11 1   1   10 1 1 a    11  ^Mr P=otter#                                       / 
11 1   1   20 1 1 a    11  ^did y/ou# - -                                     / 
11 1   1   30 1 1 a    11  ar^r\/ive#                                         / 
11 1   1   40 1 1 a    11  a^bout !two o`cl\ock#                              / 
11 1   1   50 1 1 a    11  ^on [dhi] . !S\unday# .                            / 
11 1   1   60 1 1 a    11  the ^date the 'will was . s\igned# .               / 
11 1   1   70 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - -                                         / 
11 1   1   80 1 1 a    11  and . did ^you . g\/o#                             / 
11 1   1   90 1 1 a    11  and ^see your 'mother :straight aw/ay#             / 
11 1   1  100 1 1 b    11  ^y\es I _did#                                      / 
11 1   1  110 1 1 a    11  ^what was she 'then d\oing# .                      / 
11 1   1  120 1 1 b    11  she was ^having her l\unch# - - -                  / 
11 1   1  130 1 1 a    11  ^what a'bout the :br\andy 'bottle#                 / 
11 1   1  140 1 1 a    11  ^where was th\at# - -                              / 
11 1   1  150 1 1 b    11  ^I 'don`t kn\ow#                                   / 
11 1   1  160 1 1 b    12  ^I 'didn`t [s] . ![lu?] ^I 'didn`t !s\ee#          / 
11 1   1  170 1 1 a    11  you ^didn`t s\/ee _it#                             / 
11 1   2  180 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1   2  190 1 1 b    11  ^n\o {I ^d\idn`t#}#                                / 
11 1   2  200 1 1 b    14  ^I ^I ^I ^all I kn/ow#                             / 
11 1   2  210 1 1 b    11  was ^my !mother was :having her !l\unch# .         / 
11 1   2  220 2 1 b    21  when *I*                                           / 
11 1   2  230 1 1 a    20  *((and))*                                          / 
11 1   2  220 1 1(b    11  ar^r\ived# -                                       / 
11 1   2  240 1 1 a    11  ^how did she !s\eem {^th\en#}# -                   / 
11 1   2  250 1 1 a    11  ((at)) ^two o`cl\ock# -                            / 
11 1   2  260 1 1 b    11  ^w/ell# .                                          / 
11 1   2  270 1 1 b    11  she ^seemed 'all r/ight#                           / 
11 1   2  280 1 1 b    11  I ^think she was a :little t\/ired# - - -          / 
11 1   2  290 1 1 a    11  and ^how 'long did it :t\ake#                      / 
11 1   2  300 1 1 a    11  ^for her to com'plete her l\unch# - - -            / 
11 1   2  310 1 1 b    11  oh ^I would !th=ink# - - -                         / 
11 1   2  320 1 1 b    11  ^pr=obably# .                                      / 
11 1   2  330 1 1 b    11  ^f/ifteen 'minutes# -                              / 
11 1   3  340 1 1 a    12  ^was it /any a ^meal of any s/ubstance# .          / 
11 1   3  350 1 1 b    11  she ^had [@:m] . :ch\icken#                        / 
11 1   3  360 1 1 b    11  she ^didn`t 'eat very :m\uch of it# - - -          / 
11 1   3  370 1 1 a    11  ^did !you s\/it with 'her#                         / 
11 1   3  380 1 1 a    11  ^wh=ilst# .                                        / 
11 1   3  390 1 1 a    11  she com^pleted the m\/eal# -                       / 
11 1   3  400 1 1 b    11  I was ^in the r=oom#                               / 
11 1   3  410 1 1 b    11  ^while she was :h\/aving _it#                      / 
11 1   3  420 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1   3  430 1 2 a    12  and ^then [@] ( . coughs) - did she ^have it on a  / 
11 1   3  430 1 1 a    12  tr/ay# - .                                         / 
11 1   3  440 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1   3  450 1 1 a    11  ^somebody took the !tr\ay out . {pre^s\umably#}# . / 
11 1   3  460 1 1 b    11  [@:] ^my !w\ife 'took it 'out# -                   / 
11 1   4  470 1 1 a    11  and [?] . ^that`s . 'then a'bout 'two fift\een# - -/ 
11 1   4  480 1 1 b    11  [@] ^y/es#                                         / 
11 1   4  490 1 1 b    11  [i?] ^y/es#                                        / 
11 1   4  500 1 1 b    11  it ^w\ould be# .                                   / 
11 1   4  510 1 1 a    11  were ^y/ou 'then# .                                / 
11 1   4  520 1 1 a    11  a^lone w/ith 'her# - -                             / 
11 1   4  530 1 1 b    11  [@m] I was a^lone with m/other#                    / 
11 1   4  540 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1   4  550 1 1 b    21  ^after . my :wife left - - *[@m]*                  / 
11 1   4  560 1 1 a    11  ^*what* !took pl\ace#                              / 
11 1   4  570 1 2 a    11  ^after your :wife 'left with the tr\ay . {be^tween / 
11 1   4  570 1 1 a    11  'you and your m\other#}# .                         / 
11 1   4  580 1 1 b    11  well my ^mother \asked 'me#                        / 
11 1   4  590 1 1 b    11  ^when I "!g\ot th/ere# .                           / 
11 1   4  600 1 1 b    11  ^if 'I had br\ought# -                             / 
11 1   4  610 1 1 b    11  [@] this ^draft of her ":w\ill# .                  / 
11 1   4  620 1 1 b    11  and I ^said I h\ad# - -                            / 
11 1   4  630 1 1 b    11  ^when . my "!wife l/eft#                           / 
11 1   4  640 1 1 b    11  my ^mother 'asked me !f\or it#                     / 
11 1   5  650 1 1 b    11  and I ^gave it !t\o 'her# - - -                    / 
11 1   5  660 1 1 a    11  ((^n\ow#)) - -                                     / 
11 1   5  670 1 1 a    11  ^did !she - - r\ead# .                             / 
11 1   5  680 1 1 a    11  ^n/ormally#                                        / 
11 1   5  690 1 2 a    11  or ^did 'she re'quire as!s\istance {in             / 
11 1   5  690 1 1 a    11  ^r\eading#}# .                                     / 
11 1   5  700 1 2 b    11  she ^/used a m\agni'fying {^gl\ass {to             / 
11 1   5  700 1 1 b    11  ^r\ead#}#}# .                                      / 
11 1   5  710 1 1 a    11  ^did she have !glasses as w\ell# -                 / 
11 1   5  720 1 1 b    11  [@] ^y=es#                                         / 
11 1   5  730 1 1 b    11  she ^d\id# - - -                                   / 
11 1   5  740 1 1 a    11  and ^did she . !use her m\agni'fying 'glass#       / 
11 1   5  750 1 1 a    12  ((on)) ^that [@k] on ^that occ/asion# .            / 
11 1   5  760 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# .                                           / 
11 1   5  770 1 1 b    11  she ^d/id# -                                       / 
11 1   5  780 1 1 a    11  ^did you !read it al\/oud to her# .                / 
11 1   5  790 1 1 b    11  I ^d=id#                                           / 
11 1   5  800 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# -                                           / 
11 1   6  810 1 1 a    11  the "^whole w\ill#                                 / 
11 1   6  820 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1   6  830 1 1 a    11  in ^/one 'go#                                      / 
11 1   6  840 1 1 a    11  or ^how many t\urns# -                             / 
11 1   6  850 1 2 a    11  I mean ^how many . {!\efforts} did you             / 
11 1   6  850 1 1 a    11  :m\ake# - - -                                      / 
11 1   6  860 1 1 b    11  well I ^read it sl\owly t/o her# -                 / 
11 1   6  870 1 1 b    11  ^and . !during that :t\/ime# .                     / 
11 1   6  880 1 1 b    11  ^whilst I was !r\/eading it to her#                / 
11 1   6  890 1 1 b    11  my "^wife came 'in with a :cup of t\ea# - - -      / 
11 1   6  900 1 1 a    11  ^wh/\en you#                                       / 
11 1   6  910 1 1 a    11  ^read it . "!t\o h/er# -                           / 
11 1   6  920 1 2 a    11  ^had she !got the :nineteen 'sixty-'one 'will w\ith/ 
11 1   6  920 1 1 a    11  her# - - -                                         / 
11 1   6  930 1 1 b    11  [@ . dhi] ^nineteen 'sixty-:\one w/ill#            / 
11 1   6  940 1 1 b    11  was ^in the !same \/envelope#                      / 
11 1   7  950 1 2 b    11  that I ^bought the !two - dr\aft _wills            / 
11 1   7  950 1 1 b    11  _over# - - -                                       / 
11 1   7  960 1 1 a    11  ^y/es# .                                           / 
11 1   7  970 1 1 a    11  and ^when - you were . !r\eading# .                / 
11 1   7  980 1 1 a    11  [dhi] ^nineteen 'sixty-"!f\our w/ill# .            / 
11 1   7  990 1 2 a    11  ^did !mother . at the :same 'time have the         / 
11 1   7  990 1 1 a    11  'nineteen 'sixty-'one {w\ill} . :w\ith her# .      / 
11 1   7 1000 1 1 b    11  it was ^/on her b\ed#                              / 
11 1   7 1010 1 1 b    11  but . it ^wasn`t open in :fr\ont of her# -         / 
11 1   7 1020 1 1 a    11  ^when you "r\/ead it# -                            / 
11 1   7 1030 1 1 a    11  ^did you read the "!wh\ole 'thing thr/ough# - -    / 
11 1   7 1040 1 1 a    11  with^out a p/ause# - - -                           / 
11 1   7 1050 1 2 b    11  well I ^wouldn`t say I :read it 'through with'out a/ 
11 1   7 1050 1 1 b    11  :p\ause# - .                                       / 
11 1   8 1060 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# -                                            / 
11 1   8 1070 1 1 a    11  ^how many . p\auses {w\ere there#}# -              / 
11 1   8 1080 1 1 b    11  well ^that I 'couldn`t s\ay# .                     / 
11 1   8 1090 1 1 a    11  ^l\ook# .                                          / 
11 1   8 1100 1 1 a    22  ^what I . ^what *I*                                / 
11 1   8 1110 1 1 b    11  *I* ^read it sl\owly _to _her#                     / 
11 1   8 1120 1 2 a    11  ((yes but)) ^did you read it :{p\aragraph} by      / 
11 1   8 1120 1 1 a    11  !p\aragraph#                                       / 
11 1   8 1130 1 2 a    11  and ^say now 'mother do you understand "!th\at     / 
11 1   8 1130 1 1 a    11  'paragraph#                                        / 
11 1   8 1140 1 1 b    11  [a] ^y/es#                                         / 
11 1   8 1150 1 1 b    11  I ^read it p\aragraph '[gra:f]#                    / 
11 1   8 1160 1 1 b    11  by ^p\aragraph to m/other# - -                     / 
11 1   8 1170 1 1 b    11  ^and !when I`d :f\inished# .                       / 
11 1   8 1180 1 1 b    11  ^when we`d !f\inished /it# .                       / 
11 1   8 1190 1 1 b    11  ^m\other 'said# .                                  / 
11 1   8 1200 1 2 b    12  ^that ex!actly ^that`s ex!actly what I :want to    / 
11 1   8 1200 1 1 b    12  d/o# -                                             / 
11 1   9 1210 1 1 b    11  and I ^want [m?] 'Captain and 'Mrs K\/ay# .        / 
11 1   9 1220 1 1 b    11  to ^witness 'my !s\ignature 'to it# .              / 
11 1   9 1230 1 1 a    11  ((now)) ^did you !th\en# -                         / 
11 1   9 1240 1 1 a    11  ^sh/ow 'her#                                       / 
11 1   9 1250 1 1 a    11  [dhi] ^nineteen !sixty-"!\one 'will#               / 
11 1   9 1260 1 1 a    11  and ex^plain the !d\ifference# .                   / 
11 1   9 1270 1 1 b    11  ^n/o I did n\ot# -                                 / 
11 1   9 1280 1 1 b    11  my ^mother !kn\ew _that#                           / 
11 1   9 1290 1 1 b    11  ^quite w\ell# .                                    / 
11 1   9 1300 1 1 a    11  ^d/id 'she# .                                      / 
11 1   9 1310 1 1 b    11  in ^m\y m/ind#                                     / 
11 1   9 1320 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# - - -                                       / 
11 1   9 1330 1 1 a    11  ^did you ex!pl\ain to h/er#                        / 
11 1   9 1340 1 2 a    11  ^even if you didn`t !sh\ow the 'nineteen           / 
11 1   9 1340 1 1 a    11  'sixty-{\one} w/ill# - -                           / 
11 1   9 1350 1 1 a    11  the ^basic !d\/ifference#                          / 
11 1   9 1360 1 1 a    11  "^n\/amely#                                        / 
11 1  10 1370 1 1 a    11  that . ((do)) you "^r\ealize m/other#              / 
11 1  10 1380 1 2 a    11  you`re ^giving :me an!other 'twelve hundred and    / 
11 1  10 1380 1 1 a    11  :fifty p/ounds#                                    / 
11 1  10 1390 1 1 a    11  ^\over and ab/ove#                                 / 
11 1  10 1400 1 2 a    11  ^what - 'Maureen was 'getting ((under)) the !\other/ 
11 1  10 1400 1 1 a    11  one# -                                             / 
11 1  10 1410 1 1 b    11  ^n/o#                                              / 
11 1  10 1420 1 1 b    11  I said ^nothing like 'that to my m\other#          / 
11 1  10 1430 1 1 a    11  ^n/\othing# - - -                                  / 
11 1  10 1440 1 1 a    11  ^did you !know 'mother had been dr\/inking# -      / 
11 1  10 1450 1 1 b    11  I ^d\on`t think#                                   / 
11 1  10 1460 1 1 b    11  ^mother had been !drinking at !\all# .             / 
11 1  10 1470 1 1 a    11  ^did she 'drink . 'when y\/ou were 'there# - -     / 
11 1  10 1480 1 1 b    11  ^n/o she did n\ot# -                               / 
11 1  11 1490 1 1 a    11  ^was there - "!\any t/ime# .                       / 
11 1  11 1500 1 1 a    11  be^tween !your ar!r\ival#                          / 
11 1  11 1510 1 1 a    11  at "^tw\o o`cl/ock#                                / 
11 1  11 1520 1 1 a    11  and ^your de!p\arture# -                           / 
11 1  11 1530 1 1 a    11  ^after she had !s\igned the w/ill# .               / 
11 1  11 1540 1 1 a    11  ^when she 'had !any 'alco'holic dr\ink# -          / 
11 1  11 1550 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# .                                            / 
11 1  11 1560 1 1 a    11  are ^you s/ure#                                    / 
11 1  11 1570 1 1 b    11  ^I`m !abso'lutely p\ositive#                       / 
11 1  11 1580 1 1 a    11  ((^very g\ood#)) - - -                             / 
11 1  11 1590 1 1 a    11  were ^you in the r\oom#                            / 
11 1  11 1600 1 1 a    11  when she ^phoned the d/octor# -                    / 
11 1  11 1610 1 1 b    11  [@] ^n\o# .                                        / 
11 1  11 1620 1 1 b    11  ^I was !n\ot#                                      / 
11 1  11 1630 1 1 b    11  my ^mother !d\idn`t _phone the _doctor# -          / 
11 1  11 1640 1 1 c    11  ((are you)) ^s\ure a'bout th/at# .                 / 
11 1  12 1650 1 1 b    11  ^yes I \am 'sure# .                                / 
11 1  12 1660 1 1 b    11  ^my l\ord# .                                       / 
11 1  12 1670 1 1 c    11  ((well)) you ^heard Doctor F\ell#                  / 
11 1  12 1680 1 1 c    11  ^give his *'evidence* yesterd/ay# -                / 
11 1  12 1690 2 1 c    21  ^was he                                            / 
11 1  12 1700 1 1 b    11  *^y=es#*                                           / 
11 1  12 1690 1 1(c    11  "ch/allenged {on ^what he s/aid#}# .               / 
11 1  12 1710 1 1 b    11  ^n\o#                                              / 
11 1  12 1720 1 1 b    11  my ^w\ife 'phoned the d/octor#                     / 
11 1  12 1730 1 1 b    11  ^when we ar!r\ived#                                / 
11 1  12 1740 1 1 b    11  be^cause my !m\other said to my w/ife# -           / 
11 1  12 1750 1 1 b    11  ^will you 'phone R\ichard# -                       / 
11 1  12 1760 1 1 b    11  be^cause she !w\anted to 'go into a 'nursing-h/ome#/ 
11 1  12 1770 1 1 b    11  and the ^doctor said [sh] it wasn`t *:n\ecessary#* / 
11 1  12 1780 1 1 a    11  *well ^n\ow#* - -                                  / 
11 1  12 1790 1 1 a    11  ^you . "!h\eard . the d/octor# .                   / 
11 1  12 1800 1 1 a    11  *you ^were in* c\ourt#                             / 
11 1  12 1810 1 1 b    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  12 1820 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# - -                                         / 
11 1  13 1830 1 1 a    11  ^your . c/ounsel#                                  / 
11 1  13 1840 1 1 a    11  ^did !n=ot# .                                      / 
11 1  13 1850 1 1 a    11  ^ask perm/ission#                                  / 
11 1  13 1860 1 1 a    11  ^to cross-ex!\amine the d/octor# .                 / 
11 1  13 1870 1 1 a    11  ^d\id he# *.*                                      / 
11 1  13 1880 1 1 a    11  ^if 'he was wr\ong# .                              / 
11 1  13 1890 1 1 b    11  *^n/o#*                                            / 
11 1  13 1900 1 1 b    11  [@] ^n\/o#                                         / 
11 1  13 1910 1 1 a    11  ^where were you s\/itting#                         / 
11 1  13 1920 1 1 a    11  ^near your !c/ounsel#                              / 
11 1  13 1930 1 1 a    11  ^when that 'evidence was being g/iven# .           / 
11 1  13 1940 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  13 1950 1 1 a    11  do you ^[sta:] my 'lord n/ow#                      / 
11 1  13 1960 1 2 a    11  the ^doctor . is . !plainly . and {com!pl\etely}   / 
11 1  13 1960 1 1 a    11  wr\ong# -                                          / 
11 1  13 1970 1 1 b    11  ^n\o#                                              / 
11 1  13 1980 1 1 b    12  I ^think . I ^think !pr\/obably# .                 / 
11 1  13 1990 1 1 b    11  the ^doctor`s a :busy m/an# .                      / 
11 1  13 2000 1 1 b    11  he ^had a !ph\one c/all# - -                       / 
11 1  14 2010 1 1 b    11  [@:m] . ^from ((the)) . [@] . !s\/omebody# .       / 
11 1  14 2020 1 2 b    11  my "^m\other didn`t 'phone him at thr/ee           / 
11 1  14 2020 1 1 b    11  o`'clock# .                                        / 
11 1  14 2030 1 1 b    11  ^that I`m !c\ertain# -                             / 
11 1  14 2040 1 1 b    11  [@m - ?] ^whether it was :somebody /else#          / 
11 1  14 2050 1 1 b    11  but - he he ^did !s\ay# - -                        / 
11 1  14 2060 1 2 b    11  that he ^couldn`t 'under'stand 'what - [@:] :mother/ 
11 1  14 2060 1 1 b    11  was !s\/aying#                                     / 
11 1  14 2070 1 1 b    11  but he ^c\/ame# .                                  / 
11 1  14 2080 1 1 b    11  with a ^list of !n\ursing-'homes# -                / 
11 1  14 2090 1 1 b    11  ^which my w/ife# -                                 / 
11 1  14 2100 1 1 b    11  [@] which he ^s\aid#                               / 
11 1  14 2110 1 1 b    11  he would ^br\ing#                                  / 
11 1  14 2120 1 1 b    11  and he ^told 'my {w=ife} on the ph/one#            / 
11 1  14 2130 1 1 b    11  when she ^phoned him at !two o`!cl\ock# .          / 
11 1  14 2140 1 1 b    11  or ^just 'after !tw\o# -                           / 
11 1  14 2150 1 1 c    11  well ^what the ":d\octor s/aid#                    / 
11 1  14 2160 1 2 c    11  I ^don`t want any "!s\ort of mis'under'standing    / 
11 1  14 2160 1 1 c    11  a'bout th/is# -                                    / 
11 1  15 2170 1 1 c    11  that a^bout !three o`cl\ock# .                     / 
11 1  15 2180 1 1 c    11  ^your !m\other 'phoned h/im# -                     / 
11 1  15 2190 1 1 c    11  that ^her !speech was :sl\/urred#                  / 
11 1  15 2200 1 1 c    11  and he ^thought her 'inco!h\/erent# -              / 
11 1  15 2210 1 1 c    11  and ^he was :w\orried# -                           / 
11 1  15 2220 1 1 c    11  [@? i] ^in !c\ase#                                 / 
11 1  15 2230 1 1 c    11  she was a^bout to !s\/uffer# .                     / 
11 1  15 2240 1 1 c    11  [?] from a"^b\out to 'have a str/oke#              / 
11 1  15 2250 1 2 c    12  only she ^thought he [m] . she ^m\ight be          / 
11 1  15 2250 1 1 c    12  s/uffering#                                        / 
11 1  15 2260 1 1 c    11  from ^cerebral a!n\aemia# -                        / 
11 1  15 2270 1 1 c    11  and as a re^sult of :that 'convers/ation#          / 
11 1  15 2280 1 1 c    11  ^he came r/ound# - -                               / 
11 1  15 2290 1 1 c    11  a^bout !three 'hours l\ater# -                     / 
11 1  15 2300 1 1 c    11  are ^you s\aying#                                  / 
11 1  15 2310 1 1 c    11  that the ^doctor was wr/ong#                       / 
11 1  16 2320 1 1 c    11  that it ^wasn`t your m/other# -                    / 
11 1  16 2330 1 1 c    11  who was ^t/alking to 'him# .                       / 
11 1  16 2340 1 1 b    11  I`m ^s\ure# .                                      / 
11 1  16 2350 1 1 b    11  my ^l=ord# .                                       / 
11 1  16 2360 1 1 b    11  my ^mother didn`t 'phone the d\octor#              / 
11 1  16 2370 1 1 b    11  at ^three o`!cl\ock {on ^that d\ay#}# .            / 
11 1  16 2380 1 1 c    11  or at ^\/all#                                      / 
11 1  16 2390 1 1 c    11  while ^you were {th/ere} that 'after*n/oon#*       / 
11 1  16 2400 1 1 b    11  *or* at ^\all#                                     / 
11 1  16 2410 1 1 b    11  while ^I was 'there that 'aftern\oon# - -          / 
11 1  16 2420 1 1 c    11  well ^I`m - - 'now in :great d\ifficulty#          / 
11 1  16 2430 1 1 a    11  mi^l\ord#                                          / 
11 1  16 2440 1 1 a    11  ^\I# .                                             / 
11 1  16 2450 2 1 a    21  *^didn`t                                           / 
11 1  16 2460 1 1(c    11  *((and)) I ex^pect "!you are :t\oo#*               / 
11 1  17 2450 1 1(a    11  ((2 sylls you of)) being the !l\east#*             / 
11 1  17 2470 1 1 a    11  of ^c=ourse# - -                                   / 
11 1  17 2480 1 1 c    11  you ^see the !d\octor# .                           / 
11 1  17 2490 1 1 c    11  for ^one !r\eason or {an^=other#}# -               / 
11 1  17 2500 1 1 c    11  was ^\asked about th/is# - - -                     / 
11 1  17 2510 1 1 c    11  *and ^he* !d\/ealt with 'it#                       / 
11 1  17 2520 1 1 c    11  ((if)) ^I th/ink#                                  / 
11 1  17 2530 2 1 c    21  in                                                 / 
11 1  17 2540 1 1 a    21  *((if ^I may))*                                    / 
11 1  17 2530 1 1(c    11  ^in !ch\ief#                                       / 
11 1  17 2550 1 1 c    11  I`m ^just l\ooking#                                / 
11 1  17 2560 1 1 a    11  ^yes he d/\id#                                     / 
11 1  17 2570 1 1 a    11  ^/\oh yes#                                         / 
11 1  17 2580 1 2 a    11  he was ^asked by my 'learned !friend in            / 
11 1  17 2580 1 1 a    11  !ch\ief# - - -                                     / 
11 1  17 2590 1 1 c    11  ^s=o [@]# - -                                      / 
11 1  17 2600 1 1 c    11  and ^there it w/\as# - -                           / 
11 1  17 2610 1 1 c    11  ^I think the d\octor#                              / 
11 1  17 2620 1 1 c    11  had ^better come !b\ack# -                         / 
11 1  17 2630 1 1 c    11  ^this is a !v\ital m/atter#                        / 
11 1  17 2640 1 1 c    11  which had ^never been !p\ut to him# - -            / 
11 1  17 2650 1 1 c    11  ^what d`you s\ay {^Mr !H\ooker#}# - - -            / 
11 1  18 2660 1 1 d    11  if your ^lordship requ\ires#                       / 
11 1  18 2670 1 1 d    11  the . ^doctor b/ack#                               / 
11 1  18 2680 1 1 c    11  ((well)) it`s ^most un!f\ortunate#                 / 
11 1  18 2690 1 1 c    11  ^\isn`t it# -                                      / 
11 1  18 2700 1 1 c    11  ^putting it !m\ildly# .                            / 
11 1  18 2710 1 1 c    11  ^your cl\ient# -                                   / 
11 1  18 2720 1 1 c    11  is ^sitting 'just beh/ind you# - - -               / 
11 1  18 2730 1 1 c    11  or ^just be'hind the sol/icitors {per^h/aps#}# - - / 
11 1  18 2740 1 1 c    11  in ^full communi'cation w/ith 'you# -              / 
11 1  18 2750 1 1 c    11  and ^n/ow#                                         / 
11 1  18 2760 1 1 c    11  for the ^first "!t\ime# .                          / 
11 1  18 2770 1 1 c    11  a ^day l\ater# - -                                 / 
11 1  18 2780 1 1 c    11  it`s sug^g\ested by this w/itness#                 / 
11 1  18 2790 1 1 c    11  that the ^d\octor#                                 / 
11 1  18 2800 1 1 c    11  was ^wr\ong in his recoll/ection# -                / 
11 1  18 2810 1 1 c    11  it ^wasn`t the de:c\/eased who 'spoke to 'him#     / 
11 1  18 2820 1 1 c    11  at ^\all# - - -                                    / 
11 1  19 2830 1 1 c    11  ^seems to be a very !str\ange#                     / 
11 1  19 2840 1 1 c    11  ^state of af!f\airs#                               / 
11 1  19 2850 1 1 c    11  I ^say _no !m\ore# -                               / 
11 1  19 2860 1 1 c    11  if you ^want to {'rec\all} the !d\octor#           / 
11 1  19 2870 1 1 c    11  you may ^d\o 'so# - - -                            / 
11 1  19 2880 1 1 c    11  *the ^t\erms#*                                     / 
11 1  19 2890 1 1 ?    20  *((2 sylls))*                                      / 
11 1  19 2900 1 1(c    11  of ad^j/ournment#                                  / 
11 1  19 2910 1 1 c    11  I shall ^have to !d\eal with# -                    / 
11 1  19 2920 1 1 a    11  ^I would !think I !\ought to tell your l/ordship# ./ 
11 1  19 2930 1 1 a    11  so that "^n\othing#                                / 
11 1  19 2940 1 1 a    11  is . is to be ^h\idden#                            / 
11 1  19 2950 1 1 a    11  from "^\our s/ide# -                               / 
11 1  19 2960 1 1 a    11  that ^[dhi] !pl\aintiffs suppl/ied#                / 
11 1  19 2970 1 1 a    11  "^c\ertain st/atements#                            / 
11 1  19 2980 1 1 a    11  "^t\o us# - -                                      / 
11 1  19 2990 1 1 a    11  "^s\everal {^months ag\o#}# .                      / 
11 1  19 3000 1 1 a    11  "^\one of wh/ich#                                  / 
11 1  19 3010 1 1 a    11  was [ei] ^short st/atement#                        / 
11 1  20 3020 1 1 a    11  ^from [dhi] "!d\octor# -                           / 
11 1  20 3030 1 1 a    11  and mi^l=ord#                                      / 
11 1  20 3040 1 1 a    11  the ^statement - pro:vided by "!th\em# .           / 
11 1  20 3050 1 1 a    11  spe^c\ifically#                                    / 
11 1  20 3060 1 1 a    11  ^said !these w\ords# .                             / 
11 1  20 3070 1 1 a    11  she ^t\elephoned#                                  / 
11 1  20 3080 1 1 a    11  ^during the S/unday#                               / 
11 1  20 3090 1 1 a    11  a^bout !thr\ee p/m#                                / 
11 1  20 3100 1 1 a    11  and her ^speech 'seemed sl\urred# -                / 
11 1  20 3110 1 1 a    11  and ^s\o on# - - -                                 / 
11 1  20 3120 1 1 a    11  mi^l=ord#                                          / 
11 1  20 3130 1 1 a    11  ^I can "!ch\eck#                                   / 
11 1  20 3140 1 1 a    11  if your ^lordship . thinks it h=elpful#            / 
11 1  20 3150 1 1 a    11  the ex"^act d\ate#                                 / 
11 1  20 3160 1 1 a    11  but ^it was !many m\onths {ag\o#}# .               / 
11 1  20 3170 1 1 a    11  that ^that st/atement#                             / 
11 1  20 3180 1 1 a    11  was sup^pl\ied to us#                              / 
11 1  20 3190 1 1 c    11  well I`d ^like you to have 'found \out *please#*   / 
11 1  20 3200 1 1 a    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  20 3210 1 1 a    11  ^c\ertainly#                                       / 
11 1  20 3220 1 1 a    11  I`ll ^find out the ex!\act 'date# - - -            / 
11 1  21 3230 1 1 a    11  mi^l=ord# .                                        / 
11 1  21 3240 1 1 a    11  ^my . so!l\icitor# .                               / 
11 1  21 3250 1 1 a    11  ^if I !may - !b\ear with ((you))#                  / 
11 1  21 3260 1 1 a    11  if your ^lordship would !b\/ear with 'me#          / 
11 1  21 3270 1 1 a    11  ^he will have to res\earch# *- - -*                / 
11 1  21 3280 1 1 c    11  *^yes of !c\ourse#*                                / 
11 1  21 3290 1 1(a    11  ((his)) ^f\ile# .                                  / 
11 1  21 3300 1 1 a    11  for the ex^act d\ate# - - -                        / 
11 1  21 3310 1 2 c    11  well I`d ^like to 'know what you`re ":s\aying      / 
11 1  21 3310 1 1 c    11  a'bout th/is# .                                    / 
11 1  21 3320 1 1 c    11  [?] are you ^s\aying#                              / 
11 1  21 3330 1 1 c    11  that [@] . the ^doctor`s recoll\ection#            / 
11 1  21 3340 1 1 c    11  was com^pletely wr/ong# .                          / 
11 1  21 3350 1 1 c    11  or that ^p\/ossibly#                               / 
11 1  21 3360 1 1 c    11  ^he !got con!f\used#                               / 
11 1  21 3370 1 1 c    11  with an^other !p\atient#                           / 
11 1  21 3380 1 1 b    11  ^I can !only th=ink# .                             / 
11 1  21 3390 1 1 b    11  my ^l/ord#                                         / 
11 1  21 3400 1 2 b    11  ((that)) it [k] ^could have been . :one of 'those  / 
11 1  21 3400 1 1 b    11  'two th\ings# - - -                                / 
11 1  22 3410 1 1 c    11  were you ^with your m\other#                       / 
11 1  22 3420 1 1 c    12  the ^whole . ^whole of that aftern/oon#            / 
11 1  22 3430 1 1 c    20  *((2 to 3 sylls))*                                 / 
11 1  22 3440 1 1 b    11  *^yes I !w\as* (({my ^l\ord#}#)) -                 / 
11 1  22 3450 1 1 c    11  [?] ^not 'out of the 'room at /all#                / 
11 1  22 3460 1 1 b    11  ^I . !don`t 'think I :left the 'room at \all#      / 
11 1  22 3470 1 1 c    11  and you`re ^quite c\/ertain#                       / 
11 1  22 3480 1 1 c    11  that your ^mother 'never t=ele'phoned# .           / 
11 1  22 3490 1 1 c    11  the ^d\/octor#                                     / 
11 1  22 3500 1 1 b    11  ^I am !quite c\ertain#                             / 
11 1  22 3510 1 1 c    11  did she ^tele'phone /anybody#                      / 
11 1  22 3520 1 1 b    11  ^n\o . {my ^l\ord#}# - - -                         / 
11 1  22 3530 1 1 a    11  ^did "you t/elephone {the ^d/octor#}# .            / 
11 1  22 3540 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# .                                            / 
11 1  23 3550 1 1 a    11  are ^you s/ure# .                                  / 
11 1  23 3560 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  23 3570 1 1 b    11  ^not on th\at d/ay#                                / 
11 1  23 3580 1 1 b    11  my ^w\ife did# - - -                               / 
11 1  23 3590 1 1 a    11  ^your sol\/icitors# - -                            / 
11 1  23 3600 1 1 a    11  ^furnished a st/atement#                           / 
11 1  23 3610 1 1 a    11  ^((made)) !by "y\/ou# -                            / 
11 1  23 3620 1 1 a    11  ^to . ![dhi:] de!f\endant`s {so^l\icitors#}#       / 
11 1  23 3630 1 1 b    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  23 3640 1 1(a    11  *. ((is))* ^that with:in your kn/owledge# -        / 
11 1  23 3650 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  23 3660 1 1 a    11  you ^((kn\ow)) 'that# .                            / 
11 1  23 3670 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  23 3680 1 1 a    11  ^[\m]# .                                           / 
11 1  23 3690 1 1 a    11  ^did !you kn/ow#                                   / 
11 1  23 3700 1 1 a    11  that ^in . "!th\at st/atement# -                   / 
11 1  23 3710 1 1 a    11  ^furnished by !your so:l\icitor# -                 / 
11 1  23 3720 1 1 a    11  ^to the de!f\/endant`s# .                          / 
11 1  24 3730 1 1 a    11  ^it`s st\ated# .                                   / 
11 1  24 3740 1 1 a    11  ^both \Elsie and /I#                               / 
11 1  24 3750 1 1 a    11  had sug^gested this to m=other#                    / 
11 1  24 3760 1 1 a    11  before "^/\I phoned her d/octor#                   / 
11 1  24 3770 1 1 a    11  ^who was /out# .                                   / 
11 1  24 3780 1 1 a    11  but - ar^ranged with the re:c\/eptionist#          / 
11 1  24 3790 1 1 a    11  that I`d . ^phone him :early next :m\orning#       / 
11 1  24 3800 1 1 a    11  from my ^h\ome#                                    / 
11 1  24 3810 1 1 a    11  ^this !I d\id# .                                   / 
11 1  24 3820 1 1 b    11  ^that is !s\o#                                     / 
11 1  24 3830 1 1 b    11  but ^that was :=on# .                              / 
11 1  24 3840 1 1 b    11  the ^Th\/ursday# -                                 / 
11 1  24 3850 1 1 b    11  [@:] be^f\ore# -                                   / 
11 1  24 3860 1 1 a    11  ^y/es# -                                           / 
11 1  24 3870 1 1 a    11  ((but)) "^that 'would . acc/ount#                  / 
11 1  24 3880 1 1 a    11  for ^him !bringing . [dhi] . :d\/etails#           / 
11 1  24 3890 1 1 a    11  of [dhi] . ^n\ursing-'home# -                      / 
11 1  24 3900 1 1 b    11  [@:] - ^w/ell#                                     / 
11 1  24 3910 1 1 b    11  ^not !n\/ecessarily#                               / 
11 1  24 3920 1 1 b    11  ^n\o#                                              / 
11 1  24 3930 1 1 b    11  I ^phoned h=im# .                                  / 
11 1  25 3940 1 1 b    11  ^on . [dhi:] . !Friday :m\orning# .                / 
11 1  25 3950 1 1 b    11  and ^t\old him#                                    / 
11 1  25 3960 1 1 b    11  I ^wanted 'mother to 'go into a !n\urs*ing-:h/ome#*/ 
11 1  25 3970 1 1 a    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  25 3980 1 1(b    11  and the ^doctor s=aid# .                           / 
11 1  25 3990 1 1 b    11  ^he !thought it was !not n/eces'sary#              / 
11 1  25 4000 1 1 b    11  at ^\all#                                          / 
11 1  25 4010 1 1 a    11  ((yes)) ^qu\ite 'right# .                          / 
11 1  25 4020 1 1 a    11  you ^s=ee#                                         / 
11 1  25 4030 1 1 a    11  ^what I`m ( . coughs) 'asking is :th=is# .         / 
11 1  25 4040 1 1 a    11  ^your suggestion /is#                              / 
11 1  25 4050 1 1 a    11  that ^it was your "!wife`s ph\one m/essage# .      / 
11 1  25 4060 1 1 a    11  that ^caused the d/octor#                          / 
11 1  25 4070 1 1 a    11  to ^bring d\etails#                                / 
11 1  25 4080 1 1 a    11  of the ^n\ursing-'homes#                           / 
11 1  25 4090 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  25 4100 1 1 b    11  I ^think it w\as#                                  / 
11 1  26 4110 1 1 a    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  26 4120 1 1 a    11  ^you`d ph/oned#                                    / 
11 1  26 4130 1 1 a    11  the ^day be"!f\ore {a^b\out it#}#                  / 
11 1  26 4140 1 1 b    11  ^I`d 'phoned the 'day bef/ore#                     / 
11 1  26 4150 1 2 b    11  and . the ^doctor 'said it 'wasn`t                 / 
11 1  26 4150 1 1 b    11  !n\ecessary# - - -                                 / 
11 1  26 4160 1 1 a    11  ^y/\es#                                            / 
11 1  26 4170 1 1 a    11  ( . clears throat) - - - you ^s\ee#                / 
11 1  26 4180 1 1 a    11  ^I sug!g\est# -                                    / 
11 1  26 4190 1 1 a    11  ^Mr P/otter#                                       / 
11 1  26 4200 1 1 a    11  ^quite pl/ainly#                                   / 
11 1  26 4210 1 1 a    11  that . ^your !m\other#                             / 
11 1  26 4220 1 1 a    11  ^telephoned the :d/octor# .                        / 
11 1  26 4230 1 1 a    11  and she ^was in a 'state of in!toxi!c\ation#       / 
11 1  26 4240 1 1 a    11  and ^it was a'bout !three o`!cl\ock# -             / 
11 1  26 4250 1 1 b    11  ^I em!phatically :s\ay#                            / 
11 1  26 4260 1 1 b    11  that ^my !mother was "!n\ot#                       / 
11 1  26 4270 1 1 b    11  in a [s] a ^state of in!toxic/ation#               / 
11 1  26 4280 1 1 b    11  she ^knew ex"!\actly 'what she was :d/oing# .      / 
11 1  27 4290 1 1 b    11  she was a "^v\ery de'termined w/oman#              / 
11 1  27 4300 1 1 b    11  and she ^did 'not !ph\one the :d=octor#            / 
11 1  27 4310 1 1 b    11  the ^whole 'time 'I was 'there that 'aftern\oon#   / 
11 1  27 4320 1 1 a    11  there`s . ^n\o d/oubt#                             / 
11 1  27 4330 1 1 a    11  that the ^t/\ime# .                                / 
11 1  27 4340 1 1 a    11  that . "^y=ou#                                     / 
11 1  27 4350 1 1 a    11  "^r=ead#                                           / 
11 1  27 4360 1 1 a    11  the ^w\ill#                                        / 
11 1  27 4370 1 1 a    11  ^t\o 'her# - -                                     / 
11 1  27 4380 1 2 a    11  ^was the !time 'she 'gave her ap:pr\oval {^\of     / 
11 1  27 4380 1 1 a    11  it#}# .                                            / 
11 1  27 4390 1 1 a    11  ^w\asn`t it# -                                     / 
11 1  27 4400 1 1 b    11  ^y=es#                                             / 
11 1  27 4410 1 1 a    11  ^and to !be f/air#                                 / 
11 1  27 4420 1 1 a    11  ^when 'she "!s\/igned 'it# .                       / 
11 1  27 4430 1 1 a    11  a^bout 'two and a 'half hours l\ater# - -          / 
11 1  27 4440 1 1 a    11  it ^wasn`t 'read \over to her# -                   / 
11 1  28 4450 1 1 b    11  it ^wasn`t 'read ag/ain *to 'her*#                 / 
11 1  28 4460 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# .                                            / 
11 1  28 4470 1 1 a    11  *((^n/o#))*                                        / 
11 1  28 4480 1 1 a    11  the po^sition b/eing# .                            / 
11 1  28 4490 1 1 a    11  ^that 'when she !s\/igned 'it# .                   / 
11 1  28 4500 1 1 a    11  she be^l\ieved#                                    / 
11 1  28 4510 1 1 a    11  she was ^s\igning a d/ocument#                     / 
11 1  28 4520 1 1 a    11  ^which had been 'read 'over to h\er# .             / 
11 1  28 4530 1 1 a    11  ^two 'hours be'fore by y\ou# - -                   / 
11 1  28 4540 1 1 b    11  she ^kn\ew she was 'signing the *d/ocument#        / 
11 1  28 4550 1 1 b    12  she ^had it .* she ^had it her!s\elf#              / 
11 1  28 4560 1 1 a    11  *((^1 s\yll 'that#))                               / 
11 1  28 4570 1 1 a    11  ^qu\ite 'right#*                                   / 
11 1  28 4580 1 1 a    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  28 4590 1 1 a    11  ^that`s r/ight# .                                  / 
11 1  28 4600 1 1 a    11  ^so that - 'her "!m\/ind# .                        / 
11 1  28 4610 1 1 a    11  ^when she "!s\/igned it# .                         / 
11 1  28 4620 1 1 a    11  was ^g\/eared#                                     / 
11 1  28 4630 1 1 a    11  to ^what . had 'been !r\/ead to 'her#              / 
11 1  28 4640 1 1 a    11  ^two 'hours be:f\ore# - - -                        / 
11 1  29 4650 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  29 4660 1 1 b    11  she ^kn/\ew# .                                     / 
11 1  29 4670 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# -                                           / 
11 1  29 4680 1 1 a    11  and ^\I sug'gest#                                  / 
11 1  29 4690 1 1 a    11  it`s ^that !very !t\/ime#                          / 
11 1  29 4700 1 1 a    11  that ^she s\/igned 'it# -                          / 
11 1  29 4710 1 1 a    11  that ^she was 'under in!toxi!c\ation# -            / 
11 1  29 4720 1 1 b    11  well ^that is {com"!pl\etely} wr\ong# -            / 
11 1  29 4730 1 1 a    11  and that ^sh\e#                                    / 
11 1  29 4740 1 1 a    11  was in ^f\act# .                                   / 
11 1  29 4750 1 1 a    11  ^having "that w\ill#                               / 
11 1  29 4760 1 1 a    11  ^read to 'her by ":y\/ou# -                        / 
11 1  29 4770 1 1 a    11  ^only a !v\ery#                                    / 
11 1  29 4780 1 1 a    11  ^few m/oments#                                     / 
11 1  29 4790 1 1 a    11  be^fore the !d\octor# -                            / 
11 1  29 4800 1 1 a    11  re^ceived a !ph\one 'call#                         / 
11 1  29 4810 1 1 a    11  ^from !h=er# .                                     / 
11 1  29 4820 1 1 a    11  "^in a 'state of in'toxic\ation# .                 / 
11 1  29 4830 1 1 b    11  ^that is com!pletely wr\ong#                       / 
11 1  29 4840 1 1 b    11  ^my 'mother did "!not 'make a :ph\one 'call#       / 
11 1  29 4850 1 1 b    11  ^on 'that d/ay#                                    / 
11 1  30 4860 1 1 b    11  ^to the d\octor# .                                 / 
11 1  30 4870 1 1 b    11  ^that 'aftern\oon# .                               / 
11 1  30 4880 1 1 b    11  ^that 'I kn\ow#                                    / 
11 1  30 4890 1 1 a    11  [dhi:] ^st/\atement# .                             / 
11 1  30 4900 1 1 a    11  of the ^d\octor# .                                 / 
11 1  30 4910 1 1 a    11  ((^th=ink#)) .                                     / 
11 1  30 4920 1 1 a    11  ^which was !s\ent# -                               / 
11 1  30 4930 1 1 a    11  ^by !your sol\icitors#                             / 
11 1  30 4940 1 1 a    11  to the de"^f\endant`s sol/icitors# -               / 
11 1  30 4950 1 1 a    11  ^did you s/ee it# -                                / 
11 1  30 4960 1 1 b    11  I ^[t=@ul]#                                        / 
11 1  30 4970 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  30 4980 1 1 b    11  I ^d\id#                                           / 
11 1  30 4990 1 1 a    11  ^y=es#                                             / 
11 1  30 5000 1 1 a    21  ^just - . *((2 to 3 sylls))* **[@] ((1 syll))**    / 
11 1  30 5010 1 1 c    11  *is it* ^d/ated {Mr ^Sm/ith#}#                     / 
11 1  30 5020 1 1 c    11  ((of **^c=ourse))** 'I 'have# .                    / 
11 1  30 5030 1 1 c    11  ^is it d/ated#                                     / 
11 1  31 5040 1 1 a    11  ^n\o mi'lord#                                      / 
11 1  31 5050 1 1 a    11  it ^\isn`t# -                                      / 
11 1  31 5060 1 1 a    11  ^it is 'not . d\ated# -                            / 
11 1  31 5070 1 1 a    11  but per^haps he could s/ee#                        / 
11 1  31 5080 1 1 a    11  it`s a . ^ph\otostat c/opy# .                      / 
11 1  31 5090 1 1 a    11  [t] so ((that)) there`s ^no [a] . 'ambig\uity#     / 
11 1  31 5100 1 1 a    11  "^what\ever# - - -                                 / 
11 1  31 5110 1 1 c    11  I ^think 'you`re ent/itled#                        / 
11 1  31 5120 1 1 c    11  to ^call for the o!r\iginal#                       / 
11 1  31 5130 1 1 c    11  if you ^w/ant to# .                                / 
11 1  31 5140 1 1 a    12  ((mi^lord I)) . ^y\es#                             / 
11 1  31 5150 1 1 a    11  ^c\ertainly#                                       / 
11 1  31 5160 1 1 a    20  I *((2 to 3 sylls))*                               / 
11 1  31 5170 1 1 c    11  *^that 'may be* d/ated# - - -                      / 
11 1  31 5180 1 1 d    11  [@m] ^my . in!structing sol/icitor#                / 
11 1  31 5190 1 1 d    11  ^has 'gone 'to :phone [dhi:] . !d\octor#           / 
11 1  31 5200 1 1 d    20  [@] *((6 to 7 sylls))*                             / 
11 1  32 5210 1 1 c    11  *well I ^didn`t 'say the* d\octor#                 / 
11 1  32 5220 1 1 c    11  was to ^come 'forthw/ith# -                        / 
11 1  32 5230 1 2 c    11  [? w@w@?] he ^seems to have :acted 'rather         / 
11 1  32 5230 1 1 c    11  pre!c\ipitately# -                                 / 
11 1  32 5240 1 1 c    11  I ^said I would :enter"!t\ain {a re^qu\est#}# -    / 
11 1  32 5250 1 1 c    11  ((to)) ^call . the d/octor#;*-* -;                 / 
11 1  32 5260 1 1 d    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  32 5270 1 1(c    11  be^c=ause [@]# .                                   / 
11 1  32 5280 1 1 c    11  [? dhi: ?] ad^dition of an ad!j\ournment#          / 
11 1  32 5290 1 1 c    11  you ^may 'find :onerous as to c\ost#               / 
11 1  32 5300 1 1 c    11  but I ^won`t disc\uss 'that#                       / 
11 1  32 5310 1 1 c    11  for the ^m\oment# - -                              / 
11 1  32 5320 1 1 a    11  mi^l=ord#                                          / 
11 1  32 5330 1 1 a    11  of ^c/ourse#                                       / 
11 1  32 5340 1 1 a    11  there ^is an!\other m/atter#                       / 
11 1  33 5350 1 1 a    11  which your ^lordship !m\ay think#                  / 
11 1  33 5360 1 1 a    11  "^m\ight h/elp# .                                  / 
11 1  33 5370 1 2 a    11  is that . that . ^as 'I was re:ceiving as"!s\ent in/ 
11 1  33 5370 1 1 a    11  'cross-ex'amination#                               / 
11 1  33 5380 1 1 a    11  ^I wasn`t /anxious#                                / 
11 1  33 5390 1 1 a    11  to ^get [dhi] . 'medical . "!c\ards#               / 
11 1  33 5400 1 1 a    11  ^from the !m\inistry# .                            / 
11 1  33 5410 1 1 a    11  ^which re!v\ealed {ap^p\arently#}#                 / 
11 1  33 5420 1 1 a    11  or ^w\ould have#                                   / 
11 1  33 5430 1 1 a    11  ac^cording to the d/octor# .                       / 
11 1  33 5440 1 1 a    11  the ^t\imes# - - -                                 / 
11 1  33 5450 1 1 a    11  and ^these !m\essages# -                           / 
11 1  33 5460 1 1 c    11  well the ^d\octor#                                 / 
11 1  33 5470 1 1 c    11  wasn`t ^ch\allenged *{^y\ou 'say#}#*               / 
11 1  33 5480 2 1 c    21  but ^I shall !want                                 / 
11 1  33 5490 1 1 a    11  *^n\o#* -                                          / 
11 1  33 5500 1 1 a    11  ^n\o mi_lord# .                                    / 
11 1  33 5480 1 1(c    11  to go :\into 'this# - -                            / 
11 1  33 5510 1 1 c    11  let`s ^take 'one thing at a t\ime# - - -           / 
11 1  34 5520 1 1 a    11  mi^l=ord#                                          / 
11 1  34 5530 1 1 a    11  ^may I . \answer#                                  / 
11 1  34 5540 1 1 a    11  "^one . m\atter#                                   / 
11 1  34 5550 1 1 a    11  to ^help your l/ordship# .                         / 
11 1  34 5560 1 1 a    11  I ^told your l/ordship#                            / 
11 1  34 5570 1 1 a    11  that ^we were [s] . !f\urnished#                   / 
11 1  34 5580 1 1 a    11  ^w\ith these st/atements#                          / 
11 1  34 5590 1 1 a    11  and that I ^checked the ex!\act 'date#             / 
11 1  34 5600 1 1 a    11  but it was ^many m\onths a'go# *.*                 / 
11 1  34 5610 1 1 c    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  34 5620 1 2(a    11  it in ^fact 'is [dhi] . !third of De'cember        / 
11 1  34 5620 1 1(a    11  :nineteen 'sixty-f\ive# - -                        / 
11 1  34 5630 1 1 c    21  ^third of .                                        / 
11 1  34 5640 1 1 a    11  De^c\em*ber#*                                      / 
11 1  34 5650 1 1 c    11  *De*^c\ember#                                      / 
11 1  35 5660 1 1 a    11  mi^lord y\es#                                      / 
11 1  35 5670 1 1 a    11  ^nineteen 'sixty-!f\ive# - - -                     / 
11 1  35 5680 1 1 a    11  and in^d=eed#                                      / 
11 1  35 5690 1 1 a    11  there ^were !many st/atements#                     / 
11 1  35 5700 2 1 a    22  mi^lord about - - - *.* .                          / 
11 1  35 5710 1 1 ?    20  *((2 sylls))*                                      / 
11 1  35 5700 1 1(a    12  of ^\one of 'which#                                / 
11 1  35 5720 1 1 a    11  was ((a)) ^statement by 'Doctor F\ell# - - -       / 
11 1  35 5730 1 1 a    11  well ^n/ow# - - -                                  / 
11 1  35 5740 1 1 a    11  the ^document you 'have in fr/ont of 'you#         / 
11 1  35 5750 1 1 a    11  is a ^photo . c/opy#                               / 
11 1  35 5760 1 1 a    11  of a ^statement 'sent by :your sol\/icitors#       / 
11 1  35 5770 1 1 a    11  to [dhi] de^f\endant`s so_licitors# .              / 
11 1  35 5780 1 1 a    11  ^had you s\een that#                               / 
11 1  35 5790 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# -                                           / 
11 1  35 5800 1 1 a    11  ^when did you 'first s\ee it# -                    / 
11 1  36 5810 1 1 b    11  well I ^wouldn`t 'like to 'say !wh\/en#            / 
11 1  36 5820 1 1 b    11  but I ^have !s\een it# -                           / 
11 1  36 5830 1 1 a    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  36 5840 1 1 a    11  ^\once# .                                          / 
11 1  36 5850 1 1 a    11  put it ^this [w=eis]# .                            / 
11 1  36 5860 1 1 a    11  be^f\ore {this ^tr\ial {^st\arted#}#}# .           / 
11 1  36 5870 1 1 b    11  ^oh y\es#                                          / 
11 1  36 5880 1 1 a    11  some ^m\onths a'go#                                / 
11 1  36 5890 1 1 b    11  ^some m\onths ag/o#                                / 
11 1  36 5900 1 1 b    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  36 5910 1 1 a    11  *and* "^y\ou 'knew th/en# .                        / 
11 1  36 5920 1 1 a    11  that the ^doctor was s/aying# -                    / 
11 1  36 5930 1 1 a    11  that ^your 'mother ph/oned 'him#                   / 
11 1  36 5940 1 1 a    11  on ^that 'very !S\unday# .                         / 
11 1  36 5950 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# .                                           / 
11 1  36 5960 1 1 a    11  the ^Sunday the !w\ill was 'made#                  / 
11 1  37 5970 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  37 5980 1 1 b    21  and I ^*told*                                      / 
11 1  37 5990 1 1(a    11  *a^bout* 'three o`!cl\ock# .                       / 
11 1  37 6000 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  37 6010 1 1 a    11  at a ^t\ime#                                       / 
11 1  37 6020 1 1 a    11  when ^you were 'in the !h\ouse#                    / 
11 1  37 6030 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# -                                           / 
11 1  37 6040 1 1 a    11  and that ^he was . s/aying#                        / 
11 1  37 6050 1 1 a    11  her ^speech _seemed !sl\urred#                     / 
11 1  37 6060 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# - -                                         / 
11 1  37 6070 1 1 b    11  and I ^t\old my so:l=icitor#                       / 
11 1  37 6080 1 1 b    11  that ^this was !wr\ong# .                          / 
11 1  37 6090 1 1 a    11  you ^d\id#                                         / 
11 1  37 6100 1 1 b    11  "^y\es# - -                                        / 
11 1  37 6110 1 1 b    11  I ^d\id# .                                         / 
11 1  37 6120 1 1 b    11  ^at the !t\ime# - - -                              / 
11 1  37 6130 1 1 b    11  and ^so did my !w\ife#                             / 
11 1  37 6140 1 1 b    11  because my "^w\ife _phoned the _doctor# - - -      / 
11 1  37 6150 1 1 b    12  ^and that !he she ^phoned the d/octor#             / 
11 1  38 6160 1 1 b    11  ^at my 'mother`s re!qu\est# - -                    / 
11 1  38 6170 1 1 a    11  ^did you _kn\ow# .                                 / 
11 1  38 6180 1 1 a    11  that the ^doctor had t\old# - -                    / 
11 1  38 6190 1 1 a    11  ^Mr Sp\ackman# .                                   / 
11 1  38 6200 1 1 a    11  the ^day !\after [dhi]# -                          / 
11 1  38 6210 1 1 a    11  ^f\/uneral# -                                      / 
11 1  38 6220 1 1 a    11  that your ^m\other# .                              / 
11 1  38 6230 1 1 a    11  ^was in 'his o'pinion dr\unk# - -                  / 
11 1  38 6240 1 1 a    11  at ^three o`clock in the /afternoon#               / 
11 1  38 6250 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# .                                            / 
11 1  38 6260 1 1 b    11  I ^don`t think the 'doctor !s\aid that# - - -      / 
11 1  38 6270 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 1  38 6280 1 2 a    12  ( . coughs) no ^doubt [dhi] . my ^l\/ord will      / 
11 1  38 6280 1 1 a    12  'have# .                                           / 
11 1  38 6290 1 1 a    11  the ex^act 'words of the d/octor#                  / 
11 1  38 6300 1 1 a    11  but ^my recoll/ection is#                          / 
11 1  38 6310 1 1 a    11  that he a^gr/\eed# .                               / 
11 1  38 6320 1 1 a    11  that he ^had !s\aid 'words#                        / 
11 1  38 6330 1 1 a    11  to ^that eff/ect# -                                / 
11 1  39 6340 1 1 a    11  ^to Mr Sp/ackman#                                  / 
11 1  39 6350 1 1 a    11  the ^day !after the !f\uneral# - - -               / 
11 1  39 6360 1 1 a    11  mi^lord I !h\aven`t a n=ote#                       / 
11 1  39 6370 1 2 a    11  but I ^have a 'recol'lection of "!p\utting it {to  / 
11 1  39 6370 1 1 a    11  ((the *^d\octor))#}#*                              / 
11 1  39 6380 1 1 c    11  *((oh* ^y\es#                                      / 
11 1  39 6390 1 1 c    12  from ^what [@])) ^my 'note is :th\is# .            / 
11 1  39 6400 1 1 c    11  I ^saw Mr Sp\ackman#                               / 
11 1  39 6410 1 1 c    11  the ^day 'after the f\/uneral# *-*                 / 
11 1  39 6420 2 1 c    21  I ^don`t re'call                                   / 
11 1  39 6430 1 1 ?    11  *((^y=es#))*                                       / 
11 1  39 6420 1 1(c    11  s\aying#                                           / 
11 1  39 6440 1 2 c    11  that the de^ceased was 'drinking for !three        / 
11 1  39 6440 1 1 c    11  "!d\/ays# -                                        / 
11 1  39 6450 1 1 c    11  I ^s\aid# .                                        / 
11 1  39 6460 1 1 c    11  ^on - !S\/unday#                                   / 
11 1  39 6470 1 1 c    11  that ^she - 'had dr\unk#                           / 
11 1  39 6480 1 1 c    11  or ^was dr/unk# .                                  / 
11 1  39 6490 1 1 c    11  and . [@] . ^couldn`t . 'make a 'will :th\en# - - -/ 
11 1  40 6500 1 1 c    11  ^this ((is)) the 'doctor`s /evi*dence#*            / 
11 1  40 6510 1 2 a    11  *[j@]* . did you ^know the _doctor had sp\oken to  / 
11 1  40 6510 1 1 a    11  Mr Sp/ackman#                                      / 
11 1  40 6520 1 1 a    11  the ^day after [dhi] - - f/uneral#                 / 
11 1  40 6530 1 1 b    11  [@] ^n\o# .                                        / 
11 1  40 6540 1 1 b    11  at ^l\east#                                        / 
11 1  40 6550 1 1 b    11  I ^don`t rec\all . {^having kn\own so#}# - - -     / 
11 1  40 6560 1 2 c    12  well you ^[hu] did you ^hear his 'evidence         / 
11 1  40 6560 1 1 c    12  *((!y\esterday))#*                                 / 
11 1  40 6570 1 1 b    11  *oh I ^heard* it :y\esterday#                      / 
11 1  40 6580 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  40 6590 1 1 a    11  so he`s ^wrong a'bout :th\at#                      / 
11 1  40 6600 1 1 a    11  as ^w\ell# - -                                     / 
11 1  40 6610 1 1 b    11  ((and)) my ^mother was n\ot {^dr\unk#}# -          / 
11 1  41 6620 1 1 b    11  ^several 'people in the :h\ouse#                   / 
11 1  41 6630 1 1 b    11  will have "^s\aid 'that to you# - - -              / 
11 1  41 6640 1 1 a    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  41 6650 1 1 a    11  you ^say 'several p/eople# .                       / 
11 1  41 6660 1 1 a    11  ^who was 'in the h\ouse#                           / 
11 1  41 6670 1 1 a    11  a^part from 'you and your w\ife# -                 / 
11 1  41 6680 1 1 b    11  [?@ ?@] ((at)) ^which d\ay# .                      / 
11 1  41 6690 1 2 a    11  ^on the time when the :doctor 'says your . 'mother / 
11 1  41 6690 1 1 a    11  was dr\unk# .                                      / 
11 1  41 6700 1 1 a    11  *at ^thr\ee ((o`clock))#*                          / 
11 1  41 6710 1 1 b    11  *^on the !S\/unday#* .                             / 
11 1  41 6720 1 1 a    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  41 6730 1 1 b    11  ((or)) . ^on the !S\unday#                         / 
11 1  41 6740 1 1 a    11  at ^three o`cl\ock# -                              / 
11 1  42 6750 1 1 b    11  [@:] . ^Captain and 'Mrs K/ay#                     / 
11 1  42 6760 1 1 b    11  ^and . 'Miss McC\arthy#                            / 
11 1  42 6770 1 1 a    11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 1  42 6780 1 1 a    11  ^Captain and Mrs K/ay#                             / 
11 1  42 6790 1 1 a    11  ^lived in a . !fl\at#                              / 
11 1  42 6800 1 1 a    11  on their ^\own#                                    / 
11 1  42 6810 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# .                                           / 
11 1  42 6820 1 1 a    11  and "^they didn`t c/ome 'down#                     / 
11 1  42 6830 1 1 a    11  un^til . !after !t\ea#                             / 
11 1  42 6840 1 1 a    11  ^d\id 'they# .                                     / 
11 1  42 6850 1 1 b    11  ^n/o# .                                            / 
11 1  42 6860 1 1 a    11  ^some time be'tween !tea and !ch\urch# .           / 
11 1  42 6870 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# -                                           / 
11 1  42 6880 1 1 a    11  ^s=o#                                              / 
11 1  42 6890 1 1 a    11  ( . coughs) - there`s ^only . \/Elsie#             / 
11 1  42 6900 1 1 a    11  and ^your !w\ife#                                  / 
11 1  43 6910 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  43 6920 1 1 a    11  did you ^{s/ee} a gl/ass#                          / 
11 1  43 6930 1 1 a    11  ^near [dhi] br/andy 'bottle# - - -                 / 
11 1  43 6940 1 1 b    11  ^mother h\ad# .                                    / 
11 1  43 6950 1 1 b    11  ^one or tw\o 'medicine gl/asses#                   / 
11 1  43 6960 1 2 b    13  on the ^s\ide . of 'her - ((a^bout)) on a .        / 
11 1  43 6960 1 1 b    13  ^t\able#                                           / 
11 1  43 6970 1 1 b    11  by the ^side of her b\ed# - - -                    / 
11 1  43 6980 1 1 a    11  ^did you "!\offer her br/andy#                     / 
11 1  43 6990 1 1 b    11  ^{n\o} I did n\ot# - - -                           / 
11 1  43 7000 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow#                                             / 
11 1  43 7010 1 1 a    11  ( - - coughs) - - - she ^s\igned the w/ill# .      / 
11 1  43 7020 1 1 a    11  ^did . !that . 'tire her \out# - - -               / 
11 1  43 7030 1 1 b    11  ^n/\o# .                                           / 
11 1  43 7040 1 1 b    11  it ^d\idn`t#                                       / 
11 1  43 7050 1 1 b    11  [@] in ^fact !\after she s/igned#                  / 
11 1  43 7060 1 1 b    11  ^she - [@:] !talked to Mrs K/ay# .                 / 
11 1  44 7070 1 1 b    11  [@:m - ?] she ^s\aid that# .                       / 
11 1  44 7080 1 2 b    11  [?:] that . we were ^going to 'get her into a      / 
11 1  44 7080 1 1 b    11  :n/ursing-'home# .                                 / 
11 1  44 7090 1 1 b    11  [@:m] - - she ^spoke a'bout her h/air# - - -       / 
11 1  44 7100 1 1 b    11  I re^member !th\/ose#                              / 
11 1  44 7110 1 1 b    11  *dis^t\inctly#*                                    / 
11 1  44 7120 1 1 a    11  *^after* you`d 'read it :\over to h/er# .          / 
11 1  44 7130 1 1 a    11  ^that`s [@z] a'bout 'half past "!tw\o# .           / 
11 1  44 7140 1 1 a    11  she ^had a !r\est# .                               / 
11 1  44 7150 1 1 a    11  ^d/idn`t she#                                      / 
11 1  44 7160 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  44 7170 1 1 b    11  we ^b\oth 'had a 'rest#                            / 
11 1  44 7180 1 1 b    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  44 7190 1 1 a    11  *what* she ^went to sl\eep#                        / 
11 1  44 7200 1 1 a    11  ^d/id she#                                         / 
11 1  44 7210 1 1 b    11  she ^went to sl\eep#                               / 
11 1  44 7220 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  44 7230 1 1 a    11  for a^bout !two h\ours#                            / 
11 1  44 7240 1 1 b    11  ^well n\o#                                         / 
11 1  44 7250 1 1 b    11  she ^d\idn`t# .                                    / 
11 1  44 7260 1 1 b    11  she ^didn`t sl\eep all the t/ime#                  / 
11 1  45 7270 1 1 b    11  ^we 'sort of d\/ozed#                              / 
11 1  45 7280 1 1 b    11  and . ^t\alked#                                    / 
11 1  45 7290 1 1 b    11  and ^d\/ozed# -                                    / 
11 1  45 7300 1 1 b    11  un^til we had t\ea# -                              / 
11 1  45 7310 1 2 b    11  till my ^wife 'brought us some :tea a'gain         / 
11 1  45 7310 1 1 b    11  a"!b\out# - -                                      / 
11 1  45 7320 1 1 b    11  oh ^I don`t kn\ow#                                 / 
11 1  45 7330 1 1 b    11  ^half past f/our or 'so# - - -                     / 
11 1  45 7340 1 1 a    11  and [@] ^you went :up to 'Captain K/ay# -          / 
11 1  45 7350 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  45 7360 1 1 a    11  ^he of c=ourse is# .                               / 
11 1  45 7370 1 1 a    11  ^hard of h\earing#                                 / 
11 1  45 7380 1 1 a    11  ^\isn`t he#                                        / 
11 1  45 7390 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# -                                           / 
11 1  45 7400 1 1 a    11  and him^s\elf#                                     / 
11 1  45 7410 1 1 a    11  ( - coughs) . ^not very "!f\/irm# - - -            / 
11 1  45 7420 1 1 a    11  in him^s\elf# - -                                  / 
11 1  46 7430 1 1 b    11  [@m] - ^by not . very f\irm# -                     / 
11 1  46 7440 1 1 a    11  [@] he`s he`s a ^fr\ail old 'gentleman# .          / 
11 1  46 7450 1 1 b    11  ^\oh 'well#                                        / 
11 1  46 7460 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  46 7470 1 1 b    12  he`s ^[@u?] he`s ^\/old#                           / 
11 1  46 7480 1 1 b    11  he`s ^{\eighty years} !\old# - -                   / 
11 1  46 7490 1 1 a    11  ^s=ee# - - -                                       / 
11 1  46 7500 1 1 a    11  the ^old l\/ady#                                   / 
11 1  46 7510 1 1 a    11  your ^m\other#                                     / 
11 1  46 7520 1 1 a    11  ^did !not \ask# - -                                / 
11 1  46 7530 1 1 a    11  the ^K\ays#                                        / 
11 1  46 7540 1 1 a    11  to ^witness her s/ignature#                        / 
11 1  46 7550 1 1 a    11  ^d\id she# -                                       / 
11 1  46 7560 1 1 b    11  ^yes she d\id# .                                   / 
11 1  46 7570 1 1 a    11  ^d/id 'she#                                        / 
11 1  46 7580 1 1 b    11  ^yes she d\id# - -                                 / 
11 1  46 7590 1 1 b    11  I`m ^s\ure she 'did# - .                           / 
11 1  46 7600 1 1 b    11  I`m ^sure she [sh\ed]# .                           / 
11 1  46 7610 1 1 b    11  ^s\aid#                                            / 
11 1  46 7620 1 1 b    11  to ^Mrs K/ay# .                                    / 
11 1  46 7630 1 2 b    11  I ^want you to 'witness my . 'signature to 'my     / 
11 1  46 7630 1 1 b    11  w\ill# .                                           / 
11 1  47 7640 1 1 b    11  I`m - I`m "^c\/ertain#                             / 
11 1  47 7650 1 1 b    11  that she ^said those w\ords# -                     / 
11 1  47 7660 1 1 a    11  very ^g/ood#                                       / 
11 1  47 7670 1 1 a    11  ^are you !c/ertain#                                / 
11 1  47 7680 1 1 a    11  that [@] - she ^s\aid#                             / 
11 1  47 7690 1 2 a    12  I`m ^going [t] ^after she`d - 'done "!\one [s] 'lot/ 
11 1  47 7690 1 1 a    12  of s/ignatures#                                    / 
11 1  47 7700 1 1 a    11  I`m ^g\oing to 'do it ag/ain#                      / 
11 1  47 7710 1 1 a    11  as I ^don`t 'want there to 'be any tr\ouble# .     / 
11 1  47 7720 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  47 7730 1 1 b    11  ^th=at#                                            / 
11 1  47 7740 1 1 b    11  ^mother d\id say# - - -                            / 
11 1  47 7750 1 1 a    11  ^did she . 'speak . very m/uch# .                  / 
11 1  47 7760 1 1 a    11  ^wh=en#                                            / 
11 1  47 7770 1 2 a    11  she was ^making . her 'signature on the            / 
11 1  47 7770 1 1 a    11  w/ill# - - -                                       / 
11 1  47 7780 1 1 b    11  ^n/o# -                                            / 
11 1  47 7790 1 1 b    11  she was ^s\igning it# .                            / 
11 1  47 7800 1 2 b    11  she . she ^spoke a'bout her :p\en . not            / 
11 1  47 7800 1 1 b    11  w/orking# - -                                      / 
11 1  48 7810 1 1 b    12  ^and [@:] - but she ^still 'used the :same !p\/en# / 
11 1  48 7820 1 1 b    11  there ^wasn`t an'other 'pen prod\uced# - - -       / 
11 1  48 7830 1 1 a    11  [dhi:] ^Captain K\ay# - -                          / 
11 1  48 7840 1 1 a    11  or ^\Mrs K/ay# - -                                 / 
11 1  48 7850 1 1 a    11  ^signed [dhi] . :d\/ocument# -                     / 
11 1  48 7860 1 1 a    11  a^bout . "!\eight m/onths#                         / 
11 1  48 7870 1 1 a    11  ^after [dhi:] . w\ill#                             / 
11 1  48 7880 1 1 a    11  had been ^w\itnessed#                              / 
11 1  48 7890 1 1 a    11  ^by !h\er# .                                       / 
11 1  48 7900 1 1 a    11  ^d\idn`t she# -                                    / 
11 1  48 7910 1 1 b    12  ^[sae] ^signed 'what d\ocument# .                  / 
11 1  48 7920 1 1 a    11  a ^d\/ocument# .                                   / 
11 1  48 7930 1 1 a    11  [s] . ^which . had been "!t\yped#                  / 
11 1  48 7940 1 1 a    11  and ^sent to h/er#                                 / 
11 1  48 7950 1 1 a    11  ^by . !your s\ister# - -                           / 
11 1  48 7960 1 1 b    11  well ^if you !s\ay s/o#                            / 
11 1  49 7970 1 1 a    21  well ^that`s . *((2 to 3 sylls))*                  / 
11 1  49 7980 1 1 c    11  *((well))* ^have a !l\ook at it# .                 / 
11 1  49 7990 1 1 a    11  ^you s/aw it 'didn`t you# - - -                    / 
11 1  49 8000 1 1 c    11  ^better sh\ow it _him# - - -                       / 
11 1  49 8010 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  49 8020 1 1 b    11  I ^did see a :photostat !c\opy of th/is#           / 
11 1  49 8030 1 1 a    11  ^that`s r/ight# .                                  / 
11 1  49 8040 1 1 a    11  ^quite r/ight# - - -                               / 
11 1  49 8050 1 1 a    11  you ^saw a 'photostat :c\opy of th/at#             / 
11 1  49 8060 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow#                                             / 
11 1  49 8070 1 1 a    12  ( - coughs) - ^if !your - would you ^t\urn 'to# .  / 
11 1  49 8080 1 1 a    11  [dhi] ^last p\age# -                               / 
11 1  49 8090 1 1 a    11  [dhi] - ^s\econd 'page of th/at 'please# - - -     / 
11 1  49 8100 1 1 a    11  ^there is some !t\yped p/art# *.*                  / 
11 1  49 8110 1 1 a    11  ^h\alf-way down the 'page#                         / 
11 1  50 8120 1 1 b    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  50 8130 1 1(a    11  ^mother hers\elf# - -                              / 
11 1  50 8140 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# .                                           / 
11 1  50 8150 1 1 a    11  ^f/ollow# .                                        / 
11 1  50 8160 1 1 a    11  ^that is . an :\extract#                           / 
11 1  50 8170 1 1 a    11  from ^your - - st\/atement# .                      / 
11 1  50 8180 1 1 a    11  sup^pl=ied#                                        / 
11 1  50 8190 1 1 a    11  ^to [dhi] . de!fendant`s so:l\icitors#             / 
11 1  50 8200 1 1 a    11  ^\isn`t it#                                        / 
11 1  50 8210 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  50 8220 1 1 b    11  it ^/is# .                                         / 
11 1  50 8230 1 1 a    11  ^m\other her'self#                                 / 
11 1  50 8240 1 1 a    11  ^\asked 'Captain and /Mrs 'Kay#                    / 
11 1  50 8250 1 1 a    11  to ^w\itness her s/ignature#                       / 
11 1  50 8260 1 1 a    11  she ^got her "/\own 'pen out of her h/andbag#      / 
11 1  50 8270 1 1 a    11  ^this wouldn`t w/ork 'properly#                    / 
11 1  50 8280 1 1 a    11  the ^f=irst time#                                  / 
11 1  50 8290 1 1 a    11  and ^mother 'signed ag=ain# .                      / 
11 1  51 8300 1 1 a    11  ^going 'off the 'edge of the p\age#                / 
11 1  51 8310 1 1 a    11  ^mother "!th\/en 'said#                            / 
11 1  51 8320 1 1 a    11  I`m ^going to 'do it a":g\ain#                     / 
11 1  51 8330 1 1 a    11  as I ^don`t 'want there to be any "!tr\ouble# *.*  / 
11 1  51 8340 1 1 a    11  I be^lieve it was th\en#                           / 
11 1  51 8350 1 1 b    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  51 8360 1 1 a    11  and ^s\o on# - -                                   / 
11 1  51 8370 1 1 a    11  ((you)) see the ^\answer# -                        / 
11 1  51 8380 1 1 a    11  ^signed by :\Mrs K/ay#                             / 
11 1  51 8390 1 1 a    11  is ^Mrs . Sk/itt#                                  / 
11 1  51 8400 1 1 a    11  did "^n\ot 'ask us#                                / 
11 1  51 8410 1 1 a    11  to ^witness her !s\ignature# -                     / 
11 1  51 8420 1 2 a    11  so . her ^recollection in De:cember 'nineteen      / 
11 1  51 8420 1 1 a    11  'sixty-f/our# .                                    / 
11 1  51 8430 1 1 a    11  is ^wr\ong /is 'it# - .                            / 
11 1  51 8440 1 1 a    11  on ^that /aspect# - -                              / 
11 1  52 8450 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  52 8460 1 1 b    11  it ^\is#                                           / 
11 1  52 8470 1 1 b    11  be^cause I`m !c\ertain#                            / 
