 e 11 {^\/on 'this#}# - / 513 1950 1 1 e 11 and ^obviously they kn/ow# / 513 1960 1 2 e 11 ^since 'this [@:] - [@] :person is :actually [?] / 513 1960 1 1 e 11 [?] as I ^s\aid# / 513 1970 1 1 e 11 in the ^British !\Embassy# / 513 1980 1 1 e 11 as ^far as I :know at the !m\/oment# - / 513 1990 1 1 e 11 ^[ba7?] as !far as !h\/e`s con'cerned# / 513 2000 1 2 e 11 [@?] . we`ve "^actually had :motions with!{dr\awn} / 513 2000 1 1 e 11 from our a!g\enda 'paper# / 513 2010 1 1 e 11 because it`s ex^tremely !s\/ensitive# - / 513 2020 1 1 e 11 I ^would`ve !{th\ought} the :general !pr\inciple# / 513 2030 1 2 e 11 ^once [@?] - this :indi!v\idual is - [@:] / 513 2030 1 1 e 11 {^s\afe#}# / 513 2040 1 2 e 21 would [@:] . ^be 'one which we !m\ight 'want _to / 513 2040 1 1 e 21 [@:] - / 513 2050 1 2 e 11 would would . "^c\/ould be a 'matter of 'more \open/ 513 2050 1 1 e 11 de'bate# - / 513 2060 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 2070 1 2 b 12 I ^wonder _whether - - [?] is ^this '((all)) / 513 2070 1 1 b 12 :{[?]\actually} ![?]\on# / 513 2080 1 1 b 11 the ^C _V 'C :{\P`s} - con:tinuing - a!g\enda# . / 513 2090 1 1 b 11 because in the ^\/end# - - / 513 2100 1 2 b 11 ^[ei] . !represen:tation - [?] . 'from !th\at / 513 2100 1 1 b 11 'body# - / 513 2110 1 1 b 11 ^[?]\ought to _carry# / 513 2120 1 1 b 11 ^quite a lot of w\eight# - - - / 513 2130 1 1 b 11 or . ^shall 'we !s\ay# / 513 2140 1 1 b 11 ^carry !m\ore 'weight# - / 513 2150 1 1 b 11 than "^that from 'indi!v\/iduals# / 513 2160 1 1 b 11 ^[?]\or# . / 513 2170 1 2 b 11 ^[?]indi:vidual :organis!\/ations +{((^`n` / 513 2170 1 1 b 11 th/ings))#}#+ / 513 2180 1 1 s 20 +(rumbling of mike)+ / 513 2190 1 1 a 11 +well I ^th/ink#+ . / 513 2200 1 1 a 11 I ^th/ink# / 513 2210 1 1 a 11 ^Ch\airman# / 513 2220 1 2 a 11 we ^need to :take some !very *{c\areful} . / 513 2220 1 1 a 11 ":back'ground* :s\/oundings 'here# / 513 2230 1 1 ?b 11 *((^y\es# - / 513 2240 1 1 ?b 11 ^y=es#))* / 513 2250 1 1(a 11 the ^C 'V 'C :\P# / 513 2260 1 1 a 11 I ^{th\ink is} ":t\aking '[dhi:] . {^l\ine#}# / 513 2270 1 1 a 11 that ^I`ve !just - [i]:nn\ounced# . / 513 2280 1 1 a 11 that it that it ^might b/e# . / 513 2290 1 1 a 11 ^\/actually# - / 513 2300 1 1 a 11 [?m7] ^detri!m\ental 'to# . / 513 2310 1 1 a 11 ^indi_vidual !\interest# / 513 2320 1 1 a 11 to ^do !too 'much :too p\ublicly# - / 513 2330 1 1 a 11 ^at 'this st\age# . / 513 2340 1 1 a 21 I ^th\ink 'you can . / 513 2350 1 1 a 11 ^take it as :s\/ure# / 513 2360 1 2 a 11 that it ^won`t 'be - [@:] for:g\otten - {^this / 513 2360 1 1 a 11 \issue#}# - - - / 513 2370 1 1 s 20 (turning of pages) (rumbling of mike) / 513 2380 1 1 f 11 [@::m] - [?] [?] . the "^Pr\incipal# / 513 2390 1 2 f 11 re^ferred {t\o} '[@:m] - - the pro:vision in the / 513 2390 1 1 f 11 :Edu_c\ation 'Act# / 513 2400 1 1 f 11 a^bout . !freedom of !sp\eech# / 513 2410 1 2 f 11 which ^casts [@:] an :obli:gation on !\all / 513 2410 1 1 f 11 uni:{^versities and !c\olleges#}# / 513 2420 1 2 f 11 to pro"^duce . their :\own - . :{^code of / 513 2420 1 1 f 11 :pr\/actice#}# . / 513 2430 1 2 f 11 [?:] [?] [?] [@:m] ^is !he {\actually} adv=ising / 513 2430 1 1 f 11 _us# / 513 2440 1 1 f 11 that that ^we 'should a:w=ait# - / 513 2450 1 2 f 11 [dh] [dhi:] [@m] . ^code of _practice _drawn up / 513 2450 1 1 f 11 !b\y the 'C 'V 'C 'P# - - - / 513 2460 1 1 a 11 ^th\ank you 'General# / 513 2470 1 1 a 11 ^w\ell# / 513 2480 1 1 a 11 I ^must de!{cl\are} an :\interest /first# / 513 2490 1 4 a 11 that ^I`m !{\on} [dhi:] - [@?] :standing / 513 2490 1 3 a 11 :sub-co:mmittee 'who`s !actually :drawing !\up this/ 513 2490 1 2 a 11 - [@:] {^code of :c\ond} :[@:] . [@:] / 513 2490 1 1 a 11 :{^pr\/actice#}# / 513 2500 1 1 a 11 ^s\/o# / 513 2510 1 1 a 11 ^I su:ppose I :m\ay# - / 513 2520 1 1 a 11 ^may have a !vested :\/interest in it# - / 513 2530 1 1 a 11 [@::] "^\on the 'whole# / 513 2540 1 2 a 11 I ^think it !m\/ight be _worth_while to / 513 2540 1 1 a 11 "^just to :h\/ear 'what# / 513 2550 1 2 a 11 the ^C "V 'C :P [?]is _s\aying :n/ationally / 513 2550 1 1 a 11 be_{^fore _we - we :go a:h/ead#}# / 513 2560 1 1 a 11 but [?]I ^d\on`t 'think# / 513 2570 1 1 a 12 there`s ^{\any} . [?] "^[?]over:/all# / 513 2580 1 1 a 11 ^[?]over !r\iding im'perative to :w/ait# - - / 513 2590 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike; turning of pages) / 513 2600 1 1 f 11 I ^only :\/ask# / 513 2610 1 2 f 11 because ^{sch\ools} of the :uni!v\ersity will / 513 2610 1 1 f 11 !{^cl\early#}# / 513 2620 1 2 f 11 [?] [?] ^[?]either :feel they must [ged] !on with / 513 2620 1 1 f 11 this !qu\/ickly# / 513 2630 1 1 f 11 or . [?]or [?]or ^should be ad:v\ised to a":w=ait# / 513 2640 1 2 f 11 [@?m] ^those tho :{th\ose} [@?m] de:liber!\ations# / 513 2640 1 1 f 11 - - - / 513 2650 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 2660 1 1 b 11 ^s\o# / 513 2670 1 1 b 11 ^would the ad!vice b\e - :{^pr\incipal#}# / 513 2680 1 1 b 11 that ^[?]/at the 'moment# / 513 2690 1 1 b 11 that . ^we should 'be !th\inking a'bout it# - - / 513 2700 1 1 b 11 [?m] - [?] [?o?] in ^r\ather# . / 513 2710 1 1 b 11 [?]on the ^l=ines we _have# - / 513 2720 1 1 b 11 in ^m\/ost 'cases th\ought# . / 513 2730 1 1 b 11 in ^p\arallel with the :C V _C _=P# / 513 2740 1 1 b 11 ^on the !various m\atters# / 513 2750 1 1 b 11 on ^which 'they`ve !\issued# / 513 2760 1 1 b 11 ^codes of :pr\actice :{^up to _n\ow#}# / 513 2770 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 2780 1 1 a 11 ^yes Ch/airman# / 513 2790 1 1 a 11 that ^is corr\ect# / 513 2800 1 1 a 11 and the[?] the Co^llegiate C\ouncil# . / 513 2810 1 2 a 12 has ^al[?] . ^has al'ready "taken that - on b\oard#/ 513 2810 1 1 a 12 - - - / 513 2820 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) . / 513 2830 1 1 b 11 ^r\ight# - / 513 2840 1 1 b 11 well ^thank y/\ou 'then# - / 513 2850 1 1 b 11 per^haps we can :{m\ove} on to 'item !f\/ive# / 513 2860 1 2 b 11 ^which 'I - !!don`t 'think . 'will . :take us / 513 2860 1 1 b 11 :l/ong# . / 513 2870 1 1 b 11 [@?] - - I ^th\ink . by :{^n\ow#}# - / 513 2880 1 2 b 11 ^we are !possibly the :{l\ast} [f:] !formal b\ody# / 513 2880 1 1 b 11 - / 513 2890 1 1 b 11 [@?] to ^h\ave 'this# . / 513 2900 1 1 b 11 ^very !happy re!{p\ort} . _made !t\/o us# - / 513 2910 1 1 b 11 ^that '[dhi:] - - !f\/ormal 'problems# / 513 2920 1 1 b 11 be^tw\een# - . / 513 2930 1 1 b 11 ^B=arts# - / 513 2940 1 1 b 11 ^Queen E:l\izabeth# / 513 2950 1 1 b 11 ^{Qu\een} . :M\/ary# / 513 2960 1 1 b 11 and the ^['la7nd@?] - :H\/ospital# - . / 513 2970 1 1 b 11 ^have - [@:] :been . s/olved# / 513 2980 1 1 b 11 and ^n\ow# - . / 513 2990 1 1 b 11 [?] it is a ^matter 'of ":getting d\own# - / 513 3000 1 1 b 11 a ^lot of !d\etailed 'work# . / 513 3010 1 2 b 11 [tu:] ^make s=ure that _[dhi:] . / 513 3010 1 1 b 11 _[@?] - ^wh/at is it 'now# / 513 3020 1 2 b 11 [dhi?] . ^{\I [@m]} "!haven`t :got the ![na?] the / 513 3020 1 1 b 11 !!n\ame 'right# / 513 3030 1 2 b 11 the ^City in :{\East} :L\ondon * - / 513 3030 1 1 b 11 {Con^fede:r\/ation#}# - / 513 3040 1 1 s 20 *(woman`s voice whispering)* / 513 3050 1 1(b 11 will ^actually .