11 1  52 8480 1 1 b    11  that my ^mother !d\id 'ask# .                      / 
11 1  52 8490 1 1 b    11  ^Mrs *K/ay#*                                       / 
11 1  52 8500 1 1 a    11  *((^very g/ood#))* -                               / 
11 1  52 8510 1 1 a    11  ^she had !difficulty in :wr\iting#                 / 
11 1  52 8520 1 1 a    11  with the ^f\irst 'pen#                             / 
11 1  52 8530 1 1 a    11  and ^therefore was 'given an!\other 'one# .        / 
11 1  52 8540 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  52 8550 1 1 b    11  well ^th/at`s 'not tr\ue# .                        / 
11 1  52 8560 1 1 a    11  ^th/at`s 'not tr\ue#                               / 
11 1  52 8570 1 1 a    11  ^\either#                                          / 
11 1  52 8580 1 1 b    11  she ^wasn`t 'given an/other 'pen#                  / 
11 1  52 8590 1 1 b    11  she ^used her !own 'pen through\out# .             / 
11 1  52 8600 1 1 a    11  ^d/\id she#                                        / 
11 1  52 8610 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# -                                           / 
11 1  52 8620 1 1 b    11  there ^was t\alk#                                  / 
11 1  52 8630 1 1 b    11  of ^Captain K\ay#                                  / 
11 1  53 8640 1 1 b    11  ^going upst\airs and 'getting a p/en#              / 
11 1  53 8650 1 1 b    11  and ^m\other _said# -                              / 
11 1  53 8660 1 1 b    11  [@] ^s\omething a'bout#                            / 
11 1  53 8670 1 1 b    11  ^no !this will 'be all r\ight# - -                 / 
11 1  53 8680 1 2 b    12  but she [h] . she ^had . if you ^{l\ook} at the    / 
11 1  53 8680 1 1 b    12  :d\ocument#                                        / 
11 1  53 8690 1 1 b    11  the ^will that she :s\/igned#                      / 
11 1  53 8700 1 1 b    12  you`ll ^s\ee - the ^first s\ignature# .            / 
11 1  53 8710 1 1 b    12  it`s the ^ink has ^hasn`t come 'out very w\ell# .  / 
11 1  53 8720 1 1 b    11  I ^m=ean#                                          / 
11 1  53 8730 1 1 b    12  ^there [h] the ^pen wasn`t :w\orking 'properly#    / 
11 1  53 8740 1 1 b    11  but it ^d\id w/ork#                                / 
11 1  53 8750 1 1 b    11  ^\afterwards# -                                    / 
11 1  53 8760 1 2 b    11  it was a ^question of :getting the !\ink to        / 
11 1  53 8760 1 1 b    11  'flow# - .                                         / 
11 1  53 8770 1 1 a    12  so that ^[thi] it`s the ^s/ame#                    / 
11 1  53 8780 1 1 a    11  ^p/en# .                                           / 
11 1  54 8790 1 1 a    11  ^through!\out#                                     / 
11 1  54 8800 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  54 8810 1 1 b    11  it`s the ^same 'pen through\out#                   / 
11 1  54 8820 1 1 a    11  and it`s "^h\er 'pen {^through\out#}#              / 
11 1  54 8830 1 1 b    11  it was "^h\er 'pen through'out#                    / 
11 1  54 8840 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# -                                           / 
11 1  54 8850 1 1 a    11  ^so ag/\ain#                                       / 
11 1  54 8860 1 1 a    11  ^Mrs K/ay#                                         / 
11 1  54 8870 1 1 a    11  is ^wr/ong# .                                      / 
11 1  54 8880 1 1 a    11  ^in !th\is# .                                      / 
11 1  54 8890 1 1 a    11  ^let`s just 'read \on# .                           / 
11 1  54 8900 1 1 a    11  she did ^n\ot s/ay#                                / 
11 1  54 8910 1 1 a    11  I`m ^going to 'do it ag/ain#                       / 
11 1  54 8920 1 1 a    11  as I ^don`t 'want there to 'be any !tr\ouble# .    / 
11 1  54 8930 1 1 a    11  is she ^wr/ong in th\at#                           / 
11 1  54 8940 1 1 b    11  [? sh wi sh] ^y/es#                                / 
11 1  54 8950 2 1 b    21  I would *^take it*                                 / 
11 1  54 8960 1 1 a    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  54 8950 1 1(b    11  that she 'didn`t . [rek] . rem/ember 'it#          / 
11 1  54 8970 1 1 b    11  but ^that`s what :mother :s\/aid# .                / 
11 1  55 8980 1 1 a    11  she ^hardly !sp\oke#                               / 
11 1  55 8990 1 1 a    11  is she ^wr/ong#                                    / 
11 1  55 9000 1 1 a    11  or ^right th\ere# -                                / 
11 1  55 9010 1 1 b    11  she`s ^wr\ong {th\ere#}#                           / 
11 1  55 9020 1 1 b    11  she ^d\id 'speak to Mrs K/ay#                      / 
11 1  55 9030 1 1 b    11  she ^sp=oke# -                                     / 
11 1  55 9040 1 1 b    11  ^quite a b\it to her#                              / 
11 1  55 9050 1 1 b    11  ((e))s^pecially !{\after} she`d :s\igned it#       / 
11 1  55 9060 1 1 a    11  then ^only !one 'copy of the :w\ill was s/igned#   / 
11 1  55 9070 1 1 a    11  and - ^w\itnessed#                                 / 
11 1  55 9080 1 1 b    11  well ^that we :know she`s wr\ong# - - -            / 
11 1  55 9090 1 1 a    11  ^just !look at the - - ":\earlier {^p\ara'graph#}# / 
11 1  55 9100 1 1 a    11  ^ex'tracted from :your st/atement# -               / 
11 1  55 9110 1 1 a    11  ^soon 'after :five !th\irty# -                     / 
11 1  55 9120 1 1 a    11  I ^went to see 'Captain and Mrs K/ay#              / 
11 1  56 9130 1 1 a    11  I ^told 'Captain K/ay#                             / 
11 1  56 9140 1 1 a    11  I ^wasn`t 'quite !s\ure#                           / 
11 1  56 9150 1 1 a    11  that ^it was a 'legal d/ocument#                   / 
11 1  56 9160 1 1 a    11  as it ^was only in'tended as a dr\aft#             / 
11 1  56 9170 1 1 a    11  but ^mother 'wanted it !w\itnessed#                / 
11 1  56 9180 1 1 a    11  ^Captain K/ay re'marked#                           / 
11 1  56 9190 1 1 a    11  ^h\e`d 'witnessed a w/ill#                         / 
11 1  56 9200 1 1 a    11  on the ^back of an "!\envelope#                    / 
11 1  56 9210 1 1 a    11  and that . "^that had 'been l/egal# .              / 
11 1  56 9220 1 1 a    11  and ^he and Mrs 'Kay 'came in to my m\other# - -   / 
11 1  56 9230 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - -                                         / 
11 1  56 9240 1 1 a    11  I ^wasn`t =asked# .                                / 
11 1  56 9250 1 1 a    11  is the ^\answer# .                                 / 
11 1  56 9260 1 1 a    11  ^if it was a !l\egal d/ocument#                    / 
11 1  56 9270 1 1 a    11  and ^never !m\entioned#                            / 
11 1  56 9280 1 1 a    11  having ^witnessed a w/ill on an !\envelope#        / 
11 1  57 9290 1 1 a    11  ^had I d/one 'so#                                  / 
11 1  57 9300 1 1 a    11  it ^would have 'been a l\ie# -                     / 
11 1  57 9310 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  57 9320 1 1 b    11  I ^think pr\/obably# -                             / 
11 1  57 9330 1 1 b    11  [@:] ^what !Captain K\ay# .                        / 
11 1  57 9340 1 1 b    11  [s] . ^must have !s\aid w/as# -                    / 
11 1  57 9350 1 1 b    11  a ^will is :l\/egal#                               / 
11 1  57 9360 1 2 b    11  if it`s "^w\itnessed {on the ^back of an           / 
11 1  57 9360 1 1 b    11  \envelope#}# - - -                                 / 
11 1  57 9370 1 1 a    11  [w] ^did !he s/ay#                                 / 
11 1  57 9380 1 1 a    11  that ^he had p\ersonally w/itnessed one#           / 
11 1  57 9390 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  57 9400 1 1 b    11  I ^could have b\een#                               / 
11 1  57 9410 1 1 b    11  I ^could have been :wr\ong th/ere# -               / 
11 1  57 9420 1 1 b    11  [@] by ^s\aying#                                   / 
11 1  57 9430 1 1 b    11  ^I !thought he 'said h/e 'had#                     / 
11 1  57 9440 1 1 b    11  but he ^may have 'said a :w\ill# - .               / 
11 1  58 9450 1 1 b    11  ^witnessed on the 'back of an \envelope was l/egal#/ 
11 1  58 9460 1 1 a    11  "^n=ow#                                            / 
11 1  58 9470 1 1 a    11  (coughs - - ) - ^when she s\igned the w/ills# -    / 
11 1  58 9480 1 1 a    11  ^was !she 'writing with the 'will on a tr\ay# - -  / 
11 1  58 9490 1 1 b    11  ^when she "!f\irst s/igned# .                      / 
11 1  58 9500 1 1 b    11  she ^had it on a "l\ibrary 'book# .                / 
11 1  58 9510 1 1 a    11  ^y/es# .                                           / 
11 1  58 9520 1 1 b    11  and [@] - - ^/\after she 'went off the 'page#      / 
11 1  58 9530 1 1 b    11  I ^think it was :Mrs K\/ay#                        / 
11 1  58 9540 1 1 b    11  who sug"^g\ested# -                                / 
11 1  58 9550 1 1 b    11  that she should ^have a tr\ay# .                   / 
11 1  58 9560 1 1 b    11  and . and - [?@] ^put it on a 'tray !f\or 'her# .  / 
11 1  59 9570 1 1 a    11  well ^n=ow#                                        / 
11 1  59 9580 1 1 a    11  she ^signed !four t\imes#                          / 
11 1  59 9590 1 1 a    11  ^d\idn`t 'she# -                                   / 
11 1  59 9600 1 1 b    11  [@m] - - she ^signed the 'first one :thr\ee 'times#/ 
11 1  59 9610 1 1 a    11  ^y/es# .                                           / 
11 1  59 9620 1 1 b    11  [@:] . she ^signed [dhi:] . :top _c\/opy# -        / 
11 1  59 9630 1 1 b    11  [dhi:] ^s\econd 'page I m/ean# -                   / 
11 1  59 9640 1 1 b    11  and she ^signed the :second =one# -                / 
11 1  59 9650 1 1 b    11  ^tw\ice# - - -                                     / 
11 1  59 9660 1 1 a    11  ((are)) you ^sure a'bout !th/at# .                 / 
11 1  59 9670 1 1 b    11  [ang] ^y/es#                                       / 
11 1  59 9680 1 1 b    11  *((^/obviously#                                    / 
11 1  59 9690 1 1 b    20  because))*                                         / 
11 1  59 9700 1 1 a    11  *^y/es# .                                          / 
11 1  59 9710 1 1 a    11  ^once* on the fr\ont 'page you m/ean#              / 
11 1  59 9720 1 1 a    11  *((and)) ^once* on the s\econd#                    / 
11 1  59 9730 1 1 b    11  *^y/es#*                                           / 
11 1  59 9740 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  60 9750 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow# .                                           / 
11 1  60 9760 1 1 a    11  (coughs . ) - ^when w\as it#                       / 
11 1  60 9770 1 1 a    11  that she . ^ch\anged#                              / 
11 1  60 9780 1 1 a    11  from . ^having the !l\ibrary 'book#                / 
11 1  60 9790 1 1 a    11  to ^having the !tr\ay# -                           / 
11 1  60 9800 1 1 b    12  [@] ^after [dhi: - @:] ^second . s/ignature#       / 
11 1  60 9810 1 1 b    11  when she ^went off the p\age# -                    / 
11 1  60 9820 1 1 a    11  you ^s=ee# -                                       / 
11 1  60 9830 1 1 a    11  my ^l\ord has 'got a [s]# .                        / 
11 1  60 9840 1 1 a    11  a ^s\ample of#                                     / 
11 1  60 9850 1 1 a    11  a ^l\etter#                                        / 
11 1  60 9860 1 1 a    11  that ^sh\e 'wrote#                                 / 
11 1  60 9870 1 1 a    11  to ^your !s\ister#                                 / 
11 1  60 9880 1 1 a    11  ^dated the !twenty-_fourth of !J\anuary# .         / 
11 1  60 9890 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  60 9900 1 1 a    12  perhaps ^you could . ^y\ou`d 'look#                / 
11 1  60 9910 1 1 a    11  at the o^r\iginal of 'that for a :m/inute# - -     / 
11 1  61 9920 1 1 c    11  I ^don`t 'know who`s g\ot it#                      / 
11 1  61 9930 1 1 c    20  I`ve got a *((2 to 3 sylls))*                      / 
11 1  61 9940 1 1 a    11  *^got a* ![k\oi]#                                  / 
11 1  61 9950 1 1 a    11  but **.** the ((as^s\ociate#)) -                   / 
11 1  61 9960 1 1 c    11  **^\all 'right#**                                  / 
11 1  61 9970 1 1 c    11  ((^y\eah#)) - - -                                  / 
11 1  61 9980 1 1 a    11  well ^n=ow# .                                      / 
11 1  61 9990 1 1 a    11  ^this - - - is the l/etter#                        / 
11 1  6110000 1 1 a    11  which . ^you were {/asked} about y/esterday#       / 
11 1  6110010 1 1 a    11  ^that`s your :mother`s h\and_writing#              / 
11 1  6110020 1 1 a    11  ^\isn`t 'it#                                       / 
11 1  6110030 1 1 b    11  ^yes it /is# .                                     / 
11 1  6110040 1 1 a    11  a ^fair s/ample 'of it# .                          / 
11 1  6110050 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - -                                         / 
11 1  6110060 1 1 a    11  a ^strong 'firm !h\and# - -                        / 
11 1  6110070 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  6210080 1 1 a    11  can ^you acc\ount#                                 / 
11 1  6210090 1 1 a    11  for the ^f\act#                                    / 
11 1  6210100 1 1 a    11  that [dhi] ^signatures on the :w\/ills#            / 
11 1  6210110 1 1 a    11  the ^f\ive s/ignatures# -                          / 
11 1  6210120 1 1 a    11  are ^so sh\aky#                                    / 
11 1  6210130 1 1 a    11  in com^parison to the h\and# .                     / 
11 1  6210140 1 1 a    11  ^shown in that l/etter# .                          / 
11 1  6210150 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 1  6210160 1 1 b    11  ^I would !s\ay#                                    / 
11 1  6210170 1 1 b    11  it was be^cause !m\other# .                        / 
11 1  6210180 1 1 b    11  was ^in b/ed#                                      / 
11 1  6210190 1 1 b    11  for ^/one 'thing#                                  / 
11 1  6210200 1 1 b    11  and ^she`d 'been /ill#                             / 
11 1  6210210 1 1 b    11  ^and 'she was !w/eak# -                            / 
11 1  6210220 1 2 b    12  [@:m] . but she ^certainly 'know [w] . ^knew 'what / 
11 1  6210220 1 1 b    12  she was !d\/oing#                                  / 
11 1  6210230 1 1 b    11  she was a ^very de'termined w\oman#                / 
11 1  6210240 1 2 a    11  was it be^cause she was re:covering from           / 
11 1  6210240 1 1 a    11  in'toxic/ation# .                                  / 
11 1  6310250 1 1 b    11  ^no it was n\ot# -                                 / 
11 1  6310260 1 1 a    11  she was ^sitting !\up in b/ed#                     / 
11 1  6310270 1 1 b    11  ^y=es#                                             / 
11 1  6310280 1 1 b    11  she ^w\as# -                                       / 
11 1  6310290 1 2 a    11  ^was she in !bed on the 'twenty-'fourth of         / 
11 1  6310290 1 1 a    11  J/anuary# - - -                                    / 
11 1  6310300 1 1 b    11  [@:m] - - - ^n\o# - -                              / 
11 1  6310310 1 1 a    11  ((cos)) ^when she was !\in b/ed#                   / 
11 1  6310320 1 1 a    11  she`d ^got [dhi:] . :tray or a !b\ook#             / 
11 1  6310330 1 1 a    11  as a ^b\/ack'ground#                               / 
11 1  6310340 1 1 a    11  ^h\adn`t she#                                      / 
11 1  6310350 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  6310360 1 1 a    11  and ^you I im/agine#                               / 
11 1  6310370 1 1 a    11  were ^most 'anxious that she was !c\/omfortable#   / 
11 1  6310380 1 1 a    11  be^fore 'letting her :s\ign the 'document# - - -   / 
11 1  6410390 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  6410400 1 2 b    11  ^I !don`t 'know that I :did 'anything -            / 
11 1  6410400 1 1 b    11  spe!c\ifically#                                    / 
11 1  6410410 1 1 b    22  for ^that . to ^that .                             / 
11 1  6410420 1 1 a    11  well ^you weren`t r\/ushing 'it#                   / 
11 1  6410430 1 1 a    11  ^w/ere you# .                                      / 
11 1  6410440 1 1 b    11  ^n/o I w\asn`t#                                    / 
11 1  6410450 1 1 b    11  I was ^standing at the !foot of the !b\ed# - - -   / 
11 1  6410460 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow# .                                           / 
11 1  6410470 1 2 a    11  (coughs - ) - - - ^your !mother had 'made . :thr\ee/ 
11 1  6410470 1 1 a    11  . w/ills#                                          / 
11 1  6410480 1 1 a    11  ^two in 'nineteen 'fifty-n/ine#                    / 
11 1  6410490 1 1 a    11  and ^one in !nineteen 'sixty-\one# -               / 
11 1  6410500 1 1 a    11  at ^l\east#                                        / 
11 1  6410510 1 1 a    11  ^h\adn`t she# -                                    / 
11 1  6510520 1 1 b    11  I`m ^not 'sure of the :two in 'fifty-n\ine#        / 
11 1  6510530 1 1 a    11  ^\I 'see# .                                        / 
11 1  6510540 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell# -                                          / 
11 1  6510550 1 2 a    11  ((let me)) ^try and . 'help you a :l\ittle about   / 
11 1  6510550 1 1 a    11  :th/is#                                            / 
11 1  6510560 1 1 a    11  she ^made one on the :twenty-!f\ifth#              / 
11 1  6510570 1 1 a    11  of ^F\/ebruary#                                    / 
11 1  6510580 1 1 a    11  ^nineteen 'fifty-n\ine#                            / 
11 1  6510590 1 1 a    11  ^d/idn`t 'she# -                                   / 
11 1  6510600 1 1 b    11  ^w=ell#                                            / 
11 1  6510610 1 1 b    11  ^that I 'couldn`t be c\/ertain of#                 / 
11 1  6510620 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# - - -                                        / 
11 1  6510630 1 1 a    11  ^one on the "!th\irtieth#                          / 
11 1  6510640 1 1 a    11  of No^v\ember 'nineteen 'fifty-n/ine# -            / 
11 1  6510650 1 1 b    11  ^th\at I I`m 'not c/ertain of#                     / 
11 1  6510660 1 1 a    11  and ^one - - 'on [dhi] !s\ixteenth of J/une#       / 
11 1  6610670 1 1 a    11  ^nineteen 'sixty-!\one#                            / 
11 1  6610680 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  6610690 1 1 b    11  ^that I d\o know of#                               / 
11 1  6610700 1 1 a    11  ^c\ertainly# .                                     / 
11 1  6610710 1 1 a    11  ( . coughs) - ^those w/ills#                       / 
11 1  6610720 1 1 a    11  were ^made - - - 'by so!l\icitors# .               / 
11 1  6610730 1 1 b    11  ^y=es# -                                           / 
11 1  6610740 1 1 a    11  ^your !!m\other# -                                 / 
11 1  6610750 1 1 a    11  as ^I under!st\and it# .                           / 
11 1  6610760 1 1 a    11  ^t/\old you#                                       / 
11 1  6610770 1 1 a    11  as ^early as - . the !Monday :after Chr\istmas#    / 
11 1  6610780 1 1 a    11  that she ^wanted to :change her af!f\airs#         / 
11 1  6610790 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  6610800 1 1 b    11  she ^d/id#                                         / 
11 1  6610810 1 1 a    11  if your ^evidence is r/ight# .                     / 
11 1  6610820 1 1 a    11  and ^did you !under'stand by th/at#                / 
11 1  6610830 1 1 a    11  that she ^meant !change her !w\ill#                / 
11 1  6710840 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  6710850 1 1 b    11  I ^d/id# - -                                       / 
11 1  6710860 1 1 a    11  ^in !f\act#                                        / 
11 1  6710870 1 1 a    11  it was - a^bout !s\even w/eeks#                    / 
11 1  6710880 1 1 a    11  be^tween !that intim\ation {from your ^m\other#}#  / 
11 1  6710890 1 1 a    11  and the ^date !\of the 'will# - - -                / 
11 1  6710900 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - - -                                       / 
11 1  6710910 1 1 a    11  ^during !wh\ich seven w/eeks# .                    / 
11 1  6710920 1 1 a    11  she had ^two week'ends with y\ou# .                / 
11 1  6710930 1 1 b    11  ^y/es# - .                                         / 
11 1  6710940 1 1 a    11  and ^never 'saw your s/ister# - -                  / 
11 1  6710950 1 1 b    11  ^n=o# -                                            / 
11 1  6710960 1 1 a    11  "^never 'saw her so:l\icitor# -                    / 
11 1  6710970 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# -                                            / 
11 1  6810980 1 1 a    11  ^when 'she 'first m\/entioned it# .                / 
11 1  6810990 1 1 a    11  on the ^Monday after Chr\istmas# -                 / 
11 1  6811000 1 1 a    11  ^did you s\ay to her#                              / 
11 1  6811010 1 1 a    11  ^\oh _well# .                                      / 
11 1  6811020 1 1 a    11  ^m/other#                                          / 
11 1  6811030 1 1 a    11  ^I`ll . ar:range for 'Mr !C\oleman#                / 
11 1  6811040 1 1 a    11  to ^come and s\ee you# .                           / 
11 1  6811050 1 1 b    11  ^n/o#                                              / 
11 1  6811060 1 1 b    11  because I ^didn`t 'know at :that t=ime#            / 
11 1  6811070 1 1 b    11  that Mr ^Coleman was !mother`s so!l\icitor# .      / 
11 1  6811080 1 1 a    11  ^when did you 'learn th\at# -                      / 
11 1  6811090 1 1 b    11  [@] ^when . 'mother :t\old me#                     / 
11 1  6811100 1 1 b    11  to ^go 'out to !s\ee Mr C/oleman#                  / 
11 1  6811110 1 1 b    11  ^after I`d 'seen the !b\ank m/anager# -            / 
11 1  6811120 1 1 b    11  [@:] ^on !M\/onday# -                              / 
11 1  6811130 1 1 b    11  the ^day she 'went into the !n\ursing-'home# - -   / 
11 1  6911140 1 1 a    11  but ^{y\ou} . !s\/aw# .                            / 
11 1  6911150 1 1 a    11  the ^nineteen !sixty-"!\one# -                     / 
11 1  6911160 1 1 a    11  ^w/ill# -                                          / 
11 1  6911170 1 1 a    11  ^very . much :earlier than !th\at#                 / 
11 1  6911180 1 1 a    11  ^d\idn`t you# -                                    / 
11 1  6911190 1 1 b    11  [@] ^y\es#                                         / 
11 1  6911200 1 1 b    11  I I ^s=aw that#                                    / 
11 1  6911210 1 1 b    11  when ^m=other# -                                   / 
11 1  6911220 1 1 b    11  ^asked me to :get it f/or 'her#                    / 
11 1  6911230 1 1 b    12  ^on [dhi: - - @] "![dh@:z . dhi:] . ^S\/unday#     / 
11 1  6911240 1 1 b    11  that I ^went to s/ee her# - - -                    / 
11 1  6911250 1 1 b    11  I ^think it was 'Sunday the - 'eighth or n\inth# . / 
11 1  6911260 1 1 a    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  6911270 1 1 a    11  well ^you 'knew ":th\en#                           / 
11 1  6911280 1 1 a    11  that ^it was a w/ill#                              / 
11 1  6911290 1 1 a    11  pre^pared 'by Mr !C\oleman#                        / 
11 1  6911300 1 1 a    11  the so^licitor at !H\ove# -                        / 
11 1  6911310 1 1 b    12  well I ^didn`t [@] . ^y\es# .                      / 
11 1  6911320 1 3 b    13  I I ^would have 'done if I`d have :read that [@]   / 
11 1  6911320 1 2 b    13  that ^it [w] that ^Mr 'Coleman`s 'name was :\on    / 
11 1  6911320 1 1 b    13  it# - -                                            / 
11 1  7011330 1 1 c    11  "^w\ell# .                                         / 
11 1  7011340 1 1 c    11  ^just have a l\ook at it#                          / 
11 1  7011350 1 2 c    11  I ^don`t want any - misunder:st\andings a'bout     / 
11 1  7011350 1 1 c    11  th/is# - - -                                       / 
11 1  7011360 1 1 c    11  on the "^outs\ide of the w/ill# -                  / 
11 1  7011370 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  7011380 1 1 c    11  the ^n\ame#                                        / 
11 1  7011390 1 1 c    11  Messrs ^C\oleman and 'Co {ap^p\ears#}#             / 
11 1  7011400 1 1 c    11  ^does it n/ot#                                     / 
11 1  7011410 1 1 b    11  it ^d\oes {^y\es#}# -                              / 
11 1  7011420 1 1 c    11  ((and)) ^on the !\/inside# - -                     / 
11 1  7011430 1 1 c    11  it was ^w\itnessed# -                              / 
11 1  7011440 1 1 c    11  ^by Mr !D F 'Coleman :p\/ersonally#                / 
11 1  7111450 1 1 b    11  ^y\es#                                             / 
11 1  7111460 1 1 c    11  and a "^cl\erk {^to [dhi @] 'firm of sol\icitors#}#/ 
11 1  7111470 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  7111480 1 1 c    11  had you ^any d\/oubt#                              / 
11 1  7111490 1 1 c    11  as to ((the)) ^after l\/ooking at it#              / 
11 1  7111500 1 1 c    11  that it ^w=as#                                     / 
11 1  7111510 1 1 c    11  a ^w\/ill# -                                       / 
11 1  7111520 1 1 c    11  ^first of \all#                                    / 
11 1  7111530 1 1 c    11  pre^p\ared by sol/icitors# -                       / 
11 1  7111540 1 1 b    11  ^n/o# .                                            / 
11 1  7111550 1 1 c    11  or ^that [dhi] so!licitors who were conc/erned#    / 
11 1  7111560 1 1 c    11  were ^Messrs C\oleman and C/o#                     / 
11 1  7111570 1 1 c    11  of ^Staines . 'Hounslow and !West !Dr\ayton# .     / 
11 1  7111580 1 1 b    11  ^n=o# .                                            / 
11 1  7211590 1 1 c    11  ((very)) ^w\ell# -                                 / 
11 1  7211600 1 1 a    11  and in^d\eed# .                                    / 
11 1  7211610 1 1 a    11  you ^said you didn`t 'know C\olemans ((1 syll))# . / 
11 1  7211620 1 1 a    11  were your - ^mother`s so!l\/icitors# .             / 
11 1  7211630 1 1 a    11  un^til you 'went to the b\ank#                     / 
11 1  7211640 1 1 a    11  is ^th/at right# .                                 / 
11 1  7211650 1 1 b    11  ^well n\o#                                         / 
11 1  7211660 1 1 b    11  ^mother "!t\old me#                                / 
11 1  7211670 1 1 b    11  that . ^told me to :g=o# .                         / 
11 1  7211680 1 1 b    11  and ^s\/ee#                                        / 
11 1  7211690 1 1 b    11  Mr "^D\avid {^C\oleman#}# - -                      / 
11 1  7211700 1 1 a,c  11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 1  7211710 1 1 b    11  she ^asked me to t=ake# .                          / 
11 1  7211720 1 1 b    11  she ^ph\oned# .                                    / 
11 1  7211730 1 1 b    11  the ^b/ank 'manager# -                             / 
11 1  7211740 1 1 b    11  on [@] ^Monday m\orning# -                         / 
11 1  7211750 1 1 b    11  she ^asked me to :t=ake# .                         / 
11 1  7311760 1 1 b    11  the ^copy of 'her :w\ill# -                        / 
11 1  7311770 1 1 b    12  [@] ^to the . [?@:] - - ^to the b/ank# - -         / 
11 1  7311780 1 2 b    11  and she ^asked me to :ask the 'bank 'manager to    / 
11 1  7311780 1 1 b    11  !read it thr/ough# -                               / 
11 1  7311790 1 1 b    11  because "^I wasn`t :s\/ure#                        / 
11 1  7311800 1 1 b    11  that ^this was a 'legal "!d\ocument#               / 
11 1  7311810 1 1 b    11  it was ^mother`s 'wish to :s\ign it# -             / 
11 1  7311820 1 2 b    11  it was ^mother`s in"!s\istence {that ^she s\igned  / 
11 1  7311820 1 1 b    11  it#}# -                                            / 
11 1  7311830 1 1 b    11  and I ^took it to the 'bank m/anager# -            / 
11 1  7311840 1 1 b    11  he ^read it thr/ough#                              / 
11 1  7311850 1 1 b    11  and ^mother !t\old me#                             / 
11 1  7311860 1 1 b    11  that ^=if# .                                       / 
11 1  7311870 1 1 b    11  ^if there was /any# .                              / 
11 1  7311880 1 1 b    11  [@] ^trouble with the b\ank m/anager#              / 
11 1  7311890 1 1 b    11  or the ^bank m/anager# .                           / 
11 1  7311900 1 1 b    11  ^didn`t kn=ow#                                     / 
11 1  7311910 1 1 b    11  ^take it to 'Mr :David C\oleman# -                 / 
11 1  7411920 1 1 a    11  ^y/es# -                                           / 
11 1  7411930 1 1 b    11  and I ^took it t\/o# .                             / 
11 1  7411940 1 1 b    11  the ^bank m/anager#                                / 
11 1  7411950 1 1 b    11  he ^read it thr/ough# .                            / 
11 1  7411960 1 1 b    11  he ^said well I`m !not a 'legal g/entleman# -      / 
11 1  7411970 1 1 b    13  ^I ^I I ^don`t kn\ow#                              / 
11 1  7411980 1 1 b    11  it ^looks all 'right to m\e# - -                   / 
11 1  7411990 1 1 b    11  and ^then I !took . the - !other c/opy#            / 
11 1  7412000 1 1 b    11  to ^Mr C\oleman# .                                 / 
11 1  7412010 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow#                                             / 
11 1  7412020 1 1 a    11  ^this was :after she !s\igned the 'will#           / 
11 1  7412030 1 1 b    11  ^this was !after she s\igned it {^y\es#}#          / 
11 1  7412040 1 1 a    11  and do ^you 'tell my lord . n\/ow# .               / 
11 1  7412050 1 1 a    11  that un^til "th\at t/ime#                          / 
11 1  7412060 1 2 a    11  you ^didn`t 'know that Mr 'Coleman was 'her        / 
11 1  7412060 1 1 a    11  sol\icitor# -                                      / 
11 1  7512070 1 1 b    11  ^w\/ell# -                                         / 
11 1  7512080 1 1 b    11  I ^may have :r\ead it#                             / 
11 1  7512090 1 1 c    11  *^y\es#                                            / 
11 1  7512100 1 1 c    20  ((syll))*                                          / 
11 1  7512110 1 1 a    11  *((well a^part* from)) 'may have r\ead it#         / 
11 1  7512120 1 1 a    11  and ^not 'sinking \in# .                           / 
11 1  7512130 2 1 a    21  *a"^p\art*                                         / 
11 1  7512140 1 1 b    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  7512130 1 1(a    11  from th/at#                                        / 
11 1  7512150 1 1 a    11  are you ^telling my 'lord that you 'didn`t kn\ow#  / 
11 1  7512160 1 1 a    11  ^he was 'her sol/icitor# .                         / 
11 1  7512170 1 1 a    11  un^til th\en# .                                    / 
11 1  7512180 1 2 b    11  I ^didn`t 'know that :mother had !ch\anged her     / 
11 1  7512180 1 1 b    11  so_licitor#                                        / 
11 1  7512190 1 1 b    11  ^Mr _C=oleman# .                                   / 
11 1  7512200 1 1 b    11  un^t/il then#                                      / 
11 1  7512210 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# - .                                          / 
11 1  7512220 1 1 b    21  be^cause                                           / 
11 1  7612230 1 1 a    11  ^s\orry#                                           / 
11 1  7612240 1 1 a    11  you ^didn`t kn\ow#                                 / 
11 1  7612250 1 1 a    11  that . ^she had ch/anged#                          / 
11 1  7612260 1 1 a    11  "^t\o Mr C/oleman#                                 / 
11 1  7612270 2 1 a    21  *^until*                                           / 
11 1  7612280 1 1 b    11  *^y\es#*                                           / 
11 1  7612270 1 1(a    11  th\en#                                             / 
11 1  7612290 1 1 a    11  ((are)) ^you s/ure#                                / 
11 1  7612300 1 1 b    11  ^yes I`m !s\ure#                                   / 
11 1  7612310 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 1  7612320 1 1 a    11  you . ^told my 'lord y\/esterday#                  / 
11 1  7612330 1 1 a    11  and my ^lord may 'like your !h\elp ab/out this#    / 
11 1  7612340 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow# -                                           / 
11 1  7612350 1 1 a    11  ^th\is# - -                                        / 
11 1  7612360 1 2 a    11  ^she had . !had such an :unhappy 'time over        / 
11 1  7612360 1 1 a    11  Chr/istmas#                                        / 
11 1  7612370 1 1 a    11  she`d ^phoned me !m\any *'times*#                  / 
11 1  7612380 2 1 a    21  to ^ask 'me to :go to                              / 
11 1  7612390 1 1 b    11  *^\oh yes#*                                        / 
11 1  7612380 1 1(a    11  'see Mr !Coleman with h\er#                        / 
11 1  7712400 1 1 b    11  ^yes she d\id#                                     / 
11 1  7712410 1 1 a    11  she ^[s@ub] me on !Saturday _February the \eighth# / 
11 1  7712420 1 1 a    11  to ^go and s\ee her# .                             / 
11 1  7712430 1 2 a    11  are ^you 'telling my 'lord in 'view of your        / 
11 1  7712430 1 1 a    11  'answers y\esterday# .                             / 
11 1  7712440 1 1 a    11  that ^what you`re 'saying to'day is /accurate#     / 
11 1  7712450 1 1 b    11  ^n\o# .                                            / 
11 1  7712460 1 2 b    11  ^mother !d\id say _that . {^mother d\id say .      / 
11 1  7712460 1 1 b    11  that#}#                                            / 
11 1  7712470 1 1 b    11  but I ^didn`t r\/ealize#                           / 
11 1  7712480 1 1 b    11  that ^Mr "!D\avid C/oleman#                        / 
11 1  7712490 1 1 b    11  was ^her sol\icitor#                               / 
11 1  7712500 1 1 b    20  *. but*                                            / 
11 1  7712510 1 1 a    11  *what ^difference* did it m\ake#                   / 
11 1  7712520 1 2 a    11  ^what the Chr\istian 'name of the *{so^l\icitor    / 
11 1  7712520 1 1 a    11  'was#}#*                                           / 
11 1  7812530 1 1 b    11  *^w\ell#                                           / 
11 1  7812540 1 1 b    11  it it* . it ^didn`t r/eally#                       / 
11 1  7812550 1 1 b    11  ex^cepting that :mother !t\/old me# .              / 
11 1  7812560 1 1 b    11  to ^s\/ee 'him#                                    / 
11 1  7812570 1 1 b    11  and . and that ^he was a !very nice :ch\ap# .      / 
11 1  7812580 1 1 b    11  ^that`s \all# .                                    / 
11 1  7812590 1 1 a    11  ^if your 'evidence 'yesterday is :\/accurate# .    / 
11 1  7812600 1 1 a    11  ^your 'mother was ph/oning you# .                  / 
11 1  7812610 1 1 a    11  "^s\everal t/imes# .                               / 
11 1  7812620 1 1 a    11  ^using !your w=ords#                               / 
11 1  7812630 1 1 a    11  ^m\any t/imes#                                     / 
11 1  7812640 1 1 a    11  ^asking !y\ou to 'go#                              / 
11 1  7812650 1 1 a    11  to ^see Mr !C\oleman#                              / 
11 1  7812660 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  7812670 1 1 b    11  she ^d\id#                                         / 
11 1  7812680 1 2 a    11  "^you 'knew :Mr 'Coleman was !her so!licitor .     / 
11 1  7812680 1 1 a    11  !th\en# .                                          / 
11 1  7812690 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 1  7812700 1 1 b    11  [@] ^y\es#                                         / 
11 1  7812710 1 1 b    11  but I ^didn`t kn\ow Mr *'Coleman#*                 / 
11 1  7912720 1 1 a    11  *^((n\o#))*                                        / 
11 1  7912730 1 1 a    11  ^you !kn\ew# .                                     / 
11 1  7912740 1 1 a    11  that a ^Mr C\oleman#                               / 
11 1  7912750 1 1 a    11  was ^her sol\icitor#                               / 
11 1  7912760 1 1 b    11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 1  7912770 1 1 a    11  "^why did you t\ell my 'lord# .                    / 
11 1  7912780 1 1 a    11  ^three or four 'minutes ag/o# .                    / 
11 1  7912790 1 1 a    11  that a^part from 'reading [ei] :d\/ocument#        / 
11 1  7912800 1 1 a    11  which ^didn`t 'sink /in#                           / 
11 1  7912810 1 1 a    11  you ^didn`t kn=ow# .                               / 
11 1  7912820 1 1 a    11  Mr ^Coleman was her sol/icitor#                    / 
11 1  7912830 1 1 a    11  until ^after she`d 'signed the w\ill#              / 
11 1  7912840 1 1 b    11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 1  7912850 1 1 b    11  it ^didn`t 'really "r\egister#                     / 
11 1  7912860 1 1 b    11  that Mr ^C\oleman# .                               / 
11 1  7912870 1 1 b    11  was ^her sol\icitor to 'me#                        / 
11 1  7912880 1 2 b    12  I ^didn`t - [@] . I ^didn`t "g\o to 'see Mr        / 
11 1  7912880 1 1 b    12  'Coleman {with ^[ma] m\other#}#                    / 
11 2   1   10 1 1 a    11  well ^ladies and g\entlemen#                       / 
11 2   1   20 1 1 a    11  ^let me . be:g\in {by s\aying#}#                   / 
11 2   1   30 1 1 a    11  how . ^grateful I :\am# - -                        / 
11 2   1   40 1 1 a    12  [@:] . to our ^new [honr] ^new _f\ellow# .         / 
11 2   1   50 1 2 a    12  ^for re!pl\ying . ^for [@:] pro!posing the :t\/oast/ 
11 2   1   50 1 1 a    12  of the 'college# -                                 / 
11 2   1   60 1 2 a    11  it`s ^{\always} a :m\onstrous 'thing that I 'have  / 
11 2   1   60 1 1 a    11  to d/o that# .                                     / 
11 2   1   70 1 1 a    11  di^rectly I . !get his ac!c\eptance# .             / 
11 2   1   80 1 2 a    11  ^of [@:m - @:] be!coming a !fellow of the          / 
11 2   1   80 1 1 a    11  _c/ollege#                                         / 
11 2   1   90 1 1 a    11  I im^mediately 'then write an:\/other 'letter#     / 
11 2   1  100 1 1 a    11  ^saying [@n] !s\ince you`ve acc/epted#             / 
11 2   1  110 1 1 a    11  I`ve ^no 'doubt you`ll be *'very :pl\eased to# .   / 
11 2   1  120 1 1 aud  20  *(laughter - - )*                                  / 
11 2   1  130 1 2 a    11  [@ . u] pro^{p\ose}* [dhi:] !toast of the          / 
11 2   1  130 1 1 a    11  !c\ollege#                                         / 
11 2   1  140 1 2 a    11  ^this is a [?] !thing which he !!finds rather      / 
11 2   1  140 1 1 a    11  {h\ard} to re:f\use# . .                           / 
11 2   2  150 1 1 a    11  [@:m] but . it`s "^very 'good of 'you to d\o it#   / 
11 2   2  160 1 1 a    11  and I`m "^deeply gr\ateful# -                      / 
11 2   2  170 1 1 a    11  [@] but I`m ^deeply gr\ateful#                     / 
11 2   2  180 1 2 a    11  be^cause it`s a !!very "c/urious 'speech I`ve _got / 
11 2   2  180 1 1 a    11  to m\ake#                                          / 
11 2   2  190 1 1 a    11  I re^member 'last y\ear# .                         / 
11 2   2  200 1 1 a    11  ^when I !sp\oke on this occ/asion# .               / 
11 2   2  210 1 1 a    11  [@:m] . ^s\aying that# .                           / 
11 2   2  220 1 1 a    11  it was ^really a :very sig"!n\/ificant 'year this# / 
11 2   2  230 1 2 a    11  cos it was the ^year ((in)) which I !didn`t _really/ 
11 2   2  230 1 1 a    11  have to 'talk about "f\inance# -                   / 
11 2   2  240 1 1 a    11  [@:] and ^m/oney# .                                / 
11 2   2  250 1 1 a    11  we ^had _got a de'velopment pr\/ogramme# .         / 
11 2   3  260 1 1 a    11  which had ^come al/ong#                            / 
11 2   3  270 1 3 a    11  with ^[dhi:] 'whole i!dea of !imple'menting [dhi: ./ 
11 2   3  270 1 2 a    11  @:?] :Todd . [@?@] . re:{p/ort} on [@] 'medical    / 
11 2   3  270 1 1 a    11  'educ/ation# .                                     / 
11 2   3  280 1 1 a    12  ^and [@] that "^from 'this rep/ort# -              / 
11 2   3  290 1 1 a    11  [@] de^velopments have occ/urred# .                / 
11 2   3  300 1 2 a    11  which "^meant that :we were 'going to 'have a      / 
11 2   3  300 1 1 a    11  !large-'scale :b\/uilding 'programme# .            / 
11 2   3  310 1 1 a    11  in the ^c/ollege# -                                / 
11 2   3  320 1 1 a    11  ^which at !that t\/ime#                            / 
11 2   3  330 1 1 a    11  ((in)) ^those pr\ices#                             / 
11 2   3  340 1 1 a    11  would have ^been !five and a :half m/illion#       / 
11 2   3  350 1 1 a    11  ^to . !seven and a 'half million :p\ounds# - - -   / 
11 2   4  360 1 1 a    11  "^w/ell#                                           / 
11 2   4  370 1 1 a    11  of ^c\ourse# -                                     / 
11 2   4  380 1 1 a    11  ^things have 'turned :out very !d\ifferently# .    / 
11 2   4  390 1 2 a    11  it`s ^been a "!!c\urious 'aca_demic 'year 'up to   / 
11 2   4  390 1 1 a    11  d/ate# -                                           / 
11 2   4  400 1 1 a    11  the "^first t/erm# .                               / 
11 2   4  410 1 1 a    11  ^{th\at} is to :s\/ay in#                          / 
11 2   4  420 1 1 a    11  ^M/ichaelmas# .                                    / 
11 2   4  430 1 1 a    11  [@:] ^/onwards# .                                  / 
11 2   4  440 1 1 a    13  [@:] ^we un^til [k] un^til [@:] Nov/ember#         / 
11 2   4  450 1 1 a    11  we we ^spent our t/ime# .                          / 
11 2   4  460 1 1 a    11  ^having !c\arefully prep/ared#                     / 
11 2   4  470 1 1 a    11  [dzh] ^all 'during the :s\/ummer# -                / 
11 2   4  480 1 1 a    11  ^in !getting agr/eement#                           / 
11 2   4  490 1 2 a    11  a^bout "!how we were 'going to !use the            / 
11 2   4  490 1 1 a    11  de"!v\elopment m/oney#                             / 
11 2   4  500 1 1 a    11  ^which we`d been :g\/iven# .                       / 
11 2   4  510 1 1 a    11  ^by the . g\overnment# .                           / 
11 2   4  520 1 1 a    11  ^to !increase _student n/umbers#                   / 
11 2   5  530 1 1 a    11  to de"^velop in 'various di:r=ections# .           / 
11 2   5  540 1 2 a    11  ^and that !this de'velopment was :going to take    / 
11 2   5  540 1 1 a    11  !pl/ace#                                           / 
11 2   5  550 1 1 a    11  ^l/argely {in^/evitably#}# .                       / 
11 2   5  560 1 1 a    11  ^in the !=arts dep/artments# .                     / 
11 2   5  570 1 1 a    11  because ^they were the pl/aces#                    / 
11 2   5  580 1 1 a    12  ^which 'could . [e:?] 'have [dhi: ji:n] in^d\uce# ./ 
11 2   5  590 1 1 a    11  ^extra !st\/udents#                                / 
11 2   5  600 1 1 a    11  ad^d\itional st/udents#                            / 
11 2   5  610 1 1 a    11  to ^come to the !c\ollege# -                       / 
11 2   5  620 1 1 a    11  ^that was 'what we 'did in the ":f\irst 'term# .   / 
11 2   5  630 1 1 a    11  the ^{s\econd} t\/erm# .                           / 
11 2   5  640 1 1 a    11  of ^course we 'spent our !wh\/ole 'time# .         / 
11 2   5  650 1 1 a    11  ^making '[pleinz] for con"!tr\action# -            / 
11 2   6  660 1 2 a    11  [@:] be^cause of 'course [dhi:] . :whole           / 
11 2   6  660 1 1 a    11  ![eiki](([d])) 'econ'omic cl\imate# .              / 
11 2   6  670 1 1 a    11  ^had "{t\otally} :ch\anged# - -                    / 
11 2   6  680 1 1 a    11  ^what of course _h\appened#                        / 
11 2   6  690 1 1 a    11  ^as you !well kn\/ow#                              / 
11 2   6  700 1 1 a    11  ^\/is# .                                           / 
11 2   6  710 1 1 a    11  that ^in No:v\ember# -                             / 
11 2   6  720 1 2 a    11  the "^whole econ'omic po'sition of the 'country    / 
11 2   6  720 1 1 a    11  ((had)) ch\anged# -                                / 
11 2   6  730 1 1 a    11  and ^Mrs "Th\/atcher# .                            / 
11 2   6  740 1 2 a    12  ^who [i?] is a . ^was [@ei] !Secretary of {St/ate} / 
11 2   6  740 1 1 a    12  for Educ/ation# .                                  / 
11 2   6  750 1 1 a    11  who in ^many 'ways was _much mal\igned#            / 
11 2   6  760 1 1 a    11  an extra^ordinarily "able "w/oman# .               / 
11 2   6  770 1 1 a    11  ^who [@] !managed to 'get her pri!\/orities# .     / 
11 2   7  780 1 1 a    11  ^very !str\aight# .                                / 
11 2   7  790 1 1 a    11  and ^very cl\ear in her /own 'mind# -              / 
11 2   7  800 1 2 a    11  [@:m] but ^she was "!never a 'one for _half        / 
11 2   7  800 1 1 a    11  m\easures# -                                       / 
11 2   7  810 1 1 a    11  and she ^gave us in Nov/ember# .                   / 
11 2   7  820 1 1 a    11  a "^f\/earful# .                                   / 
11 2   7  830 1 1 a    11  ^cut in the fr\ont# - -                            / 
11 2   7  840 1 1 a    11  [@:] . ^she . !st/abbed us# .                      / 
11 2   7  850 1 1 a    11  un^d/oubtedly# .                                   / 
11 2   7  860 1 1 a    11  [@:m] ^where we !l\east exp/ected it# -            / 
11 2   7  870 1 1 a    12  ^and [@:m] . the re^sult of th/at# .               / 
11 2   7  880 1 1 a    11  ^was 'that the !univ/ersities# .                   / 
11 2   7  890 1 1 a    11  [@] ^lost !twenty-/one#                            / 
11 2   7  900 1 1 a    11  and a ^half million p\ounds# - .                   / 
11 2   7  910 1 1 a    11  now ^that was the eff\ect# .                       / 
11 2   7  920 1 1 a    11  ^of the !government t\aking# .                     / 
11 2   7  930 1 1 a    11  the ^v\/iew# .                                     / 
11 2   7  940 1 1 a    11  ^after the :new y\ear# -                           / 
11 2   8  950 1 1 a    11  ^that the econ!omic 'situ:\ation#                  / 
11 2   8  960 1 1 a    11  ((had)) be^c\/ome "!so d\esperate# .               / 
11 2   8  970 1 1 a    11  ^that . the !univ\ersities#                        / 
11 2   8  980 1 2 a    11  should have "^no 'supplemen'tation :for            / 
11 2   8  980 1 1 a    11  infl\ation# .                                      / 
11 2   8  990 1 1 a    11  ^we bel/\ieve((d))#                                / 
11 2   8 1000 1 2 a    11  that they ^meant to _take something like 'fourteen / 
11 2   8 1000 1 1 a    11  :m\illions#                                        / 
11 2   8 1010 1 2 a    11  I ^mean that !that was the [b] :figure that they   / 
11 2   8 1010 1 1 a    11  :had in !m\ind# -                                  / 
11 2   8 1020 1 1 a    11  but in ^f\act# -                                   / 
11 2   8 1030 1 2 a    11  when you ^really 'found 'out what in'flation was   / 
11 2   8 1030 1 1 a    11  !d\oing at that t/ime# .                           / 
11 2   8 1040 1 2 a    11  it is ^{g\oing to a'mount to} :{s\omething 'like}  / 
11 2   8 1040 1 1 a    11  :twenty-one and a 'half m\illions# .               / 
11 2   9 1050 1 1 a    11  of ^which in !!th\is 'college#                     / 
11 2   9 1060 1 2 a    11  ^this . 'really . 'means . [@:m] :s\/omething      / 
11 2   9 1060 1 1 a    11  ar'ound# .                                         / 
11 2   9 1070 1 1 a    11  [@: @ @ @ uaj] you ^take our de!v\elopment 'money# / 
11 2   9 1080 1 1 a    11  as ^thr\ee hundred th/ousand# .                    / 
11 2   9 1090 1 2 a    11  we are ^probably 'going to :have !f\/ive hundred   / 
11 2   9 1090 1 1 a    11  'thousand#                                         / 
11 2   9 1100 1 1 a    11  ^taken !{\out} . of our :\income# .                / 
11 2   9 1110 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow# .                                           / 
11 2   9 1120 1 2 a    11  ^this is the "!{k\ind of _problem} we`re :\up      / 
11 2   9 1120 1 1 a    11  a'gainst# .                                        / 
11 2   9 1130 1 1 a    11  we`re ^up a_gainst an!\/other 'problem 'though# .  / 
11 2   9 1140 1 1 a    11  which ^is of c=ourse#                              / 
11 2   9 1150 1 1 a    11  the ^rate of in:fl\ation# -                        / 
11 2   9 1160 1 2 a    11  now the ^rate of in:flation has 'just been "!s\/aid/ 
11 2   9 1160 1 1 a    11  to 'be#                                            / 
11 2  10 1170 1 1 a    11  ^thir'teen per :c/ent# .                           / 
11 2  10 1180 1 1 a    11  ^at the m/oment# -                                 / 
11 2  10 1190 1 1 a    11  and ^my own "!f\/orecast#                          / 
11 2  10 1200 1 2 a    11  though I ^hesitate to 'make a 'forecast with 'Lord / 
11 2  10 1200 1 1 a    11  :Robbins !n/ext to me# .                           / 
11 2  10 1210 1 1 a    11  ^is that !this y/ear#                              / 
11 2  10 1220 1 2 a    11  we shall be ^lucky if we 'get a'way with :eight\een/ 
11 2  10 1220 1 1 a    11  per 'cent# - - -                                   / 
11 2  10 1230 1 2 a    11  ^this 'is _South A:merican 'standards of           / 
11 2  10 1230 1 1 a    11  in!fl\ation# - -                                   / 
11 2  10 1240 1 1 a    11  "^\and of 'course#                                 / 
11 2  10 1250 1 1 a    11  we ^have to !face the f\act#                       / 
11 2  10 1260 1 1 a    11  that we ^have a d/eficit# .                        / 
11 2  10 1270 1 2 a    11  ^on the :balance of 'payments ac'counts of 'this   / 
11 2  10 1270 1 1 a    11  c/ountry# .                                        / 
11 2  10 1280 1 1 a    11  of ^over two 'thousand "m/illion# .                / 
11 2  11 1290 1 1 a    11  and it ^may well r\ise# - -                        / 
11 2  11 1300 1 1 a    11  now ^what ef"f\ect# .                              / 
11 2  11 1310 1 1 a    11  are ^these gi"!g\antic# .                          / 
11 2  11 1320 1 1 a    11  ^ch\anges# .                                       / 
11 2  11 1330 1 1 a    11  ^in our 'econ'omic situ{\ation} in the :n\ation# . / 
11 2  11 1340 1 1 a    11  ^going to 'make on _British 'univ\ersities# - - -  / 
11 2  11 1350 1 1 a    11  ^w/ell# -                                          / 
11 2  11 1360 1 1 a    11  it`s "^always "t\/empting#                         / 
11 2  11 1370 1 1 a    11  to ^be sen!s\ational#                              / 
11 2  11 1380 1 1 a    11  and ^I don`t !w\ant to 'be sen{s\ational#}#        / 
11 2  11 1390 1 1 a    11  because I ^think that in f\act# .                  / 
11 2  11 1400 1 1 a    11  ^things occur 'much more :sl\/owly#                / 
11 2  11 1410 1 2 a    11  than ^people :often . [@: @: a] al":{l\ow} in their/ 
11 2  11 1410 1 1 a    11  sp\eeches# .                                       / 
11 2  11 1420 1 2 a    11  par^ticularly 'when they`re :trying to 'make an    / 
11 2  11 1420 1 1 a    11  ef:f\ect# .                                        / 
11 2  12 1430 1 1 a    11  but ^these are "s\ome of the th/ings#              / 
11 2  12 1440 1 1 a    11  that ^we are :\up a'gainst# -                      / 
11 2  12 1450 1 1 a    11  the "^f\irst thing we are /up a'gainst#            / 
11 2  12 1460 1 1 a    11  ^is the !question of our st\udents# - -            / 
11 2  12 1470 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow#                                             / 
11 2  12 1480 1 1 a    11  ^some'time in the 'next :m\onth or s/o# .          / 
11 2  12 1490 1 2 a    11  ^[dhi:] !figure ((the)) government will an'nounce a/ 
11 2  12 1490 1 1 a    11  'figure for a 'student :gr\ant# - - -              / 
11 2  12 1500 1 1 a    11  if "^all 'went "w\/ell# .                          / 
11 2  12 1510 1 2 a    11  ^and the !students 'really 'got what they !\ought  / 
11 2  12 1510 1 1 a    11  to 'get#                                           / 
11 2  12 1520 1 1 a    11  they "^ought to g\et# .                            / 
11 2  12 1530 1 1 a    11  a ^f\/igure#                                       / 
11 2  12 1540 1 1 a    12  of . a ^[m] ^not for L\ondon# .                    / 
11 2  13 1550 1 1 a    11  ^but !this is the !m\ean 'over the 'whole c/ountry#/ 
11 2  13 1560 1 1 a    11  of ^six 'hundred and :fifty-'five p\ounds# - - -   / 
11 2  13 1570 1 1 a    11  "^they will "!{n\ot get} ":anything "!l\ike that# ./ 
11 2  13 1580 1 1 a    11  ^this would be a gi{g\antic} :\increase# .         / 
11 2  13 1590 1 1 a    11  but ^even if they "!!d\id get 'that# .             / 
11 2  13 1600 1 2 a    11  with in^flation 'running at the 'rate that it      / 
11 2  13 1600 1 1 a    11  /\is# .                                            / 
11 2  13 1610 1 1 a    11  it would be "^h\opelessly 'out of d/ate# -         / 
11 2  13 1620 1 1 a    11  within ^half a 'year p\assing# - - -               / 
11 2  13 1630 1 1 a    11  ^now !what !h\appens# .                            / 
11 2  13 1640 1 1 a    11  ^wh\en#                                            / 
11 2  13 1650 1 1 a    12  ^as [in] will in^{\evitably} :h\appen# .           / 
11 2  13 1660 1 1 a    11  not ^m\erely#                                      / 
11 2  13 1670 1 2 a    11  do you ^have this in:flationary ef:fect on a       / 
11 2  13 1670 1 1 a    11  !student gr/ant# .                                 / 
11 2  14 1680 1 1 a    11  but that the ^gr=ant# .                            / 
11 2  14 1690 1 1 a    11  the ^level of the :gr\ant#                         / 
11 2  14 1700 1 1 a    11  is ^put . !far 'too :l\ow# - -                     / 
11 2  14 1710 1 1 a    11  "^this ups\ets#                                    / 
11 2  14 1720 1 1 a    11  the ^whole w=ay#                                   / 
11 2  14 1730 1 1 a    11  in ^which we`ve "!always c\alcu'lated# .           / 
11 2  14 1740 1 1 a    11  in the ^past !y\/ears# .                           / 
11 2  14 1750 1 1 a    11  [b@u] for ^fifteen y\ears#                         / 
11 2  14 1760 1 1 a    11  that our ^students would :l\ive# - - -             / 
11 2  14 1770 1 1 a    11  it ^m/eans of course# .                            / 
11 2  14 1780 1 3 a    11  that ^they will _have the "!utmost 'difficulty in  / 
11 2  14 1780 1 2 a    11  :paying . 'for . 'their . !m/eals . {in the        / 
11 2  14 1780 1 1 a    11  re^f/ectories#}# -                                 / 
11 2  14 1790 1 2 a    11  and ^that means that the re:{f/ectories} 'go into  / 
11 2  14 1790 1 1 a    11  d/eficit# .                                        / 
11 2  15 1800 1 1 a    11  if they ^can`t af!ford to !\eat _here# -           / 
11 2  15 1810 1 1 a    11  ^and it _m=eans#                                   / 
11 2  15 1820 1 1 a    11  that ^they will have the "!utmost d\ifficulty# .   / 
11 2  15 1830 1 1 a    11  in ^p\aying 'for# .                                / 
11 2  15 1840 1 1 a    11  ^any ac'commod:/ation# .                           / 
11 2  15 1850 1 2 a    11  which ^University !College or the 'Uni'versity     / 
11 2  15 1850 1 1 a    11  prov=ides#                                         / 
11 2  15 1860 1 2 a    11  ^that is the !halls of 'residence and the :r\ooming/ 
11 2  15 1860 1 1 a    11  'houses# - - -                                     / 
11 2  15 1870 1 1 a    11  ^this m/eans#                                      / 
11 2  15 1880 1 1 a    11  that ^students will 'have to ":w\ork# - -          / 
11 2  15 1890 1 1 a    11  ^they will have to "!take !w/ork#                  / 
11 2  15 1900 1 1 a    11  if ^they can :g/et it# -                           / 
11 2  15 1910 1 1 a    11  ^\and {of ^c\ourse#}#                              / 
11 2  15 1920 1 1 a    11  "^if they ":\are# .                                / 
11 2  15 1930 1 1 a    11  ^capable of !!d\oing it#                           / 
11 2  16 1940 1 1 a    11  be^cause it`s !not "_\every 'student#              / 
11 2  16 1950 1 1 a    11  par^ticularly g/\irls# .                           / 
11 2  16 1960 1 1 a    11  who ^{{c\an} !f\ind} empl\oyment in vac/ations# - -/ 
11 2  16 1970 1 1 a    11  this ^m/eans#                                      / 
11 2  16 1980 1 1 a    11  that ^they will 'have to :work in vac/ations# .    / 
11 2  16 1990 1 1 a    11  it "^m/\ight 'mean# .                              / 
11 2  16 2000 1 1 a    11  and I ^think it "!w\/ill 'mean in_creasingly# .    / 
11 2  16 2010 1 1 a    11  that they will ^have to 'work in !t\erm# -         / 
11 2  16 2020 1 1 a    11  this ^means that 'certain dep/artments#            / 
11 2  16 2030 1 1 a    11  ^such as ge:\ology# .                              / 
11 2  16 2040 1 2 a    12  [@: @: @] ^which [dzh dzh] ((you can have))        / 
11 2  16 2040 1 1 a    12  "^f\ield 'courses#                                 / 
11 2  16 2050 1 1 a    11  ge^\ography#                                       / 
11 2  16 2060 1 1 a    11  which has "^f\ield 'courses#                       / 
11 2  16 2070 1 1 a    11  in [dhi:] . va^c/ations# -                         / 
11 2  16 2080 1 2 a    11  ^will 'have to 'recon:sider whether these .        / 
11 2  16 2080 1 1 a    11  !courses !can go "!\on 'in the va'cations# -       / 
11 2  17 2090 1 2 a    11  or ^whether they will :have to be _put into _t/erm / 
11 2  17 2090 1 1 a    11  'time# -                                           / 
11 2  17 2100 1 2 a    11  ^so that the va:cations can be 'left . ":solely for/ 
11 2  17 2100 1 1 a    11  the 'purpose . of :gaining . "m\oney# - - -        / 
11 2  17 2110 1 1 a    11  ^as for the :p\/ost'graduates# .                   / 
11 2  17 2120 1 2 a    11  ^their situation . at :{L\ondon} at the :{m\oment} / 
11 2  17 2120 1 1 a    11  is "d\esperate# - - .                              / 
11 2  17 2130 1 1 a    11  they are the "^only p\art#                         / 
11 2  17 2140 1 1 a    11  of the "^whole uni'versity ":s\ystem# - -          / 
11 2  17 2150 1 1 a    11  which does ^not have "!any al:l\owance# .          / 
11 2  17 2160 1 1 a    11  gro^tesquely in!adequate !though it may !!b\e# -   / 
11 2  18 2170 1 1 a    11  for ^living in L\ondon# -                          / 
11 2  18 2180 1 1 a    11  "^w\e# .                                           / 
11 2  18 2190 1 2 a    11  on the ^academic 'staff 'have a :London            / 
11 2  18 2190 1 1 a    11  all\owance# -                                      / 
11 2  18 2200 1 2 a    11  it ^shows you _just how ex_pensive it !\is to 'live/ 
11 2  18 2200 1 1 a    11  in {^L\ondon#}# .                                  / 
11 2  18 2210 1 2 a    11  it is ^one hundred and :sixty-two _pounds a        / 
11 2  18 2210 1 1 a    11  _y\ear# .                                          / 
11 2  18 2220 1 1 aud  20  (laughter - - *-*)                                 / 
11 2  18 2230 1 1(a    11  *"^that is the 'London* all\owance# .              / 
11 2  18 2240 1 1 a    11  [dhi] ^t\echnical 'staff#                          / 
11 2  18 2250 1 1 a    11  have a ^L/ondon all\owance# - -                    / 
11 2  18 2260 1 1 a    11  ^we have a !London all\owance#                     / 
11 2  18 2270 1 1 a    11  ^built {\in} in :\all things# .                    / 
11 2  18 2280 1 1 a    11  the ^\one 'place which we d/on`t# -                / 
11 2  18 2290 1 1 a    11  is the ^postgr\aduates#                            / 
11 2  19 2300 1 2 a    11  they have "^no al'lowance of 'any k\ind {for       / 
11 2  19 2300 1 1 a    11  ^w\orking 'here#}# -                               / 
11 2  19 2310 1 2 a    11  and ^this 'means that 'they are in :desperate      / 
11 2  19 2310 1 1 a    11  str\aits# - -                                      / 
11 2  19 2320 1 1 a    11  ^w/ell# .                                          / 
11 2  19 2330 1 1 a    11  ^that is !\one of the th/ings#                     / 
11 2  19 2340 1 1 a    11  which is a "^great w\orry 'to us# -                / 
11 2  19 2350 1 1 a    11  as to ^how 'long 'people will :be able to !c\/ome# / 
11 2  19 2360 1 1 a    11  and ac^cept . post'graduate aw/ards#               / 
11 2  19 2370 1 1 a    11  ^\in 'London# -                                    / 
11 2  19 2380 1 1 a    12  ^then there ^is of c/ourse# .                      / 
11 2  19 2390 1 1 a    11  and ^this . !\also 'raises the qu/estion#          / 
11 2  19 2400 1 1 a    11  as to ^whether . _we should . !h\ave# -            / 
11 2  19 2410 1 1 a    11  ^post'graduate - st\udent'ships# .                 / 
11 2  19 2420 1 1 a    11  ^gr\ants#                                          / 
11 2  19 2430 1 1 a    11  what^ever you 'like to c\all them#                 / 
11 2  20 2440 1 1 a    11  at ^\all# - .                                      / 
11 2  20 2450 1 1 a    11  "^some people are beginning to _talk al!r\eady# .  / 
11 2  20 2460 1 2 a    11  ^that 'we should a!bolish the {{wh\ole}            / 
11 2  20 2460 1 1 a    11  con:c\eption} of a 'post'graduate on a gr\ant# .   / 
11 2  20 2470 1 2 a    11  ^and we should !have the !whole lot 'made .        / 
11 2  20 2470 1 1 a    11  re:search ass\istants# - .                         / 
11 2  20 2480 1 1 a    11  at ^any 'rate they would 'have a !w\age#           / 
11 2  20 2490 1 1 a    11  at ^any 'rate 'that w\age# .                       / 
11 2  20 2500 1 1 a    11  ^if there !\/is 'supplemen'tation#                 / 
11 2  20 2510 1 1 a    11  ^might be !s\upple'mented# - -                     / 
11 2  20 2520 1 1 a    11  it would ^{m\ean} un"!d\oubtedly I th/ink# .       / 
11 2  20 2530 1 1 a    11  "^very many !f\ewer# -                             / 
11 2  20 2540 1 1 a    11  it would ^m\ean#                                   / 
11 2  20 2550 1 1 a    11  ^very great d\ifficulties# .                       / 
11 2  20 2560 1 1 a    11  for our ^scientific de!p\artments# -               / 
11 2  21 2570 1 1 a    11  but ^these are 'some of the :th\/ings#             / 
11 2  21 2580 1 1 a    13  which ^I think - [@?] I ^mean I can ^s\ee# .       / 
11 2  21 2590 1 1 a    11  the ^s\/igns of 'this#                             / 
11 2  21 2600 1 1 a    11  ^coming on the hor:\izon# -                        / 
11 2  21 2610 1 1 a    11  and "^th\en of 'course#                            / 
11 2  21 2620 1 1 a    11  the ^next !thing /is# .                            / 
11 2  21 2630 1 1 a    11  that we`ve ^always re:l\/ied in this 'college#     / 
11 2  21 2640 1 1 a    11  and ^by re"!l\ied# .                               / 
11 2  21 2650 1 1 a    11  ^not re"l\ied for our :{^\income#}#                / 
11 2  21 2660 1 1 a    11  but en"^j\oyed# .                                  / 
11 2  21 2670 1 1 a    11  and ^thought was :part of our !d\uty# .            / 
11 2  21 2680 1 1 a    11  to the ^whole "!w\orld of 'scholarship# - .        / 
11 2  21 2690 1 2 a    11  to ^have an !intake of :foreign . post'graduate    / 
11 2  21 2690 1 1 a    11  st\udents# - - .                                   / 
11 2  21 2700 1 2 a    11  but ^when the {g\overnment} be:gins to :\ask       / 
11 2  21 2700 1 1 a    11  it'self#                                           / 
11 2  21 2710 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow#                                             / 
11 2  21 2720 1 1 a    11  ^what are we 'spending our m\oney 'on#             / 
11 2  22 2730 1 1 a    11  in ^higher educ\ation# .                           / 
11 2  22 2740 1 1 a    11  it may ^very 'well !b\e that#                      / 
11 2  22 2750 1 1 a    11  ^they will s/ay#                                   / 
11 2  22 2760 1 1 a    11  ^well n/ow#                                        / 
11 2  22 2770 1 1 a    11  the ^last 'time w\e were in p/ower#                / 
11 2  22 2780 1 1 a    11  and this is a ^Labour 'government sp/eaking# -     / 
11 2  22 2790 1 1 a    11  ^we took a !very un'popular dec\ision# - -         / 
11 2  22 2800 1 2 a    11  (coughs) it was op^posed by 'every "!!single       / 
11 2  22 2800 1 1 a    11  'uni'versity in the l\and# -                       / 
11 2  22 2810 1 1 a    11  ^that is to _say we _made a "!d\/iffer'ential#     / 
11 2  22 2820 1 1 a    12  be^tween the "^home [@:] 'based st/udent#          / 
11 2  22 2830 1 1 a    11  [@] ^who paid !fifty p/ounds# .                    / 
11 2  22 2840 1 1 a    11  and the "^overseas st/udent#                       / 
11 2  22 2850 1 1 a    11  who paid "^tw\o hundred and 'fifty 'pounds# .      / 
11 2  22 2860 1 2 a    11  and ^we {r\aised} and :made a 'differ\ential       / 
11 2  22 2860 1 1 a    11  {^th\ere}# .                                       / 
11 2  23 2870 1 1 a    11  of a ^couple of 'hundred p\ounds# .                / 
11 2  23 2880 1 2 a    11  ^well of 'course the !two hundred and :fifty       / 
11 2  23 2880 1 1 a    11  p\ounds#                                           / 
11 2  23 2890 1 1 a    11  which the ^Labour 'government in:s\isted 'on# .    / 
11 2  23 2900 1 1 a    11  ^in I !th\ink#                                     / 
11 2  23 2910 1 1 a    11  ^nineteen :sixty-!six sixty-!s\even#               / 
11 2  23 2920 1 1 a    11  ^sixty-'seven I th/ink# -                          / 
11 2  23 2930 1 1 a    11  [@:m] . ^two hundred and 'fifty pounds ":n\/ow# -  / 
11 2  23 2940 1 1 a    11  ^if you !think of in!fl\/ationary 'terms#          / 
11 2  23 2950 1 2 a    11  should ^probably be 'nearer . [@] 'four            / 
11 2  23 2950 1 1 a    11  h\undred# - -                                      / 
11 2  23 2960 1 1 a    11  ^w/ell# .                                          / 
11 2  23 2970 1 1 a    11  they ^could of _course !d\o that#                  / 
11 2  23 2980 1 1 a    11  and ^put it !\up# .                                / 
11 2  23 2990 1 1 a    11  but I ^think 'much more :l\ikely#                  / 
11 2  23 3000 1 1 a    12  they`ll be^gin to ^going to be!gin to !l/ook# . -  / 
11 2  24 3010 1 1 a    11  at ^how _many . 'student 'foreign st/udents# .     / 
11 2  24 3020 1 1 a    11  the ^country ":sh\ould in f/act# .                 / 
11 2  24 3030 1 1 a    11  "^s\ubsidize#                                      / 
11 2  24 3040 1 1 a    11  be^{c\ause} let us !!f\ace it# -                   / 
11 2  24 3050 1 1 a    11  this is ^what we are !d\oing# -                    / 
11 2  24 3060 1 1 a    11  "^{n\ow} "!w\e 'think#                             / 
11 2  24 3070 1 2 a    11  that ^this is a :subsidy which is "!well "w\orth   / 
11 2  24 3070 1 1 a    11  it#                                                / 
11 2  24 3080 1 2 a    11  it`s ^well 'worth it in [i:] in un'intel"!l\ectual / 
11 2  24 3080 1 1 a    11  'terms . {((to)) be^g\in with#}# .                 / 
11 2  24 3090 1 1 a    11  and "^that is the 'thing that 'matters :m\ost# .   / 
11 2  24 3100 1 1 a    11  but it`s ^also :possibly w/orth it#                / 
11 2  24 3110 1 1 a    11  in ^econ!!\omic 'terms# .                          / 
11 2  24 3120 1 2 a    11  because ^many of the post'graduate 'students who   / 
11 2  24 3120 1 1 a    11  'come . to this 'country to w\ork# .               / 
11 2  24 3130 1 1 a    11  ^never forg\et# .                                  / 
11 2  25 3140 1 1 a    11  the ^time that 'they have h/ad# .                  / 
11 2  25 3150 1 1 a    11  and the ^benefits that 'they have :g=ained 'here# -/ 
11 2  25 3160 1 2 a    11  ^and . when they re!turn to their 'own             / 
11 2  25 3160 1 1 a    11  c\ountries# .                                      / 
11 2  25 3170 1 2 a    11  are ^very 'good . am"!b\assa_dors {for ^th\is      / 
11 2  25 3170 1 1 a    11  'country#}# -                                      / 
11 2  25 3180 1 1 a    11  but ^these are in:t\angibles# .                    / 
11 2  25 3190 1 2 a    12  and when in^tangibles m=eet - - ^how shall I p\ut  / 
11 2  25 3190 1 1 a    12  it# - -                                            / 
11 2  25 3200 1 1 a    11  ^[dh\i:]# .                                        / 
11 2  25 3210 1 2 a    11  [@:m . dhi] ^{{gr\inding} - !{m\incing} ma:ch\ine} / 
11 2  25 3210 1 1 a    11  of :tr\easury . f/inance# -                        / 
11 2  25 3220 1 1 a    11  in^tangibles . disap:p\ear# -                      / 
11 2  25 3230 1 1 a    11  ^s\o#                                              / 
11 2  25 3240 1 1 a    11  it may "^well 'be that 'we shall :f=ind# .         / 
11 2  25 3250 1 1 a    11  that post^gr\aduate st/udents# .                   / 
11 2  26 3260 1 2 a    11  are ^one of the _next !t\argets {of the            / 
11 2  26 3260 1 1 a    11  ^g\overnment#}# - -                                / 
11 2  26 3270 1 1 a    11  and ^then if you s\ay#                             / 
11 2  26 3280 1 1 a    11  ^how is this . "!l\ife of the 'college#            / 
11 2  26 3290 1 1 a    11  ^going to be af!f\ected# -                         / 
11 2  26 3300 1 1 a    11  ^in its :ordinary 'working cond\i'tions# -         / 
11 2  26 3310 1 1 a    11  ^w/ell#                                            / 
11 2  26 3320 1 1 a    11  ^one of the 'things of c/ourse#                    / 
11 2  26 3330 1 1 a    11  that ^students are 'going to :f\ind it#            / 
11 2  26 3340 1 1 a    11  as I((`ve)) ^s\aid#                                / 
11 2  26 3350 1 1 a    11  ^very 'hard to !d/o# .                             / 
11 2  26 3360 1 2 a    11  is to ^find the :money to 'pay . 'for . ['dhi:] .  / 
11 2  26 3360 1 1 a    11  :ch/arges#                                         / 
11 2  26 3370 1 1 a    11  which are ^{m/ade} the f/ees#                      / 
11 2  26 3380 1 1 a    11  in the ^halls of !r\esidence# - .                  / 
11 2  26 3390 1 2 a    11  and "^this is 'going to 'be a :very _difficult     / 
11 2  26 3390 1 1 a    11  "!pr\oblem# -                                      / 
11 2  27 3400 1 2 a    11  be^cause of !course there is al"!ready a great     / 
11 2  27 3400 1 1 a    11  !imb\alance# .                                     / 
11 2  27 3410 1 2 a    11  be^tween what a !student [@: @] 'has to :{p\ay} 'if/ 
11 2  27 3410 1 1 a    11  he`s in "!l\odgings# -                             / 
11 2  27 3420 1 1 a    12  ^and what he !has to 'pay a ^very !sm\aller s/um# ./ 
11 2  27 3430 1 1 a    11  ^if he 'is in a :hall of :r\esidence# .            / 
11 2  27 3440 1 1 a    11  the ^whole of the :ratio!n\/ale# .                 / 
11 2  27 3450 1 1 a    11  ^of 'our . :student fin/ance# .                    / 
11 2  27 3460 1 1 a    11  is ^going to disap!p\ear# -                        / 
11 2  27 3470 1 1 a    11  and ^then what a'bout the re:f\ectory# -           / 
11 2  27 3480 1 1 a    11  ^here we /are# .                                   / 
11 2  27 3490 1 1 a    11  we have en^{j/oyed} the d/inner# -                 / 
11 2  27 3500 1 2 a    11  [@ ?] . ((the)) ^best we can "!g\ive you this      / 
11 2  27 3500 1 1 a    11  /evening# .                                        / 
11 2  28 3510 1 1 a    11  but I "^hope not ":t\otally in/adequate# -         / 
11 2  28 3520 1 1 a    11  but ^how 'are 'we g\oing 'to#                      / 
11 2  28 3530 1 1 a    11  be ^able to :go \on# - -                           / 
11 2  28 3540 1 1 a    11  ^having a re:{f\ectory of} this k\ind# -           / 
11 2  28 3550 1 1 a    11  "^n\ow# .                                          / 
11 2  28 3560 1 1 a    11  "^w\e perh/aps#                                    / 