* :come to fru\ition# - . / 513 3060 1 1 b 11 and I ^th\ink that# - - / 513 3070 1 1 b 11 ^{w\e} !t\oo# / 513 3080 1 1 b 11 should con^gratulate :all 'those con:c/erned# - - / 513 3090 1 1 b 11 Pro^fessor !D\iplock# / 513 3100 1 1 b 11 is ^not "!actually :h\/ere at the 'moment# / 513 3110 1 1 b 11 but - the ^D=ean# - . / 513 3120 1 1 b 11 ^Chairman of :W =O M A C# - - / 513 3130 1 1 b 11 ^c=ollege repre_sentatives# . / 513 3140 1 1 b 11 the ^Pr\incipal# / 513 3150 1 1 b 11 I`m ^{qu\ite} :s\/ure# - / 513 3160 1 1 b 11 [@:m] and . [@] . a ^whole lot of :\other 'people# / 513 3170 1 1 b 11 who ^worked 'very :h\/ard# . / 513 3180 1 1 b 11 [@?] in the "^back "end of the !s\ummer# - - - / 513 3190 1 1 b 11 and ^we 'are :\asked# - . / 513 3200 1 1 b 11 I ^th\ink 'to# . / 513 3210 1 1 b 11 en^d\orse# - / 513 3220 1 1 b 11 [@?] [dhi:] ^J 'P _C`s :v\/iew# / 513 3230 1 2 b 11 ^which you will !{f\ind} on 'page !tw\o - {^n\ear / 513 3230 1 1 b 11 the 'bottom#}# - / 513 3240 1 1 b 11 ^where _they _r/\eco'mmend# / 513 3250 1 1 b 11 to the ^C\ourt and :{^S\enate#}# / 513 3260 1 1 b 11 ^that "!s\ubject# / 513 3270 1 1 b 11 to the ^v=iews# / 513 3280 1 1 b 11 of the ^Aca'demic _{C\ouncil} . _et c\etera# - - / 513 3290 1 1 b 11 ^s\o# / 513 3300 1 1 b 11 ^[?]if we :{m\ay} en:d\orse their# - - / 513 3310 1 1 b 11 [@?] ^recommen:d/ation# - - - / 513 3320 1 1 s 20 (rustling of paper) / 513 3330 1 1(b 11 I think ^that would _be a :good th\ing# - - / 513 3340 1 1 ? 11 ((^w=e _may#)) / 513 3350 1 1 b 11 ^th\ank 'you# - - . / 513 3360 1 1 b 11 ^n\ow# . / 513 3370 1 1 b 11 ^item s\ix# / 513 3380 1 1 b 11 ^[/@:m]# / 513 3390 1 1 b 11 re^view of :\/Arts# / 513 3400 1 1 b 11 for ^which you :have :Document \A !s/ix# - / 513 3410 1 1 b 11 ^and - - 'where . 'I [w?] re!{f\er 'you} :\/also# -/ 513 3420 1 1 b 11 ^to . '[dhi:] - - !m=inutes# . / 513 3430 1 1 b 11 ^one 'six :s\even# / 513 3440 1 1 b 11 to ^one six !n\/ine# . / 513 3450 1 2 b 12 of the ^A 'C :E 'C [@::m] - - - per^haps 'I could / 513 3450 1 1 b 12 :say a :{f\ew 'words} - . \/on this 'matter# . / 513 3460 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^first of =all# - / 513 3470 1 1 b 11 in a ^s\ense# - . / 513 3480 1 1 b 11 ^as [t\u:] '[dhi:] . !st\atus# - / 513 3490 1 2 b 11 if ^that`s the 'right {w=ord} . '[?]of _[?]of 'this/ 513 3490 1 1 b 11 initiat\ive# - / 513 3500 1 1 b 11 ^[/@:m]# . / 513 3510 1 1 b 11 ^in the :p\/ast# - / 513 3520 1 2 b 11 [dhi:?] ^subject :area re!v\iews [k@m?] . / 513 3520 1 1 b 11 re^v\iew co'mmittees and s/o on# / 513 3530 1 1 b 11 were co"^{mm\issioned} by the :J 'P :\/C# . / 513 3540 1 2 b 11 and - they - "^{n\ormally} :had an :ex'ternal - / 513 3540 1 1 b 11 !person . as ch\airman# - / 513 3550 1 1 b 11 ^{h\ere} we _have - an !\/internal . re'view# - / 513 3560 1 1 b 11 which has been ^started =up# / 513 3570 1 1 b 11 ^on the in!\itiative . _of# . / 513 3580 1 1 b 11 Pro^fessors !{Bl\ack'well} and :L/inley# - - / 513 3590 1 1 b 11 [?] ^talking . '[tu:] the :D\eans {of ^=Arts#}# . / 513 3600 1 1 b 11 ^in the :sch\ools# - . / 513 3610 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - - ^/I th\ink# - / 513 3620 1 2 b 11 that ^this . 'is [ei] !very _v\aluable - / 513 3620 1 1 b 11 {in^\itiative#}# - / 513 3630 1 2 b 11 I ^{th\ink} that :it . 'is - - / 513 3630 1 1 b 11 ^I would !go so !far as to :s=ay# / 513 3640 1 1 b 11 an e"^ss\/ential 'thing# . / 513 3650 1 1 b 12 to be ^ca[?] to be ^carried /out# / 513 3660 1 1 b 11 because ^if _we d\on`t# - / 513 3670 1 1 b 11 ^{f\ind out} for :{\our}!s\/elves# / 513 3680 1 1 b 11 ^how '[?]arts /are# . / 513 3690 1 1 b 11 ^in the 'Uni:v=ersity# . / 513 3700 1 1 b 11 how ^healthy they =are# - / 513 3710 1 1 b 11 h ^how . :f=ar# / 513 3720 1 1 b 11 [?]are they ^under ":pressure - and !s\/o 'on# - / 513 3730 1 1 b 11 then ^s\omebody# . / 513 3740 1 1 b 11 ^outs/ide# - / 513 3750 1 1 b 11 the ^wicked \uncle# - / 513 3760 1 1 b 11 the ^U 'G !\/C# / 513 3770 1 1 b 11 is ^going '[tu:] !{st\art} !d\oing it# - / 513 3780 1 1 b 11 ^p\iece'meal# - / 513 3790 1 2 b 11 [@?] and ^they 'are :going '[tu:] - [??]!reach / 513 3790 1 1 b 11 de!c\/isions# - / 513 3800 1 1 b 11 on ^bases that 'we - "!cann\ot . re:f/ute# - / 513 3810 1 2 b 11 be^cause 'we will :not have any _{\evidence} of / 513 3810 1 1 b 11 'our :\/own# / 513 3820 1 2 b 11 ^that per"!{h\aps} is a ":n\egative 'reason . 'for / 513 3820 1 1 b 11 . d/oing this# - / 513 3830 1 1 b 11 ^p\/ositively# / 513 3840 1 1 b 11 I ^think it is a !h\ealthy 'thing# / 513 3850 1 1 b 11 that ^we should !kn\/ow 'how 'we 'stand# - - / 513 3860 1 1 b 11 ^so that we !kn\ow# - / 513 3870 1 1 b 11 ^where for ex\ample# . / 513 3880 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - ^arts de:partments have "!s\uffered over / 513 3880 1 1 b 11 the :last _few y/ears# - . / 513 3890 1 1 b 11 ^wh\ere# . / 513 3900 1 1 b 11 they are ^hoping to g\/o# - - / 513 3910 1 1 b 11 and ^what re:sources - 'would be :n=eeded# - / 513 3920 1 1 b 11 if ^they _are to !g\o 'there# . / 513 3930 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^s\o# / 513 3940 1 1 b 11 ^/\I 'think# - / 513 3950 1 1 b 12 that ^this we ^should . 'actua_lly - en:d=orse# . / 513 3960 1 1 b 11 ^this ac!t\ivity# - / 513 3970 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - I ^{th\ink} at :having !s\/aid 'that . / 513 3970 1 1 b 11 'one# - - / 513 3980 1 1 b 11 ^[?]I had !{b\etter} :s\/ay# / 513 3990 1 1 b 11 that that ^at the Co!ll\/egiate 'Council# / 513 4000 1 1 b 11 it ^wasn`t 'actually re!c\eived ec":st/atically# - / 513 4010 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - - ^n\/ot for 'minuting I 'think# / 513 4020 1 1 b 11 that ^that was !p\artly be'cause# / 513 4030 1 2 b 11 that ^one or :{tw\o} [?]of [dhi:] . "heads of / 513 4030 1 1 b 11 :c\/olleges 'there# / 513 4040 1 1 b 11 ^hadn`t :{\/actually} "!read the !p\apers# / 513 4050 1 1 b 11 [@:m] ^and _[??] _[dhi?] - !f\eeling 'was# / 513 4060 1 2 b 11 that it was ^going 'on and in"!fringing the / 513 4060 1 1 b 11 pre:rogatives - [?o?]of !sch\/ools# - / 513 4070 1 1 b 11 ^[/@:m]# . / 513 4080 1 1 b 11 ^whereas in ":f\act# . / 513 4090 1 2 b 12 ^\any 'rec . ^recommen!dations that !come out of / 513 4090 1 1 b 12 this :\/excercise# / 513 4100 1 1 b 11 are ^[?]\obviously# - / 513 4110 1 1 b 11 ^[haef] to _have a :school \in'put# - / 513 4120 1 1 b 11 [?