11 2  28 3570 1 2 a    11  will be ^able . to af'ford to :p\ay ((for          / 
11 2  28 3570 1 1 a    11  this))# - -                                        / 
11 2  28 3580 1 1 a    11  but ^are we 'not ap:proaching the t/ime# - -       / 
11 2  28 3590 1 2 a    11  when a ^totally !d\ifferent 'way {of ^l\ooking at  / 
11 2  28 3590 1 1 a    11  'things#}# .                                       / 
11 2  28 3600 1 1 a    11  is ^going to c\ome# -                              / 
11 2  28 3610 1 1 a    11  a^bout ref\ectories# .                             / 
11 2  28 3620 1 2 a    11  when re"^fectories are :going to 'be . [@] !places / 
11 2  28 3620 1 1 a    11  wh/ere# .                                          / 
11 2  28 3630 1 1 a    11  ^food - 'pre"fr\/ozen# -                           / 
11 2  29 3640 1 1 a    11  is ^brought !\/into the es'tablishment# .          / 
11 2  29 3650 1 1 a    11  and ^then !warmed _up . and s/erved# - .           / 
11 2  29 3660 1 1 a    11  to the ^mass - [@] re'fectory 'popul\ation# - -    / 
11 2  29 3670 1 2 a    11  in which "^all the :great tra'dition in :this      / 
11 2  29 3670 1 1 a    11  pl\ace# .                                          / 
11 2  29 3680 1 1 a    11  ^=and# .                                           / 
11 2  29 3690 1 2 a    11  ^I have a . !great . 'greatest !p\ossible          / 
11 2  29 3690 1 1 a    11  {^admir\ation#}# .                                 / 
11 2  29 3700 1 1 a    11  ^for Mrs . :H\ardel#                               / 
11 2  29 3710 1 1 a    11  who looks "^\after 'our {re^f\ectories#}# .        / 
11 2  29 3720 1 1 a    11  ^and who !looks \after#                            / 
11 2  29 3730 1 2 a    11  much ^more than our re{f\ectories} but 'our        / 
11 2  29 3730 1 1 a    11  re'fectory st\aff# -                               / 
11 2  29 3740 1 1 a    11  ((of)) ^somebody who :h=as# - -                    / 
11 2  29 3750 1 1 a    11  ^is it a _dirty _w/ord#                            / 
11 2  30 3760 1 1 a    11  a pa"^{t\ernalist} :v\iew# .                       / 
11 2  30 3770 1 1 a    11  or a "^m\aternalist 'view#                         / 
11 2  30 3780 1 1 a    11  to^w\ards#                                         / 
11 2  30 3790 1 1 a    11  ^those who w\ork#                                  / 
11 2  30 3800 1 1 a    11  in ^very _hard con!d\itions# .                     / 
11 2  30 3810 1 1 a    11  ^s\ometimes#                                       / 
11 2  30 3820 1 1 a    11  in ^L\ondon#                                       / 
11 2  30 3830 1 1 a    11  ^very 'hard con!d\itions# .                        / 
11 2  30 3840 1 1 a    11  ^in this pl\ace# -                                 / 
11 2  30 3850 1 2 a    11  ^and who`s "!always the :friend and ad'viser and   / 
11 2  30 3850 1 1 a    11  c\ounsellor#                                       / 
11 2  30 3860 1 1 a    11  of "^any 'member 'of her st\aff# .                 / 
11 2  30 3870 1 1 a    11  is ^this going 'to . disapp/ear# - .               / 
11 2  30 3880 1 3 a    11  because ^these are :some of the :things which      / 
11 2  30 3880 1 2 a    11  'we`re [?] . we`re we`re 'going to be :up a'gainst / 
11 2  30 3880 1 1 a    11  I 'think in the 'next few y\ears# .                / 
11 2  31 3890 1 1 a    11  we`re ^going to be !up a'gainst - . [ei] dem/and# -/ 
11 2  31 3900 1 1 a    11  ^not merely ((a)) de!mand the ne"!c\essity# -      / 
11 2  31 3910 1 3 a    13  for "^all the 'insti'tutions on the :Bloomsbury [@:/ 
11 2  31 3910 1 2 a    13  @ @ @ @] on the ^[blu:?] in the ^Bloomsbury        / 
11 2  31 3910 1 1 a    13  :\area# - .                                        / 
11 2  31 3920 1 1 a    11  to "^rationa'lize their ref\ectories# - .          / 
11 2  31 3930 1 1 a    11  ^so that we 'may have B/irkbeck#                   / 
11 2  31 3940 1 1 a    11  we ^may have S/OAS#                                / 
11 2  31 3950 1 1 a    11  we ^may have all !s\orts of 'people# .             / 
11 2  31 3960 1 1 a    11  per^haps coming !!h\ere . {to ^\eat#}# -           / 
11 2  31 3970 1 2 a    11  now ^this would be !very pl\easant I`m             / 
11 2  31 3970 1 1 a    11  :{^s\ure#}# -                                      / 
11 2  31 3980 1 2 a    11  [@:m - @? @] ^what we`ve 'got to [we] im/agine     / 
11 2  31 3980 1 1 a    11  {^/is of 'course#}# .                              / 
11 2  32 3990 1 2 a    11  ^that we have !got to . _find 'places . for ((or)) / 
11 2  32 3990 1 1 a    11  :ways \of# .                                       / 
11 2  32 4000 1 1 a    11  ^cutting :d\own# .                                 / 
11 2  32 4010 1 1 a    11  the e^normous c\osts . {which it ^t\akes#}# .      / 
11 2  32 4020 1 2 a    11  which but ^which were . !thought to 'be "!integral / 
11 2  32 4020 1 1 a    11  'to - the 'well-being of a s\ociety# - - .         / 
11 2  32 4030 1 2 a    11  ^I 'hope as :we are 'one of the :l\arger           / 
11 2  32 4030 1 1 a    11  instit/utions#                                     / 
11 2  32 4040 1 1 a    11  that ^we shall not :s\uffer by 'this# .            / 
11 2  32 4050 1 1 a    11  but it ^might well !b\e#                           / 
11 2  32 4060 1 1 a    11  that ^\other 'insti'tutions# .                     / 
11 2  32 4070 1 1 a    11  ^in the 'centre of :L\ondon# .                     / 
11 2  33 4080 1 2 a    11  [@] ^will . 'have to 'change . their [?] their     / 
11 2  33 4080 1 1 a    11  i:d\eas# .                                         / 
11 2  33 4090 1 2 a    11  and I`m "^sure this is _going to be 'brought :h\ome/ 
11 2  33 4090 1 1 a    11  to us# -                                           / 
11 2  33 4100 1 1 a    11  because ^only just !r\ecently# .                   / 
11 2  33 4110 1 1 a    11  ^l/\iterally#                                      / 
11 2  33 4120 1 1 a    11  I ^mean a _few _days a!g\o# -                      / 
11 2  33 4130 1 1 a    11  ^the of:f/icials#                                  / 
11 2  33 4140 1 1 a    11  of the ^Comp'troller and 'Auditor G/eneral# .      / 
11 2  33 4150 1 1 a    11  ^left the :c\ollege#                               / 
11 2  33 4160 1 1 a    11  ^now as you 'well re:m\ember# -                    / 
11 2  33 4170 1 1 a    11  [@] ^some {y/ears} ag/o {a^g/ain#}#                / 
11 2  33 4180 1 1 a    12  ^in [_dhi:] the ^nineteen s/ixties# -              / 
11 2  33 4190 1 1 a    11  the ^government dec/ided# .                        / 
11 2  33 4200 1 2 a    13  that ^universities were !spending ^they were ^they / 
11 2  33 4200 1 1 a    13  were [?@] :spending 'so much 'public m\/oney# .    / 
11 2  34 4210 1 2 a    11  that they ^ought to be 'subject to the :same . [@:]/ 
11 2  34 4210 1 1 a    11  contr/ols# .                                       / 
11 2  34 4220 1 1 a    11  ^as all :other great sp\enders# -                  / 
11 2  34 4230 1 1 a    11  ^and that "!P\arliament`s#                         / 
11 2  34 4240 1 1 a    11  ^not the !G\overnment`s#                           / 
11 2  34 4250 1 1 a    11  ^Parliament`s w\atch-'dog# .                       / 
11 2  34 4260 1 2 a    11  the ^Comptroller and :Auditor !General`s . [@ @]   / 
11 2  34 4260 1 1 a    11  st\aff# .                                          / 
11 2  34 4270 1 1 a    11  should ^come \/in#                                 / 
11 2  34 4280 1 2 a    11  and ^make a re:port to the :public ac'counts       / 
11 2  34 4280 1 1 a    11  com:m\ittee# -                                     / 
11 2  34 4290 1 1 a    11  ^w/ell#                                            / 
11 2  34 4300 1 1 a    11  ^they have :b/een 'here#                           / 
11 2  34 4310 1 1 a    11  and [@] ^course we`ve re:ceived 'nothing off/icial#/ 
11 2  34 4320 1 2 a    11  but I ^under!stand that . [dhi:@] . v/isit {as     / 
11 2  34 4320 1 1 a    11  ^/usual#}#                                         / 
11 2  34 4330 1 1 a    11  has ^been ex:tremely h/appy#                       / 
11 2  34 4340 1 1 a    11  but they have ^not been very :happy to !f\ind#     / 
11 2  35 4350 1 1 a    11  that ^we have . a thirty 'thousand d/eficit# .     / 
11 2  35 4360 1 1 a    11  [@:] ^on our re!f\ectory# - -                      / 
11 2  35 4370 1 2 a    11  ^and they have be'gun to _talk about !p\ortion     / 
11 2  35 4370 1 1 a    11  con'trol# .                                        / 
11 2  35 4380 1 2 a    11  and ^they have be'gun to 'talk a'bout all s/orts of/ 
11 2  35 4380 1 1 a    11  'things#                                           / 
11 2  35 4390 1 1 a    11  ^now 'I as"!s\ure you# .                           / 
11 2  35 4400 1 2 a    11  that ^when the !Comp'troller and :Auditor          / 
11 2  35 4400 1 1 a    11  'General`s _staff _c/ome here# .                   / 
11 2  35 4410 1 1 a    11  we ^give them the !warm _sh\oulder# -              / 
11 2  35 4420 1 1 a    11  ^we are en!thusi'astic in :h=elping 'them# .       / 
11 2  35 4430 1 1 a    11  ^=and [@:]#                                        / 
11 2  35 4440 1 1 a    11  ^doing "!everything we c/an# .                     / 
11 2  35 4450 1 1 a    12  [@] ^to to to ^make them 'feel at h\ome# -         / 
11 2  35 4460 1 2 a    11  [@:] ^but [@] . we can !give them the 'warm        / 
11 2  35 4460 1 1 a    11  sh\oulder#                                         / 
11 2  36 4470 1 2 a    11  but they ^may 'make a 'kind of re'port which will  / 
11 2  36 4470 1 1 a    11  !!f\orce us to ch/ange# .                          / 
11 2  36 4480 1 1 a    11  our our our ^style of :l\ife# - -                  / 
11 2  36 4490 1 2 a    11  ^then 'what is the ef'fect of 'this in'flation     / 
11 2  36 4490 1 1 a    11  'going to 'be on 'aca'demic st\aff# -              / 
11 2  36 4500 1 1 a    11  ^academic st/aff# .                                / 
11 2  36 4510 1 2 a    12  "^are . ^I will !tell you "one 'change it has      / 
11 2  36 4510 1 1 a    12  al"r\eady 'made . {in^fl\ation#}# .                / 
11 2  36 4520 1 1 a    11  ^that \is#                                         / 
11 2  36 4530 1 2 a    11  the ex"^treme {d\ifficulty} of re!cruiting from    / 
11 2  36 4530 1 1 a    11  ":\outside#                                        / 
11 2  36 4540 1 1 a    11  ^when there !\is a v/acant 'job# .                 / 
11 2  36 4550 1 1 a    11  from "^outside L\ondon#                            / 
11 2  36 4560 1 1 a    11  the ^difficulty of re_cruiting 'academic st\aff# - / 
11 2  37 4570 1 1 a    11  "^{wh\y} sh\ould 'somebody m/ove {^h/ere#}# .      / 
11 2  37 4580 1 1 a    11  when he ^has to 'pay !f\ifty 'thousand p/ounds#    / 
11 2  37 4590 1 1 a    11  or "^thirty 'thousand :pounds for a h\ouse# -      / 
11 2  37 4600 1 2 a    11  and ^when the re!moval ex'penses :run into .       / 
11 2  37 4600 1 1 a    11  "{th\ousands of} :p\ounds# -                       / 
11 2  37 4610 1 2 a    11  in which ^we can 'only 'help . a 'small            / 
11 2  37 4610 1 1 a    11  am\ount# - - .                                     / 
11 2  37 4620 1 1 a    11  ^\and#                                             / 
11 2  37 4630 1 1 a    11  ^this is a !very :serious !th\ing# .               / 
11 2  37 4640 1 1 a    11  when ^any uni'versity :feels its\elf# .            / 
11 2  37 4650 1 1 a    11  ^as it w\ere# .                                    / 
11 2  37 4660 1 1 a    11  cut "^off from re'cruitment from outs\/ide# .      / 
11 2  37 4670 1 2 a    11  it ^isn`t that we !{h\aven`t 'got} 'good p\eople   / 
11 2  37 4670 1 1 a    11  :{^\in'side#}#                                     / 
11 2  38 4680 1 1 a    11  who can ^h/\elp#                                   / 
11 2  38 4690 1 1 a    12  ((and)) ^who can . [@: @ @ @] . ^who can suc!c\eed#/ 
11 2  38 4700 1 1 a    11  to the ^jobs as 'they become v\acant# .            / 
11 2  38 4710 1 1 a    11  but ^if over the !y\ears#                          / 
11 2  38 4720 1 1 a    11  we be^c\ame# .                                     / 
11 2  38 4730 1 1 a    11  ^simply :in!br\ed# .                               / 
11 2  38 4740 1 1 a    11  it would be di^s\/astrous I 'think# .              / 
11 2  38 4750 1 1 a    11  (([@])) from an ^aca!d\emic 'point of 'view# - -   / 
11 2  38 4760 1 1 a    11  a^g\ain# -                                         / 
11 2  38 4770 1 1 a    11  ^is it "{f/anciful} to "th/ink# .                  / 
11 2  38 4780 1 2 a    11  that ^just as !students may 'have to :work . in -  / 
11 2  38 4780 1 1 a    11  the vac/ations# -                                  / 
11 2  38 4790 1 1 a    11  and ^possibly !even in !!t\erm-time# -             / 
11 2  38 4800 1 1 a    11  ^is it f/anci'ful# - -                             / 
11 2  38 4810 1 1 a    11  to ^c\ontemplate the t/ime# .                      / 
11 2  39 4820 1 1 a    11  which is of ^c/\ourse# .                           / 
11 2  39 4830 1 1 a    11  "^absolutely !taken for "!gr\anted#                / 
11 2  39 4840 1 1 a    11  in ^\Italy# - - -                                  / 
11 2  39 4850 1 1 a    11  ^or in :South A!m\erica# - - .                     / 
11 2  39 4860 1 2 a    11  that a ^member of 'academic 'staff has ":tw\o      / 
11 2  39 4860 1 1 a    11  j/obs# - - -                                       / 
11 2  39 4870 1 1 a    11  ^these are 'some of the f/ears# -                  / 
11 2  39 4880 1 1 a    11  which ^come to my m\ind# - -                       / 
11 2  39 4890 1 1 a    11  a^g/ain our !b\uilding 'programme# .               / 
11 2  39 4900 1 1 a    11  ^h\ere#                                            / 
11 2  39 4910 1 1 a    11  as I I [w@sh] ^quite s/ure# .                      / 
11 2  39 4920 1 1 a    11  we shall ^find this . post!p\oned# .               / 
11 2  39 4930 1 1 a    11  ^will it 'be in"evitably postp/oned# .             / 
11 2  39 4940 1 1 a    11  the ^whole pr\/ogramme#                            / 
11 2  39 4950 1 1 a    11  of ^re'building this :c\/ollege# .                 / 
11 2  39 4960 1 1 a    11  ^as it should b/e# -                               / 
11 2  40 4970 1 1 a    11  ^{\and} !\/also#                                   / 
11 2  40 4980 1 1 a    11  of pro^viding the 'new 'medical . sch/ool# - - .   / 
11 2  40 4990 1 1 a    11  "^w/ell# .                                         / 
11 2  40 5000 1 1 a    11  ^these are th/ings# .                              / 
11 2  40 5010 1 1 a    11  ^which we`ve 'got to f\ace# - -                    / 
11 2  40 5020 1 2 a    11  ^what ef_fect is _this going to _have on the       / 
11 2  40 5020 1 1 a    11  ex_pansion of :student n\umbers# -                 / 
11 2  40 5030 1 1 a    11  ^I sus:{p\ect} mys\elf# - - -                      / 
11 2  40 5040 1 1 a    11  ^that - when !last year 'I was :talking ab\out# .  / 
11 2  40 5050 1 1 a    11  the ^fact that 'we had :pl\ans for exp/ansion# .   / 
11 2  40 5060 1 1 a    11  when ^I was !talking a!bout . the un!\ease# .      / 
11 2  40 5070 1 1 a    11  which "^some 'members of :aca'demic !staff h/\ad# ./ 
11 2  40 5080 1 1 a    11  a^bout . a con"!tinual ex:pansion !pr\ogramme# - - / 
11 2  41 5090 1 2 a    11  ^I sus!pect ((that)) this 'problem is going to     / 
11 2  41 5090 1 1 a    11  :solve itself :very \easily# -                     / 
11 2  41 5100 1 1 a    11  ^/I . "w\/onder#                                   / 
11 2  41 5110 1 1 a    11  ^whether _we have :not yet :{n\ow} !r\eached# .    / 
11 2  41 5120 1 1 a    11  ^purely on fi"!!n\ancial 'grounds# -               / 
11 2  41 5130 1 2 a    11  ^more or :l\ess the {^l\imit#} . {^of              / 
11 2  41 5130 1 1 a    11  exp\ansion#}# - -                                  / 
11 2  41 5140 1 1 a    11  ^and that for !many 'years to :c\ome# .            / 
11 2  41 5150 1 1 a    11  we shall ^s\ee# .                                  / 
11 2  41 5160 1 1 a    11  ^not a _great sig"!n\ificant incr/ease# -          / 
11 2  41 5170 1 1 a    11  if ^not in the :univ\ersities#                     / 
11 2  41 5180 1 1 a    11  at ^any 'rate in the 'Uni'versity of L\ondon# .    / 
11 2  41 5190 1 1 a    11  ^these 'things \are# .                             / 
11 2  41 5200 1 1 a    11  I ^don`t {w\ant} to progn\osti'cate# .             / 
11 2  42 5210 1 1 a    11  be^cause [p@] !curious thing \is#                  / 
11 2  42 5220 1 1 a    11  that there is ^always a p\aradox# -                / 
11 2  42 5230 1 1 a    12  [@] . ^[paer@!d\oksik] I ^mean [i i] in th\eory# . / 
11 2  42 5240 1 1 a    11  ^one could s/ay#                                   / 
11 2  42 5250 1 2 a    11  the ^University of 'London is the "!l\ast 'place in/ 
11 2  42 5250 1 1 a    11  the c/ountry# .                                    / 
11 2  42 5260 1 2 a    11  which if ^any ex:pansion in :uni'versities is      / 
11 2  42 5260 1 1 a    11  !g\/oing# .                                        / 
11 2  42 5270 1 1 a    11  there ^should be ex!p\ansion in# .                 / 
11 2  42 5280 1 1 a    11  ^after \all#                                       / 
11 2  42 5290 1 1 a    11  we [au] ^l\arge 'numbers 'here alr/eady# .         / 
11 2  42 5300 1 1 a    11  we are ^very 'crowded 'on our s/ites# -            / 
11 2  42 5310 1 1 a    11  ^everybody kn\ows this# -                          / 
11 2  42 5320 1 1 a    11  and ^yet it may !well be "!ch\eaper# -             / 
11 2  43 5330 1 1 a    11  to ^put the "!very "!f\ew 'students# -             / 
11 2  43 5340 1 2 a    11  ^which [dhi:] :country can af!f\ord to [@:] .      / 
11 2  43 5340 1 1 a    11  h/ave#                                             / 
11 2  43 5350 1 1 a    11  ^as an !\increase# .                               / 
11 2  43 5360 1 1 a    11  ^in the :numbers in 'univ/ersities# .              / 
11 2  43 5370 1 1 a    11  in ^L\/ondon# -                                    / 
11 2  43 5380 1 1 a    11  ^rather than in :other pl\aces# -                  / 
11 2  43 5390 1 1 a    11  ^if they are 'very !f\ew# .                        / 
11 2  43 5400 1 1 a    11  but of "^c\ourse#                                  / 
11 2  43 5410 1 1 a    11  if there is ^any _question of "!!b\uildings# .     / 
11 2  43 5420 1 1 a    11  or ^\anything like :th/at#                         / 
11 2  43 5430 1 1 a    11  ^then . of c=ourse#                                / 
11 2  43 5440 1 1 a    11  this would ^naturally be :\out# - .                / 
11 2  43 5450 1 1 a    11  "^w/ell#                                           / 
11 2  43 5460 1 1 a    11  ^have we 'reached the :{\end of} ex:p\ansion# .    / 
11 2  43 5470 1 1 a    11  ^nobody can s/ay#                                  / 
11 2  43 5480 1 1 a    11  but ^neverthel\ess# .                              / 
11 2  43 5490 1 1 a    11  ^this is on the c\ards# -                          / 
11 2  44 5500 1 1 a    11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 2  44 5510 1 1 a    11  "^such is [dhi:@] . :general :over:all !p\icture# ./ 
11 2  44 5520 1 1 a    11  of the ef"^f\ect of ex:{^p\ansion#}#               / 
11 2  44 5530 1 1 a    11  [@n@] of of the ef^fect of infl\ation# .           / 
11 2  44 5540 1 1 a    11  up^\/on uni'versities# .                           / 
11 2  44 5550 1 1 a    11  which I`m ^trying to 'draw to:n\ight# - -          / 
11 2  44 5560 1 1 a    11  now ^y\/ou may 'say#                               / 
11 2  44 5570 1 1 a    11  ((well)) ^r\eally#                                 / 
11 2  44 5580 1 1 a    11  ^this is a most "!craven sp\eech# - - .            / 
11 2  44 5590 1 1 a    11  "^h\ere you /are# .                                / 
11 2  44 5600 1 1 a    11  ad^mitting that :higher 'educ/ation#               / 
11 2  44 5610 1 1 a    11  ^has the "!lowest pri/ority#                       / 
11 2  44 5620 1 2 a    11  of "^any k\ind . {of ^government                   / 
11 2  44 5620 1 1 a    11  ex:p\enditure#}# - - -                             / 
11 2  44 5630 1 1 a    11  "^w=ell# - - -                                     / 
11 2  44 5640 1 1 a    11  ^I have !th\is to 'say# .                          / 
11 2  44 5650 1 1 a    11  ^first of \all#                                    / 
11 2  45 5660 1 1 a    11  this "^s\eems to be a v/iew#                       / 
11 2  45 5670 1 2 a    11  which is ^now 'held 'by [dhi:] :present 'Secretary / 
11 2  45 5670 1 1 a    11  of _State for Edu:c\ation# -                       / 
11 2  45 5680 1 1 a    11  and ^y\/ou may 'say#                               / 
11 2  45 5690 1 1 a    11  ^well if he !h\/olds that 'view# .                 / 
11 2  45 5700 1 1 a    11  ^isn`t it 'up to y/ou#                             / 
11 2  45 5710 1 1 a    11  to ^change his :m/\ind# - - -                      / 
11 2  45 5720 1 2 a    11  well ^what "{sh\ould uni_versities :{^d\o#}} about / 
11 2  45 5720 1 1 a    11  'trying to 'change ((his)) :m\ind# -               / 
11 2  45 5730 1 1 a    11  [@m] . ^they [?] 'are acc\/used# .                 / 
11 2  45 5740 1 1 a    11  ^qu\ite underst/andably#                           / 
11 2  45 5750 1 1 a    11  by ^v\ery many p/eople# .                          / 
11 2  45 5760 1 1 a    11  of ^being ex'tremely :cr\aven# .                   / 
11 2  45 5770 1 2 a    11  ^that the com:mittee of vice-'chancellors and      / 
11 2  45 5770 1 1 a    11  !pr=incipals# .                                    / 
11 2  45 5780 1 1 a    11  ^ought to 'be a b/ody# .                           / 
11 2  46 5790 1 1 a    11  of e^normous "p\ower# .                            / 
11 2  46 5800 1 1 a    11  ^f\orce# .                                         / 
11 2  46 5810 1 1 a    11  ^dr\ive# .                                         / 
11 2  46 5820 1 1 a    11  in^\itiative# - .                                  / 
11 2  46 5830 1 1 a    11  and ^\is it# .                                     / 
11 2  46 5840 1 1 a    11  well ^I have 'been for the 'last two y/ears# .     / 
11 2  46 5850 1 1 a    11  [@] vice-^ch\airman of 'that b/ody#                / 
11 2  46 5860 1 1 a    11  and ^no !l\onger 'after th/is year#                / 
11 2  46 5870 1 1 a    11  it`s a ^purely . :changeable [@ . @] !\office# .   / 
11 2  46 5880 1 3 a    11  and I can as"^sure you that the com'mittee of      / 
11 2  46 5880 1 2 a    11  vice-'chancellors . is ":n\/one of 'those          / 
11 2  46 5880 1 1 a    11  th\ings# - -                                       / 
11 2  46 5890 1 1 a    11  ^[dhi:] com!m\/ittee of vice-'chancellors# .       / 
11 2  46 5900 1 1 a    11  will "^\always#                                    / 
11 2  46 5910 1 1 a    11  it ^seems to m\/e#                                 / 
11 2  46 5920 1 1 a    11  ^probably b/e# .                                   / 
11 2  46 5930 1 2 a    11  the ^body . which re:sponds to the :lowest 'common / 
11 2  46 5930 1 1 a    11  de:n\ominator#                                     / 
11 2  47 5940 1 1 a    11  [@] of of ^\action# -                              / 
11 2  47 5950 1 1 a    11  and "^y\et# -                                      / 
11 2  47 5960 1 1 a    11  I "^do 'sometimes :\ask my'self# .                 / 
11 2  47 5970 1 1 a    11  when I ^th\/ink of that 'body#                     / 
11 2  47 5980 1 1 a    11  and "^how do I th\ink of it# .                     / 
11 2  47 5990 1 1 a    11  I ^think of them as :s\ometimes as a b/ody# - -    / 
11 2  47 6000 1 2 a    12  in ^which [@m . @ @ @ @ @ dh@ dh@] they have ^many / 
11 2  47 6000 1 1 a    12  m\erits# -                                         / 
11 2  47 6010 1 1 a    11  [@m . @] there is "^nothing that they con:s\ider# ./ 
11 2  47 6020 1 1 a    11  [@: @:] that they ^do not adj\ourn# -              / 
11 2  47 6030 1 1 a    20  [@]                                                / 
11 2  47 6040 1 1 aud  20  +(laughter - - )+                                  / 
11 2  47 6050 1 1 a    11  +[@] there is ^really _absolutely+ !n\/othing# .   / 
11 2  47 6060 1 2 a    11  [@m] ^which they will !not try and pro:crastinate  / 
11 2  47 6060 1 1 a    11  from an :\issue# .                                 / 
11 2  47 6070 1 1 a    11  and ^y=et# .                                       / 
11 2  48 6080 1 1 a    11  ^if you s\ay to yourselves# .                      / 
11 2  48 6090 1 1 a    11  what "^c\ould they d/o# .                          / 
11 2  48 6100 1 1 a    11  I ^think we`ve 'got to p\/ause#                    / 
11 2  48 6110 1 1 a    11  and ^\ask#                                         / 
11 2  48 6120 1 1 a    11  now ^what in "f\act {^c\an#}#                      / 
11 2  48 6130 1 1 a    11  the vice-^chancellors at the 'moment d\o# - -      / 
11 2  48 6140 1 1 a    11  ^years ag/\o#                                      / 
11 2  48 6150 1 1 a    12  in the ^old[?] ^wicked old d/ays#                  / 
11 2  48 6160 1 1 a    11  of the [w] ^interwar y/ears# - -                   / 
11 2  48 6170 1 1 a    11  I ^th=ink it was at _Oxford !N\ew College#         / 
11 2  48 6180 1 2 a    11  [@:] there was an ^under'graduate who (([du:d]))   / 
11 2  48 6180 1 1 a    11  :absolutely :no 'work at !\all# .                  / 
11 2  48 6190 1 1 a    11  ^in his 'history sch\ools# -                       / 
11 2  48 6200 1 2 a    11  and was in^capable of _answering "!any             / 
11 2  48 6200 1 1 a    11  !qu\estion# .                                      / 
11 2  49 6210 1 2 a    11  [i i] ^when he was 'faced with the ex'amination    / 
11 2  49 6210 1 1 a    11  :p\apers# .                                        / 
11 2  49 6220 1 2 a    11  but there was "^one 'question which he :d\id       / 
11 2  49 6220 1 1 a    11  at'tempt# -                                        / 
11 2  49 6230 1 1 a    11  which ^w\as the 'question 'of [@m]# .              / 
11 2  49 6240 1 1 a    11  ^what were the re:l\/ations#                       / 
11 2  49 6250 1 2 a    11  of E^lizabeth the 'First with her                  / 
11 2  49 6250 1 1 a    11  ":p\arliaments# - .                                / 
11 2  49 6260 1 1 a    11  ^=and# .                                           / 
11 2  49 6270 1 1 a    11  he ^wrote 'one s\entence#                          / 
11 2  49 6280 1 1 a    11  which ^s/aid# -                                    / 
11 2  49 6290 1 1 a    11  E^lizabeth the 'First`s :p\arliaments# .           / 
11 2  49 6300 1 1 a    11  de^manded that she ab=olish# .                     / 
11 2  49 6310 1 1 a    11  ^tonnage and :p\oundage# -                         / 
11 2  49 6320 1 1 a    11  ^but the !noble 'creature stood f\irm#             / 
11 2  49 6330 1 1 aud  20  ( - - laughter)                                    / 
11 2  49 6340 1 1(a    11  ^w\ell 'now# .                                     / 
11 2  49 6350 1 2 a    11  ^should the vice-'chancellors be :standing "!f\irm / 
11 2  49 6350 1 1 a    11  at :{^th\is point#}#                               / 
11 2  50 6360 1 1 aud  20  ( - laughter)                                      / 
11 2  50 6370 1 1(a    11  the ^point \is#                                    / 
11 2  50 6380 1 1 a    11  ^if you 'really \ask yourselves#                   / 
11 2  50 6390 1 1 a    11  ^what the [vi@] vice-'chancellors c\an do# .       / 
11 2  50 6400 1 1 a    11  it ^is 'really 'very :l\ittle# -                   / 
11 2  50 6410 1 2 a    11  because ^what of 'course the vice-:ch\ancellors    / 
11 2  50 6410 1 1 a    11  _work on#                                          / 
11 2  50 6420 1 2 a    11  and in^deed we "!\/all 'work on in the             / 
11 2  50 6420 1 1 a    11  'uni'versity#                                      / 
11 2  50 6430 1 1 a    11  is what ^I would c/all# - - -                      / 
11 2  50 6440 1 1 a    11  [dhi:] ^theory of bureaucr/atic# -                 / 
11 2  50 6450 1 1 a    11  [@] pro^c\edures# -                                / 
11 2  50 6460 1 1 a    11  [?@i] ^very 'much el/aborated#                     / 
11 2  50 6470 1 1 a    11  by that ^great 'soci/ologist#                      / 
11 2  51 6480 1 1 a    11  at the be^ginning of this c/entury#                / 
11 2  51 6490 1 1 a    11  ^Max W\eber# - -                                   / 
11 2  51 6500 1 1 a    11  in ^wh\ich of c/ourse# .                           / 
11 2  51 6510 1 1 a    11  ^you pro'ceed by :rational \argument# .            / 
11 2  51 6520 1 1 a    11  and "^{\only} g\/ood 'arguments# .                 / 
11 2  51 6530 1 1 a    11  will ^get you :f/unds# -                           / 
11 2  51 6540 1 1 a    11  ^and if you 'put forward !b\/ad 'arguments#        / 
11 2  51 6550 1 1 a    11  they will "^n\ot . get you {^f\unds#}# - -         / 
11 2  51 6560 1 1 a    11  [@:m] . in^d\eed# -                                / 
11 2  51 6570 1 2 a    11  [@] a^gain I`m re'minded ((that)) of an\other      / 
11 2  51 6570 1 1 a    11  'thing#                                            / 
11 2  51 6580 1 1 a    11  that [@] ^happened . [@ @] I I I !think !r\ecently#/ 
11 2  51 6590 1 1 a    11  in the ^House of !L\ords# -                        / 
11 2  51 6600 1 1 a    11  ^where [@m] - - a !m\inister# .                    / 
11 2  51 6610 1 1 a    11  re^tiring from the ch\amber# .                     / 
11 2  51 6620 1 1 a    11  [@] "^dropped . his :depart'mental br\ief# .       / 
11 2  52 6630 1 1 a    11  and ^this was !picked \up# .                       / 
11 2  52 6640 1 1 a    11  and "^r\ead# -                                     / 
11 2  52 6650 1 1 a    11  ^and there was !one 'statement \in it#             / 
11 2  52 6660 1 2 a    11  of an ^argument in 'which he was _having to !{f\ace/ 
11 2  52 6660 1 1 a    11  you see} !qu\estions# -                            / 
11 2  52 6670 1 1 a    11  ^=and [@]#                                         / 
11 2  52 6680 1 1 a    11  there was "^one par:t\icular th/ing#               / 
11 2  52 6690 1 1 a    11  which ^read as !f\ollows# -                        / 
11 2  52 6700 1 1 a    11  ^this is a !!w\/eak 'argument# .                   / 
11 2  52 6710 1 2 a    11  but it ^should suf'fice for their 'Lordships`      / 
11 2  52 6710 1 1 a    11  H\ouse# .                                          / 
11 2  52 6720 1 1 aud  20  +( - - - laughter)+                                / 
11 2  52 6730 1 1(a    11  +^w=ell now# .                                     / 
11 2  52 6740 1 1 a    11  ^this is the k\/ind of 'thing you see#             / 
11 2  52 6750 1 1 a    11  which ^cuts+ no 'ice at !\all with the tr/easury#  / 
11 2  52 6760 1 1 a    11  if you`ve ^got a !w\/eak 'argument#                / 
11 2  52 6770 1 1 a    11  it "^simply "won`t "w\ork# - -                     / 
11 2  53 6780 1 1 a    11  ^and of c\ourse# -                                 / 
11 2  53 6790 1 1 a    11  I re^member in this !very r\oom# -                 / 
11 2  53 6800 1 2 a    11  [dhi:] re^tiring 'chairman of [dhi:]               / 
11 2  53 6800 1 1 a    11  :vice-'chancellors comm\ittee#                     / 
11 2  53 6810 1 1 a    11  ^Kenneth B\errill# -                               / 
11 2  53 6820 1 1 a    11  [@ . i?is] ^getting \up# .                         / 
11 2  53 6830 1 1 a    11  ^and !th\/anking the 'vice-'chancellors#           / 
11 2  53 6840 1 1 a    11  for ^all that :they had :done for :h/im#           / 
11 2  53 6850 1 1 a    11  and ^he !hoped he`d helped :th/em# .               / 
11 2  53 6860 1 1 a    11  ^=and [@:m]#                                       / 
11 2  53 6870 1 1 a    11  he ^said of !c\ourse# .                            / 
11 2  53 6880 1 1 a    11  to the ^\evident# .                                / 
11 2  53 6890 1 1 a    11  dis^c\omfort#                                      / 
11 2  53 6900 1 1 a    11  ^of his suc!c\essor#                               / 
11 2  53 6910 1 1 a    11  Sir ^Frederick !D\eighton# -                       / 
11 2  53 6920 1 3 a    12  he ^said of !course the !business of 'being        / 
11 2  53 6920 1 2 a    12  'chairman of the vice '[tsha:n?] of ^[dhi: @: j@]  / 
11 2  53 6920 1 1 a    12  'UG/C#                                             / 
11 2  54 6930 1 1 a    11  is an "^{\easy} :j\ob# -                           / 
11 2  54 6940 1 1 a    11  he said it((`s a)) "^t\otally 'easy j/ob# .        / 
11 2  54 6950 1 2 a    11  be^cause [@:m . @] I`m !dealing . with             / 
11 2  54 6950 1 1 a    11  vice-ch=ancellors# .                               / 
11 2  54 6960 1 1 a    11  ^on the wh\ole# .                                  / 
11 2  54 6970 1 2 a    11  they "^\absolutely under'stand 'what the 'problems / 
11 2  54 6970 1 1 a    11  /are#                                              / 
11 2  54 6980 1 1 a    11  they "^kn\ow#                                      / 
11 2  54 6990 1 1 a    11  that there are ^certain 'arguments which w/ork#    / 
11 2  54 7000 1 1 a    11  and ^certain 'arguments which !w\on`t 'work# .     / 
11 2  54 7010 1 2 a    11  and he said of ^course . [?] 'if they w/on`t       / 
11 2  54 7010 1 1 a    11  'work# -                                           / 
11 2  54 7020 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 2  54 7030 1 1 a    11  we are ^in a!gr\eement#                            / 
11 2  54 7040 1 1 a    11  that ^nothing can be !d\one# -                     / 
11 2  54 7050 1 3 a    11  he ^said of !course !very 'different from a        / 
11 2  54 7050 1 2 a    11  :vice-'chancellor 'talking to his 'heads of        / 
11 2  54 7050 1 1 a    11  dep\artments# .                                    / 
11 2  55 7060 1 1 a    11  I ^couldn`t have a'greed m\ore#                    / 
11 2  55 7070 1 1 aud  20  ( . +- -+ laughter)                                / 
11 2  55 7080 1 1(a    12  +[@m] -+ ^but - . you ^kn=ow# .                    / 
11 2  55 7090 1 2 a    11  this "^\is {one of the ^difficulties that one`s    / 
11 2  55 7090 1 1 a    11  :\up a'gainst#}# .                                 / 
11 2  55 7100 1 1 a    11  [i?] . that there ^\/are 'certain 'arguments#      / 
11 2  55 7110 1 1 a    11  ^which will w/ork#                                 / 
11 2  55 7120 1 1 a    11  ^and they will !work in 'times of prosp\erity# -   / 
11 2  55 7130 1 1 a    11  ^in of :course the !times that 'we`re in n=ow# .   / 
11 2  55 7140 1 1 a    11  they ^{d\on`t work} at :\all# - .                  / 
11 2  55 7150 1 1 a    11  well ^what are the 'dangers 'that we f\ace# - -    / 
11 2  55 7160 1 1 a    11  ^\/I think we 'face#                               / 
11 2  55 7170 1 1 a    11  a ^n\umber of 'dangers# -                          / 
11 2  56 7180 1 1 a    11  of ^course we 'face the d\/anger# .                / 
11 2  56 7190 1 1 a    11  from ^wh\/at I`ve said# .                          / 
11 2  56 7200 1 1 a    11  ^of . a !n\ew w/ave# .                             / 
11 2  56 7210 1 1 a    11  of ^student unr\est# -                             / 
11 2  56 7220 1 1 a    11  you can ^say that 'this has 'probably beg=un#      / 
11 2  56 7230 1 1 a    11  ^in the :Uni'versity of :\Essex# .                 / 
11 2  56 7240 1 1 a    11  which is ^\always the 'trouble sp/ot# .            / 
11 2  56 7250 1 1 a    11  ^and in 'which of c\ourse#                         / 
11 2  56 7260 1 1 a    11  [dhi:] ^National :Union of St/udents# .            / 
11 2  56 7270 1 1 a    11  ^=and [@m]#                                        / 
11 2  56 7280 1 1 a    11  is ^cl/aiming# .                                   / 
11 2  56 7290 1 1 a    11  that ^\any de'mand#                                / 
11 2  56 7300 1 1 a    11  ^made by a !\/union#                               / 
11 2  56 7310 1 1 a    11  which ^has [@: . @] !taken its l/ead#              / 
11 2  56 7320 1 1 a    11  from the ^National 'Union of St/udents# .          / 
11 2  56 7330 1 1 a    11  [@] "^must be :either acc/eded to#                 / 
11 2  57 7340 1 1 a    11  "^\/or#                                            / 
11 2  57 7350 1 1 a    11  ^if the /union# .                                  / 
11 2  57 7360 1 2 a    11  [@:] ^does un'told _damage and dis:ruption and     / 
11 2  57 7360 1 1 a    11  =everything# .                                     / 
11 2  57 7370 1 1 a    11  ^all those [@m] . !=actions#                       / 
11 2  57 7380 1 1 a    11  should be con^d=oned# .                            / 
11 2  57 7390 1 1 a    11  "^by 'virtue of the f\act#                         / 
11 2  57 7400 1 1 a    11  that the ^student 'union . !has . "!b\acked# .     / 
11 2  57 7410 1 1 a    11  ^this par'ticular 'course of \action# -            / 
11 2  57 7420 1 2 a    11  [?@] of ^course this is an en!tirely unac'ceptable / 
11 2  57 7420 1 1 a    11  th\ing#                                            / 
11 2  57 7430 1 2 a    13  you ^cannot 'do ^you I ^very much !h\/ope of       / 
11 2  57 7430 1 1 a    13  'course#                                           / 
11 2  57 7440 1 1 a    11  that ((the)) ^University of /Essex# .              / 
11 2  57 7450 1 1 a    12  ^will [?] as it ^is at the !m\oment# .             / 
11 2  57 7460 1 1 a    11  ^standing re"!markably f\irm# .                    / 
11 2  57 7470 1 1 a    11  ^on to !!me the most ":crucial . \issue# .         / 
11 2  58 7480 1 1 a    11  in the ^whole 'question of 'student unr\est# -     / 
11 2  58 7490 1 1 a    11  the dis^ruption . of :aca'demic l\ectures# -       / 
11 2  58 7500 1 1 a    11  now ^this is s=omething# .                         / 
11 2  58 7510 1 2 a    11  which has "^poisoned the 'atmosphere in 'German .  / 
11 2  58 7510 1 1 a    11  'univ/ersities# .                                  / 
11 2  58 7520 1 2 a    12  and is . ^now . in ^many 'uni'versities ((in))     / 
11 2  58 7520 1 1 a    12  \/Italy#                                           / 
11 2  58 7530 1 1 a    11  are in the "^gravest d\anger# .                    / 
11 2  58 7540 1 1 a    11  ((a)) ^friend of m/ine#                            / 
11 2  58 7550 1 1 a    11  an ^art hist\orian# .                              / 
11 2  58 7560 1 2 a    11  has re^fused to 'move 'back to his :own 'home t\own/ 
11 2  58 7560 1 1 a    11  {^Fl\orence#}# .                                   / 
11 2  58 7570 1 1 a    11  to ac^cept a pres!t\igious ap:p=ointment# .        / 
11 2  58 7580 1 1 a    11  in the ^history of /art# .                         / 
11 2  59 7590 1 1 a    11  [i ? i] as a pro^fessor th/ere# .                  / 
11 2  59 7600 1 1 a    11  from an^other univ=ersity# .                       / 
11 2  59 7610 1 1 a    11  be"^c\ause# .                                      / 
11 2  59 7620 1 1 a    11  "^lectures in the :Uni'versity of Fl\orence#       / 
11 2  59 7630 1 2 a    11  are ^syste"!matically dis'rupted by po'litical     / 
11 2  59 7630 1 1 a    11  fan\atics# -                                       / 
11 2  59 7640 1 1 a    11  ^n=ow#                                             / 
11 2  59 7650 1 1 a    11  ^this as I :s\aid#                                 / 
11 2  59 7660 1 1 a    11  is ^really the 'issue at \Essex#                   / 
11 2  59 7670 1 1 a    11  in ^which there has :b\een# .                      / 
11 2  59 7680 1 1 a    11  ^in the \autumn# .                                 / 
11 2  59 7690 1 1 a    11  dis^ruption of :l\ectures#                         / 
11 2  59 7700 1 2 a    12  and the ^uni!versity is :s=aying ^these 'people    / 
11 2  59 7700 1 1 a    12  'must be ex:pelled if they dis:rupt l\ectures#     / 
11 2  59 7710 1 1 a    11  and ^this is 'what the 'issue at 'Essex \is# -     / 
11 2  59 7720 1 1 a    11  "^n=ow# .                                          / 
11 2  59 7730 1 1 a    11  ^this is of !course !s=omething# .                 / 
11 2  59 7740 1 1 a    11  which has "^hardly 'reared it((s)) h\ead#          / 
11 2  60 7750 1 1 a    11  and the "^l\ast thing 'I would 'want to d/o#       / 
11 2  60 7760 1 2 a    11  is to be^gin 'trying 'to . [@: @] have a           / 
11 2  60 7760 1 1 a    11  !b\/ogey# .                                        / 
11 2  60 7770 1 1 a    11  [aa@] of of ^mass 'student disr/uption#            / 
11 2  60 7780 1 1 a    11  ^but . !let us !face the !f\act# .                 / 
11 2  60 7790 1 2 a    12  that ^students are :only . "^n\/aturally [dh@] they/ 
11 2  60 7790 1 1 a    12  are 'human 'beings#                                / 
11 2  60 7800 1 1 a    11  and ^if they "!\are# .                             / 
11 2  60 7810 1 1 a    11  "^really up ag\ainst it fin/ancially# .            / 
11 2  60 7820 1 1 a    11  they are "^g\/oing to#                             / 
11 2  60 7830 1 1 a    11  ^find it "!very {d\ifficult} to ad:j\ust# .        / 
11 2  60 7840 1 1 a    12  ^to a !new an en^tirely 'new . 'situ\ation# -      / 
11 2  60 7850 1 1 a    11  "^th\en there is the s/econd 'thing#               / 
11 2  60 7860 1 1 a    11  ^of stagn\ation# -                                 / 
11 2  60 7870 1 1 a    11  of "^c\ourse#                                      / 
11 2  61 7880 1 1 a    11  ^when you "end "gr\owth# -                         / 
11 2  61 7890 1 2 a    11  it ^then 'does be'come a 'question in which :every / 
11 2  61 7890 1 1 a    11  pro":m\/otion# .                                   / 
11 2  61 7900 1 1 a    11  "^\everything . {de^p\ends#}# .                    / 
11 2  61 7910 1 1 a    11  on ^dead men`s !sh\oes# .                          / 
11 2  61 7920 1 1 a    11  of "^course th\ose# .                              / 
11 2  61 7930 1 2 a    11  Lord ^Robbins !must be [w] :one of those 'here who / 
11 2  61 7930 1 1 a    11  can re:m\ember# .                                  / 
11 2  61 7940 1 1 a    11  the "^time "!wh\en . 'in the 'nineteen tw/enties# ./ 
11 2  61 7950 1 1 a    11  ^on the wh/ole#                                    / 
11 2  61 7960 1 1 a    11  aca^demic !life was !!l\ike that# -                / 
11 2  61 7970 1 1 a    11  that - the . ((a))^bilities of ex:p=ansion#        / 
11 2  61 7980 1 1 a    11  the a^bilities to 'move \up# .                     / 
11 2  61 7990 1 1 a    11  de^pended 'really 'on ret\irement# .               / 
11 2  61 8000 1 1 a    11  there was com"^paratively 'little exp\ansion# -    / 
11 2  62 8010 1 1 a    11  per^haps Lord :R\/obbins 'doesn`t#                 / 
11 2  62 8020 1 1 a    11  because ^he was in a !very pres_tigious !pl\ace# . / 
11 2  62 8030 1 1 a    11  [@?@?] the ^sch\ool# -                             / 
11 2  62 8040 1 1 a    11  ^b=ut# -                                           / 
11 2  62 8050 1 2 a    11  "^certainly 'that would have 'been . [dhi: @]      / 
11 2  62 8050 1 1 a    11  m\emory# .                                         / 
11 2  62 8060 1 1 a    11  of ^\any_body#                                     / 
11 2  62 8070 1 1 a    11  of ^h\/is gener'ation# .                           / 
11 2  62 8080 1 1 a    11  ^in [ei] !{c\ivic 'university} in \England# - .    / 
11 2  62 8090 1 1 a    11  [@] un^til the 'nineteen th/irties#                / 
11 2  62 8100 1 1 a    11  the ^l\/ate 'nineteen 'thirties#                   / 
11 2  62 8110 1 1 a    11  ^when a :bit of exp\ansion# .                      / 
11 2  62 8120 1 1 a    11  which ^we of "n/\ow# .                             / 
11 2  62 8130 1 1 a    11  ac^cept it as :perfectly n\ormal# .                / 
11 2  62 8140 1 1 a    11  [@] be^g\an# -                                     / 
11 2  62 8150 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell#                                            / 
11 2  62 8160 1 1 a    11  ^that is "!\one of the _things# .                  / 
11 2  63 8170 1 1 a    11  and I ^do _{\ask my'self} :s\/ometimes# -          / 
11 2  63 8180 1 1 a    11  [@] an^\other 'problem# .                          / 
11 2  63 8190 1 1 a    11  ^when I 'talk 'about stag:n\/ation#                / 
11 2  63 8200 1 1 a    11  ^what I m\/ean is# .                               / 
11 2  63 8210 1 2 a    11  the ^ina"!bility 'of [ju:niv?] 'of a               / 
11 2  63 8210 1 1 a    11  'univ/ersity# .                                    / 
11 2  63 8220 1 1 a    11  ^to - "!make prov\/ision#                          / 
11 2  63 8230 1 1 a    11  for ^n\ew id/eas#                                  / 
11 2  63 8240 1 1 a    11  ^n\ew 'courses# .                                  / 
11 2  63 8250 1 1 a    11  ^new in\itiatives# - .                             / 
11 2  63 8260 1 2 a    12  be^cause of !course the _only 'way you !c\an 'make / 
11 2  63 8260 1 1 a    12  'these [@?@@] the ^money av/ailable# .             / 
11 2  63 8270 1 1 a    11  ^is 'by - con"!tracting . in some :\other /area# . / 
11 2  63 8280 1 1 a    11  of . "^st\/opping# .                               / 
11 2  63 8290 1 1 a    11  ^certain 'things which :h\/ave gone 'on# .         / 
11 2  63 8300 1 1 a    11  ^probably from 'time . :\imme'morial# - -          / 
11 2  63 8310 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow# -                                           / 
11 2  63 8320 1 1 a    11  [sh] what "^\are these 'new in'itiatives# .        / 
11 2  64 8330 1 1 a    11  ^w=ell#                                            / 
11 2  64 8340 1 2 a    11  ^I be'lieve there :always !w\ill be 'new           / 
11 2  64 8340 1 1 a    11  in'itiatives#                                      / 
11 2  64 8350 1 1 a    11  ^new in'itiatives in re:s\earch# .                 / 
11 2  64 8360 1 1 a    11  ^pr\imarily# .                                     / 
11 2  64 8370 1 1 a    11  but I ^ask myself s\/ometimes# .                   / 
11 2  64 8380 1 1 a    11  ^whether . the 'old es"t\/ablished 'uni'versities# / 
11 2  64 8390 1 1 a    11  and ^let us . re'member that :we "\are# .          / 
11 2  64 8400 1 1 a    11  [i] his^t\/orically#                               / 
11 2  64 8410 1 1 a    11  an ^old es:t\/ablished 'uni'versity#               / 
11 2  64 8420 1 2 a    11  in the ^sense that 'Oxford and :C\ambridge are 'old/ 
11 2  64 8420 1 1 a    11  es'tablished# -                                    / 
11 2  64 8430 1 1 a    11  ^d\o w/e#                                          / 
11 2  64 8440 1 1 a    11  in ^fact re'spond "!qu\/ite e'nough# .             / 
11 2  64 8450 1 2 a    12  ^to 'certain . [@ @ @ @ @] ^certain . !criticisms  / 
11 2  64 8450 1 1 a    12  which are :{m\ade} of 'univ\ersities# -            / 
11 2  65 8460 1 1 a    11  ^now a :very vo!ciferous 'criticism was m/ade# .   / 
11 2  65 8470 1 1 a    11  ^by Lord !St\okes the 'other 'day#                 / 
11 2  65 8480 1 1 a    11  of ^univ\ersities#                                 / 
11 2  65 8490 1 1 a    11  well ^Lord _Stokes is {s\omewhat} of a :m\adman#   / 
11 2  65 8500 1 1 a    11  [a?e?me?bi?bimi] in ^aca'demic :m\atters# .        / 
11 2  65 8510 1 1 a    11  in ^aca'demic m\atters# .                          / 
11 2  65 8520 1 1 aud  20  +(laughter - )+                                    / 
11 2  65 8530 1 1(a    11  +[@:m] ^but+ !!having s\/aid that# .               / 
11 2  65 8540 1 1 a    11  ^are we r\eally 'taking# .                         / 
11 2  65 8550 1 1 a    11  "^qu\ite into acc/ount#                            / 
11 2  65 8560 1 1 a    11  ^everything that he h/as 'said# -                  / 
11 2  65 8570 1 1 a    11  I ^sometimes w\onder#                              / 
11 2  65 8580 1 1 a    11  ^whether it 'wouldn`t be a good pl\an#             / 
11 2  65 8590 1 1 a    11  for ^all our f\ellows# .                           / 
11 2  66 8600 1 1 a    11  who are ^engin\eers# - .                           / 
11 2  66 8610 1 1 a    11  ^to !come tog/ether# .                             / 
11 2  66 8620 1 2 a    11  and to dis^cuss . 'with 'our . :aca'demic          / 
11 2  66 8620 1 1 a    11  !st\aff# -                                         / 
11 2  66 8630 1 2 a    11  [@?] the ^leaders of our :aca'demic !st\aff        / 
11 2  66 8630 1 1 a    11  'engi'neering dep/artments# .                      / 
11 2  66 8640 1 1 a    12  ^as to - ^what \is# .                              / 
11 2  66 8650 1 1 a    11  ^h\as there b/een# .                               / 
11 2  66 8660 1 1 a    11  "^is there 'any n\eed#                             / 
11 2  66 8670 1 1 a    11  for ^ch\ange# .                                    / 
11 2  66 8680 1 1 a    11  [@i] ^in 'our :engin'eering cur!r\iculum# .        / 
11 2  66 8690 1 1 a    11  and ^may I :s\ay#                                  / 
11 2  66 8700 1 2 a    11  that I ^think it is :not the '((question)) of      / 
11 2  66 8700 1 1 a    11  uni"!v\ersities#                                   / 
11 2  66 8710 1 2 a    11  I ^think it is the pro:fessional 'bodies           / 
11 2  66 8710 1 1 a    11  them!s\elves# .                                    / 
11 2  66 8720 1 1 a    11  which have ^got to ask this qu\estion# - -         / 
11 2  67 8730 1 1 a    11  ^well th/en# .                                     / 
11 2  67 8740 1 1 a    11  ^there is an\/other 'problem#                      / 
11 2  67 8750 1 1 a    11  an^\other d/anger# -                               / 
11 2  67 8760 1 2 a    11  ^that . the !regionaliz:\ation {of ^higher         / 
11 2  67 8760 1 1 a    11  'educ\ation#}# .                                   / 
11 2  67 8770 1 1 a    11  ^may be \advocated# .                              / 
11 2  67 8780 1 2 a    11  now ^this is 'one of the 'things which is          / 
11 2  67 8780 1 1 a    11  ex:tremely p\/opular# .                            / 
11 2  67 8790 1 1 a    12  in ^two [@?@?@?@?@] in ^two \areas#                / 
11 2  67 8800 1 1 a    11  ^/one#                                             / 
11 2  67 8810 1 1 a    11  ^th\ose who /are# .                                / 
11 2  67 8820 1 2 a    12  ^people of who ^have the !very "!!highest          / 
11 2  67 8820 1 1 a    12  st\andards# .                                      / 
11 2  67 8830 1 1 a    11  of ^aca'demic m/erit# .                            / 
11 2  67 8840 1 1 a    11  [@b?@m] ^that is to 'say they "!w\ant# .           / 
11 2  67 8850 1 1 a    11  the ^very 'highest 'standards main:t\ained#        / 
11 2  67 8860 1 1 a    11  ^\in our 'uni'versities# -                         / 
11 2  67 8870 1 1 a    11  and ^yet they be:l\/ieve#                          / 
11 2  68 8880 1 1 a    11  that there ^\is# .                                 / 
11 2  68 8890 1 1 a    11  ^due to the !b\inary _system# .                    / 
11 2  68 8900 1 1 a    11  [ei] ^gross w\aste# .                              / 
11 2  68 8910 1 1 a    11  ^of . re:s\ources#                                 / 
11 2  68 8920 1 1 a    11  a "^duplic\ation of {re^s\ources#}#                / 
11 2  68 8930 1 2 a    11  they be^lieve that if :only there were 'some .     / 
11 2  68 8930 1 1 a    11  :higher edu'cation com"!m=ission# .                / 
11 2  68 8940 1 1 a    11  ^and that !this com:m\ission# .                    / 
11 2  68 8950 1 1 a    11  [?@m] ^worked "t\o# .                              / 
11 2  68 8960 1 1 a    11  ^r\egional'ized {s\ystems#}#                       / 
11 2  68 8970 1 1 a    11  of ^higher educ/ation#                             / 
11 2  68 8980 1 1 a    11  in ^which a !univ\ersity#                          / 
11 2  68 8990 1 2 a    11  was ^simply !one of :many - !insti'tutions of      / 
11 2  68 8990 1 1 a    11  'higher edu'cation !!\in that 'region# .           / 
11 2  68 9000 1 2 a    11  ^that we 'would be 'able 'to . :have a !much more  / 
11 2  68 9000 1 1 a    11  !r\/ational#                                       / 
11 2  69 9010 1 1 a    11  ^allo'cation of res\ources# -                      / 
11 2  69 9020 1 1 a    11  and "^then of :c\ourse#                            / 
11 2  69 9030 1 1 a    11  there`s the "^\other 'wing#                        / 
11 2  69 9040 1 1 a    11  ^who is in 'favour of r/egionaliz'ation# .         / 
11 2  69 9050 1 2 a    11  ^who 'want to 'compre"!h\ensi'vize the             / 
11 2  69 9050 1 1 a    11  'univ/ersities# .                                  / 
11 2  69 9060 1 1 a    11  ^and to make "!\/all insti'tutions#                / 
11 2  69 9070 1 1 a    12  ^as it 'were to ^have them 'on a :p\arity# - .     / 
11 2  69 9080 1 1 a    11  ^I think :b\oth th/ese#                            / 
11 2  69 9090 1 1 a    11  are ex^tremely d/angerous# .                       / 
11 2  69 9100 1 1 a    11  because I ^think they !w\ill#                      / 
11 2  69 9110 1 1 a    11  and ^must str\ike in f/act#                        / 
11 2  69 9120 1 1 a    11  at the ^r\oots#                                    / 
11 2  69 9130 1 1 a    11  ^of . the :inde!p\endence#                         / 
11 2  69 9140 1 1 a    11  ^of univ\ersities# -                               / 
11 2  69 9150 1 1 a    11  and "^f\inally there is s/omething# .              / 
11 2  70 9160 1 1 a    11  ^which I !ought to al'lude to I th/ink# .          / 
11 2  70 9170 1 1 a    11  which is a ^longer 'term d/anger#                  / 
11 2  70 9180 1 2 a    11  but ^which I be!lieve is 'only :now going to       / 
11 2  70 9180 1 1 a    11  be"!g\in {^coming !\into {the ^univ\ersities#}#}# ./ 
11 2  70 9190 1 1 a    11  and ^that is the eff=ect#                          / 
11 2  70 9200 1 1 a    11  of ^changes in [dhi:] . cur!r\iculum#              / 
11 2  70 9210 1 1 a    11  the ^ways of t\eaching#                            / 
11 2  70 9220 1 1 a    11  ^in the sch\ools# - -                              / 
11 2  70 9230 1 2 a    11  this is ^not anything to 'do neces'sarily . with   / 
11 2  70 9230 1 1 a    11  :compre:h\ensive sch/ools# .                       / 
11 2  70 9240 1 1 a    11  ^or . the :abol'ition of the :gr\ammar 'school# -  / 
11 2  70 9250 1 1 a    11  it ^is . "!n\otable#                               / 
11 2  70 9260 1 1 a    11  that ^in this c\ountry#                            / 
11 2  70 9270 1 1 a    11  it is the ^middle 'classes them:s\elves# .         / 
11 2  70 9280 1 1 a    11  who ^have re:volted ag\ainst# .                    / 
11 2  71 9290 1 1 a    11  the con^ception of the e'leven :pl\us# -           / 
11 2  71 9300 1 1 a    11  ^but . !those of 'us who th/\ought# .              / 
11 2  71 9310 1 1 a    11  ^that 'you 'should post!p\one# .                   / 
11 2  71 9320 1 1 a    11  the ^age at 'which ir"!revocable dec\isions#       / 
11 2  71 9330 1 1 a    11  were ^taken a'bout a 'child`s edu:c\ation# -       / 
11 2  71 9340 1 1 a    11  ^those of us who :th\ought this 'way# .            / 
11 2  71 9350 1 1 a    11  ^certainly did !n\ot think {that ^this m\eant#}# . / 
11 2  71 9360 1 2 a    12  that it "^must . in'evitably 'mean 'to . [ae] and  / 
11 2  71 9360 1 1 a    12  and ^mean to "!!w\elc/oming# .                     / 
11 2  71 9370 1 1 a    11  the ^lowering of 'academic :st\andards# .          / 
11 2  71 9380 1 2 a    11  be^cause there is !!no neces:sary con'nection      / 
11 2  71 9380 1 1 a    11  be'tween these 'two :th\ings# -                    / 
11 2  71 9390 1 1 a    11  ^what has of 'course occ/\urred {^\is#}# .         / 
11 2  72 9400 1 1 a    11  that the ^people who have :s\aid# .                / 
11 2  72 9410 1 2 a    11  we ^want to . post"!p\/one the 'age of the         / 
11 2  72 9410 1 1 a    11  ir'revocable de'cisions# .                         / 
11 2  72 9420 1 1 a    11  ^nevertheless are !\also th/ose# .                 / 
11 2  72 9430 1 1 a    11  who ^\also w=ant# .                                / 
11 2  72 9440 1 1 a    11  to ^try and :make "!!\/all# .                      / 
11 2  72 9450 1 1 a    11  [@m @@] ^st\/andards# .                            / 
11 2  72 9460 1 1 a    11  [@ @ ak @@] ac^c\/ommodated# .                     / 
11 2  72 9470 1 1 a    11  to the "^l\east ad!vantaged p/art#                 / 
11 2  72 9480 1 1 a    11  ^of the 'popu:l\ation# .                           / 
11 2  72 9490 1 2 a    11  and ^this I 'think is 'something on which          / 
11 2  72 9490 1 1 a    11  :uni'versities have :got to be!gin . "n\/ow# .     / 
11 2  72 9500 1 1 a    11  to ^take a st/and on# -                            / 
11 2  72 9510 1 2 a    11  I ^think it is im:possible to 'take a !stand for   / 
11 2  72 9510 1 1 a    11  the 'uni:v\ersities#                               / 
11 2  72 9520 1 2 a    11  ^on . the !methods of in:struction in !pr\imary    / 
11 2  72 9520 1 1 a    11  'schools#                                          / 
11 2  73 9530 1 2 a    11  but ^certainly it is :very important that they :d\o/ 
11 2  73 9530 1 1 a    11  take a st/and# .                                   / 
11 2  73 9540 1 1 a    11  ^on . the 'method of in:str\uctions# .             / 
11 2  73 9550 1 1 a    11  [@?i] in ^in s\econdary sch/ools#                  / 
11 2  73 9560 1 1 a    11  and the ^kind of at:t\ainments# .                  / 
11 2  73 9570 1 1 a    11  which they . ex"^{p\/ect} and !h\/ope for#         / 
11 2  73 9580 1 1 a    11  [i] ^\in the uni:{v\ersities#}#                    / 
11 3a  1   10 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  1   20 1 1 a    11 1*- I ^l\ive#;.*; .                                 / 
11 3a  1   30 1 2 a    11 1I ^live what :many 'people 'might 'term a :qu\/iet / 
11 3a  1   30 1 1 a    11 1'life#                                             / 
11 3a  1   40 1 1 a    11 1but it ^suits m\/e# -                              / 
11 3a  1   50 1 1 a    11 1I ^have . a !b\/ed-sitting-'room# .                / 
11 3a  1   60 1 1 a    11 1on [dhi:] . ^seventh *fl\/oor# -                   / 
11 3a  1   70 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  1   80 1 1 a    11 1of of of* ^quite a !m\oderately 'large h/ouse# .   / 
11 3a  1   90 1 1 a    11 1^just beh/ind# .                                   / 
11 3a  1  100 1 1 a    11 1^Earls Court !R\oad# -                             / 
11 3a  1  110 1 1 a    11 1I ^am a [b] a !literary tr/anslator# .             / 
11 3a  1  120 1 1 a    11 1by ^tr\/ade# .                                     / 
11 3a  1  130 1 1 a    11 1^=and [@]#                                         / 
11 3a  1  140 1 1 a    11 1at the ^m\oment#                                   / 
11 3a  1  150 1 1 a    11 1I`m ^translating a 'book . 'for my !p\/ublishers# ./ 
11 3a  1  160 1 2 a    11 1[@m] I`m ^translating a [m] :French !\English      / 
11 3a  1  160 1 1 a    11 1d=ictionary# .                                     / 
11 3a  2  170 1 1 a    11 1into ^English !Fr\ench *((dictionary))# - -        / 
11 3a  2  180 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  2  190 1 1 a    11 1it`s ^rather* lab\orious +w/ork# .                 / 
11 3a  2  200 2 1 a    21 1^and [@] .+                                        / 
11 3a  2  210 1 1 aud  20 1+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3a  2  200 1 2(a    11 1it [@m] :takes me 'till . 'quite 'late in the      / 
11 3a  2  200 1 1(a    11 1:\/evening# .                                      / 
11 3a  2  220 1 1 a    11 1to ^get through my 'day`s . [@m] :st\/int#         / 
11 3a  2  230 1 1 a    11 1^as I :c/all it# -                                 / 
11 3a  2  240 1 1 a    11 1^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 3a  2  250 1 1 a    11 1[@] ^one \/evening# -                              / 
11 3a  2  260 1 1 a    11 1^I was !in b\/ed#                                  / 
11 3a  2  270 1 1 a    11 1it was ^r\ather c/old#                             / 
11 3a  2  280 1 1 a    12 1and ^I _was . I was [@] "^s\ipping my c/ocoa# .    / 
11 3a  2  290 2 1 a    22 1*. and - it*                                       / 
11 3a  2  300 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  3  290 1 2(a    12 1oc^curred to _me that I _wasn`t . ^something was   / 
11 3a  3  290 1 1(a    12 1":{m\issing} from my :l\ife# -                     / 
11 3a  3  310 1 1 a    11 1I ^couldn`t _think 'what it w\as# .                / 
11 3a  3  320 1 1 a    11 1((and)) my ^life was !h\/appy e'nough#             / 
11 3a  3  330 1 1 a    11 1I was "^b/usy# .                                   / 
11 3a  3  340 1 2 a    11 1I was rather ^stuck at the !moment with my         / 
11 3a  3  340 1 1 a    11 1trans:l\/ation# -                                  / 
11 3a  3  350 1 1 a    11 1[@:m @?] I`d ^got to the word !b\/aton# -          / 
11 3a  3  360 1 1 a    21 1*[@m] ^and [@ - dhi]* -                            / 
11 3a  3  370 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  3  380 1 1 a    11 1I was ^lying in 'bed ":worrying wh/ether# .        / 
11 3a  3  390 1 1 a    11 1my ^s\adness#                                      / 
11 3a  3  400 1 1 a    11 1((and)) ^rather [b@: @?] !bl\ue feeling#           / 
11 3a  4  410 1 1 a    11 1was "^d\ue to 'this#                               / 
11 3a  4  420 1 1 a    11 1the ^fact that my "!w\ork# .                       / 
11 3a  4  430 1 2 a    12 1^had [@:m] - had ^gone into a :period of           / 
11 3a  4  430 1 1 a    12 1tra!v\/ail# .                                      / 
11 3a  4  440 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  4  450 1 2 a    11 1*but [@m] - I ^realized* that per_haps . if !I     / 
11 3a  4  450 1 1 a    11 1could _have a "!p\et# - .                          / 
11 3a  4  460 1 1 a    11 1^in my !r\oom#                                     / 
11 3a  4  470 1 1 a    11 1it would ^help me get !p\ast ba'ton#               / 
11 3a  4  480 1 1 a    11 1and . ^further !into the !d\ictionary#;*-*;        / 
11 3a  4  490 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  4  500 1 1 a    12 1and I ^considered I ^l\ay 'back#                   / 
11 3a  4  510 1 1 a    11 1and ^s\ipped my c/ocoa#                            / 
11 3a  4  520 1 1 a    11 1and con^sidered the :pets I could :h\ave#          / 
11 3a  5  530 1 1 a    11 1a ^d\og . for /instance# -                         / 
11 3a  5  540 1 1 a    11 1^then I [g@] be'gan to r\ealize the _implic_ations#/ 
11 3a  5  550 1 1 a    11 1one ^can`t "l\ightly# -                            / 
11 3a  5  560 1 1 a    11 1have a ^d\og#                                      / 
11 3a  5  570 1 1 a    11 1in a ^sm\all# .                                    / 
11 3a  5  580 1 1 a    11 1^bed-s\itting-_room# -                             / 
11 3a  5  590 1 1 a    11 1((and)) I ^l\ay there#                             / 
11 3a  5  600 1 1 a    11 1"^in 'some :m\isery# - .                           / 
11 3a  5  610 1 1 a    11 1the ^cocoa was c\old#                              / 
11 3a  5  620 1 1 a    11 1*and the ^room was ((fr\ozen#));-*;                / 
11 3a  5  630 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  5  640 1 1 a    11 1and my ^{l\andlady} :Mrs O`:G\orman# -             / 
11 3a  5  650 1 1 a    11 1^came !\in# -                                      / 
11 3a  5  660 1 2 a    11 1and she ^said [@] . ( . coughs) I`m !sorry to      / 
11 3a  5  660 1 1 a    11 1'burst :\in 'like th/is# -                         / 
11 3a  6  670 1 2 a    11 1but I ^saw the 'light was still 'on at this        / 
11 3a  6  670 1 1 a    11 1:h\/our#                                           / 
11 3a  6  680 1 2 a    12 1((it was)) ^then by 'nearly . ^nearly 'quarter to  / 
11 3a  6  680 1 1 a    12 1:t\en#                                             / 
11 3a  6  690 1 1 a    11 1*. she ^thought that 'something* was wr\ong# .     / 
11 3a  6  700 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  6  710 1 2 a    11 1she said I sup^pose you`re [b] :stuck a'mong your  / 
11 3a  6  710 1 1 a    11 1!\/Bs a'gain# .                                    / 
11 3a  6  720 1 1 a    11 1re^{f\erring} to my . !d\ictionary#                / 
11 3a  6  730 1 1 a    20 1*- and -*                                          / 
11 3a  6  740 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  6  750 1 1 a    11 1and ^then I [th] I 'suddenly th\ought# .           / 
11 3a  7  760 1 1 a    11 1^th\/at would be 'it#                              / 
11 3a  7  770 1 1 a    11 1I`d ^keep a "!b\ee# *- -*                          / 
11 3a  7  780 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  7  790 1 2 a    11 1be^cause a !bee would be "{c\/ompany it} 'makes a  / 
11 3a  7  790 1 1 a    11 1":n\/oise# .                                       / 
11 3a  7  800 1 1 a    11 1one ^wouldn`t have to con:v\/erse with it# -       / 
11 3a  7  810 1 1 a    11 1^so I !b\ought a b/ee# .                           / 
11 3a  7  820 1 1 a    11 1and he was ((an)) ^absolutely !splendid _ch\ap#    / 
11 3a  7  830 1 1 a    11 1he *^really w\as#                                  / 
11 3a  7  840 1 1 a    11 1he was "^\awfully 'sweet#;.*;                      / 
11 3a  7  850 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  7  860 1 1 a    11 1I ^called him Di/aghilev# -                        / 
11 3a  8  870 1 1 a    11 1because he was . ^rather pl\ump#                   / 
11 3a  8  880 1 1 a    11 1and ^wore a 'fur c\oat# *- - -*                    / 
11 3a  8  890 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  8  900 1 1 a    11 1but ^after a'bout 'five d\ays#                     / 
11 3a  8  910 1 1 a    11 1I ^found that . Di'aghilev was ":l\anguishing# -   / 
11 3a  8  920 1 1 a    11 1he`d he`d he`d ^buzz \off#                         / 
11 3a  8  930 1 1 a    11 1through the ^w=indow# .                            / 
11 3a  8  940 1 1 a    11 1^and he`d . "!buzz b/ack# .                        / 
11 3a  8  950 1 1 a    11 1^late in the :\/evening#                           / 
11 3a  8  960 1 1 a    11 1but he was ^getting th/inner and th\inner# .       / 
11 3a  8  970 1 1 a    11 1and I ^{s/uddenly} r/ealized that# .               / 
11 3a  9  980 1 2 a    11 1of ^course he :wasn`t getting 'anything to         / 
11 3a  9  980 1 1 a    11 1!\eat# - .                                         / 
11 3a  9  990 1 1 a    11 1be^cause . 'bees 'eat . !n\ectar# .                / 
11 3a  9 1000 1 1 a    11 1and ((there`s)) "^very "very little n\ectar# .     / 
11 3a  9 1010 1 1 a    11 1^in the /Earls 'Court R\oad#                       / 
11 3a  9 1020 1 2 a    11 1*- - because ^bees 'normally 'live in the          / 
11 3a  9 1020 1 1 a    11 1!c\ountry# -                                       / 
11 3a  9 1030 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a  9 1040 1 2 a    13 1^so I I* [b@] ^thought I`m ^I`m going to !l\ose    / 
11 3a  9 1040 1 1 a    13 1him#                                               / 
11 3a  9 1050 1 2 a    13 1he`s ^getting !th\inner he ^looked no "^longer     / 
11 3a  9 1050 1 1 a    13 1looked like Di:\/aghilev# -                        / 
11 3a 10 1060 1 1 a    11 1he ^looked like the !last . half :\inch#           / 
11 3a 10 1070 1 1 a    11 1of a ^used !p\ipe 'cleaner#                        / 
11 3a 10 1080 1 2 a    11 1*- - ((I got)) ^terribly :worried that I was 'going/ 
11 3a 10 1080 1 1 a    11 1to :lose my 'little :fr\/iend#;.*;                 / 
11 3a 10 1090 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a 10 1100 1 1 a    11 1^so I I th\ought# .                                / 
11 3a 10 1110 1 2 a    13 1I ^[ka: ?] I ^obviously 'can`t . [@ b] :buy an     / 
11 3a 10 1110 1 1 a    13 1es^t\ate# .                                        / 
11 3a 10 1120 1 1 a    11 1but per"^haps if I 'had a !l\ittle :{^l\and#}#     / 
11 3a 10 1130 1 1 a    11 1and a ^little . [@] :floral :gr\owth# .            / 
11 3a 11 1140 1 1 a    11 1my ^little 'friend will :l\ive# .                  / 
11 3a 11 1150 1 1 a    11 1^so I !w\/ent 'out# -                              / 
11 3a 11 1160 1 1 a    11 1and I [f] ^bought an :old w\indow 'box#            / 
11 3a 11 1170 1 1 a    11 1^and - I pl/anted some pl\ants# .                  / 
11 3a 11 1180 1 2 a    11 1[@n@] *- and [@:m] - ^my little* 'bee grew         / 
11 3a 11 1180 1 1 a    11 1!f\atter#                                          / 
11 3a 11 1190 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a 11 1200 1 1 a    11 1and ^f\atter#                                      / 
11 3a 11 1210 1 2 a    11 1and it was ^so 'lovely to 'see him 'buzzing        / 
11 3a 11 1210 1 1 a    11 1a:r\/ound# .                                       / 
11 3a 11 1220 1 1 a    12 1and ^then he [hae] I ^saw him one d/ay#            / 
11 3a 11 1230 1 1 a    11 1with an^other !l\ittle 'bee#                       / 
11 3a 11 1240 1 1 a    11 1I`m ^sure it was a :qu\een b/ee#                   / 
11 3a 12 1250 1 1 a    11 1*. ^=and# .                                        / 
11 3a 12 1260 1 1 a    11 1^I was so h\appy for him# -                        / 
11 3a 12 1270 1 2 a    12 1and ^he - - ^he was !buzzing a 'sort of .*         / 
11 3a 12 1270 1 1 a    12 1:inter!r\upted 'buzz#                              / 
11 3a 12 1280 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a 12 1290 1 1 a    11 1and I ^realized that . he was en:g\aged# *- - -*   / 
11 3a 12 1300 1 1 aud  20 1*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3a 12 1310 1 1 a    11 1my ^cup of 'happiness was :r\eally 'to the br/im# -/ 
11 3a 12 1320 1 1 a    11 1and . ^s\/ometimes 'when# .                        / 
11 3a 12 1330 1 1 a    11 1^people in the :c\ountry _s/ay# .                  / 
11 3a 12 1340 1 1 a    11 1^how can you :k\eep 'bees#                         / 
11 3a 12 1350 1 1 a    11 1you you . you ^have to have 'lots of "!l\and#      / 
11 3a 13 1360 1 1 a    11 1in ^order they 'may "!\eat# .                      / 
11 3a 13 1370 1 1 a    11 1a ^bee like 'yours can`t 'feed in L\ondon# .       / 
11 3a 13 1380 1 1 a    11 1I ^have a little 'smile to to mys/elf# .           / 
11 3a 13 1390 1 1 a    11 1as I ^think . of my w\/indow 'box# .               / 
11 3a 13 1400 1 1 a    11 1and I ^sing a 'little !t\une to my'self# .         / 
11 3a 13 1410 1 1 a    11 1^not very l\oud#                                   / 
11 3a 13 1420 1 1 a    11 1^quite qu/ietly I 'sing# -                         / 
11 3a 13 1430 1 2 a    20 1(starts singing) my bee eats because I`m a         / 
11 3a 13 1430 1 1 a    20 1landowner (stops singing)                          / 
11 3b  1 1440 1 1 b    11 2I was ^reading a b\ook# -                          / 
11 3b  1 1450 1 1 b    11 2^few weeks ag/o# .                                 / 
11 3b  1 1460 1 2 b    11 2^called . (coughs) . The !History . of :British    / 
11 3b  1 1460 1 1 b    11 2\Agri'culture# - .                                 / 
11 3b  1 1470 1 1 b    11 2and there was a ^l\ine in it# .                    / 
11 3b  1 1480 1 1 b    11 2which ^struck me par:t\icularly# - .               / 
11 3b  1 1490 1 1 b    11 2it ^s=aid# - - .                                   / 
11 3b  1 1500 1 1 b    11 2the ^most im!portant 'contrib\ution# .             / 
11 3b  1 1510 1 1 b    11 2to ^British \agri'culture# .                       / 
11 3b  1 1520 1 1 b    11 2^c/ame#                                            / 
11 3b  1 1530 1 1 b    11 2with the in^vention \of# - - -                     / 
11 3b  1 1540 1 2 b    11 2I ^thought that was ":t\erribly                    / 
11 3b  1 1540 1 1 b    11 2{^\interesting#}#;*- -*;                           / 
11 3b  3 1550 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  3 1560 1 1 b    11 2I ^actually !couldn`t . _f\inish r/eading it#      / 
11 3b  3 1570 1 2 b    11 2be^cause . the !chap whose 'shoulder I was :reading/ 
11 3b  3 1570 1 1 b    11 2*the 'book :\over#* .                              / 
11 3b  3 1580 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  3 1590 1 1 b    11 2got ^out at 'Leicester !Squ\are#;*- -*;            / 
11 3b  3 1600 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  3 1610 1 1 b    11 2but it ^left me !terribly intr\igued# - .          / 
11 3b  3 1620 1 1 b    11 2the ^most im!portant 'contrib\ution# .             / 
11 3b  3 1630 1 1 b    11 2to ^British /agriculture# .                        / 
11 3b  3 1640 1 1 b    11 2^came with the in!vention \of# - .                 / 
11 3b  3 1650 1 1 b    11 2I ^thought the in!vention of !!wh\at# -            / 
11 3b  4 1660 1 1 b    11 2the ^w/eather# .                                   / 
11 3b  4 1670 1 1 b    20 2*.*                                                / 
11 3b  4 1680 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  4 1690 1 1 b    11 2the ^h/orse# .                                     / 
11 3b  4 1700 1 1 b    11 2you ^know what it \/is# -                          / 
11 3b  4 1710 1 1 b    11 2it`s ^str\ing#;*-* -;                              / 
11 3b  4 1720 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  4 1730 1 1 b    11 2with^out str\ing#                                  / 
11 3b  4 1740 1 1 b    11 2a ^farm !wouldn`t ex\ist#                          / 
11 3b  4 1750 1 1 b    11 2they ^use it for "\everything#                     / 
11 3b  4 1760 1 1 b    11 2they ^tie . the _door-posts \up with it#           / 
11 3b  4 1770 1 1 b    11 2they lead ^animals ar\/ound with it# .             / 
11 3b  4 1780 1 2 b    11 2I ^found this was a :{m\ost} . !\interesting       / 
11 3b  4 1780 1 1 b    11 2disc/overy# -                                      / 
11 3b  4 1790 1 1 b    11 2I ^wanted to 'find out :more a:b\out it#           / 
11 3b  5 1800 1 1 b    11 2"^wh\en it was introd/uced#                        / 
11 3b  5 1810 1 1 b    11 2^s\o# .                                            / 
11 3b  5 1820 1 1 b    11 2I ^went 'back to [dhi] . :British Mu:s\eum# .      / 
11 3b  5 1830 1 1 b    11 2where they ^keep . 'all the 'early !r\ecords#      / 
11 3b  5 1840 1 1 b    11 2^y\ou know# .                                      / 
11 3b  5 1850 1 1 b    11 2I ^don`t mean sort of :Layton and !J\ohnstone#     / 
11 3b  5 1860 1 1 b    11 2*and ^you know ((the)) Sa'voy Orph\eans#           / 
11 3b  5 1870 1 1 b    11 2I ^m/ean#                                          / 
11 3b  5 1880 1 1 b    11 2^y\ou know#* .                                     / 
11 3b  5 1890 1 1 b    11 2"^b\ooks# .                                        / 
11 3b  5 1900 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  5 1910 1 1 b    11 2^and . I . !got /out# .                            / 
11 3b  5 1920 1 1 b    11 2The "^D\omesday {^B\ook#}# .                       / 
11 3b  5 1930 1 2 b    11 2which ^inci'dentally is :s\/oon coming 'out in     / 
11 3b  5 1930 1 1 b    11 2p\aper'back#                                       / 
11 3b  6 1940 1 1 b    11 2^so *it will !be - with:in the !reach of \/all#;-*;/ 
11 3b  6 1950 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  6 1960 1 1 b    11 2^=and# .                                           / 
11 3b  6 1970 1 1 b    11 2^there it :t\/old you# -                           / 
11 3b  6 1980 1 1 b    11 2the ^whole !st\ory# .                              / 
11 3b  6 1990 1 1 b    11 2you ^s=ee# -                                       / 
11 3b  6 2000 1 1 b    11 2^str\/ing# .                                       / 
11 3b  6 2010 1 1 b    11 2^really w\as#                                      / 
11 3b  6 2020 1 1 b    11 2the ^basis of of !British agric/ulture#            / 
11 3b  6 2030 1 2 b    11 2because ^string was re{sp\onsible} for the         / 
11 3b  6 2030 1 1 b    11 2en!closure of the :common !l\ands# - -             / 
11 3b  6 2040 1 1 b    12 2*you ^kn\ow [dh] I ^m=ean#                         / 
11 3b  6 2050 1 1 b    12 2the ^common !\is [j] you ^kn/ow#                   / 
11 3b  7 2060 1 1 b    22 2^people ^boy and a 'girl to'gether who 'say*       / 
11 3b  7 2070 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  7 2080 1 1 b    11 2'where do we [g] . ((this)) ^people !s\ay#         / 
11 3b  7 2090 1 1 b    11 2^use a 'bit of :c\ommon#                           / 
11 3b  7 2100 1 3 b    13 2*you`ve you`ve ^heard ((the)) . be^fore ( - -      / 
11 3b  7 2100 1 2 b    13 2laughs) be^fore [dhi:] . 'closure of the :common   / 
11 3b  7 2100 1 1 b    13 2l\ands#                                            / 
11 3b  7 2110 1 2 b    11 2((you see)) ^when the en'closure of the 'common*   / 
11 3b  7 2110 1 1 b    11 2'lands :c\/ame# .                                  / 
11 3b  7 2120 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  7 2130 1 2 b    11 2[o] they [dhi] ^common land was di'vided :up into  / 
11 3b  7 2130 1 1 b    11 2!str\ips#                                          / 
11 3b  8 2140 1 1 b    11 2for ^all the !p\easants#                           / 
11 3b  8 2150 1 1 b    11 2and ^every'body had !f\arms you s/ee#              / 
11 3b  8 2160 1 1 b    11 2but be^fore !str\ing#                              / 
11 3b  8 2170 1 1 b    11 2they ^couldn`t !d\o this#                          / 
11 3b  8 2180 1 2 b    11 2^cos there was !nothing to 'tie the !g\ate-posts   / 
11 3b  8 2180 1 1 b    11 2'up with you s/ee#                                 / 
11 3b  8 2190 1 1 b    11 2*- . [@] it ^w\/as 'actually#                      / 
11 3b  8 2200 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b  8 2210 1 1 b    11 2a ^farmer`s :w\ife#* .                             / 
11 3b  8 2220 1 1 b    12 2which ^[le?] who ^led . !t\o# .                    / 
11 3b  8 2230 1 1 b    11 2the -^wide . -spread ac:c\eptance of . str/ing#    / 
11 3b  9 2240 1 1 b    11 2in in ^British . !\agri'culture# .                 / 
11 3b  9 2250 1 1 b    11 2[@:m] . the ^farmer`s w/ife# -                     / 
11 3b  9 2260 1 1 b    11 2was . a ^woman . 'called . :\Ethel'frida#          / 
11 3b  9 2270 1 2 b    12 2^((which is)) . [@:m] ^Anglo-!S\axon 'times I`m    / 
11 3b  9 2270 1 1 b    12 2'going 'back to n/ow# -                            / 
11 3b  9 2280 1 2 b    11 2and . ^she was 'married to a m/an 'called .        / 
11 3b  9 2280 1 1 b    11 2"L\eo'bert# - .                                    / 
11 3b  9 2290 1 1 b    11 2[@:] ^when 'string first came \out#                / 
11 3b  9 2300 1 1 b    11 2((you see)) the ^{f\armers} were a:g\ainst it#     / 
11 3b 10 2310 1 1 b    11 2^farmers are :very cons\ervative#                  / 
11 3b 10 2320 1 1 b    11 2and ^there was !this . gr\oup . 'of# -             / 
11 3b 10 2330 1 1 b    11 2"^d\ie-hard :{^f\armers#}#                         / 
11 3b 10 2340 1 2 b    11 2who ^said they 'wouldn`t have 'anything to !d\o    / 
11 3b 10 2340 1 1 b    11 2with 'string#                                      / 
11 3b 10 2350 1 1 b    11 2and ^these . 'die-hards were :led !b\y# .          / 
11 3b 10 2360 1 1 b    11 2^this [@:m] - :Leo'bert and :\Ethel'frida# - -     / 
11 3b 10 2370 1 1 b    11 2you ^s/ee# .                                       / 
11 3b 10 2380 1 1 b    11 2^Leob\ert# .                                       / 
11 3b 10 2390 1 1 b    11 2was . ^hoeing his :little pl\/ot# -                / 
11 3b 10 2400 1 1 b    11 2he ^h\ad a 'little pl/ot# - .                      / 
11 3b 11 2410 1 1 b    11 2it`s ^not as 'small as the _plot :\/I`ve 'got#     / 
11 3b 11 2420 1 1 b    11 2but *it was a - a ^very 'little pl\/ot# .          / 
11 3b 11 2430 1 1 b    11 2and ( . coughs) ^as he* was :h\oeing it# -         / 
11 3b 11 2440 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 11 2450 1 1 b    11 2[dhi] . "^h\oe 'bit# .                             / 
11 3b 11 2460 1 1 b    11 2^flew off the h\andle# -                           / 
11 3b 11 2470 1 1 b    11 2and "^hit - !\/Ethel'frida# -                      / 
11 3b 11 2480 1 1 b    11 2in the "^n\aze# .                                  / 
11 3b 11 2490 1 1 b    11 2*- - . which ^is a !pr\omontory#;- -*;             / 
11 3b 11 2500 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 11 2510 1 1 b    11 2and ^she 'gave a !great cr\/y of# .                / 
11 3b 11 2520 1 1 b    11 2^I have been :hoed in the :n\aze#                  / 
11 3b 11 2530 1 1 b    11 2*- ((it was the)) ^sort of !cry you !h\eard#       / 
11 3b 12 2540 1 1 b    11 2in ^Anglo-'Saxon t/imes#                           / 
11 3b 12 2550 1 1 b    11 2^quite a !l\/ot ((you see))# - .                   / 
11 3b 12 2560 1 1 b    11 2^and . !L/\eobert#* .                              / 
11 3b 12 2570 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)* .                        / 
11 3b 12 2580 1 1 b    11 2was ^most a:gh\asted at 'this# .                   / 
11 3b 12 2590 1 1 b    11 2and he ^s=aid [?]# .                               / 
11 3b 12 2600 1 1 b    11 2he ^fl\ew to her#                                  / 
11 3b 12 2610 1 2 b    11 2be^cause he . ((was)) !d\early in 'love with his   / 
11 3b 12 2610 1 1 b    11 2w/ife#                                             / 
11 3b 12 2620 1 1 b    11 2and he ^s=aid# - -                                 / 
11 3b 12 2630 1 1 b    11 2my ^dear !\Ethel'frida# .                          / 
11 3b 12 2640 1 1 b    11 2^\Ethelfrida# .                                    / 
11 3b 12 2650 1 1 b    11 2"^\Eth - in {^f\act {he ^s\aid#}#}#                / 
11 3b 13 2660 1 1 b    11 2because they ^\used these 'short w=ords#           / 
11 3b 13 2670 1 1 b    11 2((in)) ^Anglo-'Saxon 'times as you !kn\ow#         / 
11 3b 13 2680 1 1 b    11 2*- ^=and# .                                        / 
11 3b 13 2690 1 1 b    11 2he said ^/Eth# -                                   / 
11 3b 13 2700 2 1 b    21 2I ^would has [l?] have [l?]*                       / 
11 3b 13 2710 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 13 2700 1 1(b    11 2as !lief have :cut off my :right \arm#             / 
11 3b 13 2720 1 1 b    11 2as ^have this h\/appen# .                          / 
11 3b 13 2730 1 1 b    11 2^straight 'up I :would as :lief have 'cut \off#    / 
11 3b 13 2740 1 1 b    11 2*- - and ^sh\e 'said#* -                           / 
11 3b 13 2750 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 14 2760 1 1 b    11 2^if thou 'hadst . t\ied# -                         / 
11 3b 14 2770 1 1 b    11 2the ^h\andle#                                      / 
11 3b 14 2780 1 1 b    11 2to the ^h\oe# .                                    / 
11 3b 14 2790 1 1 b    11 2^with ye !str\ing# -                               / 
11 3b 14 2800 1 2 b    11 2^this would !n\ot have {h\appened . '[eth] .       / 
11 3b 14 2800 1 1 b    11 2*[d@:]#}# - - .                                    / 
11 3b 14 2810 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 14 2820 1 1 b    11 2well ^he saw the :l\ogic* of 'this#                / 
11 3b 14 2830 1 1 b    11 2*- - . and ^that`s 'what - :brought him !r\ound# - / 
11 3b 14 2840 1 2 b    11 2and he ^str\/aightway sent m\essage to the         / 
11 3b 14 2840 1 1 b    11 2'king# - -                                         / 
11 3b 14 2850 1 1 b    11 2^saying that he ac!c\epted the wh/ole#;.*;         / 
11 3b 14 2860 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 14 2870 1 1 b    11 2^pr\inciple of str/ing# .                          / 
11 3b 14 2880 1 1 b    11 2and in^d\eed# .                                    / 
11 3b 15 2890 1 1 b    11 2^w\anted 'some# .                                  / 
11 3b 15 2900 1 1 b    11 2^giving his :{r\easons} for so :d\oing#            / 
11 3b 15 2910 1 1 b    11 2*- and* ^that 'message !is to":d\ay# .             / 
11 3b 15 2920 1 1 aud  20 2*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3b 15 2930 1 1 b    11 2^in The D\omesday 'Book#                           / 
11 3b 15 2940 1 1 b    11 2^in its o'riginal f\/orm#                          / 
11 3b 15 2950 1 1 b    11 2it ^s=ays# .                                       / 
11 3b 15 2960 1 1 b    11 2^hoed \Eth# .                                      / 
11 3b 15 2970 1 1 b    11 2^where is thy str\ing#                             / 
11 3c  1 2980 1 1 c    11 3^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 3c  1 2990 1 1 c    11 3[@m] . ^one of the 'most . :\interesting# .        / 
11 3c  1 3000 1 1 c    11 3^part-time 'occu'pations I :h\/ave# -              / 
11 3c  2 3010 1 1 c    11 3[@:m] . its of"^f\icial design/ation# .            / 
11 3c  2 3020 1 1 c    11 3is - ^maintenance y\/eoman# .                      / 
11 3c  2 3030 1 1 c    11 3^war 'office re:s\earch de'partment# .             / 
11 3c  2 3040 1 1 c    11 3((syll)) one`s ^known by the [i] in!\itials# .     / 
11 3c  2 3050 1 1 c    11 3^M /Y# .                                           / 
11 3c  2 3060 1 1 c    11 3^W 'O 'R :\D# -                                    / 
11 3c  2 3070 1 1 c    20 3*- [@m] - -*                                       / 
11 3c  2 3080 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  2 3090 1 3 c    12 3[@m] . the ^letters ((which)) have passed :into    / 
11 3c  2 3090 1 2 c    12 3[dhi:] . the :fabric of the '[ing] of ^English     / 
11 3c  2 3090 1 1 c    12 3!c\ulture n/ow# .                                  / 
11 3c  2 3100 1 1 c    11 3*^=and [@:m]#* -                                   / 
11 3c  2 3110 1 1 c    11 3^our j\ob# .                                       / 
11 3c  2 3120 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  2 3130 1 1 c    11 3at the re^search de:p\/artment# .                  / 
11 3c  3 3140 1 1 c    11 3^is . 'to . inv/ent . and {de^v/elop#}# .          / 
11 3c  3 3150 1 1 c    11 3^new . 'weapons . of w\arfare# -                   / 
11 3c  3 3160 1 2 c    12 3^we such ^things as [dhi: dhi: @m] . !rocket       / 
11 3c  3 3160 1 1 c    12 3pro'pelled . t/ank#                                / 
11 3c  3 3170 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  3 3180 1 1 c    11 3*- [@m . dhi:] . ^tank* pro'pelled r/ocket# *- -*  / 
11 3c  3 3190 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  3 3200 1 1 c    11 3^which was 'sort of a !s\equel#                    / 
11 3c  3 3210 1 1 c    11 3^y\/ou 'know#                                      / 
11 3c  3 3220 1 1 c    20 3*. and [@:m]*                                      / 
11 3c  3 3230 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  3 3240 1 2 c    12 3. a ^self . [in'dzekt] a ^self-e'jecting           / 
11 3c  3 3240 1 1 c    12 3:cr\op-'sprayer#                                   / 
11 3c  3 3250 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  3 3260 1 1 c    11 3*. ^which [@m]* . was for !c\/avalry 'officers# .  / 
11 3c  4 3270 1 1 c    11 3who ^wanted to 'spray their !r\iding 'crops#       / 
11 3c  4 3280 1 1 c    21 3*- [ae ?] and ^we were*                            / 
11 3c  4 3290 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  4 3300 1 2 c    11 3^spent _quite a lot of 'time on !th\is sort of     / 
11 3c  4 3300 1 1 c    11 3'thing# .                                          / 
11 3c  4 3310 1 1 c    11 3and then ^one d/ay# -                              / 
11 3c  4 3320 1 1 c    11 3our ^ch\ief# -                                     / 
11 3c  4 3330 1 2 c    12 3^who [@] for 'reasons you will ^understand ((that))/ 
11 3c  4 3330 1 1 c    12 3for :reasons of [@m] :military sec\urity# .        / 
11 3c  4 3340 1 1 c    11 3I ^c\annot 'give you his n/ame# -                  / 
11 3c  4 3350 1 1 c    11 3I can ^give you his ":w\/ife`s 'name#;*- - -*;     / 
11 3c  5 3360 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  5 3370 1 1 c    11 3^her name is !Mrs 'George :T\idmarsh#              / 
11 3c  5 3380 1 1 c    12 3*- - ^and !he - he ^called us* 'into his /office# ./ 
11 3c  5 3390 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  5 3400 1 1 c    11 3^and he was . _laughing !s\o 'much# .              / 
11 3c  5 3410 1 1 c    11 3he [k] . he could ^hardly 'get a :w\ord 'out# -    / 
11 3c  5 3420 1 1 c    11 3and we ^st\ood ar/ound# -                          / 
11 3c  5 3430 1 1 c    11 3the ^tears were 'streaming 'down his /eyes#        / 
11 3c  5 3440 1 2 c    11 3and he [?] he [?] he [?] just . ^brought him'self  / 
11 3c  5 3440 1 1 c    11 3to :st\op l/aughing#                               / 
11 3c  6 3450 1 1 c    11 3((and)) he ^s=aid# .                               / 
11 3c  6 3460 1 1 c    11 3I ^m\ust tell y/ou# -                              / 
11 3c  6 3470 1 1 c    11 3he said ^I have in:vented a "w\eapon# -            / 
11 3c  6 3480 1 1 c    11 3which is ^more destr\/uctive than# .               / 
11 3c  6 3490 1 1 c    11 3^[?]anything the {w/orld} has /ever kn\own# .      / 
11 3c  6 3500 1 1 c    11 3well ^talk a'bout g\iggle#                         / 
11 3c  6 3510 1 1 c    11 3*- . ^and we !s\aid* to _him# -                    / 
11 3c  6 3520 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  6 3530 1 1 c    11 3^what w\as it# .                                   / 
11 3c  6 3540 1 1 c    11 3^what is it 'that you 'have inv\ented#             / 
11 3c  6 3550 1 1 c    11 3and he [b] his ^f\ace became gr/ave# -             / 
11 3c  7 3560 1 1 c    11 3^and he s/aid# - .                                 / 
11 3c  7 3570 1 1 c    11 3it is the "^\/ultimate det\errent# -               / 
11 3c  7 3580 1 1 c    11 3he said ^what we w/ant# .                          / 
11 3c  7 3590 1 1 c    11 3is ^s=omething# .                                  / 
11 3c  7 3600 1 1 c    11 3which has ^some 'kind of its !\own int/elligence# -/ 
11 3c  7 3610 1 1 c    11 3and can ^fl/y# .                                   / 
11 3c  7 3620 1 1 c    11 3at ^h/eights# .                                    / 
11 3c  7 3630 1 1 c    11 3^over d\istances# .                                / 
11 3c  7 3640 1 1 c    11 3he said and ^we have . !f\ound this th/ing# -      / 
11 3c  7 3650 1 1 c    11 3and I ^c=all it# .                                 / 
11 3c  7 3660 1 1 c    11 3the ^human . m\issile# - .                         / 
11 3c  7 3670 1 1 c    11 3a ^h/uman# .                                       / 
11 3c  8 3680 1 1 c    11 3^who can fl\/y# .                                  / 
11 3c  8 3690 1 1 c    11 3^can a'chieve h/eight and d\istance# .             / 
11 3c  8 3700 1 2 c    11 3so we said well ^how do you get a 'human like      / 
11 3c  8 3700 1 1 c    11 3th\is#                                             / 
11 3c  8 3710 1 1 c    11 3he said ^th/at is the s\ecret he 'said# - -        / 
11 3c  8 3720 1 1 c    11 3^I am 'going to g\et# .                            / 
11 3c  8 3730 1 1 c    11 3a ^woman . p\ole 'vaulting ch/ampion#              / 
11 3c  8 3740 1 1 c    20 3*- - . and a*                                      / 
11 3c  8 3750 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  8 3760 1 1 c    11 3^gentleman . l\ong 'jump ch/ampion#                / 
11 3c  8 3770 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  8 3780 1 1 c    11 3*- ^and I`m* !going to !br\eed 'from them#         / 
11 3c  8 3790 1 1 c    11 3+- - - ^w\ell#;- -+;                               / 
11 3c  8 3800 1 1 aud  20 3+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3c  8 3810 1 1 c    11 3the ^sheer . sim"!pl\icity of 'this {i^d\ea#}# - . / 
11 3c  9 3820 1 1 c    11 3^had us ap!palled and a"m\azed# -                  / 
11 3c  9 3830 1 1 c    11 3and ^\I was the /one# .                            / 
11 3c  9 3840 1 1 c    11 3who was de^p\/uted#                                / 
11 3c  9 3850 1 1 c    11 3to ^f\/ind#                                        / 
11 3c  9 3860 1 1 c    11 3*. [dhi] ^woman . p\/ole vault 'champion#*         / 
11 3c  9 3870 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c  9 3880 1 1 c    11 3and the ^gentleman !l\ong jump 'champion#          / 
11 3c  9 3890 1 1 c    11 3"^w=ell# - .                                       / 
11 3c  9 3900 1 2 c    11 3( . coughs) I ^got onto the 'amateur athl/etic     / 
11 3c  9 3900 1 1 c    11 3as'soci'ation# -                                   / 
11 3c  9 3910 1 1 c    11 3and ^\actually# .                                  / 
11 3c  9 3920 1 1 c    11 3it was ^very 'difficult to f/ind#                  / 
11 3c  9 3930 1 2 c    11 3a "^s\ingle . 'woman {^p\ole vault#}               / 
11 3c  9 3930 1 1 c    11 3*:{^ch\ampion#}# .                                 / 
11 3c 10 3940 2 1 c    21 3they`re .*                                         / 
11 3c 10 3950 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 10 3940 1 1(c    11 3ap^parently "!very 'great dem\and#                 / 
11 3c 10 3960 1 1 c    11 3there`s ^just . 'something ab/out them# -          / 
11 3c 10 3970 1 2 c    12 3*- . and I could ^only - - . I could ^only* 'find  / 
11 3c 10 3970 1 1 c    12 3\/one#                                             / 
11 3c 10 3980 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 10 3990 1 1 c    11 3^who for the !purposes . of this pr/ogramme# .     / 
11 3c 10 4000 1 1 c    11 3I will ^have to 'call M\aud#;*- -*;                / 
11 3c 10 4010 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 10 4020 1 1 c    11 3an^other 'reason why I !sh\ould call her M/aud#    / 
11 3c 10 4030 1 1 c    11 3is because ^that was her "!n\ame#                  / 
11 3c 11 4040 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 11 4050 1 1 c    11 3*- - ( . coughs)* . and I ^stood her b/y# .        / 
11 3c 11 4060 1 1 c    11 3and ^then I 'went s/earching 'for# .               / 
11 3c 11 4070 1 1 c    11 3a ^gentleman . !l\/ong jump 'champion#             / 
11 3c 11 4080 1 1 c    11 3un^m\arried# .                                     / 
11 3c 11 4090 1 1 c    11 3well now ^gentlemen l\/ong . 'jump 'champions#     / 
11 3c 11 4100 1 1 c    11 3are ^much \/easier to 'find#                       / 
11 3c 11 4110 1 2 c    11 3because ^they all {w\ork} for the :Ministry of     / 
11 3c 11 4110 1 1 c    11 3!Tr\ansport#;*-*;                                  / 
11 3c 11 4120 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 11 4130 1 2 c    11 3the ^Ministry of 'Transport !take them 'round the  / 
11 3c 11 4130 1 1 c    11 3'streets of L\ondon# .                             / 
11 3c 12 4140 1 1 c    12 3and we ^[l@v] . where^ever they find a sp\ace#     / 
11 3c 12 4150 1 1 c    11 3which is ^l\arge e'nough#                          / 
11 3c 12 4160 1 1 c    11 3to ^do a !l\/ong jump#                             / 
11 3c 12 4170 1 1 c    11 3^then they !put a !p\arking 'meter 'on#;*- -*;     / 
11 3c 12 4180 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 12 4190 1 1 c    11 3^his name was _T\ed# -                             / 
11 3c 12 4200 1 1 c    11 3I ^got T/ed# .                                     / 
11 3c 12 4210 1 1 c    11 3and ^Maud tog/ether# .                             / 
11 3c 12 4220 1 1 c    11 3and I ex^pl\/ained to them# .                      / 
11 3c 12 4230 1 1 c    11 3^what their 'country wanted :fr\om them# - -       / 
11 3c 12 4240 1 1 c    11 3and I ^t/old them#                                 / 
11 3c 13 4250 1 1 c    11 3that [dhi:] . ^m/inistry# .                        / 
11 3c 13 4260 1 1 c    11 3the ^W/ar Office#                                  / 
11 3c 13 4270 1 1 c    11 3were ^willing to p/ay them# -                      / 
11 3c 13 4280 1 1 c    11 3^seven and !six for the m\arriage l/icence#;*-*;   / 
11 3c 13 4290 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 13 4300 1 1 c    11 3^fifty _bob a w/eek# - -                           / 
11 3c 13 4310 1 1 c    11 3for the ^term of their 'marriage [?] l/ife# -      / 
11 3c 13 4320 1 1 c    11 3^and . an !extra !seven and s\ix#                  / 
11 3c 13 4330 1 1 c    11 3for ^every 'missile 'they de!v\eloped# *- - -*     / 
11 3c 13 4340 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 13 4350 1 1 c    11 3they ^got m/arried# -                              / 
11 3c 13 4360 1 1 c    11 3and we ^w\aited#                                   / 
11 3c 13 4370 1 1 c    11 3*- - for ^this* mag!nificent pl\an# .              / 
11 3c 13 4380 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 14 4390 1 1 c    11 3^f\/ailed# .                                       / 
11 3c 14 4400 1 1 c    11 3with^in the !first few m\onths# .                  / 
11 3c 14 4410 1 1 c    11 3be^cause as !soon as 'Ted was m/arried# .          / 
11 3c 14 4420 1 1 c    11 3he for"^b\ade M/aud#                               / 
11 3c 14 4430 1 1 c    11 3^ever to d\o#                                      / 
11 3c 14 4440 1 1 c    11 3any ^pole 'vaulting a!g\ain# -                     / 
11 3c 14 4450 1 1 ?    20 3(female member of audience groans with regret)     / 
11 3c 14 4460 1 1 c    12 3. and it ^put the [g@] ^as you s/ay {^m/adam#}#    / 
11 3c 14 4470 1 2 c    11 3it [?] *we were as ^disapp\ointed -                / 
11 3c 14 4470 1 1 c    11 3{^n\aturally#}#*                                   / 
11 3c 14 4480 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 14 4490 1 1 c    11 3as ^y/ou are# -                                    / 
11 3c 14 4500 1 1 c    11 3^and . the !scheme never 'came to fru!\ition#      / 
11 3c 15 4510 1 1 c    11 3^I was sent 'round to !r\eason with T=ed#          / 
11 3c 15 4520 1 1 c    11 3and I ^said !wh\y#                                 / 
11 3c 15 4530 1 2 c    11 3^why have you forbade her to !!p\ole vault         / 
11 3c 15 4530 1 1 c    11 3{^anym\ore#}# .                                    / 
11 3c 15 4540 1 1 c    11 3and he ^said bec/ause# .                           / 
11 3c 15 4550 1 1 c    11 3I ^don`t think a w/oman# .                         / 
11 3c 15 4560 1 1 c    11 3^looks at'tractive !l\eaping up in the /air#       / 
11 3c 15 4570 1 1 c    11 3on the ^end of a 'great big "!st\ick#              / 
11 3c 15 4580 1 1 c    11 3*- ^so I !s=aid#* .                                / 
11 3c 15 4590 1 1 aud  20 3*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3c 15 4600 1 1 c    11 3but ^she \/is# .                                   / 
11 3c 15 4610 1 1 c    11 3a "^ch\ampion# .                                   / 
11 3c 15 4620 1 1 c    11 3he said ^I prefer her :motionless and tr\anquil#   / 
11 3c 16 4630 1 1 c    11 3to ^m/e#                                           / 
11 3c 16 4640 1 1 c    11 3^that 'way she`s b\eautiful#                       / 
11 3c 16 4650 1 1 c    11 3I ^said but she !d\/oes the 'vaulting so w\ell# .  / 
11 3c 16 4660 1 1 c    11 3he ^said I kn/ow#                                  / 
11 3c 16 4670 1 1 c    11 3but . with ^all her v/aults# .                     / 
11 3c 16 4680 1 1 c    11 3"^I 'love her :st\ill#                             / 
11 3d  1 4690 1 1 d    11 4^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 3d  1 4700 1 2 d    11 4( . coughs) ^I shall :have to - . :take you to a   / 
11 3d  1 4700 1 1 d    11 4!p\eriod of my l=ife# -                            / 
11 3d  1 4710 1 1 d    11 4which I`m ^n\ot very 'proud of /actually# - .      / 
11 3d  2 4720 1 2 d    11 4when . ^I was a pro!fessional . scr\abble          / 
11 3d  2 4720 1 1 d    11 4'player# -                                         / 
11 3d  2 4730 1 1 d    20 4*- [@m] - -*                                       / 
11 3d  2 4740 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  2 4750 1 1 d    11 4it ^h\appened# .                                   / 
11 3d  2 4760 1 1 d    11 4^at a !small ho'tel . in :S\ussex# .               / 
11 3d  2 4770 1 1 d    11 4where I ^happened to be st\/aying# .               / 
11 3d  2 4780 1 1 d    11 4( . coughs) ^after d\inner# .                      / 
11 3d  2 4790 1 1 d    11 4they ^used to !all go 'in the l\/ounge#            / 
11 3d  2 4800 1 1 d    11 4and ^all play :scr\abble# .                        / 
11 3d  2 4810 1 1 d    11 4like ^cr\/azy#                                     / 
11 3d  2 4820 1 1 d    11 4((and)) ^as I got :in through the d/oors# .        / 
11 3d  2 4830 1 1 d    11 4a ^strange w\/oman# .                              / 
11 3d  3 4840 1 1 d    11 4^rushed \/up to 'me#                               / 
11 3d  3 4850 1 1 d    11 4and ^said you`re !just the 'man I w\ant# -         / 
11 3d  3 4860 1 1 d    11 4she ^said you !=are . the m\an# .                  / 
11 3d  3 4870 1 1 d    11 4who is . ^on . that !programme . :My W\/ord# - .   / 
11 3d  3 4880 1 1 d    11 4and ^I said . y/es# .                              / 
11 3d  3 4890 1 1 d    11 4with a ^kind of . :gallant de:f\/iance#            / 
11 3d  3 4900 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)* .                        / 
11 3d  3 4910 1 2 d    11 4*- and* . she said ^well then . !you can "h\elp    / 
11 3d  3 4910 1 1 d    11 4us# .                                              / 
11 3d  3 4920 1 1 d    11 4she said . we`re ^playing scr\abble# .             / 
11 3d  3 4930 1 1 d    11 4and ^Mrs !Holcroft-"J\ames# .                      / 
11 3d  3 4940 1 1 d    11 4^claims to have :sc\ored# .                        / 
11 3d  4 4950 1 1 d    11 4^twenty-\eight# .                                  / 
11 3d  4 4960 1 1 d    11 4with the ^w\ord# .                                 / 
11 3d  4 4970 1 1 d    11 4"^t\ulp# .                                         / 
11 3d  4 4980 1 1 d    11 4and ^we say :there is n/o such w\ord# .            / 
11 3d  4 4990 1 1 d    11 4^could you h\elp us#                               / 
11 3d  4 5000 1 2 d    12 4and ^tell us 'whether [?] ^whether there !\is such / 
11 3d  4 5000 1 1 d    12 4{a ^w\ord#}#                                       / 
11 3d  4 5010 1 1 d    11 4as "^t\ulp# - - .                                  / 
11 3d  4 5020 1 1 d    11 4I ^hadn`t the ":f\aintest idea#                    / 
11 3d  4 5030 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  4 5040 1 1 d    11 4*. ( . coughs)* but I didn`t "^l\ike this w/oman# -/ 
11 3d  4 5050 1 1 d    11 4I ^s/aid# -                                        / 
11 3d  4 5060 1 1 d    11 4[@] ^very l/oudly#                                 / 
11 3d  4 5070 1 1 d    11 4well of "^course there`s such a 'word as "t\ulp# . / 
11 3d  5 5080 1 2 d    11 4I should have ^thought there was no !\argument     / 
11 3d  5 5080 1 1 d    11 4a'bout _that# -                                    / 
11 3d  5 5090 1 1 d    11 4and I ^realized the !whole . l\/ounge#             / 
11 3d  5 5100 1 1 d    11 4had ^fallen !s\ilent# .                            / 
11 3d  5 5110 1 1 d    11 4and . I ^had to !g\o on#                           / 
11 3d  5 5120 1 1 d    11 4I said ^y\es# .                                    / 
11 3d  5 5130 1 1 d    11 4^t/ulp# .                                          / 
11 3d  5 5140 1 2 d    12 4^is a - ((I)) had a ^terrible 'urge to say :many   / 
11 3d  5 5140 1 1 d    12 4'splendoured th\ing#                               / 
11 3d  5 5150 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  6 5160 1 2 d    11 4*- - I ^changed it . 'to . !tulp* is a :many       / 
11 3d  6 5160 1 1 d    11 4'coloured !str\ing# .                              / 
11 3d  6 5170 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  6 5180 1 2 d    12 4*. ^actually they they* ^use it !to . !tie up      / 
11 3d  6 5180 1 1 d    12 4b\irthday presents you s/ee# .                     / 
11 3d  6 5190 1 1 d    11 4and ^\everybody 'said# .                           / 
11 3d  6 5200 1 1 d    11 4^how do they !kn\ow all these 'things#             / 
11 3d  6 5210 1 1 d    11 4they ^are cl\ever#                                 / 
11 3d  6 5220 1 1 d    12 4they re^member [e] I ^know he`s 'got a 'big h\ead# / 
11 3d  6 5230 1 1 d    11 4*but ^y\/ou know#;- -*;                            / 
11 3d  6 5240 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  6 5250 1 1 d    12 4^and ^so I !!st\ayed in the r/oom#                 / 
11 3d  6 5260 1 1 d    11 4while they were ^playing scr/abble#                / 
11 3d  7 5270 1 1 d    11 4and ^people _kept coming !\up to me#               / 
11 3d  7 5280 1 1 d    11 4and saying ^is there 'such a 'word as :s\/o and so#/ 
11 3d  7 5290 1 2 d    11 4and I would ^answer !very c\/onfidently and        / 
11 3d  7 5290 1 1 d    11 4com'pletely f\alsely# .                            / 
11 3d  7 5300 1 2 d    11 4((the whole)) and I was ^taken as an !absolute     / 
11 3d  7 5300 1 1 d    11 4auth":\ority#                                      / 
11 3d  7 5310 1 1 d    12 4and ^people ^all the w\omen#                       / 
11 3d  7 5320 1 1 d    11 4^looked at 'me with :admir\ation#                  / 
11 3d  7 5330 1 1 d    11 4and I ^suddenly 'had an id/\ea# -                  / 
11 3d  8 5340 1 1 d    11 4I ^thought to mys\elf# .                           / 
11 3d  8 5350 1 2 d    11 4I ^have . be'come such a !consti'tuted auth\/ority / 
11 3d  8 5350 1 1 d    11 4'here#                                             / 
11 3d  8 5360 1 1 d    11 4it "^I could join 'in this :game of :scr\abble# .  / 
11 3d  8 5370 1 1 d    11 4and ^get them to 'play for "!m\/oney#;*.*;         / 
11 3d  8 5380 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  8 5390 1 1 d    11 4^I could knock 'off a :lot of "!\ackers# *-*       / 
11 3d  8 5400 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  8 5410 1 1 d    11 4^s=o# .                                            / 
11 3d  8 5420 1 1 d    11 4I ^s=aid#                                          / 
11 3d  8 5430 1 1 d    11 4^how about 'somebody giving ":m\e a 'game# .       / 
11 3d  8 5440 1 1 d    11 4and they said ^\oh 'no 'no#                        / 
11 3d  8 5450 1 1 d    11 4we ^wouldn`t "d/\are 'play with 'you#              / 
11 3d  9 5460 1 1 d    11 4you you know ^all the !words there !\is#           / 
11 3d  9 5470 1 1 d    11 4((and I said)) ^oh come c\ome#                     / 
11 3d  9 5480 1 1 d    11 4((you know)) even ^Achilles 'had his h\/eel#       / 
11 3d  9 5490 1 2 d    11 4which is a *^kind of [m@] 'mytho'logical           / 
11 3d  9 5490 1 1 d    11 4r\/eference you 'see# .                            / 
11 3d  9 5500 2 1 d    21 4^which was*                                        / 
11 3d  9 5510 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  9 5500 1 2(d    11 4!very much in !ch\/aracter *for 'this kind of      / 
11 3d  9 5500 1 1(d    11 4'thing# - -                                        / 
11 3d  9 5520 1 1 d    11 4^=and#;- -*;                                       / 
11 3d  9 5530 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d  9 5540 1 1 d    11 4^by the !end of the w/eek#                         / 
11 3d  9 5550 1 2 d    11 4I`d ^won !three 'hundred and :twenty-'seven        / 
11 3d  9 5550 1 1 d    11 4*p\ounds# -                                        / 
11 3d 10 5560 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 10 5570 1 1 d    11 4you see* I ^\upped {the ^st\akes#}#                / 
11 3d 10 5580 1 1 d    11 4you see and ^what I d\id#                          / 
11 3d 10 5590 1 1 d    11 4was ^when I !pl\ayed the g/ame# .                  / 
11 3d 10 5600 1 1 d    11 4^when I 'took the :l\etters# -                     / 
11 3d 10 5610 1 1 d    11 4I just ^put them :into "!any 'combin\ation# .      / 
11 3d 10 5620 1 1 d    11 4at ^\/all#                                         / 
11 3d 10 5630 1 1 d    11 4and ^{cl\aimed} that !they were w\ords *you s/ee# -/ 
11 3d 10 5640 2 1 d    21 4and . ^they were "!terribly*                       / 
11 3d 10 5650 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 10 5640 1 1(d    11 4well :s\/atisfied with 'this# .                    / 
11 3d 10 5660 1 2 d    11 4^and !I would have come 'out of it !very 'much the / 
11 3d 10 5660 1 1 d    11 4:w\inner#                                          / 
11 3d 11 5670 1 1 d    12 4un^til . ^S\aturday#                               / 
11 3d 11 5680 1 1 d    11 4^when a !{dr\eadful} 'thing :h\appened#            / 
11 3d 11 5690 1 1 d    11 4I was ^playing 'Mrs ":Tr\owbridge#                 / 
11 3d 11 5700 1 2 d    11 4we were ^on the [l] !very 'last :kn\ockings of the / 
11 3d 11 5700 1 1 d    11 4g/ame#                                             / 
11 3d 11 5710 1 1 d    11 4there were ^seven 'letters :l\eft in the b/ox# .   / 
11 3d 11 5720 1 1 d    11 4^I 'picked them /out#                              / 
11 3d 11 5730 1 1 d    11 4I ^found they were the :letters !Y 'V :A I :C \L# -/ 
11 3d 11 5740 1 1 d    11 4^so I . !l\/ooked at 'them#                        / 
11 3d 11 5750 1 1 d    11 4^s\even l/etters#                                  / 
11 3d 12 5760 1 1 d    11 4if ^I could go :\/out with this#                   / 
11 3d 12 5770 1 1 d    11 4I was a ^clear w/inner# .                          / 
11 3d 12 5780 1 1 d    11 4I ^made the w=ord# - -                             / 
11 3d 12 5790 1 1 d    11 4"^c\ivalry# .                                      / 
11 3d 12 5800 1 1 d    11 4^C 'I /V#                                          / 
11 3d 12 5810 1 1 d    11 4^A 'L 'R :\Y# - - .                                / 
11 3d 12 5820 1 1 d    11 4^so she !l\ooked at it# .                          / 
11 3d 12 5830 1 1 d    11 4((she)) said I`ve ^never !s\een that 'word#        / 
11 3d 12 5840 1 1 d    11 4I said ^yes [dhae] that`s 'that`s the :w\/ord#     / 
11 3d 12 5850 1 1 d    11 4^sc\ores f/ifty#                                   / 
11 3d 12 5860 1 1 d    11 4^m\y g/ame I 'think#                               / 
11 3d 12 5870 1 1 d    11 4^that`s an'other :twenty-'one p\ounds#             / 
11 3d 12 5880 1 1 d    11 4^\oh w/ell#                                        / 
11 3d 12 5890 1 1 d    11 4^tea /up {^((y/et))#}#                             / 
11 3d 12 5900 2 1 d    21 4*- and ^then*                                      / 
11 3d 12 5910 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 13 5900 1 1(d    11 4she !d\/id something that ch\illed me# .           / 
11 3d 13 5920 1 2 d    11 4she ^threw a "!d\ictionary :{^d\own on the#}       / 
11 3d 13 5920 1 1 d    11 4:{^t\able#}# .                                     / 
11 3d 13 5930 1 1 d    11 4and said "^{sh\ow me} the :w\ord# - - .            / 
11 3d 13 5940 1 1 d    11 4I ^felt my :lips go :dr\y#                         / 
11 3d 13 5950 1 2 d    11 4I ^measured the :distance be:tween my!self and the / 
11 3d 13 5950 1 1 d    11 4:d\/oor# .                                         / 
11 3d 13 5960 1 1 d    11 4but there were ^twelve w\omen in the 'way#         / 
11 3d 13 5970 2 1 d    21 4*- and their*                                      / 
11 3d 13 5980 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 13 5970 1 1(d    11 4^eyes were be:ginning to !h\arden#                 / 
11 3d 13 5990 2 1 d    21 4*. she said*                                       / 
11 3d 13 6000 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 13 5990 1 1(d    11 4^can you 'show me the the :word !written d\own# - ./ 
11 3d 14 6010 1 1 d    11 4I ^st\uttered#                                     / 
11 3d 14 6020 1 1 d    11 4and ^suddenly a v=oice said#                       / 
11 3d 14 6030 1 1 d    11 4^\/I can# - .                                      / 
11 3d 14 6040 1 1 d    11 4and it was this ^Mrs !Holcroft-J\ames#             / 
11 3d 14 6050 1 1 d    11 4^bless her !beautiful h\ide#;*-*;                  / 
11 3d 14 6060 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 14 6070 1 1 d    11 4she said ^you can 'show us the 'word c/ivalry#     / 
11 3d 14 6080 1 1 d    11 4she said ^come with m\e#                           / 
11 3d 14 6090 1 2 d    11 4we ^all 'piled into a mag!nificent old R\/olls she / 
11 3d 14 6090 1 1 d    11 4'had#                                              / 
11 3d 14 6100 1 1 d    11 4^fourt/een of us#                                  / 
11 3d 14 6110 1 1 d    11 4we ^went down to W\orthing# .                      / 
11 3d 14 6120 1 1 d    11 4to a ^c\inema th/ere# .                            / 
11 3d 15 6130 1 1 d    11 4and she ^stopped outs/ide#                         / 
11 3d 15 6140 1 1 d    11 4and ^l\/ooked up# .                                / 
11 3d 15 6150 1 1 d    11 4and ^there was a n\eon 'sign#                      / 
11 3d 15 6160 1 1 d    11 4she said ^th\ere it 'is# -                         / 
11 3d 15 6170 1 1 d    11 4and ^there on the n\/eon 'sign#                    / 
11 3d 15 6180 1 1 d    11 4^outside the c/inema# .                            / 
11 3d 15 6190 1 1 d    12 4it ^had a it ^s=aid# .                             / 
11 3d 15 6200 1 1 d    11 4^showing this w\eek# -                             / 
11 3d 15 6210 1 1 d    11 4^/El C\id# .                                       / 
11 3d 15 6220 1 1 d    11 4the ^dr/ama# .                                     / 
11 3d 15 6230 1 1 d    11 4of a ^woman`s !p\assion# .                         / 
11 3d 15 6240 1 1 d    11 4and a ^m/an`s c\ivalry#                            / 
11 3d 15 6250 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 15 6260 1 1 d    11 4*- - ((so I said))* ^what did I s\ay# -            / 
11 3d 15 6270 1 1 d    11 4well ^Mrs - Tr\owbridge#                           / 
11 3d 16 6280 1 1 d    11 4had the ^grace to ap\ologize#                      / 
11 3d 16 6290 1 1 d    12 4she said ^I - I ^owe you an ap\ology# -            / 
11 3d 16 6300 1 1 d    11 4I said you ^owe me !m\/ore than 'that#             / 
11 3d 16 6310 1 2 d    11 4you ^owe me :nearly a !hundred and *'twenty-'five  / 
11 3d 16 6310 1 1 d    11 4qu\id#;-* .;                                       / 
11 3d 16 6320 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 16 6330 1 1 d    11 4I`ll ^take j/ewellery#                             / 
11 3d 16 6340 2 1 d    21 4*- - well*                                         / 
11 3d 16 6350 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 16 6340 1 1(d    11 4^that was th\at#                                   / 
11 3d 16 6360 1 1 d    11 4ex^cept for about "!two hours l\ater# - .          / 
11 3d 16 6370 1 1 d    11 4I was ^with Mrs 'Holcroft-J/ames#                  / 
11 3d 16 6380 1 1 d    11 4we`d ^got rid of the /others#                      / 
11 3d 16 6390 1 1 d    11 4we were ^in the R/olls# .                          / 
11 3d 17 6400 1 1 d    11 4I was ^leaning "b\ack#                             / 
11 3d 17 6410 1 1 d    11 4on the ^rather 'sensuous uph/olstery#              / 
11 3d 17 6420 1 1 aud  20 4*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3d 17 6430 1 1 d    11 4*- and I ^s\aid to her#* .                         / 
11 3d 17 6440 1 1 d    11 4^h/ow did you m\anage it# -                        / 
11 3d 17 6450 1 1 d    11 4she said ^well I was !d\own in W/orthing#          / 
11 3d 17 6460 1 1 d    11 4^y\esterday#                                       / 
11 3d 17 6470 1 1 d    11 4and I ^n\oticed . the s/ign# .                     / 
11 3d 17 6480 1 1 d    11 4and I re^m\embered it# .                           / 
11 3d 17 6490 1 1 d    11 4so I said but ^h\ow#                               / 
11 3d 17 6500 1 1 d    11 4what ^h\appened# .                                 / 
11 3d 17 6510 1 1 d    11 4^w\ell ((she said))#                               / 
11 3d 17 6520 1 1 d    11 4it`s ^plain e!n\ough she said#                     / 
11 3d 17 6530 1 1 d    11 4^what ((had)) h\/appened 'is# .                    / 
11 3d 18 6540 1 2 d    11 4^one of the 'letters in the 'last w\ord of the     / 
11 3d 18 6540 1 1 d    11 4s/ign#                                             / 
11 3d 18 6550 1 1 d    11 4had ^f\used# .                                     / 
11 3d 18 6560 1 1 d    11 4I ^s\aid#                                          / 
11 3d 18 6570 1 1 d    11 4^you "m/ean# -                                     / 
11 3d 18 6580 1 1 d    11 4she said ^y\es#                                    / 
11 3d 18 6590 1 1 d    11 4the ^aitch of 'chivalry is g\one#                  / 
11 3e  1 6600 1 1 e    11 5it was - ^st\ock 'taking d/ay#                     / 
11 3e  1 6610 2 1 e    21 5*- in the*                                         / 
11 3e  1 6620 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  1 6610 1 1(e    11 5^BB'C . :sound ef'fects dep\artment# - -           / 
11 3e  1 6630 1 1 e    11 5^I was :w\/orking 'there at the 'time#             / 
11 3e  2 6640 1 1 e    11 5((this is)) ^s\ome 'time ag/o#                     / 
11 3e  2 6650 1 1 e    11 5when I ^first !c\ame to the 'BB/C#                 / 
11 3e  2 6660 1 2 e    11 5I was ^working in the _sound ef_fects              / 
11 3e  2 6660 1 1 e    11 5de_p/artment# .                                    / 
11 3e  2 6670 1 1 e    11 5^as a !junior _st\ore 'keeper# - -                 / 
11 3e  2 6680 1 1 e    11 5which ^m\eant . 'that# .                           / 
11 3e  2 6690 1 1 e    11 5( . coughs) my ^duties were :r\oughly#             / 
11 3e  2 6700 1 1 e    11 5that ^if a . :radio pro!d\ucer# .                  / 
11 3e  2 6710 1 1 e    11 5^had a !pl\ay#                                     / 
11 3e  2 6720 1 1 e    11 5a ^radio !pl\ay to prod/uce# -                     / 
11 3e  2 6730 1 1 e    11 5he would ^c\ome to m/e#                            / 
11 3e  3 6740 1 1 e    11 5and ^he would s\ay# .                              / 
11 3e  3 6750 1 1 e    11 5^f\or my pl/ay#                                    / 
11 3e  3 6760 2 1 e    22 5I ^want a . (horse clip-clop) *. ^and*             / 
11 3e  3 6770 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  3 6760 1 1(e    12 5a . (door *creaking)# .                            / 
11 3e  3 6780 1 1 e    12 5^and a (explosive fizz) - - ^=and#;.*;             / 
11 3e  3 6790 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  3 6800 1 1 e    11 5^I would :g\/ive him# .                            / 
11 3e  3 6810 1 1 e    11 5the ap^propriate ":g\adgets# .                     / 
11 3e  3 6820 1 1 e    11 5to ^m\ake these s/ounds# -                         / 
11 3e  3 6830 1 1 e    11 5and ^th=en# .                                      / 
11 3e  3 6840 1 1 e    11 5I would ^write out a !d\ocket# .                   / 
11 3e  3 6850 1 1 e    11 5which ^h\e would s/ign# .                          / 
11 3e  3 6860 1 1 e    11 5which ^s=aid# .                                    / 
11 3e  3 6870 1 1 e    11 5re^c\eived# .                                      / 
11 3e  3 6880 1 1 e    11 5^\one# .                                           / 
11 3e  3 6890 1 1 e    11 5(horse clip-clop) *. ^\one# .                      / 
11 3e  4 6900 1 1 e    20 5(door creaking) and a (explosive fizz) -*          / 
11 3e  4 6910 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  4 6920 1 1 e    11 5now that ^may not 'sound :m\uch of a j/ob#         / 
11 3e  4 6930 1 1 e    11 5to ^some *of the 'more soph\/isticated# - - -      / 
11 3e  4 6940 1 1 e    11 5but it ^was n\/ecessary#*;.;                       / 
11 3e  4 6950 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  4 6960 1 1 e    11 5to have ^had . a !g\ood sch/ooling# -              / 
11 3e  4 6970 1 1 e    11 5in ^order to be 'able to :spell w\/ords like#      / 
11 3e  4 6980 1 1 e    20 5(explosive fizz) *- - -*                           / 
11 3e  4 6990 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  4 7000 1 1 e    11 5and ^that was :all my :duties con:s\isted of#      / 
11 3e  4 7010 1 1 e    11 5of . ^finding the ap'propriate s\ound ef'fects#    / 
11 3e  4 7020 1 1 e    11 5when ^=asked for#                                  / 
11 3e  4 7030 1 1 e    11 5^signing them {/out} to the :p/eople# -            / 
11 3e  5 7040 1 2 e    11 5^and . [@?] oc!{c\asionally} :just . 'feeding .    / 
11 3e  5 7040 1 1 e    11 5:B\etty# - -                                       / 
11 3e  5 7050 1 1 e    11 5^Betty 'was the _is the :BB'C "!s\eagull#          / 
11 3e  5 7060 1 1 e    11 5who is ^\used#                                     / 
11 3e  5 7070 1 1 e    11 5in ^all !r\adio *pl/ays# .                         / 
11 3e  5 7080 1 2 e    11 5con^nected with . the !ocean or :sh\ipping and 'so / 
11 3e  5 7080 1 1 e    11 5on#                                                / 
11 3e  5 7090 2 1 e    21 5((she`s)) . "^actually [dhi:]* .                   / 
11 3e  5 7100 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  5 7090 1 1(e    11 5suc:cessor to "!\Esther# .                         / 
11 3e  5 7110 1 1 e    11 5who was the ^or\iginal s/eagull#                   / 
11 3e  5 7120 1 1 e    11 5^y/ou know#                                        / 
11 3e  5 7130 1 1 e    20 5(two seagull calls *two seagull calls*)            / 
11 3e  5 7140 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  5 7150 1 2 e    12 5who ^st\arted [@] you`ve ^heard ((her)) in :Desert / 
11 3e  5 7150 1 1 e    12 5'Island !D\iscs ((and 'so on))# .                  / 
11 3e  6 7160 1 1 e    11 5^who . [@:m] . !st\/arted with the 'BB'C#          / 
11 3e  6 7170 1 1 e    11 5when the ^BBC 'started :thirty 'years ag/o#        / 
11 3e  6 7180 1 1 e    11 5and ^who I be!lieve is !{n\ow a} :g\overnor#       / 
11 3e  6 7190 1 1 e    20 5but . *- - - [@m] - - -*                           / 
11 3e  6 7200 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  6 7210 1 1 e    11 5^there were . !thr\ee of us 'in the dep/artment# - / 
11 3e  6 7220 1 1 e    11 5my^s/elf# .                                        / 
11 3e  6 7230 1 1 e    12 5^my . my im^mediate s/enior# .                     / 
11 3e  6 7240 1 1 e    11 5who was a ^man called !George St/opes# .           / 
11 3e  6 7250 1 1 e    11 5and . ^M\/arie# *- .*                              / 
11 3e  7 7260 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  7 7270 1 1 e    11 5who was a ^girl we 'used in . :m\urder pl/ays# .   / 
11 3e  7 7280 1 2 e    11 5when^ever they 'wanted the :sound of a "!body      / 
11 3e  7 7280 1 1 e    11 5:falling to the :gr\ound#                          / 
11 3e  7 7290 1 1 e    11 5*((with a ^th\/ump#));-*;                          / 
11 3e  7 7300 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  7 7310 1 1 e    11 5we ^used to 'drop . :M\arie#                       / 
11 3e  7 7320 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  7 7330 1 1 e    11 5*^=and# .                                          / 
11 3e  7 7340 1 1 e    11 5the ^thr\/ee of us#* .                             / 
11 3e  7 7350 1 1 e    11 5were ^going :thr\ough#                             / 
11 3e  7 7360 1 1 e    11 5this . de^p/artment#                               / 
11 3e  7 7370 1 1 e    11 5"^l\isting#                                        / 
11 3e  7 7380 1 1 e    11 5^as I s/ay#                                        / 
11 3e  7 7390 1 1 e    11 5^all the s/ound ef'fects#                          / 
11 3e  7 7400 1 2 e    11 5or ^rather the "!{g\adgets} for !m\aking the s/ound/ 
11 3e  7 7400 1 1 e    11 5ef'fects#                                          / 
11 3e  7 7410 1 1 e    11 5that we ^had in st/ock# -                          / 
11 3e  8 7420 1 1 e    11 5and we ^c/ame# .                                   / 
11 3e  8 7430 1 1 e    11 5to the ^sh\elf# .                                  / 
11 3e  8 7440 1 1 e    11 5^marked . !simple 'monosyl'labic :s\ounds# .       / 
11 3e  8 7450 1 2 e    11 5which are ^rather . sort of :avant-{g\arde}        / 
11 3e  8 7450 1 1 e    11 5s\/ounds# .                                        / 
11 3e  8 7460 1 1 e    11 5[@:] ^like [@:m] . "!=oink#;*.*;                   / 
11 3e  8 7470 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  8 7480 1 1 e    11 5[@:m] . ^d=oink#;*.*;                              / 
11 3e  8 7490 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  8 7500 1 1 e    11 5^b=oink# .                                         / 
11 3e  8 7510 1 2 e    11 5and ^one which is :only [?] 'used in !th\ird       / 
11 3e  8 7510 1 1 e    11 5'programme pl/ays 'generally#                      / 
11 3e  8 7520 1 1 e    11 5which is . ge^d\oink#                              / 
11 3e  8 7530 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  8 7540 1 2 e    11 5*- - [@m] - ^which is* a :sort of !Br\echtian      / 
11 3e  8 7540 1 1 e    11 5s/ound#                                            / 
11 3e  8 7550 1 1 aud  20 5+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3e  8 7560 1 1 e    11 5+[@m] -+ ^when the :w\agon#                        / 
11 3e  9 7570 1 1 e    11 5^falls on 'Mother 'Courage`s f\oot#                / 
11 3e  9 7580 1 1 e    11 5there *there`s ^((3 to 4 sylls)) - ge!d\oink#      / 
11 3e  9 7590 1 2 e    12 5and ( . coughs) we - ^come to this [@m]* we ^come  / 
11 3e  9 7590 1 1 e    12 5to this sh\elf#                                    / 
11 3e  9 7600 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  9 7610 1 1 e    11 5and the [?] . ge^d/oink was 'there#                / 
11 3e  9 7620 1 1 e    11 5the ^b/oink was 'there#                            / 
11 3e  9 7630 1 1 e    11 5the ^d\oink was 'there# - -                        / 
11 3e  9 7640 1 1 e    11 5^but there was n/o . "\oink#;*-* -;                / 
11 3e  9 7650 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e  9 7660 1 1 e    11 5well now ^this . was a !terrible situ:\ation#      / 
11 3e  9 7670 1 1 e    11 5be^cause . !we were the {/only} /ones#             / 
11 3e  9 7680 1 1 e    11 5who ^had the !k\eys# -                             / 
11 3e 10 7690 1 1 e    11 5^M/arie# .                                         / 
11 3e 10 7700 1 1 e    11 5^George St/opes and my"s\elf# .                    / 
11 3e 10 7710 1 1 e    11 5if the "^oink was ":m\issing# .                    / 
11 3e 10 7720 1 1 e    11 5it ^meant !only /one th\ing# -                     / 
11 3e 10 7730 1 1 e    11 5that ^one of =us# .                                / 
11 3e 10 7740 1 1 e    11 5had ^st\/olen#                                     / 
11 3e 10 7750 1 1 e    11 5the ^\oinker# -                                    / 
11 3e 10 7760 1 1 e    11 5and then ^George St/opes#                          / 
11 3e 10 7770 1 1 e    11 5^br\oke# -                                         / 
11 3e 10 7780 1 1 e    11 5it`s ^dreadful to 'see a m/an#                     / 
11 3e 10 7790 1 1 e    11 5dis^\/inte'grate# *- .*                            / 
11 3e 10 7800 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 10 7810 1 1 e    11 5he ^said all r\ight#                               / 
11 3e 10 7820 1 1 e    11 5^don`t "l\ook at 'me# .                            / 
11 3e 10 7830 1 1 e    11 5^I 'stole the :\oinker# .                          / 
11 3e 10 7840 1 1 e    11 5and then the ^whole 'story came \out# .            / 
11 3e 11 7850 1 1 e    11 5he ^{h\ad} pur!l\/oined# .                         / 
11 3e 11 7860 1 1 e    11 5the ^BBC :\oinker# .                               / 
11 3e 11 7870 1 2 e    11 5to ^sell it to a !wealthy A'merican !oinker        / 
11 3e 11 7870 1 1 e    11 5col!l\ector#;*-*;                                  / 
11 3e 11 7880 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 11 7890 1 1 e    11 5for the ^sum of !eight and :n\/ine#                / 
11 3e 11 7900 1 1 e    11 5+. which he had+ "^sp\ent# .                       / 
11 3e 11 7910 1 1 aud  20 5+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3e 11 7920 1 1 e    11 5^th/en# .                                          / 
11 3e 11 7930 1 1 e    11 5in ^riotous l\iving#;*- -* .;                      / 
11 3e 11 7940 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 11 7950 1 1 e    11 5he ^flushed "!brick r\ed# .                        / 
11 3e 11 7960 1 1 e    11 5and we ^d\idn`t know 'what to s/ay#                / 
11 3e 11 7970 1 1 e    11 5be^cause we !kn\ew# -                              / 
11 3e 11 7980 1 1 e    11 5^that . a m/an#                                    / 
11 3e 11 7990 1 1 e    11 5who can ^make a con'fession like th\is# .          / 
11 3e 11 8000 1 1 e    11 5a ^BB!\C 'man# -                                   / 
11 3e 12 8010 1 1 e    11 5for ^h/im# .                                       / 
11 3e 12 8020 1 1 e    11 5^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 3e 12 8030 1 1 e    11 5^after t\elling us#                                / 
11 3e 12 8040 1 1 e    11 5there is ^only !one c\ourse#                       / 
11 3e 12 8050 1 2 e    11 5which ^honour [dip] dic'tates that :he should      / 
11 3e 12 8050 1 1 e    11 5_t\ake# - .                                        / 
11 3e 12 8060 1 2 e    11 5^silently I :went . to the :shelf . 'marked .      / 
11 3e 12 8060 1 1 e    11 5!sounds of !p\istol sh/ots# *-*                    / 
11 3e 12 8070 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 12 8080 1 1 e    11 5and I ^took \out#                                  / 
11 3e 12 8090 1 1 e    11 5a ^p\/istol 'shotter# *-*                          / 
11 3e 12 8100 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 12 8110 1 1 e    11 5and I ^h\anded it# .                               / 
11 3e 12 8120 1 1 e    11 5to ^George St\opes# -                              / 
11 3e 12 8130 1 1 e    11 5he ^went be'hind the f\iling c/abinet# -           / 
11 3e 12 8140 1 1 e    11 5and we ^{h\eard} . the b\ang# -                    / 
11 3e 13 8150 1 1 e    11 5^well it`s an !\ugly st/ory#                       / 
11 3e 13 8160 1 1 e    11 5I ^don`t *pre'tend it :\isn`t#;- .*;               / 
11 3e 13 8170 1 1 aud  20 5*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3e 13 8180 1 1 e    11 5there`s ^no 'more . :l/eft of 'it#                 / 
11 3e 13 8190 1 1 e    11 5we ^tried to ef{f/ace it} from our "m/emory# -     / 
11 3e 13 8200 1 1 e    11 5in "^f\act# -                                      / 
11 3e 13 8210 1 1 e    11 5the ^only :memory of it . that is !l\eft# .        / 
11 3e 13 8220 1 1 e    11 5is ^in the 'sound ef'fects de'partment "st\ill# -  / 
11 3e 13 8230 1 1 e    11 5where if you ^go in tod\ay# -                      / 
11 3e 13 8240 1 1 e    11 5for an ^\/oink# .                                  / 
11 3e 13 8250 1 1 e    11 5^you will be !l\ed# .                              / 
11 3e 13 8260 1 1 e    11 5to this ^empty 'space . 'on the sh\elf# -          / 
11 3e 13 8270 1 1 e    11 5^where the {\oinker} w\as# .                       / 
11 3e 14 8280 1 1 e    11 5and ^where there is now !just a c\ard#             / 
11 3e 14 8290 1 1 e    11 5^black \edged#                                     / 
11 3e 14 8300 1 1 e    11 5^which s\ays# -                                    / 
11 3e 14 8310 1 1 e    11 5^G St\opes#                                        / 
11 3e 14 8320 1 1 e    11 5^took \oinker#                                     / 
11 3f  1 8330 1 1 f    11 6well as ^I was !s\aying#                           / 
11 3f  1 8340 1 1 f    11 6there was ^this . [@ . ps] . sort of !j\ar 'thing# / 
11 3f  1 8350 1 1 f    11 6in the ^middle of our !m\antel'piece# *-*          / 
11 3f  1 8360 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  1 8370 1 1 f    11 6you ^s/ee#                                         / 
11 3f  1 8380 1 1 f    12 6and ^that`s ^that`s what !made me !s\ay it#;*-* -; / 
11 3f  1 8390 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  1 8400 1 1 f    11 6that`s ^really *!all there !\is#;-* -;             / 
11 3f  1 8410 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  2 8420 1 1 f    11 6[@:m] - - do you ^want to 'know a'bout the j\ar#   / 
11 3f  2 8430 1 1 f    11 6((2 sylls)) - ^w\ell#                              / 
11 3f  2 8440 1 1 f    12 6it`s ^it`s [@:m @: ?] ^in my 'lovely h\ouse#       / 
11 3f  2 8450 1 1 f    11 6in the ^poor 'quarter of !S\urrey#                 / 
11 3f  2 8460 1 1 f    21 6*- they ^have a*                                   / 
11 3f  2 8470 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  2 8480 1 1 f    11 6[@:] . ^in the 'middle of the :m\antel'piece#      / 
11 3f  2 8490 1 1 f    11 6there`s ^this sort of :metal !j\ar th/ing#         / 
11 3f  2 8500 1 1 f    11 6it`s ^called a 'conver!s\ation 'piece#             / 
11 3f  2 8510 1 1 f    11 6^when you have !g\uests#                           / 
11 3f  2 8520 1 1 f    11 6they ^s=ay# - .                                    / 
11 3f  2 8530 1 1 f    11 6^wh\at on /\earth`s 'that#                         / 
11 3f  2 8540 1 1 f    11 6*. you ^s/ee#;.*;                                  / 
11 3f  2 8550 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  3 8560 1 1 f    11 6^=and [@]# .                                       / 
11 3f  3 8570 1 1 f    11 6((the)) ^reason it it :g\/ot 'there#               / 
11 3f  3 8580 1 1 f    11 6was be^cause [@m] - my !w\ife#                     / 
11 3f  3 8590 2 1 f    21 6*[@:m] .*                                          / 
11 3f  3 8600 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  3 8590 1 2(f    11 6^said to me [dh] I`d :rather 'like you to :get a   / 
11 3f  3 8590 1 1(f    11 6!Grecian !\urn# -                                  / 
11 3f  3 8610 1 1 f    11 6be^c=ause#                                         / 
11 3f  3 8620 1 1 f    11 6my ^w\ife at that t/ime was# .                     / 
11 3f  3 8630 1 1 f    11 6^was [@] . _reading "!K\eats#                      / 
11 3f  3 8640 1 1 f    11 6she ^has these _terrible !ph\/ases you 'see#       / 
11 3f  3 8650 1 2 f    11 6and ^everything`s got to be [k?] 'under the !K\eats/ 
11 3f  3 8650 1 1 f    11 6'influence# -                                      / 
11 3f  3 8660 1 2 f    12 6and she said ^would you 'get a . [b] a ^go out and / 
11 3f  3 8660 1 1 f    12 6'buy a . [@?@] :Grecian "!\/urn#                   / 
11 3f  4 8670 1 1 f    11 6which will "^s\it 'there# .                        / 
11 3f  4 8680 1 1 f    11 6[@] ^so I _said well !yes of !c\ourse#             / 
11 3f  4 8690 1 2 f    12 6^yes I . and she ^said well I I !think \I`d better / 
11 3f  4 8690 1 1 f    12 6s/o#                                               / 
11 3f  4 8700 1 1 f    11 6be^cause y\/ou 'know#                              / 
11 3f  4 8710 1 1 f    11 6you ^know what you`re l\ike#                       / 
11 3f  4 8720 1 1 f    11 6your ^m\ind#                                       / 
11 3f  4 8730 1 2 f    12 6^drifts 'off to 'other [th] I ^said I`m !!perfectly/ 
11 3f  4 8730 1 1 f    12 6'capable my 'dear :g/\irl of# .                    / 
11 3f  4 8740 1 1 f    11 6^going and :buying a :Grecian :\/urn# .            / 
11 3f  4 8750 1 1 f    11 6^{g/ive me the} m/oney#                            / 
11 3f  4 8760 1 1 f    21 6*. ^so - - so . so*                                / 
11 3f  5 8770 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  5 8780 1 1 f    11 6she ^gave me 'three :p\/ounds#                     / 
11 3f  5 8790 1 1 f    11 6I ^took the !tr\ain up to 'Water{^l\oo#}#          / 
11 3f  5 8800 1 1 f    11 6and I ^found my'self in !S\oho# -                  / 
11 3f  5 8810 1 1 f    11 6there`s a sort of a^m\usement ar'cade in S/oho#    / 
11 3f  5 8820 1 1 f    11 6^so I 'had a 'go on the !r\ifle-'range# - .        / 
11 3f  5 8830 1 1 f    11 6^=and [@]#                                         / 
11 3f  5 8840 1 1 f    11 6[@?@] e^v\/entually#                               / 
11 3f  5 8850 1 1 f    11 6[@dh] I ^got . really "!qu\ite a 'pleasant v/ase#  / 
11 3f  5 8860 1 1 f    11 6it ^wasn`t "Gr\/ecian# -                           / 
11 3f  5 8870 1 1 f    11 6as a ^matter of f\act#                             / 
11 3f  6 8880 1 1 f    11 6it was [@z@] . ^vaguely 'vase !sh\aped#            / 
11 3f  6 8890 1 2 f    11 6and they had a ^lot of "!s\eashells {^st\uck all   / 
11 3f  6 8890 1 1 f    11 6'over it#}# *.*                                    / 
11 3f  6 8900 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  6 8910 1 1 f    11 6^forming the _word !m\other#                       / 
11 3f  6 8920 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  6 8930 1 1 f    11 6*- - -* it ^wasn`t very !K\eats I 'felt#           / 
11 3f  6 8940 1 1 f    11 6but ^definitely "!sh\/elly#                        / 
11 3f  6 8950 1 1 f    21 6*((and . and)) and - ^so I was -*                  / 
11 3f  6 8960 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  6 8970 1 1 f    11 6I was "^v\ery 'careful a'bout th/is#               / 
11 3f  6 8980 1 1 f    11 6^and !wr\apped it#                                 / 
11 3f  6 8990 1 1 f    11 6and ^held it at !{\arm`s} !l\ength#                / 
11 3f  6 9000 1 1 f    11 6^=and#                                             / 
11 3f  6 9010 1 1 f    11 6it ^started to !r\ain# .                           / 
11 3f  7 9020 1 1 f    11 6^so in !case the :rain should "!m\elt# .           / 
11 3f  7 9030 1 1 f    11 6the "^gl\ue# .                                     / 
11 3f  7 9040 1 2 f    11 6which "^stuck the :seashells 'forming the word     / 
11 3f  7 9040 1 1 f    11 6:m\/other on the _vase# .                          / 
11 3f  7 9050 1 2 f    11 6I [b] I ^thrust the 'vase . "!{\under my}          / 
11 3f  7 9050 1 1 f    11 6:r\aincoat# .                                      / 
11 3f  7 9060 1 2 f    11 6and ^pushed my way 'rapidly /out through the       / 
11 3f  7 9060 1 1 f    11 6"!t\urnstile# - -                                  / 
11 3f  7 9070 1 1 f    20 6*- -*                                              / 
11 3f  7 9080 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  7 9090 1 1 f    11 6the at^tendant was !t\/erribly 'nice#              / 
11 3f  7 9100 1 1 f    11 6and ^got a !br\oom#                                / 
11 3f  7 9110 1 1 f    11 6and ^helped *me :sweep up the :p\ieces#;- -*;      / 
11 3f  7 9120 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  7 9130 1 1 f    11 6because the ^turnstile !just coinc\ided#           / 
11 3f  8 9140 1 1 f    11 6with ^where the :j\ar was# .                       / 
11 3f  8 9150 1 1 f    11 6^=and# .                                           / 
11 3f  8 9160 1 1 f    11 6I ^now h\ad# .                                     / 
11 3f  8 9170 1 1 f    11 6a^bout !seventeen !sh\illings 'left#               / 
11 3f  8 9180 1 1 f    11 6you ^s/ee#                                         / 
11 3f  8 9190 1 1 f    11 6of my ^wife`s three p\ound#                        / 
11 3f  8 9200 1 1 f    11 6and ^still no !v\ase# -                            / 
11 3f  8 9210 1 1 f    11 6but I was ^walking :m\oodily# -                    / 
11 3f  8 9220 1 1 f    11 6to^wards 'Waterl\/oo# .                            / 
11 3f  8 9230 1 1 f    11 6be^cause I 'wanted to ":w\alk you _see#            / 
11 3f  8 9240 1 1 f    11 6be^cause the "!{r\ain} had then !st\opped# .       / 
11 3f  8 9250 1 1 f    11 6^=and#                                             / 
11 3f  8 9260 1 1 f    11 6I ^wanted to :save the m/oney#                     / 
11 3f  8 9270 1 2 f    11 6in ^case there was a !v\ase for 'seven'teen and    / 
11 3f  8 9270 1 1 f    11 6'something you s/ee# .                             / 
11 3f  9 9280 1 1 f    11 6and I ^suddenly 'saw ex"!actly the v\ase#          / 
11 3f  9 9290 1 1 f    11 6^in the 'window of a :private h\ouse# .            / 
11 3f  9 9300 1 1 f    11 6it was a very ^t\all {^thin v\ase#}#               / 
11 3f  9 9310 1 1 f    11 6*- so so I . so I ^knocked on the :d\oor#* .       / 
11 3f  9 9320 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f  9 9330 1 1 f    11 6((and)) an "^\awfully 'sweet 'lady c/ame#          / 
11 3f  9 9340 1 2 f    13 6and I ^said I [d] I`m ^[de] I ex^plained the :whole/ 
11 3f  9 9340 1 1 f    13 6po!s\ition#                                        / 
11 3f  9 9350 1 2 f    11 6a^bout how . "!desperately I 'needed the           / 
11 3f  9 9350 1 1 f    11 6v\/ase# - .                                        / 
11 3f 10 9360 1 1 f    11 6she was ^qu\ite k/ind#                             / 
11 3f 10 9370 1 1 f    11 6she ^had a sort of 'nip of :br\andy#               / 
11 3f 10 9380 1 1 f    11 6and ^then came 'back and :t\alked to me#           / 
11 3f 10 9390 1 1 f    11 6*. ^=and# .                                        / 
11 3f 10 9400 1 1 f    11 6^s=ee#                                             / 
11 3f 10 9410 1 1 f    20 6[@:m] .*                                           / 
11 3f 10 9420 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 10 9430 1 2 f    12 6and she ^said [m@] I ^said well [o] 'would you     / 
11 3f 10 9430 1 1 f    12 6!s\ell it to 'me#                                  / 
11 3f 10 9440 1 2 f    12 6and she ((said)) ^really I and I I ^pressed fifteen/ 
11 3f 10 9440 1 1 f    12 6:sh\illings into her h/and#                        / 
11 3f 10 9450 1 1 f    11 6and she ^seemed de"!l\ighted# -                    / 
11 3f 10 9460 1 2 f    11 6[ae ? @ i] I ^think she 'was the !d\aily 'woman    / 
11 3f 10 9460 1 1 f    11 6/actually *'and [@]#                               / 
11 3f 11 9470 1 1 f    11 6I - so I ^took this .* v\ase#                      / 
11 3f 11 9480 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 11 9490 1 1 f    11 6and I ^g\ot the 'train b/ack# .                    / 
11 3f 11 9500 1 1 f    11 6^=and# .                                           / 
11 3f 11 9510 1 1 f    11 6I was a ^bit \/early#                              / 
11 3f 11 9520 1 1 f    11 6so I ^went ((in))to the 'Red L\/ion#               / 
11 3f 11 9530 1 1 f    11 6which is "^just {n\ear} where I :l\ive# .          / 
11 3f 11 9540 1 1 f    11 6to ^have a qu\ick one#                             / 
11 3f 11 9550 1 1 f    11 6to ^cele'brate 'this th/ing# .                     / 
11 3f 11 9560 1 1 f    11 6and I was ^very c\areful#                          / 
11 3f 11 9570 1 1 f    11 6and I ^put the 'vase on the c\ounter#              / 
11 3f 11 9580 1 1 f    11 6and "^nobody was ar/ound#                          / 
11 3f 11 9590 1 1 f    11 6"^nobody was n/ear# .                              / 
11 3f 12 9600 1 1 f    11 6^and !Mr {Bl/ood} the p/ublican#                   / 
11 3f 12 9610 1 1 f    11 6for "^that is in:deed his :n\/ame# .               / 
11 3f 12 9620 2 1 f    21 6*[@]*                                              / 
11 3f 12 9630 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 12 9620 1 1(f    11 6^poured me a :dr=ink#                              / 
11 3f 12 9640 1 1 f    11 6now ^he`s got a !d\og# *-*                         / 
11 3f 12 9650 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 12 9660 1 1 f    11 6a ^very 'large :Als\atian# .                       / 
11 3f 12 9670 1 2 f    13 6and ^it`s it`s a "^c\urious sort of . [ve] . ^very / 
11 3f 12 9670 1 1 f    13 6n\/ice 'animal#                                    / 
11 3f 12 9680 1 1 f    11 6but a ^little c\urious# .                          / 
11 3f 12 9690 1 1 f    11 6and it ^reared \up# -                              / 
11 3f 12 9700 1 1 f    11 6you ^kn/ow#                                        / 
11 3f 12 9710 1 1 f    11 6and it "^licked . my 'very 'tall v\ase# .          / 
11 3f 12 9720 1 1 f    11 6and for ^one "!dreadful m\oment# .                 / 
11 3f 13 9730 1 1 f    11 6the ^v=ase#                                        / 
11 3f 13 9740 1 1 f    11 6^h\overed# .                                       / 
11 3f 13 9750 1 1 f    11 6^hovered and I !thought it was 'going to cr\ash# . / 
11 3f 13 9760 1 1 f    11 6^you kn\/ow#                                       / 
11 3f 13 9770 1 1 f    11 6but ^y\ou know#                                    / 
11 3f 13 9780 1 1 f    12 6^this ^this is the tr/uth#                         / 
11 3f 13 9790 1 1 f    11 6it ^isn`t a st=ory# -                              / 
11 3f 13 9800 1 1 f    11 6and it ^d\id 'crash#                               / 
11 3f 13 9810 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 13 9820 1 2 f    11 6*- - - it it it it it* "^abso'lutely 'smashed to   / 
11 3f 13 9820 1 1 f    11 6p\ieces# .                                         / 
11 3f 13 9830 1 1 f    11 6and ^there I w\as# .                               / 
11 3f 13 9840 1 1 f    12 6^absolutely [f] with my ^tr\ain f/are#             / 
11 3f 13 9850 1 1 f    11 6I had "^s\evenpence {^l\eft#}#                     / 
11 3f 13 9860 1 1 f    11 6^no v\ase#                                         / 
11 3f 13 9870 1 1 f    12 6^and and a ^Keats 'loving w\ife#                   / 
11 3f 13 9880 1 1 f    11 6^w\aiting#                                         / 
11 3f 13 9890 1 1 f    12 6^for her [va:] . I I and "^s\uddenly# .            / 
11 3f 14 9900 1 1 f    11 6it was "^fate a:g\ain#                             / 
11 3f 14 9910 1 1 f    12 6^playing it [@] ^just be:h\ind# -                  / 