@?] ^/and# / 513 4130 1 1 b 11 it ^is 'actually ":built in al!r\/eady# / 513 4140 1 1 b 11 be^cause the d\eans are :th/ere# - / 513 4150 1 1 b 12 ^and [@?] - I ^tr\ust# / 513 4160 1 2 b 11 that ^deans of :sch/ools 'talk to their h\eads of / 513 4160 1 1 b 11 'schools# - - / 513 4170 1 1 b 11 ^[\@:m]# - - - / 513 4180 1 1 b 11 ^s=o# - - / 513 4190 1 1 b 11 "^this . is {m\y} !f\/eeling . a'bout it# / 513 4200 1 2 b 11 that . it is "^naturally _going to a'rouse - / 513 4200 1 1 b 11 :w\/orries# . / 513 4210 1 2 b 11 [@?] - in a^mongst . par!ticularly . I would / 513 4210 1 1 b 11 :gu/ess# / 513 4220 1 2 b 11 ^{members . of :st\aff} in :smallish / 513 4220 1 1 b 11 de:p\/artments# . / 513 4230 1 1 b 11 as to ^whether it`s a :thr/eat# - / 513 4240 1 2 b 11 [?] it . [sh] "^{sh\ould not} :be _constr\ued . in / 513 4240 1 1 b 11 that w/ay {in ^m/y 'view#}# - / 513 4250 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - that - - pro^{v\ided} that the :d\ocument# / 513 4250 1 1 b 11 - / 513 4260 1 1 b 11 is . ^used - with!in . 'this :univ/ersity# - - / 513 4270 1 1 b 11 in a ^proper f\ashion# - / 513 4280 1 1 b 11 and is ^not a{ll\owed} . to be "!f\ired 'out# / 513 4290 1 2 b 12 ^as . an ^answer to :somebody`s :{pr\ayer} from / 513 4290 1 1 b 12 'out!s\/ide# / 513 4300 1 1 b 11 with^out a 'lot of th\ought# / 513 4310 1 1 b 11 [@?] in ^=other _words# / 513 4320 1 1 b 11 it is "^{n\ot} !m\/is'used# - / 513 4330 1 2 b 11 [@?] I ^don`t 'see that [i?] - 'will [@] / 513 4330 1 1 b 11 {pre:s\ent} - :any thr\eats# . / 513 4340 1 1 b 11 to a ^recommen'dation from th\ese# - / 513 4350 1 2 b 11 and I think ^that`s the _only :((['kaevi@?])) / 513 4350 1 1 b 11 !p\/ersonally# / 513 4360 1 1 b 11 ^I would :like to !p\ut on it# / 513 4370 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^could _I - 'ask Prof:essor !Bl\ack'well# / 513 4380 1 1 b 21 ^whether he would :l\ike 'to - / 513 4390 1 1 s 20 (banging on mike, rumbling) / 513 4400 1 1 g 11 [@:] the re^view is in :pr\/ogress# - / 513 4410 1 2 g 11 we ^have [@] !twentyfour :{s\ubject} :area / 513 4410 1 1 g 11 co!mm\ittees# - / 513 4420 1 1 g 11 ^covering _[dhi:] [@] . :/arts# - / 513 4430 1 1 g 11 ^in '[dhi:] . :univ\ersity# - / 513 4440 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^each comm=ittee# / 513 4450 1 1 g 11 con^sisting [??]=of# / 513 4460 1 1 g 11 ^heads of 'de:p\artments# - / 513 4470 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^in . 'that !s\/ubject 'area# - / 513 4480 1 1 g 11 ^and '[?]at '[dhi:] [@?] . su!gg\estion# / 513 4490 1 1 g 11 of the ex^ecutive co'mmittee of this !C\/ouncil# - / 513 4500 1 2 g 11 the ^{Ch\airman} of of the [b] :Board of / 513 4500 1 1 g 11 !St\/udies# - / 513 4510 1 1 g 11 [@::m] - - the ^D\/ean`s Co'mmittee# / 513 4520 1 1 g 11 which is ^over!s\eeing# . / 513 4530 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^this oper/ation# / 513 4540 1 1 g 11 con^sists 'of . !Deans of \Arts# - - / 513 4550 1 2 g 11 [a:] ^in [@] :sch\/ools . {^of the 'uni:v/ersity#}#/ 513 4550 1 1 g 11 - / 513 4560 1 1 g 11 ^or !{[?]\other _[?]arts} repre:s\entatives# - / 513 4570 1 1 g 11 where there`s ^not a !s\eparate 'faculty# - - - / 513 4580 1 1 g 11 ^we `ave :/asked# / 513 4590 1 1 g 11 ^[dhi:] '[@?] - !m\/embers of that com'mittee# - . / 513 4600 1 1 g 11 ^Alma Linley and /I# - / 513 4610 1 1 g 11 ^[t\u:]# - / 513 4620 1 1 g 11 [@] "^make s=ure# / 513 4630 1 2 g 11 that "^[?]all 'members _[?]of their !\/arts / 513 4630 1 1 g 11 'faculty# / 513 4640 1 1 g 11 are a^{w/are} '[?]of the rev/iew# - . / 513 4650 1 1 g 11 ^and 'can . [@?] :m/ake# / 513 4660 1 1 g 11 [@] ^any sug:gestions they :l\ike# - - / 513 4670 1 2 g 11 [@:m] - ^indi:vidual !m\embers 'of the _Arts / 513 4670 1 1 g 11 F/aculty# / 513 4680 1 1 g 11 can ^\either# - - . / 513 4690 1 2 g 11 can ^make their sug:{g/estions} 'through the / 513 4690 1 1 g 11 'de:part_mental com:m/ittee# / 513 4700 1 1 g 11 or the ^[?]Arts F\/aculty# / 513 4710 1 1 g 11 of the ^indi:vidual :sch/ool# / 513 4720 2 1 g 21 ^or 'through the 'Board *of ((several sylls))* / 513 4730 1 1 s 20 *(humming)* / 513 4720 1 1(g 11 ^and that _if 'we :d\/o 'so# - . / 513 4740 1 2 g 11 [@] ^we`ve been en!s\ured that _[@?m] - - _[@:]# - / 513 4740 1 1 g 11 - / 513 4750 1 1 g 11 [???] our ^own . [?:] con!cl\/usions# . / 513 4760 1 1 g 11 will ^be [@] - ac!cepted by :U 'G !\C# - - - / 513 4770 1 1 g 11 [@:m] - - ^as has been !s\aid# . / 513 4780 1 1 g 11 ^this comm:/ittee# - / 513 4790 1 1 g 11 [@?] ^d\ean's comm:/ittee# / 513 4800 1 1 g 11 has ^only an ad!v\/isory 'function# / 513 4810 1 1 g 11 [@?] and [@:m] [dh@?] ^any recommen!d\ations# / 513 4820 1 1 g 11 that [i?] - ^may !m\/ake# - / 513 4830 1 2 g 12 will ^go '[tu:] [@:m] - - - [a7:] the ^various . / 513 4830 1 1 g 12 com!m\ittees of the uni:v/ersity# / 513 4840 1 2 g 11 in^cluding [@:] the :{=Academic _Council} . :and / 513 4840 1 1 g 11 _its [@:] . !s\ub . com'mittees# - - - / 513 4850 1 1 g 11 ^th\ank . 'you# / 513 4860 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 4870 1 1 b 11 ^(([\ngk] 'you))# / 513 4880 1 1 b 10 Prof\essor L\inley# . / 513 4890 1 1 b 11 [w?] . would ^y/ou 'like to {^/add 'anything#}# - / 513 4900 1 2 h 11 I . ^don`t !think 'I 'n\eed 'add 'anything th/ank / 513 4900 1 1 h 11 _you . 'Chairman# / 513 4910 1 1 h 11 ^that [@?] - !sums it \up# / 513 4920 1 1 h 11 I ^th/ink# - - - / 513 4930 1 1 s 20 (rustling of papers, rumbling of mike) / 513 4940 1 1 b 11 Pro^fessor B\owie# - - / 513 4950 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike, slapping noises) / 513 4960 1 2 j 12 ^purely . ^purely on a . :matter of :infor!m\ation / 513 4960 1 1 j 12 Ch/airman# - / 513 4970 1 1 j 11 ^thr\ough 'you# / 513 4980 1 1 j 11 ^may 'I '=ask of Prof:essor :Bl\ackwell# / 513 4990 1 1 j 11 ^ge\ography# / 513 5000 1 1 j 11 is ^all _things to :all _m\en# / 513 5010 1 1 j 11 it ^sits in !both f\aculties# / 513 5020 1 1 j 11 is ^that 'being in:v/estigated# - - . / 513 5030 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 5040 1 1 g 11 ^no it !\isn`t# / 513 5050 1 2 g 10 [@:m] - - - [?a7:] - - [a7pl] - - - there are a / 513 5050 1 1 g 10 ^n\umber 'of _[@?m] - :{^s\/ubject 'areas#}# . / 513 5060 1 1 g 11 [@?] that - ^in par!t\icular - :{^sch\/ools#}# . / 513 5070 1 1 g 11 are ^counted within an :arts f\aculty# - / 513 5080 1 2 g 12 [@:] and ^other 'schools may be :[ka7?d] . ^counted/ 513 5080 1 1 g 12 in [@] . a :sc/ience 'faculty# / 513 5090 1 1 g 11 or a "^s\/ocial science 'faculty# / 513 5100 1 1 g 11 we de^cided to :"f\ollow# / 513 5110 1 1 g 11 [?] in ^this '[@:] :\instance# / 513 5120 1 2 g 11 be^[ko6s] there is !no uni!{f\ormity} :\anyway / 513 5120 1 1 g 11 with:{^in the univ!