11 3f 14 9920 1 1 f    11 6the ^sign on on on 'Mr 'Blood`s sh\elf#            / 
11 3f 14 9930 1 1 f    11 6which ^s=aid# .                                    / 
11 3f 14 9940 1 1 f    11 6^hot p\ies# .                                      / 
11 3f 14 9950 1 1 f    11 6^sandwiches 'cut 'fresh to /order# .               / 
11 3f 14 9960 1 2 f    11 6I ^saw an !old 'pewter 'tankard with the h\andle   / 
11 3f 14 9960 1 1 f    11 6'off#                                              / 
11 3f 14 9970 1 1 f    11 6I said "^how much for th\at# -                     / 
11 3f 14 9980 1 1 f    11 6and he said ^five bob d/ear# .                     / 
11 3f 14 9990 1 1 f    11 6and ^I said !quoting from :Sh\aw#                  / 
11 3f 1410000 1 1 f    11 6not ^l\ikely Bl/ood# .                             / 
11 3f 1410010 1 2 f    12 6*and he ^said ((syll)) . [@m] - and he ^said* !h\ow/ 
11 3f 1410010 1 1 f    12 6much _then#                                        / 
11 3f 1510020 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 1510030 1 1 f    11 6and ^I said "!s\evenpence# .                       / 
11 3f 1510040 1 2 f    11 6and ^grabbing my [tu:p?] 'pewter 'tankard with the / 
11 3f 1510040 1 1 f    11 6h/andle off# .                                     / 
11 3f 1510050 1 1 f    11 6I "^rushed 'in to my 'wife and s=aid# .            / 
11 3f 1510060 1 1 f    11 6I`ve ^g\ot it#                                     / 
11 3f 1510070 1 1 f    11 6and she said ^wh\ere#                              / 
11 3f 1510080 1 1 f    11 6^where \is this _thing#                            / 
11 3f 1510090 1 1 f    11 6which is - . "^abso'lutely w\onderful#             / 
11 3f 1510100 1 1 f    11 6and ^{p\ure} K\eats#                               / 
11 3f 1510110 1 1 f    11 6and I said "^th\ere# -                             / 
11 3f 1510120 1 1 f    11 6and there was this . ^rather sh\/abby#             / 
11 3f 1510130 1 1 f    11 6*. ((actually)) ^m\etal :{^th\ing#}#;.*;           / 
11 3f 1510140 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 1610150 1 2 f    11 6((and)) she said but ^that`s 'not a :Grecian       / 
11 3f 1610150 1 1 f    11 6v/ase# -                                           / 
11 3f 1610160 1 2 f    11 6((and I said)) ^Grecian 'vases . ((are a)) !very   / 
11 3f 1610160 1 1 f    11 6'bad th\ing# -                                     / 
11 3f 1610170 1 1 f    11 6^any v=ase# .                                      / 
11 3f 1610180 1 1 f    11 6^made from ch\ina# .                               / 
11 3f 1610190 1 1 f    11 6^I can t\ell you# .                                / 
11 3f 1610200 1 1 f    11 6it`ll "^sm\ash in a m/oment#                       / 
11 3f 1610210 1 2 f    12 6it ^might . the ^thing might 'last . :t/en         / 
11 3f 1610210 1 1 f    12 6'years# .                                          / 
11 3f 1610220 1 1 f    11 6it [lai] ^might last . :tw\o 'minutes# .           / 
11 3f 1610230 1 1 f    11 6but "^th\is# .                                     / 
11 3f 1610240 1 1 f    11 6and I ^pl\aced# .                                  / 
11 3f 1610250 1 1 f    11 6this ^\awful little p/ot#                          / 
11 3f 1610260 1 2 f    11 6in the *^middle of our :{m\antelpiece}             / 
11 3f 1610260 1 1 f    11 6"!r\everently#*                                    / 
11 3f 1710270 1 1 aud  20 6*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3f 1710280 1 1 f    11 6I ^said !th\is# .                                  / 
11 3f 1710290 1 1 f    11 6^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 3f 1710300 1 1 f    11 6in the ^words of K\eats# -                         / 
11 3f 1710310 1 1 f    11 6a ^thing of "!p\ewter# .                           / 
11 3f 1710320 1 1 f    11 6is a "^jar for "!\ever#                            / 
11 3g  110330 1 1 g    12 7^this is ((the)) ^this st\ory#                     / 
11 3g  110340 1 1 g    11 7is ^really a . a !tr\ibute# .                      / 
11 3g  110350 1 1 g    11 7to the ^man who com!p\iles this pr/ogramme# .      / 
11 3g  110360 1 1 g    11 7^Mr !Edward . 'J . !M\ason# .                      / 
11 3g  110370 1 2 g    11 7you see be^cause he`s !such a good [@:]            / 
11 3g  110370 1 1 g    11 7!m\arksman# .                                      / 
11 3g  210380 1 1 g    11 7with a "^r\ifle# -                                 / 
11 3g  210390 1 1 g    20 7*-*                                                / 
11 3g  210400 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  210410 1 2 g    13 7^I have 'difficulty getting :up in the '[mo: ?]    / 
11 3g  210410 1 1 g    13 7well ^I I ^have no 'difficulty getting "!\up# -    / 
11 3g  210420 1 2 g    11 7but I`ve ^difficulty getting 'up in a :civilized   / 
11 3g  210420 1 1 g    11 7!m\anner# .                                        / 
11 3g  210430 1 1 g    11 7^and . my !wife 'read . :s\/omewhere#              / 
11 3g  210440 1 2 g    11 7that ^this is . 'due to . a :shortage of           / 
11 3g  210440 1 1 g    11 7!\energy# -                                        / 
11 3g  210450 1 1 g    11 7^this sounded !pl\ausible#                         / 
11 3g  210460 1 1 g    11 7to ^m\/e# .                                        / 
11 3g  210470 1 1 g    11 7^and it can be !c\/ured# .                         / 
11 3g  210480 1 2 g    11 7^by . [@:m] . !taking . 'those little :{t\ablets   / 
11 3g  210480 1 1 g    11 7of} !gl\ucose# -                                   / 
11 3g  310490 1 1 g    11 7which ^give you !\energy# .                        / 
11 3g  310500 1 1 g    11 7*[@:m] . so she* ^g\ave me a 'packet#              / 
11 3g  310510 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  310520 1 1 g    11 7of ^{th\ese} !th\ings#                             / 
11 3g  310530 1 1 g    11 7and ^that`s r\/eally# .                            / 
11 3g  310540 1 2 g    11 7why . [@:m] . :Ted - no I ^haven`t 'filled it !\in / 
11 3g  310540 1 1 g    11 7yet {^h\ave I#}#                                   / 
11 3g  310550 1 1 ?    11 7^n\o#                                              / 
11 3g  310560 1 1 g    11 7*. well you ^s\ee# .                               / 
11 3g  310570 1 1 g    11 7this ^morning I got :\up#*                         / 
11 3g  310580 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  310590 1 1 g    11 7^=and [@:m]# -                                     / 
11 3g  310600 1 1 g    11 7my ^wife had !g\iven 'me the t/ablets#             / 
11 3g  310610 1 1 g    11 7and I`d ^slipped them 'in my !jacket !p\ocket#     / 
11 3g  310620 1 1 g    11 7when I ^woke up and sh\aved#                       / 
11 3g  410630 1 1 g    11 7and I was ^driving - [i] :{\into} !w\/ork#         / 
11 3g  410640 1 1 g    11 7and I ^got through St\aines#                       / 
11 3g  410650 1 2 g    11 7and I re^member 'looking in the 'driving           / 
11 3g  410650 1 1 g    11 7m\/irror# .                                        / 
11 3g  410660 1 1 g    11 7and I ^realized I`d !only :sh\/aved#               / 
11 3g  410670 1 1 g    11 7the ^r\/ight-hand 'side of my f\ace# .             / 
11 3g  410680 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  410690 1 2 g    10 7*and I`d* entirely for:{g\otten} to :shave the     / 
11 3g  410690 1 1 g    10 7!l\eft-hand 'side#                                 / 
11 3g  410700 1 1 g    12 7*- and ^then [?]I [?]* I ^r\/ealized# .            / 
11 3g  410710 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  410720 1 1 g    11 7^as I was :dr\/iving#                              / 
11 3g  410730 1 1 g    11 7that I ^had a ":t/orn kn\ee# .                     / 
11 3g  410740 1 1 g    11 7to my ^s\uit# .                                    / 
11 3g  510750 1 1 g    11 7the the ^kn\ee#                                    / 
11 3g  510760 1 1 g    11 7was was ^torn !\out# -                             / 
11 3g  510770 1 2 g    12 7^so I I was ^going to a :My 'Word re:cording !that / 
11 3g  510770 1 1 g    12 7\/evening# .                                       / 
11 3g  510780 1 1 g    11 7with the ^left . or 'down :\audience 'side#        / 
11 3g  510790 1 1 g    11 7^unsh\/aven#                                       / 
11 3g  510800 1 1 g    11 7and a ^large 'hole in my !kn\ee#                   / 
11 3g  510810 1 1 g    11 7((this was)) ^terribly :w\orrying# -               / 
11 3g  510820 1 1 g    11 7^=and#                                             / 
11 3g  510830 1 1 g    11 7^then I 'had a "!th\ought /actually#               / 
11 3g  510840 1 1 g    11 7in the ^middle of the _after:n\/oon# .             / 
11 3g  510850 1 1 g    11 7that I`d ^left a !s\uit#                           / 
11 3g  510860 1 1 g    11 7at the ^same day !cl\eaners#                       / 
11 3g  610870 1 1 g    11 7the ^previous !\August#                            / 
11 3g  610880 1 2 g    11 7*- - - [i] if ^I could 'only just col!lect* that   / 
11 3g  610880 1 1 g    11 7:s\uit#                                            / 
11 3g  610890 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  610900 1 1 g    11 7I could "^ch\ange# .                               / 
11 3g  610910 1 1 g    12 7^and . be^fore going 'onto the !sh\/ow#            / 
11 3g  610920 1 1 g    11 7and ^be sort of 'fairly re!!sp\ectable# - .        / 
11 3g  610930 1 1 g    11 7so I ^called in at the :sh\op#                     / 
11 3g  610940 1 1 g    11 7and I col^lected the :s\uit# .                     / 
11 3g  610950 1 1 g    11 7and I was ^walking along B/ond Street#             / 
11 3g  610960 1 1 g    11 7and I ^suddenly r/ealized#                         / 
11 3g  610970 1 1 g    11 7I had ^n/owhere to ch\ange# -                      / 
11 3g  610980 1 1 g    11 7so I ^thought the !best thing to d\o#              / 
11 3g  710990 1 1 g    11 7^pr\obably in B/ond Street#                        / 
11 3g  711000 1 1 g    11 7was to "^f\aint# .                                 / 
11 3g  711010 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  711020 1 2 g    11 7*and ^then [ae]* an !ambulance would 'come         / 
11 3g  711020 1 1 g    11 7a:l\ong# .                                         / 
11 3g  711030 1 1 g    11 7and I could ^pr\obably#                            / 
11 3g  711040 1 1 g    11 7^get the at:t\/endant# .                           / 
11 3g  711050 1 1 g    11 7^if it was a l\ady#                                / 
11 3g  711060 1 1 g    11 7to ^turn her h\ead#                                / 
11 3g  711070 1 1 g    11 7and ^I could 'change in the !\ambulance# -         / 
11 3g  711080 1 2 g    13 7^so I ^I`m ^I sort of !sw\ooned :{^g\ently#}       / 
11 3g  711080 1 1 g    13 7{a^w\ay#}#                                         / 
11 3g  711090 1 1 g    11 7^clutching my 'good s\uit#                         / 
11 3g  711100 1 1 g    11 7in ^B\ond Street# .                                / 
11 3g  711110 1 1 g    11 7and I got ^w\alked on# .                           / 
11 3g  811120 1 1 g    11 7by a *^rather 'large and . :muddy* !boxer :d\og#   / 
11 3g  811130 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  811140 1 1 g    11 7+- - who ^then !t\urned#                           / 
11 3g  811150 1 1 g    20 7and [eks iks]+                                     / 
11 3g  811160 1 1 aud  20 7+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3g  811170 1 1 g    11 7ex^pressed ad:ditional :\interest#                 / 
11 3g  811180 1 1 g    11 7so I ^got !\up#                                    / 
11 3g  811190 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  811200 1 1 g    12 7*- - - ^and [@] - - so* ^when I got to 'My :W\ord# / 
11 3g  811210 1 1 g    11 7and I ^had a "!r\otten s/upper#                    / 
11 3g  811220 1 1 g    11 7because I had ^n\o t/ime#                          / 
11 3g  811230 1 1 g    11 7and I ^dashed into a :self-h\elp#                  / 
11 3g  811240 1 1 g    11 7and I got ^caught \up#                             / 
11 3g  811250 1 1 g    11 7in a [n] ^whole 'line of _p\eople# .               / 
11 3g  911260 1 1 g    11 7^hurrying 'past all those . :th\/ings#             / 
11 3g  911270 1 1 g    11 7and I ^ended \up with# .                           / 
11 3g  911280 1 1 g    11 7with ^three 'lemon 'curd :t\/arts#                 / 
11 3g  911290 1 1 aud  20 7*(laughter and applause)*                          / 
11 3g  911300 1 1 g    11 7*- - which ^makes* you 'go !p\/ardon#              / 
11 3g  911310 1 1 g    20 7+. and a -+                                        / 
11 3g  911320 1 1 aud  20 7+(laughter and applause)+                          / 
11 3g  911330 1 1 g    11 7and a ^small 'white 'saucer of !mustard !p\ickles# / 
11 4   1   10 1 1 q1   11  ^Mr !Sp\eaker#                                     / 
11 4   1   20 1 3 q1   11  ^could the 'honourable 'gentleman 'say whether the / 
11 4   1   20 1 2 q1   11  :question . 'of . "!rights to fly :super'sonic     / 
11 4   1   20 1 1 q1   11  /aircraft#                                         / 
11 4   1   30 1 1 q1   11  on ^various r/outes# .                             / 
11 4   1   40 1 1 q1   11  ^has a_risen . in "!any w/ay#                      / 
11 4   1   50 1 2 q1   11  ^during the dis:cussion 'on the :new 'policy       / 
11 4   1   50 1 1 q1   11  _guide-lines for 'civil 'avi/ation# - - -          / 
11 4   2   60 1 1 a1   11  (coughs . ) ^[dh=i:]# .                            / 
11 4   2   70 1 1 a1   11  ^honourable :gentleman will :have to a":w\ait# .   / 
11 4   2   80 1 2 a1   11  ^[dhi @:m] - "!questions which my !right honourable/ 
11 4   2   80 1 1 a1   11  :fr\iend will be /answering#                       / 
11 4   2   90 1 1 a1   11  ^on the 'question of the :policy re":v\iew# -      / 
11 4   2  100 1 2 a1   11  and ^there'fore I 'think he 'must be               / 
11 4   2  100 1 1 a1   11  p\atient# - - -                                    / 
11 4   2  110 1 2 q2   11  ^does [dhi:] - :British . :Airways - "!Concorde    / 
11 4   2  110 1 1 q2   11  "!c\ontract# -                                     / 
11 4   3  120 1 1 q2   11  con^tain . an es"!c\ape cl/ause# .                 / 
11 4   3  130 1 2 q2   11  ^should - !operating [r@s] :rights . in ((the))    / 
11 4   3  130 1 1 q2   11  U'nited _States :not be forthc\/oming# - - -       / 
11 4   3  140 1 2 a1   12  ^[dhi:?] (coughs . ) I I`ve ^no 'reason to         / 
11 4   3  140 1 1 a1   12  sup:p\/ose#                                        / 
11 4   3  150 1 1 a1   11  that in ^f\act [@:]# .                             / 
11 4   3  160 1 2 a1   11  ^those 'oper'ation 'rights . will "!n\ot be        / 
11 4   3  160 1 1 a1   11  'forthc/oming# .                                   / 
11 4   3  170 1 2 a1   11  ^and [dhi:] con!tractual :question that would      / 
11 4   3  170 1 1 a1   11  a:{r\ise} if in "!f\act# .                         / 
11 4   4  180 1 1 a1   11  [@] ^we were :disap!p\/ointed in 'that re'spect#   / 
11 4   4  190 1 1 a1   11  ^will [?] of _course !have to _be con!s\idered#    / 
11 4   4  200 1 2 a1   11  I ^don`t 'think it would be ap:pr\/opriate for     / 
11 4   4  200 1 1 a1   11  'me# .                                             / 
11 4   4  210 1 1 a1   11  to ^add to 'that at :this st\age#                  / 
11 4   4  220 1 3 q3   11  I`m ^sure that the :whole 'House will              / 
11 4   4  220 1 2 q3   11  con'gratu'late my :right 'honourable :friend 'on   / 
11 4   4  220 1 1 q3   11  'the "!\energy#                                    / 
11 4   4  230 1 1 q3   11  ^that he is pur!suing 'visits a:br\/oad#           / 
11 4   4  240 1 1 q3   11  to ^try and !help . !firms to "!f\ind# .           / 
11 4   5  250 1 1 q3   11  [@:] and ^follow !\up 'markets# -                  / 
11 4   5  260 1 4 q3   11  but [?] . ^does he 'not {th\ink that [@:]#} -      / 
11 4   5  260 1 3 q3   11  "!having 'put their 'eggs into the :Common         / 
11 4   5  260 1 2 q3   11  :{{M\arket} :b\asket} as :most of the :CBI         / 
11 4   5  260 1 1 q3   11  !d\/id# .                                          / 
11 4   5  270 1 2 q3   11  and ^as the per'formance of "many of the "!f\/irms / 
11 4   5  270 1 1 q3   11  in the 'CB_I#                                      / 
11 4   5  280 1 1 q3   11  is ^pretty "!p\/oor# -                             / 
11 4   5  290 1 1 q3   11  "^\/outside the 'EE'C#                             / 
11 4   5  300 1 1 q3   11  as ^well as with":\/in it# .                       / 
11 4   6  310 1 2 q3   11  ^does he not 'think that he 'ought to 'have an     / 
11 4   6  310 1 1 q3   11  in:vesti:g\ation of 'some of 'these f/irms#        / 
11 4   6  320 1 2 q3   11  to ^see how their . :export de'partments are       / 
11 4   6  320 1 1 q3   11  :\organized# .                                     / 
11 4   6  330 1 1 q3   11  ^how many 'people they 'have in the f\ield# -      / 
11 4   6  340 1 2 q3   11  [@:] ^how many :people are [@:] . "!f\ollowing 'up / 
11 4   6  340 1 1 q3   11  [dhi:]#                                            / 
11 4   6  350 1 1 q3   11  ^j\ob that h/e does#                               / 
11 4   6  360 1 1 q3   11  ^does he not 'think "!this is !n\ecessary# - - -   / 
11 4   7  370 1 2 a2   11  I ^think there :is a :great 'deal [@:? . @:?@] of  / 
11 4   7  370 1 1 a2   11  !\/useful 'work#                                   / 
11 4   7  380 1 1 a2   11  to be ^done . "!\/in 'firms {them^s\/elves#}#      / 
11 4   7  390 1 2 a2   11  as to ^how they can :really :best de!pl\/oy their  / 
11 4   7  390 1 1 a2   11  'efforts# .                                        / 
11 4   7  400 1 1 a2   11  with par^t\/icular 'emphasis of 'course _on# .     / 
11 4   7  410 1 1 a2   11  ^doing "!b\/etter#                                 / 
11 4   7  420 1 1 a2   11  in ^export !m\arkets# .                            / 
11 4   7  430 1 2 a2   11  and ^I would :certainly en!c\/ourage 'firms to d\o / 
11 4   7  430 1 1 a2   11  'that# .                                           / 
11 4   8  440 1 2 a2   11  I ^think of 'course that . :one of the ad!vantages / 
11 4   8  440 1 1 a2   11  of [dhi:] . :planning a"!gr\/eement ap'proach#     / 
11 4   8  450 1 1 a2   11  ^that [@:] 'we shall be de:v\eloping# .            / 
11 4   8  460 1 1 a2   11  [@:] "^s\/oon#                                     / 
11 4   8  470 1 2 a2   11  will ^be to en!able us to :have a 'more . sort of  / 
11 4   8  470 1 1 a2   11  !str\uctured {dis^c\ussion#}#                      / 
11 4   8  480 1 1 a2   11  "^w\/ith firms# .                                  / 
11 4   8  490 1 1 a2   11  [@:m] a^bout their . [@:] 'export \effort# -       / 
11 4   8  500 1 1 a2   11  [@:m] . ^on [dhi:] !f\/irst point that 'my# .      / 
11 4   8  510 1 2 a2   11  [@:] ^{h\onourable} . [@] :fr\iend . [@ ?] s/aid . / 
11 4   8  510 1 1 a2   11  [@:] {of ^c/ourse#}#                               / 
11 4   9  520 1 1 a2   11  it ^still . re"!{m\ains} the [@:] the :c\/ase# .   / 
11 4   9  530 1 1 a2   11  that . a ^very "!l\arge p/art#                     / 
11 4   9  540 1 2 a2   11  in^deed [dhi:] !l\/arger 'part of _Britain`s       / 
11 4   9  540 1 1 a2   11  ex_ports#                                          / 
11 4   9  550 1 1 a2   11  ^are to [dhi:] . "!r\est of the w/orld# .          / 
11 4   9  560 1 1 a2   11  and ^only !th\/irty-'five per 'cent#               / 
11 4   9  570 1 1 a2   11  to the ^EE\C# - - -                                / 
11 4   9  580 1 1 q4   11  ^Mr !Sp\eaker# .                                   / 
11 4   9  590 1 2 q4   11  ^doesn`t the 'Secretary of State`s ":\/answer      / 
11 4   9  590 1 1 q4   11  {^((put)) to this qu/estion#}#                     / 
11 4  10  600 1 1 q4   11  ^smack of com"!pl\acency# -                        / 
11 4  10  610 1 1 q4   11  ^is he r\/eally 'following 'up#                    / 
11 4  10  620 1 1 q4   11  ^all the 'means used by ":\/other 'nations# .      / 
11 4  10  630 1 1 q4   11  ^within G\att# .                                   / 
11 4  10  640 1 1 q4   11  for ^in'creasing /exports# .                       / 
11 4  10  650 1 1 q4   11  for ex^\ample#                                     / 
11 4  10  660 1 1 q4   11  the Aus^tr\alian . sugg/estion# .                  / 
11 4  10  670 1 1 q4   11  of ^double !t\/ax re'lief# .                       / 
11 4  10  680 1 1 q4   11  ^for . _money _spent on :export pro!m\otion# -     / 
11 4  11  690 1 2 q4   11  ^would he 'not a'gree that it is es":s\ential at   / 
11 4  11  690 1 1 q4   11  the m/oment#                                       / 
11 4  11  700 1 1 q4   11  that ^more . "!sh\/ould be 'free for {^=exports#}# / 
11 4  11  710 1 2 q4   11  and ^less ab'sorbed with'in our 'public            / 
11 4  11  710 1 1 q4   11  s\ector# - -                                       / 
11 4  11  720 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 4  11  730 1 2 a2   12  I ^think [? @:] I would ac^cept on the !l\atter    / 
11 4  11  730 1 1 a2   12  p/oint#                                            / 
11 4  11  740 1 1 a2   11  that ^more of our re:sources !must g\/o#           / 
11 4  11  750 1 2 a2   12  ^into [@: . @:] ^into the 'balance of              / 
11 4  11  750 1 1 a2   12  ":p\ayments# .                                     / 
11 4  12  760 1 1 a2   11  [@:m] ^that is un:doubtedly [@?] the "!c/ase# .    / 
11 4  12  770 1 2 a2   11  and ^that of 'course is [dhi:] . :major . [@:]     / 
11 4  12  770 1 1 a2   11  :str\/ategy#                                       / 
11 4  12  780 1 1 a2   11  ^of [dhi: @] 'present :g\overnment# .              / 
11 4  12  790 1 1 a2   11  ^I ((can)) as"!s\/ure the 'honourable 'gentleman#  / 
11 4  12  800 1 1 a2   11  ^there is !no . com:placency at "/\all# .          / 
11 4  12  810 1 1 a2   11  ^in [dhi:] de'partment of !tr/ade#                 / 
11 4  12  820 1 2 a2   11  a^bout [dhi:] . re'quirements of 'Britain`s [@:]   / 
11 4  12  820 1 1 a2   11  :export !dr\ive# .                                 / 
11 4  13  830 1 1 a2   11  ^none at \all#                                     / 
11 4  13  840 1 1 a2   11  and ^I am :very !willing in!d\eed#                 / 
11 4  13  850 1 1 a2   11  ^to [@:] . "!st\udy# .                             / 
11 4  13  860 1 1 a2   11  ^any . [@:] ex!p\erience#                          / 
11 4  13  870 1 1 a2   11  ^any "!r\/elevant ex'perience {and ^pr\/actice#}#  / 
11 4  13  880 1 1 a2   11  that ^other 'nations h/ave# .                      / 
11 4  13  890 1 2 a2   11  which ^could be of as'sistance 'to our 'own export / 
11 4  13  890 1 1 a2   11  \effort# - - -                                     / 
11 4  13  900 1 2 II   20  (question and answer on hosiery supplementary      / 
11 4  13  900 1 1 II   20  follows)                                           / 
11 4  14  910 1 1 q5   11  ^is my 'honourable 'friend a:w\/are that# .        / 
11 4  14  920 1 1 q5   11  ^far too :m\/any# .                                / 
11 4  14  930 1 1 q5   11  of ^my con'stituents in :L\/eicester#              / 
11 4  14  940 1 1 q5   11  who de^pend up'on this :great !\industry# .        / 
11 4  14  950 1 2 q5   11  ^which has con!tributed so :{m\uch} . !t\/o        / 
11 4  14  950 1 1 q5   11  'exports#                                          / 
11 4  14  960 1 1 q5   11  and ^still "!d\/oes con'tribute so 'much to it# .  / 
11 4  14  970 1 1 q5   11  are ^now 'working on 'short :t\ime# - -            / 
11 4  14  980 1 2 q5   11  ^what is . my :honourable 'friend . :d\/oing a'bout/ 
11 4  14  980 1 1 q5   11  it#                                                / 
11 4  15  990 1 1 q5   11  and ^what as"!s\/urance 'can he 'give#             / 
11 4  15 1000 1 1 q5   11  that the ^government is a"!ware of the "!cr\isis# ./ 
11 4  15 1010 1 1 q5   11  in this ^great and tra:ditional \industry# - -     / 
11 4  15 1020 1 1 a3   11  [@:] - I can as^s\/ure my [?] 'honourable 'friend# / 
11 4  15 1030 1 1 a3   11  ^and in'deed my !\/other 'honourable 'friends#     / 
11 4  15 1040 1 2 a3   12  ^who I !know ^and !other 'honourable :members of   / 
11 4  15 1040 1 1 a3   12  the !{H\ouse on} !b\oth 'sides 'who# .             / 
11 4  16 1050 1 1 a3   11  ^share [dhi:] con!c\ern# .                         / 
11 4  16 1060 1 1 a3   11  ^of the "!w\/orkers 'in the 'industry#             / 
11 4  16 1070 1 2 a3   11  that ^something 'should be 'done to "!help this    / 
11 4  16 1070 1 1 a3   11  :great 'British :\/industry# -                     / 
11 4  16 1080 1 1 a3   11  [@:] ^that the g/overnment# .                      / 
11 4  16 1090 1 1 a3   11  "^\is in f/act# .                                  / 
11 4  16 1100 1 1 a3   11  ^taking :\action#                                  / 
11 4  16 1110 1 1 a3   11  ^I would re!fer . [dh] my 'honourable fr/iend#     / 
11 4  16 1120 1 1 a3   11  to the ^Prime 'Minister`s st=atement# .            / 
11 4  17 1130 1 1 a3   11  to the ^House on the :twenty-'third of :M\/ay# -   / 
11 4  17 1140 1 1 a3   11  ^when a!mong !\/other 'things#                     / 
11 4  17 1150 1 2 a3   11  he ^mentioned [dhi:] :possi'bilities [?] 'on       / 
11 4  17 1150 1 1 a3   11  'anti-:d/umping 'appli'cations# .                  / 
11 4  17 1160 1 1 a3   11  and ^also 'mentioned 'in par":t\/icular# .         / 
11 4  17 1170 1 3 a3   11  that the ^government would con!tinue to 'use the   / 
11 4  17 1170 1 2 a3   11  'powers they 'have 'under the . "!\/industry       / 
11 4  17 1170 1 1 a3   11  'act# .                                            / 
11 4  17 1180 1 2 a3   11  to en^sure that 'in this . !world-'wide            / 
11 4  17 1180 1 1 a3   11  re"!c\ession in t/extiles# .                       / 
11 4  18 1190 1 1 a3   11  "^jobs are 'not l\ost# - - -                       / 
11 4  18 1200 1 2 q6   11  ^but [@:] !!will my 'honourable [?] :{fr\iend}     / 
11 4  18 1200 1 1 q6   11  ac!c\/ept that [@:m]#                              / 
11 4  18 1210 1 1 q6   11  "^many . con:stituents in in in :L\/eicestershire# / 
11 4  18 1220 1 1 q6   11  ^and in'deed in !m\y con'stituen_cy#               / 
11 4  18 1230 1 1 q6   11  ^are af!{f\ected} :by _these _cheap !\imports# -   / 
11 4  18 1240 1 1 q6   11  and ^will he "!\also recogn/ize#                   / 
11 4  19 1250 1 4 q6   11  that [@:] . ^while [@:m] my :right honourable      / 
11 4  19 1250 1 3 q6   11  'friend the 'Prime Minister`s :{st\atement} was a a/ 
11 4  19 1250 1 2 q6   11  :{p\ortent of} :things to 'come in the             / 
11 4  19 1250 1 1 q6   11  "!f\/uture# -                                      / 
11 4  19 1260 1 2 q6   11  ^nothing 'actually 'seems to have been !done       / 
11 4  19 1260 1 1 q6   11  !y\et# -                                           / 
11 4  19 1270 1 1 q6   12  ^and [@:] !will he ^will he !really !s\eriously#   / 
11 4  19 1280 1 1 q6   11  "^re-ex/amine#                                     / 
11 4  19 1290 1 1 q6   11  the ^possib/ility#                                 / 
11 4  19 1300 1 1 q6   11  ^of !introd\/ucing# .                              / 
11 4  20 1310 1 1 q6   11  "^anti-'dumping m\/easures#                        / 
11 4  20 1320 1 2 q6   11  and the "^possi'bility of :import 'quotas and      / 
11 4  20 1320 1 1 q6   11  "!other . th=ings#                                 / 
11 4  20 1330 1 1 q6   11  to ^st\em the 'flow of _imports#                   / 
11 4  20 1340 1 1 q6   11  as ^soon as p\ossible# - -                         / 
11 4  20 1350 1 1 a3   11  [@?] ^w=ell#                                       / 
11 4  20 1360 1 1 a3   11  ^first of \all#                                    / 
11 4  20 1370 1 1 a3   11  to [?] I would ^say to my [r] 'honourable fr\iend# / 
11 4  20 1380 1 1 a3   11  that [?] ^anti-"!d\umping m/easures#               / 
11 4  20 1390 1 1 a3   11  can be ^taken 'by the _government "!\/only#        / 
11 4  21 1400 1 1 a3   11  ^on the !appli'cation 'by the ":tr\ade#            / 
11 4  21 1410 1 2 a3   11  ^that is a :repre'sentative :trade                 / 
11 4  21 1410 1 1 a3   11  as'soci:\ation# .                                  / 
11 4  21 1420 1 1 a3   11  so ^far as "!\imports are conc/erned# .            / 
11 4  21 1430 1 2 a3   11  we ^cannot 'take [dhi] :textile 'industry . :over  / 
11 4  21 1430 1 1 a3   11  !\all#                                             / 
11 4  21 1440 1 1 a3   11  one ^has to 'look at it :sector by !s\ector# .     / 
11 4  21 1450 1 2 a3   11  and ^if I 'take !two of [dhi:] . :subjects of 'this/ 
11 4  21 1450 1 1 a3   11  par!t\/icular 'question# -                         / 
11 4  22 1460 1 1 a3   11  "^socks 'and !t\ights# .                           / 
11 4  22 1470 1 1 a3   11  ^import 'pene'tration for ":s\ocks#                / 
11 4  22 1480 1 1 a3   11  is ^only . !three per :c\ent# .                    / 
11 4  22 1490 1 1 a3   11  in ^nineteen 'seventy-f/our# .                     / 
11 4  22 1500 1 1 a3   11  and for ^t/ights#                                  / 
11 4  22 1510 1 1 a3   11  was ^only . "!t\en per 'cent# .                    / 
11 4  22 1520 1 1 a3   11  we "^h\/ave to con'sider the 'problems#            / 
11 4  22 1530 1 1 a3   11  "^\on a 'central b/asis# .                         / 
11 4  22 1540 1 1 a3   11  ^f\/inally I would _say#                           / 
11 4  22 1550 1 1 a3   11  to my ^honourable fr/iend# -                       / 
11 4  22 1560 1 3 a3   12  ^that . [dhi:] . !Chancellor of the '[da ?] my     / 
11 4  22 1560 1 2 a3   12  ^right honourable 'friend the 'Chancellor of the   / 
11 4  22 1560 1 1 a3   12  'Duchy of L\/ancaster# .                           / 
11 4  23 1570 1 1 a3   11  "^r\/ecently#                                      / 
11 4  23 1580 1 1 a3   11  on the ^twelfth of J/une#                          / 
11 4  23 1590 1 2 a3   11  "^m\/et repre'sentatives of the 'textile           / 
11 4  23 1590 1 1 a3   11  'industry# .                                       / 
11 4  23 1600 1 1 a3   11  to ^follow /up# .                                  / 
11 4  23 1610 1 1 a3   11  [dhi:] ^Prime 'Minister`s st/atement#              / 
11 4  23 1620 1 1 a3   11  ^on the 'twenty-'third of :M\ay# - - -             / 
11 4  24 1630 1 6 a2   20  the report (Government Review of Aviation Policy)  / 
11 4  24 1630 1 5 a2   20  which has been submitted to me represents the      / 
11 4  24 1630 1 4 a2   20  advice of my officials meetings will now be        / 
11 4  24 1630 1 3 a2   20  arranged with the parties mainly concerned and I   / 
11 4  24 1630 1 2 a2   20  intend to make a statement in this House as soon as/ 
11 4  24 1630 1 1 a2   20  possible - - -                                     / 
11 4  24 1640 1 1 q7   11  ^would the 'Secretary of :St\ate# -                / 
11 4  24 1650 1 1 q7   11  ^tr\/y and 'give the 'House#                       / 
11 4  24 1660 1 2 q7   11  ^some i'dea of . ":{wh\en this 'statement might}   / 
11 4  24 1660 1 1 q7   11  :b\/e#                                             / 
11 4  25 1670 1 1 q7   11  and ^could he acc\/ept that [@:]#                  / 
11 4  25 1680 1 1 q7   11  ^m\any 'people 'in this H/ouse#                    / 
11 4  25 1690 1 1 q7   11  would ^h\ope#                                      / 
11 4  25 1700 1 1 q7   11  that ^this 'statement would !n\/ot be [@:m]# .     / 
11 4  25 1710 1 1 q7   11  ^dribbled :\out#                                   / 
11 4  25 1720 1 1 q7   11  in the ^last few d\ays#                            / 
11 4  25 1730 1 1 q7   11  be^fore . the House goes 'into re!c\ess#           / 
11 4  25 1740 1 1 q7   11  ((at the)) ^end of this !m\onth# -                 / 
11 4  25 1750 1 1 q7   11  ^would he agr\/ee that [@:m]# .                    / 
11 4  25 1760 1 1 q7   11  [@:] an "^absence of :such a :st\atement#          / 
11 4  26 1770 1 1 q7   11  [@:] . con^tinues to 'generate un:c\ertainty#      / 
11 4  26 1780 1 1 q7   11  in the ^\/industry#                                / 
11 4  26 1790 1 2 q7   11  ((and)) per^haps he !might like to 'take this      / 
11 4  26 1790 1 1 q7   11  :opport/unity 'to [@:]# .                          / 
11 4  26 1800 1 1 q7   11  re-^emphasize his sup!p\ort#                       / 
11 4  26 1810 1 1 q7   11  for the ^second _force !\airline# - - -            / 
11 4  26 1820 1 1 a2   11  ^well I would !c\ertainly [@:]# .                  / 
11 4  26 1830 1 1 a2   11  re^gr\et it 'if [@:]# .                            / 
11 4  26 1840 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^p\arts or#                                   / 
11 4  26 1850 1 2 a2   11  or or in^deed the !whole of [dhi: . @:m @:m]       / 
11 4  26 1850 1 1 a2   11  re:v/iew# .                                        / 
11 4  27 1860 1 1 a2   11  was to ^dribble !\out#                             / 
11 4  27 1870 1 1 a2   11  ^that`s 'not my in:tention at \all# .              / 
11 4  27 1880 1 1 a2   11  [@:] we ^sh\/all of 'course# .                     / 
11 4  27 1890 1 1 a2   11  [@: ? @:?] in^deed we :\are# .                     / 
11 4  27 1900 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^studying 'it . [@:] 'very :c/arefully# .     / 
11 4  27 1910 1 1 a2   11  ^=and [@:]#                                        / 
11 4  27 1920 1 1 a2   11  ^as I !s/aid#                                      / 
11 4  27 1930 1 1 a2   11  ^I`m !very 'anxious to !m\/ake a 'statement#       / 
11 4  27 1940 1 1 a2   11  ^just as [s] !s\oon as I c/an#                     / 
11 4  27 1950 1 1 a2   11  and I`m ^v\ery 'much a'ware of the p/oint#         / 
11 4  27 1960 1 1 a2   11  that the ^h\onourable 'gentleman m/ade# .          / 
11 4  28 1970 1 2 a2   12  a^bout . !not [@: . @:m] a^bout _taking !f\ull     / 
11 4  28 1970 1 1 a2   12  acc/ount 'of [@:]# .                               / 
11 4  28 1980 1 1 a2   11  the un^c\/ertainties#                              / 
11 4  28 1990 1 1 a2   11  that in^\evitably ex/ist# .                        / 
11 4  28 2000 1 2 a2   12  un^til the 'matter 'is . [@:? @:? @?] . until      / 
11 4  28 2000 1 1 a2   12  ^government 'policy is rev\ealed#                  / 
11 4  28 2010 1 1 q1   11  ((would the)) ^Secretary of St/ate# .              / 
11 4  28 2020 1 1 q1   11  ^like to 'take this 'opport/unity#                 / 
11 4  28 2030 1 2 q1   11  to ^answer the 'question 'which I 'addressed       / 
11 4  28 2030 1 1 q1   11  :earlier to the 'Parlia:m\/entary 'Under'secretary#/ 
11 4  29 2040 1 2 q1   11  con^cerning . 'the . :intro'duction of             / 
11 4  29 2040 1 1 q1   11  :super"!s\/onic 'flying _routes#                   / 
11 4  29 2050 1 1 q1   11  [@:m] . ^\in this rev/iew# .                       / 
11 4  29 2060 1 2 q1   11  [@:m] . ^if he 'finds him'self un'able or          / 
11 4  29 2060 1 1 q1   11  un_willing to :publish the 'whole re"!p\/ort# .    / 
11 4  29 2070 1 2 q1   11  "^would he con'sider 'publishing . the             / 
11 4  29 2070 1 1 q1   11  sta!t\istical d/ata#                               / 
11 4  29 2080 1 1 q1   11  ^which was sub:m\itted 'by the p/arties#           / 
11 4  30 2090 1 2 q1   11  ^and on 'which he . :reached his . or "!will 'reach/ 
11 4  30 2090 1 1 q1   11  his con:cl\/usions# .                              / 
11 4  30 2100 1 1 q1   11  and ^f\/inally# .                                  / 
11 4  30 2110 1 1 q1   11  ^would he 'not a:gr\/ee# .                         / 
11 4  30 2120 1 2 q1   11  that it ^would be the !worst of "![?]\/all         / 
11 4  30 2120 1 1 q1   11  'worlds# .                                         / 
11 4  30 2130 1 1 q1   11  if ^p\/ublic 'money#                               / 
11 4  30 2140 1 1 q1   11  were ^\/used#                                      / 
11 4  30 2150 1 1 q1   11  to ^f\/inance#                                     / 
11 4  30 2160 1 2 q1   11  ^either . as an in!vestment 'or by                 / 
11 4  30 2160 1 1 q1   11  :nationaliz:\/ation# .                             / 
11 4  30 2170 1 1 q1   11  the ^oper'ation of the !s\econd f/orce# .          / 
11 4  31 2180 1 1 q1   11  to com^pete with the :p\/ublic 'money#             / 
11 4  31 2190 1 1 q1   11  which is al"^r\/eady in 'British \Airways# - - -   / 
11 4  31 2200 1 1 a2   11  the . ^honourable g\entleman#                      / 
11 4  31 2210 1 2 a2   11  has . ^asked a !series of :really quite            / 
11 4  31 2210 1 1 a2   11  !\/interesting 'questions# .                       / 
11 4  31 2220 1 1 a2   11  [@:] the ^f\/irst one I`m a'fraid#                 / 
11 4  31 2230 1 1 a2   11  I ^c\/an`t 'help him a'bout very 'much#            / 
11 4  31 2240 1 1 a2   11  for the ^\/obvious 'reason#                        / 
11 4  31 2250 1 1 a2   11  that the re^port has !n\/ot 'yet been 'published# ./ 
11 4  32 2260 1 1 a2   11  and I ^wouldn`t 'wish to . have :b\its of it#      / 
11 4  32 2270 1 1 a2   11  ^dribbled /out# -                                  / 
11 4  32 2280 1 1 a2   11  ^as [dhi:@] . !previous . qu/estioner# .           / 
11 4  32 2290 1 1 a2   11  was ^anxious for :me to a!v\oid# .                 / 
11 4  32 2300 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^on [dhi: ? @:] "!{s\econd} sugg\/estion#     / 
11 4  32 2310 1 1 a2   11  that the ^h\onourable 'gentleman m/ade#            / 
11 4  32 2320 1 1 a2   11  a^bout [@:] . sta!t\istical d/ata# .               / 
11 4  32 2330 1 1 a2   11  [@:] . I will ^c\ertainly con'sider th/at# .       / 
11 4  32 2340 1 2 a2   12  if ^that would 'be [@: @:?] ^see whether 'I can    / 
11 4  32 2340 1 1 a2   12  h\elp# .                                           / 
11 4  33 2350 1 2 a2   11  ^lastly :on his [@:] !point a'bout [@: . @:]       / 
11 4  33 2350 1 1 a2   11  :government :m\oney# .                             / 
11 4  33 2360 1 2 a2   11  [@:m] ^being 'put 'into '[dhi: @: . @:] 'second    / 
11 4  33 2360 1 1 a2   11  :f\/orce#                                          / 
11 4  33 2370 1 1 a2   11  [@:m] ^as he de!scr\/ibes it# .                    / 
11 4  33 2380 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^and his !v\/iew on 'that#                    / 
11 4  33 2390 1 1 a2   11  ^w=ell# .                                          / 
11 4  33 2400 1 1 a2   11  I would ^rather not !c\/omment#                    / 
11 4  33 2410 1 1 a2   11  be^yond 'making per'haps the !\obvious p/oint# .   / 
11 4  33 2420 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^that [@:] his "!v\/iew on 'this#             / 
11 4  34 2430 1 1 a2   11  ^doesn`t 'seem to ac:c\ord#                        / 
11 4  34 2440 1 1 a2   11  with the ^view of "!v\/ery 'many 'people#          / 
11 4  34 2450 1 2 a2   11  as^soci'ated "!{w\ith} the 'second 'force          / 
11 4  34 2450 1 1 a2   11  :\airline# -                                       / 
11 4  34 2460 1 1 q8   11  ^will [dhi: @:m] :Secretary of :St\ate [@:]# .     / 
11 4  34 2470 1 1 q8   11  ac^cept that I :welcome his pl/ans#                / 
11 4  34 2480 1 2 q8   11  to con^sult 'with what :he calls !interested       / 
11 4  34 2480 1 1 q8   11  !p\arties# .                                       / 
11 4  34 2490 1 2 q8   11  ^may I 'hope that those :interested 'parties will  / 
11 4  34 2490 1 1 q8   11  :not only 'be . !{\us here in} !P\/arliament#      / 
11 4  35 2500 1 1 q8   11  but the ^p\/assengers# .                           / 
11 4  35 2510 1 1 q8   11  who ^find them'selves in :\/Europe#                / 
11 4  35 2520 1 1 q8   11  ^having to _pay !two to three :{t\imes} as :m\uch# / 
11 4  35 2530 1 1 q8   11  to ^travel by !\/air# .                            / 
11 4  35 2540 1 1 q8   11  as the ^s\ame p/assengers#                         / 
11 4  35 2550 1 2 q8   11  would ^have to _pay . _travelling in i:dentical    / 
11 4  35 2550 1 1 q8   11  _aircraft in the U'nited St\ates# .                / 
11 4  35 2560 1 1 q8   11  ^can we [?] be "!s\ure# .                          / 
11 4  36 2570 1 1 q8   11  that ^these g/uidelines# .                         / 
11 4  36 2580 1 1 q8   11  will ^look 'after the !p\/assenger#                / 
11 4  36 2590 1 1 q8   11  and ^not just 'after . the :m\inistry# - - -       / 
11 4  36 2600 1 1 a2   11  ^well sir [@:m] . !can`t [@:m] \obviously# .       / 
11 4  36 2610 1 1 a2   11  [@:m . @] ^guaran"!t\ee 'to [@:]#                  / 
11 4  36 2620 1 1 a2   11  ^talk to a :repre'sentative 'body of ":p\assengers#/ 
11 4  36 2630 1 1 a2   11  be^cause I`m !n\/ot at all 'sure whether# .        / 
11 4  36 2640 1 1 a2   11  ^such a 'repre'sentative 'body ex:\ists# .         / 
11 4  36 2650 1 1 a2   11  ^b=ut#                                             / 
11 4  36 2660 1 2 a2   12  ^what I would !certainly [@:] - 'have [@:] :f\ull  / 
11 4  36 2660 1 1 a2   12  ^take !f\/ull ac'count of# .                       / 
11 4  37 2670 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^in !\/all my 'thinking about 'this#          / 
11 4  37 2680 1 2 a2   11  ^is of _course the _interests of the               / 
11 4  37 2680 1 1 a2   11  !p\/assenger# .                                    / 
11 4  37 2690 1 1 a2   11  as ^w\/ell as 'the [@:]# .                         / 
11 4  37 2700 1 1 a2   11  ^airlines inv\olved# - .                           / 
11 4  37 2710 1 1 q9   11  ^would the 'Secretary of 'State [@] acc\ept#       / 
11 4  37 2720 1 2 q9   11  that ^some of 'us [@:] . are :interested !not 'only/ 
11 4  37 2720 1 1 q9   11  in the sur"!v\ival# .                              / 
11 4  38 2730 1 1 q9   11  of ^British 'Cale'donian /Airways#                 / 
11 4  38 2740 1 1 q9   11  but ^in its _future !pr\ogress# -                  / 
11 4  38 2750 1 1 q9   11  ^and [@:] !when he is con:sidering this :m\atter# ./ 
11 4  38 2760 1 1 q9   11  ^would he ac:cept from :m\/e# .                    / 
11 4  38 2770 1 2 q9   11  that ^if there 'were to be :any 'question of       / 
11 4  38 2770 1 1 q9   11  :revoc\ation# .                                    / 
11 4  38 2780 1 2 q9   11  of the ^licences al:ready :{gr\anted to that}      / 
11 4  38 2780 1 1 q9   11  :\airline# .                                       / 
11 4  38 2790 1 2 q9   11  to ^such places as To:ronto At:lanta and           / 
11 4  38 2790 1 1 q9   11  :Bahr\/ain# .                                      / 
11 4  39 2800 1 1 q9   11  ^that could in!d\/eed 'lead to 'strangul\ation# .  / 
11 4  39 2810 1 1 q9   11  ^which would [@:?] per:haps !only :b\/e# .         / 
11 4  39 2820 1 1 q9   11  [@:? @:?] ^confir!m\/ation 'of the 'policy#        / 
11 4  39 2830 1 1 q9   11  ^some of us sus:p\ect# .                           / 
11 4  39 2840 1 2 q9   11  may be ^forth'coming from the 'Secretary of        / 
11 4  39 2840 1 1 q9   11  _St\ate# - - -                                     / 
11 4  39 2850 1 2 a2   11  (sighs . ) ^well I !think that [@:] (sighs - )     / 
11 4  39 2850 1 1 a2   11  :that would a!gain 'be to an:t\/ici'pate# .        / 
11 4  39 2860 1 1 a2   11  [@:] and I`m ^not pre'pared to "!d\/o 'that# .     / 
11 4  40 2870 1 2 a2   11  [@:] . of ^course [@: . @] :one of [dhi: m?]       / 
11 4  40 2870 1 1 a2   11  ":c\entral things#                                 / 
11 4  40 2880 1 1 a2   11  that we ^have to con:s\ider# .                     / 
11 4  40 2890 1 1 a2   11  ^is [dhi: . @:] :r/ole# .                          / 
11 4  40 2900 1 1 a2   11  ^and [@:] . !f\uture#                              / 
11 4  40 2910 1 1 a2   11  "^of [dhi: @:] :second 'force !c\oncept#           / 
11 4  40 2920 1 1 a2   11  ^as it e_m=erged# .                                / 
11 4  40 2930 1 1 a2   11  ^some _five years a!g\o# .                         / 
11 4  40 2940 1 1 a2   11  ^and I as!sure the [?] 'honourable g/entleman#     / 
11 4  40 2950 1 2 a2   11  ^we shall be !giving it 'very 'very 'careful       / 
11 4  40 2950 1 1 a2   11  'thought ind\eed# .                                / 
11 4  41 2960 1 1 q10  11  be^fore he :comes to 'his con:cl\usions#           / 
11 4  41 2970 1 2 q10  11  ^would the right 'honourable 'gentleman            / 
11 4  41 2970 1 1 q10  11  ac"!c\ept# .                                       / 
11 4  41 2980 1 2 q10  11  ^that . se!curity 'guaran'teed by . :public        / 
11 4  41 2980 1 1 q10  11  :m\/oney# -                                        / 
11 4  41 2990 1 1 q10  11  ^world-'wide pres!t\/ige# .                        / 
11 4  41 3000 1 1 q10  11  and . ^oper'ational 'cross :s\/ubsidy#             / 
11 4  41 3010 1 2 q10  11  are in^herent advantages . of a ":st\/ate          / 
11 4  41 3010 1 1 q10  11  'carrier# -                                        / 
11 4  41 3020 1 2 q10  11  and that ^if con'ditions of ":genuinely 'fair      / 
11 4  41 3020 1 1 q10  11  compe:t\/ition#                                    / 
11 4  41 3030 1 2 q10  11  ^are to be en!sured for a :second force            / 
11 4  41 3030 1 1 q10  11  :\/airline# -                                      / 
11 4  42 3040 1 2 q10  11  ^full ac'count must be 'taken . 'in his re'view .  / 
11 4  42 3040 1 1 q10  11  :\of this# - -                                     / 
11 4  42 3050 1 2 a2   11  I ^shall of 'course 'take ac'count of "\/all       / 
11 4  42 3050 1 1 a2   11  'relevant 'factors#                                / 
11 4  42 3060 1 2 a2   11  ^in [@:] !seeking to 'make . what I :hope will 'be / 
11 4  42 3060 1 1 a2   11  [dhi:] . cor:rect de!c\isions#                     / 
11 4  42 3070 1 1 q11  11  ^will the re'view in!cl\ude consider/ation#        / 
11 4  43 3080 1 1 q11  11  of [dhi] ^present pos/ition#                       / 
11 4  43 3090 1 2 q11  11  where^by (([@])) . an _airline can ob'tain a       / 
11 4  43 3090 1 1 q11  11  "!l\icence for a par'ticular r/oute#               / 
11 4  43 3100 1 1 q11  11  but is ^then den\ied#                              / 
11 4  43 3110 1 1 q11  11  ^desig!n\ation 'on that 'route# .                  / 
11 4  43 3120 1 1 q11  11  and ^s\/econdly#                                   / 
11 4  43 3130 1 2 q11  11  ^will the 'Secretary of 'State _give us an         / 
11 4  43 3130 1 1 q11  11  as":s\/urance# .                                   / 
11 4  43 3140 1 1 q11  11  that [dhi . k] (([@])) re^sults of 'this rev/iew#  / 
11 4  43 3150 1 2 q11  11  will ^not re'sult in [@:] pro'ducing a 'fait       / 
11 4  43 3150 1 1 q11  11  ac"!c\ompli#                                       / 
11 4  44 3160 1 1 q11  11  as ^far as the :House of !C\ommons is conc/erned# ./ 
11 4  44 3170 1 2 q11  11  but ^we will 'have an 'oppor:tunity of de!b\/ating / 
11 4  44 3170 1 1 q11  11  the 'matter#                                       / 
11 4  44 3180 1 1 q11  11  be"^fore 'final de'cisions are :r\eached#          / 
11 4  44 3190 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 4  44 3200 1 1 a2   11  I ^can`t [@:] :pr\omise#                           / 
11 4  44 3210 1 1 a2   11  a de^b/ate#                                        / 
11 4  44 3220 1 1 a2   11  be^{f\ore} I :make a !!st\atement# .               / 
11 4  44 3230 1 2 a2   11  [@:] but of ^course I 'would be :very "!\anxious   / 
11 4  44 3230 1 1 a2   11  for the H/ouse# -                                  / 
11 4  45 3240 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^to [@:] . de"!b\/ate the 'matter# .          / 
11 4  45 3250 1 1 a2   11  [@] ^on the :b\asis 'of a st/atement#              / 
11 4  45 3260 1 2 a2   11  and ^I should 'certainly . [@:] :wish for 'that to / 
11 4  45 3260 1 1 a2   11  be :d\one# -                                       / 
11 4  45 3270 1 2 a2   12  ^on his [@:] :other 'point a'bout [@:] :licences   / 
11 4  45 3270 1 1 a2   12  'and [@:] - ^licences and . 'desig":n\ation# .     / 
11 4  45 3280 1 1 a2   11  "^w\ell# .                                         / 
11 4  45 3290 1 2 a2   11  I [?] - ^think there :may be "!{s\ome              / 
11 4  45 3290 1 1 a2   11  obser'vations} [@:] :\/on 'that 'matter# .         / 
11 4  46 3300 1 1 a2   11  but I ^don`t ac'cept the impli"!c\ation#           / 
11 4  46 3310 1 2 a2   11  of ^what the :honourable !gentleman I 'think was   / 
11 4  46 3310 1 1 a2   11  inf\erring# - - -                                  / 
11 4  46 3320 1 4 a3   20  I have nothing to add to the statement of Her      / 
11 4  46 3320 1 3 a3   20  Majesty`s government`s policy towards the Arab     / 
11 4  46 3320 1 2 a3   20  boycott of Israel which I gave on the fifth of May / 
11 4  46 3320 1 1 a3   20  in reply to a question from my honourable friend   / 
11 4  47 3330 1 2 q6   11  ^but [@:] while !not 'wishing to 'be               / 
11 4  47 3330 1 1 q6   11  un:ch\aritable#                                    / 
11 4  47 3340 1 1 q6   11  to my ^right honourable fr/iend#                   / 
11 4  47 3350 1 2 q6   11  be^cause I 'know his !f\eelings 'on these          / 
11 4  47 3350 1 1 q6   11  m/atters# -                                        / 
11 4  47 3360 1 1 q6   11  ^is he aw/\are#                                    / 
11 4  47 3370 1 1 q6   11  that ^[dhi:] . !boycott con!t\/inues 'and#         / 
11 4  47 3380 1 1 q6   11  the ^pressure is 'mounting !all the !t\ime# -      / 
11 4  47 3390 1 1 q6   11  ^when "!d\oes he f/eel#                            / 
11 4  47 3400 1 1 q6   11  ^that [@:] !either h/e#                            / 
11 4  47 3410 1 1 q6   11  ^or his !honourable fr/iend#                       / 
11 4  47 3420 1 1 q6   11  will ^be !in a pos/ition#                          / 
11 4  48 3430 1 2 q6   11  to ^make a !far more "!detailed statement a'bout   / 
11 4  48 3430 1 1 q6   11  the 'British [pwai] 'government`s p\olicy# .       / 
11 4  48 3440 1 2 q6   11  ^so that it will be !quite 'clear to "!\all        / 
11 4  48 3440 1 1 q6   11  conc/erned#                                        / 
11 4  48 3450 1 1 q6   11  that a ^British g/overnment#                       / 
11 4  48 3460 1 1 q6   11  will ^not t/olerate#                               / 
11 4  48 3470 1 2 q6   11  "^these 'kind of im'pediments to 'free             / 
11 4  48 3470 1 1 q6   11  tr\ade# - - -                                      / 
11 4  48 3480 1 1 a3   11  it has al^ready 'been !m\/ade 'clear#              / 
11 4  49 3490 1 2 a3   11  that Her ^Majesty`s 'government are op!posed to .  / 
11 4  49 3490 1 1 a3   11  :and de!pl\/ore#                                   / 
11 4  49 3500 1 1 a3   11  the ^Arab b\oycott# .                              / 
11 4  49 3510 1 2 a3   11  ^I believe that !more is to be 'gained in this     / 
11 4  49 3510 1 1 a3   11  :m\/atter#                                         / 
11 4  49 3520 1 3 a3   11  by sup^porting !policies and 'actions :aimed at    / 
11 4  49 3520 1 2 a3   11  [dhi:] . 'reso!l\ution of the 'Arab-'Israel        / 
11 4  49 3520 1 1 a3   11  c/onflict# .                                       / 
11 4  49 3530 1 1 a3   11  in "^all its 'manifest/ations# .                   / 
11 4  49 3540 1 1 a3   11  and ^also !by . dis!cussing with . f\/irms# .      / 
11 4  49 3550 1 1 a3   11  ^any b\oycott 'problems they f/ace# .              / 
11 4  50 3560 1 1 a3   11  ^as my of:ficials "!d\o from 'time to t/ime# .     / 
11 4  50 3570 1 1 a3   11  ^rather 'than by 'statements in this :H\ouse# .    / 
11 4  50 3580 1 1 q5   11  ^can my 'honourable _friend in the !m\/eantime#    / 
11 4  50 3590 1 1 q5   11  as^s\ure the H/ouse# .                             / 
11 4  50 3600 1 1 q5   11  that ^neither !British !L\eyland# .                / 
11 4  50 3610 1 2 q5   11  nor ^any [?] :other con'cern in !which . the       / 
11 4  50 3610 1 1 q5   11  :{p\ublic} 'holds a sub!{st\antial} . :p\/art# .   / 
11 4  51 3620 1 1 q5   11  ^w\ill b/ow#                                       / 
11 4  51 3630 1 1 q5   11  to ^this [di] de:plorable b\oycott# -              / 
11 4  51 3640 1 1 a3   11  ^[dhi:] com!mercial 'policy 'of . :f\/irms#        / 
11 4  51 3650 1 2 a3   11  ^whether or 'not there 'is a :public :st\/ake in   / 
11 4  51 3650 1 1 a3   11  them#                                              / 
11 4  51 3660 1 2 a3   12  is a ^matter for pri^marily 'for [dhi] 'management / 
11 4  51 3660 1 1 a3   12  con":c\erned# .                                    / 
11 4  51 3670 1 2 a3   11  [@] we ^have in this 'House "!pr\eviously 'answered/ 
11 4  51 3670 1 1 a3   11  a qu/estion#                                       / 
11 4  51 3680 1 1 a3   11  a^bout !British L/eyland# .                        / 
11 4  51 3690 1 1 a3   11  ^and the 'Arab b/oycott# .                         / 
11 4  52 3700 1 1 a3   11  and I be^lieve on !th\/at oc'casion#               / 
11 4  52 3710 1 1 a3   11  I was ^able to !s\atisfy#                          / 
11 4  52 3720 1 1 a3   11  my ^honourable fr/iend# .                          / 
11 4  52 3730 1 2 a3   11  [@] that ^British 'Leyland :policies 'were in 'fact/ 
11 4  52 3730 1 1 a3   11  corr\ect# .                                        / 
11 4  52 3740 1 3 II   20  (following an answer in response to questions about/ 
11 4  52 3740 1 2 II   20  what steps the government is taking to promote     / 
11 4  52 3740 1 1 II   20  exports to the EEC)                                / 
11 4  52 3750 1 1 q12  11  ^now that [dhi:] . :refe:rendum is be"!h\ind us# - / 
11 4  53 3760 1 2 q12  11  [@:] and there`s ^no 'point in 'trying to 'make .  / 
11 4  53 3760 1 1 q12  11  po'litical ":m\ileage# -                           / 
11 4  53 3770 1 1 q12  11  ^out of . '[dhi:] :worrying :d\eficits# .          / 
11 4  53 3780 1 1 q12  11  in ^in this :f/ield# .                             / 
11 4  53 3790 1 2 q12  12  ^will he 'not ^will he 'not 'now a'gree that [dhi:]/ 
11 4  53 3790 1 1 q12  12  :national !\institute`s# .                         / 
11 4  53 3800 1 1 q12  11  [@:] o^p\/inion#                                   / 
11 4  53 3810 1 2 q12  11  that ^the . ef!fect . of our :membership of :EE!\C / 
11 4  53 3810 1 1 q12  11  on this m/atter was# .                             / 
11 4  53 3820 1 1 q12  11  was ^m/arginal#                                    / 
11 4  54 3830 1 2 q12  11  is [dhi:] ^probably the 'more cor!r\/ect           / 
11 4  54 3830 1 1 q12  11  in'terpre'tation of the 'figures#                  / 
11 4  54 3840 1 2 q12  12  than . ^[dh@u dh] ^those ad:duced by my :honourable/ 
11 4  54 3840 1 1 q12  12  fr\iend# - -                                       / 
11 4  54 3850 1 2 a2   11  I ( . laughs) I ^don`t - [@:] !wish at the         / 
11 4  54 3850 1 1 a2   11  "!m\oment#                                         / 
11 4  54 3860 1 1 a2   11  ^to [@:] . !try a!g\ain#                           / 
11 4  54 3870 1 2 a2   11  to go ^over the !{{gr\ound} of [dhi:] "!c\auses 'of/ 
11 4  54 3870 1 1 a2   11  our} . :tr\ade de'terior/ation#                    / 
11 4  55 3880 1 1 a2   11  ^with the !EE!\C# .                                / 
11 4  55 3890 1 1 a2   11  but I`m ^very !gl\ad#                              / 
11 4  55 3900 1 1 a2   11  that my ^honourable :{fr\iend} ac!kn\/owledged#    / 
11 4  55 3910 1 2 a2   11  that this ^was in_deed a _very . "w/orrying        / 
11 4  55 3910 1 1 a2   11  d\eficit# .                                        / 
11 4  55 3920 1 1 a2   11  and I ^do _\emphasize#                             / 
11 4  55 3930 1 1 a2   11  that it`s ex^tr\emely w/orrying# .                 / 
11 4  55 3940 1 1 a2   11  and of ^course we shall be :doing our "!\/utmost#  / 
11 4  55 3950 1 2 a2   11  and in^deed the !problem would have :been -        / 
11 4  55 3950 1 1 a2   11  sub"!st\antially the s/ame#                        / 
11 4  56 3960 1 1 a2   11  al^though not . "!t\otally the s/ame#              / 
11 4  56 3970 1 1 a2   11  ^if we had 'had a free !tr\/ade 'area#             / 
11 4  56 3980 1 2 a2   15  and ^as I !often . [@:] had ^previously made - ((as/ 
11 4  56 3980 1 1 a2   15  I)) ^made . [pl] ^plain to "^plain to the H/ouse#  / 
11 4  56 3990 1 1 a2   11  on ^pr\/evious oc'casions# .                       / 
11 4  56 4000 1 2 a2   11  the ^problem 'of our :manu"!factured [@:]          / 
11 4  56 4000 1 1 a2   11  :industries` !tr\ade# .                            / 
11 4  56 4010 1 1 a2   11  [@:] "^with the :EE/C# .                           / 
11 4  56 4020 1 1 a2   11  [@:] "^w\/as one#                                  / 
11 4  57 4030 1 1 a2   11  ^which _under . "!\either /outcome# .              / 
11 4  57 4040 1 1 a2   11  ^of [dhi:] !refer/endum#                           / 
11 4  57 4050 1 2 a2   11  ^would have 'been . [@:] a :matter . 'for . 'us to / 
11 4  57 4050 1 1 a2   11  - . "!c\/oncen'trate up'on#                        / 
11 4  57 4060 1 2 a2   11  and to ^seek to _find . a :major im'provement      / 
11 4  57 4060 1 1 a2   11  r\apidly# .                                        / 
11 4  57 4070 1 1 q13  11  ^would [dhi:] 'Secretary of 'State not agr/\ee#    / 
11 4  57 4080 1 1 q13  11  that - ^neither !import con:tr\/ols#               / 
11 4  57 4090 1 1 q13  11  nor ^any other 'form of pro:t\/ectionism#          / 
11 4  58 4100 1 1 q13  11  is ^going to . im!pr\/ove '[dhi:]# .               / 
11 4  58 4110 1 2 q13  11  ^produc!tivity or ef"!f\/iciency of 'British       / 
11 4  58 4110 1 1 q13  11  'industry#                                         / 
11 4  58 4120 1 1 q13  11  ^rather the re!v\/erse# .                          / 
11 4  58 4130 1 1 q13  11  and ^will he con!f\/irm that '[dhi:]# .            / 
11 4  58 4140 1 1 q13  11  ^government 'has . !firmly 'set its !f\ace# .      / 
11 4  58 4150 1 1 q13  11  a^g\ainst 'import contr/ols#                       / 
11 4  58 4160 1 2 q13  11  as a ^means of e:liminating . 'our . :present      / 
11 4  58 4160 1 1 q13  11  'trading d\eficit#                                 / 
11 4  58 4170 1 1 q13  11  with the ^EEC c\ountries# - - -                    / 
11 4  59 4180 1 1 a2   11  well I ^d\on`t my'self {^th\ink#}#                 / 
11 4  59 4190 1 1 a2   11  that ^\import contr/ols#                           / 
11 4  59 4200 1 1 a2   11  are [dhi:] . ^right 'way to proc/\eed#             / 
11 4  59 4210 1 1 a2   11  and ^th/at of 'course is [dhi:]#                   / 
11 4  59 4220 1 1 a2   11  ^policy 'of ((the)) !g\overnment# .                / 
11 4  59 4230 1 1 a2   11  what we ^w\/ant to 'do of 'course#                 / 
11 4  59 4240 1 2 a2   12  is to im^prove the 'trade or to ^change [dhi: @:]  / 
11 4  59 4240 1 1 a2   12  the :trade !d\/eficit# .                           / 
11 4  59 4250 1 1 a2   11  ^through the en"!c\/ouragement#                    / 
11 4  59 4260 1 1 a2   11  ^of our 'own :\export# .                           / 
11 4  60 4270 1 1 a2   11  but I ^would add "!\one point#                     / 
11 4  60 4280 1 2 a2   11  which I ^think . has :got to 'be or de:serves to be/ 
11 4  60 4280 1 1 a2   11  :stated - [@:m] . !h/ere#                          / 
11 4  60 4290 1 2 a2   11  ^as [?] in!deed it was 'stated . on be:h\alf of the/ 
11 4  60 4290 1 1 a2   11  g/overnment# .                                     / 
11 4  60 4300 1 1 a2   11  [@:] at the ^Paris 'meeting of the 'O'E'C:\D# .    / 
11 4  60 4310 1 1 a2   11  that the ^oppor!t\unities#                         / 
11 4  60 4320 1 1 a2   11  that [@:] ^w/e#                                    / 
11 4  60 4330 1 1 a2   11  and ^other :countries "!h\ave# .                   / 
11 4  60 4340 1 1 a2   11  ^of ex!p\orting# - .                               / 
11 4  60 4350 1 1 a2   11  [@:] de^pend !very m\uch#                          / 
11 4  61 4360 1 1 a2   11  up^on [dhi:] !k\ind of _policies#                  / 
11 4  61 4370 1 1 a2   11  which "^\are being purs/ued# .                     / 
11 4  61 4380 1 1 a2   11  by ^major in:d\ustrial 'countries# .               / 
11 4  61 4390 1 1 a2   11  and ^really it is :very !n\/ecessary#              / 
11 4  61 4400 1 1 a2   11  that ^countries which :\are# .                     / 
11 4  61 4410 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^in "!!s\urplus#                              / 
11 4  61 4420 1 1 a2   11  in their ^balance of p/ayments# .                  / 
11 4  61 4430 1 1 a2   11  should "^n\ot be r/unning# .                       / 
11 4  61 4440 1 2 a2   11  re^strictive 'policies in [d@] re'spect of de'mand / 
11 4  61 4440 1 1 a2   11  m\anagement# .                                     / 
11 4  61 4450 1 1 q14  11  re^gardless 'of the :EE'C di:m\ension#             / 
11 4  62 4460 1 1 q14  11  ^why has it . 'been ap:parently im:p\ossible#      / 
11 4  62 4470 1 1 q14  11  for suc^cessive 'governments :over the :y\ears#    / 
11 4  62 4480 1 1 q14  11  to bring ^pressure on . ":D\enmark {^s\ay#}# .     / 
11 4  62 4490 1 2 q14  11  with ^whom we`ve 'had a . :deficit 'running _over  / 
11 4  62 4490 1 1 q14  11  !m\any 'years#                                     / 
11 4  62 4500 1 2 q14  11  ^totalling a :hundred and :fifty 'million 'pounds  / 
11 4  62 4500 1 1 q14  11  in the 'last y/\ear# - - -                         / 
11 4  62 4510 1 1 a2   11  well I ^d\on`t . {^\actually :{^th\ink#}#}#        / 
11 4  63 4520 1 2 a2   12  that our . [@:m . @: dhi] ^[ti@?] that our ^trade  / 
11 4  63 4520 1 1 a2   12  [@:] 'deficit with "!!D\/enmark#                   / 
11 4  63 4530 1 1 a2   11  ^has been !certainly 'in the last y/\ear#          / 
11 4  63 4540 1 2 a2   11  ^one which has :caused us [@:] par"!t\icular       / 
11 4  63 4540 1 1 a2   11  conc/ern# .                                        / 
11 4  63 4550 1 2 a2   12  it`s ^been a !very 'much [@: @:] ^much more        / 
11 4  63 4550 1 1 a2   12  !\even# .                                          / 
11 4  63 4560 1 2 a2   11  but I ^think [dhi:] "!p\attern of our 'trade with  / 
11 4  63 4560 1 1 a2   11  D/enmark#                                          / 
11 4  63 4570 1 1 a2   11  ^has of course "!\always b/een# .                  / 
11 4  63 4580 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^greatly "!\/influenced 'by the 'fact#        / 
11 4  64 4590 1 2 a2   11  that ^we have been 'Denmark`s . ":{m\ajor}         / 
11 4  64 4590 1 1 a2   11  :agri'cultural c\ustomer# .                        / 
11 4  64 4600 1 1 q15  11  ^would my right 'honourable fr=iend# .             / 
11 4  64 4610 1 2 q15  11  ^give us the . [e ?] :export and :import           / 
11 4  64 4610 1 1 q15  11  f\igures# .                                        / 
11 4  64 4620 1 1 q15  11  ^to the :Common M/arket#                           / 
11 4  64 4630 1 1 q15  11  and com^p=are them# .                              / 
11 4  64 4640 1 1 q15  11  with the ^rest of the w\orld# .                    / 
11 4  64 4650 1 1 q15  11  and ^doesn`t it !sh\/ow in ef'fect#                / 
11 4  64 4660 1 2 q15  11  that al^though there was 'all this pr/\omise about / 
11 4  64 4660 1 1 q15  11  _membership#                                       / 
11 4  65 4670 1 1 q15  11  ^of the m/arket#                                   / 
11 4  65 4680 1 1 q15  11  that to "^d\/ate# - .                              / 
11 4  65 4690 1 1 q15  11  to ^d\/ate# -                                      / 
11 4  65 4700 1 2 q15  11  it has ^shown that it has :benefited our :partners / 
11 4  65 4700 1 1 q15  11  in :\/Europe#                                      / 
11 4  65 4710 1 1 q15  11  ^more than it 'has !Br\itain# - -                  / 
11 4  65 4720 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 4  65 4730 1 2 a2   11  I ^won`t give [dhi: @:] pre!c\/ise 'figure at the  / 
11 4  65 4730 1 1 a2   11  'moment#                                           / 
11 4  65 4740 1 2 a2   11  because ^that would be to an:ticipate an:\other    / 
11 4  65 4740 1 1 a2   11  qu/estion#                                         / 
11 4  66 4750 1 1 a2   11  which is ^on the 'order :p\aper# .                 / 
11 4  66 4760 1 1 a2   11  ^b\ut [@:]#                                        / 
11 4  66 4770 1 2 a2   11  my ^honourable 'friend !\is of course 'quite       / 
11 4  66 4770 1 1 a2   11  corr/ect#                                          / 
11 4  66 4780 1 1 a2   11  [dhi: . @:] ^m\agnitude of our d/eficit# .         / 
11 4  66 4790 1 1 a2   11  "^w\ith the 'EE/C# .                               / 
11 4  66 4800 1 1 a2   11  ^stands 'out in !quite !sh\arp c/ontrast#          / 
11 4  66 4810 1 1 a2   11  ^to [dhi] !pr\ogress that 'we`ve been m/aking# .   / 
11 4  66 4820 1 1 a2   11  [@:] in re"^d\ucing d/eficits# .                   / 
11 4  66 4830 1 1 a2   11  to ^other 'areas of the w\orld# .                  / 
11 4  67 4840 1 1 q16  11  ^is the right 'honourable 'gentleman aw\are#       / 
11 4  67 4850 1 1 q16  11  that ^if [dhi:] - "!c\urrent ac'count# -           / 
11 4  67 4860 1 1 q16  11  ^of !this c\ountry# -                              / 
11 4  67 4870 1 1 q16  11  is ^brought into :b\alance# -                      / 
11 4  67 4880 1 1 q16  11  it will ^be im!{p\ossible for this} :c\ountry# .   / 
11 4  67 4890 1 1 q16  11  to ^borrow n/et from abr\oad# .                    / 
11 4  67 4900 1 1 q16  11  and ^does he 'view that :pr\ospect#                / 
11 4  67 4910 1 1 q16  11  with ^equan\/imity# - - -                          / 
11 4  68 4920 1 1 a2   11  ^well I !have a :f\/eeling#                        / 
11 4  68 4930 1 1 a2   11  ^that is !n\/ot a 'question#                       / 
11 4  68 4940 1 1 a2   11  di^rected !to a !tr\/ade 'minister#                / 
11 4  68 4950 1 2 a2   11  I ^think that`s 'much 'more for the :Chancellor of / 
11 4  68 4950 1 1 a2   11  the Ex:ch\equer#                                   / 
11 4  68 4960 1 1 mem  20  (laughter)                                         / 
11 4  68 4970 1 3 II   20  (following an answer to the effect that the        / 
11 4  68 4970 1 2 II   20  government is investigating the safety of tankers  / 
11 4  68 4970 1 1 II   20  in British waters)                                 / 
11 4  68 4980 1 1 q17  11  but ^is the 'minister aw/are that# .               / 
11 4  68 4990 1 1 q17  11  ^many of the s\uper_tankers# .                     / 
11 4  69 5000 1 1 q17  11  ^now 'passing "!thr\ough 'British w/aters# .       / 
11 4  69 5010 1 1 q17  11  ^do 'operate :under _flags of con!v\enience# .     / 
11 4  69 5020 1 1 q17  11  and that ^as a res\ult# .                          / 
11 4  69 5030 1 1 q17  11  they ^sometimes !t\end# .                          / 
11 4  69 5040 1 2 q17  11  to ^have in!adequate 'safety . regu'lations on     / 
11 4  69 5040 1 1 q17  11  d\eck# .                                           / 
11 4  69 5050 1 2 q17  11  as ^well as !poorly 'qualified :{\officers} 'on the/ 
11 4  69 5050 1 1 q17  11  !br\idge# - -                                      / 
11 4  69 5060 1 2 q17  11  now in ^view of the . e!normous en'viron'mental    / 
11 4  69 5060 1 1 q17  11  :damage which . !c\ould 'happen# .                 / 
11 4  70 5070 1 3 q17  11  if ^[ei] . !supertanker col:lision oc"!curred [@k] / 
11 4  70 5070 1 2 q17  11  in the con:gested 'waters of the 'Channel or the   / 
11 4  70 5070 1 1 q17  11  'North :S\ea# -                                    / 
11 4  70 5080 1 1 q17  11  ^will the 'minister . :now "!\urgently#            / 
11 4  70 5090 1 2 q17  11  ^seek to _tighten _up on "!\all the 'safety        / 
11 4  70 5090 1 1 q17  11  'regul/ations# .                                   / 
11 4  70 5100 1 1 q17  11  which are ^r/elevant# .                            / 
11 4  70 5110 1 1 q17  11  and ^would he !\/also con'sider# .                 / 
11 4  70 5120 1 1 q17  11  ^following the Ca"!n\adian ex/ample# .             / 
11 4  71 5130 1 2 q17  11  of es^tablishing a !{s\ystem} . of "!sh\ip 'traffic/ 
11 4  71 5130 1 1 q17  11  contr/ol# .                                        / 
11 4  71 5140 1 2 q17  11  ^comparable to the !\/air 'traffic con'trol        / 
11 4  71 5140 1 1 q17  11  pro'cedures#                                       / 
11 4  71 5150 1 2 q17  11  which have ^been in oper'ation for 'many           / 
11 4  71 5150 1 1 q17  11  y\ears# - - -                                      / 
11 4  71 5160 1 3 a1   11  ( . coughs) so ^far as [dhi: @:] :last . 'part of  / 
11 4  71 5160 1 2 a1   11  the 'honourable 'gentleman`s 'question is          / 
11 4  71 5160 1 1 a1   11  conc/erned# .                                      / 
11 4  71 5170 1 1 a1   11  we are ^certainly /anxious#                        / 
11 4  71 5180 1 1 a1   11  to con^sider !\any con'structive id/eas#           / 
11 4  72 5190 1 1 a1   11  ^whereso:ever they 'may a!r\ise# -                 / 
11 4  72 5200 1 2 a1   11  [@:m] - so ^far as . 'flags of con:v\enience are   / 
11 4  72 5200 1 1 a1   11  conc/erned# .                                      / 
11 4  72 5210 1 1 a1   11  [@:m] ( . coughs) ^my dep/artment#                 / 
11 4  72 5220 1 1 a1   11  ^has st/ated#                                      / 
11 4  72 5230 1 1 a1   11  on a ^number of occ/asions#                        / 
11 4  72 5240 1 1 a1   11  that ^what it is :really con:c\/erned a'bout# .    / 
11 4  72 5250 1 1 a1   11  [@:m] in ^this resp/ect#                           / 
11 4  72 5260 1 1 a1   11  is ^sub'standard !sh\ips# -                        / 
11 4  72 5270 1 1 a1   11  ^and [i] in f/act#                                 / 
11 4  72 5280 1 1 a1   11  an in^itiative has 'recently been t\aken#          / 
11 4  73 5290 1 1 a1   11  ^at [@:] . /IMCO#                                  / 
11 4  73 5300 1 1 a1   11  in ^that re!sp\ect#                                / 
11 4  73 5310 1 1 a1   11  as the ^honourable :gentleman . 'may be aw/are# .  / 
11 4  73 5320 1 1 a1   11  in ^order to en:{\able us to} i!d\entify# -        / 
11 4  73 5330 1 1 a1   11  [@:] ^sub'standard sh/ips# .                       / 
11 4  73 5340 1 1 a1   11  ^and to _take ef!fective /action#                  / 
11 4  73 5350 1 1 a1   11  a^gainst th/ose which 'are id\enti'fied# -         / 
11 4  73 5360 1 2 a1   11  [@:m] ^c\ertainly we are {con^c\erned a'bout       / 
11 4  73 5360 1 1 a1   11  the#}# .                                           / 
11 4  73 5370 1 2 a1   11  a^bout the [@:] !adequacy of the :training of      / 
11 4  73 5370 1 1 a1   11  _those who !s\erve on 'board . t/ankers#           / 
11 4  74 5380 1 2 a1   11  and in^deed _any !\other 'ships for 'that          / 
11 4  74 5380 1 1 a1   11  m/atter# -                                         / 
11 4  74 5390 1 1 a1   11  ^=and [@:m]# .                                     / 
11 4  74 5400 1 1 a1   11  so ^far as the :ships them":s\elves are con_cerned#/ 
11 4  74 5410 1 1 a1   11  per^haps I 'ought to 'add :th\is# -                / 
11 4  74 5420 1 1 a1   11  that [@:] ^my de'partment . es:t\ablished# .       / 
11 4  74 5430 1 1 a1   11  [@] a ^l\ittle 'time ag/o#                         / 
11 4  74 5440 1 1 a1   11  a "^st\udy 'group#                                 / 
11 4  74 5450 1 1 a1   11  ^which was . [@] de!signed to . con:s\ider# -      / 
11 4  74 5460 1 1 a1   11  [@:] ^questions 'of . :tanker con:str/uction# .    / 
11 4  75 5470 1 1 a1   11  [@] ^and [@:] the 'oper!\ation of t/ankers# -      / 
11 4  75 5480 1 3 a1   12  [@:m] which ^might [? . @:] which ^might in 'fact  / 
11 4  75 5480 1 2 a1   12  [@:] con"!{tr\ibute to} [@:m] :h\azardous .        / 
11 4  75 5480 1 1 a1   12  situ/ations# -                                     / 
11 4  75 5490 1 1 a1   11  and and they ^are in f\act#                        / 
11 4  75 5500 1 1 a1   11  con^s\idering in th/at re'spect#                   / 
11 4  75 5510 1 1 a1   11  ^questions of !hull str/ength# .                   / 
11 4  75 5520 1 1 a1   11  ^crew tr\/aining#                                  / 
11 4  75 5530 1 1 a1   11  and ^oper'ational m\ethods# .                      / 
11 4  76 5540 1 2 q18  11  [gr] ^grateful for the :honourable [m] :member`s - / 
11 4  76 5540 1 1 q18  11  re!pl\/y to that#                                  / 
11 4  76 5550 1 2 q18  11  [@:] it`s ^clear that he`s _gone into it in _great / 
11 4  76 5550 1 1 q18  11  !d\etail# .                                        / 
11 4  76 5560 1 1 q18  11  what "^{I`m not [kl\/ait]} :cl\/ear about 'is# .   / 
11 4  76 5570 1 1 q18  11  ^s\urely#                                          / 
11 4  76 5580 1 1 q18  11  ^our 'juris:d\iction#                              / 
11 4  76 5590 1 1 q18  11  ^c\an only /operate# .                             / 
11 4  76 5600 1 2 q18  12  with^in terri_torial _waters "_as the _law         / 
11 4  76 5600 1 1 q18  12  ^inter_national _law [?] ex!ists at the m\oment#   / 
11 4  76 5610 1 1 q18  11  and ^is he 'doing 'anything about :th\at point# -  / 
11 4  77 5620 1 1 a1   11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 4  77 5630 1 1 a1   11  [dhi] this ^\is a m/atter _which# .                / 
11 4  77 5640 1 1 a1   11  ^{h\as} . !c\/ertainly 'given us# .                / 
11 4  77 5650 1 1 a1   11  a ^gr\/eat 'deal of con"c\ern# .                   / 
11 4  77 5660 1 1 a1   11  ^=and [@]#                                         / 
11 4  77 5670 1 1 a1   11  ^I have been 'studying this 'with my \officials# - / 
11 4  77 5680 1 2 a1   12  [@:m] . I I [dh@] there ^are . there ^are !c\ertain/ 
11 4  77 5680 1 1 a1   12  in'itiatives 'which we have t/aken#                / 
11 4  77 5690 1 1 a1   11  but I . ^think it 'would be :premat\ure#           / 
11 4  78 5700 1 1 a1   11  at ^th\is st/age# .                                / 
11 4  78 5710 1 1 a1   11  to dis^cuss . [@:m] :h\ow in {^f\act#}#            / 
11 4  78 5720 1 2 a1   11  we will ^seek to en!f\orce . [@] our               / 
11 4  78 5720 1 1 a1   11  'jurisd/iction# .                                  / 
11 4  78 5730 1 1 a1   11  [@:m . @: ? @:] it ^may 'have to b/e#              / 
11 4  78 5740 1 1 a1   11  ^by some !v\oluntary arr/angements#                / 
11 4  78 5750 1 1 a1   11  but I ^think it would :n\/ot be 'right for 'me#    / 
11 4  78 5760 1 1 a1   11  to ^go into 'any :detail at 'this st\age# .        / 
11 4  78 5770 1 2 II   20  (following question and answer on the affairs of   / 
11 4  78 5770 1 1 II   20  David Bainbridge Ltd)                              / 
11 4  79 5780 1 2 q19  11  ^is my 'honourable :friend a:w\are (coughs . ) _Mr / 
11 4  79 5780 1 1 q19  11  _Speaker#                                          / 
11 4  79 5790 1 2 q19  11  that ^this 'company 'which . [@:m] a:mongst !\other/ 
11 4  79 5790 1 1 q19  11  'features#                                         / 
11 4  79 5800 1 1 q19  11  owes ^thousands of :{p\ounds} in 'un_paid !w\/ages#/ 
11 4  79 5810 1 1 q19  11  ^to its !w\/orkers# -                              / 
11 4  79 5820 1 1 q19  11  [@:] ^recently 'changed :h\/ands#                  / 
11 4  79 5830 1 1 q19  11  and ^no one 'seems to kn/ow#                       / 
11 4  79 5840 1 2 q19  11  ^just [?]_who [?]_is the _present . [@:] _legal    / 
11 4  79 5840 1 1 q19  11  !\owner#                                           / 
11 4  80 5850 1 2 q19  11  [@:] ^will he [@] 'look into into !th\ose          / 
11 4  80 5850 1 1 q19  11  'matters# - - -                                    / 
11 4  80 5860 1 1 a1   11  [@:] (coughs . ) ^if my 'honourable :fr\iend# .    / 
11 4  80 5870 1 1 a1   11  ^h\as any#                                         / 
11 4  80 5880 1 1 a1   11  [@:m] spe"^c\ific 'evidence#                       / 
11 4  80 5890 1 1 a1   11  to ^which he would . !w\ish to 'draw my att/ention#/ 
11 4  80 5900 1 1 a1   11  ^I would be !very 'happy 'if he would :d\/o so# -  / 
11 4  80 5910 1 1 a1   11  ^either !\orally or by 'corresp/ondence# .         / 
11 4  80 5920 1 1 a1   11  and I will ^look into 'any 'alle"g/ations#         / 
11 4  81 5930 1 1 a1   11  ^which might !j\/ustify# .                         / 
11 4  81 5940 1 1 a1   11  the ^s\ort of enqu/iry#                            / 
11 4  81 5950 1 1 a1   11  which ^he is 'urging 'me to t\ake#                 / 
11 4  81 5960 1 4 II   20  (following answer to the effect that the trade     / 
11 4  81 5960 1 3 II   20  secretary does not plan to meet his French         / 
11 4  81 5960 1 2 II   20  counterpart to discuss future collaboration on     / 
11 4  81 5960 1 1 II   20  Concorde)                                          / 
11 4  81 5970 1 1 q20  11  but ^is the . :minister a:w\are that#              / 
11 4  81 5980 1 2 q20  11  ^Concorde :has . some !powerful . 'and             / 
11 4  81 5980 1 1 q20  11  un:scrupulous :\enemies#                           / 
11 4  82 5990 1 1 q20  11  par^ticularly 'in the 'United :St\ates# -          / 
11 4  82 6000 1 1 q20  12  and ^is he . ((and)) ^would he not agr\ee that#    / 
11 4  82 6010 1 1 q20  11  ^recent . con!gressional !h\/earings# -            / 
11 4  82 6020 1 3 q20  11  ^have 'shown the !lengths to which :some .         / 
11 4  82 6020 1 2 q20  11  A!{m\erican 'aircraft 'manu'facturers} will        / 
11 4  82 6020 1 1 q20  11  ":g\/o# .                                          / 
11 4  82 6030 1 2 q20  11  [@:] to pro^mote and de:fend the 'rights of "!their/ 
11 4  82 6030 1 1 q20  11  !c\ompanies# .                                     / 
11 4  82 6040 1 2 q20  11  ^does he ac'cept that :Britain and 'France have an / 
11 4  82 6040 1 1 q20  11  !over:r\iding# .                                   / 
11 4  83 6050 1 1 q20  11  ^economic "!and po:litical :\interest# .           / 
11 4  83 6060 1 1 q20  11  ^\/in 'Concorde# .                                 / 
11 4  83 6070 1 1 q20  11  and on "^th\at 'basis# .                           / 
11 4  83 6080 1 1 q20  11  ^would he _at !l\east# .                           / 
11 4  83 6090 1 1 q20  11  as^s\ure the 'House# .                             / 
11 4  83 6100 1 1 q20  11  that ^[dhi:] sup!port for the :pr\oject# .         / 
11 4  83 6110 1 3 q20  11  ^previously 'mani'fested 'by his :right honourable / 
11 4  83 6110 1 2 q20  11  'friend the _present _Secretary of _State for      / 
11 4  83 6110 1 1 q20  11  ":\energy# -                                       / 
11 4  83 6120 1 1 q20  11  which was ^always 'self :[evid @? @?] !\/evident# ./ 
11 4  84 6130 1 1 q20  11  is ^still av\ailable# .                            / 
11 4  84 6140 1 1 q20  11  ^and as !str\/ongly#                               / 
11 4  84 6150 1 1 q20  11  ^from Her 'Majesty`s g/overnment# .                / 
11 4  84 6160 1 2 q20  11  by ^those who 'now have re'sponsi:b\ility for      / 
11 4  84 6160 1 1 q20  11  'Concorde# - - -                                   / 
11 4  84 6170 1 1 a1   11  (coughs) there`s ^abso'lutely :no r\eason# .       / 
11 4  84 6180 1 1 a1   11  to ^qu\estion# -                                   / 
11 4  84 6190 1 1 a1   11  the sup^p/ort# .                                   / 
11 4  84 6200 1 1 a1   11  [@:] which ^my dep/artment#                        / 
11 4  84 6210 1 1 a1   11  and the de^partment of [e? o?] of /industry#       / 
11 4  85 6220 1 1 a1   11  ^under its !present 'Secretary of :St/ate# .       / 
11 4  85 6230 1 1 a1   11  ^has . !for this !!pr\oject#                       / 
11 4  85 6240 1 2 a1   11  and in^deed I`ve :made this !cl\ear to the         / 
11 4  85 6240 1 1 a1   11  'honourable g/entleman# .                          / 
11 4  85 6250 1 2 a1   12  in an ad^journment [?] in a de^bate which 'he [@:] / 
11 4  85 6250 1 1 a1   12  in'iti'ated some 'little 'time ag\o# -             / 
11 4  85 6260 1 1 a1   11  [@:m] - more"^\over# -                             / 
11 4  85 6270 1 2 a1   11  ^[dhi: @:] !represen!tation 'of :both ((the))      / 
11 4  85 6270 1 1 a1   11  !British and [@:] !Fr\ench# .                      / 
11 4  86 6280 1 1 a1   11  [@:] ^g/overnments#                                / 
11 4  86 6290 1 1 a1   11  and ^/industries#                                  / 
11 4  86 6300 1 1 a1   11  ^at the 'hearings :\in the U'nited St/ates# -      / 
11 4  86 6310 1 1 a1   11  [@:m] - ^was . !v\ery 'adequate ind/eed# -         / 
11 4  86 6320 1 2 a1   11  ^and [@:] the !represen'tations which were :made on/ 
11 4  86 6320 1 1 a1   11  be!h\alf of those g/overnments# -                  / 
11 4  86 6330 1 1 a1   12  [@:m] ^were were ^very !strong in!d\eed# .         / 
11 4  86 6340 1 1 a1   11  ^b=ut# .                                           / 
11 4  86 6350 1 1 a1   11  I ^do not !think that it would be :h\elpful# -     / 
11 4  86 6360 1 1 a1   11  [@:] to to en^g/age#                               / 
11 4  87 6370 1 1 a1   12  in ^sort of in "^n\ame 'calling#                   / 
11 4  87 6380 1 1 a1   11  [@] a^gainst the op":p\onents# -                   / 
11 4  87 6390 1 1 a1   11  [o] ^of the 'Concorde pr\oject# .                  / 
11 4  87 6400 1 1 a1   11  ^and [@:] !c\ertainly#                             / 
11 4  87 6410 1 1 a1   11  neither ^/I#                                       / 
11 4  87 6420 1 1 a1   11  nor my ^right 'honourable :fr\/iend# .             / 
11 4  87 6430 1 2 a1   11  in^tend to :follow the 'honourable 'gentleman in   / 
11 4  87 6430 1 1 a1   11  'that reg\ard# .                                   / 
11 4  87 6440 1 1 q21  11  ^Mr Sp\eaker#                                      / 
11 4  87 6450 1 1 q21  11  ^will my 'honourable 'friend ac:c\ept#             / 
11 4  87 6460 1 1 q21  11  that ^many 'people . "!\in this H/ouse#            / 
11 4  88 6470 1 2 q21  11  ^think that [@:] :Concorde 'is . :going to 'be a   / 
11 4  88 6470 1 1 q21  11  gi:gantic fi'nancial di!s\aster# -                 / 
11 4  88 6480 1 2 q21  11  ^will he en'sure that in 'any :cuts in 'public     / 
11 4  88 6480 1 1 q21  11  exp\enditure# .                                    / 
11 4  88 6490 1 3 q21  11  ^edu'cation ((and)) :social 'services 'take        / 
11 4  88 6490 1 2 q21  11  pri!ority over 'this [@:] . :huge !pit into which  / 
11 4  88 6490 1 1 q21  11  'money is 'being :p\/oured# .                      / 
11 4  88 6500 1 2 q21  11  ^so 'that [@: 'dhi:] :manu'facturing ca:pacity at  / 
11 4  88 6500 1 1 q21  11  'present de!v\oted to C/oncorde# .                 / 
11 4  89 6510 1 2 q21  11  ^can be re:leased for 'something 'more . :socially / 
11 4  89 6510 1 1 q21  11  !\useful# - - -                                    / 
11 4  89 6520 1 1 a1   11  I ^don`t acc\ept#                                  / 
11 4  89 6530 1 2 a1   11  the ^premise up'on 'which my :honourable 'friend . / 
11 4  89 6530 1 1 a1   11  [@:] !b\ases 'his qu/estion# .                     / 
11 4  89 6540 1 1 a1   11  ((I)) ^do not reg\/ard# .                          / 
11 4  89 6550 1 1 a1   11  ^this . !very re!{m\arkable} . :\/aircraft#        / 
11 4  89 6560 1 2 a1   11  and [iksp . ae? @:] . which in^volves . [@:m]      / 
11 4  89 6560 1 1 a1   11  !great techno'logical ad:v\/ance# .                / 
11 4  90 6570 1 1 a1   11  as ^being . a di!s\aster# -                        / 
11 4  90 6580 1 2 a1   12  [@:m] (coughs . ) . so ^far as 'any :questions . so/ 
11 4  90 6580 1 1 a1   12  ^far as any :questions of !c\uts are conc/erned# . / 
11 4  90 6590 1 1 a1   11  ^these of 'course are :not a 'matter for m\e# -    / 
11 4  90 6600 1 1 q22  11  ^is the :honourable 'gentleman a:w\are that# .     / 
11 4  90 6610 1 2 q22  11  "^many [?] of [?] of [dhi] ":two and a half        / 
11 4  90 6610 1 1 q22  11  :million :p\eople#                                 / 
11 4  91 6620 1 1 q22  11  ^living within :earshot of :Heathrow !\/Airport#   / 
11 4  91 6630 1 1 q22  11  would ^heave a !sigh of rel\ief# .                 / 
11 4  91 6640 1 2 q22  11  if ^they were to 'hear that the :Concorde .        / 
11 4  91 6640 1 1 q22  11  :project had :fallen thr\ough#                     / 
11 4  91 6650 1 1 q22  11  be^cause of the ap!palling n\oise#                 / 
11 4  91 6660 1 1 q22  11  ((syll)) it`s ex^pected to m\ake# .                / 
11 4  91 6670 1 1 q22  11  ^will he ens\ure#                                  / 
11 4  91 6680 1 1 q22  11  that . ^Concorde is !not all\owed to fl/y#         / 
11 4  91 6690 1 1 q22  11  "^in and \out of H/eathrow# .                      / 
11 4  92 6700 1 1 q22  11  un^til he is :s\/atisfied# .                       / 
11 4  92 6710 1 1 q22  11  that its ^n\/oise 'levels#                         / 
11 4  92 6720 1 1 q22  11  are ^going to be ac!c\/eptable#                    / 
11 4  92 6730 1 1 q22  11  to the ^people of L\ondon# - -                     / 
11 4  92 6740 1 1 a1   11  (coughs) I`m [s] ^s\orry#                          / 
11 4  92 6750 1 1 a1   11  that the ^honourable g\entleman# .                 / 
11 4  92 6760 1 1 a1   11  should have "^sought to ex\aggerate#               / 
11 4  92 6770 1 2 a1   11  the ^situ'ation as :far as 'noise is               / 
11 4  92 6770 1 1 a1   11  con:c\/erned# .                                    / 
11 4  92 6780 1 1 a1   11  ^he knows :p\erfectly w/ell# .                     / 
11 4  93 6790 1 1 a1   11  [@] that [@:] in ^f\act# .                         / 
11 4  93 6800 1 1 a1   11  [@:] it ^constitutes !no gr\eater . n/oise# -      / 
11 4  93 6810 1 1 a1   11  [@:] ^noise n/uisance#                             / 
11 4  93 6820 1 1 a1   11  ^than the ex:isting . "!Boeing :seven [@u] s/even# / 
11 4  93 6830 1 1 a1   11  and ^various 'other \/aircraft# .                  / 
11 4  93 6840 1 1 a1   11  ^and - he "!w\ill have an 'opport/unity#           / 
11 4  93 6850 1 1 a1   11  ^as in'deed will /others# .                        / 
11 4  93 6860 1 1 a1   11  to ^test [dhi:] ve!r\acity of 'that cl/aim# .      / 
11 4  93 6870 1 2 a1   11  [@:] ^when the en!d\/urance 'flying be'gins in     / 
11 4  93 6870 1 1 a1   11  J\uly# .                                           / 
11 4  94 6880 1 1 q23  11  ^does the 'Secretary of :St\ate# .                 / 
11 4  94 6890 1 1 q23  11  en^visage . a sub:stantial im"!pr\ovement# -       / 
11 4  94 6900 1 1 q23  11  ^in the :balance of tr/ade#                        / 
11 4  94 6910 1 1 q23  11  be^tween the U'nited K\ingdom# .                   / 
11 4  94 6920 1 1 q23  11  and the ^other 'members of the com:m\unity#        / 
11 4  94 6930 1 1 q23  11  ^over the 'next 'five y/ears# .                    / 
11 4  94 6940 1 1 q23  11  and ^will he conf\irm# .                           / 
11 4  94 6950 1 2 q23  11  ^that . '[dhi:] . !question of !import             / 
11 4  94 6950 1 1 q23  11  con:tr\ols# .                                      / 
11 4  94 6960 1 2 q23  11  is "^neither the policy of Her 'Majesty`s          / 
11 4  94 6960 1 1 q23  11  g/overnment# .                                     / 
11 4  95 6970 1 1 q23  11  "^nor would it ac:c\ord#                           / 
11 4  95 6980 1 1 q23  11  with the ^policy of the 'EE\/C# -                  / 
11 4  95 6990 1 1 a2   11  ^\ah# .                                            / 
11 4  95 7000 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 4  95 7010 1 1 a2   11  ^y\es# .                                           / 
11 4  95 7020 1 2 a2   11  I have ^dealt with [dhi] 'question of 'import      / 
11 4  95 7020 1 1 a2   11  contr\/ols#                                        / 
11 4  95 7030 1 1 a2   12  ^and [@:] in an ^earlier !qu\estion# -             / 
11 4  95 7040 1 2 a2   11  ^and as [dhi:] :honourable :gentleman 'rightly     / 
11 4  95 7040 1 1 a2   11  !s/ays# .                                          / 
11 4  95 7050 1 1 a2   11  ^import con!tr/ols#                                / 
11 4  95 7060 1 1 a2   11  are - [@] ex^tremely !d/ifficult# .                / 
11 4  96 7070 1 1 a2   11  with^in the :context of the 'EEC !tr\eaty# .       / 
11 4  96 7080 1 2 a2   12  but . ^as for [dhi:] - ^as for the . !\/other      / 
11 4  96 7080 1 1 a2   12  'questions#                                        / 
11 4  96 7090 1 1 a2   11  I ^really 'cannot an:t\icipate# .                  / 
11 4  96 7100 1 2 a2   11  [@:] ^[dhi: @] . "!future . [@:] ":c\ourse of      / 
11 4  96 7100 1 1 a2   11  'Britain`s _trade#                                 / 
11 4  96 7110 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ith the 'EE/C# .                                / 
11 4  96 7120 1 1 a2   11  as ^far as !\I`m conc/erned#                       / 
11 4  96 7130 1 1 a2   11  [dhi:] ^present situ/ation#                        / 
11 4  96 7140 1 2 a2   11  is ^really a :very . [@:m] :unsatis!factory one    / 
11 4  96 7140 1 1 a2   11  in:d/eed# .                                        / 
11 4  96 7150 1 1 a2   11  and ^British f/irms# .                             / 
11 4  97 7160 1 1 a2   11  must ^make [?] . an "!\/all-out 'effort# .         / 
11 4  97 7170 1 2 a2   11  to im^prove their 'trade 'balance !w\ith the       / 
11 4  97 7170 1 1 a2   11  'EE'C# .                                           / 
11 4  97 7180 1 2 q24  11  de^spite [dhi:] :difficulties that ex:ist in       / 
11 4  97 7180 1 1 q24  11  re:lation to the 'EEC !tr\/eaty# .                 / 
11 4  97 7190 1 1 q24  11  ^is it 'not quite :cl\ear#                         / 
11 4  97 7200 1 1 q24  11  that the ^time has !c\ome# .                       / 
11 4  97 7210 1 2 q24  11  when the ^government 'must ne":{g\otiate} with the / 
11 4  97 7210 1 1 q24  11  !EEC "!c\/ountries# .                              / 
11 4  97 7220 1 2 q24  11  in ^order to 'get a :system of se:lective 'import  / 
11 4  97 7220 1 1 q24  11  con!tr\ols# .                                      / 
11 4  98 7230 1 1 q24  11  now ^this is !much (coughs . ) pre"!f\/erable# .   / 
11 4  98 7240 1 1 q24  11  to a ^growing 'level of 'unem!pl\oyment#           / 
11 4  98 7250 1 1 q24  11  in ^\/industries which are#                        / 
11 4  98 7260 1 1 q24  11  ^badly af!f\/ected# .                              / 
11 4  98 7270 1 1 q24  11  by ^the present 'situ/ation#                       / 
11 4  98 7280 1 1 q24  11  as ^far as [@:] :imports are con!c\erned# .        / 
11 4  98 7290 1 1 q24  11  and ^is it not !cl\ear that#                       / 
11 4  98 7300 1 2 q24  11  the ^government will "!h\/ave to 'think a'gain     / 
11 4  98 7300 1 1 q24  11  about 'this# .                                     / 
11 4  99 7310 1 1 q24  11  ^whether they !l\/ike it or 'not#                  / 
11 4  99 7320 1 1 q24  11  and de"^sp\/ite the 'vote that`s 'taken 'place# .  / 
11 4  99 7330 1 1 q24  11  ^on the _question of the _Common !M\arket# - .     / 
11 4  99 7340 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell# .                                          / 
11 4  99 7350 1 1 a2   11  [u] I ^thought the !\/earlier 'questions 'were#    / 
11 4  99 7360 1 2 a2   11  ^dealing with [dhi:] . :question of !\/import      / 
11 4  99 7360 1 1 a2   11  con'trols a'cross the b\oard and#                  / 
11 4  99 7370 1 1 a2   11  [m] ^what I said !pr\/eviously of course# .        / 
11 4 100 7380 1 1 a2   11  [@:m @: @] . ap^pl\ies# .                          / 
11 4 100 7390 1 3 a2   11  [@:] but [@:] in ^view of 'what my :honourable     / 
11 4 100 7390 1 2 a2   11  'friend said a'bout se"!l\/ective [@] 'import      / 
11 4 100 7390 1 1 a2   11  con'trols# .                                       / 
11 4 100 7400 1 1 a2   11  there ^\/is of 'course pro'vision# .               / 
11 4 100 7410 1 2 a2   11  ^both [@:] with:in [dhi: @:] :treaty of            / 
11 4 100 7410 1 1 a2   11  ac:c\ession#                                       / 
11 4 100 7420 1 1 a2   11  ^and in_deed _under !G \A T T# .                   / 
11 4 100 7430 1 2 a2   11  ^for . "!{c\ertain} [@:] :\uses of /import         / 
11 4 100 7430 1 1 a2   11  con'trols# .                                       / 
11 4 100 7440 1 1 a2   11  in re^lation to par!ticular 'market dis:t/urbances#/ 
11 4 101 7450 1 1 a2   11  ^and in par'ticular . 'regional ":pr\/oblems# .    / 
11 4 101 7460 1 2 a2   11  and of ^course . [@:] we are pre:pared to          / 
11 4 101 7460 1 1 a2   11  con!s\ider# .                                      / 
11 4 101 7470 1 1 a2   11  par^ticular [@] 'cases . 'on their :m\erits# - .   / 
11 4 101 7480 1 1 q25  11  ^((now)) that [dhi:] :refer'endum is :\over#       / 
11 4 101 7490 1 1 q25  11  ^will the 'minister ad:m\it that#                  / 
11 4 101 7500 1 1 q25  11  the ^trade 'gap with :\Europe#                     / 
11 4 102 7510 1 1 q25  11  will ^not im:pr\/ove#                              / 
11 4 102 7520 1 2 q25  11  un^til the :government !starts to do 'something    / 
11 4 102 7520 1 1 q25  11  a'bout in:fl\/ation# .                             / 
11 4 102 7530 1 2 q25  11  al^lows the 'country to :live with'in its          / 
11 4 102 7530 1 1 q25  11  :m\/eans# .                                        / 
11 4 102 7540 1 2 q25  11  ^and !stops the :import of !goods which the        / 
11 4 102 7540 1 1 q25  11  'country :cannot [inf] af:f\/ord#                  / 
11 4 102 7550 1 1 q25  11  by ^curbing in"!fl\ation#                          / 
11 4 102 7560 1 2 q25  11  ^rather than :trying to _make ex_cuses in 'other   / 
11 4 102 7560 1 1 q25  11  di:r\ections# - - -                                / 
11 4 103 7570 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 4 103 7580 1 1 a2   11  I`m ^quite c\ertain#                               / 
11 4 103 7590 1 2 a2   12  that ^[dhi: @:m] - - that in^flation 'is [ei] .    / 
11 4 103 7590 1 1 a2   12  !v\ery 'serious pr/oblem#                          / 
11 4 103 7600 1 1 a2   11  ^for . the !whole !c\/ountry#                      / 
11 4 103 7610 1 2 a2   12  and in^deed the !whole of _our . the ^whole of 'our/ 
11 4 103 7610 1 1 a2   12  . :export tr=ade#                                  / 
11 4 103 7620 1 2 a2   11  re^gardless of the !!m\/arkets to 'which they 'are / 
11 4 103 7620 1 1 a2   11  dir\ected# .                                       / 
11 4 103 7630 1 1 a2   11  but I would ^also point \out#                      / 
11 4 103 7640 1 1 a2   11  to the ^honourable g\entleman#                     / 
11 4 103 7650 1 2 a2   11  in ^case he 'gets all 'carried a"w\ay with the     / 
11 4 103 7650 1 1 a2   11  p/oint# .                                          / 
11 4 104 7660 1 1 a2   11  that . we ^h\ave 'managed#                         / 
11 4 104 7670 1 1 a2   11  [ei] ^very sub"!stantial im:pr\ovement#            / 
11 4 104 7680 1 1 a2   11  "^\in . our tr/ade# .                              / 
11 4 104 7690 1 1 a2   11  with ^virtually !all other m\arkets#               / 
11 4 104 7700 1 2 a2   11  and ^therefore some :very !sp\ecial 'effort 'is    / 
11 4 104 7700 1 1 a2   11  requ/ired#                                         / 
11 4 104 7710 1 1 a2   11  and par^t\icularly I 'think by 'British /industry# / 
11 4 104 7720 1 1 a2   11  to ^d\/eal 'with# .                                / 
11 4 104 7730 1 1 a2   11  [@: dhi] ^question of the !tr\/ade 'deficit# .     / 
11 4 105 7740 1 1 a2   11  that ^now ex'ists with the 'EE\C# .                / 
11 4 105 7750 1 1 q26  11  ^will the 'Secretary of 'State ackn/\owledge 'the# / 
11 4 105 7760 1 1 q26  11  im^portant r=ole#                                  / 
11 4 105 7770 1 2 q26  11  that [dhi] de^velopment corpor'ation for W/ales has/ 
11 4 105 7770 1 1 q26  11  pl\ayed#                                           / 
11 4 105 7780 1 1 q26  11  ^in . dev/\eloping 'exports#                       / 
11 4 105 7790 1 1 q26  11  ^fr\om 'Wales#                                     / 
11 4 105 7800 1 1 q26  11  ^to EEC :c\/ountries# .                            / 
11 4 105 7810 1 2 q26  11  and ^will he con'sider in con:junction with the    / 
11 4 105 7810 1 1 q26  11  'Chancellor of the Exch\/equer# .                  / 
11 4 106 7820 1 1 q26  11  ex^tending the :\aid#                              / 
11 4 106 7830 1 1 q26  11  ^f\or the de'velopment 'corpor/ation#              / 
11 4 106 7840 1 1 q26  11  in ^order to . ex_tend !th\/eir 'number#           / 
11 4 106 7850 1 1 q26  11  of ^full-time 'repres\entatives#                   / 
11 4 106 7860 1 1 q26  11  ^in the 'countries :of the 'EE\C# - - -            / 
11 4 106 7870 1 1 a2   11  well I`m ^willing to con:sider /\any m/easure#     / 
11 4 106 7880 1 1 a2   11  ^which would _be of as!s\/istance#                 / 
11 4 106 7890 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^t\/o ex'porters# .                           / 
11 4 106 7900 1 1 a2   11  ^in "!\any p/art of 'the U'nited {^K/ingdom#}# .   / 
11 4 107 7910 1 1 a2   11  [@:] in re^lation to the 'EEC m\arket#             / 
11 4 107 7920 1 1 a2   11  and ^I will certainly con!s\ider this# .           / 
11 4 107 7930 1 1 q27  11  ^would my 'right honourable :friend conf\irm that# / 
11 4 107 7940 1 2 q27  11  ^he`s re'sponsible for 'national 'policy on :import/ 
11 4 107 7940 1 1 q27  11  _substi"!t\ution# -                                / 
11 4 107 7950 1 1 q27  11  and ^does he have :any 'policy or :pl\an#          / 
11 4 107 7960 1 2 q27  11  for as^sisting the de:{v\elopment} of spe:cific    / 
11 4 107 7960 1 1 q27  11  'British !\industries# .                           / 
11 4 108 7970 1 1 q27  11  ^such as "!f\/ootwear# -                           / 
11 4 108 7980 1 1 q27  11  which ^have the ca"!p\acity to pro'duce g/oods#    / 
11 4 108 7990 1 2 q27  11  which ^are im!ported in in!creasing                / 
11 4 108 7990 1 1 q27  11  :qu\/antities# .                                   / 
11 4 108 8000 1 1 q27  11  ^from !Common 'Market :c\ountries# - - -           / 
11 4 108 8010 1 1 a2   11  ^well of !c\ourse#                                 / 
11 4 108 8020 1 1 a2   11  I am ^\equally conc/erned#                         / 
11 4 108 8030 1 2 a2   11  be^cause it`s the !{\other 'side of [dhi:]} .      / 
11 4 108 8030 1 1 a2   11  :c\oin of our 'balance of tr/ade# .                / 
11 4 109 8040 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^with [@:m] . _import . 'substi!!t\ution# .   / 
11 4 109 8050 1 2 a2   11  [@:] and ^that [@:] ap:plies not :only to          / 
11 4 109 8050 1 1 a2   11  ex!\/isting 'British 'industries#                  / 
11 4 109 8060 1 2 a2   11  but per^haps to . the :possibilities of            / 
11 4 109 8060 1 1 a2   11  de:v/\eloping 'new 'British 'industries# .         / 
11 4 109 8070 1 1 a2   11  and wher^\ever p/ossible# .                        / 
11 4 109 8080 1 1 a2   11  [@:] we ^shall of _course . [@:] en!c\ourage#      / 
11 4 109 8090 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^import 'substit/ution# .                     / 
11 4 109 8100 1 1 a2   11  as ^w\/ell as# .                                   / 
11 4 109 8110 1 1 a2   11  [@:] ^\giving . [@: @: @:] :/aid#                  / 
11 4 110 8120 1 1 a2   11  and con^t\inuing to give /aid#                     / 
11 4 110 8130 1 1 a2   11  to our ^export dr\ive# .                           / 
11 4 110 8140 1 1 q28  11  ^is [dhi:] right 'honourable :gentleman a!w\are# . / 
11 4 110 8150 1 2 q28  11  that the ^fact that the !{R\ussians} 'tried so     / 
11 4 110 8150 1 1 q28  11  :{h\ard} to 'save his !j\ob for h/im# .            / 
11 4 110 8160 1 1 q28  11  ^after [dhi: @] . :refe"!r\/endum# .               / 
11 4 110 8170 1 3 q28  11  be^cause they !thought that the :Anglo-'Russian    / 
11 4 110 8170 1 2 q28  11  'free [tre @:] :trade a'greement was 'in the       / 
11 4 110 8170 1 1 q28  11  :interests of ":R\/ussia# .                        / 
11 4 111 8180 1 2 q28  11  ^is [@] . !further 'strengthening the :view of     / 
11 4 111 8180 1 1 q28  11  !m\/any of us#                                     / 
11 4 111 8190 1 1 q28  11  that the ^Anglo-'Russian :trade in the p/ast#      / 
11 4 111 8200 1 2 q28  11  has ^been . !far 'more to the ad'vantage of        / 
11 4 111 8200 1 1 q28  11  :R\/ussia# .                                       / 
11 4 111 8210 1 1 q28  11  than it ^has . been to 'this !c\ountry# .          / 
11 4 111 8220 1 2 q28  11  ^will he sub'mit to some :inde:pendent [@] . :group/ 
11 4 111 8220 1 1 q28  11  of !p\eople# .                                     / 
11 4 112 8230 1 1 q28  11  a ^st\/udy#                                        / 
11 4 112 8240 1 1 q28  11  as to ^whether !Anglo-'Russian :tr\/ade# .         / 
11 4 112 8250 1 1 q28  11  ^has been worthwh\/ile#                            / 
11 4 112 8260 1 2 q28  11  ^when the 'export 'credits and :other 'things are  / 
11 4 112 8260 1 1 q28  11  !t\aken into acc/ount# .                           / 
11 4 112 8270 1 1 q28  11  be^fore con'cluding a :f\/urther a'greement# - -   / 
11 4 112 8280 1 1 a2   11  ^w\ell#                                            / 
11 4 112 8290 1 1 a2   11  I ^think the . :honourable g/entleman#             / 
11 4 112 8300 1 1 a2   11  would ex^{p\ect me to} ig:n\/ore#                  / 
11 4 112 8310 1 3 a2   12  [dhi:] ^first and . :slightly un!w\/orthy 'part of / 
11 4 112 8310 1 2 a2   12  his [@:] . ((the)) intro^d\/uctory 'part of his    / 
11 4 112 8310 1 1 a2   12  qu\estion# .                                       / 
11 4 113 8320 1 2 a2   11  as ^far as '[dhi:] more !s\erious 'part is         / 
11 4 113 8320 1 1 a2   11  conc/erned# .                                      / 
11 4 113 8330 1 1 a2   11  a^bout [dhi:] !b\/enefit to _Britain#              / 
11 4 113 8340 1 1 a2   11  of the . ^Anglo-'Russian !tr\/ade a'greement# -    / 
11 4 113 8350 1 1 a2   11  ((I mean)) "^I take the v/iew# .                   / 
11 4 113 8360 1 2 a2   11  [@:] ^and I think :others would !t\oo in this      / 
11 4 113 8360 1 1 a2   11  H/ouse# .                                          / 
11 4 113 8370 1 2 a2   11  that . ^we have !had an un:satis"!f\actory 'level  / 
11 4 113 8370 1 1 a2   11  of 'trade with the 'Soviet /Union# .               / 
11 4 114 8380 1 2 a2   11  and an ^unsatis_factory . "!!b\alance of 'trade    / 
11 4 114 8380 1 1 a2   11  with the 'Soviet /Union# .                         / 
11 4 114 8390 1 1 a2   11  and "^m\y conc/ern#                                / 
11 4 114 8400 1 2 a2   11  and I would ^hope it`d 'be the con:cern of !any .  / 
11 4 114 8400 1 1 a2   11  'trade :s\/ecretary of this 'country# .            / 
11 4 114 8410 1 2 a2   11  would ^be to . im!{pr\ove the} !v\olume of our     / 
11 4 114 8410 1 1 a2   11  'trade with the 'Soviet /Union# .                  / 
11 4 115 8420 1 1 a2   11  ^and to im"!pr\/ove the 'balance# .                / 
11 4 115 8430 1 1 a2   11  and to ^make _sure at the !s\ame t/ime#            / 
11 4 115 8440 1 1 a2   11  that ^there was . !m\/utual adv\antage#            / 
11 5   1   10 1 1 a    11  ^Jack H/oram# -                                    / 
11 5   1   20 1 2 b    11  I ^think the 'honourable :gentleman who`s 'just    / 
11 5   1   20 1 1 b    11  :sp\/oken#                                         / 
11 5   1   30 1 1 b    11  ^and and his 'honourable - :fr\/iends#             / 
11 5   1   40 1 1 b    11  in ^[dhi: @] 'Scottish !N\ational 'Party#          / 
11 5   1   50 1 1 b    11  and the ^Welsh - [plaid !k\/umre]#                 / 
11 5   1   60 1 1 b    11  have ^misunder"!st\ood#                            / 
11 5   1   70 1 2 b    12  the ^[bei] . the ^nature of the situ'ation we      / 
11 5   1   70 1 1 b    12  ":{f\ace} ((with)) the NE":\B# -                   / 
11 5   1   80 1 1 b    11  as it ^seems to :m\/e#                             / 
11 5   1   90 1 2 b    11  and I ^{sp\eak as} . :one who has con:siderable    / 
11 5   1   90 1 1 b    11  !s\ympathy#                                        / 
11 5   2  100 1 1 b    11  for the ^basic 'point of :view they put !f\orward# / 
11 5   2  110 1 2 b    11  ^namely ((that)) there`s been !too much            / 
11 5   2  110 1 1 b    11  :centraliz:\ation#                                 / 
11 5   2  120 1 2 b    11  ((and)) ^too many de'cisions :taken from           / 
11 5   2  120 1 1 b    11  L/\ondon# .                                        / 
11 5   2  130 1 1 b    11  I ^think "th/\ey would a'gree#                     / 
11 5   2  140 1 1 b    11  that ((the)) ^north of :/\England#                 / 
11 5   2  150 2 2 b    21  has ^suffered _just as . !{m\uch} as :Scotland and / 
11 5   2  150 2 1 b    21  *W/\ales from this                                 / 
11 5   3  160 1 1 ?    11  *((^hear h\ear#))*                                 / 
11 5   3  150 1 1(b    11  'problem#*                                         / 
11 5   3  170 1 1 b    11  over ^over a 'period of y/\ears# .                 / 
11 5   3  180 1 1 b    11  and we`re as "^anxious as "!!th\ey are#            / 
11 5   3  190 1 2 b    11  to ^get !some kind of 'devo:lution on that         / 
11 5   3  190 1 1 b    11  !b\asis# -                                         / 
11 5   3  200 1 1 b    11  ^but ((I)) . I !think the 'problem /\is#           / 
11 5   3  210 1 1 b    11  that the ^NE'B has a "!n\umber of 'functions# -    / 
11 5   3  220 1 1 b    11  ^some of _which are !{cl\early} ":n\/ational#      / 
11 5   4  230 1 1 b    11  ((and)) ^while we 're!t\ain a {u^nited :k\ingdom#}#/ 
11 5   4  240 1 1 b    11  on its ^present b\asis# .                          / 
11 5   4  250 1 1 b    11  you will ^have to !t\/ake 'those#                  / 
11 5   4  260 1 1 b    11  on a "^n\ational 'basis# -                         / 
11 5   4  270 1 1 b    11  and ^some which are 'clearly "r\egional# -         / 
11 5   4  280 1 1 b    11  and I ^think . 'what the . !thing it must :d\o# .  / 
11 5   4  290 1 2 b    11  ^is to . !concen'trate . [dhi: @] re:sources of the/ 
11 5   4  290 1 1 b    11  'SD:\/A#                                           / 
11 5   4  300 1 1 b    11  and the "^W\elsh De'velopment /Agency#             / 
11 5   5  310 1 2 b    11  ^[?]on !taking "[r\i:zhnl - @] . ":{v\iew {of      / 
11 5   5  310 1 1 b    11  ^their pr\oblems#}#}# .                            / 
11 5   5  320 1 1 b    11  ^they must be the "!f\/ocus# .                     / 
11 5   5  330 1 1 b    11  ^for "!r\/egional econ'omic so'lutions# .          / 
11 5   5  340 1 1 b    11  ^just as the ![?]NE:\/B#                           / 
11 5   5  350 1 1 b    11  ^concentrates _on the more "!n\ational problems# . / 
11 5   5  360 1 2 b    11  ^obviously you "!{c\an`t 'break 'up} _[ei]         / 
11 5   5  360 1 1 b    11  par:{t\icular} :c\ompany#                          / 
11 5   5  370 1 1 b    11  into ^into its con!stituent((s)) :p\/arts# .       / 
11 5   6  380 1 1 b    11  and ^say we "!deal 'with . "!th\at p/art# .        / 
11 5   6  390 1 2 b    12  ^that [s@bs] that "^Welsh sub'sidiary of a         / 
11 5   6  390 1 1 b    12  :national :c\ompany# .                             / 
11 5   6  400 1 2 b    11  "^wholly by 'means of the 'Welsh De:velopment      / 
11 5   6  400 1 1 b    11  \/Agency# .                                        / 
11 5   6  410 1 1 b    11  and the "^rest of it by 'means of the NE!\B# .     / 
11 5   6  420 1 1 b    11  ^what you must "!!d\o#                             / 
11 5   6  430 1 1 b    11  is ^work out your "!r\egional 'strategy# .         / 
11 5   7  440 1 1 b    11  with^in your !SD:\/A#                              / 
11 5   7  450 1 1 b    11  ^or your !W\/elsh De'velopment 'Agency# .          / 
11 5   7  460 1 1 b    11  and your "^n\/ational 'strategy with the 'NE\B# .  / 
11 5   7  470 1 1 b    21  "^but . [n]                                        / 
11 5   7  480 1 1 II   20  (another member rises)                             / 
11 5   7  490 1 1 b    11  ^w/ell#                                            / 
11 5   7  500 1 1 b    11  all ^r/ight#                                       / 
11 5   7  510 1 1 c    21  ((^I`m I`m))                                       / 
11 5   7  520 1 1 a    11  ((^Mr)) *!Cr\awford#*                              / 
11 5   7  530 1 2 c    11  *((well it`s)) . [i] . I`m* ^grateful to the       / 
11 5   7  530 1 1 c    11  'honourable :m\ember#                              / 
11 5   8  540 1 1 c    11  es^p\ecially#                                      / 
11 5   8  550 1 2 c    11  as ^he is a !fellow of the same !{c\ollege as :{\I / 
11 5   8  550 1 1 c    11  was at#}} in !C\ambridge Mr 'Deputy {^Sp\eaker#}# ./ 
11 5   8  560 1 1 c    11  *he ^must* !r\ealize#                              / 
11 5   8  570 3 1 c    23  *that ^we . that . that ^we .*                     / 
11 5   8  580 1 1 ?    20  **( . laughs)**                                    / 
11 5   8  590 1 1 d    11  **an ^English univ/ersity#**                       / 
11 5   8  570 2 1(c    23  are !not +a . an ^inter:n\ational+                 / 
11 5   9  600 1 1 d    21  +((1 syll ^that`s not very 3 sylls))+              / 
11 5   9  570 1 1(c    13  'uni'versity# .                                    / 
11 5   9  610 1 1 c    11  ^we . are !{n/\ot} a :r\/egion# .                  / 
11 5   9  620 1 1 c    11  ^we [?] are a :n\ation# .                          / 
11 5   9  630 1 4 c    11  and ^this is what 'really [di] . 'diffe'rentiates  / 
11 5   9  630 1 3 c    11  'Scotland and 'Wales from the :northeast of        / 
11 5   9  630 1 2 c    11  'England the the :north'west the :west 'country and/ 
11 5   9  630 1 1 c    11  !s\o on#                                           / 
11 5   9  640 1 2 b    13  I think we`re - I ^think 'we`re :[ra: ?@] . ^Mr    / 
11 5   9  640 1 1 b    13  Speaker !rather [e] . ^D\eputy 'Speaker#           / 
11 5  10  650 1 2 b    11  we`re ^rather [e] 'entering 'onto ((a))            / 
11 5  10  650 1 1 b    11  "!d\/ifferent 'ground ((at)) 'that _point#         / 
11 5  10  660 1 1 b    11  I "^wouldn`t :care to pur!s\ue#                    / 
11 5  10  670 1 2 b    11  ^that [@] - par!ticular [n @] sort of - [@:]       / 
11 5  10  670 1 1 b    11  soph"!{\isticated} :p\/oint# .                     / 
11 5  10  680 1 1 b    21  [@] ^never 'having :really *[@]                    / 
11 5  11  690 1 1 c    20  *((b\asic 2 to 4 sylls))*                          / 
11 5  11  700 1 1 b    11  [@ b] ((it))* ^may be !b\asic#                     / 
11 5  11  710 1 1 b    11  but it`s ^also _rather soph!\isticated#            / 
11 5  11  720 1 1 b    11  and ^rather (([i])) . "!r\/elevant I 'think#       / 
11 5  11  730 1 1 b    11  in ^terms of 'this par!t\/icular de"b\ate# -       / 
11 5  11  740 1 1 b    11  I ^think we "!\/are 'talking#                      / 
11 5  11  750 1 1 b    11  [?]a^b\out# -                                      / 
11 5  11  760 1 1 b    11  ^regional 'economic pl/anning#                     / 
11 5  11  770 1 1 b    11  with^in the United !K\ingdom# -                    / 
11 5  11  780 1 1 b    11  ^and [@] . !\/I 'am#                               / 
11 5  12  790 1 1 b    11  ^\any'way# .                                       / 
11 5  12  800 1 1 b    12  and I ^think that [@] - I ^would a!gr\ee#          / 
11 5  12  810 1 1 b    11  ^nonethe!l\ess#                                    / 
11 5  12  820 1 1 b    11  that ^even if 'I . put "!f\orward that 'argument# ./ 
11 5  12  830 1 1 b    11  ^that !funda!m\entally [dhi: ?@]#                  / 
11 5  12  840 1 1 b    11  ^[dhi:] !{tw\o} !br\anches of the . of the 'NE'B#  / 
11 5  12  850 1 1 b    11  ex"^\ist# .                                        / 
11 5  12  860 1 1 b    11  to ^further "!!r\egional 'economic c/oncepts#      / 
11 5  12  870 1 2 b    11  and and ^further "!r\egional {^economic            / 
11 5  12  870 1 1 b    11  :devo:l\utionary . {[@] ^pl\anning#}#}#            / 
11 5  13  880 1 1 b    12  with^in the . with^in the :Sc\otland#              / 
11 5  13  890 1 1 b    11  and *(([wi])) ^W\ales#*                            / 
11 5  13  900 2 2 e    22  *((^could I 'say))* . ^could the . '[?]honourable  / 
11 5  13  900 2 1 e    22  'mem*ber [@]* [@:m] .                              / 
11 5  13  910 1 1 b    11  *^c/ertainly#*                                     / 
11 5  13  920 1 1 a    11  +((^Mr)) _W\/igley#+                               / 
11 5  13  900 1 1(e    12  +ex'plain what he 'means by+ :two br\anches#       / 
11 5  14  930 1 1 b    11  ^y/es#                                             / 
11 5  14  940 1 1 b    11  ^the !SD/A#                                        / 
11 5  14  950 1 1 b    11  and the ^W\elsh De'velopment 'Agency#              / 
11 5  14  960 1 1 mem  11  ( - - cries of ^/\ah#)                             / 
11 5  14  970 1 1 b    20  ((I`ll [tr])) .                                    / 
11 5  14  980 1 2 e    11  ^would [dhi:] 'Secretary of State 'care to         / 
11 5  14  980 1 1 e    11  inter:v\ene at that p/oint#                        / 
11 5  14  990 1 1 e    11  ((cos ^they !took him a'way a:g\ain#)) - -         / 
11 5  14 1000 1 1 a    11  ^Mr H/oram#                                        / 
11 5  14 1010 1 2 b    11  ^finally {c\ome to 'my my [@]} . [?@] . "!l\/ast   / 
11 5  14 1010 1 1 b    11  'point# -                                          / 
11 5  15 1020 1 1 b    11  [?@] - ^what I was going !\on to s/ay#             / 
11 5  15 1030 1 2 b    11  and I ^hope 'I would have :some of {th/\eir}       / 
11 5  15 1030 1 1 b    11  sup!p\/ort on 'this# -                             / 
11 5  15 1040 1 1 b    11  would be that ^while it is !!tr\ue#                / 
11 5  15 1050 1 1 b    11  that the ^NE:\B# .                                 / 
11 5  15 1060 1 2 b    11  must ^concentrate . on the !n\ational . 'economic  / 
11 5  15 1060 1 1 b    11  pr/oblems#                                         / 
11 5  15 1070 1 1 b    11  the ^n\ational economic pl/anning#                 / 
11 5  15 1080 1 1 b    11  and the ^SD:\A# .                                  / 
11 5  15 1090 1 3 b    11  ^concentrate on !regional so'lutions with:in 'those/ 
11 5  15 1090 1 2 b    11  :their [@u] the [@u] the !borders of :Scotland and / 
11 5  15 1090 1 1 b    11  of "!W\ales# -                                     / 
11 5  16 1100 1 1 b    11  ^nonethe!!l\ess#                                   / 
11 5  16 1110 1 1 b    11  they ^still [li] . !{d\oes} !l\eave# .             / 
11 5  16 1120 1 1 b    11  an im^mense !g\ap#                                 / 
11 5  16 1130 1 1 b    11  in ^regional !pl\anning# -                         / 
11 5  16 1140 1 1 b    11  ^I would !l\ike to s/ee#                           / 
11 5  16 1150 1 2 b    11  ((and)) I ^put it :forward !s\eriously to my       / 
11 5  16 1150 1 1 b    11  'honourable _friends#                              / 
11 5  17 1160 1 2 b    11  that I ^hope 'they . _they would con"!s\ider       / 
11 5  17 1160 1 1 b    11  this# .                                            / 
11 5  17 1170 1 1 b    11  "^over the (('month to :c\ome))# .                 / 
11 5  17 1180 1 1 b    11  the de^v\/elopment 'of# -                          / 
11 5  17 1190 1 1 b    11  ^[ei] "!mini :NE!\B#                               / 
11 5  17 1200 1 2 b    11  on the "^l\ines of the 'Scottish and _Welsh        / 
11 5  17 1200 1 1 b    11  De_velopment /Agencies#                            / 
11 5  17 1210 1 1 b    11  "^for the !English de'velopment :r\egions# .       / 
11 5  17 1220 1 1 b    11  what "^\I want to s/ee# .                          / 
11 5  17 1230 1 1 b    11  is ^[ei] !north of :\England# .                    / 
11 5  17 1240 1 1 b    11  de"^velopment :\/agency#                           / 
11 5  18 1250 1 1 b    11  ^[ei] "!M\ersey'side . de'velopment /agency# .     / 
11 5  18 1260 1 2 b    11  and ^[ei] de!velopment 'agency for the             / 
11 5  18 1260 1 1 b    11  :south"!w\est of 'England#                         / 
11 5  18 1270 1 1 b    11  ^those are the :three . de:velopment :r\egions# .  / 
11 5  18 1280 1 1 b    11  with^in . [dhi dhi] :borders of of !\/England# .   / 
11 5  18 1290 1 1 b    11  and we ^need de'velopment /agencies#               / 
11 5  18 1300 1 1 b    11  for "^th\/eir *con'cerns#* .                       / 
11 5  18 1310 2 1 b    21  ^to pur!{s\ue} "!r\egional                         / 
11 5  19 1320 1 1 ?    11  *^hear h\ear#*                                     / 
11 5  19 1310 1 1(b    11  'economic pl/anning# .                             / 
11 5  19 1330 1 1 b    11  ^for "!th\em# -                                    / 
11 5  19 1340 1 1 b    11  ^that is - would !b\e#                             / 
11 5  19 1350 1 1 b    11  ^th\/erefore I 'think#                             / 
11 5  19 1360 1 1 b    11  a "^logical :s\et-up# -                            / 
11 5  19 1370 1 1 b    11  [@] with^in the :c\/on'fines#                      / 
11 5  19 1380 1 1 b    11  of the ^present [@] . !th\inking# .                / 
11 5  19 1390 1 1 b    11  it would be a ^[meizh@] de:v\/elopment#            / 
11 5  19 1400 1 1 b    11  to ex"^pand the :[?]NE:\/B#                        / 
11 5  19 1410 1 1 b    11  in ^this par!ticular :sort of :w\/ay#              / 
11 5  20 1420 1 1 b    11  to ^{sp\awn} if you :l\ike#                        / 
11 5  20 1430 1 1 b    11  "^f\urther 'NE/Bs# -                               / 
11 5  20 1440 1 2 b    11  I would ^think it 'would . com'mand con!s\iderable / 
11 5  20 1440 1 1 b    11  sup'port#                                          / 
11 5  20 1450 1 2 b    11  not ^only from my 'honourable 'friends on :th\is   / 
11 5  20 1450 1 1 b    11  side#                                              / 
11 5  20 1460 1 2 b    11  but from . ^[s@m] . 'honourable 'gentleman on      / 
11 5  20 1460 1 1 b    11  "!th\/at 'side# .                                  / 
11 5  20 1470 1 1 b    11  ((I)) would ^make 'absolutely _clear-!c\ut# -      / 
11 5  20 1480 1 1 b    11  the ^sort of . "!v\iew which#                      / 
11 5  20 1490 1 1 b    11  "^\I 'hope# .                                      / 
11 5  21 1500 1 1 b    11  the "^g\overnment h/as#                            / 
11 5  21 1510 1 1 b    11  and which "^\/I certainly 'have# .                 / 
11 5  21 1520 1 1 b    11  as to the "^r\ole of the 'NE'B# .                  / 
11 5  21 1530 1 1 b    11  "^n\amely#                                         / 
11 5  21 1540 1 1 b    11  that it should ^tackle "!n\ational 'problems#      / 
11 5  21 1550 1 1 b    11  ^through [dhi:s] ":n\/ational organiz'ation# .     / 
11 5  21 1560 1 1 b    11  ^which as I !s\ay#                                 / 
11 5  21 1570 1 1 b    11  as ^long as we !have a u:nited :k\ingdom# -        / 
11 5  21 1580 1 2 b    12  [@] . ^we !m\ust tackle it [n/aeshnlsli] .         / 
11 5  21 1580 1 1 b    12  "^n\/ationally# .                                  / 
11 5  22 1590 1 1 b    11  and "^r\/egional 'problems# -                      / 
11 5  22 1600 1 1 b    11  [@] . with ^r\egional de'velopment /agencies# .    / 
11 5  22 1610 1 1 b    11  ^based "!!\in 'those r/egions#                     / 
11 5  22 1620 1 2 b    11  ^[dhi:] "!north of 'England de:velopment 'agency . / 
11 5  22 1620 1 1 b    11  ":{b\ased on} :N\/ew'castle#                       / 
11 5  22 1630 1 1 b    11  ^just as the !Scottish 'one I pre:s\ume#           / 
11 5  22 1640 1 1 b    11  will be ^based 'on . :Glasgow or !\/Edin'burgh# .  / 
11 5  22 1650 1 2 b    11  and . can . can [dhe] can ^there'fore "!l\/ook at  / 
11 5  22 1650 1 1 b    11  these 'problems#                                   / 
11 5  23 1660 1 1 b    11  "^t\otally#                                        / 
11 5  23 1670 1 2 b    11  from a ^regional . [@] and ":local 'point of       / 
11 5  23 1670 1 1 b    11  v\iew# - .                                         / 
11 5  23 1680 1 1 a    11  ^Mr !N=icholas F\/airbairn#                        / 
11 5  23 1690 1 1 d    11  ^Deputy :Sp\eaker#                                 / 
11 5  23 1700 1 3 d    11  I ^rise to sup'port the a'mendment in the 'name [?]/ 
11 5  23 1700 1 2 d    11  of the 'member 'for - [@] - 'Perth and East        / 
11 5  23 1700 1 1 d    11  "!P\/erthshire# -                                  / 
11 5  23 1710 1 1 d    11  ^whose 'faith 'in 'Scottish educ\ation#            / 
11 5  24 1720 1 1 d    11  re^quired him to 'go to an "!\/English uni'versity#/ 
11 5  24 1730 1 1 c    11  ^inter:n\ational uni'versity#                      / 
11 5  24 1740 1 1 d    12  ^and . ^w/ell# .                                   / 
11 5  24 1750 1 2 d    11  ^if it be!comes inter'national when he :g\oes      / 
11 5  24 1750 1 1 d    11  there# -                                           / 
11 5  24 1760 1 1 d    12  ^but [@] and ^whose [@] "!!h\urt#                  / 
11 5  24 1770 1 2 d    11  at ^being ex!cluded from the :Industry 'Bill       / 
11 5  24 1770 1 1 d    11  Com:m\/ittee#                                      / 
11 5  24 1780 1 1 d    11  has com^pelled him to re:strict his at!t\endance#  / 
11 5  25 1790 1 2 d    11  ^on the !Land Com'munity _Bill Com'mittee . *to    / 
11 5  25 1790 1 1 d    11  'which he was e!l\ected#;-*;                       / 
11 5  25 1800 1 1 mem  11  *(laughter and cries) ^\oh#                        / 
11 5  25 1810 1 1 mem  11  ^ch=eap# .                                         / 
11 5  25 1820 1 1 mem  11  ^ch\eap#* - -                                      / 
11 5  25 1830 1 1 d    11  [@] - ^{\if we are to} h\/ave# - - .               / 
11 5  25 1840 1 1 d    11  ^[dhi:] . !socialist phil/osophy#                  / 
11 5  25 1850 1 1 d    11  which ap^p\ears to be th/is# - -                   / 
11 5  25 1860 1 2 d    11  ^first of 'all you re!{m\ove} from :flourishing    / 
11 5  25 1860 1 1 d    11  :private :industry _by tax"!\ation# -              / 
11 5  26 1870 1 2 d    11  the ^funds 'which it would . {\other'wise be}      / 
11 5  26 1870 1 1 d    11  :\able to inv/est# .                               / 
11 5  26 1880 1 1 d    11  ^then you set 'up a bu:r\/eaucracy# .              / 
11 5  26 1890 1 1 d    11  [@] to in^vest those 'funds in!st\ead# -           / 
11 5  26 1900 1 2 d    11  and we ^have this organiz'ation the :National      / 
11 5  26 1900 1 1 d    11  'Enterprise B/oard#                                / 
11 5  26 1910 1 1 d    11  ^which is ex!t\ended# .                            / 
11 5  26 1920 1 1 d    11  in^t\/ended# .                                     / 
11 5  26 1930 1 2 d    11  to ^m=eddle . with !flourishing :pr\ivate          / 
11 5  26 1930 1 1 d    11  /industry# .                                       / 
11 5  27 1940 1 1 d    11  ex^tend nationaliz/ation#                          / 
11 5  27 1950 1 1 d    11  [?] and ex^tend bu!r\eaucracy# -                   / 
11 5  27 1960 1 1 d    11  and ^\I bel/ieve# .                                / 
11 5  27 1970 1 2 d    11  that ^one of [dhi:] !major 'difficulties of this   / 
11 5  27 1970 1 1 d    11  c/ountry#                                          / 
11 5  27 1980 1 1 d    11  is the ^growing 'im!b\alance#                      / 
11 5  27 1990 1 1 d    11  ^[?]of the bu!r\/eaucracy#                         / 
11 5  27 2000 1 1 d    11  [?] and ^st\ate interf/erence#                     / 
11 5  27 2010 1 2 d    11  ^whether [w] it 'be with :{\industry or with}      / 
11 5  27 2010 1 1 d    11  !\anything /else# -                                / 
11 5  28 2020 1 1 d    11  [@] ^which we s/ee#                                / 
11 5  28 2030 1 1 d    11  as an ac^{c\/eler'ating} - [@] :pr\/o'gramme#      / 
11 5  28 2040 1 1 d    11  ^under !this !g\overnment#                         / 
11 5  28 2050 1 2 d    11  which of ^course !vastly in:creases . [@] our      / 
11 5  28 2050 1 1 d    11  :borrowing re!qu\irement# -                        / 
11 5  28 2060 1 1 d    11  ^n=ow in !Sc\/otland# -                            / 
11 5  28 2070 1 2 d    11  [@] I ^don`t 'think when the :industry bill first  / 
11 5  28 2070 1 1 d    11  /\entered com'mittee#                              / 
11 5  28 2080 1 1 d    11  the ^government had :quite ap!pr\/eciated 'this# . / 
11 5  29 2090 1 1 d    11  ^we are to !have _these !two \agencies# .          / 
11 5  29 2100 1 2 d    11  ^which are es!sentially 'going to do the {s/ame}   / 
11 5  29 2100 1 1 d    11  th/ing# -                                          / 
11 5  29 2110 1 2 d    11  ^they are 'going to !inter{f\ere} [?] in 'private  / 
11 5  29 2110 1 1 d    11  :\/industry# -                                     / 
11 5  29 2120 1 1 d    11  [@] in ^Sc\otland# -                               / 
11 5  29 2130 1 1 d    11  ^one of them will be 'based in L/ondon#            / 
11 5  29 2140 1 2 d    11  [?] and ^one of them will _have its head_quarters ./ 
11 5  29 2140 1 1 d    11  [@] pre:sumably in !\Edinburgh# - .                / 
11 5  29 2150 1 2 d    11  [@] ^both will be :bureau'cratic                   / 
11 5  29 2150 1 1 d    11  'organiz!=ations# .                                / 
11 5  30 2160 1 1 d    11  ^answerable es:sentially . to !n\obody# -          / 
11 5  30 2170 1 2 d    11  ^both pre'sumably 'will have :separate             / 
11 5  30 2170 1 1 d    11  !p=olicies# .                                      / 
11 5  30 2180 1 2 d    11  and ^both pre:sumably will 'spend a !g\ood deal of / 
11 5  30 2180 1 1 d    11  their t/ime# .                                     / 
11 5  30 2190 1 1 d    11  dis^cussing with !one an:=other# .                 / 
11 5  30 2200 1 2 d    11  ^whether !each . should 'do . _what the 'other     / 
11 5  30 2200 1 1 d    11  in:tends to !d\o#                                  / 
11 5  31 2210 1 1 mem  20  ( - . right noises)                                / 
11 5  31 2220 1 1 d    11  ^now [?]!I bel/ieve# .                             / 
11 5  31 2230 1 1 d    11  that "^n\either# .                                 / 
11 5  31 2240 1 1 d    11  of these ^agencies is a :good id/ea# -             / 
11 5  31 2250 1 1 d    11  ^\if there is 'government m/oney#                  / 
11 5  31 2260 1 2 d    11  ^if there is 'money to 'spend on in'vestment in    / 
11 5  31 2260 1 1 d    11  'industry in Sc/otland# .                          / 
11 5  31 2270 1 1 d    11  then ^let us 'have the m\oney# .                   / 
11 5  31 2280 1 1 d    11  there are in^n\umerable 'agencies#                 / 
11 5  31 2290 1 2 d    11  ^which can !spend it al:ready in :Scotland with:out/ 
11 5  31 2290 1 1 d    11  setting 'up . !not /one# .                         / 
11 5  32 2300 1 1 d    11  but ^tw/\o# -                                      / 
11 5  32 2310 1 1 d    11  ^two !new f\etters# .                              / 
11 5  32 2320 1 1 d    11  to be ^placed up'on 'Scottish \industry# .         / 
11 5  32 2330 1 1 d    11  ^if you have !m\oney to _give them#                / 
11 5  32 2340 1 1 d    11  ^if the 'government has "!m\/oney to 'give them# . / 
11 5  32 2350 1 1 d    11  ^just 'let us 'have it in :Sc\otland# .            / 
11 5  32 2360 1 1 d    11  but we do ^not n\eed# .                            / 
11 5  32 2370 1 1 d    11  [ei] ^bronto!saurus bu:r\eaucracy# .               / 
11 5  33 2380 1 1 d    11  in ^L/ondon# .                                     / 
11 5  33 2390 1 2 d    11  an^other 'bronto!saurus bu!reaucracy [?]in         / 
11 5  33 2390 1 1 d    11  !\Edin_burgh# .                                    / 
11 5  33 2400 1 1 d    11  at^tempting to !inter":f\ere# .                    / 
11 5  33 2410 1 3 d    11  with the ^sensible . de:velopment . of             / 
11 5  33 2410 1 2 d    11  soph'isticated . [@] and :go-a'head 'industry in   / 
11 5  33 2410 1 1 d    11  !Sc\otland#                                        / 
11 5  33 2420 1 1 d    11  and it is be^cause "!!w\e be'lieve# -              / 
11 5  33 2430 1 1 d    12  that ^[dhi] ^these [@] :\agencies#                 / 
11 5  33 2440 1 1 d    11  "^b\oth of them# -                                 / 
11 5  34 2450 1 1 d    11  ^not the f\unds# .                                 / 
11 5  34 2460 1 1 d    11  but the ^\agencies#                                / 
11 5  34 2470 1 1 d    11  ^will - !do !great "h/\arm# .                      / 
11 5  34 2480 1 1 d    11  to ^industry in Sc\otland#                         / 
11 5  34 2490 1 2 c    22  ^would the 'honourable 'member ((2 sylls)) I`m I`m / 
11 5  34 2490 1 1 c    22  I`m ^grate*ful*                                    / 
11 5  34 2500 1 1 a    11  *((^Cr/aw*ford#))                                  / 
11 5  34 2510 1 2 c    11  I`d just ^like to [@m] :\empha'size Mr _Deputy     / 
11 5  34 2510 1 1 c    11  :{Sp\eaker that#}# .                               / 
11 5  34 2520 1 3 c    11  ^while we`re !grateful for the sup:p\ort of the    / 
11 5  34 2520 1 2 c    11  honourable 'member {for Kin^ross and 'West         / 
11 5  34 2520 1 1 c    11  P\erthshire#}# .                                   / 
11 5  35 2530 1 2 c    11  we ^actually !do sup!{p/\ort} [?ei] Sc/\ottish     / 
11 5  35 2530 1 1 c    11  De'velopment 'Agency [?]in :{^Sc\otland#}#         / 
11 5  35 2540 1 1 c    11  be^cause we`d !l\ike to see 'jobs#                 / 
11 5  35 2550 1 1 c    11  ^[?]and in'vestment in !Sc\otland# -               / 
11 5  35 2560 1 1 c    11  we ^don`t want to 'see !any NE:B in !Sc\otland#    / 
11 5  35 2570 1 1 c    11  ^s=o# -                                            / 
11 5  35 2580 1 1 c    11  ^while we !w\elcome his supp/\ort# .               / 
11 5  36 2590 1 2 c    11  [@m] we ^don`t go 'all the {w\ay} :with 'what he`s / 
11 5  36 2590 1 1 c    11  !s\aying#                                          / 
11 5  36 2600 1 1 a    11  *^Mr F=airbairn#*                                  / 
11 5  36 2610 1 2 d    11  *I ap^preciate 'what .* [w wo] 'what the :member   / 
11 5  36 2610 1 1 d    11  for . :Perth and East :Perthshire "s/\ays# -       / 
11 5  36 2620 1 2 d    11  but of ^course [@] - {the Cons/\ervative 'Party}   / 
11 5  36 2620 1 1 d    11  /\also 'want {the ^j\obs#}# -                      / 
11 5  36 2630 1 1 d    11  ^and the in'vestment in :Sc\/otland#               / 
11 5  37 2640 1 2 d    11  but you ^do not 'need to set 'up an:other          / 
11 5  37 2640 1 1 d    11  bu'reaucracy in :order to _spend the !m\oney# .    / 
11 5  37 2650 1 3 d    11  and ^that is 'where I _part !company with the      / 
11 5  37 2650 1 2 d    11  'honourable 'member a'bout the :Scottish           / 
11 5  37 2650 1 1 d    11  De'velopment !\Agency# .                           / 
11 5  37 2660 1 2 d    11  cos we((`ve)) ^plenty of 'agencies to 'do it       / 
11 5  37 2660 1 1 d    11  al!r\eady in 'Scotland# .                          / 
11 5  37 2670 1 1 d    11  but ^if we !h\ave to have !/one#                   / 
11 5  38 2680 1 1 d    11  we ^certainly 'don`t want ":b\oth# -               / 
11 5  38 2690 1 2 d    11  and ^if I !may 'be {for a "!m\oment} 'very         / 
11 5  38 2690 1 1 d    11  :Sc\ottish# -                                      / 
11 5  38 2700 1 1 d    11  if we ^have to have "!\any# -                      / 
11 5  38 2710 1 1 d    11  ^let`s have "!one in ":Sc\/otland#                 / 
11 5  38 2720 1 1 ?    11  ^just for a +m/o((ment))#+                         / 
11 5  38 2730 1 1 d    11  +and ^not+ 'one in :L\ondon#                       / 
11 5  38 2740 1 1 mem  11  - ^y\es#                                           / 
11 5  38 2750 1 1 mem  20  (etc)                                              / 
11 5  39 2760 1 1 ?    11  ^just for a m\oment 'Nicky# .                      / 
11 5  39 2770 1 1 ?    11  ((^that`s /it#)) .                                 / 
11 5  39 2780 1 1 a    11  ^Gordon W/ilson#                                   / 
11 5  39 2790 1 1 f    11  [@] Mr ^Deputy !Sp\/eaker#                         / 
11 5  39 2800 1 1 f    11  it ^seems to :m\/e#                                / 
11 5  39 2810 1 2 f    12  ^that [@m] - 'now . the ^government 'is [@] .      / 
11 5  39 2810 1 1 f    12  :suffering :h\/ere#                                / 
11 5  39 2820 1 1 f    11  ^from . a sort of !split de'cision "!m\aking# -    / 
11 5  39 2830 1 2 f    11  ^it [@] !doesn`t 'seem to be :able to 'make up its / 
11 5  39 2830 1 1 f    11  :m\/ind# .                                         / 
11 5  39 2840 1 1 f    11  [@] ^whether . or n/ot# .                          / 
11 5  40 2850 1 2 f    11  ^there should 'be [ei] !single de:velopment 'agency/ 
11 5  40 2850 1 1 f    11  in :Sc/otland#                                     / 
11 5  40 2860 1 1 f    11  and ^one for the U'nited !K\ingdom#                / 
11 5  40 2870 1 2 f    11  we ^have con!fusion 'drifting !\into this          / 
11 5  40 2870 1 1 f    11  de_bate# .                                         / 
11 5  40 2880 1 1 f    11  [?]al^r\/eady# -                                   / 
11 5  40 2890 1 1 f    11  on the ^gr/\ound#                                  / 
11 5  40 2900 1 1 f    11  that ^the . !Scottish De'velopment :\/Agency# .    / 
11 5  40 2910 1 1 f    11  ^might be in:t\/ended#                             / 
11 5  40 2920 1 2 f    11  (([@])) ^to _be '[dhi] sort of !second :cousin     / 
11 5  40 2920 1 1 f    11  :twice re:{m\/oved} of the !NE:\/B#                / 
11 5  40 2930 1 1 f    11  ^which is _[dhi - @] the !main "!r\elative# .      / 
11 5  41 2940 1 1 f    11  and [@] the ^trouble :\is of c/ourse#              / 
11 5  41 2950 1 1 f    11  that ^this 'sort of con:f\/usion#                  / 
11 5  41 2960 1 1 f    11  which is "^seen here alr/\eady in this H/ouse# .   / 
11 5  41 2970 1 1 f    11  is ^likely to "breed even ":m\/ore# -              / 
11 5  41 2980 1 1 f    11  ^once you s/ee#                                    / 
11 5  41 2990 1 1 f    11  ^[dhi:] !two . [@] 'organiz/ations#                / 
11 5  41 3000 1 1 f    11  [?@] ^oper'ating in !pr\actice# - .                / 
11 5  41 3010 1 1 f    11  [@] it ^has al!ready been st\ated#                 / 
11 5  42 3020 1 1 f    11  in the ^c\/ourse of this de'bate#                  / 
11 5  42 3030 1 2 f    11  [@] par^ticularly 'by [dhi: . @] :member for 'East / 
11 5  42 3030 1 1 f    11  Aber!!d\/een'shire# .                              / 
11 5  42 3040 1 1 f    11  that [@:m] - ^one of the :pr\oblems#               / 
11 5  42 3050 1 1 f    11  that ^Scotland !has !{f\aced} for 'many :y\/ears# ./ 
11 5  42 3060 1 1 f    11  is a ^lack of de:c\/ision 'making#                 / 
11 5  42 3070 1 2 f    11  [?]a ^drift 'of [@] . this de:cision 'making       / 
11 5  42 3070 1 1 f    11  p/ower#                                            / 
11 5  42 3080 1 1 f    11  to^wards the !c\entre# -                           / 
11 5  42 3090 1 1 f    11  and ^y=et# .                                       / 
11 5  42 3100 1 1 f    11  we ^have on the !\one 'side#                       / 
11 5  43 3110 1 1 f    11  the ^government`s in:t\/ention# .                  / 
11 5  43 3120 1 1 f    11  to ^set up a :Scottish de'velopment /agency#       / 
11 5  43 3130 1 1 f    11  and a ^W\elsh development /agency# .               / 
11 5  43 3140 1 1 f    11  ^wh\ich 'one would s/ay# .                         / 
11 5  43 3150 1 1 f    11  ^that is a 'very good st\art# .                    / 
11 5  43 3160 1 1 f    11  at "^l/\east it would int/end#                     / 
11 5  43 3170 1 1 f    11  that ^certain de!cision 'making p/owers# .         / 
11 5  43 3180 1 1 f    11  ^would re'turn to Sc\otland# -                     / 
11 5  43 3190 1 1 f    11  on the ^other h/and#                               / 
11 5  44 3200 1 1 f    11  ^they !then pro'duce the :\/industry 'bill# .      / 
11 5  44 3210 1 2 f    11  ^which !doesn`t [@] . :take {/out} ":Scotland and  / 
11 5  44 3210 1 1 f    11  W/ales#                                            / 
11 5  44 3220 1 1 f    11  from the ^terms of the !!b\ill#                    / 
11 5  44 3230 1 1 f    11  it ^sets 'up the :National !\/Enterprise 'Board# . / 
11 5  44 3240 1 1 f    11  which is ^going to /operate#                       / 
11 5  44 3250 1 1 f    11  in ^two dis'tinct w\ays# -                         / 
11 5  44 3260 1 1 f    11  ^f\irst of /all#                                   / 
11 5  44 3270 1 2 f    11  it is ^going to 'act as [dhi:] de:velopment 'agency/ 
11 5  44 3270 1 1 f    11  for !/England# -                                   / 
11 5  45 3280 1 1 f    11  [@] on the ^/one 'part#                            / 
11 5  45 3290 1 1 f    11  ^and on the !second _p=art#                        / 
11 5  45 3300 1 1 f    11  it is "^going to /act# .                           / 
11 5  45 3310 1 1 f    11  as [ei] con"^tr/olling 'force# .                   / 
11 5  45 3320 1 1 f    11  ^as a de!c/ision 'making 'force# .                 / 
11 5  45 3330 1 1 f    11  ^as a de"!velopment 'agency for !!Sc\otland# -     / 
11 5  45 3340 1 2 f    11  ^well of 'course 'why do we !!{n\eed another}      / 
11 5  45 3340 1 1 f    11  de:v\elopment 'agency in Sc/otland#                / 
11 5  45 3350 1 1 f    11  ^if we`re _going to h\ave one# -                   / 
11 5  46 3360 1 2 f    11  the ^g/overnment have alr\eady 'intro'duced the    / 
11 5  46 3360 1 1 f    11  _bill#                                             / 
11 5  46 3370 1 2 f    11  in ^fact they`ve al'ready intro'duced "tw\o        / 
11 5  46 3370 1 1 f    11  bills# .                                           / 
11 5  46 3380 1 1 f    11  [@] ^one in th/is 'House#                          / 
11 5  46 3390 1 1 f    11  and ^one in the 'House of L/ords# .                / 
11 5  46 3400 1 1 f    11  ^in "\/order#                                      / 
11 5  46 3410 1 2 f    11  ^to [@m] . ob!tain the or to [?@] . to have        / 
11 5  46 3410 1 1 f    11  :[ledzhisl@tj@ri] :s\/anction# -                   / 
11 5  46 3420 1 2 f    11  [@] ^for '[dhi:] . :Scottish de'velopment          / 
11 5  46 3420 1 1 f    11  !\agency# -                                        / 
11 5  47 3430 1 1 f    11  ^{wh/y} {th/en} are we /asked# .                   / 
11 5  47 3440 1 1 f    11  ^introd/uce#                                       / 
11 5  47 3450 1 1 f    11  ^this conf/usion in the 'industry !!b\ill# -       / 
11 5  47 3460 1 1 f    11  and ^this 'goes "!much d/\eeper 'than# .           / 
11 5  47 3470 1 1 f    11  [@] ^what has been sug:g/ested#                    / 
11 5  47 3480 1 1 f    11  from the "^basic ad!ministrative conf/usion#       / 
11 5  47 3490 1 1 f    11  that is ^likely to res\ult# -                      / 
11 5  47 3500 1 1 f    11  [@:] ^could 'I go \on# -                           / 
11 5  47 3510 1 1 f    11  and ^s=ay that#                                    / 
11 5  47 3520 1 1 f    11  ^one of the pr\oblems#                             / 
11 5  48 3530 1 1 f    11  that we`ve ^had to face !\up to in Sc/otland#      / 
11 5  48 3540 1 1 f    11  ^is that !when you 'get :private f/irms#           / 
11 5  48 3550 1 1 f    11  ^which are !taken \/over# -                        / 
11 5  48 3560 1 1 f    11  ^by _m/erger#                                      / 
11 5  48 3570 1 1 f    13  or ^by [@] by ^[sink@] by ^simple takeover b/id# - / 
11 5  48 3580 1 1 f    11  you ^have '[ei] - - !system/atic#                  / 
11 5  48 3590 1 1 f    11  ^stripping [?] aw/ay [?]of f\unctions# -           / 
11 5  48 3600 1 1 f    12  [@] ^you you ^s\/ee this#                          / 
11 5  48 3610 1 1 f    11  in [@] ^many [n] 'multi:n\/ational 'companies#     / 
11 5  49 3620 1 1 f    11  ^where there is !no 'compet/ition#                 / 
11 5  49 3630 1 1 f    11  be^tween !one "br/\anch of the f/actory# .         / 
11 5  49 3640 1 1 f    11  and an^\other {^br\anch of the 'factory#}# -       / 
11 5  49 3650 1 1 f    11  [@] ^looking at this 'question the 'other "d/ay# - / 
11 5  49 3660 1 2 f    11  [@] a^bout 'the ((ef))"!fect of :central'ized      / 
11 5  49 3660 1 1 f    11  :gr/oups# . -                                      / 
11 5  49 3670 1 2 f    11  ^which !tend 'in them!{s\elves} to 'hog ((the))    / 
11 5  49 3670 1 1 f    11  'certain 'functions 'to the :c\/entre# .           / 
11 5  50 3680 1 1 f    11  in ^/\order to 'save on /overheads#                / 
11 5  50 3690 1 1 f    11  and to en^sure con!trol and com'patib/ility# .     / 
11 5  50 3700 1 1 f    11  there were ^certain [???]\/elements em\erged# .    / 
11 5  50 3710 1 2 f    11  which ^naturally 'tended to 'go towards the        / 
11 5  50 3710 1 1 f    11  !c\entre# -                                        / 
11 5  50 3720 1 1 f    11  re^search and de!v\elopment# -                     / 
11 5  50 3730 1 1 f    11  ^qu\ality con'trol# .                              / 
11 5  50 3740 1 1 f    11  pro^duction !pl\anning# .                          / 
11 5  50 3750 1 1 f    11  pro^duction con!tr\ol# .                           / 
11 5  50 3760 1 1 f    11  ^st\ock con'trol# .                                / 
11 5  51 3770 1 1 f    11  re^sources 'allo:c\ation# .                        / 
11 5  51 3780 1 1 f    11  ma^terials !b\uying# .                             / 
11 5  51 3790 1 1 f    11  ^O and !\M 'services# .                            / 
11 5  51 3800 1 1 f    11  com^p\uter 'services# -                            / 
11 5  51 3810 1 1 f    11  [@] ^legal and !t\ax 'services#                    / 
11 5  51 3820 1 1 f    11  ^inso'far as 'these :l\/egal 'services#            / 
11 5  51 3830 1 2 f    11  ^could be . di!vorced from the the the the         / 
11 5  51 3830 1 1 f    11  'Scottish [@:m] . :legal c\ode that [@]# .         / 
11 5  51 3840 1 1 f    11  [?@] is ^in ex!\istence# - .                       / 
11 5  51 3850 1 1 f    11  now ^this is a {v/ery 'great} pr/\oblem to 'us#    / 
11 5  52 3860 1 1 f    11  [i] in ^Sc/otland#                                 / 
11 5  52 3870 1 2 f    11  be^cause you`ve got pr/\ivate 'companies who d/o   / 
11 5  52 3870 1 1 f    11  it#                                                / 
11 5  52 3880 1 2 f    11  and you ^also have "n/\ationalized 'industries     / 
11 5  52 3880 1 1 f    11  which 'do it# .                                    / 
11 5  52 3890 1 1 f    11  there was an ^article 'quite :r\/ecently#          / 
11 5  52 3900 1 1 f    11  ^by 'Doctor J/ohn Firn#                            / 
11 5  52 3910 1 1 f    11  of . [@:m] of the ^econ/omics de{^p/artment#}#     / 
11 5  52 3920 1 1 f    11  ^of Gl/asgow Univ\ersity# -                        / 
11 5  52 3930 1 1 f    11  ^pointing /out#                                    / 
11 5  52 3940 1 1 f    11  that ^n\/ational'ized 'industries#                 / 
11 5  52 3950 1 2 f    11  were a^mongst 'some of the !greatest               / 
11 5  52 3950 1 1 f    11  c\/entral'izers of "\all#                          / 
11 5  53 3960 1 1 f    11  and the ef^f\/ect of 'that of 'course#             / 
11 5  53 3970 1 1 f    11  was to ^strip aw/ay#                               / 
11 5  53 3980 1 1 f    11  de^cision 'making _powers within !Sc\otland# -     / 
11 5  53 3990 1 1 f    11  ^if you !look at the st\eel 'industry# .           / 
11 5  53 4000 1 1 f    11  [@] ^you !see that [@] the :st\/eel 'industry# .   / 
11 5  53 4010 1 1 f    11  ^{wh\en} :n\/ationalized#                          / 
11 5  53 4020 1 1 f    11  was ^n\ot 'national'ized on a :b/asis# .           / 
11 5  53 4030 1 2 f    12  ^that [@] . the !areas 'of [dhi:] or or ^steel     / 
11 5  53 4030 1 1 f    12  'making /areas#                                    / 
11 5  54 4040 1 1 f    11  which ^had au"t/onomy#                             / 
11 5  54 4050 1 1 f    11  at ^\/one 'stage# -                                / 
11 5  54 4060 1 1 f    11  ^had 'that [at] au'tonomy main!!t\ained# . -       / 
11 5  54 4070 1 1 f    11  the ^industry was de:liberately . sh/aken 'up#     / 
11 5  54 4080 1 1 f    11  ^c/arved up# .                                     / 
11 5  54 4090 1 1 f    11  and ^put into an!other f/orm#                      / 
11 5  54 4100 1 1 f    11  of ^corporate di!v\isions# -                       / 
11 5  54 4110 1 1 f    11  as a re^sult of wh/ich#                            / 
11 5  54 4120 1 1 f    11  it ^lost a 'lot of its 'natural ef!f\iciency# .    / 
11 5  55 4130 1 1 f    11  and it ^certainly l/ost#                           / 
11 5  55 4140 1 1 f    11  a ^lot of de'cision making !!p\ower# .             / 
11 5  55 4150 1 1 mem  20  hear *hear*                                        / 
11 5  55 4160 1 2(f    11  *as a* ^{c\onsequence of . [dhi:]} !Sc\/ottish     / 
11 5  55 4160 1 1(f    11  'shake-'up#                                        / 