\ersity#}# / 513 5130 1 1 g 11 [@:] [dhi:] ^defin'ition [?:] 'of :s\ubjects# / 513 5140 1 1 g 11 ac^cording '[tu:] the[?] . :\U G '/C# / 513 5150 1 1 g 11 and ^we ex!cl\uded there'fore# - - / 513 5160 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^ge\ogra'phy# - / 513 5170 1 1 g 11 ^[?]and '[?]also :[?]anthro"p\ology# / 513 5180 1 1 g 11 which ^is [@:] - in :some [@m] - [@:] c\olleges# . / 513 5190 1 1 g 11 ^part of the :arts !f\aculty# - - - / 513 5200 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 5210 1 1 b 11 Mr ^W\eatherby# / 513 5220 1 1 b 21 ((you . ^will you)) / 513 5230 1 1 k 11 Mr ^Ch\airman# / 513 5240 1 1 k 11 you ^s\aid that [@m]# / 513 5250 1 1 k 11 [dhi:] ^document :wasn`t ec":statically rec/eived# / 513 5260 1 1 k 11 ^at Collegiate !C\/ouncil# - / 513 5270 1 1 k 11 I ^think it`s :f\air {^to :s\ay#}# / 513 5280 1 1 k 11 that the ^ecstasy m/\eter# / 513 5290 1 1 k 11 ^wasn`t 'actually - at its !!h\ighest# / 513 5300 1 2 k 11 at the^ology 'arts and 'music 'standing / 513 5300 1 1 k 11 'sub-com'mittee !\/either# - / 513 5310 1 2 k 11 [@:m] . ^not be'cause :members had :{f\ailed to / 513 5310 1 1 k 11 'read} the !p\/apers# / 513 5320 1 2 k 11 but I ^think be'cause they "!h\ad 'read the / 513 5320 1 1 k 11 'papers#* - / 513 5330 1 1 s 20 *(chuckles all round)* / 513 5340 1 2(k 11 and* . [@:m] - ^some of '[dhi:] sug:gested _terms / 513 5340 1 1(k 11 of _r\/eference 'were# - / 513 5350 1 1 k 12 [@:m] - - ^s\een as - - p`raps ^n\ot# / 513 5360 1 1 k 11 [@:] as con^structive as they !m\/ight 'be# - / 513 5370 1 1 k 11 ^n\ow[?]# . / 513 5380 1 2 k 11 I was ^very gl\ad to 'hear Prof_essor 'Blackwell / 513 5380 1 1 k 11 :{^s\ay that [@m]#}# - / 513 5390 1 2 k 11 ^all !m\embers of of the 'Faculty of _Arts - in the/ 513 5390 1 1 k 11 Uni_versity# / 513 5400 1 1 k 11 would be in^cl\uded in this :\/exercise# - / 513 5410 1 1 k 11 ^w\as# . / 513 5420 1 2 k 11 ^one of the 'things that . _[@m] !s\eemed to / 513 5420 1 1 k 11 e'merge# - / 513 5430 1 1 k 11 [?@] . from the ^p/apers# . / 513 5440 1 2 k 11 ^was that the 'exercise would :be con:f\ined '[tu:]/ 513 5440 1 1 k 11 [@?m]# - / 513 5450 1 1 k 11 ^such ex!alted :b\eings _[@z] [@m]# - / 513 5460 1 1 k 11 ^deans and :heads of . de!!p\artments# / 513 5470 1 1 k 11 ^y\ou 'know like# - / 513 5480 1 1 k 11 [@:m] - - [@:] - . ^recognised :t\/eachers# / 513 5490 1 1 k 11 very ^r\ightly# - / 513 5500 1 1 k 12 [@] ^[me] ^made the p/oint# - / 513 5510 1 1 k 11 [@:m] - that [@] . ^they !t\oo# . / 513 5520 1 1 k 11 [@:] had a ^st/ake in 'this# / 513 5530 1 1 k 11 and per^haps . rather !m\/ore of a 'stake# / 513 5540 1 2 k 11 ^given that 'they were :likely on :average to / 513 5540 1 1 k 11 ":have a _longer t/ime in# - / 513 5550 1 1 k 11 ^left [tu:] them in :this _university :s\ervice# . / 513 5560 1 1 k 12 so ^I was ^I was !v\ery 'glad# / 513 5570 1 1 k 11 that Prof^essor !Bl\/ackwell# / 513 5580 1 1 k 11 ^m\/ade that 'point# - / 513 5590 1 1 k 11 ^[/@:m]# . / 513 5600 1 1 k 11 ^s\ome of the 'terms of 'reference# - - / 513 5610 1 1 k 22 ^((you ^kn/ow are)) / 513 5620 1 1 k 11 I ^think . [?]are ex!tr\/emely 'helpful# / 513 5630 1 1 k 11 ex^tr\/emely con'structive# - / 513 5640 1 1 k 11 [@:] par^ticularly the /ones# . / 513 5650 1 1 k 11 con^c/erned# / 513 5660 1 1 k 11 with ^str\/engthening# - / 513 5670 1 1 k 11 [@] . ^f\ederal# - / 513 5680 1 1 k 11 ac^tivities in this !\area# . / 513 5690 1 1 k 11 be^c=ause# / 513 5700 1 1 k 11 of ^c/ourse# / 513 5710 1 1 k 11 the ^arts . 'are . un!\iquely 'well 'placed# / 513 5720 1 1 k 11 to ex^ploit _[dhi:] . !['kl\ekte6v] 'strength# / 513 5730 1 1 k 11 of the ^uni!v\ersity# - - / 513 5740 1 1 k 11 [?] - - I ^th\ink it would 'be# - - / 513 5750 1 1 k 11 ^f\/oolish '[tu]# - / 513 5760 1 1 k 11 ^try and dis:gu/ise the 'fact# / 513 5770 1 1 k 11 ^that 'there - !\is un'ease# . / 513 5780 1 1 k 11 [@?] a^bout this comm/ittee# / 513 5790 1 1 k 11 [??] among ^m\any members of the 'Faculty of /Arts#/ 513 5800 1 1 k 11 ^/and# / 513 5810 1 1 k 11 I ^th\ink this un'ease# / 513 5820 1 1 k 11 ^=is# . / 513 5830 1 1 k 11 ^[?]is p\artly# - / 513 5840 1 1 k 11 [@?] the re^sult of the w/ay# . / 513 5850 1 1 k 11 that the re^view . 'was - in!\itially# / 513 5860 1 1 k 11 pre^sented in [n7] in'formal disc\ussions# - / 513 5870 1 2 k 11 [@:] - - I`m ^glad 'also to :see that !th\at`s / 513 5870 1 1 k 11 being taken _care 'of# / 513 5880 1 2 k 11 and that [@m] - . ^[dhi:] . Committee is likely to / 513 5880 1 1 k 11 proc/eed# - / 513 5890 1 1 k 11 *^p`raps with :more circum!!sp\/ections#* - / 513 5900 1 1 s 20 *(laugh)* / 513 5910 1 1(k 11 ^seemed 'probable at f\irst# - / 513 5920 1 1 k 11 now [?]I`m ^n\ot 'going _[tu:] [@m]# . / 513 5930 1 2 k 11 ^{t\ake up} the t\ime of :{^Academic C\ouncil#}# - / 513 5930 1 1 k 11 . / 513 5940 1 1 k 11 [?:] - ^much on :th/is 'one# - / 513 5950 1 1 k 11 [@:] - I ^n\ote# - / 513 5960 1 2 k 11 ^as [@m] !other members of the :Council will :d/o# / 513 5960 1 1 k 11 . / 513 5970 1 1 k 11 that this ^\is al'ready pro:c/eeding# - - / 513 5980 1 2 k 21 [@?m] - ^I /i"!magine that _Academic 'Council / 513 5980 1 1 k 21 [w@:lish] . / 513 5990 1 2 k 11 ^will [@] . :wish to _keep an _eye . _[?]on the / 513 5990 1 1 k 11 w\ay in 'which it pro'ceeds# - - - / 513 6000 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 6010 1 1 b 20 ((you`re right too many aspirin)) / 513 6020 1 1 l 11 ^[/e?d]# - / 513 6030 1 1 l 11 ass^\emble# . / 513 6040 2 2 l 21 ^I [@] - - !have a !{f\eeling} . :that *'my *- / 513 6040 2 1 l 21 !arch-co'lleagues :don`t / 513 6050 1 1 s 20 *(woman clearing throat)* / 513 6040 1 1(l 11 _all see . :eye to :eye with 'each !\/other# / 513 6060 1 2 l 11 [@:] - - - and one ^may 'not g/et unan!\imity out / 513 6060 1 1 l 11 of# / 513 6070 1 1 l 11 ^such dis!c\ussions# - - / 513 6080 1 2 l 11 [@?]^if they are in:tending to re:port . 'back to / 513 6080 1 1 l 11 this !c\/ouncil# - / 513 6090 1 1 l 11 and this "^c\ouncil# / 513 6100 1 3 l 12 ^is '[tu:] :take - [@] or to ^make / 513 6100 1 2 l 12 recommend:{\ations} on the !b\/asis of their / 513 6100 1 1 l 12 re'port# - / 513 6110 1 1 l 11 ^/I {for ^/one#}# / 513 6120 1 1 l 11 would ^like this :C\/ouncil to be ad'vised# / 513 6130 1 1 l 11 by ^people "![?]external to the :univ\ersity# - - -/ 513 6140 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 6150 1 1 b 11 I ^think we ((will)) . !n\/ote 'that# / 513 6160 1 1 b 11 I ^{th/ink} at the m/oment# / 513 6170 1 1 b 11 I - - the ^Arts 'Faculty is :not the !\only 'one# ./ 513 6180 1 1 b 11 ^within 'which :people do not \/always a'gree# . / 513 6190 1 1 b 11 ^that is !quite cl\ear# / 513 6200 1 1 l 11 ^S\ir# . / 513 6210 1 2 l 11 ^many 'other 'subjects have :gone !{thr\ough} this / 513 6210 1 1 l 11 *:\/exercise#* / 513 6220 1 1 b 11 *^y\es#* / 513 6230 1 1(l 11 and [dhi:] ^this 'council and the :uni:v\ersity# - / 513 6240 1 1 l 11 ^was ad!v\ised# / 513 6250 1 1 l 11 by "^external !\experts# / 513 6260 1 2 l 11 [@?] as ^well as by :\/internal . '[@:] / 513 6260 1 1 l 11 part\icipants# / 513 6270 1 1 ? 20 [m] - - / 513 6280 1 1 s 20 (rumbling of mike) / 513 6290 1 1 m 11 ^Ch\airman# / 513 6300 1 1 m 11 it`s ^worth 'pointing /out# / 513 6310 1 1 m 11 that ^s\/ome 'arts 'subjects# / 513 6320 1 2 m 11 ^went !through . the pro_cedure be":fore . !w\ith / 513 6320 1 1 m 11 ex'ternal 'experts# - / 513 6330 1 1 s 20 (papers - rumbling of mike - clearing of throat) / 513 6340 1 1 b 11 ^yes _ind\eed# - / 513 6350 1 1 b 11 and ^that`s 'why 'I - - !made it . cl\ear# / 513 6360 1 1 b 11 or ^if 'I :d/idn`t# . / 513 6370 1 1 b 11 ^better 'say it a:g\ain# / 513 6380 1 1 b 11 that ^this is ":not an :\exercise# / 513 6390 1 1 b 11 that ^has 'actually been co"!!mm\/issioned# . / 513 6400 1 1 b 11 ^b\y# . / 513 6410 1 1 b 11 the ^J _P \C# . / 513 6420 1 1 b 11 or the Coll^egiate C/ouncil# / 513 6430 1 1 b 11 ^[?]or by !th\is 'body# . / 513 6440 1 2 b 11 [@?m] - ^we . 'are [?]in!f\ormed that this / 513 6440 1 1 b 11 :=exercise# - / 513 6450 1 1 b 11 ^is o!cc\urring# - / 513 6460 1 2 b 11 [@?] and ^it will - !make some :recommend:\ations# / 513 6460 1 1 b 11 - / 513 6470 1 2 b 21 [@?m] - I ^don`t 'think - that there has :been any / 513 6470 1 1 b 21 re":{qu\ests} . from Pro'fessor :Bl\ackwell - / 513 6480 1 1 b 11 Pro^fessor :L/inley# - / 513 6490 1 1 b 11 that . [?]it ^sh\ould /as 'it 'were# / 513 6500 1 1 b 11 be^come an of!f\icial# - / 513 6510 1 1 b 11 in^vestig/ation# / 513 6520 1 2 b 11 in the ^sense of of re!porting to a [p@_li?] . / 513 6520 1 1 b 11 par^ticular - c\ouncil# *-* / 513 6530 1 1 s 20 *(rumbling of mike)* / 513 6540 1 2(b 11 [@:m] and I ^think it 'should be re:g\arded :[/aet]/ 513 6540 1 1(b 11 the 'moment# / 513 6550 1 1 b 11 as a ^fact'finding :\/exercise# / 513 6560 1 1 b 11 [@:m] there ^have in:d\eed 'been# - / 513 6570 1 1 b 11 ^\earlier# . / 513 6580 1 1 b 11 "^subject review com:m\/ittees# / 513 6590 1 2 b 11 but I ^think that :they have !nearly :{\all} . / 513 6590 1 1 b 11 'been . "!s\ubject re:v/iew com'mittees# - / 513 6600 1 2 b 11 and ^this will !also :look at the / 513 6600 1 1 b 11 :interre!l\ationship . {^I i!m\/agine#}# / 513 6610 1 1 b 11 be^tw\een# / 513 6620 1 1 b 11 ^different !br\anches of the 'arts# - / 513 6630 1 1 b 11 [@:m] ^so that :it is !rather :[br\/@:dh@]# - / 513 6640 1 2 b 12 per^haps one :ought . might ^even :{s\ay} . :more / 513 6640 1 1 b 12 dif!!f\use# - / 513 6650 1 2 b 11 than ^some [?]of :these 'earlier / 513 6650 1 1 b 11 [?]in'vestig\ations# / 513 6660 1 1 b 11 *Pro^fessor ((Bl\ackwell))#* / 513 6670 1 1 s 20 *(rumbling of mike)* / 513 6680 1 1 g 11 (clearing of throat) we ^will be rep/\orting# / 513 6690 1 1 g 11 to that ^c/ouncil# / 513 6700 1 1 g 11 ^{thr\ough} - :T \A M# - / 513 6710 1 1 g 11 and [@:] ^through the Ex:\ecutive Com:m/ittee# - / 513 6720 1 1 g 11 ^and dir:ectly to :J 'P /C# - / 513 6730 1 1 g 11 [@?] . ^and as re!qu\ested by :/J P 'C# . / 513 6740 1 2 g 11 dir^{=ectly _to} !heads of !schools 'and :college -/ 513 6740 1 1 g 11 - [@:m] - Coll^egiate !C\ouncil# - / 513 6750 1 2 g 11 I ^have [@:] :{wr\itten 'to '[dhi:]} !President / 513 6750 1 1 g 11 '[o6v] '[dhi:] [?o6v] !\U L U# / 513 6760 1 2 g 11 ^[tu:] - [@?] !say that :if there`s !any [@:] / 513 6760 1 1 g 11 !st\/udent '[@?] - _[@:] 'comment# - / 513 6770 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^that _[@?] would be h/elpful# / 513 6780 1 1 g 11 I ^I would be :happy to rec/eive it# / 513 6790 1 1 g 11 ^and /also# / 513 6800 1 2 g 12 ^[tu:] the 'Chairman [@:] ^[tu] '[dhi:] [@?] - / 513 6800 1 1 g 12 ^office of the :London 'A 'U !\/T# / 513 6810 1 2 g 11 in ^case there`s :any [@?] :reason for re:action / 513 6810 1 1 g 11 from !th\ere# - - / 513 6820 1 1 n 11 ^Ch\airman# / 513 6830 1 1 b 11 ^yes ind\eed# / 513 6840 1 1 n 11 ^may {\I} sup!p\ort . Pro'fessor R/othby# / 513 6850 1 1 n 11 one would ^h\/ope actua'lly that# - / 513 6860 1 1 n 11 I ^th/ink# / 513 6870 1 1 n 11 ^probably - we`d be :living in !c\uckoo 'land# / 513 6880 1 1 n 11 if we ^th/ought# / 513 6890 1 2 n 11 that the re"^sults of these deliber'ations / 513 6890 1 1 n 11 !w\ouldn`t# - / 513 6900 1 1 n 11 ^bring out :differences of o:p\inion# - / 513 6910 1 1 n 11 and ^theref/ore !\I 'would be to the 'one# / 513 6920 1 1 n 11 who`d ^like to be a:ss=ured# / 513 6930 1 1 n 11 that ^{sh/ould} . _such things ar/ise# / 513 6940 1 1 n 11 [th@?t@] one ^w\ouldn`t rule out# - / 513 6950 1 1 n 11 that one ^brings in :\external 'people# - / 513 6960 1 1 b 21 ^thank you Prof:e[?] - - / 513 6970 1 1 g 11 [@?] ^if you`d !read the re:p\ort# / 513 6980 1 1 g 11 you would ^s\/ee# / 513 6990 1 1 g 11 that to^wards the :very :\/end it 'says# - / 513 7000 1 1 g 11 [@?] the "^Dean`s Comm=ittee# - / 513 7010 1 1 g 11 ^will con"!s/ider {the re^p/orts#}# / 513 7020 1 2 g 11 and may ^then _seek the :{v\iews} of ex:ternal / 513 7020 1 1 g 11 as:s\essors# - - - / 513 7030 1 1 p 11 [??] *^Ch\air'man#* / 513 7040 1 1 b 11 *((^proc\eed#))* / 513 7050 1 1(p 11 can ^I just \ask . :{^thr\ough you#}# / 513 7060 1 2 p 12 [@?] ^if [@] [dhi:] - ^those 'Senate / 513 7060 1 1 p 12 ":[?]\institutes# / 513 7070 1 1 p 11 ^which "_[?]are with!in the arts :=area# . / 513 7080 1 1 p 11 are ^\also# - / 513 7090 1 2 p 12 [@?] - ^in [dhi:] . :re[?] [?] [?] [@] are ^going / 513 7090 1 1 p 12 to be con:s\/idered 'in this rev\iew# / 513 7100 1 1 b 11 I ^have a!ss\/umed 'so# - / 513 7110 1 1 g 11 ^y\es# / 513 7120 1 2 g 12 ^and [@:m] - ^I [??] have !asked that :[dhi:] [@??]/ 513 7120 1 1 g 12 di!r\ectors# / 513 7130 1 1 g 11 of ^Senate 'institutes :be in!v\ited# / 513 7140 1 2 g 12 ^as [@:] [?] - like ^{/\all 'other} !h\eads {of / 513 7140 1 1 g 12 com^m\ittees#}# / 513 7150 1 1 g 11 ^to [dhi:] [@?] _[?]:/institutes# / 513 7160 1 2 g 11 and ^we !one repre:s\entative of [dhi:] [@:] - / 513 7160 1 1 g 11 Senate institutes . ^on the !Dean`s Com:m\ittee# . / 513 7170 1 1 g 11 the ^overall com_m\ittee# - - - / 513 7180 1 1 ?b 20 ((3 to 4 sylls)) / 513 7190 1 2 h 11 [@:m] - ^I`m rather :n\/ew to Academic Council / 513 7190 1 1 h 11 ((and 'Service))# / 513 7200 1 1 h 11 so I`d ^like some ad:vice . from the :Ch\airman# - / 513 7210 1 2 h 11 I was ^rather sur:prised to :h\ear Prof'essor / 513 7210 1 1 h 11 _Blackwell# / 513 7220 1 1 h 11 ^s\ay that in _[fa?k]# - / 513 7230 1 1 h 11 the re^view was oc!c\urring# . / 513 7240 1 1 h 11 [@:m] ^is it 'normal :pr\actice# / 513 7250 1 1 h 11 ^for [@m] :something to be in!iti\/ated# / 513 7260 1 2 h 11 be^fore it`s :actually been ap_proved by _Academic / 513 7260 1 1 h 11 _Council and !S\enate# - / 513 7270 1 1 h 11 and ^if in :f\act# / 513 7280 1 2 h 11 one ^wanted to make pro:posals a:bout the :terms of/ 513 7280 1 1 h 11 !r\/eference for ex'ample# - / 513 7290 1 1 h 11 ^\of the re'view# - / 513 7300 1 1 h 21 at ^what st=age . / 513 7310 1 1 h 11 ^would 'that _be :m\ade# - - - / 513 7320 1 2 b 11 in ^my - - . [?]amateur in:terpre!t\ation . 'shall / 513 7320 1 1 b 11 we s/ay# / 513 7330 1 1 b 11 [?]is ^[?]