11 5  55 4170 1 2 f    12  we ^found that '[dhi:] . di!vision 'of '[dhi:]     / 
11 5  55 4170 1 1 f    12  ((or)) the ^pl\/anning di'vision#                  / 
11 5  55 4180 1 1 f    11  of [dhi:] ^Scottish !st\/eel 'industry# .          / 
11 5  55 4190 1 2 f    11  ^which 'had been re'sponsible for the 'planning and/ 
11 5  55 4190 1 1 f    11  de'velopment of R\/avens'craig# -                  / 
11 5  56 4200 1 2 f    11  [@: . w] ^which had !also 'worked on . :planning   / 
11 5  56 4200 1 1 f    11  pr/ojects#                                         / 
11 5  56 4210 1 1 f    11  ^for !indus'try "!\outside [@] U'nited K/ingdom# - / 
11 5  56 4220 1 1 f    11  [@] ^was [d . @] dis!!s\olved# .                   / 
11 5  56 4230 1 2 f    11  that ^these 'functions were 'taken a:way from      / 
11 5  56 4230 1 1 f    11  Sc/\otland#                                        / 
11 5  56 4240 1 1 f    11  the ^skilled /experts#                             / 
11 5  56 4250 1 1 f    11  the . [@m] . the "^/organ'izers#                   / 
11 5  56 4260 1 1 f    11  ^[dhi:] !t\echnocr/ats# .                          / 
11 5  56 4270 1 1 f    11  [@] ^found their 'services dis!!m\issed with#      / 
11 5  57 4280 1 1 f    11  and they ^had to m/ove#                            / 
11 5  57 4290 1 2 f    11  to ^other 'parts of the :British 'steel            / 
11 5  57 4290 1 1 f    11  'corpor'ation !\em'pire# -                         / 
11 5  57 4300 1 2 f    11  now ^if this is :happening 'in the                 / 
11 5  57 4300 1 1 f    11  :multi!n\/ational 'sector# .                       / 
11 5  57 4310 1 1 f    11  in [@ @] ((the)) in ((the)) ^pr/ivate 'industry# - / 
11 5  57 4320 1 1 f    11  ^if it is 'happening in :p\/ublic 'industry#       / 
11 5  57 4330 1 1 f    11  ^through the n\ational'ized 'corpor/ations# -      / 
11 5  58 4340 1 1 f    11  ^what 'sort of salv/\ation is#                     / 
11 5  58 4350 1 1 f    11  ^Sc\/otland going to 'get#                         / 
11 5  58 4360 1 1 f    11  ^out of _this par_ticular !!b\ill# - .             / 
11 5  58 4370 1 1 f    11  be^cause the !Scottish De'velopment ":\Agency#     / 
11 5  58 4380 1 1 f    11  ^which is in!t/ended# -                            / 
11 5  58 4390 1 1 f    11  [@] to ^be [dhi] :m/eans#                          / 
11 5  58 4400 1 1 f    11  ^by !wh/ich# -                                     / 
11 5  58 4410 1 1 f    11  ^econ'omic and de:cision 'making p/ower#           / 
11 5  58 4420 1 1 f    11  ^could in the !!government`s 'own in!t\entions#    / 
11 5  59 4430 1 1 f    11  ^be re'turned to Sc\otland# - .                    / 
11 5  59 4440 1 1 f    11  ^will !not have p/ower#                            / 
11 5  59 4450 1 1 f    11  ^to con!trol the ac'tivities in Sc/otland#         / 
11 5  59 4460 1 1 f    11  of the ^multinational or _private f\irms# .        / 
11 5  59 4470 1 1 ?    11  ^nor the m/\oney# -                                / 
11 5  59 4480 1 1(f    11  ^it is !n\ot going to 'have the :p/ower# .         / 
11 5  59 4490 1 2 f    11  [@] to con^trol . '[dhi:] . :national'ized         / 
11 5  59 4490 1 1 f    11  !\industries# -                                    / 
11 5  59 4500 1 1 f    11  ^th\/ese 'powers#                                  / 
11 5  60 4510 1 1 f    11  ^these [@] con!tr/olling powers#                   / 
11 5  60 4520 1 1 f    11  or ad^v/ising#                                     / 
11 5  60 4530 1 1 f    11  or ^pl/anning powers# -                            / 
11 5  60 4540 1 2 f    11  are ^going to be re{s/erved to the 'National       / 
11 5  60 4540 1 1 f    11  'Enterprise} B/\oard# - .                          / 
11 5  60 4550 1 1 f    11  but ^if we :find that in the pr/ivate s\ector#     / 
11 5  60 4560 1 1 f    11  ^\and in the 'public 'sector a"l/ike#              / 
11 5  60 4570 1 2 f    12  ^there has ![dhis] 'been . there`s . there ^has    / 
11 5  60 4570 1 1 f    12  been this !common 'central'izing ac:t\ivity# - .   / 
11 5  61 4580 1 1 f    11  of ^trans'ferring of :p/owers# .                   / 
11 5  61 4590 1 1 f    11  ^from the pe!r\iphery to the c/entre# -            / 
11 5  61 4600 1 1 f    11  ^then "!wh\at sort of . [? @] :h/elp#              / 
11 5  61 4610 1 1 f    11  or [s] . ^/aid#                                    / 
11 5  61 4620 1 1 f    11  is ^Sc\otland going to g/et# .                     / 
11 5  61 4630 1 1 f    11  from the ^National 'Enterprise :B/oard#            / 
11 5  61 4640 1 2 f    11  ^which !is in it'self 'going to be a 'centralized  / 
11 5  61 4640 1 1 f    11  b\ody# - .                                         / 
11 5  61 4650 1 2 f    11  ^which is in!tended to :\operate through'out the   / 
11 5  61 4650 1 1 f    11  United K/ingdom# -                                 / 
11 5  62 4660 1 2 f    11  which is in^tended to have a :guiding or ad:visory / 
11 5  62 4660 1 1 f    11  ef{f/ect} 'on the 'multin/ationals# .              / 
11 5  62 4670 1 2 f    11  ^or on the 'nationalized {\industries ((in))}      / 
11 5  62 4670 1 1 f    11  _their oper\ations# .                              / 
11 5  62 4680 1 1 f    11  ^by !nature of the ":b\east# -                     / 
11 5  62 4690 1 1 f    11  ^it 'its/\elf#                                     / 
11 5  62 4700 1 1 f    11  is ^going to be a :c\entralizer# - - -             / 
11 5  62 4710 1 2 f    13  and ^what is ^what ^what is the !p\urpose of       / 
11 5  62 4710 1 1 f    13  'that# .                                           / 
11 5  63 4720 1 2 f    11  ((I mean)) the ^whole "_w/\orry in 'Scotland at the/ 
11 5  63 4720 1 1 f    11  'present 'time# .                                  / 
11 5  63 4730 1 1 f    11  is to ^try and !bring 'back !p\ower# -             / 
11 5  63 4740 1 2 f    11  ^this is 'what the :government`s own :policy of    / 
11 5  63 4740 1 1 f    11  "devol/ution#                                      / 
11 5  63 4750 1 1 f    11  ^[?]is sup'posed to !!m\ean# -                     / 
11 5  63 4760 1 1 f    11  ^it`s sup!posed to m/ean#                          / 
11 5  63 4770 1 2 f    11  to ^take "!power a'way from :this 'place here at   / 
11 5  63 4770 1 1 f    11  W/estminster# .                                    / 
11 5  64 4780 1 1 f    11  ^take !power a'way from :Wh/itehall# -             / 
11 5  64 4790 1 1 f    11  ^take 'these !f=unctions a_way#                    / 
11 5  64 4800 1 1 f    11  ^and !trans_fer them 'back to Sc\otland# - -       / 
11 5  64 4810 1 1 f    11  ^and in!d/eed#                                     / 
11 5  64 4820 1 1 f    11  ^if 'you !set [dhi:] :government`s in:t/entions# - / 
11 5  64 4830 1 1 f    11  ^in the in"!d/ustrial 'field#                      / 
11 5  64 4840 1 3 f    11  [?] a^gainst their in!tentions '[?]in '[dhi]       / 
11 5  64 4840 1 2 f    11  po:litical and ad:ministrative 'devo!l\/utionary   / 
11 5  64 4840 1 1 f    11  'field# .                                          / 
11 5  65 4850 1 2 f    11  you ^find that they _are com_pletely at            / 
11 5  65 4850 1 1 f    11  "v\ariance# -                                      / 
11 5  65 4860 1 2 f    11  "^if there is an in:tention to :set up the         / 
11 5  65 4860 1 1 f    11  'Scottish As:s/embly# .                            / 
11 5  65 4870 1 1 f    11  then you`ve ^got to give that "b/ody#              / 
11 5  65 4880 1 1 f    11  ^something to d\o# -                               / 
11 5  65 4890 1 1 f    11  this ^after!n/oon#                                 / 
11 5  65 4900 1 1 f    11  ^I !raised with the 'Prime M/inister#              / 
11 5  65 4910 1 2 f    11  the ^fact that [dhi:] :Scottish . Trades 'Union    / 
11 5  65 4910 1 1 f    11  C/ongress# .                                       / 
11 5  65 4920 1 2 f    11  the ^Scottish !Council ((in)) De:velopment and     / 
11 5  65 4920 1 1 f    11  /Industry# -                                       / 
11 5  66 4930 1 1 f    11  ^both 'repre!s\enting in their w/ay#               / 
11 5  66 4940 1 1 f    11  ^different [@m] :/aspects#                         / 
11 5  66 4950 1 1 f    11  of in^dustrial ac:tivity in Sc/otland# .           / 
11 5  66 4960 1 1 f    11  ^both "wanted :econ'omic p\/ower# -                / 
11 5  66 4970 1 1 f    11  to "^go to the 'Scottish As!s\embly# -             / 
11 5  66 4980 1 2 f    11  and of ^course 'one of the !best ways of :d\/oing  / 
11 5  66 4980 1 1 f    11  'that#                                             / 
11 5  66 4990 1 2 f    11  will ^be to have a !strong 'Scottish de'velopment  / 
11 5  66 4990 1 1 f    11  :\/agency# .                                       / 
11 5  67 5000 1 1 f    11  ^which would be !\/answerable#                     / 
11 5  67 5010 1 1 f    11  to the ^Scottish As!!s\embly# - -                  / 
11 5  67 5020 1 1 f    11  but ^what sort of !p\ower# -                       / 
11 5  67 5030 1 1 f    11  ^can the !Scottish As'sembly "h/ave#               / 
11 5  67 5040 1 1 f    11  ^over the 'National !\Enterprise 'Board# -         / 
11 5  67 5050 1 1 f    11  ^\if the National 'Enterprise B/oard#              / 
11 5  67 5060 1 1 f    11  as ^it [@] h/as#                                   / 
11 5  67 5070 1 1 f    11  ^under 'this b/ill#                                / 
11 5  67 5080 1 1 f    11  the ^statutory :p/ower#                            / 
11 5  67 5090 1 1 f    11  to ^inter_f/ere#                                   / 
11 5  68 5100 1 2 f    11  with . ^various im!portant 'aspects of :industry in/ 
11 5  68 5100 1 1 f    11  Sc\otland#                                         / 
11 5  68 5110 1 1 f    11  de^cides to :\exercise that 'power# -              / 
11 5  68 5120 1 1 f    11  ^what . c\/ompetence#                              / 
11 5  68 5130 1 1 f    11  would the ^Scottish As'sembly h/ave#               / 
11 5  68 5140 1 2 f    11  to ^call the 'National 'Enterprise !Board . to     / 
11 5  68 5140 1 1 f    11  !!t\ask# .                                         / 
11 5  68 5150 1 2 f    11  or ^is the 'government :going to _say that _we are / 
11 5  68 5150 1 1 f    11  !going to :have a :National 'Enterprise B/oard#    / 
11 5  69 5160 1 1 f    11  which ^on the "!/one 'hand# .                      / 
11 5  69 5170 1 1 f    11  will ^have [@m] . :p=owers#                        / 
11 5  69 5180 1 2 f    11  [?] or will be ^answerable to :Scotland            / 
11 5  69 5180 1 1 f    11  ![?]insof/ar#                                      / 
11 5  69 5190 1 1 f    11  [?]as it pur^sues 'Scottish ob:j\ectives# - .      / 
11 5  69 5200 1 1 f    11  and ^it will be re:sp\/onsible#                    / 
11 5  69 5210 1 1 f    11  to ^[dhi: . @] !Minister of 'Industry in Sc/otland#/ 
11 5  69 5220 1 2 f    11  the ^chief ex'ecutive or 'Prime Minister of        / 
11 5  69 5220 1 1 f    11  Sc/otland#                                         / 
11 5  69 5230 1 1 f    11  [?]or the ^Secretary of 'State for Sc/otland#      / 
11 5  70 5240 1 2 f    11  which^ever the ex:ecutive 'arm of 'government is   / 
11 5  70 5240 1 1 f    11  going to !b\e# -                                   / 
11 5  70 5250 1 1 f    11  and ^yet at the !same t/ime#                       / 
11 5  70 5260 1 1 f    11  be re^sponsible to the :Minister of /Industry#     / 
11 5  70 5270 1 1 f    11  ^[?]in this !!H\ouse# - .                          / 
11 5  70 5280 1 1 f    11  ((I mean)) ^that`s going to :place the ":B/oard#   / 
11 5  70 5290 1 1 f    11  ^in a . [? ?] a !schizo!phr\enic situ'ation# - -   / 
11 5  71 5300 1 1 f    11  I mean the ^old "b/\iblical {^[aed]:\adage#}#      / 
11 5  71 5310 1 1 f    11  ^s/\urely 'is#                                     / 
11 5  71 5320 1 1 f    11  ^strong en/ough#                                   / 
11 5  71 5330 1 1 f    11  that ^no 'man can 'serve two m/\asters# - .        / 
11 5  71 5340 1 1 f    11  ^yet we are !going to 'find :h\ere#                / 
11 5  71 5350 1 2 f    11  that there`s ^g/\oing to be a 'National 'Enterprise/ 
11 5  71 5350 1 1 f    11  B/oard# -                                          / 
11 5  71 5360 1 2 f    11  ^which 'will be exp/\ected to 'do things in        / 
11 5  71 5360 1 1 f    11  'Scotland#                                         / 
11 5  71 5370 1 2 f    12  and it`s ^no [m@?] . ^it`s !no s/\imple 'matter    / 
11 5  71 5370 1 1 f    12  th/is#                                             / 
11 5  72 5380 1 2 f    11  be^cause the !government can 'shrug it 'off and    / 
11 5  72 5380 1 1 f    11  s=ay# -                                            / 
11 5  72 5390 1 1 f    11  that [@m] . the ^National 'Enterprise B/oard#      / 
11 5  72 5400 1 1 f    11  will be ^able to 'follow 'through its obj\ectives# / 
11 5  72 5410 1 1 f    11  as ^seen 'by the :Minister of /Industry#           / 
11 5  72 5420 1 1 f    11  and ^seen 'by P\arliament# -                       / 
11 5  72 5430 1 1 f    11  but of ^course - to :s/ome ex'tent#                / 
11 5  72 5440 1 3 f    12  [@] of ^course the !legislative and . [sovrnt - .  / 
11 5  72 5440 1 2 f    12  @] ^if the . :honourable 'gentleman will al'low me / 
11 5  72 5440 1 1 f    12  com'plete 'my [@] . p\aragraph# - -                / 
11 5  73 5450 1 1 f    11  it ^was to s/ay#                                   / 
11 5  73 5460 1 1 f    11  that ^if they in!t\ended#                          / 
11 5  73 5470 1 1 f    11  to ^follow 'through its ob:j\/ective# -            / 
11 5  73 5480 1 1 f    11  ^of [@:m] - - - !being a ![mi:ni] a a :m\/edium# . / 
11 5  73 5490 1 1 f    11  ^for 'econ'omic . :[ek@] :economic :pl\anning#     / 
11 5  73 5500 1 1 f    11  ^[?]in'side the U'nited K\/ingdom# .               / 
11 5  74 5510 1 1 f    11  ^then of 'course it 'might not be al":l\/owed#     / 
11 5  74 5520 1 1 f    11  by the ^Scottish 'people to !!d\o that# -          / 
11 5  74 5530 1 1 f    11  ^and [@] !civil :s\ervants#                        / 
11 5  74 5540 1 1 f    11  [@] or [@:] ^or the !emplo!y\ees of the . NE/B#    / 
11 5  74 5550 1 1 f    11  will be in a ^very d/\ifficult 'situ'ation# .      / 
11 5  74 5560 1 2 f    11  when it ^comes [?] to the 'point of                / 
11 5  74 5560 1 1 f    11  :answerab\ility#                                   / 
11 5  74 5570 1 1 f    11  to ^whom 'they 'are resp\onsible# .                / 
11 5  75 5580 1 1 a    11  ^Doc*tor Br/ay#*                                   / 
11 5  75 5590 1 2 g    11  *((the)) ^honourable :gentleman* !takes a !very dim/ 
11 5  75 5590 1 1 g    11  :view of de:m\ocracy#                              / 
11 5  75 5600 1 2 g    11  there`s ^nothing a'gainst a :master 'having two    / 
11 5  75 5600 1 1 g    11  :s\ervants# .                                      / 
11 5  75 5610 1 2 g    11  and ^why should 'not the 'Scottish 'people be      / 
11 5  75 5610 1 1 g    11  :s\erved#                                          / 
11 5  75 5620 1 1 g    11  by ^both the 'National 'Enterprise _B/oard#        / 
11 5  75 5630 1 1 g    11  ^\and the 'Scottish de'velopment 'agency# .        / 
11 5  76 5640 1 2 f    12  ^well of !course [@] I`m im!pressed 'by '[dhi:]    / 
11 5  76 5640 1 1 f    12  sort of [@:m] . the the the the ^qu\/estion#       / 
11 5  76 5650 1 1 f    11  but of ^c=ourse# .                                 / 
11 5  76 5660 1 2 f    11  [@] it ^brings you !back to 'the the :\answer      / 
11 5  76 5660 1 1 f    11  th/en#                                             / 
11 5  76 5670 1 2 f    11  to ^wh\/om would 'these [ri] 'servants 'be         / 
11 5  76 5670 1 1 f    11  re"sp\onsible# - -                                 / 
11 5  76 5680 1 2 f    12  [@] ((are)) the ^servants to it`s the "^s\ervant   / 
11 5  76 5680 1 1 f    12  you 'see#                                          / 
11 5  76 5690 1 1 f    11  the ^National !\Enter'prise 'Board# .              / 
11 5  77 5700 2 1 f    21  [@] ^which                                         / 
11 5  77 5710 1 1 ?    11  *((^it`ll 'be the !g\overnment#))*                 / 
11 5  77 5700 1 1(f    11  *is !going to :b\e#* .                             / 
11 5  77 5720 1 1 f    11  ^in :this d/\ifficult 'situ'ation#                 / 
11 5  77 5730 1 1 f    11  be^cause ![?]it 'is the !!s\ervant# -              / 
11 5  77 5740 1 1 f    11  ^but it "!w\ill 'have 'two 'masters#               / 
11 5  77 5750 1 2 f    11  it ^will 'have '[dhi:] . :Secretary of 'State for  / 
11 5  77 5750 1 1 f    11  :{\/Industry} "!\/and 'this 'House# - .            / 
11 5  77 5760 1 1 f    11  ^and [@] 'it will :\/also#                         / 
11 5  77 5770 1 1 f    11  [?] ^possibly 'have '[dhi:] po":s/ition#           / 
11 5  78 5780 1 1 f    11  ^[?]of being re"!sp\onsible# .                     / 
11 5  78 5790 1 1 f    11  ^to a :Scottish 'Minister of [?]/Industry#         / 
11 5  78 5800 1 2 f    11  ^who in !turn will be re'sponsible to the 'Scottish/ 
11 5  78 5800 1 1 f    11  Ass\embly#                                         / 
11 5  78 5810 1 1 e    11  ^on that p/oint#                                   / 
11 5  78 5820 1 1 e    11  ^would my . 'honourable 'friend give w\ay#         / 
11 5  78 5830 1 1 e    11  I`m *^very :gr\/ateful#*                           / 
11 5  78 5840 1 1 a    11  *((Mr ^W\/igley#))*                                / 
11 5  79 5850 1 1 e    11  . he ^may be aw/\are that#                         / 
11 5  79 5860 1 1 e    11  ^in the comm/\ittee 'meeting in f/act#             / 
11 5  79 5870 1 1 e    11  ^this _point !was 'brought !\up# .                 / 
11 5  79 5880 1 1 e    11  that ^where the t/\erm . {^Secretary of St/\ate#}# / 
11 5  79 5890 1 1 e    11  ((was)) ^written {/\into the} :\/industry 'bill#   / 
11 5  79 5900 1 1 e    11  the ^question was /asked# .                        / 
11 5  79 5910 1 2 e    11  ^whether it ((had)) re:ferred in 'fact to the      / 
11 5  79 5910 1 1 e    11  :Secretary of 'State for :\/Industry# .            / 
11 5  79 5920 1 2 e    11  ^or . 'whether it ((was)) an :all-em!br\/acing     / 
11 5  79 5920 1 1 e    11  'term#                                             / 
11 5  80 5930 1 2 e    11  in^cluding the _Secretary of _State for !Wales and / 
11 5  80 5930 1 1 e    11  Sc/\otland# .                                      / 
11 5  80 5940 1 1 e    11  and the ^answer !g\iven w/as#                      / 
11 5  80 5950 1 1 e    11  that it was an ^all-embr/\acing 'term# .           / 
11 5  80 5960 1 1 e    11  in ^which c\/ase# .                                / 
11 5  80 5970 1 3 e    12  it`s a ^[tr/\ipli ?] a ^tr/\iplicate               / 
11 5  80 5970 1 2 e    12  re'sponsi'bility {[?] of the ^National 'Enterprise / 
11 5  80 5970 1 1 e    12  B\oard#}#                                          / 
11 5  80 5980 1 1 e    11  which ^strikes 'me as t/\otally im'possible#       / 
11 5  81 5990 1 1 mem  11  (laugh) ^y/\es#                                    / 
11 5  81 6000 1 2 ?    11  ^everything`s :filled in in :tr\iplicate I         / 
11 5  81 6000 1 1 ?    11  sup_pose#                                          / 
11 5  81 6010 1 1 f    11  ^well !I I`m !very :gr\ateful#                     / 
11 5  81 6020 1 1 f    11  ^to _the [o] !honourable :m\/ember#                / 
11 5  81 6030 1 2 f    12  [@] ^who "s/\erved on '[dhi: @ . @] ^on the        / 
11 5  81 6030 1 1 f    12  :Industry Com:m\/ittee#                            / 
11 5  81 6040 1 2 f    11  which ^I I I !think [d@] . de:serves a . a !medal  / 
11 5  81 6040 1 1 f    11  for . /\any 'member#                               / 
11 5  81 6050 1 1 f    11  of which^/\ever 'party# -                          / 
11 5  82 6060 1 1 f    11  for the the "^work which they "!d\id#              / 
11 5  82 6070 1 1 f    11  [@: o] on ^that par:ticular !m\arathon# - .        / 
11 5  82 6080 1 2 f    11  [@] ^but I I I 'think it [@] :it [@:] en!hances the/ 
11 5  82 6080 1 1 f    11  'point that I was m\aking#                         / 
11 5  82 6090 1 1 f    11  that ^here you !\/are 'going to#                   / 
11 5  82 6100 1 1 f    11  ^h/ead# .                                          / 
11 5  82 6110 1 2 f    11  ^{n\ot _only _for} [?]ad!!m\/inistrative           / 
11 5  82 6110 1 1 f    11  'conflict# .                                       / 
11 5  82 6120 1 2 f    11  but you`re ^likely to 'head . [@:] :into           / 
11 5  82 6120 1 1 f    11  !consti!t\utional 'conflict#                       / 
11 5  83 6130 1 1 f    11  be^cause !!one of the ":v\ery first {^th\ings#}#   / 
11 5  83 6140 1 2 f    11  that "^any :Scottish As:sembly :worth its :salt    / 
11 5  83 6140 1 1 f    11  will :d\/o# .                                      / 
11 5  83 6150 1 1 f    11  re^g\ardless of {^p\arty#}# -                      / 
11 5  83 6160 1 2 f    11  is to ^try and get their :[hendz] 'on [?]/\any     / 
11 5  83 6160 1 1 f    11  par'ticular {^b/\ody#}# .                          / 
11 5  83 6170 1 2 f    12  [@] which ^tries 'to [@m] . con^duct in_dustrial   / 
11 5  83 6170 1 1 f    12  :p\/olicies#                                       / 
11 5  84 6180 1 1 f    11  ^which !may 'be 'at v/ariance#                     / 
11 5  84 6190 1 1 f    11  with ^what 'it 'seeks to d\o#                      / 
11 5  84 6200 1 2 f    11  [?] and ^I will 'make it 'quite :cl/\ear {to       / 
11 5  84 6200 1 1 f    11  ^[dhi:] . !Secretary of St\ate#}#                  / 
11 5  84 6210 1 1 f    11  that ^[dhi:] !Scottish As:sembly "!m\ust# -        / 
11 5  84 6220 1 1 f    11  [ba:] ^[?]of its !n\/ature#                        / 
11 5  84 6230 1 1 f    11  be a^gainst 'centraliz!\ation#                     / 
11 5  84 6240 1 1 mem  11  ((hear)) ^h\ear#                                   / 
11 5  84 6250 1 2 f    11  I ^mean I the the !this [@] "!thread . [o] 'of [@] / 
11 5  84 6250 1 1 f    11  con":cern and of phil:=osophy# .                   / 
11 5  85 6260 1 1 f    11  ^is e!merging 'from !!so many 'different c/amps#   / 
11 5  85 6270 1 2 f    11  and "^so many different ":spr\ings in 'Scotland at / 
11 5  85 6270 1 1 f    11  the _moment#                                       / 
11 5  85 6280 1 2 f    11  that it`s ^really ![wor @] !welling 'up into a     / 
11 5  85 6280 1 1 f    11  t\orrent# -                                        / 
11 5  85 6290 1 1 f    11  and it`s ^one r/\eason of c/ourse#                 / 
11 5  85 6300 1 3 f    11  why the ^government in it_self is !bringing        / 
11 5  85 6300 1 2 f    11  'forward . [@] 'policies 'for :Parlia!m\entary     / 
11 5  85 6300 1 1 f    11  'devol'ution# .                                    / 
11 5  86 6310 1 2 f    11  [@] as ^well as 'for [?]ad:m\inistrative           / 
11 5  86 6310 1 1 f    11  'devol'ution# - -                                  / 
11 5  86 6320 1 1 f    11  [@] ^but !if I !could go :on 'to "!d\eal 'with#    / 
11 5  86 6330 1 2 f    11  ((the)) ^some of the "!{\other 'aspects} :which the/ 
11 5  86 6330 1 1 f    11  :this 'bill :r\aises# - .                          / 
11 5  86 6340 1 2 f    11  you "^h\ave 'got the 'Scottish de'velopment        / 
11 5  86 6340 1 1 f    11  'agency# .                                         / 
11 5  86 6350 1 1 f    11  ^now !that b/ody# .                                / 
11 5  86 6360 1 1 f    11  [@] at the ^present m/oment#                       / 
11 5  87 6370 1 2 f    11  as was ^mentioned at the :second !reading of the   / 
11 5  87 6370 1 1 f    11  :bill 'last :w/eek# .                              / 
11 5  87 6380 1 1 f    11  [@] ^is 'going to 'be equ/ipped#                   / 
11 5  87 6390 1 1 f    11  ^with 'either !tw/o hundred 'million _pounds#      / 
11 5  87 6400 1 1 f    11  ^or !thr\ee 'hundred _million 'pounds# .           / 
11 5  87 6410 1 1 f    11  ^over an !\indefinite p/eriod# .                   / 
11 5  87 6420 1 3 f    11  [@:m] . de^pending upon !when 'and :if the         / 
11 5  87 6420 1 2 f    11  'government comes :back 'for [@] for the [m . @]   / 
11 5  87 6420 1 1 f    11  'money to :P\arliament#                            / 
11 5  88 6430 1 1 f    11  ( . laughs) ^if ind/eed#                           / 
11 5  88 6440 2 1 f    21  *the ^government* is pre!p\/ared                   / 
11 5  88 6450 1 1 ?    11  *((1 syll ^won`t g/\et it#))*                      / 
11 5  88 6440 1 1(f    11  to come 'back#                                     / 
11 5  88 6460 1 1 f    20  [@]                                                / 
11 5  88 6470 1 1 ?    20  +((several sylls))+                                / 
11 5  88 6480 1 1 f    11  and +^try and "!g\et 'money from _Parliament#      / 
11 5  88 6490 1 1 f    11  at ^that !st\age#+ -                               / 
11 5  88 6500 1 1 f    11  [@] ^but of 'course !in Sc/\otland#                / 
11 5  88 6510 1 2 f    11  [@] ^once ((we))`ve !got the 'Scottish Ass\/embly  / 
11 5  88 6510 1 1 f    11  ap'pearing#                                        / 
11 5  89 6520 1 1 f    12  ^then of _course . ^you will 'get '[dhi:] dem/and# / 
11 5  89 6530 1 2 f    11  ^for con:trol 'over :access _to . '[dhi:] .        / 
11 5  89 6530 1 1 f    11  :r\/evenues# .                                     / 
11 5  89 6540 1 1 f    11  [@] ^which will be 'coming from !\oil# -           / 
11 5  89 6550 1 1 f    11  and of ^course . I I !know the :f\eeling#          / 
11 5  89 6560 1 2 f    11  that ^must 'come from :(([m]))\any 'honourable     / 
11 5  89 6560 1 1 f    11  m/embers#                                          / 
11 5  89 6570 1 1 f    11  ^of [@m] . !other p/arties#                        / 
11 5  89 6580 1 1 f    11  ((in)) ^saying "!=ah# .                            / 
11 5  89 6590 1 2 f    11  the ^Scottish 'National 'Party is :off '[?]on .    / 
11 5  89 6590 1 1 f    11  :one of its [@:] :well-'worn "!tr\acks# -          / 
11 5  90 6600 1 1 f    11  [@] ^well-'worn it _may :b/\e#                     / 
11 5  90 6610 1 2 f    11  but ^I can as!sure '[dhi: ?@:] ((the)) :honourable / 
11 5  90 6610 1 1 f    11  :members of this !H\ouse#                          / 
11 5  90 6620 1 2 f    11  that it`s a ^very !popular 'track in _Scotland     / 
11 5  90 6620 1 1 f    11  in!!d/\eed# .                                      / 
11 5  90 6630 1 2 f    11  ^but as 'I((`ve)) . 'mentioned to the 'Secretary of/ 
11 5  90 6630 1 1 f    11  'State [@:] be'fore his 'change of :f/unction#     / 
11 5  90 6640 1 2 f    11  ^from [dhi:] pe!tr\oleum . [@] b/ill .             / 
11 5  90 6640 1 1 f    11  {com^m/ittee#}#                                    / 
11 5  91 6650 1 2 f    11  ^to [dhi: @m - - ~ . @] 'to the in":dustrial       / 
11 5  91 6650 1 1 f    11  ":f\/unctions# -                                   / 
11 5  91 6660 1 1 f    11  [@] ^that [@: - ?] !this qu\/estion#               / 
11 5  91 6670 1 1 f    11  ^of . !access to ":oil "_r\/evenues#               / 
11 5  91 6680 1 2 f    11  is ^not . 'just [wa] 'a . a :matter which is being / 
11 5  91 6680 1 1 f    11  :r/aised# .                                        / 
11 5  91 6690 1 1 f    11  ^inside the U_nited !K\ingdom# -                   / 
11 5  91 6700 1 2 f    11  it`s ^happening in "!C\anada at {this ^present     / 
11 5  91 6700 1 1 f    11  t\ime#}# -                                         / 
11 5  92 6710 1 1 f    11  where ^N\ewfoundland#                              / 
11 5  92 6720 1 2 f    11  is de^nying the 'right of the 'federal 'government / 
11 5  92 6720 1 1 f    11  of C/anada# -                                      / 
11 5  92 6730 1 1 f    11  [@] ^to [?] !have '[?ei] . !sh/are# -              / 
11 5  92 6740 1 1 f    11  ^of '[di: . ?@] !any [?] /oil#                     / 
11 5  92 6750 1 1 f    11  or ^natural g/as#                                  / 
11 5  92 6760 1 1 f    11  which ^may be dis'covered ![?]off-sh/ore#          / 
11 5  92 6770 1 1 f    11  [?] of ^N\ewfoundland# -                           / 
11 5  92 6780 1 2 f    12  it`s ^happening in [k] Aus"^tr\alia at the 'present/ 
11 5  92 6780 1 1 f    12  'time#                                             / 
11 5  93 6790 1 1 f    11  ^where the 'government of "W\estern Aus'tralia#    / 
11 5  93 6800 1 1 f    11  has ^uni!l\aterally# -                             / 
11 5  93 6810 1 2 f    11  con^firmed !oil and 'natural 'gas _explo!r\ation   / 
11 5  93 6810 1 1 f    11  'licences#                                         / 
11 5  93 6820 1 2 f    11  a^gainst the 'will of the :federal 'government . of/ 
11 5  93 6820 1 1 f    11  Aus:tr\alia# - -                                   / 
11 5  93 6830 1 2 f    11  and [@] . ^it is 'going to be a _question that will/ 
11 5  93 6830 1 1 f    11  !r\ise#                                            / 
11 5  93 6840 1 1 f    11  and of ^course the !very :f\/irst 'point#          / 
11 5  94 6850 1 1 f    11  that ^anybody in 'Scotland will :s\/ay# .          / 
11 5  94 6860 1 1 f    11  ^is !where is the 'money !g\oing to# - .           / 
11 5  94 6870 1 1 f    11  ^and [@] _it will in!s\ist#                        / 
11 5  94 6880 1 1 f    11  that the ^money will g/o#                          / 
11 5  94 6890 1 1 f    11  to the ^Scottish De'velopment !\Agency# .          / 
11 5  94 6900 1 2 f    11  and [@] . "^\any 'government . {which is in ^power / 
11 5  94 6900 1 1 f    11  at 'that t\ime#}# .                                / 
11 5  94 6910 1 2 f    11  [@] ^will !face !very ":str\ong . {[@] ^pressure   / 
11 5  94 6910 1 1 f    11  in:d\eed#}#                                        / 
11 5  95 6920 1 1 f    11  ^fr\/om the 'Scottish 'people#                     / 
11 5  95 6930 1 1 f    11  ^\/and the 'Scottish As'sembly#                    / 
11 5  95 6940 1 1 f    11  re^gardless of :p\olitics# -                       / 
11 5  95 6950 1 2 f    11  [@:m] ^to [@m] - . !see that this 'money 'goes .   / 
11 5  95 6950 1 1 f    11  [@] . _for 'Scottish p\urposes# .                  / 
11 5  95 6960 1 1 f    11  [@ @m] ((of)) ^c=ourse#                            / 
11 5  95 6970 1 1 f    11  [@] . you ^s=ee#                                   / 
11 5  95 6980 1 2 f    11  ^one of the 'things that [@] :never 'fails to      / 
11 5  95 6980 1 1 f    11  [?]a:m\/aze 'me#                                   / 
11 5  95 6990 1 2 f    11  is the ^way in 'which . the !government 'takes for / 
11 5  95 6990 1 1 f    11  :gr\anted# .                                       / 
11 5  96 7000 1 1 f    11  that ^if it 'sets \up#                             / 
11 5  96 7010 1 1 f    11  [@] a ^Scottish As:s\embly# -                      / 
11 5  96 7020 1 2 f    11  that the ^Scottish As'sembly :say if it 'were      / 
11 5  96 7020 1 1 f    11  con'trolled 'by . [@] the :L\abour 'Party# -       / 
11 5  96 7030 1 1 f    11  would im^mediately !fit /in# .                     / 
11 5  96 7040 1 2 f    11  with the "^{p\/olicies} which *:th\/is 'House      / 
11 5  96 7040 1 1 f    11  !!w\anted#                                         / 
11 5  96 7050 1 1 mem  11  *( - laugh) ((^all r/ight 'sir#))                  / 
11 5  97 7060 1 1 mem  20  (laugh)*                                           / 
11 5  97 7070 1 2 f    12  be^cause "^/\or if it were a* Cons/ervative        / 
11 5  97 7070 1 1 f    12  'government#                                       / 
11 5  97 7080 1 2 f    11  that it`d ^fit in with what_ever the Con!servative / 
11 5  97 7080 1 1 f    11  "!g/\overnment 'wanted# -                          / 
11 5  97 7090 1 2 f    11  in ^fact [@:] the the the the the :problem is      / 
11 5  97 7090 1 1 f    11  'quite d\ifferent#                                 / 
11 5  97 7100 1 1 f    11  be^cause '[dhi:] "!L\abour ad'minis'tration# -     / 
11 5  97 7110 1 1 f    11  [@] in the ^Scottish Ass\embly#                    / 
11 5  98 7120 1 1 f    11  if [@] if ^if it ex/ists# .                        / 
11 5  98 7130 1 1 f    11  [@] ^would . !auto!m\atically#                     / 
11 5  98 7140 1 1 f    11  in "^m\y 'view#                                    / 
11 5  98 7150 1 1 f    11  and ^very !n\aturally# .                           / 
11 5  98 7160 1 1 f    11  ^s\eek to 'bring pr/essure#                        / 
11 5  98 7170 1 1 f    11  to ^gain the m\aximum b/enefit#                    / 
11 5  98 7180 1 1 f    11  for ^{[b/@uths]} p/eople#                          / 
11 5  98 7190 1 1 f    11  ^who had 'put them !!th\ere# .                     / 
11 5  98 7200 1 2 f    11  the e^lectors - !of the 'Scottish As'sembly        / 
11 5  98 7200 1 1 f    11  it*s\elf#*                                         / 
11 5  99 7210 1 1 ?    11  *Con*^s/\ervative((s))#                            / 
11 5  99 7220 1 1(f    11  and ^this !!l\eads us#                             / 
11 5  99 7230 1 1 f    11  ^into '[dhi:] :very !d\ifficult [@m]# .            / 
11 5  99 7240 1 1 f    11  [@] ^situ/ation 'then#                             / 
11 5  99 7250 1 1 f    11  ^[?]of the !National 'Enterprise B\oard# .         / 
11 5  99 7260 1 2 f    11  [@] ^which is . [? @] :going to 'operate in        / 
11 5  99 7260 1 1 f    11  Sc\otland# -                                       / 
11 5  99 7270 1 1 f    11  "^n=ow# .                                          / 
11 5  99 7280 1 2 f    11  ^if we 'look at 'this [? @] :from an'other         / 
11 5  99 7280 1 1 f    11  v\iew'point# .                                     / 
11 5  99 7290 1 1 f    11  ^here we 'have :two b\odies# .                     / 
11 5  99 7300 1 2 f    11  ^which are re!sponsible 'for - - .                 / 
11 5  99 7300 1 1 f    11  ad:ministr/ation#                                  / 
11 5 100 7310 1 1 f    11  ^of [@] in!dustrial 'act\ivity# -                  / 
11 5 100 7320 1 1 f    11  they ^cannot but h/elp# .                          / 
11 5 100 7330 1 1 f    11  ^c/ome# - -                                        / 
11 5 100 7340 1 1 f    11  [?@] to ^anim/osity#                               / 
11 5 100 7350 1 1 f    11  or ^be at v/ariance#                               / 
11 5 100 7360 1 1 f    11  ^one with the \other# - .                          / 
11 5 100 7370 1 1 f    11  ^it [@] !may be !h\/oped of 'course#               / 
11 5 100 7380 1 1 f    11  ^that [@] !this sort of [@:] un_fr/iendliness#     / 
11 5 100 7390 1 1 f    11  ^or the "!{cl/ash} of re:sponsib/ilities# .        / 
11 5 100 7400 1 1 f    11  [@] ^will el\ide# - .                              / 
11 5 100 7410 1 1 f    11  and "^certainly it 'may be p/ossible#              / 
11 5 101 7420 1 1 f    11  ^by ne'goti\ation# .                               / 
11 5 101 7430 1 1 f    11  to pre^vent 'points of fr\iction#                  / 
11 5 101 7440 1 1 f    11  ^from [@ . ?@] 'getting [@] _too . h\ot# -         / 
11 5 101 7450 1 1 f    11  ((be^fore)) the 'honourable 'gentleman ((steps /up#/ 
11 5 101 7460 1 1 f    21  ^would 'he))                                       / 
11 5 101 7470 1 1 ?    21  I`m ^very gr/ateful *((several sylls))*            / 
11 5 101 7480 1 1 a    11  *Sir ^Raymond G/ower#*                             / 
11 5 102 7490 1 1 h    11  ^[h@z] it oc:c\/urred to 'him# .                   / 
11 5 102 7500 1 1 h    11  because ^this [@] ap'plies !\equally#              / 
11 5 102 7510 1 1 h    11  to ^all 'parts of the U'nited :K\/ingdom# -        / 
11 5 102 7520 1 3 h    12  ^that . !if you . ^if he con'fines the ac:tivities / 
11 5 102 7520 1 2 h    12  '[o] . of '[dhi:] of the :main auth'ority to       / 
11 5 102 7520 1 1 h    12  !\/England# .                                      / 
11 5 102 7530 1 2 h    11  [ae] ^and [@] !then . !leaves . '[dhi:]            / 
11 5 102 7530 1 1 h    11  de:v\elopment [@] auth/orities# .                  / 
11 5 102 7540 1 1 h    11  in ^Scotland and W/ales# .                         / 
11 5 102 7550 1 2 h    11  [@] ^to . _do !all the de'velopment in :those !two / 
11 5 102 7550 1 1 h    11  'parts of the U'nited K\ingdom# -                  / 
11 5 103 7560 1 1 h    11  that in ^that c/ase# -                             / 
11 5 103 7570 1 1 h    11  the the ^three auth/orities will be com"p\eting# - / 
11 5 103 7580 1 2 h    11  ^and the !much {str\onger} - . re:{s\ources} of the/ 
11 5 103 7580 1 1 h    11  !\/English 'body#                                  / 
11 5 103 7590 1 1 h    11  would ^tend to pre!v\ail# .                        / 
11 5 103 7600 1 1 h    11  ^so that it !may be an ad"!v\antage#               / 
11 5 103 7610 1 1 h    11  to ^Wales 'and to . !Scotland re:sp\/ectively# .   / 
11 5 103 7620 1 1 h    11  to ^have . an auth:\/ority# .                      / 
11 5 104 7630 1 1 h    11  which whose ^wr\/it will 'run#                     / 
11 5 104 7640 1 1 h    11  through^out the U'nited :K\ingdom# -               / 
11 5 104 7650 1 1 h    11  ^[h@z] it occ\urred to him#                        / 
11 5 104 7660 1 1 a    11  Mr ^Gordon W\ilson#                                / 
11 5 104 7670 1 1 f    11  [@] ^y\es Mr '[depju:t @] Sp/eaker#                / 
11 5 104 7680 1 1 f    11  ^this 'point [@:] of 'course [@] . _n\/aturally#   / 
11 5 104 7690 1 1 f    11  ^\always 'must oc'cur#                             / 
11 5 104 7700 1 2 f    11  to ^anyone 'in in what:ever _realm of 'operations  / 
11 5 104 7700 1 1 f    11  they d/\o#                                         / 
11 5 105 7710 1 2 f    12  in ^fact !that in . ^that 'has 'been the           / 
11 5 105 7710 1 1 f    12  :funda'mental phil:\osophy# .                      / 
11 5 105 7720 1 1 f    11  ^in !favour '[?]of !l/arger 'units# .              / 
11 5 105 7730 1 1 f    11  in ^favour 'of [@:] . !in_creasing in _s/ize# .    / 
11 5 105 7740 1 1 f    11  ^in !favour '[?]of ":r/ational'izing# .            / 
11 5 105 7750 1 1 f    11  ^in !favour of :cost {b/enefit [@:]} . b/enefits#  / 
11 5 105 7760 1 1 f    11  ^from . [@ sh] !cutting sh/ort#                    / 
11 5 105 7770 1 1 f    11  ^s=ay#                                             / 
11 5 105 7780 1 1 f    11  the re^search and dev/elopment _function#          / 
11 5 106 7790 1 1 f    11  in ^Scottish f=actories# .                         / 
11 5 106 7800 1 2 f    11  that ((the)) ^strength 'always 'comes from the :big/ 
11 5 106 7800 1 1 f    11  !\unit# -                                          / 
11 5 106 7810 1 1 f    11  ^n=ow#                                             / 
11 5 106 7820 1 1 c    21  could ^I +((3 to 4 sylls))+ ((that that))          / 
11 5 106 7830 1 1 f    21  +[?] the ^Scottish [?@]+                           / 
11 5 106 7840 1 1 a    11  ^=order#                                           / 
11 5 106 7850 1 1 a    11  ^\order# -                                         / 
11 5 106 7860 1 1 a    11  ^/order# - .                                       / 
11 5 106 7870 1 1 a    11  ^\order# - .                                       / 
11 5 106 7880 1 2 a    12  [@] ^[?]I [?]I ^w\ould remind the 'honourable      / 
11 5 106 7880 1 1 a    12  g/entleman#                                        / 
11 5 106 7890 1 1 a    11  he`s ^made about {f/\ive} inter:v\/entions# .      / 
11 5 107 7900 1 1 a    11  ^since 'he !used h/\is t/ime#                      / 
11 5 107 7910 1 1 a    11  to ad^dress the H\ouse# -                          / 
11 5 107 7920 1 1 a    11  and we ^are 'under the g/\uillotine tod/ay#        / 
11 5 107 7930 1 1 c    11  it ^was on 'that !p\oint Mr 'Deputy 'Speaker# .    / 
11 5 107 7940 1 2 a    11  [@ ?@ @] . I was ^only re:m\inding the 'honourable / 
11 5 107 7940 1 1 a    11  'gentleman#                                        / 
11 5 107 7950 1 1 a    11  if ^/\everybody#                                   / 
11 5 107 7960 1 1 a    11  be^haved 'like !th\at#                             / 
11 5 107 7970 1 1 a    11  we((`re)) ^not going to get 'on very :f/\ar#       / 
11 5 107 7980 1 1 a    11  *- ^Mr !W\ilson#;-*;                               / 
11 5 108 7990 1 1 mem  20  *yer hear hear (etc)*                              / 
11 5 108 8000 1 1 f    11  I was a^b\out 'Mr 'Deputy :{^Sp\eaker#}#           / 
11 5 108 8010 1 1 f    11  to ^give him "\one 'last :{^ch\ance#}#             / 
11 5 108 8020 1 1 f    21  but [@] *. I ^think I 'will . [@] "!tr\y [@ ? ?]   / 
11 5 108 8030 1 1 mem  20  *(laugh)*                                          / 
11 5 108 8040 1 1 f    11  in ^v\iew of your rem/arks#*                       / 
11 5 108 8050 1 1 f    11  to ^bring "!m\y re'marks to a con'clusion#         / 
11 5 108 8060 1 1 f    11  as ^soon as I !c\an# -                             / 
11 5 109 8070 1 2 f    11  ^but _I !was !dealing with the 'question which     / 
11 5 109 8070 1 1 f    11  !h\/ad been 'raised#                               / 
11 5 109 8080 1 1 f    11  [@ @] a ^very !p\/ertinent 'question#              / 
11 5 109 8090 1 1 f    11  of the ad^vantages of s\ize# -                     / 
11 5 109 8100 1 2 f    11  and [@] . I ^think a 'lot of 'people _in           / 
11 5 109 8100 1 1 f    11  :Sc\otland#                                        / 
11 5 109 8110 1 1 f    11  ^went a:l\ong with th/at#                          / 
11 5 109 8120 1 1 f    11  for ^many y\ears#                                  / 
11 5 109 8130 1 1 f    11  in the . in the "^tw/enties#                       / 
11 5 109 8140 1 1 f    11  when the ^railways 'were [@m] am/alga'mated#       / 
11 5 109 8150 1 1 f    11  and ^then r/ationalized# .                         / 
11 5 110 8160 1 2 f    11  [@:] . ^in [dhi:] !thirties and the 'forties and   / 
11 5 110 8160 1 1 f    11  f/ifties#                                          / 
11 5 110 8170 1 2 f    11  ^when ![?]industry 'after '[?]industry in 'Scotland/ 
11 5 110 8170 1 1 f    11  was 'taken [?] \over# -                            / 
11 5 110 8180 1 2 f    11  and [@] . the ex^perience at the 'end of ((the))   / 
11 5 110 8180 1 1 f    11  :{d\ay} w\as#                                      / 
11 5 110 8190 1 1 f    11  that it is ^far b\/etter#                          / 
11 5 110 8200 1 1 f    11  to ^have your !own . !\/units# -                   / 
11 5 110 8210 1 1 f    11  ^which [?] are !capable of "thr/iving#             / 
11 5 110 8220 1 1 f    11  and of "^w/orking#                                 / 
11 5 110 8230 1 1 f    11  and if ^necessary "f/\ight/ing on their 'own# .    / 
11 5 111 8240 1 1 mem  11  ^hear *h\ear#*                                     / 
11 5 111 8250 1 2(f    11  *in* ^[?]order to !safe'guard their 'own           / 
11 5 111 8250 1 1(f    11  ex\istence#                                        / 
11 5 111 8260 1 1 f    11  and it ^is . to !give 'up your pro:t\/ections# .   / 
11 5 111 8270 1 2 f    11  of ^having a [s] a :separate !c\/orporate          / 
11 5 111 8270 1 1 f    11  ex'istence#                                        / 
11 5 111 8280 1 1 f    11  [?] and re^lying upon the 'larger ":\unit# .       / 
11 5 111 8290 1 2 f    12  be^cause [@m] the "!smaller '[int] or the          / 
11 5 111 8290 1 1 f    12  ^interests of the :smaller p\arts#                 / 
11 5 112 8300 1 1 f    11  [?] are ^not 'always :safeg\/uarded# .             / 
11 5 112 8310 1 2 f    11  [@] ^by . '[dhi . dhi] :policies 'of the 'larger   / 
11 5 112 8310 1 1 f    11  *\units#                                           / 
11 5 112 8320 1 1 mem  11  *^hear h\ear#                                      / 
11 5 112 8330 1 1 mem  11  ^hear h=ear#*                                      / 
11 5 112 8340 1 1(f    11  and ^this is !funda*m\/entally#                    / 
11 5 112 8350 1 1 mem  11  ^hear +h/ear#+                                     / 
11 5 112 8360 1 1(f    11  +. [@] ^why I+ would 'be in !disagr=eement#        / 
11 5 112 8370 1 2 f    12  with ^the . [@] ^the . :honourable 'gentleman who  / 
11 5 112 8370 1 1 f    12  'raised the p\oint#                                / 
11 5 113 8380 1 2 f    11  the "^second 'reason 'why I would be a:g\ainst it  / 
11 5 113 8380 1 1 f    11  of c/ourse# .                                      / 
11 5 113 8390 1 2 f    11  ^is the as!sumption that the :Scottish De'velopment/ 
11 5 113 8390 1 1 f    11  [?]/Agency#                                        / 
11 5 113 8400 1 1 f    11  ^neces'sarily would 'be the _w/eaker b\ody# .      / 
11 5 113 8410 1 1 f    11  ^in fin\ance# -                                    / 
11 5 113 8420 1 2 f    11  [@ ?]if ^one were to 'take the "!\/oil 'revenues   / 
11 5 113 8420 1 1 f    11  for 'instance#                                     / 
11 5 113 8430 1 1 f    11  to come "^b\/ack to that 'subject# .               / 
11 5 114 8440 1 1 f    11  ^then [dhi] . the !Scottish . De'velopment /Agency#/ 
11 5 114 8450 1 1 f    11  might ^well be the "!str\onger 'unit# .            / 
11 5 114 8460 1 2 f    11  ^in !terms of a'vailable fi'nance for in'dustrial  / 
11 5 114 8460 1 1 f    11  de!v\elopment#                                     / 
11 5 114 8470 1 1 ?    11  ((^r/\eal *'money#))*                              / 
11 5 114 8480 1 1 f    11  *and ^this* . !this "p\oint#                       / 
11 5 114 8490 1 1 f    11  of [@:] ^having "r/\eal 'money# .                  / 
11 5 114 8500 1 1 f    11  [@] ^rather than :p\/aper 'money#                  / 
11 5 114 8510 1 1 f    11  has oc^curred to !very many 'folk in :Sc\otland#   / 
11 5 114 8520 1 1 ?    11  ^hear h\ear#                                       / 
11 6       10 1 1 a    11  ^out"!!s\/ide the 'armed 'forces# - -              / 
11 6       20 1 1 a    11  ^homo_sexu/ality# -                                / 
11 6       30 1 1 a    11  between ^{tw/o} con:senting - /adults# .           / 
11 6       40 1 1 a    11  in ^pr/ivate# .                                    / 
11 6       50 1 1 a    11  been "^h\/eld to 'be# .                            / 
11 6       60 1 1 a    11  be^tw=een# .                                       / 
11 6       70 1 1 a    11  "^one 'member of the 'armed f/orces# -             / 
11 6       80 1 1 a    11  or "^two m/embers# .                               / 
11 6       90 1 1 a    11  to be dis^graceful c/onduct#                       / 
11 6      100 1 1 a    11  of an ^\/in'decent#                                / 
11 6      110 1 1 a    11  ^k\ind# .                                          / 
11 6      120 1 1 a    11  now my ^l/ords#                                    / 
11 6      130 1 1 a    11  I ^simply s=ay# .                                  / 
11 6      140 1 1 a    11  in ^\equity# -                                     / 
11 6      150 1 1 a    11  ^let a:l=one# .                                    / 
11 6      160 1 1 a    11  in "^j\ustice#                                     / 
11 6      170 1 1 a    11  as ^well as hu:m\anity# .                          / 
11 6      180 1 1 a    11  we ^ought 'not to ":t\olerate#                     / 
11 6      190 1 1 a    11  a ^situ/ation# .                                   / 
11 6      200 1 1 a    11  ^where'by "th/at#                                  / 
11 6      210 1 1 a    11  in ^actual fact ![?]/is# .                         / 
11 6      220 1 1 a    11  the ^law _of . the l\and# .                        / 
11 6      230 1 1 a    11  there "^\is 'conflict# .                           / 
11 6      240 1 1 a    11  ^n\ow# .                                           / 
11 6      250 1 1 a    11  "^\/I be'lieve# .                                  / 
11 6      260 1 2 a    12  that "^that . 'is the as ^far as "!!\I`m           / 
11 6      260 1 1 a    12  con'cerned#                                        / 
11 6      270 1 1 a    11  and ^other _noble l/ords#                          / 
11 6      280 1 1 a    11  who may ^take _part in de:b/ate# .                 / 
11 6      290 1 1 a    11  ^cl\early# .                                       / 
11 6      300 1 1 a    11  from their "^personal . 'point of :v/iew# .        / 
11 6      310 1 1 a    11  will ^have . 'their . [@?] :situ\ations#           / 
11 6      320 1 1 a    11  ^let me a:g/ain# .                                 / 
11 6      330 1 1 a    11  be^cause "!these '[?]are cr\ucial# - -             / 
11 6      340 1 1 a    11  "^h/ere#                                           / 
11 6      350 1 1 a    11  you`ve ^g=ot# .                                    / 
11 6      360 1 1 a    11  [ei] ^member of the Comm/ittee# .                  / 
11 6      370 1 1 a    11  I am "^n\/ot saying#                               / 
11 6      380 1 1 a    11  I ^neces'sarily 'disa!gr\ee# -                     / 
11 6      390 1 1 a    11  with ^th/at#                                       / 
11 6      400 1 1 a    11  as a ^defin/ition#                                 / 
11 6      410 1 1 a    11  ^of _such !\acts# .                                / 
11 6      420 1 1 a    11  but "^what 'I am :\/asking is#                     / 
11 6      430 1 1 a    11  "^why 'you :treat it as an of!f\ence# .            / 
11 6      440 1 1 a    11  ^when you can !treat it in :other w\ays# .         / 
11 6      450 1 1 a    11  you are ^taking \action#                           / 
11 6      460 1 1 a    11  and ^saying that "!purely 'and s/imply# .          / 
11 6      470 1 1 a    11  it ^[?]is an off\ence#                             / 
11 6      480 1 1 a    11  it ^is an of!!f/ence#                              / 
11 6      490 1 1 a    11  if he is a ^member of the _armed f/orces# .        / 
11 6      500 1 1 a    11  but "^not . if _he is a civ\ilian# .               / 
11 6      510 1 1 a    11  if he ^does it a!!w\/ay from his 'place of 'duty# ./ 
11 6      520 1 1 a    11  it ^is an of!f=ence# .                             / 
11 6      530 1 1 a    11  or if he ^does it in pr=ivate#                     / 
11 6      540 1 1 a    11  it ^is an off\ence# .                              / 
11 6      550 1 3 a    11  if he ^does it with :somebody 'who 'has an         / 
11 6      550 1 2 a    11  as:soci'ation . with the ":\/armed 'forces at 'all#/ 
11 6      550 1 1 a    11  .                                                  / 
11 6      560 1 1 a    11  it ^is an off\ence# .                              / 
11 6      570 1 1 a    11  ^wh\y# .                                           / 
11 6      580 1 1 a    11  Mr ^F\/acer said# .                                / 
11 6      590 1 1 a    11  there ^is an 'argument h/ere#                      / 
11 6      600 1 1 a    11  ^for det\errents# .                                / 
11 6      610 1 1 a    11  we are "^trying to pre:vent "[?]\actions# .        / 
11 6      620 1 1 a    11  which are "^detri'mental to :service d\iscipline# ./ 
11 6      630 1 1 a    11  and ^oper'ational ef:f\ectiveness#                 / 
11 6      640 1 1 a    11  and the e^x\/istence 'of#                          / 
11 6      650 1 1 a    11  the spe^c\/ific pro'vision# .                      / 
11 6      660 1 1 a    11  is ^help_ful . '[@?] 'in in 'this resp\ect# .      / 
11 6      670 1 1 a    11  ^now [@?m] . my !l/ords# .                         / 
11 6      680 1 1 a    11  [@?m] I ^know that the !H/ouse# .                  / 
11 6      690 1 1 a    11  [@?] ^cl=early# .                                  / 
11 6      700 1 1 a    11  in ^this m=atter# .                                / 
11 6      710 1 1 a    11  ^as in'deed . 'on . :many . !\/other 'matters# .   / 
11 6      720 1 1 a    11  [@?] ^[haz@z] :got it`s !own . [@:m] . !!v/iews#   / 
11 6      730 1 1 a    11  ^we are the p/eople# .                             / 
11 6      740 1 1 a    11  who can ^either re!{t/ain} . [dhi:] :l/aw#         / 
11 6      750 1 1 a    12  ^or b\y ^intro!ducing by a:m=end'ment# .           / 
11 6      760 1 1 a    11  ^ch\ange it# .                                     / 
11 6      770 1 1 a    11  I ^s\/imply 'plead# .                              / 
11 6      780 1 1 a    11  in ^/evidence# .                                   / 
11 6      790 1 1 a    11  the ^/evidence#                                    / 
11 6      800 1 1 a    11  that was ^{g/iven} to the Com:m/ittee# .           / 
11 6      810 1 2 a    11  ^by [dhi] !National . 'Council . '[?]of :Civil     / 
11 6      810 1 1 a    11  !L\iberties# .                                     / 
11 6      820 1 1 a    11  and "^this is wh\at 'they _say#                    / 
11 6      830 1 1 a    11  ^[?]on _this [?]\issue# .                          / 
11 6      840 1 1 a    11  ^homos\/exual 'acts#                               / 
11 6      850 1 1 a    11  are an of^f/ence#                                  / 
11 6      860 1 1 a    11  for ^menbers of the 'armed f\orces#                / 
11 6      870 1 1 a    11  an a^n\/omaly# .                                   / 
11 6      880 1 1 a    11  ^when com!p/ared#                                  / 
11 6      890 1 1 a    11  to the ^l/aw#                                      / 
11 6      900 1 1 a    11  re^lating to the :rest of soc\iety# .              / 
11 6      910 1 1 a    11  ^homos\exual#                                      / 
11 6      920 1 1 a    11  ^m\en and w/omen#                                  / 
11 6      930 1 1 a    11  ^often 'face har:\assment# .                       / 
11 6      940 1 1 a    11  both of^f=icial#                                   / 
11 6      950 1 1 a    11  [?]and "^[?]\unof'ficial# .                        / 
11 6      960 1 1 a    11  the ^organi'zation ":[?]At "\Ease#                 / 
11 6      970 1 1 a    11  ^/and#                                             / 
11 6      980 1 1 a    11  Cam^p/aign#                                        / 
11 6      990 1 1 a    11  for ^Homo'sexual E:qu\ality# .                     / 
11 6     1000 1 1 a    11  have ^details of :indi_vidual c\ases# .            / 
11 6     1010 1 2 a    11  where a ^person sus!!p\/ected of being homo'sexual#/ 
11 6     1010 1 1 a    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     1020 1 1 a    11  has had "^h/is or 'her#                            / 
11 6     1030 1 1 a    11  pos^{s\essions} and :locker _s\earched# .          / 
11 6     1040 1 1 a    11  by the ^military pol\ice# .                        / 
11 6     1050 1 1 a    11  and ^diaries and :{l\etters} ":t\aken# .           / 
11 6     1060 1 1 a    11  and the ^names there:in rec\orded# .               / 
11 6     1070 1 1 a    11  ^s\/uch har'rass'ment#                             / 
11 6     1080 1 1 a    11  can ^have a pro!foundly dis!t\/urbing ef'fect# .   / 
11 6     1090 1 1 a    11  on the ^indi'vidual :[?]under susp\icion# .        / 
11 6     1100 1 1 a    11  "^r\/ecently# .                                    / 
11 6     1110 1 1 a    11  a ^twenty'one year 'old :pr\ivate#                 / 
11 6     1120 1 1 a    11  in the "^K\/ing`s 'Regi'ment# .                    / 
11 6     1130 1 1 a    11  was con^v=icted#                                   / 
11 6     1140 1 1 a    11  and "^jailed for "!l\ife# .                        / 
11 6     1150 1 1 a    11  after ^strangling a ":fr\iend# .                   / 
11 6     1160 1 1 a    11  who had ^threatened to "!tell the \/army# .        / 
11 6     1170 1 1 a    11  a^bout their !homo'sexual [?]af"f\air# .           / 
11 6     1180 1 1 a    11  "^sentences of :nine months` im"!pr\isonment# .    / 
11 6     1190 1 1 a    11  for ^merely 'having a !h\omo'sexual aff/air# .     / 
11 6     1200 1 1 a    11  are ^not unkn\own# .                               / 
11 6     1210 1 1 a    11  ^such c/onduct#                                    / 
11 6     1220 1 1 a    11  would "^n\ot be p=unishable# .                     / 
11 6     1230 1 1 a    11  ^=un'der# .                                        / 
11 6     1240 1 1 a    11  the ^general l\aw# .                               / 
11 6     1250 1 1 a    11  in ^N 'C _C L`s !v/iew#                            / 
11 6     1260 1 1 a    11  there is ^no justifi:cation 'whatso/ever# .        / 
11 6     1270 1 1 a    11  for the "^perse'cution [?]under !m\/ilitary 'law# ./ 
11 6     1280 1 1 a    11  of ^homo'sexual ":men and w\omen#                  / 
11 6     1290 1 1 a    11  ^we have "!str\essed# .                            / 
11 6     1300 1 1 a    11  that ^civil _liberties for :s\ervice men#          / 
11 6     1310 1 1 a    11  should "^not "d\iffer# .                           / 
11 6     1320 1 1 a    11  from ^those of ci!v\ilians#                        / 
11 6     1330 1 1 a    11  with^/out# .                                       / 
11 6     1340 1 1 a    11  ^good !r\eason# .                                  / 
11 6     1350 1 1 a    11  my ^l/ords# .                                      / 
11 6     1360 1 1 a    11  ^[=@:]#                                            / 
11 6     1370 1 1 a    11  "^{/I`m} s\/atis'fied# .                           / 
11 6     1380 1 1 a    11  ^not 'only _from 'my . :predi!l\ection# -          / 
11 6     1390 1 1 a    11  ^in the "!\argument# .                             / 
11 6     1400 1 2 a    11  be^fore _coming to !{st\/udy 'this} with a :little / 
11 6     1400 1 1 a    11  'more c/are# .                                     / 
11 6     1410 1 1 a    11  than ^I would _[?]other'wise have d\one#           / 
11 6     1420 1 1 a    11  but ^simply b=ased# .                              / 
11 6     1430 1 1 a    11  u^pon the :[?]evidence '[?]of the Comm\ittee# .    / 
11 6     1440 1 1 a    11  that the ^case was !certainly 'not 'made \out# .   / 
11 6     1450 1 1 a    11  in ^nineteen 'eightys\ix# .                        / 
11 6     1460 1 1 a    11  in the ^light of the "!current "l\aw# .            / 
11 6     1470 1 1 a    11  and the "^law 'which . as !I [?]underst/and it# .  / 
11 6     1480 1 2 a    11  is ^not !seriously "!ch\allenged . {in ^either     / 
11 6     1480 1 1 a    11  "H\ouses#}# .                                      / 
11 6     1490 1 1 a    11  ^that !{/I} "!cannot be_l/ieve#                    / 
11 6     1500 1 1 a    11  ^that there is a !c\/ase made 'out#                / 
11 6     1510 1 1 a    11  for ^main!t\aining#                                / 
11 6     1520 1 1 a    11  ^[dhi:] !non appli!c\/ation of that 'law# .        / 
11 6     1530 1 1 a    11  to ^members 'of the 'armed f\orces#                / 
11 6     1540 1 1 a    11  and ^that`s wh/y# .                                / 
11 6     1550 1 1 a    11  I ^move my am\endment# - .                         / 
11 6     1560 1 1 b    11  a^mendment prop/osed# .                            / 
11 6     1570 1 1 b    11  to in^sert the !new cl/ause#                       / 
11 6     1580 1 1 b    11  ^as "!pr\inted# - .                                / 
11 6     1590 1 1 s    20  (background noise)                                 / 
11 6     1600 1 1 ?c   11  ((1 syll)) "^let me sp=eak#                        / 
11 6     1610 1 1 c    11  so"^ciety _has _con"d=emned# .                     / 
11 6     1620 1 1 c    11  ^homo'sexu\ality# .                                / 
11 6     1630 1 1 c    11  ^those of 'you who 'know the "B=ible# .            / 
11 6     1640 1 1 c    11  re^members 'Lot`s "w/ife# .                        / 
11 6     1650 1 2 c    11  re^member 'how the ":vengeance and :punishment of  / 
11 6     1650 1 1 c    11  G/od#                                              / 
11 6     1660 1 2 c    11  came ^down on the :cities of _Sodom and Gom\orrah# / 
11 6     1660 1 1 c    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     1670 1 2 c    11  and ^{h\ow} "sodomy re_mained the "_name "_given to/ 
11 6     1670 1 1 c    11  'this off\ence# -                                  / 
11 6     1680 1 1 c    11  at the "^Common _L/\aw# .                          / 
11 6     1690 1 1 c    11  it was ^called the abominable 'crime of "b=uggery# / 
11 6     1700 1 1 c    11  and "^I`ve _tried [@?] _cases /at it# .            / 
11 6     1710 1 1 c    11  ^I`ve 'tried 'noncom_missioned /officers# .        / 
11 6     1720 1 1 c    11  ^I`ve !sentenced them for :three y/ears for it# -  / 
11 6     1730 1 1 c    11  be"^c\/ause#                                       / 
11 6     1740 1 1 c    11  it "^\is#                                          / 
11 6     1750 1 1 c    11  [@] "^[s\/e6v@nli:] in the 'armed 'forces# .       / 
11 6     1760 1 1 c    11  ^d\etri"m=ental#                                   / 
11 6     1770 1 1 c    11  to "^d=iscipline#                                  / 
11 6     1780 1 1 c    11  and ^good _/or'der# .                              / 
11 6     1790 1 1 c    11  de"^structive of mo:r/ality# .                     / 
11 6     1800 1 1 c    11  and is "^c\ertainly#                               / 
11 6     1810 1 1 c    11  to ^{b\e} cond\emned# - .                          / 
11 6     1820 1 1 c    11  ^all 'that in the l/aw# .                          / 
11 6     1830 1 2 c    11  was ^{/altered} in :nine'teen 'hundred and         / 
11 6     1830 1 1 c    11  !sixty*:s/even# - -                                / 
11 6     1840 1 1 s    20  *(noise of turning over pages)*                    / 
11 6     1850 1 1(c    11  ^I rem/ember it#                                   / 
11 6     1860 1 1 c    11  and we ^had the deb/ates 'on 'it#                  / 
11 6     1870 1 1 c    11  ^there it w/as# .                                  / 
11 6     1880 1 2 c    11  ^Section !One of [dh@]* [@:] :nineteen !sixty      / 
11 6     1880 1 1 c    11  "!s\/even 'act# .                                  / 
11 6     1890 1 1 c    11  a ^homo:{s\/exual 'act} :\/in 'private# .          / 
11 6     1900 1 1 c    11  shall "^not 'be an of:f/ence# .                    / 
11 6     1910 1 2 c    11  pro^vided that the :parties 'to :thereto con:s/ent#/ 
11 6     1910 1 1 c    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     1920 1 2 c    11  and ^have at!tained the _age of "twenty"one y\ears#/ 
11 6     1920 1 1 c    11  -                                                  / 
11 6     1930 1 1 c    11  is *"^that to appl/y#                              / 
11 6     1940 1 1 s    20  *(fiddles with papers)*                            / 
11 6     1950 1 1(c    11  to the ^/Army#                                     / 
11 6     1960 1 1 c    11  ^N=avy and [?]/Air 'Force#* .                      / 
11 6     1970 1 1 c    11  is "^all the 'difference to b=e#                   / 
11 6     1980 1 1 c    11  ^whether he`s ":just 'over _twenty/one#            / 
11 6     1990 1 1 c    11  ^or !just "![?]under :twenty:=one# -               / 
11 6     2000 1 2 c    11  when *the* ^sergeant or the 'sergeant 'major may be/ 
11 6     2000 1 1 c    11  'twentyn/ine# .                                    / 
11 6     2010 1 1 s    20  *(coughs)*                                         / 
11 6     2020 1 1(c    11  and ^these y/oungsters {^in the /army#}# .         / 
11 6     2030 1 1 c    11  "^nineteen 'twenty _twenty/one# .                  / 
11 6     2040 1 1 c    11  ^you`re "_getting to ri"!diculous dis:t\inctions# ./ 
11 6     2050 1 1 c    11  and ^{/all} \/I would 'say 'though#                / 
11 6     2060 1 1 c    11  and ^I`m [p] !s\ure# .                             / 
11 6     2070 1 1 c    12  ^pretty [sh] ^I`m !pr\/etty "s\ure#                / 
11 6     2080 1 1 c    11  and ^{/\I`ve 'known} :many \of them# .             / 
11 6     2090 1 1 c    11  ^generals 'admirals and [@] :\air force men#       / 
11 6     2100 1 1 c    11  they would "^c\ertainly#                           / 
11 6     2110 1 1 c    11  ((re))^[tein] _this of"!f=ence# .                  / 
11 6     2120 1 2 c    11  it`s ^nece'ssary to main":{t\ain} . [dhi:]         / 
11 6     2120 1 1 c    11  mo!r\ale# -                                        / 
11 6     2130 1 2 c    11  and [dhi] ^sense of !dignity and ef"!f\iciency .   / 
11 6     2130 1 1 c    11  {^of the !\armed 'forces#}# .                      / 
11 6     2140 1 2 c    11  so I "^[houf] this [@] a:mendment will "!not be    / 
11 6     2140 1 1 c    11  ac:c\epted# - -                                    / 
11 6     2150 1 1 d    11  my ^l\ords 'sir# .                                 / 
11 6     2160 1 1 d    11  ^once ag/ain#                                      / 
11 6     2170 1 1 d    11  the ^noble 'lord 'Lord [@] . !Gr=aham# .           / 
11 6     2180 1 1 d    11  has ^m\oved an am/endment 'which#                  / 
11 6     2190 1 1 d    11  [@] [?]I ^think he 'will agr/ee# .                 / 
11 6     2200 1 1 d    11  [i?] is ^not a party 'matter at !\all# .           / 
11 6     2210 1 1 d    11  and ^any re:m/arks#                                / 
11 6     2220 1 1 d    11  I ^may _make :n/ow# .                              / 
11 6     2230 1 1 d    11  [a7?] are ^simply 'on my '[?]own be:h\alf# - .     / 
11 6     2240 1 2 d    12  [@?] ^the [@] - - [?] I ^think [dhi:] !!first [@] ./ 
11 6     2240 1 1 d    12  :p\/oint 'though that# -                           / 
11 6     2250 1 2 d    11  [@] ^I would dis!p\/ute with the _noble _lord _Lord/ 
11 6     2250 1 1 d    11  'Graham {with ^great res:p/ect#}#                  / 
11 6     2260 1 1 d    11  in his ^\admirable# .                              / 
11 6     2270 1 1 d    11  ^introd/uction# .                                  / 
11 6     2280 1 3 d    12  is ^where 'he 'said [@] - there is ^n\o            / 
11 6     2280 1 2 d    12  or [in] im^plied there is !no en'vironment         / 
11 6     2280 1 1 d    12  pe!c\uliar#                                        / 
11 6     2290 1 1 d    11  to the ^armed "!f\orces# -                         / 
11 6     2300 1 2 d    11  ^that [@] !some'how . the !!s\ame [@] -            / 
11 6     2300 1 1 d    11  the ^=atmos'phere#                                 / 
11 6     2310 1 2 d    11  [dhi:] [?] [dhi] ^same '[?]atmos'phere . _is and   / 
11 6     2310 1 1 d    11  :must ex:/ist# .                                   / 
11 6     2320 1 1 d    11  ^in ci'vilian '[?]and _service l\ife# .            / 
11 6     2330 1 1 d    11  ^[?]=I be_lieve# .                                 / 
11 6     2340 1 1 d    11  ^that 'there`s a pro!found d\ifference# .          / 
11 6     2350 1 1 d    11  ^in the :atmos:ph=ere#                             / 
11 6     2360 1 1 d    11  and en^vironment of !s\/ervice 'life# .            / 
11 6     2370 1 1 d    11  ^and 'of [?] ci"!v\ilian 'life# .                  / 
11 6     2380 1 1 d    11  you "^c\an`t get {a"^w\ay from 'this#}# -          / 
11 6     2390 1 2 d    11  the ^armed 'forces 'are for a par!ticular          / 
11 6     2390 1 1 d    11  "!p\urpose# -                                      / 
11 6     2400 1 1 d    11  ^and !they _must _be ef"!f\icient#                 / 
11 6     2410 1 1 d    11  for ^that par:ticular p/urpose# -                  / 
11 6     2420 1 1 d    11  and they ^cannot necess\arily# .                   / 
11 6     2430 1 1 d    11  be a "^m\irror# .                                  / 
11 6     2440 1 1 d    11  of ^our ci'vilian soc/iety# -                      / 
11 6     2450 1 1 d    11  and ^/al'so# .                                     / 
11 6     2460 1 1 d    11  ^fulfil the p/urpose#                              / 
11 6     2470 1 1 d    11  for ^which !we 'maint/ain# .                       / 
11 6     2480 1 1 d    11  [@] the ^armed s\ervices# -                        / 
11 6     2490 1 1 d    11  and ^r\eally#                                      / 
11 6     2500 1 1 d    11  [?]I ^think that this "!d\oes af'fect# .           / 
11 6     2510 1 1 d    11  the ^issue 'we`re dis_c\ussing# .                  / 
11 6     2520 1 1 d    12  ^on 'this [@] . ^on 'this [@:] . am\endment# -     / 
11 6     2530 1 1 d    11  I a"^gree with the :noble 'Lord !Gr/\aham#         / 
11 6     2540 1 2 d    11  I "^don`t be:lieve that the De!{f=ence} .          / 
11 6     2540 1 1 d    11  De:partment`s !w\itnesses#                         / 
11 6     2550 1 1 d    11  to [dhi:] . Se^lect Com!m/\ittee# .                / 
11 6     2560 1 1 d    11  [@] ^made 'out a !very l/ogical {^or persu/asive#}#/ 
11 6     2570 1 1 d    11  ^c\ase# - -                                        / 
11 6     2580 1 1 d    11  [@] ^wh\at [@?] we`re dis:c\/ussing 'really# -     / 
11 6     2590 1 1 d    12  ^is [@] - ^what k\ind#                             / 
11 6     2600 1 2 d    11  of ^homo!{s\exual} re!{l\ationship} [?]or          / 
11 6     2600 1 1 d    11  !!c\onduct# .                                      / 
11 6     2610 1 1 d    11  if ^\/any# -                                       / 
11 6     2620 1 1 d    11  ^should 'be per!m\/issible# -                      / 
11 6     2630 1 1 d    11  which is "^n\/ot preju'dicial# -                   / 
11 6     2640 1 1 d    21  ^to [@] .                                          / 
11 6     2650 1 1 ?    11  ^good 'order and *d\iscipline#*                    / 
11 6     2660 1 1 d    10  *:good* . /order and d\iscipline# -                / 
11 6     2670 1 1 d    11  we "^all agr\ee#                                   / 
11 6     2680 1 1 d    11  that ^homo _{s\exual} be!h\aviour[@]# .            / 
11 6     2690 1 1 d    11  [?@] and ^homo_sexual re!l\/ationships#            / 
11 6     2700 1 1 d    11  which "^\are#                                      / 
11 6     2710 1 1 d    11  ^prejud/icial# -                                   / 
11 6     2720 1 1 d    11  to ^good 'order and :d/iscipline# -                / 
11 6     2730 1 1 d    11  ^they _are [?]al!{r/eady} . [?] d/ealt with#       / 
11 6     2740 1 2 d    11  and ^no _one _is . '[?]arguing a'bout _that at     / 
11 6     2740 1 1 d    11  \all# -                                            / 
11 6     2750 1 2 d    12  ^what I _think my _noble [?@] . the ^noble :{l\ord}/ 
11 6     2750 1 1 d    12  'Lord !Graham is _r=aising _is#                    / 
11 6     2760 1 1 d    11  [@] . the "^qu=estion# - .                         / 
11 6     2770 1 1 d    11  [o6?] "^homo'sexual be"h=aviour# -                 / 
11 6     2780 1 1 d    11  or re^l\/ationships# .                             / 
11 6     2790 1 1 d    11  which are "^not 'prejud\icial# - -                 / 
11 6     2800 1 1 d    11  ^should th/ey# .                                   / 
11 6     2810 1 1 d    11  [?]or ^should they n\ot# - .                       / 
11 6     2820 1 1 d    11  "^be perm\issible# -                               / 
11 6     2830 1 1 d    11  ^{[?]/I} 'find it as a :service m/an#              / 
11 6     2840 1 1 d    11  ^[?]al_most im!possible to conc/eive# .            / 
11 6     2850 1 2 d    12  of a ^homo'sexual [?]an ^open homo:sexual          / 
11 6     2850 1 1 d    12  rel/ation'ship# .                                  / 
11 6     2860 1 1 d    11  or ^homo'sexual :c=onduct# .                       / 
11 6     2870 1 1 d    11  which would "^n\ot . be _preju_dicial# .           / 
11 6     2880 1 1 ?    11  ^hear h\ear#                                       / 
11 6     2890 1 1 ?    11  *^h=ear#*                                          / 
11 6     2900 1 1 d    11  *to* ^good /order and d\iscipline# -               / 
11 6     2910 1 1 d    12  [@] - . ^[a7w@] ^m/\any of us 'here#               / 
11 6     2920 1 1 d    11  will have ^had [@] ex!!p\erience#                  / 
11 6     2930 1 1 d    11  I`m ^s\ure#                                        / 
11 6     2940 1 1 d    11  of ^/active s\ervice#                              / 
11 6     2950 1 1 d    11  and ^service m\en# - -                             / 
11 6     2960 1 1 d    11  ^I can _only s/ay#                                 / 
11 6     2970 1 2 d    11  and I`m ^sp\eaking en{^t\irely for {^mys\elf#}#}# -/ 
11 6     2970 1 1 d    11  -                                                  / 
11 6     2980 1 1 d    11  that ^{/I} "!c/annot be":l\ieve '[dh@t]# .         / 
11 6     2990 1 1 d    11  ^most 'servicem/en# .                              / 
11 6     3000 1 1 d    11  ^on 'active s/ervice# .                            / 
11 6     3010 1 1 d    11  would "^w\ant# .                                   / 
11 6     3020 1 1 d    11  to ^sh/are#                                        / 