/is that# - / 513 7340 1 2 b 12 [@:m] - ^arts . the ^Arts F\aculty {in / 513 7340 1 1 b 12 ^g\/eneral#}# / 513 7350 1 2 b 11 ^is '[?]in . !somewhat "different po:sition :than / 513 7350 1 1 b 11 for ex\ample# - / 513 7360 1 1 b 11 ^[medis@n] - or :science or :engin!\/eering# / 513 7370 1 2 b 11 where there "^are . academic ad:v\/isory 'boards# -/ 513 7370 1 1 b 11 - / 513 7380 1 1 b 11 which ^do meet r\egularly# / 513 7390 1 1 b 11 and which . ^pull to:g\ether# / 513 7400 1 1 b 11 ^different _\aspects# / 513 7410 1 1 b 11 of ^work in the [s] [?]in :that !f\aculty# - / 513 7420 1 1 b 11 [@?m] . and ^those b\oards# / 513 7430 1 2 b 11 ^are at :l/iberty [tu??] . ":pick \up [?]and !l\ook/ 513 7430 1 1 b 11 at# / 513 7440 1 1 b 11 ^any s\ubject# / 513 7450 1 1 b 11 or coll^ection of :{s\ubjects} :they !l\ike# - / 513 7460 1 2 b 11 [@?] they . ^may {th\en} make some / 513 7460 1 1 b 11 :recommend!\/ations# / 513 7470 1 1 b 11 ^\either# - - / 513 7480 1 2 b 11 if I may ^use the :word . / 513 7480 1 1 b 11 "!{d\ownwards} to boards of !st\/udies# - / 513 7490 1 1 b 11 ^\or# - / 513 7500 1 2 b 11 ^upwards '[tu:] :Academic :Council or wher!\ever# -/ 513 7500 1 1 b 11 . / 513 7510 1 2 b 11 they are ^not . {[\@?m]} . !g\iven . [@] / 513 7510 1 1 b 11 ^tasks to :d\/o# - - / 513 7520 1 1 b 11 [@?m] . [?] . ^as a :general !r\ule# - / 513 7530 1 2 b 11 they ^may be :given :indi:vidual !sp\/ecial 'tasks#/ 513 7530 1 1 b 11 . / 513 7540 1 1 b 11 by ^this body _or :\others# - / 513 7550 1 2 b 11 and so ^Arts has :been in . in '[ei] :rather / 513 7550 1 1 b 11 :strange pos!\ition# / 513 7560 1 1 b 11 [i?] in a ^s\ense# - / 513 7570 1 1 b 11 ^th/is# - / 513 7580 1 1 b 11 you could ^l\/ook 'on as# - / 513 7590 2 1 b 21 the ^setting _up - [?o6] [?]of - *[@?] [?]an* - / 513 7600 1 1 s 20 *(someone else blowing nose)* / 513 7590 1 1(b 11 ^academic ad!v\/isory 'board# / 513 7610 1 2 b 11 [???] in - ^practice . but :not in :n\ame at the / 513 7610 1 1 b 11 m/oment# / 513 7620 1 1 b 11 ^f\or# . / 513 7630 1 1 b 11 *per^haps a :=once off# - / 513 7640 1 1 ? 20 *((whispered sylls +whole load of rubbish+))* / 513 7650 1 1(b 11 per^haps + . [??] . [@] + * :[ei] re:p=eated# . / 513 7660 1 1 b 11 or con^tinuing !\exercise# - / 513 7670 1 1 b 11 so that in ^that s\ense# - / 513 7680 1 1 b 11 I think the "^Faculty of /Arts is en!t\itled# - / 513 7690 1 1 b 11 to ^have a 'look at its/elf# - / 513 7700 1 1 b 11 if it ^w\ishes# / 513 7710 1 1 b 11 [@:m] . if it ^w\ants# . / 513 7720 1 1 b 11 its con^{cl\usions} to be :taken !s\/eriously# - / 513 7730 1 1 b 11 by ^=us# . / 513 7740 1 2 b 11 [@?] and by ^/\other 'bodies {with^\/in the / 513 7740 1 1 b 11 uni'versity#}# . / 513 7750 1 1 b 11 ^th=en# / 513 7760 1 2 b 11 it ^must be :seen to _have - _{c\overed} . :[?]all / 513 7760 1 1 b 11 the _necessary !gr\ound# - / 513 7770 1 1 b 11 and ^this 'picks \up I think# / 513 7780 1 1 b 11 Pro^fessor !Devon`s p=oint# - / 513 7790 1 2 b 12 that ^if '[sa7?] [dh@d] ^{\are} some - !tr\icky / 513 7790 1 1 b 12 'matters# . / 513 7800 1 1 b 11 a^r/ising# - / 513 7810 1 2 b 11 ^matters of di!{v\ision} with:in the :Arts _Faculty/ 513 7810 1 1 b 11 !h\/ere# - / 513 7820 1 1 b 11 ^then . it _would _be a :very good id/ea# - / 513 7830 1 1 b 11 as Pro^fessor !R\othby 'said# / 513 7840 1 1 b 11 [tu:] - per^haps seek ad:vice . from :h/ere# . / 513 7850 1 2 b 11 [@?] - - but ^then _to get an :outside p\/erson / 513 7850 1 1 b 11 [?]or 'two# . / 513 7860 1 1 b 11 to ^c\omment on the 'situation# / 513 7870 1 1 b 11 so that ^th/is# - / 513 7880 1 1 b 11 I ^think is wh\y# . / 513 7890 1 2 b 11 [@?] . [dhi:] - re^{v\iew} has a:risen in _this - / 513 7890 1 1 b 11 !!t\o 'us# . / 513 7900 1 1 b 11 ^slightly un:usual w\ay# - - / 513 7910 1 1 h 11 could ^I \add to that :Ch/airman# . / 513 7920 1 1 h 11 [@?] it`s ^just been !mentioned that there !w\ere# / 513 7930 1 2 h 12 [@] ^[sa7?] [k k] [@] com^mittees which "!looked / 513 7930 1 1 h 12 'at 'arts :s\/ubjects in the uni'versity# / 513 7940 1 1 h 11 in^d\eed there :{^w\/ere#}# - / 513 7950 1 1 h 11 and I ^{sp=oke} :\/afterwards# / 513 7960 1 1 h 11 to ^one [@] [?]ex:ternal :\expert# / 513 7970 1 1 h 11 who was con^{c\erned} with !l\anguages# / 513 7980 1 1 h 11 and ^pointed \out# / 513 7990 1 1 h 11 that ^his comm\ittee 'had _made# / 513 8000 1 2 h 11 ^two en:{t\irely} [?]incom:patible / 513 8000 1 1 h 11 !recommend!\ations# - / 513 8010 1 1 h 11 and ^he said :y/es# - / 513 8020 1 1 h 11 that`s ^y\our 'problem# - / 513 8030 1 1 h 11 I ^t\ook it# / 513 8040 1 1 h 11 that ^what he was :pointing . !t=o# - / 513 8050 1 2 h 11 was the ^need f\or the 'Arts _Faculty of :th/is / 513 8050 1 1 h 11 uni'versity# / 513 8060 1 2 h 11 to ^get to:g/ether [?]and 'sort \out such / 513 8060 1 1 h 11 'problems# / 513 8070 1 1 h 11 it`s ^taken us a !very :long :time to !d\/o it# / 513 8080 1 2 h 11 but I ^hope that we can :right _now _make a !proper/ 513 8080 1 1 h 11 st\art# - - / 513 8090 1 1 h 11 ((`^fessor !H\arrap#)) . / 513 8100 1 1 p 11 ^Chairman !th\ank 'you# - / 513 8110 1 1 p 11 [@:m] . I I ^see that in [@:] 'item !tw\o# / 513 8120 1 1 p 11 of [dhi] ^r\/easons for the re'view# - / 513 8130 1 1 p 11 there ^is a {m\ention} :of [@?] . !f\/unding# - - / 513 8140 1 1 p 12 [@m] but ^no . I ^see _no \other [@] 'mention of# / 513 8150 1 1 p 11 re^source implic:\ations# / 513 8160 1 1 p 11 in [dhi] - ^r\/est of the 'document# - / 513 8170 1 1 p 11 ^is this \one of [dhi]# - / 513 8180 1 1 p 11 [@] ^areas _which is :going to be cons/idered# / 513 8190 1 1 p 11 [@] . ^under [dhi:] - :h/eads# / 513 8200 1 1 p 11 [@] . ^listed under - :paragraph :tw/o# / 513 8210 1 1 p 11 of the . ^[mei?] [??] :C tw/o# - - / 513 8220 1 1 b 11 I ^think \I will# . / 513 8230 1 2 b 11 ^have to re:{f\er you} to Pro:fessor !Bl\/ackwell ./ 513 8230 1 1 b 11 for that# . / 513 8240 1 1 b 11 I ^th\ink# - / 513 8250 1 2 b 11 if I ^might just [@] . :make a !c\/omment . 'that# / 513 8250 1 1 b 11 . / 513 8260 1 2 b 11 [@:m] - ^arts 'are in d\anger {in this / 513 8260 1 1 b 11 uni^v\ersity#}# / 513 8270 1 1 b 11 I`m ^s\ure# - / 513 8280 1 1 b 11 ^as in every \other uni'versity# - / 513 8290 1 2 b 11 [@:m] . ((that)) it is ^much more "!{d\ifficult} to/ 513 8290 1 1 b 11 de:f\end the 'arts# - - / 513 8300 1 1 b 11 ^scientists and :\/others# - / 513 8310 1 2 b 11 have got ^out'side :people to !sp\eak 'for the[?] ./ 513 8310 1 1 b 11 u"^tility of :{wh\at they 'do} . 'or s\omething# . / 513 8320 1 2 b 11 in ^t\/erms which the Government _can . / 513 8320 1 1 b 11 [?]under!st\and# - / 513 8330 1 1 b 11 [@:m] - ^so - in !that s/ense# . / 513 8340 1 1 b 11 res^ources come :\/into it# / 513 8350 1 2 b 11 but I would ^like to :[?]ask . _pass your :question/ 513 8350 1 1 b 11 I think dir:ectly to Pro:fessor !Bl\/ackwell that# / 513 8360 1 1 b 11 ^[a6:?] - :is this re!v\/iew# / 513 8370 1 2 b 11 ^actually going to !look . '[?]at . '[dhi:] / 513 8370 1 1 b 11 res:ource distrib\ution# - - / 513 8380 1 1 b 11 and re^source . re!qu\irements# . / 513 8390 1 1 b 11 with^in . '[dhi:] . :Arts F\aculty# - / 513 8400 1 1 g 11 ^w\ell# / 513 8410 1 1 g 11 we [d] . we ^don`t have any fi:n\ance# / 513 8420 1 1 g 11 to dis^tr\ibute# . / 513 8430 1 1 g 11 if ^that`s what you !m\/ean# - / 513 8440 1 2 g 11 [@?] ^we will !obviously be {l\/ooking . '[?]at} / 513 8440 1 1 g 11 [@] !tr\ends# - - / 513 8450 1 1 g 11 [@:] with^in the :last 'five !y\ears# . / 513 8460 1 2 g 11 ^as '[dhi] [@] - [@:] :inform!ation re:qu=ired / 513 8460 1 1 g 11 '[@:]# / 513 8470 1 1 g 11 from de^partments sug!g\ests# - / 513 8480 1 1 g 11 and [@?] a de^cl=ine# - / 513 8490 1 1 g 11 [@:] ^in res!{s\ources} :will [?]in :f=act# / 513 8500 1 1 g 11 [@:m] - [@:] app^\ear# - / 513 8510 1 2 g 11 [@:] from rep^lies to :some 'of '[dhi:] [@?] . / 513 8510 1 1 g 11 !qu\/estions that [jwi:] !\ask# / 513 8520 1 1 g 11 for ex^\/ample# / 513 8530 1 1 g 11 [?] . ^number of !!t\/eaching hours# - / 513 8540 1 1 g 11 has ^gr\own within that five y/ears# / 513 8550 1 2 g 11 that ^is [@:] :and [@:] . !number of 'staff [f] / 513 8550 1 1 g 11 :f\/allen# - / 513 8560 1 1 g 11 then ^that`s an indic:\/ation 'that# / 513 8570 1 2 g 12 we ^need _more - [@:] per^haps more _people [?]in / 513 8570 1 1 g 12 :that de!!p\artment# - / 513 8580 1 1 g 11 and *^this has :((gotta))* be !l\ooked at# / 513 8590 1 1 p 11 *^if !I can just :\add# / 513 8600 1 2 p 12 ^I 'I[?]* - - I ^would pre:{s\ume} that [dhi:] . / 513 8600 1 1 p 12 '[@:] - in:vestig:ation would !have !\access 'to# / 513 8610 1 1 p 11 ^such 'data _[?]as for ex_=ample# / 513 8620 1 1 p 11 ^unit !c\osts# / 513 8630 1 1 p 11 a^cr\oss the uni'versity# / 513 8640 1 1 p 11 and com^parators with :\other uni'versities# - - / 513 8650 1 1 b 11 I I ^th/ink# - - / 513 8660 1 1 b 11 ^if it were :n\/ecessary# . / 513 8670 1 1 b 11 ^that !s\/ort of infor'mation could be g/ained# / 513 8680 1 1 b 11 *^Mr \Ewell#* / 513 8690 1 1 r 11 *(inhalation)* ^y\es# / 513 8700 1 2 r 11 at [@] ^Academic [@?] . [@?] :Council Ex!\/ecutive / 513 8700 1 1 r 11 Comm'ittee 'Chairman# . / 513 8710 1 1 r 12 [@:m] ^[dhi:] the ^n\/ew 'Faculty of 'Arts# / 513 8720 1 2 r 11 was "^asked to consider in!cl\/uding on the 'Dean`s/ 513 8720 1 1 r 11 Comm'ittee# / 513 8730 1 1 r 11 a ^r/\ecognised t/eacher and a st\udent# - / 513 8740 1 1 r 11 [@] ^preferably in the :Arts . _f\ield# - / 513 8750 1 1 r 11 he a^ppears to have taken st/eps# / 513 8760 1 1 r 11 to con^sult the !st\/udent 'body# . / 513 8770 1 2 r 11 repre^sentative members of the students` b/ody . / 513 8770 1 1 r 11 but# - / 513 8780 1 2 r 11 [@:] there ^{d/\oesn`t 'seem} to have been /\any / 513 8780 1 1 r 11 [@:m] [?@:m] 'step# / 513 8790 1 1 r 11 ^t\/aken 'so 'far# / 513 8800 1 1 r 11 to ^actually in'clude :recognised !t\eachers# / 513 8810 1 2 r 11 in the ^actual - re!view pr/ocess the / 513 8810 1 1 r 11 de!c\ision 'making 'process# / 513 8820 1 1 r 11 ^they`ll s\imply be# . / 513 8830 1 1 r 11 re^p\/orted 'to# - / 513 8840 1 1 r 11 at their ^boards of !st\udies# - / 513 8850 1 1 r 11 [@?m] I ^{w\onder} :why he !h\asn`t 'actually# / 513 8860 1 1 r 11 could he exp^l\ain why# / 513 8870 1 1 r 11 he ^hasn`t /actually taken \up 'that# - / 513 8880 1 1 r 11 [@m] sugg^{/estion} so f/ar# - - - / 513 8890 1 1 g 11 there ^/\are# / 513 8900 1 2 g 11 [@] ^recognised :teachers !on the :Dean`s / 513 8900 1 1 g 11 Comm:\ittee# - / 513 8910 1 2 g 11 ^not 'all :{D\/eans} 'are prof!essors 'or '[?]or / 513 8910 1 1 g 11 !r=eaders# - . / 513 8920 1 2 g 10 [@:] (clears throat twice) - / 513 8920 1 1 g 10 [?] ^/\every 'member of 'staff . _[@:m]# . / 513 8930 1 1 g 11 ^{/every} 'member of the _Arts _F/aculty# - - / 513 8940 1 1 g 11 ^{c/an} - 'make sugg/estions# / 513 8950 1 1 g 11 as I`ve ^s/aid# / 513 8960 1 2 g 11 "^[?]either through the :Departm/ental Comm'ittee# / 513 8960 1 1 g 11 - . / 513 8970 1 1 g 11 "^through the 'Arts F/aculty# / 513 8980 1 1 g 11 of . ^[?]of 'his sch/ool# - / 513 8990 1 1 g 11 or her ^sch/ool# - / 513 9000 1 1 g 11 "^through the 'Board of :St\/udies# - / 513 9010 1 1 g 11 ^or !indiv\idually# - / 513 9020 1 1 g 11 ^or in !gr\oups# . / 513 9030 1 1 g 11 if they ^l/ike# / 513 9040 1 1 g 11 dir^ect to the !Dean`s Comm\ittee# - - - / 513 9050 1 1 b 11 ^Dr !\Anderson# / 513 9060 1 1 e 11 yes a^g\ain# . / 513 9070 1 1 e 11 _[@?] - _[@?m] . it ^is a !recognised _f\act# / 513 9080 1 1 e 11 [@:] - ^that in :f=act# / 513 9090 1 1 e 11 [@:] - ^students !\/and recognised 'teacher# / 513 9100 1 2 e 11 are ^actually - dir!\/ectly repre'sentatives 'on# -/ 513 9100 1 1 e 11 . / 513 9110 1 1 e 11 [dhi:] ^b=oards# . / 513 9120 1 1 e 11 [dhi?] on this ^this b=oard# - / 513 9130 1 1 e 11 and ^on the :S\enate# - / 513 9140 1 1 e 12 and ^this is [bi:k@?] for a ^very good !r\/eason# -/ 513 9150 1 2 e 11 that "^{\indirect _represent_ation} 'is not :always/ 513 9150 1 1 e 11 very e"!ff\ective 'represent_ation# / 513 9160 1 2 e 11 and a ^very 'modest pro:posal was !p\/ut to the / 513 9160 1 1 e 11 'Academic 'Council Ex'ecutive Comm'ittee# / 513 9170 1 2 e 11 and ^passed :\/on to the 'Dean in the 'Faculty of / 513 9170 1 1 e 11 'Arts# / 513 9180 1 1 e 11 which - ^s\aid tha[?]t# . / 513 9190 1 1 e 11 ((a))^mong 'all 'your :D\/eans# - / 513 9200 1 1 e 11 "^{m\ost} of who will be :senior m\embers# . / 513 9210 1 1 e 11 of [dh@?] . ^univ/ersity# / 513 9220 1 1 e 11 ^or !even :if they !are recognised t=eachers# - / 513 9230 1 1 e 11 will ^have a :Dean`s :r\ole# - / 513 9240 1 1 e 11 there ^should be a st/udent# - / 513 9250 1 1 e 11 ^putting a !st=udent _point of _view# - / 513 9260 1 2 e 11 a ^r=ecognised _teacher . 'putting a !r\ecognised / 513 9260 1 1 e 11 _teacher . _point of _view# / 513 9270 1 2 e 13 ^\I think ^find that`s a - ^((you know)) that`s a / 513 9270 1 1 e 13 :very !m\/odest pro'posal# / 513 9280 1 2 e 11 and I ^think it would !help 'to :quell 'some of / 513 9280 1 1 e 11 [dhi:] - the !w\orries# / 513 9290 1 1 e 11 that ^people like Pro:fessor !F\airman - f/eel# / 513 9300 1 2 e 11 ^that _there should :be 'some . [@] !f\/ocus for / 513 9300 1 1 e 11 'recognised 'teachers and {^student f/ocus#}# - / 513 9310 1 2 e 11 where ^people . who 'feel !{h\appier to [b]} :focus/ 513 9310 1 1 e 11 through :th\/ose 'ones# / 513 9320 1 3 e 11 and ^knowing that their[?] . :their 'views can / 513 9320 1 2 e 11 !actually . :put dir!