11 6     3030 1 1 d    11  their ^crowded b\illets# .                         / 
11 6     3040 1 2 d    11  ^with [@] [?]a !pair [?]of ![?]either              / 
11 6     3040 1 1 d    11  ":h\/etero'sexual#                                 / 
11 6     3050 1 1 d    11  ^or !h\/omo'sexual#                                / 
11 6     3060 1 1 d    11  ^l\overs# .                                        / 
11 6     3070 1 1 d    11  ^don`t bel\ieve it# -                              / 
11 6     3080 1 1 d    11  and I ^think that is a "!perfectly r=easonable# -  / 
11 6     3090 1 1 d    11  ^atti'tude to t\ake# .                             / 
11 6     3100 1 1 d    11  it`s ^not a _matter of pr/eju'dice# .              / 
11 6     3110 1 1 d    11  ((it`s)) ^simply a 'matter of 'common s\ense#      / 
11 6     3120 1 1 d    11  it`s ^wh=at _I# .                                  / 
11 6     3130 1 1 d    11  would have ^felt 'mys\elf# .                       / 
11 6     3140 1 2 d    12  and I ^think 'I [?]I would ^like to :h\ear from    / 
11 6     3140 1 1 d    12  'Lord 'Graham# .                                   / 
11 6     3150 1 1 d    11  what "^\is 'this# .                                / 
11 6     3160 1 1 d    11  homo^sexual :c\/onduct# .                          / 
11 6     3170 1 1 d    11  which is "^n\ot 'prejud/icial# .                   / 
11 6     3180 1 1 d    11  which he ^thinks _should be all\owed# .            / 
11 6     3190 1 2 d    11  because ^as a 'service_man I !f/\ind it 'difficult#/ 
11 6     3190 1 1 d    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     3200 1 1 d    11  ^to [?]env\isage 'this# - .                        / 
11 6     3210 1 1 d    11  I ^{f\eel} however dis"!cr\eet# -                  / 
11 6     3220 1 1 d    11  [dhi:] "^heteros=exual#                            / 
11 6     3230 1 1 d    11  or "^homos\exual# .                                / 
11 6     3240 1 1 d    11  re^lationship w/as# .                              / 
11 6     3250 1 1 d    11  in con^ditions of "!\/active 'service# .           / 
11 6     3260 1 1 d    11  it ^would be disr/uptive# .                        / 
11 6     3270 1 1 d    11  it would cre^ate t/ensions# .                      / 
11 6     3280 1 1 d    11  it would ^not be w\anted#                          / 
11 6     3290 1 1 d    11  and I ^ask mys=elf# .                              / 
11 6     3300 1 2 d    11  is ^this 'something 'that the :armed _forces       / 
11 6     3300 1 1 d    11  "w\ant# .                                          / 
11 6     3310 1 2 d    11  do the ^armed _forces "w\ant us {to ^move this     / 
11 6     3310 1 1 d    11  am\endment#}#                                      / 
11 6     3320 1 1 d    11  ^/I#                                               / 
11 6     3330 1 1 d    11  ^have _no \evidence {at ^/\all#}#                  / 
11 6     3340 1 2 d    12  [h@] . ^what [@] . ^I !still know a'bout the       / 
11 6     3340 1 1 d    12  'armed 'services sug!g\/ests to 'me# .             / 
11 6     3350 1 2 d    11  that ^they would !not 'wish this a:{m\endment} . to/ 
11 6     3350 1 1 d    11  be !p\assed# .                                     / 
11 6     3360 1 1 d    11  and ^that 'being s/o# -                            / 
11 6     3370 1 1 d    11  [?]on ^what "gr\ounds#                             / 
11 6     3380 1 2 d    11  are ^we _going to im"!p\ose . {our ^v\iews 'on     / 
11 6     3380 1 1 d    11  these _matters#}# .                                / 
11 6     3390 1 1 d    11  ^on the 'armed s\ervices# * - *                    / 
11 6     3400 1 1 ?    20  *((3 sylls))*                                      / 
11 6     3410 2 3(d    21  ^m/y f\eeling                                      / 
11 6     3410 2 2(d    21  ^my 'feeling :is that * . [@:]* :with [dhi:] _most / 
11 6     3410 2 1(d    21  "!{l/iberal}                                       / 
11 6     3420 1 1 ?    20  *((1 syll))*                                       / 
11 6     3410 1 1(d    11  in:terpret:ation ":p\/ossible# .                   / 
11 6     3430 1 1 d    11  I ^do 'not th\ink#                                 / 
11 6     3440 1 2 d    11  that ^this is '[ei] "!genuinely "l\/iberal         / 
11 6     3440 1 1 d    11  [?]am\endment {that`s be^f\ore us#}# - - -         / 
11 6     3450 1 1 ?    11  *^hear h\ear#*                                     / 
11 6     3460 1 1 s    20  *+(background noise, repetitions of "hear hear")+* / 
11 6     3470 1 1 ?    21  +((that`s ^bef\ore us))+                           / 
11 6     3480 1 1 ?    11  ((^y\eah#))                                        / 
11 6     3490 1 1 ?    20  *((several sylls))*                                / 
11 6     3500 1 1 e    11  *^may ((I))* 'just _inter!v\ene#                   / 
11 6     3510 1 1 e    11  [@:] - I ^{v\ery 'much} ad!m\ired#                 / 
11 6     3520 1 1 e    11  [dhi:] ^speech we 'just !!h\eard# -                / 
11 6     3530 1 1 e    11  [?@:?] and [@] ^/\any'one#                         / 
11 6     3540 1 1 e    11  who [@] . is ^t\empted#                            / 
11 6     3550 1 1 e    11  ^to [@] be at!tr\acted#                            / 
11 6     3560 1 1 e    11  ^by !some !corre!l\ation {be^tw\een#}# .           / 
11 6     3570 1 1 e    11  ci^vilian :l\ife#                                  / 
11 6     3580 1 1 e    12  and the ^armed [f] ^l\ife in the armed !f\/orces# ./ 
11 6     3590 1 1 e    11  is se^verely mis:l\eading him'self# .              / 
11 6     3600 1 1 e    11  [@] [ei] ^p\erson#                                 / 
11 6     3610 1 1 e    11  in ci^vilian l/ife#                                / 
11 6     3620 1 1 e    11  has ^got the r/ight# .                             / 
11 6     3630 1 1 e    11  to re^f\use * . {^to !d\/o* 'something#}#          / 
11 6     3640 1 1 s    20  *(coughs)*                                         / 
11 6     3650 1 1(e    11  which ^somebody /else 'asks him to d\o# .          / 
11 6     3660 1 1 e    11  [@?] ^in the :[?]\/army# .                         / 
11 6     3670 1 1 e    11  or ^in the *s/ervices# .                           / 
11 6     3680 1 1 s    20  *(series of crashes)*                              / 
11 6     3690 1 1(e    11  ^one* _can"!n\ot# -                                / 
11 6     3700 1 1 e    11  with^\out# .                                       / 
11 6     3710 1 1 e    11  retri^b\ution# .                                   / 
11 6     3720 1 1 e    11  re"^f\/use 'to . {^carry /out#}# .                 / 
11 6     3730 1 1 e    11  [?] the ^t/erms of an \order# -                    / 
11 6     3740 1 1 e    11  ^l/ife# .                                          / 
11 6     3750 1 1 e    11  is ^very d\ifferent# .                             / 
11 6     3760 1 1 e    11  ^in ci!vilian l/ife#                               / 
11 6     3770 1 1 e    11  ^life is !very d/ifferent#                         / 
11 6     3780 1 1 e    11  in the . ^[?]armed f\orces# .                      / 
11 6     3790 1 1 e    11  in ^nineteen . :forty!f\/ive# .                    / 
11 6     3800 1 1 e    11  ^I 'spent !many d\ays# .                           / 
11 6     3810 1 1 e    11  ^pr\ose'cuting# .                                  / 
11 6     3820 1 1 e    11  [ei] ^W\arrant 'Officer {^Class \/One#}# -         / 
11 6     3830 1 1 e    11  at ^general 'court :m\artial# -                    / 
11 6     3840 1 1 e    11  ^[fo7@r] . !this . [?]al:{l\eged} . off\ence# .    / 
11 6     3850 1 1 e    11  in res^pect . of "!nine _private !s\oldiers# -     / 
11 6     3860 1 1 e    11  [@] ^[?]it [?]of !c/ourse# .                       / 
11 6     3870 1 1 e    11  was . ^abso!l\utely 'preju{^d\icial#}# .           / 
11 6     3880 1 1 e    11  to ^good {\order} and :military !d\iscipline# .    / 
11 6     3890 1 1 e    11  be^cause if !this thing . oc:c\/urs#               / 
11 6     3900 1 1 e    11  I [?] [a7] I`m ^s\orry# .                          / 
11 6     3910 1 1 e    11  I "^have to . ((a)):p\/ologise# .                  / 
11 6     3920 1 1 e    11  I ^spent 'several 'days de:f\ending# .             / 
11 6     3930 1 1 e    11  not ^pr/osecuting def\ending# .                    / 
11 6     3940 1 1 e    11  I`s ^f\/ortunate e'nough#                          / 
11 6     3950 1 2 e    11  as ^far as [dhi] - _Warrant !\/Officer was         / 
11 6     3950 1 1 e    11  con'cerned# .                                      / 
11 6     3960 1 1 e    11  to ob^tain his com:plete . ac!qu\ittal# -          / 
11 6     3970 1 1 e    11  and [@] ^[?]I !think he :had been !fr\amed# .      / 
11 6     3980 1 1 e    11  but at the ^same !t\ime#                           / 
11 6     3990 1 1 e    11  it was ^very pr\oper# .                            / 
11 6     4000 1 1 e    11  that [dhi] ^prose!cution was :br\ought#            / 
11 6     4010 1 1 e    11  at ^general court :m\artial# .                     / 
11 6     4020 1 1 e    11  be^c\ause# .                                       / 
11 6     4030 1 1 e    11  ^there is "!n\othing# .                            / 
11 6     4040 1 1 e    11  which ^runs !thr\ough# .                           / 
11 6     4050 1 1 e    11  the ^s\/ervices#                                   / 
11 6     4060 1 1 e    11  or ^any 'other "body of :m\/en# .                  / 
11 6     4070 1 1 e    11  who are ^{l\iving} . :m\ales to{^g\ether#}# .      / 
11 6     4080 1 1 e    11  there`s ^nothing that :runs ":thr\ough# .          / 
11 6     4090 1 1 e    11  [@?] [m] ^body of :p\eople {^like a :v\/irus#}#    / 
11 6     4100 1 1 e    11  so ^{m/uch} . /as#                                 / 
11 6     4110 1 1 e    11  ^homo'sexu\ality# .                                / 
11 6     4120 1 2 e    12  [?@?] ^and [@] [i?] for "^that . r\eason           / 
11 6     4120 1 1 e    12  {a^l\/one#}#                                       / 
11 6     4130 1 1 e    11  [@?] ^I _would . "!v\/ery 'much opp\ose# .         / 
11 6     4140 1 2 e    11  [@?] [@?m?m?m?m] the ^noble :lord 'Lord            / 
11 6     4140 1 1 e    11  :Gr\a*ham`s#                                       / 
11 6     4150 1 1 s    20  *(cough)*                                          / 
11 6     4160 1 1(e    11  a*^m\endment# - - -                                / 
11 6     4170 1 1 s    20  (1 knock, throat clearing)                         / 
11 6     4180 1 1 f    11  my ^lords I "!think the :\/aim of [dhi:]#          / 
11 6     4190 1 1 f    11  ^noble :lord`s a!m\endment#                        / 
11 6     4200 1 1 f    11  is to re^m/ove#                                    / 
11 6     4210 1 1 f    11  the "^statutory pro:v/ision#                       / 
11 6     4220 1 1 f    11  which en^\ables#                                   / 
11 6     4230 1 1 f    11  homo^sexual :pr/actices#                           / 
11 6     4240 1 1 f    11  on the ^part of :members of the :armed !f\/orces# -/ 
11 6     4250 1 2 f    11  to be . "^charged as of:fences a_gainst the        / 
11 6     4250 1 1 f    11  'Service 'Discipline "![?]\Act# - .                / 
11 6     4260 1 1 f    11  at "^pr\esent#                                     / 
11 6     4270 1 1 f    11  the po^s\ition /is#                                / 
11 6     4280 1 1 f    11  that ^\/under the 'Service 'Discipline 'Acts# .    / 
11 6     4290 1 1 f    11  ^/all {^homo _homo_sexual _pr/actices#}#           / 
11 6     4300 1 1 f    11  in^v\olving# .                                     / 
11 6     4310 1 1 f    11  ^service 'personn/el# .                            / 
11 6     4320 1 1 f    11  con^tinue to 'be of:f\/ences# .                    / 
11 6     4330 1 1 f    11  re^gardless of the "!s=ex# .                       / 
11 6     4340 1 1 f    11  ^[?]/age#                                          / 
11 6     4350 1 1 f    11  ^or _willing con!{s\ent} of 'those in!!v\olved# -  / 
11 6     4360 1 1 f    11  ^S/\ection#                                        / 
11 6     4370 1 1 f    11  ^One[?] !F\/ive#                                   / 
11 6     4380 1 2 f    11  of the ^Sexual Of:{f\/ences 'Act} :Nineteen        / 
11 6     4380 1 1 f    11  'Sixty!s/even#                                     / 
11 6     4390 1 1 f    11  which ^/\other'wise#                               / 
11 6     4400 1 1 f    11  per^mitted !sexual 'acts . be!tw\een#              / 
11 6     4410 1 1 f    11  con^senting :adult _males in !pr/ivate# .          / 
11 6     4420 1 1 f    11  spe^cifically re:serves the po!s\ition# - .        / 
11 6     4430 1 1 f    11  the e^{x/emption} of [dhi:] . !f\/orces#           / 
11 6     4440 1 2 f    11  ^was in !recog'nition of the u:nique               / 
11 6     4440 1 1 f    11  'circum'stances . of :service !l\ife# .            / 
11 6     4450 1 1 f    11  ^servicemen and :service !w\omen# .                / 
11 6     4460 1 1 f    11  ^serve in con*:d/itions#*                          / 
11 6     4470 1 1 s    20  *(bop)*                                            / 
11 6     4480 1 1(f    11  ^where "!both _{/on} 'and 'off :d\/uty# .          / 
11 6     4490 1 2 f    11  ^they are !una!voidably {l/iving} in !close        / 
11 6     4490 1 1 f    11  pro:x\/imity# .                                    / 
11 6     4500 1 1 f    11  and ^some'times :under "!str\ess# -                / 
11 6     4510 1 1 f    11  in ad^d/ition# .                                   / 
11 6     4520 1 1 f    11  ^service . !l/ife#                                 / 
11 6     4530 1 2 f    11  par^ticularly in de!manding ope":rational          / 
11 6     4530 1 1 f    11  :c/ircum'stances# .                                / 
11 6     4540 1 1 f    11  re^{qu/ires} 'abso'lute :trust 'and !c\/onfidence# / 
11 6     4550 1 1 f    11  between "^\/all 'servicemen# .                     / 
11 6     4560 1 2 f    11  ^based 'on :disci'plined _and pro!fessional        / 
11 6     4560 1 1 f    11  re:l\ationships# -                                 / 
11 6     4570 1 1 f    11  ^this am/endment#                                  / 
11 6     4580 1 1 f    11  pro^p/oses#                                        / 
11 6     4590 1 1 f    11  [ei] ^more per!missive ap!pr\oach#                 / 
11 6     4600 1 1 f    11  to ^homo'sexu!/ality# -                            / 
11 6     4610 1 2 f    11  which the ^services and the :Government are        / 
11 6     4610 1 1 f    11  !qu\/ite 'clear#                                   / 
11 6     4620 1 3 f    11  would "^not 'be in the _interests of _good         / 
11 6     4620 1 2 f    11  :disci'pline . "!or the pro'fessional ef'ficiency  / 
11 6     4620 1 1 f    11  of the :services _[?]as a !wh\ole# - .             / 
11 6     4630 1 1 f    11  [dhi:] . Se^lect Com!m/ittee#                      / 
11 6     4640 1 1 f    11  of a^nother !pl/ace#                               / 
11 6     4650 1 1 f    11  con^sidered this _issue in !f\ull# * - *           / 
11 6     4660 1 1 s    20  *(sneeze)*                                         / 
11 6     4670 1 1(f    11  re^ceiving !/evidence#                             / 
11 6     4680 1 1 f    11  "^both from the :Ministry of Def/ence# -           / 
11 6     4690 1 3 f    11  ^and from 'bodies in :favour of al'lowing [ei]     / 
11 6     4690 1 2 f    11  _more per!missive ap'proach . to :homo'sexu'ality ./ 
11 6     4690 1 1 f    11  :in the 'armed !f\orces# - .                       / 
11 6     4700 1 1 f    11  the com^mittee . con!cl\uded# -                    / 
11 6     4710 1 2 f    11  and I re^fer your _lordships to _Para'graph        / 
11 6     4710 1 1 f    11  :Twentyf/\ive of 'this re'port# -                  / 
11 6     4720 1 1 f    11  that it would ^not be :w\ise# * . *                / 
11 6     4730 1 1 s    20  *(sneeze)*                                         / 
11 6     4740 1 1(f    11  to ^ch\ange#                                       / 
11 6     4750 1 1 f    11  the e^xisting l\aw# -                              / 
11 6     4760 1 1 f    11  my ^l/ords#                                        / 
11 6     4770 1 2 f    11  [dhi:] "^{G/overnment} a'grees "!f\/irmly with     / 
11 6     4770 1 1 f    11  'that con'clusion# .                               / 
11 6     4780 1 2 f    11  and I ^hope your 'lordships will :like'wise a:gr\ee/ 
11 6     4780 1 1 f    11  with it# - - -                                     / 
11 6     4790 1 1 ?    11  ^hear h\ear#                                       / 
11 6     4800 1 1 s    20  (background noise)                                 / 
11 6     4810 1 1 ?    20  ((1 syll)) ((5 sylls))                             / 
11 6     4820 1 1 a    11  my ^l\ords# * -                                    / 
11 6     4830 1 1 s    20  *(rustling papers)*                                / 
11 6     4840 1 1(a    11  I ^was 'hoping* for at 'least !\/one sup'porter#   / 
11 6     4850 1 1 a    11  but I ^didn`t 'hear !\one# -                       / 
11 6     4860 1 1 a    11  ^[/@:m]# .                                         / 
11 6     4870 1 1 a    11  ^n\o#                                              / 
11 6     4880 1 1 a    11  ^n/o#                                              / 
11 6     4890 1 1 a    12  ^well [?] [dhi] the ^\arguments I _think# -        / 
11 6     4900 1 1 a    11  de^serve [?] to :be depl\oyed# .                   / 
11 6     4910 1 2 a    11  [@?] I was in^trigued by the :noble 'Lord          / 
11 6     4910 1 1 a    11  :D\enning# -                                       / 
11 6     4920 1 1 a    11  ^who "!passionately dis:cl=osed# .                 / 
11 6     4930 1 1 a    11  ^where he 'stands on the :\issue# -                / 
11 6     4940 1 1 a    11  [@] [?]and ^c\ertainly#                            / 
11 6     4950 1 2 a    11  ^if he`d ":been in a:nother !place or !\in 'this   / 
11 6     4950 1 1 a    11  'place#                                            / 
11 6     4960 1 1 a    11  in ^nineteen :sixty!s\/even#                       / 
11 6     4970 1 2 a    11  he would have "^voted a:gainst . the :law of the   / 
11 6     4970 1 1 a    11  !!l\and# -                                         / 
11 6     4980 1 1 a    11  the im^pression he :g\ave#                         / 
11 6     4990 1 2 a    11  and I`m ^sure the of!ficial re'port will re!v\eal# / 
11 6     4990 1 1 a    11  -                                                  / 
11 6     5000 1 1 a    11  that . ^since 'nineteen 'sixtys/even# .            / 
11 6     5010 1 1 a    11  the ^l\aw of the l/and#                            / 
11 6     5020 1 1 a    11  is ^d\/ifferent . to the v\iews# -                 / 
11 6     5030 1 1 a    11  we`re ^not 'talking a'bout the _armed !s\/ervices# / 
11 6     5040 1 1 a    11  in ^my a!m\/endment I 'am#                         / 
11 6     5050 1 1 a    11  but the ^general [pr/e6mi:z] 'was# .               / 
11 6     5060 1 1 a    11  "^that the :act its/elf {^going _back to :L=ot#}# ./ 
11 6     5070 1 2 a    11  is a ^[hi:ni@s] . and [@] . :not [ei] :tolerable . / 
11 6     5070 1 1 a    11  [?]\act# .                                         / 
11 6     5080 1 1 a    11  so^c\/iety be'lieves# -                            / 
11 6     5090 1 1 a    11  "^n\/ow {since ^sixtys/even#}#                     / 
11 6     5100 1 2 a    11  that it "^is . '[?]under c/ertain c\ircum'stances# / 
11 6     5100 1 1 a    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     5110 1 1 a    11  ^what 'we`re /arguing a'bout# .                    / 
11 6     5120 1 1 a    11  is "^whether . 'members of the 'armed s/ervices# . / 
11 6     5130 1 2 a    11  ^are . en!{t/itled} 'to . '[?@:m] be :{/able} . to / 
11 6     5130 1 1 a    11  con:d\/uct them'selves#                            / 
11 6     5140 1 1 a    11  in the ^s\ame m/anner#                             / 
11 6     5150 1 1 a    13  ^as '[?]as '[?]as [?]as ^non . ^non s\ervicemen# . / 
11 6     5160 1 2 a    12  ^now '[?@:m] . ^the [@:??] in!tr\iguing            / 
11 6     5160 1 1 a    12  'situ/ation# .                                     / 
11 6     5170 1 1 a    11  ^which . 'was . :drawn /up# -                      / 
11 6     5180 1 2 a    11  ^was a'bout the "!nature '[?]of . '[dhi:] the      / 
11 6     5180 1 1 a    11  ":\unit# -                                         / 
11 6     5190 1 1 a    11  the "^cl\/osed 'unit# -                            / 
11 6     5200 1 1 a    11  ^that . _we en!v\isage# - .                        / 
11 6     5210 1 1 a    11  ^in 'which !homo'sexu=ality# -                     / 
11 6     5220 1 2 a    11  [@:] . would ^c\/ertainly 'be disr\uptive# * - - . / 
11 6     5220 1 1 a    11  *                                                  / 
11 6     5230 1 1 s    20  *(clinking of glass)*                              / 
11 6     5240 1 1(a    11  [dhi:] ^closed 'unit of 'nineteen 'fortyf/ive#     / 
11 6     5250 1 2 a    11  is ^different to the !closed _unit of !nineteen    / 
11 6     5250 1 1 a    11  !\eighty'five# -                                   / 
11 6     5260 1 1 a    11  the ^nature 'of [dhi:] . !people who !s\erve in it#/ 
11 6     5270 1 1 a    11  there are "^men _and "!w\omen# -                   / 
11 6     5280 1 1 a    11  ^far 'more 'women 'now than !m/\en# -              / 
11 6     5290 1 2 a    11  there are ^far 'more 'women . [?]on ":[?]active    / 
11 6     5290 1 1 a    11  !s\ervice# .                                       / 
11 6     5300 1 1 a    11  in ^nineteen _eightyf\ive# .                       / 
11 6     5310 1 1 a    11  than ^nineteen !f\orty'five# .                     / 
11 6     5320 1 2 a    11  ^so if we`re 'talking a'bout !conduct of a :sexual / 
11 6     5320 1 1 a    11  !n\ature# .                                        / 
11 6     5330 1 1 a    11  "^not the :act of :homo:sexu\ality# .              / 
11 6     5340 1 1 a    11  but "^conduct of a :sexual "!n\ature# .            / 
11 6     5350 1 1 a    11  ^wh/ich# .                                         / 
11 6     5360 1 2 a    11  by ^virtue of the :knowledge _that it was 'going   / 
11 6     5360 1 1 a    11  :\on# .                                            / 
11 6     5370 1 1 a    11  ^caused dis!r\uption#                              / 
11 6     5380 1 1 a    11  then my ^l/ords#                                   / 
11 6     5390 1 2 a    11  I ^v\enture to sugg/est . 'there are "m\any 'units#/ 
11 6     5390 1 1 a    11  -                                                  / 
11 6     5400 1 1 a    11  ^in !wh/ich# .                                     / 
11 6     5410 1 1 a    11  ^not 'only 'does it 'go ![?]/on#                   / 
11 6     5420 1 2 a    11  but [?]in ^which [?]it [?]is [o6?o6?]              / 
11 6     5420 1 1 a    11  "!kn=owledgeable . to the \others# -               / 
11 6     5430 1 1 a    11  be^tw=een# .                                       / 
11 6     5440 1 1 a    11  "^two l\overs# - .                                 / 
11 6     5450 1 1 a    11  ^two 'lovers _one "man and :one w\oman# -          / 
11 6     5460 1 2 a    11  ^we`re 'talking a'bout :two 'lovers 'who are _both / 
11 6     5460 1 1 a    11  m\en# -                                            / 
11 6     5470 1 1 a    11  and ^wh\/at we`re 'saying 'is#                     / 
11 6     5480 1 1 a    11  that ^in a "!!closed \unit# -                      / 
11 6     5490 1 1 a    11  in ^which there :are "_men and :w\omen# -          / 
11 6     5500 1 2 a    11  ((we`re)) ^not !!talking a'bout the                / 
11 6     5500 1 1 a    11  :b\/arrack'room# .                                 / 
11 6     5510 1 1 a    11  we`re ^talking a'bout the :\unit# .                / 
11 6     5520 1 1 a    11  where it`s ^c=ommon 'knowledge# .                  / 
11 6     5530 1 1 a    11  and ^either "!damage can be 'done or \other'wise# ./ 
11 6     5540 1 1 a    11  we`re *^talking in 'terms of a :s\/exual* 'act# .  / 
11 6     5550 1 1 s    20  *(knocks with fist in time with speech rhythm)*    / 
11 6     5560 1 2(a    11  be^{tw\een} !two 'people . that is "!!n\/ot        / 
11 6     5560 1 1(a    11  dis'ruptive# - .                                   / 
11 6     5570 1 1 a    11  ^i !/e# -                                          / 
11 6     5580 1 2 a    11  ^if not per:{m\issiveness} . or :promis{c\/uity} . / 
11 6     5580 1 1 a    11  a":d\/ultery# -                                    / 
11 6     5590 1 1 a    11  and ^that ap{p=arently} - _is of !n\/o con'cern# - / 
11 6     5600 1 1 a    11  but a^n\other 'act {be^tw\een#}# .                 / 
11 6     5610 1 1 a    11  ^two l/overs# -                                    / 
11 6     5620 1 1 a    11  ^two !m/en# -                                      / 
11 6     5630 1 1 a    11  "^or 'two w/omen# -                                / 
11 6     5640 1 1 a    11  ap"^parently . /is# .                              / 
11 6     5650 1 1 a    11  ^not 'only :l\/ikely 'to#                          / 
11 6     5660 1 1 a    11  but ^certain to !l\ead# -                          / 
11 6     5670 1 1 a    11  ^to . [@] "!d/amage# .                             / 
11 6     5680 1 1 a    11  to [dhi:] ^viab/ility# .                           / 
11 6     5690 1 1 a    11  ^and [dhi:] . !fighting :capa:b=ility# .           / 
11 6     5700 1 1 a    11  ^of the !\unit#                                    / 
11 6     5710 1 1 a    11  ^I 'simply :s=ay# -                                / 
11 6     5720 1 1 a    12  ^I 'I [a] ^I beg 'leave to :d\oubt# .              / 
11 6     5730 1 1 a    11  the ^noble 'Lord - :M/ay'hew# .                    / 
11 6     5740 1 3 a    11  ^talks in 'terms _of . :whether in 'fact . we have / 
11 6     5740 1 2 a    11  :any 'knowledge that [dhi:] - !members of the      / 
11 6     5740 1 1 a    11  :armed !services "!w\ant . {^this ch\arge#}# .     / 
11 6     5750 1 1 a    12  ^[?a?a] ^I 'certainly 'have n\ot#                  / 
11 6     5760 1 1 a    11  ^one of [dhi:] . :matters we`ll "!turn to !l=ater# / 
11 6     5770 1 1 a    11  is the ^question of :trade 'union m\embership# .   / 
11 6     5780 1 2 a    11  and the ^way in 'which [?] !we 'as .               / 
11 6     5780 1 1 a    11  :l\/egislators#                                    / 
11 6     5790 1 2 a    11  are ^made !privy to :what the 'armed 'services     / 
11 6     5790 1 1 a    11  _{w/ant} !not [?]\/only on 'this#                  / 
11 6     5800 1 1 a    11  ^on a 'range of _other _m\atters# .                / 
11 6     5810 1 1 a    12  [@?] ^certainly . [@:] . ^c\ouldn`t 'there#        / 
11 6     5820 1 2 a    12  when ^I I ^used a 'phrase :{\/earlier} . _that     / 
11 6     5820 1 1 a    12  [dhi:] !w\/itness had 'said# .                     / 
11 6     5830 1 1 a    11  that ^\/one of the 'reasons 'was#                  / 
11 6     5840 1 1 a    11  that ^this . 'was [ei] !cl\/osed so'ciety#         / 
11 6     5850 1 1 a    11  with re^sp/ect#                                    / 
11 6     5860 1 1 a    11  I ^didn`t s/ay# .                                  / 
11 6     5870 1 1 a    11  ^that . !there are ![?]\others#                    / 
11 6     5880 1 2 a    11  I ^simply 'said :this is 'not . [?] the "!\only    / 
11 6     5880 1 1 a    11  {^closed soc\iety#}# - .                           / 
11 6     5890 1 1 a    11  [@:] ^take !pr/\isons# - .                         / 
11 6     5900 1 1 a    11  ^who are not g/overned#                            / 
11 6     5910 1 1 a    11  ^by the l/aws#                                     / 
11 6     5920 1 1 a    11  of the ^armed s/ervices# -                         / 
11 6     5930 1 1 a    11  [@:] I ^stand to be cor!r/ected# .                 / 
11 6     5940 1 2 a    11  but I be"^lieve . that :that`s in a :different     / 
11 6     5940 1 1 a    11  !c/ategory# -                                      / 
11 6     5950 1 2 a    11  there are ^many . _{\units} out:s\ide {^of         / 
11 6     5950 1 1 a    11  so:c\iety#}#                                       / 
11 6     5960 1 2 a    12  that are ^looked u'pon !literally as ^you((`ll))   / 
11 6     5960 1 1 a    12  !take uni!v\ersities# -                            / 
11 6     5970 1 2 a    11  which are ^looked u'pon as . ":closed              / 
11 6     5970 1 1 a    11  com!m\unities# .                                   / 
11 6     5980 1 1 a    11  and ^that was the 'phrase _used by the !w\itness#  / 
11 6     5990 1 1 a    11  a "^closed com!!m\unity# .                         / 
11 6     6000 1 1 a    11  ^where in :actual f\act# .                         / 
11 6     6010 1 2 a    11  there ^is [iz @s] 'freedom [@:] :[?o6 ?o6 u ?@] :of/ 
11 6     6010 1 1 a    11  this k\ind# .                                      / 
11 6     6020 1 2 a    11  the ^noble 'Lord 'May'hew [?]is :abso'lutely       / 
11 6     6020 1 1 a    11  !r\ight of 'course# .                              / 
11 6     6030 1 1 a    11  that ^what I was :t\/alking a'bout . {^w/as#}#     / 
11 6     6040 1 1 a    11  the ex^tent to 'which . :one can - "!fr\ee#        / 
11 6     6050 1 1 a    11  [?] ^from "!hither"to ta":b\oos# .                 / 
11 6     6060 1 1 a    11  ^the [?]a!bili'ty of !two p/eople#                 / 
11 6     6070 1 1 a    11  ^men or w/omen# .                                  / 
11 6     6080 1 2 a    11  who ^wish to 'act :differently to the              / 
11 6     6080 1 1 a    11  !h\/etero'sexual# -                                / 
11 6     6090 1 1 a    11  and ^still not end/anger# .                        / 
11 6     6100 1 2 a    12  good ^order [?]and 'public [@?] ^good 'order [?]and/ 
11 6     6100 1 1 a    12  d\iscipline#                                       / 
11 6     6110 1 1 a    11  and I ^d\/o ap'preciate# .                         / 
11 6     6120 1 1 a    11  that "^that is a m=atter#                          / 
11 6     6130 1 1 a    11  which ^certainly is not :easy 'to de!f\ine# .      / 
11 6     6140 1 1 a    11  but I`m ^grateful to [dhi:] :H/ouse#               / 
11 6     6150 1 1 a    11  ^not 'least to the :M/inister# .                   / 
11 6     6160 1 1 a    11  ^for !having . !t\/aken 'part# .                   / 
11 6     6170 1 1 a    11  in this ^sh\/ort de'bate#                          / 
11 6     6180 1 2 a    11  ^I . may !well come 'back to the _issue [?]on      / 
11 6     6180 1 1 a    11  re:p/ort#                                          / 
11 6     6190 1 2 a    11  but ^at this 'stage . I :beg 'leave to with:draw   / 
11 6     6190 1 1 a    11  the am\endment# - -                                / 
11 6     6200 1 2 b    11  your ^lordships` 'pleasure the a'mendment be       / 
11 6     6200 1 1 b    11  withdr/awn# .                                      / 
11 6     6210 1 1 b    11  a^mendment by :l/eave#                             / 
11 6     6220 1 1 b    11  with^dr\awn#                                       / 
11 6     6230 1 2 b    11  the ^question 'is that :Clause "!F\ive 'stand 'part/ 
11 6     6230 1 1 b    11  of the 'bill#                                      / 
11 6     6240 1 1 b    11  as ^many of 'that o:pinion ((you)) 'say con":t/ent#/ 
11 6     6250 1 1 ?    20  ((content))                                        / 
11 6     6260 1 1 b    11  ^contrary not con:t=ent#                           / 
11 6     6270 1 1 b    11  the con^tents !h\ave it#                           / 
11 6     6280 1 2 b    11  the ^question _is that !Clause "!S\ix 'stand 'part / 
11 6     6280 1 1 b    11  of the 'bill#                                      / 
11 6     6290 1 2 b    11  as ^many of that o:pinion ((of you)) 'say          / 
11 6     6290 1 1 b    11  con:t/ent#                                         / 
11 6     6300 1 1 ?    20  ((content))                                        / 
11 6     6310 1 1 b    11  ^contrary 'not con:t=ent#                          / 
11 6     6320 1 1 b    11  the con^tents h\ave it# .                          / 
11 6     6330 1 2 b    11  the ^question 'is that :Clause "!S\even . 'stand   / 
11 6     6330 1 1 b    11  _part of the 'bill#                                / 
11 6     6340 1 1 b    11  as ^many of that o:pinion of you 'say con:t/ent#   / 
11 6     6350 1 1 ?    20  ((content))                                        / 
11 6     6360 1 1 b    11  ^contrary 'not con:t/ent#                          / 
11 6     6370 1 1 b    11  the con^tents h\ave it# -                          / 
11 6     6380 1 1 b    11  ^after 'Clause :S/even# .                          / 
11 6     6390 1 1 b    11  ((would you)) in^sert a :new cl/ause# .            / 
11 6     6400 1 1 b    11  ^Lord !Gr/aham# .                                  / 
11 6     6410 1 1 b    11  of ^\Edmonton# - -                                 / 
11 6     6420 1 3 a    13  my ^lords - !this [?] . I be^lieve . ^[?]ought to  / 
11 6     6420 1 2 a    13  be :{c\/apable} . of :being ac!c\/epted by the     / 
11 6     6420 1 1 a    13  'Minister# -                                       / 
11 6     6430 1 1 a    11  be^c/ause# -                                       / 
11 6     6440 1 1 ?    20  ((several sylls))                                  / 
11 6     6450 1 1 a    11  ^{/\even if} I`m !wr\/ong#                         / 
11 6     6460 1 1 a    11  I`ll ^st=ill# .                                    / 
11 6     6470 1 1 a    11  con^tinue with the att\empt#                       / 
11 6     6480 1 1 a    11  a^g\ain#                                           / 
11 6     6490 1 1 a    11  we`re ^seeking to ap'ply to :s\/ervice 'life#      / 
11 6     6500 1 1 a    11  as ^much as p/ossible of 'what# -                  / 
11 6     6510 1 1 a    11  ^is the _situ'ation . _in . !pr\ivate 'life# .     / 
11 6     6520 1 1 a    11  ^[?]in [?]in [?]in ci!v\ilian 'life# -             / 
11 6     6530 1 1 a    11  and "^my 'case was m/ade#                          / 
11 6     6540 1 1 a    11  by the ^noble :Lord \Elton# - .                    / 
11 6     6550 1 1 a    11  ^wh\en#                                            / 
11 6     6560 1 2 a    11  [?]at ^second 'reading of The :Prose'cution of .   / 
11 6     6560 1 1 a    11  [?]Of!f\/ences 'Bill# - -                          / 
11 6     6570 1 2 a    11  on the ^twenty'ninth of No:vember :nine'teen       / 
11 6     6570 1 1 a    11  _eightyf/our#                                      / 
11 6     6580 1 1 a    11  ^this is _what he s\aid# - .                       / 
11 6     6590 1 1 a    11  the ^third of the !principal innov/ations#         / 
11 6     6600 1 1 a    11  to be ^brought a\bout by the b/ill# .              / 
11 6     6610 1 1 a    11  gives ef^fect to :our comm\itment#                 / 
11 6     6620 1 2 a    11  to ^move to'wards a :system of !statutory !t\ime   / 
11 6     6620 1 1 a    11  'limits . {in ^criminal proc\eedings#}# -          / 
11 6     6630 1 1 a    11  your ^lordship will re:member h/ow#                / 
11 6     6640 1 2 a    11  through^out the pro:ceedings [ovn7] the Po":lice . / 
11 6     6640 1 1 a    11  and :Criminal !\Evidence /Act# .                   / 
11 6     6650 1 2 a    11  we con^sidered a _great 'many :difficulties and    / 
11 6     6650 1 1 a    11  an\omalies# .                                      / 
11 6     6660 1 1 a    11  ^many of wh/ich#                                   / 
11 6     6670 1 2 a    11  con^cerned the way in which a sus!p\/ected         / 
11 6     6670 1 1 a    11  of'fender# .                                       / 
11 6     6680 1 1 s    20  (door squeaks)                                     / 
11 6     6690 2 1(a    21  is ^taken _in'to                                   / 
11 6     6700 1 1 s    20  (door bangs)                                       / 
11 6     6690 1 1(a    11  [dhi:] :criminal 'justice s\ystem# .               / 
11 6     6710 1 1 s    20  (door squeaks)                                     / 
11 6     6720 1 1(a    11  and "^how 'he is :h=andled# .                      / 
11 6     6730 1 1 a    11  ^there"!\after# -                                  / 
11 6     6740 1 2 a    11  we ^gave !each of these :questions our "!close and / 
11 6     6740 1 1 a    11  :detailed at:tention in t\urn# -                   / 
11 6     6750 1 1 a    11  "^[?]\our prop/osal# .                             / 
11 6     6760 1 2 a    11  is to pre^pare for the de!velopment "trial and     / 
11 6     6760 1 1 a    11  im:pr\ovement# .                                   / 
11 6     6770 1 1 a    11  of a ^set of !statutory :l\imits#                  / 
11 6     6780 1 1 a    11  to the "^length of t/ime# .                        / 
11 6     6790 1 2 a    11  that ^can be !{sp/ent} [?]on the pre:l\/iminary .  / 
11 6     6790 1 1 a    11  {^that is to 'say the :pre'trial st/ages#}# .      / 
11 6     6800 1 1 a    11  of ^criminal 'prosec\utions# .                     / 
11 6     6810 1 1 a    11  ^these st/ages#                                    / 
11 6     6820 1 1 a    11  are ^fairly "c\omplex# .                           / 
11 6     6830 1 2 a    11  and the con^sider'ations can _vary !{w\idely} from / 
11 6     6830 1 1 a    11  :case to c\ase# -                                  / 
11 6     6840 1 1 a    11  ^m\/ore'over# .                                    / 
11 6     6850 1 1 a    11  the ^concept 'that we :w\/ish to ap'ply#           / 
11 6     6860 1 1 a    11  is ^new . to :English [?] "l\aw# .                 / 
11 6     6870 1 1 a    11  ^what the 'bill ":d\/oes 'there'fore#              / 
11 6     6880 1 1 a    11  is to ^set up an "!order'making "p\ower# .         / 
11 6     6890 1 1 a    11  and a "^frame'work with:\/in 'which#               / 
11 6     6900 1 1 a    11  it ^can be "!\exer'cised# .                        / 
11 6     6910 1 1 a    11  ^when 'that 'frame'work is in :pl/ace# .           / 
11 6     6920 1 1 a    11  the ^Home 'Secretary will !\/use the 'power# .     / 
11 6     6930 1 2 a    11  in the ^light [?]of ((the)) re:sults of the f\/ield/ 
11 6     6930 1 1 a    11  'trials# .                                         / 
11 6     6940 1 1 a    11  ^which he will cond\uct# -                         / 
11 6     6950 1 1 a    11  my ^l/ords# .                                      / 
11 6     6960 1 1 a    11  at a ^later 'stage on 'that . :b/ill# .            / 
11 6     6970 1 1 a    11  the ^noble 'Lord !D\onaldson# -                    / 
11 6     6980 1 1 a    11  ^s=aid# .                                          / 
11 6     6990 1 1 a    11  on the ^twenty'fourth of ":J\/anuary# -            / 
11 6     7000 1 1 a    11  the ef"^fect . is a :perfectly "s\imple 'one# .    / 
11 6     7010 1 1 a    11  ^it will 'be a "!choice be:tween _two \evils#      / 
11 6     7020 1 2 a    11  would you ^rather 'have a !large 'number of 'people/ 
11 6     7020 1 1 a    11  :kept in pr/ison# .                                / 
11 6     7030 1 1 a    11  ^when they 'should "!n\/ot be 'there# .            / 
11 6     7040 1 2 a    11  or would you ^rather 'have an ap!proximately       / 
11 6     7040 1 1 a    11  !similar 'number of :p/eople#                      / 
11 6     7050 1 1 a    11  ^out 'on b/ail#                                    / 
11 6     7060 1 1 a    11  for ^longer 'than _they _would \/other'wise b\e#   / 
11 6     7070 1 1 a    11  ^it is as !simple as th\at#                        / 
11 6     7080 1 1 a    11  you can ^do "!one 'or the \other# .                / 
11 6     7090 1 1 a    11  "^m\/y 'view#                                      / 
11 6     7100 1 1 a    11  is ^that the ![?]=evil#                            / 
11 6     7110 1 1 a    11  of ^keeping in "pr\ison#                           / 
11 6     7120 1 1 a    11  ^people 'who :should !!n\/ot be 'there# .          / 
11 6     7130 1 1 a    11  is ^w/orse#                                        / 
11 6     7140 1 1 a    11  ^than the ac!kn\owledged /evil# .                  / 
11 6     7150 1 1 a    11  of ^putting 'people !b\/ack on 'bail# .            / 
11 6     7160 1 1 a    11  in ^order to 'bring . :other . _cases f\orward#    / 
11 6     7170 1 1 a    11  and ^r\/eally# .                                   / 
11 6     7180 1 1 a    11  [@] al^though the a!m=endment#                     / 
11 6     7190 1 1 a    11  is ^l=engthy#                                      / 
11 6     7200 1 1 a    11  and a^gain I re:p=eat#                             / 
11 6     7210 1 1 a    11  al^though it was :given to :m/e#                   / 
11 6     7220 1 1 a    11  by an ^eminent 'out'side :b/ody#                   / 
11 6     7230 1 2 a    12  ^[@:m] '[dhi:] [@?] there ^may be :errors in       / 
11 6     7230 1 1 a    12  :dr/afting# .                                      / 
11 6     7240 1 1 a    11  in "^\/essence#                                    / 
11 6     7250 1 1 a    11  ^what I`m s\/eeking to 'do#                        / 
11 6     7260 1 1 a    11  ^is to !make a:v/ailable#                          / 
11 6     7270 1 2 a    11  to ^those who _face :charges _in - !s\/ervice      / 
11 6     7270 1 1 a    11  'life# .                                           / 
11 6     7280 1 1 a    11  to ^have the !same "l\/aw#                         / 
11 6     7290 1 1 a    11  ap"^plied !t\o them#                               / 
11 6     7300 1 1 a    11  ^as ap!plies to :non 'service :personn\el#         / 
11 6     7310 1 1 a    11  I ^beg to m\ove#                                   / 
11 6     7320 1 1 b    11  a^mendment pro:p/osed#                             / 
11 6     7330 1 1 b    11  to in^sert the !new cl/ause#                       / 
11 6     7340 1 1 b    11  ^{/as} pr/inted#                                   / 
11 6     7350 1 1 f    11  my ^l\ords [@m]# - -                               / 
11 6     7360 1 1 f    11  I ap^pr\/eciate#                                   / 
11 6     7370 1 1 f    11  that the ^noble 'lord`s in:t\ention#               / 
11 6     7380 1 1 f    11  in ^putting :d\/own this a'mendment# .             / 
11 6     7390 1 1 f    11  is to ^bring 'ser[f]ice :s\ervice :l/aw#           / 
11 6     7400 1 1 f    11  into ^line with the pro:visions which ap:pl\/y#    / 
11 6     7410 1 2 f    11  '[tu] [dhi:] ^prose'cution of of:fences in .       / 
11 6     7410 1 1 f    11  England and :W\ales#                               / 
11 6     7420 1 1 f    11  as the ^noble :lord made "!cl\/ear# -              / 
11 6     7430 1 1 f    11  his a^mendment is :based !very cl/osely#           / 
11 6     7440 1 2 f    11  on ^Section 'Twenty":two of the :Prose'cution of   / 
11 6     7440 1 1 f    11  Of!f\/ences 'Act# .                                / 
11 6     7450 1 1 f    11  ^Nineteen 'Eighty"!f\ive#                          / 
11 6     7460 1 1 f    11  ^th\/at 'section#                                  / 
11 6     7470 1 1 f    12  en^\abled . the ^Home S/ecretary#                  / 
11 6     7480 1 2 f    11  to . ^make regu:lations . con!cerning !t\/ime      / 
11 6     7480 1 1 f    11  'limits#                                           / 
11 6     7490 1 1 f    11  for ^tr\/ial# .                                    / 
11 6     7500 1 2 f    11  in the ci^vilian :criminal _courts in _England and / 
11 6     7500 1 1 f    11  :W\ales# .                                         / 
11 6     7510 1 1 f    11  it ^was an en!tirely !n\/ew de'parture# .          / 
11 6     7520 1 2 f    11  since ^previously :there had been !n\o             / 
11 6     7520 1 1 f    11  {pro^v\ision#}#                                    / 
11 6     7530 1 1 f    11  to ap^{pl\y} !t\ime 'limits of this {^n\ature#}# - / 
11 6     7540 1 1 f    11  in "^th\/is res'pect#                              / 
11 6     7550 1 1 f    11  the ^general "cr=iminal 'law#                      / 
11 6     7560 1 1 f    11  "^d\iffered#                                       / 
11 6     7570 1 1 f    11  from ^s\ervice 'law and _regul/ations#             / 
11 6     7580 1 1 f    11  which al^ready con:t\ain#                          / 
11 6     7590 1 1 f    11  a ^number of :[prvikn7ts] . ex{^c\/use 'me#}#      / 
11 6     7600 1 1 f    12  de^signed to [@d:vo7i] a"^v\oid del/ays#           / 
11 6     7610 1 1 f    11  in ^bringing :cases to tr/ial# * -                 / 
11 6     7620 1 1 s    20  *(coughs in background)*                           / 
11 6     7630 1 2(f    11  and ^lengthy 'periods* in :{c\ustody} . "pr\ior to / 
11 6     7630 1 1(f    11  'trial [ts] ^th\/ese pro'visions#                  / 
11 6     7640 1 1 f    11  in^clude 'regu:l/ations#                           / 
11 6     7650 1 2 f    11  which en^sure that !charges must be in:vesti'gated / 
11 6     7650 1 1 f    11  !qu\/ickly# .                                      / 
11 6     7660 1 1 f    11  wi^thout . a'voidable de:l\ay#                     / 
11 6     7670 1 2 f    11  in the ^case of the :[?]Army and . _Royal !\/Air   / 
11 6     7670 1 1 f    11  'Force# .                                          / 
11 6     7680 1 1 f    11  a ^person !must be br/ought#                       / 
11 6     7690 1 1 f    11  be^f\ore his com'manding /officer#                 / 
11 6     7700 1 1 f    11  "^\/and 'charged# .                                / 
11 6     7710 1 1 f    11  with^in !fortyeight 'hours of :being ar!r\ested# - / 
11 6     7720 1 2 f    11  ^this com:pares with the !ninety"!s\/ix 'hour      / 
11 6     7720 1 1 f    11  'maximum#                                          / 
11 6     7730 1 1 f    11  a^v=ailable#                                       / 
11 6     7740 1 1 f    11  to the ci^v\ilian po:l/ice#                        / 
11 6     7750 1 1 f    11  ^under the Po!lice and :Criminal !\/Evidence 'Act# / 
11 6     7760 1 1 f    11  of ^nineteen 'eighty!f\our# -                      / 
11 6     7770 1 1 f    11  there are ^[?]\also prov/isions#                   / 
11 6     7780 1 1 f    11  which en^s\ure#                                    / 
11 6     7790 1 1 f    11  that ^if an ac'cused :p\erson#                     / 
11 6     7800 1 1 f    11  is "^held for :more than "!eight "d\ays#           / 
11 6     7810 1 1 f    11  wi^thout a !trial 'being be"!g\/un# -              / 
11 6     7820 1 1 f    11  ^this 'fact :must be rep\orted#                    / 
11 6     7830 1 1 f    11  to ^higher au!th\ority# -                          / 
11 6     7840 1 2 f    11  in the ^case of the :Army and the _Royal !/Air     / 
11 6     7840 1 1 f    11  'Force#                                            / 
11 6     7850 1 1 f    11  there ^is pro!v/ision#                             / 
11 6     7860 1 2 f    11  that [ei] ^person should !not be 'held in ar:rest  / 
11 6     7860 1 1 f    11  for 'more than _seventy!tw\/o 'days# .             / 
11 6     7870 1 1 f    11  ^pending :tr\/ial#                                 / 
11 6     7880 1 1 f    11  with^out per'mission . from :higher au!th\ority#   / 
11 6     7890 1 2 f    11  and the ^higher au:thority in :th\at 'case . my    / 
11 6     7890 1 1 f    11  l/ords is m\e#                                     / 
11 6     7900 1 1 f    11  in the ^case of the :N\/avy# .                     / 
11 6     7910 1 1 f    11  the e^qu\ivalent prov/ision#                       / 
11 6     7920 1 1 f    11  ^[?]is for _up to . !n\inety 'days# .              / 
11 6     7930 1 1 f    11  [?] . I "^{str/ess} that _these pro:v/isions#      / 
11 6     7940 1 1 f    11  al^r\/eady e'xist#                                 / 
11 6     7950 1 1 f    11  ^under 'service !l/aw# -                           / 
11 6     7960 1 1 f    11  ^and 'regu:l/ations#                               / 
11 6     7970 1 2 f    11  ^and their ef!fect is to en:sure that !trials under/ 
11 6     7970 1 1 f    11  :service l/aw# .                                   / 
11 6     7980 1 1 f    11  are ^not . un'duly de!l\ayed# -                    / 
11 6     7990 1 1 f    11  [?] - ^I should !\/also ex'plain#                  / 
11 6     8000 1 1 f    11  that ^these pro:v/isions#                          / 
11 6     8010 1 1 f    11  are ^kept under re:v/iew#                          / 
11 6     8020 1 2 f    11  and ^that !my de_partment . is !certainly !not     / 
11 6     8020 1 1 f    11  av\erse#                                           / 
11 6     8030 1 1 f    11  to the con^side'ration of :w\ays# .                / 
11 6     8040 1 2 f    11  in which ^these pro_cedures !could be im:proved and/ 
11 6     8040 1 1 f    11  !str\engthened# - .                                / 
11 6     8050 1 1 f    11  "^c\/onse'quently#                                 / 
11 6     8060 1 3 f    11  I ^may 'say 'that [@] . [?]I have :found [dhi:] .  / 
11 6     8060 1 2 f    11  :noble lord`s a:mendment to be 'very               / 
11 6     8060 1 1 f    11  !\/interesting# -                                  / 
11 6     8070 1 1 f    11  and ^I .[m6] "!can ass/ure him#                    / 
11 6     8080 1 2 f    11  that`s ^something we`d _want to :keep . [?] [?]in  / 
11 6     8080 1 1 f    11  m\/ind# .                                          / 
11 6     8090 1 1 f    11  for the ^f\uture# .                                / 
11 6     8100 1 1 f    11  [?] how^\ever#                                     / 
11 6     8110 1 1 f    11  ^as !he will no !doubt . be a:w\/are#              / 
11 6     8120 1 2 f    11  my ^right honourable :friend the 'Home             / 
11 6     8120 1 1 f    11  :S\/ecretary# -                                    / 
11 6     8130 1 1 f    11  ^has as !yet 'made :no regu!l\ations#              / 
11 6     8140 1 2 f    11  ^under the !relevant 'section . of the :Prosecution/ 
11 6     8140 1 1 f    11  of Of!f\ences 'Act#                                / 
11 6     8150 1 1 f    11  I ^under'stand that "!tr\ials#                     / 
11 6     8160 1 1 f    11  are at ^pr\/esent 'under 'way#                     / 
11 6     8170 1 1 f    11  in "^f\/our se'lected 'areas# -                    / 
11 6     8180 1 1 f    11  and that ^these 'trials will con:t\inue#           / 
11 6     8190 1 1 f    11  un^til the 'end of 'next ":m\onth# - .             / 
11 6     8200 1 1 f    11  ^there:=after#                                     / 
11 6     8210 1 1 f    11  the re^sults`ll be "!carefully :\/ana'lysed#       / 
11 6     8220 1 1 f    11  be^fore the :next . 'step [?]is de"!t\ermined# - . / 
11 6     8230 1 1 f    11  [?]^my de'partment "!will be /interested#          / 
11 6     8240 1 1 f    11  in the ^out'come of 'these !tr/ials#               / 
11 6     8250 1 1 f    11  and of ^any f\urther dev/elopments#                / 
11 6     8260 1 2 f    11  in ^this '[?]area . *of the* ci:vilian . :criminal / 
11 6     8260 1 1 f    11  . !l\aw# -                                         / 
11 6     8270 1 1 s    20  *(background cough)*                               / 
11 6     8280 1 1(f    11  ^once the 'way a!h\/ead in this 'area#             / 
11 6     8290 1 1 f    11  [?]is ^cl/ear# .                                   / 
11 6     8300 2 2 f    21  *we ^shall of 'course wish to :[k@nt@"sid@]*       / 
11 6     8300 2 1 f    21  whether to a:dopt them in                          / 
11 6     8310 1 1 s    20  *(noise of turning pages)*                         / 
11 6     8300 1 2(f    11  the :rather - !d/\ifferent pro'cedures of _service / 
11 6     8300 1 1(f    11  l/aw# .                                            / 
11 6     8320 1 1 f    11  and the "^best 'way of :d\oing s/o# -              / 
11 6     8330 1 1 f    11  ^bearing in :m\ind#                                / 
11 6     8340 1 2 f    11  the pro^visions which al:ready e!x\ist in 'service / 
11 6     8340 1 1 f    11  'law# -                                            / 
11 6     8350 1 1 f    11  [?] - in the ^meant/ime#                           / 
11 6     8360 1 1 f    11  I be^lieve it 'would be :premat\ure#               / 
11 6     8370 1 1 f    11  to ^{t\ie} !s\ervice l/aw#                         / 
11 6     8380 1 2 f    11  to pro^{c\edures} - re:{fl\ected} _in _[dhi:] .    / 
11 6     8380 1 1 f    11  _noble 'lord`s a:m\endment#                        / 
11 6     8390 1 1 f    11  ^these pro_c/edures#                               / 
11 6     8400 1 1 f    11  were de^v/eloped {spe"^c/ifically#}#               / 
11 6     8410 1 1 f    11  for [dhi:] ci^v\ilian 'criminal l/aw#              / 
11 6     8420 1 1 f    11  and "^as "dr\/afted# .                             / 
11 6     8430 1 1 f    11  ^would be un"!w\/orkable# .                        / 
11 6     8440 1 1 f    11  in re^lation to "!s\ervice 'law# -                 / 
11 6     8450 1 1 f    11  ^with "th\is . {^explan\ation#}#                   / 
11 6     8460 1 1 f    11  of our ob^jections to his a:m/endment#             / 
11 6     8470 1 1 f    11  and my . as^surance that :th=is#                   / 
11 6     8480 1 2 f    11  is a ^matter 'which we shall :want to 'keep under  / 
11 6     8480 1 1 f    11  "!close rev\iew# -                                 / 
11 6     8490 1 1 f    11  I "^h\/ope the 'noble 'lord# .                     / 
11 6     8500 1 1 f    11  will ^feel :\/able# -                              / 
11 6     8510 1 1 f    11  to ^seek 'leave to with:draw his a!m\endment#      / 
11 6     8520 1 1 g    11  my ^l/ords#                                        / 
11 6     8530 1 1 g    11  [@] [dhi:] de^c/ision#                             / 
11 6     8540 1 2 g    11  to in^clude in the Prose:cution of Of":f\ences     / 
11 6     8540 1 1 g    11  {"^B\/ill#}# - .                                   / 
11 6     8550 1 1 g    11  ^time "l\imits# -                                  / 
11 6     8560 1 1 g    11  for the ^br\/inging of 'prose'cutions#             / 
11 6     8570 1 1 g    11  ^was a !very im'portant de:v\elop[bn7t]#           / 
11 6     8580 1 1 g    11  in our ^criminal law and our :cr/iminal !s\ystem# -/ 
11 6     8590 1 2 g    12  ^and [@?] - [?@??] [u] the ^House will 'be [@] .   / 
11 6     8590 1 1 g    12  :reas!s/\ured by#                                  / 
11 6     8600 1 2 g    11  ^what the !noble . [@?m] :Lord [tr@] !Tr\ef'garne  / 
11 6     8600 1 1 g    11  has {^s\/aid#}# .                                  / 
11 6     8610 1 1 g    11  that it ^will be the in!t\ention# .                / 
11 6     8620 1 1 g    11  in the ^light of the "tri/als#                     / 
11 6     8630 1 2 g    11  [?a6 ?a6 ?a6 ?a6 ?a6 ?a6i] ex^peri!{m\ental} [?@ ?@/ 
11 6     8630 1 1 g    11  ?i] in:vesti!g\ations#                             / 
11 6     8640 1 2 g    11  of ^how this is !w\orked in the {^civil :f\/ield#}#/ 
11 6     8640 1 1 g    11  .                                                  / 
11 6     8650 1 1 g    11  would be pre^pared to . con!!s/\ider# .            / 
11 6     8660 1 1 g    11  the ^possible :appli!c\ation# -                    / 
11 6     8670 1 2 g    12  of the ^same . [?@] [ah] of the ^same "!{k\ind} of / 
11 6     8670 1 1 g    12  con:tr\/ols# .                                     / 
11 6     8680 1 1 g    11  ^in'to the :field of 'military !l\aw#              / 
11 6     8690 1 1 g    11  it ^\is the c/ase#                                 / 
11 6     8700 1 1 g    12  ^that [@?] there ^are 'time 'limits al!r\eady# .   / 
11 6     8710 1 2 g    11  as the ^noble [l7l6] :lord has _said in . !s\/ome  / 
11 6     8710 1 1 g    11  'aspects of#                                       / 
11 6     8720 1 2 g    12  ^military [m@]^military and . !n\/aval pro'ceedings/ 
11 6     8720 1 1 g    12  \also# .                                           / 
11 6     8730 1 2 g    11  [ae] [?]and I ^hope [?@] [?]ac:{c\/ordingly} that  / 
11 6     8730 1 1 g    11  my :noble fr/iend#                                 / 
11 6     8740 1 1 g    11  ^m\ay#                                             / 
11 6     8750 1 1 g    11  in in the ^light of the as!s\urance# -             / 
11 6     8760 1 2 g    11  ^that [@] . _what is !happening in the :civil      / 
11 6     8760 1 1 g    11  !f\/ield# .                                        / 
11 6     8770 1 1 g    11  ^would be 'most _c/\arefully {con^s\/idered#}# .   / 
11 6     8780 1 1 g    11  be^fore the !next - !v\ersion# .                   / 
11 6     8790 1 1 g    11  of the ^Armed 'Forces :{B\/ill} comes !/up# .      / 
11 6     8800 1 1 g    11  or ^even 'possibly be!f\ore that#                  / 
11 6     8810 1 1 g    11  to ^make [?]a !{s/\imilar} appli:c\ation# -        / 
11 6     8820 1 1 g    11  in res^pect . 'of . pro!c\/eedings#                / 
11 6     8830 1 1 g    11  in ^naval and [m@:lig] !military !c\ourt#          / 
11 6     8840 1 1 g    11  [?i] [?] ^it is !really int\/olerable# -           / 
11 6     8850 1 1 g    11  [m7 ?e6 h] "^has been in'tolerable in the p/ast# - / 
11 6     8860 1 1 g    11  that ^those a"!waiting tr/ial#                     / 
11 6     8870 1 2 g    11  ^could be . !kept "!waiting for !months after      / 
11 6     8870 1 1 g    11  :months after :m\onths#                            / 
11 6     8880 1 1 g    11  ^{Sc\otland} . !l\/\ong a'go#                      / 
11 6     8890 1 1 g    11  ^set a !l\imit# .                                  / 
11 6     8900 1 1 g    11  on ^time !given to . !pr\ose'cutions# -            / 
11 6     8910 1 1 g    11  [?ae ?ae] [?]and ^th/\ere'fore# .                  / 
11 6     8920 1 1 g    11  it`s "^v\/ery im'portant#                          / 
11 6     8930 1 2 g    12  to ^carry this . ^this re'form :{thr\ough} . _to   / 
11 6     8930 1 1 g    12  '[dhi:] _military f\ield# .                        / 
11 6     8940 1 1 g    11  ^after \all# -                                     / 
11 6     8950 1 1 g    11  ^m\any of 'these 'prosec/utions#                   / 
11 6     8960 1 1 g    11  re^sult in ac!qu/\ittals# -                        / 
11 6     8970 1 1 g    11  ^`tisn`t "!\/al'ways#                              / 
11 6     8980 1 2 g    11  that the po"^lice or [dhi:] :prose'cuting          / 
11 6     8980 1 1 g    11  auth/orities#                                      / 
11 6     8990 1 1 g    12  ^get - ^get the 'right !m\an#                      / 
11 6     9000 1 1 g    11  and ^th/\ere'fore#                                 / 
11 6     9010 1 1 g    11  in "^pr\inciple [?] it`s r/ight# -                 / 
11 6     9020 1 1 g    11  that ^what has been "!d/one#                       / 
11 6     9030 1 1 g    11  [?]in the ^civil f\/ield#                          / 
11 6     9040 1 1 g    11  should ^/\also# -                                  / 
11 6     9050 1 1 g    11  be ^s\/ought to be 'done# .                        / 
11 6     9060 1 1 g    11  and ac^c=ording'ly# -                              / 
11 6     9070 1 1 g    11  I ^hope my :noble fr/iend#                         / 
11 6     9080 1 1 g    11  ^won`t _press . !h\/is a'mendment# -               / 
11 6     9090 1 1 g    11  [@:] ^to a div\ision# - -                          / 
11 6     9100 1 1 a    11  my ^l/ords#                                        / 
11 6     9110 1 1 a    12  ^my - - [@:] ^{n\oble} . and :l\earned fr/iend#    / 
11 6     9120 1 1 a    11  [??] is ^r\ight#                                   / 
11 6     9130 1 1 a    12  ^I`m I`m ^gr\ateful to the M/inister# -            / 
11 6     9140 1 1 a    11  for ^pointing \out# -                              / 
11 6     9150 1 1 a    11  [@?] [s@] some ^very good r/easons# -              / 
11 6     9160 1 1 a    11  ^as to :wh/y# .                                    / 
11 6     9170 1 1 a    11  [?it?it?it?] ^it would be "!wr\ong# -              / 
11 6     9180 1 1 a    11  to ^c\/arry 'this#                                 / 
11 6     9190 1 1 a    11  ^not l/east# .                                     / 
11 6     9200 1 1 a    11  be^c/ause# -                                       / 
11 6     9210 1 1 a    11  ^if the 'purpose of :bringing this f\orward#       / 
11 6     9220 1 1 a    11  is to "^m=atch#                                    / 
11 6     9230 1 1 a    11  and ^m=arch on _all _fours _with# .                / 
11 6     9240 1 1 a    11  ci^v\/ilian . 'legis'lation#                       / 
11 6     9250 1 1 a    11  then we`ve ^[go6~@] prov/ide [dhi:]# .             / 
11 6     9260 1 2 a    11  ap^{pr\opriate} . :government ministers !w\ith the / 
11 6     9260 1 1 a    11  opport/unity . of re!fl\ecting#                    / 
11 6     9270 1 1 a    11  I`m ^also 'grateful t/o him# -                     / 
11 6     9280 1 1 a    11  for ^having s/aid#                                 / 
11 6     9290 1 1 a    11  ^[dh@t] [@:] !quite cl/early#                      / 
11 6     9300 1 2 a    11  per^haps at 'first :s/ight - {^having 'seen        / 
11 6     9300 1 1 a    11  !th/is#}#                                          / 
11 6     9310 1 1 a    11  that there are ^some 'aspects !/of it# .           / 
11 6     9320 1 2 a    11  that ^may com'mend - [?] [@?] them'selves to the   / 
11 6     9320 1 1 a    11  M\inister#                                         / 
11 6     9330 1 1 a    11  and ^those out!s\/ide the 'House I 'think#         / 
11 6     9340 1 1 a    11  will ^read . !wh\at the 'Minister has s/aid# .     / 
11 6     9350 1 1 a    11  [@?] and ^guide 'me _as 'to . ![?]\action#         / 
11 6     9360 1 1 a    11  ^which 'they . 'may !t\ake#                        / 
11 6     9370 1 2 a    11  but it`s ^certainly :my ad:vice to :{th\em} !w\ould/ 
11 6     9370 1 1 a    11  'be# .                                             / 
11 6     9380 1 2 a    11  ^[dh@t] you !don`t . 'look a :gift {h\orse} . in   / 
11 6     9380 1 1 a    11  the m\outh# -                                      / 
11 6     9390 1 1 a    12  ^and [dhi:] - not ^even the !h\alf 'promise#       / 
11 6     9400 1 1 a    11  that we`ve ^got from the :M=inister#               / 
11 6     9410 1 1 a    11  to ^look at this 'sympa:th\etically# .             / 
11 6     9420 1 2 a    11  ^is the !best 'offer I`m :going to 'get tod\/ay 'I / 
11 6     9420 1 1 a    11  'think# -                                          / 
11 6     9430 1 1 a    11  so I ^beg 'leave to with:draw my am\endment#       / 
11 6     9440 1 1 ?    11  ^h\ear {^h\ear#}#                                  / 
11 6     9450 1 2 b    11  your ^lordship 'pleasure the a:mendment _be        / 
11 6     9450 1 1 b    11  withdr/awn# .                                      / 
11 6     9460 1 1 b    11  a^mendment by :l/eave# .                           / 
11 6     9470 1 1 b    11  ^withdr\awn#                                       / 
11 6     9480 1 2 b    11  the ^question is that _Clause "!\Eight 'stand 'part/ 
11 6     9480 1 1 b    11  of the 'Bill#                                      / 
11 6     9490 1 1 b    11  as ^many of that o:pinion of you say con"!t/ent#   / 
11 6     9500 1 1 ?    11  ((con))^t=ent#                                     / 
11 6     9510 1 1 b    11  ^contrary n/ot con'tent#                           / 
11 6     9520 1 1 b    11  the con^tents h/ave it#                            / 
11 6     9530 1 2 b    11  the ^question is that _Clause !N/ine {^stand p/art / 
11 6     9530 1 1 b    11  of the 'Bill#}# -                                  / 
11 6     9540 1 1 b    11  as ^many of that o:pinion of you 'say con!!t/ent#  / 
11 6     9550 1 1 ?    11  ((con))^t=ent#                                     / 
11 6     9560 1 1 b    11  ^contrary n/ot con'tent#                           / 
11 6     9570 1 1 b    11  the con^tents h/ave it#                            / 
11 6     9580 1 2 b    11  the ^question is if !Clause !T\en 'stand 'part of  / 
11 6     9580 1 1 b    11  the 'Bill# -                                       / 
11 6     9590 1 1 b    11  as ^many of that o'pinion of you 'say con"!!t/ent# / 
11 6     9600 1 1 ?    11  ((con))^t=ent#                                     / 
11 6     9610 1 1 b    11  ^contrary n/ot con'tent# -                         / 
11 6     9620 1 1 b    11  [dh] con^tents h\ave it#                           / 
11 6     9630 1 1 b    11  a^mendment 'number [s] "s/even#                    / 
11 6     9640 1 1 b    11  [@?] [l] ^Lord {Gr/aham} of /Edmonton#             / 
11 6     9650 1 3 a    11  my ^lords I :beg 'leave to :move the a:mend'ment   / 
11 6     9650 1 2 a    11  [s] :standing _in . [?] :my 'name on the :\Order   / 
11 6     9650 1 1 a    11  'Paper#                                            / 
11 6     9660 1 2 a    12  and ^I [w?] I would "^simply - [?] re:m\ind the    / 
11 6     9660 1 1 a    12  'House#                                            / 
11 6     9670 1 1 a    11  and ^certain'ly - _Baroness !F\/aithful 'who# -    / 
11 6     9680 1 1 a    11  as "^\always#                                      / 
11 6     9690 1 1 a    11  ^on these m/atters#                                / 
11 6     9700 1 1 a    11  is ^in 'her pl\ace# -                              / 
11 6     9710 1 2 a    11  ^that . [@:] . !during the 'Criminal :J\/ustice    / 
11 6     9710 1 1 a    11  'Bill# -                                           / 
11 6     9720 1 2 a    11  on the ^twenty'second of 'June :nineteen           / 
11 6     9720 1 1 a    11  'eighty:tw\o# -                                    / 
11 6     9730 1 1 a    11  ^she _moved . an a"!m\endment# - .                 / 
11 6     9740 1 1 a    11  [@:] . at ^five o`"!cl\ock app/arently#            / 
11 6     9750 1 1 a    11  ac^cording to H/ansard# -                          / 
11 6     9760 1 1 a    11  [@:] ^Number F/our - {^which !s/aid#}# * - - *     / 
11 6     9770 1 1 ?    11  *^not in the m\/orning#*                           / 
11 6     9780 1 1(a    11  be^cause it ap:pears to the C/ourt# -              / 
11 6     9790 1 1 a    11  ^that !he is un!able 'or un:willing to re"sp\ond# -/ 
11 6     9800 1 1 a    11  to ^non_cus:todial "p\enalties#                    / 
11 6     9810 1 1 a    11  ^or be":c=ause#                                    / 
11 6     9820 1 1 a    11  [ei] cus^todial ":s\/entence#                      / 
11 6     9830 1 1 a    11  [~]is ^n\/ecessary# .                              / 
11 6     9840 1 1 a    11  for the pro"^tection of the ":p\ublic#             / 
11 6     9850 1 1 a    11  or be^cause the of'fence was "!so s/erious#        / 
11 6     9860 1 1 a    11  that a ^non . cus_todial :s\/entence# -            / 
11 6     9870 1 1 a    11  ^cannot be ":j\ustified# .                         / 
11 6     9880 1 1 a    11  and ^those 'who [@v] :read - with ":c\/are# -      / 
11 6     9890 1 1 a    11  ^my a!m\endment# -                                 / 
11 6     9900 1 1 a    11  [@n@v] . ^listened . with !\equal {^c\/are#}# .    / 
11 6     9910 1 2 a    11  to the a^mendment :moved 'by - the :noble 'Baroness/ 
11 6     9910 1 1 a    11  !F\aithful#                                        / 
11 6     9920 1 1 a    11  will ^s/ee - a"!g\ain# -                           / 
11 6     9930 1 1 a    11  ^this is an at"!t/empt# -                          / 
11 6     9940 1 2 a    11  to "^bring - '[dhi:] - - ma"!!ch\inery - {of       / 
11 6     9940 1 1 a    11  "^j\ustice#}#                                      / 
11 6     9950 1 1 a    11  ^ins\ide the f/orces# -                            / 
11 6     9960 1 1 a    11  the "^same - "as - :outs\ide# -                    / 
11 6     9970 1 1 a    11  the ^noble 'baro:n\/ess of 'course# .              / 
11 6     9980 1 1 a    11  ^will be de!l/\ighted#                             / 
11 6     9990 1 1 a    11  ^not 'only to :l/earn# - -                         / 
11 6    10000 1 1 a    11  that ^that has :now be:come . l/aw# -              / 
11 6    10010 1 1 a    11  but per^haps !n\/ot so de'lighted#                 / 
11 6    10020 1 2 a    11  to ^know that she !had to di!vide a_gainst - _her ./ 
11 6    10020 1 1 a    11  "!G\overnment# -                                   / 
11 6    10030 1 1 a    11  on ^th\at occ/asion# -                             / 
11 6    10040 1 1 a    11  and "^carried the !d\ay# -                         / 
11 6    10050 1 1 a    11  a^g\ainst the G/overnment# -                       / 
11 6    10060 1 2 a    11  ^by [ei] di!{v/ision} - 'of . one :h\/undred and   / 
11 6    10060 1 1 a    11  'two# -                                            / 
11 6    10070 1 1 a    11  ^to - !eighty!\one# -                              / 
11 6    10080 1 1 a    11  I ^v\/ery much 'hope#                              / 
11 6    10090 1 1 a    11  ^that [dhi:] . :G\overnment M/inister#             / 
11 6    10100 1 1 a    11  is ^not m/inded# -                                 / 
11 6    10110 1 2 a    11  to ^seek to {st/and} !not 'only in the :way of     / 
11 6    10110 1 1 a    11  'this a!m\/endment#                                / 
11 6    10120 1 1 a    11  but ^c/\ertainly [ai@] pre:s/ume#                  / 
11 6    10130 1 2 a    11  in the ^way 'of the :noble 'Baroness - !F\aithful# / 
11 6    10130 1 1 a    11  .                                                  / 
11 6    10140 1 1 a    11  be^cause . '[?]I :say with !\/utmost sin'cerity# . / 
11 6    10150 1 2 a    11  "^this - . [@:] is a ":matter 'which - _is [??]    / 
11 6    10150 1 1 a    11  !w\/idely 'under'stood#                            / 
11 6    10160 1 1 a    11  by ^many 'members - :in this H\ouse#               / 
11 6    10170 1 1 a    11  the at"^t/empt# -                                  / 
11 6    10180 1 2 a    11  [@?] in [@] the "^light of [dhi:] [mddh] the       / 
11 6    10180 1 1 a    11  "^prison 'popul/ation# -                           / 
11 6    10190 1 2 a    11  in the ^light of the "!current 'conside'rations    / 
11 6    10190 1 1 a    11  :which are :going \on#                             / 
11 6    10200 1 1 a    11  ^as to _[dhi:] - - "!l\/evel with 'which#          / 
11 6    10210 1 1 a    11  "^this c/ountry ap'pears#                          / 
11 6    10220 1 1 a    11  by com^parison to :/others# -                      / 
11 6    10230 1 1 a    11  t`^have !re'course to cus!t\odial s/entences# -    / 
11 6    10240 1 1 a    12  [@:] ^and [@:] ^all "!s\orts of alt/ernatives#     / 
11 6    10250 1 1 a    11  to cus^t\odial s/entence# -                        / 
11 6    10260 1 1 a    11  are ^being . [@:] "!f\ollowed# -                   / 
11 6    10270 1 1 a    11  [@?] ^in [dhi:] "!non'service :\area# .            / 
11 6    10280 1 1 a    11  and "^wh\/at we are 'saying "here# -               / 
11 6    10290 1 1 a    11  ^is . !{s\/urely} . it`s :not un:r\/easonable# .   / 
11 6    10300 1 1 a    11  to ^ask that the !!same - - - "_[?]\avenue# .      / 
11 6    10310 1 1 a    11  in ^f/act# .                                       / 
11 6    10320 1 1 a    11  my ^l/ords#                                        / 
11 6    10330 1 1 a    11  I`m ^saying the !same "w\ords# .                   / 
11 6    10340 1 1 a    11  ^should ap:p\ear# .                                / 
11 6    10350 1 1 a    11  [@:] [i] ^in the B\ill#                            / 
11 6    10360 1 1 a    11  [m6]^fact if 'I could !simply :s/ay# -             / 
11 6    10370 1 1 a    11  on ^page !one 'five !tw/o 'six#                    / 
11 6    10380 1 1 a    11  of the ^Criminal _Justice "[?]\Act# .              / 
11 6    10390 1 2 a    11  the a^mendment which the :noble 'baro'ness -       / 
11 6    10390 1 1 a    11  "!c/arried# -                                      / 
11 6    10400 1 1 a    11  is ^h/ere# -                                       / 
11 6    10410 1 1 a    11  ^and . 'in . !st/atute# -                          / 
11 6    10420 1 1 a    11  ^and in s\itu# -                                   / 
11 6    10430 1 1 a    11  and I ^v\/ery much 'hope# .                        / 
11 6    10440 1 2 a    11  that the ^{M=inister} . will at "!l\/east 'tell us#/ 
11 6    10440 1 1 a    11  .                                                  / 
11 6    10450 1 1 a    11  [dhaet] ^th\is is s/omething#                      / 
11 6    10460 1 1 a    11  that he`s pre^pared - !to l\ook at#                /