\ectly to the 'Dean`s / 513 9320 1 1 e 11 Comm'ittee# / 513 9330 1 1 e 11 ^no[?] - 'via . a:nother comm=ittee# / 513 9340 1 2 e 11 [n7wi?] and you ^never {h\ear} :what the :\outcome / 513 9340 1 1 e 11 'is# - / 513 9350 1 1 e 11 and it was ^you kn/ow# / 513 9360 1 1 e 11 "^l\istened 'to# / 513 9370 1 1 e 11 "^very c\arefully# / 513 9380 1 1 e 11 but [@:] - in the ^/end# / 513 9390 1 1 e 12 ^[n@?] . ^no !notice was !t\aken# / 513 9400 1 1 e 11 but - like "^{/I`ve} always f/ound# / 513 9410 1 1 e 11 ^having !st\/udents 'there# / 513 9420 1 2 e 11 ^actually - ":stops 'people 'saying a !lot of / 513 9420 1 1 e 11 :stupid :th\ings about# / 513 9430 1 1 e 12 ^what [stj/u:p@n?] . ^st\/udents 'think# / 513 9440 1 1 e 12 and ^[dh@@?] . ^may 'I :say :\/also# - / 513 9450 1 2 e 11 ^having _recognised !teachers :sometimes 'brings a / 513 9450 1 1 e 11 "!deal of :common :sense into de:liber\ations# / 513 9460 1 1 e 11 and I ^h\ope the 'Dean of the _Faculty of /Arts# / 513 9470 1 1 e 11 ((he)) ^{h\asn`t} :s\aid 'no - y/et# . / 513 9480 1 1 e 11 ((i)) just ^hasn`t _said :y\es# / 513 9490 1 1 e 11 that [?]^he will !n\ow# / 513 9500 1 1 e 11 *get ^up and 'say* !y\es# - - / 513 9510 1 1 s 20 *(wheeze of laughter from the audience)* / 513 9520 1 2 b 11 could we ^\ask you Pro{^fessor Bl\ackwell '[tu?]#}#/ 513 9520 1 1 b 11 - / 513 9530 1 1 b 11 *+^t\/ake that* on 'board#+ / 513 9540 1 1 e 11 *+^say y\es#* - -+ / 513 9550 1 1 s 20 +(snorting laughter)+ / 513 9560 1 1(b 12 ^on 'to '[dhi:] - - . "^\/one 'of the groups# / 513 9570 1 1 b 11 which . [da7?z] . con^s\iders# - - / 513 9580 1 1 b 11 [@??] [dhi:] [?] ^inform/ation# . / 513 9590 1 1 b 11 ^\I mean# / 513 9600 1 2 b 12 ^there are there are ^obviously !plenty of . [@?] / 513 9600 1 1 b 12 :possibilities :here _for - indi!v\iduals# / 513 9610 1 1 b 11 to ^{f\eed} . their 'views :\in# . / 513 9620 1 1 b 11 [@:] but [@?] [?:] it ^might 'be - p/olitic# - / 513 9630 1 1 b 11 [?]if ^I may :=use that _word# / 513 9640 1 2 b 11 '[tu:] con^sider :having :somebody . :there . on / 513 9640 1 1 b 11 [dhi] . :[dhi:] [?] [?] - !st\udy 'body# . / 513 9650 1 1 ? 20 ((quite)) - - / 513 9660 1 1 g 11 I will ^take that :into [@] acc!\/ount# / 513 9670 1 3 g 12 [?m] per^haps _[no7:m?] - Pro^fessor :Linley . / 513 9670 1 2 g 12 _will [@?] - - will :have something to !s\/ay / 513 9670 1 1 g 12 'here# - / 513 9680 1 2 g 11 I`m a ^bit re'luctant . a'bout :student / 513 9680 1 1 g 11 'represent!\ation# / 513 9690 1 1 g 11 dir^ectly on the :D\/ean`s Comm'ittee# - / 513 9700 1 1 g 11 be^cause [@] . !personn!\el 'matters# / 513 9710 1 1 g 11 that [?]I`m ^!{s\ure} will be :m\/entioned there# / 513 9720 1 1 g 11 and I ^{d\on`t} think it`s app:r\opriate# . / 513 9730 1 2 g 11 ^just as !!\/our comm'ittee has res'erved / 513 9730 1 1 g 11 'business# - / 513 9740 1 2 g 11 [@:] I ^{d\on`t} think it`s appr:opriate '{f=or} . / 513 9740 1 1 g 11 :students to be [p@pr@:] !pr\esent# / 513 9750 1 1 g 11 ^for (([dh@] *![?]answer to your :qu\estion))# - - / 513 9760 1 1 g 20 [@:] . it is also* / 513 9770 1 1 e 11 *[k] ^can !I s\/ay that Prof'essor 'Blackwell# / 513 9780 1 1 e 11 that ^`s\uredly# / 513 9790 1 3 e 11 ^n/o* / 513 9790 1 2 e 11 ^no 'mention of :[p@6:s@n@?] . '[p@?] . :p=eople / 513 9790 1 1 e 11 _by _name# / 513 9800 1 1 e 11 would be ^made at !\any comm'ittee# - / 513 9810 1 2 e 11 [?] . [?]at the ^Academics` [ks] _Council E!x\ec {I/ 513 9810 1 1 e 11 ^m\ean#}# / 513 9820 1 1 e 11 he`s ^\only# - / 513 9830 1 1 e 11 ^rein:forcing the !f\/ears 'now# / 513 9840 1 1 e 11 that ^actual :people`s :n\ames `n# - / 513 9850 1 1 e 11 ^th/ings are gonna be !m\entioned# / 513 9860 1 1 e 11 which is - ^what !w\orries every'body# - / 513 9870 1 1 e 12 [w@o7:?^o7:?] ^all the 'more . :r=eason# / 513 9880 1 2 e 11 why we ^should _`ave st\udents and :{^recognised / 513 9880 1 1 e 11 :teachers !th\ere#}# - - - / 513 9890 1 1 s 20 (mumbling) / 513 9900 1 1 b 21 [@] well I ^think this / 513 9910 1 1 d 11 [@] [b? . di? ? tsh] ^Ch\airman# / 513 9920 1 1 d 11 [dzh?] ^could !\I# . / 513 9930 1 2 d 11 ^just make a :point a!b\out . [@:] - - [@:] . this / 513 9930 1 1 d 11 s/ubject# - - / 513 9940 1 1 d 11 to su^pp\/ose# / 513 9950 1 1 d 11 that the ^pr/esence# / 513 9960 1 1 d 11 on the ^{D\ean`s} Comm:\/ittee# / 513 9970 1 1 d 11 of ^one recognised :t\/eacher# - / 513 9980 1 1 d 11 would ^be an !/\adequate# / 513 9990 1 1 d 11 ^way of !s\/afeguarding# - / 513 10000 1 2 d 11 the the ^{\interests} of :\/all 'recognised / 513 10000 1 1 d 11 'teachers# . / 513 10010 1 1 d 11 is the ^politics of the abs\urd# - - / 513 10020 1 1 d 11 we have al^ready been t\old# - / 513 10030 1 1 d 11 ^th\at# / 513 10040 1 2 d 11 what^[?]ever 'findings or 'recommend'ations are / 513 10040 1 1 d 11 'made by 'this :Dean`s Comm/ittee# - / 513 10050 1 1 d 11 ^will _be rep/orted# - / 513 10060 1 1 d 11 to the Coll^/egiate 'Council# - / 513 10070 1 1 d 11 the ^Acad/emic 'Council# - / 513 10080 1 1 d 11 ^boards of st/udies# - / 513 10090 1 1 d 11 ^schools of the 'univ/ersity# . / 513 10100 1 1 d 11 and ^ultimately the !S\enate# - / 513 10110 1 1 d 11 on ^{th/is} [?]Acad'emic C/ouncil# - / 513 10120 1 1 d 11 there are ^r/\ecognised t/eachers# . / 513 10130 1 1 d 11 ^/and !st\udents# - / 513 10140 1 1 d 11 ^[?]at the S/enate# . / 513 10150 1 1 d 11 there are ^r/\ecognised t/eachers and !st\udents# / 513 10160 1 2 d 12 we are ^talking here [?]a^bout [?ei] committee of / 513 10160 1 1 d 12 !!D\eans# - / 513 10170 1 1 d 11 ^if !y\ou 'Sir# / 513 10180 1 1 d 11 ^as !Chairman of this 'Academic :C\/ouncil# / 513 10190 1 1 d 11 ^w/ere# . / 513 10200 1 1 d 11 as I`m ^sure you d\o# / 513 10210 1 1 d 11 from ^time to :t\ime# - / 513 10220 1 1 d 12 to ^call . ^call to:g\ether# . / 513 10230 1 1 d 11 [?eim] [?ei] [ei] ^m\/eeting# - / 513 10240 1 1 d 11 of [dhi:] [tsh] ^ch\/airmen# / 513 10250 1 2 d 11 of the ^four 'Academic :Council !{st\anding} / 513 10250 1 1 d 11 :s\/ubcommittees# / 513 10260 1 1 d 11 to con^{s/ider} a m\/atter# - / 513 10270 1 1 d 11 we ^would !not sup:p\/ose# / 513 10280 1 1 d 11 that ^/\every 'time 'you :d\/id so# . / 513 10290 1 2 d 11 there would ^have to 'be '[?ei] ":r\ecognised / 513 10290 1 1 d 11 'teacher pr/esent# - / 513 10300 1 1 d 11 and a ^st\udent 'present# - - - / 513 10310 1 1 b 20 ((Baker)) / 513 10320 1 1 t 11 ^thank 'you Ch/airman# - / 513 10330 1 2 t 11 [@:m] . ^my 'point 'was - a :rather !d\/ifferent / 513 10330 1 1 t 11 'one# . / 513 10340 1 1 t 11 I ^see under :three _\a# / 513 10350 1 1 t 11 that ^one of the - !r\easons is _[tu:]# . / 513 10360 1 2 t 11 ^try '[tu] :strengthen :intercoll'egiate / 513 10360 1 1 t 11 :t\/eaching and 'so on# / 513 10370 1 1 t 11 and I ^w\ondered 'whether# . / 513 10380 1 3 t 11 ^this _group would :also . !look at [dhi:] / 513 10380 1 2 t 11 "![?]implications for !!f\inance {be^tween / 513 10380 1 1 t 11 c\olleges#}# / 513 10390 1 1 t 11 because - ^intercoll:egiate !t\/eaching# / 513 10400 1 1 t 11 is ^something which - :many 'people !f\/eel# . / 513 10410 1 1 t 11 ^some 'colleges are [?a7] :net !\/exporters# / 513 10420 1 1 t 11 and ^some _net !\/importers# / 513 10430 1 2 t 11 and there`s ^no "!{m\oney} trans'ferred as a / 513 10430 1 1 t 11 res\ult# /